ya , paying for people to go to war, that'd be pretty handy.
like Covert Diplomicy :)
So reading through so far i (personaly) like these best :
Buying units
paying for rival Vs Rival warfare
Simpler Civ Mod making
Sea Cannal
Under-sea tunnels for later in the game(a-la channel tunnel)
Sci-fi & fantacy modes brought back
Sea collonies / citys would be nice in games with lots of water
The ability to see Wonders in the MapView
And Maby the ability to controle the layout of your city( i.e. which buildings go where.)

Old problem, following us from CIV1: Please give us a tag "cannot be destroyed by"
meaning: An option that makes sure a sub cannot be sunk by a galley, a Tank not be destroyed by a Medieval Unit.... these things are just ridiculous, and the justification "accidents happen" is just not credible... better include an "accident" event meaning a unit can loose hitpoints or be destroyed by random events (diseases, Explosions,...)

Another important thing: Make terrain have more influence upon units... Tundra and desert should be real barriers for old units, on earth these area remained terra incognita untill the end of the 19th century... There should be an option making these terrain destroying units that remain on them for too long, just like Galley cannot cross ocean, most older units shouldn't be able to go on desert/tundra wihtout a big chance of beeing lost/destroyed (freeze to death, dry out,....)

Originally posted by aeldrik
Another important thing: Make terrain have more influence upon units... Tundra and desert should be real barriers for old units, on earth these area remained terra incognita untill the end of the 19th century... There should be an option making these terrain destroying units that remain on them for too long, just like Galley cannot cross ocean, most older units shouldn't be able to go on desert/tundra wihtout a big chance of beeing lost/destroyed (freeze to death, dry out,....)


Damn Good Idea!

Good ideas.


Certain units should have a bonus against certain types (forgive me if this is already covertly implemented, if so the editor doesn't show it!) Spear/pikemen should defend better against mounted units (incl. cavalry who often fought with sabres), bombers and atrillery should do more damage to vehicles and less to footsoldiers (or else have lethal bombard against vehicles but not foot units, all units with ranged weapons should have an advantage against slow units that don't (i.e. archers, infantry or tanks vs. pikemen or swordsmen). Artillery should have hit points and a defensive value, that only applies to bombardament so you could try and destroy enemy guns (units with attack values capture/destroy them as normal). Planes should be bombable on the ground, as should ships in harbor. There should be at least a chance of capturing planes and ships when you take their city, increased if you take the city on your first or second attempt that turn (so the defenders don't have time to sabotage the planes and scuttle the fleet).

The amount of a resource you have should limit how many cities/workers can be building things dependent on it at a time (each iron source allows five or so cities to be building pikemen/knights at a time). So if you get an iron caravan to your city, five (or whatever) of your cities connected by roads and territory could build units requiring iron before more must be brought in. A shipment of spices can please a certain number of citizens for a certain number of turns, and you split it among connected cities as you like. This is getting too complicated but I like the thrust, because it enables the following . . .


Resource and luxery shipments (and possibly tax collections) should be embodied by units that must be escorted, and various age-appropriate uniformless land and sea units should be available to raid weakly defended convoys. To prevent this from consuming the game, these units could be abstracted to simple trade routes as now BUT ONLY on land tiles owned by your culture, so the trek from a far away resource exploiting city/colony would require escort, as would all transport by sea. You would have to negotiate special resource unit only ROP treaties with other civs to get the same benefits across their territory. After all, history was made by the trade routes (The Silk Road) the great flotillas (from the stripmined South America to Spain, from America and the Empire to embattled Britain), and pirates (Sir Francis Drake, the u-boats) who raided them. You would need a strong navy to defend your sea lanes, not just artillery, bombers, coastal forts and a few ships to keep your ports from being blockaded.

1) Make units be able to use only specific terrains to pass. Example: rail gun can drive only on rail roads.
2) Allow to specify options differently for AI and human for all buildings and units. Example: Barracks in human hands produce veteran in AI Elite units. Spearman cost 10 for Human 8 for AI or vice versa. That will allow to make balanced scenarios.
3) Have unit to jam precision strike. With such unit it always should fail.
4) Invention of radio should allow worker to build telephone lines over the squares that add 1 commercial bonus.
5) The units with era difference should not win over newly units, but can make only non fatal damage. Example If tank fight with spearman tank should always win but not without damage. but if spearman attack tank in can not kill but can damage tank.
6) Loan to the other countries should increase cultural conversion rates.
7) Option in spy or diplomats break country or country can itself:) U have strong and big (should not work with not big) opponent, than you pay some money and it split on 2 countries (not equal size). Or if some side is not really happy and too far away it can separate from main land.
8) Unit town statistics at the end. Build 10 towns capture 40 towns loss 5 towns. Loss spearman 10 rifleman 20. Kill spearman 50 tanks 1000...

Originally posted by BrianL03
I know it sounds weird, but I'd prefer a Civ3.5 more than a Civ4. It'd have the following changes:

First, animation unit graphics would be simplified to Civ2 esque for quicker loads and less processor pull. This would also allow easier scenario creation (something I would love to do, but don't have the patience for Civ3's crazy things).

Second, the cheat menu would be re-instated. Sometimes, I just want to play a quick "what would happen if I nuked these guys" for a turn, and then reload.

Third, the chance to steal units from another civilization. (deserters)

Fourth, being able to trade units to other civs/receive units. (US/Britain in 1939, mercenaries)

Fifth, be able to pay another civ to declare war on another civ, but let you stay out of it.


1. perhaps an option to those who want that. but scenario writers providing low level [civ2] and hegher level [civ3+] animations both would be difficult but maybe ...
2. must mark the file w/ flag having used cheat.
3. nice idea.
4. much needed and mentioned here. are you listening, atari?
5. i love this one. why was setting up other civs removed from civ3 espionage? it was in civ2. but openly paying another civ to fight a war for you, that's okay. i personally would liuke set up other civ brought back.

Originally posted by a4phantom
Good ideas.


Certain units should have a bonus against certain types (forgive me if this is already covertly implemented, if so the editor doesn't show it!) Spear/pikemen should defend better against mounted units (incl. cavalry who often fought with sabres), bombers and atrillery should do more damage to vehicles and less to footsoldiers (or else have lethal bombard against vehicles but not foot units, all units with ranged weapons should have an advantage against slow units that don't (i.e. archers, infantry or tanks vs. pikemen or swordsmen). Artillery should have hit points and a defensive value, that only applies to bombardament so you could try and destroy enemy guns (units with attack values capture/destroy them as normal). Planes should be bombable on the ground, as should ships in harbor. There should be at least a chance of capturing planes and ships when you take their city, increased if you take the city on your first or second attempt that turn (so the defenders don't have time to sabotage the planes and scuttle the fleet).

The amount of a resource you have should limit how many cities/workers can be building things dependent on it at a time (each iron source allows five or so cities to be building pikemen/knights at a time). So if you get an iron caravan to your city, five (or whatever) of your cities connected by roads and territory could build units requiring iron before more must be brought in. A shipment of spices can please a certain number of citizens for a certain number of turns, and you split it among connected cities as you like. This is getting too complicated but I like the thrust, because it enables the following . . .


Resource and luxery shipments (and possibly tax collections) should be embodied by units that must be escorted, and various age-appropriate uniformless land and sea units should be available to raid weakly defended convoys. To prevent this from consuming the game, these units could be abstracted to simple trade routes as now BUT ONLY on land tiles owned by your culture, so the trek from a far away resource exploiting city/colony would require escort, as would all transport by sea. You would have to negotiate special resource unit only ROP treaties with other civs to get the same benefits across their territory. After all, history was made by the trade routes (The Silk Road) the great flotillas (from the stripmined South America to Spain, from America and the Empire to embattled Britain), and pirates (Sir Francis Drake, the u-boats) who raided them. You would need a strong navy to defend your sea lanes, not just artillery, bombers, coastal forts and a few ships to keep your ports from being blockaded.



well regarding resources and units/ buildings dependent on them, perhaps if the resource was used up if over expoited by building more dependent stuff than allowed. if using more than say 4 items per resource exhausted supply. if imported it wouldn't let you. if domestic it could deplete resource faster. "sir, we have wiped out our supply of ivory!"

Originally posted by aeldrik
Another important thing: Make terrain have more influence upon units... Tundra and desert should be real barriers for old units, on earth these area remained terra incognita untill the end of the 19th century... There should be an option making these terrain destroying units that remain on them for too long, just like Galley cannot cross ocean, most older units shouldn't be able to go on desert/tundra wihtout a big chance of beeing lost/destroyed (freeze to death, dry out,....)

how about vunerable to terrain box [they have a box for not counting movement versus terrain]. and as far as what terrain is impassible? another box? and penalties for certain terrain [ movement and defense] for certain units only, another set of boxes? ... lots of control.

how about an armoured flag. so non armoured units couldn't really defeat armoured units unless 100-1 or something and & even then 80+ casualties. wooden vessels should stand much chance againt iron vessels. when 2 ironclads fought in the U.S. civil war, every other navy on earth became obsolete. thus making future vessels iron ones. het a dirigible is a non-armoured aircraft like a balloon.

anti-aircraft flag should be available also.

on a chance 30 spearmen could take a musketman, but not a tank. perhaps a take out armour flag also.

one other item: air units- i like the missions, but some units should have a 'hover' ability like rebasing but not landing [using movement points to hover per turn. choppers? but blimps, balloons, zeppelins, etc also dragons as an air unit. [or pterdactyls?].

also while i'm listing stuff,
levels of loading/unloading: ctrl U to upgrade U for unloading
but you could put a pack animal loaded with treasure on a boat.
you should be able to land a helicopter [with foot units] on a carrier. a troop transport (a truck)[with greater movement] or armoured peronnel carrier should be able to carry foot units that can be carried by transort ship or C-130.

btw i want troop transport device, pack animals [llamas, horses, camels, elephants, oxen] to carry immoble stuff like treasure, , C-130 transport plane in regular game.

i also think that on that polder idea [land from coast/sea/ocean] that you should be able to create coast from land [flooding it - like canal]

Two things that absolutely need to be changed about sea units:

1- bring back the old system of CIV2 which allowed ships to cross narrow land strips, or to make it more understandable, when two oposites tile are earth, and the surrounding ones are water, in CIV3 units can walk from one to the other, but ships cannot cross it, as they coul in CIV2...
the Problem with this is that it is now no longer possible to create geographical spots like the Bosphorus, which was a great option...

