Moderartor,I have posted this in the Strategy&Tips forum and it's the wrong forum,please closed that one if needed.

I have been working on this topic for 3 days( not a long time each day ),and this is an updated version of my formula,it features ALL terrain possible around your city in civ3 , you would chop down the forests and jungles later ,wouldn't you?My formula applies to the cities fully railway overlaid and with 20 citizen population.The aim is to maximise the shield output.It's a very powerful formula in terms of the ablity to guide you through the decisions must be made between irrigation and mine.

I really do want to keep this as short as possible since last time many people got confused,and I believe there will be no confusion this time!:cool:

The formula is :
The total number of irrigated tiles (excluding irrigated flood plain)
= 0.5 ( -2 - 3xNumber of flood plain + 2xNumber of mountain + Number of hill + Number of tundra + Number of plain + 2xNumber of desert)

And once you get the answer,then that's the total number of tiles should be irrigated in your 20 working tiles(excluding irrigated flood plain) ,and obviously, mine the rest.Max shield output will be achieved.

The attach file is the full calculation if you are interested(a very small wordpad document) and the calculator GIDustin and I made for my formula.(special thanks to GIDustin for compiling the vb program:) )

Look at this typical coastal city:

http://www.osoon.com/pic/8031/55b.jpg

As you can see,there are 4 mountains , 1 hill , 5 plains , 6 grasslands and 4 water tiles(the white tile is the city itself which doesn't count as a workable tile)


The formula is:
The total number of irrigated tiles (excluding irrigated flood plain)
= 0.5 ( -2 - 3xNumber of flood plain + 2xNumber of mountain + Number of hill + Number of tundra + Number of plain + 2xNumber of desert)

Number of flood plain = 0
Number of moutain = 4
Number of hill = 1
Number of tundra = 0
Number of plain = 5
Number of desert = 0

Put these numbers in the formula :
The total number of irrigated tiles (excluding irrigated flood plain)
=0.5 (-2 - 3x0 + 2x4 + 1 + 0 + 5 + 2x0)
=6

Now this tells you that you should irrigate 6 tiles,if you do this then maximum shield output will be achieved for this coastal city.You could irrigate 2 grassland and 4 plains or 3 grasslands and 3 plains.....................etc.This doesn't matter,there are 6 irrigated tiles is the key.

Look at this special example :

http://www.osoon.com/pic/8031/57b.jpg

As you can see,there are 5 flood plains , 8 grasslands and 7 hills(the white tile is the city itself which doesn't count as a workable tile)

The formula is:
The total number of irrigated tiles (excluding irrigated flood plain)
= 0.5 ( -2 - 3xNumber of flood plain + 2xNumber of mountain + Number of hill + Number of tundra + Number of plain + 2xNumber of desert)

Number of flood plain = 5
Number of moutain = 0
Number of hill = 7
Number of tundra = 0
Number of plain = 0
Number of desert = 0

Put these numbers in :
The total number of irrigated tiles (excluding irrigated flood plain)
=0.5 (-2 - 3x5 + 2x0 + 7 + 0 + 0 + 2x0)
=-5

I call this a special example because you got a negative number.What this means you don't irrigate any tiles at all,just mine all of them!(of course for flood plain you have to irrigate them as you can't mine on flood plain)If you look back at the screen shot,there are so many productive food tiles of course you don't need to irrigate any of them.

Reserved

Here is an example city involve tundra and desert.(please read through,this is very simple):

http://www.osoon.com/pic/8031/53b.jpg

Same colors correspond to the same type of tiles,the white tile is the city itself.As you can plainly see, there are 2 flood plains , 3 mountains , 3 hills , 2 tundras , 4 plains , 1 desert and 5 grassland

The formula is:
The total number of irrigated tiles (excluding irrigated flood plain)
= 0.5 ( -2 - 3xNumber of flood plain + 2xNumber of mountain + Number of hill + Number of tundra + Number of plain + 2xNumber of desert)

Put the numbers in:
The total number of irrigated tiles (excluding irrigated flood plain)
= 0.5 (-2 - 3x2 + 2x3 + 3 + 2 + 4 + 2x1 )
=4.5

Now isn't this easy,this result means that as long as you irrigate 4.5(5) tiles around your city(excluding irrigated flood plain) then you have achieved the maximum shield outcome possible for this particular city!No matter how you do it,you can irrigate 2 grasslands,2 plains,1 desert,or 5 grasslands, 0 plain,0 desert,however you like but the outcome will be the same and five irrigated tiles is the key for this city!

