Civ: Zululand
Version: Vanilla 1.29
Land Mass: Continents
Map Size: Large
All victory options turned on.

Open to Discussion:
-------------------
land percentage
level (min Regent, max Emperor)
world age
world climate

Idea:
-----
To get a diplomatic win but we must have a minimum of 5 future techs before having a UN vote. The idea is that several civs may be about to complete spaceships and thus we shall need to take out some capitals.

Optional Rules, open to discussion
----------------------------------
If we go to war we must leave a civ with at least 5-10 cities, to stop us leaving civs with just one city with no chance of providing future trouble.

This sounds like a fun idea, a good mix of various concepts. Playing in your other game has been fun, so I assume this will be no different :)

I don't really have any preference for the various stats of the world, but I'd say Monarch or Emperor for the difficulty, so we get a good challenge.

Okay your in :)

Order
-------

1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser
3) zurichuk
4) flamingmoose
5) Bede
6) Gormdragon

this one sounds like alot of fun, being oppressive and controlling without wiping out and then doing some serious sucking up for the UN, if you don't mind the same disciples following you around then I'm game for the challenge (also think regent is too easy btw but emperor may be too far, who knows)

I've never played an SG before, but there's a first time for everything I guess. I just moved moved to monarch (pretty straightforward victory and breaking that elusive 3704 point barrier :goodjob: ), so if you're not playing emperor I'd like to join in.

BJ

Welcome to the team zurichuk and flamingmoose.

I have been thinking about this SG this morning and I think we will need to play on Emperor to keep the game interesting in the modern era.

However do not fear flamingmoose, you will find it much different in an SG, you pay a lot more attention to what you are doing to avoid letting the team down. I usually play on Regent or Monarch in my own games but I am happy to play any level for SG's.

Some thoughts for the game, firstly the level. As we are going for a end of modern era victory it would be more interesting if we are not the super power at the begining of the era, thus I figure the harder level the better.

We must get the UN, the idea of tactical voting until we get 5 future techs does not appeal.

As the over dominate civs start their space ships we are going to want to take them out, as we are going for a diplo win we are going to need as many little civs around as possible to vote for us. That is going to make the medival era important for keeping the little guys around, lots of MP's to make them gracious.

BTW I am happy to play with a team of 4 but I shall wait another 24 hours to see if we get any more players, I think 6 would be ideal as I like to play got in 24 and play in 48 it means with more players you can skip people more easily.

Hmmmmm,

Would like to join in.

Played a lot of solo civ, since 1993, I think, starting with CivI, but have only recently payed enough attention to it, to play SG's. And I got distracted by work and, uh, RR Tycoon.

Bede, the humble Irish monk

Oh, all right, emperor it is then. I'm gonna lose my SG-virginity anyway, so it might as well be memorable :D

Excellent!!

Welcome Bede to the team :)

If this is on regent or monarch, I could join. :)

Forced warring with Diplomatic victory in mind?? This sound fun, any space for me?

Okay Gormdragon your in :) We will need a good warmonger

Wizard we will be playing on Emperor, but in an SG it is not so bad playing a level above what you normally play. Let me know if you want to play I am sure we can squeeze you in :)

I guess that is the rooster full. I will generate a start tonight and post it.. maybe I will play the first 20 as well depending how bad the start looks :P

I shall create a map that is on large continents with random climate and age. Barbs average, no Acc Prod., no culturally linked starting positions.

Any choice for starting tech? or should we be researching at all at this stage?

Aim will be for two scouts and a warrior for MP, then a granary.

Let me know if you disagree with any of the above before this evening :)

Do you know what are the starting 2 techs of Zulu? I have never played Zulu's before so am extremely ignorant. :blush:

Warrior Code and Pottery
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/cia/zulus.shtml
:)

I don't usually play them either!! I think their UU is next to useless.

At some stage we will have to decide when we want our GA and how we are going to get it.

Okay, these are the wonders that will trigger our GA...
Colossus
Great Wall
Lighthouse

Leonardos
Art of War
Copernicus
Magellan's
Universal Suffrage

Manhattan Project
Seti Program

roughly in order of ages??

Err, I think our Impi will trigger GA before any Wonder.

BTW, it's "gormdragan" not "gormdragon". gorm is good enough. :D

Maybe if we want our GA that early.

I have become quite fond of GA's in republic, you get a lot of shields for you money :)

I used to swear by early GA's but I am not so sure now. We may want those sheilds for a decent army in the modern age.

If AI decides to attack us, it is next to impossible to avoid a victory with our Impi. We can try holding off but I wouldn't count on it.

Some thoughts on this variant

(1) We need to avoid unnessary violence to avoid making too many enemies for our UN votes.

(2) On the condition of avoiding 1CC AIs, what is the opinion on genocide? Is it legal in this variant?

(3) We need to expand as much as we can as there is little gain we can make if we leave AI with 5-10 cities.

(4) I think emphasis would be production and expansion, and go low on units. Fold when threatened, and build up our power base in the meantime.

Some good points gorm, I agree with the emphasis on getting a good production base. I think we should keep the weaker civs around and make them love us as much as possible. We will not be able to rely on the stronger civs votes as we may have to take out their capitals.

I am going to start now, I will go for no research and rely on getting some good goodie huts seeing as we are expansionist :)


A couple of quick things

As we are going to win via a UN vote AI attitudes towards us a critical, so if you have not done so please read this article


http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_ai_attitude.shtml


And

Here are LKendter's Rules (we shall play by these)
----------------------------------------------------------------

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RCP (Ring City Placement) - A new tactic that exploits a hole in the corruption calculation. 3 cities at the same distance from the FP / palace suffer the same amount of lower corruption. I feel this turns the game into a mathematic formula.

RoP Rape - if you have to ask...

RoP Abuse that includes things such as irrigating all tiles with a city building wonders, denying resources with a RoP, putting a unit to block a land bridge, etc.

Scout resource denial - parking a scout on a resource, as the AI won't ask scouts to leave. The same scenario also applies to workers.

False Peace Treaties (must wait for the 20 years to end).

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

Resources disconnect / connect exploit - I consider most resource tactics fine. Delaying to hook a resource, trading it away etc is fine. The exploit is to do this every turn. Build a stack of horses, connect saltpeter, upgrade to cavalry, and disconnect.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.


Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.
2) No worker purchases before 1000BC to avoid civ crippling.
3) Declaring war / demanding leave solely for the purpose of getting out of trade deals.
4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.
5) Our trading reputation is golden - please respect it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/start3.jpg


The 4000BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/start.SAV)

Start doesn't look too good. We might want to move the worker and scout to see the surrounding, before settling.

Turn 1: 4000BC
--------------
The soon to be great civilisation of the zulu's is born and the first great descision of their existence is raised... to move the settler or not to move the settler.. is that coast??

Move the scout to have a closer look!!

It has one food and is massive, I guess thats the sea... That position next to the sea and a river and wine with possibly a forest on the borders is too good.. I move the settler :o

Worker actions?? This is not going to be a 4TSF, we are surrounded by hills.. will go and mine the wines first for 2 sheilds and 2 food.

Turns out that there is no forest on our borders, just hills as far as the eyes can see..

Turn 2: 3950BC
--------------
The great capital of Zululand is built Zimbabwe...
production is set to a scout in 5 turns, growth in 10 turns.

A look at the map shows that we are in the centre(ish) of the map, so I will send our scout south to find better lands for our future cities and hopefully a 4TSF.

Set research to 0%


Turn 3: 3900BC
--------------
Set research to The Wheel as we can not pop what we are researching..

Turn 4: 3850BC
--------------

Turn 5: 3800BC
--------------
Sure enough our scout discovers more fertile ground just south of Zimbabwe with a great river running through it

Turn 6: 3750BC
--------------

Turn 7: 3700BC
--------------
Zimbabwe Scout -> Scout

This scout will go west to look for more fertile land

Turn 8: 3650BC
--------------

Turn 9: 3600BC
--------------
Discover spices and a flood plain south near the great river

Turn 10: 3550BC
---------------

Turn 11: 3500BC
---------------

Turn 12: 3450BC
---------------
Zimbabwe's culture grows and size grows :)
It will grow again in 20, we can build a settler in 10.. so in 10 turns it will be time to start a settler for a 4TSF near the great river south of Zimbabwe.
Our third scout is built so I go for a warrior in 4 now for MP and then another warrior in 5 for a guard for the settler due in 20.
Although this is all wrong because the mine on the grapes will be done in 2.. i will review it all then.

Scout 3 will head north into the mountians.

Scout 2 finds silks in the jungle to the west.

Scout 1 pops a goodie hut and gets Ceremonial Burial

No MP so lux to 30%

Turn 13: 3400BC
---------------

Turn 14: 3350BC
----------------
Scout 1 meets the romans, they know Alphabet but not pottery, however they do not wish to swap knowledge with us at this stage.

Worker completes mine and starts road, their is not a lot of point in mining another square yet as I plan to have a settler out next time zimbabwe grows.

