Non-Oscillating War goes Demi-God

The variant goes as follows:

The first Civ we meet, we declare war on them and stay at war until they are wiped from the face of the earth. We must declare war on them by the end of the turn in which we meet them. (This does allow for trades but no gpt or lux payments).

We then take the Civ we contacted second and declare war on them and stay at war until they are defeated. Each Civ will be destroyed in the order that we meet them. New Rule If more than one Civ buys contact with us in the interturn and we don't know which one bought contact first, then when it comes time to declare war on ones of those Civs, the player may chose which one to declare on.

Before it becomes their "turn" we may freely trade with any other Civ. Please avoid any RoP, gpt, and other deals with the next victim if it gets close to their turn. The one exception would be a deal for an alliance against the current victim.

Standard rules apply, no exploits. However, dastardly is allowed as long as you respect our reputation for the most part. It is OK to declare war dishonorably, but not take peace and then attack before 20 (unless they do the declaring).

I try not to be as hard about play time, sometimes things get in the way. I won't make hard and fast deadlines, but would ask you to either play or post a skip as soon as you are able. This keeps the game moving and keeps everyone interested and happy.

Also, each turn (except the first player) will be around ten turns +/- a few. If you don't have to complete them all then its OK to stop early and pass it on. Sometimes the game just has some natural break points beyond which you might commit the next player to a massive undertaking and you want to leave the choice up to them as they will shoulder the burden. Sometimes a war is just about over and you don't want to leave a the next player with a couple of boring "clean-up" turns or you have worked to get something done that you feel is important and you don't want it lost. Take a couple extra to do so. Try not to "hog" all the fun, but don't short change yourself either.

The parameters, standard size, continents, 70%, normal, temperate, 4 billion. Random opponents, random barbs, standard victory conditions, no culture link, no respawn. These are not set in stone, let me know if anyone wants changes.

The current roster stands as:
Meldor
Northern Pike
Belisar
Arizona_Steve
ChrTh
Coffee

ChrTh has indicated an inability play right out of the gate. We will save a spot. I expect that the gaming will slow way down during the holidays as usual so the seat will be warm.

These are the current players in MLDR003 and most have expressed interest in joining the next one. We are stepping back on here to assess the changes due to conquest. I would like to do this one and then for the next game go back to Diety or Sid. We can then up the number of opponents that we have to be at war with. I am trying to work up to AWD Diety or SID. They say it can't be done. We will see. If anyone listed here doesn't want to play or needs to drop prior to the start post your intention. We will only add another if the roster drops to 4.

We only have one choice expressed for our Civ so far.

Austria
A 'hidden' civ, industrious and militaristic, UU is the Husar, a 7/3/3 cav

Industrious giving us Masonry to start with faster workers, more shields in large cities and city walls. Not bad for a game in which we are going to have to do a lot by ourselves.

Militaristic, cheaper military buildings, more promotions/leaders start with warrior code which give archers (early offense). They have the Husar (7.3.3) as their UU which replaces the Cav (6.3.3). This would enable a well timed Late Age GA.

Belisar will generate the map and play it long enough to ensure its suitability. That earns the last spot in the roster, just as I got last game. The rest will be based purely on random draw (except maybe AS as he gets a little ancie at the start and can't wait to play :D).

We were pressed at times in the early going of the last game. Our UU arrived just in time to put us over the edge and this one (although not as good on attack) would be in the same time frame. Conquest does give us a few new advantages to use. The bombardment for archers and bow will be a big plus. Instead of building as many cats for early defense we should be able to use archers for defensive bombardment and to kill off strays (a 2fer1 combo with punch). The new tech tree will take some getting used to and I don't lnow if it will break in our favor or not. With the addition of new wonders, the AI seems to go wonder crazy for a while but it also means big cascade sequencies so we will most likely be at a push as we won't have much prebuilding to do. I think the only think we did a prebuild for in the last game was for Hoover's.

Thoughts, any other Civs for consideration?

Industrious giving us Masonry to start with faster workers
Don't forget they aren't as fast as before.

Another couple of things.

(1) When making deals, don't send any gold-per-turn to another civ. Otherwise they end up with twice as much gold as we send them. On the other hand, let's sell our techs and luxuries for gold-per-turn :D

(2) Don't build the forbidden palace until the game is patched. It actually INCREASES corruption.

Deep down inside, I'm hoping the first patch will be out before I get the game :D

I'm here and following :band:

I hear all these weird things about C3C, makes me wonder if we should stick to PTW until a patch comes out?

The first city will need to start a prebuild for the Great Library, assuming we are going with the same strategy. Which I suppose we have to do because of the gpt bug. Our best trades might be luxs and lump sum gold for tech . That means we need masonry as our first or almost first tech so we can have the palace as a prebuild.

The game demands more gold from the player than it does from itself. So I agree we should stay away from gpt deals whenever possible.

Luxuries and resources seem to be a lot sparser in C3C. I think pillaging with armies should see more use this game. I'm interested in combining arms also. Perhaps 2 sword, 2 archer, 2 cat. A single horse should be included with this stack.

It might be a good policy to have one city producing improvements at all times. Say after the five city mark.

I've tested abandoning the FP in two SP games. There was not a noticable difference in corruption. The exception is that a corrupt free FP was missing. It maybe more about distance. Building the FP at a distance of 8 didn't hurt IIRC. So building the FP still gets one uncorrupt city.

A good FP site would break the tie for cities located the same distance from the palace. That may make the FP worth building.

@Teknoice. I was getting tired of PTW so I'm not disappointed buying C3C. Van, huh. My old home town. ;)

yeah I suppose that's why I got it ;)

van-city is anawesome town. To bad I'm leaving to join the army in the next couple months.

Huh, this was quick, the 3rd NOW game, same team and an unbroken enthusiasm, great. :D
Does anyone have a different suggestion for our civ?
If not, I will go with Meldor's settings and post a start-file in the next 48 hours. Agressiv-level should probably be standard (?)

Lets use Snoopy's C3C standard terrain. Its available from the CivFan home page.

EDIT: @meldor. I think my enthusiasm got ahead of better judgement. I'm feeling somewhat burned down. So I think I'll pass on playing this one. I'll complete LotR11 and the short, 150t, Rise of Rome conquest, take the hoildays off and check back in January. Please keep my name on the list for the next one though. I wouldn't want to miss an AW game. I know I'll enjoy the reading. Good luck, like you'll need it. ;)

No problem Coffee, if you change your mind let us know. That still leaves us with 4 active and 5 after Santa pays ChrTh a visit. Do we want to add someone else ro go with what we have?

We have a good team of experienced players but with ChrTh not beeing able to play we could add a fifth.
Only suggestion: Military deity wins are a 'must' for this difficult variant.

I wouldn't mind playing in a four-man rotation until :santa:, but I also wouldn't object to the addition of a new player if you're confident of the quality of his play, meldor.

Meldor, I've already mentioned this in the MLDR03 thread but I'll repeat it here for convenience: please put me as far back in the rotation as possible (though I realize that this may just mean third place, in the present circumstances), so that I'll have time to work in some solo play of Conquests.

No problem NP, I think we are all trying to absorb the changes. I actually think even on Diety that thew Great Library is doable without a leader.

Can't we just browbeat Coffee until he gives in and rejoins the team?!?

:suicide: :whipped:

:D

Nope, but thanks for asking ChrTh. I really need to slow down for a while. Got lots of small RL issues on the go. Hows that saying go again: same old same old.

I just wanted to give a small update:
Austria is playable (coool! :D) and should be a really powerful NOW-civ, but a few details have to be considered if we want to use them.
All of us need enough HD space to make a copy of the conquest directory. After that, we replace two files in this 'Austrian' version and use it for this game only (one civ is replaced, all leaderheads, units... included), seem to work fine for me.
Actually I thought in the days of 160GB HDs, this should be no problem, but if anyone from the team can't do it, we will have to use one of the standard civs.

Is it possible for you to create a scenerio so that all the files go with it? I have no problem with the HD space so if we can't do it as a scenerio and no one objects to the process we will go with it. Post the details of the needed changes so that we can try it out ahead of time.

I think if you create the scenario, and then save it at 4000BC, you don't need any more files; at least, I never have (the .sav incorporates all the changes for the .bic) ... obviously, if you have custom graphic files those would have to be moved, but the Austrian graphic files are native to Conquests.

The problem is: Austria replaces one of the existing civs, (leaderheads....)
Thus everyone needs these two files (will post them) and replace the original one in the Conquest directory. One could use one version and replace these two files with the original one whenever playing other games but this would be very annoying, so my solution with the copy seems to be the most easy one for those with enough HD space.

Alternatively, I could create a scenario but then it would be hard to prevent almost complete spoiler knowledge which I don't know how to avoid.

@Belisar

Here's the trick: Change the rules first (make Austria one of the playable Civs instead of, say, the Koreans). Then generate the map, and then save the scenario without really looking at the map. Everything is still random on the map unless you put it there. When you start the scenario, you'll see a mini-map, but it won't have details such as resources, etc. Start the game as the Austrians, and then save it right at 4000 BC. Then make yourself last in the rotation. That way you'll have plenty of time to forget any details you may have seen. I did this with CTR7, and had no problems (in fact, I actually lingered over the Carthaginian starting location to make sure it was on a separate continent from ours, and I still missed an important detail in the game :rolleyes: )

Doing it the way you're talking about it will not actually give you the true Austrian setup, if I understand it correctly, just swapping some info. The Firaxatarians put the Austrians in the editor, so I would recommend doing it that way, rather than manually.

I have 31 GB free. I trust this is far more than adequate?

Any technical solution on which the rest of you agree is fine with me, but I'll probably want detailed instructions. :)

Ok, I will try a scenario solution without looking at the random-generated map, then check out the first turns to test the playability.
I have added a few cities too, some of the orifinal in the editor are quite nonsense.
Expect the save tomorrow.

Arizona_Steve, The Eager (Up, 20 turns)
Meldor (On deck)
Northern Pike
Belisar
ChrTh (Waiting on Santa)

hopefully Coffee can take a small break and join back up. That would be great meldor. January is looking good. But if thats too late reading along isn't so bad. [delurk].

Edit: I can check the map if necessary.

Ok, here we go:

Ladies and Gentlemen, Misses and Missisipies, I'm proud to present
our new project, C&C NOW-Demigod with the hidden civ AUSTRIA :D

First the technical stuff:
The one thing everyone has to do for sure is replacing the file PediaIcons.txt
in the /Conquest/Text/ directory
I would suggest renaming the old file and copy/paste my new one
This file should not influence other games, there are just a few new lines added for the Austrian civ, it specifies the files that civilopedia icons are to be read from.

PediaIcons.txt (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/PediaIcons.txt)

Now the game:
Here is a test-save on a small pangea. Everyone who has the time can use
it as a last quick-test, at best someone plays until MT and crashes some AIs with the Hussar. For me, it works fine but who knows...

TEST-SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/aus_02.zip)

And finally, our official start file:
I took the 2nd that was generated, the first one was a horrible jungle-mess, tested it and it looks playable.

The settings are:
DEMIGOD
70% water, continents, normal AI agression-level
7 random opponents
ALL victory conditions except this new "wonder victory"

After we discover IW, my spoiler-knowledge should end and I can join.
If we are patient, we could give Coffee one or two days to test this map extesively, up to the team.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/austria-1.gif


MLDR04-4000BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR04-4000BC.zip)


I added new cities, the colour looks nice and the towns will sound sooo familiar... :lol:
Now I'm away for about 24 hours, will check in Sunday afternoon.
(after all I have to finish my turns in RBC3c)

Hrm, looks like a good start, although the position on the minimap could be good or bad ... this will be a good building city, although I recommend moving the worker NE first to see if that's a better starting position than the current one.

"Farming, road-building, and irrigation" ... umm, do we not start off with Mining? And what about the techs that come with Mil and Ind? I need to go review the new tech tree, I think ...

Woot! I get to start!!

Got it (I'm assuming 20 turns to start)...

Edit: Just saw the 20 turns in the player list above... As Homer Simpson would say... DOH!

(0) 4000BC
The in-game music has been left on, so I begin by turning it off. Check the other preferences and generally leave "as is", except for the Wonder initiation pop-up, which is switched on.

Now on to the game.

It was suggested that the worker move NE. I'm going to move N onto the plains, as it will reveal just as much information. Also the plains tile will be irrigated quicker than the grassland would be mined, saving a turn to get the same amount of benefit.
We reveal nothing but additional plains tiles and the river curving to the NW. So I found Vienna on the starting position.

I start a warrior as our first build. His job will be to scout out the lands around our capital. I want to delay contact with other civs (and hence the declaration of war) until we have a barracks and some military.

Start Bronze working @ 100%, due in 20 turns.

(5) 3750BC
Our first warrior is trained and is sent to explore the South. Since we're located at the South of th minimap, this is the direction to explore in order to avoid early contacts.

(6) 3700BC
Plains tile irrigated and roaded. Switch our citizen over to it (from the bonus grassland) for the extra commerce.

(7) 3650BC
Our warrior spies a goody hut. Better left unpopped at this point, I may pop it by founding a city next to it.

(10) 3500BC
Our fearless warrior reaches the South coast, a second warrior is trained, our borders expand, and Vienna grows to size 2.
The second warrior is sent out East along the river to scout out more city sites.
Luxuries to 20% to Stop vienna from rioting.
There's a forest game square within our borders now, so our second citizen works that square, until the mine completes on the bonus grassland.

(11) 3450BC
Mine completes on the bonus grassland next to a river, citizen reassigned for an extra gold per turn. I can turn luxuries down to 10%.

(13) 3350BC
Third warrior trained. I'm going to keep this guy at home. Luxury tax reduced to zero. Settler started.
Move the citizen on the irrigated plains to the forest game for two turns, so that the settler will be produced when Vienna grows to size three, with no loss of shields.

(15) 3250BC
Citizen moved back to irrigated plains from forest game.

(19) 3050BC
Bronze Working is due next turn, so I dial science down to 70%, netting us two gold.

(20) 3000BC
Bronze working comes in. I set research to The Wheel (let's get a jump on where the horses are), but this can be vetoed by the next player without any loss.
Our first settler is created. I an going to leave him unmoved, so the next player can decide where to put him.
The worker has completed his roading project, and is also left unmoved. His next project will probably be dependent on where the next city goes.
Vienna has been switched to Barracks. Once this is complete, spearmen and settlers should be trained.
Our exploring warrior to the South is uncovering the coast in a westward direction. Our warrior to the North is moving East.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR04-3000BC.jpg

And the Save - 3000BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR04-3000BC.zip)

Oh... and I forgot to put science back to 100%. Would normally have done this before hitting Enter, but there were units unmoved, so it slipped my mind...

Well, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it :D

Good starting location! Lots of BG, some, um, Tobacco? :smoke: Lots of mountains making Iron very likely. Couple rivers, won't be needing many aqueducts. Looks like it's a warm world, so we gotta figure one or two Civs got started in the midst of jungle or desert. No luxes though :(

I like being in the corner, will make conquering the world that much easier :hammer: I feel a Sirianism coming on: It is better to be lucky than be good, and this starting location is quite lucky.

Got it, looks like another feast day.

3000 BC (0)
Move the settler towards the next city position. We can get two cities at each end of this leg of the river that wil be 3 away from each other and the capital. That is the plan I will go with to start. Worker moves to raod towards the new city site and get the tobacco as well.
(I) Nada.

2950 BC (1)
Movement.
(I)Nada

2900 BC (2)
Settler arrives.
(I) Ack! Border of a just built city appears to the northwest of the capital.

2850 BC (3)
We build Graz and it starts a warrior.
(I)

2800 BC (4)
Exploring warriors recalled. No contact yet.
(I)Nada

2750 BC (5)
Mine finished build road.
(I)

2710 BC (6)
Warriors back in the fold, no contact yet.
(I) Vienna Rax->Archer.

2670 BC (7)
Move the worker next to Graz.
(I)Graz warrior->archer.

2630 BC (8)
I can't believe we haven't had contact yet.
(I) Nada

2590 BC (9)
Still no contact.
(I)Nada.

2550 BC (10)
Still no contact. As soon as we make first connact we need to send at least one warrior out so that we can make contact with everyone else and get some help with whoever this is.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR003-2550BC.zip)

Personal request time: Since I can't load the save yet, can y'all post them pretty pictures early and often? Thanks ... :D

Wow, you guys are quick! :D
Good opening moves, how many turns until IW?

I wouldn't worry too much Belisar, since we are going with 4 until Christmas it won't matter. We trust you not to use your forknowledge to make youe choices. When NP goes you take your normal rotation. Just make the best choice with the situation as you see it in the game.

Got it. Nice start, Steve and meldor.

Why do I always get the first-contact round? In our next game, just to guarantee a peaceful start, we should put me last in a rotation of seven or eight. ;)

2550 (0): A Hittite scout appears two tiles north of Vienna, so for the third straight game we're going to have to fight our first opponent during their Golden Age. I don't think we can repeat our Kindermord bei Edrine on this terrain, either.


2510 (1): The Hittites have two cities and 15 gold. They have Alphabet, Pottery, Ceremonial Burial, and the Wheel in addition to our three techs, so we have nothing to trade to them. We have to declare war without getting anything out of the contact.

I switch Graz's build to walls and Vienna's to a spearman.

I get an exploring warrior headed east.


2470 (2): Graz walls --> barracks, Vienna spearman --> walls.


2430 (3): Zzzz....


2390 (4): Vienna walls --> spearman.


2350 (5): A Hittite warrior attacks Graz, held by a spearman defending behind walls, and dies without doing any damage. Our spearman promotes to elite.

Our exploring warrior survives the attack of a Gothic warrior.


2310 (6)-2270 (7): Zzzzzz......


2230 (8): Our exploring warrior discovers ivory. We probably have no hope of building the Statue of Zeus, but it's a nice thought.

Vienna spearman --> archer.


2190 (9): A Hittite archer appears.

Graz barracks --> archer.

We discover the Wheel, and two horses show up within three tiles of Vienna.

I begin research on Iron Working--just a suggestion, as we're at the very beginning of the tech run.


2150 (10): Both our cities have barracks and walls, so we're already getting good value out of being militaristic.

Our elite spearman is positioned where it can reach either city in one move.

The Hittites aren't pushing us hard at all yet, so this may be as good an opportunity as we'll have to found a third city. Graz could switch to building a settler if we choose this course.

The save:

2150 BC, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR04-2150BC.zip)

The eastern lands:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR04-2150BC.JPG

Originally posted by Northern Pike

2150 (10): Both our cities have barracks and walls, so we're already getting good value out of being militaristic.


I'm glad to hear that :D

I agree with NP on expanding as quick as our military can cover it.

...must...forget...where...iron-source...is.....

Got it.

Good build up. The Statue of Zeus would be killer on this variant. I don't know if it would be worth the risk to try and get it.

Worth a try. Get a 3rd city up in the south and run it vacant for as long as possible. :p

Piece o' cake. Just research Philosophy first and get a SciGL either for Philosophy or whatever the free tech we choose. Then rush it. :D

Well, the city that could build it would be up north by itself (it has to have the ivory in its borders.

If we went for it we would have to grab a settler and at least one spear send a second asap. Then it would have to start on Zeus first thing. We would also have to send a worker up there to get the tiles improved. It could be done, maybe. Belisar will have to decide.

Those Ancient Cav are awsome and getting them free is just too much. I would now rate Zeus as one of the top wonders to grab. I would even maybe get it before the GL.

A colony will get the ivory and the wonder started even if pillaged I should think. Interesting idea about the city. Add a rushed FP to the mix and that might just be a wonder powerhouse.

@meldor: Depends on the game you're playing. For NOW or AW, yeah, Zeus rocks, but if you're playing for a Diplomatic or Scientific win... :D

@Coffee: Good call on the colony; however, at least in PTW, if the colony is pillaged it's gone, but you're right, we should be able to keep building if already started.

Preturn: Our militaristics trait has paid off so far.
Everything looks good, just one negative point: we have a severe food-problem.
New settlers and workers are a priority but with barely no bonus food this will be a tough BC-game.
I set Vienna to an instant-worker and will finish thee archer in Graz, then start settler.
This will avoid getting the city back to size 1 for long and allow Vienna producing the necessary units for cover.
After the worker Vienna will continue on military.

2110: worker in Vienna finished, start archer to have some offensive capabilities available.
Move worker to plains to bring irrigation to the Gems tile, after all we are industrious.
Continue exploring with NE-warrior.

IT: The Hitti archer moves back into the fog, maybe he goes after Barbs.

2070: Exploring

2030: -

1990: After the road near Graz is finished and our worker has the option to move back to
save ground I see no reason not to pop the hut with the spear, we have double the HP
and get a 25% bonus against Barbs IIRC.
We are lucky and get CB.
Our scout spots more Ivory on the coast NE, hmm.

1950: Graz archer -> settler
The Hitti archer is back near Graz.

1910: Vienna finishes archer, starts spear.

IT: The Hitti archer is fighting someone in the fog, maybe Barbs.

1870: Move worker on Game tile after irrigation and road on the nearby plains are completed.

