This is my first succession game. I'm really trying to learn the trick of the trade at Regent level, and guess a SG with some more experienced players would help.

Greek and Regent are fixed, I'd like the others to be random.

This will now be a 20K culture game, which is merged with the Wiz02 thread.

Oh, and this is vanilla Civ (which, of course, is why I started a new thread).

I'd like about 6 players:

1. Håkon
2. Wizard
3. Yndy
4. Dominix (can only play at weekends)
5. mad-bax
6. Smellincoffee (won't play for some time?)

Although the roster is now full anyone is welcome to join in for the first round. After that it will be fixed (although we need to move Dominix around so that he can play).

Time limit: 24 hours to say "picked up" (important! if you do not do this, we will skip you and go to the next player) and 48 hours to play the game and upload it here.

I can only play on the weekends due to a busy school year, so if you don't mind that then I would love to join!

I may join... depends on the other things, like what's the victory goal if there is one etc.

Wizard - well, really, I don't have a victory goal set yet. I'm usually more into the Cultural games, but if you want Conquest or anything like it that's OK with me.
Dominix - OK. I'll see how many players we get, but I'm sure we can accommodate you.

I'll join since we're going to play hattrick together, why not a SG as well.

I'm far above Regent (all the way to Deity actually) but I could give you and the other players some advice but also comment on your weed moves.

Ah, Yndy beat me to it. SmellinCoffee asked me to run a regent TDG. Looking at this game it would seem to be an ideal candidate. Also there is another regent SG starting with a cultural theme.

Maybe you would consider combining the two games, and Yndy and I could play and comment. So, not a true TDG, but maybe that would be better.

Yndy would have to agree of course. Two (or more) experienced players sharing the burden might work quite well.

If it sounds like a good idea, sign me up and put some space between Yndy and myself on the roster. :)

Thanks a lot! That's just what I was looking for. You're both signed up now. I posted in the Wiz02 thread to see if they want to combine the games...in that case we already have six players, if not we have four.

mad bax is nice to have you along in the game. I'm OK with everything you wrote. Actually I was going to suggest something similar myself.

It's not that easy to gather players for a Regent level game.

On a related matter we would need to be relatively strict with the time to play the game. I would suggest a 48 hours to play or ask for a specific time extension.

I'll just need to remember this is a v1.29 game.

Originally posted by mad-bax
Ah, Yndy beat me to it. SmellinCoffee asked me to run a regent TDG. Looking at this game it would seem to be an ideal candidate. Also there is another regent SG starting with a cultural theme.

Maybe you would consider combining the two games, and Yndy and I could play and comment. So, not a true TDG, but maybe that would be better.

Yndy would have to agree of course. Two (or more) experienced players sharing the burden might work quite well.

If it sounds like a good idea, sign me up and put some space between Yndy and myself on the roster. :)

You mean mine and Håkons SG's should be combined into one?

Hmm... Maybe this should target to a 100k win, as mine is targgeting to a 20k win...

But I'll sign up. :)

So, as said, I think, if it's ok with Håkon, that these two SG's should be combined into one. :) Shall we continue from my thread or this one?

That's perfectly OK with me, and actually what I suggested :). Seeing as this thread has four players and yours has two, it's probably best to ask Smellincoffee to go here - but that's just an opinion.

So, which thread shall we continue? Mine or this?

This thread.

Ok. I'll post a link in mine to tell we're playing on this thread. :)

Thanks. So now we obviously have a full roster, I'll start the game tomorrow. All victory conditions enabled, but we'll go for 20K culture. You're next after me on the line-up (cos Dominix can't play).

Sorry. Clicked quote instead of edit. May be deleted.

Ok. :) *starts warm-up*

This will be e great game, with m-b and Yndy participating! :D

Large map
Continents
60 % water
Roaming barbarians
Climate: random
Temperature: random
Age: random

King Alexander of the Greeks
10 rivals

All victories turned on.

No culturally linked start locations
No respawning of AI players
Preserve random seed is on.

Regent level

Our starting position:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Greece4000.JPG

I think that’s OK. Loads of food, two shield squares, plains that can give shields as well, commerce for science, and a mountain to the NE.

4000 BC: King Aradavros I builds the glorious city of Athina! 10,000 pioneers settle down near the Athinon Potani to form the grandest city on the face of the Earth. The Scythians, who lived nearby, are delighted to see the wonders of civilization, and tell us the secret of Pottery (hmmm…better than warriors) The starting position turned out to have a cattle directly to the NE as well. This can be utilised in 10 turns. For now, however, the 1st Worker division will road the square to the SE of Athina which has a shield. CB will be researched in 16 turns (if I remember rightly, a Temple built very early is good for culture, cos of bonus points, right?) Starts production of the 1st Hoplite division.

3800 BC: Worker finishes road. Road to cattle will now be built.

3500 BC: Athens grows in size and culture. 1st Hoplite division finished. Starting on 1st Settler division.

3400 BC: CB finished. Next is Writing (to Literature ---->GL). Athina changes production to Temple. Will finish in thirteen turns. Worker finishes road on cattle square. Goes back to SE shield square to mine it.

3000 BC: That’s it, really. Not an awful lot to tell. Temple will finish in 4 turns. After that you can build Settlers and Workers (important) and perhaps mine that square to the SW + some irrigation on the plain.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Greece3000.JPG

The save file (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Alexander_of_the_Greeks,_3000_BC.SAV)

Good luck with the game, Wizard.

List:

1. Wizard - your turn
2. Yndy - warm up
3?. Dominix (can only play at weekends)
4?. mad-bax
5?. Smellincoffee (won't play for some time?)
6. Håkon

Got it. I'll play it today, hopefully. Won't take very long, as it's in the beginning of the game. :)

Here you go:
3000BC: Move worker to Athens.

2950BC: Worker to BG W of Athens. Check everything, but there's nothing to fix. :)

2900BC Start mining the tile.

2850BC: Temple built. start settler.

2800BC: :sleep:

2750BC: :sleep:

2710BC: :sleep: still...

2670BC: :sleep:

2630BC: Mining finished. Start building road.

IBT: Athens builds settler troop #1. Start warrior.

2590BC: I'll let the next player choose where to settle the settler.

The save: >:D (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Håkon_2590_BC.SAV)<

Yndy - up next...

Then, I'm not sure. Dominix can't play, neither can smellincoffee, so it seems like mad-bax has to play.

So the list:
1. Yndy
2. mad-bax
3. Dominix ?
4. smellincoffee ??
5. Håkon
6. Wizard

Dominix (sorry, should have let you play the 2nd turn instead of Wizard) and smellincoffee are put in for sure if they post here again.

Sorry about this, it's a bit messy at the moment.

Just spotted the save under the :D and started playing. I'll post some comments on your moves later today.

Preturn: Move settler towards river in the West.


2510BC (2): Athens: Warrior -> Warrior. Warrior sent exploring the North. Game crashed three times when moving the Settler. This is very weird. Reboot. OK, I used PTW instead of Civ3.

2470BC (3): Barb wondering throught the jungle. Sparta founded; builds warrior. Worker sent to Irrigate the cow.

2430BC (4): Athens: Warrior -> Warrior. Warrior sent exploring the South.

2390BC (5): Hoplite kills barb near Athens. Research decreased to 90% as we ran out of money.

2350BC (6): Athens: Warrior -> Granary. Warrior sent to explore the West.

2310BC (7): Barb approaches Sparta. Worker sent to connect Athens and Sparta.

2270BC (8): Sparta: Warrior -> Worker. Warrior kills barb. Another barb closes in on Sparta. Barb camp spotted in the South

2230BC (9): Warrior kills barb.

2190BC (10): Warrior razes barb camp and gets 25g.

We need to build the Granary in Athens and then build Settlers there.
Sparta should have a warrior garrison but I wanted to take a look at the water SW of it.
Remember that our warriors will kill barbs most of the time if they attack but less often if they defend. Attack babs, don't let them attack you.

Click the smilies for the save: :p_:D_;) (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/H%e5kon_2190_BC.SAV)

Ok. How on earth we're gonna manage 20K win on this one, I don't know...but never mind.

Mad-bax - you're up.

Then:
I'm warming up (might take some time for me to finish - got training tonight + homework...)
Wizard
Yndy
Dominix ? (post when you can play, then you can jump straight in)
smellincoffee ?? (same applies to you)

Got it, but I won't be playing until this evening.
Is this going to be a 20K or 100k game? I don't mind either, but it will affect the way I play the turn.

I have a few days off this week due to some teacher work sessions, so I should be free to take up the game after mad-bax finishes with it.

Time for comments:
I have three points for Håkon and Wizard:
- not irrigating the cow; food is key in the early game
- lack of exploration; exploration is to be done as soon as possible
- excess defense in the beginning; two warriors could have replaced that Hoplite in any case.
You did good researching the Ceremonial Burial so that we could get an early temple. But I would have chosen Mysticism over Writing as Writing is hard to research at the beginning but becomes easier as we get 3-4 cities. For a 20K victory I would see us build the Oracle, The Great Library and the Hanging Gardens from the Ancient Age wonders.

Points noted.

So the roster will then be:

1. mad-bax (playing tonight)
2. Dominix
3. Håkon
4. Wizard
5. Yndy

Sorry, I thought of exploring with the hoplite, but forgot...:(

And, yes, I like those wonders too. :) Especially if we get the Oracle before 1000BC. :D Are we gonna make Athens our 20k city? I we are, then we'll lack the palace prebuild bonus... But we won't have any corruption/ waste... Oops, we will, but it'll be lesser anyway. Difficult choice...

Generally speaking, the ideal 20k city will be the second city, on a coast and river, with a variety of terrain types in its radius. It should be capable of producing enough food to support 20 citizens.

The ability to pre-build using a palace far outweighs other considerations. In our case, we need the capital to build settlers, hence Yndys direction to build a granary in it. We will also need a city to produce workers in order that we can join them to the 20k city to get the city to size 12 ASAP without the distraction of having to build a granary.

In the ancient age the 20K city needs to build temple, library, oracle, Great library, hanging gardens, forbidden palace and marketplace. Work out how many shields that is and you realise it is not do-able without at least one leader. So then we need cities with barracks to build offensive units for a very early war.
Once you consider that the two most productive cities will not contribute to unit production you will realise that a 20k objective is probably the most difficult victory condition to achieve.

EDIT: In my experience, getting the Oracle and GL will be fairly straightforward. Hanging Gardens will be difficult. Completion of the GL usually triggers a cascade to HG (and great wall to a lesser extent). So, realistically we need to either complete GL before the AI get monarchy, or get a leader.

Of course we don't have to build 3 AA wonders, but that would prolong the game.

I think it'll be ok, with you and Yndy here telling us how to play. :D

This isn't an "I can play" post, but Best Buy called and said my machine was working, so I may be able to actually join this game tonight.

Smellincoffee - should I put you in 3rd before me then? That means you'll probably play on Wednesday or Thursday.

mad-bax and Yndy - thanks a lot for the help :goodjob: For example, I have never bothered a lot with food in the early game :( No wonder I've never won anything above Warlord.

Just a warning, I wouldn't be able to play 'til late afternoon on both days.

Well, frankly I thought that Athens will be our 20K city but I remember I did the same mistake before. In this case, I think Sparta has a pretty good location even if not coastal and we should switch the worker to temple right away. Athens will build the Granary, a couple of workers to improve Sparta, another settler, and then peel off workers to join Sparta.

To avoid the problems with Monarchy being discovered by the other AI, we should not research Polytheism.

Agreed. Though since a temple has already gone into Athens I wouldn't object strongly to Athens being the 20K city as long as we jump the palace fairly early and put the FP in it immediately afterwards.

Spitting out settlers whilst trying to keep the population up and making all the shields we need for the other improvements on top of having no obvious pre-build, make a reasonable arguement for not using the capital for the 20K city IMO.

I was speaking more in general terms than this game specifically, but I will play with a view to developing Sparta as the 20K site if everyone agrees.

No objections here...frankly I was wondering how on earth we could manage to get all the shields in Athens - getting a mine on that mountain must take ages.

One comment on your player order.

The way you have it right now, Madbax will often follow Yndy in play order. It might be better if the two experts were farther apart. That way they can comment more on the smaller micro-management details they notice in the preturn. You don't really need to know a lot about micro-management to win regent; still it is good to start learning about them for when you advance higher.

Thanks Greebley - yes, I'll try to move mad-bax down the order for the next round (if that's OK with you, mad-bax?). That was in fact the plan, but because of not all players being available it turned out this way.

Hi Greebley :)

I agree, and once Dominix has finished his turn I would suggest the following play order...

1. SmellinCoffee
2. Hakon
3. Yndy
4. Wizard
5. Dominix
6. mad-bax

Wizard takes the hit I'm afraid. You OK with this Wiz?

2190BC: Pre-turn
Change Sparta from worker to temple

2150BC:
Continue exploration

2110BC:
Worker mines tile

2070BC:
Disperse barb camp for 25g

2030BC:
Warrior takes a detour to pop a hut
Slider adjusted. Writing due on inter-turn
Research set to Literature to make it possible to get Mysticism from the hut.

1990BC:
pop hut for barbs.
Research changed to Mysticism at 100% (-1gpt defecit, predicted 10 turns)

IBT:
Warrior survives barb attack and is promoted to elite.

Athens granary - worker. Tough call, but delaying the next settler by 2 turns to get a worker is necessary IMO.

1950BC:

Continued exploration.

1910BC:
Warrior kills barb, but is relined.

IBT:
Athens worker - settler

1870BC:
Redlined warrior ends up next to barb camp. He'll have to run away to survive.

1830BC:
Both workers start mines
Redlined warrior spots puple border.
Northern warrior spots hut

1790BC:
Western Warrior spots light blue borders
EOT

Here is our neighbourhood - roughly.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hkon1a.jpg

Here is the <<save>>. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hkon-1790BC.SAV)

Replying to this from my machine- it works! :)

got it!

1790BC: Everything looks perfectly fine, hit enter

1750BC: Move warrior onto hut and pop some barbs. Other two warriors head to the blue and purple border. Move slider down one, Mys still in 4 turns at -1gpt

IBT: warrior dies to barbs without killing a single one :(

1725BC: Athens Settler > Warrior, settler heading for the silks below Athens. We meet the Iro and Chinese. Iro have comm with Babs, Masonry, Wheel, WC and Mys plus 60g. Chinese have Masonry, Wheel, WC and 35g. Neither of them have Alphabet.

Alphabet to Iro for Comm with Babs and 60g
Alphabet to Babs for Masonry and 10g
Mys to Chinese for Wheel, WC and 13g

Research set to Lit at max, 30 turns at -2gpt. We have horses in Sparta that are not connected.

1700BC: Spot another hut, Sparta grows to size 3 so lux set temporary to 20%, moving hoplite in Athens to Sparta.

1675BC: Lux set back to 0. Athens warrior > settler, warrior stays in Athens for MP. Popping the hut gets us, not surprisingly, more barbs...