Warrior now complete in 1 and a settler can be complete in 8


Turn 15: 3300BC
---------------
Warrior is built..
17 turns until Zimbabwe grows..
Scout in 3
Warrior in 3
Settler in 8
so want to start a settler in 9 turns.. build another 2 scouts and then a warrior

Now have MP in Zimbabwe and so drop Lux to 0%

Scout 1 finds Romes border near several Gems in the mountains
Scout 3 finds the northern coast
Scout 2 finds more Jungle


IBT
---
First settler warrior pair released from Rome :( Bet their going towards those spices...

Turn 16: 3250BC
---------------

Turn 17: 3200BC
---------------

Turn 18: 3150BC
---------------
Scout -> Scout

This scout will explore the region near us a bit better

Turn 19: 3100BC
-----------------
Scout 1 meets the Aztecs and trades Pottery + 60gld for Bronze working

Turn 20: 3050BC
---------------
Scout 3 sees a goodie hut to the north




Wow thats what I call a tough start.. I hope those decisions were okay with everyone..

Plans for Zimbabwe is to get a settler out of there ASAP to get a decent location for a 4TSF near the great river just south of Zimbabwe.


My defense for moving the settler is for food, we would not of been able to have a harbour were it was.. now however it can grow big and have amazing production from those hills.

Heres the great river and were I think our 4 turn settler factory should go, or at least near here.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/main1.jpg

Heres were the spices are, however we may lose those to the romans

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/main2.jpg

Towards the north west there is a lot of jungle and some silks

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/thenorth.jpg



And heres the save
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM2-3050BC.SAV

1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser (up next)
3) zurichuk (on deck)
4) flamingmoose
5) Bede
6) Gormdragon

Please keep it to a got in 24 and played in 48, otherwise you will be skipped.

Thanks :)

I think this is an almost deadend start. We can produce only 6 food at pop 3 and this means that we cannot grow beyond size 3. We need to make a settler soon, but this is a very bad start.

Zimbabwe is on a really crappy location. With either hills (+1food) or sea/coast(+1food until MM), we have way too much hills with no grassland/plains to grow. Looks like we are stuck with a size 3 capital until MM.

To make a 4TSF, you need +5food per turn. It does not look possible with orange spot.

BTW, i managed to pop the tech I was researching.

My 2 cents.

I agree its a very bad start, but its an SG so it makes it more fun :) can't thrash the AI everytime :P

I didn't realise you could pop what you were researching.... that saves that problem.. research is on 0% anyway. There must be a settler factory near that river somewhere even if we get 5 turns its better than Zimbabwe.

You wouldn't want me to of tried again for another start would you :o ...

keep it going, if we lose there's always HMM3

I agree we should keep going, that what makes it fun :D

My oh my.....talk about a challenging start! Well, I'll see what I can do :) Hopefully there is some kind of food bonus nearby on one of the rivers.

Got it, will play and post by sometime this evening.

Alrighty, I had a quick urge to play so I took it.

Preturn- Change research to Mysticism and give 10% research. Min science run started.

IT- Zimbawe-scout-> scout

Turn 1 (3000 BC)

Worker starts road
Scout pops hut. Harrappans give us regional maps
Move scouts. Hut spotted NW.

IT- zzz

Turn 2 (2950)

Hut popped. Kassites give us maps, showing Greek city of Sparta to N
Move scouts.

IT- zzz

Turn 3 (2900)

Hut spotted W
Scouts move

IT- Zimb-scout->settler (8 turns)

Turn 4 (2850)

NW scout contacts German spearman. They are even in tech.
NW scout also contacts Greeks. The have Alphabet, we have ceremonial burial and pottery. He’ll trade alpha for our tech, 44 g and 1gpt. No way in hell.
Move scouts

IT- zzz

Turn 5 (2800)

Scout pops Alphabet from hut
Move scouts

IT- zzz

Turn 6 (2750)

Move scouts
Germany has Masonry. They’ll take Alphabet for it. I agree.
IT- Contact Iroquois warrior

Turn 7 (2710)

Worker completes road, starts mine
Move scouts

IT- zzz

Turn 8 (2670)

Scouts move. Fertile land spotted SW of Zimb

IT- zzz

Turn 9 (2630)

Scouts move. Hut spotted near Rome.

IT- zzz

Turn 10 (2590)

Momentarily change production in Zimb to granary to give chance for settler from hut. No settler, but the Sarbardar teach us of the Wheel. Change production back to settler.

Afterthoughts

Well, I think we’ll be able to do OK once we have a few cities out in the good terrain that we have around our capital. After the settler is done in Zimb, I suggest making a granary so we don’t have to wait so insanely long for growth.




http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM3a.JPG


The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM2-2590BC.SAV)

Good going, the land around us looks good if only we could get some settlers :P

This should be an interesting SG :) The other two I am playing in are a bit of a white wash, its about time for a challenge :)

There are at least two other luxeries up for grabs to go with our wine. Plus there must be iron in all of those hills and mountains and pleny of desert for oil.

Anyway zurichuk its your turn to lead the zulus into a great future...


1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser
3) zurichuk (up next)
4) flamingmoose (on deck)
5) Bede
6) Gormdragon


BTW has anyone found a good site for a 4TSF? We are going to need one now, we are likely to be at least four cities behind by the time we have it up and running.

The area around the wheat and the floodplain might be able to become, although the corruption might keep it from bringing in the necessary shields.

With the decent land we have around, we don't necessarily need one great 4-turn factory. If we manage to get 3-4 cities that can produce settlers and a decent pace, we'll be good.

Also, in the future I think we should certainly try to relocate our palace into the middle of the continent, right in the midst of that beautiful grassland and rivers.

this is a GOT IT post, any hints on the next city location?

I'd say SW of Zimbabwe on the river or something...not too far yet...we just need a second city that has some food. The grassland will help that for now.

My attempt at a dotmap.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM3a.jpg

Blue looks like a food power house but there isn't enough shield production to make a 4 turn settler.

Orange, Grey, Yellow, Red and Blue are good locations, I would try to jump the palace to yellow if we have the chance.

Green captures horses and Cyan captures silk.

My priority are

(1) avoid settling on BGs.
(2) try to get immediate access to BGs.
(3) try to get river access.

Dot map looks good.

Please read rules at begining of thread, which includes rules about palace jumps :) If the palace needs to move it must be built brick by brick or with a leader

I like the dots as well. I'd say we make red our first priority, then green or blue.

Edit: changed the colors I stated. Think I've been up a little too long :crazyeye:

thanks for the dotmap, gormdragan, much appreciated

i have a question now, want to consult as this is not a good start, I've got to the stage where I have the settler, I'm about halfway into my turns, the red dot is obviously the closest, but still looks like 20 turns until growth to size 3, however could it be worth building on the blue spot first? It would take 5 more turns to get there but ultimately it may be more profitable.

edit many cross posts :-), red was my first instinct, just thought I'd ask :-), any other opinions?, I'll wait a while and then finish

I gues the issue is with corruption, the blue dot will not make as many sheilds because a) there are not many there and b) it is far away from the capital for despotism and thus we will get corruption.

The dot map is good however we need to start generating settlers quickly, I think may be on the hill near the wheat would be a good place to start churning out settlers.. get the worker over there as well to start improving the land as well.

That hill would be good because it will be able to farm the plains and get lots of food plus it will have hills near it for lots of sheilds.

There is not a lot of point thinking about the best place for cities when we have no settlers to build them. Top priority is a site with good food and sheild generating possabilities.

Yeah the more I think about it the more I like that hill, we may have to MM that city to get settlers out quickly but its the best site I can see at the moment.

I think we have to go for getting another city down ASAP. That why red seems good...not as much food as we would like, but it'll suffice. At least then we'll have two slow growing cities to squeeze settlers out of instead of one :lol:

Edit: Thinking a little more now, maybe the food will be more helpful, even if it is at a farther distance. Also, since it is only our second city, it won't be too corrupt even if it is a ways out. That is, until we plop down a city thats closer to the capital. It would be fairly productive for a while though.

I think red will suffice. It has an immediate BG (Horray!!!) and one more grassland, and a forest. if we can get a temple up quick, it is sufficient for our 2nd city.

With regards to Palace jump, I am in full agreement with you. I have never done a FPP before, and I do consider that as an exploit (any AI does not do is considered an exploit, IMHO - BTW, a forced FPP because we destroyed their capital does not count :D ). In any case, until we have more than 8 cities, corruption is not very significant and we should be able to get a GL to rush it.

I would settle blue as our 3rd and settler factory. It has 4 floodplains+1 wheat. Now that is some serious food maker.

Then I would go for yellow next (2 immediate BG), which is a power shield producer.

Then I would go for green for our 1st horse resource.

We can see where we go from there.

