This is an insane idea that just bumped into my head a while ago: We are heading for domination, but we aren't allowed to capture cities by any other means than culture or in making peace. Also, we aren't allowed to raze cities in war, only defend. :crazyeye:

Player roster: [Full]

Rik Meleet
vbraun
gormdragan
bede
Wizard

Level: Regent
World: Pangaea, standard, min water, flat, max opponents (7)

Cultural, Diplomatic and Space Race victories are OFF.

This will be played in original Civ III, version 1.29f.

It has been done before. See Sirian's result in Epic 13 (http://sirian.warpcore.org/civ3/epic13.html). This is doable (for some).

Good luck.

Can you give us details on this game?

Otherwise sounds fun :thumbsup:

BTW, This isnt a sign up untill i see the game peramiters.

this is a cool idea wizard, i wonder if it would be possible to extort cities from war, without capturing any.........

This is an insane idea that just bumped into my head a while ago: We are heading for domination, but we aren't allowed to capture cities by any other means than culture or in making peace. Also, we aren't allowed to raze cities in war, only defend.

It has been done before. See Sirian's result in Epic 13. This is doable (for some).

Be fun to see if five or six of us could do it. I'd like to sign up if it's 1.29, not PTW or Conquests.

Ok, I see it has been done... So why shouldn't we try it again? :D

I don't really have the experience needed to know what to the setting should be... So I need a lot of advice etc.

I think this should be played on Regent, but it sure depends on who is gonna play. Vanilla Civ 1.29f sounds good, too. :)

So, please post hints and "I'm in"-s. :)

If this is vanilla or PTW I'm in.

I have so far been unable to get C3C :(

I suggest we use the Realms Epic 13 rules, as listed in Charis' report. Agreed ?

Sounds good. Regent. I can do that.

Sign me up. :)

Id perfer to do it in C3C.

Hold on a second one of my friends has my Vannila Civ3 CD :eek: I'll have to let him borrow my PTW CD instead.

Ok, I'll update the first post. :)

What do you think of world settings? I mean, continents, archipelago or pangaea and water amount? Etc.

Originally posted by Wizard
Ok, I'll update the first post. :)

What do you think of world settings? I mean, continents, archipelago or pangaea and water amount? Etc.

We should use a Pangea Map. Becasue it might be a little hard to get a city on another continent...

id be happy to play if u will have me, regent is fine

Originally posted by Wizard
Ok, I'll update the first post. :)

What do you think of world settings? I mean, continents, archipelago or pangaea and water amount? Etc. Pangaea would be best; the opponents cities are closer in general, thus increasing the chances of flips. Also our pillaging explorers, which we definetely need, gain access to nearly all pillagable tiles. But personally I detest using a pike / musket / rifle / infantry army as the "safe spot" for explorers to start from, pillage and return to in 1 turn. The AI will usually not attack an army and using armies + explorers that way I consider an exploit. I have no problem with using SoD of defensive units as "safe spots", but not armies.

Some extra rules: We can't abandon, donate or give up cities by building workers in size 1 or settlers in size 2 cities. If we "gain" a city we aren't allowed to starve it down. This is in line with our peaceful attitude to never harm a city. Units can be destroyed at will, anywhere, except in cities.

Please turn off Cultural victory and perhaps Space Race and Diplomacy, although the latter shouldn't be a burden on Regent. We aren't able to recapture cities easily, so we must build up culture and that might cause an undesired Cultural Victory. Space Race victory might come too soon and we have no real possibility to destroy or take over a capitol.

Sounds like a cool idea :cool:. Wish I could sign up but I am up to my neck on SGs and I need to offload a few before I will sign up anymore. :sad:

@Rik

Hehe, this would have been a nice "peaceful" game I might have played. Next time. :D


Change of heart :love2: Sign me up...I'll drop another SG (that has not moved for almost a month).

Wiz,

Bede's in.

How about Standard, Panagea, 20% land, wet, temperate, flat, max opponents, and Monarch?

FYI: The rules for RB-Civ13 (http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/epic13.html)

Ok, gunnertxr and gorm are in. :D

Seems like we got a full roster without even advertizing this in the register SG's- thread...

And let's see... Pangaea, expansionist civ...

Note: I will be away till 11/30

Ok, I'll hold you up until you can play. :)

And the correct player order: (Unless someone wants a change)

Rik Meleet
vbraun (Away until 30. of Nov)
gunnertxr
gormdragan
bede
Wizard (me)

And, as I'm not into making maps, the first one to say "got it" will get to make it and play the first 20 turns and the order will then continue from that. :)

Notice: Strict 24/48 rule applied, if you don't post in that time the turn automatically goes to next person in row.

And, if you for some reason get banned (I don't think anybody here is in danger, but still...;)), please PM me, so I can drop you off the round until you're back.

OK. I'll start.

I'll play Saturday November 29th. I'll generate the map (Pangaea, standard, min water, flat, max opponents) and switch off Cultural, Diplomatic and Space Race victories.

I suggest we also pick our civ randomly (or do you prefer an expansionistic civ?).

Do you want me to post a screenshot of our starting position before I play ? I can post one friday evening (that's in 24 hours).

Any comments or requests are welcome.

random sounds good :D

Looking forward to this SG. :goodjob:

Expansionist would be good, otherwise go for it vbraun, screenshot or no!

Yes, I almost always play random myself, I'm not a good chooser. :)

Hmm... A screenie sure would be nice.

Bede, you mean Rik, don't you? ;)

Oh, and one more thing: We shall be using the Exploit bans also used by LKendter.

Anyone disagree? I think they are good ones.

that includes no worker purchase until after 1000BC?

Umm... nope.

Originally posted by Wizard
Oh, and one more thing: We shall be using the Exploit bans also used by LKendter.

Anyone disagree? I think they are good ones. Can you post a link to them ?

Check this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=67545), second post for instance. :)

Because I was hitted with a :spank: when I wanted to trade for workers during ancient ages in another SG. Good to know.

I have generate the map (Pangaea, standard, min water, random barb settings, random climate/temperature/age max opponents).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Cultural_settings.JPG

I've switched off Cultural, Diplomatic and Space Race victories, and switch off respawn, culturally linked starts and Accelerated production.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Civ_Settings.JPG

And this is what we are:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Start_location.JPG
Not the best start, too many mountains and no luxuries, only 1 bg and 1 game tile.

Do you all agree with these settings ? You have around 24 hours to comment before I'll play.

<edit> I editted away all screenshots, to keep this thread better viewable </edit>

Hmm... Cleopatra should be a good civ, industrious for fast city better making, and the best of them all: religious for cheap temples and cathedrals. :)

The start isn't that bad, especially with our industrious worker. :) I think we can manage it. :) IMHO, go ahead and play the 20 turns.

Preturn:
Choose pottery as our first tech. Move worker to game. Just outside the view there is a luxury; identified by the smily icon. Move settler SE to get the lux sooner.

1 - 3950BC. Found Thebes. Starts temple. I know this is strange, but I think we need culture as soon as possible. It doubles after 1000 years. Max research on pottery.

Worker cuts forest on game tile.

2 - 3900BC. zzz

3 - 3850BC. zzz

4 - 3800BC. zzz

5 - 3750BC. zzz

6 - 3700BC. forest is cleared, worker starts mine.

7 - 3650BC. zzz

8 - 3600BC. zzz

9 - 3550BC. City grows to size 2. Mine build. Road started.

10 - 3500BC. Temple finished. Start work on warrior. Lower science to 70%.

11 - 3450BC. Road finished. Micromanage tiles. Optimize slider.

12 - 3400BC. Optimize slider. Worker starts mine.

IBT We learn pottery. Start research on Bronze on 80%, 0 gpt due in 15. Thebes completes warrior, starts settler.

13 - 3350BC. Send warrior NW to a floodplain area.

14 - 3300BC. Micromanage Thebes.

15 - 3250BC. Mine completed. Micromanage Thebes. Worker starts road.

16 - 3200BC. Warrior climbs a mountain and sees a beautiful 2 river floodplain area. Who needs agricultural trait if you have this ? 8 floodplains in 1 city. Guess where our settler-factory is going to be ?

17 - 3150BC. Thebes grows to size 3. Road finished. Micromanage Thebes to get settler in 2 without shield-loss. Send worker to road towards floodplain area.

18 - 3100BC. Micromanage Thebes to not waste shields. Warrior finds another floodplain area. We won't be short on food. And with a couple of Silks just south our population won't be unhappy soon. Up science from 80% to 90%.

IBT Thebes builds settler. Starts warrior.

19 3050BC. Down science to 80%.

20 3000BC. Warrior scouts the second floodplain area and it is just as good as the first. Also possibly 8 floodplains, and this site has hills as well.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/3000_BC..JPG

----------------------------------------

I took the liberty of creating a dotmap straight away. Red circles are city sites. blue circles are floodplains. Just enjoy it !

---< Anyone hungry ? >--- (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Cultural_Domination_3000_BC.SAV)

Nice work there! :goodjob:

And those floodplains will become two settler factories when we get cities there. :)

Rik Meleet- just played
vbraun- away
gunnertxr- you're up
gormdragan- on the bench
bede
Wizard (me)

If gunnertxr doesn't reply in 24h, feel free to go ahead gorm.

gorm please jump in and take it, i am really busy and wont be able to grab it for a while so thanks in advance

I am rushing to finish GOTM25 today. I can only take it tomorrow.

We'll wait. :) And you even have the almost 48 hours left here, so no problem. :)

lol so who are we waiting for me or gorm?

go ahead and take it if you like. I will pick this game up tomorrow.

Hey Wait im here. Just got back yesturday. :cool:

Anyway would anyone mind if i take the turns?

go ahead. I am still trying very hard to finish GOTM 25, Ottaman just did a ROP rape on me, I am getting my butt kicked.

Poor you... Good luck. :thumbsup:

Please go ahead, vbraun. :)

thanks vbraun, i wouldnt have been able to take it today

GOTM 25 completed. :D

Please slot me back into the shuffle.

You were never taken away from it. :p

Nice to have you back, anyway! :D

Right now Im using the school computer to use the forums :mischief:

So later today ill post a got it and then play. But i might not be able to post them till tomarow.

Got It.

2950BC-zzz
2900BC-zzz
2850BC-zzz
IBT:Thebes Warrior-Warrior
2800BC-Settle Memphis-worker
See Iroquio Scout
Trade Masonry for 8 gold and Warrior Code
2750BC-Begin the Wheel
2710BC-zzz
IBT:Thebes Warrior-Settler
2670BC-zzz
2630BC-zzz
2590BC-zzz
2550BC-See Red Border by Memphis

Sorry for taking so long...

Sry no Screenie.

BTW, We were suppose to take 10 turns right?

>>>>Save<<<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Cultural_Domination_2550_BC.SAV)

i think im up next so got it, i'll give u guys some time for some feedback on what i should do, i have never played this kind of varient so give me a game plan and i'll go at it

Originally posted by gunnerxtr
i think im up next so got it, i'll give u guys some time for some feedback on what i should do, i have never played this kind of varient so give me a game plan and i'll go at it Neither have I, that's what I like about this game. Just do what you think is good. As inspiration; in post #2 there is a link (copied here) (http://sirian.warpcore.org/civ3/epic13.html) to a completed game by Sirian. Read through it and get inspired to do great things !

good luck.

Remember, we don't need to stick to it permanently, but I'm sure it will help a lot reading it. :)

IMHO we should first try to get as much land as possible, then culture and other infrastructure. If you have an other idea, please say it so we can ponder what to do, as it's *quite* important in a game like this.

ok, i read the link, and what i got from it is that we will need big cities and as much land as possible, so i will try to expand as much as i can this game.

i'll post my turns shortly

Turn 1-
-Road near Memphis (we can already build airfields and lookout towers????)

Turn 2-
- Move warrior scout and spot a blue border.

Turn 3-
zzzzzzzzzzzz

Turn 4-
-Thebes - settler>warrior
-Memphis- worker>warrior
-blue border is Germany, they are up iron working but we have masonry so i make the trade

Turn 5-
zzzzzz

Turn 6-
zzzzz

Turn 7-
zzzzz

Turn 8-
zzzzz

Turn 9-
Thebes- warrior> worker(wasnt sure here, decision is overwritable)

Turn 10-
- The Wheel finishes change to Horseback Riding due in 20


The settler is in position to settle near the floodplains like Rik suggested.The Keys to the Kingdom (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Cultural_Domination.SAV)

screenie (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/ourempire.JPG)

Oh no! You played it in C3C or PTW! This is a Vanilla Civ game... Sorry, but you'll have to do all that again...

lol oh man boy was that a big mistake! im going to have to ask for a skip this round im sorry but i used up my free time to play this sg on the wrong version!.

ACK!

No prob, Yndy is always starting his turns on the wrong version of civ in Håkon's SG... So you're not the only one.

Ok, seems like... gorm is up?

Turn 1-
-Road near Memphis (we can already build airfields and lookout towers????)


:lol:
This happened in one of my sgs were the person played in Vannila Civ instead of PTW.

It could happen to all of us. Just a request for Gunner; Your picture is a bitmap of 2.5 MB. It loads all the time and sucking in a lot of time. Can you just remove the "[img ]" parts, so that it just shows the link ?

Like I have done in post #28 ?

IIRC Gorm is going to replay gunner's PTW turns ?

sorry about the turns and the screenshot, i dont know why the screenshot took so long to load, i have posted screen shots before and they were normal

Open the screenshot in paint and save it as .jpg. It gets a lot smaller, around 15 times.
If you then upload it, it's shown fast.

im pretty sure i did save it as a jpeg but oh well.

Got it....will play on Sunday.

Nice. :)

Can some one confirm that i should be playing the save after Rik? i.e., start at 3000BC.

Nope, the one vbraun posted.

Unless it's a corrupt (PTW/C3C) save too.

Preturn:

Drop research to 10%, running 40-turn gambit and accumulating $$$.
Switch research to Mysticism, 2nd tier techs have better chance of being discovered first.

2510:

2470:
MM Thebes to grow and make settler at the same time.

Trade pottery+masonry for alphabet+10g with Romans.
Tried to trade to Iroq but they have nothing to offer (their scout will meet the romans in the next turn.)

2430:
Trade IW+3g for Alphabet with Germans.