2- The harbors of allies should be made available to a player, meaning your ships should be able to enter an allies city with an harbor, and get repair,...
This is historically very logical, and would have one great side effect:
Make Canals like the Panama Canal and the Suez Canal real option in the game....

Originally posted by SesnOfWthr
OK - Call me lazy but I'm not reading 700+ posts to see if this has been mentioned.

Calm down, if we each did a couple of pages it would take next to no work for anyone

for example pages 1-4:

i'm using "/" as an abreviation for "as a function of", "depending on", "per"

1)
a)combined arms,stack combat,bombard
b)buy,sell units
c)move aircraft as other units on the map
d)higher precision in the sience,comerce,lux slider
e)Wonder and Improvement names tailored to culture groups
f)name landmarks, premade and player inserted
g)Soundtrack tailored to cultural groups
h)many unique units per civ
i)leader type for each civ trait
j)canals,bridges,tunnels
k)flow rates in rivers
l)aqueduct cost/distance from fresh water
m)multiple maps (civ2:TOT)
p)BETTER AI
q)ai more dependent on which civ they represent
r)three way diplomacy
s)victory videos
t)forces of nature
u)faster ships,ocean airport
v)types of ROP land,sea,air
w)traditional enemies
x)modernized barbarians (terrorists, geurillas)
y)modern tech to include current research
z)post modern tech/units/govs
aa)more detail in control of embargos/trade
ab)black market, drugs
ac)more choice of civ, canada
ad)customisable Diplomacy Summary Screen
ae)Room for more civs on the civ selection screen
af)"CivScript"
ag)sim-city type cities (I hope not)
ah)small wonder- universal sufferage
ai)war weariness:more or less for losses at away or home
aj)satelites

2)
a)allow cities on all terrain but stunted on bad ones(montains..ect...)
b)"god povers"/civ,/civ trait
c)Peacekeepers
d)civ traits change depending on use
e)high score list/dificulty level
f)powers & people groups other than, independent of, within civs
g)creativity:tech choices depend on civ,environment
h)barbarians as minor civ
i)RPG type leaders
j)religion: STAY GENERIC, Fanatics!, culture
k)diplomacy: Star Empires 4, EUII
l)quick fortify
m)convert, bribe units
n)transport, trade of FOOD
o)quantify lux, strategic resources
p)transport, trade of Production
q)the world is ROUND (http://www.3d-world-map.net-software-download.com/)
r)extended cities(more than one square)
s)required building,wonder for unit
t)SOCIAL ENGINEERING
u)Economical Facelift: fibonnacci algorithms (!?!)
v)wieght diplomatic gold values depending on economics
w)trade tariffs
x)physical trade routs
y)stock market (linked to civs)
z)un counsol: SMACx, global law
aa)limit rail movement, 12 or 1/6
ab)realistic graphics: moving water, formations of troops

3)
a)shipa in rivers
b)limit river crossings without bridges
c)geography: plateaus
d)olympics
e)patrol, sentry function
f)bring back fireght
g)civ trait: Judicial
h)gouvernment slider: democracy <---> dictatorship, capitalism <--> socialism
i)BETTER AI strategy, focus
j)terrain classes: 'wild'->'tamed'->'settled'
k)units get support/bounty of terrain (nomads)
l)boilogical lux start in few places then spread, are farmed
m)level of terrain exploitation
n)delocalise food & economics, they aoutomatically go where needed
o)bring back: cheat Menu (debug mode)
p)terrain: parks, nature reserves
q)terrain: intermediary types
r)fishing colony
s)naval leaders
t)off shore oil-> build oig rig
u)3d real time tactical combat (I hope not)

4)
a)start ag generic tribe develope/terrain, choices
b)specialist requires spesific building, specialists give bonus not buildings
c)multiple simultaneous construcrion
d)all units take pop points, fractional points?
e)building cost and space/terrain type
f)not all buildings need to be in a city: airport
g)migrants
h)area of effect leaders
i)units revolt
j)divide missile/melee troops
k)unit facings in defensives
l)Milita-> autoconscription?
m)battelfield memorials
n)Great wonders visible on main map
o)hilly jungle, hilly desert, hilly forest....
p)rivers: bigger border,combat effect
q)more small wonders based on resource combinations
r)non deterministic great wonders
s)programable workers
t)rally points, default programming
u)propaganda
v)nukes: seperate delivery systems & warheads
w)Nukes: different types of warheads
x)diplomacy option: neuclear monitoring
y)steel tech on conquest, victory
z)troops and weapons as seperate entities
aa)customisable unit types
ab)all civs allready like comunism -> you control everything
ac)civ spesific wonders
ad)threats: "crossing that mouantian range will be counted as a declaration of war"
ae)movies: advisors, wonders
af)claim land with troops not cities
ag)civ spesific techs
ah)civil war, civ splits creating new civs
aI)unit looks/civ
aj)unit types, bonus vs. unit type


once we have the list we continus the data mining and divide it by category. you don't have to do 4 pages, one or two is fine, just mention first which pages you will do, so no one works for nothing. only do whole pages. try to keep the headings general, try not to repeat ideas within your list and we'll kill the duplicates across the list-list once they're all done.

it would only take a few people to sort this thing out in no time.

let the data mining begin!

5)
a)civ spesific wonders:list
b)move marines and seals over one or two sea squares
c)more detailed spy missions
d)"number of kills per unit per civ"
e)moer detailed SMAC like terrain
f)Bigger map sizes
g)less corruption
h)more detailed tech tree
i)graphics don't need to be fancy 3D
j)too many wonders allready
k)optional pop up battle window

6)
a) resistance even without cities
b)civ traits:nomadicm, monumentalistic,isolationist, espion
c)a surrender option for allowing survival, tribute and locked alliance
d)more native american civs
e)"fortify for x turns"
f)expanded gouvernmental collapse ruls
g)space station, moon, mars
h)less random random combat
i)police

see it gets easier as you go because 75% of the 700+posts are repeating the same ideas

don't forget that there's also this thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62365

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shirleyrocks
[B]A more robust combat system that can take multiple units and combined arms within a stack into account. If you have 10 tanks going up against a single infantry unit, each tank shouldn't have to individually fight the infantry one by one, they should simply be able to swarm the poor guy and get it the battle over with.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bad idea, that's not more realistic at all, it's more realistic as it is. Its not to easy to take out an infantry division, even if you have 5 tank divisions, and remember they are covering a large area, so its never possible that they all can attack at once.

And for those who hasnt noticed so are combined arms a factor in todays game, with artillery, rockets and aircrafts!

Please dont give us a ctp or heroes army system, where you just need to ensemble the largest forces at one spot and allways win, thats stupid, and a small country would be defenceless vs a large on. Remember how the finish people fought the russians during the winter war, and that it wasnt just to overrun the germans after 1. january 1945, even if the allies had 10 times the forces.

I think the battle system of civ to day is very good, just modify it with attack/defence bonuses, and dont give airunits lethal bombardment vs footsoldiers, then its still a point having foot infantry in the modern age!!!

7)

a)it's a lot harder than that to get to alpha centari-> go to mars first
b)modular Ai programming
c)wonders: stone henge, the parthenon
d)spy satalite: reveal 5x5 map grid/turn
e)building or small wonder: Meuseum
f) tarraced hills, mouantians
g)coliseums % happy insted of fixed number?
h)satalites: launch pad
i)auto upgrade very old units
j)blimps, baloons
k)Recon only airctaft
l)oceanic barbarians-->pirats
m)stockpile resources
n) make dificulty levels smarter not just cheats
o)organic, evolviong civ traits
p)ai programing: autotargeted nukes
q)fluid production
r)victory odds before attack option
s)rural population
t)unit spesific attack,defense bonus/terrain
u) population growth not based only on food

:p

Suki: even though you probably won't find a lot of people to help you do this list, just wanted to say great job.... you should contact Thunderfall and ask him to make you a thread or give you a free post at the start of this thread to post this list, otherwise it will get lost in a couple of weeks....

Call me lazy, but I just don't feel like reading through 39 pages of ideas, no matter how good they are. So Suki please keep this up, it definetly shortens the reading time. Also I don't know if this has been said yet, but ever since we have had a specific territory we control, I don't understand why we have this archaic system from Civ 1 where a city is only fed through its own city squares. Since when does New York or London or Paris or (you get the idea) depend on its food from the surrounding areas??? Not even during the ancient Roman Republic times did they depend on grain from their own area- post Punic War Rome received most of its grain from Sicily and Northern Africa. I propose that you make an advance that allows you to collect food from any area within your territory. This has other affects, like you can now build two cities next to each other (for instance Minneapolis and St. Paul or Miami and Ft. Lauderdale). As an avid player of historical scenarios, this would make gameplay more accurate (something every historical scenario advocate strives for). This also more accurately depicts what a civilization is like. How many wars has France and Germany fought over Alsace and Lorraine? They fought over this area b/c of its fertility and minerals. This isn't truly depicted in Civ 3

Another idea would be to add cost to road, highway, railroad construction. In real life these things cost a lot of money, which is why many countries don't have a sufficient road system. This would be more difficult to implement b/c it would also require a readjustment of the whole economic system- but if it could be done, it would be nice to see.

Also I wouldn't mind an option on the scenario editor where you can clear all roads, cities, improvements, whatever off of the map and just keep the map itself (if you can do this already, please tell me how to do it other than going square by square).

That's all I have for now but I'm sure I'll come up with some more later...

Originally posted by jabancho
An addition:
Wonders and small wonders civ specific, with a balanced benefit (perhaps 2 or 3, in different ages)...
<examples snipped>

Yes, I would like that! Also civ specific buildings and - looking at the mod of Embryodead - civ specific technologies. But of course, the game should remain balanced.

Originally posted by BrianL03
I know it sounds weird, but I'd prefer a Civ3.5 more than a Civ4. It'd have the following changes:

First, animation unit graphics would be simplified to Civ2 esque for quicker loads and less processor pull. This would also allow easier scenario creation (something I would love to do, but don't have the patience for Civ3's crazy things).
Hmm... that might be desireable...

Second, the cheat menu would be re-instated.
Such as it exists in Civ 2?

Third, the chance to steal units from another civilization. (deserters)
You mean the ability to bribe units and/or cities from an enemy non-Democratic civ?

Fourth, being able to trade units to other civs/receive units. (US/Britain in 1939, mercenaries)
Yes.