IBT: Our elite warrior dies on a mountain to barbs...

1650BC: nothing

1625BC: Thermopylae founded, set to worker. Sparta temple > granary for some growth. Iro have spices

1600BC: we dispose of a barb

1575BC: worker in Athens sent to connect up Therm

1550BC: Athens settler > warrior, settler sent NE.

1525BC: Sparta culture expansion, oh my, we got horsey barbs (2 civs have HBR now). Check up on our friends, Chinese have IW and Iro have HBW plus comm with England.

Comm with Chinese to Iro for Comm with England plus 37g
Comm with Babs and Masonry to England for Comm with Romans and 27g
Comm with Babs and Alphabet to Chinese for IW and 15g
Wheel and Masonry to Romans for Comm with Zulu and 10g
Comm with England and Babs to Zulu for HBW and 34g

Aye, that was a big turn!! I hope I did all that trading all right. There is an iron source north of Sparta.

Here is the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hkon-1525BC.SAV)

Originally posted by mad-bax
Hi Greebley :)

I agree, and once Dominix has finished his turn I would suggest the following play order...

1. SmellinCoffee
2. Hakon
3. Yndy
4. Wizard
5. Dominix
6. mad-bax

Wizard takes the hit I'm afraid. You OK with this Wiz?

I think I'll try to manage. :D You'll just have to always describe carefully what you do and why...;) Otherwise I'll mess up.

Dominix, do we have Mysticism or not? Your post is unclear.
What are we currently researching?

Sparta needs to be changed to Oracle not Granary.
Athens must build some workers to be merged to Sparta, but first we need the Dyes online.

The only comment I would make is that I personally would not have traded contacts freely. This increases tech rate, which we would like to be as slow a possible, probably throughout the game.

I don't believe you traded writing to anyone, and that's a good thing.

Trading Mysticism to the Chinese should really have waited until we had put half a dozen turns into the Oracle if we wanted to be very sure of getting it. In reality I can't see us being beaten to it though, so long as we switch to it now ;)

We have plenty of room for expansion, and maybe it would be a good idea for people to make a dotmap.

Originally posted by Yndy
Dominix, do we have Mysticism or not? Your post is unclear.
What are we currently researching?

Sparta needs to be changed to Oracle not Granary.
Athens must build some workers to be merged to Sparta, but first we need the Dyes online.

Sorry, this is my first real attempt at a succession game so I'm not used to writing up all my turns. Yes we did get Mysticism and we're currently research Lit and should get it in 16 or 17 turns (can't remember off the top of my head) researching at max. I set Sparta to granary because I wanted to get it to grow faster so it could build wonders quicker, but that shouldn't be a problem since we can switch over pretty easily.

I rarely run into a situation with so many trading options available at once, so sorry about trading around those contacts. We still have a monopoly on writing but I the Iro should get to it soon.

This is more or less a "got it!". I won't be able to play it for a few hours, though. (I have a couple of classes left before I'm free)

Now we'll just have try to get as many GL's as possible to get all of those wonders. . :)

So early war... I don't like it, but if needed, it's propably good...

Nice sig, Smellincoffee :)

Brilliant - now you'll warm up for the war, and on come I with bad luck and pathetic tactical skills. There is a reason why I never go to war without a tech lead and four times as many forces as an opponent...ah well, needs must.

I'll see if I can get mine done quickly - I've got training on Wednesday, but I'll try to fit it in.

Your skills can't be as pathetic as mine... I actually almost never even go to war... But I've learnt a lot in Wiz01 from gormdragan and Gengis Khan...:)

Example - I have two archers outside a town with two spearmen fortified. What do I do? Attack and get killed, of course.

Seems like our styles of playing are quite similar. I usually go to war in the endgame, when some fools have decided I am a threat. Then I take 20 turns to build up an army of Tanks and Modern Armors, and go and wreak general havoc all over the place...only possible on Warlord with a huge tech lead of course :p

That is just how I play. If trying to go to war early, I build a stack of 3-4 archers, and then go and lose them to the AI spears fotified in towns...:(

Funny - exactly same here - two minds, one thought ;) Of course, if I'm so lucky that I've researched Iron Working - but then I've forgotten to road the hill with Iron on it.

My first turn ever in a SG:


Inherited Turn:
I notice a barbarian horseman will reach Sparta's worker in two turns, so I remove the warrior from Athens to start on his merry way to defend the worker. Athens will produce a warrior on the next turn, so no harm done.

1500: Our warriors in Chinese and Iroquios territory continue scouting. Our Athenian warrior reaches the worker. The barbarian horseman can attack either the warrior or Sparta on the next turn. Worker near Thermopylae ordered to road the spices there. Athens begins work on the Oracle as a prebuild for the Great Library.

Interturn: the barbarian horseman sacrifices himself on the Spartan hoplite's pointy stick.

1475: The Spartan worker is done mining. I order him to road the tile. The warrior starts his trek back to Athens.Dominix had the settler on a go-to order, and he settles Corinth next to the sea. Warriors still exploring.

1450: Barbarian warrior approaches Sparta.

1425: He continues approaching and attacks, dying. A horsemen approach from the north and south.

Here I lost track of time, but the # of turns should be correct.

1325: I figured the northern horseman was going to attack Sparta. Once he died, I was planning to move our worker into the jungle so the horseman couldn't get him- but the barbarians didn't follow my plan! The northern horseman kills the worker :mad: ! I swich Spartan production to worker. :( Sorry about that...

Interturn: Both horsemen died trying to ransack Sparta.

1250: Worker done.Sparta will hit 4 in 4 turns, so I decide to build a wall there in the meantime. One of our intrepid explorers discovers a goody hut and 50 gold.

1225: Caught up in Sparta's affairs, I forget to monitor Athens and she riots. Corinth just got done with her second warrior, so I sent him to Athens to serve as MP. We also just got the spices hooked up. :)

1200: We know how to write novels down, so I switch Athen's production to Great Library. Due in 35 turns.

1150: Horseman approaches Sparta. (Maybe we should start calling the barbarians helots.....)



Grab the save here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hkon-1150BC.zip )

Barbarian circled.

Got the save, but the link does not work (found it in the uploads file). Think you've put one space too much or something. Not that it matters.

Will play either late today or tomorrow evening.

I haven't looked at the save, but...

Sparta is our 20K city and the GL needs to go in there.
Settlers from the capital
Culture in Sparta.
Next city should be a worker pump, I would suggest 3SE of Sparta if it's on a river. Check the commerce on the tile first. I can't tell from the screenshot.

I still think it would be a good idea for someone to post a dotmap.

Newbie question:

What's a dotmap?

It's a map of the area with dots indicating potential city sites.

Madbax- ooh, sorry. :( I read the thread last night, but my head was about to explode with sinus pressure, so I probably missed that remark..



BTW, I edited the file. The link should work now. I did have an extra space in there..

Had time to play tonight, so here is the turnlog.

1150 BC: Sparta changed from Settler to Great Library . Athens changed from Great Library to Library - finished next turn (yes, I know we need Settlers - wait for that...) Research set at maximum -4 gpt. Philosophy in 5 turns

Inter-turn: Barb Horseman moves next to Sparta. Library completed in Athens, Settlers started. Workers completed in Thermopylae. Warrior started. Workers completed in Corinth. Settlers started.

1125 BC: Worker moved from square SE of Sparta just in case. Worker of Thermopylae moved to Silks, starts building road. Warrior in SW rests.

Inter-turn: Horseman slain!

1100 BC: workers moved back to road the square SE of Sparta with the mine. Corinth Workers ordered to complete road. SW Warriors rest. NW Warriors meet Zulu Warriors. Contact, but no trade.

1075 BC: Road works started SE of Sparta. SW Warriors rest again. Research adjusted to 50% at +7gpt. Philosophy still in 1 turn.

Inter-turn: Research changed to Polytheism.

1050 BC: Research rate adjusted back to 100%. Mysticism in 12 turns. Exploration continues

Inter-turn: Athens Settler >> Settler.

1025 BC: Athens Settler settles SE of Sparta. Have to chop down some jungle, but otherwise there's loads of commerce and some shields. Warriors explore. 3rd Silk connected to our network. Workers sent to irrigate plains near Sparta.

1000 BC: Road near Sparta completed. Irrigation on plains NE next.

975 BC: Delphi founded. Starts to build warrior.

950 BC: SW Warriors attack and kill barbarians.

Inter-turn: Athens complete another Settler. Sparta riots!! Entertainers employed.

925 BC: Settler sent westward to the river. One warrior from Athens join. Iroquois have Literature (d*mn)... Loads of people are building the Oracle, no chance of that. We're en route for HG though... No luxuries apart from Silks. Increased luxury rate to 10 % and decreased research rate to 80 % (-3g, 6 turns)

900 BC: Yawn.

Inter-turn: Warrior completed in Thermopylae and fortified. Worker next - must chop down jungle.

875 BC: Warrior completed in Delphi.

850 BC: Warrior fortified. Next worker. Road from Corinth completed. Corinth production changed to Hoplite because Settler couldn't be produced early enough.

Inter-turn: Iroquois declared war!! Refused to give 29 gold tribute...our SW warrior killed.

825 BC: Settler built in Athens. Ordered to build city in NE. Research rate increased to 90 % to keep research steady. -5 gpt.

800 BC: Rome declared war too. MA. Help. Needed. Now.

775 BC: Hoplite completed in Corinth. Settler in 15 turns, growth in 14. Hoplite sent to Delphi as that city is likely to host 1st attack from Iroquois. Final turn - hooray :p. Not a good round. One city built. Two more awaits shortly. Two war declarations. GL will be built in 27 turns. Good news is that no other civ builds GL. Dyes in very north must be connected soon, to keep the Spartans happy (hey, they're supposed to be Spartan! They're supposed to eat simple stuff, not get luxuries ;)) Have luxury rate at 10 % but can't stay there for ever.

Yndy - you're up (OT - my team have travelled to Romania :))
Wizard - warm up
Dominix ?
mad-bax
Smellincoffee
Håkon

EDIT: Forgot to attach the save :crazyeye: Here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Håkon775BC.zip) it is

Mounted warriors and Legionaries. Sounds like fun. :p

Here I go. I must say this game goes pretty fast.

Change Athens from Hoplite to Settler. We don't need that many Hoplites.Change lux tax to 0%. Change Corinth to Worker. Change Great Library to Oracle :p. I don'tlike how we're doing but I'll play now and comment later.

750BC: Move Warrior/Settler Combo; Move the other Settler; Road near Sparta.

730BC: Delphi: Worker -> Barracks. Pharsalos founded: Build Worker. Just notice that the other settler was on GoTo and did not move where I wanted it to. Polythiesm discovered; it's time for a trading round.
Trade Polytheism to China for Code of Laws, Mathematics and 50gold.
Trade Polytheism to Zulu for MapMaking and 12gold.
Trade Babylon Writing and Mathematics for World Map.
Embassy with England for 52 gold. They have 32 turns to the Oracle.
Trade Zulu WM and Code of Laws for WM and 31g
Trade England Polytheism, Code of Laws and World Map for Alliance vs Iroquois, World Map and 20 gold.
Embassy with China for 63g. They have 13 turns to the Pyramids.
Trade China WM for WM plus 27gold.
Embassy with Babylon for 67gold. They have the Oracle due in 23 turns.
Trade Babylon MapMaking, Code of Laws and territory map for Alliance against Iroquois; Alliance against Romans and 15gold.
Switch Sparta back to Great Library. Send warrior to Spart for MP duty. Research Currency due in 14 turns at 100% science and -5gpt.

710BC China and Irroquois signed MA against England. Athens: Settler -> Barracks; Knossos founded: building Warrior.

690BC barb horse shows up; Hoplite sent to intercept.

670BC horsE impales in Hoplite. Corinth: Wroker -> Worker.

650bc Thermopylae: Worker -> Warrior; Argos founded to get the Iron at some point.

630BC Movement of troops.

610BC Knossos: Warrior -> Warrior. I lose a Hoplite attacking a barb. Oops!

590BC Zzzz

570BC Athens: Barracks -> Horseman?

Ending comment: I suggest we decrease research for Currency because at this point the AI can't trade us anything for it. I would wait at least until Construction shows up but I would even gamble and wait for another government to be available.

Click here for the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hk570BC.zip)

Yndy: Do you think Babylon will beat us to the Oracle even if we joined a couple of workers in to Sparta?

No, but given that England is so close to Pyramids and some other AIs started on those as well, I think the Oracle will be built in the cascade from Pyramids. I fear that the Great Library might be built the same turn or soon after. Since we are going to lose one of the two anyway I’d say, we better lose the Oracle. On a related issue, Sparta needed a library before the wonder, it’s culture is pathetic at the moment.

More comments:
Smellincoffee->Building a wall in Sparta was useless, I build walls in about 1% of the cities I ever build and only in case of a certain aggression from an AI.
Håkon->Why research Philosophy? Why not trade for Mysticism later?

Philosophy was on from the start, couldn't change it unless you wanted to lose a lot of research points.

About not trading, well, that was probably stupid. I thought it would lose us our tech lead. I see now that the turnlog is misleading - we did get Philosophy and I then changed to Polytheism (late night playing, OK?)

Can't post a dotmap, the save doesn't seem to be working...

Am I up?

I'll play at earliest in the evning, as I'm still in school now...

Man, this game is going on fast!:eek:

There seems to be some problems with the save. Like it’s not there. I’ll upload it again tonight and hope the server will work.

Yndy- it had to build something while I waited for it to grow and since I kept getting hassled by barbarians, I figured it couldn't do any harm. ;) Then again, I could've started work on the settler, but since I had to switch that over to worker, so much the better. :)

Or you could have built the Oracle. :)

Could've, but I was under the impression we were using Athens as a 20K site. Entirely my fault for not reading the thread again once my headache had subsided.

Link updated in the original post and also here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hk570BC.zip)

Umm, am I up? If I am, sorry, but I'll post tomorrow... Too late here now.

And I think I'll have to read those turnlogs again for better impression on what we're doing now...

Originally posted by mad-bax

I agree, and once Dominix has finished his turn I would suggest the following play order...

1. SmellinCoffee
2. Hakon
3. Yndy
4. Wizard
5. Dominix
6. mad-bax




Yep! :)

Ok, got it, I'll play and post tomorrow after reading those turnlogs. :)

Sorry, please skip me now, I'm too busy tonight to play...:(

So, Dominix or m-b, it's your turn. :)

ok got it

I can't play on this weekend, so if my turns comes up again, skip me...(on a trip)

How can it be, that always when I'm up, I'm in a very busy day or something...:mad:

570BC: Slide science down a little bit, Currency in 6 at +2gpt.

550BC: Take out barb camp above Argos. Argos warrior > warrior. Sparta grows, GL due in 11.