Fantastic!!! Iron is just adjacent to Memphis.

Hmm, Iroq discovered IW this turn as well, unfortunately, they only have 9g, not worth our alphabet. Maybe later.

2390:
Thebes makes settler, starts war.
Memphis makes worker, starts war.

Iroq has Alphabet now....should have taken his 9g.

2350:
Nothing to trade.

2310:
Nothing to trade.

2270:
Heliopolis founded, starts warrior.

2230:
Thebes makes war, starts war.

2190:
Nothing to trade.

2150:
Nothing to trade.

Summary

(1) We are up in CB with Romans, tech parity with Germans and Iroq.

(2) We may want to start temples in Heliopolis and Memphis asap.

(3) 40-turn gambit on Mysticism, 30 turns to go.

Next better player.




The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_2150_BC.SAV)

Bede is up.

Nice playing. :thumbsup:

Got it.

Based on what I hear rapid expansion is central to the strategy. Unless I hear otherwise will proceed as writ.

Any tips on MM to keep the expansion going would be appreciated. I always seem to have trouble getting optimum performance when running a rapid growth strategy.

Hmm... Just remember it's 10 not 20 turns anymore. :)

We really need Bwana Jim for this one!!!

Wiz04

Preturn 2150BC
F11 check First in all categories that matter
Diplo check
Iro 7g, 2 cities, has furs but no extra, no techs to trade. Polite
Rome 0g, 2 cities, no lux, no tech to trade. Cautious
Germany 2g, 2 cities, no lux or res, no tech to trade. Annoyed

T1 2110BC
Send workers to irrigate game tile. There's a food bonus there. Warriors explore.

IT Thebes war=>granary.

T2 2070 Dispatch war into fog E of Thebes Check in with Iro scout by ROme. Nothing new in Salamanca. Check with worker near Rome. No new from the Rialto. Industrious workers irrigate game tile. Will MM so granary finishes before next birth. Warriors explore

IT Nothing new

T3 2030BC Warriors explore. Move workers to chop forest at Thebes

IT Memphis War=>temple. Heliopolis war=>temple. Aztec settler/escort pair show up N of Rome

T4 1990BC Contact Monte. Has 3 cities, 0g, lacks cement, letters, and doesn't have a pot to pee in!!
War spots spices in jungle east of Thebes, and I notice iron east of Memphis and silks south of Thebes. But it's also Jungleland out there and no Bwana Jim to guide us thru it. There's plains wheat and iron in foothills south Thebes on coast.

IT Aztec party moves off to north

T5 1950BC Warrior in south spots blue border. War in north spots German spear/sett pair. Say howdy. Otto has wheel and will sell it for 60g and 1gpt. Improves his attitude to Cautious. NObody else has enough money to make a trade worthwhile.

IT Otto founds Hamburg north of Berlin?

T6 1910BC Warrior in south encounters incense garden behind light blue borders. Nothing much happens.

IT Forest logged at Thebes for 10 shield boost to granary

T7 1870BC Start wokers mining grassland. Warriors explore and find horses in far north. Polite Mao will spend 10g for CB. Has 4 cities and 0g now. His lands appear to be desert and flood plains mostly.

IT Disease strikes Memphis. Switch from temple to worker

T8 1830BC Nothing much

IT Disease hits Memphis again!! Should have whipped worker

T9 1790BC Attempt to MM Thebes to growth and granary has probably failed. Send workers to silks south of Thebes and wonder about what do at Memphis. GRR!!

IT Not much

T10 1750BC Start road to silks

Tough start for a high growth strategy game. Hope this meets with your approval

Very humbly submitted (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_1750BC.SAV)

Bede

Looks good, I'll try to get it played tomorrow. Since then, you all have time to give a tip or hint on what to do and when. :)

Please do it, people. Only that way we can manage to play this to a victory. :)

Let Memphis grow a bit bigger and then pump settlers out every 4 ~ 5 turns. We need settlers more than workers and we need culture as second priority. Scouting isn't very important; stay away from military (except defenders) in favor of culture, settlers and science.

And settle in the high food areas. There are still some high food areas north and north-east and south.

Dieases is kind of random and given that we have lots of jungles to the south and floodplains to the north, it is unavoidable. Things will improve :D.

Ok, start playing in a few minutes here... Almost forgot it's my turn to play on this one! :rolleyes:

The turnlog:

Preturn: Check everything to get a good look on where we are going... Seems good. :) Press enter.

IBT: A Roman and Russian warrior appear near Heliopolis.

1725BC: Workers start to build road to silks S of Thebes. Move warriors around...

IBT: Cathy would like to trade Mysticism for Alpha + 30gp, I refuse. No trades with the AI on their turn...

1700BC: :sleep:

1675BC: Warriors roam in unexplored territory.

IBT: Thebes Granary > settler.
Memphis worker > temple.

1650BC: Warriors continue to wander from place to place...

1625BC: :sleep:

1600BC: I don't really know what to do, as everyone already seems to have Mysticism, so I continue researching it...

1575BC: Our cities are now provided with the best silks from the jungles of Thebes! :) The workers decide to make the productivity of Heliopolis better.

1550BC: :sleep:

IBT: Heliopolis temple > settler. We really need to grab as much land as possible...

1525BC: Warriors roam around, road to Helipolis is ready.

IBT: Thebes settler > another, will grow in 1.

1500BC: MM to get settler faster in Thebes, still grow in 1. Settler starts journey to NW growth areas, a warrior is coming top protect it.

Summary: Remember to change laborer back to game tile in Thebes.


Go get those floodplains! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_1500_BC.SAV)

Sorry, no Screenie...

i'm sorry to say this but i cant continue with this sg, it has nothing to do with amount of time or not being interested its just that i no longer have my vanilla cd (havent had it since i bought PTW), sorry for the bad news but i think that this game was a little over my head anyways, i will definatly continue to follow your game as i think it will be a good and interesting one, sorry!

I'm very sorry to hear that gunner. If you do refind your CD, I think you are welcome to play further.

I still appreciate you posting advices. You might not be able to play, but you can still download the saves and see our progress.

thanks, i still want to be as much a part of this team as i can even though i dont have the correct cd!

Sorry that you can't play... Although there seem to be like a real mass of regent SG's around now for some reason...

Rik- you're up!
vbraun- on deck
gorm- on the bench
bede
Wizard- just played

Didn't realise I was up. I'll play very soon. If not tonight than tomorrow night.

Ok, fine for me. :)

IHT. Time to trade. Alphabet + 101 gold to China for HBR. HBR to Russia for Myst + 7 gold. Set research to writing, but on 0%.

1 - 1475 BC. zzzz

2 - 1450 BC. HBR + 77 gold to Rome for writing and contact with the Zulu. Set research for literature; libs provide culture and we might snatch the Great Library. Science upped to 70%, gets lit. in 20, 0gpt.

3 - 1425 BC. zzzz

4 - 1400 BC. Thebes grows to size 4. MM to get settler in 1. Up science to 80%.

IBT: Thebes settler => settler

5 - 1375 BC. Settler moves south.

6 - 1350 BC. zzzz

IBT: message: Aztecs start Oracle,

7 - 1325 BC. MM cities. Elephantine founded, starts temple. Iroquois have worker on offer for 25 gold. Darn LKendter's rules.

8 - 1300 BC. MM cities. Up sci to 90%. -1 gpt.

9 - 1275 BC. MM cities.

IBT Bismarck demands 24 gold. We don't want to fight, my friend Otto. Buy something nice for Mrs Bismarck. He turns from annoyed to Cautious.

10 - 1250 BC. MM cities. Build Alexandria South of Thebes. There is no defense, so starts warrior. North-East scouting warrior spots purple borders. We've found the Iroquois home-land.

-----------------------------------------

All cities are tuned perfectly. Heliopolis finishes settler in 1. Thebes grows in 1 and finishes settler in 2. Thebes can then perhaps start the Pyramids as a Great Lib prebuild or for the Pyra's itself. Memphis grows in 2 (very nice + 5 food) and can then focus on it's temple and become a settler factory. Or put a laborer from irrigated floodplain to mined desert to get temple in 4 and grow in 5; your call.

It's better to not be a hero; take the bullying of the big guys. Pay them. We can't afford to loose build time for a strong army and a war would be very bad. Remember we can't even take our own cities back. That also means don't settle aggressively (yet); that is considered by the AI as a declaration of war. When we are stronger, we will have to settle aggressively later on, but not yet.

Good luck.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Egypt_1250_BC.JPG

----<<<<#### The Save ####>>>>---- (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_1250_BC.SAV)

Roster
Rik- just played
vbraun- you're up!
gorm- on deck
bede- on the bench
Wizard-

I totally agree with Rik. Since we are attempting cultural domination, the culture is key. All we need is defensive units and lots of culture. If bullied, fold. There is no shame in "loaning" them money. We can get them back when we take their cities culturally.

Hmm... I said in an earlier post that the worker buy is the only rule we are NOT using on that rulepack... But, can't be changed...

Good work, BTW. :goodjob:

Gormdragan:that includes no worker purchase until after 1000BC?

Wizard:Umm... nope.

I concluded: Nope no worker purchases until after 1000BC. Oh how I'd loved to have bought that worker.

Nope, so it does not include it... :p

Whatever. Now we know it can be done.

So, who is up? Seems like vbraun has forgotten this, so feel free to take it, gorm, if he hasn't posted when you see this.

The earliest i can pick this game up is saturday.

Well, then you get it unless vbraun plays first.

Wonder where he is...:confused:

Its my turn?

Whoops...

Ill post a got it message later today.

Ok, so, gorm, wait until braunie (;))has played.

Got It.

:hmm: Seems like braunie forgot this or forgot to post, so, gorm, feel free to play if he hasn't posted when you see this...

Preturn:

Everything looks good, press enter.

1225:
Heliopolis makes settler, starts settler.

Buy a worker from Iroq.

1200:
Thebes makes settler, starts prebuild for GL (As per orders of the good Dr. Rik :goodjob: )

1175:

1150:
Chinese discovered Mathematics.

1125:
Memphis makes temple, starts settler.

Germans have mathematics, no trade possible.

1100:
We discovered Literature, starts Mapmaking. I picked Mapmaking because we can pick up all techs from our GL. But Mapmaking allows us to get galleys earlier, more exploration = more cities, more exploration = more $$$ from WM trades. Drop tech rate to 10%.

I will try to hang on to our monopoly on lit to ensure we get enough lead on our Wonder build.

1075:
Pi-Ramesses is founded, starts warrior.

Zulus have discovered Philosophy. Still I do not trade.

1050:
Romans discovered Mapmaking. I cut research completely.

1025:
Buy another worker from Iroq.

I swap Heliopolis settler production to library, we are under aggressive culture pressure (Romans settled nearby).

1000:
Alexandria makes war, starts temple.

Summary
(1) Thebes will riot once it grows (in 3 turns, if you MM). We have 2 choices (a) MM Thebes to work on the mined hill instead of the irrigated game and stop Thebes's growth; or (b) allow Thebes to grow and up lux rate to maintain happiness. I would vote for option (b) because we have no other use for $$$ until we can get to republic. The next player can veto.

(2) Heliopolis will be under aggressive culture pressure (not by much) so I swapped to library. Another alternative is to make a spear to garrison Thebes and allow Thebes to have an extra MP to grow. The next player can veto.

(3) We have a settler in the north, I wanted to found a city where he stands. This city would give us horses (not that we need it but just in case, I don't plan to go to war) and fur.

(4) We are behind in tech, behind by Mapmaking, Philosophy, Mathematics, but we kept our monopoly of Literature. Personally, I would keep our monopoly since our GL will get us the techs in due time.

(5) We should start planning our GA, and since we do not plan to go to war, one possiblilty is Sistine Chapel (Religious) + Hoover (Industrious). I am not familiar with Wonder-induced GA so I hope others (Rik? Wiz?) could enlighten me.

(6) My choice of settler cities had been going after luxuries, we will have fur and spice online soon enough.


The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_1000_BC.SAV)

Pyramids is Industrious too, BTW.

Nice work there. :)

Rik Meleet- on the bench
vbraun- disappeared (?)
gormdragan- just played
bede- you're up!
Wizard- on deck

Originally posted by gormdragan

...(5) We should start planning our GA, and since we do not plan to go to war, one possiblilty is Sistine Chapel (Religious) + Hoover (Industrious). I am not familiar with Wonder-induced GA so I hope others (Rik? Wiz?) could enlighten me.


Hmm, we could also build the Pyramid, it's both industrious and Religious, we'd get a GA with that...

building Pyramids gives a GA too early, while we are still in despotism.

Originally posted by Wizard
:hmm: Seems like braunie forgot this or forgot to post, so, gorm, feel free to play if he hasn't posted when you see this...

i was getting to it... I was up in another sg... Oh Well...

Our GA:
We could kinda pre-build the pyramids with the GL (they cost the same) and if we cant get to a rebublic in time we build the GL and wait for our GA later.

Horses:
We need those!!! How else are we suppose to sacre them into giving us citys??? If i need to ill elaborate a litlle more.

We need horses indeed, but they have low priority. I wouldn't go for horses yet, it's nice to have them but they aren't as important to us as they would be in a military game.

Defenders are more important than offenders, at least in and after the land-grab phase.

Yes, build importance should IMHO be: settlers > culture > workers > defensive military > other stuff.

I totally agree, getting the horse was an added bonus I wanted together with the fur lux. The priority was the lux when pushing the settler north. We are pushing for cultural domination so having a big army is not going to help. The only help it gives is to protect against flips and in that case, it doesn't matter if it's a war or a modern armour. We are trying to avoid war at all cost.

Yes, avoid war and give bullies what they wamt if it's reasonable, but don't get us into war if possible!

Got it.

Will try and play tonight.

04 1000BC-

Tour the map. Check on thebes Leave citizen in forest for +1gpt.