Fifth, be able to pay another civ to declare war on another civ, but let you stay out of it. [/B]
Also, yes. I would like that, too.

Planes moves like another units, more diplomacy options (like: 'stop to atack the *civ*'), more insults to make'em angry hehe. :goodjob: :D :D

Originally posted by vlad1917
1) Make units be able to use only specific terrains to pass. Example: rail gun can drive only on rail roads.
2) Allow to specify options differently for AI and human for all buildings and units. Example: Barracks in human hands produce veteran in AI Elite units. Spearman cost 10 for Human 8 for AI or vice versa. That will allow to make balanced scenarios.
3) Have unit to jam precision strike. With such unit it always should fail.
4) Invention of radio should allow worker to build telephone lines over the squares that add 1 commercial bonus.
5) The units with era difference should not win over newly units, but can make only non fatal damage. Example If tank fight with spearman tank should always win but not without damage. but if spearman attack tank in can not kill but can damage tank.
6) Loan to the other countries should increase cultural conversion rates.
7) Option in spy or diplomats break country or country can itself:) U have strong and big (should not work with not big) opponent, than you pay some money and it split on 2 countries (not equal size). Or if some side is not really happy and too far away it can separate from main land.
8) Unit town statistics at the end. Build 10 towns capture 40 towns loss 5 towns. Loss spearman 10 rifleman 20. Kill spearman 50 tanks 1000...

For preventing excessive quoting after one suggestion, I give my opinions here. The numbers relates to the numbers you used above.

1. Yes, I would like that. Embryodead wrote a mod, in which certain units cannot walk on mountains, unless there are roads and/or railroads there.
2. I am not quite sure what you mean. I think this already exists. Until Regent the AI is in disadvantage to human players; above Regent the AI is in advantage.
3. You mean chances of attack by an enemy unit? It sounds like a Diablo 2 curse (assuming that some of us know Diablo 2) :)
7. I don't know whether I would like that.
8. Yes, especially after winning.
I have no clear opinion about the suggestions that I skipped in my reply.

Originally posted by aeldrik
Two things that absolutely need to be changed about sea units:

2- The harbors of allies should be made available to a player, meaning your ships should be able to enter an allies city with an harbor, and get repair,...
This is historically very logical, and would have one great side effect:
Make Canals like the Panama Canal and the Suez Canal real option in the game....
I noticed that Civ 2 had that possibility, but not with Harbors reparing sea units, but with Barracks repairing land units.

Originally posted by UFDelt
Call me lazy, but I just don't feel like reading through 39 pages of ideas, no matter how good they are. So Suki please keep this up, it definetly shortens the reading time.
You might sound a bit upset to others, but I agree with you, though. This thread is much too long. That's why I proposed the Forum Administrator to create a new forum category, and split this thread into multiple threads. That is easier to browse through.

Also I don't know if this has been said yet, but ever since we have had a specific territory we control, I don't understand why we have this archaic system from Civ 1 where a city is only fed through its own city squares. Since when does New York or London or Paris or (you get the idea) depend on its food from the surrounding areas??? Not even during the ancient Roman Republic times did they depend on grain from their own area- post Punic War Rome received most of its grain from Sicily and Northern Africa. I propose that you make an advance that allows you to collect food from any area within your territory. This has other affects, like you can now build two cities next to each other (for instance Minneapolis and St. Paul or Miami and Ft. Lauderdale).
I think these limitations are added to make the gameplay possible. It is not necessarily realistic. IRL, a battleship is able to travel around the world in one year. In Civ it would mean unfair advantages.

I'm not upset, I'm just lazy like I said. Also maybe I wasn't clear enough on my idea. Once you have the ability to collect your food together, there should be some central control for your food to the cities- not a phsyical building or wonder but an advisor type thing where you can either control which cities get what food or you can set a governor to take control of it. Perhaps in order for your city to receive the benefit of this, they would have to build something like a granary, which the Pyramids should still give since the idea of a collective granary system has been around since the time of the Egyptians. This idea would change the gameplay certainly, but it would still be possible AND it would make it more interesting, IMHO. I recognize that the city screen would also be vastly different from what it looks like now, but I feel it is necessary in order for this game to evolve to the next level. The whole purpose of Civilization is to imitate a civilization going through time and I feel like my idea is just one of the many that would help make that purpose more realistic (which I hope is what everyone's goal is).

60 to 100 civilizations

different in various ways: unique unit(s), traits, cultural group (american, asian, indian, middle east, meditteranean (roman)) (with specially named units, buildings, own small/big wonders), etc. . .

BUT these civilizations are not equally strong. They are divided into groups:

-big civs: 25+ civs, mostly the ones from civ3 C3:C, can have two golden ages (and two dark ages... ), own wonder, one to two unique units!

-middle civs: 25+ civs, the other ones from civ3 C3:C + some like Khmer, Mali, Songhai, Nigeria, Brasilia, Scotland, tibetians, Sioux, Switzerland and so on. 1 golden age (1 dark age), one unique unit

-little civs: the remaining ones, 1 golden age (1 dark age), one unique unit, only ONE trait!

-city states: someone like the Vatican, Venezia, Genoa, Palmyra. I think there are many other, but no one comes to my mind yet. ... :) 1 golden age (1 dark age, which they perhaps do not survive), two traits, only one city (but better colonies (they cannot be swallowed by other civilizations, when the cultural borders expand) (two traits?)

-barbarian: NO traits, but can evolve into a civilization by gaining control of most of their cities (mixing of people, result in a little civ), one unique unit, they have a production bonus on units.

--> This results in several difficulties. It is a lot harder to win with a barbarian than with a big civ. . . Also there are more big civs in every game than ones from the other groups. This should be a system of historical correctness, not of dividing the civs into a line of 'greatness'

mfG mitsho

Make Suki a great leader (thanks for cataloguing the ideas)

--

Some more wonder ideas…

Great Wonders

Peace Corps (Red Cross, Habitat for Humanity, Doctors w/o Borders, et al)
Available with new tech, Civil Activism.
☼ Creates a worker unit with a move of three that has right of passage in every country.
☼ The PC unit can make terrain improvements (but not changes), and build any standard, non-military city improvement, based upon the technology of the PC owners civ. The PC would be adjacent to the city to build improvement rather than in it. City improvements are paid from taxes, and must be be at least 10% of the cost/turn. Gold spent is lost if the project is cancelled.
☼ The turn an improvement is made or is in progress, and the turn after will make the benefiting civ 2 points more favorable (or however it works) to the PC civ, and all other civs 1 point more favorable.
☼ If no work is done for two turns, the PC can be expelled. If attacked, it is expelled, not destroyed. The city with the wonder must be destroyed to destroy the unit. Attacking the PC will draw the ire of all civs.
☼ The unit can go “through” any ground unit. This is to prevent the player exploit of surrounding the unit to trap it.

Voice of Freedom (Voice of America)
Available at Radio
Broadcasts of propaganda make all the owners spy actions half the cost.

Iron Curtain
Available at Communism
All spy activity against the owner’s civ cost 50% more.

--

Small Wonders

I mentioned earlier museums, and theme parks

Spa/Chalet
Availble with Construction
Req: Must be in artic region.
All mountains with roads adjacent to a volcano and within the city radius produce two extra commerce, worked or not, unless occupied by enemy forces.

Beach Resort
Available ?
Req: City built on a temperate or tropical seacoast. All coastal tiles with roads produce one extra commerce, worked or not, unless occupied by enemy forces.

Gambling Strip (Las Vegas, Monte Carlo. Macao, etc)
Available with flight
One commerce per citizen of the Wonder’s city, regardless of assignment.

Someone else mentioned national park, but didn’t elaborate.
National Park
Available with Nationalism
Req: The city must have at one non-planted forest tile within its radius that is adjacent to at least two others. One of which must be adjacent to a river or lake.
Each Forest tile produces one point of commerce to the Wonder’s city whether it’s in the city radius or not, unless occupied by enemy forces. The tiles do not need roads.

Another Small Wonder

War Memorial
Available with Nationalism after a war has ended
Reduce war fatigue in all cities. The War Memorial becomes obsolete at the end of any war. It may be rebuilt. In other words, you have to build a war memorial after every war for it to be effective.

In my previous post, I was too restrictive for national parks. They could be any undeveloped land (roads & R/Rs are OK) within the cultural border. Perhaps the number of commerce should be proportional to the terrain type.

--

POWs

If an attacker wins a battle and has at least two points on the health bar, there is a chance it could capture the unit as a POW instead of destroying it. The chance is greatest for a militaristic civ. The player has the option of destroying the unit anyway. The attacking unit moves at the pace of the POW. The attackers attack damage is reduced by one per POW unit.
The POW maybe traded with the enemy civ, even during war, if it is willing to negotiate. A POW will disappear after 20 turns. Captured POWs increase war weariness.

--
Captured Weapons

If an attacking unit defeats a more technologically advanced unit (spearman beats tank ;-), the attackers civ should get a bonus when researching that particular technology. The affect should be cumulative.

Another Small Wonder

War Memorial
Available with Nationalism after a war has ended
Reduce war fatigue in all cities. The War Memorial becomes obsolete at the end of any war. It may be rebuilt. In other words, you have to build a war memorial after every war for it to be effective.

In my previous post, I was too restrictive for national parks. They could be any undeveloped land (roads & R/Rs are OK) within the cultural border. Perhaps the number of commerce should be proportional to the terrain type.

--

POWs

If an attacker wins a battle and has at least two points on the health bar, there is a chance it could capture the unit as a POW instead of destroying it. The chance is greatest for a militaristic civ. The player has the option of destroying the unit anyway. The attacking unit moves at the pace of the POW. The attackers attack damage is reduced by one per POW unit.
The POW maybe traded with the enemy civ, even during war, if it is willing to negotiate. A POW will disappear after 20 turns. Captured POWs increase war weariness.

--
Captured Weapons

If an attacking unit defeats a more technologically advanced unit (spearman beats tank ;-), the attackers civ should get a bonus when researching that particular technology. The affect should be cumulative.

1. Be able to formally lay out the objectives of a war, i.e. conditions the enemy will have to meet (surrendering a certain technology, paying a certain indemnity, giving a luxery or resource, licking your boots, ending a war with another civ) or that you will have to accomplish (taking a certain city) for you to agree to peace. The AI would do the same, and your reputation would depend on your ability to meet the conditions and then cease hostilities. I don't know if this is really possible to put into the game, but it would add a certain amount of realism, allow you to distinguish between total wars to annihilate civs and limited wars, and (finally!) provide a way to end wars involving alliances without making a treacherous seperate peace. Also, borders should be adjustable so that you could surrender specific territory without giving up all the cities around it. If I have a medium culture city and you have a strong culture city and a valuable tile is within both their radii, you should be able to trade it to me. After a certain number of turns it would be at risk of switching back to your stronger pull, but in my experience possession is 9/10 of ownership when both cities are established already.