530BC: Slide slider to 3.7.0, Currency in 4 at 6gpt. Change production of horseman to settler in Athens. Our military is horrible but if Iro or Romans manage to come by with anything worth worrying about we could probably give a territory map for peace. Set Corinth to galley, see if we can find the other civs.

IBT: Babs sign peace with Rome...

490BC: Slider set to 5.5.0, Currency in 3 at 10gpt. Athens Settler > Warrior (to be upgraded to swordsman later on)

IBT: Beijing builds the Pyramids, French build the Colossus.

470BC: Grab hut near Intombe, get Construction.

450BC: Argos warrior > barracks. Thermopylae warrior > warrior. Warrior pops hut and gets barbs

IBT: Warrior defeats all three barbs, promotes to Elite. We get Currency, move into the Middle Ages and get Monotheism.

430BC: We can't get any of the middle age techs in a short amount of time so I set research Republic at 8.1.1 (move lux to 10% to prevent Sparta from rioting)

410BC: nothing

390BC: Delphi barracks > warrior

IBT: Persians build Oracle

370BC: Athens settler > hoplite. Mycenae founded, set to library.

IBT: Chinese declares war on Romans!!!

350BC: Sparta GL > library, Pharsalos worker > library.


Warrior in Zulu territory is heading towards the nearby hut. Alliance with England against Iro lasts only 1 more turn. Building GL cut all wonder building. Republic in 36 turns at 8.1.1. OUr military is horrible and we probably need to expand quite a bit more now. Sparta is at size 9 and lux needs to be at 10% to keep it from rioting. Ironically Athens is the #1 city.

Here is the link (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hk350BC.Sav)

Here is our empire, blue dot is where the settler is currently heading. Red dots are other possible locations (well what I think....)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/dotgreek01.jpg

Nice... Let's see if Yndy or m-b have something to say... I don't.

I have always been meaning to ask. When dealing with a jungle heavy region like the one below Delphi, if there is a city plop in the middle of the jungle, would it be better to first build roads to the city and then start cutting down the jungle, or cut down the jungle first and then build the roads on grassland?

Cut jungle first. the number of turns to complete both worker tasks is shorter if you cut the jungle first.

IMO it depends on the situation. If there are no tiles for a citizen to work that will give 2 food then clear the jungle first. The city will not grow at all with only jungle tiles workable and therefore will not need luxes. Building a road first then clearing the jungle takes more turns also.

However, if the town is important for other reasons such as being on your only source of rubber or controlling a choke point etc, then it is worth spending the extra worker turns, and delaying the cities growth to get the benefit of the resource or being able to move units quickly to and from the city.

In our case we need a road on the lux, period. So road the lux. When we come to clear the jungle we would clear the lux tiles last probably. This is because luxes are not sited on BG tiles. So clearing the other jungle tiles at least gives us a 1 in 3 chance of getting a BG.

It depends of what you want in the short/medium run just like m-b wrote.

Normally I build an access road to the city first. Then I set the city itself on a continuous worker build. For this you only need one two-food tile. I move each worker on one jungle tile and start cutting it. It takes forever but this has the lowest worker action cost.

Often I would not even do that, and instead move the workers to other locations to do other tasks, which are more efficient. Then later in the game, just before steam power I end up with a lot of workers with little tasks to do. I move one worker on each jungle tile and road the tile. Later, when my workers are done railroading they can move on the jungle tile and cut the jungle in the same turn.

Dominix, you did good. There's nothing to comment.

Well, mad-bax, I believe it is your turn...save us now :p

Then:
1. Smellincoffee
2. Håkon
3. Yndy
4. Wizard
5. Dominix

Doesn't look like this game is going too well, but we may always hope...

We'll just swap Oracle for Heroic Epic in the AA. The situation is retreivable, it's just not ideal. We were not disciplined enough about controlling AI tech rate and got bitten. The other point I would make (and was the reason I suggested a dot map) is that with one city on wonder building duty and another on settler building duty our production is rubbish. Our next two cities were then in the jungle and in the desert. That's not good.

At regent we could have delayed settling the jungle even though it has a lux and chosen a high shield site for the third city instead. The lux slider could have been used instead. I struggle to find a reason for settling the desert town. We need also to found cities on the other side of Sparta so that it is no longer in the front line.

I'll say a few more words after I've played and posted tonight.

Don't be too hasty, MB- my computer won't be working again until tomorrow. (See my problem in the Computer forum)

Thanks for the input on the jungle question. The Chinese deciding to declare war on the Romans really baffles me (they had a ROP, and although the ai breaking treaties is no new thing, I don't see any reason why they would break it in this case), but with that action I think we'll only need to worry about the Iro.

We don't really need to worry about the AI, this early and on Regent. Just to be sure I gave them a close target in the Babylonians. I doubt we'll see more than a couple of stray Iroquois units in this war. just remember to respect the alliances I've made and don't rush to make peace whenever they ask for it.

I'm sorry guys but the link is broke and I can't find a file with a similar name on the server. I will have to ask you to upload the file again please Dominix.

Really, sorry about that. Here's the link (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hk350BC.zip)

I'm back! :)

And no turns played? No prob, now I have more time to check on where we are going...:)

350BC: Pre-turn.
This is not good.
The worker one turn into clearing jungle on his own is put on the forrest. Chopping that will allow a warrior or hoplite immediately after a settler.
Delphi switched from warrior to settler.
Switch to single scientist research. Scientist is in Corinth.
China is a monster because it got the pyramids.

330BC:
Settler is on GOTO. Please don't do goto's that run outside your set of turns.
Nothing else happened. There is a lot of land to grab. But we are in a poor position to get it.

IBT:
Elizabeth wants to renew alliance with Iroquois. I decline.

310BC:
Hiawatha hasn't got horses yet. So no need to take a peace deal.
The Hoplite in Athens doesn't look very good value now, so I change to settler.
Thermopylae changed from warrior to worker. I'm not sure a farmer gamebit is such a good idea really, but we need towns and improved tiles yesterday.

IBT:
Sparta Library - Cathederal

290BC:
Buy worker off China for 30g. Downright exploitative, but I couldn't care less.
Barb horse appears near Mycaenae. I can't get a defender there soon enough. The warrior will have to cope.

IBT:

270BC:
Kill barb near Knossos
Pop hut for barbs (again :p )

IBT:
All barbs disposed of. 2 warriors upgraded to vet.
Athens settler - warrior
Thermopylae worker - warrior
Delphi settler - warrior

250BC:
Found Hereklaia - worker
China has Monarchy. It's too expensive ATM IMO, but Sparta is now on HG pre-build. Hopefully We'll get it from the GL.
Nothing much else happened.

IBT:
Zulus want to swap territory map. I can guess whats coming.
Learn Monarchy. I am very tempted to revolt. But I am willing to wait till the end of my turns to discuss it.
Iroquois are in monarchy already. China are in Anarchy. Iroquois are more of a threat now, but no peace yet.

230BC:
No news.

IBT:
Athens warrior - Settler
Found Ephesus - Warrior. I MM'd Sparta to allow Ephesus +2 food. HG will be one turn late because of this. So Veto if you like.

190BC:
Warrior/settler pair end up on tile next to barb horse. I was stupid and moved settler first.

IBT:
Delphi warrior - warrior
Knossos rax - warrior
Zulu start great wall.
Killed barb horse, but it leaves settler isolated

170BC:
No news

IBT:
Rome Declares on the English.

150BC:
Predictably a barb horse appears next to settler. Settler moves to only tile the horse cant reach in one turn.

I have left the barb/settler situation as best I can. If the barb goes after the settler you can place the settler and warrior on the same mountain tile. If the barb attacks the injured warrior, there is a vet warrior in range to take out the barb, then carry on to escort the settler. This settler is a kind of gambit up the east coast. Trying to see if we can get to the dyes. Otherwis it can found a high food site and pump workers.

Although I continued the republic research I don't agree with it. I would have gone for feudalism and Tzun Tsus, and I would have revolted into monarchy. At regent you tend to get lucky with lower numbers of turns of anarchy. Also it would have enebled us to buy a cathederal before starting HG.

We still need to make vet warriors, workers and settlers. Very little else. Nothing goes into Sparta except culture.

We can get a city for peace with the Iroquois. But it's not a city that would do us any good. The zulu should shoot their bolt soon. When we get knights I would suggest an alliance with China against them, or else an alliance with the Zulu against china for the pyramids. We could really do with that building.

Here is the >>save<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HK-150BC.SAV)

Ah, do we have the Great Library! Now that's nice! :)

Sounds pretty good to me. :)

Won't be able to get to it until tomorrow- if Hakon wants to go ahead, I'm okay with it. (Computer working every other day- Tuesday it should be working again.Right now I'm at collge.)

Got the save. I'll play tomorrow night.

Shame about your computer, Smellincoffee.

Aye, the worst part is that I have Conquests.

Tomorrow night? I could get it tomorrow morning...

That means roughly the same time, Smellincoffee. Remember, different time zones - but if you wanna play tomorrow, go ahead. I couldn't play today cos of training.

Oh- yeah. Sorry bout that. Once time zones leave the States, I don't bother to keep track. You can play it- I'm eager to return to Conquests.

Oh, must you brag about it? :mad: I'm still waiting for it, as it comes here waaay too late...:(

Originally posted by Wizard
Oh, must you brag about it? :mad: I'm still waiting for it, as it comes here waaay too late...:(


Well, I er...yes.


:lol:

Turnlog to 50 AD:

150 BC: Revolted. Will be back in 5 turns...OK.
Warrior produced in Delphi fortified.

IBT: Got the Republic from the GL, started Feudalism.

130 BC: Warrior attacks barb horseman and wins. Thessalonica built where it was. Warrior will go there. Starts worker. Sparta riots. Warrior near Knossos goes back into city and fortifies.

110 BC: Delphi: warr -> lib. Warr goes to Ephesus. Start to build some roads.

90 BC: Warrior fortified near dyes.

IBT: Do not sign a peace treaty with Iroquois. Barb horseman killed. Go to republic. Sliders set to 1-8-1 (-26g). Feudalism in 11 turns.

50 BC: Prod in Thessalonica changed to Settler.

30 BC: Snore.

10 BC: Ephesus changed to worker.

IBT: Athens: Settler -> Settler.
Thermopylae: Warrior -> Library.
Knossos: Warrior -> Library.
Ephesus: Worker -> Hoplite.

10 AD: Settler set to build city near dyes. Warrior in Thermopylae fortified.

IBT: Argos: Barr -> HMen.

30 AD: Sliders adjusted to 2-7-1. Feudalism still in 7 (-21g).

IBT: Extort 15 gold from Babs + TM exchange.

50 AD: Herakleia: Worker -> Settler.

Nothing really happened, thank some spirit. HG will come soon. Hope that we get the dyes in about 20 turns - 3 workers are there to build roads.

Please forgive any mistakes - this was done in 15 minutes due to a bad memory...Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hk-50AD.sav)

OK. So now we are in Republic we need to trigger our GA. A big run of wonders coming up, and the extra commerce and production will allow us to buy cultural buildings, and build wonders. The war will generate a leader or two hopefully. Then we are back on track. I favour a war with the Chinese, coupled with an MA with the Zulu.

So the plan is Tzus then Sistines then Leos. We won't get Leos unless we get lucky, but we will be able to cascade to our choice of Bachs, Copernicus or Newtons. Bachs is favourite.

Hakon, I don't think I'll comment on your turns again. It doesn't look like there is much (if anything I can teach you). I'll just ask you the usual questions I ask people in SG's, like...

What are the libraries for? I haven't opened the save yet and there may be a good reason. But we need vet units. Warriors and horses.

Very well played :thumbsup:

Originally posted by mad-bax
OK. So now we are in Republic we need to trigger our GA. A big run of wonders coming up, and the extra commerce and production will allow us to buy cultural buildings, and build wonders. The war will generate a leader or two hopefully. Then we are back on track. I favour a war with the Chinese, coupled with an MA with the Zulu.

So the plan is Tzus then Sistines then Leos. We won't get Leos unless we get lucky, but we will be able to cascade to our choice of Bachs, Copernicus or Newtons. Bachs is favourite.

Hakon, I don't think I'll comment on your turns again. It doesn't look like there is much (if anything I can teach you). I'll just ask you the usual questions I ask people in SG's, like...

What are the libraries for? I haven't opened the save yet and there may be a good reason. But we need vet units. Warriors and horses.

Very well played :thumbsup:

Thank you - was a pretty easy turn to do :D Libraries are for science. I always prefer to be as far ahead in science as possible - this gives a possibility of many new wonders and loads of money. Argos built a barracks and is starting to churn out those Horsemen. It's gonna take time, but it's worth it.

So, Smellincoffee, does your computer work? Otherwise we'll skip you and move on to Yndy.

NIce work there. :goodjob:

It'll work tomorrow, aye. :) If Yndy doesn't get it by tomorrow, I can grab it and play it early afternoon, depending on if I have lab. (If lab- 2:00 pm CST, if not- 12 PM cst)

You're not going to get away that easy Smellincoffee ;).
You're gonna play, and I'm gonna whip you for your silly moves ;).

I'll check back tomorrow.

Okay then, I'll post as soon as I can... :lol:

In the interim, I won two more Conquests. That's 3/9 so far. :)

Oh, must you brag about it? I'm still waiting for it to arrive into Europe, so don't tell me any details...;)

Oh, just heard that it was pushed back to 19.th in ROW...:(

Originally posted by Smellincoffee

Originally posted by Wizard

Oh, must you brag about it? I'm still waiting for it, as it comes here waaay too late...


Well, I er...yes.


:lol:





:lol:

Play and stop :lol:ing ;)

:( Skip me. Computer still isn't working, even though today is supposed to be it's "working" day. :( I think I'm going to find a small bank to rob...

I suppose this is the penalty for bragging about Conquests ;)

OK, Yndy, you're up...this game is becoming weirder by the minute. :confused:

I have no regrets. ;)

And my harebrained decision to research philosophy on my turn would've been rewarded had I been playing Conquests. ;)

Got it and will play tonight.

Hey Wizard, do you mind if I play before you this time around? If Yndy finishes anytime within a day, timing wise it will be perfect for me to play.

Pre-turn
Thermopylae jumps to my attention as soon as I opened the save. I just wrote about what a city in the jungle should build. Library switched to Worker. Knossos also builds a library but its lands are not improved. Switch to worker. Pharsalos switched to Settler. I remember this is vanilla civ 3 when I see the MedInf is not at Feudalism. Move to vanilla civ. Do all the above. TRade maps around for a total of 42 gold.

Smoke the weed of peace with Hiawatha. He's so stunned that he gives me Allegheny in the deal. Caesar pays 160 gold for peace. Negative war weariness ends and Sparta is about to revolt. I raise lux tax for an extra 10 gold per turn and now everyone is happy. I get Hanging Gardens to be completed in 9 turns. MM for more commerce. Feudalism now due in 5 at -40
per turn.

70AD (1) Corinth: Galley -> Worker; Pharsalos: Settler -> Worker.