1830: Some exploring with the warrior, the archer from Vienna and one of the spears.
Where are the enemy units? Spot a Barb camp on the western coast.

1790: There are dyes near the Hitti city, this paints a big red mark on this spot.

1750: Spear in Vienna finished, up to Steve what he needs next.

I left most units unmoved for Steve.
The forest chop near the city (to irrigate the Game) will be finished next turn, so
we can get another archer or spear in 2 turns.
We are shield heavy and poor on food so lets take out this annoying Hitti city with archers
as quick as possible, the lux will be an additional bonus.
Settler in Graz next turn, we really need a granary in Vienna where the Game tile can be irrigated
in a couple of turns.
I can think of several good spots but can't talk, you know...
I really don't know if we should go for Zeus. It would tie a productive city for a long time
and my turns in RBC3c have shown how hard it is to build an acient wonder by hand on Demigod without prebuild.

Good luck
Belisar

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR04-1750BC.zip)

We got Zeus in Maniac1 without much problem. The colony idea might work as long as the Civilopedia says it just has to have ivory connected and not within its borders. A colony with a spear on it might attract attention away from our cities. It is just a thought. The AC are very, very nice but long range health is more important.

Don't forget that the archers also give defense bombardment in Conquests so they aren't just for offense any more. I would like to keep a couple in each frontline city at least until we can replace them with cats.

Good job so far.

Arizona_Steve is up
Meldor on Deck

I have to inform you that I will probably only be able to play until Chiv.
My saves crash in the Middle Ages, a file named '/art/units/knight/KnightDeath.wav' is not found despite the fact that I have an english version of vanilla civ3 and C&C, just found the problem in LOTR11.
If this one can't be solved, I have to drop, I'm really sorry.
We have a great team and a great series here.

Belisar

Sorry to hear that, Belisar. :( You seem to know a lot about computers and I imagine you'll get this sorted out, but these things are certainly dispiriting when they first happen.

I don't mean to blame the victim, but could this have anything to do with the modifications you made to get us started as the Austrians? Have you tried restoring your original PediaIcons text file? I realize that's not a strictly logical suggestion, but sometimes these snafus defy all logic.

My technical problems have nothing to do with mods.
I deleted all Civ games yesterday and installed vanillaCiv3 and C&C from CD,
same error message when trying the save file from LOTR11 (already in the Middle Ages) with a complete unmodded game (no patches either) :(

Belisar,

What about the autosaves? Can oupost an autosave from the middle ages and let us try and load that one? If the autosaves work then you could always turn it over a half a turn later. It's a long shot but worth a try.

The solution is simple. We can't let any of our Knights die, nor kill anybody else's. :D

Sounds like a bug. You might have the distinction of finding it first. Another long shot would be to disable the sound function, perhaps in the conquests.ini files and/or similar civ...ini files.

Originally posted by ChrTh
The solution is simple. We can't let any of our Knights die, nor kill anybody else's. :D

[Delurk]
Alternatively, copy one of the other death wave files and rename it as required as a temporary measure.
[/Relurk]

Got it...

Thanks for all your hints, guys :)
I will try to solve this one (should have time at Saturday)
It seems I have an US version of C&C and an UK-english version of vanilla civ, I always thought there are no differences between "english" versions that are distributed in Austria.

If all fails, I could get an US version of vanilla Civ3 if there is one available.
In the meantime good luck with your turns, Steve.

Belisar,

Since ou have a legal copy of vanilla c3, you might get the "no-cd" version of the US C3 and then install Conquests over top of that. That may fix the problem at least until you can get a fix.

They let us out of work early today, so here's my turns...

(0) 1750BC
Belisar has left the ball pretty much in my court, as there are several units unmoved. A settler is due this turn, and I'm inclined to send him to the ivory, however that would leave us with a city that is hard to defend.
Iron Working due in 8 turns. We need Pottery (for granaries) and Alphabet, then Mathematics for the Statue of Zeus.
We also need contact with another civ, preferably soon.
No changes to the builds in our two cities.

IBT:
Graz trains settler, starts spearman.

(1) 1725BC
I'm going to send the settler east along the river to settle an intermediate city en route to the Ivory. He will collect some escorts next turn, as there is a barbarian camp next to where I want to settle.

(2) 1700BC
Our warrior move North onto some mountains and spies what looks like the edge of a ruined city. Could it be that the Hitties are at war with someone else? Would explain the lack of units that are being sent our way.

IBT:
Two barbarian horsemen move within range of our northern warrior.

(3) 1675BC
Kill one Hittite archer, but there is another on the way, so I bring up a second archer to cover. I'm forced to do this to stop our worker from being captured.
Fortify our Northern warrior on the mountain.

IBT:
I bow to the RNG Gods, as the second Hittite warrior gets an arrow through him, and our Northern warrior defeats both barbarian horsemen without taking a scratch, promoting to Veteran.

(4) 1650BC
A green border is sighted by our exploring spearman. I also note that the Hittite city next to us is their capital (Ugarit), and that they are playing OCC.

IBT:
Missed a third Hittite archer, who moves onto the mountain next to Graz.
Two horses gallop out of the barbarian camp to the East of Vienna. Looks like they're headed to Ugarit.

(5) 1625BC
Our exploring warrior makes contact with the Iroquois. They are up Alphabet, Pottery, Iron Working and Mysticism, and we have nothing to trade.
I cover our worker with two archers, and Graz with two warriors. At worst, we'll lose one unit.

IBT:
One warrior at Graz is killed. No damage to the archer :(
Vienna completes an archer and starts another.

(6) 1600BC
Linz is founded, and disperses a barbarian camp the "easy" way. Walls are ordered up.
Contact Persia this turn. They have the same techs as the Iroquois, plus Horseback Riding.
Iron working is due this turn, and I am able to turn science right down to 10% and get us 14 gold.
Our worker completes his mining project, and I'm able to move him away from that Hittite archer, and free up two archers to defend Graz.

IBT:
Iron working comes in, 50-turn research started on Horseback Riding.
The Hittite archer loses one hit point to bombardment, the disposes of our elite archer with no further loss :mad:
Graz gets a spearman, starts an archer.

(7) 1575BC
Iron is sighted South East of Linz.

IBT:
A Barbarian horseman takes two hit points off our exploring spear.
Persia begins the Pyramids.

(8) 1550BC
(9) 1525BC
(10) 1500BC

OK, the last three turns were really uninteresting. The Hittite archer that was causing so much grief at Graz appears to be on his way to grab the worker who is building a road to Linz. There are two archers in Vienna to take him out once he gets off the mountains.
Hiawatha still wants one gold/turn for Pottery. That should disappear next turn. I will be avoiding trades that involve us giving gold/turn until this game is patched.
I set Vienna to settler (to grab the iron). That can be vetoed if more troops are needed.

Just for ChrTh...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR04-1500BC.jpg

And the 1500BC save file (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR04-1500BC.zip)

I see it and will try to play it tonight...

Good turns. It looks like there is more ivory to the north as well. Maybe there is still a possiblity to get Zeus. It sure would help against those MW we are going to face next. Luckily it seems that the Hittites and Iroquois absorbed each others GA and that is really good news for us.

:eek: Is this a destroyed and a captured Hitti-city?
Did the Persians and teh Iros start a dogpile against them?
That would mean we are going to face Immortals very soon.

Based on where it's located, I'd say it's a destroyed Persian city (unless the Hittites had a vision of a future resource :rolleyes: )

We have to take care of the Iroqis first, so hopefully the Immortals will be nigh-useless when we get to the Persians (although remember that Immortals are good at killing Knights)

We need to get some troops patrolling the capital of the Hittites. Let's not let them get another city without a fight.

EDIT: OH, I get what you're saying, that the Hittites were forced into an OCC...yeah, it sure looks like it. Lucky for them they ran into the Civ that was required to declare war on them... :mwaha:

It seems I have solved my technical problems (at least for now), had to edit some konfiguration files.

Looking forward to this one
Belisar

Great, Belisar. :) I was sure you'd solve the problem.

Sorry for the delay. Getting ready to move and the Holiday kepp things hopping.

1500 BC (0)
Set Lux up to keeping Vienna from rioting.
(I) Hittite archer moves away to heal. Linz produces walls and starts a Rax. The Persians start the Colossus.

1475 BC (1)
We have horse barbs tto close to our worker, I move a spear from Vienna to cover.
(I) The Hittite archer was going to protect something, a settler maybe? Graz produces an archer and starts a spear.

1450 BC (2)
The horse is no longer a threat so the spear returns and one of our archers moves to the mountain to spy things out. The archer from Graz moves towards Vienna. The archer in Linz takes out the fortified barb.
(I) A second Hittie archer appears.

1425 BC (3)
The archer from Graz joins the first on the hill.
(I) A Hittite archer/spear pair leaves Ugarit headed our way. The regualr Hittite archer moves towards our unprotected worker by Linz.

1400 BC (4)
Not much.
(I) More Hitttie archers appear (is their war with everyone else over?). The arbs finish the Oracle in Mecca.

1375 BC (5)
Cover archers with a spear.
(I) Hittites are making a major play for Linz. Vienna settler->Spear. Graz spear->settler. The Iroquois start the Temple of Artemis.

1350 BC (6)
Drop lux tax to 0%. Settler moves toward Linz but take the back way to avoid the Hittites. I pull the archers and spear off the mountain to help out at Linz.
(I) A Hittite archer attacks our stack and gives us an elite spear.

1325 BC (7)
I move the worker to safety and our stack approaches Linz. The spear and two archers are across a river so our spear and archer there should be safe.
(I) The first Hittite archer gives us another elite spear, the second just dies. The Hittite spear then crosses the river to pillage making it easier to attack. The Vikings complete the Colossus in Copenhagen.

1300 BC (8)
We kill off the spear and the settler pauses a turn in Linz to allow its escort to catch up. I go ahead and nab Alphabet form the Iroquois for 168g. No one we know has Math.
(I) Another Hittie spear comes out to play. Linz Rax->Archer. The Irouois decide they like the Temple of Artemis better than the Colossus.

1275 BC (9)
One archer returns and the elite spear and an archer begin escorting the settler to the ivory on the flood plains.
(I) Vienna spear->settler.

1250 BC (10)
Kill off the Hittie spear.

I know I should have gone after the last Hittite city with the archers and not played around, but I think we can get in at leat two more cities before we face someone stronger. I also think we should get embassies before we take on the next opponent.

For ChrTh:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR004-1250BC.JPG

And the Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR004-1250BC.zip)

Got it. Our position is developing nicely. :goodjob:

I may have three city-placement decisions to make, and we haven't had much discussion of the alternatives. My first inclination is to

1. found our ivory city right on the southern elephant,

2. use the settler from Graz to found on the horses southwest of Vienna, so that the new city would have four BG without a cultural expansion and could start a prebuild immediately, and

3. send the settler from Vienna straight north under escort in search of a good site, provided the Hittites don't display enough strength to make this seem risky.

So, any suggestions/objections/alternatives? In particular, does anyone think we should be more aggressive about trying to claim all three visible ivory sources? Is it reasonable to hope, in Conquests, that this might give us a world monopoly of ivory and guarantee us the Statue of Zeus?

I'm all for agressive settlement in this variant, so trying to snag the additional ivory might not be a bad idea.
Two additional points:
i) We better have iron only when facing our next opponent
ii) I would suggest settling 1 tile SW of the southern horse tile, this would get the grassland south of Graz into our boarders too.

If you are going to agressively settle to try and get all of the Ivory in sight then I would get the northern ivory first and then the single.

1) The second Ivory source.
2) The single Ivory source.
3) The horses.
4) Ugarit if they found another city.

1250 (0): OK, the aggressive settlement policy it is--first the northern ivory, then the southern, then the river site close to home.

I get a warrior moving southward from Vienna. We might as well establish the extent of our southern peninsula.


1225 (1): Graz settler --> spearman.


1200 (2): Lux rate to 10% to keep Vienna content at size four.


1175 (3): Iroquois warriors block our route to the intended site of our next city, so we lose a turn on this project.


1150 (4): The Iroquois are still in the way of our settler/spearman/archer team. The archer takes out his frustrations on a Khoisan encampment, and we gain 25 gold.

I switch Linz to building a spearman, which we'll need to garrison our southern ivory city.

Vienna settler --> archer.


1125 (5): Our exploring warrior completes his investigation of the southern peninsula, having found nothing more exciting than a grassland/tobacco tile.

Linz spearman --> worker.


1100 (6): A camp of Alemanni containing nine units (mixed warriors and horsemen) is three tiles from the intended site of our southwestern city, so we'll have to delay this foundation a little.

The Persians begin work on the Great Lighthouse.

Graz spearman --> spearman.


1075 (7): We found Salzburg to claim the northern ivory. I accept a dry location for this city to establish a poaching-proof grip on both ivory sources.

The Persians are building the Mausoleum, meaning they're at least five techs ahead of us and very likely six, if they got the bonus tech for being first to Philosophy.


1050 (8): We shoot down a Hittite archer outside Vienna--the only sign of life from the Hittites this round.

Linz worker --> archer.


1025 (9): Vienna archer --> spearman.

The Iroquois are building the Great Lighthouse.


1000 (10): We found Innsbruck to claim the southern ivory.

We found Weiner Neustadt to the southwest of Vienna.

I didn't spend any gold buying techs this round, in the hope that we might make more contacts. But it's beginning to look unlikely that there are any more civs on this continent, and we're probably reaching the point at which cash which we don't spend will just be extorted out of us, so perhaps the time has come for some tech purchases. In theory we could pull off a twofer when Mathematics appears, but I don't know whether we could afford it at the monopoly price.

At least one of our new coastal cities should probably build a curragh after finishing its walls.

Vienna could certainly be switched to a settler build if we want to found more cities in the immediate future.

I don't know what to recommend about the nine barbarians lounging around in their camp near Weiner Neustadt, since I don't really know yet how barbarians behave in Conquests, but keep an eye on the situation.

The save:

1000 BC, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1000BC.zip)

Our growing empire:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1000BC.JPG

Originally posted by Northern Pike

We found Wiener Neustadt to the southwest of Vienna.

I'm glad Wiener Neustadt is near Vienna, like in real life :D
Very good expansion-turns NP :goodjob:

Got it.

Why are there all those barbs? :hmm:
Could someone have gotten to the Middle Ages already? :eek:
Persia is definitely the 800-lb (1760-kg) gorilla in this game, it appears...and of course, they're 3rd on our list...

Preturn: We defenitly need more workers and settelers and because we are poor on food
we need some granaries. I buy pottery from Xerxes for 98 gold and swap Vienna and
Linz to granaries.

975: Graz finishes spear, starts another.
Salamanca finished the Pyramids, meaning the Iros will get a growth boost,
St.Petersburg finished the Mousoleum.
A stack of 3 Perian units wlaks south, I think they will go after the Barbs.
Hitti archer enters our territory SW of Vienna.

950: Our northern scouting warrior seems to be trapped between opponnent cities.
The Hitti archer moves on a mountain tile.

925: The Hitti archer moves finally on open ground near Vienna, I kill him
and get an elite archer.
I begin connecting Innsbruck to the road network, next priority will be the ivory.
Vienna grows, lux to 10%

900: The Hittis send the next archer, Ugarit is size 2, when we have enough archers we will have to attack
to follow our variant.
Innsbruck: Walls -> rax
Salzburg: Walls -> Curragh
Wiener Neustadt: Walls -> rax
I begin connecting the northern horses.

875: Our southern worker roads the horses near Wiener Neustadt
A Persian archer is spotted near Salzburg.
The Persian stack west seems to have withdrawn back north.

850: Ok, Ugarit back at size 1, they just whiped a second archer.
Kill the Hitti archer north of Vienna on plains with our elite archer.
Start roand on ivory.

825: Wiener Neustadt connected and 2nd horse online
Ugarit expands boarders, 1 Hitti archer visible, moves south.
I do't want to wait another 20 turns for HBR, we need horses and stop archer production
I buy HBR from the Iros for only 79 gold.
I nix research, with this annoying 50 turn-rule we won't wait for Mathematics that long.
A plus of 4 gpt is more helpful.

800: I should have bought Myst. with the rst of our money, but with the gpt bug
I wanted to save cash for Writing.
Now I get the bill, xerxes extortes 23 gold.
Ivory is no online.
The Persian stack is back in the west, walking south.
I kill the remainig visible Hitti archer.

750: Moscow finishes HG, Mecca Artemis.
Vienna: Granary, set to settler.
Graz finishes horse, starts another. The Granary in Linz will be finished in 3 turns,
I suggest producing military and workers in the city while Salzburg could improve the floodplains
and act as our main worker factory.
As soon as we have enough offensive units we should take out Ugarit to not exploit our variant.
Did MM in Innsbruck this turn to get some more gold, should be redone next turn when rax finishes.
Left horse in Graz and elite archer+spear south of Ugarit unmoved.

On the bad-news side:
We get all (6 of 6) shield in Graz and all (3 of 3) in Innsbruck, there MUST be somtehing wrong.
I'm 99.9% sure I didn't change anything in the general settings when setting up the game but this smells
like an error. If I messed things up accidently I apologize.

Belisar


SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR04-750BC.zip)

Wow, maybe it's Russia that's the big dog in this one ... heck, they all seem powerful ... except us and the Hittites.

At least there have been no cascades to Zeus :groucho:

I have the game...

@Belisar, your save URL was incorrect - they changed the upload directory to uploads6 (from uploads5).

(0) 750BC
Belisar has left a few units unmoved, so I'm going to get the Hittie-killing stack-of-doom (HKSOD) set up.
It looks like Persia is going to give us some help with that Barbarian camp next to Wiener Neustadt.
I see that I'm going to get one settler to position this turn, he will claim the iron. I'd like to get a prebuild going for Statue of Zeus, but I think we need to get that settler out first.
Iroquois and Persia are up Mysticism and Writing. Mathematics hasn't appeared yet.

IBT:
Innsbruck builds Barracks, starts Curragh.
Wiener Neustadt builds barracks, starts Horseman.
It looks like everyone else has been researching Mapmaking, as the Iroquois begin the Great Lighthouse.

(1) 730BC
One Hittie archer moves into view.

IBT:
Hiawatha kicks our warrior out of his territory.
One persian warrior defeats what looks like five or six barbarian horses (well, he was on a mountain across a river), and promotes from regular to elite.
Saltzburg builds Curragh, starts Barracks.

(2) 710BC
Our horseman attacks. Result: one dead Hittie archer.
Got to get that warrior back through Persian lands. Let's see how far I get.
Keep checking the techs. 5 gold/turn for writing (in addition to our treasury).

IBT:
The persians helpfully destroy that barbaran camp near to Wiener Neustadt.
Linz builds a granary, starts settler.
Amazingly, Persia doesn't complain about our warrior in their territory.

(3) 690BC
Iroquois will sell us writing for 2 gold/turn now.

IBT:
Vienna pops out its settler just as it grows to size 6. Best prebuild there is a temple (9 turns). So I'm going to swap Graz to palace prebuild, and pump a few horsies out of Vienna.

(4) 670BC
Graz switches to palace prebuild for Temple of Zeus. There's a bonus grassland there that has to be mined soon.
We are having to pay support costs. Once I get the city by the iron, that will allow for a few extra troops.

IBT:
Watch a stream of persian troops heading back to Persia, having defeated the barbarian camp.

(5) 650BC
Buy writing from the Iroquois for 250 gold.
It looks like Persia got the extra tech from Philosophy, as they are up Code of Laws, Map Making and Philosophy. The Iroquois lack Code of Laws.

IBT:
Persia kicks our warrior out of their territory.

(6) 630BC
Settler moves into position.

IBT:
The Iroquois complete the Great Lighthouse at Tonawanda. Scientific great leader perhaps?

(7) 610BC
Klagenfurt founded next to the iron. Warrior ordered up.
I'm against disbanding troops, but that warrior isn't going to get back to our lands any time soon. Saves us a gold per turn in upkeep.
Mathematics has appeared. Both the Iroquois and Persians have it. Due to our prebuild there is no need to purchase the tech yet, so I lean towards establishing some embassies.
Embassy established with Persia. They are training immortals, making 7 shields per turn. They are already in Republic. Persepolis contains a palace, barracks and temple, they have access to 3 gems and one incense. Population is 4, due to grow in 2 turns.
X-man is still annoyed with us though.

IBT:
Our curragh survives an attack by a barbarian galley. They sink, we promote to veteran.

(8) 590BC
Move a stack of troops next to Ugarit. Their top defender is a regular spearman.

IBT:
Linz builds settler, starts horseman.
Innsbruck builds curragh, starts horseman.
Wiener Neustadt builds horseman, starts another.

(9) 570BC
Kill two spearmen and one archer in Ugarit. Our elite spearman takes down the last redlined spearmen without taking a scratch (no leader though). Walls are ordered up.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04_550BC_A.jpg

I call up Hiawatha and insist that he gives us Mathematics. He declines, and I declare war.
I call up Persia, and they won't ally with us for anything.

IBT:
Two Iroquois warriors wander into our territory.

(10) 550BC
We get a little bad RNG luck as one iroquois warrior kills our attacking archer, then redlines a horseman before dying.