Don't trust me on this?Well,try this.Take the option of irrigating 2 grasslands,2 plains,1 desert.After full railway development :

one irrigated grassland =4 food x 2 =8
one mined grassland =2 food x 3 =6

one irrigated plain =3 food x 2 = 6
one mind plain =1 food x 2 = 2

one irrigated desert =2 food x 1 = 2
one mined desert =0 food x 0 = 0

one hill(must mine) =1 food x 3 = 3
one mountain(must mine) =0 food x 3 = 0
one tundra(must mine) =1 food x 2 = 2
one flood plain(must irrigate)=5 food x 2 = 10

And the number of food together:

8+6+6+2+2+0+3+0+2+10=39

However don't forget the city itself produces 2 food,so that's 39+2=41 food.It's the exact amount of food you need for 20 working citizen to maximise you shield outcome,as 1 citizen needs 2 food!When you are wasting the minimum food on specialist then you are producing the maximum shield possible!

Not everyone has vb installed. Try compiling this to an EXE or ask steph to do it for you.

- GIDustin

I made it a cgi script for my own uses. If others want to use it, feel free.

http://www.civ3files.com/cgi-bin/Irrigate.cgi

BTW How come the # of grasslands is not in the equation and what happens to the# of water squares?

- GIDustin

If you have the patience(which is simple maths,just long) to read about the calculation process you downloaded along with the calculator,you will discover the grassland and water could be canceled during the simplifying process.Trust me on this one,my formula is correct and I've done many tests with various different cities,grassland and water definitely will not be in the equation.You can read some of my examples above,they all work and expressed simply.

GIDustin,thank you for your advice.I have tried your link,it works pretty well.May I ask who is steph?full user name?

hmmmm gonna try this out on tonights game :) thanks! should make micro-managing all those dang workers a little easier! ;)

Steph is the username of someone on the forums who uses VB AFAIK.

Also, could you add support for mods? Like in my mod, you can irrigate hills and tundra. Also, are other things taken into consideration like GOvernment (remember despotism thing), whether or not the civ is agricultural, whether or not the city has a harbor (for increase sea/coast food) and other factors. If you rewrite a formula including all of those, I will edit my script as well.

- GIDustin

I have given steph a private message,if the username is 'steph',then I should have sent the message to the right person.

Also, could you add support for mods? Like in my mod, you can irrigate hills and tundra.

Of course I can.What I need is the exact amount of food,shield hills, tundra will produce after they are irrigated,mined and railway overlayed.

Also, are other things taken into consideration like GOvernment (remember despotism thing), whether or not the civ is agricultural, whether or not the city has a harbor (for increase sea/coast food) and other factors. If you rewrite a formula including all of those, I will edit my script as well.

About the agricultural civ,I don't know exactly what it does is the problem,because I don't have PTW,but Conquest is coming out tomorrow,so I should get it in two days.What I assume about aricultural civ is they irrigate faster?more food produced in central city square itself?or else?
For other things in your quote,there is a simple answer.My formula is for those cities which are fully railway overlayed,with harbor(if coastal city),not under despotism production penalty.Because the aim of my formula is to maximise the shield output so there is no point in doing such calculation if the shield output can't maximised.i.e.some tiles without railway,no harbor,under despotism.

Originally posted by GIDustin
Steph is the username of someone on the forums who uses VB AFAIK.
- GIDustin

Then you don't know very far ;)
I'm using C++ for SBB and CEC, and C# for SSS

Oh,this is great,can you help me with this presumably small task for you?

Steph: I was guessing really. kangyio, If you cannot find someone to compile it, i will install my DeVry copy of VB and help ya out.

- GIDustin

GIDustin,if you can do that then that is greatly appreciated,thank you.Apparently steph sent me a message and refused to help me because he is not using vb.

This is extremely useful! Hopefully you can incorporate bonus resources into the equation, though that would complicate things more.

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man
This is extremely useful! Hopefully you can incorporate bonus resources into the equation, though that would complicate things more.

Ah,finally,someone metioned the critical point------the bonus resource.I will do this in the name of maths:cool: ,but some exams are coming,so I have to reconsider the distribution of my time.But don't worry,I will finish the job completely.

Originally posted by kangyio
My formula is for those cities which are fully railway overlayed,with harbor(if coastal city),not under despotism production penalty.Because the aim of my formula is to maximise the shield output so there is no point in doing such calculation if the shield output can't maximised.i.e.some tiles without railway,no harbor,under despotism.
Well, this is obviously for later in games then. How do you take Longevity into account? Or is no growth assumed to be a prerequisite of the calculator?