IT Caesar calls and offers to trade his WM and 17g for our WM Leave the offer open to see if anybody else will offer more

T1 975BC Open round of map trading
Caesar offers WM and 17g for WM-no deal yet
Monte has no map and no gold
Iroquois will offer Math, TM and 12g for WM
Catherine the Cheap offers TM and 2g
Mao offers 8g and TM
Shaka offers 2g and TM
Otto has no maps and wants 75g for Math
After a little bargaining Hiawatha offers MM and his TM for WM and only 60g Take the deal and go around the table again.
Monte will offer Math, his TM and 2g for MM Sure, pal and thanks
Catherine the Cheap is still way too light in her offer
Caesar offers WM, his TM and 21g for WM-Done and thanks, Julie
For WM and 55g Mao offers Philosophy and TM-no deal yet
Otto will offer WM, his TM and 41g for MM-You bet Otto
Now back around the table with the enhanced WM
Monte has nothing to offer
Hiawatha the Generous offers WM and 17g for WM-Done
Catherine steps up to Mao's offer of 19g for our WM-I'll take the 19g and her TM and buy Phil from Mao or Shaka
Shaka holds out for WM and 55g while Mao comes down to 50g and WM for Phil and his TM-Mao, you're a pal
Hiawatha will give 40G, WM and his TM for Phil-Take the money and run

The net effect of all this horse trading is we still have the monopoly on Lit, but are at tech parity and have another 57g in the Treasury Start a 40 turn run on Currency (net cost 120g if it succeeds, and a chance at another round of trading)

Found Giza on hill between fur and horses on the river and start warrior (due in 10, if war completes someplace else and can be moved in time will switch to temple)

War near St Pete explores some more and war south of Grand River does same Ditto for war south of Hangchow

IT

T2 950BC MM thebes to increase gpt and spt and keep growth in 2. Gl due in 38 Wars explore some more

IT

T3 925BC Explore and road

T4 900BC MM at Elephantine to increase fpt and gpt Increase lux to 10% to avoid riot in Thebes Treasury at 250 and 24gpt
Start another round of map trading
Monte sells us his TM and WM for 15g
Hiawatha offers 15g for WM-Call eBay and start auction
Catherine the Chintzy is broke and so is Julie Mao is being a skinflint and Shaka has only 7g. Otto has no money but will trade his WM and TM for our TM Will try this and see if the enhancement will lead Hia and Mao to raise offers Mao is still a cheapskate and Hiawatha won't sweeten his offer. I'll take the 15g just to get back to even then try Shaka and Mao again. Shaka and Mao give us a 100% return on investment with Monte by ponying up 15g between them.

T5 850BC Memphis produces settler and goes on high carb diet Settler heads for flood plain wheat E of Memphis

T6 825BC Germans start GL and Iro the Oracle Pi-R comletes war starts Temple and war is dispatched to cover frontier towns Decide to spend a little treasure on embassy in Berlin (31g) GL will finish in 67 turns at current 6spt, pop3, growth in 4, no granary or other improvements and only two BGs(both mined), Sci at 100%, 9gpt, 0 in treasury, 1 sw and 2sp in garrison Decide to investigate neighbors a little further to see if any low-risk deals for Lit are available
Monte has it, Hia doesn't and has no money to spend for it, Cathy the Cheap is still broke and can't read yet, Julie is broke, Mao has Lit and money, but won't even give us much for WM, Shaka lacks both literacy and liquidity.

A little tour around the map suggests that Beijing at pop1 represents no threat to GL should they decide to build it

T7 800BC Snooze

T8 775BC Move workers around

T9 750 BC Zulu in Bapedi and Chinese in Beijing start GL Found Byblos in flood plain between Pi-R and Giza Start temple

T10 730 BC Our people want to build FP Giza builds war starts temple Russia starts Pyr Explore some more
Shaka wants 140g for TM and CofL.
Cathy wants 140 for CofL
Mao wants 130 for CofL We have many monies (402g, 24gpt) so we do the deal. Everybody else is broke so can't broker it but I think it's worth it to keep parity
Shaka will pay us 9g and his TM for our WM and I want a look at Bapedi anyway, so I do the deal. I get 8g back right away from Mao and his TM for our WM. Bapedi is a pop1 fishing village on the coast with no improved terrain If Hiawatha beats Monte to the Oracle Monte may cascade to the GL and if the Russians beat Shaka to the Pyr Shaka may cascade to the GL in Zimbabwe Zim is pop4 and the terrain is heavily mined. Moscow is pop2 and mostly irrigated grasslands. These are not probable as Salamanca is only pop2 with 2 mined grasslands and 1 hill while Tenowhatever is pop4 with mines.

I think the GL is ours!!

Around the rest of the empire all appears well. We need workers however The neighbors are all friendly and we have 288g, 24gpt in the Treasury and tech parity with the two leaders (Mao and Otto)



Here it is (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_730BC_BC.SAV)

Looks nice. :goodjob:

Any clues on what I should do next?

I'll play tomorrow, so this is a got it.

Rik Meleet- on deck
vbraun- on the bench
gormdragan
bede- just played
Wizard- playing

Ok, playing soon...

Here you go, my turnlog:

Preturn: Check stuff to see where we are going.... press enter.

710BC [1]: Not much assign workers and warriors roam in the yet unexplored lands... 20 turns to the GL.

IBT: The Aztecs start the GL too. In a size 1- city...:rolleyes:

690BC [2]: Nothing to report.

670BC [3]: :sleep:

IBT: Memphis settler > another one.
Alexandria Temple > settler. IMHO we should settle those jungle areas and use our industrial trait to get rid of the jungles fast.

650BC [4]: 17 turns till we get the GL. Warriors roam. Settler from Memphis starts her journey toward the Eastern flats between our and the German lands. There is still a lot of area to settle, so let's not stop it too early.

630BC [5]: Change Memphis from settler to worker, we need them as IIRC gorm stated earlier.
Check for trades:

Monty doesn't have CoL, but has only 7 gold to trade it for, so no deal.

Bizzy doesn't have it either, and he doesn't have anything worth it to trade...

Unca Hiawatha doesn't have CoL or Lit, and hasn't got anything to trade, no deals possible.

Shaka has tech parity with us. He has also wines, but it can't be traded.

Cathy has also got tech parity with us, but doesn't have anything we don't.

Mao has also got tech parity with us, has 106 gold (!)and Incense + furs. No deal possible, because our trade network consists only of our own cities...

Julius hasn't got Lit on CoL, but he hasn't got anything to trade, so no deal here either...

IBT: Elephantine Temple > worker.

610BC [6]: :sleep:

590BC [7]: Wonder for a while if I should take a warrior to travel with our great settler, but then decide to take the risk and go undefended...

570BC [8]: Worker assignments.

IBT: Memphis worker > settler.
eliopolis lib > worker.

550BC [9]: 12 turns to the GL! The newly built worker starts road to our eastern cities, which are currently unconnected...

530BC [10]: :sleep:

Summary: We currently have a settler travelling NE from where she stands now, there is a nice area of grassland and floodplains there. 11 turns until we get the GL. :)

:egypt: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_530BC.SAV)

OK,

I have no option to check the save, but this is an I got it.
I have no time to play tonight; I will play tomorrow evening (earliest).

Please give me your thoughts.

We should settle the areas near other countries borders quite aggressively IMHO, so we get the max area of land and culture.

I wonder if that is actually wise at this point of time, remember AI does not react well to aggressive settling, we may or may not be in the position to start that.

I am not intending to settle aggressively yet. I intend to grab the last free lands and build some culture/workers/defenders (not neccisarily in that order). When we have an opportunity we can accompany a settler with 1 or 2 defenders to go out settling (more) aggressively.

Also when we finish the GL I'd still like to push for to the easiest/quickest obtainable gov. We are Religious so we won't suffer much from anarchy and can switch quickly. When we are in either Republic or Monarchy we can cashrush culture / defenders / settlers and expand further.

Another idea that came to me; we benefit more from a close build than a wide build. We'll loose some opportunity to grow really big cities, but gain simply more cities; that is more temples, more libraries; more culture = safer from flips and higher chance AI-cities will flip. We are nearing the moment soon that we'll need to decide whether to dense-build or to wide build. I'd like some input.

Any ideas from the team? Please post them; I'll play in about 20 hours.

Screenshot for our lurkers:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Egypt_530_BC.JPG

Well, a dense build would be ok, but I think tjhe optimal distance between cities is 2 to 3 squares or so, 1 square is a little too near on a larger scale, it's not a problem with 1 or 2 places, but if we build them all like 1 square away, we'll lose too much production IMHO.

Good point, BTW. :)

Very good point on the dense build. Considering that we are pushing with culture, you are absolutely right. The more cities the merrier. Let me see if I can come up later with a dotmap for a dense build once I head out to work.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Egypt_530_BC1.JPG


(1) yellow, light blue circle, light green circle(or somewhere higher), white square should be our priority. These spots can be settled by AI, so it's a race between us and them.

(2) magenta circle, blue circle, grey circle and light blue square are the next in line.

(3) blue square, orange circle, brown circle, white circle, green square, red squares are aggressively settling so we might want to leave that to the last. (light blue circle is also agressive settling).


Please comment.

IHT. MM Helio to finish worker in 1, Switch Elephantine to settler, Switch Alexandria to settler. Many civs already have Code of Laws. Julius is the only leader who isn't polite, but Cautious. Decided to gift CoL to Ceasar. Jumps to Polite.

IBT: Iroquois declare war on Germans. This is good news as we might get to see some workers for trade because of this, Helio expands.
Helio worker => spear

1 - 510 BC. MM Thebes to get GL in 9 turns. Have to increase lux to 20%. Calling some scouting warriors home; well need them soon enough back home.


2 - 490 BC. German sword near our soon-to-settle yellow spot settler.

3 - 470 BC. Yellow spot is on desert. Move settler in tile W to build on hill, on a river with 5 floodplains.

IBT:
Alexandria settler => worker

4 - 450 BC. MM Thebes, Memphis.
El-amarna founded. Starts Spear.

IBT:
Helio Spearman => settler

5 - 430 BC. Fortify Spear in Helio. It can soon accompany settler.
China has worker on offer for WM + 3 gold. Yes please !

6 - 410 BC. MM Cities. Check for workers and mood-changes in opponents, they are all still polite.

IBT: We connect Iron. China (Polite) demands TM + 51 gold. Mao: no problem, that's what friends are for.
Russians started Great Library. That will be too late my dear Catherine.

7 - 390 BC. MM cities. Elephantine will riot soon. Increase lux to 30%. Iroquois are cautious. Trade their currency for lit + Code of Laws + WM + 180 gold (what he asked for currency). Still Cautious...
Trade Cur to Aztecs for Poly + WM + 1 gold.
Trade Cur to Zulu for WM + 120 gold.
Trade Cur to China for WM + 70 gold.
Trade Poly to Iro for WM + 100 gold. Still Cautious.
Start Research on Republic on 70% -7 gpt. 30 % lux.
Found Hieraconpolis, starts temple.

IBT:
Alex worker => Spear

8 - 370 BC. MM cities. Now Iro and Russia and Rome are Cautios.

9 - 350 BC. MM cities. Iro back to polite. GL in 1.

IBT: We've build the Great Library ! Aztecs, Germans, Chinese start Pyramids, Zulu start Oracle,
Thebes GL => Spearman
Helio Settler => granary
Elephantine Settler => spear
Byblos temple => worker

10 - 330 BC. Lux back to 20%. Research on Republic to 80%. MM cities to get builds as efficient as possible.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Great_Library.JPG

:egypt: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_330BC.SAV)

Looks good, the game. And so does the dotmap. :goodjob:


Rik Meleet- just played
vbraun- you're up!
gormdragan- on deck
bede- on the bench
Wizard- sleeping and watching you play. ;)

My turn already :eek:

Ill post a got it message later.

Ok, no prob. :)

I got it.

I will be on vacation from Christmas until next year. I hope to play at least 1 more turn b4 I disappear. :blush:

Ok, I'll make it so. :) You're up then after vbraun.

Hey braunie, you should play your turns way much faster. :( You shall be skipped, and I'll let gorm take the turns. I'm just trying to keep this going at a decent speed, no offence.

So, gorm, if you have time, please play the turns. :)

Let's give Vbraun one more day. If he does not post by tomorrow, I will play. :D

Originally posted by Wizard
Hey braunie, you should play your turns way much faster. :( You shall be skipped, and I'll let gorm take the turns. I'm just trying to keep this going at a decent speed, no offence.

So, gorm, if you have time, please play the turns. :)

Ive played them. Ill post them in a bit.
sry about the delay :( Ill try to speed it up next time

Ok, no problem. :) I was just trying to get gorm his turns before he goes off for a vacation on Christmas (like me too).

Hey, everybody who isn't here on Christmas & new year should post, so we can see if this game shuld be put on hold or if there is enough players to continue this over Chrstmas holidays...

Bede will be around for the entire holiday period

I won't, I'll be away from the 25th of Dec to the 1st of Jan as far as I know now...

I won't be available during X-mas, but between X-mas and 2004 I expect to be home. I can play a set of turns then, if desired.

The Turns:

IBT: Learn Construction and enter the Middle Ages. :cool:
Membis Settler-Settler
Chisnese start Colossus

310BC Settle Aydes-Temple

IBT: Thebes spear-Libaray

290BC: :sleep:

IBT: Aztecs start Great Wall
Aztechs finish Oracle
Iroquios Start the Pyramids
Zullu start the Greal Lighthouse
Rume starts the Pyramids

270BC: Settle Asyut-Spear
Settle Aurcis(?) - Warrior

250BC: :sleep:

230BC: :sleep:

IBT-Aztecs trade WM+2g(them) for WM(us)
Alexandria Spear-Settler
Pi-Ram Temple-Spear

210BC: :sleep:
IBT: Byblos Worker-Worker
190BC: :sleep:
170BC: :sleep:
IBT: Learn Monarchy
Thebes Library-Settler
150BC: :sleep:
IBT: Elphedine Spear-Settler
Giza Temple-Worker
130BC: :sleep:

Notes:
We need more workers!!

Save:
>>Here<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_130BC.SAV)

Ok, gorm, fel free to take the turns. :)

Good playing, braunie. :goodjob:

got it.

Preturn:

We could use a galley to pick up our gems and hopefully our ivory.

110:
drop tech to get republic in 1.

90:
revolt to republic. Drop all research except a token scientist, let AI research for us.

Start 40 turn gambit on engineering.

70:
Thebes makes settler, start marketplace.

We get a new palace section.

50:
Memphis makes settler, starts settler.
Avaris makes war, starts temple.