There is a Hittie worker in Ugarit.
There is a settler South East of Vienna, who is on his way to the peninsula.
I put Graz onto a palace prebuild for something (Great Library, Statue of Zeus).
Ugarit is heavily fortified with three spearmen and an archer.
I expect all hell to break lose in the next ten turns. Have fun Meldor...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04_550BC_B.jpg

MLDR04 - 550BC Save File (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-550BC.zip)

I see it.

It's coming folks give me one more night.

No problem, Meldor. I'm probably courting the Wrath of Steve by saying this, but I've been in extreme feast mode and I'm relieved that this one hasn't come back to me yet. ;)

The Wrath of Steve has been tame ever since he's had Conquests to start playing with ... :D

Actually the lack of feast mode keeps my G/F happy...

I'm finding it impossible to enjoy any solo games with Conquests, due to the game-breaking bugs. I really think Firaxis/Breakaway should've had a patch out within a week or two of the game's release, particularly with the whining that has been going on in the Conquests bugs forum.

Both problems (corruption/gold-per-turn) are EASY to fix (I'm a programmer, I should know), so there is no excuse.

On bugs, I thought Belisar might need to know this

"3. "Sad but true, you have to manually install the Civ3 1.29F patch before installing C3C". (otherwise you get some errors with .wav files). Not every C3C buyer has internet access."

Got it from Bamspeedy's sticky.

550 BC (0)
Not much to do. We need more units! Ok, well we have been doind a lot of settling. We only really have one spot to settle left before we have to clean out some rome the hard way.
(I) A stack of 2 and a stack of 4 Iroquois warriors come into view. What, no MWs?

530 BC (1)
Move archer off mountain to kill warrior in our lands. Horseman hold fast to heal 1HP. I hate to do it but I give the X-man 131g and 23gpt to join us in removing the Iroquois. Better we pay the Danegeld than we get both of them against us.
(I) Stinking reg warrior offs our vet archer. The Iroquois warriors decide that it is more important to protect from Persain attacks than ours.

510 BC (2)
Mot much. Up Lux as Vienna is now size 6.
(I) Vienna Spear->settler.

490 BC (3)
We spot a border to the north but it looks like an Iroquois border. I don't know if it is worth risking our poor little boat.
(I) The Persians kill off the last warrior.

470 BC (4)
Our horse is now healed.
(I) An Iroquois setter spear pair appears. I see Iroquois swords but they are heading for Persian lands. Wiener Horseman->Horseman.

450 BC (5)
Villach founded on the tobacco. starts a warrior.
(I) The settler pair reverses coarse. Linz Horse->Horse

430 BC (6)
Kill off wandering warrior.
(I) Vienna Settler->Horse, Klagenfurt Warrior->worker

410 BC (7)
Gathering the horses. Move worker to start road to the iron.
(I) An iroquois archer comes out to play and the settler pair steps into range.

390 BC (8)
Kill the archer. Our horse redlines but we get the two slaves. Our poor little boat to the north ends its movement next to an Iroquois galley. We wish it well and hit the return.
(I) The galley sails past us and over to what must be the island we saw earlier. Ugarit Walls->Rax

370 BC (9)
All is strangely quite.
(I) Another Iroquois archer comes out to play. Salzburg Spear->Horse, Villach Warrior->worker.

350 BC (10)
We kill the archer and get an elite horse.

We have three horseman outside of Chondote and 4 more due next turn. That should give us enough to start working on the Iroquios cities in the south. The Persian seem to be bewteen us and the main Iroquois area. There is a settler near the last spot in our near area to found on. We might squeeze in one more. We could use a settler to replace a city with.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-350BC.SAV

We need to get Math soon, but it will be a while before we can afford to either buy or steal math.

Arizona_Steve, The Eager (but for what? :love2: :groucho: )
Meldor
Northern Pike (Up as soon as he recovers)
Belisar (On deck)
ChrTh (Keeping us in line until :santa: )
Coffee (Still relaxing :wavey: )

Had a restful Thanksgiving and looking good for Christmas. ;) I'm hoping the patch will be out by then. I don't want to start anything new with conquests untill the majors are fixed. As soon as that happens I'd love to rejoin.

The Iro probably don't have horses, at least they never do when I play them.

Just let us know when you are ready to hop back in...anytime.

Got it.

If we're lucky enough to have the choice, would we rather have the Statue of Zeus than the Great Library? I suspect this is something of a fun-versus-pragmatism decision.

I think we won't get the GL in time but we could get Zeus if Xerxes has no Ivory. This is a continent-game, so there is no Ivory on the other landmass.

We have an embassy with Xerxes, we would know if he started Zeus. If we can snag the GL, I think we can still get Zeus.

I'm just concerned we won't get Zeus before metallurgy shows up ...

350 (0): I switch Vienna and Linz to settler builds, which complete immediately. We'll need a settler to replace Chondote, and at least one more when we push forward from there. Well done giving Linz a granary, Belisar.

WN and Innsbruck complete horsemen.

Oops, Ugarit's only citizen is entertaining herself. ;) I watch for a few hours and then send her to work in the fields.


330 (1): I get horsemen, spearmen, and settlers moving towards Chondote.

We found Eisenstadt on our southwestern peninsula.

IT: Not much.


310 (2): More movement towards Chondote.

IT: We get the Forbidden Palace message {hollow laughter}.

The Persians are building Sun Tzu.


290 (3): Still more movement towards Chondote.

I have to increase the luxury rate to 20% to maintain order in Graz.

IT: The Iroquois are building the Great Wall.


270 (4): Final approach to Chondote.

IT: Four Iroquois galleys are cruising off our coast. I have to start arranging two-unit garrisons for Klagenfurt, Villach, and Eisenstadt, though this detracts from our buildup on the main front.


250 (5): The attack on Chondote: elite horseman defeats regular spearman, veteran horse defeats regular spear and promotes, veteran horse redlines regular spear but dies, veteran horse finishes off redlined spear and takes the town, which I raze. We gain three workers, since we capture one when we enter the city.

IT: Vienna swordsman --> spearman, WN horseman --> horseman.


230 (6): Consolidation around the ruins of Chondote.

IT: The Iroquois land a Mounted Warrior, the first I've seen this round, next to Villach.

We see a Persian archer defeat an Iroquois archer outside Oka.

Ugarit and Klagenfurt barracks --> spearman, Linz horseman --> horseman.


210 (7): We found Krems one tile southeast of the ruins of Chondote.

IT: Our spearman in Villach repulses the attack of the Mounted Warrior, which redlines and retreats.

A Persian archer dies attacking Oka.

.
190 (8): One of our horsemen finishes off the redlined Mounted Warrior and promotes to elite.

IT: The Iroquois land a warrior next to WN.

The Persians and the Iroquois make peace.

Vienna spearman --> horseman.

The Persians are building the Great Wall.


170 (9): Our elite horseman in the area defeats the Iroquois warrior near WN.

IT: The French complete the Great Wall.

WN spearman --> horseman.


150 (10): Graz has accumulated enough shields to complete the Statue of Zeus. So, I buy Mathematics from the Persians for 183 gold and 6 gpt, and switch Graz to the Statue, due as soon as we press Enter.

We connect Ugarit and its dyes to the rest of our nation, and I'm able to reduce the luxury rate to 10%.

The Iroquois made trouble with landings on our shores this round, as indicated, but they were completely passive on the main front.

We can bring the Persians back into the war against the Iroquois for 22 gpt. I assume we'll want to do this immediately, before pressing Enter, but I HAVEN'T done it yet just in case anyone wants to discuss the matter before we commit this much of our income.

Our strike force is in Krems, along with a settler. The strike force isn't much larger than at the beginning of my round, because the Iroquois operations off our coasts were a distraction, but we should be able to augment it by three or four horsemen before too long and then strike for Oka.

I hooked up our only iron (outside Klagenfurt) without thinking about it much, because the workers seemed to have been moved into place to do it. But if we aren't going to build swordsmen, having the iron connected is a needless risk right now, and I wouldn't object if we disconnected it.

The save:

150 BC, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-150BC.zip)

We definitely need to bring Persia back into war ... they're in the Middle Ages!

We're getting a new Wonder! [dance] :beer: [party]

The new north:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-150BC.JPG

I would be thankeful for a swap, had only limited time this week and have to finish RBC3
tonight.

I can wait (shock! horror!), as a delay will mean that I don't end up playing this game and LotR11 at the same time.

Ok, but I will not get to it until Sunday evening, it is 23.20 now.

Sorry, should have looked at the game yesterday:
Preturn: Military situation looks good and we have a healthy core established.
The tech situation is a different one, we are way behind with just one trading partner,
almost an AW situation tech-wise.
Zeus would be ready next turn, but with our opponents already in the middle ages we will be facing Knights soon
and Met. is not that far away.
I checked F1, we could get Lit. in 9 turns and a palace prebuild would last 14 turns, so we would have
a good chance to get the GLib (I know there is a certain cascade-risk involved)
I think this is a important turning-point, the GL could really solve our severe tech problem.
One more day delay is probably not that important compared to one of the most important decisions
in this game, so lets hear what the team has to say.

Belisar

I agree that we should try for the Great Library. If we don't get it, the odds are that we'll be able to default to the Statue, albeit at some waste of shields.

I would agree that we go with GLib; worst case scenario we lose 1 4/5ths of an Ancient Cavalry.

As I stated before NP's turn, if we can get the GL we should take it. I think Zeus will still be ther for the taking. I like the free AnCav and they even work well with cat against higher defenders. However, it isn't something that we should risk the rest of the game on. A delay of another 20-30 turns getting Zeus isn't that big only 5-6 units. At worst we miss the GL get Zeus in 10 turns and only lose 2 units. At best we get the GL and then restart Zeus and get it as well. We really need contact with the other Civs. Maybe sneak in some boats to send off into the wild mists...

^You did say that, didn't you? Hmm...I guess I didn't realize how close we were to Lit...

Here comes :santa:

With the GL as our priority I swap Graz to palace and Wiener Neustadt to Zeus
(as I said I consider it is not a high priority but I want have all options available)
Vienna to settler (growth in 3, settler in 3)
Research to max, Lit. in 9 turns.
Everything else looks good, press enter..

IT: The Iros land a sword near Villach.
The Persians start Leo.

130BC: Innsbruck finishes spear, starts horse.
Villach : walls -> rax
Kill the Iro sword without problems.
I want to grab two sites north, agressively near the Iro cities, send settler and small stack.

IT: A Barb galley fails attacking our southern Curragh but redlines it.
The Persians start Leo

110BC: Linz: horse -> worker (we really need them)
I set Salzburg a granary to produce more workers
Krems: Walls -> Cat
Eisenstadt: rax -> walls

IT: The Iros land the next sword near Innsbruck, we have to reinforce our coastal cities south

90BC: Kill the Iro sword.
Vienna builds settler, start
Settler/mil group arrives at northern spot.

IT: The Iros land their 3rd sword, this time on a mountain near Klagenfurt near our iron,
we will have to get a unit on that mountain ASAP.
Persia extorts 20 gold, Hmmm.

70BC: Ugarit produces cat, starts another.
Linz: worker -> horse
Klagenfurt: spear -> sword
Have to reduce science a notch to prevent us getting broke (The 20 cash I just had to spend
on our 'neighborhood' is missing now), costs us a turn in research.
I settle Landeck north on fresh water, start walls.

IT: Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good, the Iro swordsman ingnores the Klagenfurt
with it's 3 units and attacks our warrior on the iron mountain, now we have a vet warrior :lol:

50BC: Our northern Curagh spots a foreign boarder NW but this will be suicide-crossing.
We advance on Caughnawanga with a mixed stack.

IT: An archer attack at Caughnawaga forces one of our horses to retreat.

30BC: I have to risk our curragh, it ends the turn on a sea square but the contact is much more important.
France gives us Myst., Construction and all their 52 cash for HB and Writing.
We raze Caughnawaga after 2 horses retreat. We also kill an Iro archer that was about to pillage our
road network. The bad news is an Iro sword-stack (7!) advancing south.

IT: Our Curragh sinks at the French coast
The Iro swords move towards Oka.

10BC: I retreat from the swords back to Landeck.

IT: Things will get ugly, count 9 swords, 1 archer, 1 spear and 1 Cat heading south.

10AD: Concentrate forces at Landeck, settle the military settlement Neusiedl on a hill,
I know this is not a perfect place but will be more easily to defend than other sites.

IT: The first sword impales itself on Landeck

30AD: Villach: rax -> sword
Landeck: walls (just in time) -> rax
We get Lit. and I swap Graz to GLib, due in 15
Lit. gets us a MA with Perisa against the Iros.

IT: The Iro stack moves back towards Oka, the Perisans begin to pay off.

50AD: The GLib is due in 14 in Graz and Zeus in 16 in Wiener Neustadt, if we still want it.
We need a lot more Cats if we want to fend off such stacks without a lot lost horses.
Hope Xerxes does his part of the deal, then we could get Oka in the near future and end the Iro presence
in the south afterwards.
Neusidl should be reinforced when Landeck is save and build some culture after the walls,
the southern Persian city really messed up my plans for this region.

Good luck Steve
Belisar

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/meld4-1.gif

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-50AD.zip)

We are in a serious danger zone with the GL. Hopefully no unmet Civ are working on it. Good job advancing the cause by both you and MP.

Arizona_Steve, The Eager (No more :love2: time for :ninja: )
Meldor (On deck)
Northern Pike
Belisar
ChrTh (Here comes :santa: )
Coffee (Lurker #1:wavey: )

Coffee (Lurker #1 :wavey: ) Saying nice turns all the time seems a little repetitive. Nice turns guys. Good luck with the Great Library.

Originally posted by meldor
We are in a serious danger zone with the GL. Hopefully no unmet Civ are working on it.
I agree and if this was deity I doubt that we could get it but on demigod I give us a 75% chance.
The one thing we can learn from this situation for future (deity?) games is that a prebuild for the GL can't be too early

(0) Inherited Turn
Of immediate note is the SOD of eight swordsmen and one archer to the North of Landeck. It looks like Belisar parked a bunch of troops in the city, but the big problem are the mountains next to it. No way to stop the attack I'm afraid, so I'll bolster defence as best I can.
All usual checks are OK, let's see what that Iroquois SOD does.
I decide not to spend any money this turn if possible, I'd like to see if we can get the Great Library.

IBT:
In a display of total :smoke: the Iroquois move that SOD into Oka. Geeze, they could've done some damage.

(1) 70AD
I pick up 8 horsemen and move them, along with an elite spear onto a mountain two tiles from Oka, so that I can see if that Iroquois stack moves out of the city this turn.

IBT:
... and back comes the stack-o-doom. Complete with an extra archer.

(2) 90AD
There's a regular spear guarding a catapault across the river from our stack. If I cross the river first with a horseman, I'll leave him exposed, so I take a chance and attack across the river with an elite horseman. The first horseman retreats without doing any damage, a second elite wins and we get an extra catapault. All remaining units are moved out of the way of the Iroquois SOD, those that can get back to Landeck do.
I have no idea why there's a warrior sitting on the iron. He's sent to Linz for an upgrade.

IBT:
... and the SOD disappears back into OKA :smoke:

(3) 110AD
I place one lone horseman on the mountain to watch over Oka. Hopefully that stack will head towards Persia.

IBT:
Some of the swordsmen move off towards Persia, but the majority come our way. Maybe they're after the horseman on the mountain.

(4) 130AD
Move horsie back to landeck. Cannot believe the AI indecisiveness.

IBT:
You guessed it, the SOD goes back to Oka.

(5) 150AD
I'm going to delay a turn before deploying troops in the hope that the AI will be REALLY dumb and move those swords towards Persia.

(6) 170AD
Another SOD, ours this time, moves off towards Oka.

(7) 190AD
Fortify our SOD for one turn, so that a couple of swordsmen can join in the fun.

(8) 210AD
Our SOD moves next to Oka, and all I see is a spearman as the defender. I guess we'll see if there's any swordsmen there. Exciting huh?

IBT:
Answer: There aren't. I see one yellowlined swordsman move into the city to defend it.

(9) 230AD
They have at least three spearmen in Oka, as determined by two catapault hits and a miss. We defeat the three spearmen, the aforementioned yellowlined swordsman and an archer using (mostly) elite horsemen, with only one retreat and no losses. It's nowhere near the Iroquois core, so I think we're pretty safe keeping the city. Walls are ordered up. We get three workers who will connect it to the road net.

(10) 250AD
We've probably seen the end of the Iroquois attacks, as they have to go through Persia to reach us. I've fortified a bunch of units in Oka, many of which are healing.
Great Library due in four turns, Statue of Zeus in six.

Here is the "nice" save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-250AD.zip)

Man, the suspense is killing, I can't wait...oh yeah, its me...

Nice turns indeed, Belisar and Steve. :goodjob:

As best I can measure, the Iroquois have nine times our culture. This means that the flip danger in Oka is about 3.5 times what it would be in the neutral case even allowing for the favourable distance-from-capital factor. It also means, if the culture ratio is an uncapped factor in the flip formula as well-informed posters seem to believe, that we'd need a preposterous ninety units in the town to eliminate any risk of revolt. So we really could lose our whole stack in Oka, and I think we have to either reduce the garrison drastically or abandon the city.

More broadly, we've dug ourselves such a deep hole culturally by not building temples or libraries to this point (though it was the right thing to do) that we'll never get out of it. We're just going to have to raze almost everything we take, without much need for case-by-case decision-making. :die:

Originally posted by Arizona_Steve

In a display of total :smoke: the Iroquois move that SOD into Oka. Geeze, they could've done some damage.

Hehe, i knew they would get confused if they have enemies in both directions,
so this is not unexpected. They began to withdraw on my 9th
When I settled Landeck there was not a single Iro unit within sight and I wasn't too aware of the fact that those mountains would be an ideal path for them.
I thought I could push the front further during my turns, but when this SoD arrived I had to change plans. Fourtunately, Lit. came in soon enough to get the Persians into an alliance.

Originally posted by Arizona_Steve

I have no idea why there's a warrior sitting on the iron. He's sent to Linz for an upgrade.

Hehe, this warrior is a hero, he defeated an Iro sword by defending our Iron with his live.
Ok, seriously, we had zero money for an upgrade, Lit came in on my 9th turn, then I could set the slider towards cash again.

Actually I moved him to Linz, but didn't bother with the upgrade.

250 AD (0)
I establish an embassy with Paris and find they are building welath? The city is size 6 and has Temple, Walls, Colosseum, and the Great Wall.
(I) An Iroquois galley comes sailing down the coast. Linz Sword->Temple, Krems Cat->Cat

260 AD (1)
I assume the Iroquois are attempting to disconnect our iron so I move a sword on top of it. We are in serious need of a new road system. All the roads cross the rivers at the wrong points and one sword has the cross three times to get to the front when he should only have to cross once. I send our little boat towards France and wish them luck.
(I) Eisenstadt worker->Curragh. The Iroquois start Sun's. Wouldn't it be nice to steal that from them?

270 AD (2)
Our Curragh survives! Dial up X-man and get an ROP. Horses head for Tyendenaga and the swords head north.
(I) Vienna Sword->Sword, we quell two resistors in Oka and they riot, switch them all to taxmen, Neusiedl Rax->Spear.

280 AD (3)
More movement. The horses arrive.
(I) We get to watch something in the mist die attacking Tyendenaga. The archer there then impale itself on a horses lance. We get the Great Library in Graz and start a temple

290 AD (4)
We lose an elite horse and a vet horse taking the city but Tyendenaga is ours. I keep it as otherwise it will be in Persian culture and we lose it. It is only size two. I start it on a temple. Up lux to keep Graz from rioting. We should be able to buy Persian lux next turn.
(I) We learn Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making, Polytheism, Monarchy, and Feudalism.
I start an infinite turn run on Engineering.

300 AD (5)
I don't know if we have a chance, but I swap Wiener Neustadt to Sun's and Vienna to SoZ. 45 turns to Sun's is a long time. Start worker to change that.
(I) I have a sword shadowing the Iroquois galley and it can't make up its mind where to go. Krem Cat->Cat.

310 AD (6)
Swords continue through Persian lands. I adjust all the cities with specialists. Upgrade as many spears as I can. Our sword stack arrives at the Iroquois border.
(I) Klagenfut Horse->Temple.

320 AD (7)
Movement.
(I) Linz Temple->Market, Innsbruck MDI->MDI

330 AD (8)
More movement. The Persians blocked us from the Iroquois city so we go around.
(I) Ouch. The Iroquios nail all the Persians and our spear and one sword. Ugarit MDI->MDI.

340 AD (9)
I begin operation "Withdraw swords for upgrade". I also start upgrading our spears to pikes. Since our alliance with the Iroquois is up this turn, I redo it for a straight up 20 turns.
(I) Watch some action up north. Oka walls->Rax. Volcano erupts beside Tyendenaga.

350 AD (10)
I withdraw all troops from Tyendenaga. There is a spear set to arrive there next turn. The horses headed north. Almost all our spears are upgraded. We need to swap out the rest and upgrade them as well. The swords are returning for upgrade to MDI. Sun's due in 33, SoZ in 11.