2. Someone mentioned bribing units. Units should be at risk of defecting (culture flipping) when within the cultural borders of a superior civ.

How about some form of award given for the first civilization to have circumnavigated the globe. Maybe a score bonus of 200pts, or maybe 500 gold.

Originally posted by Philips beard
[QUOTE]Originally posted by shirleyrocks
[B]
Please dont give us a ctp or heroes army system, where you just need to ensemble the largest forces at one spot and allways win, thats stupid, and a small country would be defenceless vs a large on. Remember how the finish people fought the russians during the winter war, and that it wasnt just to overrun the germans after 1. january 1945, even if the allies had 10 times the forces.

!!!

Yes i didnt like that method of unit movement in heros & ctp

Another Great Wonder suggestion

Cathedral of the Intercession (St. Basil’s Cathedral)
Available After discovery of salt peter.
Requirement. Capture or destruction of an enemy’s capital city.
All troops built in the city with the Cathedral of the Intercession are elite.

8)
a) easily moddable graphice either 2 or 3d
b)the posibility of liberating cities that formally belonged to an ally
c)limit explosive land grab
d)culture flip too much of a big effect/small chance
e)culture flip insted cause repels, defecters
f)why can the ai count happyness from lux but you cant?
g)allow research,production to carry over from unit to unit,tech to tech: otherwise we are forced to micromanage
h)change corruption algorythm
i)spy mission: assasinate, bribe great leader.
j)diplomacy: demilitarization
k)civil liberties, ex: emancipation, universal sufferage. near or connected to social engineering
l)nautral wonders, mt Fugi, Niagra falls,
m)fishing fleets, like current colonies or SMAC supply convoys
n) pacts; deeper forms of alliances
o)MACRO-management functions
p)gridless map
q)in game costumisable units
r)units causing area of effect effects

9)
a)blind research option
b)physical trade routes: tradign post
c)teratory claims, like in Disciples II, the flags. maybe with explorers
d)multiple simultaneous production
e)drawn out terraforming plans

10)
a)make very abstract techs non tradeable
b)building: imigration office. refugees, 'huddled masses'
c)POW's
d)tech classes: Militaristic, Social, Economic...
e)less infrastructure destruction on city conquest
f)Hex Grid
g)logistics, troop support lines
h)public works % production
i)don't call it Civ IV call it cIV
j)force military diversity
k)unit moral
l)no direct tech tree, probabalistic connections?

come on guys, i've done a whole quarter of this thing..

@suki
In which post are you in right now?

A high culture/population ratio and many religious buildings should shorten the period of revolutionary anarchy. Something might have to be done to compensate religious civs, such as missionaries that increase the rate at which captured population assimilates.

we really need a forum for CIV4 now

Originally posted by Zenon_pt
@suki
In which post are you in right now?

alright, someone willing to help.

with this to the end of page 12, I haven't worked on it since

like I said, if you want to do some just leave a post stating which you will do, then post it when you're done, or you could use the edit and post it over the place holder.

thanks for your help

Originally posted by aeldrik
Suki: even though you probably won't find a lot of people to help you do this list, just wanted to say great job.... you should contact Thunderfall and ask him to make you a thread or give you a free post at the start of this thread to post this list, otherwise it will get lost in a couple of weeks....

excelent idea, I'll do that once it all gets through this first level of processing.

page 11)
a)remember:it's not a strategy game if there's only one that works.
b)steal science through conquest
c)the power of a wonder will vary a lot depending on the map size and type, vary cost the same way?
d)built in result feedback for ladders/tournaments
e)Mercenarys
f)AI too predictable
g)bring back: firepower
h)mine fields, the explosive kind
i)give ranged units a light bombard "harassement" ability
j)don't limit rail movement, a turn is minimum one year.
k)railway stations
l)different levels or road, irigation, rails, mines

page 12)
a)combat engineers
b)bring back: spy
c)Superhighways
d)simultaneous combat; state all attacks, attacks execute
e)bring back: refrigeration
f)detachments, each HP represent a platoon(?) detachable, reformable
g)why have all buildings on the city square
h)why be limited to one of each building?
i)electrical power lines
j)aqueducts as tile improvements
k)aquefers
l)hydro plant as tile improvement
m)comunication lines
n)civ trait: "Artistic" city improvements: theaters, operas, museums

Museums would be nice. Should they do happiness or science (along with major culture)?

I think that military units should be divided into three sections, land sea and air, and the military advisor could give you different reports on each, that way, the AI wouldn't just build a few ships and a handful of planes and think it's even with you because it has lots of ground forces while you're sinking their transports and bombing their cities to rubble with ease.

I'll post pages 13,14 and 15 here in a few minutes

13)
a)build ques like galactic civilisations
b)limit the number of buildings a city can have/local economy
c)rework airlift
d)ground transports
e)modern monarchy is a lot different from ancient monarchy
f)make heavy lift cargo planes a map unit
g)midair refuling
h)space combat
i)give more buildingd possible bad side effects
j)flowing government tree, only revoloutions if you switch branches


14)
a)construction equipment for workers
b)torriodal map
c)possible scenario: start civs on different planets, meet once you discover the radio, interact when you discover space flight
d)dark ages
e)entangle corruption, happieness, culture
f)media: tv, radio, internet
g)tourism; environmental, cultural
h)consumption of strategic resources by citizens, oil a lux?
i)market economy, private capital, social classes, burguesy, nobility, peasants, proletariat
j)provinces; federation
k)isreal as a civ

15)
a)future tech that actually does something
b)choose your defender
c)amusment park small wonder
d)nomadism a viable strategy in the early game
e)"A single death is a tragedy, a million is just a statistic."
f)gov sliders; capitalist<-->socialist, tyrany<-->democracy, unification<--> city states, anti religion<-->fundamentalist

Last night I had this thought about luxury bonuses:

It would be interesting if some luxuries had a bonus (say, +50% happiness), if they were paired with a complementary luxury. Wine & Spices, Wool & Dyes (and/or Silks & Dyes), Incense & Tobacco, Gems & (some precious metal) ...

... you get my drift. It would make the gathering of luxury resources a little more focused and , perhaps, a little more fun.

I like the complimentary luxury idea, Plechazunga.

16)

a)zones of control
b)draft Mechinfantry!?!
c)refule ships
d)tech dependent bonus's/civ trait, civ trait dependent techs
e)claim land by walking unit on it, surromded land belongs to you (colonisation)
f) shouldn't have 8 civs all building the same wonder then convert 99% of the pyramids to the great library if they loose
g)first to build a small wonder gets more culture from it
h)customisable music selection
i)terraforming
j)more than one of a building in the same city
k)reward war mongers less

17)
a) dynamic map
b)city view is useless
c)more improvements that require a resource in city radius

18)
a)have the workable resource radius depend on transport not culture
b)river transport
c)civil wars: mergers
d)civil engineering plans
e)POW's
f)learning AI

19)
a)realistic economics
b)transplanting agricultureal resources to cimilar climates
c)multiple layers of rules depending on how in depth you want to go
d)in game notes file so it's easier to remember what you were doing

20)
a)less americanism: apollo program and Manhattan project as small wonders
b)allow "regular" conscripts with a (small?) wonder if you get a conscript up to eliete
c)"I'm not going through 20 pages so I'll just post stuf that's allready been said"

21)
a)set escorts
b)"partisans take to the hills around XXXX"
c)canada and Australia do not have london as their capital

22)
a)reinforced terrain improvements take longer to pillage
b)for some things increase upkeep with age
c)very stealth units choose which unit in a stack they are attacking
d)airlift workers, leaders
e)dams, dikes; redirescting, controling rivers
f)war should be a last resort
g)"iron man mode"
h)better score system

23)
a) forces of nature: no aliens
b)forigne aid
c)some bluring between goody huts and barbarian camps
d)military base: out of city barracks
e)seaport: out of city harbour
f)tunnel: reduce move cost of mouantians
g)terrain improvements at sea
h)start new game at the begining of XXXX age
i)scenarios: the world as it was in (whatever year)
j)irrigation only necessary if a tile isn't getting enough RAIN
k)herds of animals as units
l)in the real world it was civil wars, wars of independence that limit expansion not corruption
m)a civ isn't really out until all it's people are assimulated
n)smooth functions insted of intigers
o)if a palace costs so much why can it just jump when the city is captured?
p)keep the end game replay in the hall o fame
q)multiplayer cooperative: controling one civ with different roles for each

@Suki like i said: Need to know the post
I see all page with 40 posts...

18) post 681-720
a) Battlefields tactics: planning and Control of “battles”
b) Option to train a specific unit: defend or attack
c) Creation of Army without GL
d) More techs and more effects from them
e) Like in Civ2: option culture graphics
f) “And about those "traits" … I think they should develop depending on how you rule your civilization…”
g) Supreme leader be selectable & change the name of your civ in the game
h) Political Leaders Units
i) Military manpower should be created by a increase in population of a city (hope not!!!)
j) Foreign Workers Suggestion (war weariness)
k) Effect from the civilian’s nationality: Majority can build their UU.
l) Bargaining table
m) Barbarians can capture a city (Civ, Civ2)
n) Scotland civ
o) Helicopters move freely
p) SGL: ability to rush tech
q) Option: 2 Player at the same Computer in the same Game
r) Already have too many resources
s) Option: colour civ
t) Specific look for units for different civ group
u) Buildings should be required to build certain units

Security expense.
The civ can put some money in "Home land security" separately then used science ruler. Say up to 10% of domestic income max per turn.

It will cause that cost of operation against country will be multiplied. For example cost of stole technology with no security will cost 500$ with say 1% will cost 1000 with 10% say 10000 and so on. I think some spy operation can not be done with 10% defense.

Also it good to add some kind "kill the president operation" that make one happy citizen unhappy for some period of time in all towns.
The other operation can be terror attack that reduce population on 1 and make 1 person unhappy for same time in one town.

The zero-range bombard given to ranged units in C3C is nice, but it would be even nicer if in C4 it worked on both offense and defense.