30:
Alexandria makes galley, starts settler.
Byblos makes worker, starts settler.
El-Amarna makes spear, starts temple.

10:
I removed the cancel orders for enemy combat unit preference. Our workers stopped their work just for a passing settler/spear team.

10:
Zulu wants 58g+TM, I fold.

30:
Zulus makes Pyramids, starts HG.
Romans get GW.

50:
We got Monotheism.
Memphis makes settler, starts cathedral.
Pi-Ramesses makes spear, starts settler.
Fur is online, drop lux to 10%.

70:
Thebes makes marketplace, starts cathedral. Thebes is too large to make settlers, I am planning to reserve her to make wonders, eyeing on Sistine Chapel.
Heliopolis makes granary, starts settler.
Elephantine makes settler, starts settler.
Alexandria makes settler, starts galley.
Hieraconpolis makes temple, starts cathedral (under alot of cultural pressure).
Spice is online, drop lux to 0%.

Summary

(1) I have started a settling race to take the uninhibited lands in the Far East. Right now we have a galley with 2 settlers heading that way. The key spots are the ivory lux and the gem lux. I intended Alexandria to be making galleys mainly, and settlers occasionally to shave off excess population.

(2) I have left Thebes to grow and use her as our wonder building city. She has grown too large (greater than pop 7) to make settlers. (need to fill 40 food).

(3) We have 3 roaming settlers, 2 (cyan and green circle) I intended for them to settle at their respective color crosses (see image). The third (pink circle) I planned to move eastward to get whatever remaining land.

(4) Keep a watchful eye on cities under cultural pressure, currently it's Hieraconpolis, Abydos and Giza. There are 2 ways to avoid flipping - (a) lots of culture and (b) lots of garrison. If need be, in corrupted-and-under-cultural-pressure cities, we can pile up units.

Next better player.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/wiz.jpg

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_70ad.SAV)

Good work gorm! :goodjob:

So, the player list looks like this:


Rik Meleet
vbraun
gormdragan - Just played
bede - You're up!
Wizard - On the bench...

I think we should put a hold on the game till the end of this week mainly beacasue of the time of year...
Not that it matters for me casue i might not get the turns till after the end of the week.

(4) Keep a watchful eye on cities under cultural pressure, currently it's Hieraconpolis, Abydos and Giza. There are 2 ways to avoid flipping - (a) lots of culture and (b) lots of garrison. If need be, in corrupted-and-under-cultural-pressure cities, we can pile up units.
Forget it. We aren't going to loose cities due to cultural pressure, at least not as long as most of the citizens are ours and our culture is stronger than the opponent's.

I worry far more about the AI attitude. The last time I checked the save, after vbraun played, Russia was annoyed with us. As long as we aren't able to defend ourselves I would give away techs, trade, give Maps do any sort of thing to get them polite again.

Culture flips are our friends, war is our enemy.

And what I also don't understand why we aren't revolting for Monarchy and after that for Republic. We are Religiuous, it only saves us half a turn. And the unit-cost isn't going to kill us, happyness isn't an issue (with all our temples) and we need to be able to cashrush! Revolt ASAP; we are wasting time in despotism.

I think we need galleys to get new cities in the east. Let's have 3 or for galleys and around 20 settlers there ASAP. We are going for Domination; every tile counts. But refrain from settling within or just 1-tile outside the cultural border of opponents, we haven't got sufficient defenders to survive a war started by "aggressive-settling".


Merry Christmas Everyone

Ok, I put this game on hold until the 1st f Jan: I won't be here, and at least what gorm said was that he'll be away too.

The game is on hold until Jan 1st due to several people's abscenity

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. :)

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
Forget it. We aren't going to loose cities due to cultural pressure, at least not as long as most of the citizens are ours and our culture is stronger than the opponent's.

I worry far more about the AI attitude. The last time I checked the save, after vbraun played, Russia was annoyed with us. As long as we aren't able to defend ourselves I would give away techs, trade, give Maps do any sort of thing to get them polite again.

Culture flips are our friends, war is our enemy.

And what I also don't understand why we aren't revolting for Monarchy and after that for Republic. We are Religiuous, it only saves us half a turn. And the unit-cost isn't going to kill us, happyness isn't an issue (with all our temples) and we need to be able to cashrush! Revolt ASAP; we are wasting time in despotism.

I think we need galleys to get new cities in the east. Let's have 3 or for galleys and around 20 settlers there ASAP. We are going for Domination; every tile counts. But refrain from settling within or just 1-tile outside the cultural border of opponents, we haven't got sufficient defenders to survive a war started by "aggressive-settling".



Listen to the Guru. :goodjob: My ignorance spawned from my temple-marketplace-rax-and-trample-the-world tactics. Never one who is ahead in culture, hence my paranoia.

With regards to Monarchy, I have only 2 turns to republic so it seemed unsound to revolt for 1 turn of monarchy (as opposed to 2 turns of despotism), but I may be wrong.

Also, is my proposed cyan cross considered aggressive settling?



MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Wizard
Ok, I put this game on hold until the 1st f Jan: I won't be here, and at least what gorm said was that he'll be away too.

The game is on hold until Jan 1st due to several people's abscenity

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. :)

Thank you!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Merry Christmas!!

The game is back in action as soon as most of you have posted that you will be able to play, I have returned and will beable to play now. :)

Happy New Year to everyone too. :)

Got it.

Will play as soon as most of the gang check in.

Ok, good. :)

Bede tours the map

Wow! There is a lot of unclaimed territory in the East Looks like somebody had a little war out there as there are a crossroads and no cities

The two settler galley can drop one on coast with fish and iron then NE two tiles and drop the other on the fish then head back to the cove at Pi-R to pick up new settler

We need workers big-time. Lots of unconnected gold producing tiles!!

Dept of State:
Aztecs are cautious Give Monte WM and open an embassy hoping to improve his attitude Tenowhatever produces 10spt, 16gpt, 15 fpt, 40% sci, pop7, two clowns has Oracle but no Temple, HG due in 13 Monte is now polite

Hiawatha is cautious. Open an embassy. Salamnaca has pop5, 7spt, 12fpt, 10gpt, and a colusseum, 3 spears and an archer in garrison, building another archer, sci@90% He is now polite Sell him Republic for 67g and WM

Cathy is cautious. Open an embassy Moscow: 5 citizens, one clown, 7spt, 11fpt, 15gpt, sci@40%, HG in 7 turns, no improvements She is now polite but really has nothing to trade other than maps. Trade WMs straight up

Julie of Rome is cautious. Open an embassy. Rome: pop7, one clown, 6spt, 15fpt, 14gpt, has GW, bulding Legionary, has four spears in garrison Trade WMs straight up as he has nothing to offer He is now polite

Mao is cautious Open an embassy Beijing is pop7, one clown, 12spt, 15fpt, 13gpt, sci@50%, HG in 6, no other improvements Trade our WM for his and 20g

Shaka is annoyed Open an embassy Zimbabwe is pop6, one clown, 8spt, 15fpt, 14gpt, sci@70%, has Pyramids, HG due in 36, two imps in garrison The embassy and a WM gift have no impact on his bad attitude

Bismarck is cautious. Offers 21g and WM for WM Take his treasury then offer ROP to improve his attitude Otto is now polite

Homeland:
Put beakerhead at Thebes back to work and raise lux to 10% Cathedral due in 6
Switch Elephantine to worker in 4, grow in 6 and hire beakerhead

Push enter

IT Giza worker to worker

T1 90AD MIRC Drop off settler on coast

T2 110AD Found Lisht in NW corner on river and start worker
Found Buto between Thebes and Alexandria
Found Edfu on coast SE of Virconium start Spearman
Drop settler on coast SE of Edfu

IT

T3 130AD Found Pithom on coast start Spearman

IT Annoyed Mao demands homeward bound warrior leave his territory,. Apologise and offer ROP and his attitude improves

T4 150AD Julie has Engineering and will sell for ~460g or 23gpt Monopoly price and nobody else has any money Pass for now but shut off research

T5 170AD Julie's price for Engineering has gone up to 500g or 25gpt

IT Thebes completes Cathedral starts barracks Avaris grows and riots. Sorry Hire beakerhead Beijing completes HG Barracks

T6 190AD :Snooze:

IT GL produces Engineering Switch research to Theology

T7 210AD Shaka accepts 2gpt and is now cautious Hiawatha will buy Engineering for 29g

IT Homeward bound warrior trespasses on Russian territory Annoyed Cathy asks us to leave. Agree and sign ROP as she is crossing our territory anyway and she returns to polite. Thebes produces settler who boards waiting galley

T8 230AD Found Busiris N of Giza start worker Found Kahun W of Heliopolis start worker Settler lands at Edfu

IT

T9 250AD :Snooze:

IT

T10 260AD Hiawatha has 2 slaves on auction for 50g Buy 'em Sell Mao Engineering for 29g Everybody else either has it or is broke Sign ROP with Shaka to improve his testy mood to polite

SitRep
I've never seen histograph curves likes this. We are at the top of the tree with a culture bulge that looks like a pregnancy All our neighbors are polite towards us and we have tech parity Otto and Hiawatha are still at war and there is now a race to settle the former Iro lands in the east. Otto keeps pushing up to our borders in the NE and Julie is our challenger in the SE. There is a settler at Edfu and another one on a galley headed for Pithom The treasury is in good shape and we can afford to rush settlers as fast as we can Cost~110g and we've got 53gpt in hand and more on the way. If we can keep pushing south and east ahead of Julie there is a good shot at lots of luxes (ivory and gems)

This is turning out to be a fascinating game. I have to keep resisting the urge to put barracks everywhere and spend the shields and cash on culture, workers and settlers instead

Still no reliable screenshots. My old Dell keeps crashing on the graphics programs

The Empire Grows, Again and More (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04__260_AD.zip.zip)

A nice set of turns as usual, Bede. :thumbsup:

Rik Meleet- on the bench
vbraun- on deck
gormdragan
bede - just played
Wizard - playing soon...

I'm here. Just busy playing president. If I don't repsond in time, just PM me.

Ok. I understand. Was that a got it?

Edit: Never mind, I got mixed up here...

Just some things I noticed in the save.

What a big land we have, well done. It's good to settle the east, we are going for Domination, so get the tiles we need. We still need settlers more than workers. Therefore I suggest we still focus on them. Workers can be bought, settlers can't be bought. We are extremely lucky to have a big area without civs (the far East of the map). This makes Domination a lot easier. Grab it, if we don't take it now we have to take it later and that is very very hard. And there are 2 luxuries we don't have. Fill up the galleys with settlers and grab grab grab.

Why are Edfu, Buto and Pithom making workers ? They are size 1 and will disband the city doing that.

Iroquois have 2 workers on offer. Go for it.

Shaka is annoyed. We might consider giving him stuff to get him polite again.

Look out for Germany, they have nearly conquered the Iro's. After that they'll go for our Eastern-lands. Or they go for our core. Be prepared.

Boy is this game going well or what ? :)

little screenshot: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/260_AD.JPG

:undecide: Well, I already played the turns, and didn't do all of that...

The turns...

260AD [1]: Seems like Bede has pressed enter here... Map tour. Man, there is an enormous land area in he SE area of our continent! :eek: That would propably be a good place for the FP, unless we have already built it... Push enter.

IBT: We get a palace expansion. :king:

270AD [2]: There's a settler near Edfu... not sure where to go. start journey NE...

IBT: Mao offers WM+ 7 gold for WM, I agree.
Elephantine worker > library.
Whoops, El Amarna riots...
Lisht wor > temple.

280AD [3]: :sleep:

IBT: Julie builds a city between Edfu and the other one over there.

290AD [4]: :sleep:

IBT: Mephis Cathedral > library.
:cringe: Alexandria riots. I should be more careful...
Viroconium revolts to us. :)

300AD [5]: Now I remember to check if ciies are rioting. None are.

IBT: Byblos spear (?) > lib.

310AD [6]: :sleep:

IBT: Again I forgot to check for rioting coties. :cringe: Byblos riots.
Asyut wor > lib.

320AD [7]: Unload a setler E of Pithom. Unload a settler /spear pair near the Ivory in the Far East.

IBT: Thebes Colosseum > bah. no culture producing buildings left. Not even any prebuild for the Sistine. Start Courthouse, can be changed.

330AD [8]: Build Athribis, start worker.
Build Mendes, start worker.
Build El- Ashmunein, start worker.

IBT: Alexandria Harbor > cathedral.
Avaris worker > temple.
Busiris wor > temple.
Kahun wor > temple.

340AD [9]: Rember that we don't need science and that cathedrals are as cheap as libraries and produce the same culture but produce three happy faces, so I change all cities building a library to cathedral if they don't have one.

IBT: Lisht temple > cath.
Kahun temple > cath.

350AD [10]: :sleep:

Summary: I actually propably didn't build eough settlers. Maybe the next one should build somemore. But I did my best...

Go grab the land and use brains instead of like I did... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_350AD.SAV)

I'm up now, right ?

Rik Meleet- You're up!
vbraun- on the bench
gormdragan- on deck
bede
Wizard - just played

Playing.

IHT. Up lux to 10%, fired all clowns. Down science to 0%. A slow tech pace is to our advantage. We can plan wonder prebuilds, face less advanced units, have time to build up culture and settlers.
Change Thebes from courthouse to barracks. MM to grow in 1.
Change Elephantine from cath to settler,
Change ALexandria to settler, rushed it for 88 gold.
Change Buto from worker to Galley, rushed it for 80 gold.
Change Kahun from cath to spear,
Change Lisht from cath to spear,
Change Pi-Ramesses from cath to granary,
Change Giza from cath to settler, wasting 8 shields...
Change Byblos from cath to settler,
Change Asyut from cath to spear, rushed it for 68 gold.
Change Virconium from worker to temple,
Change Edfu from worker to temple, rushed it for 80 gold.
Change Pithom from worker to temple, rushed it for 80 gold.
Change Athribis from worker to temple, rushed it for 112 gold.
Change Mendes from worker to temple, rushed it for 112 gold.
Change El-Ashmunein from worker to temple, rushed it for 112 gold.
Change Memphis from lib to settler, wasting 5 shields...
Rushed temple in Busiris for ?? gold (can't remember).

Gift Shaka our WM. Stays annoyed. Sign RoP with Shaka, Polite.

Move warrior from Elephatine to Busiris.

