Civilization: Mayans
Leader: Smoke-Jaguar
Barbs: Restless
Difficult: Demi-god
Map size: Standard
Map type: Mid-land pangea
Climate/temperature/age: Random
Variant: Most Aggressive set for AIs

First map taken.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr11-4000bc.jpg

The worker moves south to scout...and sees a wheat, which is enough for a 4-turn settler factory for an agricultural civ starting on a river, so the settler moves one southwest, too.

Chichen Itza founded in 3950 BC and begins work on a warrior. Alphabet @ max ordered up (which I think turned out to be :smoke: but I wanted to get to Math ASAP to hopefully get a tech first!)

3650 sees the completion of the first warrior and another is started. The first warrior is ordered to explore south, the most likely direction of contact.

In 3450, he found something!!! Not another civ. IVORY!!! [drool] Temple of Zeus. Close enough to our capital to not be terribly corrupt. ME WANT VERY MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!

By 3250, a second warrior is out exploring and he sees a goodie hut. Crossing fingers and toes, I enter...to gain 25 gold. WHEW!

3150 gets us contact with Carthage almost due east of our start, on a chokepoint of land. They will sell us none of their horde of techs and need nothing we know. Bummer.

3100 sees the Ottomans appear very near our capital. We sell Pottery for Bronze Working and 24 gold. Still NO chance at getting Alphabet. Bummer.

We end with a settler who should probably move one south and found between three deers. This guy may well want to build barracks and units for a LONG LONG time. Consider Chichen Itza's current order a chicken build. I didn't know what else to do, so I ordered that. A granary will be needed for a 4-turn settler factory, but it's growing pretty rapidly as is....

We know a bit of the world....
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr11-3000bc.jpg

Whoever signed up in the general LotR thread can claim and play 10 turns now. We'll set order after one go-through. Discussions are welcome and encouraged.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr11-3000bc.zip

Have fun! I'm off to try a quick game.
Arathorn

And so it starts. I spent this evening test-driving the game (Hittites @ Demigod level, with all the new civs), so I'm planning to pick up this game tomorrow evening - around 6pm MST.

If anyone wants to jump in ahead of me, by all means do so.

No game yet. Will be scouting the stores again tommorrow.

Variant: Most Aggressive set for AIs
:eek: The LotR extereme variant series continues.

Hm, looks like some fertile land around, nice :)
Have a nice first round team.

Btw, can someone post the AI-spec. for Demigod-level and the advantages
of the agr. trait?

Agricultural benefits:
- Extra food in the center square of the city (so it's 3/1/? instead of 2/1/?). This bonus food is normally hit by the despotism penalty, but the penalty is waived if the city is by a river (for whatever reason)
- Cheaper aqueducts, recycling, and solar plants (my guess is half price, but I'm not sure)
- Irrigating desert gives +2 food instead of +1, so it functions like an irrigated plains

Demigod-level specs:
I don't really know, for sure. 70% cost factor, extra worker to start??? Haven't checked, sorry.

BTW, make it clear if you are claiming.

@Lee: That was clear in my initial draft for this game, wasn't it? I want a lot of war in this game.

@All: I think our second city should build barracks, and then units for all time -- hopefully lots and lots of javilineers. I want to test out enslavement!!!

For discussion:
-Worth using 4 units to blockade Carthage in to the east of their double-choke?
- Dot map?
- Third city clear south by ivory for Temple of Zeus? Or just try to get there naturally?

Arathorn

@Arathorn - I totally missed the hyper aggressive thing. The current GOTM is in PTW using the demigod settings. I was sweating bullets most of the AA in that one.

With the number of free units at demigod this will get ugly fast. Ancient age UU pretty much insures our GA will be wasted in despotism. :(

I agree with barracks and units like crazy. We are going to need units ASAP.

I believe the Demi-god AI civs receive a bonus settler. Good luck and have fun, guys! I'll be lurkin'.

@Lee The "official" term for Arathorn's variant tendencies is AMIMV (Arathorn Massively Insane Masochistic Variant--or :eek: if you want it even shorter)--though I think this one is just another AMV or AIMV :P--if it were on deity...that would be another story.

San Diego is still asleep at the switch. No C3C for now. If you know a store willing to fedex please let me know. thanx.

Originally posted by Coffee
San Diego is still asleep at the switch. No C3C for now. If you know a store willing to fedex please let me know. thanx.

Amazon.com

Ok, did that. Maybe tommorrow but I doubt it. Thanks again.

Edit: Well no luck. Delivery shows as the 10th. I'll have to keep scouting the stores.

Well I haven't see an official got it.

I am playing right now.

3000 BC (pre-turn)
There is nothing to change.

2950 BC
I have located the Ottoman cities.

2900 BC
Copan is formed by the triple dear spot. If there is a city for pumping out military, this is it. Forming Copan shows a barb in range. I dial up the Ottoman and pay $53 and $3/turn for Burial. That is much better then giving it to barbs.

2800 BC
I can see a brown border across the sea, but can't contact them.

2670 BC
I am shocked as we get the warrior completed in Copan, as the barb never attacked. :confused:

2550 BC
That was an inlet, so the next play should contact the mystery brown civ.


Summary:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-2550BC.zip

This is an OFFICIAL "I got it" :D

(0) Inherited turn.
Well I should have an easy time here, playing after Lee and Arathorn - both of who are harsh critics of any :smoke: moves.
Take a quick look at our two cities, and totally agree with the current build choices. Lee has left me with everything well set-up. We're umm... a little behind in techs, and using a substantial portion of our meagre income keeping our citizens happy - this will be offset once the settler completes in four turns at Chicken-Eats-Ya.

IBT:
Spear/settler pair move out from an undentified Ottoman city.

(1) 2510BC
The interturn played a little too fast, so I switch the animations back on.
Not sure what the warrior SE of Copan is doing, so I'll send him west to fog-bust our territory.
40% luxuries remains enough to keep Chicken-Eats-Ya from rioting (I also note that it's one of those 4-turn settler factories, so I will manage the worker appropriately to get enough shields and +5 food).

IBT:
A guy clad in a pink diaper comes into view.

(2) 2470BC
I contact the man in pink, and suggest that he changes into something a little more... erm... manly. He turns out to be Arabian. The Arabs are up in tech on us by Alphabet, The Wheel, Warrior Code and Mysticism.
Although there is probably a three-fer available, I cannot trade due to lack of funds (currently 43 gold + 2 gold/turn).

IBT:
Chicken-Eats-Ya spits out a settler, I order up a worker.

(3) 2430BC
I'm going to send the settler to grab the Ivory SW of Copan, getting us a badly needed luxury (and I believe Ivory is required for the Statue of Zeus).
I'm able to drop luxuries to 20%, but only gain 1 gold/turn out of it. I'm still unable to trade for any techs.

IBT:

(4) 2390BC
Our warrior moves up to the "Mystery brown civ" mentioned by a previous ruler.
Luxuries back to 30% as Chicken-Eats-Ya grows to 5.

IBT:
Chicken-Eats-Ya builds worker, starts settler.

(5) 2350BC
Luxuries back to 20%.
Contact the "Mystery brown civ", who turns out to be Russia. After admiring Catherine's "great beauty", I duly note that she has Alphabet, Iron Workng, Warrior code and The Wheel.
Arabia also has Iron Working now.
We are deep in the hole for tech, so I'll need to keep up the city building in an attempt to get enough cash to catch up.
There is a barbarian on a mountain not too far from where I want to put city #3 - as long as he remains fortified I won't be worried.

IBT:

(6) 2310BC
Attack a barbarian warrior. Our warrior is redlined, but promotes to veteran. His move reveals a barbarian camp on a hill two tiles away.

IBT:
The barbarian camp is destroyed by an Arab warrior.
Capan completes barracks, starts spearman.

(7) 2270BC
Chicken-Eats-Ya is fully set up for 4-turn settler production, the next one to appear in two turns.
Luxuries to 30%.

IBT:

(8) 2230BC
Palenque founded next to ivory. Barracks started.
I'm still unable to trade for Iron Working or Mysticism, both of which would help considerably towards catching up in techs.

IBT:
Chicken-Eats-Ya builds settler, starts another.

(9) 2190BC
I send our latest settler towards the coast, ESE of Chicken-Eats-Ya.
Luxuries to 20%.
Chicken-Eats-Ya autosets to 5 food/turn + 7 shields/turn. When it grows it should auto-assign 9 shields/turn to produce a 4-turn settler. I see no reason to change this for the forseeable future (although an extra MP will help with luxury tax).

IBT:

(10) 2150BC
Move the settler. He is now one tile from his settling target (across the river and on the coast).

The Arabs have Mysticism, which could form part of a two-fer for Iron working from Russia. This (and other trades with the rest of the civs) would help us catch up on tech, but we are woefully short of cash right now.
Chicken-Eats-Ya is set up as a four turn settler factory. I recommend keeping things that way.

Our fledgling empire:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-2150BC.jpg

And the save file - 2150BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-2150BC.zip)

Not sure what the warrior SE of Copan is doing

He had just finished fog busting in that area. :D

Nice turns, Lee and Steve. I like getting the second worker out of Chichen Itza. Nice job both of you on the 4-turn settler factory. Four contacts, too, is a nice start -- that'll help tech prices down the line.

Without looking at the save, I would like to suggest the following....

Acquire warrior code however we can (without shooting ourselves in the foot -- it should be cheap) and start javilineers after the current spear build in Copan. Farm barbs for workers as MUCH as possible -- free labor is a major benefit of our UU and we'll want to make as much of that as is possible (war with another civ or two later is a distinct possibility but barb slaves work very nicely).

Let's get a dot map going. I'll try over the weekend if there's not been discussion before then.

Have our new city's first build be a curragh and let's go hunting for even more contacts.

Keep the exploring warriors out exploring for a LONG time -- my solo game is IA and they just finished a few turns ago. The exploration is worth more than the MP or the upkeep saved.

Keep up the :smoke:-free turns!

Roster:
Arathorn
LKendter
Arizona_Steve
Coffee -- in the sad San Diego area
Belisar -- needs a week at least

Looks like there'll be a bit of a time lapse now. Once Coffee plays, though, we might skip Belisar for ONE ROUND and be sure to catch him the second time around. Depends on how exciting/interesting the game situation.

Arathorn

At some point we're going to have to start escorting settlers to their destination (I nearly always play "Sedentary" barbarians, so through force of habit I neglected to do this).

I know lee likes this setting too, so just a simple reminder, or someone's going to lose a settler...

On city placement: My thoughts were to get the first ring going as soon as possible. As for specific sites, the aforementioned "Across the river" site for the current settler, and also I would recommend settling ON the tobacco to the W of Chicken-Eats-Ya - it'll waste no tiles (I dare someone to rename our capital, I can just imagine Lee's face turning red while he jumps up and down :lol: ).

That would complete our first ring of cities that are next to rivers. There are a couple of other first-ring sites - one is three tiles NE and one tile North of the capital, by the coast in unexplored territory (looks like a hill - and I'm assuming there's coast there), the second would be three tiles due West of the capital, also on the coast.

Nice opening turns, hope to check in in the second round.
No game, so no dotmap from me but I like Arathorn's idea of blocking of Hanni, maybe with well guarded city on the hills south and one or two extra units.

Ah uh I'm getting one. San Diego is draged kicking and screaming into the real world. Conquest has arrived. Will have a copy later today.

I believe the ring formula for corruption has been corrected in C3C. So corruption is a brand new problem again.

I believe the RCP correction was to subsort by founding date/time, so that the city founded earlier (even if in the same turn) has the lower corruption and the later city has its city number after the one founded before it.

E.g. Found capital. Found city A at distance 4. Found city B at distance 7. Found city C and D (in that order) at distance 4 in the same turn.

Capital has city number 1 for corruption. A has city # 2. C has city #3. D has city #4. And B has city #5.

Destruction of cities, re-founding, capturing might mix things up a bit as it might be internal order and not founding order (which don't always match), but founding order is a good place to start.

I will continue to follow my general principle of founding in the best spots given the land lay-out and letting the chips fall where they may.

They also increased the OCN some...but I'm not certain how much. Means you can have a bit larger area before being effected. Makes OCC and 5CCs harder, and adds even more to the "bigger is better" that it seemed they were trying to get away from but can't escape. [My guess is, too many complaints about corruption and too few of us who liked it the way it was (once they added OCN change to courthouses and gave police stations the same ability) with kudos.]

@coffee: Great news. Welcome to the USA! :p We'll expect you to play soonest. :D

Arathorn

Haven't started as such. completed some trades and started a dot map. Will try to settle the iron site first.

Turn - 0

2150BC - 0
Trade 65g + 1gpt to Carthage for Alphabet.
Trade Alphabet to Osman for Mysticism + WC + 30g.
Sell Mysticism to Carthage for 100g.
Trade Mysticism + 125g to Russia for IW.
Trade IW to Osman for Wheel + 177g

We have tech parity. Any dot map comments welcomed.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Lotr10-2150S.jpg

2150BC - 0
Trade 65g + 1gpt to Carthage for Alphabet.
Trade Alphabet to Osman for Mysticism + WC + 30g.
Sell Mysticism to Carthage for 100g.
Trade Mysticism + 125g to Russia for IW.
Trade IW to Osman for Wheel + 177g

2110BC - 1
The next settler can get to the iron sooner than the existing. I decide to move the settler forward to the tobacco site. I don't want Osman close to our capital. Start math, can't boost research to 40t until ivory is hooked up.

2070 - 2
Bust the fog and find more iron.

2030 - 3
Chichén Itza settler -> settler

1990BC - 4

1950BC - 5
Lose a warrior to the barbs.
Russia & Carth are up wrtiting.

1910 - 6
Spot a blue bdy.