90AD (2) Athens: Settler -> Marketplace; Knossos: worker -> Library. Warrior kills barb. Spot 2 Zulu units coming my way and send some troops over there just in case. They are probably hunting barbs. I spot an indian city west of Rome. Nobody has contact with them but they must be hopelessly behind.

110AD (3) Thermopylae: Worker-> Galley. Warrior dies trying to raze a barb camp. Dispatch a new warrior. Join a worker in
Sparta but no change for Hanging Gardens.

130AD (4) Rome signs peace with China.

150AD (5) Corinth: Worker -> Harbor. Warrior razes camp and gets 25 gold. Rhodes founded in the middle of nowhere. The position is pretty good but there's no 2 food tile until it expands. I'm gonna rush a library to fix that. I call it a weed move on my behalf. Eretria founded on the island SE of Termopylae. Also no 2 food tile but this time I did not see a forest. We're short 7 beakers from Feudalism. I set science to 10%.

170AD (6) Discover Feudalism -> Theology in 12 @ 80% science. Attack barb camp and lose again. Rush library in Rhodes.

190AD (7) England signs peace with China. Delphi: Library -> Worker (can't grow due to jungle and neighboring cities).

Rhodes: Library -> Warrior. Massive barbarian uprisings as several nations enter the Medieval Age. Troy founded by the dyes. Spend 120 to rush a Hoplite in Rhodes. Theology now due in 10 turns.

210AD (8) Iroquois and England sign peace treaty. Pharsalos: Worker -> Library; Argos: Horseman -> Settler. Ephesus:

Hoplite -> worker; Rhodes: Hoplite -> Walls ?. 5 barbarian horsemen are at the gates of Rhodes.

230AD (9) The 5 barbs attack Rhodes but we defend it successfully. The Hoplite is now Elite. Sparta builds the Hanging
Gardens. Change to Cathedral. 8 barbs appear West of Mycenae. 5 Warriors and a horseman now garrison the city and a hoplite and another warrior are on the way. Trade ROP with Babylon for 11g and their world map.

250AD (10) Delphi: Worker -> Worker; Rhodes expands and changes to worker. Horseman kills one barb. 4 Warriors kill 4 barbs. 2 warriors die. Mycenae will hold next turn. Lux tax increased to 20% to avoid revolt in Sparta.
Save is here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hk-250AD.zip)
Edit: Sorry about the way the text appears

Ok, got it. :)

Nice playing. :thumbsup:

Anything I should know before playing, like what to do etc.?

Hmm...yes. Do you mind if Dominix plays before you? I know you've waited for ages, but if he doesn't play now then he has to wait for a whole week (I think)

No prob. :)

I'll have a little more time to think on my strategy, then...(what strategy?)

So line-up:

1. Dominix
2. Wizard
3. mad-bax
4. Smellincoffee
5. Håkon
6. Yndy

250AD: Change sliders to 3.5.2, Theology in 10 at -10gpt. Change Herakleia to worker. Change Eretria to worker.

270AD (1): Herakleia worker > settler. Ephesus worker > warrior. Iro are really giving the babs a pounding.

280AD (2): Delphi worker > worker. Sell WM around for 4g. Definitely don't like the way the Chinese are approaching Rhodes. Move Elite hoplite onto workers building road.

290AD (3): Troy worker > library. Athens marketplace > horseman. Argos settler > horseman. Settler sent to spot NW of Herakleia where horses and game are. Oh lord, we got quite a Chinese force outside our borders, and they don't look like they're here to just say hello. Move workers building road to Rhodes into Rhodes, as well as the hoplite guarding it. Change Pharsalos to hoplite and rush it. Change Rhodes to hoplite. Move some forces in Mycenae to Pharsalos. Kill barb camp and get 25g. The Chinese have 3 reg horseman, 2 reg archers and a warrior bearing down on us.

IBT: Babs sign a MA with Rome against England.

300AD (4): Dyes connected, lower lux to 10%. Theology in 4 at +4gpt. More Chinese incoming, now we have 4 horseman (one vet), 6 archers and a warrior. Change Rhodes to hoplite and rush it. Call up Mao, give him 2gpt for 29g. Then ask him to remove forces, and he declares war! (wow, how surprising...) Vet horse in Pharsalos pops out and kills one regular horse. Moving workers in Rhodes outta here.

IBT: Rome and England sign peace. Archer dies attacking elite hoplite and now we are in our golden age. Reg horse dies attacking hoplite in Pharsalos and it promotes to vet.

310AD (5): Mycenae library > horseman, Sparta cathedral > Suns (to be changed to Sistines), Delphi worker > horeseman, Ephesus warrior > library. Looks like the Chinese are off to take Rhodes, move a vet warrior from Pharsalos onto a mountain. Move reg hoplite, vet horseman and reg warrior onto the forest, hopefully they'll distract some Chinese. Set sliders to 5.5.0, Theology in 2 at 46gpt.

IBT: two archers and one warrior die attacking Rhodes, reg hoplite promotes. Chinese horse kills warrior on mountains and promotes.

320AD (6): Therm galley > library. Galley sent up to explore up. Change Rhodes to hoplite and rush. Change Pharsalos to horse. Move warrior/hoplite/horse group towards Rhodes. Thessalonica settler > settler. Settler goes to iron source NE of it.

IBT: Chinese horse retreats. Kill a horse and 3 archers. Elite horse dies attacking our vet horse coming towards Pharsalos.

330AD (7): Athens horse > horse. Get Theo, Education in 9 at 4gpt. Looks like the Chinese attack is gassing out. Move vet hoplite onto mountain. Change Pharsalos to library. Move retreating workers back towards Rhodes.

340AD (8): Knossos library > aqueduct. Send warriors in Mycenae on a pillaging mission (take out the iron that will be online once Tsingtao's borders expand. Lose 2 warriors trying to take out archer on mountain, and then kill it with vet horseman. MM Sparta, 0 growth but 31 shields after corruption. Sistine in 17. Zulu settle on horse spot :(.

350AD (9): Corinth harbor > library, Athens horse > horse, Allegany hoplite > library. Sell WM around for 16g.

360AD (10): Argos horse > library, Herakleia settler > library. Change Thessalonica to library. Find Marathon, set to library. Find Halicarnassus and set to harbor.

Whoa, more action than I expected! Chinese still refuse to meet us. Education in 5 at +5gpt. Sistines in 15. We got quite a defensive force in Rhodes so we should be safe from any further attacks. Chinese offensive definitely looks gassed though.

Here is the link (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hk360AD.zip).

Got it.

Anything I should remember?

From reading this we haven't signed and MA with anyone against the Chinese. Wizard if I were you I would get an MA with the Zulu against the Chinese at least.

Now the war is on we should try to get the Pyaramid city (can't remember which it is) and also try to capture some workers.

Try and generate some elite horses and we'll have a stab at a leader, then army, then Heroic Epic.

Whoops, forgot to play yesterday...:blush:

I'll play it now.

Computer totally out, I think. It's taking two and three day breaks between working. :( I don't care what my parents say, I'm calling Best Buy yet again..

Aww, sorry to hear that, Smellin'...:(

Here's the one- day- late turnlog:

Preturn: Check everything to get a look on where we are going, the long gap between this and the save I played before is a little too long...:( Sign embassy with the Zulu in order to get MA against the Chinese. They are building the Great Wall in Zimbabwe, due in 7 turns! They want Monotheism for MA... I think it's better to give it than Feudalism. Sign MA against China for Monotheism, we get WM + 1 gold...

IBT: Iroquis Swords pass by Allegheny. Athens builds Horse, starts horse. Delphi Horse > horse.

370AD: The Military advisor says our troops are weak compared to the Chinese...:( But let them see, we'll :hammer: them! Set settler to go to free spot between Zulu cities. Why don't we have any swords? Hmm... no iron...? Why haven't we upgraded our warriors? Well, I'm not gonna because there must be some good reason...

IBT: Iroquois capture Akkad (Babylon). Two Chinese spears move along our border... Pharsalos library > horsey.

380AD: :sleep:

IBT: Athens horse > horse. Ephesus library > horse.

390AD: Our vet horse retreats when attacking Chinese reg spear near Mycenae. Our elite warrior kills Chinese horse north of Tientsin on a mountain.

IBT: Our 1- hp horse wins Chinese reg spear near Mycenae. Corinth library > horse. Eretria worker, library.

400AD: our vet horse kills Chinese spear near Mycenae. Our vet horse kills Archer near Chendu. Our vet horse is killed by spear in Chendu.

IBT: We research Education. Start Engineering in order to get Invention > Leos. Riots in Athens! :eek: But nothing has changed in the town since last turn...? Argh, somebody slap me! I forgot WW... Now also Sparta is rioting... So is Pharsalos. Troy builds library > harbor. Engineering in 6 at -1gpt.

410AD: Horse attacks reg spear in Chengdu, wins. Horse kills anothr spear in Chendu. Vet horse kills reg spear in Tientsin. Our elite warrior attacks spear in Tientsin, is killed but spear is down to 1 hp. Another elite warrior kills it, and captures the town with 2 workers. :)

IBT: Chinese archers are engaging our horses near Chengdu. Athens horse, horse. Delphi horse > horse. Argos library, temple.

420AD: Kill archer in Chengdu, capture the city. There are 4 (1) Chinese Archers coming to he ity, will attack in 2 turns...

IBT: England and Babylon sign peace. Chinese archers turn around in fear as they see our great horsemen in Chengdu...:rolleyes: Corinth horse > horse. Ephesus horse > horse. Zimbabwe builds the Great Wall...

430AD: zzZ

IBT: Our horse retreats from Chinese archer near Tsingtao. Shaka wants to trade Feudalism from us, but I refuse. Athens horse > horse. Thermopylae library, temple. Our sucide galley is lost in treacherous waters W of Babylonia, where I found some sea in the middle of the ocean.

440AD: Our horse kills Chinese arhcer near Tsingtao. Same again. Build Pergamon NW of Troy, near game. Our reg hoplite kills archer near Tsintao, and promotes.

IBT: Our horse is killed by Chinese horse near Tsingtao. Hammurabi wants RoP, I trade it to him for 46 gp & 1 gpt, we give WM. Pharsalos horse > horse. Thessalonica library, horse.

450AD: Our horse kills Chinese horse near Tsingtao, but is taken to 1 hp.

IBT: Athens horse > horse. Herakleia library > horse.

460AD: :sleep:, getting ready for an assault agains Tsingtao.

Summary:

We have 22 workers,
13 horses,
10 warriors (?)
7 hoplites.

Sparta will build sistine in 7.
Engineering in 1.


The save: :hammer: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hakon_460_AD.SAV)

Sorry for being late to post guys. I haven't downloaded the save yet, but I will play tonight.

I'll try to post some general comments on the game too.

Sorry about not connecting up the iron. With our GA activated by the war, I was planning on signing peace relatively early with the Chinese so that we could use this period of time to build some infrastructure (like libraries and maybe a FP).

Another SG I am in took twice as long to complete as I expected - and I still haven't finished, and I owe another game a turn from a few days ago. I won't be able to play realistically till Thursday.

So I'm sorry but I'll have to skip, unless you want to wait that long.

OK, so mad-bax's game won't work, Smellincoffee's computer is out - back with me again? OK, I'll see what I can do.

Do we have iron yet? I think the best thing now is to grind out veteran horsemen (cheap) until we get 1, maybe 2 leaders, then get a peace treaty. Maybe build some Barracks...

It's not that my game won't work. It works fine. If you can wait till Thursday (i.e. tomorrow) then I'll play, otherwise you can swap with me and I'll play after you this time round, or you can skip me completely for this rotation. I just didn't want to have you hanging around waiting for me.

It's just unfortunate that I got up in all my SG's on the same day and one of them took over 4 hours to play 8 turns.

So it's up to you.

Maybe you should try to participate to fewer SG's at the same time? ;)

It's ok with me either way, so you choose, Håkon. :)

Well, when I joined this one I expected 2 others to be completed by now. So temporarily I am at risk of being up in more SG's than I can play in 48hrs.

Ok, I see.:)

I can wait till Thursday, no problem there - having homework to do + watching Norway v Spain at football, so I won't have too much time

Europe plays football? Thought that was mostly just popular in America.


Oh....you meant soccer?! :lol:

---------------------

I emailed the network administrator at my college about my computer problem. He's said to know quite a bit about hardware.

Originally posted by Smellincoffee
Europe plays football? Thought that was mostly just popular in America.


Europe plays football, also called association football (soccer). US play helmetball, alternatively called rugby for nancies ;)


I emailed the network administrator at my college about my computer problem. He's said to know quite a bit about hardware.

Sounds good :) Hope to have you back soon.

Even our girls don't play rugby with all that gear on, and we run for 40 minutes at a time instead of 14 seconds or less.

Umm... Mad- Bax, what is your time zone?

Just inerested because it's good to know approximately the time you will play at...

GMT. I will start playing at 8pm, finish playing at 10pm and post at 10.30pm :)

Now I am at work, then I go home, get changed, have my dinner, bath the children, put children to bed, read them a story... then I can play civ, :)

Read `em a few civlopedia entries. Then the game will have been already loaded. :lol:

Uploads server is down ATM. I'll keep trying.....

If you are around Wizard, you could zip the save and attach it to a post if you like to bypass the uploads server.

Cheers.

It is 10PM and the uploads server is still down, so I am giving up for today.

Now it should work... At least I managed to get a save dl:d in a other SG... I'll check my link.

Yes, it sure does work. You should be able to dl it now. :)

OK. I downloaded it first thing this morning and e-mailed it home. Will play tonight - finally. :sad:

Well, better late than never I suppose....

460AD: Pre-turn.
Reduced science slider to 10%. Engineering still in 1 turn.
Changed Herekleia from temple to horse.
I'm a bit concerned about the zulu sword on the hill NW of undefended Pergammon, and I can't get a defender there. I consider changeing to Hoplite and rushing, but don't. I hope that doesn't come back to haunt me.

Trade Shaka Theology for 2 workers, 42g and contacts with Indians, Germans and Persians. Shakas land are great, but completly unimproved. This will keep it that way for a while.

Trade Theology to Babylon for WM +15gpt + 47g. I know this is cheap, but we want the money towards our own research.

The main purpose of this trade was to get the workers off the zulu. It will help when I declare war on them in a few turns. Also getting th contacts is important so I can do this...

Declare war on Germany.
Establish Embassy with India
Establish Embassy with Persia
Sign Straight MA with India against Germany
MA against Germany + Spices from Persia for silks.
Sistine now in 6 turns.

Pharsalos needs a market badly, so it gets one.
Decide to starve Tientsin back from pop two to one.

IBT:
Learn Engineering - research invention in 6 turns for Leos.
Corinth horse - horse
Delphi horse - horse
Argos horse - horse
Ephesus horse - horse

470AD:
Tsingtao
Vet horse vs reg spear wins and promotes.
vet horse vs reg spear wins taking city - Library

IBT:
Athens horse - University. At 23spt I don't want to build horses, and and I don't want to build hoplites either.
Mycenae duct - market. No rax and I'm hoping for a leader for Sin Tzus.