Arizona_Steve, The Eager
Meldor
Northern Pike (Up)
Belisar (On deck)
ChrTh (Almost there )
Coffee (Lurker #1 )

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR004-350AD.ZIP

Good round, Meldor. :goodjob:

Here's a question for the whole team. We have the Monarchy tech, and we'll never be in a better position to endure some anarchy, since we're under no military pressure at all. The downside of revolting at this point is that it would compromise our so-so shot at Sun Tzu, due in 33 turns. So, should we revolt to monarchy now?

I incline towards revolting, on the grounds that 1) Sun Tzu isn't that vital when we get twenty-shield (or eighty-gold) barracks anyway, and 2) 33 extra turns of despotism would be a lot even if they guaranteed we'd get Sun Tzu, which of course they wouldn't. But I know that some of you value Sun Tzu more highly than I do, so let me know what you think.

The only question would be what effect the anarchy would have on the alliance with the Persians. I just renewed it and we now have an RoP. Before we pull the trigger, it would be nice to get some troops up there to fight and also get enough gold stock piled to be able to pull Persia back in the war if they make peace. Likely around 400 to 500g at least.

We got the GL, good to hear.
I doubt that we can build Sun, maybe Xerxes builds it for us, so lets revolt at the point we have enough cash to renew the Persian MA

350 (0): OK, I won't revolt until we have a decent nest egg built up, which in practice means that the fun of conducting our nation through its anarchy will fall to Belisar. ;)

I switch Graz from temple to marketplace (more useful, I think, given that Graz has the Great Library to provide cultural expansions).

I switch Neusiedl from pikeman to temple. Here, on the other hand, we need a cultural expansion.

I switch Krems, which has the look of an excellent settler/worker factory, from catapult to settler. Making war against the Iroquois on the other side of Persia will be awkward whatever we do, but I think we'll want the option of founding native cities up there.

IT: Not much.


360 (1): The Persians have musketmen.

IT: Tyendenaga flips--to the Persians, not the Iroquois, so I can't re-take it. We lose only a spearman. This event emphasizes Oka's desperate need for a cultural expansion, and I switch to a temple there (due in forever, but we have to get started).


370 (2): The great backward movement of our swordsmen for upgrading purposes continues.

IT: Krems settler --> settler, Villach MDI --> catapult.


380 (3): I upgrade a swordsman to MDI, at the new cost of 30 gold. Upgrades of this sort are the only ones I'll make--but even so, this goal and that of accumulating enough cash to get us safely through anarchy are not exactly consistent.

IT: Landeck pikeman --> pikeman.

The Russians finish Knights Templar, which takes the shine off our still-awaited completion of the Statue somewhat.


390 (4): Another sword --> MDI upgrade in Landeck.

IT: We get Republic from the GL.

The Russians complete Sun Tzu.


400 (5): The Iroquois have taken Sardis, and are only two squares from Persepolis. How often do the Persians lose a war in this era?

IT: Graz marketplace --> MDI.

The Persians switch from Sun Tzu to Leonardo in Pasargadae, predictably. Pasargadae is not an especially productive-looking town, and it might even be in danger from the Iroquois, though I grant that AI-AI wars don't often move this fast.


410 (6): I upgrade our last three swordsmen to MDI in Landeck.

Having switched Wiener Neustadt to the palace pre-build the previous turn (due in only ten turns at full production, unfortunately), I now MM it for minimum shield production to keep the pre-build alive as long as possible (palace due in 25 turns). It seems to me that with the Great Library in our possession, and given that the only Leonardo build we know of is in a suboptimal city, we have a reasonable chance of getting some useful Wonder in WN. It's a gamble, and one I wouldn't try if we were hard pressed in a deity game, but I think it's the right course in the present circumstances.

IT: We get Monotheism from the Great Library.

Eisenstadt galley --> galley.


420 (7): I have to send our new exploring galley west from Eisenstadt, even though starting in this direction it may just duplicate the discoveries of our heroic curragh, because on any other heading it'll run into Iroquois galleys.

IT: Linz marketplace --> MDI, Salzburg temple --> galley, Innsbruck MDI --> catapult, Klagenfurt temple --> pikeman, Villach cat --> cat.


430 (8): Our soldiers become very familiar with the Tyre-Hamadan road.

IT: Ugarit MDI --> MDI.


440 (9): Our spearhead units push a little beyond Hamadan, without spotting the Iroquois.

IT: Vienna STATUE OF ZEUS --> marketplace.


450 (10): The Persians have Chivalry.

Well, a very quiet round. I never saw an Iroquois ground unit.

We have 374 gold with the important upgrades completed, so we're not far from being able to afford a revolution.

Upgrading our swordsmen and sending them back to the front has been a slow business, but we'll be able to put together a mini-Sod with nine MDI and numerous supporting units (including a settler) just north of Hamadan in two turns, if our leading units wait where they are.

We have five horsemen strung out along the Tyre-Hamadan road to keep our gallant Persian allies from blocking it. But if you think the time has come to move them to the front, which it probably has, they all still have their movement for this turn.

There's an Iroquois galley off Klagenfurt. It's been travelling west to east.

There's a corridor of sea (I mean as distinct from ocean) to the west of Zohak Island. I haven't sent our galley into it, because there's a lot it can do before it starts taking risks, but it's something to bear in mind.

Until Oka has a third tile available which produces more than zero food, its third citizen should just collect taxes.

Krems is oddly micromanaged because it's about to produce a settler, so check it next turn.

If my decision to keep the palace pre-build going in WN proves unpopular, by all means cancel it. But the gambit has to be either played out to the end or abandoned right now, before the waste of shields involved in quitting grows any greater. EDIT: Except, of course, that if we're going to revolt immediately, it can't hurt to keep the pre-build during our anarchy and see what the GL produces for us.

If we do have the opportunity to change WN from the pre-build to a Wonder, immediate micromanagement will be necessary, since it's set for minimum repeat minimum shield production at the moment.

The save:

450 AD--most horsemen still have movement (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-450AD.zip)

Probably more fun than a shot of the Tyre-Hamadan road:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-450AD.JPG

:goodjob: NP and here comes the Anarchist :D
got it

If nothing wlsw we will get some free cannon fodder out of it.

Go Belisar...

Due to lets say 'unexpected' events :eek: during my turns I need more time to play, will post tomorrow

:hmm: I'm guessing Persia attacked...

I was expecting a Persian betrayal...that is why I didn't want to rush into anarchy. It seems the AI jdislike of certain govenment types has been strengthened, or so it seems to me.

Sorry if I made you think we are dead, sometimes the "unexpected" can be positive, at least part of it. :D
I was already sleepy last night and after 4 "normal" war-turns... ok, lets see my report.

But I would give quite something for your thoughts after I maybe used the wrong smiley in my post,
somethinh like:

ChrTh, our strict observer: "He killed us, he killed us, that's what you get when you don't
do it all yourself!"

Meldor, our fearless leader: "Nobody jumps overboard, what can he do in just a few turns,
even if plays it totally incompetent..."

Steve, the Eager: "Post the save, post the save, just give me a tooth-brush and I wipe Xerxes out!"

:lol:

Preturn:
Can we get Leo? interesting question, here is my analysis:
Pasargadae is size 5, they started with the construction of Sun 310BC, 48 turns ago, so
let's use an average size of 4 instead.
The available terrain should produce 8-9 shields before and 6-7 shields after corruption.
So they have accumulated ~288 - ~336 while they need 420 meaning they will funish it in 12 - 22 turns.
But I was already prooven wrong when I doubted that we could get the GL, 10 turns later I realized we
could get it, so I won't end our current prebuild.
Even if we don't get Sun we could get for example the HE if we get an army in time, our economy can
support one 'risk' city.

Military situation looks good, the idea with the 'horse-road' isn't good, it is excellent.
Only one tile is missing for a complete road-network north,
maybe we have to connect this tile once we capture some Iro slaves.
Vienna is the only city that needs 20% lux but this will end in Monarchy.
I change Innsbruck to an additional galley, new contacts are highest priority at this point.
Move MDI/pike stack in the forest towards Arbela which was captured by the Iros.
The Persians have Chiv, but the Iros seem to have a more productive core.
With the Persian muskets, I doubt that the Iros will gain much terrain.
I consider our situation very interesting. We have to 'raze and replace' all cities in the north
as suggested by NP, therefore setting Krems to settler was the right move.

IT: Persian Immortals kill two Iro units, the 3rd Immortals dies.

460: Graz: MDI -> MDI
Krems: settler -> settler, the city has +6 food and needs MM every 3 turns.
I move a scouting-stack towards Arbela, spot some Iro ground units.
Cats are moved north.

IT: The Persians help us on the northern front, a small Iro stack of 2 archer, 1 worker and 1 MDI
moves next to our leading stack.

470: We kill the Iro stack with our MDIs and get one new elite unit and a worker, pikes are sent for cover.
Linz: MDI, growth in 1 so worker in 1 at 10 spt.
(we still have not enough workers, we even haven't had the labour to connect our additional luxes for trading)
We have 480 cash, so time to start searching for our new King :D, viva la revolution!

480: I leave the spear near Arbela for the Persian Immortals and gor for the town instead.
Bombard Arbela with cats and reduce HP from pike. Horse retreats, 2 MDIs take the city, will have to
abandon it next turn.
Not much else since we are in Anarchy, but we are making 12 gpt due to some tax collectors.

IT: There are a lot of Immortals running north, one kills the spear but gets redlined.
One rarly sees this: The Iros finish the redlined Immortal with a pike
They also move 3 MDIs south, 2 stop near Arbela.

490: I move our stack into a defensive position
Our 1 HP! curragh spots foreign boarders near the French lands.

IT: An iventful IT:
We seem to have contact, we get Engineering, Chivalry, Invention, Gunpowder ,
Arghhhhh, I should have waited with the revolution
Mecca finished Sistine!
Zeus produces Anc. Cav.
The Iro MDIs fight the Persian Immortals and vice-versa, they ignore our SOD with their pikes.
Our Gems deal with the Persians expires.
And guess what: the Iros must have landed units near Tyendenaga, they got it back :lol:

500: We have contact with Arabia and Russia.
The Russians seem to be the tech leader, they have only 10 cities but are running around with Caravels!
They are also bulding Leo, I think we are too late.
The Arabs have double the cities but lack Engineering :D that was the point I thought it is better to get
some sleep and use our opportunities 100% right.

Engineering gets us 42 gpt and 13 cash.
I remember we need Navigation for map trading.
I take another 52 gpt from Abu for Invention and our income is now 108 gpt in Anarchy :D
I renew our Gems deal with Xerxes for 230 cash, we really have the money.

Now guess the reason for the Persian desert city Ergili: Salpeter
The good news, guess the reason for the 2 former southern Iro cities: also Salpeter.
Our 2nd settler which moved north to the front is immediately redirected to resettle
the Iro city to get the source into our boarders.
Back to the military front: I kill two injured Iro MDIs, a spear and an archer.
Our SoD advances towards Akwesasne.

IT: An Iro settler/pike pair walkes south one MDI attacks our stack but dies and 2 additional MDIs come within sight.
We get Theology and Education from the GL, so I guess we met the Arabs AFTER the Russians,
our new hitlist would be

Iros
Persia
France
Russia
Arabs
???

This is why I think Russia is first one the list
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/meld4-2.gif

510: Russia is up Astronomy AND Banking, we are up Gunpowder to Abu and Theology and Education to Xerxes,
Hmm, if I had known this I would have waited with the Gems deal one turn and sold him Theology as he has just 130 cash now.
And of course the French, they are totally backwards.
Kill the reg-pike with an MDI and get elite and 2 slaves, moving towards Akwesasne is takes some time with this mixed stack.
Ah, the Persians are hooking up OUR salpeter instead of their southern source (they hada one in the north but
the Iros disconnected that) Hope Bactra doesn't get a boarder expansion and we are quick enough.

IT: An Iros MDI comes out of the fog using their road-network and kills our exposes elite MDI, my bad.
A Scand. galley stops near our fearless Curragh, we now know our last "victim"
final hit-list:

Iros
Persia
France
Russia
Arabs
Scandinavia

520: The Scands are backward guys and have nothing to offer.
Abu has another 57 gpt for Gunpowder, Xerxes would still pay only 140 cash for Theology.
We are up 163 gpt in Anarchy, which means >310 in reality due to the gpt bug as 150 gpt come from friend Abu.
I hope you don't consider this as an exploit, I think we just have to sell the techs when we have it.
We approach Akwesasne.

IT: The Iros come with 6 MDIs at Akwesasne, 2 attack our stack.
we lose 1 pike, they lose 1 MDI.

530: Arghhhh we are still in Anarchy.
The battle for and near Akwesasne is brutal, our casulaties are 2 MDI we have 6 injured units, the Iros
lose 5 MDIs and 2 pikes. We raze the city and found Kufstein near the Incense on the same place, rax are ordered and
hopefully rushed whenever we get out of this Anarchy%&@%&
Begin connecting excess-Ivory and Dyes
We finally settle Bischofshofen, our salpeter and Xerxes continue connecting it to our new town,
Hopefully he stops this turn so we can produce those cheap pikes.
The Arabs got Astronomy, I think from the Russians, but we don't need it yet.

IT: We are finally in Monarchy.
The Persians finish Leo in Pasargadae, Hmm, they needed just 9, not 12-22 turns (the city grow to size 6)
The Russians swap to Copernicis and finish it.
Some Iro-Persian attacks, both lose 2 units.

540: I changed a lot of build-orders, some to Knight, chancel the galleys and rush the market in Vienna
so we can use 10% lux next turn.
The Persians have indeed stoped working on our salpeter, we can delay the connection.
I left most of the money in the bank to allow Knight-upgrade by Steve.

IT: The Persian-Iro battles continue, the Persians send a settler pair north, I'm guessing they want
their salpeter back.

550: Vienna: market -> knight
Zeus gives us the 2nd Anc.Cav.
Rush rax in Kufstein.
Russia got Chemistry this turn so my min-run is obsolete.
I left our offensive stack on the hills unmoved for Steve, I would wait for the Knight-upgrade after we have connected Kufstein (per road or harbour)
The settler in Krems could be rushed THIS turn, the city is +10 food!
The 3 horses that cover our road north from Persian units should be replaced with something else
now that the upgrade is available, but keep the road open.
Sorry Steve, I left you without settlers on the front, I used the one we had and needed the one I built
for the salpeter, couldn't rush either as we were in Anarchy, but Krems should do this every 4 turns
(4 turn-settler factory when partially rushed, without! granary)

We have 14 turns for our palace prebuild in Wr Neustadt and you all know what I want :D BACH
Please, try to snag it and I'm perfectly happy :D
We have 2 options: We could research MT in 13 at 90% or we could hope that Russia is quicker.


Good luck by kicking some Iro butt :D
Belisar

The new front
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/meld4-3.gif


SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLD04-550AD.zip)

I thought the Persians would stab us, but I had all the confidence that you and AS would handle it. My worst fear would be if the declared while we had most of our troops up north. If they declared with all the troops on the road, we would have a pillage field day.

Great work on the contacts. I don't consider it an exploit in this game to get gpt for techs. someone is going to get it and it might as well be us. It isn't something that the AI doesn't or can't do. It is something that makes it harder on us to keep up with the tech race. Hopefully the patch will be here before Christmas. Now paying gpt is a little harder but I see nothing wrong with that either as long as we need to do it.

This game may turn out to be the most interesting of the group so far with us having to go past Z-man to get at the Iroquois. When it comes to Persia's turn things may be even more fun.

Official hitlist:
Hittite - gone and long forgotten
Iroquois - getting the double fun of us and X-man
Persia - doesn't know they are helping their ultimate doom.
France
Russia
Arabs
Scandinavia

Arizona_Steve, The Eager (Up)
Meldor (On deck)
Northern Pike
Belisar
ChrTh (Almost there, 10 more days to :santa: )
Coffee (Lurker #1 )

Yep, I followed the crowd and got myself a Dell 2001FP from the Dell Small Business site (yep, they're selling 'em for $749, not bad for the first 20" 16ms LCD screen...)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04_550AD.jpg

Messed around with Morrowind and Uru, amongst others. There seems to be less ghosting as compared to my previous Hitachi 751 CRT monitor.

Anyway, on to the Civving. Got it.

Very nice Steve. I off to Dell.

Edit: The same old simul post.

:thumbsup:, Belisar. I liked your post on the possible reactions to your teaser, too. :lol:

Do you just not bother learning the duration of a period of anarchy from the domestic advisor, or is this information no longer available in Conquests?

Steve, I notice that for the moment we can research Music Theory at the 90%/13-turn rate mentioned by Belisar and still pull in about 100 gpt. But we also have the option of extending the palace pre-build in WN by shifting one citizen from a mined grassland tile to tundra and then pillaging either one mined grassland tile (palace due in 18 turns) or two (palace due in 24 turns). Since there doesn't seem to be a cascade out there now and we'll probably get Bach as long as the pre-build doesn't run out, this would be a small price to pay.

The recent posts bring up an interesting question. From what I've read the patch will be avaiable this week. I assume you'll want to patch right-a-way. That means you'll have 10t of double income only. You have Persia and Bachs in your sights. Can you do both? My guess is yes.

I assume the gpt figure that NP was mentioning was the gpt shown in the domestic advisor screen not the buggy amount.

So Coffee, with the patch out are you ready to play again?

As far as the patch goes, I would say let it be tested for a day or two before we patch this game. It won't have to slow us down any.

Hmm... I vote to patch immediately. Those bugs kill my enjoyment of this game.

Yes, with the patch out I'm good to start again and definitley no more than 2 games at one time for me. I don't know what the turn-a-round time is but I'd like to pick it up around the 25th if thats ok. Thanx and looking forward to rejoining. :)

Patch after some testing by others (they aer yery quick when it comes to new toys) seems to be best.

And welcome back coffee, if you join after Xmas you probably get to wipe out France :D

@NP On the rounds of Anarchy: it seems I didn't count it correctly, I had some "feel" that the next turn we would be in Monarchy and was disapointed when we were not.

:cry: I wanted to wipe out France :cry:

;)

Come on :santa:!

I am sure it will take more than 10 turns to both land and destroy them. We will be doing extremely well to even have taken out the Iroquois and Persians by then.

But possible for this team :)

Very true, especially now that those powerful AC are finally coming out at the rate of 1 per 5 turns. We should get 5-6 before metallurgy hits. We can wipe out at least two Civs with that... :D

(0) Inherited Turn
We're doing quite well for troops, but we need some boats. There's an Iroquois iron source up North between Allegheny and Niagara Falls that I would dearly love to pillage. The best thing for the purpose would be an army of musketmen. Let's see if I can get a Military Great Leader or two.
We need settlers badly. Krems is sitting on an absurd +10 food/turn and already has some shields accumulated towards its settler. So I rush it.
With Incense in the North, and most of our cities in the South, we need a couple of harbors. A high priority, as some of our southern cities are bordeline rioters. Note that the link will be severed when we declare on Persia, but we should get to enjoy the benefits while we are attacking the Iroquois.
Lots of troops are fortified in Persian territory. I unfortify them and let them continue their Northward trek.
Since the team consensus seems to be to get Bach's, I switch to Music Theory (due in 13 @ 80%), leaving 101 gold/turn for rushes.
Tyendenaga needs to be razed at some point. Right now there is no harbor there, and the trade route is cut off by Persia.
Rush the pikeman at Innsbruck, so that it can start a harbor next turn.

IBT:
Kufstein - Barracks => Harbor.
Inssbruck - Pikeman => Harbor.
Krems - Settler => Settler.
Neusiedal - Temple => Pikeman.
There is an Iroquois galley wandering around our Southern shore. I'll keep my eye on it.

(1) 560AD
Not a lot happens. I think my turns will consist predominantly of troop repositioning, to set up the attack for Meldor.
Rush an aquaduct at Salzburg to free it up for shipbuilding.

IBT:
I see a Persian settler pair headed towards the open land next to Kufstein.
Ugarit Pikeman => Pikeman.
Salzburg Aquaduct => Galley.

(2) 570AD
There are Immortals in the way, so there is no possibility of blocking off the Persian settler pair.
Lots of troops reach Kufstein.
We won't be able to complete the road to Kufstein, as there is an Immortal at an inappropriate place. So two more sections of road to be built.
Switch citizens in Saltzburg to resume growth.

IBT:
It looks like the Persians are going to settle on the ruins.

(3) 580AD
Dyes got connected during the last interturn, but it looks like they don't kick in until the next turn. I'll check next turn, as I should be able to reduce luxuries to 0%.
More troops reach Kufstein. Upgrades are not possible until the road network is completed.
Move an archer off our iron onto the adjacent mountain, to prevent a landing on the high ground.

IBT:
Villach - Pikeman => Knight.
Landeck - Pikeman => Pikeman.

(4) 590AD
More troops move into Kufstein. The Persians have inadvertantly helped our road network, and the current section of road should suffice to complete the trade route.

IBT:
Vienna - Knight => Knight (plus an Ancient Cavalry).
Graz - Knight => Knight.
Linz - Knight => Knight.
Klagenfurt - Knight => Knight.

(5) 600AD
This is strange. I connected the dyes and I still cannot reduce luxuries. In fact I have to increase them, as Vienna grows to 11 and is about to riot. I put luxuries to 20% for a turn or two while the road network is completed.
Figured out the reason - Ugarit is built on top of dyes.