We have 635 gold, +73 gpt.

IBT:
Thebes barracks -> settler
Memphis settler -> spear
Alexandria settler -> settler
Giza settler -> spear
Hieracanpolis cathedral -> spear
Asyut spear -> worker (now this is a good worker farm, highly corrupted, though big.
Buto galley -> worker
Edfu temple -> spear
Pithom temple -> spear
Busiris temple -> spear
Athribis temple -> spear
Mendes temple -> spear
El-AshMunein temple -> worker

1 - 360 AD. moved galleys and workers.

IBT Germans want to continue RoP. Asked their WM for it. signed.
El-amarna riots. oops...

2 - 370 AD. Blocking some zulu. moving galleys and workers. Rush settler in Alexandria for 100 gold.

IBT:
Thebes Settler -> settler.
Elephantine settler -> settler
Alexandria settler -> spear

3 - 380 AD. Rush temple in El-amarna for 20 gold.
Build Tanis near German lands. First more aggressive settlement. Starts Spear.

IBT. Heliopolis Cath -> settler
Al-amarna temple -> settler

4 - 390 AD. Aztecs have Feudalism, so do Iro's, Russians and Romans. We'll get it next turn through the GL. Hopefully can sell it then.

IBT: Chinese want to continue RoP. Asked their WM for it. signed. Feudalism comes in through the GL.
Byblos settler -> settler
Buto worker -> galley
Aztecs are building Sun Tzu, Zulu too.

5 - 400 AD. Assign workers to road to our new lands. Move galleys with settlers.
Germany has worker on offer and has no feudalism or engineering. Offer Feud for worker and WM.
Rush pike in Tanis for 112 gold. In Kahun for 100 gold, In Lisht for 100 gold.

IBT:
Thebes Settler -> Sun Tzu,
Lisht Pike -> Cath
Kahun Pike -> cath
Tanis Pike -> Temple

6 - 410 AD. Hurry Galley in Buto for 108 gold.

IBT:
Memphis Pike -> settler
Abydos: Cath -> settler
Buto: Galley -> Galley
Chinese and Romans also start Sun Tzu.

7 - 420 AD. Sending more workers to the East. Change Thebes to settler and rush it for 72 gold. Land is more important than Sun Tzu even.
Buy worker from China for WM + 1gpt + 3 gold.

IBT.
Thebes settler -> Sun Tzu.

8 - 430 AD. Move settler for real aggressive settlement near Heidelburg.

IBT. Russians want to continue RoP. Asked their WM + 47 gold for it. signed.
Heliopolis settler -> Pike
Alexandria Pike -> settler

9 - 440 AD. Found Buhen close to Heidelburg. Really aggressive. Needs Pike or spear very soon. Starts spear.
Settler lands on Eastland. Eastland warrior still moving north to help block the gap.

10 - 450 AD. 2 settlers land in El-Ashmunein. On their way to claim land.
Found Bubastis on Eastland. Starts temple
Rush spear in Buhen for 76 gold. Workers continue there eastroad.

----------------------------------------------
No remarks this time, just play the way you like.

Egypt 260 AD.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/260_AD.JPG

Egypt 450 AD.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/450_AD..JPG

The Save 450 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_450AD.SAV)

Rik Meleet- just played
vbraun- You're up!
gormdragan- on the bench
bede - on deck
Wizard

Good turns there. :goodjob: You seemed to be able to fix the worst of my mistakes...:)

:hmm: Seems like vbraun isn't here... Well, gorm, I think you're free to go ahead and take the save now...

Are you sure Gorm is here ?

Nope, but I hope so...

Well, as far as this, seems like we and Bede are the only ones here...:undecide: Let's wait and see if someone appears.

Agreed. The game is far more fun with 5 than just 3.

Im here! Ill play the turns as soon as i get the save after i get home from school today. :)

Ok, great! :)

Got it! Ill play the turns tommarow. I might even be able to post them at school!

Ok. :)

I sure hope gorm pops out of somewhere...

Ahem. Where is the save? You know, you should have posted it yesterday. But never mind, as gorm isn't here as it seems.

Originally posted by Wizard
Ahem. Where is the save? You know, you should have posted it yesterday. But never mind, as gorm isn't here as it seems.

Ooops :blush:

I played them but uploading files at school... is well it just doesnt work.

I can post the turnlog though. And i'll edit my post to include tthe save once i get home.

Turnlog:
Pre-Flight Checks: Everything is good. :)

IBT:
Trade
Russia US
WM+8g WM
Elephintine Settler-Library
Elephantine Settler-Settler
Hilopolis Pike-Lib
Asyut Worker-Worker
Aviris Temple-Cathedral
El-Ashruinin Worker-Worker
Buhen Spear-Temple

Turn 1: move settlers/workers

IBT:
Iroquis US
TM+1 TM
Abyas Settler-Library

Turn 2: zzz

IBT:
Rome US
WM+10 10
El-Amaran Riots. Hire entertainer
Virnosium Temple-Library
Chinish Finish Colossus

Turn 3: zzz

IBT:
Bubbas Settler-Cathedral

Turn 4:
Settle This -Warrior :lol:

IBT:
Heliopolis Pike-Settler
Alexandria Settler-Pike
Chinese start Sistines

Turn 5:
Settle Oryx-oh darn i forgot...
Settle Sebennytes-Worker

Turn 6: zzz

IBT:
Buto Gally-Gally

Turn 7:
Settle Cario :king: -Warrior

IBT:
Athuris Riots. Hire Enetrainer

Turn 8:
:sleep:

IBT:
Elephine Settler-Pike
PI-Ramesses Granary-Settler

Turn 9:
Settle New Thebes :D -Worker

IBT:
Heliooplois Settler-Pike
El-Amrna Settler-Settler

10: Settle New Memphis-Another one i forgot :o

Save: >>Here<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_550AD.SAV)

Looks like a nice set of turns there. :goodjob:

Quite a lot of settling. :) We'll have two times the land compared to anyone else! :D

So, gormdragan is up, when he appears.

Save eddited in. :)

Good. Wonder where gorm is. I guess we'll have to skip him...:undecide:

Rik Meleet
vbraun
gormdragan - Away?
bede - You're up!
Wizard - on the bench...

@vbraun

Your save link is not working.

I think the url is wrong.

I'll pick up the save asap after edit

Thanks

Were on uploads 6 Not 8...

:blush:
:lol:

Editted.

Nice settling!!!

Just one comment, though. I don't see the need for workers or warriors before temples in our Eastern lands. Temples = cultural expansion = no room for foreigners in our lands.

Actually I see no need for warriors at all. If you want units, go for spearmen. Their upgrade path is useful. Warriors or swordsmen aren't useful in this game.

Perhaps we should build our FP in Memphis. Then later we can move our Capitol to the East. I don't like wasting the FP-effect.

Will plant some more settlers tonight

Good points, Rik. :) It is good to have some really experienced players here. :)

Bede tours the extremely large empire

All new cities switch to temples (thanks Rik)
Fire the clown in Athribes and hire a beakerhead Theology is due in 28
Set lux at zero Treasury now stands at 951 63gpt Empire remains content
Switch Alexandria from pike to cathedral due in 9
Decide to spend some cash to rush cultural builds in border cities

Check in with neighbors
Julius is polite but has troops in our territory Sign RoP to avoid conflict in future
Monte is cautious and has troops all over our territory He'll pay 8g for RoP and is now polite
Happy Hiawatha is smiling and will pay 4g to cross our territory
Chatty Cathy is also polite and has 8 turns to go on RoP
Mao is polite and has 4 to go on RoP WIll try to get roads down to his territory as he has incense, but could use our spices and silks, and judging from the map he has the next largest territory. He also has Theology
Shaka is polite. RoP is up for renegotiation so take 5g for privilege
Otto is polite RoP has 1 turn to go He has no money and no techs but could use spices and silks too He just may get some nice silks for Mrs Bismarck soon as he has the roads or some pepper for his wienerschnitzel


There are settlers all over the place Will try to put them where they will do the most good

IT Asyut worker=>worker Lisht cathedral=>library Pithom spear=>harbor for future access to gems, and ivory in SE Kahun cathedral=>library Mendes spear=>spear El-Ash worker to worker There is a lot of jungle chopping and road building to do down there Tanis temple=>cathedral Shift citizens around to increase growth Buhen temple=>cathedral Oryx temple=>cathedral

T1 560AD Workers working and settlers wandering Elephantine switched from pike to cathedral Reassign citizens to increase spt

IT Otto the polite pays a call asking for maps Sure thing Otto, but it's the neighborly thing to do Athribis finishes spear starts cathedral

T2 570AD Workers work

IT GL produces Theology from Russians and Chinese Hire Gutenberg to develop moveable type The soothsayers also come up with Invention Memphis finishes library and starts settler due in 5 Switch citizenry around to increase gpt and Memphis will also grow in 5 Iroquois learn Theology and start Sistine in Allegheny (pop1) and the Chinese start the chapel in Anyang (pop2) Thebes switches from SunT to Sistine due in 30

T3 580AD Workers work and settlers wander arriving on the borders of Germany Do I settle on the German borders on top of iron or furs or just pass on to the SE? Check in with neighbors Only Cathy has any gold to spend for anything but no roads to deliver it on WIll orient workers in wet to connect to Russian and Chinsese empires hoping for some lucrative gpt lux deals Byblos and El-Amarna have grown so raise lux tax to 10%

IT Zulu finish GtLt and start Leo's

T4 590AD Galleys arrive at cove near Pi-R so rush settlers in two closest cities

IT Mao pays a call looking for maps Gift him ours Aztecs start SunT and Leo's

T5 600AD Found New Heliopolis NE of Heidleberg Found New Elephantine between Cairo and New Memphis Found New Alex on Ivory on SE peninsula Settlers board galleys and set sail for SE Found New Pi-R N of Tanis

IT Russians start Sistine's

T6 610AD Workers work and settlers wander

IT Romans, Chinese and Iro found cities in eastern deserts and southern jungles

T7 620AD Found New Giza N of Athribis and New Byblos N of Mendes Galleys sail and workers work connecting us to Monte's empire. Unfortunately he has nothing to offer for our silks

IT Roman, Iro, and German settler/military pairs wander through the SE provinces New Seb way in the east grows and riots Sorry Hire beakerhead

T8 630AD Workers work and settlers wander. We're running out of places to put them except in the deep south FOund New El-Am on hillsbetween virconium and Old El-am
Dept of State pays courtesy calls:
Monte is polite has only incense, needs silks and iron (no wonder he's been so peaceful), has only 10g
Happy Hiawatha offers a pipe and chat Now has three cities Could use horses, spices, silks and furs (must be cold in those lonely lodges and the food is bad) but we have no connection to his confederacy
Chatty Cathy has 11 cities, needs spices but has no connection to sprawling Egypt RoP due to expire Sign her up again and charge 5g for tolls
Smiling Jules will offer 20g and not a penny more for silks Leave offer open hoping for better deal
Polite Mao will empty his treasury (28g) for RoP tolls He has 17 cities Take the money and run as he still has no connection to trade silks or spices
Smilin Shaka needs iron, spices and silks and has wine to sell but has no connections to sprawling Egypt Has 12 cities
Otto has 12 cities Still needs silk for Mrs B and pepper for the wienerschnitzel but has no money to offer for it He is still polite

IT

T9 640AD Galleys sail, workers work and settlers wander

IT Shaka pays a call and wants maps People build second story on the palace

T10 650AD Workers working Settlers sailing and wandering Galleys arrive at cove so rush settler at Pi-R

The time may have come to consider some serious neighborly gestures. We have enough Cash on Hand to make some gifts to our local charities (Otto et al) I would keep the trade goods we have for later needs and just use gold now. (Insert link to AI Attitude thread) We are the wealthiest and most cultured and have at least tech parity with all (leadership on some) Building a few more libraries and turning up the research pace will help us down the road when we need to trade for serious help or money Based on the last round of GL discoveries and wonder starts I think the the neighbors are going along the bottom of the tech tree

The Sprawling Empire Save will folow

htttp://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_650AD1.SAV

Excellent set of turns!

By now there too many settler pairs in our eastern lands to even have a small chance to get a few good spots. So it's fillers there, at most. With a lotta culture we can flip them all. We have cash, try to buy some culture and we still have all the eastlands.

I see we are aggressively settling against the Germans. Very nice, but then we can expect sneak attacks. I'd like some defense there; as well as culture.

Gentlemen, I think we are reaching stage 2. Defending and culturally expanding our borders. Accompanied by cash buildup and culture buildup.

In due time we can ignite some wars between neighbouring civs to have some autorazed cities we can build in, or Settle inside territory. But that's the future. I like this game.

repeated: Bede's save (htttp://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_650AD1.SAV)

Very nice turns. :goodjob:

So, Rik, are you saying that I shouldn't anymore build settlers but culture and defence?

Rik Meleet - On deck
vbraun
gormdragan
bede - just played
Wizard - to play today

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_ai_attitude.shtml

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_ai_happy_trick.shtml

These thread have some really good ideas on maintaining relationships with neighbors and friends.

BTW

Have a good time with this huge empire

Originally posted by Wizard
So, Rik, are you saying that I shouldn't anymore build settlers but culture and defence? It's just my point of view. I only spot what I would do, but this is a SG, do what you like and think best. I only had a quick glance.

:wallbash: I forgot to play the turns, and now it's almost too late... :undecide: Someone take the turns, and I'll then take them after that.

I can.

Ok, please go ahead. :) I'm not sure if I have time to play tomorrow, but I should be able to play on tuesday. :)

IHT: F4 check. All ok. Buy Incense +3 gold for silks and spice. Down lux to 0%.
Change Athribis to worker. Mendes to worker, Buhen to worker.
Rush temple in New Heliopolis for 100 gold.
Rush temple in New Pi-Ramesses for 100 gold.
Rush temple in New Giza for 108 gold.
Rush temple in New Byblos for 108 gold.

IBT:
Pi-Ramesses Settler -> lib
Giza pike -> aqua
Hieraconpolis lib -> court
Asyut worker -> court
Edfu pike -> harbor
** Athribis riots **
Mendes worker -> worker
El-Ashumein worker -> worker
Buhen worker -> cath
New Helio temple -> spear
New Pi-Ramesses temple -> spear
New Giza temple -> pike
New Byblos temple -> spear

1 - 660 AD. workers continue road. Settlers in galleys to get the last lands.