Marathon Library - worker.

480AD:
Shanghai.
vet horse vs reg spear dies
vet horse vs reg spear wins
Elite horse vs redlined spear wins taking city - Library

IBT:
Iroquois and Babylon sign peace.
Babylon starts Sistines

490AD:
No attacks possible, not enough movement.MAcao has gems, is on a hill and is defended by vets. It'll be expensive to take.

IBT:
Chinese request an audience. No not yet. Gems and Pyramids first.
2 archers pop out of Beijing to attack horses. Both die. It won't save them.
knossos horse - horse

500AD:
Macao
Vet horse vs vet spear dies
vet horse vs reg spear dies
reg horse vs vet spear wins
reg horse vs reg spear wins and takes city - library

Thought about having a go at Beijing, but with only 4 3/4 horses in position it probably woud have failed.

IBT:
Our golden age ends.
Argos horse - horse
Thessalonica horse - horse
Eritrea library - harbour
Marathon worker - hoplite

510AD:
Adjustments made to production and MMing etc to cater for end of GA. Sistines now in 3 as is Invention.

IBT:
Delphi horse - horse (squeeze one more in b4 market)
Herakleia horse - hoplite
Ephesus horse - rax

Zulu start sun tzu

520AD:
Beijing (at last)
vet horse vs reg spear wins
reg horse vs reg spear retreats
3/4 horse vs reg spear dies
3/4 horse vs reg spear wins and promotes
3/4 horse vs reg spear retreats
3/4 horse vs reg spear retreats
Elite horse vs reg spear wins generating leader. (5 turns from Sparta :( )

That didn't go as well as I expected, so I left a 2HP vet spear in the city. This is a big no no as it will be 4HP next turn.

IBT:
The Romans start Sun Tzus, as do the Persians.

530AD:
Beijing Reprise.
vet horse vs vet spear dies.
vet horse vs vet spear wins, promotes and captures city.

Their palace jumps to Canton. I'll continue this war with the few horses I have left as I don't want their palace anywhere near Beijing.

First level war weariness kicks in so lux up to 10%
Science adjusted down for Invention next turn.
Learn invention, research gunpowder. I want chivalry, but the AI will get me that.

Complete Sistine - start uni, which I will buy when the leader gets to town. I think we should use the leader for Tzus b4 the AI get invention, and then just build Leos. The next leader will probably build the FP somewhere in zululand.

540AD:
Decide to risk a suicide galley to find Joan.
Iron is connected.

IBT:
Corinth horse - market

550AD:
Canton.
Reg horse vs reg spear dies
reg horse vs reg spear wins
*Elite horse vs reg spear dies
Elite horse ves reg spear wins and takes city - Library
My kill ratio is really crap. Wonder if it's because we have so many reg troops?

IBT:
Athens UNI - horse. At 15spt this city is a perfect horse pump.
the galley sinks.

560AD:
Hurry Spartas UNI.
HAve assembled some horses in Marathon and Pergamon as the deal with Shaka ends next turn.

IBT:
Shaka wants to renew alliance with against Chinese. I decline.
Sparta Uni - Sun Tzus (Leader in place but not used). Delphi horse - horse (oh go on. Just one more).

Herakleia Hoplite - settler. Can be rushed next turn to prevent hiring a specialist if you like.

570AD
Put Hoplite on goto Marathon. (2 turns).
Tidied up after myself.

We are still at war with China. Continuing the war is IMO a waste of time. Too difficult. I would reset war weariness and go after Shaka, but it was so near the end of my turns I thought we could discuss it first.

Also up for discussion is the leader. Sun Tzus, army (Heroic Epic), FP or Leos. I vote Sun Tzus, especially since we could go after Shaka next.

This is what we are up against.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hkon1b.jpg

Go :slay: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HKON-570AD.SAV) Shaka

I say go for Sun Tzus, cut off the AI production on wonders. Also, it seems like a lot of our core cities are still lacking some rax so Tzus should take care of that problem.

Yes, it would be best > we would get vet troops > easier elites > more leaders > an army > Heroic Epic. :D Easy, isn't it? ;)

:lol:I was just going to ask if you had a reason to not post the save when I realised you used the smilie link....:rolleyes:

Downloading save now. So I should go for Sun Tzu's and then kill Shaka, is that so? (as Smellin's computer is still out)

Will probably play tonight...

Yes. I think Tzus will help in killing Shaka and it will mean being able to get a head start on Leos. So Rush Tzus then build Leos in Sparta. Our next leader should probably put a new palace somewhere in Zululand so long as we get time to build the FP in Sparta. The terrain is good, though lacking in Rivers.

Keep an eye out for the AI getting Chivalry. You might want to make peace with the Chinese. Their last cities are difficult to get to at the moment. I would get as much off them as you can since if we re-declare within 20 turns we get all the war weariness back, so it wouldn't be a good idea.

Yes, the China war is no use at the moment, we would mainly loose units from the Zulu offensive force.

Turnlog:

Inherited turn (570 AD): Get a worker and Hangchow from China in return for peace.

IBT: Athens horse -> sword. Knossos horse -> sword. Tientsin hoplite -> worker. Argos horse -> sword. Rhodes CH -> worker.

1 (580 AD): Horseman sent to Hangchow to defend. Horseman from Knossos sent to Pergamon. Rush Sun Tzu. Sliders adjusted to 3.1.6 - Gunpowder in one less turn.

IBT: Sparta ST -> Leo.

2 (590 AD): Not much happening.

IBT: Marathon hoplite -> horse. Trade TMs to keep Hammurabi happy. Get a gold piece. Zulu whip the Chinese off the map. Athens Sword -> sword. Chengdu hoplite -> library. Rhodes worker -> sword.

3 (600 AD): Change production in all former Chinese towns from library -> CH - they're so corrupt, CH actually has the same effect as a library. Move some units.

IBT: Troy library -> sword.

4 (610 AD): Adjust sliders again to earn more money. GP still in 1 turn.

IBT: Gunpowder -> Astronomy. Athens sword -> sword. Delphi horse -> sword. Pharsalos MP -> sword.

5 (620 AD): More slider adjustment. Move units to Pergamon.

IBT: Hangchow runs riot! Give them a clown to keep happy (no use changing lux). Argos horse -> horse. Herakleia settler -> horse. Pergamon library -> sword.

6 (630 AD): Move settler near cattle on plains. Take a hoplite from Rhodes.

IBT: Athens sword -> horse.

7 (640 AD): Mine a lot. Otherwise nothing.

IBT: Give Hammurabi ROP to keep him happy, take his map (has no gold). Trade WMs with Rome. Knossos horse -> sword. Ephesus harbor -> horse. Marathon horse -> sword.

8 (650 AD): Move some workers.

IBT: Athens horse -> horse. Tientsin worker -> CH.

9 (660 AD): Move more workers. Gather troops at Pergamon. Slider adjusted to earn money (4.5.1, +8, 4t).

IBT: Persians come and renegotiate alliance v Germans. Accept and take 1 gold piece. Also trade Spices for Silks. Same with India, 2 gold and WM. Beijing and Allegheny run riot (sorry, can't keep control of everything). Thermopylae harbor -> horse. Delphi sword -> horse. Pharsalos run riot too! Give them a clown. Argos horse -> sword. Rhodes sword -> sword. Troy sword -> sword. Halicarnassus harbor -> sword.

10 (670 AD): Clown in Hangchow taken away as they get luxuries.

Summary: We have nearly 20 horsemen + some swordsmen hanging around. Could wreak havoc in Zulu lands if you want to. This was really just preparation. Should maybe have got Music Theory instead of Astronomy, but never mind that. Besides, it could open luxury trade with other nations.

I'll leave the warfare to more experienced guys :)Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hkon-670ad.sav) Good riddance!

Guys sorry for not being totally in the loop here.
Is it my turn?

Sounds like it. It gets a bit weird when two players are sort of on and off, due to reasons outside their control.

OK, great, I'll play tonight and post tomorrow morning.

Ah, and it's back to my turn again after Yndy. :)

Try to finish offthe war fast, so I can't mess up it...

I change some cities from horsemen to marketplaces as they are one of the few buildings I favour more than military. Building those regular horses was not the best thing to do. Declare war to Zulu anyway.

670AD Kill one Impi. Advance towards Zulu lands.
680AD Capture Nanking. Capture Ngome. Decrease tech rate to 30%.
690AD Astronomy discovered. Start Banking research project due in 5. Change Sparta to Copernicus
700AD Capture Umfolozi.
710AD Capture Hlobane.
720AD I act foolishly and let two cities revolt.
730AD Capture Shantung.
740AD Xerxes has Spices and we're desperately in need for luxuries. Give him Silks, Incense and World Map for Spices and 12g.
750AD Banking discovered. I'm not sure whether we should go towards Shakespeare's, a great wonder for 20K or Military Tradition to dominate the world. I decide for the first. Research Printing Press in 4. One of our iron sources has exhausted. Capture Tugela. We vacate Hlobane and retreat our troops in other positions.
760AD According to the plan Hlobane is captured by Zulu and we re-capture it the next turn. Unfortunately we had another level of War weariness. I would make peace with Zulu and pick another target but I leave the decision with you Wizard.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hkon-760ad.sav)

Edit: OK the Zulus were tough to swallow as their 2 moves Impi made our horses fight to the last man and several died. We did not get any leader mostly because our armies consist of regular horses, of which few were upgraded. I changed to Copernicus because it will give us more culture. Actually I still hope we’ll get a leader and build Leo’s with it. Chivalry is available but only with few AIs, I’d still wait on that. Music Theory is nice only if we get another leader for Bach’s.
We should avoid trading, especially trading Invention and we should keep warring but not throw our armies in battle instead picking the most advantageous fights.

We did rush Sun Tzu's right? Should have no problem building vet units when the need arises.

Yes, we have a lot of regular troops. In general I might build the odd regular defender if I really can't afford the time to put a barracks in a city first. But I always build veteran attack units. Regulars are just not good value. In this game we need leaders to get an early finish.

Nicely played as always Yndy.

Lets go fishing.

Well, we won't have regulars now, cos I rushed Sun Tzu's when I could.

True. I did find that out at some point and intended to edit my initial comment though it slipped.

We still have some 5-8 reg horses built before the Sun Tzu was erected. I did not use them to attack fortified vet Impi because they did not stand a chance.

Sorry on the short report (you're kind to praise me mad-bax :thanx: ) but my wife played last night and I only had 45 minutes this morning.

Ok, so I'm up? Two SG's, and only 1 day...:undecide: I think I'll manage, though. :)

So this is a "got it".

So, here's the turnlog:

Preturn: Ok, seems like we have a nice SoD's heading into Zulu lands. :) Oh, Biz is :hammer: our ally, the Indians... Press enter.

IBT: Oh no! WW is kicking on, I guess... Athens and Beijimg riot... So do Shanghai, Canton, Allegheny, Hlobane, Delphi, the mob destroyed a Market in some town, Sparta if I saw right, Hangchow is also rioting, so are Knossos, Macao, Herakleia, Umfolozi, Ephesus, Thessalonica, Rhodes, Shantung and Troy. What have you been doing, Yndy? ;) I have to get some entertainers, we can't afford to set our lux slider any highrunless we want to slow down our research.

770AD: Move SoD's toward Zulu cities. Kill Zulu sword near Tugela with vet horse. Kill Zulu archer near Tunguin, horse becomes elite. The Zulu's have several packs of 2 to 3 Archers and swords on the way toward our border. Kill reg Impi near Hlobane with vet horse.

IBT: Zulu archer wins against our hoplite. Germany wants peace, but I don't want to violate the alliance we have with India. Seems like India did, as he signs peace...:rolleyes: Well, we were the trustworthy ones, weren't we? Most cities settle down, but we still have a few ones rioting...

780AD: Move a SoD beside Isandhlwana and what do I see: a pikeman! :eek: This will slow down our attack... Vet horse kills sword on hill near Tugela. Vet sword kills a archer, and ditto. We have a mighty SoD of numerous horses in Hlobane, but there is a Zulu "army" of a sword and a archer there, so I dn't want to risk any horses.

IBT: A Roman archer proceeds towards Canton and it's empty, so I'll be aware. We learn PP! Start Democracy.

790AD: Our horse is killed in a battle against a sword near Hlobane. Kill archer with vet horse, become elite. Kill sword with horse.

IBT: Sparta builds CO. :) Start Leo's. Yay! We get to expand our palace.

800AD: Vet horse is killed by Impi near Hlobane. And another. And the Impi was down to one HP... Whoops, attack with reg horse, no chances, he is killed. Some superimpi or what... :( Now he kills a vet sword. Ah, at last: our vet horse wins.

IBT: Persia would want to trade WM for WM + PP, but I say no. Our sword is killed by Zulu sword near Isand. Marathon court > Marketplace.

810AD: I don't dare to attack Isandhlwana, because there is a pike there. I just wait there for Zulu units come and get killed by our horses.

IBT: Whoa! The Zulu pump up into our sight a huge SoD of swords and archers, together at least 8.

820AD: Move stack of 7 horses back into our territory to flee from the Zulu massive uprise. Now with a few reinforcements we should be able to win this huge battle.

IBT: The Zulu offer peace, I accept for WM + Amatikulu + New Ulundi. We need to get our WW nolled and this war is useless, they have pikes and our horses are no match for them... Mad- Bax may continue the war if he wants to, But I'm not really into it. Pharsalos Temple > Market.

830AD: I offer peace to Bizzy, he accepts to pay WM + Frankfurt for it.

IBT Several English spearman- settler- pairs wonder to the unclaimed lands where the Empire of China used to be. Delphi Market > bank. Mycenae Harbor > bank.

840AD: Nothing much, assing worker jobs.

IBT: Lizzy would trade Chivalry for PP. She would also pay 4 gp + WM... I refuse. no tech trading on the AI's move. Hammurabi wants RoP. He would pay 4 gp for it. I refuse. Rhodes market > bank.

850AD: :sleep:

IBT: Ephesus sword > bank. Witht 5 banks, we can get the wall street.

860AD: Assign even more workers.

:undecide: Did I do the right decision? (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hkon_860_AD.SAV)

Ok, you may :whipped: me if you think I did the right decision when I made peace...

Wiz, please don’t take this the wrong way but I left the cities like this on purpose. You had to check at the very least if the cities will riot the following turn. Besides, I wrote that war weariness hit another level. I also left you the chance to end the war and the war weariness in the same time.

Ending the war would have been the best decision but I did not want to make it myself. Ending the war later was of course good. We are fishing for leaders and crippling civs not in the business of early domination. Not attacking the city was good. Trading for Chivalry would have been a possibility (not in the inter-turn of course), no right or wrong answer here, we would like to minimize its cost if possible.