In other words, not only could an archer get a free shot at a swordsmen that was attacking, but the archer could take the same free shot if he was attacking the swordsmen. Naturally, unit strengths and costs may have to be adjusted a little to compensate for the advantage that this would give ranged units. Perhaps if both units (attacker and defender) had zero-range bombard, it would cancel out and combat would occur as if neither had it. That way, all industrial and modern units could have zero-range-bombard (except the ones with real bombard of range 1 or more). Combat between modern or industrial era units thus would be the same as C3, but if a modern or industrial unit attacked an ancient unit, the free attack it would get would help it out (even more so if modern units had ROF>1). That would help solve the infamous "tank-killer spearman" problem: not only would the tank's victory chances be improved by the free shot, but so would its chances of winning without taking any damage at all, which is really what should happen base on RL.

I'm not sure how this idea would be implemented with respect to defending stacks and attacking armies. Currently, if a unit with zero-range bombard (unit A) is stacked with something else with higher defense (unit B), and the stack is attacked by Unit C, unit B can take a free shot and then unit C attacks unit B. But what if Unit C (the attacker) also had zero-range bombard, and my zero-range-bombard-on-offense rule applied? Maybe A would get a free shot at C, then C would get a free shot (at B?) then combat between C and B would occur as normal. Or maybe something else. Likewise, if you put a unit with zero-range bombard in an army, it would be neat if that unit could take a free shot whenever the army attacked, even if it wasn't the strongest attacker and thus the main part of the battle was fought by a different unit. That would encourange a nice mix of units in armies, for example, a pikeman-swordsman-archer army could defend at 3, attack at 3, AND get the archer's free shot whenever attacking OR defending. Thus, that combo would be more powerful (and more interesting) than a simple pikeman-swordsman-swordsman or pikeman-pikeman-swordsman.

My first post, BTW. I've been lurking here for ages but I've finally decided to share a thought or two.

Originally posted by Zenon_pt
@Suki like i said: Need to know the post
I see all page with 40 posts...


oh, now I understand what you mean, sorry abotu, that, I've never adjusted the number of posts per page on mine.
I've done up to post #460 (I've been viewing it with 20/page)

and now I'm going to take a break for a couple of days, I've got mid terms coming up.

Another idea for C4 to help address the occasional loss of a tank to a spearman (or some such) would be to find ways to reduce the number of spearman (or any ancient units) that are still around late in the game. The obvious way to do this is simply to program the AI such that its better about upgrading old units, but an idea I had that might also be neat is to have units upgrade automatically after a certain amount of time. When a new tech is researched or traded and a new unit type becomes available, upgrade cost could start off pretty high (maybe quite a bit higher than in C3) to simulate the expense of upgrading to state-of-the-art. Each turn, the cost to upgrade could decrease a small amount, say by 1 gold. When the cost reached zero (many turns later) then all old units would be upgraded for free. The only question would be what to do with units that weren't in a city with a barracks. Maybe barracks could be changed to allow half-price upgrades (quarter price with Leo's Workshop) and any city could upgrade a unit, although that still wouldn't help units that weren't in cities at all when the upgrade cost reached zero. Maybe units fortified out in the wilderness could still be upgraded but at the same time would lose a hitpoint (go from veteran to regular, regular to conscript, etc). Anyway, the designers could work out the details, the main point is that if upgrades became cheaper and eventually free once the tech providing the neww unit was no longer a recent acquisition, then there'd be a lot fewer ancient-era units hanging our in modern times. People would complain less about bad luck with the RNG if these tank-versus-spearman situations occurred less often.

yes

1. Scottish CIV
2. Battle copters that can move freely
3. Atomic bomb that can only be dropped from bombers and is weaker than ICBMs
4. Cargo planes
5. Pirates that are amphibious and can be loaded into Privateers
6. Steam powered transports

How about a specific land-unit (Raiders) that can only be loaded onto privateers? These would be able to attack and pillage enemy cities and units, but not take/capture the cities.

I would like to see a limitation on how far a Raider can travel from the privateer. This could perhaps be handled in a similar way to bombers in that a Raider effectively has to 're-base' (return) to the privateer at the end of each turn. To represent this properly, the Raider would need an uncharateristicly high movement which would allow it to both move, attack and return within the single turn.

My feeling is that any Raider which doesn't end it's turn on the privateer would be destroyed (hunted down, captured by pursuing milita etc).

trob

Originally posted by Khan Quest
I like the complimentary luxury idea, Plechazunga.

ya, & gold should be collectable (" or this prob' wouldnt work")

Originally posted by trob
How about a specific land-unit (Raiders) that can only be loaded onto privateers? These would be able to attack and pillage enemy cities and units, but not take/capture the cities.

I would like to see a limitation on how far a Raider can travel from the privateer. This could perhaps be handled in a similar way to bombers in that a Raider effectively has to 're-base' (return) to the privateer at the end of each turn. To represent this properly, the Raider would need an uncharateristicly high movement which would allow it to both move, attack and return within the single turn.

My feeling is that any Raider which doesn't end it's turn on the privateer would be destroyed (hunted down, captured by pursuing milita etc).

trob

i've used raiding parties in my civ3 scenarios [nationality hidden] if the hidden nationality is present - the other civs will hunt them down. want to limit movement? give low numbers to movement.
the distance from carrier might be hard to do, but might be good.

This might have been said before, but:

Basically, extending the political abilities, externally and internally.

New Diplomacy Features such as:
Treaties to reduce the # of ICBM and Nukes
Treaties to reduce the pollution created.
UN. And with it the chance to sign global treaties, like the two above
Founding a pact of more than two nations such as the NATO which will be rather long-lasting.
Selling Military Units.
Offering Military Support without declaring war, example: US gave aid to Great Britain in WWII.
Treaty to make borders between two neighboring nations unchangeable. So culture filps would not be possible.
Having the choice how long treaties do last, don't make it a static # like 20 in Civ III.
Ability to declare your status/opinion in a war. Such as neutral or favoring one party
Your gov't influences your reputation => lower reputation for fascism. Civs are less likely to support fascist gov'ts in a war/generally. Democracies have a higher reputation



Internally, there are some things I have thought of, too:
[list]
Your type of gov't has more effect on your society. Whereas your are more likely to have demands in a Democracy to reduce pollution, in Feudalism or Communism you might experience a city or region to split off from your nation. THis would generate a new Civ, named after the first city to split off. The UN or other nations, however, have the choice whether or not they want to accept that new nation. If yes, you're in trouble, because you lose reputation being at war. if not, you're likely to be supported in a war to annect the lost territory.
In a split off the new nation should have about 90% of your tech knowledge. So they won't be inferior, but not as strong as you.

Production tile improvements: being able to build, for example a barracks as a tile improvement outside of a city. That barracks could build millitary units, draining shield points from the nearest city.

There should be some sort of news or gossip source, that tells you where wars are being fought, when major cities are taken or many units destroyed in a turn, etc. Something like the one in Master of Orion II. Units that cross continents on railroads should not be able to move further or attack afterward, the unlimited movement should cost the turn.

For the release of Civilization IV, the next installment in my most favoritest game in the whole wide world, would you pretty pretty please (with sugar on top) bring me the following? developers who consider play-by-e-mail as more than an afterthought.Civilization is the ultimate PBEM game. I am sick and tired of seeing PBEM get treated as nothing more than a sideshow. That means:[list=1] Admins should have an easy-to-use interface for changing other players' passwords, kicking players from the game, converting players to AI opponents, and converting AI opponents to player positions.

Players should be able to see their opponents' moves that took place prior to their turn, just as if they were playing a "live" game. I understand that this requires significant coding; like I said, treat PBEM as something other than an afterthought.

A maximum number of players of more than 8. Make it at least 12, preferably 16.

And while we're at it, it would be nice to be able to sort the list of "Load Games" by date modified, so that you could easily find what the most recent turn is.

Heck, why not offer a server-based game mode similar to what Massive Assault uses? When a player's next turn becomes available, he or she is sent an e-mail indicating as such. The player can then download the game from the server (perhaps hosted by GameSpy, or the admin's PC) using the Civ IV interface. He or she plays the turn, and then uploads it back to the server. The admin could set the maximum number of reloads allowed per game, and the game itself would enforce this. The admin would be alerted when a player had not played his or her turn within a specified time limit.[/list=1]
heihojin

Railroads should only be buildable from within a city tile "to" an0other city. Right click worker, select "build rail to" and select your city.

This eliminates having unrealistic rail systems covering every inch of your civilization.

Becaue there will be less rails, there will need to be a way to make up for the loss in commerce currently enjoyed by the rail happy players of Civ II. This can be offset by allowing railed tiles to generate 2 commerce instead of one.

Also, during wartime (not during peace) players should be able to 'evacuate' or shift population from one city to the nearest city by use of rail. Historically lots of people have been moved to safety during wars, especially during WWII. One city move per turn to keep things fair and to scale and only to a connecting city via the most direct route. i.e. no passing through cities to reach one farther away.

Rails should have vastly increased movement allowance, but not instantaneous travel across continents. A limit must exist somewhere.

Update the graphics. Get some ideas from SimCity 4 for ways to manage terrrain. I would prefer the computer randomly generate some terrain, then draw the hexes (not squares) over that. Then each hex would have the attributes of the land feature which fills up the most area within the hex. Squares kinda suck.

Let players start without civilization traits and instead let them research the traits they want (two maximum) based on their starting positions. Historically, civilizations were the way they were largely because of the geographical area they populated.

Improve the AI. A LOT of Firaxis resources should be put towards this. The AI should make decisions based on his current situation (the AI should be limited somehow by fog of war) and past relationships. The AI shouldn't be so predictable that you can force him to attack you by canceling your spice deal and leaving a close city unprotected. If you have had trades in the past, it should be remembered, and respected.

I have lots, lots more but I have to go to work.

-E

Seems to me that SODs being able to roam about in En territory for ever is a bit off and that being able to land units in an En area and leave them there for decades is also far fetched. It might work for the ancient units which can live off the land but once you get to gun powder you must have supply lines. You don’t go far on one tank of fuel and one load of ammo.

To implement the concept in the game the rules need to be simple,so how about:

1/ Only effects gunpowder plus regular type units.
2/ Units cannot trace a line of supply through more than 2 En squares.
3/ Supply can be traced through ROP areas.
3/ Out of supply units lose 1 hit point per turn (may be make this a 50% chance)
4/ To mitigate this, supply units could be available these would have a 2 square radius which would act as Fn area for supply. This would allow a chain of them to be formed.
5/ Supply units (SUs) should be expensive, slow, weak and support a given number of units.
6/ The number of SUs could be limited to the number of FN cities.