1870 - 7
Tikal settled -> tobacco
Chichén Itza settler -> settler

1830BC - 8
Yaxchilán settled -> Iron
Meet Korea -> up poly & writing.
Ivory connects luxury rate to 10%
Trade Arabia 220g & 2gpt for writing
Trade Osman writing for poly & 13g
Sell poly around for 120g.
Arabia & Carth are up map making.

Note: I increased research, math now due in 24t, vetoable. I wanted to try for Philosophy to get the free tech but I doubt that I have a chance.

1790BC - 9

1750 BC - 10
Bonampak settled -> on river, our only port.
Chichén Itza riots -> lux & resrch adjusted.

Copán needs an mp then maybe can reduce the tax.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-1750BC.SAV)

Dot map looks pretty good to me -- pretty ambitious, too, but I like that. The north might get switched around some, too, depending what's up there.

Letting CI riot, though?!? That's pure :smoke: -- it really hurts our 4-turn settler factory. This early, you gotta watch the big city/cities.

And is nobody heeding my call for javilineers to go barb (and other AI) hunting? Spears are nice and all, but I want to try out the UU. And the AI civs will be coming for us sooner or later.

I guess, though, since I'm up next, I'll get to decide. I'll skip Belisar once, but if his place comes around again before next Monday (the 17th), we'll just have to wait for him. I want him to be a part of this.

I'll probably play tomorrow -- my failing Sid OCC game will occupy the rest of tonight, if I play more.

@Coffee: PLEASE zip your save files. Not only does it save those of us who download over phone lines some time, it more importantly protects the integrity of the upload/download process. Dealing with pure .SAVs is kind of annoying, too.

Arathorn

Gotta love those coffee-bean cities :D

On zip files & CI rioting -> my bad :( I expected happiness to hold up with the Ivory, did not check.

The cities in the north are fitted. I expected them to move. It a thing about overlap.And is nobody heeding my call for javilineers to go barb (and other AI) hunting? Spears are nice and all, but I want to try out the UU. And the AI civs will be coming for us sooner or later. It was cheaper to let the spear complete and do escort duty before switching. Two javilineers have completed. One is in the south moving toward the barb camp.

Looking forward to playing with Belisar again also. We've played a lot of SG's together it seems.

Thanx Sky. I got a kick out of making that dot map.

I didn't even think of trading for Alphabet. I was looking at trades for Iron Working and/or Mysticism, thinking that they would be the most expensive techs (being second tier).

Nice one Coffee...

Inherited turn: Change Palenque to pre-build. I want to maximize, as much as possible, the Temple of Zeus.

Note with interest that at 7.0.3, we have a riot in Chichen Itza, but at 6.1.3, we don't. Must be a rounding thing, and it might have caught Coffee. Set it to 6.1.3.

1725 is boring movement.

1700 -- Decide a third worker out of C.I. is absolutely called for. Two workers and 7 cities isn't a really good idea, long-term. So I go to worker.
(I) Hannibal demands 25 gold. What, you think because you have a 2/3/1 unit, a large army compared to us, and a tech lead, that we're going to roll over and cave to your demands? You're right. We will. Here's the 25 gold. Thank you, sir, may I have another?

1675 -- Nothing happens.

1650 -- Send a javilineer against a barb camp (Ottomans coming up from other side, so there was no real chance to farm for more opportunities)...and....
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr11-enslave.jpg

:):D:)

(5) 1625 -- Lagartero founded in the north. I actually went with Coffee's spot. I hated founding on a hill instead of on tundra, but it got us a whale, covered the area better, and just made more sense. I was getting paranoid about open land so near the capital...and Lagatero should have good production capabilities, being so near the capital. We *might* lose out on another city spot because of it, but I wanted to be a bit extra cautious. We're doing fine on the landgrab, and I don't want to stick our necks out too far.
Then, I turned science down to zero. So I could...
5 gpt and 74 gold to Carthage for Mathematics...change Palenque to Statue of Zeus.
Math to Russia for Philosophy and 9 gold
Math and Philosophy to Arabia for Map Making and 15 gold.
Ottomans too poor to afford anything, so they're still these three techs down. Nobody is ahead of us! CHEER!
I then start a min run on Literature. The AIs will sometimes ignore this tech. @50 turns, it's costing 100 beakers/gold, so it might not be worth it, but I wanted to start it anyway. If we purchase Lit, the beakers will discount us a bit of gold, anyway, so it shouldn't be :smoke:.

(6) 1600 - Note that Arabia and Korea are at war -- I watch them fight. That's gotta be good news for us.
Also note with disgust that the Carthaginians made it past the choke I was targetting. Choke it anyway.

(8) 1550 - Contact with Greece! They get Philosophy for all their 48 gold...then the Ottomans feel my pity and get Philosophy for all their 40 gold. And we're two techs up on those 2 and on par with everyone else.

(10) Lagerno's citizens get confused and think their warrior is actually a worker and move him out to "improve" their bonus grass square. The next leader might want to correct this oversight....
Tikal is on a temple to expand its borders and get another bonus grass in range for Palenque.

Short-term...I see three or four more cities. Two in the south and one southeast of Copan, plus maybe one more up by the north choke to Carthage. Plus, keep the exploration going, ignoring enemy borders (Arabia, probably) as is necessary/convenient. Explore south. We got one more civ to find!

Mid-term...WAR!!! We have two neighbors. One has contact with lots of people and is a near-leader in the game, plus has a nice UU in the ancient age. The other is a long-term threat with perhaps the scariest UU of all. So...I'm thinking the Ottomans must go -- stack of 8ish javilineers with 3-5 'pults and I think we could get a city or two, plus a slave or 4 and start hampering their progress significantly, while helping us out.

Long-term...eliminate Ottomans first, then start killing everybody else in their turn. Longbows and muskets/pikes should actually make a good pairing for offensives (0-range bombard of the bows helps defense, too), and we can do what we need to.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr11-1500bc.zip

Arathorn

Originally posted by Arathorn

1650 -- Send a javilineer against a barb camp (Ottomans coming up from other side, so there was no real chance to farm for more opportunities)...and....
:D Seems like a nice UU.

I agree with Arathorn, let's try to block Hanni and take it to the Ottos as soon as possible, we don't want to face any Sipahis.

One bad thing with going after Arathorn - The save is Smoke-Jaguar, not LOTR11. With the number of games I play this is bound to cause me confusion. Even this turn I wasted time because of the name...

1500 BC (pre-turn)
The challenge is to explore more with the Javelin throwers to hope to gain a few more workers.

1425 BC
Our Javelin thrower sucks wind and dies attacking a warrior. :(
What is worse it that our settler has to retreat.
Two workers are available for sale. I don't know what Arathorn's early worker purchase rule is, so I passed as the LK series doesn't allow them this early.
(I) The Oracle and Colossus are both completed.

1400 BC
(I) Another Javelin thrower almost dies on defense on a hill, but he gains a worker on DEFENSE!

1350 BC
Quirigua is formed. Calakmul is formed one from the lake, as it is NOT fresh water. This avoids any cultural overlap.

1350 BC
(I) - I am really tempted to tell the Arabs to shove it since they are already a war, but with an AA UU I cave as I hate a despotism GA.


Summary:
We badly need to get another city on military production.
Watch that Ottoman settler. I want that second iron source!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-1250BC.zip

Sorry, Lee. I'll try to name the save LotR11 in the future. I actually prefer using the default names, but I usually change my leader names for SGs to make them stand out a bit. To each his own.

Boy, this game is moving right along.

Can Tikal go to military? No barracks and just crank out catapults for a while? Is our military factory up to 10 spt yet? Seems like it should make that about now.

Once we get our last city/cities formed, Chichen Itza could go to military, too, to help provide what we need. And Palenque is on military -- just a different sort, IMO.

Nice turns as usual, Lee.

Arathorn

My rule is to purge everything that isn't a SG name. I save every turn, sometimes more (late world map, just got a leader, etc). I had to recover the save from the recyle bin before I played.

I would like several more workers from Chichen Itza before we go military. Even if all they do is merge with food poor cities we need to take advantage of our only food heavy source.

Damn you guys are fast!! Consider this a "Got it".

Like Lee, I had figured that the Javelin Thrower could only enslave when attacking. I found out earlier this morning the the enslavement also worked on defence.

(0) Inherited turn
I see the Ottoman settler problem. He's actually one move ahead of our settler. If he settles where he's standing, that's OK. I hope he's not after that iron too.
Texhwise, Korea is up Monarchy, Russia is up Code of Laws, Greece is down Mathematics and the Ottomans are down Mathematics and Map Making. Since there seems to be a consensus that we should attack the Ottomans at some point, I will try to avoid any per-turn trades with them.
Gotta love those slave workers!
I see a settler next to Copan - I'm going to assume he's headed to the coast South of Calukmal.

IBT:
Uh-oh - the Ottoman settler/spear pair moves East, next to the iron.
Arabia whines about our "uninvited guests". I promise to move them.
Tikal builds temple, starts Barracks.
Korea builds the Pyramids in Seoul.

(1) 1225BC
As the Ottoman settler pair is right next to the iron, the only thing I can do is take a chance that the AI will be REALLY stupid and not settle this turn.
The Ottomans have acquired Monarchy. A trade like this would be too good to pass up for the brokering opportunities, but Map Making + Mathematics + 277 gold + 10 gold/turn gets us to "Close to a deal" - this is at 3rd Civ.

IBT:
Ottomans settle next to the iron. There was little I could do :(
Abu kicks our troops out of their territory.
Chicken-Eats-Ya builds worker, starts another.
Copan builds a Javeling thrower, starts another.

(2) 1200BC
I'm forced to withdraw the settler from what is now Ottoman territory. He's going to settle on the deer (I know that doesn't sound good, but it will get us a horse and an ivory after border expansion).
I fortify our latest Javalin thrower in Copan and can drop luxury tax to 30%.
Time for a little cursing, as the Ottomans have traded for Map-making and Mathematics, but didn't appear to get any additional tech. A couple of other civs have Monarchy now. No-one will trade Monarchy to us.

IBT:
Korea starts the Mausoleum. Several civs are already working on the Temple of Artemis and the Hanging Gardens.

(3) 1175BC

IBT:
Chicken-Eats-Ya builds worker, starts barracks.
Korea starts the Great Lighthouse.

(4) 1150BC
Lazapa founded. Starts temple.
Still unable to trade for Monarchy (and two-fer for Code of Laws).

IBT:
We get the Forbidden Palace pop-up.

(5) 1125BC
Kaminaljuyú founded. Starts warrior.

IBT:
Copan completes Javalin thrower, starts another.

(6) 1100BC
We contact the Mystery eight civ - it turns out to be Egypt, and Cleo is behind by Mathematics, Philosophy and Map Making. But she has Monarchy! Woohoo!
I trade her Mathematics + Philosophy + Map Making + 180 gold for Monarchy.
Monarchy goes to Greece for Code of Laws + 151 gold.
Monarchy goes to Russia for 119 gold. I would rather see us getting the money than someone else.
Carthage gets an Embassy. They're building a Numidian, and have another three already present as garrison.
Russia gets an Embassy in Moscow. They are building the Statue of Zeus, and have two spearmen for garrison.
It's nice to see a happy face on the Foreign Advisor screen.
Looking at the available military alliances, it seems that Russia hasn't heard of the Ottomans.

IBT:
Bonampak completes our first galley, starts a temple. This can be vetoed in favour of a barracks if military is more important.

(7) 1075BC
Carthage has a monopoly on Construction.

IBT:
Ugh! The Ottoman scum demand Code of Laws. OK Mate, but we're coming for you... :hammer:

(8) 1050BC
Now that I'm able to look at the Military Advisor, I see that the Ottomans are only "Average" compared to us. Maybe I should've told them to shove it.

IBT:
Carthage drags Egypt into their war against Arabia.

(9) 1025BC
I find out that it's possible to tell who's in contact with who by checking the lines on the Foregn Advisor screen. Easier than checking available Military Alliances.

IBT:
Copan pops another Javalin Thrower. I'm going to set this to (vetoable) settler, as I would go for an aggressive settlement on the hill West of Rusicade (Carthage). I have a javalin thrower marking the spot there.

(10) 1000BC
Put luxury tax to 40% for 1 turn as Chicken-Eats-Ya grows to size 7. A spearman will complete there on the interturn, and the tax can be dropped back to 30%.
Carthage still has the monopoly on Construction, but we have 468 gold in the bank.
Feel free to veto the settler at Copan, if the team doesn't like the idea of settling aggressively near Rusicade.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-1000BC.jpg

The Save - 1000BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-1000BC.zip)

I see it but can't get to it until I finish my MLDR03 turns. Nice turns Steve.

Scary news...that you seemed to just blow right by. The Russian capital, Moscow, is building the Statue of Zeus. My hope was to use the ivory near us to get the Statue going in OUR territory.... But I doubt we can beat their capital, even getting us going as quickly and as early as I did. Did you happen to notice the # of turns remaining on that build, Steve?

If Ottomans only have an "average" military compared to us, we should be thinking about war with them relatively soon. I'd put Copan back on military builds and use specialists when necessary. I imagine the relative military strength will only get worse....

Arathorn

If I can investigate I will. If they win then I'll swap to the FP. I was going to start a war on my turns right after anarachy.

Hmm, the Ottos in our first ring AND near the 2nd iron, two more reasons they must go..

A question: If you compare the current game to typical PTW games, is it more closer to Emperor or Deity in AI expansion/growth/tech-pace (will depend very much if they have a 2nd settler..)

@Belisar. Closer to emperor for expansion and closer to diety for tech speed, but guess that the tech pace is still matchable. DemiGod might make an interesting space race. On production I'm guessing emperor. The most noticable difference is in how closely the units are balanced. This will not be an easy war. My thoughts.

1000 - 0
Check Moscow has 28 turns to go -> see screen shot
Might get Zeuss with GA, 29t to go

Turns 1 - 4 Anarchy, I cave to Korea.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Mscow1000bc.jpg

875 - 5
We are a Monarchy
Zeuss is 23 turns was 29 at turn 0
mm cities

850 - 6
Ok, we are lookin good.