Again, sorry for giving you a hard time, but you need to understand things are not passed in perfect shape. When I play my turn I spend a third of my time reviewing the pre-turn.

Well it's not quite the weekend yet so you'll have to skip me (I think it's my turn...).

Sorry, I should have read your post better...:(

Well, if I got your point right, you're saying that I didn't do so much harm I thought I did...:) But, I might have got the point wrong...

Originally posted by Dominix
Well it's not quite the weekend yet so you'll have to skip me (I think it's my turn...).

Yeah, Wizard skipped you already by accident :)

So mad-bax is up, maybe Dominix could take the turn after him?

If-so, line-up should look something like this:

1. mad-bax
2. Dominix (?)
3. Smellincoffee (?)
4. Håkon
5. Yndy
6. Wizard

Oh, and Smellincoffee, how is your computer doing?

OK, I see it. Not sure when I'll get to it, but it will probably be tomorrow as I have a BIG SG turn to play tonight in the Chamber of Secrets.

Is it still running? Man, it started in July or something...:rolleyes:

Parents bought a new monitor. I'll see if that's was the problem as the days progress.

Tomorrow, if the machine is working, I really CAN "give thanks". ;)

OT:

The Chamber of Secrets game is now at around 1920AD. We are fighting modern armour and mech infantry with tanks and infantry.
Currently we have around 100 arty, 100 tanks and 100 infantry along with more workers than you can comfortably shake a stick at. Each turn takes 45 minutes, and the handover turn around 2 hours. I have the game at the moment and we are 270 tiles from domination, but in 5 turns time I have to make peace at any cost. If I don't reach the domination limit in time it will be another 25 turns before we are allowed to declare war again.

This is why I couldn't play this game last night, though it would have given me some light relief from COS.

Whoa! :eek: Enormous amounts! Now I get your meaning on BIG SG turn...

I finished COS last night. Well, this morning in the end. I will play this tonight. Again I apologise for the delay, but now COS is over I will be under far less time pressure.

Ok, I'll be ready to take it tomorrow when you're done :)

Nice. :)

I don't really think this delay is so bad yet, you at least post why you can't do it. :)

860AD: Pre-turn. Micromanaged Sparta to get Leos 2 turns earlier.
Hurried temple in Macao for the Gems.
Shanghai is 100% corrupt. So it gets a temple
Canton gets temple
Fired a couple of dozen clowns.
The temples were for cultural expansion. Yes, some of these towns will get courts but they need to expand to support their population, gain recources and join our cultural boundaries up.

OK. There are some deals avalilable.

Germany gets Silks, Monarchy and Currency for wines.
Chivalry is there to be had but I would have to give up a monopoly tech to get it, even though it's only printing press. I may be looking at 10 turns of peace here, unless I start on the English. We'll see.

We have 25 workers and 35 cities. We have half the workers we need.

Reduce science to 10%. Democracy still due in 1.
Reduce lux to 0%

IBT:
Learn Democracy, research Free Artistry in 4 turns at a small defecit.

870AD:
Moved some troops around.

IBT:
Athens bank - musket
Tsingtao court - library
Argos uni - horse
Troy market - horse

880AD:
Moved some troops

IBT:
Beijing Temple - worker
Nanking hoplite - worker
Corinth duct - horse
Hangchow Settler - worker
Persians start Leos.

890AD:
I'm going to settle fairly aggressively next to the wheat at Canton. But I am going to be careful not to steal tiles from Rome. I have read that it can lead to a war declaration, and that wouldn't be good in this part of the map.

IBT:
Learn Free Artistry Research chemistry to Military tradition. Due in 6 turns.
Chengdu temple - worker
knossos musket - musket
Macao worker - worker (hurried)
Herakleia market - horse

900AD
Found Artemisium in a weird place.

910AD:
Nothing happening.

IBT:
Athens musket - musket
Argos horse - horse

920AD:
Nothing happened.

IBT:
Shanghai library - worker
Canton library - worker
Hangchow library - worker
Troy horse - horse
Pergammon court - musket

930AD:
Assembled a stack of 10 horses, which could become 10 knights or 10 cav, depending on what everyone wants to do.

IBT:
Corinth horse - horse
Ngome settler - Musket
Marathon market - horse

940AD:
Nothing happened.

IBT:
Spices deal runs out. Xerses wants a lux and horses this time.I'll let the next player decide if it's a good idea or not. The only trouble with ending a lux deal IBT is the rioting problems. This case is an exception.

Macao worker - worker (hurried)
Helicarnassus court - horse

IBT:
Athens Musket - Musket
Tsintao Library - Musket
Chengdu worker - worker
Argos horse - horse
Herakleia horse - horse
Iroquoisand Romans start Leos
English Start Bachs

960AD:
Tidied up a bit.
A couple of Iroquois MWs enter out lands by Epheseus. I feel a little light in the defense department. 9 hoplites and 3 muskets to defend 35 cities.

Rome has wines and Chivalry
England has Chivalry and Music Theory
Persia has Spices and Chivlary.

All the rest are broke and stupid.

Obviously we are not going to get Leos, Bachs and Shakes. But we can get two of the three without a leader. Which two? I know what I would choose.But there is a possible twofer. Trade printing press to England for MT and then PP to Persia for chivalry and maybe (but probably not) spices. I haven't tried it.

Shakes will complete in 5 if you switch to it now, or you can buy MT and switch to Bachs. Both give more culture than Leos, and we would get either quicker. But, can we do without Leos?

Take your pick
>>here<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/HK-960AD.SAV)

Got it

960AD (0): Do some troop shuffling, see if we can move some more offensive units to the front and keep those warriors stuck back. My god, we definitely are low on workers and military.

IBT: Get Chemistry, research Metallurgy at 3.7.0, 5 turns at 5gpt

970AD (1): Investigate Hastings, the city building Bachs for the English. It must be in revolt since it says Bachs is due in 99 turns... Anyways, it's got 6spt plus 2 corrupt shields, has 4 extra food but no granary, growth in 5 turns. Not too many more developed tiles though, so I'm guessing it's going to hang around 8spt. I can't tell how many shields have already been built, but looks like it's only around 6. English have 1 iron and horse.

The English are not building Leos, so I'm going to see if we can build Leos before any other civs discover MT (fat chance I know, but maybe they'll pursue Astronomy and something else first). Anyways, that should cut off the cascade, and if Hastings continues to build Bachs, we might be able to have Sparta get it first. Shake's saved for last.

MM Pergamon to build Musket in 9. Change Ngome to worker. Exactly which front are we sending our horses too? Send the horses towards Zulu border, war with Rome or England doesn't look too appetizing.

IBT: Eretria riots, aye must pay better attention.

Troy horse > horse
Marathon horse > horse

980AD (2): Megara founded, set to library. Ah, just noticed all the horses in Hangchow, I guess that would be the front mad bax was referring to.

IBT: Nanking worker > library, Corinth horse > horse, Ngome worker > musket

990AD (3): Shift some workers away from Rhodes and Miletos and to Tugela and Pharsalos. Some of our cities are going to need aqueducts after they finish with current production.

IBT Athens musket > musket, Beijing worker > worker, Knossos mustket > worker, Argos horse > horse

1000AD (4): switch Tugela to courthouse, Hlobane to courthouse, MM Athens to get 20spt. Workers from Beijing, Shanghai and Canton are currently heading to deal with the jungle near Delphi. Muskets from the core are heading to cities in the front. Change sliders to 4.6.0, Meta still in 2, at 52gpt.

IBT, Thermopylae market > aqueduct, Herakleia horse > horse, Thessalonica bank > worker, Halicarnassus horse > horse. Iro city Golgouen wants to flip to us, I decline as it's stuck right in the middle of jungle and we don't have the spare workers to go help it.

1010AD (5): nothing much

IBT: We get Metallurgy, I don't think we're in any particular rush for MT, and we do need some money for upgrades, research MT at 4.6.0 in 6 turns at 57gpt (can be done in 5 at 3.7.0). WLTK in Thermopylae. New Ulundi hoplite > worker, Knossos worker > musket, Umfolozi settler > library, Marathon horse > aqueduct. English start building Leos in London, does that mean if we get it first, London will switch to Bachs, or will they keep building it in Hastings?

1020AD (6): Persia has MT, going to stop here because I'm not sure how we should proceed. I really think we're going to need Leos to make use of those horses, but Bachs does have better culture.

Here is the link (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/HK-1020AD.SAV)

Looks good, and clever to stop there. :)

Can anyone else get shake's? If not, I thgink we should build Leo's, then shake's, but otherwise... no idea.

Hmm... would it be possible to research and gift to those 3 AIs economics and have the cascade from Leo's go to Smiths?

...it's my turn, right?

It's been so long since I was able to play that I had quite forgotten the rotation. :lol: Consider this a "got it", although I need a few minutes to reread this thread to situate myself. :D I'll wait for more discussion since we appear to be at a critical point?

Inherited:: 1020: The last time I was able to play, we had four cities and our main concern was barbarians. I'm amazed at all the cities without defense- but maybe I'm paranoid. We seem to be leading the tech race. Three civilizations have Chilvary over us (big deal) and two have Music Theory. I go through the various leaders to see what deals we have. The only real deals we have are with Germany, who we're trading luxuries with. Our biggest military threats are Rome and Persia- both have stronger militaries than we. Persia is also annoyed at us, which isn't very comforting. The only people furious at us are the Zulu. There's an Iroquios mounted warrior and settler in our land, near Sparta. Not sure where the heck they're going.

Sparta has 2991 culture ( :( ) and is gaining 45 culture per turn. At this rate, it'll take us 378 turns to reach 20K. I'm not entirely sure why we're researching military tradition. Tap enter, then remember I wanted to switch to economics.



Turn 1 1030: The Persians are building JS Bach's cathedral. Allegheny riots, due to my misreading a slightly happy- yet content- face for a happy face. Ugh. Various cities finish things and start things. The cities that had defense built workers. Cities that need more defense got defenders. Athens starts on another musketman to send to a needy city. I switch over to Economics. It's due in five turns, same as Military Tradition would've been. The horseman outside of Tientsin moves into the town. Persia did something with their military. It went from stronger to ours to average. (Eh?) We have 39 cities and 36 workers.


Turn 2 1040: The Zulu begin Leonardo's workshop. Join the club. Order in Allegheny is restored. Various rival settler pairs are returning to their respective dung heaps.

Turn 3 1050: Nothing much. The Romans are sending a settler/legion pair somewhere. We need to see about hooking up our three last cities.

Allegheny: The best way to do this is getting a road to the Iroquios cty of Tyendenaga. Unfortunately, we'd need to go through FIVE tiles of jungle to do that. ( :( )

Amatikulu: Seven tiles of grassland, most in neutral territory. (Almost the majority of that will belond to Tarentum when/if it's borders expand.)

New Ulundi: Essentially a lost cause. The approaches are almost solid forest, hills, and moutains, except for some Zulu-owned tundra. It'd take like eighty turns to build a harbor here, though.

Turn 4 1060: Delphi is about to undergo disease. :( Bablyon begins Leo's. ( :lol: ) We should think about building a forbidden palace somewhere. Phocaea founded where its go-to order let it. That's going to irritate those poor Roman legions. Marching all the way through Rome and Zululand, just to be beaten to the site by us swarmy Greeks.

Turn 5 1070: The deal with Bismark is up, and we've lost our wines. This ticks Athens, Canton, Thessolonica, and some city whose name began with an "H" off. Suddenly the National Circus hits all of these towns at once. Delphi doesn't get hit by disease. (Eh?) I figure out why- our brave workers cleared a jungle tile this turn, and that must've been the naughty tile producing the disease.

Turn 6 1080: Economics done. I decide on Physics. We'll need it for Theory of Gravity- and Sparta's not on the ocean, so Navigation would serve no purpose. Music theory was out because everyone except for the Indians (muffled snicker) is building JS Bach's little..thing. Most of our towns are now somehat defended (hoplites, swordsmen, muskets) and only some are left with just horsemen. I'm not sure what to do with the worker trapped on Eretria, so he gets to mine a hill for no purpose at all.

Turn 7 1090: Not much, just telling our hordes of slaves what to do and where. The...settler (?!) in Allegheny is done, and I frankly have no idea what to do with it. I scan the map for potential city sites. There's blank land- in the former Zulu territory, now occupied by unexpanded, totally corrupt Greek and Roman cites- but none of them are actually fit (have room) for settling. I do the cheap thing and fortify the guy. Settler in Allegheny!

Turn 8 1100: We can build Wall Street! Where do we want to build it? Use it as a prebuild for future wonders? Or just put it somewhere nice, like Athens? We'll only get 50 gold from it, but that would take care of most of our maintainence. (We're currently forking out 76 GPT for building maintainence). Aside from wondering about this, nothing happens besides some worker assignments. (Irrigating mined cows, irrigating mined wheats, mining empty grassland...what was China thinking?)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Sparta_leo.jpg

Turn 9 1110: Hurrah! Leonardo blesses Sparta with his workshop. Due to our generously offering him a place to base his buisness from, he gives us loads of "half off" coupons for when we bring our troops in for better suits of armor. Cool. I debate on what I want to build in Sparta, but not for long. Smith's trading company is divine (and would free up 76 GPT), but William really brings the cultured crowds in! England and Persia switch their JS Bach production to take advantage of the cascade. Everyone else, I'm assuming, is enjoying cathedrals. :)

Turn 10 1120: Bismark, bless his backward soul, offers us wines for incense and 36 GPT. I can't get him to come down from that price (which is most of our income) so I said thanks but no thanks. However, I wanted to let the next player know that the option is there, and an extra lux would help us fire some of those fools in the National Circus.

Closing Remarks: The west is slowly beginning to conform to Greek ideas of democracy, equality, and all of that gibberish. The local gods are once again being honored, and a firm military prescence lets Rome and the Zulu know that we're an arsenal of democracy, or something like that. We have four cities unconnected, although Phocaea is close to be connected. No one is building Willy's little playhouse, so that's safe.William's playdate is set in nineteen days. Smith is safe, too- for now. No one has touched him. Oh, we have a huge garrison of horsemen in Hangchow left over from the war with the Zulu.

And with that, Smellincoffee, Archon of the Hellenic Republic, steps down to tend the farm. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/HKON1-1120AD.zip)


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Hkon_empire.jpg

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52733

20K Regent win. Think it might be helpful?

Nice job there, and nice to have you back in the round! :goodjob:

So, who's up next?

Good to be back! :D :D :D


According to the first-page rotation, Håkon.


Just reread my report: silly me. Smith wouldn't take care of ALL of our maitainence, just the marketplaces, banks, and such. :crazyeye: :crazyeye:

Got it!

This looks like a tough, but interesting turn.

Good to have you back, smellin - you saved me yesterday, I wouldn't have been able to get the game cos of flu attack...anyway, will play tonight.