IBT: Palace expands. Plant trees.

2- 670 AD. Workers work.

3- 680 AD. Found New Hieraconpolis aggressively. Start temple.
Found new Abydos. Starts temple.

IBT: Byblos Cath -> court
Avaris court -> aqua
Athribis worker -> worker
Romans start Sistine's

4- 690 AD. Rush temple in New Hieracon for 116 gold.

IBT: New Hieraconpolis temple -> spear

5- 700 AD. Rush temple in Cairo for 48 gold. Rush temple in New Thebes for 56 gold. Rush temple in Sebennytus for 44 gold.

IBT:
Lisht lib -> court
Buto temple -> harbor
Sebennytus temple - spear
Cairo temple -> spear
New Thebes temple -> spear

6 - 710 AD. Workers work

IBT Palace expands twice. Gets a new top floor and a roof.

7- 720 AD. workers work.
Chinese have education. That'll kill our GL soon :( Bit OTOH it gives us university-culture soon.

IBT:
Heliopolis Colosseum -> market
Elephantine Cath -> court
** new memphis riots **
Galley lost in treacherous water. Galley was empty.

8 - 730 AD. No Education yet. There appears to be another Island east of our Eastern lands. I see Green borders there.
Rush temple in New Abydos for 100 gold.

IBT: New Abydos temple -> spear
Palace Expands, gets Eastern wing.

9 - 740 AD. Found New Asyut. Starts temple.
Chinese now also have Gunpowder. They are up Both Edu and Gunp. Russia as well. This is the last turn for the GL. Bye Bye GL. You have served us well. We're still getting the 6 cpt though.

IBT: Education and Gunpowder come in. GL expires .
Alexandria Lib -> court
Bubastis temple -> spear
Lugdunum flips to us. Thank you. Starts temple. Comes with a musket.

10 - 750 AD. Workers work. Hurry temple in New Asyut for 116 gold.

For some reason I don't trust the Chinese. They are still polite, but they invade our lands too often. I expect a sneak atack from them one day.

We have enough cities and settlers in place to claim all of the remaining Eastlands.

There is 1 more settler in a galley. I was going to check whether I could use it aggressively on an island. Maybe the chinese island, maybe the Aztec Island. Maybe just on the south-tip of the Eastlands. It's up to the next player. The eastland-cities should build this: temple -> spear/pike/musket -> settler. We can fight an easy cultural battle there and eventually flip all cities.

The road from east to west is going on well. It has nearly reached New Hieraconpolis and is going to Bubastis. We have a continous city line from the Chinese border all along the coast to nearly the south tip of the Eastlands.

We are winning the cultural battle against the Romans. We are fighting a cultural battle with the Germans. When the cities there have defense we should build libs to win this cultural battle.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/750_AD.jpg

The Save 750 AD. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_750_AD.SAV)

Rik Meleet - Just played
vbraun - On deck
gormdragan -
bede -
Wizard - Up

So: the line is: Wizard - > vbraun -> Gorm -> Bede -> Wizard and then back to normal.

Nicely done Rik

Has anybody run this through MapStat? Results might be interesting

I don't have it...

Good turns, Rik. :goodjob:

I'll take the turns tomorrow, I don't have the time today...

Ok, I got the save now, will play today. (I hope, my memory is terrible. :undecide: )

Here you go, the turnlog:


Preturn: Check everything... Looks good, we are putting a nice cultural pressure on our borders. :) Press enter.

IBT: New El- Amarna riots. Wonder how that has got past my sight... Assign a scientist to avoid it.
New Asyut Temple > library.

760AD [1]: Move workers, assign jobs... Build New Avaris.

IBT: Man, there are lots of enemy troops in our territory! :eek: Watch them run around aimlessly...

770AD [2]: :sleep:

780AD [3]: Hurry buildings that need to be hurried: temples and libraries. We have only 107 gold now, I hurried buildings in border cities.

:lol: Just noticed that New El-Amarna is beside the original one!
Build New Lisht.

IBT: Memphis Colosseum > University.
Pi-Ramesses lib > cath.
El-Amarna cath > lib.
Abydos col > uni.
Avaris aqua > lib.
Kahun lib > uni.
Lugdunum tem > cath.
Athribis wor > cath.
Tanis cath > lib.
Buhen cath > lib.
This tem > cath.
We lose a galley due to my mistakemove. :(

790AD [4]: zzz

800AD [5]: zzz

IBT: Heidelburg flips to us! :yeah:

810AD [6]: Just remembered to check AI attitude, and seems like everyone is happy. :)
Build New Buto very aggrassively onto a Chinese island.

IBT: Heliopolis Market > uni.
Lisht court > col.

820AD [7]: zzz

IBT: New Buto tem > spear.

830AD [8]: Gah. Just realised that the Chinese have build a new city into the southern tip of the Eastern lands...

IBT: Alexandria court > uni.
Gah. Pi-Ramesse riots.
New El-Amarna spear > tem.

840AD [9]: Hurry spear in New Buto.

IBT: Julius wants an audience. I grant it to him. He is always welcome. He wants TM trade, I agree.

Thebes builds the Sistine Chapel! :) > Uni.
New Buto spear > cath.
The Iroquois are building leonardos. Russia is building Sun's. And Leo's. China is building Cop's. Romans the leo.

850AD [10]: To many sleep icons...

And the save...

Go flip those cities! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04850AD.SAV)

Rik Meleet
vbraun - You're up!
gormdragan - Get ready
bede
Wizard - Just played

I'm back.

Wonderful! :D I missed your ideas...:)

I wonder where vbraun is.

Well, gorm, it's your turn now. :)

I got back to work today and there was tons of stuff for me to do. I will play the game during the weekend, i.e., tomorrow.

Ok, fine. Good to get you back into the playlist. :D

Skip me this round.

I already did. :p

Reading the logs now, will play tonight. Sorry, my football team was playing today and WE WON!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I have not been able to find time to play, could I ask for a skip?

Got it and will check in for go-ahead this afternoon

MapStat Results 850AD
Empire Territory Population
Egypt 32.3% 34.7%
China 14.9 18.3
Aztecs 11.1 11.7
Russia 9.7 10.9
Zululand 8.4 10.6
Germany 7.6 5.9
Rome 5.8 6.7
Iroquois 1.6 1.1

City Ranking
Thebes Population 12 Great Library and Sistines
Tenochitlan Population 11 Oracle
Heliopolis Population 7
Zimbabwe Population 11 Pyramids
Moscow Population 11

Looking through the Great Wonder report everyone is building SunT and Leo's In addition the Chinese are building Copernicus' Does it make sense to buy Astronomy and shoot for CO?

Foreign Ministry Report
Aztecs
At peace with everybody
Have RoP with all but Russia
Technology: Chivalry
Treasury: 20g
Trade goods: None Need Iron

Iroquois
At peace
Have RoP with Aztecs, Germans and Glorious Egypt
Technology: Laggard,lack Education and Gunpowder
Treasury: 11g
Trade Goods: None Need Horses

Russia
At peace with all
Have RoP only with Egypt
Technology: Has Chivalry
Treasury: 21g
Trade Goods: Dyes Needs luxes but has no connection to Egypt

Rome
At peace with all
Has RoP with Aztec, Germany and Egypt
Technology: Has Chivalry
Treasury: 14g
Trade Goods: Needs Saltpeter and luxes

China
At peace with all
Has RoP with Aztec and Egypt
Technology: Has Chivalry and Astronomy
Treasury: 56g
Trade Goods: Gems for local consumption

Zululand
At peace with all
Has RoP with Germany, Aztec and Egypt
Technology: Chivalry
Treasury: 69g
Trade Goods: Needs Iron and Saltpeter Has wine Needs other luxes but has no connection to Egypt

Germany
At peace with all
Has RoP with all but Russia and China
Technology: Lacks Gunpowder
Treasury: 1g
Trade Goods Needs our luxes

Treaties and Trades
All RoP agreements up for renegotiation
China Incense for Silks and Spices expiring

Ministry of War report
Egypt is at least average compared to all but China where we are weak

Egypt is the unquestioned leader in all categories but military and that worries me. When the SE cities connect up to the Empire we will have tradable surpluses in most trade goods except wine (Zulu seem to have a lock on that) and monopolies in some of them Our biggest threat is China, a hard working and militaristic people

I place a courtesy call on Mao hoping he will sell us Astronomy Prior to the appointment our Beijing ambassador takes a tour of Anyang where Mao is building CO, pop3 6 net spt, 0 pop growth, CO completes in 42 turns If I can get Astronomy for less than 70gpt out of our current income of 130+ I will buy it and start CO in Thebes (potentially 22spt at 0 pop growth should pull CO in 20 turns)

Mao wants Silks Spices and 70gpt for Astronomy Buy it Leave the Incense on the table for later and make a few changes in some cities to avert riots

In the tour of the Empire I determine that Byblos would make a nice Fobidden Palace site Should raise the productivity of the NW and central cities significantly

Place courtesy calls on all the potentates to peddle Astronomy and re-up RoP agreements

Monte gives us Chivalry and his 20g for Astronomy
Hiawatha antes 11g for the privilege of crossing our territory
Catherine chips in another 20 for her RoP
Julius adds 11g for his
Mao will rebate 5gpt of the 70 for his ticket
Shaka adds 69g for his RoP
Bismarck is broke so he gets his for free

All the diplomats are glad to see us and remain polite

I rush the temple in Heidleberg for 104g and the temple in New Elephantine for 20g and New Alex for 20g and the temple in New Avaris for 84g and a spearman in Sebennytus for 20g (If we don't connect Sebennytus to the rest of the realm for a while we can rush cheap spears for upgrade elsewhere) I put another 124g into the CH at Elephantine and will start a barracks there for producing military

T1 860AD
The first Aztec town, Tula, succumbs to our cultural pressure It comes with its own musket
The Roman city of Lutetia is now ours also It comes with a spearman
As usual workers mine irrigate chop and road
T2 870AD
No new converts
T3 880AD
No new converts
As usual workers mine irrigate chop and road
T4 890AD
Aztecs complete Leo's Iro cascade their Leo city to SunT Russians cascade their Leo city to CO (Tbilisi due in 39) Chinese cascade their Leo city to CO (Shanghai due in 17) Thebes is due in 15!!
Borders expand in W opening up an aggressive settlement location between Cumae and Neapolis
No new converts
As usual workers mine irrigate chop and road
T5 900AD
Borders expand in the SE enclosing the entire peninsula with the exception of one small chinese town on the SW corner and...
Paoting, the first Chinese city, joins the empire (Paoting is in the middle of the jungle in the SE landmass We now control nearly all of that ground There is a small Iroquois settlement on the coast and a Chinese village to the south)
T6 910AD
Beijing finishes SunT
No new converts
As usual workers mine irrigate chop and road
T7 920AD
Aztecs start CO on cascade from SunT and finish it :aargh:
Spend 56g on temple in Tula
No new converts
As usual workers mine irrigate chop and road
T8 930AD
No new converts
As usual workers mine irrigate chop and road
T9 940AD
No new converts
As usual workers mine irrigate chop and road
T10 950AD
No new converts
As usual workers mine irrigate chop and road

Check in with the Dept of State
Aztecs and China have Banking on offer for 45gpt
Julius has Printing Press
We could swing a Banking for Printing Press deal but without Marketplaces in any of our cities Banking is expensive right now Nobody else has much cash except China and Monte so brokering opportunities are limited
According to the Trade Advisor Gems are now avaiable for sale from the SE provinces Monte could use some of them The Ivory in the SE will be available soon as well The jungle now has roads and it is plains and grasslands to the elephant graveyard

There are still lots of disappointed settler teams wandering through our lands but they have nowhere left to go

MapStat 950AD
Empire Territory Population
Egypt 34.4% +2.1% 36.8% +2.1%
China 14.8% -0.1% 18.4 +0.1%
Aztecs 11.0% -0.1% 10.7% -1.0%
Russia 9.8% +0.1% 10.5% -0.4%
Zululand .4% NC 10.3% -0.3%
Germany 7.7% +0.1% 6.4% +0.5%
Rome 5.7% -0.1% 6.1% -0.6%
Iroquois 1.9% +0.3% 1.1% NC

Somebody needs to start a war (but not with us, our military is obsolete and spread out) and that will open up some settling opportunities We should have some settlers waiting in the border cities to take advantage of the situation In the interim we could also put a few more villages in the SE jungle There are no more resources or trade goods to claim but we should have some good resource opportunities there in the Industrial Age Will take an army of workers to clear the jungle, though I have been pulling workers out of Avaris to chop forests around Byblos When done they could be used to beef up jungle choppers in SE
We also need to builds roads into Russia for trade and put some cities on the Russian border near Minsk

Save follows

Egyptian Empire (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_950_AD.SAV)

Very nice playing there. :goodjob:

Got it.

And the turnlog:

Preturn: Check to see where we are going... looks good. :) Pres enter.

IBT: Stupid me. I missed Pi- Ramesses when checking for rioting cities.
Hieraconpolis settler > col.
Avaris wor > gran.
Mendes wor > cath.

960AD [1]: :sleep:

IBT: Pi-Ra cath > uni.
Sebennyutus spear > cath.

970AD [2]: :sleep:

IBT: Aztecs wanna trade TM's. I agree.
Thebes musket > anothr.
Heliopolis uni >

980AD [3]: Build New Edfu > tem.
We got past 100 points in the game! :)

IBT: Elephantine musket > lib.
Abydos uni > market.
Oryx lib > uni.
New Abydos riots. :(

990AD [4]: :sleep:

IBT: We research Printing Press > banking.

Memphis uni > market.
Alexandria uni > col.
Hieraconpolis sword (:confused: ) > cath.

1000AD [5]: Assign worker jobs...

IBT: Germany wnats a Wm trade. I agree.
Thebes musket > another.

1010AD [6]: nothing...

IBT: Ahribis riots. :cringe:

1020AD [7]: :sleep:

IBT: Heliopolis musket > rax.
Aztecs are building Smith's.

1030AD [8]: Nothing is hapening...

IBT: Thebes musket > another.