825 - 7
Carthage asks for an MA against Arabia, I decline.

800 - 8
Russia completes Zeuss -> the cascade takes out everything except the Great Lighthouse.
Osman get the Great Wall
Palenque changed to FP.

775 - 9
Delared war on Ottomans. They wouldn't give us construction.
Carthage is the tech leader and is up 4 techs. HB, Constr, Rep, Currency.
I haven't made any trades -> waiting on GA.

750 - 10
zzz

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Lotr1-750BC.jpg

Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-750BC.zip)

Some after thoughts.

Russia is building the Great Library. I noticed that a leader can rush the palace. Thats 400 shields. So a good short rush for wonders. Suggest going for the GL. Good luck, I assume Belisar is up until the 14th.

A lurker comment here;

Not sure if they've changed this for Conquests, but previously you cannot short-rush a wonder. In fact, if you've done any kind of rushing whatsoever, either whip, cash, forest-chop, or unit disband, that city CANNOT switch to a wonder until you have finished construction of the non-wonder item you rushed or short-rushed.

Just be careful...you might end up rushing the Palace only to find that it will not let you switch to the wonder...and then you have to either let the Palace build there, or build an expensive Temple/Marketplace/WhatHaveYou

Hasn't been changed- found out from experience.

No game here for a few more days :(

It seems likely that Russia got an SGL and used that to finish off Statue of Zeus quickly. Bummer. But an early FP in a pretty good location is a nice "consolation" prize. A MGL to rush the palace in what is now the Ottoman lands would help ease the pain of the SoZ loss considerably.

I would've been surprised if short-rushing wonders or the palace had been changed to be allowed. A nice big AW game will be required to see how the changes in MGLs and wonders and armies will all play out. I want to do that, too, but I'm already WAY over-committed for SGs (just signed up for a possible fourth, when my limit is normally 2 :eek:). It will be interesting to see the effects of the changes on AW. But AW games are so time-intensive....

BTW, one also receives a commece bonus from captured wonders. Apparently, tourists don't care whether you built or captured the thing -- they just want to see it! :lol: Something to keep in mind for this game.

Now, we mustn't lose momentum in this game in the intervening week. Some issues we might discuss:
- Raze and replace or capture?
- Sign Carthage in on our side as an insurance policy?
- Go for cripple, kill, or prune and techs?
- Mixed troops or nearly exclusively our UU?

Arathorn

P.S. At least we have iron in this game. My solo games have either had no iron or iron directly by a very close enemy. Add in two starts sharing an island with only one foe and I'm not having good luck on deity in C3C so far.

Now, we mustn't lose momentum in this game in the intervening week.
:confused:

Why is this going nowhere for a week?

Belisar. Austria. RoW release the 14th. Figure stores the 15th but that's a Saturday, so you can't count on it. Stores 17th. Belisar can pick it up then...and he's up now. If he can get it earlier, GREAT!

Arathorn

@ falsfire & Smellincoffee. I was thinking that small wonder shields generated from a leader would be available for a great wonder. The palace is often used as a prebuild. Rushing an improvement and then switching to the palace is not possible I know. But there is a small distinction between the two. Anywho I have spent the hour leader fishing but no luck as yet. Will post when I know more.

Edit: I generated a leader but could not use the palace shields as a down payment for a great wonder. :eek: Thanx for that note.

Perhaps best to skip me a second time with Saturday the first day C&C is (hopefully) available to keep the game moving and all interested.

Thanks, Belisar. That is really very generous of you. That puts me up. I guess I get to fight the Ottomans. [party] [dance]

Got it. Will play tonight.

Arathorn

Made some progress, but I am fearing for our position. It started out great, but I had one turn where luck was horrible, changing our situation for the worse....

(0) 750 - Lit from Russia for 152 gold
Lit +217 gold + 3gpt to Egypt for Currency
Lit + Currency to Arabia for Horseback Riding plus 2 Egyptian slaves (no seed corn there!)
Move more troops towards the front.

(1) 730 Maneveur.
(I) Russia demands and gets 20 gold
(2) 710 - Lots of action by Sinop. Attack with a javilineer and
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr11-golden.jpg
Then Chichen Itza can reach a spear/turn and our military factory clears 15 spt.

(4) 670 - Another enslavement and our first palace expansion.

(5) 650 - Highpoint in capturing Konya.
(I) Cave to Arabia for 22 gold, despite the fact that they're at war with much of the known world.

(9) 570 - Lose swords attacking wounded spears and swords. 3 javilineers fail to finish off a wounded spear in the north. Offensive thrusts fall apart.

(I) FP completes.
And Korea is on a sneak-attack vector.

(10) 550 - Defend borders, begin retreating from Ottoman space. Koreans will definitely sneak attack somebody soon -- probably us but it could be the Ottomans.

I would recommend sending troops to Calakmul en masse ASAP and considering peace with Ottomans to get us into the Middle Ages. I think we may be facing east very soon. If Korea does attack, sign Carthage in to an alliance, so we only have to deal with their initial troops.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr11-550bc.zip

Arathorn

I've noticed a change in the predictability of the game. Its not the same but similar. And thats just from Monarch games. I don't know that I can put it into words but the term "more aggresive" has been used with authority. Given that plus the maximum aggression settings, I'm not surprised to see some serious almost AWD warring.

550 BC (pre-turn)
Well depending on Korea our war with the Ottomans could end shortly. It appears I will have to continue to use on GA on military - not my preferred infrastructure push.

(I) :wallbash: Our iron source just vaporized. :wallbash:

530 BC
Because of the iron disaster I am force to continue the war vs. the Ottomans even though the odds are 90% of a Korean attack.

We add more free labor thanks to the Ottomans.

I dial up Korea and buy Construction for $27/turn. I gag as I find the AI has all of the first level Middle Ages techs. I dial up Greece and give him Construction, Currency and Literature for Republic and $12. I hold of the revolution, as I don't want multiple turns of anarchy during of GA.

Arabia is frelled, so I ship him Republic for 3 workers.
(I) Gee, what a "surprise" - Korea declares war. I should have Borrowed some gold also.

510 BC
I have no choice - at $26/turn is it very expensive, but I sign Carthage into an alliance versus Korea. I can't fight a war without iron. I then send Russia $23/turn to join the party. We may go bankrupt at the end of our GA, but not signing these alliances equals major problems for us.
(I) :crazyeye: Arabia and Russia ally vs. Korea. The Arabs have a death wish.
Russia and Carthage ally vs. Arabia?
We lose Kaminaljyuy to Korea.
Our people celebrate by expanding our palace. I would really celebrate the loss of a city - our people are strange.

490 BC
I establish an embassy with Egypt trying to figure out what is going on with them. Thebes is size 11 with 5 clowns!
(I) Greece and Russia ally vs. Arabia.
It goes from bad to worse as Egypt allies with Korea vs. us.
Greece declares war on Carthage.

450 BC
I take Sinop - we have iron again. However, this city is an extreme flip risk with Kafa so close. I realize I am gambling, but Korea alone is causing major headaches. I sign peace with the Ottomans for $104 and $15/turn.

390 BC
(I) The disaster continues as Korea captures Calakmul.

370 BC
Uh guys, we are fighting Korea Longbows!
We recover Calakmul, but the assault on Kaminaljyuy fails badly. The new archers are much harder to kill.

Since Carthage has a port connected, I sell them Ivory for $170.
(I) We spot our first Egyptian unit crossing our borders.

350 BC
Our borders are free of Koreans; however we still have a city to recover.

Summary:
Remember - our gpt will go negative after the GA ends. Keep plenty of can on hand.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-350BC.zip

wow :eek:

Got it... Looks like there's fun to be had here...

We take two Ottoman cities and have to pay them? Or did they pay us? Lee, your notes aren't clear on that. I would hope they paid us, since they had no alliances against us.

Bummer on the iron exhaustion. A source to sell would've been extremely handy.

As long as Carthage is on our side, we have a reasonable chance, I would think. I expect to see essentially no more Koreans after their initial push. I'd check on Carthage's price to ally against Egypt, too. I'd rather see all the AI's units go to fighting each other and not against us, but ..... We should be able to handle ONE foe at a time.

With all this warring, we might find Monarchy an easier government to use than Republic. Not sure....

And are our horses connected? I found the lack of at least one unit that could attack and retreat a severe detriment to my military plans. That should be a priority, if not done already.

I think a reasonable expectation is to recover our lost city and then hold the line(s) for a while.

Good luck and have fun!
Arathorn

We are sucking the money out of the Ottomans - they are paying us> :D

I connected the horses during my turns, and even build a few.

Not sure about the correct gov.
That's the easy thing about AW, you just know that Monarchy is the correct gov.
In this game, we will fight a lot but we will also sign a lot of peace treaties.
Maybe we can use Republic later in the game when lux-sources and happy-infrastructure are up.
After all, we did fine with Monarchy in MLDR03 on deity. If we have enough cities, troop support will be an issue and Monarchy will get closer to Republic in terms of income.

(0) Inherited Turn
Oh man... Where are the troops? Fortunately there's a bunch of goodies about to complete, so hopefully this situation won't last too long.
I'm going to let the worker complete in Konya, then swap it to a temple. It's under cultural pressure from Iznik, but hopefully it's proximity to our capital wil prevent it from flipping before I get some culture there.
Main goal is to take back Kaminaljuyu from the smelly Koreans.
We only have military alliances against Korea, so I could make peace with Egypt without affecting our reputation. Let's see if I can do that. They refuse to talk right now.

IBT:
Alexander builds an embassy in our capital.

(1) 330BC
There are two Egyptian war chariots and a horse, plus a Korean longbow next to Kaminaljuyu.
I shuffle a bunch of troops around, then see what I'm left with.
With two available catapaults, I take one hitpoint off the regular Egyptian horseman in the mountain, and another hitpoint of a vetaran longbow.
Take out one war chariot and the longbow, and force a second war chariot to retreat.

IBT:
Cleo comes forth and offers a peace treaty for 40 gold. I'm more than happy to take the deal, as it kills Egypt's reputation by breaking their Military Alliance with Korea.
Carthage, Russia and Greece begin Sun Tzu's.
Egypt completes the Great Library in Heliopolis.
Korea lands an archer next to Lagartero.

(2) 310BC
In an act of mild desperation I'm forced to move two slaves to block the Korean archer from Chichen Itza, and upgrade the warrior at Lagartero to a sword. At best we're going to lose a slave worker, at worst, Lagartero.
Move a stack of troops and 9 catapaults next to Kaminaljuyu.

IBT:
The Korean archer attacks Lagartero. The RNG Gods smile upon us and our swordsman is victorious, taking no damage. Even better than my "best case" scenario above.
Our Golden Age ends. We still make 7 gold per turn.
The bad news is that Chichen Itza riots. It didn't grow, so I assume it's due to a decrease in commerce because of our Golden Age ending. I shift one citizen to a river tile and am able to get away with one entertainer.
I scroll forward through our cities and hire specialists to avoid further riots. I hope this is not considered an exploit.
Korea begins Leonardo's, so they're up to at least Invention.

(3) 290BC
Bombard the two spearman defenders in Kaminaljuyu down to 1 hit point, and take them out with a horseman and a javelin thrower (no slave). Kaminaljuyu is Mayan again.
Having achieved my main objective, I decide it's time for some infrastructure, so many cities are switched to Marketplace.
Mess around with the luxury slider a bit, but decide to keep the specialists, as we do at least have a positive +10 gold/turn cashflow with them around.
Shift some troops towards the coast to guard against Korean troop landings.
I buy Engineering from Egypt for 740 Gold (Russia had a slightly better price, but they're loaded with cash).
I complete the two-fer by buying Monotheism from Greece for Engineering + 50 gold.
50-turn research started on Fuedalism.
Switch a number of cities to Cathedrals - we could really do with some happy pills here.

IBT:
Order restored in Chichen Itza.
Egypt begins Leonardo's.

(4) 270BC
A quiet turn, which consisted mostly of shuffling troops around, and getting our coasts covered in case of Korean landings.

IBT:
Egypt is brought into the war against Korea by Carthage :) They also start building Sistine's.

(5) 250BC
I move a swordsman and a horseman into Copan, which allows me to put the resident Elvis back to work.
Chichen Itza grew to size 12 last turn, so I add a javelin thrower to keep them happy. Add a swordsman, and the Elvis there becomes a scientist. I also start mining the hill and planting forests there, to improve the food/shield ratio.
Science goes to 0%, and we make 25 gold/turn.

IBT:
Chichen Itza and Palenque complete temples. They start a cathedral and a marketplace respectively.
Korea lands a spearmen on our Northern shore. Pity I have troops waiting there...

(6) 230BC
There's one less Korean spearman in the World. I get some catapaults into Bonampak and redline a passing Korean galley.
Switch the taxman in Yaxchilan to a scientist and put the scientist in Chichen Itza back to work.

IBT:
Lagartero completes harbor, starts aquaduct.
Egyptian troops move into our territory, I assume they're on their way to Korea.

(7) 210BC
Another quiet turn. Looks like Korea is being kept busy. I am taking full advantage of this to build infrastructure.

IBT:
Uh-oh. Korea brings Greece into the war against us. It'll be a while before their troops get here though. While they're at it, they declare war on Egypt too.
Copan builds temple, start cathedral.
Quirigua riots, I missed the population growth. One taxman hired.
Our palace gets a second floor (gotta put those rioting citizens to some use)

(8) 190BC
Temple rushed in Sinop. I'd hate to see us lose iron to a flip.
Keep checking for a Theology/Feudalism swap (hoping to also get Invention in the deal).

IBT:
Korea and Carthage sign a peace treaty. Our gold per turn goes up to 51.

(9) 170BC
Carthage is still polite with us.
I'm still unable to purchase Theology, though to be fair, only two civs have it.