(6) 610AD
Upgrade 6 catapults to trebuchet.
Our trade network completes, and incense comes online. Luxuries are reduced to 10%.
I let the harbor at Innsbruck complete (it's due next turn), but switch the harbor at Kufstein to a temple.
Rush three temples to push back borders.
With Music Theory and the Palace due in 8, I call up the "Pillage People" and start pillaging around Wiener Neustadt.
Upgrade 6 veteran horsemen to knights. Elites are not upgraded.

IBT:
Bischofshofen - Temple => Worker.
Ugarit - Pikeman => Temple.
Kufstein - Temple => Pikeman.
Innsbruck - Harbor => Galley.
Oka - Temple => Barracks.
Krems - Settler => Settler.

(7) 620AD
More troop movements.

IBT:
Salzburg - Galley => Pikeman
Russia begins Magellans.

(8) 630AD.
Load a pikeman and a settler onto the galley, and ship them towards Kufstein. A second settler is hiking across Persia to Kufstein, with two pikemen for company.
Pillage a second tile next to Wiener Neustadt. Music Theory is due in 6, Palace in 8.

(9) 640AD
Troop movements.

IBT:
Vienna - Knight => Knight (plus an Ancient Cavalry).
Ugarit - Temple => Pikeman.
Arabia begins Magellans.

(10) 650AD
More troops move into Kufstein.

Meldor should have some fun here...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-650AD.jpg

Go get 'em Meldor!! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-650AD.zip)

Mmmm....stack of death....

Oooh, Trebuchets! What's the diff b/t them and Cats? And are they working better?

I'm not sure how the prebuild is timed but I checked Hot6 and there we timed the prebuild with the tech advance. The tech advance occurs before production. By accessing the city screen from the advisor (F6 -> F1) you could change the build order from palace to Bachs.

Edit: darn bad writing of mine. This intended as an fyi.

^Right, and that's not considered an exploit, iirc

By Steve's notes the prebuild shouldn't be a problem. I will check on it first thing when I get the file tonight.

Forget Superevie's Christmas Avatar thread... In a moment of boredom, I got my other (and considerably better looking) half to pose for an updated picture...

Originally posted by Arizona_Steve
Forget Superevie's Christmas Avatar thread... In a moment of boredom, I got my other (and considerably better looking) half to pose for an updated picture... :rotfl:

650 AD (0)
Get embassies. Russia is the only one we can trade with so they get Ivory for 126g and TM. They get Inscense and 26g for their WM. She gets dyes for 184g. The Iroquois don't look so tough now that the fog is lifted. Rush settler in Krems. Wake up large stack and start it on the move to Centralia.
(I) Linz Knight->Knight.

660 AD (1)
SoD arrives. We will start pounding Centralia next turn.
(I) Graz Knight->Knight, Eisenstadt temple->harbor. The Arabs start Bach's and MT drops to 1 turn.

670 AD (2)
Drop a scientist for one turn in Krems as I am just going to rush settlers there anyway. Drop science to 0% with 217gpt income and still get MT in 1. MM Weiner to get palace in 2. Pound and then raze Centralia, two elite victories, no leaders. The Persians seem to be working on Mauch Chunk so our fast units head that way to not let them capture it.
(I) They Iroquois finally show themselves. We lose one knight but they lose three MDI. We get MT and start on Chemistry. Innsbruck Galley->Galley.

680 AD (3)
Bach's is due in 21. Arabs are building Bach's in Mecca, their capital and that isn't good. Investigate and theirs is due in 16 and set to grow in 5 with only unimprved grass land to out a citizen on. Pull workers off mountain. Move towards Wiener. I can starve Villach and 3 more 2 shield squares for Wiener. We need 210 shields. If we get 14 spt after corruption, that should drop Bach's to 14 turns and we beat the Arabs just by the fact that our production goes first. If we get 15 spt we beat him by one turn. That assumes that the Arabs don't mine that unimproved mountain they are using or either grassland. It will be tight. Elite horse takes out 1 hp MDI and a knight takes out the last reg pike in Mauch Chunk. We raze it and get 3 workers as there was a settler in town. Slow units move on Cattaraugus and fast move towards St. Regis. Swap some pike builds to settlers and rush them in twons under size 7.
(I) Renew the alliance with Persia for 39g. One MDI comes out to give us an elite pike. Ugarit Settler->pike, Salzburg Pike->Pike, Krems Settler->Settler, Klagenfurt Knight->Aqueduct, Landeck Pike->Temple, Neusiedl Settler->Pike.

690 AD (4)
We lose 2 Knights but raze the city of St. Regis gaining 4 workers and a cat. The slow units continue the march to their target. I am getting nervous so I trade MT and 909g to Russia for Banking. Turn on Science to get Economics in 23.
(I) Vienna Knight->Bank, Villach Knight->Harbor. The Russian's start Bach's. Renew Gems deal with Persia for Insense and 41g.

700 AD (5)
I merge in 3 workers into Wiener but the town is very unhappy. I have to get silks from Russia and still raise the lux tax to 30% to keep it happy. On a g0od note, Bach's in 14. The backup tech for Smiths is due in 24 now. Some fast units retreat with the workers and cat to heal while the rest march on Oil Springs. The slow units arrive outside Cattaraugus.
(I) Watch the Persians take out one reg pike in Oil Springs but the second holds.

710 AD (6)
The slow units bombard and the raze Cattaraugus gaining one worker and losing MDI. The fast units take out one fortified and one unfortified reg pike in Oil Springs and gain a worker without loss. The city of Bruck is built on the ruins of Mauch Chuck. Move pike to slow down advance of Persian settler. They are going to get a city up here as fast as the Iroquois are folding. I have five more settlers coming but they are trailing. The settler and pike in the galley are landed to build on the ruins of Centralia. I merge in three more workers into Wiener now that they have mined one square and shave 2 more turns off of the build. I have to left lux to 40% to keep things going.
(I) We lose an MDI to a counter. Bischofshofen Worker->worker. Linz Knight->Bank, Oka Rax, Pike.

720 AD (7)
The fast units advance on Grand River but the Persians will beat us there, the slow units advance on Salamanca. Block Persian settler again, darn.
(I) Oh well, The Persians take Grand River. Innsbruck Galley->Galley.

730 AD (8)
The city of Gmuend is founded next to the ruins of Centralia. I decided to move it over one. The fast units change direction and start towards Salamanca as well.
(I) Watch the Persians lose 3 knights to counters. Graz Knight->Knight. Bruck Temple->Rax. The Arabs start Smith's, so mush for the backup plan.

740 AD (9)
Both the fast and the slow units are now outside Salamanca. Turn off research on economics. Russia and France sign an MPP!!! WTF, that means they are way ahead of us.
(I) Ugarit and Salzburg Pike->Musket. Eisenstadt Harbor->Musket. The Russians start Smith's.

750 AD (10)
We bombard Salamanca and then our elite MDI lead the way. Four straight vectories later and we have captured the city with 2 cats, 2 workers and the Pyramids. Well, at least I got one wonser on my watch!

I leave the question of tech to the next player. I was afraid that this might happen. Witht he gpt bug the AI races up the tech tree. We will most likely have to steal our way up the tree. We should probably wait until we have Bach's and then make an effort to reduce lux to 0%. Thereafter we can start making safe steal of tech until we are back in the race. We should probably start a prebuild for ToE if we are going to have a chance to get it.

We should have 7 turns left on Bach's. I am hoping that the Arabs were in there GA and drop out so that all my sweating was for nothing. I started moving Knights towards the Galleys instead of up the road. There are 4 settlers ready to be put in place. I would consider just capturing the last Iroquois cities and then load the boats up to take the islands. The temple in Salamanca needs to be rushed ASAP. I switched in the end to building defensive units as we should start now getting prepared to fight Persia. They have a lot of knights we can catch up in the top area, but we should be ready to lose a city or two.

When the patch comes out, it might be worth thinking about putting our FP either in Salamanca or in some Persian location.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-750AD.zip

Official hitlist:
Hittite - gone and long forgotten.
Iroquois - Gassed and on the ropes.
Persia - In denial
France
Russia
Arabs
Scandinavia

Arizona_Steve, The Eager
Meldor
Northern Pike (Up)
Belisar (On deck)
ChrTh (Almost there, 9 more days to )
Coffee (Almost ready to rock and roll )

Originally posted by Arizona_Steve
Forget Superevie's Christmas Avatar thread... In a moment of boredom, I got my other (and considerably better looking) half to pose for an updated picture... It has been humorous to watch the reactions of the majority of the posters here, tripping over themselves...Worth a :lol: or :lol: :lol:

I hope itwas no misunderstanding when I set Krems to +10 food, I thought we could partially-rush the settler every 4 turns, sorry if I didn't explain my intention clear enough.

Originally posted by Arizona_Steve
Forget Superevie's Christmas Avatar thread... In a moment of boredom, I got my other (and considerably better looking) half to pose for an updated picture...

:D

ho! ho! ho! :)

Got it. Very nimble footwork regarding the prebuild, Meldor. :goodjob:

Where is this Christmas-avatar thread, anyway? It doesn't seem to be in Off-Topic.

It's in the "Computer Talk" forum.

750 (0): I switch Graz to a palace prebuild.

IT: ____, the Persians take Tonawanda with four knight attacks.


760 (1): We take Niagara Falls, garrisoned by two pikemen, for no loss, and capture five workers.

IT: The Russians poach the city site south of Grand River, one turn before we would have reached it.

Salamanca temple (rushed) --> worker.

Kufstein galley (rushed) --> harbour.


770 (2): We take Allegheny from its garrison of two pikemen, losing an ancient cav in the process.

I found Weiz in the gap south of Salamanca.

IT: Bischofshofen worker --> walls, Innsbruck pikeman --> marketplace, Neusiedl pikeman --> trebuchet.


780 (3): Preparations for the invasion of the Iroquois islands. Until we get Astronomy, the only safe galley route is via the two-tile mountainous island, so this operation will be slow to get started.

IT: The French sneak-attack us for the sake of making one swordsman assault, which fails.

Salamanca worker (rushed, to get the native population down to one) --> walls.

Gmuend galley (rushed) --> walls, Krems settler --> settler.


790 (4): We destroy an Iroquois swordsman landed near Allegheny, for no loss.

IT: All at once the Persians make peace with the Iroquois and demand dyes from us. Given the way our units are intermingled with theirs, we can't afford to absorb a first strike, so we yield.

Villach harbour --> aqueduct.


800 (5): Zzzz....

IT: Klagenfurt aqueduct --> harbour.


810 (6): Six units take ship for the Iroquois islands.

I found Feldkirch NW of Salamanca.

IT: Wiener Neustadt completes Bach, and since we already have the Statue (militaristic) and the Pyramids (industrious):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-810AD.JPG

That is great news, a Golden Age to get ready to pound the Persians.

The Russians and the Arabs switch to Adam Smith. I'm able to cut the lux rate to 0%.

Vienna bank -->knight.


820 (7): We land six units two tiles from Gayagaahe.

IT: Bischofshofen walls --> trebuchet, Linz bank --> knight, Oka pikeman --> trebuchet, Klagenfurt harbour --> marketplace, Neusiedl trebuchet --> aqueduct.


830 (8): Our mini-SoD approaches Gayagaahe.

IT: A French galley appears out of the blue and sinks one of our galleys--an empty one, fortunately.

Various towns complete their walls.

Krems settler --> settler, Landeck temple --> courthouse.


840 (9): We take Gayagaahe from its garrison of a pikeman and a spearman without loss, and our second victory produces the Great Leader Mack.

A fascinating choice now faces--hold on, not under the new rules. I immediately use Mack to form Mack's Army, into which I load two knights.

Finally a change in the tech position, as the Persians have Astronomy. I get it from them for Banking and 278 gold.

IT: Ugarit musketman --> marketplace, Kufstein harbour (rushed) --> trebuchet.

More walls complete.


850 (10): Mack's Army takes Gandasetaigon from its garrison of a single spearman, and I switch Vienna to the Heroic Epic.

Three elite victories produced one Great Leader this round.

We don't have an alliance with the Persians at the moment, since I didn't want to limit our options, and they're furious with us (despite our ongoing RoP agreement). Remember that we're at war with the French as well as the Iroquois.

Our forces in the north are positioned to deal with flips, French landings, and to some extent a Persian sneak attack. They're not set up for an offensive, so if you decide to go to war with the Persians you'll want to redeploy first.

We've just taken Gandasetaigon, so it can't flip this interturn. The way I have our units arranged around Gayagaahe will cost you a turn in getting to Ganogeh, but will prevent disaster if Gay. flips. Note that the Iroquois have Goigouen on the distant southern island.

We'll need a caravel to move Mack's Army off the island it's on, and we have one in Kufstein.

Now that we're in our GA, the palace prebuild in Graz may well be approaching completion too quickly (28 turns to go), especially if we intend it to get us ToE. If you think this is the case, we can default to a bank in Graz with no loss of shields, or of course MM (in this case really pillage) the city for lower shield production.

I have a lot of infrastructure under construction at the moment, since it's important to make progress in this area during the GA. But if you think we aren't preparing well enough for the Persian war, by all means change some of my choices.

I haven't done it yet, so as to leave you with more cash, but we should probably rush the temple in Weiz.

The French want to play early? Interesting. Don't forget that they have an MPP with Russia. If we trip it then pull Arabia and Scandinavia in on our side. Get them in against the Franch and Persians as well. It will help to slow down the tech race too. Arabs are looking pretty scary on the other land mass, but then again, so did Babylon our first game...

The save:

850 AD, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-850AD.zip)

One more thing, if we trip the MPP with Rusia, that will mean we don't have to worry about stealing tech from them.

The north now:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-850AD.JPG

Man, the Persian war is going to be EPIC...

Bach, the rest of the continental Iros, new wars... NP certainly got his part of the middle ages :D
I will likely just prepare for the Persian war, maybe the honor of starting it will fall to Steve.

got it

Since Russia and France have an MPP, if we were to trigger it, Russia has a nice little city on our continent we can take ... plus, if I'm reading the map correctly, there's an island with an Iroqi and 2 Russki cities on it, take the island at once...

The 2nd try and upload is not working, frustrating

Will try later

I'm sorry, just the report, this is my 3rd try, upload isn't working and I don't have the time to try it a thousand times.


Preturn: I agree with NP using our GA mainly for a massive infrastructure push and I will
fit in as many knights as possible
The one thing I don't understand are the aqueducts in size-2 cities Eisenstadt and Villach
Villach is swaped to a Caravel which we need to get Goiouen on the southern island,
once we own the continent we should grow this 2 sites with workers from the corrupt regions
to get full fishing villages with a high commerrce output.
Eisenstadt has enough shields accululated to be swaped to knight.
We have 4 waiting settlers but we need more workers so our high-food site Krems is swaped to worker
(Innsbruck is already working an unimproved desert tile for example)
Swap Graz to bank as already suggested by NP, rush temple in Weiz.
Some troop repositioning north and south.

IT: spot a French galley in near Graz.

860: Graz: bank -> courthouse
Linz: knight -> knight
Weiz: temple
We go for Ganogeh, one of the 2 left Iro cities on the islands north.
Our in Caravel in Kufstein starts operation "get the army back"

IT: A French 1HP galley commits suicide and we get a vet galley.
Scary, 4 Russian Galleons move near Niagara Falls.

870: Salzburg: courthouse -> market
Krems: worker
We land near Ganogeh, after our galleys are empty we sink an injured Iro galley and
get an elite galley.
:lol: the French talk and give us their 14 cash for peace, I also sign a RoP.

IT: And this is not good, Persia and Russia sign an MPP!
Arabs complete Magellan

880: Wiener Neustadt: market -> bank
Chemistry is still very expensive, so we steal it.

IT: Xerxes wants a RoP, I think he might be up for something.

890: Kufstein: Walls -> musket
Linz: knight -> knight
Innsbruck: market -> courthouse
Oka: Trebuchet, Krems: worker


900: Vienna finishes HE, starts kinghts in 3
new Anc.Cav. from Zeus
Klagenfurt: market -> bank
Graz finishes courthouse, starts prebuild
Our silk-deal with Russia ends.
I don't want to help Russia (they have tons! of cash due to the bug) so I sell
France Astronomy for Spices and all their cash.
I love our GA as we have accumulated enough money to steal Metallurgy
We land at Gewauga, the Iro capital.

IT: Persia wants to renew our Gems deal, no chance.
I check all cities to prevent riots in the IT.

910: Villach finishes Caravel -> market
We need the 5th lux badly so I make a wine-dyes deal with Abu because Russia
is no save partner after the MPP with Xerxes.
We take the Iro capital in the north without problems, now only the southern city is remaining,
the Caravel in Villach is already moving.
I use our spare workers in the north to build some fortress which I will upgrade to barricads
next turn. This way we are pretty good protected from Persian attacks from the Persepolis-direction.
There is, however the question how many units they have in their 2 northern cities.

IT: The Russians complete Smith in Moscow
The Arabs swap to Newton and complete it.

920: Linz: knight -> knight
Eisenstadt: knight -> musket
Bruck: rax
We complete the first barricade south of Bruck, from this position we reach the mountain tile near Sardis
and near their northern salpeter source in the first turn of the war.

IT: The Iros sink one of our empty galleys near their former capital

930: Ugarit: market -> musket
Krems: worker -> worker
Landeck: courthouse -> market
The last "Iro expedition" goes for the southern island
finish another barricade north, this one is the 3-turn link between Kufstein and Bruck


There are the following decisions left:

1) I got us up to Metallurgy because getting MT quickly
would give us a technical advantage over the Persians we will need.
They have one salpeter source in the south and one north, same with iron.
If we can cut these sources it would give us a huge advantage, fighting longbows and spears with Hussars,
so getting MT isprobably the number 1 priority

2) When to declare war. We have a 6-turn Dyes deal left with them (from Meldor, he probably
didn't expect the Iros collapsing that quickly, he was just too succesful :D
On the other side, our Caravel will probably need this 6 turns to get the last Iro city.
I just have a mixed feelings concerning our situation. This variant was clearly designed
to be at war all the time and now we are ~8 turns (from 910AD on) just preparing and not really fighting.

3) How to deal with the Russia-Persia MPP situation. If we get the Arabs against the Russians
I fear that they would swallow Russia and we have a 400 kg gorilla (~880 lb)

4) If I would have to declare against the Persians I would investigate the 2 cities in the north first.
It is probably worth the money to know how many units they have up there, alternatively NP could
have some knowledge based on the observations on his turns.
I have a mobile force in Salamanca and some MDIs in Weiz to get them south more quickly if they are not needed.
Absorbing the initial attack without tripping the MPP might be best.

5) There are a number of units left, already in boarder-cities, for upgrading.
In C&C this is painfully expensive and Steve needs to select which one he needs most.
On the positive side, Hussars are only 80 shields, not the painful 100 of the Sipahi,
which means 30 gold for each knight only.

Good luck Steve
Belisar


Btw, I hope everyone has copied my PediaIcons.txt into his Conquest/text/ directory or the game
will crash with the first Hussar.

I have the game, but will wait until tomorrow in the hope that the patch appears. I'd love to stick a functional forbidden palace somewhere in Persia.

EDIT: Got it, that is, when the save appears. I have a habit of saying "got it" once the previous player's turns appear, and often don't bother to download the save until I'm ready to play...

This variant was clearly designed
to be at war all the time and now we are ~8 turns (from 910AD on) just preparing and not really fighting.


Yeah, but we've done that before ... :D

We don't have to declare until we have gotten rid of the Iroquois, however, we can declare early. If we have enough money, just declare, buy Russia in and then go on the offensive. Hopefully, the Persians will then hit Russians as well and trip the MPP with France.

I had Eisenstadt and Villach work on aqueducts simply to get some important infrastructure built in them during our GA. Since they aren't very productive towns, I wasn't inclined to gamble that they could build marketplaces and then aqueducts as well before stalling at size six.

As regards the garrisons of the two isolated Persian cities in the north, all I can say is that after the last Iroquois city on our continent fell, I saw a lot of Persian knights move back to their homeland, and not to the two cites--which is suggestive, but hardly conclusive.

OK, upload seems to work again

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLD04-930AD.zip)

and a picture, the red circles are salpeter, the blue iron
all are near our boarders
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/meld4-6.gif

To patch or not to patch... that is the question...

Looking at the current save, I see no pressing need to get a Forbidden Palace going just yet. I would rather place it somewhere in Persia than on the former Iroquois lands to the North, and it is not realistic for me to expect to take a big enough bite out of Persia to consider building it. The gold-per-turn bug continues to be a big pain in the butt, but we've coped OK with it up to now, and I see no point in holding up the game in the hope that the patch may materialize today.

I noticed that Belisar didn't complete his turns. I may play up to 1050AD to even out the numbers, although I may hand off early if I get to a critical stage, so that Meldor can make the appropriate decisions.