If you wanted to go further down this route then requiring a line of supply (LOS)back to the capital could be required - in the same way you need an LOS to a resource or a luxury. This may stifle game play a bit much though.

Play balance may change as SODs would need more management. A RoP rape would be harder as anyone building up a supply chain through the AIs territory would be easy to spot for the AI. And their strategic placement could be spotted and acted upon.

If this is not new, I appologise. I scanned through and could not find anything.

Maybe this has been suggested before, but... why not open a CIV 4 wishlist thread directory?
Because I see that with all the excitement, we created an immense thread containing ideas covering totally different aspects of the game.
This way, the administrators could organize the wishlist into different threads in the directory each one specific to a game aspect (for ex. city management, diplomacy, etc), making it easier for us to see where we want our comments put (and if anyone has already suggested it) and for the future civ4 devs to look for requests concerning specific aspects, without having to read through a 15 page thread.

Ok this is brilliant. It is a good way to spice up the modern age. Ok think SDI it is a simple concept in civ 3. But what if we expanded on it in civ 4 now not only is getting SDI important, it is also important to get dominance in space. Like have stalites be individual units that can fire lasers at enemy satalites making taking away there ability to wage war in the modern era. Smart bombs wouldn't work neither would SDI and other things that you can think of (you're the developers after all) I think that this would add another layer of gameplay and make the modern age more interesting, the gernal consensus being the modern age is very boring.

Okay, here's some ideas which I think are different from the usual that I've read. (sorry if i duplicate something, but i haven't read all *40* pages and I think I've gotten the jist of what most people want to see that's new.)

My basic theory is that not all cultural development is positive, and not all territory is benevolent.

the tech tree has more branches than listed, and not all of them are consciously chosen. ..so here goes:

"Bad" Scientific Advances

You should have a certain chance at stages in your cultural development of acquiring backward cultural developments. this might have advantages but should affect your economic output, scientific development, or reputation. And once you get it, you have to research specific cultural advances in order to make it obsolete. Civ is not all sweetness and light. Sometimes you should have to *drag* your civ past things like The Inquisition, Chattel Slavery, Fundamentalism, Pogroms, Lead Paint, Asbestos Construction, and Doctine of Humors.

"Invisible" harmful resources

Sometimes you have things in your environment that spread disease, and until you reach the appropriate scientific advances you can't detect them or get rid of them. In fact, you can trade them to other cultures without meaning to. Terrain should be able to possess Tsetse Flies, Deer Ticks, Zebra Mussels, Japanese Beetles, or Dutch Elm Disease, or maybe a generic "crocodile" or "hippo" or "wolves" resource will eat some of your food or kill workers. You would eventually have the ability to destroy certain resources if necessary, but a global culture and international trade really does have risks. It should be possible to acquire Smallpox, Yellow Fever, or Syphilis. I think having population points dropped from your cities is just not complex enough a dynamic. Some things you should have to discover Medicine, Microbiology, Genetics, or Ecology to combat.

New Terrain Types

Cave overlay, canyon, distinct types of forest, glacier, coral reef, rain forest (not just "jungle"), "dead zone" overlay on polluted water squares should all be possibilities. non-improvable permanent "waste land/love canal" should also be possible if your pollution level is too high or % of undeveloped land within your borders is too low. it is simply not realistic to cover every square inch of your nation in concrete.

"Bad" or "Dangerous" Terrain

terrain overlay Quicksand, terrain overlay caves, temporary overlay lava, polar ice caps (not just tundra), should all do damage to wandering units. certain wild environments are dangerous until tamed.

Unique Terrain (natural wonders)

Source of the Nile, Mt. Everest, South Pole, Grand Canyon, Uluru, Continental Divide, Northwest Passage, should all have unique benefits, count as victory point locations, or enable to building of a small wonder. Having Niagara Falls or Mt. Fuji or a Ganges River tile should provide benefits.

Darn it lost my post.

There should be culture specific resources, like Indian tea. Yours is enabled when you build a small wonder, and how much of it you have (to trade) depends on your population, since it's something produced by your culture. This would add some variety and prevent civs with lots of territory or luck from becoming unrealistically self sufficient. Sure you might have ivory, gems, dyes and silks, but your people also want Chinese porcelin, American jeans, Iroquois arrowheads and Japanese Engrish t-shirts.

I am back

continuing where i left off (post #460)

page

24)
a)Map highlighter, markers, notes
b)you are what you eat but more effects growth than just food
c)people produce culture
d)joint research projects
e)democracy not=capitalism
f)units may surrender rather than die
g)more realistic food production/terrain

25)
a)cheat mode: switch sides- http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=70298
b)auto upgrade for very obselete units
c)merge barbartians with villages
d)governmental production adjustment based on product
e)civ bonus depending on the leader head

26)
a)multiple time resoloutions. war and peace mode, in peace turn=year, at war turn=month
b)oppresive justice slider
c)leaders that give unique bonus'
d)baloons/zepplins
e)the first SDI: air burst your nuke in the enemy nuke's space-time path to destroy theirs before it gets to your city
f)neutron bomb: extra damage to population, less to infrastructure. Cobalt bomb: extra radiation/pollution
g)optional improvements that help and harm
h)culture group UU's

27)
a)negative civ traits, (like SMAC +2 -1)
b)supply/logistics lines
c)cultural positive feedback from cities within the same border; culture mass, city clumps, provinces.
d)national bifurcation mergers
e)speed of communication major factor in corruption, make function asymptotic
f)captur barbarian town
g)biological, chemical weapons
h)modern entertainment
i)compexity layers

28)
a)force multiplying units
b)the US didn't switch to communist to go to war with Iraq

29)
a)if the world worked like civ the Zulu won by diplomatic victory!
b)and to counter leaders,royals : assasins

30)
a)the un again: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76615
b)colonies mature into cities
c)geothermal plant: requires volcano within city radius!
d)laws and constitution
e)complimentary unit bonus's: A gets a bonus if in the same tile as a B

31)
a)multiculturalism
b)unit design
c)defensive fortifications

goodnight! ended at #620

==the US didn't switch to communist to go to war with Iraq==

No, not communist exactly.

post 621+

32)
a)stone age
b)stone as standard resource
c)not just trade of resources but finished products
d)prospector unit
e)auto mark on map location where leader created
f)labourers in the towns and worker units *are the same thing*
g)decrease efficency/travel time from city

33)
a)wonders get obseleye why not buildings (ex:aqueduct-->water tower)
b)improoved relations between civs with same govs traits

34)
a)undifferentiated reformable units
b)atrition damage, logistics

(-#680)

see it's almost complete

You should have the choice of treaties being open or secret.

This is terribly off topic but is there a way to wake all my units of a particular type? Workers, cavalry, etc? I'm playing fully patched PTW and I don't have the manual because I bought the vanilla disk used.

hi, haven't played Civ long enough to offer any truly insightful ideas, but here are a few:

1. First one is more of a convenience thing... i think the science meter should auto-adjust on the "last turn" before a tech is discovered, so as not to waste money. additionally, this auto-adjust should occur when your civ is at the 4 turn minimum (i.e. bring the science output down so that it is still 4 turns but you aren't wasting money).

2. Bring climate into the equation when it comes to military performance. The best example i can think of is how the winter ended up being a crucial advantage to the Russians during WWII when the first stage of the German invasion dragged out longer than anticipated. This later on impacted Stalingrad to a huge degree.

Basically, if the game can take into account the climate and conditions of the Civ's native land. When the military invades a Civ with a different climate or conditions, they are less acclimated to it than the Civ that is defending, and thus would have weaker performance. i think this would help balance out some of the disadvantages of people who start off in areas that are all dessert or tundra or jungle, compared to people who manage to settle on nice grasslands.

Instead of spending time adding more features onto what is essentially a good game, or in some cases completely changing the ethos of the game, (it seems some suggestions Ive read aren't suggestions for CIV4 but for a completely different game).
I would suggest that more time is spent ensuring that there are less bugs and the need for patches. If I bought a car and the wheel kept dropping off, I would expect the manufacturers to be more interested in making sure the wheel doesnt drop off and less time thinking about what colour they could make the new wheel.
I played CIV 1 +2 extensively and as everyone is aware there is a certain amount of time invested in each play of the game, resulting in either subsequent victory of defeat. I find myself unable to bring myself to play CIV3 as I consider the potential 20+ hours and the subsequent crashing of the game and 'saved' games too much to waste. Before everyone starts saying 'Have you got the latest patch', no I havent as I dont have access to the internet in sufficient capacity in which to down load it (or anything else). This does not make me a bad person, but does mean I have a faulty product. So inclusion I would prefer that the makers produce a robust product rather than adding features, the game is not an accurate simulation of the world and the interactions between nations, adding endless features will not make it so, it is however a great game, when it works.

Originally posted by Suki
i)give more buildingd possible bad side effects







I agree. For example, currently, universities benifit a city with 50% extra science. Instead make it maybe 60, or 70% extra science, but make it so that they also produce more war W.

prisoners of war! Being able to trade prisoners at the end of hostilities. Also genuine alliances where campaigns of liberation could be fought!ie like the allies liberating france during ww1 ww2 .That is cities won in the conflict could then be handed back to the country they originally then this would be the basis of a permanent alliance joining the two nations together diplomatically forever. Like a mutal protection pact but forever!

Also as a footnote instead of armies/units fighting to the death the option to surrender armies/units should be availible. At certain times surrendering could increase/decrease war wearyness,ie:surrendering without a fight,bad, refusing to surrender in a hopeless situation and fighting to the death sending many men to their needless deaths ,bad!Putting up a brave defense holding the enemy back before surrendering,good! Also having heros would be a good thing with a unit that has heros in it fighting harder and defending better!

Heros are great in fantasy games but I think they would be a big mistake in Civ. The GML are close enough.

Aircraft should be able to rebase to any other city/airfield that's connected by railroad, and should be carryable, although not launchable, by transports.

Firstly, and purely cometically, something (eg a small building / farm) on the main map to show that a tile is being used by the city. It will give the impression that the cities suburbs are spreading out as the city grows as opposed to one condensed mass of building at the city core.