IBT:
Korea requests an audience. Due to our alliance with Russia, I refuse.
Carthage brings Egypt in against Arabia.

(10) 150BC
Another quiet turn.

We're currently at war with Korea and Greece, although I think we're not the only ones that Greece is at war with. Anyway, their units might start appearing in about five turns or so.
Lots of infrastructure builds underway, particularly cathedrals to help with our happiness and luxury tax.
Watch out for the possible three-fer involving Feudalism, Theology and Invention.

Our world, circa 150BC

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-150BC.jpg

And the save file... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-150BC.zip)

The Ottomans are looking yummy :devil2: Do they have luxuries? Shall we continue a war on 2 civs with Russia and Carthage as allies or ?. Perhaps this might be a good time to answer Arathorns questions...got it

As long as we're not fighting Carthage right now, I'm not TOO worried about foes from the east -- although stopping Korea's initial troops took a fair bit of effort, nicely done Lee and Steve. Greek troops might struggle to get to us, but we'll need to keep our eyes open.

In regards to a Feudalism and others 2 or 3fer, since Feudalism now has a government associated with it (a kinda bad one, to be sure), the AI evaluates it ridiculously high and it's quite hard to purchase. That's something to keep in mind.

We are required to observe the full 20 turns of peace from the Ottomans. We got hard goods (and some per turn goods) from them as part of the peace settlement, so we need to observe the full peace treaty. At that point? Well, it might be worth warring with them again -- take another couple bites from them.

My personal take is to make peace with the east as soon as our alliance with Russia expires, while starting war with the Ottomans again when they come to renew the peace treaty (which they will do, since there's a per-turn part to it). I do think that gives us a couple turns overlap at war with three civs, but we can make peace with Greece as soon as they will talk to us and not kill our rep.

My main concern at this point is Russia turning into a 500lb gorilla, since they have the rather broken Statue of Zeus, quite a bit of land, and could be scary. Don't take them too lightly.

Also, since we're agricultural, aqueducts are cheaper for us (50 shields only, I think), so Quirigua and Yaxchilan should build them soon (I would even consider switching off of the current temple builds, but those might need to complete first). Aqueducts are a "can't wait" infrastructure for agricultural civs.

And don't forget to upgrade our 'pults to trebuchets. The extra bombard strength does make a difference.

Good luck and have fun Coffee.
Arathorn

150BC - 0
There is still 5 turns of peace left with Osman & 2 alliance turns with Russia & 9 turns of Ivory to Carthage.
Set cities without markets to markets as we can trade at 70gpt. Swap Chichen to a colosseum & rush. Will start the unspellable capital on spears as some unhappiness can be sovlved with mps & we are 20spt there. Shift troops forward to Ottoman line for mp duty.

A lot seems to have changed in conqusts. Will see how this works.

130BC - 1
Chichen colosseum -> spear
Mp's in place drop lux to 20% hire 3 specialists.

110BC - 2
Rush the market in Copan. Has an entertainer.

90BC - 3
Move sword out of Copan, keep the entertainer.
Chichen spear every turn.
Our alliance ends with Russia.
I sign Rops with Carthage & Russia for insurance.
Trade 84gpt & 120g for Theology & Fuedalism. Korea has had a change of heart and will no longer take peace straight up. I wait. We are now building pikes.

70BC - 4
zzz

50BC - 5
Two more markets complete.
Invention & Education are up.

30BC - 6
Osman offers 20t of peace, I decline and get an automatic war.
We lose our gpt.
We are in a 3 way war with Osman, Greece & Korea.
Start on Chivalry, might be an idea to prebuild for Knights Templer.
Make peace with Greece for 20g. Korea wants Bonampak for peace.

10BC - 7
Fend off some Ottoman attacks. Lose one spear.

10AD - 8
Upgrade 2 catapults to trebucht.

30AD - 9
Lose a horse to a 1hp MI.
Osman is fighting with Longbows.

50AD - 10
Lose 2 horse but defeat archer & MI's


I general:
Tikal needs an mp put back and then mm'd. I think we can stay at war with Osman now. He has gems & incense.
Happiness needs careful monitoring. I suspect I traded too early for feudalism, I was getting a spear per turn for mp duty from Chichen. We will need 5 more. I don't think changing to a republic is a good idea right now. Palenque needs to get 14spt, workers are in the area to help with that.

The Game-50AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-50AD.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-50AD.jpg

Belisar -- what news of your game acquisition? Have stores in your area started carrying the game?

Arathorn

Checked for the game in 2 different stores today, no succes :(
I even E-mailed a local software shop, no response within 12 or so hours.
I will try it tomorrow in Vienna's biggest software store, crossing all 10 fingers, but if Lk want's to swap with me that's probably not a bad idea.
I'm sorry for all these troubles.

crossing all 10 fingers and all 9 toes as well. :lol:

Originally posted by Coffee
and all 9 toes as well. :lol:

Is getting the extra toe part of the expansion pack or did you have to download it from the creations forum :D

Originally posted by Coffee
and all 9 toes as well. :lol:
Yeah, I lost one to a closing shop-door yesterday. :lol:

That...err...would make me up. I'm in a bit of a feast mode right now, so Belisar gets another day at least. This is third in my queue right now. LotR10 and LotR8a both have precedence at this point.

Hopefully, Belisar will have good luck today and I won't be quite as much under the gun. I hope to start catching up tonight in earnest.

Arathorn

No rush at this end guys. Once we start going I know I'll get back into it in a short time.

Well, it was a long day, and it will be a long night - I got C&C :D :D :D

I got an E-mail from the shop, saying that they are opening the boxes this second. Said to may group-members: I have to leave for today, an emergency!
Took me 30 minutes to the shop, the underground in Vienna is way too slow...
Got the game and head for the restaurant, dinner with a gf, arranged three days ago so no chance to chancel it.
I have no idea what I was eating, said it was a nice evening and that I had to go home, tired from work, must feed the cat, this stuff (Hey, I HAVE a cat, this was definitely no lie :D )
Now I will test some stuff, then play this one.

'Got it', was about time guys. More tomorrow.

CHEER!!! Yay! Belisar has the game. [party] [dance] Take your time...get accustomed to the changes in C3C. I'm not going to get to this for a couple days at best, anyway, so don't rush your turns.

Arathorn

Preturn: Invention is out there, but not available.
The Koreans give us their 16 cash for peace, I see no reason not to take it.
Ivory to Hanni for Dyes and 11 gold, a badly needed second lux.
After all, we want to keep him polite while we finish off the Ottos.
Lux to 10%, doubling our income.
Sinop and Quirigua -> rax, Bonampak -> courthouse, corruption is really a problem.

IT: The Ottos go with 3 longbows and one MDI for Tikal, 1 longbow+2 archer for Lazapa
and 1 longbow and a spear for Sinop.

70AD: I kill all Otto units on our territory, except one longbow near Sinop and the MDI that
landed per boat, some after bombardement, most defense-1 units with our MDIs.
Zero casualties and we get a new slave from a Javeliner and a GL, just can't spell his name :D
I build an army to begin our offensive operations against the Ottos.

90AD: Konya finishes temple, start rax. 2 Otto longbow enter our territory.
A vulcano does his dirty work near Mecca.
I kill the two bows and after bombardement with 4 cats the MDI in our backyard.
For the first time there are no more Otto units within sight.

IT: The Otto counterattack is a lonely MDI that kills one of ours.
Alex finishes Leo and Hanni Sun, this is actually interesting, we will capture
it at some sooner or later but the fight with Hanni will be tougher.
We have an increasing tech problem, Cleo is running around with muskets.

110AD: Sign ROP with Alex to allow our galley crossing his lands (or should I say seas)
Kill an Otto bow, a MDI remains south of Iznik.

130AD: Connect additional Ivory near Lazapa.
I advance towards Iznik, using our MDI-army as spearhead.

IT: The Ottos land a longbow near Quirigua and move a MDI and and 2 additional bows towards
our advancing stacks at Iznik.
We get a palace expansion.

150AD: I kill off 4 Ottos and our army takes out the first two defenders of Iznik.

IT: The next MDI/longbow pair heads our way. A bow-attack near Iznik but our pike
holds the line, defeating the bow.

170AD: I capture Iznik from it's last spear and we get 4 new slaves and a cat, the
new armies are quite useful. The city is way to big, so we aband. it, will replace it on our
side of the river next turn.
The leading AIs got Chivalry but our income is pathetic, so no still no trading chances.
I swap Copan and Palenque to cathedral, with only 2 luxes and our small income we will
need them to grow our cities.

IT: Russia completes Sistine, everyone and his br. is working on Kights Templar.
No new Otto units this turn.
A few new units finished, start courthouse in Calakmul.

190AD: Found Piedras near former Iznik.
Heal our army and the MDIs. Collect units for a second advance south.

IT: Hanni and Cleo ally against Korea, Korea build Knights Templar.
The Ottos land the next longbow ner Quirigua.

210AD: Lagartero starts marketplace.
I kill the longbow near Quiri and get a new slave, Javeliner are cool :D
Some troop movement for the next advance.

I hand over the save now because there are some decisions regarding the military
advance (south our towards the Otto Incense source, which will take some time)
and our economic situation. We lack at least the techs up to gunpowder and 60% of our cities
are building military.
Up to Arathorn if we continue in war-mode or try to consolidate and catch up on the tech front.

Good luck and my apologizes for the long delay (had to test C&C first)

Belisar.


SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-210AD.zip)

Yea, I think its the gpt bug thats hurting our tech advance. I started a 83gpt trade early in my turns and it looks like the doubling effect has given the AI a huge lead. If thats right we should compete for luxuries and trade lump sum + luxs for tech. Early stealing is another option. Darn bugs.

(0) 210 - Why didn't Belisar finish his turns? Playing the last two wouldn't have committed us to any great actions. And even if it did, that's part of what I find fun about SGs -- getting the game in positions I normally wouldn't leave it in. Helps me expand my gameplay. Anyway..... What to do?

Well, we're in Monarchy, so there's no worries about war weariness. We have a strong military compared to the Ottomans, and the Carthiginians seem pretty polite/pleased with us, so I'm not too worried about a backdoor stab. Our border cities in the east are fairly well defended. I see no reason to not keep this war going.

Go through the cities and MM. Gain a bit of gold here, a couple turns on growth there, but very little overall.

Ivory and 96 gold to Egypt for 10 gpt (Yes, this could be considered "exploiting the bug", but since we're paying Egypt 80+ gpt at this point, I'm just trying to even it up a bit. In the future, we should limit our in-coming gpt deals). Change Konya to settler -- I sense a bit of razing and replacing in the future.

(I) Russia and Arabs make peace. Not sure why, as Russia will ally with someone against Arabia again soon. And how in the HECK is Arabia still in the game, with their tech deficit and all the forces arrayed against them?

(1) 230 - Ottomans appear pretty seriously gassed. Their "offense" is 2 bows and an MDI which don't even reach our cultural borders. They'll be easy to kill next turn. Move on Aydin in the north.

(I) Yawn...

(2) 250 - Kill the Ottoman invaders, after suitable bombardment. Kill another random Ottoman in their territory. Move towards Kafa in the south.

(I) Greece and Russia ally vs. Korea. Greece and Carthage make peace. Lots of this kinda stuff going on. Wars and peaces all over the place. Too confusing for me to keep really close track of. I watched the Ottomans and the Carthiginians closely, so they're our neighbors. We want both fighting anybody but us as much as possible.

(3) 260 - And the years slow down. We celebrate by attempting to bomb Aydin 4 times and failing every time. It doesn't matter, though, as we capture the city with our army and other MDI from 2 spears and a longbow with no losses. I'm going to raze Uskudar from its poor location and replace with two cities. That's in the northwest.

Kafa in the south also was defended by two spears. This is almost too easy. Capture it, too, as it's a ways from their capital and it looks like we can just run roughshod over the remnants of the Ottoman cities, greatly increasing our land holdings.

(I) Consider revising my opinion, as the Ottomans parade a knight into our territory. I also have my first casualty, as I had to leave an MDI exposed and he got longbow'd.
Egypt and Korea make peace. See previous note.

(4) 270 - Healing and positioning.

(I) Russia wants to end our RoP. Since we'd have to pay for it, and I don't really fear war with them at this point, I just let it lapse.

(5) 280 - Postion and, hey, we have a bunch of slaves and workers...shouldn't they be doing stuff?

(I) Greeks and Arabs make peace. How'd Abu pull that deal off? Egypt and Korea ally against Arabs, so it's still the same ole stuff there. Carthage cancels our RoP, but they're still polite, so I let that one lapse, too.

(6) 290 - Hey, wow! Our income just shot way the heck up. Cool. I'm going to accumulate cash for an eventual 2 or 3fer, since Greece still lacks Education but has Invention (and, I think, Gunpowder).

(I) Ottomans muster a counter-offensive -- 3 longbows attack one of our stacks. We kill the first two, but lose an MDI to the third. I can deal with that.

(7) 300 - Uskudar shows a pike on top. That's OK. Kill it with the army. Next up is a spear, who dies to an MDI. Another spear. MDI attacks, redlines it, but dies. OK, try a javilineer -- the spear only has 1 hp and I like slaves, but we die again. MDI finally succeeds and we...notice Uskudar has the Great Lighthouse....but it really is in a horrible position and we have contact with everybody, so who cares? Raze the offending city.

We form Uaxactun on the incense hill, but it's not connected to the rest of our empire yet. Well-defended workers and slaves are on that job immediately.

And our galley scouting the southern part of the Ottomans notes that they have more land than I'd originally realized. And that Carthage has at least one city on the southern part of the Ottoman peninsula. Interesting.

(I) I decide to play 12 turns to even up the years.

(8) 310 - Position troops and heal again.