(0) Inherited Turn.
OK, there's been enough poncing around with the Iroquois, so my initial aim is to get rid of their last city before it gets a chance to spit out another settler.
I start by vetoing the musketman in Eisenstadt, and the marketplace in Villach. Both are switched to caravals, which are rushed.
There are two workers irrigating the plains near Vienna. We have no need for extra food at Vienna, so I move those workers to the mountains to the North After all Vienna is making 26 shields per turn, and needs to get to 27 in order to train Hussars every three turns.
Linz is exquisitely optimized for Hussar production (27 uncorrupted shields/turn, no excess food). Wiener Neustadt, our third size 12 city, needs a courthouse to get to the required 27 uncorrupted shields/turn, so I queue a courthouse after the bank completes so that I won't forget later.
I missed Saltzburg. Also size 12, but not enough shields to effectively build Hussars, even with it's courthouse. It may be good for a musket or two.
Optimize for food, and place a number of taxmen in former Iroquois cities, to boost our income a little.

IBT:
Salzburg - Marketplace => Worker
Villach - Caravel => Temple
Eisenstadt - Caravel => Courthouse
Neusiedl - Aquaduct => Marketplace

(1) 940AD
I continue the fortress building project on our Northern border with Persia. In the meantime, I start moving medieval infantry and longbows (upgraded archers) towards our new caravals.

IBT:
Bischofshofen - Cannon => Cannon
Linz - Knight => Knight
Salzburg - Worker => Bank
Wiener Neustadt - Bank => Courthouse
Krems - Worker => Worker

(2) 950AD
Some selective upgrades of archers to longbows, to assist in "Operation No Iroquois". I will be keeping all knights on our continent for the upcoming Persia campaign.
A redlined Iroquois galley is sitting next to our elite 3/5 galley. Needless to say, that Iroquois galley is now resting quietly on the sea-bed. Our galley refortifies.
There's a second Iroquois galley heading down our Western shore. I'm sure there's troops on this one, so I pick up a pikeman from Wiener Neustadt and send him to Eisenstadt, where he will be in position to defend next turn if troops are landed.
The loss of military police at Wiener Neustadt forces me to hire a taxman there.
I upgrade the spearman in Eisenstadt so that he can be fortified next turn.

IBT:
The Iroquois land a single MDI next to Eisenstadt.
Vienna - Knight => Knight
Innsbruck - Courthouse => Musketman

(3) 960AD
Eisenstadt has two defenders, and is safe.

IBT:
Catherine gets in a tizzy over our piddly little curragh in her territory. I offer to move it.
The Iroquois MDI attacks Eisenstadt, and loses horribly.
Gayagaahe decides to riot. Damn Iroquois peaceniks. It'll starve next turn.
Ugarit - Musketman => Musketman
Oka - Cannon => Cannon
Krems - Worker => Worker

(4) 970AD
There's a minor trading opportunity with France for some optional techs, so I take the opportunity and send Incense and Chemistry their way, in exchange for Economics and Printing Press. Amazingly, the Vikings do not have contact with Persia or the Iroquois.

IBT:
Kufstein - Musketman => Musketman
Linz - Knight => Knight

(5) 980AD
Troop movements. I have a number of MDI and longbows heading to Eisenstadt to board ships.

IBT:
Vienna - Knight => Knight
Wiener Neustadt - Courthouse => Knight
Krems - Worker => Worker

(6) 990AD
I send two caravals filled with troops out towards the last Iroquois city.

IBT:
Klagenfurt - Bank => Knight
Innsbruck - Musketman => Musketman

(7) 1000AD
Switch Wiener Neustadt to a temple to help with the happiness situation there.

IBT:
Ugarit - Musketman => Musketman
Linz - Knight => Knight
Krems - Worker => Worker

(8) 1010AD
Sink the Iroquois galley that brought the MDI 5 turns ago, and get an elite caravel.

IBT:
Our golden age ends. Income drops from 350/turn to 192/turn.
Vienna - Knight => Musketman
Wiener Neustadt - Temple => ??
Gewauga riots. Entertainer hired.

(9) 1020AD
Land three MDI, two longbows and a musket next to Goigouen. I hope that's enough troops.

IBT:
Krems - Worker => Worker
Landeck - Marketplace => Knight
Neusiedl - Marketplace => Courthouse

(10) 1030AD
The battle for Goigouen.
Veteran longbow loses against regular spearman without taking damage :(
Veteran longbow beats regular spearman losing two hipoints and promotes to elite.
Veteran MDI loses against regular spearman without taking damage :(
Veteran MDI beats regular spearman losing two hipoints.
Regular MDI beats regular archer losing one hitpoint and promotes to veteran.
Goigouen is captured and...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1030AD.jpg

Mine the second mountain next to Vienna and switch to max shields. The build is also switched to knights.

I'm going to pass the game onto Meldor at this point as he has to declare war on Persia before the interturn. There are lots of units fortified in various places that can be used to attack Persia this turn. There are settlers in Bruck and Oka. I did not do many upgrades, or trade for Military Tradition, so there is a ton of money available for the war effort.
Might be worth checking if Russia and Persia still have that MPP going.

Time to declare on Persia (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1030AD.zip)

DIE PERSIA DIE :whipped: :hammer:

Sure, fine, quit two turns earlier than you said and make me take the initial punishment...:whipped: :thanx:

I will turn it into :hammer:

Just remember what I learned the hard way: Immortals are still effective versus Knights.

@Meldor - you'll probably do better than I would anyway. I was getting far too many interruptions while I was playing... :D

You think you are the only one with interruptions? Besides the nice ones, I am getting ready to move...

Meldor will just do fine, after all, he has to get his part of the fun :D

I'm offline until 25th evening or maybe 26th, so have a nice X-mas team

1030 AD (0)
I open up the game and can not find the promised Hussars anywhere! What, we don't have MilTrad? OK, I do an immediate steal (who care if they declare) from Russia and succede! I grab the tech we want and start upgrading knights only to have the game crash...hmm, I thought I had replaced the Pediaicons.txt. I do it again and repeat the above steps...crash again. Error message says that the following is missing: ANIMNAME_PRTO_Hussa. Open the file and add the following lines to the "Unit animations" section.

#ANIMNAME_PRTO_Hussar
Hussar

Rinse and repeat...This time I get...success. Ok, back to game. Upgrade all knights that I can and should to Hussars. Upgrade all outdated bombard units to cannon. Rush Rax in Salamanca. Swap to muskets and rush them up north.

Dial up X-man and let him know the fecal matter has impacted the proverbial air circulation device. Dial up Cathy and she won't budge on taking our side vs Xeres so I declare on her. I then Dial up Joanie and get trade her Military Tradition for Navigation, WM and alliance vs. Russia. That should keep Cathy busy. Ivory and 5gpt gets the Arabs in on our side against Persia. Should should keep them out of our hair. While we are at it I send them inscense for 20gpt. Dial up the Vikes and get them in against Russia for Saltpeter. It shouldn't matter which of those two win. I send the horses, and two lux for their lux. Might as well make it painful for them to back out and give them enough to fight with.

Since I don't have enough troops to cover everything up north and I am not in position to go on the offensive in the south, I will sit back and see where the Persians want to play.
(I) Persia declares on the Vikes. Knights come out of everywhere. We get hit by eight knights at Salamnca. I did see a GL retreat to Grand River after they knocked off one of our knights. They must want the Pyrimids bad. Another 10 Knights appera out of the south headed that way. Only one knight attack in the south at Neusiedl and it retreats redlined. I see lots of units moving north. Salmanca Rax->Musket. Niagra Falls Musket->Rax. Feldkirk Musket->Rax. Wiez Musket->Rax. Gmuend Musket->Rax.

1040 AD (1)
I kill off the 1 hp knight in the south. Find Dariush Kabir protected by only spears and move some troops in to capture it or at least attract attention away form the north. Our cannon move out with cover and pound the first stack of 6 knights coming out of the heart of Persia. Our knight army wakes and then takes out 3 of them. Hussars take out the other 3. We lose one AC and leave one knight standing, but we take out all but one Persian knight around Salamanca. Instead of attacking with the three knights we have left, I upgrade them. Hussars kill the 3 knights in the second stack coming north and an MDI makes the 10 and last one retreat. Not a bad start, we have lost 1 AC and two knights so far, they have lost 16 knights and one worker.
(I) My, we lose the one exposed AC at Salamanca but it gets their knight off the hill. We also lose the exposed MDI. They lose 4 knights trying to take our fort with a pike and two Hussars in it (I had moved the musket to cover cannon). We get two elite Hussars out of it. The distraction in the south works as at least 8 units (mostly slow ones) are seen headed for Darish Kabir. There are 6 knights, an immortal, a musket and a longbow in the gap. Bischofshofen Cannon->Rax. Innsbruck Musket->Musket. Krems wroker->worker.

1050 AD (2)
It looks as if X-man was forced to spend some cash upgrading the spears at Dariush Kabir. We take the city without loss but lose our first Hussar while killing off a knight , 2muskets and 2 immortals in the area. I then move the cannon into the fortress and move support units in there. The army takes out 2 knights and a musket. Hussars that aren't healing take out a knight, immortal and longbow leaving 2 1 hp knights that could retreat. I attack with a musket and pike winning both. We take the last knight out up north and then I try to take out Grand River to get the GL. Havign only two units to get to it. The first wins but the second loses leave Grand Rivers with a 1 hp musket on top. The only thing to attack up there with are two 1 hp AC. I decline. I rush 3 Hussars in the south, but I need troops up north.
(I) Hmmm. The Arabs declare on the Vikes. We lose the exposed pike but he takes a knight with him. The musket is also killed. One immortal and 3 Knights are the only units showing in the gap, can they be gassed so soon, or are all the units now headed south? The Russians land one MDI near Ganogeh. Vienna, Linz, and Klagenfurt Hussar->Hussar, Salzburg Bank->Hussar. Wiener Musket->Musket.

1060 AD (3)
Ganogeh is guarded by an elite MDI, I wake him and he takes out the Russian MDI. We kill off all of the units in the gap. Three AC (one loss, 2 retreat) fail to take out the musket at Grand River. A hussar takes out the freash spear. It again has a 1 hp musket on top and the only unit that can atttack is a 1 hp Hussar. Lots of movement and worker stuff down south. Get a musket into Dariush Kabir. The units there will be healed and are joined by 3 new Hussars. Ok, I can't stand the idea of that GL getting away. I atttack with the 1 hp Hussar and Grand Rivers is ours! We sink a caravel in port! I hope the GL was on it.
(I) The Russians land a night on the island in the south. The Persians move a musket in the south to pillage and I only see 1 knight and 1 immortal move up north. Salamanca Musket->Musket. Krems worker->Worker.

1070 AD (4)
I get a couple of MDI into Grand River and move the injured units to Salamanca to heal. The only unit I can get to in the gap is a reg Knight who get pounded with cannon and offed by an elite Hussar. The knight army move north to help capture the rest of those cities. Just to probethe defenses a Hussar takes out the top reg Musket at Tonawanda and reveals another reg musket under it. Hopefully, Xeres will now rush anoterh musket there for us to take out. We take out a musket trying to pillage our extra saltpeter but it cost a Hussar. Sink a Caravel that was trying to run the blockaid at Zohak. We then move a SoD of 9 Hussars outside of Hattusas in the south. They are in a forest across the river so counters shouldn't be bad. We will of course move across the river before attacking next turn. Wake up elite MDI on the island and make the knight retreat. I then wake up an elite longbow to take him out and get a GL! I then have to releive the blockaid of Zohak to send a couple of caravels over to pick him up. I spy that the Russians now have rail.
(I) A Persian Longbow takes out an exposed Hussar, I guess I deserved that one. Ugarit Musket->Hussar, Oka Cannon->Musket.

1080 AD (5)
Knight army takes out longbow and one reg Musket. It can attack again but is down to 4HP. I bring up an elite Hussar who takes out the second musket, exposing yet a third. Move some Hussars up from the south. We lose one Hussar but kill 3 Muskets and raze the city of Hattusas, it was size 12. We pick up 8 workers. Start a settler in that direction to take its spot. It looks like the Russians are taking out the Vikes. I dial up the Arabs and have them backstab the Russians for 360g. Now everyone over there is fighting everyone else. That should slow the tech pace down.
(I) A cossack come out of nowhere and kills our GL producing Longbow! Persia does nothing. Krems worker->worker. Gonageh Spear->Temple.

1090 AD (6)
A Hussar attack Tonawanda and takes out the last musket, we now own the Great Lighthouse. Did I mention I went ahead and made an army out of the GL? Well I did and now we get another while clearing out a stray Persian knight in the south. Pick the army off the island so it doesn't get killed. One MDI retreats the Cossack, the other takes him out. Take out 2 rifles and a Cossack and the city of Bryansk is ours without loss. We capture 443 gold with it meaning the Russian are swimming in money. Funny thing is that there are two French swords next to the city, what did Joan think she was going to do with them? The northern area is now completely secure. We own all the cities.
(I) All Persia has left is immortals. One makes our GL producing Hussar retreat, another gives us an elite musket. Three more appear in the gap.

1100 AD (7)
We piund the immortals and then use two elite horse and 1 elite Hussar to take them out. In the south we create another army and then attack and liberate the town of Ghulaman losing one Hussar to do so. An AC takes out the offending immortal in the south.
(I) The Persians have a Cav! They move it and a knight into the gap. Linz Hussar->Hussar, Innsbruck Musket->Hussar, Wiener Hussar->Musket, Krems worker->worker.

1110 AD (8)
Kill off the Cav and immortal up north. The knight is too far out of range to take. MDI dies trying to take out the second Cossack on the island. The units are healing and things have slowed way down. I do take out one musket in the south trying to pillage.
(I) The Knight in the north moves too far for its safety. A musket appears in the north to pillage. Salzburg and Klagenfurt Hussar->Hussar, Villach Temple->Market, Gewanuga Spear->harbor, Goigouen Muslet->Hussar.

1120 AD (9)
The replacement city of Baden is built. We steal Physics. We are next to last in tech.
(I) Russai and Scandanavia make peace, the back stabbers. We lose an AC to a counter and a pike I had sent to pillage. Krems worker->settler, Lnadeck Hussar->Hussar.

1130 AD (10)
Units advance on Samaria in the south. I clean up the musket and Cav in the north. We have a Hussar Army and one empty army. You have enough healed units in the north to maybe even think about going on the offensive up there. Save up enough money to steal tech. We need to get to steam at least. This is very important at this point.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1130AD.zip

Official hitlist:
Hittite - gone.
Iroquois - gone.
Persia - Gassed and going fast.
France - Next!
Russia
Arabs
Scandinavia

Arizona_Steve
Meldor
Northern Pike (Up)
Belisar (On deck)
ChrTh (Let us know if Santa was good to you! Maybe NP might let you get in before him...)
Coffee (Are you ready?)

@meldor: keep me after Belisar; it's going to take a couple days for me to catch up :)

Also, since you had an issue, can you repost what the procedure is for playing as Austria? What do I need to change? I don't want to screw it up...

(Of course all of this is moot if :santa: fails me :cry: ... not that I won't go buy it on Friday if he does :D )

Originally posted by ChrTh
@meldor: keep me after Belisar; it's going to take a couple days for me to catch up :)

Also, since you had an issue, can you repost what the procedure is for playing as Austria? What do I need to change? I don't want to screw it up...

(Of course all of this is moot if :santa: fails me :cry: ... not that I won't go buy it on Friday if he does :D )

In your Conquests directory you will find a Text folder.
Inside that directory you will find Pediaicons.txt.
Rename it Pediaicons.old.
Download the Pediaicons.txt below
Put it in the Text Folder

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/PediaIcons.txt

:santa: came through! [dance] [party] :beer: [dance]

It's :hammer: time!

Should I patch?

I think we should, I think that it won't impact this game as much but it should be better from here on out. It will mean an FP in the Persian capital!

Got it. Great start against Persia, Meldor. :goodjob:

No thanks Meldor. I'll have to play this one from the sidelines. I'm wiening myself off Civ you might say. Good luck. You should consider patching and completing in AW mode. That would be a challenge on Demi-God.

:goodjob: Meldor and Steve, we are on our way.

Sorry if there is a line missing in the Pedia file, I had more than one version and might have uploaded an uncomplete one.

Not a problem Belisar, it wasn't that hard to fix, once I realized that I did have the updated file. It wasn't a show stopper. Now if we had been playing a generated map and it crashed and we could go on....that would have been bad. This, nothing.

NP, you will be light on trops as I finished the infrastructure push since Persia seemed a lamb instead of the Lion we expected.

[EDIT] You may want to Rush the Hussar on the island to counter the Cossack.

Just to keep everyone informed, I just won my first Conquests game :D ... yeah, it was a diplomatic win, but I didn't feel like spending the time to research space ship or conquer the world ...
I'm going to load the save tonight just to make sure my pediaicons.txt work.

EDIT: Save works :)

Glad to have you on board again ChrTh :)

I will be out of pocket for the next week and a half. I don't know if it will get around to me by then but just in case skip me until you hear from me again. I should be back no later than the 5th or 6th.

Technical: I apply Meldor's fix for the Hussar problem, and the 1.12 patch.


1130 (0): I cover two exposed Hussars with musketmen, and get some reinforcements (a musketman and a longbowman) headed towards Goigouen.

IT: The Persians have enough cavalry for four counterattacks. We lose a musketman and the Hussar it was covering; they lose two cav, one to our pikeman outside Bischofshofen.

The Russians move an elite Cossack next to Goigouen, and land a mixed force of four units next to Dariush Kabir.

Neusiedl completes its courthouse.


1140 (1): We destroy the Russian force outside Dariush Kabir (one rifleman, one Cossack, two longbowmen) without loss. I have to pull units away from the Samaria front to do this, but I don't much regret it; as a size-eight city on a hill, Samaria is not an appealing next objective.

Our third attack on the Russian stack produces the Great Leader Wurmser. Our cities in the Oka-Bischofshofen area aren't corrupt enough, and also aren't good enough, to justify placing the Forbidden Palace there; so I employ Wurmser to rush the Pentagon in Neusiedl.

We bombard and destroy two Persian cav on the Istakhr front, without loss.

IT: A Persian cav commits suicide against Kufstein (a walled hill town).

The elite Cossack redlines against Goigouen, but defeats our defending musketman.

Baden and Goigouen get rushed walls.

Neusiedl PENTAGON --> cannon, Gandasetaigon temple --> harbour, Bischofshofen barracks --> courthouse.


1150 (2): Mack's Army disconnects the Persian saltpetre near Istakhr.

We concentrate units in Bischofshofen for the assault on Bactra.

IT: Another Persian cav commits suicide against the walls of Kufstein.


1160 (3): We take Bactra from its garrison of two musketmen, losing one Hussar, and the Persians are down to one source of iron.

IT: One Persian cav attacks our barricade south of Bruck, and retreats.

We see the Arabs land cavalry next to Ergili, so it's a good thing we're in position to take it next turn. A moment later the Persians declare war on the French, repeat the French.


1170 (4): We pick off the redlined Persian cav next to our barricade.

We take Ergili from its garrison of two musketmen and two cannon, without loss, and the Persians have no hooked-up saltpetre.

IT: Another Persian cav dies attacking Kufstein.


1180 (5): We destroy the elite Cossack which has been tormenting us on Goigouen Island, with a longbowman.

We bombard Istakhr with eight cannon, getting six hits against the garrison and two misses, so this aspect of the game has certainly changed (as Coffee, I believe, has already pointed out). This redlines the garrison of three musketmen, and we take the town without loss, razing it for a total haul of seven workers (counting captures).

We abandon Bactra, after holding it briefly as a tactical convenience.

IT: Persian cav attacks destroy two of our musketmen used to cover Hussars after last turn's advances.


1190 (6): A five-cannon bombardment of Tyre produces two hits against the garrison and three misses. We then raze the town (held by three musketmen) without loss, with the Army of Vienna making all three attacks.

We found Moedling adjacent to the ruins of Bactra.

We destroy two Persian cav around Ergili, without loss.

IT: Two more Persian cav counterattack us, one dying and one retreating.

Kufstein aqueduct --> courthouse.


1200 (7): We found Melk on the ruins of Istakhr.

We pick off an Immortal outside Tyendenaga, and another near Moedling.

We destroy the Persian cav which retreated from Moedling last turn with an elite Hussar, and generate the Great Leader Quasdanovich.

We found Steyr on the ruins of Tyre.

I'll stop here, in part to allow discussion of the location of our Forbidden Palace and of our tech options, in part because I'm out of time anyway.

Austrians 29, enemies 6 this round.

Nine elite victories produced two Great Leaders.

Quasdanovich is waiting in Oka. I think we should use him to rush the Forbidden Palace in Moedling next turn. Moedling isn't as far forward in the former Persian lands as would be ideal, but it's more than good enough, and the time has come to get the FP built.

We have 2062 gold accumulated with which to improve our tech position. Right now we could attempt to steal Magnetism safely from the French for 1635 gold, or just buy it from them for 1534 gold. I think the latter course is far better, although I haven't made the purchase yet in case anyone objects violently to our enriching our next opponent.

In the north, we're set up to take Sardis next. The idea is that after the workers in our stack next to Melk build a road, our cannon in Melk will be able to move adjacent to Sardis, all in one turn. However, you may decide that we don't have enough defensive units in the area (basically three, the army and two musketmen) to cover the cannon, the workers, and Melk, in which case we'll have to proceed more slowly.