Not much to check

IT German Spearman comes into view, we have a lot of civs around

2550BC (1)

Greece and the Romans already have 3 cities, Germany, the Iroquois and the Aztecs have 2.
Germany (Annoyed) are down the Wheel, have 48 gold
Greece (Annoyed) are down the Wheel, have 10 gold
Rome (Annoyed) are down Masonry, Pottery and The Wheel, have 35 Gold
Aztecs (Polite, bless him) are down Masonry, Alphabet and the Wheel, have 80 Gold
Iroquois (Cautious) are down Alphabet and The Wheel, have 12 Gold

eyeing up the gold I trade Masonry to the Aztecs and the Romans for all their Gold before they meet the others, don't want the trade the Wheel yet

move scouts around, no huts

IT

Zimbabwe - Settler - Warrior

2510BC (2)

no trades, Iroquois now have 3 cities
scouts explore

IT

scout sees Greece make contact with the Iroquois

2470BC (3)

scouts explore more
no change diplomacy


2430BC (4)

scouts explore
roman warrior appear dangerously near our settler
no change diplo

IT

I appologize to Germany for scouting their ground

2390BC (5)
scouts explore, consult team on BB, need some ideas, settler moves towards hill

2350BC (6)
Zimbabwe - warrior - warrior
still no movement in diplo

2310BC (7)
the usual

2270BC (8)
pop Horse Riding
barbs appearing all around now
found Ulundi on hill near BG
The Wheel discovered by 3 civs simultaneously, ****, trade it to Iroquois for all their gold

2230BC (9)
moving worker and warrior towards Ulundi

trade The Pottery and The Wheel plus 30 gold for Iron Working from the Romans
2190BC (10)

Apologies to Greece for scouting their territory
Zimbabwe - warrior - warrior (can be vetoed)
spot another goody hut

OK, I thought about this for a long long time and tried to analyze the growth in my mind, I plumped for the city on the hill and I think while it took a few turns longer to settle we should benefit in the longer term, the Red site takes 20 turns for each setter from size 1


Greece already have 6 cities, 10 gold and are down Horse Riding
Germans are down HR, IW, have 3 cities and 73 Gold
Romans have 3 cities, IW, 35 Gold and are down HR
Aztecs have 2 cities, 0 Gold and are down IW and HR
Iroquois (I always have trouble typing that) have 4 cities, 0 Gold and are down IW and HR

we are not boxed in so hopefully we can recover from the start we've been given, next player good luck! Sorry Gormdragan for negating your hard work with the dotmap

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM2__2190 BC.SAV)

now for some conquests :) , had it a day but PBEM's, SG's and a grand finale in an epic PTW game has prevented me from playing

looks good zurichuk, these first few turns are going to be hard work..

1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser
3) zurichuk
4) flamingmoose (on deck)
5) Bede (up next)
6) Gormdragon

Got in 24 and play 48

Am I playing or on deck? Anyway, the link doesn't seem to be working...
Back to the rugby now - good stuff!

Sorry, Corrected link (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM2__2190_BC.SAV) Just seen the rugby score :beer: [dance] [dance] :band:

Congrats on the rugby. I was actually rooting for the Aussies, but I'm dutch, so what do I know.
I'm going to assume that Hmmmm's last batting order was a typo and that I'm up. Soooo... got it!

Ok, I'm in doubt here. And, since I'm going to a party now, finishing off my turn with a hangover tomorrow, I'm going to consult the team. I have popped a settler. We can send him back to the Ulundi region, but that will take around 20 turns. Besides that there's the risk he won't make it at all, with those barbs hanging around. So I'm leaning towards settling one tile northeast. We can access the gold and connect it with a harbor.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/settler.JPG

Any thoughts? I'm going for Indonesian food, and I already have a cold. A winning combination! And :beer: obviously.

I'd say risk it and bring it back home. We're sure to have iron in our lands with all the hills, and having a city isolated like that will probably tempt the Romans a bit too much for the time being. Just hope we don't encounter any barbs, I guess.

i'd go with kaiser_berger, you can always keep the scout around it to give it a better chance

Okay, first SG, first emperor game - lot of cherries here!
Let's check our neighbours (let's not call them friends just yet - they don't seem to think we're friends):

Germany (what's he called anyway, Otto?), annoyed, 73g, we're up HBR and IW
Monty, polite, broke, we're up HBR and IW
Hiawatha, see Monty
Caesar, annoyed, 35g, we're up HBR
Alex, annoyed, 10g, we're up HBR

2150 (1)

Scout #1 is in the middle of land we already know, and I don't know where he came from. I send him north to clear up some spots, then he will follow the Village People and Go West. The warrior moves into Ulundi. I pop the hut aaaand.. we've got a settler. I'm walking to the fridge while I think what to do with this fellow. Ok, apparently there are barbs around, so I figure it's too risky to send this guy all the way back. On the other hand - we need to grow.
Time to consult the team on the settler issue.

While I :bday: -party, :beer:, :sleep: the team advises:

Ok, we're gonna bring him home.

2110 (2)

Zimbabwe grows, change production to barracks, due in 3.
Exploring, no change diplomatics.

2070 (3)

Ulundi warrior -> granary
Worker mines BG west of Ulundi
Exploring - scout/settler duo spots goody hut
No change diplomatics.

2030 (4)

We have learned mathematics. No change diplomatics, so we're gonna hold on to that one for now.
Exploring - park one scout next to a barb camp. Oops... Iroquois warrior nearby, hopefully he'll take the hit.

IT: Iroquois warrior takes care of the barb camp.

1990 (5)

Zimbabwe barracks -> granary
No change diplomatics, except Iroquois are not broke anymore.
Exploring.

Bismarck complains about trespassing, we apologize.
IT: Iroquois are building Pyramids

1950 (6)

Diplomacy: Hiawatha seems to have discovered IW.
Exploring.

1910 (7)

Exploring. Settler/Scout pair are approaching roman territory, I decide to send out a warrior from Uluni to meet them (probably should've done this earlier, sorry 'bout that).
No change diplomatics.

IT: Barbs in sight of settler/scout, but I'm confident we can outrun them.

1870 (8)

Ulundi grows. Exploring - more barbs. We run.
No change diplomatics.

IT: Germans also building pyramids.

1830 (9)

The settler/scout pair won't be able to outrun the barb going north of Cumae, so we'll take the south route.
Worker finished mine, starts road.
No change diplomatics.

1790 (10)

Exploring, no change in diplomatics.

So, that's my first stint on emperor. Hope you like it, either way, you're stuck with it :)
Our situation: technologically we're two techs clear of everyone we know (HBR, Math). We're rich (213, +4). We lag in cities, but there's a settler on its way and granaries are being built in both cities.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/barbwarning.JPG

Settler/scout are south-east of Cumae, there's a barb east of Cumae. If he gets around the north side of Cumae our warrior (top left in the picture) wil already be here to help us out - if some roman hasn't already done that. The scout in the top right is heading for unexplored territory that's undoubtedly the home of barbs. But we still want to know what's there right?

Here's the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM2-1790BC.SAV)

Good job keeping the settler safe! I think we're in the clear now, we should be able to get him back up to our territory without much of a problem.

1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser
3) zurichuk
4) flamingmoose
5) Bede (up next)
6) Gormdragon (on deck)

Got in 24 and play 48

Okay, Bede is skipped, Gorm your up :)

1) Hmmm (on deck)
2) Kaiser
3) zurichuk
4) flamingmoose
5) Bede
6) Gormdragon (up next)

Please post a got it in 24 and play in 48..

Preturn:
Ulundi will riot once it grows, I will move the wandering war back to Ulundi as MP.

Trade IW to Germans for 73g.
Romans has Mysticism, no point continuing our 40-turn gambit, switch to currency.

We have mathematics+HBR monopoly.

We have way too many scouts.

Everything looks good.

1750:
Recall 2 scouts to explore the east, the west is almost done.

Roman still has his monopoly on Mysticism, so do we (Maths+HBR).

Settler does not need scout escort (how is that supposed to help?) Scout continues on East-bound in hope of catching more civs.

1725:
Rome wants HBR, I folded. (I will remember this).

Trade Maths+HBR for Writing+10g with Greeks.
Trade Maths+Writing for Mysticism+85g with Romans.
Trade HBR for 25g with Iroquois.

1700:
Trade Writing for 25g with Iroquois.

BTW, all AIs are now broke.

1675:
All AIs still broke.

1650:
Still broke. Why don't they make some workers, I would gladly give them techs for workers.

1625:
Germans want HBR, haha it's virtually worthless, here...take it.

Romans making Pyramids, Aztecs making Oracle.

AIs still broke.

1600:
Zimbabwe makes granary, starts settler.

Trade Mysticism for 25g with Germans.

1575:
Greeks wants Mysticism, haha here...take it.

1550:
AIs are broke.

1525:
AIs have some $$$.

I would settle our settler where he stands, we need to make MPs in a hurry. Hopefully the jaguar warrior will kill off the barbarian camp nearby. We can then trade our techs for the $$$.

Next better player.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM2-1525BC.SAV)

Settler does not need scout escort (how is that supposed to help?)

It doesn't garantee a safe journey for the settler, but by moving the scout first you can check if there are barbs around. You can prevent putting a settler next to a barb you didn't see before moving.

Sorry 'bout missing the mysticism in my last turn btw. :o

Why don't they make some workers, I would gladly give them techs for workers.