I tend to have different definitions of tonight :)

Inherited turn (1120 AD): Change 1 tax collector to worker, otherwise no problems. Notice that Iroquois have a Mounted Warrior and Settler inside our territory. Decide not to bother, since we don't need a war right now. Change sliders to 6.4.0 Physics still in 2 turns.

IBT: Hangchow worker -> CH.
Thessalonica MM -> Uni.
Halicarnassus swordsmen (why?) -> lib.

1 (1130 AD): Swordsmen sent to Megara for defensive purposes.

IBT: Physics -> ToG. Allegheny riots. Give them a clown.
Pharsalos MM -> uni.
Amatikulu work -> lib.

2 (1140 AD): Sliders changed to 3.7.0. ToG in 5 turns at -16 gpt. Save Frankfurt from riot by giving them a clown. Change production to CH from Library (what was the point of building library, ch gives better science effect when corruption is huge). Artemisium, Amatikulu, Umfolozi, Nanking, Shantung and Megara get same treatment. Disband swordsmen in Pharsalos.

IBT: Shanghai work -> CH.
Tsingtao MM -> Market.
Macao work -> work.
Ephesus riots. Give them a clown.

3 (1150 AD): Disband warrior in Tsingtao.

IBT: Chengdu work -> work.
Phocaea warrior -> work.

4 (1160 AD): RIMJC (Roading, irrigation, mining, jungle chopping).

IBT: Athens cathedral -> Smith's. Get rid of a clown.
Delphi temple -> uni.
Rhodes temple -> aqueduct.

5 (1170 AD): Sliders back to 4.6.0. Profit of 40gpt, ToG in 2 turns.

IBT: Canton riots. They need a lot of clowns...

6 (1180 AD): RIMJC.

IBT: Persia declare war on Iroquois!
ToG -> Military Tradition. Think we need to upgrade our military.
Knossos temple -> uni.
Tugela musketman -> library.
Herakleia musketman -> uni.

7 (1190 AD): More RIMJC. Sliders set to 2.8.0. MT in 4 turns at -83 gpt.

IBT: Allegheny work -> work.
Ephesus temple -> uni. Lose a clown.
Ngome musketman -> aqueduct.

8 (1200 AD): RIMJC.

IBT: Halicarnassus lib -> uni.

9 (1210 AD): More RIMJC. Change sliders to 3.7.0. MT still in 2 turns at -28gpt.

IBT: Mycenae musketman -> uni. Disband warrior.

10 (1220 AD): Move a couple of units around that's all. Remove an unneccessary clown in Allegheny.

Summary: Shakes in 9, then get Newton. There wasn't really a lot to do with this turn.

See what you can do (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Hkon1220AD.sav)

Yndy is up next.

I see it and will dl it tonight if my modem choses to work. I'm having some troubles, couldn't log on yesterday until late in the evening. So i'm late in several things.

No prob. We can wait for a pro like you to play. :D

We have three known sources of saltpeter, btw. One of `em isn't hooked up. Perhaps we could sell?

Not to our neighbors at least, they could attack us and they'd have musketmen, and we would be in trouble. Unless we have MT, whioch we are getting pretty soon, but still it's easier to capture cities with pikes in them than musketmen.

Anyway, I think we could sell it to India? They're small, and we could get them to be a powerful ally.

India have no tech, I seem to remember...

Oh, then that is impossible...

Yes, India was still in the ancient era at the beginning of my turn. I think they managed to get into middle ages, though. :lol:

:hmm: Ancient Era? Seems like the Germans managed to cripple them in the war they had...

Let's see... I think we could get easily rid of someone once we get those horses upgraded into Cavalries, if we have enough money. :) Cavarlys could :hammer: the defences of almost anyone we know currently...

Originally posted by Wizard
:hmm: Ancient Era? Seems like the Germans managed to cripple them in the war they had...

Let's see... I think we could get easily rid of someone once we get those horses upgraded into Cavalries, if we have enough money. :) Cavarlys could :hammer: the defences of almost anyone we know currently...

Yup, they are about to do just that :D. And india now knows the first tier of Middle Age techs. I'm currently at work and would probably not play tonight. I'm hallf way through the turn.

You wouldn't happen to halfway done rampaging through some poor AI's kingdom, would you? :lol:

-> From Hakon's comments and my first look I see that we need another luxury asap. We could actually use two of them.
-> I check active deals only to see we don't have any. Now being ahead in tech is good but a trade now and then could be useful.
-> Engineering and Monotheism to the backward Indians bring us wines.
-> I imagine you're building some banks for the Wall Street but we can already build that. I change all cities to Uni's.

Actually I want the cities to finish their builds as soon as possible to focus on something more important right now: units. All infrastructure is postponed till factories.
-> Hopelessly corrupt cities like Artemisium don't need a courthouse. The effort greatly exceeds the use. Changed that one to Horse, just as the others. Rush those horses. as we won't be able to make any more after next turn.
-> We can build five wonders counting Bach's. You say we can't have them all? What about leaders? In situations like this we have to fish for leaders. I'll start next turn.
-> I spend about 1000g on rush builds but I'll have a lot of horses next turn :p. Our loss per turn has decreased to 20gpt.
-> A tedious move that I have to make most of the time when I play to lower level players (I don't want that to sound offending). Converging all units to a position where I can control them easier.
%^#*&^(^%#%$^ !!! I loaded the game in PTW again. Juyst found out when I issued the move stack order. Load and repeat.Done. This was long! Press the blue-orange button.

1230 (1) Discover Military tradition. Go for Magnetism at 0% (we need cash to upgrade our horses). Upgrade 5 horses and we'll upgrade 8 cavs per turn from now on. Unfortunately all the horses that I rushed changed to Cavs adn now we have half

built cavs all over the empire. I leave them like that for now. Ask English to remove or declare and they declare. The negative war weariness is good.

1240 (2) People are celebrating the new war. We lose a worker on a mountain. Kill an archer. We now have 12 Cavalries in Hangchow to be unleashed next turn. A corrupt town revolts.

1250 (3) Another corrupt town revolts. That's all for today. Part two. Kill 2 knights, a sword and an archer. We now have a decent number of Cavalries and proceed towards Warwick with a stack of 10 Cavs.

1255 (4) Persia finishes Bach's. :(. Change research to 50% with Magnetism due in 6. The taking of Warwick: Cav kill pike

and promotes; Cav retreats; Cav retreats; Cav kills spear; Cav kills Spear and takes Warwick.

1260 (5) Germany sign MA with Persia against Iroquois. Taking of Coventry: Cav kills Pike; Cav kills Spear; Cav kills Longbow and takes Coventry. Taking of Nottingham: Cav kills Pike; Cav dies; Cav kills Pike; Cav kills Spear and take Nottingham. Taking of Brighton: Cav kills Spear; Cav kills Spear and takes Brighton. Increase to 60% science.

1265 (6) Taking of Coventry?: Cav dies; Cav kills spear; Cav kills Pike and takes Hastings.

1270 (7) Taking of York: Cav kills Pike; Cav dies; Cav dies; Cav dies; Cav kills spear; Cav kills Spear and takes York. Taking of York: Cav retreats; Cav kills Pike; Cav kills Spear; Cav kills spear and takes Oxford.

1275 (8) Taking of Liverpool?: Cav kills Pike; Cav dies; Cav retreats; Cav retreats; Cav retreats. Our forces retreat. Taking of London?: Cav kills Pike; Cav kills Pike; Cav dies; Cav kills Pike; Cav retreats; Cav kills Pike; Cav kills Longbow and takes London. Tech rate reduced to 50%.

1280 (9) Magnetism discovered. We get Nationalism for our freebie. A lot of corrupt cities revolt (the negative WW ended?). Sparta built Shakespeare. Taking of Norwich: Cav kills Pike; Cav kills Spear; Cav kills Longbow and takes Norwich. Taking of Newcastle: Cav kills Pike; Cav kills Spear; Cav kills Longbow and takes Newcastle. Gift by mistake Printing Press to Rome (oops). Sell PP to Persia for 20gpt and 60g. Sell PP to Iroquois for Music Theory, 94 gold and World Map.

1285 (10) Taking of Liverpool: Cav retreats; Cav dies; Cav kills Spear; Cav kills Pike. Liverpool holds. Taking of Dover: Cav dies; Cav kills Spear; Cav kills Pike and takes Dover (no frikin' leader after more than 10 tries).

OK I'm done. We could get 3 worthelss cities for peace with England but we'd rather take one or two cities and get them anyway. I drafted three rifles and put some cities on governor. Good luck and get more leaders. We need them badly.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Hkon1285AD.sav)

Now that was brilliant! Well done Yndy! Save works too, excellent.

Does this count as week-end, Dominix? Looks like it's just a case of going in there and having a blast...again, well done.

No leader? :( Well, I suppose we'll get many chances still... So, We are really :hammer:ing the english, right?:) Way cool.

Heya, I got it but probably won't get it out till Saturday night, as I have studying for exams to do. Most likely will only fit 5 turns too since it looks like we're dealing with quite a large empire after "liberating" much of England.

Remember to use veterans for the hard stuff and elites for the easy ones, as we're fishing for GLs and don't want to lose our elites. Speaking of which, do we have any?

One, from Yndy's report - there may be more.

Sorry you guys, I think I'm going to have to drop this game. I just got notification this morning of something that I need to handle at school, and with exams to study during the weekend (and to take them next week) I probably won't be able to get back to this game for quite a while. Aye, have always read how RL could be a big issue with SGs but didn't really know it until now. Wish you guys luck with this SG, and maybe I'll be back in time for a few turns. For those who are also in the Wiz03 game, I'll still be in there as that game (Tiny map) if it comes back to me again.

Ok. Miss ya, you played well...

Wizard, you're up - sorry for not saying before :)

I am? Hmm... I'll play today afternoon when I get home from school.

Preturn: See what's going on... All looks good. :) Press enter...

IBT: India would like to trade WMs. Trade for WM + 5gp.

Hlobane library > Market.
Tientsin Market > library.
Argos cav > another.
Dover riots.
Marathon cav > another.

1290AD: How come the Iroquois have loads of troops in our area, but don't have RoP with us?

Battle of Birmingam: vet cav kills spear, -2hp.

Battle of Liverpool: Vet cav retreats from spear, spear loses 1 hp! :eek:

IBT: Hammurabi woul like a MP + RoP deal. I refuse. I've learnt not to sign MP's with the AI.

1295AD:
Battle of Birmingham:
Vet cav kills reg spear.
Vet cav kills reg archer, takes the city + 3 workers.

Battle of Liverpool:
Vet cav kills reg spear, promotes to elite, takes the city + 3 workers.

IBT: Tsingtao Market > bank.
Delphi cav > cav.
Pharsalos cav> another.
Miletos court > market.

1300AD: Here you go, next player can take it, I'm too tired to play well any more turns today...:(

And sorry, but the save is right from the beginning of the turn...

Must get some :sleep: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/hkno1300AD.SAV)

OK, mad-bax - let's see what you can do. Turns are too long at the moment, we need expertised players to play them :)

Good luck with bashing the English :)

OK I see it. Perhaps 5 turns each would be more manageable?

I thought of the same just a second ago when I read the post by Håkon and hadn't read your post yet. :)

So IMHO, we should take it down to 5 turns, there is so much to MM, that if you need to do it 10 turns/day it's a real killer...

OK. 5 turns a day it is. As long as you play more quickly than I do :)

1300AD: Pre-turn
Leeds
vet cav vs reg pike wins
Elite cav vs reg spear wins
Elite cav vs reg archer wins taking city.
Leeds - Library

Reading
vet cav vs reg spear wins
vet cav vs reg spear wins
One spear left. Will have to wait.
Moved troops, but it will take a couple of turns to get them where they are needed.

IBT:
The English request an audience. No thanks.
Thessalonica cavalry - court

1305AD:
Reading again.
Reg cav vs reg spear wins
Elite cav vs reg spear wins taking city.
Reading - worker.

Richmond
vet cav vs reg spear wins
vet cav vs refg spear wins taking city.
Richmond - worker

Offer peace to Liz for WM, Cambridge (don't even know where that is), 9g and 60gpt. I don't know where she is getting it from or what will happen when she runs out of money.
I can get spices from Persia. I'm tempted to have a little war with the Iroquois.

IBT:
Learn Steam research Electrickery.
Several cities revolt because of the draft. Should have caught it of course. :smoke:
coventry worker - worker
Warwick worker - worker
Knossos cavalry - harbour

1310AD:
We have 50 native workers and lots of slaves, but because they are all engaged in long term mountaineering projects I cant get started on railing this turn.
Nothing else happened, but I am going to start a war with the Iroquois in a couple of turns, just to knock them out of their stride, and to try to generate leaders. They are at war with the persians and a lot of their forces are moving north. Once they are a bit further up I'll declare.

IBT:
Nottingham worker - worker
Hastings worker - worker
Corinth Cavalry - cavalry
Hereklaia Cavalry - cavalry

1315AD:
Just moved units South. With so many Iroq units in our weakly defended areas I may not be able to declare in my turns after all.

IBT:
Ngome cavalry - aqueduct.
Hangchow cavalry - worker
Tientsin Library - Cavalry
Oxford worker - worker
Troy aqueduct - cavalry
Artemesium rifle - worker

Xinjian flips to us.

1320AD:
Nothing to report.

IBT:
London worker - worker
York worker - worker
Brighton worker - worker

1325AD:
Positioned troops.

End of turn notes.

1. Canton, Beijing, Shanghai and Tsintao are conscripting rifles every turn. This should continue until they are down to size 7. Do not conscript down to size 6 because the town will lose its defense bonus. The conscripts are being distributed around the towns where the Iroquois knights are.

2. Workers are being organised into gangs in our core. These gangs are to rail the tiles around Sparta as a priority, and then the core should be linked up by rail.

3. Corrupt 1 shield towns are producing workers to help rail. These should be organised into teams of 3 and they should rail in chain gangs to link the outlying cities together, working towards the core.

4. As workers finish their current tasks, they should form gangs for railing.

5. Research should be towards Scientific method. TOE will enable us to get Atomic theory and Electronics. This will allow hoovers. By this time we will have researched Industrialisation. When we complete scientific method we should research industrialisation and at the same time start factory pre-builds in our core.

6. The war against the Iroquois should start next turn. I have included a couple of screenshots to show where I would attack. The purpose is to generate leaders mainly, but also to hinder the Iroquois who are the next strongest opponent.

7. The first leader generated should hurry Newtons. Sparta should then build the FP. The next leader will Jump our Palace. I would put the palace in Grand river and abandon Leeds. The land is commercially rich, and disbanding Leeds will reduce corruption considerably. For this reason do not put improvements into Leeds.

8. All the knights around Warwick may cause problems. I have rushed walls in three dodgy towns to make sure they pay in a heavy coin to take a city. Hopefully some of the rifles will upgrade, and because of the barracks will heal in one turn. There is only a problem for the first turn.