1040AD [9]: :n/a:

IBT: Heidelburg riots...
El- Amarna lib > uni.
Bubastis sword > cath.
New Abydos wor > cath.

1050AD [10]: Nothing.


Sorry, I'm real tired and stuff, so this turnlog is a bit boring..

And tha save:

:splat: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz051050AD.SAV)

I don't know who is up, but please don't play immediately. I have limited time now, but it seems we can do a powerful trading round, netting us all techs for virtually no cash, perhaps even making some. I have no time to work them out.

But then again; who am I to interfere ?

Hmm... sems like vbraun is up...

And sorry that I traded so badly, I really don't know how much is good to get from what tech in what situation... trading is my weak point, so to say. :undecide:

Wiz,

You did better than I did. 1400g for tech for a wonder that we didn't finish, then not spending 45gpt for a tech that we need to get to Demcracy?

there oughta be a law!!

A law on what? :confused:

Against mad monks!!!

I did a quick check. The Aztecs are advanced, but lack Iron, silks and gems. The Rus, Chin and Zul are equally advanced (as far as we can see). Rom nearly, but lacks Nav.

If we buy from the Aztecs Nav + chem for Iron, gems, silks WM and 7 gpt and then from Rome Bank for gems, Nav, WM and 2 gpt, we get 3 techs for some recources and 7 gpt. We are making 118 gpt.

Then we can see what other civs have discovered which are interesting techs, but don't try to get technology we don't need. Research is our enemy. We want the tech-race as slow as possible, to prevent us facing strong fast units and to prevent the AI from getting some good wonders (we know how to prebuild; the AI doesn't).

And the war-thing Bede is talking about. Perhaps we can do that "Cultural domination" style. Build some Stack consisting of 1 settler and X defender-units. Declare war on civ XX (of course with MA's) and walk 2 or 3 tiles into their lands (after declaring, remember Lkendter's rules) and build a city. Start a temple ASAP and rush it. That way we deprive the enemy from some terrain, and gain 9 (or more) tiles per stack. We finish them of with some defender-units pillaging every single improved tile they have, grinding their nation to a halt, thus allowing our allies to take over (low culture, easily flippable) or raze (more land to us) their cities.

We aren't ready for that yet, but perhaps it's time to start building up some defensive units to do that soon. Build up pikes (to be upgraded to rifles, or if that is too soon to infantry) to get a proper force. We only need to defend and very rarely attack units. We aren't allowed to attack cities, so just bypass and cripple them, making them sitting ducks for our allies.

I think Rome and to a lesser extend Germany (both culturally weak) are excellent targets for this. Rome is first choice since it is surrounded by our allies and close to our core, and Germany is also nicely located within our cultural strangulation grasp.

Don't do this to the Aztecs, Chinese or Iroquois yet; they have cities in our poorly defended hinterland. We can't take back any cities we loose.

So I suggest: build up defenders, money, of course culture and some settlers. Refrain from speeding up research in the AI's and offensive units and workers.

It's a strange game, so strange decisions have to be made.

You forgot that we aren't allowed to declare war. :p

But, on other points, looks like a good plan. :)

Originally posted by Wizard
You forgot that we aren't allowed to declare war. :pWe aren't ? I did not know that.

I checked post 1, and it isn't mentioned there.
This is an insane idea that just bumped into my head a while ago: We are heading for domination, but we aren't allowed to capture cities by any other means than culture or in making peace. Also, we aren't allowed to raze cities in war, only defend.
If you say so, we aren't going to declare war. You are the creator of the concept. But that makes it a whole lotta harder.

Are we allowed to force the AI declare on us ? (Spy attempts, repeated demands etc.) Are we allowed to sign MA's ?

Well, repeated commands are not allowed, as they're not allowed in the rulepack LKendter uses. MA's are allowed etc, the point is we aren't allowed to attack other civs. I know I should have propably said it clearer, but did you get the point now?

But yes, we can build cities in their territory if they declare war on us. :)

Ill post a got it later today.

Any thing special i should do?

Do we have enough money for an AI to declare War on us?
(make furious then steal tech imediatly it usually works ):)

Vbraun: I suppose money isn't the problem, but our defense isn't ready for war; I fear.

What do we do with money in that situation? :hmm:

sorry pple, I lost all my subscribed threads.

What do you mean? Or are you saying that's why you haven't posted...:hmm:

vbraun, are you gonna play sometime? You'd better...

vbraun is skipped. Please go ahead and play the save, gorm.

Whatever. Where is everyone? :mad:

Ok, next player to get it will get it... and it will go on from there.

If noone wants it; I'll take it.

IHT. Trade round. Nav + Chem from Aztecs for Iron, Gems, Silks, WM, 7gpt.
Banking from Rome for Gems, Nav, WM, 2gpt.
Economics from China for Spices, WM, 7gpt.
Horses to Iro for WM + 38 gold.
Researching Democracy on 0%.
Switch Heidelburg to Cathedral (city is riotting).
Switch This from swordsman to musket.
Send spear from Sebennytus to New Asyut.
Switch some scientists to taxmen.

IBT. What a lot of foreigners in our lands, just running around.
Avaris Granary -> musket
New Memphis spear -> worker
New Alex spear -> harbor
New Avaris spear -> worker

1 - 1060 AD. Workers. Change Thebes to Smiths. Going to settle aggressively on China to get some incense. Musket on it's way there.
Chinese have Democracy. And are revolting. Too expensive at monopoly prices.

IBT
Heliopolis barracks -> settler
Abydos market -> muskets
New Avaris riots. Gets taxman.

2 - 1070 AD. Not much.

IBT Buto cath -> aqua
New Lisht temple -> harbor
New Edfu temple -> Cathedral

3 - 1080 AD. not much

IBT: Memphis Market -> barracks
Heliopolis settler -> settler
Elephantine lib -> uni
Alex colosseum -> barracks

4 - 1090 AD. Settler moving to China.

IBT. some cities request aquaducts. No, finish your projects first !

5 - 1100 AD. Zulus now also have democracy. Russia has Music theory.
Hurry court in Asyut for 144 gold.
Hurry court in Tanis for 244 gold.

IBT Heidelburg riots.
Asyut: court -> aqua
Tanis: court -> aqua

6 - 1110 AD. We have connected every city, except Paoting. FP will finish in 1.
Decided not to buy Democracy, to slow the researching civs down.

IBT Heliopolis settler -> musket
Alex barracks -> musket
Forbidden palace finishes in Byblos -> lib
Abydos musket -> barracks

7 - 1120 AD. Found New Pithom to fight the Chinese culuturally for Incense. Starts temple.
Russia, Zulu, China have Music Theory and Democracy, Chinese are the cheapest.I buy Music Theory and Democracy for Ivory + WM + 60 gpt (we have 262 gpt income). Start research on Free Artistry (Think I have never done that before). We are religious, so I immediately revolt. Income now -64 gpt.
Germany has worker on offer. Don't want it.

IBT. The usual riotting and end-of-WLTKD. We are now a Democracy. Palace expands. Chines start JS Bach. I want it. Change Byblos from lib to J.S. Bachs.
8 - 1130 AD. Settler/musket pair moves into position to culturally attack the Romans. Workers clear jungle further.

IBT Memphis barracks -> granary
Avaris Musket -> market
Yangchow flips to us. 2 down, 3 to go. The Eastlands are nearly ours. Starts temple.

9 - 1140 AD. Found New Busiris, starts temple.
Rush temple in new Pithom for Chinese cultural attack.
Rush aqua in Tanis for 352.
Rush Collosseum in New Pi-Ramesses for 388 gold. Cultural attack on Germany.

IBT. Lisht Univ -> market
Tanis aqua -> rax
New Pi-Ramesses colosseum -> musket
New Pithom temple -> cath

10 - 1150 AD. Rush temple in New Busiris for 116 gold. Cultural attack on Rome. Cashrush Cath in New Buto (Island city) for 204 gold.


The Save 1150 AD. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_1150_AD.SAV)

Got it, Rik's, that is

Will play tonight unless gorm or vbraun or Wiz picks it up earlier

Expect news late tonight or tomorrow am

I will slot back in after you Bebe, if no one objects.

Tour the empire and make adjustments to increase imperial gpt and local spt to shorten build times. In general the most corrupt cities with full food boxes and big surpluses hired IRS agents and in one case a scientist to maintain our min research rate More productive cities were managed with a view to increasing productivity , shaving a turn or so from the build orders. Net effect on the treasury was an increase to 222gpt

Rush the temple in Paoting for 24g

Resist the impulse to rush buildings elsewhere

Shaka and Catherine have abdicated and their empires are in anarchy Switch Alexandria's build order to settler as now is a good time to put a little pressure on the Russian settlement at Yaktusk
Upgrade a spear at Thebes to musket and move the garrison at Thbes to support the new city to be founded on the hill south of Alexandria The new city will also support the encroachment on the incense fields

Our overwhelming territory and population are having a really negative impact on our abiulity to trade for luxuries Shaka has wine for sale but wants ivory, gems and ~460 gold or its equivalent in gpt As the citizenry is generally content leave the wine deal for later

Rik's round of trading ramped us up the tech tree and left everybody broke

We need banks!! We're going to cross the 1000g treasury in 2+ turns and it would be nice to have Wall Street

T1 1160Ad

New Beijing on the island joins the empire and comes with a musket

There is an unsettled corner of land on the west coast between Russian and Zulu territory and a galley waiting by Busiris and a musket in Elephantine Switch Busiris to settler Will see if I can poach that ground before somebody builds on it

There's another corner of open land south of Cairo and New Thebes next to New Shanghai Switch the New Thebes to settler and rush

There's a German salient east of Heidelburg with some furs, a tradeable surplus Switch New Heliopolis to Cathedral and rush and rush Cathdral in Heidleburg as well

Border expansions in the east have opened a salient against the Germans east of El-Amarna Switch New-Am to settler and rush

China now has Physics Mao's monopoly price is way too high and there is no money in the rest of the world

T2 1170AD

Found New Kahun on southwestern border

T3 1180AD

Aztecs, Zululand and Russia now have Physics

Aztecs are in revolt Zulu and Russia are now Democracies

T4 1190AD

Border expansion in Southwest has opened a salient into China

Found New Athibris on hill above New Shanghai Rush temple

Rush Cathedral at New Abydos

Fifth price for Physics is now ~570g from Zulu or ~600 from Russia Nice discount but I'll pass for now as Otto Hiawatha and Julius don't have 20 gold pieces between them

T5 1200AD

Aztecs start Bach's Zulu start Bach's

Major round of trading took place as Zulu, Russia, China and Rome are now up Physics and Metallurgy

Russia will pay 83g and 3gpt for Ivory Sell it!
Shaka will pay 8g and 6gpt for Ivory Sell it!

Found New Mendes practically at the gates to Berlin

T6 1210AD

Workers work

T7 1220AD

The neighbors are getting edgier Only China has non-combatants inside our borders and the Rome and Germany are probing the borders with military

T8 1230AD

Julius drops by wanting a look at our maps Anytime Julie, just show me yours too

Rush a few buildings on the borders

T9 1240AD

Russians start Bach's

Found New-Ash between Minsk and Xinjan Rush Temple

Rome is in Anarchy

Add workers to Heliopolis to make use of all the improved ground

T10 1250AD

Workers working

Waiting for war We keep pushing at the borders on both sides but pretty soon everybody will be democrats, though Only Germany and the Iroquois remain as Ancien Regimes (Republics) Rome is in anarchy All others are Democracies We are down at least two techs to everybody No one has started Smith's but all are building Bach's Barracks are a'building in the western border towns and banks in the core By the time we get the banks up we should have a large enough treasury to benefit from Wall Street We are easing up on 300 gpt and have 641 on hand Mao has become everybody's tech broker and is practically giving the stuff Nobody has shown up with top-line techs They're probably busy building hordes of muskets and cavalry Our military is less than pitiful We have twice as many workers as muskets and spears scattered around No major concentrations As barracks come up I have been building muskets and shipping them to the western border towns Ther are a few undefended towns on the eastern border One galley is parked on the west caost and the other is hauling a musket/settler pair to what appears to be the last usable space in the west Most of the jungle is gone in the west but there is still a lot of rain forest in the Eastern peninsula The citizenry are overwhelmingly content; first set without any disorder, I think All those luxes and places of worship are keepng everybody in check We could crank up research spending towards Free Artistry to the four turn range without putting the treasury in the red, all those libraries, but it wouldn't make sense until we have a city ready to build the Globe Theatre I let the RoP's run without renegotiating to reduce fixed length treaty obligations to deals for technology or trade goods We are shipping ivory to everyone who needs it There are tradeable supluses in most goods and resources When a war starts we will want to let all deals expire quietly to increase the war weariness in the combatants as most are democracies I don't think anybody has researched Communism yet We may want to learn that next at fastest rate and trade it around, if that's the case

In summary Egypt is more than twice the size of China and three to thirty times the size of anybody else but future expansion will probably be the result of war rather than conversion as the core border towns are all pretty good size and probably have sizeable garrisons in them

Have fun, gorm
The Smilin' Egyptians (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_1250AD)

Can't wait to check the save. Sounds impressive Bede.

edit, your save seems to be malfunctioning.
Bede's Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_1250AD.SAV)

I've checked the save and it looks very good. We do need to build more culture in our aggressive cultural attacking cities, like New Busiris, New Kahun, New Mendes etc though.

There are some more nice saliants to settle into;
* SW of Asyut into the north of Azteca,
* Just 2 S of Koningsberg,
* N-NE of Hamburg, encircling the city,
* S-SE of Hamburg, completing the enciclement,
* NE-E of New Giza, an attack on the 2 Aztec cities in the East,
* N-NE of New Byblos, getting a border with Iroquois (Cultural dwarves).

I agree we had to neglect markets and banks, but we need them now, to pay for the cashrushes of cultural attack spots. After (or before) they are done; we are also in dire need for defenders.

I fear for an AI attack, especially Russia seems determined to attack our South-Western border. There are 1 sword and 2 warriors visible, and 9 of our workers under thread and no defense in de city of New El-ash. Time will tell.

Great work Bede! :goodjob:

Rik
vbraun
gormdragan - You're up!
bede - just played
Wizard

I got it!!!

Great! :)

And where is the turnlog & the save...?

On the way....will post tonight.