Again, please read the rules of this S.G.

Okay thats me up....

1) Hmmm (up next)
2) Kaiser (on deck)
3) zurichuk
4) flamingmoose
5) Bede
6) Gormdragon

This is a got it and I shall play tonight, why have I came up on all of me S.G's at the same time?? It will be a busy evening :)

hmm, sorry about the worker rule, I wasn't aware. Luckily there wasn't any workers available. :blush:


BTW, it's gormdragan, not gormdragon.

okay sorry

It's my fault actually, to have a confusing callsign :D. Gorm will do just fine.

sorry was unable to play last night so I will play tonight.

Pre-Turn
--------
Preflight checks okay
Not behind on any techs.


Turn 1 (1500BC)
---------------
Pop deserted goodie hut
Run away from barbs

Turn 2 (1475BC)
---------------
Uludi completes Granary, Temple next to expand borders

Build Bapedi near horses builds warrior first

IBT
---
Lose one scout to barbs

Turn 2 (1450BC)
---------------
Zimbabwe completes settler, starts warrior

Turn 3 (1425BC)
---------------
Nothing to report

IBT
---
Apologise to Iroquios for being in their terriotory
The Iroquios are building the Oracle

Turn 4 (1400BC)
---------------
Run into more barbs with scout, guess we lose another :(

IBT
----
Lose another scout

Turn 5 (1375BC)
---------------
Nothing to report

Turn 6 (1350BC)
---------------
Zimbabwe Warrior -> Warrior

Turn 7 (1325BC)
---------------
Ulindi about to riot-> lux to 10%


IBT
---
Loss another scout.. sorry

Turn 8 (1300BC)
---------------
Zimbabwe Warrior->Warrior
This one goes to Bapedi

Turn 9 (1275BC)
---------------
Nothing to report

IBT
---
Inquous demand Mathematics, we have no military so I cave in, we will remember this

Turn 10 (1250BC)
----------------
Zimbabwe Warrior->Warrior (can be vetoed)


End of game report
------------------
not a lot to report, sorry about losing 3 scouts, not a lot I could do about two of them
I think the settler south west of Ulindi is ready to settle.


The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM2-1250BC.SAV)

Don't worry about the scouts...they served their purpose, may they now rest in peace.

I've got it, will play now and post soon I hope.

Here are my turns


Preturn- Change Bapedi to worker. All else looks good

IT- Bapedi-worker-->granary

Turn 1 (1225)

Move units about
Hlobane founded—worker
Trade our WM around. Netted map of continent and 85g

IT- Zimb-warrior-->settler

Turn 2 (1200)

Move units
Workers start irrigation and road near Bapedi
Increase lux to 30% to keep Ulundi happy

IT- Ulundi-temple-->worker

Turn 3 (1175)

Zzz

IT- zzz

Turn 4 (1150)

Zzz

IT- Ulundi-worker-->settler

Turn 5 (1125)

Buy Code of Laws from Germans for 270g and WM
Trade CoD, WM, and 70g to Iroquois for Map Making
We’re back at tech parity

IT-Roman warrior heads towards Zimb

Turn 6 (1100)

Zzz

IT- zzz

Turn 7 (1075)

Zzz

IT- Zimb-settler-->harbor
Greeks are building Oracle

Turn 8 (1050)

Move settler NW

IT- zzz

Turn 9 (1025)

Move settler NW

IT- zzz

Turn 10 (1000)

Move settler NW


After thoughts

We’re at tech parity. We’re getting cramped in fairly quickly, but with some work, Ulundi could be a 4-turn settler factory. This is most certainly going to be a tough game.

Good luck!



The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM2-1000BC.SAV)

1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser
3) zurichuk (up next)
4) flamingmoose (on deck)
5) Bede
6) Gormdragan

Got in 24 and play 48

ok got it, good turns Kaiser and co we're building back up slowly from a terrible starting pos, will play tomorrow now, have a question after looking, is it ok if i veto the harbo(u)r in Zimbabwe and maybe send out some suicide galleys for the 2nd continent (they don't need to be vets imo) or is it a prebuild for something?

Take a look around

IT
Change Zimbabwe from Harbor to Galley, hope I'm not screwing something up here, I guess we all have individual styles
Romans are annoyed and have 3 units heading towards us
Create embassy with Romans, Rome building Pyramids, due in 29
Rome are now polite (hopefully this decreases the chances of them attacking us)
Germans found Cologne too near our territory, even more boxed in now
Rome declares war on the Greeks
Aztec declares war on the Romans
Decrease lux to 10%

Ulundi - Settler - Warrior
Hlobane - worker - worker


975 BC (1)
move scouts around
move warrior out of Cologne
no diplo change, squeeze gold for WM's

IT
Having written it above - move warrior out of Cologne - I actually forgot, apologize to Bizzy and try to remember to move him this turn Roman archer and warrior move next to Bapedi


950BC (2)
Workers now roading between Ulundi and Hlobane
Aztecs now have some money (59G) so I take it for Code of Laws before the others do

IT
Lots of troop movement, we may have the ancient wars in our back garden

925BC (3)
Found Isandhlwana in jungleland
Greece now have Construction - untradable
Germans now moving troops into our territory

IT
Japan finish pyramids

900BC (4)
Create embassy with the Germans
Berlin building pyramids (he'll have to change that! Japan have got them)
Germany now polite

IT
Greeks, Germans are building the oracle
German troops turn around, lol
Berlin cascades to and finishes the Oracle
Aztecs finish Colossus

875BC (5)
Found Intombe on coast


IT
Zimbabwe - galley - galley
Greeks cascade to and finish the Great Wall

850BC (6)
Worker roading to connect lux

IT
Horsemen are now possible to build
Aztec wants to swap WM's, refuse
Rome wants an alliance v the Greeks and ROP, yeah right

825BC (7)
Nothing much
Greeks now have Philosophy, argh untradable
Send galley on suicide run

IT
Nothing

800BC (8)
Isandhlwana - warrior -warrior
Send galley further into the ocean
check rules - buy german worker for 36 gold

IT
We have currency - change to philosophy but trading beckons
Ulundi - settler - warrior
Galley goes to the bottom

775BC (9)
Trade currency to the Greeks for Philosophy, TM, WM, 188G and 2GPT
Trade currency to Germans for 116, WM, TM
Trade currency to the Iroquois for 109, WM, TM
Still not enough money to buy construction at 2nd

All AI have 0 gold

IT
Hlobane - worker - worker

750BC
Worker and scout movement
Bapedi is in disorder, still my mistake but no pop-up? , move lux to 20%


OK summary
Greece (cautious, no embassy), 11 cities, 11 gold, up construction
Germans (polite, embassy), 12 cities, 0 gold, down philosophy
Romans (polite, embassy), 11 cities, 0 gold, down philosophy and currency
Aztecs (polite, no embassy), 5 cities, 0 gold, down mathematics and philosophy
Iroquois (polite, no embassy), 10 cities, 0 gold, down philosophy

us, 6 cities, 1 settler, 5 workers, 1 slave, 10 warriors, 916 gold

good luck (my current city selections can be vetoed btw)

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM2-750BC.SAV)

we have a gpt agreement with the greeks btw

Good turns, and I don't mind at all your decision on the galley. I hadnt even thought of that for some reason, and I'm usually a suicide galley machine. Good choice in the end.....we can build a galley or two while Zimbabwe grows and then pop out a settler to help or something. Getting contact with the other continent early on would be quite profitable.

I agree, good call zurichuk

1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser
3) zurichuk
4) flamingmoose (up next)
5) Bede (on deck)
6) Gormdragan (on deck)

I still have not heard from Bede so will get skipped immediatly if not posted by the end of flamingmoose's turn.

Got in 24 and Play in 48. Although I appreciate its an american holiday at the moment :) Happy Thankgiving to you all.

I am having a busy thanksgiving weekend and may not be able to play until sunday, if you can't wait, go ahead and skip me.

Got it; will play right now.

Preflight: ok, flames in Bapedi but they will be gone next turn. I leave all build orders intact.

IT: Rome and Greece sign peace treaty

730 (1)

Ulundi: warrior -> settler
I notice two warriors near Isandhlwana that are out of the city for some reason? They move back to the city which instead of another warrior now builds barracks.
No change in the tech race.

BTW No popup for order restored in Bapedi either. Weird.

710 (2)

Zimbabwe galley -> galley
Instead of settling between Zimbabwe and Ulundi I decide to use the next settler for that, this one will move to the silky region northwest of Isa. Silk is connected. Moving scouts.

690 (3)

Our military advisor warns us - there's a massive barbarian uprising near Isandhlwana. Keeping in mind there's a settler moving there I change production orders back to warrior. Galley moves north along the coast.
Forgot to move the luxury slider last turn: it's on 0%!
Germany discovers polytheism, Rome discovers Construction. Alex is annoyed. We trade him WM, 304g for Polytheism and he's still annoyed.

670 (4)

Isa warrior -> barracks
Greece establishes embassey, makes 'em polite.