(9) 320 - Lose 2 MDI but capture Bursa on a hill in the south. I thought this was going to give us gems and iron, but Ottoman culture still intrudes. They must have a city in the fog. I can determine exactly where it is by looking at cultural borders. And by looking at Ottoman's history, it must be Edrine, home of the Great Wall. But it's going to be awkward to attack.

(I) Longbow attacks a javilineer on a hill and we have a new slave. Egypt offers 12 gpt for an alliance against Abu. We fear him not, he's a horrible trade partner, and we can use the cash. Plus, it's Cleo, who still owes us for all that bonus gpt we gave her. I agree. I also note in passing that Egypt has Maps for sale. So they're at Navigation. And we still don't know Education. Interesting.....

(10) 330 - I get a scare as a defending pike does 10 damage to our attacking MDI army (we attack at a 6, so odds are much more in our favor). But we do win. I go on to capture Izmit with no losses. I didn't raze, because...well, we didn't have a settler near and/or :smoke: was in use.

Trade our world map to Egypt for TM, 1 gpt, 1 gold. WM to Russia for TM and 12 gold. And noone else has Navigation. We're getting close to 2fer territory, or possibly a 3fer including Printing Press from Korea to Carthage, but I hold off for now. Techs seem much more expensive in C3C and I want to pay pure cash, not gpt, for each.

(I) Ottomans ask for peace, straight-up. I laugh in their face.

(11) 340 - Cuello founded north of Uskudar's ruins. By Bursa, an elite sword loses 5 straight to a spear on a mountain. OUCH. Horsie wins, though.

(I) Bursa flips. We lost an MDI, a horse, 3 pults, and a trebuchet. Bummer. I was expecting to be able to advance from here more quickly, but it was constantly under siege. Not the wisest use of forces here in the south.

(12) 350 - Move towards what I assume is Edrine. By my calculations, moving SE next turn will put you adjacent to Edrine and will not require an attack across a river. My best guess is that Edrine will have 3 defenders -- pike, spear, spear. It's a wonder city, after all. It should probably be razed.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr11-350ad.zip

Suggestions for next player (After I wrote this section, I saw it was Lee, so these suggestions are probably unnecessary, but I'll leave them around anyway):
- Definitely raze the hidden city, which I believe to be Edrine.
- Consider abandoning and refounding Izmit.
- OPTION 1: Twofer Education and Invention from Korea (include communications with Ottomans) and Greece, hope Ottomans have something beyond Education (I think they may have Astronomy) which we can get for peace and trade to Greece for Gunpowder. Then, move east towards Carthage and raze/replace Rusicade and Hippo, which I view as OUR LANDS. Our lux/lux deal with them expires very soon (first interturn or shortly thereafter).
- OPTION 2: Keep pounding the Ottomans until we have their iron and gems...Edrine and Bursa required, I believe. Possibly with raze/replaces. Still, I'd use the Ottomans as a tech sponge, if we can.
- Picking between option 1 and option 2 might depend on when we start seeing muskets defending (or multiple muskets defending) cities.
- I'd skip Chivalry completely. Our MDI forces are doing well, especially spear-headed by the army. With artillery support, they're great and we might want to just wait for cavalry. We can do slow advances with current troop types.

LKendter -- UP NOW
Arizona_Steve -- ON DECK

Have fun and good luck!
Arathorn

In the queue for Saturday morning.

350 AD (pre-turn)
I upgrade quite a few units, and I send our Javelin throwers to the front. We still may be able to find a few longbows to kill. One can never have enough workers. Best case we can merge our 9 natural workers into cities.

My game plan is - OPTION 2: Keep pounding the Ottomans until we have their iron and gems. . I hate depending on a single source of a critical resource such as iron. Multiple gems once the city is razed and replaced with a good Mayan city would be awesome.

I am glad I didn't assume Arathorn left everything perfect, as I find Copan ready to riot. I reconfigure corrupt cities to all food, and several of our core cities to grow faster.

:confused: Yaxchilan is building a courthouse with almost no corruption?

My tech trading is totally different then Arathorn suggested. The reason is that the techs available from the Ottomans via pointy stick. They will already give us Education or Invention for nothing. With a few more dead cities we should be able to get both. Contact with the Ottomans to Korea is only worth ~$30.
(I) 2 units flushed down the toilet as Izmit flips to the Ottomans.

360 AD
Korea must really be hurting as they now have 4 workers for sale.
How in the world does Egypt have $8,821 this early in the game?
I buy the Russian map and find the Ottoman can be thrown from our continent, as they have overseas cities.

370 AD
Unreal, Egypt is up to $9,138. This must be due to the gpt bug. I can't wait for the first patch. :mad:

380 AD
All this cash is burning a hole in my pocket, so 2 settlers and a temple are rushes. I wonder where new city sites may appear? :satan:

390 AD
I even more want to wipe the Ottomans out, as the free unit in Izmit was a musket. They probably have saltpeter and they have gunpowder tech. I deal up Korea and give them $8/turn, contact Ottoman and $915 and we have Education.
Education and $20/turn is shipped to get Invention.

The Ottoman's have Gunpowder and Astronomy available for peace and $38/turn. I think I need to convince them to lower the price. :hammer:

400 AD
It is time for the hammer now that I have a SoD - 3 Javelin, 5 mdi, 2 out of date swords, 1 army by Edrine. During the assault:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LAK-363.jpg

Eighteen rabbit forms another army. Now I just need enough units to fill it up. Since I forget to check for possible multiple wonders I capture Edrine, and find the Great Wall is it. The city is promptly abandoned. The GW is almost expired at this point. I think we can survive with simply capturing 2 workers. The Ottomans have dropped their price to $20/turn for the two techs. I think we can still to better.

420 AD
Tulum is formed where Edrine used to be.
(I) Russia and Egypt ally vs. Arabia. How is Arabia still alive?

430 AD
I think peace treaty offers have changed. Once again the discount for a tech is dropping after a couple of turns of no fighting.
(I) Carthage and Russia ally vs. Arabia.
Ottomans and Carthage ally vs. Korea :lol:

440 AD
I get away with a bit of craziness. We bombard a Ottoman knight to 1 hp, and our horseman kills it. :D
We never formed an embassy with Korea. I establish it in the Korea capitol of P'yongyang.
(I) Egypt completes Bach.

450 AD
Istanbul is razed. [dance]

The Ottomans still think we should send them $11 for 2 techs.


Summary:
:hammer: Izmit (culture behind our lines) and Bursa (gems and iron) before signing peace with the Ottomans. That should get use 2 techs for almost free.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-450AD.zip

Got it...

(0) 450AD
Following on with the general plan, I will try to nail Bursa and Izmit. If I remember rightly, there is a flip penalty for any civ who loses their capital. Therefore a few aggressive settlements may be in order.
Once again Lee leaves me with everything well set-up. I put one entertainer in Aydin back to work though.
I make note of a couple of settlers sitting under one of the armies.
There is a third settler in place, on top of a razed Ottoman city (Istanbul I guess).
Oh my Gawd - How behind in techs are we? Carthage is up by Chivalry, Printing Press, Music Theory, Gunpowder, Banking and Astronomy. Probably up a few other techs that we cannot see. I curse this assinine GPT bug!
Egypt are equally ahead and have an absurd 11649 gold in their treasury. Come on Firaxis, don't tell us that no-one saw this in play-testing, and that no-one questioned it?

IBT:
The last pikeman covering our settler survives with 2 hp left. Our elite Javelin Thrower is picked off by a longbow.

(1) 460AD
Coba founded on top of Istanbul's ruins.
I kill four or five longbows and a knight in our territory, with no losses.

IBT:
One longbow moves into range, but no attacks.

(2) 470AD
Begin moving troops towards Izmit. One army will wait and heal in Coba, before spearheading the attack on Bursa.

IBT:
Even more unintersting than the last interturn. I did notice that Palenque can build Medieval Infantry as fast as it can build longbows, so I make the switch.

(3) 480AD
More troop movements.

IBT:
The rampaging Carthaginian forces have destroyed the Arabs. Serves 'em right.
Aydin flips to the Ottomans. It was surrounded by our culture. OK, they starve when I recapture.

(4) 490AD
More troop movements. Move workers away from Aydin, and cover with a Javelin Thrower.

IBT:
Korea and Greece sign a peace treaty.

(5) 500AD
Bombard Izmit. Redline one musket and yellowline the second. Our army goes in an kills both of them (love that blitz ability). This leaves one longbow, who is defeated and enslaved by a Javelin Thrower.
Izmit is captured, as it does come with an Aquaduct. It will be starved from it's current three citizens to one in due course.
Four javalin throwers and a pikeman are moved in, to get the resistance over with as fast as possible.
Osman will give us Astronomy and Gunpowder for peace, but the gems and iron at Bursa are too inviting.

IBT:
Miss the size increase at Copan, and it riots. Sorry!

(6) 510AD
Taxman hired at Copan.
Kill one spearman at Ayrdin, but another remains.

IBT:
Order restored at Copan, but I screwed up (again) and it starves. UGH!

(7) 520AD
Kill TWO spears at Ayrdin with a couple of Medievals, and the city is ours once again.
A new stack of doom is formed to head towards Bursa.

IBT:
I am playing this game really badly today, concentrating too much on the war and not enough on what's going on at home. Yep, you guessed it, another city riots, this time it's Lagartero. Taxman hired.
Flip through our cities, and noticee that Chichen-Itza doean't need the taxman there - he's put back to work.
An Ottoman knight appears.

(8) 530AD
Not too sure what to do about the knight, who stands outside Kafa. I send a veteran horse at him, who promptly dies without inflicting any damage. I'm able to move a second pikeman into Kafa from Sinop. And save the slave worker who was working outside Kafa.
Sheesh, now Chichen Itza wants to riot, but I manage to catch it. I'm cursed this turn, I swear. The taxman is re-hired.

IBT:
That demonic knight manages to find a stray Medieval, and defeats it, again suffering no damage.

(9) 540AD
Our SOD moves onto the Ottoman iron, on it's way to attack Bursa next turn.
Our galley sinks an Ottoman galley. I hope there were troops on it.
I attack that damn knight (now elite) with a Medieval, who, you guessed it, loses. At least this time, the knight is yellowlined. I'm able to pull some workers out of range and shuffle some pikes so that all cities are defended.

IBT:
As if sensing trouble at Bursa, the knight retreats, attacking nothing.

(10) 550AD
I have a medieval in range, who attacks and defeats that wretched knight.
Two catapaults and six trebuchets beat down two muskets in Bursa to redlined and yellowlined. Our army kills both of them and we raze the city. I then move the settler onto the hill next to the river, and found Steve's Outpost. Fortify a bunch of troops there.
Just to finish off, I attack a redlined longbow with a Javelin Thrower and get us another slave.

OK. Mission accomplished, so we should think about peace, and extorting a few techs from the Ottomans. Steve's outpost needs a temple expansion to bring in the gems, maybe building by the river wasn't so smart.
I didn't spend any of our cash, so there's 1389 gold sitting around for the next leader to trade with (avoiding GPT, of course).

More ill-gotten gains.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-550AD.jpg

And the save file - 550AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-550AD.zip)

I got it.

Sorry if this is late. I got a little carried away with a single player game over the weekend. I actually reinstalled C3C so I could run PTW from the same disk. After I uninstalled I also removed all of the remaining directories (PTW & C3C). Now if you are wondering where this is going, well the FP had a positive effect on neighboring cities. :eek: Strange huh.

Preturn - 0
Egypt banking -> ivory, iron & 290g -> a good deal
Extort astronomy, gunpowder & chivalry from Osman for peace & 15g.
That gets us out of chivalry. I pass on PP and Music Theory.
Sell Osman banking for 32gpt.
Chemistry & Navigation are on the table. (Start a 30t gambit for economics and then decide not to.)
Switch 3 cities to colosseums, they are cheaper and should be enough with the gems. (due soon)
Rush 2 courthouses & 1 colosseum for 264g.
We have saltpeter, need a border expansion.
Rush 2 temples & 1 more courthouse for 430g.
Set the palace & fp to banks, set 3 cities to pikes as we need some cheap mp's.

Korea & Osman are furious, the rest are annoyed.

Mm the fishing villages for gold, send the military east.

IBT -> Egypt & Russia sign an MA vs Korea.
Carthage demands TM + 34g. I wimp out.
Reup dyes for ivory + 6gpt with Carthage.


560 AD - 1
Start 4 banks, 3 markets, 2 courthouses and 1 aqueduct.


570 AD - 2
Relocate Steve's Outpost closer to gems to pick up 2nd source on expansion. Renamed to Steve's Outpost Redeux.
Establish colony on 2nd gems source. Lux to 0.
Complete 3 pikes start 3 more.

580 AD - 3

590 AD - 4
Shakespears is popular.
I notice our income jumps 30gpt.
Rush 1 pike.

IBT Carthage has destroyed the solid Koreans.

600 AD - 5

610 AD - 6
I steal Chemistry from Carthage for 1367g +/-
We are got up in tech, ignoring the options.
Are troops are positioned in the east.

620 AD - 7
I merged a settler in Calakmul and rushed the market there.
Rush market in Piedras.

630 AD - 8
Complete 2 markets, 1 bank, 1 aqueduct.
Start 3 libraries & a raxs.
Rush 2 banks.

640 AD - 9
Rush the temple at Steve's Outpost.
Metallurgy & Physics are up.

650 AD - 10
Our galley is suicide exploring.
Our earnings are 253gpt. Good luck to Belisar.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR11-650AD.zip)

I got Coffee's file but I also got a technical problem:
When loading the save I get an error message
'can't find file "/art/units/knight/KnightDeath.wav" '
I checked the directory, my C&C /art/units/ -dir. doesn't contain any
old units. just the new ones.
(in the PTW /art/units/ -dir. there are all units)
I have 2 KnightDeath.wav files on my HD, the one from original civ3 and the one
in the PTW dir.
Is this a bug or some version problem?
Does someone know if I have to copy the files with the old units into the C&C dir. ?