In the south, our next objective is Tyendenaga, which has Persia's last iron. Note that we can get cannon onto the hill adjacent to Tyendenaga next turn, via the mountain road.

We have a caravel approaching Goigouen, with a reinforcement of one Hussar.

The food shortage in Wiener Neustadt is intentional, to get the town to 20 spt. Just keep an eye on the situation.

I don't know whether the Military Academy in Vienna is a prebuild or not. Perhaps whoever started it could clarify matters. ;)

To repeat, we're now playing the PATCHED version of Conquests.

The save:

1200 AD, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1200AD.zip)

The Persian sandwich:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1200AD.JPG

Looking good NP, I see we are next to finishing the resource-denial plan
Will patch and use our nice Hussars :D

:eek: I'm on deck!

Sorry for the delay, I was without comp. and IT acces in the last 48 hours, playing today

It was looking goog, but now....

Preturn: I guess Steve started the MA in Vienna to build additional armies when we have factories
and rails, but it seems we get enough leaders.
I realize that our current leader is in the south and we want the FP in our northern lands,
so I will form an additional army next turn.
I delay the prebuild in Vienna, we have now 17 turns. somewhat risky.
Russia would talk but our MAs prevent the possible peace treaty, on the other side all
Russia and the Arabs are already in Facism, good, this will slow the pace at least a bit.
Change 2 cities in the north to settlers

IT: Hmm, Russia and the Arabs sign peace, that leaves 2 turns with the French-alliance before
we can make peace.
The French land a stack near Sidon in the north, Persia attacks it with one Cav and kills a pike.

1210: Thanks to our extremly powerfull 18 HP-Hussar army (I love the names of these guys :lol: )
we take Tyendenaga without casualties, get a cannon and that was it for them,
we have stripped Persia from salpeter AND iron :D
In the north, we take Sardis just in time, I guess the next turn the French would have got it.

IT: The French cavs attack Persepolis, 1 dies, 1 retreats, the MDIs follow behind.
A Russian Frigatte sinks by attacking on of our Caravels.
The Russians land a Cossack at the island, near Goigouen.

1220: Antioch is defended by 4 muskets and a longbow but 2 of the southern armies take the city.
Bombard 2 Persian units Mödling and kill them.
Kill the Cossack on the island with NP's reinforcement Hussar

IT: The French MDIs approach Persepolis.
A Russian Frigatte bombards Villach.

1230: MA agaisnt Russia ends so I make peace and get Magnetism for 1285 gold.
Hmm, according to the diplomatic advisor they lack iron, but they have a connected source
inside their boaders. And the French run around with Cav, but they don't have salpeter
and nobody (except us) has an additional source.
On the bright side, France and Russia (MA with Persia) are still at war.

After I reinforce the northern army with a Hussar I start the attack on Persepolis.
At the cost of one Hussar we take the city and get 2 new cannons but more important
one of our elite victories produces GL Melas, it's FP-time guys :D
I prepare for the attack on Pasargadae andHamadan next turn.

IT: The Arabs want to regenotiate our resource deal (Furs for incense, dyes and horses)
I sell the Physics for Furs instead.
The Persians kill the last French Cav.
The Russians start Shakespeare

1240: I rush the FP in Weiz, seems to be the best spot because we already started with
infrastructure in the north. (It will take time to replace all the Persian cities
and we really cann't wait any longer)
An eventful turn on the military front, half of the Persian empire falls
We take Pasargadae and get 2 new workers and LEO :D ...must...keep...it
The city gets us a 6th lux, Gems as a bonus.
In the north, we take Gordium without casulaties and in the central region Hamadan, and
all without a single casualty, thanks to our 4 armies.
We have enough money to steal ToG, we are finally in the indutrial age.
Nobody has Medicine and the French lack Steam Power.

IT: We complete the FP in Weiz, I check F11 and get this

MfG production: 177 -> 184
GNP income: 560 -> 553

This cann't be, I have a patched game, can someone please load the save and check these numbers
The FP seem to be still broken, this is really frustrating.

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1250AD.zip)

IIRC, the patch does not fix corruption for already existing cities, only new cities that you grab. As our empire expands, it should improve.

BTW, we had a major "Production is down" event last night, and I'm still working it (currently restoring the Operating System)...I hope to be able to get to this game by Sunday, but if whoever follows me wants to swap, they can.

This cann't be, I have a patched game, can someone please load the save and check these numbers Its a bug from what i can see. Try this link. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1471380#post1471380

I heard somewhere that some of the 1.12 fixes don't work until a new game. I am not sure if the FP is one of those.

I hope to be able to get to this game by Sunday, but if whoever follows me wants to swap, they can.

I'm able to play this evening and tomorrow, so I'll take my turns now.

(0) Inherited turn
We have a problem here. The last Persian city is on a one-tile island, and we will have no way of destroying it until we can build Marines. I will therefore declare on the French once the three cities on our landmass are destroyed.
I'd like to see France get Steam Power, so that I can steal it from them before declaring. Since the AI is hopeless at naval landings, I will not be putting a high priority on getting Nationalism.
Among other things, there is a Palace being built in Graz, and a Military Academy being built in Vienna. There is no mention of either of these buildings being a prebuild for anything, so I'm really not too sure what to make of the Palace. Universal Sufferage would be useless to us in Monarchy, and we're nowhere near getting Scientific Method. The Military Academy on the other hand would be useful, but why on earth are there THREE taxmen in Vienna??

So... Switch around the shields in Vienna, bringing the Military Academy build down to 7 turns (from 14). Bleed off some shields from the Palace in Graz by switching to a Colloseum, it is now due in a more manageable 52 turns.

Belisar has left me with lots of units to move.

So I start with a healthy army in Hamadan, and kill two defending muskets in Sidon. Two additional hussars are brought in to finish off the remaining musket and spearman, and we raze Sidon.
Hartberg is founded next to a river by a wandering settler.
I use a musket and a 2/4 hussar to capture us another five slaves.

IBT:
A Persian longbow disposes of a French MDI. And France begins Shakespeare's.

(1) 1255AD
I start by founding Dornbirn and Spital. Both are started on temples. I also want to build a city near the unclaimed iron near Steyr, but there's a volcano next to it. So I move a few tiles North, with the intention of building a second city on the marshland next to the iron.
Persia did us a favor and must've popped a worker from Samaria last turn, taking the city from size 7 to size 6. I send an army in, which kills three muskets, and I decide to keep the city, as it is well placed.
We have a number of hussars in range of Kahnawake. I attack the first musketman there with an elite and get my first Conquests Great Leader, Beaulieu. He goes to Parsagdae and forms an army. Three more hussars attack Kahnawake, defeating two muskets with one retreat. We raze the city and the Persians are expunged from our continent.
With the last remaining Persian city on a one-tile island, I go ahead and declare on the French. I kill two swordsmen and an MDI, clearing the surrendering scumbags from our continent. I noticed that the Vikings are at war with Persia. Hopefully their bezerks will finish them off.
I change many cities to settlers, so that I can get the continent covered with our cities.

IBT:
Scandinavia and Arabia sign a peace treaty. Watch out Xerxes, Viking bezerks are heading your way now!
Persia lands a cavalry next to Goigouen.
Arabia starts Shakespeare's.

(2) 1260AD
I load two veteran and two leader-producing elite hussars into the new army.
Zwettle founded.
Steam Power has come in, so I check the purchase/steal costs. We should have enough cash for a careful steal in four turns.

IBT:
France appears with a devastating attack force - one caraval guarded by five frigates. It it had been the other way round I might have had something to worry about, then I remember this is the AI we're dealing with. Their equivalent of the Normandy landing consists of one musketeer and an MDI :lol:

(3) 1265AD
Kill the French landing party.

IBT:
Three settlers complete, and more are ordered.

(4) 1270AD

IBT:
Arabia begins Universal Suffrage :(
The French actually do a bit better this time, landing two rifles and three MDI.

(5) 1275AD
We nail the two rifles and an MDI with one army. Two elite hussars finish off the remaining two MDI.

(6) 1280AD
Of all the weird things. We disperse a barbarian camp.
Neunkirchen founded.

IBT:
Arabia stops the wines for dyes deal. Since they want three luxuries for their wines, I decide against renewing.
We complete the Military Academy in Vienna. It switches to army production.

(7) 1285AD
Gold is at 2390, so I'm looking for a careful tech steal next turn.

IBT:
Russia starts Universal Suffrage.

(8) 1290AD
With Russia in Fascism and Arabia in Republic, it looks like the best place to steal from would be Arabia. I call in our diplomat and...
We're at war with Arabia. I never have any luck with tech steals.
We need to get some tech fast, so I buy Steam Power from Russia for 4 luxuries, 202 gold and 120 gold/turn. It's ugly, but our workers need something to do.
We have one source of coal, in former Iroquois territory.

IBT:
France starts Shakespeare's.

(9) 1295AD
The marshland is cleared and Imst is founded, claiming another iron source.
Ybbs founded.
Clobber three French cavalry with hussars. A second source of coal is revealed when a hussar moves. It's just outside the borders of Neunkirchen. A settler is immediately moved into place.
We have our first galleon floating around. For some strange reason I'm unable to upgrade our caravals and galleys. Is this intended, or is it a bug in the game?

IBT:
OMG this is pitiful. The Persians manage to land a longbow. The french do a little better with one musketeer. I'm sure I saw two of them land, but there's only one there. No sign of the Arabs yet.

(10) 1300AD
Invading units are quickly dealt with.
Aspang founded, and the second coal source is ours.


Well I left you with three wars going. Persia is a non-entity, but cannot be destroyed until we have amphibious units. France isn't landing more than a couple of units each turn, and Arabia... no sign of them yet.
We are horribly behind in tech, to the point that we may lose the TOE (Electricity has been researched, a lot quicker than I thought it would be). We should have enough shields on the palace to be safe for TOE, unless someone gets a scientific great leader.

Not much land left to fill in now...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1300.jpg

And here is the save... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1300AD.zip)

Steve, I mentioned in my post that I tried to delay the prebuild in Vienna, I just should have clarified myself, sorry.
And the unmoved units: I didn't move a single unit in that turn, I saw that the FP didn't work and wanted someone with an US version to check the game.

I did check the FP, and tried messing around with the Govenor as someone has suggested in the forums. One of the Firaxians did say that the patch is compatible, however, it takes a few turns before ccrruption is recalculated, apparently.

The logical time to recalculate corruption would be when a new city is founded. I did plenty of that on my turn :D

Hey guys, our Production environment is still not up, and I'm on my 22nd hour of working (which was preceded by 5 hours of fitful--i.e. interrupted by calls from work--sleep, and a 20 hour day prior to that) ... in any case, I think it's Tuesday, but maybe it's Wednesday? Anyway, I don't know if I'm going to be able to grab the game any time soon ... you may just want to skip me.

Ooh, the butterflies ...

So with both Meldor and ChrTh asking for a skip that would put NP up, if he can take in before Tuesday.

With the French now as the logical target (I'm all for ignoring that last Persian city, this is a technical problem and we should just go on by staying at war with them) we have to prepare for an invasion the moment we get infantry/art.
Until then ToE and infra is most important.
And don't forget the Hoover prebuild, timing may be critical.

1300 (0): A little MM brings us up to 239 gpt.

As Belisar says, the timing of the Hoover prebuild (in Vienna, necessarily) is going to be tricky. We'd have to be very lucky to steal our way up to Scientific Method in less than thirty turns, since the gold isn't accumulating quickly, so I won't start the prebuild yet.

I start moving our navy, such as it is, towards France. This will be a port-to-port creep with combat carefully avoided, of course.

IT: ____, the Russians land a settler three squares SW of Dornbirn, where there's enough room for them to found a city.


1305 (1): We build railroads.

IT: The French land three riflemen and an MDI next to Neunkirchen.

The Russians found Kazan SW of Dornbirn.

Innsbruck temple --> musketman.


1310 (2): We destroy the French stack of four, without loss.

IT: Here come the Arabs! They land eight cavalry on the mountains next to Imst.


1315 (3): We destroy the Arab stack of eight cav with Hussar armies, without loss.

IT: The Vikings almost do us a great service, attacking Persia's single-tile-island capital with three Berserkers, and (as best I can determine) coming within one hit point on the last Persian musketman of taking it.

Hamadan flips back to the Persians--no great surprise, and we lose only a pikeman.

Ganogeh harbour --> temple.


1320 (4): We re-take Hamadan, without loss, and this time we raze it.

We redline several French ships with cannon.

IT: The Vikings attack Zohak (the Persian capital) with what looks like their last available Berserker, and fail.

Dariush Kabir courthouse --> marketplace.


1325 (5): Railroad construction.

IT: Nothing much.


1330 (6): We make peace with the Arabs, receiving a token payment of 60 gold.

IT: Gewauga harbour --> aqueduct.

The French are building Shakespeare.


1335 (7): We found Spielberg next to the ruins of Hamadan.

IT: The Russians complete Shakespeare.


1340 (8): Our furs deal with the Vikings expires. Our cities seem happy enough without furs, so I don't renew the arrangement.

A situation has arisen in which it's hard to know whether the best play is legitimate, so I'll stop here. Please see below.

The Russians have just become the first civ to discover Medicine. The idea of stealing it from them (we can afford a careful steal), and then trading it to the Arabs for whatever we can get, is obviously appealing. The problem is that we're obliged to send the Russians 120 gpt and four luxuries for another ten turns, so if the steal fails and they declare war on us (which is almost certain, since they're furious), we'll get out of our commitments and save a lot of money--in short, we'll profit whether the steal works or not. So, gentlemen, and Meldor in particular, is a steal of this kind legitimate or exploitative?

I still haven't started the Hoover prebuild in Vienna, but this question should be reassessed as soon as we get our next tech.

The Forbidden Palace still isn't working, and it begins to look unlikely that it ever will.

The AC three squares NE of Dornbirn is sitting on a tile far enough from our towns that the AI civs might try to found a city there.

Linz should get a mine on one of its railroaded tiles next turn, to bring it up to 20 spt.

There's a Persian caravel somewhere off Pasargadae, so be careful with our galleon in that city.

The save:

1340 AD, end of turn (steals and trades aside) (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1340AD.zip)

Recent minor developments:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1340AD.JPG

ChrTh, can you step in now?
It would be ideal if I could finish "epic" RBC3c
If we have absolutely no prebuild options and the $@%!&@ FP isn't working we could aband. the city and use it as a first prebuild, we really need a good timing.

If we have absolutely no prebuild options and the $@%!&@ FP isn't working we could aband. the city
...Or we could patch to 1.13...

Originally posted by Belisar
ChrTh, can you step in now?
It would be ideal if I could finish "epic" RBC3c
If we have absolutely no prebuild options and the $@%!&@ FP isn't working we could aband. the city and use it as a first prebuild, we really need a good timing.

Barring any crises at work tomorrow, I'll be able to go tomorrow night (East Coast US Time)

Just to clarify, our prebuild options are the palace (presently being built in Graz) and then an army (necessarily in Vienna, where we have the Military Academy, but not under construction at the moment).

Due to the bad weather up here I won't have my household goods until the 8th and it might delay getting home access up. As of right now I am still not able to play (the cd is on the truck, somewhere). I will keep you informed.

Looks like you guys are doing well without me...time to get back at the French. As for the last Persian city, just stay at war with them and then pound them as soon as we can. Maybe the Vikes will build some more Zerks to take care of them.

Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you know that I 'got' it. I'll be reviewing everything tonight and be finishing up in the AM. We're at 10 turns still, right?

Turn 0 -- 1340 AD

Since no one advised otherwise, I attempted to steal Medicine from Cathy. We failed, she's pissed and declares war.

I auto-raze Kazan and get 685 gold?!?!? Wow ...

I send an Elite Hussar out from Golgouen to take a stab at Krasnoyark ...

and get a Great Leader, Schwarzenegger! Er, I mean Schwarzenburg! I rush him back to Golgouen...what the devil do I do with him?

Ok, guys, I'm not going to continue yet until I get some feedback. Here are the options:

1) Get the Vikings in the war against Russia for Saltpetre. Pro: Russia we'll ignore us until we make peace (except maybe in Golgouen). Con: Russia might be strong enough to finish them off, thus making it tougher when we have to seriously face the Russians.

2) Get the Arabs in the war against Russia for Dyes. Pro: Russia will be more or less smashed. Con: We'll be making the Arabs stronger.

3) Fight a phony war versus the Russians and make peace asap.

Also, seriously, what do I do with Schwarzenburg? Rush a Hussar? Rush a Galleon? I seriously don't want to keep him around too long as it'll make it harder for us to get another.

Finally, do I take a stab at the island of Tver'?

I'll wait roughly five-six hours for a response...

Rush a Hussar? Rush a Galleon?
Military leaders can't rush military! Either make an army, or a needed building.

The problem is, the leader is in a city on an island several turns away from the mainland. Do I build a Temple (what we're currently building)? An army wouldn't make much sense, as we'd have precious little to put into it...

It looks as though we should just use the GL to form an empty army in Goigouen. If eventually we can get the army to our mainland and fill it up, well and good; if not, at least we'll have restored our ability to generate further Great Leaders.

Speaking generally, the "conquering A will make B stronger" argument has never concerned me much, except early in the game, because I don't find that the AI exploits recently acquired territory very effectively. Getting the Vikings into our war against Russia thus looks like a good idea to me. I'm not as sure about involving the Arabs, but only because the dyes might help them too much.

I'd leave Tver alone unless you assess the risk of losing ground units on the sea voyage as almost zero.

One way to rush a unit with a leader (at least up to 100 shields) is to form an empty army and disband it in the desired city. Since an army costs 400 shields to build with the military acadamy, disbanding it gives 100 shields which can be transferred to a unit build.

Edit: Maybe for a more expensive unit you could rush a palace with the leader and switch? (ie for battleships or ICBMs)

I'm really sorry but I have to ask for at least one skip, I'm burried in work and there is no way I can play civ in the next one or two weeks.:(

I am back online with a good connection. I will be able to take my next turn in line...lets get those French...and Russians

Official hitlist:
Hittite - gone.
Iroquois - gone.
Persia - hanging on by a thumbnail.
France - In the fire
Russia
Arabs
Scandinavia

Arizona_Steve (On Deck)
Meldor
Northern Pike
Belisar (Skipped)
ChrTh (working on it)

Hey guys,

Just an update, I should have the turns completed within 12 hours. I may not take the full 10 if I find that it won't let me get the game back in a timely manner, but I'll try. Not sure how much of a headway I'm going to get against France...

Turn 0 -- 1340 AD Continued

I get the Danes involved against Kievan Rus for Saltpetre

I decide to turn Schwarzenegger into an Army and disband him to build a Hussar to replace the Elite that is likely about to die (it redlined getting us Schwarzenegger)...in the end, seems like a waste of time, huh?

The builds look ok. I'll leave the Palace alone, and I won't start the Army yet in Vienna (it only gets us 20 turns for prebuild)

IT:
The redlined Hussar lives!

Turn 1 -- 1345 AD
Work exclusively on gathering troops towards Grand River and completing the railnet.

IT:
A Cossack approaches Golgouen

Turn 2 -- 1350 AD
Our Hussar loses to the Cossack :wallbash: ... a Longbowman finishes off the job.

Troops still assembling ...

The Arabians have Infantry! BTW, it appears our Trade Reputation has been destroyed...

IT:
Nada

Turn 3 -- 1355 AD
My naval luck, in place since I started playing Civ I, once again shows up when a galley dispatches a caravel. :rolleyes:

The first galleon of our noble France-Crushing force is in the water and is on its way!

IT:
A russian Frigate sinks assaulting one of our Frigates!

Turn 4 -- 1360 AD
Some more ships are ready to go...
The thinnet is complete.

Turn 5 -- 1365 AD
Worker movements, mostly.

Ok, I'm going to have to pass it on here (wife is sick). Not much happened. I was thinking of starting the landing, but I feel our invasion force was probably too small to start. I'll have to leave it to Steve in order to get the invasion going.

Joan, the face that launched a thousand ships!

The save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR4_1365AD.SAV

Miscellaneous points:

1. The palace prebuild will complete in Graz in nineteen turns, and we're still three techs away from ToE. Perhaps the time has come to MM Graz for lower shield production.

2. Our attempts to steal techs have been failing miserably, and now our only player with a history of success at tech thefts has asked for a couple of skips. ;) Possibly we should just buy the next two techs from the Arabs for cash, unpleasant though it would be to enrich them. The hoard of 2518 gold we've got right now gets us to "doubt" with the Arabs.

3. We can get to 400 gpt by hiring taxmen in our totally corrupt cities from Spielberg on north until towns stuck at size six or size twelve have no surplus food, and towns not stuck have two surplus food. This total should increase quickly, too, as we develop our corrupt cities towards the ideal condition (not possible in all cases, of course) in which half their citizens are working railed, irrigated grassland tiles and half are collecting taxes.

4. Moedling, which is definitely redeemable as a productive city, and Steyr, which might be, should switch from temples to courthouses.

OK, I got it...