Galley starts suicide run.

650 (5)

Intombe barracks -> warrior
Nothing much.

IT: purple guy fighting (and winning) something outside our visibility near Isa; probably barbs.

630 (6)

Galley down. Workers working, scouts scouting.

Ulundi settler -> settler
Zimbabwe galley -> harbor
Galley meets barbs, we fight, we win.

IT: Surly looking German guy offers construction for 560g. We don't need it right away, so I'm willing to wait till the price drops.

610 (7)

Hlobane worker -> barracks

590 (8)

Damn, I lost turn - I'm writing the 610BC log, and suddenly notice the box telling me it's 590. Oh well.

IT: BUGGER! Barbs kill our galley...

570 (9)

Change Zimbabwe from harbor to galley.
Mpondo founded, trains warrior. Scouts move about cluelessly.

550 (10)

Intombe warrior -> temple

Ok, summary:
Germany is up construction, polite, 12 cities, 12g
Monty is behind math, philosophy and polytheism, polite, 5 cities, 3g
Hiawatha is behind philosophy and polytheism, polite, 13 citites, 41g
Caesar is up construction, polite, 11 cities, 7g
Alex is up construction, polite, 15 cities, 234g

We have 7 cities, a settler ready to settle. Ulundi is a 6 turn settler factory at the moment. 811g (+23).

Upload doesn't seem to work; I uploaded the file to my own site: SAVE (http://www.xs4all.nl/~bfransen/misc/hmm2_550bc.sav)

1) Hmmm (on deck)
2) Kaiser
3) zurichuk
4) flamingmoose
5) Bede (suspended until a post is made in this SG)
6) Gormdragan (up next)

Got it..... I will play tomorrow. :D

Thats cool gormdragan, I thought I would let the 24/48 slip this weekend seeing as its the holiday season :)

Appreciate it. I was trying to finish up my GOTM. :thanx:

Preturn:

Ulundi is MM to produce more shield. Ulundi has 3 workers doing meaningless tile improvement. Ulundi can only grow to size 6 b4 it will riot so there is no need to improve more than 6. I am going to make Ulundi a 6 turn settler factory.

Key
MBG - mined bonus grassland[+2f,+2s]
IW - irrigated wheat[+3f,+1s]
IP - irrigated plains[+2f,+1s]
IF - irrigated floodplains[+3f]
F - forest[+1f,+3s]

At size 5, we can produce
(1) +2food,+6shield [MBG,IPx2,IF,F]
(2) +4food,+5shield [MBG,IW,IPx2,IF]
(3) +4food,+5shield [MBG,IW,IPx2,IF]
and grow to size 6.

At size 6, we can produce
(4) +4food,+5shield [MBG,IW,IP,IFx2,F]
(5) +4food,+5shield [MBG,IW,IP,IFx2,F]
(6) +4food,+5shield [MBG,IW,IP,IFx2,F]
and make a settler and shrink back to size 5.

In 6 turns, we will make +22food and +31shields.

Ulundi switches to rax, and start cycle the next turn. Please MM to maintain the cycle

We are not industrious so we should form worker teams.

Mpondo switches to rax first, Mpondo is in no risk of rioting so we should make rax first to produce vet troops.

Bapedi will riot when it grows in 10, I will transfer a war from Intombo to add an MP.

I know that a sucidal galley would be good but I would like Zimbabwe to grow first, switch galley to harbor.

Trade polytheism to Iroq for 41g+WM.

IBT:
Alex want TM+60g, I fold.

530:
Ulundi makes rax, starts settler.

Ngome founded, beside silk, starts temple we need culture, Ngome will be under alot of culture pressure.

No trade possible.

510:
Germans discovered literature, traded to Greeks. literature cost 200+WM, construction cost 570+WM, so no 2-fer possible with romans. Since we did not prebuild for GL, we should wait till we get a great leader or when there is a better trading opportunity to trade.

490:
Germans start GL.

470:
Zimbabwe makes harbor, MM to grow, starts galley.
Bapedi makes gran, starts settler.
Isandhlwana makes rax, starts worker.

Greeks discovered the republic while we still have 25 turns to go.

I suggest we bite the bullet, trade for construction and start a 40-turn gambit on engineering. Can trade 515g+WM for construction from Greeks. Trading with Romans or Germans would cost about 20g more. I would trade to Romans to maintain the balance, since Germans and Greeks are up.

Summary
(1) I have played only 9 turns so that we can decide whether to make the trade. Personally I would. Next player can play 11 turns.

(2) Remember to MM Ulundi to make a settler every 6 turns.

(3) I have a 5 worker team mining off Mpondo. Once finished, this team can start our road to Isandhlwana and Ngoma. I would also mine 2 more hills for Zimbabwe b4 making the road. If you noticed I have started a mining operation NW of Zimbabwe.

(4) Next settling spot should be the hill SE of the cattler (which in turn is east of Intombe). Remember to bring escort as there is a barbarian camp nearby. Also note that Greeks, Romans and Germans have advanced to Middle Ages and we should expect barbarian hordes to be roaming.

Next better player.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/hmm2_470bc.sav)

A good set of turns gorm.. thats me up :)

I can not play until tomorrow so feel free to voice opinions until then :)

PRE TURN
--------
Buy Literture from Greece for 200gld + WM
Buy Construction from Rome for Literature + WM + 440gld

Republic in 25

Turn 1
------
Move Scouts back to home land
Start removing more jungle

Turn 2
------
Nothing to report

Turn 3
------
Dispand Scout for 2 sheilds
Ulundi builds settler, next settler in 6
Mpondo completes barracks and starts warrior due in 4

Turn 4
------
Dispand Scout, Barracks in Holbine now in 1

Turn 5
------
Holbine Barracks -> Warrior

IBT
---
Greece declares war on aztecs
Greeces starts great library

Turn 6
------
Zimbabwe Galley -> Galley
Mpondo Warrior -> Warrior

Turn 7
------
Ulundi and Bapedi Riot... kick myself for not noticing.. sorry guys.
lux rate to 10%

Turn 8
------
Nothing to report

Turn 9
------
Mpondo Warrior->Warrior

Turn 10
-------
Uludi Settler->Warrior
Bapedi Settler->Warrior
Holbine Warrior->Warrior
Isandblahblah Warrior->Warrior

Swazi Founded starts worker

I figure the warrior to swordsman upgrade should be on so I have concerntrated on getting out some warriors.

Sorry about riots, far too tired to be playing at the moment..

Any ideas about who we go to war against first? I figure we will not have a lot of choice soon if we want to expand.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/hmm2_270bc.sav

Good turns. I'm not sure who we should go to war with...good question. I guess I'll offer my opinion after my turns.

Got it!

Sorry guys, but I lost my write up, so I'll give you some scanty details.

We settled a few new cities, and have settlers moving into position. I started building a lot of temples in various cities.

The big news is that a suicide galley worked, and we now have full contact and a complete WM. I did a lot of trading, and we now have Republic and Monotheism. We're ready to revolt and we're only behind in tech to Greece who has Theology. We should hold onto the contacts and WM for as long as possible.

Remember, we need to revolt before we continue so we can get into Republic.


The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/hmm2_90bc.sav)

ok immediately threw a 6 turn anarchy :(

Japan wants to swap world maps :lol:
We are in Russian territory, I apologize

IT
Iroquois declare on the Romans

70BC (1)
Move settlers

IT
Aztecs and greeks sign peace treaty
Greeks are building Sistine

50BC (2)
Trade around and get monarchy as well as increasing our pot to 371g, wm's and contacts not traded yet

IT
Iroquois are building the GL (isn't it a bit late?)

30BC (3)

Have to settle first new city in a hurry due to neighbouring Iroquois settler about to settle (think there may be a resource there), so found Umfolozi on the spot
No trades

IT
Our people want to build the FP, Maybe we should, but where?
Romans building HG and GL

10BC (4)
Nothing, anarchy is somewhat boring

IT
Too many Iroquois troops in our territory, hmmm

10AD (5)
Again, just galley moving and diplomacy checking

IT
Anarchy over, republic chosen
French finish Great LIghthouse

30AD (6)
Move settler into position
Greece still the only ones with theology
Lux to 20% for Ulundi

IT
We are in Babylonian waters, sorry Ham
Swazi - worker - worker
Iroquois are building HG and GLibrary

50AD (7)
New city founded, those Roman frontline cities look nice :)
No change diplo

IT
Heavy AI movement

70AD (8)
Nothing, no change diplo

IT
Ulundi - settler - settler
Mpondo - temple - horseman

90AD (9)
Buy a Roman worker for 30g
No change diplo

IT
AI wars

110AD (10)
Tugela - worker - worker
Greeks are building Sun Tzu !!!!!