I don't know. Maybe just copy one of the files to the pointer'd location.

The problem is: There is no absolute pointer in the error message,
just /art/units/knight/...../,
no Civ3/art/...
or Civ3/Conquest/art/...
so I don't even know where the file is missing.

I'd have to be at home to look. Will post a screen shot later showing my install.

@Belisar
Are both your original game and PTW the same language version? If not, this could be playing havoc.

I have an UK version of the original game and the europ. version of PTW.
But what does my PTW version do for C&C?
I thought that C&C works without PTW.
I will try uninstall all games,
install vanilla CIV3 and then C&C only.

The names of the units could be different:

IE - You have a french Civ III, and a english Conquest.
The knights could be under a directory for the French word for knights, while the english version looks for the word "knight". The two words don't match and you get an error. Both versions must be the same language.

I only have 1 file by that name. It is located here C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Art\units\Knight\

Sounds like some good advice being given here. I'm mostly just a plug-and-play guy with Civ3, so I'm afraid I'm not much if any help. I did test and could play with my installation, but we should get this resolved.

Arathorn

Please skip me for this round, I may even have to drop if this one can't be solved.

As I said, I have an english version of vanilla Civ3 and an english version of C&C.
I removed all games (secured the saves) and installed only vanilla Civ3 and C&C.
Then I checked again, same result. It seems I have a correct KnightDeath file in the directory Coffee mentioned but it is either not found by the expansion or not accepted.
I bought all 3 CDs in the same store and always asked for the english version.
My last guess is that there are version problems with UK and US games and a totally incompetent management mixed those for Austria, or worse, they sell both versions.
I really got frustrated from this one.
They already managed to 'improve' the game, now they also managed to 'improve' the version problems.
I have only 1 question: 'Does an UK knight die different from an US knight?'
Could be funny, but buying 3 games with the functionality of 0.89 is certainly not.

It was fun to play with you, sorry for the troubles

Belisar

OK. Got it.

Major bummer, Belisar. I hope you can get it resolved.

We'll keep you on the roster, in the hopes that you can rejoin us shortly.

Arathorn

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr11-750ad.zip

Very short story:
- War with Russia
- Parity on required techs

More tonight. Gotta run. Just checking the link now.

Arathorn

I see it, but I am waiting for the detailed report before playing

I see it, but I am waiting for the detailed report before playing :D

(0) 650 - We have on-going deals with everybody but Russia and Greece. Greece is far away in the deepest, darkest distance. Plus, we're paying unit upkeep in MONARCHY. That's crazy. We need a war. And while we didn't used to border Russia, we do now, so they're the target.

I also note that Carthage and Russia are the only real threats, even though Cleo has far too many thousands of gold.

Build orders...libraries? Nah. Courthouses, banks, markets, units. All libraries are stopped in their tracks. We're a ways from researching ourselves, including a minimum of a revolt to Republic.

And why do we have so many pikes? I upgrade a few and move a few to the front, but we have way more than I'd ever build myself, unless I had twice or thrice the cities we do.

(1) 660 - Declare on Russia. Capture some more slaves. Pay Hannibal 25 gpt to get them in on the fun. Rusicade is target #1. Settlers on the way, too.

(I) Moscow completes Shakespeare. We might want to consider trying to capture, hold, recapture, etc. Moscow. It has a LOT of wonders.

(2) 670 - I wish I was working on the railroad.... Twofer available but would take all our cash and most of our income to get it, so I pass for now.

(3) 680 - Raze Rusicade -- defended by two pikes and a longbow. We'll replace with two cities -- one fairly useful and one right on the choke to give us control. The choke one will fight Carthage culturally, but we're about even at this point and the nearest Carthaginian city hasn't expanded its borders yet.

(4) 690 - Found Magapan and Kabah, as indicated.

(5) 700 - Twofer gone, so I send Gems, world map, and 1500 gold to Egypt for Physics. Cleo can hardly have more cash, so it, ironically, doesn't really help her at all. Physics opens up a view into other techs in the Middle Ages we will need. Banking to OCC Greece for Printing Press and 2 workers.

(6) 710 - First casualty -- an MDI, but I gain a javilineer slave while razing Smolensk -- defended by 3 pikes. Does Russia not have saltpeter? I don't remember when I checked peace, but they do NOT have saltpeter. Definitely a good time to try to take it to them.

(7) 720 - Russia is ignoring our SOD. We can only really move one space in force, as our strength is in artillery and MDI. Russia and Carthage exchange many troops.

(8) 730 - I think I played something.

(9) 740 - Another twofer available, but we have deals to Cleo expiring next turn, probably saving ~100 gpt. So we move on Russia more.

(I) Egypt demands and gets even more cash -- something trivial like 40 gold.

(10) 750 - Found Ake' past the choke. Raze Vladivostok, but we don't have a settler handy to replace it yet. Russia's putting up only minimal fight. We'll probably lose the victorious MDI in the interturn, but I thought I'd seen one more pike than they actually had, while I was bombarding.

Ivory, Iron, WM, 260 gold (better than 97 gpt and 2300 gold!) to Cleo fo Theory of Gravity.
ToG + 162 gold to Hannibal for Metallurgy.
Horses to Hanni for Music Theory, 173 gold, WM.
Physics to pathetic Ottomans for 18 gpt and 20 gold -- they can potentially be good for twofers.

Summary:
- We're at war with Russia -- alliance for another 11 turns.
- Nobody has Magnetism, so nobody's Industrial yet.
- We still have no research infrastructure.
- Russia will probably crumble fairly soon.
- Egypt and Russia have Military Tradition, but Russia has no salt.

Arathorn

I expected the veto on the libraries but the pikes :hmm: well I guess those gems did more than I estimated. And Cleo, she's going for the 20,000 gold victory. ;) Good luck to Lee.

Apologies for the thread-jack, but ...

@Belisar Check this Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68226)

It is a solution to the "knightdeath.wav" error.

Long story short, it seems you need to have installed the Civ3 1.29f patch for Conquests to install properly.

@Belisar - I noticed the .wav bug listed on Bamspeedy's Conquests bug list thread. Apparently the solution is to ensure that the vanilla Civ3 1.29f patch is installed before conquests is installed (for some dumb (yes, DUMB Firaxis) reason it's not installed by Conquests, yet is required for the game to work).

So try installing Civ3 + 1.29f + Conquests and see if that works.

Edit: Should've read the post above...

750 AD (pre-turn)
Once again a military turn. Why do I have a bad feeling I won't get another builder turn?

I rush temple in Coba to relieve the Ottoman cultural pressure.

780 AD
(I) Egypt declares war on Carthage. I suspect our ally won't be of much use at this point.
Egypt begins Smith's - the tech gambit went nowhere.


800 AD
Our artillery does so well that I don't even need the armies to raze Yekaterinburg.

820 AD
Xcalumkin is formed in former Russian territory.
I may regret try to keep it, but I capture Moscow. I really like double strength cathedrals.

830 AD
(I) Well that was even faster then I thought Moscow would flip.

840 AD
:mad: Our army can't kill a pikeman in Moscow. We only have one army left. :mad:
I learned my lesson and raze Moscow in disgust. I really hate to toss good wonders. Ek Balam is formed.

Summary:
Our troops are by Ek Balam to get some needed recovery time. Take advantage of the barracks being built their and upgrade those catapults and Trebuchets.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR11-850AD.zip

Following me, Lee? Don't expect (m)any builder turns. :) I think you'll be fine with war, though!

Arathorn

Got it - although I have (in the last hour or so) completely reinstalled Windows due to major file corruption on one of my hard drives (an NTFS partition at that).

Hopefully I should get to the game later today.

It seems I'm able to play again.
The 1.29 patch didn't help, same error.
I had to manualy edit the configuration file, seems to work now.
Thanks for helpful suggestions.

Belisar

Yuck. What a day...

Switched on the system last night to find that Windows wanted to run a chkdisk. "Fine" I thought, then watched for around half an hour as it reset security attributes in some 16,000 files. After this had completed, I shut down the system.

Next morning I logged on to find my D: drive hopelessly corrupted.

So...
Reinstalled Windows 2000.
Reinstalled service pack 4, DirectX 9.0b and all drivers.
Installed dial-up networking.
Waited three hours while the remaining hotfixes and Internet Explorer 6 downloaded.
Finally, the important bit... Install Civ3, patch to 1.29f and install Conquests.

So if there's any :smoke: in my play... well, I've had a long day :D

(0) 850AD
Due to the aforementioned system reinstall, I don't have the LotR11 web page up in front of me, and am therefore not too sure what the plan is. I don't recall Lee mentioning anything specific though.
I'd like to see Russia reduced to some OCC action in Ulsan. As for priority targets, I see dyes not too far from Yakutsk, furs near St Petersburg and Iron near Wonsan. Looks like Yakutsk will be my first target.
Egypt is so far ahead on tech it's just not funny. They are up Democracy, Economics, Navigation, Magnetism and Military Tradition. That and 18534 gold in the bank. Absurd.
We have a strong military compared to the Russians.

(1) 860AD
Relatively little happens. I start moving troops to Xcalumkin, which will act as a staging post for my next Stack-of-doom.
I also take advantage of the newly created barracks in Ek Balam to upgrade a number of catapaults and trebuchets to cannon.

IBT:
Hannibal wants to renew out alliance against Russia for 25 gold/turn. I decline, as I'd rather see his forces take a chunk out of Egypt. Of course if Egypt and Carthage sign peace, I may well renew the deal.

(2) 870AD
More troop movements.
Kill a lone Russian knight on their side of the border.

(3) 880AD
More troop movements.

IBT:
Russia manages an attack on Ek Balam with a massive stack-of-doom consisting of... one knight. It retreats.
Egypt and Carthage sign a peace treaty. Damn.
Xcalumkin culture expands, bringing silks inside our borders. WLTGI (Great Instigator) day breaks out in several cities.

(4) 890AD
Thanks to the cultural expansion, I'm able to move troops next to Yakutsk (including a settler).
Rush temple in Ek Balam.

(5) 900AD
Yakutsk is razed. The two pikemen defending were beaten down to 1hp with cannon, before being dispatched with no losses. A longbow was also defeated, and we captured a trebuchet and two workers.
Settler moved into position, to settle next turn.

IBT:
I note that Carthage is still at war with Russia, we don't need no stinkin' alliance.

(6) 910AD
Tazumal is founded upon the ruins of Yakutsk.

(7) 920AD
Next stack-of-doom sets off for Rostov. I begin collecting knights in Ek-Balam to form a second front.

(8) 930AD
More troop movements.

(9) 940AD
Defeat three spearmen and Rostov is razed.
Rush a settler in Ek Balam to replace it.

(10) 950AD
Troop movements.

The main action right now is to the south of St Petersburg. I am in the process of forming a new stack-of-doom on the mountain there.
Our settler is underneath two musketmen next to the mountain containing our stack-of-doom. There is no need to prioritize the dyes when resettling, as Tazumal has a temple and will expand borders soon.
Egypt will sell us Magnetism for Gems, Iron, World Map and 950 gold (I didn't try to negotiate). This will get us into the industrial age. However, Military tradition may be more worthwhile for a two-fer, as Carthage don't have it.
I spent minimal gold on upgrades and rushes.

Apologies for no picture, I haven't got MS Photo Editor up yet.

And the 950AD save file. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR11-950AD.zip)

Looks good to me. I would try for a MT and Magnetism 2fer. Most of the rest of the techs that we're down don't really matter. I would actually build Military Academy. I imagine an army of cavalry (if we can get Pentagon and 4 cavs in, it will be a 12/6 move 4 force), we will be sitting very pretty.

If memory serves (my connection is far too slow to try checking), Coffee is up.

Arathorn

I got it.

950 AD - 0
MM the fishing villages for some more gold. Ivory, iron and 910 gold to Egypt for MT. Gems, MT and 20 gold to Carthage for magnetism. Egypt has nationalism. Ten turns remaining on economics. Merge some workers and mine for 14, 16 and 20spt which is best for calvary.

IBT; Russia and the Ottomans sign a MA against Greece. Russia and Greece sign a peace treaty. Magellans completes. Our ivory for dyes trade with Carthage is not renewed.

960 AD - 1
Increase luxuries to 10%
Economics is out there. It would seem 39 turns make a good tech gambit.
Change research to steam power.
My attempt to steal nationalism fails. The agent escapes undetected.
Cathedrals complete, start on cavs and muskets.
Upgrade 10 knights, short rush 4 cavs.
Russia has nationalism.

IBT - Carthage & Osman sign an MA against Russia

970 - 2
Chichen -> Military Academy
Upgrade 5 knights.
Our borders expand and pull in the dyes -> luxs back to 0%
Trade Osman TofG for Economics and 100 gold.

980 AD - 3
Raise St. Petersburg and the capital moves to Novgorod.
I have 2 settlers to replace on route.
My 2nd attempt to steal nationalism fails and Egypt declares war.
I sign Carthage to an MA vs Eqypt for Ivory. Add in an ROP.
Well I've spent all of our cash but we still have 332 gpt.

IBT - The treacherous Greeks have signed an MA against us.

990 AD - 4
Egypt has captured a Carthaginian city. Send cavs in support.
Short rush two cav.
I can't get Nat. from Russia for peace.

1000 AD - 5
Settle Cozumel -> furs
Upgrade horse to cav.

1010 AD - 6
New Chichén Itza settled to fill in the gaps.
WLTGI is celebrated in many cities.
We capture Leptus Minor (old Carthage) and liberate 534 gold.
Rush 3 cav & 2 muskets, where are the mps when ya need em.
Carthage muskets are getting in the way.
Swap Chichen to a library. that completes libs in the top 4 science cities.

IBT - Egypt completes Newtons. Russia and Carthage make peace.

1020 AD - 7
Move troops and wait.

1030 AD - 8
I capture the Russian city of Yaroslavl' and keep it.
More Cavalry rushes.

1040 AD - 9

1050 AD - 10
Must have blended a turn. There are some wounded cavalry (active) your call.
Also a stack in Yaroslavl' (active) again your choice.