In addition the option to play an entirely ficticious civ with selectable traits, leaderheads and UU's. A lot of balance would be needed here but if each trait / UU had a points cost (along with say start units and gold) and each difficulty level had a points allowance it could be controlled. For example:

I play on "total wuss" level which gives me 100 points (to pick a random number!):
Khevland (my new civ's name) is agriculteral (40 points, its very useful) and commercial (30 points, not as useful).

In addition I choose to start the game with:
A second settler (25 points, a second start city would be very handy, but your first settler is always free)
A warrior (5 points).

As a last option I choose Brenusses' leaderhead, cos I think he looks cool!

A lot would of attention would be needed to set this up in a balanced way but additional sciences, units, traits, whatever could be bought. Also varying points cost for traits could allow for lower difficult level players to start with 3 traits or a second setter or large scouting force. Don't know how this would mesh in with the other computer civs though (although if you could customise them as well....?).

It would rely on player "honesty" not to creat a super civ to smash a load of puny computer states, but then if that's how you get your jollies.... After all I am currently playing on the 2nd easiest difficulty level (this game is, like, HARD man!! Especially for the casual player like me!).

Ah, one last addition thought here , a Hardcore / Casual setting as well as difficulty. On civ 1 and 2 I could thrash the computer on lower levels and more often than not win on the hardest levels. Civ 3, on higher levels, needs a more mathmatical / analitical style of play. Every city / tile / unit / slider needs to be checked, ajusted and maximised every turn. I'm just not that... precise. Also I tend to play for an hour or two on most but not all nights when I come back (often stressed and drained) from work. So high attention to tiny details leads to only a couple of turns a night and more stress and drainedness (a new word! Cool!). On the other hand I would not want the more hardcore players to be side-lined for my gameplay. This is not just a difficulty issue. I hope this last idea makes some sence. It does to me.

Originally posted by a4phantom

Aircraft should be able to rebase to any other city/airfield that's connected by railroad, and should be carryable, although not launchable, by transports.

I agree.
I would go further:
1. mult- levels of transport.
2. land transport that can only use road/railroad [must use road flag]
3. 'carries air units' flag changed to 'can carry air units' flag, 'can launch air units' flag [means can land air units also] , and seperate air units transported capacity.
4. 'caries nukes' flag chaneged to 'can carry nukes' flag, 'can launch nukes' flag and seperate nuke transport capacities.
5 . seperate capacities for foot units on all transports [ a standard naval transport can haul maybe 2 tanks but more than that foot units.]
6. make it possible to have ship that holds an air unit that hold an armoured personnel carrier with some infantry in it. a vehicle rail transport that can carry nukes, air units, small naval vessels, limited to rail/road

but then these ideas come from a guy whose princess just died from the plague....

Originally posted by genghis_khev
Firstly, and purely cometically, something (eg a small building / farm) on the main map to show that a tile is being used by the city. It will give the impression that the cities suburbs are spreading out as the city grows as opposed to one condensed mass of building at the city core.

In addition the option to play an entirely ficticious civ with selectable traits, leaderheads and UU's. A lot of balance would be needed here but if each trait / UU had a points cost (along with say start units and gold) and each difficulty level had a points allowance it could be controlled. For example:

I play on "total wuss" level which gives me 100 points (to pick a random number!):
Khevland (my new civ's name) is agriculteral (40 points, its very useful) and commercial (30 points, not as useful).

In addition I choose to start the game with:
A second settler (25 points, a second start city would be very handy, but your first settler is always free)
A warrior (5 points).

As a last option I choose Brenusses' leaderhead, cos I think he looks cool!

A lot would of attention would be needed to set this up in a balanced way but additional sciences, units, traits, whatever could be bought. Also varying points cost for traits could allow for lower difficult level players to start with 3 traits or a second setter or large scouting force. Don't know how this would mesh in with the other computer civs though (although if you could customise them as well....?).

It would rely on player "honesty" not to creat a super civ to smash a load of puny computer states, but then if that's how you get your jollies.... After all I am currently playing on the 2nd easiest difficulty level (this game is, like, HARD man!! Especially for the casual player like me!).

Ah, one last addition thought here , a Hardcore / Casual setting as well as difficulty. On civ 1 and 2 I could thrash the computer on lower levels and more often than not win on the hardest levels. Civ 3, on higher levels, needs a more mathmatical / analitical style of play. Every city / tile / unit / slider needs to be checked, ajusted and maximised every turn. I'm just not that... precise. Also I tend to play for an hour or two on most but not all nights when I come back (often stressed and drained) from work. So high attention to tiny details leads to only a couple of turns a night and more stress and drainedness (a new word! Cool!). On the other hand I would not want the more hardcore players to be side-lined for my gameplay. This is not just a difficulty issue. I hope this last idea makes some sence. It does to me.


i agree another choice from main game : the user choice. choose exiting leaders/king units but UU could be chosen.
how about 200 pts and :

20 pts per trait, 40 per UU, 10 points per civ advance given initially, 5 each for flag unit and kings, 10 each per settler, worker, scout units, 20 per other land units, 30 per naval unit, [50 per air units]

i love it...

kind of makes up for my losing my princess to the black death...hehehe

This wonder would allow you to connect (with a railroad) land tiles that were separated by one coastal tile.
Could be a bit tricky to program as the game would have to ask you which two tiles you wanted to connect at the time you build the wonder. Even though the Chunnel connects England with France, I'd probably want the Wonder restricted to tiles in my own territory. The Chunnel could be destroyed by pillaging either of the two connected land tiles.
Great wonder or small wonder? Your call.

Workers should be able to build a "dock". If none of your cities touch the coast, but you have a road link to it, you could build a dock and then your cities would be connected to the marine trade.

As a possible addition, docks could enable cities built one square away from the sea to build ships.

How about an option to be able to do a full install, so you don't need to put the CD in to play?

Choose what cities counts in city limit. It's annoying that puny city in horrible territory hat was taken from enemy or just marks border raises corruption in normal city.

Possible solution: rename courthouse to magistrate and count all cities wis magistrat as nearer to capital than any city without magistrate.

So, you may just don't build magistrate/courthouse in "worseless" city.

I think that the actual dificulty level system is not very good.
It will be better to make the AI smarter instead to give him advantages like now (half production cost and so on).

Originally posted by hahntsak

20 pts per trait, 40 per UU, 10 points per civ advance given initially, 5 each for flag unit and kings, 10 each per settler, worker, scout units, 20 per other land units, 30 per naval unit, [50 per air units]

i love it...


I love it too:) 17 advances + 4 settlers rocks:) Strt game in middle ages with republic - what could be better?

I think trade must be MUCH more profitable. Thruogh history many civilizations have grown immense because of rich trade possibilities... Maybe the whole trade system must be changed, maybe more like the trade system in the brilliant game Caesar III.

Also...
the ability to besiege enemy cities! this will starve both citizens and troops. this will also ruin the soldiers MORAL, which makes them weaker in combat.

(I must apologise if this have been said before, i didn't read all the 800 previous posts...)

SIEGES!!!!!!

Stupid Brain! :cringe: Why did I not think of that!!!!!

sausnebb, you are a genius!!!

May be an attack option for armies or stacks of 4+ units? Effects -1 pop / turn & -1hp per unit or death of 1 unit per turn? Harbours would to be blockaded in the usual way and airports would need to be free of defending fighters and covered by air superiority (historically the Germans were able to keep Stalingrad, admittedly poorly, held while the luftwaffer (sp? sorry Germany!!) were able to keep it supplied).

But you can do seiges. Surround the city (blockade or pillage all roads out) with troops and ships and resources and luxaries won't be able to get in. Squares held by enemy troops can't be worked, causing starvation and production loss. The problem with seiges is only that Civ does not incorporate a resupply model for units or the ability to move food from city to city.

I agree about cutting cities off from airsupply however.

First of all, I'm posting it in the All Other Games forum because there is no Civ4 forum...yet. Second of all, it's not too early to start posting things like this. In fact, if a company has announced they are working on a project, it could be too late to make a wish list.

Multiplayer Enhancements

I don't think you get the full effect of playing Civilization when you dumb it down to Regicide mode or double tile output; therefore, my multiplayer enhancement ideas focus on Play By Email and Hot Seat.

The first thing that these modes need is TURN REPLAY! Many have asked for this to be added in patches to Civ3, but to no avail. It should be put in Civ4 from the outset though. After you play your turn and send it, the game should save all the moves after your turn, and replay them in sequence for you at the beginning of your next turn. This way, you will know what attacked and killed you where, just like in single player.

Many games have online support for free. Check out almost any real-time strategy game if you don't believe me. I think it would be good to have YourEmail@civ4.com addresses. To get such an address, you would have to buy Civ4 and set up your civ4.com email through the game itself. Only people with the game could have these addresses, and it would allow PBEMs to be played entirely within the game itself (no more saving, going to your email, attaching save file to email, and sending). I think this, along with turn replay, would drastically increase the number of people that play Civ online.

There should also be two options for starting a multiplayer game. The first option would be to have no Game Manager. With that, the computer would just randomly (and hopefully fairly) place resources and starting locations. The second option would be to have a third party Game Manager set up the game. This Game Manager would not actually play in the game, but would simply be able to set it up and make sure the map was fair. He would have an admin password and could kill off civilizations if needed as well as performing other functions that are necessary for a Game Manager.


Governments

If you look around the real world, you'll see that almost no 2 governments are exactly alike, although you might refer to both governments as democracies, there will still be some slight differences.

I think Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri's social engineering system should be adapted to the Civilization Series. There are many different ways to divide up the choices.

Ruling Body:
Elected
None (each issue voted on by the citizenry)
By Birth
By Qualification (officials test and work their way to the top)
Official Chaos (essentially an anarchy period that takes place when changing the way your officials are selected)

Economy:
Economic Chaos (essentially an anarchy period for your economy that takes place when changing your type of economy)
Free Market
Command
Barter
Feudal

Etc.

Above is an incomplete short example of how it would work. The main thing is that instead of simply choosing monarchy, feudalism, republic, etc., you would actually get to mold your own government. Each choice would have certain advantages and disadvantages to your society, though some may have many more advantages than others.


Civilization Specific Traits

Some people don't like civ-specific traits while others love them. For this reason, Civ4 should include an option to totally disable civ-specific traits, attributes, and anything else that might be made Civ-specific.

Personally, I love civ-specific traits and think they give the game character. I think it should be expanded to effect terrain. For instance, maybe the Egyptians would get an extra shield out of flood plains. The Vikings could get an extra shield from coast tiles. The Inca could gain an extra food from hills. Etc.