OK not much to report since only 4 moves were not in anarchy
I don't really see an immediate opportunity for expansion via war, only that the Roman outskirt cities look nice, but everyone else thinks so too and are at war with them
Also militarily we are weak, is it a case of hooking up the iron and mass upgrading the warriors, if not, then please stop the 2 workers working on roading the iron

Greece are offering nothing for Theology and now Feudalism, they don't even want WM or contacts (yet)


The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/hmm2_430ad.sav)

I was aiming for a mass upgrade of warriors to swordsman, how many warriors do we have? Let Gorm have a look at the save and he can give us his war mongering opinion.

As to FP, I will need to have a look at our current cities, I guess south towards the Roman borders.

If everyone else is at war with the romans that gives us a excellent chance of some easy victories :)

1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser
3) zurichuk
4) flamingmoose (up next)
5) Bede (suspended until a post is made in this SG)
6) Gormdragan (on deck)

Remeber to keep wars polite as we have to win this SG via diplo.

I am late for work so I will have a look at the save tonight if you don't mind. In general, a mass swordsman war seems a little late now that fedalism is floating around, swords vs pikes are not good odds. Furthermore, swords vs legions may be disadvantagous as well. Go ahead and play the turns if you want to flamingmoose.

oops wrong SG

Here is my take, hope it is useful.

(1) Rome has only 1 un-roaded iron source (in the cyan circle). Once we take Cumae, Caesar is toast.

(2) We have 2 choices basically,
(a) eliminate romans totally,
(b) leave romans 5 cities.

(3) We have 430g (10 upgrades) and 21 wars. Against an iron-less Rome, I believe we can take on the romans easily.

(4) we Have slightly more culture than romans so leaving them alive is not a problem (i.e., cultural flips is probably not an issue).

(4) I have proposed a battle plan (following the yellow arrows), assuming we are keeping romans alive. The plan is to take key roman cities, hope for a GL and rush an FP in Veii.
In other words, I want to form our 2nd core with 6 roman cities - Veii as FP; Cumae, Rome, Antium, Neapolis and Viroconium as our first ring. After taking rome, split our forces into 2.
(a) (red arrows) 1 to take Lutetia, then retract to take Viroconium. (some force of 3-4swords should be sufficient)
(b) (yellow arrows) 1 to take Antium, then Neapolis, and Syracus.

(5) Once we take Syracus (and hopefully Viroconium), we sue for peace with the romans (leaving them with 6 cities). Then mobilise our swords (following the green arrows) and strike on the germans.

(6) I picked the germans next (without any pause between war with romans and germans) as they too have only 1 un-roaded source of iron, and it's very near the border with Syracus. If we can take out the iron source. Germans are ours for the taking.

(7) For the germans, I am not so kind, I suggest we eliminate the germans. If need be, (I prefer not) we can MA with greeks against the germans.

(8) Once we eliminate the germans, we come back and mop up the romans totally. This will give us the southern portion of our continent. If we have another GL, we can rush our palace on Hannover. With Hannover+Veii as our palace+FP, we can have good corruption free cities.

(9)My plan is very ambitious but I believe we can pull it off, as long as we take the iron sources. Not also that Iroq and Greeks also has only 1 source of iron so they will not be able to trade to germans or romans to help them.

Please comment. :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/The_Zulu_Road_Map.jpg

Sounds like a great plan to me :) The second core looks very promosing...

Sorry guys, I'm wayyyyyyyy to busy at the moment to play. Please go ahead without me; if I can join again later I'll let you know. Good luck!

okay flamingmoose..

Gorm your up :)
And I am on deck

Quickly looking at the plan: looks good. Too bad I don't have the time... Enjoy the war :)

I have no problem taking this game, but I am actually up on 2 other games and will not be able to play this until tomorrow. Let me know if this is ok, if not, go ahead and get the game going.

thats fine.

Preturn:
Zimbabwe does not need a temple, swap to market.
Mpondo swaps to market.
Bapedi swaps to settler.
Umfolozi cannot make a worker(size 1 only), swaps to war.

Hired a scientist, drop our research investment.

130:
Umfolozi makes war, starts war.
Bapedi makes settler, starts settler.
rushed rax in Tugela.

Germans up on Theology (we can force them to give to us when we attack them).

150:
Intombe makes war starts market.

Upgrade 5 swords. Caesar!!!! Goodbye!!

170:
Ulundi makes settler, starts market.

190:
Upgrade 3 swords.

210:
Umtata makes war, starts war.

Trade to Greeks contact with Babylon+Russians+Chinese+American for Feudalism+50g.
Trade to Germans Feudalism+wM for Theology+5.
Trade to Babylon Contact with Germans for WM+35.
Trade to Russians contact with Germans for WM+2gpt+49g.
Trade to Chinese contact with Aztec for WM+18g.
Trade to Americans contact with Aztec for WM+22g.
Trade to Japanese contact with Germans for WM+35g.
Start a 40-turn gambit on Printing Press.

Declared war on Romans.
Killed 3 archers, no losses.

230:
Swazi makes worker, starts war.
Umfolozi makes war, starts war.

Greek makes GL.
Babylon makes HG.

Siege of Cumae
Kills 2spears

IBT:
Greeks want TM+34g, I fold.

250:
Ibabanago makes war, starts war.

Siege of Camae
Kills 2 archers, Cumae is ours, 2resistors. +3slaves. Starts impi, we should start our GA.

We have spices :D

IBT:
we lost 1 swords.

260:
Cumae's resistance has ended.
Bapedi makes settler, starts market.

Kills 3 archers.

270:
Nagome makes temple, starts war.

Kills 2 archers.

280:
Isandhlwana makes temple, starts market.
Swazi makes war, starts temple.

Siege of Veii
Kills 2 spears, Veii is ours. Gems are online!!! :D 2resistors, starts impi. +2slaves.

Isipezi founded, starts war.

Tech/Lux down to zero, hired a scientist.

Summary
(1) Rome is next. It seems so far that the romans are a walkover.

(2) 40-turn gambit on Printing press.

Next better player.



The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/hmm2_280ad.sav)

Good set of turns Gorm :)

Thats me up, I will play tonight.

Btw, i am building a couple of impi, hoping to trigger our GA with an attack on a redline unit. We are in Republic and are also at a turning point of history. Either we take germans and romans and become the dominant power of our continent, or as Patrick Henry said "Liberty or Death!!" The GA will help us tremedously in our push.

Got it, now playing

Preturn 280AD
-------------
Looks good.. on with the war :)

Turn 1 (290AD)
-----------------
Holbane Temple -> Sword
Umfolozi Warrior -> Worker

Theres a settler near Isandhlwala, and I am not sure were he is intended to go. I plonk him down were he is.


Turn 2 (300AD)
--------------
Ibabango Warrior -> Barracks
The romans are building Sun Tzu's :lol:

Turn 3 (310AD)
--------------
nothing to report

Turn 4 (320AD)
--------------
Two cities Warrior -> Barracks

Turn 5 (330AD)
--------------
Mpondo Marketplace -> Sword

Zunguin founded
Hurry Barracks in Veli for quick health and upgrades

Turn 6 (340AD)
--------------
Veli Barracks -> Impi
Amatikulu Warrior -> Temple

Rome is taking ages to fall

Turn 7 (350AD)
--------------
Ulundi Marketplace -> Sword
Cumae Impi -> Temple
Our Iron has been exhausted.. will look to get some more hooked up

Turn 8 (360AD)
--------------
Hlobane Sword -> Warrior
Mpondo Sword -> Warrior

Hurry Temple at Cumae to get iron inside borders

IBT
---
Our civ enters its golden age, just as we don;t have iron cause one of our impis got attacked

Turn 9 (370AD)
--------------
Zimbabwe Marketplace -> warrior
Cumae Temple -> Warrior
Mpondo warrior -> warrior
Tugela sword -> warrior
ibabanago barracks -> warrior


IBT
---
Veii finally falls to the romans after a valient attempt to keep it. A mass raid of archers took it as we attempt to get more troops to the front.

Turn 10 (380AD)
---------------
Mpondo Warrior -> Warrior
Isipezi Warrior -> Temple

Due to loss of Gems I have to raise lux 20% to 30%

A disappointing set of turns all and all, with the loss of veii and not enough swords on the front line.

I guess I should of left Rome alone until I had more swords, sorry guys :(


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/hmm2_380ad.sav

Looks like we underestimated an iron-less Rome. Plus we were really unlucky to lose our iron source. Luckily we have 2.

Ouch, losing th iron does hurt, but it's certainly overcomeable.
I've got it, and I'll play when I get the chance to.

bad luck hmmmm, it happens to us all, where's the fun in SG's if we win them all easily, i'm enjoying the struggle

I have started roading up the new iron and you can either build a thingy there or wait for cumae's borders to expand.

I had 4 swords and a warrior in Veii when it fell. although the swords all had 1 - 3 health I was very suprised at how easily it fell.

The other problem is I think greece has made peace with rome so their effort it no concerntrated on us. That is only a guess because the greek army started marching back accross our terriotory in the opposite direction.

There are loads of settler pairs roaming around as well making the IBT very long.

Here are my turns, fearless team.


Preturn- We¡¦re in quite a situation. I¡¦ll gibe the war another turn or two to decide if we go for peace or not.