Notes to the next leader. Crush Russia and Egypt. Maybe research rails also. good luck.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR11-1050AD.zip)

Belisar -- UP NOW (I did read rightly that you've gotten all version incompatability worked out, right?)
Arathorn -- ON DECK

Looking very good, guys. Only thing I would add is to be sure to start the Military Academy somewhere. Armies are definitely worth building now.

Arathorn

I got it, together with MLDR04, so I will probably need a day.

I restarted the academy after the library completed in Chichen. Should have mentioned that.

With a 2-front cav-war, turns took longer than expected.
Will try to finish tonight.

EDIT: Last 2 turns, we are still alive ;)

Preturn: Move some units (tactical withdraw from Thermopylae for this turn),
military situation looks pretty good for 1050AD.
I also notice that we are on our way to get Leo in Athen and that Cleo is currently
building Smith for us in Memphis.

IT: An Egypt cav kills one of our cavs at Leptis.
Hanni kills a cav in Thermophylae.

1060: I attack Thermopylae, it is defended by conscript rifles and cavs.
Our third victory produces GL CAUAC SKY :D good, I need a cav army at that front.
We take the city and 'free' 6 new workers, we also get 530 gold, Egypt must have tons of cash.

IT: The Russians kill one of our cavs with a rifle.
Hanni take out 3 Egypt-units on open ground and loses a cav to a egypt rifle, two of
them are advancing on the road network north.

1070: We capture Novgorod in the North to the price of 1 cav, defeating 4 defenders.
Statue of Zeus, useless but ours.
Bombard and kill of 2 Russian rifles on open ground near Novgorod.
We have enough money to make a steal attempt and get Nationalism, good, we
need better defenders to minimize cav-casulaties.

IT: Egypt and Ottos sign an embargo agaisnt us and a MA agaisnt Hanni, Ottos declare
against Hanni. Hanni kills 3 Egypt rifles that were about to pillage his lands, we are not harrased.

1080: The attack on Sparta which is held by 3 muskets costs us 1 cav before we take the city.
A lot of troop movement, in the north to regroup our forces after the eastern russian cities are taken,
in the south to cover most of our exposed cav. I want to begin rifles upgrade next turn.
I have not enough troops to attack Athen which is held by vet rifles this turn.

IT: Egypt counterattacks, Hanni lost 2 cav, we lose 1.
Alex wants a peace treaty, why not.

1090: I start rifle upgrading and drafting in 1-shield cities.
Most of our cav in the south is healing this turn, a stack in the north heads for Hyangsan.
Our army lost 11 HP! attacking a stupid musket, this is ridiculous

IT: 1 Egypt cav impales itself at Thermopylae.

1100: With 10 redlined cavs and a redlined cav army, I can't do much in the south.
At least we have no casulaties this way :D

IT: The next Egypt cav is stopped redlined at Thermopylae, another doesn't attack Sparta and turns
around. We get a Palace expansion.

1110: I attack Athen, it is defended by 7! rifles.
Our army akes out 2, then I get 3 retreats in a series, finally we capture the city with
one cav-loss and 5 reedlined ones. We get a Treb. and a cannon, and the city has raxes :D
Kill of a russian rifle on pillage mission. I bombard Hyangsan succesfully and take the city without problems
from its 3 defenders (1 was a cossak), we have not many cavs
in the north and all our new cav-reinforcements are sent towards Egypt where the real work fight is
still not accompished as we are taking only low-culture former Greek cities currently.
This means the northern offensive is slow but there are enough cannons in the area to keep the casualties minimal.

IT: Cleo wants to talk. They are up Steam which I want but we are still in an alliance with Hanni.
Interesting, I have taken 3 cities and she doesn't want to give us anything for peace.
Hanni move a lot of cavs into our territory heading for the Ottos.
Both Cleo and we lose a cav.

1120: cavs are healing in the south, our northern stack advances towards the last two northern russian city.
If we take them, there are only the southern few left.

IT: Cleo is still sending a few cavs every turn, This time we lose 1, she 2 at Sparta.
She kills one of Hannis muskets. Hanni is really after the Ottos, he kills 3 MDIs on our territory and
send a lot of new cavs, he somehow leaves us the Egyptian front

1130: A lot of troop movement and positioning.

IT: Hanni kill more Otto units, no attack from Cleo this turn.
A Russian settler/rifle combo enters our terriotry.
And they are finally sending longbows :D
The resistanece in Athen ends, I continue starving them.

1140: Kill the 3 russian longbows, getting 2 more elite cavs.
We take Corinth with our army and two additional cavs.
Slowly we are advancing. Spot 4 Egypt-rifles near the town.
Move stack into position for the attack of Pusan next turn.

IT: No attack from Cleo, but Hanni and the Ottos are killing units from each other.
Some resistance in Nov. ends causing riots.

1150: We attack and capture Byblos, only 3 retreats and no losses this time but mostly
conscripts and a cav, only 1 vet rifle. We get another 1200 cash form this city.
I left Arathorn with some money to rush things, maybe some rifles on the Egypt front instead of
the settlers.
The bombardement of Pusan failed this turn and the stack was just reinforced with cav, so
the attack is delayed one turn.
In the south our position is getting better, I think Cleo is running out of units.
Spices should be save now and could be connected.
I think this was my last turn, it was time-consuming to get into it but it was fun.

Belisar

The situation in the south:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/lotr11-2.gif

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR11-1150AD.zip)

I got it. I actually started playing it last night, but I didn't get it completed. I hope to do so tonight.

Arathorn

Well, I'd love nothing more than than to sweep across vast tracts of land and put us into a position to have this wrapped up in another 15 turns, but I just don't see it happening. Russia's been crushed. There's not a lot to be gained, competitive-wise, by continuing to fight Cathy. Concentrating on Cleo will help us make much faster progress there. And, if Cleo crumbles well before 20 turns are up, there's always the Ottomans to kick around a bit more.

Peace and 1536 gold to Cathy for peace and Steam Power. Gotta have something for all our workers (all 7 natural ones!) to do.

With all our lands, we have ONE coal in ex-Ottoman territory. Carthage has nearly all the world's supply of coal, including a very nice Iron Works spot first-ring to their capital. It might come down to a showdown with Hannibal, but he's gracious now, so there's no sense worrying about the future.

A bunch of cash is spent on hurrying various units, buildings, etc. A few builds are switched to workers, too, in preparation for our necessary railnet.

Russia and Egypt sign MPP. Well, I guess we'll be back at war with Russia fairly soon. I had no intention of breaking any deals when I signed the peace and there was no MPP when peace was made, so I feel no guilt in attacking Egypt on their soil and triggering the MPP. It's Russia's loss. I can't change my entire plan around because of the whims of the AI.

(I) Trade cavs with Egypt.

(1) 1160 - Find bunches of workers and slaves fortified. I wish I'd've seen them last turn. Oh well. Get to work on the railroad -- military railnet is #1 priority at this point.

As expected, while pursuing normal activities against the Egyptians, their MPP with Russia triggers and Cathy foolishly declares on us again. Well, I guess we'll continue to pound her, too. I'd rather have only one front, but we've enough troops to handle two reasonably well.

(I) Russian cossack blitzes, killing one cav and dying to the second. Egypt kills a cav in a city with no losses.

Russia declares on Carthage, too, so Cathy's in for a world of hurt. Carthage has a zillion units running around. Ottomans are feeling the sting already, too, having lost two cities past our zone.

(2) 1170 - Still healing in the south, but we'll be ready to attack next turn. Maneuvering near Russia, but it's slow going vs. large cultural borders. And lots of working on the RR with slaves. At least we're industrious, but I would like another 50 workers. We don't have a lot of pop to spare, though.

(I) Kill Russian rifle, 3 Egyptian cavs in defense with no losses, but Sparta flips to Egyptians. AARGH! I'd just rushed a temple, there, too, to get spices into range. I should have troops to divert to recapture it though.

(3) 1180 - Recapture Sparta and 808 gold, for the loss of one cav (vs. 2 rifles). Raze Giza with no losses.

(I) Egypt manages to find 7 cavalry to throw at our only semi-guarded army and kills it! :cry:

Carthage takes last Ottoman city to our SW and cancels our alliance vs. Egypt. Since we were paying them Ivory, I'm happy with the development.

(4) 1190 - Bombard Pusan. It's easy to redline defenders when they're always the first hit. Two rifles defend it. Looking at our relative culture, I think I may try to capture and hold, even though it's a bit of a flip risk. But Russia doesn't appear to be too long for this world.

Super-rifle in Alexandria avoids 4 cannon blasts and does 15 straight damage to cavalry (only killing one, however) before succumbing. Overwhelming force has been brought, I believe, but it might be dicey. We succeed, but it took 13 cavalry to do so. But 1486 gold might make it all worthwhile. Raze the puppy.

Pusan is captured.

(I) Renew RoP with Hannibal. It's our only way of getting around at this point. Our empire is in tatters without it.

(5) 1200 - Little to do but heal and position. Russia and Egypt are both folding fairly fast. I have enough cash on hand to rush a couple armies pretty soon. Pre-build for Pentagon is also underway.

As usual, I either rush or partially rush a BUNCH of stuff and we still have 5556 gold. It's hard to keep up with everything.

(I) Russia comes begging for peace. We turn her away so we can continue our righteous war on Egypt. Military Academy completes. Army begun.

AARGGGHHH!!! Byblos flips, taking at least 20 units with it. That's gonna be a MAJOR setback.

(6) 1210 - Recapture Byblos and 800+ gold from 2 riflemen. My offensive has been delayed significantly by this flip, though. I had 15+ cavalry ready to go on Egyptian cities. When will I learn to just raze and replace ALWAYS?

I'm reminded why I hate RoP when I'm beginning a railnet, as Carthaginian units are clogging up my best paths to the front. Grumble, mumble.

Lose a couple cav trying to kill an Egyptian cav in the open. PRNG turned on me overnight!

(I) Carthage wins another race -- this time to Ulsan. First army completes from military academy.

(7) 1220 - Carthage in the way of everything Russian. Most troops headed south to deal with Egyptians. Down to 2489 gold, but another army is ready to roll (both were assisted by forest chops).

(I) Ottomans and Carthage make peace. The Ottomans have 3 island cities left -- they're a complete non-factor in the game.

I find myself cheering for Russian units -- AGAIN. I want some of these cities, but Carthage is clogging all routes. They have SO MANY units, it's not even close to funny.

Another lux comes on line and "We love the Instigator!" days break out in a number of cities. We get the Pentagon message, too, so the prebuild is switched over to that.

(8) 1230 - Just maneveur. That Byblos flip is still really costing me progress.

(9) 1240 - Can bombard an Egyptian city, but I don't have enough cavs on hand to finish the job. Set up a cav rush at Alexandria. We should have plenty to take the city.

Finally win a race with Carthage -- I get to Medina first. But I kill 5 rifles and leave one defending the city. I don't want to talk about this turn anymore. Is it almost over?

I'm fed up with rushing, too. Nothing I do seems to make much difference. Hopefully Lee can recover from this mess I've made.

Apparently, though, one of the Ottoman cities flipped back to them from Carthage. Good to know I'm not the only one getting bent over and shafted.

(I) Carthage kills one rifle and gets Medina. I'm not even surprised. But they raze it, which is a bit of a surprise.

(10)1250 - Lose 5 cavalry and have 4 more retreat in taking Heliolopolis. I didn't realize it was a wonder city and the amount of horseflesh required pushed the limits of what I had available.

Memphis should fall in the next few turns. A fully-healed army is on hand to help once the cannons do their thing. Be warned that the stack with the cannons has very little in the way of offensive firepower. I think there are 3 rifles in Memphis. Egypt is down to 4 cities and I think/hope that will be 0 soon enough.

An exposed cavalry near Egypt is intentional. He's trying to protect a settler behind the lines. The one near Russia is trying to slow down the Carthaginian units (~50 billion of them, at last count)


Notes:
- Once the last Russian city is gone, GUARD the way south. Else the Carthiginians will take all the Egyptian cities, too. Blockade the area in what was once Greece. We want all the cash from the Egyptian cities for ourselves.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/lotr11-1250ad.zip

Arathorn

AARGGGHHH!!! Byblos flips, taking at least 20 units with it. That's gonna be a MAJOR setback.
:confused: Why did we have so major units in a flip risk city :confused:

=====================

War turn yet again, and Hopefully Lee can recover from this mess I've made. :wallbash:

I think they were good turns. Whats a few cavs to a flip. :lol: Ahh bad luck. O well.
Now Carthage could prove interesting. I'll wait on that one.

I also left one cav on a goto. He was supposed to move to the south, but Carthage had troops in the way, so he went off exploring and I couldn't find him. He'll move on his own. But it's only one.

And as I got to thinking about it, I did make OK progress -- Egypt is minus 3 cities, Russia's almost gone, we gained a tech, and I was +1 army (+2/-1).

And, really, the front is fairly stable. The first turn will probably require healing and moving one army south. The second turn can see two cities fall (the northernmost one and the one remaining one in the east a bit). After that, cannons move on Thebes, while the armies heal and take the southern city. Thebes falls a couple turns after that -- I think Egypt will be eliminated on Lee's watch.

As for "why?", Lee....poor play on my part. Nothing more than that.

Arathorn

1250 AD (pre-turn)
I cancel workers mining by Pusan - the city is hopelessly corrupt. I cancel so other orders for our hopeless corrupt cities - the only thing worth it for those cities is a rail net.

Seeing that we have a ton of cash, and Leo's - I start the process of upgrading to rifleman. If nothing else, it may delay Carthage seeing us as a target for a few turns. I rush a few temples in cities with zero flip risk.

GACK - I find Heliopolis stacked with a 16 units including 2 armies - GACK.