I think there should be more attributes than just 8 (Militaristic, Scientific, Expansionistic, Religious, Industrious, Commercial, Agricultural, Seafaring). I don't know what the others should be, but I'm sure some people out there have good ideas for additional ones.

Civilizations should have more than just one unique unit. Each civ could have 3 or 4. If you really wanted to do it right, you could fully customize all the units for every civilization, though that would require tons of work, thought, and art.


Corruption & Linking Corruption to ICS

First of all, any city that lies within the same cultural boundary as your capital should get an automatic decrease in corruption - regardless of distance from your capital. Cities that are not on the same continent as your capital should get an automatic increase in corruption. A road connection to your capital should decrease corruption. A sea route by harbor should decrease corruption. An air route by airport should decrease corruption. It should all be cumulative.

Different technologies should decrease corruption. Writing, television, computers, and other techs that enhance communication should reduce corruption on a civ-wide level. By the time you get full technology, it should be possible to have almost no corruption in your nation.

ICS is known to mean Infinite City Slew, and if you don't know, this is basically a strategy by which you place lots of cities very close together and it maximizes production while basically taking the challenge out of the game.

I think ICS could be shot down easily if like in Civ2 and Civ3, you didn't allow cities to be placed in adjacent tiles. If 2 cities were placed with a single tile between them, corruption and waste in both cities should be multiplied by 3. This would be cumulative, so if you had 4 cities all with a single tile between them and the other 3, then it would be corruption = corruption * (3*4). If a city had 2 tiles between it and the next city, then you would multiply the corruption by 2. This would also be cumulative. If the city had 3 or more tiles between it and the next closest city, then there would be no corruption penalty multiplier. (When I refer to corruption [loss of commerce], assume I mean both corruption and waste [loss of shields]).


Combat

Many strategy games have rock -> paper -> scissors combat models. I think that would greatly enhance the Civilization Series. Civilization is supposed to be a strategy game, not a math contest. When you have simple numbers deciding combat, then you turn the game into a math problem. I can beat you simply by producing the single fastest, strongest unit (tanks). What counters tanks - other tanks with some air support? It isn't very strategic because I basically win if I can make more tanks than you. If I can make more tanks than you, then I could also make more tanks plus support units than you.

The neat thing about Civilization is that you can also use terrain as part of the rock -> paper -> scissors strategy. You can't do this very effectively in real time strategy games (other than ranged unit height bonuses). For instance, mounted units might get a bonus on desert, plains, and grasslands while suffering penalties on mountains and hills. Infantry could get a bonus on mountains and hills. Artillery type units could also get a bonus when attacking from high ground (mountains and hills). Certain types of specialist units might get attack bonuses against other types of units. For instance, Marines could get a bonus against standard infantry, standard infantry could get a bonus against tanks, and tanks could get a bonus against marines. That's just a possible example, but not a recommendation. My point is that the possibilities are limitless and I think they could really enrich the game. The important thing is to give every unit a counter and a purpose. That is what causes units to be built. Many units are never built in Civ3 because while they may have a purpose, another unit probably serves that purpose and another at the same time. So it is more valuable and you just skimp on the other unit. If you ensure that every unit counters at least one other unit and not more than one, and that there is at least one unit, and not more than one, which can counter it, then you can ensure that there is a reason for every unit.


If you've read this far, thanks. I hope they make Civ4 the best Civ yet. :)

There is a thread in the civ3 forum for general discusions for civ4 thoughts.

Which I have merged it with this thread. ;)
- Matrix

Oops...my bad.

Multiplayer Enhancements

I don't think you get the full effect of playing Civilization when you dumb it down to Regicide mode or double tile output; therefore, my multiplayer enhancement ideas focus on Play By Email and Hot Seat.

The first thing that these modes need is TURN REPLAY! Many have asked for this to be added in patches to Civ3, but to no avail. It should be put in Civ4 from the outset though. After you play your turn and send it, the game should save all the moves after your turn, and replay them in sequence for you at the beginning of your next turn. This way, you will know what attacked and killed you where, just like in single player.

Many games have online support for free. Check out almost any real-time strategy game if you don't believe me. I think it would be good to have YourEmail@civ4.com addresses. To get such an address, you would have to buy Civ4 and set up your civ4.com email through the game itself. Only people with the game could have these addresses, and it would allow PBEMs to be played entirely within the game itself (no more saving, going to your email, attaching save file to email, and sending). I think this, along with turn replay, would drastically increase the number of people that play Civ online.

There should also be two options for starting a multiplayer game. The first option would be to have no Game Manager. With that, the computer would just randomly (and hopefully fairly) place resources and starting locations. The second option would be to have a third party Game Manager set up the game. This Game Manager would not actually play in the game, but would simply be able to set it up and make sure the map was fair. He would have an admin password and could kill off civilizations if needed as well as performing other functions that are necessary for a Game Manager.


Governments

If you look around the real world, you'll see that almost no 2 governments are exactly alike, although you might refer to both governments as democracies, there will still be some slight differences.

I think Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri's social engineering system should be adapted to the Civilization Series. There are many different ways to divide up the choices.

Ruling Body:
Elected
None (each issue voted on by the citizenry)
By Birth
By Qualification (officials test and work their way to the top)
Official Chaos (essentially an anarchy period that takes place when changing the way your officials are selected)

Economy:
Economic Chaos (essentially an anarchy period for your economy that takes place when changing your type of economy)
Free Market
Command
Barter
Feudal

Etc.

Above is an incomplete short example of how it would work. The main thing is that instead of simply choosing monarchy, feudalism, republic, etc., you would actually get to mold your own government. Each choice would have certain advantages and disadvantages to your society, though some may have many more advantages than others.


Civilization Specific Traits

Some people don't like civ-specific traits while others love them. For this reason, Civ4 should include an option to totally disable civ-specific traits, attributes, and anything else that might be made Civ-specific.

Personally, I love civ-specific traits and think they give the game character. I think it should be expanded to effect terrain. For instance, maybe the Egyptians would get an extra shield out of flood plains. The Vikings could get an extra shield from coast tiles. The Inca could gain an extra food from hills. Etc.

I think there should be more attributes than just 8 (Militaristic, Scientific, Expansionistic, Religious, Industrious, Commercial, Agricultural, Seafaring). I don't know what the others should be, but I'm sure some people out there have good ideas for additional ones.

Civilizations should have more than just one unique unit. Each civ could have 3 or 4. If you really wanted to do it right, you could fully customize all the units for every civilization, though that would require tons of work, thought, and art.


Corruption & Linking Corruption to ICS

First of all, any city that lies within the same cultural boundary as your capital should get an automatic decrease in corruption - regardless of distance from your capital. Cities that are not on the same continent as your capital should get an automatic increase in corruption. A road connection to your capital should decrease corruption. A sea route by harbor should decrease corruption. An air route by airport should decrease corruption. It should all be cumulative.

Different technologies should decrease corruption. Writing, television, computers, and other techs that enhance communication should reduce corruption on a civ-wide level. By the time you get full technology, it should be possible to have almost no corruption in your nation.

ICS is known to mean Infinite City Slew, and if you don't know, this is basically a strategy by which you place lots of cities very close together and it maximizes production while basically taking the challenge out of the game.

I think ICS could be shot down easily if like in Civ2 and Civ3, you didn't allow cities to be placed in adjacent tiles. If 2 cities were placed with a single tile between them, corruption and waste in both cities should be multiplied by 3. This would be cumulative, so if you had 4 cities all with a single tile between them and the other 3, then it would be corruption = corruption * (3*4). If a city had 2 tiles between it and the next city, then you would multiply the corruption by 2. This would also be cumulative. If the city had 3 or more tiles between it and the next closest city, then there would be no corruption penalty multiplier. (When I refer to corruption [loss of commerce], assume I mean both corruption and waste [loss of shields]).


Combat

Many strategy games have rock -> paper -> scissors combat models. I think that would greatly enhance the Civilization Series. Civilization is supposed to be a strategy game, not a math contest. When you have simple numbers deciding combat, then you turn the game into a math problem. I can beat you simply by producing the single fastest, strongest unit (tanks). What counters tanks - other tanks with some air support? It isn't very strategic because I basically win if I can make more tanks than you. If I can make more tanks than you, then I could also make more tanks plus support units than you.

The neat thing about Civilization is that you can also use terrain as part of the rock -> paper -> scissors strategy. You can't do this very effectively in real time strategy games (other than ranged unit height bonuses). For instance, mounted units might get a bonus on desert, plains, and grasslands while suffering penalties on mountains and hills. Infantry could get a bonus on mountains and hills. Artillery type units could also get a bonus when attacking from high ground (mountains and hills). Certain types of specialist units might get attack bonuses against other types of units. For instance, Marines could get a bonus against standard infantry, standard infantry could get a bonus against tanks, and tanks could get a bonus against marines. That's just a possible example, but not a recommendation. My point is that the possibilities are limitless and I think they could really enrich the game. The important thing is to give every unit a counter and a purpose. That is what causes units to be built. Many units are never built in Civ3 because while they may have a purpose, another unit probably serves that purpose and another at the same time. So it is more valuable and you just skimp on the other unit. If you ensure that every unit counters at least one other unit and not more than one, and that there is at least one unit, and not more than one, which can counter it, then you can ensure that there is a reason for every unit.


Sorry if I repeated anybody's idea, but if I did, that just reinforces their idea.

Just reducing time between turns

Originally posted by branko
Just reducing time between turns

Depends on your map size, no of civs and cpu speed.

I want revolutions and instead of barbarians in the modern ages there could be Revolutionists and they get rebels for units, i would also like to see barbarians and revolutionists be able to capture cities and make new units and start their own CIV

what i think would be a nice addition is the creation of a new technique, say infiltration. you send a unit for training for a few turns, after getting a technology that enables you to do this, and he can move thru squares with enemy units without attacking and just proceed. This counteracts cheap players who garrisson massive troop buildups in all squares on some bottleneck. the skill should become less effective with a large number of troops, so as to keep realism

-Day and night time effects
-Weather systems; Would affect a units performance and even kill units! (Russian Winter)
-An option to have the units look as it is with Civ 3 OR to shrink them down and actually turn them into an army that would mix with another units during battle! And have the units proportional to the city.
-Full 3D graphics! (Sure it would be even more difficult to make custom units, but the average Civ player (Including me) can't make a Civ 3 unit to save their liv