9. The screenshots below show how I would attack. I would take out 4 towns on the first turn. On the second turn I would take out the Saltpetre at Niagra Falls.There is saltpetre at Gayahaake, but it will take a while to get to. We cannot afford the workers to road through the Jungle here. It's just too bad. However If you can take out this salt too, and the Gems at Centralia you will cause happiness problems and probably ruin their rep.

10. If war weariness becomes a problem it is possible to get spices from Persia for a lux and Saltpetre. I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but it seems unlikely that we will go to war with them anytime soon.

Have fun. It's going to get very busy now.

Split this stack in two.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/hcon2a.jpg

The route to the Iroquois core
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/hcon2b.jpg

A diversionary attack to offset the risk of the Iroquois attacking our core through the jungle.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/hcon2c.jpg

Here is the >>save<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/HKON-1325AD.SAV)

Whoa! You really are a professional player, m-b! :goodjob:

Do we already have our FP in Sparta? I guess we do, as you say we should do a palace jump...

Well, seems like Håkon is up, IIRC.

Hmmm...no...it's Smellincoffee, isn't it? His computer works fine now :)

Yes, I made a mistake... Which isn't such a rare happening...

Ohh dear.I've never fought a war on such a massive scale. All of mine are archer/swordsman/knight beatdowns. :eek:

Advice?

Well, check m-b's post and you can see the battle plan screenies. :)

Just do your best, I'm sure it's enough. :)

He's using two of his saltpeters..think maybe one of them is being traded. If so, it'd be nice to wreck 'ol Hiwatha's reputation. :)

Do it, man, you can do it! :D

Smellincoffee.

Just do it. The worst that can happen is that you fail and we laugh at you so much that you can't show your face on the forum again.... :D

It will have to wait 'til later today- had to help some neighbors empty their house and move into another- and I gotta register for college. (Last day I can do it w/out a late fee). I'll get to it ASAP.

No prob, but hurry up or I'll skip you.

Got it, playing now.

!--- The Save---! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/HKON1-1350.zip)


Inherited-1325 AD: I load up the save, am distressed that we're not at war as Mb's plans seemed to indicate. I figured out it's my job to declare war. Hiwatha has trades going to Zululand and Babylon. Hiwatha's military strenth is equal to ours. Hit enter.

Turn 1-1330: My, Hiwatha has a lot of troops shuffling around. Frankfort riots. Hiwatha has a whole bunch of units in our territory. Tempted to tell Hiwatha to scram or declare war, but some of our cities have practically no defense. (And some cities have absolutely none.) Briefly wonder why I can't draft some o' these Yorkians--then realize they're all English bums.

Turn 2-1335: Remember that town Mad bax said we should take as a diversion? No need.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/flip_wig.jpg

We lose wines. Hit enter before I remember to micromanage our now-unhappy citizenry. :( I miss the stack movement of PTW/C3C.

Turn 3-1340: Move some border workers (Iro. border) into city. Notice X-Man needs saltpeter. But he's not even connected to the continent, so I'm not going to bother. Sparta is at 5118 gaining 62 cpt. At this rate, we'd need 240 more turns. Good thing there's quite a few more wonders, eh? I suddenly remember we're only doing five turns now and that it's going to look awfully suspicious if I hand in a .sav with no progress. I miss being able to rename my troops at will. :(

Turn 4-1345: I deploy a cavalry in the middle of a field. He's keeping two spaces away from a Iroquios longbowman. Once we go to war, he can eliminate that risk. I go to the tech menu, click scientific method (so mandatory techs willl be auto-queued), then go back. I then discover that I just bungled ALL OF OUR RESEARCH in Electricity because the game decided to switch research to medicine, a first tier tech. Someone shoot me and save my teamates the trouble.Ugh. Top-rated defender in Gayagaahe is a musketman.

Turn 5-1350: Um...England signs a MA with the Persians against the Iroquios. Yep, OCC England. For some reason I think Hiwatha wants to sneak-attack us, but I don't know. Maybe I'm paranoid due to the amount of attacks on me in my solo games. Criminy, we don't have any troops in Oxford. Upgrade two border hoplites into Rifles.

Situation: no war. Might be one. Iroquios acting awfully suspicious to lil' paranoid me. One scouting cavalry in Iroquios territory, so don't declare war. Riflemen bound for Oxford, should be there in one or two turns. We'll know medicine- but not electricity :( - in four turns. I forgot to check on the moods of our populance, next player will need to.

This border is relativly secure... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/troop_border.jpg)

Nice work there securing our lands into wartime. :)

Hmm... gah, can't remember who is up... ah, Håkon, IIRC.

:hmm: I'm all the time thinking thos is my own SG, and bouncing people up and down when that licence should be Håkon's...

No problem :)

I'm not organised enough to remember who's up anyway...

This is a got it, btw.

No cat o' nine tails for my goofing up Electricity?


Cool. I think I'll abandon Sparta next time! ;)

:hmm: What are you talking about?

Ah, I've messed up like that too sometimes. Don't take it too hard, a few turns here or there propably won't kill us.

And, if you abandon Sparta, I'll never let you into any of my SG's again. :p

We needed medicine for Darwin anyway...argh! Just realised

Turn 0 (1350 AD): Fortify a musketman in Marathon. Press return and cross fingers.

IBT: A lot of Iroquois units move. Thermopylae uni -> bank. Knossos harbor -> uni. Herakleia cav -> uni. Reading work -> work.

Turn 1 (1355 AD): Rifleman in York fortify. Rifleman from Shanghai sent to London. I don't like this situation at all, Iroquois have tons of units. So do we, but they are badly misplaced. Move 2 cavs from Newcastle to London. Move 2 cavs from Newcastle to OXford. Move 1 cav from Brighton to York. See a load of go-to units move. Move 1 cav from Dover to Nottingham. Cav from Herakleia sent to Hangchow. Cav from Leeds punished, sent to Coventry. Cav from Liverpool sent to Hasting. Looks a bit better now.

IBT: More Iroquois movement. Smithy complete in Athens. Go to Wall Street. Hastings work -> work. Coventry work -> work. Resistance in Oxford has ended. Thessalonica CH -> temple.

Turn 2 (1360 AD): Change prod in Newcastle to Worker. Change prod in Dover to worker (lose 5 shields, but there was no point in building rifles) No point in corrupt Leeds to build a library. Change to worker. Change prod in Birmingham to worker. Artemisium changed to worker. Railroad a lot of squares. Change sliders to 5.5.0 (still med in 2 turns, +216gpt)

IBT: Peace Iroquois v Persia. Iroquois move their units back again! Nottingham work -> work. Dover work -> work. Halicarnassus cav -> cav. Leeds work -> work.

Turn 3 (1365 AD): Sliders moved to 6.4.0 (med in 1 turn, +322gpt). Cav sent from Halicarnassus to Goiguen.

IBT: Iroquois move more units. Medicine -> Industralization (yes, I know, but irrigation without water isn't that important, and Women's Suffrage gives 4 cp). Xinjian work -> work. Corinth cav -> uni. Delphi cav -> cav. Pharsalos cav -> bank. Hangchow work -> work. Argos cav -> temple. Oxford work -> work.

Turn 4 (1370 AD): All Spartan squares now have RR. Cav from Delphi sent to Leeds. Corinth cav sent to Goiguen. Pharsalos cav sent to Leeds. Change sliders to 3.7.0 (ind in 6 turns, +61gpt). I still fail to realise how far ahead we are on the tech tree...

IBT: London work -> work. York work -> work. Sparta Newton -> FP (Women's Suffrage prebuild...can be built on our own as well, I don't quite remember the plan) Tientsin cav -> cav. Ephesus cav -> cav. Brighton work -> work.

Turn 5 (1375 AD): Ephesus cav sent to Leeds. Tientsin cav sent to Leeds.

Seeing as I have another 2 SGs to play tonight, and as there was a suggestion only to play 5 turns each, I'll stop there.

Last words: Well, this could take ages. There's no doubt Sparta could get to 20K, but it's gonna last for a while..I think we could possibly win by all other victory conditions before culture in this game. I suppose we could go to war with the Iroquois - in fact, we probably need to, to get Women's Suffrage reasonably quickly. We have 51 cavalry - gods know where they all are - and as the Iroquois only have Pikemen and Knights, they should be ran over. I'm not sure though...

Grab this now (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Hkon1375AD.sav)

The war should have started 10 turns ago.
Quick 20K victories are gained by generating leaders at a rate which matches your tech pace - wonder availability. The quicker you generate leaders the faster you can get the wonder techs and build them.

A lot of the culture we have will double up before the end of the game, which at a guess will be around 1850. If I put it into a 20K calculator I'd know exactly.

Don't make the mistake of thinking 20K is all about building. It's not. Its all about generating leaders and controlling tech rates. For that you need lots of weak opponent units, and a strong core supporting the wonder city.

What do the Iroquois have? <cough>
What do we lack? The <cough> <cough> FP.

Not having built the FP and subsequently moved the Palace is the major fault in this game. This is purely because we are at least 3 or four leaders short of where we should be at this stage. (FP, Palace move, Smiths). If we had been a little lucky we could have had pyramids, army and Heroic Epic by now.

I'm not critisising, just trying to persuade you that you have nothing to fear from the regent AI. 50 Cavalry would be good in a deity game.

If Yndy is up next, read his turnlog carefully. You might find it instructive.

How much ctp are we getting in Sparta? I mean, when parts f it double, how much will it aproximately be?

Goodl uck, whoever is next.

I see it and will attempt playing today. Unfortunately, my work schedule is very tight and there's no break foreseen.

Well, you only have to play 5 turns, so hopefully you can fit it into some corner of you scedule, I really don't like to start that war, I'll leave it up to you. :)

Any chance of playing this, Yndy? (know how it is, I haven't been very good with my SGs either)

I say that if Yndy doesn't play, then I'll let m-b start the war: I'm very poor at wars. And I mean it. I'd just mess everything...

I could fit a couple of hours in my schedule and played 2 turns. Hopefully will post tonight. Sorry to keep you waiting.

No problem, it's worth it IMHO if it is waiting for you. :)

This time I remember it's vanilla but fire PTW anyway. I see we are way ahead techwise. That's good. Cities are OK , that's good too. Culture 20K is far away. Le'me make some math (on SirPleb's 20K calculator). It projects 20K by 1956. At least we're still able to do it.

Change cities to Factory prebuilds as follows: Delhpi, Herakleia, Argos, Tessaloniki. I already ran out of time tonight. Nighty night.

OK, I see we've managed to overcome most common mistake number one: defend all the cities. Now I will bugger you about general mistake number two: neglect commerce. We could use more luxuries. It costs us almost nothing to get those luxuries and money. So do it:
Trade Economics to Persia for Spices and 23 gpt. Renegotiate peace with Persia for 60 gold. Sign RoP with Persia for 90 gold.

Give India Chemistry, Theology and RoP for Wines, WM and 1 gold. Sell Free Artistry and the world map for about 50 gold.

Declare war to Iroqouis to gain one more turn. Kill 6 Knights, 2 Longbows, 1 Sword, 2 Muskets, 2 Pikes, 5 Spears by losing 1 Cav and getting Caughnawaga and Canterbury in the process. Find 3 fortified workers while looking for units. Uprgade 1 Catapult to Cannon. Move 13 Cavs on the hills surrounding Grand River.

IT: The bulk of the Iroquois army pops up from the jungles West of Hangchow.

1380AD: First attack kills a knight and generates a leader. We further kill 4 Knights, 3 Longbows, 1 Sword, 2 Muskets, 3 Pikes, 1 Spear but we lose 4 Cavs. We capture Grand River and Oil Springs as a result. Hmm, there were some GoTo orders active.

IT: The lightly defened Hangchow is razed by the Iroquois. We also lose 4 Rifles, 1 Cav and 3 workers in the region. Norwich and Warwick are now threatened.

1385: kill 5 Knights, 2 Mounted Warriors, 3 Longbows, 1 Sword, 2 Muskets, 1 Pike, 3 Spears losing 1 Cav and capturing Tyendenaga, Niagara Falls. It's morning yet I'm sleepy. Oaaaah...Brake

IT: Norwich is captured but Warwick holds. We lost three rifles and a Cavalry but several Iroquois Knights, Mounted Warriors, Archers and Swords died as well.

1390: Start by attacking Salamanca, kill a musket, then remember that our leader just got to Sparta, FP rushed (I built a Cav this turn to avoid wasting shields). Kill 1 Musket, 1 Pike and 1 Spear and take Salamanca. Kill 2 spears and take Kawauka. Lose an Elite Cavalry at Tonawanda but then kill a musket and 2 Pikes and take the city. I try to use the momentum to capture Chondote defended by a Pike and a Spear but there's also a longbow and I dont have any units that can attack this turn. Instead I kill some five stray Iroquois units and prepare the future attacks.

IT: The Iroquois manage another stunt and unload a knight near our undefended city of Frankfurt. War weariness level one hits us but only corrupt cities are affected.

1395: we build the FP and the Industrialization is one turn away. We capture Chondote but at Cattaraugus we encounter a Cavalry before we get the city. Since the Iroquois empire is crumbling, we open a new front and capture Nineveh.

There is only one way to avoid Frankfurt being captured and that is to have Germany on our side. We build and embassy in Berlin and have them declare war to the Iro in exchange for 4gpt and RoP. In the end I find a couple of unused Cavalries and take back Norwich.

IT: As expected Germany manages to kill the Iroquois knight and removes the danger. To be sure we draft a rifle in Frankfurt. A small Zulu city pledges allegiance to us. We accept. Discover Industrialization.

1400: Start Electricity project and change many cities to factories. Buy the factory of Sparta for a hefty 844 gold. Attack Lagash and generate the second Leader Ajax. Since it would take him many (5) turns to get to Sparta, I turn him into an army and use it to take Lagash. I also take Oka and Mauch Chunk.


Wipe out the Iroquois (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Hkon1400D.sav)

Let's see...that means:

Wizard - to grab the save
mad-bax - warming up
Smellincoffee
Håkon
Yndy

Funny, I had exactly the same text for my url in another SG I'm in - except that I put Spanish instead of Iroquois :)

Ok, got it, I'll play later today, so you'll have time t otell me if there is something I should remember or know before I play the turns.

Looks really good, BTW. :goodjob: 2 leaders in 5 turns? Not bad at all. :)

Oh, and what should be done with the leaders we might get? Should I flip our palace to a city in Old England or should I do something else?

Whoops, I really ment to play it today but I totally forgot...:(

And now it's Christmas time, so I'm not gonna be here until New Year. Skip me if necessary.

Maybe we should put this thread on hold until everyone's back here?

Maybe...or maybe we should just go for conquest and get it over with. At this rate, we'll be playing till Easter 2005 and still not be near a 20K win...and it'd be quite boring micromanagement for the most part...

Yes... The start wasn't as good as possible...

I'm back! :) IMHO we could continue this but I dunno where others are...

I'm 'ere.

Yeah, me too - where's mad-bax, I wonder?

On a holiday, I guess. :) But I hope he'll be back soon...