1255 AD
Russia is down to one lousy city. It would be totally isolated if by a miracle we get it. I take 3 workers, wm and $7 for peace.
As we kill an Egypt cavalry we get the no-name leader.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LAK-365.jpg

I know exactly how this happens - one too many enters in the editor. What I can't believe is that a full blown development team missed this. :rolleyes:
(I) Now this is totally meaningless - Russia and Egypt embargo us. The trade embargo immediately ends as Carthage kills Russia.
Byblos flips back to Egypt.


1260 AD
New Palenque is formed. Byblos is recaptured with $912.
(I) The Ottoman / Egypt trade embargo ends.


1265 AD
I am simply moving troops toward Egypt.


1270 AD
I just realized that NOBODY is building Smith's! Screw the army - Chichen Itza switches to Smith's due in just 20 turns.
Operation Military Rail-Net is completed in former Russia and our homeland - not much we can do about getting the Egyptian area linked.

1280 AD
I would have preferred to let Carthage and Egypt beat each other up more, but there are too many units by Memphis. We take the city and get $1515 for our troubles. I can't spend the money fast enough.
(I) Carthage razed an Egyptian city!

1285 AD
We have a tough defender in Elephantine who knocks an army down to just 2 hp. We lose a few cavalry, but capture Elephantine along with $1841.

1290 AD
We capture Thebes along with $3061 gold. We now control Bach's!
Egypt is toasted.
(I) The Pentagon completes - time to add an additional cavalry to those armies.


Summary:
I don't envy whoever gets to start the Carthage war. Carthage has a massive amount of troops.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR11-1300AD.zip

We can try forts with barricades. About 8t each on grassland. Barricades are new and are suppose to double the defensive strength. They also stop enemy movement, perfect for choke points. Suggest building a Maginot line say 3 deep.

I have the game and will play tomorrow mornong...

(0) Inherited turn.
I come back to the game to find that only the Greeks, Ottomans and Carthage are left. We have an ROP deal with Carthage that has four more turns to run, so I'm going to use this time to reposition troops at the border. Our Military is deemed to be "average" compared to theirs, in other words, the human player should be able to kick AI butt.
We have a good number of well-populated Egyptian and Russian cities, so I set some of these (population >= 6) to taxmen to increase our income.

IBT:
Many Cavalry and Riflemen complete. I guess Lee did some rushing on his last turn.

(1) 1305AD
Big decision time. I need to get a battle plan together and determine where I need to position troops.
First order of business is to fortify all cities that border Carthage. We're a little short on rifles in our southern lands, so I make sure all cities with barracks are building them, and will rush every other turn. The only city that can be attacked directly from Carthage is Leptis Minor, so this will receive the bulk of the fortifications.
The Northern side is more complicated, as there is a long line of exposed cities, all of which are within range of Carthaginian cavalry. I find a few pikemen to upgrade, every little bit helps. Switch a few additional cities to Riflemen to bolster defence.
Now onto the armies. Since Lee got the Pentagon built, I can add an additional unit to each army. It looks like the cavalry armies have already been dealt with, but there is a 3-unit Medieval Infantry army still sitting in Thermopylae. I will toughen this army up by adding a rifleman.
The many units that completed last turn are moved to their respective stacks in our core.
Looks like Carthage has acquired Communism. We'll beat it out of him later.

IBT:
Carthage finally gets around to starting Smith's.

(2) 1310AD
New Tikai is founded at the end of the former Egyptian landmass.
Hurry a bunch of walls in vulnerable cities. At worst, this will cause Carthage to lose more troops when attacking our cities.

IBT:
Nothing. More riflemen complete.

(3) 1315AD
Shift riflemen into border cities. All cities bordering Carthage now have walls.

IBT:
Carthage appears to be amassing cavalry around Tazumal.

(4) 1320AD
With defence set up, I cancel the ROP with Carthage diplomatically. I note that I don't have the option to request that they withdraw their troops.
They have a number of cavalry next to Tazumal, so I do some calculations, and determine that I should be able to mop up all their troops in our territory. I decide to take the initiative and...

WAR IS DECLARED ON CARTHAGE.

I begin by attacking the Carthaginian city of Oer. Two defenders are redlined with cannon, and the city is razed, relieving the cultural pressure on Mayapan. We get two workers and three cannon in the deal :)
About ten cavalry around Tazumal are wiped out, we lose three cavalry in the battle.
We have rotten RNG luck against the crusader and two cavalry outside of New Copan. In all cases the enemy unit is redlined and then our guy promptly dies :mad: I then nailed all three with our army, then screwed up and left the army exposed (damn two-move forest squares).
Carthage also has eight cavalry in range of our newly acquired cannon and workers. They can't reach Mayapan during the interturn, so I pull some defenders out of there to guard the units outside. I find another two spare riflemen in Quirigua to add to the stack.
Now I turn to the Southern army, sending a stack of cavalry (including an army) into Leptis Major. We defeat the three rifleman defenders and raze the city, losing only one cavalry. I pick off two stray workers next to our stack.
I hold my breath as I hit the spacebar and wait for the counter-attack...

IBT:
Could be better. Xcalumkin is razed after something like 8 cavalry attacks. Three riflemen were defending.
Hyangsan is also razed, although we were a little unlucky with the RNG, losing three rifles to five cavalry attacks.
Thebes riots, but it has an excess of food, so four taxmen are hired.
Lots of WLTGI days end, as we have lost the silks next to Xcalumkin.

(5) 1325AD
Assess the situation. Yes we lost two cities, but both were razed and can be replaced this turn with settlers. The good news is that none of our offensive forces were attacked (save for one bombardment by a Frigate).
Rush settler at Thermopylae to replace Letis Magna.
Rush a harbor at Byblos. The war has cut off the coal trade route through Carthage, and we cannot build rails in our southern lands.
Clear up stary cavalry in and around our borders.
I attack Hippo with one of our cavalry armies, killing two of the riflemen defenders. It takes two veteran cavalry to finish off the third, and Hippo is razed. We get a free cannon in the deal. Settler moved in to place a pristine Mayan city on the ruins.

IBT:
This time no cities are taken, although I held my breath a few times. Far fewer cavalry attacked this interturn, so hopfully I can get the Carthaginians gassed by the time the next player takes over.

(6) 1330AD
New Yaxchilán is founded on top of Hippo's ruins, bringing in an extra source of saltpeter.
Xcalumkin is rebuilt, on top of Hyangsan's ruins.
New Bonampak is rebuilt, on top of Xcalumkin's ruins.
Temples are ordered in all new cities.
Start with the South this time. I kill a bunch of riff-raff that are infesting the pristine lands around Leptis Minor, then focus my sights upon Utica. I take out two riflemen, but am unable to finish off the remaining crusader. Fortunately all units retreat and I'm able to cover them with riflemen. Then I find a couple of cavalry and kill off a longbow that's too close for comfort, and that damn crusader. But a single redlined rifleman remains in Utica.
I'll probably wait a turn before resettling Letis Magna, due to a shortage of defenders.
Has anyone noticed that pressing "R" repeatedly on a stack of workers sounds like a porn movie?

IBT:
Apart from a few frigate bombardments, there are no counter attacks. A few riflemen move around, that's about it.

(7) 1335AD
Clobber two wandering riflemen with a cavalry army. One of them was covering a settler.
Utica is finally razed. It had been reinforced with two drafted rifles, and a cavalry. We get six workers and two cannon of varying nationality. A second settler is ready, but I'll need to rush a few rifles first.
Core production is biased more towards cavalry, as we are losing fewer defenders.
Temples are rushed in our new cities.
Attack Nora with a bunch of cavalry. Kill two riflemen (one cavalry lost) and capture the city.

IBT:
A slightly more spirited attack by the Carthaginians, they even manage to kill the rifleman I had covering the two workers I had captured.

(8) 1340AD
New Lagartero is founded. Temple ordered.
Start moving cavalry into New Yaxchilán with a view to taking the Cartharginian capital, and linking our Northern and Southern lands.

IBT:
Nothing, apart from the obligatory frigate bombardments.

(9) 1345AD
New Quiriguá is founded. It could potentially be an Iron Works city, once the borders expand.
Usual troop mop-up around our borders.

IBT:
Something I'd totally forgotten about.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR11-1350AD-A.jpg

(10) 1350AD
I end my turn on a quiet note. All spare cavalry are fortified next to Copan for the next player.

The war with Carthage goes well. I was able to hit most of the first ring cities around the capital, and this should put a big dent in their production. I would go ahead and take out the capital when ready, as this will enable us link the Northern and Southern lands.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR11-1350AD-B.jpg

And the Save - 1350AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR11-1350AD.zip)

Has anyone noticed that pressing "R" repeatedly on a stack of workers sounds like a porn movie?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

=====================

Many Cavalry and Riflemen complete. I guess Lee did some rushing on his last turn.
I was rushing like crazy my whole turn. Not to mention massive troop upgrading. Tons of barracks, walls and units were built. That Egyptian cash was clearly the key to winning the Carthage war - massive improved military. Our big advatnage right now - Carthage doesn't have rails and ours are well developed. :D

=====================

Boy am I glad I caught the nobody building Smith's [dance]

=====================

Well it sounds like our losses were junk cities as the core held. On the other hand Carthage lost well developed cities. :D
Next play up gets to destroy Carthage capitol, and link the empire. I suspect former Egypt can use plenty of rail work as I didn't make much progress due to lack of workers on that front.

Looks like a really good pair of turns, guys! Egypt actually put up a bit more fight than I'd expected. And how did Carthage get to raze a city? Hadn't I warned about blocking them off once Russia fell? We should've had ample units in the area to do that, no? And as for Byblos, it had just been captured, so there was NO fliprisk on the inherited turn, hence the large garrison. I was trying to reduce resisters ASAP so we could move on.

The war with Carthage is going a LOT better than I would've expected. They sound semi-reasonably gassed. Don't forget about the three ex-Ottoman cities they have to our west. Not only could they produce some troops there and trouble us, we'll want those lands for our domination push.

Sounds like we've gone a grat job crushing the Carthaginian core. Their production will be in a major world of hurt now, so they should start falling quickly, I hope. Keep the troops moving.

Coffee -- UP NOW
Belisar -- ON DECK
Arathorn -- will I see the game again?

Arathorn

Nice turns Steve.
I guess Arathorn just wanted to give us the chance of getting a massive amount of money form Egypt by capturing their cities more than one time :lol:
If we let a lot of cities flip and recapture them, this would be nearly a 'cash-exploit' :lol:

got it.

Preturn 1350 - 0
I spend a couple a hours fidling with mm's, trying to decide my next move. I've never had great success against a
capital. Theveste is next door and has Sun's. Our stats are good for domination, 51% for area and 57 for population, 66 is needed. The soft Korean targets are high in population. I'm in good shape have 48 cav + 4 armies. It's nice to
choices.

Draft 2 citizens and rush some troops.
I use our standing cavalry to invade old Ottoman and capture 1 city.
Send 1 sacrificial cav to pillage the horses in Carthage. Send 1 cav and 1 rifle to pillage the horses in Anjar.
Hopefully thats all of the horses.
I use two armies to capture & raise Theveste, with Sun Tzu's gone I'm hoping the next Carthaginians are regulars.
Move a settler into position. Thank-you for them.
That semi-isolates the capital and disconnects one saltpeter and one silk.
I send our 3rd cav army against Hadrumetum and capture it. That gives us the silks. Looking for that WLKD.
Our domination stats go to 52 & 59. -> temples. Shuffle some troops and press enter.

Ibt, Greece offers an MPP, I decline.

1355 - 1
Capture Ankara & Cadiz in old Ottoman.
Settle New Calakmul on the ashes of Theveste and spend some cash rushing temples.
Capture P'yongyang. Stats are now 55% land & 62% population.

1360 - 2
Several small battles. Fail to capture Wonsan.
Rush some more temples.

1365 - 3
Capture Wonsan, An attack on Seoul produces a great leader.
Rush some more temples.
The cavalry is regular and the offense is mostly longbows.

1370 - 4
Capture Seoul and get several wonders including the pyramids.
Some border expansion. 57 for land 66 for population.

1375 - 5
Capture Cheju & Paegam

1380 - 6
Several expansions and we get the iron works message.
We lose our coal supply. Capture Taejon. 4% land to go.
Rush two more temples.

1385 - 7
Capture two more cities. Tried for a great leader to rush the iron works.
This should be the last or 2nd to last turn.

1390 - 8
Settle the city of New Lazapa.
Capture Orenburg and misc others (2)

And thats game. Will post the game & ending tommorrow. These were long turns. Thanx to all :D

Excellent!!!! Very well played. Demi-god is a nice step up from Emperor but not quite as painful as deity. A win during the cavalry era -- not unexpected, but very gratifying nonetheless.

Pumping up the aggressiveness on the game screen definitely does make the AIs seem to fight more -- we were at war pretty much the entire game, as were many of the AI civilizations. It wasn't quite an always war feel, but I never felt really comfortable trusting any front to hold.

Armies are now very powerful and lots of fun to use. I am finding myself building city attacks around these now-very-powerful units -- using them to move in extra spaces, use bonus attack and extra hps and blitz to minimize casualties and the faster heal makes 'em usable again in a couple turns. How cool is that?!? And with all the war, we got to play around with them a fair bit.

What's odd about the gpt bug is that we indirectly benefited from it. Egypt had all that cash because of the bug and then we stole it, along with Cleo's cities. Interesting side-effect.

Twas fun to play with all of you! Thank you.

Arathorn

:thumbsup:
Nice one guys !

Idea for LotR12 :
Always War
Demi-God
Max agression level

:D

Another great read - thanks guys! :D

:goodjob: Coffee and of course the rest of the team.

The picture and the game. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR11.zip)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR11-1390AD.jpg

Its unfortunate about the bugs but its a great group. I can't think of a single turn outside my own which I can complain about. Now about that AWD game :)