(0) Inherited Turn:
I check out Military Advisor and note that we have five galleons, two frigates and three caravals. That should get a substantial force over to France, so my first priority is to get them in position to ferry troops across. There's already a good number of ships in Grand River, but why is there a fully loaded galleon sitting duck in French territory to the East?
I go through our cities, adding taxmen to corrupt size six plus cities.
Science-wise, the Arabs are running away with the game, and are the only ones that we could steal tech from. They will not sell us either Medicine or Electricity. I could :hammer: it out of Russia, but with their envoy refusing to see us, I can't tell what techs they have. We have 2518 gold in the treasury, but it costs over 2,700 to carefully steal a tech from the Arabs. I will wait a turn.

IBT:
A Persian caraval attacks our "sitting duck" Galleon, and is sunk, while redlining our ship.
Viallach gains a marketplace, and I switch it's tiles to maximum growth. I'll switch it to Galleon, although everything will take forever to build there.
Arabia starts Theory of Evolution.

(1) 1370AD
Kitzbuehel founded.
ChrTh has done a great job of organizing the wokers into railroading groups, and I can get nearly all the area around Vienna railroaded this turn.
We have 2,900 gold in the bank, so I try a careful tech steal from Arabia. And we succeed! We now have the secrets of Electricity. Two more techs and I can switch to TOE. These guys also have Replacable Parts. Russia will also talk, and are also up to Replacable Parts. They are willing to accept peace, but we have an ongoing alliance with the Viking for another 14 turns.

IBT:
Persia and Scadinavia sign a peace treaty. A Persian galley passes our galleon, but doesn't attack.

(2) 1375AD
A positioning turn. Three more galleons will arrive at Grand River in the next couple of turns, and then the attack on France can begin in earnest.

IBT:
France begins Universal Suffrage. Don't they realize they're meant to be at war?
Persia comes grovelling for peace.
And Persia briefly gets a second city as Samaria decides that they want to be Persian. Bunch-o-losers. Glad I didn't sign the peace treaty.

(3) 1380AD
I Activate one of our armies and take back Samaria from the stinking Persians.
Another three galleons are loaded with troops. We have eight ships loaded now, hopefully this will be enough to get a beachead.

IBT:
Nothing.

(4) 1385AD
Our frigate can't even sink a Persian galley.
Sail across the channel and unload a bunch of troops next to Grenoble. Four additional musketmen are following to secure the city.

IBT:
Russia completes Universal Suffrage. TOE may be a problem.
The French have a LOT of troops, and we lose two muskets. I count at least 40 troops, arranged in three SODs.

(5) 1390AD
Even if I can take Grenoble there is no way I can guard against the counterattacks. So I load the troops back onto the ships and wait for reinforcements. I switch the five coastal cities nearest to Grand River to galleon, and rush 'em. There's already a bunch of troops present that I can load into them.

IBT:
France lands a bunch of troops next to Goiguoen. I doubt if the city will hold, but hopefully we'll take out a few of their troops and leave the remainder stranded (the AI is very bad about picking up it's troops).
Arabia demands dyes. I cave, as I'd rather keep them off my back with so many shiploads of troops floating around.

(6) 1395AD
Load lotsa troops onto boats, ready for a second attempt.
The French have two cavalry, one knight, four MDI and one musketeer next to Goiguoen. We have a 2/5 elite hussar and two musketmen inside the walled city.

IBT:
We take down a cavalry and three MDI before the Goiguoen is captured.
One of our supplies of coal is exausted, but a new one appears next to Eisenstadt.

(7) 1400AD
More movement of troops and ships. We're back at 2,900 gold again so it's time for another tech steal from Arabia. And again I succeed, and we have Medicine.

IBT:
Nada.

(8) 1405AD
More movement.

IBT:
Riots break out everywhere. Ugh. I realize that we lost a luxury at Goiguen. Too many cities to check. I catch a lot of them via scroll-forward.

(9) 1410AD
Umm no. We didn't lose a luxury at Goiguoen. Did a deal end or something?
I give Medicine to Ragnor in exchange for furs.
13 shiploads of troops move next to Grenoble. And would you believe there's a worker on the hill where I wanted to offload our troops? I stumble on a bug where I attempted to capture the French worker with a hussar. Of course he couldn't move, but I then hit fortify (to fortify him on the ship), and to my surprise, he galloped out of the ship and captured the worker! Another 44 troops (plus a settler) are offloaded onto the same hill.

IBT:
All hell breaks lose. What must be the entire French army attacks our landing party. In the midst of it all, the Great Leader Frederick appears. I watch for what seems like forever as Frenchman after Frenchman attacks our stack. At the end of it all, our Great Leader survives.

(10) 1415AD
We do have a bunch of cannon, but if I fire them on Grenoble, it will leave them exposed to capture. I count six uninjured hussars. After a few attempts to take the city I give up and move the remaining troops back to the boats.

It looks like we need to get infantry before we can establish a beachead. I've got us moving in that direction with successful steals of Electricity and Medicine. If we can get Scientific Method before TOE is built we have a good chance of getting it.

Still no French beachead... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1415AD.zip)

EDIT: Taking a second look at the "bug", it looks like amphibious attacks on workers are possible. I'm not sure if this is intended though.

Got it...

Got it...

I should've mentioned that Galleon. He was positioned to land some troops, and then when I realized I didn't have enough troops in position to land, I brought the other ships back, but I didn't start to move the Galleon before I passed the game on. I should've moved him or indicated that he should be moved.

I don't know if they changed this in Conquests, but perhaps there's some level of War Weariness in monarchy? Gouguien would've been the first city we've lost, and I know in Republic, etc., it would've kicked up WW a notch.

I think the Amphib assault on workers was added to prevent using workers to block every square in order to prevent landings.

EDIT: Also, we can't make peace with Persia, although technically we could make peace with France, but that'd be against the spirit of the game.

I once had a city flip roughly 1000 years after I conquered it, and the nearest original civ city was half a world away....

1415 AD (0)
I have not had the pleasure of leading the great Austrians since I introduced the Hussar to the world. Hopefully, I will be able to introduce them to ToE and Hoover's Dam this time around. I first check on Cathy. She will give us peace and through in SciMeth if we kick in 125gpt. The Arabs won't give it to us for anything and everything and neither the Franch nor the Vikes have it. It looks like the Arabs and Cathy are making off with the tech race. Hopefully, the patch has slowed that down. We still have 5 turns left on an alliance with the Vikes. I only have 900+g and need at least 1400 for an immediate tech steal, 2800+ for a safe steal. However, we are making 450+gpt so it won't take long to build it up. Looking back over the turns, it looks like the Arabs should be pert near close to finishing ToE. Being the nevous type, I decide to investigate the city building it (Yamama). They will complete ToE this turn.


I pause here as I need some input from the group.

1) I do not consider it an exploit (dastardly, yes) to break an alliance if the other people didn't pay us cash or tech to get into it. As the Vikes got paid, any loss would be on our side not theirs.
2) Our trade rep appears to be shot as it is, we have no trade route with the other landmass as France are Russia is blocking the whole thing.

We have two choices, I can buy SciMeth from the Russians, breaking our alliance with the Vikes (something I normally wouldn't do in an SG). We can finish ToE, slightly ahead of the Arabs and most likely grab Hoover's as well. The two techs we get would give us parity and would allow us to get to the other landmass before an Arab launch.

or

We can let the Arabs finish it and most likely Hoover's (we would have to steal 3 techs to get there and then time the pre-build right). We would then have to get to the other big land mass and stop the Arabs from launching before too much longer.

What do we think?

I agree that making peace with the Russians in this situation wouldn't be an exploit, just ordinary ruthless behavior in which we're entitled to engage if we accept the consequences the game system provides. I think we should do it and get SM/ToE.

I agree with NP, I don't see it as an exploit

EDIT: If you go for it, don't forget to switch from Nationalism to Atomic Theory. I did that once and almost put a hole through the wall.

OK, it seems at least three of us agree.

I think our trade rep was shot when we became at war with both Russia and France as all routes went through them...

I'm up for this. No way can we let the Arabs get another two techs.

1415 AD (0)
After consulting with the concil of elders, I make the deal with Cathy. Now that we have trade routes, we still can't get Nationalism even with only 15 turns left on the research. I dump it for Atomic theory and swap the Palace to ToE as I couldn't find another pre-build. We will have to build Hoover's the hard way.
(I) We get ToE, AT, and Electronics.

1420 AD (1)
The best city for Hover's is Viennna, it is due in 27. We need tech so I send AT to Russia for Sanitation, Industrialization, Replacable Parts, WM and 306g. From the Arabs we get Corporation 2gpt and 10g. I want spies so I set research to Nationalism due in 16 turns. I then move the fleet into port and unload everything. The worker goes south to mine near Vienna, the Hussars go to the nearest Rax to heal, The cannon go to the Rax to upgrade as do the muskets. The leader forms an army which gets loaded back into the Galleon. The settler reloads as well. Build some mines and swap some tiles to shave 3 more turns off of Hoover's now due in 24. I upgrade more muskets and a few more cannon. Swap core cities to factories.
(I)Nada

1425 AD (2)
Lot's of MMing and loading of troops.
(I)Nada

1430 AD (3)
Lots of MMing and loading of the fleet. The fleet sets sail with infantry this time. We don't have as many units as we could move, but we aren't making headway sitting around. Do a forrest chop at Graz and expose a BG which gets mined. Swap things around and shave a turn off the factory. Land the troops and cross the fingers.
(I) We don't lose a single unit and even get an elite infantry. We are attacked by longbows and MDI only, hmmm. Which 3-4 rifles move into the city.

1435 AD (4)
We bombard Grenoble and then load 4 infantry into the army. The army takes out two rifles and we then lose 3 Hussars razing the city. A settler builds our foothold city under the infantry on the hill.
(I) Now the French appear. Two SoDs approach our new city.

1440 AD (5)
Rush the Rax in Guessing (the toehold). That should help things heal. Next up Walls. I bombard the nearest stack, but decide against going after 3HP rifles on hills. I wasn't going to send the cannon over until they had been upgraded, but I change my mind and now 22 cannon and 2 infantry are on the way. Set to arrive next turn.
(I) I watch untold French units die to our Infantry army. It gets down to a few HPs and the solo infantry take over, giving us two more elite infantry. We don't lose a single unit and the French start retreating the damaged rifles. Out of about 40 units only nine are left beside our city.

1445 AD (6)
We use the arty to hit any French units 2 squares away, pull the cannon into port and pelt all those units right next to the city. I then use the two elite infantry to take out 1HP rifles with units under them and kill the covered unit with elite Hussars that can make it back to the city. Our infantry army then takes out 1 rifle and 1 musketeer on a moutain leaving only 1 hurt rifle. We lose one vet infantry but the second wins and there are no units within 1 square of Guessing and we only have a single Vet infantry exposed. The french did move three frigates and a galleon near our northern island. I swap one of the cities to a Rax and rush it for up grades.
(I) The French land two groups on two northern islands. The one island I can do nothing about. It has no Rax and is protected by a spear and MDI. The other island finished its Rax. They also move 6 freash rifle near Guessing.

1450 AD (7)
I upgrade the pike to infantry. Pull the pike out of the other city on the same island and will upgrade it next turn. I leave the other island alone as it will fall no matter what. We bomb all of the rifles at Guessing down to 1HP and go leader fishing. It pays well as we get a leader on our fifth try and immediately form an army. I then drop three *Hussars into it. I move the infantry army and the bombard units that haven't fired move next to Orleans.
(I) The French capture Ganogeh. They attack Gandasetaigon but fail to take it. They move seven more units next to Guessing.The Arabs start Hoover's Dam.

1110 AD (8)
Bombard all the units near Guessing and start pounding the city of Orleans. We raze Orleans with the armies and kill off the 7 units around Guessing. We get another GL which I use to form another army and 9 new workers. I move the second settler over in the area next turn we should have a nice city sitting on top of spices to give us another lux. The walls are rushed in Guessing and I will build a harbor next to get the spices out. I move the infantry on the island to cover the empty city and upgrade its former pike to infantry. I drop science down to get cash for upgrades and steal and up lux to combat WW.
(I) The French land a hurt longbow next to the city that was formerly empty. WW strikes and 10% lux wasn't enough for some town, I scroll ahead and get the rest. As long as it wasn't Vienna. The Russians start Hoovers.

1120 AD (9)
Mattersburg is built on the spices. It is set to build a temple. I bombard a single French rifle on their home island, can they be gassed already? The longbow disappeared so I assume they moved it back on a ship or it went off to never-never land. I move the workers and arty on top of a moutain with some infantry. The workers can road and rail and the arty can bombard Besancon. I swap three size six cities in the north to settlers from Ducts. I need some combat settlers, or should I say, the next leader will need them. I do some forest chops to shve some turns off of various projects. Our first factory is due in Graz this turn.
(I) Ah, the French aren't quite finished, they move 11 units next to Guessing, all rifles and longbows.

1130 AD (10)
I bombard and kill off all but two of the units at Guessing, I rush the harbor. We get a leader and I leave his dispositon to the next leader. Start MMing for post factories.

I think we are in trouble with Hoover's. I thought it would take them longer to research the tech. If we lose Hoover's it will be my fault. I didn't investage the cities, we might want to do that. If it weren't so late in my turn, I would have delcared on the Arabs and brought the Russian's in against them. I would advise we do this and then take the empty army and some infantry to pillage the Arab city. We would then have to hope the Arabs stop the Russian's effort.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1465AD.zip

Official hitlist:
Hittite - gone.
Iroquois - gone.
Persia - hanging on by a thumbnail.
France - Down to Longbows for offense.
Russia
Arabs
Scandinavia

Arizona_Steve
Meldor
Northern Pike (up)
Belisar (On Deck)
ChrTh

Now that we have Artillery, we should bombard the Persian city relentlessly.

Good job getting the foothold on France!

EDIT: BTW, The Vikes are an OCC

Got it. Fine work, Meldor. :goodjob:

It just occurred to me ... we can actually use the Auto-Bombard function on Persia!!!!!! WOW!!!!

1465 (0): An attempt to disrupt the Arabs' Hoover build with our armed forces can't help us, because it would take us fourteen turns to get infantry next to Damascus, and our own Hoover build will complete in fifteen turns. But getting the Arabs and the Russians fighting still looks like a good idea, so I declare against the Arabs, and bring the Russians into the war for gems. BTW, our going to war with the Arabs relieves us of the obligation to send them dyes, but since the dyes were extorted out of us there's no exploit involved.

We need at least one ship which can reinforce our eastern islands, or we're likely to lose them all. I switch Kufstein from courthouse to galleon, due immediately.

I switch six cities to factory builds.

I MM us up to 197 gpt. The new double-strength taxmen are great, if you like this sort of thing.

I employ John to form another empty army in Guessing.

IT: No French attacks, but they land a rifleman next to Gewauga.

Ugarit and Wiener Neustadt factory --> coal plant.


1470 (1): Our elite MDI in Gewauga manages to defeat the adjacent French rifleman.

In France we pick off two enemy riflemen and two longbowmen, for no loss, and move a stack next to Besancon.

IT: No French attacks.

Linz factory --> coal plant.


1475 (2): A mixed bombardment (sixteen cannon and seven artillery) redlines the garrison of Besancon (three riflemen) and reduces the city to size six, after which we take it without loss, holding it temporarily for tactical reasons.

We bombard and destroy a French galleon off Guessing.

We destroy two French riflemen and two longbowmen outside Mattersburg, without loss. The last of these attacks produces the GL Wurmser, who forms an army in Guessing.

IT: No French attacks.

The Vikings join the Arabs in a trade embargo against us.


1480 (3): A seventeen-artillery barrage redlines the garrison of Lyons (three riflemen, two longbowmen) and reduces the town to size six (just, with our last shot). We then take the city without loss.

We abandon Besancon and found Pinkafeld next to its ruins. (Ybbs? Pinkafeld? You're just having some fun with these names, right, Belisar?)

So far the focus of the Arab-Russian war has been Yaroslavl, which has changed hands twice.

IT: No enemy attacks, but the Arabs land a cav unit next to Gewauga.

Graz coal plant --> hussar.

Klagenfurt factory --> hussar.


1485 (4): Our elite MDI in Gewauga destroys the Arab cav.

We bombard Marseilles with 21 artillery, redlining the garrison (three riflemen and one longbowman), though the city remains at size nine. We then raze it without loss.

We abandon Lyons and found Michelsdorf one square closer to Paris.

We found Puchberg two squares from the ruins of Marseilles.

IT: No attacks.

Ugarit coal plant --> hussar.

WN coal plant --> stock exchange.

Neusiedl factory --> coal plant.

Ybbs goes into disorder, because it has a Persian citizen who's unhappy about the war. How'd that happen? {Edit: We must have founded Ybbs with a Persian settler.}


1490 (5): We found the tactical city of Schwechat between Mattersburg and Tours.

An eighteen-artillery barrage redlines the garrison of Tours (four riflemen and a longbowman) and reduces the city to size six, after which we take it without loss.

We pick off two French riflemen near Mattersburg, for no loss.

IT: No attacks.

Graz hussar --> stock exchange.

Linz coal plant --> hussar.

Innsbruck factory --> stock exchange.


1495 (6): A 24-artillery barrage redlines the garrison of Paris (just four riflemen) and reduces the city to size six, after which we take it without loss.

We abandon Tours and found Ried next to its ruins.

We defeat two French riflemen near Paris, for no loss.

Yaroslavl has been taken for the third time in the Arab-Russian war, and is now held by the Arabs again.

IT: Ugarit hussar --> stock exchange.

Salzburg factory --> hussar.


1500 (7): We abandon Paris, destroying the Great Wall in the process, and found Soelden one square nearer to Chartres.

An eight-artillery barrage redlines the garrison of Chartres (four riflemen), and we raze the city without loss.

We attack a redlined French rifleman, unfortified on level ground, with a full-strength elite Hussar, and the Hussar dies. :mad: We pick off this rifleman, and one other, for no further loss.

IT: No attacks.

The French declare war on the Russians. Don't they have enough problems?

The Arabs send two impressive task forces, bristling with destroyers, our way. But they land only two depleted cav units next to Gewauga, and a cav and an inf near Zwettl.


1505 (8): Our heroic elite MDI in Gewauga destroys another enemy cav, this one Arab.

Two of the four-unit Hussar armies which can't leave our home continent make short work of the Arab landing force (an inf and a cav) near Zwettl.

We found the tactical city of Vorau between Soelden and Avignon.

We take Avignon, following the usual procedure (thirteen artillery to redline the garrison and reduce the town to size six, held by three riflemen and a longbowman, no friendly losses).

IT: The French sue for peace.

Gewauga, held by a recently upgraded inf, resists the attack of the second Arab cav (which retreats).

The Russians and the Vikings make peace.

WN stock exchange --> hydro plant (Wall Street prebuild).


1510 (9): Our elite MDI in Gewauga destroys the redlined Arab cav.

Our frigates sink a French galleon and its accompanying frigate, both previously redlined by our artillery, off Puchberg.

We take Rheims in the usual manner--33-gun bombardment (over two turns), garrison of four riflemen, no friendly losses.

We abandon Avignon.

We found Trieben next to the ruins of Chartres.

I upgrade our last cannon to artillery. We now have 36 artillery, I believe, counting captured units.

IT: No attacks.

We finish researching Nationalism under our own power--how often do you see that, at a serious difficulty level?--and begin work on Espionage, due in eighteen turns at 40%.

Graz stock exchange --> hospital.

Ghulaman courthouse --> factory.

Neusiedl coal plant --> stock exchange.


1515 (10): We take Rouen according to formula--25-gun bombardment (over two turns), garrison of three riflemen, no friendly losses. The French home island is entirely ours.

We abandon Rheims and Rouen, and found Schladming on the ruins of the latter.

Austrians 59, enemies 1 this round.

Ten elite victories generated one Great Leader.

We're four turns away from completing Hoover in Vienna. Assuming we get it, we have coal plants in Graz, Linz, Neusiedl, Ugarit, and WN which should be sold.

To repeat, the hydro plant in WN is a Wall Street pre-build. We should get our fifth stock exchange one turn before the hydro plant would complete.

We don't have any hospitals yet. One is being built, in Graz.

The front line doesn't seem to have moved much in the Arab-Russian war, except around Yaroslavl. But our army is now strong relative to Russia's, so plainly that war is doing us some good.

Krems has just reached size twelve, and its food surplus is now useless, so several of its irrigated tiles should be mined.

Vienna, Bischofshofen, and Ugarit are suffering intentional food shortages, which can be relieved as soon as they complete their current projects.

Two empty armies and a settler are in Guessing. All our artillery is stacked with the infantry army near Schladming.

If you want to strike at the two French cities on Goigouen Island, we have a modest naval force waiting in Ghulaman. I haven't seen any Arab ships in this area of the ocean, although it's hard to feel safe when their destroyers have a movement factor of nine.

The save:

1515 AD, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1515AD.zip)

French toast mit schlag:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR04-1515AD.JPG

BTW, Belisar hasn't posted here since his request to be skipped on Jan. 12, so I would assume that the request still stands and that ChrTh is now up. If I'm wrong, Belisar, let us know.