Ok, fine. :)

Preturn:

Everything looks good. I apologise for the delay. The Kings were playing the Rockets on Wednesday (and won) and played the Spurs last night (and won again), so I didn't have a chance to play for the past 2 days.

so here we go.

Rushed temple at New Mendes.
Swap El-Amarna to settler.
Swap Viroconium to settler.
Rushed rax at Buto.
Rushed cath at Sebennytus.

Press enter.

1255:
Alexandria makes musket, starts market.
Pi-Ramesses makes uni, starts market.
El-Amarna makes settler, starts rax.
Buto makes rax, starts musk.
Kahun makes uni, starts musk.
Sebennytus makes cath, starts settler.
New Mendes makes temple, starts library.

Rush lib at New Busiris.

I didn't realise we were behind on tech, I increase our research spending.

1260:
Abydos makes musket, starts musket.
New Giza makes musket, starts lib.
New Busiris makes lib, starts col.

Russians started smith's.

1265:
New Pi-Ramesses switch to settler.
New Avaris makes worker, starts lib.

Russians starts Shakespeare.

New Tanis founded, starts temple.

1270:
Free Artistry discovered, starts physics.

Elephantine makes market, starts bank.
Giza makes cath, starts market.
El-Amarna makes rax, starts musket.
Lisht makes rax, starts musket.
Oryx makes uni, starts market.
New Pi-Ramesses makes settler, starts library.

Konigsberg overthrown their oppressors and pledge their allegiance.starts temple.

Chinese starts Shakespeare.

Trade Free Artistry+Iron for Metallurgy+Physics+33g+WM.

Start TOG due in 40.

New Buhen founded, start temple.

1275:
Heliopolis makes bank, starts musket (this city can make defenders for a while).
Tanis makes musket, starts market.

Zulus starts Shakespeare.
Chinese starts Newton.
Romans starts JS Bach.

New Bubastis founded, starts temple.

Rush temple at New Buhen.
Rush temple at New Tanis.
Rush temple at Konigsberg.
Rush cath at El-Ashmunein.

1280:
New El-Ashmunein makes cath, starts lib.
New Tanis makes temple, start cath.
New Buhen makes temple, start cath.
New Bubastis rushes temple.

Lisht switches to settler.

1285:
Memphis makes bank, starts musket. (another defender maker).
Abydos makes musket, starts bank.
Asyut makes cath, starts market.
Avaris makes bank, starts settler.
Viroconium makes settler, starts rax.
Lisht makes settler, starts bank.
New El-Amarna makes temple, starts cathedral.
New Bubastis makes temple, starts cath.

Aztec starts Shakespeare.
Zulu starts Newton.

Rush cath in New Tanis.

1290:
Thebes makes smith, starts bank.
Alexandria makes market, starts MagV.
El-Amarna makes musket, starts market.
Hieraconpolis makes rax, starts market.
This makes musket, starts setter.
New Tanis makes cath, starts lib.

Rush cath in New Buhen.
Rush lib in New El-Ashmunein.

1295:
Heliopolis makes musket, starts musket.
Heidelburg makes lib starts market.
Buto makes musket starts market.
New El-Ashumuniein makes lib starts musket.
New Buhen makes cath, starts lib.

Romans starts Shakespeare.

New This founded, starts temple.

Rush cath at Bubastis.

1300:
Avaris makes settler, starts rax.
Kahun makes musket, starts musket.
New Bubastis makes cath, starts lib.

Rush cath at Pithom.
Rush cath at New Mendes.

We are down by TOG and magnetism, both researchable in 4 turns.

Next better player.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Cleopatra_of_the_Egyptians,_1300_AD.SAV)

Nice return gorm

Took a quick look at the file and have some ideas:

There are lots of luxes to trade and some wealthy neighbors who could use them

Since slowing hte research pace is desirable (thanks, Rik) suggest trading luxes to China, and the Zulu, and the Russians. Squeeze them for gpt rather than up-front payments.

It strikes me that since most of our neighbors are democracies shipping them luxes will make us indispensible to them, thus they will be less inclined to make war on us.

There is also a twofer possiblity as most everybody but Monte are up two techs and Monte only one. Could probably trade for Mag or Physics, then trade back to Monte for whatever he has
Haven't thought this one through yet it may be that our gpt surplus and libraries and univeristies are enough to keep us at tech parity without funding the other guys research



I'd also check out the building sites for Shake's and Bach's We should be able to get both but if not I'd go for Shake's (8cpt vs 6)
Look out for a cascade to Bach's if we finish Shake's Newton's is a'building in various cities if I remember but I don't think the scientific wonders are crucial to us with all the libraries, universities and gpt.

Don't do a 2fer. Those are techs we don't need, so we gain little and the tech race will speed ahead again.

Current play order:
vbraun-Skipped
Rik-Played on vbraun skip
Bede - played on Rik's pickup
gormdragan - Just played
Wizard-You want it?

I would go for JB instead of Shakespeare, the added advantage of 2 less unhappy citizen more than the 2 extra culture was we are not really that desperate for.

Nice turns. :thumbsup:

Ok, I could take it...

And the turnlog, part 1:

Preturn: Let's see how we are doing... not a bad look at all. :) I read the turnlog and comments once again to see what I need to do...

The Zulus are willing to trade 11 gpt + 6 gp for Gems. I like the sound of it, trade deal signed.

Cathy would be willing to trade 15gpt + 13 gp for Spices. trade signed.

China is poor, no deal.

Press enter...

IBT: Pi- Ramesses market > col.
Pithom cath > lib.
Tula riots...:cringe:
New Mendes cath > lib.

Russia starts Magellans.

China built Bachs! :eek:

Romans start Shake's.

1305AD [1]: Worker assignments. Buy a temple into New Beijing. Buy a temple into New This.

IBT: Memphis musket > musket.
Byblos changes from Bachs to Shake's.
El- Ashmunein cath > lib.
New Elephantine musket > lib.
New Beijing temple > cath.
New This temple > cath.
Tenochtitlan builds Shakes. :wallbash: And only because I wasn't careful enough with the Bach's...

All civs change to Magellans or Newtons.

1310AD [2]: I have no choice but to change Shake's to col. We lose a huge number of shields...:(

Build New Oryx > buy temple.

IBT: Heliopolis musket > musket.
Elephantine bank > col.
Byblos col > market.
New Edfu lib > uni.
New Oryx tem > cath.

1315AD [3]: :sleep:

IBT: Bizmarck wants to trade WM's. I agree.

Avaris rax > col.

1320AD [4]: Buy cath into New Oryx.
Build New Sebennytus > temple.
Buy temple into New Buto.
Buy cath in New Beijing.

IBT: Russia sneak- attacks us! :mad: They shall pay for this dearly... Their supersword kills a reg musket unscatched! :eek:

El- Amarna market > bank.
New Beijing cath > market.
New Buto lib > market.
New Oryx cath > lib.
Tamuin flips to us! :D > temple.

Rome is building Newtons.

1325AD [5]: Upgrade warrior to sword in Heliopolis.
Upgrade several defence units to muskets. Let's see what happens...

IBT: The Russians pillage a square and bring a few knights to the near areas of Kahun.

Thabes bank > wall street.
Giza market > rax.
Asyut market > lib.
Tanis market > uni.
Oryx market > rax.

Zulus build Newtons.

1330AD [6]: Our reg sword loses to a reg warrior on grassland... Try to put up a garrison in Kahun, let's hope it stands...

IBT: Our troops defeat two attacks. No losses.

Memphis musket > musket.
Heliopolis ditto.
Viroconium rax > lib.
New Helipolis lib > market.
We get a palace expansion! :yeah:

1335AD [7]: Now we have a good amont of troops in the Russian border cities...

IBT: Uh-oh. They have Cossacks. One beats a musket and leaves a town with only a sword defending it... this may become ugly.

Byblos market > lib.
Abydos bank > cannon.

1340AD [8]: Gotta go to eat... continuing later...

Ah, I'm back. Let's see... Move troops around to get a good defence everywhere.

IBT: The RNG isn't good to me. :( A Russian Longbow, a sword and a cossack kill muskets in New Edfu.

Heliopolis musket > musket.
Buto marketplace > musket.
Kahun musket > musket.
Yangchow temple > cath.
New Edfu musket > musket.
New Busiris musket > musket.
New El- Ash. musket > musket.

1345AD [9]: Buy muskets into many brder towns. Let's hope New Edfu doesn't fall.

IBT: Iroquois and Russia sign a TE against us.
We lose only 1 musket in the battles this turn.

Shaka want's to trade WM's. I agree.

Elephantine col > knight.
Hieraconpolis musket > musket.
Kahun musket > musket.
New Edfu musket > musket.
New Busiris musket > musket.
New El-Ash. musket > musket.

1350AD [10]: I'll let the next better player do the unit moving of the border towns. Good luck. You can do better than me...

Oh, and the save...:hammer: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz041350AD.SAV)

Who is up ?

Please sign Military Alliances with all nations against Russia. The point of war isn't that we get slaughtered, it's that we can legally settle in their territory. A Quick f4-check displays we can sign in China, Zulu, Aztecs and Rome for mere resources or luxuries. Give the Russians something to worry about. That will remove or at least diminish the forces they can throw at us. We can continue building up defender-stacks with settlers and settle in their lands. We have a good +562 gpt. That means a lot of defenders and culture build up in our aggressive settlements (level 5) ;)

Roster
Rik Meleet
vbraun
gormdragan
bede
Wizard

I think you're up, Rik

Ah well ok, then I got it. I hope I can play tonight.

I'm going to get this "minor disturbance" back into it's own mainland. I'm going to make an effort to remove the Russian bear from our lands and to paint the bear-cave in a yellow-spot design.

Great! :D I wish you luck: the RNG wasn't very good to me... swords won muskets...:rolleyes:

IHT. We need better defenders, rifles. I am going to trade us into the Industrial era.
Cancel Rop with Aztecs.
Trade with Aztecs: Mag + ToG + MT + alliance vs Russia + RoP <=> Saltpeter, Ivory, Gems, Furs, silks, WM + 48gpt.

We enter the Industrial age.

Trade China: Alliance Vs Russia + Nationalism + Steam <=> Ivory, Spices, WM, 235 gpt.

Cancel RoP with Zulu, cancel Ivory for 6pt with Zulu.
Trade with Zulu: Alliance + Rop + wines + WM + 32 gold + 7gpt <=> Steam.

Cancel Rop with Rome.
Trade with Rome: Alliance + Rop + WM + 9gpt + 88 gold <=> Saltpeter.

Cancel Rop with Germans.
Sign Alliance + Rop + worker + 4 gold + WM <=> nothing.

Cancel Rop with Iro's.
Sign Alliance + Rop + 1 gold + WM <=> nothing.

Sell Aztecs Nationalism <=> 63 gpt.

Now it's time to fight !

Upgrade some rifles in Hieraconpolis and other border cities. Upgrade some warriors to swords. Use sword in Hieracon to attack wounded cossack in Russia; wins!. Use warrior in New Edfu to attack wounded sword. Warrior dies (perhaps this was too naieve..).
Draft rifle in Buto. It attacks and kills warrior.
Switch new Edfu, new el-ash, kahun and new busiris to rax to upgrade defenders there.

Started rails.

IBT. Rome nearly kills russian cossack in our lands.
China wants to cancel Rop. Sign clean Rop.
Chinese Riders and Cavs nearly clean the field of the russians.
Iron Works message.
Palace expands.

1 - 1355 AD. Rifle kills redlined Cossack. Nearly all Russian troops are defeated. Massive Railroading started. Rush some barracks.

IBT. Chinese destroy all visible Russians.
Kahun starts settler. New Busiris too.

2 - 1360 AD. Upgrading to rifles in near-Russian cities.

IBT. When projects end, nearly all cities go into barracks or rifles.
Pisae (Aztec) flips to us. Temple.

3 - 1365 AD. Massive railroad duties appointed. Moving rifles to Kahun, rushed settler.

IBT. Russians are loosing fast to the Chinese.

4 - 1370 AD. Stack of 5 rifles and a settler move to grab some russian lands. Rush settler in Busiris. Continuing the Railroad.

5 - 1375 AD. Railroad finishes. Improving Thebes area. Moving Cavalry to railroad.

IBT. I'm almost feeling sorry for Russia. Almost. But then I remembered that They started the war. Fools.

6 - 1380 AD. Railroading Thebes and Byblos.

7 - 1385 AD. zzz

IBT Rome and Russia make Peace.

8 - 1390 AD. We found New Cairo inside Russia. Starts temple. Rushed temple. Move settler from This to warzone.

IBT Wall street finishes.

9 - 1395 AD. Found Thebes2 in Russian land. Starts and rushes temple. Moving new settler team to Russia through China. For some reason they got seperated. China has Industrialisation. Russia wants to talk. They are down to 6 cities. We can't get any.

10 1400 AD. 2 Stacks of 3 rifles, settler and cavalry are heading to Russia's core to snatch land. Rushed some culture in Border cities. Moved some rifles to Kahun, which will produce our next settler. Also started some markets and banks. It's a money game now.

I stopped research completely. All our core cities are now connected by Railroad, it's time to improve our core. Railroad everywhere.
The Russians are history. But don't make peace; their lands will be freed up or conquered by China. That leaves open patches. Keep building Rifles and settler-teams to grab land. But be aware of China; they are strong. They could Sneak attack us. And you know what that means; An all out Alliance on China (same for every country). The AI fights eachother and our "Cultural Domination stacks" grab all the land. We have a winner here !

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Chart_1400_AD..JPG

The Save 1400 AD. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Wiz04_1400AD.SAV)

And oh yeah; this is what Mapstat says:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Mapstat_1400_AD..JPG

:goodjob:, guys
Good recovery from sneak attack, Wiz (Did Russia have a government change?)
Way to dogpile, Rik

@Wiz
If you agree I have time to play tomorrow and we can reorder the roster this way:
Rik-just played
Bede-up
vbraun-on deck
gorm
Wizard

If vbraun checks in between now and tomorrow AM (-5GMT, here) then gorm could follow vbraun and we are back in the rotation


Originally posted by Wizard
Roster
Rik Meleet
vbraun
gormdragan
bede
Wizard

Up to you, let me know

Ok to me, Bede. :)


Great turns, Rik, as usual. :goodjob: