At the end of my Monarch thread I had mentioned that I planned on playing on that level again. However, I've had a change of heart and decided to move up a level to Emperor. I figure if I can score 28000 with the automated workers that I (shouldn't have) used in that game, I can do okay on Emperor by actually micromanaging them this time.

Anyway, the settings are rather typical: warm/wet/pangaea/5billion years with 8ai. I did enable sedentary huts this go around to try and accelerate the tech pace some. The faster I can get Riders, the sooner I can be done with the AI.

The below image is a screenshot of my first map for this level attempt. The tile limit is 3839, IIRC. I generated a few maps in the 3900 range, but none had a start position, much less opening area, quite like this.

The lone city probably looks deceiving. I didn't think I could afford wasting time on a settler, I built four warriors (two explorers, two mp's) and went straight to work on the Pyramids. In a few turns I'll be dropping towns like crazy, each with a granary from the start.

I've met seven of the eight AI. As anticipated, they've rushed ahead of me tech wise, due to the huts. The Mongols seem to be my closest neighbor :(, so I'm keeping them at bay with gpt deals on techs until I can afford embassies and ROP's.

Once I discover the map, I truly hope it makes sense to wipe out Genghis first. I still owe him big time from my first game of Civilization I many years ago.:rolleyes:

An interesting strategy. At least you can quit if you don't get the pyramids and you won't have that much time invested.

And look at all those cattle and wheat tiles!

The screenshot I took was taken two turns after completion of the Pyramids, so that mission is accomplished. The problem facing me now is that there's no Iron anywhere to be seen around me and I'm playing the Chinese! It's tough to walk away from this map, though. As you said, look at all those cattle and wheat tiles!

Duh! If I could see I would have seen in your screenshot that you are already working on a settler.

Looks like you will be building a long road to iron once you find it. Sounds like you might need a few more explorers. In my first emperor game I played Persians and couldn't get iron - I know exactly how you feel. No iron = no immortals = short game.

From the screenshot you also appear short on luxuries - or did I miss them too?

Well, there's a pair of furs in the last two forest tiles at the northwest end of the woods...that's about it.

I finally built enough cities to afford the purchase of Republic. This screenshot is right after the anarchy subsided. I immediately started generating enough gpt to buy the rest of the requisite Ancient techs to get into the next age.

As you can see, I'm packing in my cities tighter than sardines. It's making the most out of decreasing space, and I'm settling the new ones primarily in the direction towards the Ottomans. They've got Sun Tzu and the Great Library. Hopefully there's Iron somewhere along the way...

I guess I should point out one clarifying detail on the minimap. The dull yellow/orange splotch to the east of the box (me) is the Ottoman territory. Since my last update, I have purchased the techs up through Chivalry and found a singular source of Iron between the Ottomans and myself. It looks like I'll be able to claim it before they do.

To be honest, I'm really embarassed and kind of intimidated about this start. Both exploratory warriors I put out before the Pyramids got smacked down by barbarians and neither got more than a tech or two. I'm thinking I should have output a Settler instead. I'm behind in techs and territory. I also can't get out of my head the fact that I've never won a game on Emperor...ever. (Beta testing C3C doesn't count, I think, considering the game was by nature broken.)

On the other hand, I have beaten Deity, and I did just score big on Monarch. Combine that with the fact I'll have Riders momentarily and I see no reason to abandon this game...yet.

Very interesting strategy on the Pyramids gamble. I'm quite curious as to how this will end. I do think the lack of luxuries will be a problem though...

Well, I can't tell you how this particular attempt is going to go because I've decided to ditch it. Having only two luxuries and only one source of Iron is a really bad position to be in.

So, I've gone back to generating maps. I do plan on trying the Pyramid gambit again. This time, however, I'm not going to enable barbarians. For starters, it'll hopefully slow down the AI tech pace some (although I'll likely hit Riders about the same time regardless). Furthermore, with no huts to raid, there will be little need for explorers. That way I can crank out a Settler before the Pyramids. Hopefully, I can get a third and maybe even fourth Settler out of town two before the Pyramids complete construction.

I think the Pyramid gambit would prove far more successful if I can start my settler flood with three or four cities instead of one.

I'm still China on Emperor, warm/wet/huge. However, I specified no barbarians this go around and I also switched to Continents, rather than Pangaea. The tech pace is far more comfortable. I'm hoping that not only will this not leave me behind tech wise, that it was also possibly delay (even slightly) the AI getting out of Despotism, which should mean more room for initial expansion before I have to switch over to conquest.

Here's a screenshot of my current go:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/screen31.jpg!

The domination limit is 4020 tiles and I have two luxuries. The wine is visible to the west of the capitol (512). My second city (511) is sitting on top of spices. The two workers are building roads towards gems to the north and incense to the northeast, where my third settler is heading. Given the ICS I plan on implementing, four luxuries should be plenty helpful!

The screenshot is dated the very turn I finished the Pyramids. Since at the very least Darkness (and others I'm sure) are interested in knowing how the Pyramid gamble pays off, I'll post another update regarding date/city count.

Originally posted by superslug
I also switched to Continents, rather than Pangaea.

That's a switch. Most of my games are continents. It's just since I started exploring the high score HOF that I switched to pangaea. With continents, the game can be two phases - control your continent, then control the other(s). I think this is much more manageable to win on any given level but may affect your score. Specifically I wonder how are you going to get stacks of units over to the other continent. I usually use airports, but IMHO that tech comes pretty late for a top-scoring HOF effort. Ships will take resources that could be used for war units.

I hope it works - good luck.

You bring up some excellent points regarding continents, Zerksees. I haven't traded for a full blown world map yet, but based on my contacts, I'm guessing I'm on the larger continent since I know five nations. That implies three others elsewhere.

As far as moving stacks across water, I usually build a port or two at the narrowest strait and then start rushing a boat every turn...

Since I've decided to finally abandon my habit of 'targeted/limited' worker automation with this game, I'm currently questioning one of my other old habits, that being the razing of all AI cities. I'm curious what everyone thoughts are on this, whether it's better to raze immediately or keep and redistribut between conquest and milking. Just so you know for contextual purposes, I go to war before Steam Power (Chinese Riders), so reoccupying territory immediately with Settlers is out of the question.

......on Razing cities: DON'T. ;)

(Each city is at least 9 territory points towards your Milking score...........you can always abandon/raze/resettle those cities AFTER the Domination Limit has been [nearly-] reached.)

Now a Fast Finish game MIGHT be a different story. ;)

Originally posted by zerksees

Specifically I wonder how are you going to get stacks of units over to the other continent. I usually use airports, but IMHO that tech comes pretty late for a top-scoring HOF effort. Ships will take resources that could be used for war units.
I hope it works - good luck.

You can send a settler and a leader in a boat to another continent as early as possible and rush your palace there... Once you have conquered your continent, place your entire army in one single city and gift this city to another civ. Your army will be teletransportated (or should it be "teletransported"? :confused: )to your capital :D

Originally posted by Bremp
You can send a settler and a leader in a boat to another continent as early as possible and rush your palace there... Once you have conquered your continent, place your entire army in one single city and gift this city to another civ. Your army will be teletransportated to your capital :D

Holy $#!+:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :goodjob:

Originally posted by Bremp


You can send a settler and a leader in a boat to another continent as early as possible and rush your palace there... Once you have conquered your continent, place your entire army in one single city and gift this city to another civ. Your army will be teletransportated to your capital :D

That is wicked! :goodjob:

You could gift it to the civ you are about to attack and take it right back the next turn.


Superslug: I would not raze those cities right away. If needed, I would selectively raze them once you have fast replacements for the cities and lots of cash to rush settlers or workers out of the old city (or if you need to raze them to avoid domination).

I guess it makes sense to keep them then, it just means I'll have to build more workers since I'm used to getting freebies by the hundreds...and sometimes thousands. If I find any of them sitting on top of Iron though, I will likely burn those particular ones to the ground...

@SUPERSLUG: "If I find any of them sitting on top of Iron though, I will likely burn those particular ones to the ground..."...........EXCELLENT example of an EXCEPTION! :goodjob:

Originally posted by superslug
I guess it makes sense to keep them then, it just means I'll have to build more workers since I'm used to getting freebies by the hundreds...and sometimes thousands. If I find any of them sitting on top of Iron though, I will likely burn those particular ones to the ground...

Just put those cities to work building workers!

I've just been informed by the computer that Sun Tzu's Art of War was completed in the same city that already possessed the Great Library. Talk about painting a huge bullseye target...lucky for me it's within striking distance of my current borders. :)

It's now 890ad in my game, and I have to admit, I've just about given up on this even making the HOF. Honestly, at this point, I'm not even sure I'm going to win, much less get a high score.

The Pyramid gambit I described earlier in the thread worked wonderfully for my Chieftain and Monarch HOF entries, but on Emperor, it's just too slow. Despite snagging five luxuries, having Greece as a first opponent was painful. Those damn Hoplites tore my Riders up. I did eventually reduce Greece to one city, but the price was steep.

Now, I'm going against the Celts with Riders, while they have Muskets and Cavalry. I did get America, Russian and Arabia allied against them, but I'm still in very poor position. I've gone back to automated workers and razing cities, but I don't feel an ounce of regret over these 'bad' habits since I'm now playing for pure fun.

I figure the only chance I have left is a suicide charge up to the Great Library...anyway, here's a save if you want to have a look:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/superslug890ad.sav

I should have just made another run on Monarch...:wallbash:

I am back in business! :band: American Cavalry had softened up the defenders in Richborough tremendously and made it very easy to take. I know have the Great Library and Sun Tzu's! The GL slingshot me from Engineering all the way up to Military Tradition and Theory of Gravity! By selling accumulated techs to the AI, I was then able to purchase Magnetism from the Celts.
:eek: :rotfl: :lol:
I tried gifting/selling the three Scientific civs up to the Industrial age, but they all generated Nationalism. Oh, well, I'll have Steam Power in 19 turns.
:thumbsup:
I plan on using that time with a Settler flood to claim the swaths of empty territory created during Celt War I (currently at peace). I'm also going to send out two boats to finish off the remote Greek towns. After that, I'll deautomate workers in order to utilize resource disconnect and pile up Cavalry faster.
:thanx:
A happy thanksgiving indeed! I can't possibly convey how happy I am this game may be HOF yet, considering I turned down the chance to spend the day with family only a few hours away in order to stay home alone and play Civ! Yes, I guess I'm a little hard-core...

Okay, I was just up in General Discussions and reading yet another corruption thread. Bamspeedy posted that one of the ways HOFr's generate tons of cash is by making all of their specialist citizens taxmen. Damn, this was news to me...

Having city governors manage moods is yet another 'bad' habit I'm trying to break with this game, but I've been making mostly scientists. Are taxmen really that powerful? Is anyone here doing this?

For crying out loud, what other tricks and strategy's am I missing? Keep in mind this isn't a newbie crying out for help, I've used RCP, I've added Palace jumping to my repertoire, the only nonpopulation improvements I build are marketplaces, I road every tile...

Mind you, I'm not asking anyone to give up their secrets. I'm just a good player trying to become a great player...

If possible, I make my specialists taxman, yes. I find them to be more helpful than scientists, but that's just a gut feeling, no hard facts...

I'll give you one secret: Ottomans. Sipahi make all the difference in the world. They can easily dominate the middle ages as well as the first part of the industrial age, giving you plenty of time to conquer the world. Plus they give a well-timed GA.

Glad to see you back in business Superslug!

About specialists, I generally:

1) Don't use any unless I either need them for happiness or all tiles are worked.

2) If I need one for happiness, and I can avoid disorder by just having one non-entertainer specialist, I make him a taxman.

3) If a food surplus is resulting in extra citizens, I usually assign entertainers first, until all working citizens are happy. (For score.) After that I set any further extras to taxmen. In corrupt towns which need entertainers and don't have marketplaces, I slowly build a marketplace. When the town eventually gets its marketplace finished, the entertainers can flip to become taxmen.

4) I generally use taxmen instead of scientists, just because I can always use more gold. But if I want max speed research and can't get it (i.e. four turn rate) then I'll assign scientists. And if I want a 40 turn research then I'll assign one scientist.

Gentlemen, I highly appreciate your insights.

In regards to the game, I completed research of Steam Power in 1110ad (which I guess isn't a bad date to procure that tech). I don't have coal sitting inside my borders, but a former Greek city taken by the Babylonians right outside my border does. I'm going to attack them and take it, banking on the risk that I can sue for peace before they get any forces across from the other continent where they primarily reside.

Greece will likely be exterminated within one turn. They only have two towns left and I've got 4 Riders each ready to smack up their spearmen. Then, I'll be pushing northward through the Celts, Russians, Americans and Arabia.

In regards to domestic progress, I'm building nothing but Settlers and Horsemen. I haven't bothered doing a manual count yet, but I'm hoping that the map is approaching the 512 city count limit, and so I'm pushing towards it as fast as I can. My intention is to use that to choke off AI growth so that no one beats me to claiming land cleared out during my offensive.

This obviously implies my intentions of razing just about everything. After I took Richborough (GL, Sun Tzu) I piled dozens of Riders in it for garrison duty. It culture flipped back anyway...

EDIT: Oh, yeah. All but one of my specialists are taxmen, with the exception of a lone scientist.

one of the best ways to aavoid flipping seems to be to leave the city with just a small garrison inside the city and a bigger one outside to re-take the city if it flips. that's not empirically tested.
overall, the strategy is to leave a bunch of fortitifed units in the middle of the liberated cities where they can strike at any city that flips in 1 turn or 2.

also, if you leave some units behing to guard against flips, make sure they are elite(if you have any extra). cause if the city flips, it will only have one unit defending and it very possibly could be a spearman. could get an easy leader that way.

Game abandoned...

...I'll use this thread for my next attempt as soon as I find a new map, but I'll be tackling Emperor again.

I abandoned because my attempt at getting coal lead to a war against Babylon that didn't go well, I lost a lot of cities. Additionally, despite setting many towns to wealth and creating slews of taxmen/women, I was only able to come up with about five Cavalry per turn. That was slower than I was losing them. Since I saw no upward momentum whatsoever, I decided it wasn't worth dozens and hundreds of hours of my time.

I wish I had more time before work to post further more than one screenshot of my current game, but it should by itself tell you that I'm doing much better than my last game! This is also at Emperor:http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/superslugemperorIII.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/sorryjoan.gif
Okay, I wound up with a spare minute before having to head out the door. (I can surf the forums at work, but no access to Civ itself. :cry: ) Anyway, the one civ missing on the screenshot is India, but have no fear, Ghandi is in with the rest of us!

that city layout looks frightning, superslug:eek: I never got the point of such tight builds -although I've often read about succesful ICS performances, my implementation has been way too weak.
How are you planning to go on with your conquest? the others might get to Infantary too soon, and Industrial Age is easier with large, productive cities -from my expierience, at least.

In regards to the build, what I did in the initial expansion was to lay down my cities three tiles apart. This is the farthest you can space them and maintian contiguous borders without holes or gaps. Once I ran out of room, I started filling in the 'middle' slots reducing the spacing to the minimum. The largest advantage (I think) is that since population chokes up space, I wound up with a lot of specialists (all taxmen). I did at least grab more space than anyone, so I'm #1 in territory. The AI has been paying gpt for ROP's!

This ICS build may not be the best approach overall, but for me, it's good enough for now. Rest assured, I don't pack them in that tight after the reposition phase. The 512 city cap prevents you from going that tight and hitting Domination. It's purely an opening sequence...

In regards to the Infantry, yeah, you're right, I'll probably run into them, but I'm not too worried about them. I do have the Sipahi, remember, and by then their teeth will have been sharpened (promotions).

It's interesting the you mention tech pace though, since that's a primary reason I decided to smack France up. Judging by my end of turn 'conversations' with all the AI, France and Greece alone are doind research. Everyone else is either researching slower, or buying scraps off the table. Between the two, they're averaging 20 turns a tech, so R-Parts should be 40 turns away for them. Of course I plan on it being longer since France should be history then and Greece is next on my list. They've got Sun Tzu's...

And if I face infantry, I face infantry.

EDIT: I guess I should mention that none of the AI have any techs that I don't...

Originally posted by superslug
In regards to the build, what I did in the initial expansion was to lay down my cities three tiles apart. This is the farthest you can space them and maintian contiguous borders without holes or gaps. Once I ran out of room, I started filling in the 'middle' slots reducing the spacing to the minimum. The largest advantage (I think) is that since population chokes up space, I wound up with a lot of specialists (all taxmen).

I'm not so sure that's actually an advantage. After all, specialists only give one point to your score, where happy citizens give 2 points. But that of course can't be possible without a sufficient number of luxuries. So how many have you got?

I don't recall off the top of my head how many luxuries I had at the time, but I think it was only two. The point of going for more specialists wasn't for score, it was for taxmen and income. It was also partially for having that many more towns creating horsemen. I mean, as long as 90% of them are only going to generate one shield per turn, I might as well go all out right?

This is either a prime example of war weariness, a player in over his head, or both:http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/whoops.jpg

That doesn't look very good! Do you have any ideas as to how to solve that problem?

Before I respond to your question, Darkness, I just want to thank everyone who has posted here. I've found the comments, and criticisms especially very constructive!

In regards to the war weariness, I'm definitely going to play a few more turns before deciding on whether or not to abandon, but it's seeming likely. Since I allied everyone against France, I'd take some serious rep hits if I sue for peace. On the flip side though, I really don't want a government collapse during a GA.

910 AD: I think I slid over the crest of the war weariness. A half an hour of switching taxmen to entertainers got things under control and the unhappiness doesn't seem to be increasing.

What's no doubt helping is that I'm no longer losing cities. France's offensive forces seem to have been destroyed. I'm using workers to build RR right up to a city border then go in and hit it with Sipahi. I've taken a half dozen towns in one turn alone as I'm meeting many more spearmen than Musketeers...

I do believe I'm going to continue.

Two observations from you “whoops” image:

Are you doing RCP around the palace? It seems to me that there may be some benefit to this until you jump the palace.

Did you try the luxury slider to end the disorder? It might have been faster than changing all those taxmen to entertainer.

Originally posted by zerksees
Are you doing RCP around the palace?
No, I can't say that I did, which was a major mistake on my part, although, I guess I could still implement it now midgame, huh?

Originally posted by zerksees
Did you try the luxury slider to end the disorder?
Yeah, I did. Weeding out some taxmen proved to be cheaper than jacking up the slider. Besides, I'm kind of enjoying watching the ingrates starve!:lol:

Originally posted by superslug
I guess I could still implement it now midgame, huh?

Better late than never, just depends on what you have built in the surrounding cities. If you don't have much infrastructure there (especially wonders which you can't rebuild), it might be worth it.

If you are planning to jump soon I think it would not be worth it.

I got beat out on Leonardo's by only two turns in this current game. Combine that with RCP, and I'm willing to bet I could have started warfare with a lot more Horsemen to upgrade to Sipahi, couldn't I?

Screw this game...

looking forward to your next game:) I'd probably suggest that you build your cities more conservatively: this should allow you to get some city improvements inside more quickly and the lower overall corruption could allow you to build much more military. This is only my opinion, however -you have more experience with ISC than I do, of course:)

More experience than you with ICS? Perhaps, but you do have the qualification of the top score of the level I'm playing at...

Anyway, what I'll likely try this go around is RCP for my production zone and ICS outside that. Of course I won't go back to fill in 'gaps' until the initial territory rush is over. Whatever the case, I'm going to play openings until I get one where I can beat the AI to Leonardo's...I'll update the thread then.

I've spent days playing out opening sequences, trying to improve my early game. I don't know yet if this particular attempt will prove more fruitful than the two dozen since my last post, but this screenshot should validate considerable improvement on my part! Not only am I the largest current empire, I've got four luxuries!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/heehee.gif

Superslug: Four luxuries is very nice. One question though: How good was the terrain around your start, 'cause 22 cities (by my quick count) is a bit on the low side for 690 BC? Did you have a settler factory or was that impossible? Or do you perhaps have a lot of settlers still on their way to city sites...?
Also one comment: Republic is still 32 turns away, and it's alsready 690 BC. It may be too early to tell, but IMHO your tech pace in this game is too slow and you'll get out of despotism too late to create a really efficient settler flood to grab some extra territory...

But, I may be a bit spoiled when it comes to early game situations. Remember how many retries it took me to get my current monarch level attempt going.... ;)

Is 22 cities low for 690? To be honest, I'm just happy to be outclocking the AI on expansion at that early a date. I'm afraid there's not that many Settlers out and about.

I do have a four turn factory, and that's really an accomplishment for me. You do have to remember that for the longest time I used my Pyramids strategy, rather than granary factories. Doing it "Bamspeedy" style is far superior I know realize.

In regards to Republic, I'm only on 10% spending because everyone else is at the same tech level, so I wouldn't be shocked to buy it from an AI before long (I check with them every turn).

Anyway, this may not be the game I continue on with, but I just wanted to note I've successfully excised myself off the Pyramids...

EDIT: Now that you mention it, Darkness, the terrain stinks. I'm going back to generating maps...

Originally posted by superslug
EDIT: Now that you mention it, Darkness, the terrain stinks. I'm going back to generating maps...

Happy to save you some time... :)

I usually aim to have around 18-20 cities in 1000 BC, so that's why I said I though 22 cities in 690 BC is a bit on the low side. I'm not saying it's bad, but just that I'd like to have more...

Yeah, 90% of territory was either plains or jungle, so...

20 cities by 1000BC, huh? That at least gives me a good hard number to shoot for. I also plan on looking at several games 10ads to get some ideas of where I need to progress to.

To be honest though, I'd like to be able to hit 511 cities by 3999bc, though...

In my current attempt, I'm going to have Military Tradition in 680ad (which isn't too bad for me). I've already got almost a hundred horsemen waiting for the upgrade and the AI is paying me close to 500 gpt for techs and ROP's.

The only problem is, I have to work for ten hours and then go out of town to see my grandparents!
:eek: :cry: :mad: :wallbash: :rant: :suicide:

Okay, I found some time between work and travel to play a few turns. Either I overestimated what distance from a Palace has on the chance of culture flipping, or the Americans are really smoking me in that regard...anyway, see for yourself what happened:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/geez.gif

I just got done researching Military Tradition and made the selling rounds with the AI. Somehow I doubt they know they're investing in their own destruction. I mean, I should have, what, over a hundred Sipahi after the 20 turn deals at this rate?

Maybe it's the city name... not a lot of cultural self esteem being named 472 I'd suspect. ;)

:rotfl:
Funny, I didn't spot that factor in the equation...

I admit 472 isn't a very creative city name, but given how tightly I pack my cities in, if I didn't number them, then before I'd know it, I'd be having towns like New Istanbul 42342342039809257312 or something.

I'm getting Conquests for Christmas, either from my family that day or myself the day after. Now that it's HOF legal, my enthusiasm for PTW has been obliterated...

Until my next thread, happy holidays, merry christmas and death to the AI!