Originally posted by superslug

Well, this is obviously for later in games then. How do you take Longevity into account? Or is no growth assumed to be a prerequisite of the calculator?

Yes,it is for later in games,in the early stage when you need to develop a city you will always want to increase population first,will you not?Apparently you haven't read my calculation process,if you would download it,you just need to read the first paragraph which will answer all your question.(no any big maths in the first paragraph)

Originally posted by kangyio
Yes,it is for later in games,

You should make that clear by editing the first post of this thread. Otherwise when posters click on the link in your sig, they're more than likely looking for help with the early game shield/pop balance, when it's far more critical.

Point taken.:)

I'm glad to see your first post isn't as misleading now. The reason I suggested it is because the majority of players sifting through these threads simply aren't going to read every post. While I'm sure the community will appreciate your contribution, it doesn't earn you the right to stick your nose in the air.

Besides, your 'work' would be easier to read through if you bothered spacing after your periods.

I'm glad to see your first post isn't as misleading now. The reason I suggested it is because the majority of players sifting through these threads simply aren't going to read every post. While I'm sure the community will appreciate your contribution, it doesn't earn you the right to stick your nose in the air.

Besides, your 'work' would be easier to read through if you bothered spacing after your periods.

???
I am sorry if I said something wrong,I do not intend to offend anybody on any situation at any time.You seem to have taken my last post very seriously,I am deeply sorry for the word I posted if you found that offensive.I'll just change that to 'point taken',is that ok now?:rolleyes:

Thanks for your work on this, Kangyio. I haven't read through it in detail, but it looks like it will be very useful.

Don't take the irritation expressed by other posters too much to heart. Many people only want to criticize and seem to forget the amount of work someone like you has put into a project such as this. It is not as if you are compelled to do it. You do it because you want to help. Sometimes the people who are quick to criticize forget that.

Zagnut: Kangyio and I made peace via PM. His work is indeed going to be a helpful contribution to players.

I finally got around to compiling this for everyone.

- GIDustin

(Note: The new file is in EXE format so anyone can use it)

That's a very simple to use interface. I like it! I was far far too harsh earlier about this. You see, all of my current Civ games are for the HOF, and this will come in very handy each game. When I've got most of the land irrigated and all railroaded, I want to build Longevity as quickly as possible for the score boost. This tool will allow me to maximize the shields without dropping the population!

So it worked? There were a few problems I ran into (kangyio renaming files for ease, but then the program couldnt find them) so I had to re-do parts of it.

I like the interface too, but I still wish there was a way to change certain values, like a checkbox for despotism, and a checkbox for harbor, and also boxes where you can input the food/shield value of the different types of terrain so that it can be used on modded versions of civ3 as well. Perhaps if I learn that formula, I can add the boxes myself...

- GIDustin

Sorry I haven't been around recently to say thank you to you GIDustin,I downloaded your calculator,it's a wonderful exe program.
This formula is getting old as the new terrains appear in conquest,I haven't been able to update this as soon as possible due to other things I have to sort out first.Now I'm pretty much done,so I guess the addition of marsh terrain etc could be put into the calculation.Or indeed as GIDustin suggested,whether we could find a general way of doing this in any given mod with different terrain properties to the original game.(Am I daydreaming here :) )

I am really sorry all my screen shots are gone,my pictures in my site have been deleted without informing me by my classmate!!She added some extremely low quality pictures about nothing......
I don't want to mention that ******** anymore.

GIDustin,I have updated my first post with the compiled calculator posted,thank you again for the great work.

No problem :)

If you make another to support mods or the conquests terrain or whatever, let me know and I will compile it for you again.

- GIDustin

I get "run-time error 13: Type mismatch" when I use the following inputs: 12 floodplains, 4 desert, 3 mountains, 1 hill.

edit: I figured it out. This error occurs if zeroes are not entered for the terrain that does not exist. Maybe the next release will allow the user to omit the zeroes?

I have also made an Irrigation Calc too if anyone is interested. No crash bugs AFAIK and its a little more user friendly/quicker to use :)

nice calc, excite! Thumbs up!

Now I will embarass you: I almost never use these calcs, in the early game I do not need them and in the late game I rarely care. But it is a really well done programme. Someone should combine all those tools, especially ainwoods seedbeast and such calculators like this and the combat calcs. :)

I just had to update my calc due to Pause/Break actually being the pause key in Civ3 multiplayer. This has now been changed to F12 or the "-" key.

The link to the calc in my previous post has been updated to the new version :)