IT- Zimb-warrior„³horse
Ulundi-sword-horse
Hlobane-warrior-market
Mpondo-warrior-horse
Ngome-rax-market
Tugela-warrior-market
Ibabango-warrior-horse
Greeks are building Copernicus¡¦s

Turn 1

Move several warriors to Tugela for upgrade once iron is back online
Nothin else major.
I think the war can be continued w=once our horses are back
I trade spice to Greece for WM, 10g and 8gpt

IT- zzz

Turn 2

I move more units towards the front. Iron should be online next turn.
I trade Hiawatha Theology for gems
I lower the lux slide to 20%

IT- Iroquois take Brundisium
Roman archer kills sword protecting iron
Ulundi-horse-library
Intombe-market-sword
Mpondo-horse-horse
Iroquois are building Sistine¡¦s

Turn 3

I upgrade 12 warriors to swords
Vet swords kills reg Roman archer on hill
Nothing else major. I start to gather troops near front

IT- Romans ask for peace. Not quite yet my friend.
Our sword fends off two Roman archer on the iron hill and promotes to elite
Zimb-horse-horse
Cumae-warrior-rax
Swazi-temple-rax
First level of WW hits. I increase lux accordingly.
Turn 4

I move more untis to the fron, upgrade some warriors. New Zimb is going to fall most likely, but I¡¦m sending some horse down there to mop up some archers.

IT- New Zimb is torched by Romans
Bapedi-market-temple
Mpondo-horse-library

Turn 5

More units sent to front. Nothing major.

IT- Two mounted warriors attack Pisae. One wins, the other retreats.
Intombe- sword-horse
Umtata-rax-temple
Ibabanago- horse-temple

Turn 6

More troops to the front, but I think Pisae will be gone before we can get there.

IT- China bullies us. I tell him to stuff it. He stuffs it.
Damn mounted warrior captures Pisae
Zimb-horse-horse
Swazi-rax-horse

Turn 7

Redirect troops to new target of Viroconium

IT- a Roman archer defeats one of our horses
Ulundi-library-horse
Amatikulu-temple-market

Turn 8

A reg sword kills a reg archer, promotes
A vet sword kills a vet archer
A vet horse kills a vet archer, promotes
A vet horse kills a vet archer

IT- France declares war on the Greeks
Intombe-Horse-horse

Turn 9
Elite sword kills red archer, no leader
Vet horse kills vet spear
Vet horse kills reg archer, promotes
Move troops on on Virconium

IT- Zimb-horse-horse
Ulundi-horse-horse
Mpondo-library-horse

Turn 10

Elite sword kills vet archer, no leader
Vet sword dies fighting elite spear
Vet sword finishes the job
Vet sword kills reg archer


Afterthoughts

The war is once again in our favor. We have the numbers to press on, and I suggest we do. As our number of elite increases, a leader will hopefully appear....we need it.



The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/HMM2-480AD.SAV)

ok got it and just played it

Pre-checks

Buy Education off the Greeks for WM, 15 Gpt and 740 GOld
Immediately sell it to the Iroquois for Chivalry, WM and 2 Gold

Umtata and Isipezi have WW, MM 2 entertainers

IT
Romans pick off a couple of our redlined elite troops
Aztecs and Greece sign a military alliance against France, suddenly the green troops start to retreat
Cumae - Barracks - Swordsman
Bapedi - Temple - Barracks

Russians are building Sun Tzu

490AD (1)
Kill archer outside Viroconium but i cannot take this before the Iroquois, move warrior, lol, onto mountain outside in case there's an opportunity
Upgrade horseman on way to battlezone
Move troops towards Veii

IT
Russia wants to swap TM's, I never do this interturn
Iroquois archer takes out elite spearman in Viroconium, maybe i have a chance
Palace expansion

500AD (2)
Upgrade 2nd horseman

3 swordsman attack spearman / archer duo outside Veii, lose one
Elite horse attacks Viroconium -retreats
Vet horse attacks same, defeats -takes city, move warrior into city for extra defence
Defeat 3 archers outside Veii

Greece are up Astronomy and Music Theory :(

IT
Iroquois forces usefully defeat spearman outside our newly acclaimed Viroconium
Bapedi - Barracks - Knight
Hlobane - Marketplace - Knight
Resistance already over in Viroconium

510AD (3)
Swordman attacks Spearman in Veii, promotes
More troop movement

IT
Ulundi - knight - knight
Isand - marketplace - worker
Greeks are building Magellans
Germans finish Sistine

520AD (4)
Knight kills archer
Elite horse kills spearman in Veii, takes city
MOve troops towards Rome

IT
The Iroquois are stoutly defending Viroconium for me, having some good luck here
Mpondo - Knight - Knight
Ngome - Marketplace - Knight
Umfolozi - worker - warrior (?)
Greeks are building Sun Tzu and JS Bach

530AD (5)
Kill 4 archers outside Veii, lose 1 swordsman
Move troops

Can trade techs but Romans will offer one for peace, will wait

IT
Babylons want 33 gold, well at the moment they can have it
Isand - worker - pikeman
Intombe - knight - knight
Ibab - temple - library

Babs are building Bach, Americans SunTsu
No attacks from Rome

540AD (6)
Change Viroconium to barracks
Knight kills Roman horse

IT
No attacks
Zimbabwe - knight- knight
SWazi - knight - library
Tugela - Marketplace - Pikeman
Iroquois are building Bach, French Sun Tzu

550AD (7)
Rush barracks in Viro
Move 8 troops next to Rome, ignore surrounding Roman troops, all settler pairs

IT
Knight defends against Roman archer
Ulundi - knight - pikeman
Cumae - swordsman - catapult
Viro - barracks - warrior
Germans start Bach
Japanese start Tzu

560AD (8)
Stupid decision to rush barracks, it's not connected by road :(
I don't trust these Greeks
Move troops

IT
Golden Age ends
Bapedi - knight - Pikeman
Viro riots - oops
Mpondo - knight - knight

570AD (9)
don't attack, decide to bring the elites in and go leader fishing, hope that doesn't come back in my face

IT
Roman troops appear

580AD (10)
Rome falls to 4 swordsman, no leaders


I was quite lucky, there were a surprising number of Roman troops around, the Iroquois picked off the stragglers for me :)

Plenty of troops to continue if the next player wants to, just need some healing, the Roman capital moved next door so I would suggest taking out Antium, Lutetia and Neapolis to help prevent a flip later in the game, but that is for discussion. Some of the other cities are producing troops but i think they can be changed to infrastructure, we are now falling behind in tech

The Romans are only offering Music Theory for peace.

Greece are up Music Theory, Banking and Astronomy, however the 40 turn gambit on Printing Press is only 5 turns away if it works.
Germans, Babylon, Chinese are up Music Theory and Astronomy
Iroquois are up Music Theory

WW is beginning to show a bit

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/HMM2-580AD.SAV)

Good Going Guys :)

1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser
3) zurichuk
4) flamingmoose (up next)
5) Bede (suspended until a post is made in this SG)
6) Gormdragan (on deck)

Okay Flamingmoose is skipped.

Gorm your up and I am on deck. Although I will not be able to play until the end of the week.

I leave it up to you Gorm, play when you want, then if flamingmoose turns up let him have a go, otherwise just skip me.

I am up on 2 other SGs, so I will let this one slip a little (hopefully, flamingmoose comes back). I wil pick this one on Wednesday.

Double post. :P

Playing now, will post by tomorrow night.

Preturn:

Everything looks good, good job everyone.

I switch some production the Impi to induce GA.

Caesar will tremble under our feet.

590:
Tugela makes impi starts courthouse.
Hlobane makes knight, starts courthouse.

Babylons discovered Printing Press, our gambit failed.

600:
Bapedi makes impi, starts court.

Siege of Lutetia, killed 2 spears.

610:
Rome and Greece signed MA against France (wow lucky us)

Greece wants MA with us against France, I said no.

Siege of Neapolis, killed 5 spears, lost 2 swords. +4 workers, +1 catapult.

Impi kill archer, hmm, we already had our GA. :D

Siege of Antium, killed 4 spears, lost 1 knight.

Hired a scientist, up lux.

France+Greece sued for peace.

620:
Isandhlwana makes catapult, starts catapult.
Umfolozi makes warrior, starts warrior.

630:
Printing Press discovered, starts banking.

Ulundi makes knight, starts settler.
Mpondo makes knight, starts knight.

Siege of Syracuse, killed 2 spears, 1 archer, lose 1 swords.

Siege of Hispalis, killed 2 spears, 1 archer.

640:
Intombe makes knight, starts knight.
Ngome makes knight, starts knight.

Tsingtao makes Sun Tzu.

Siege of Ravenna, killed 2 spears, lost 1 swords.

650:
Delphi makes Bach.
Ur makes Cop Ob.

Siege of Pompeii, killed 2 spears.

660:
Ulundi makes settler, starts knight.
Cumae makes cat, starts cat.

670:
Zimbabwe makes knight, starts knight.

Siege of Lugdunum, killed 2 spears.

680:
Siege of Palmya, killed 2 spears,+3 slaves.

690:
Bapedi makes court, starts knight.
Isandhlwana makes cat, starts cat.
Mpondo makes knight, starts knight.
Zunguin makes cat, starts cat.

700:
Hlobane makes court, starts knight.

Siege of Byzantium, killed 3 spears, lost 1 swords.

Sue for peace with Caesar, gets Engineering, Astronomy and Muscial Theory. :D

From backward, we leap frog back to being technologically advanced.

Summary
(1) We have a 6 knight stack ready to strike Munich.

(2) We have another 5knight+1elite horse+2 cat stack ready to strike on Cologne.

(3) I would start the campaign on the Germans. Do remember that to take out the Germans' Iron.

(4) We still have about 7-8 knights south, along with 6-7 swords.

Next better player.


The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/HMM2-700AD.SAV)

1) Hmmm (up next)
2) Kaiser (on deck)
3) zurichuk
4) flamingmoose
5) Bede (suspended until a post is made in this SG)
6) Gormdragan (just played)

I will be on vacation from Christmas until next year. :blush:

Okay I shall play tonight, but after that I am away for three weeks on my christmas hols :)

I guess then that is up to Kaiser, Zurichuk and flamingmoose. If you are all busy over the festive period we could always suspend this S.G and resume it in the new year.

Let me know what you all think. I will be away until around the 9th of January, so its up to you guys what you want to do.

Sorry, didn't get chance to play last night. I will be back on the 9th on January.

Its up to you guys what you want to do.

When I return we can restart the 24/48 to get this game going.


Merry Christmas everyone and all the best for the new year :)

bumpity bump before it goes too far from our memories

okay lets get this game going again.. I have just got back from my long hols :)

I am going to ask to be skipped due to work and home commitments this week. So the new order is:

1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser (up next)
3) zurichuk (on deck)
4) flamingmoose
5) Bede (suspended until a post is made in this SG)
6) Gormdragan

Lets get this back to got in 24 and then played in 48.

Happy New Year Everyone... hmm

i'm back.

Happy New Year Gorm :)

Okay lets skip Kaiser

1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser
3) zurichuk (up next)
4) flamingmoose (on deck)
5) Bede (suspended until a post is made in this SG)
6) Gormdragan

Lets get this back to got in 24 and then played in 48.

Hey guys, I'm back now!

Sorry for the long delay. I didn't have internet access over my break, so I've been totally out of the loop. Quite good timing, I guess, seeing as I'm up...or was up. I can take it, if thats alright with everyone. I'll wait and see what you guys say.

Kaiser you can take it, only just realised you'd been skipped for me (sorry Hmmmm ), didn't seem to get an email notification of a new post for the skip post

Alright, I'll play as soon as possible.

I played my first 4 turns, and due to events in the game, I'm posting now to ask you guys how you think we should proceed.

Preturn- Things look alright here, I’ll start the German invasion next turn ala Gorm’s suggestion.

IT- Veii-Catapult-temple
Umfolozi-warrior-temple

Turn 1

I call up Bismark, and demand Navigation. He doesn’t comply, so may the German homelands be covered in his blood. The war is on!

I move our two stacks into position. Will attack next turn. Nothing else significant.

IT-
Nothing major

Turn 2

I decide to splurge about half of our gold on embassies.

Stack 1 near Cologne attacks.

Our catapult destroys the temple of Cologne
Vet. Knight dies against reg. knight
Vet. Knight retreats against reg spear
Vet knight kills reg spear
Vet. Knight kills reg knight
Elite horse kills spear, no leader, captures Colonge.

I leave the rest of the stack there for now pending the other attack.

Stack 2 near Munich attacks.

Vet. Knight retreats against reg pike
Vet knight killed by reg pike
Vet knight killed by reg pike
Vet knight retreats.

I decided to pull back what we have left and regroup with the others.

IT-
Two redlined knights slaughtered by the Germans
Ulundi-knight-knight
Cumae-cat-courthouse

Turn 3
I move troops towards Hannover
Vet knight kills a German knight
Vet knight dies fighting German knight
Elite knight kills German archer in east
Elite knight kills warrior
Nothing much else

IT-
Two german archers dies at the feet of our elite knight
One redlined knight killed by german knight

Turn 4-

Elite horse kills knight.
Elite knight kills german archer
Elite knight kills german archer
Elite knight kills german archer and bingo!!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Hmm-leader.JPG


I'm thinking of a FP in Cumae, or something to that effect. I'll let you all chime in before I finish my turns.

sorry pple, I lost all my subscribed threads.

Well, I waited for a couple days with no response, so I’m going to just continue forth.

IT- Nothing

Turn 5

Several knights are lost attacking German knights. I’m thinking of getting peace ASAP to cut our losses because our troops few and far between.

Elite knights kill two horses in the East

IT-
We lose a knight and a catapult to German counterattacks
Bapedi-knight-knight
Intombe-knight-aqueduct
Ngome-knight-knight
Swazi-worker-aqueduct
Tugela-courthouse-knight
Amatikulu-library-aqueduct

Turn 6

We kill two German knights and recapture our catapult
Not much else. Germany still won’t talk.

IT- Hlobane-knight-knight
War weariness begins to hit a bit

Turn 7

Our troops seem a bit more bolstered now, and we’re back to strong against the Germans….the war may be able to continue. The next few turns will tell.

IT- The French destroyed the Romans
Ibabanago-marketplace-knight

Turn 8

I use our GL Mpande to rush the FP in Cumae
Two elite knights capture Brandenburg in the east
Elite sword kills knight
I move troops towards Hannover

IT- Ulundi-knight-knight
Cumae-FP-marketplace

Turn 9

Our income has increased by over 50% from the FP
One knight is lost, but several others, assisted by our cats, capture Hannover
Not much else

IT- The Iroquois stab us in the back, taking Viroconium

Turn 10

A knight kills a mounted warrior.
Not much else

Afterthoughts

Well, just as the German war became manageable, we have another to contend with. We can get the Greeks in on our side against the Iroquois fairly cheaply if we need the help. I’d seriously consider that, so we can push the Germans a bit further so we can get as much as possible from them for peace.

Have fun!



The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/HMM2-800AD.SAV)

1) Hmmm
2) Kaiser (Just played)
3) zurichuk (up next)
4) flamingmoose (on deck)
5) Bede (suspended until a post is made in this SG)
6) Gormdragan

Is this game dead?

I was wondering that myself. Is there anyone out there?

hi guys, i lost my interent connection for 6 weeks, my home computer was tied up with a secure link to work which prevented internet access so unfortunately due to circumstances beyond my control i let a few people down, sorry

however i am back now with a 2nd pc online

shall i take this now or has it died?

I'd say go for it....maybe if we get this going again its interest will pick back up.

I will be away on a business trip in Nigeria for 4weeks. Once In Singapore, I will have internet access and will continue playing.

All the best everyone, sorry....RL takes over.

yep real life can be a ****

this is a got it then anyway

ok 800AD, take a look around,

we are strong against all except the Greeks and the Iroquois

take Navigation from China for WM, 586 gold and 12gpt
take Invention from the Russians for Navigation, spices and horses
basicaly give Japan Astronomy for furs and a little cash
cash rush a few knights

IT
Iroquois burn Izipedi to the ground
2 civil disorders in lowly cities

810AD

move knights towards Brundisium
expensive trade available, gunpowder from the Greeks and then banking from another AI, but i'll wait
almost certain to lose another city before peace
rush 2 more knights, switch Swazi from aqueduct to knight (still only size 5)
switch Amatikulu from aqueduct to barracks (size 4)
the grassland near Isandhlwana,Ngoma, Cologne and Mpondo needs irrigating now not mining, the shields are available from the many hills
there are an abnormal amount of Iroquois troops around so i feel i have little choice but to take peace from the Germans, they even pay 26 and 12gpt for it
turn lux down to 10% from 40% (ww?)

IT
2 knights and a swordsman lost interturn, no more losses

820AD
4 elite knights take Brondisium for no losses, gain 6 workers
move some troops, discover that we are not in such a bad position and could take out the remaining Iroquois cities in out territory

840AD
Knights take Pisae

860AD
The remaining Iroquois cities fall, they now take peace and donate 20 gold to the cause

870AD
We love the Days dur to ww gone
Eventually do some trading, gaining Banking, Gunpowder and Economics
The Greeks are still at least Democracy and Chemistry ahead, we can afford either but i'll wait

880AD
Loads of Greek troops enter our territory, surely they're not stupid enough to attack and lose 120gpt

890AD
Doh, the Greeks declare war. we are in serious trouble now

900AD
The Greeks burn Isandhlwana to the ground

OK, the greeks are the leaders in just about all areas and we are their next victim, we have a fair amount of troops but they are miles away, i think we have only a small chance to win the game in
the way that Hmmm wanted, it may be even a struggle to win it normally, we had an awful start and are now beginning to recover, however if the troops reach the battlezone before too much damage is done and the other AI leave us alone, then we may have a chance

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/HMM2-900AD.SAV)