It is time to at least start mapping out future LK games. This is the future plans for the conquest series:

LK World Map - I need to upgrade and redo the game for conquest. This game could not survive without a working fp and the gpt bug around. This will not start until these issues are patched. We would play at demigod, but minus the extra settler.

Lets go medieval -
Conquest #4, the middle ages that is a full blown 540 turn game.

Let's find the new world -
Conquest #6, Age of Discovery. The game is just 150 turns. I am not sure if 5 of 10 player turns map more sense.

Back to Europe -
Conquest #8, Napoleonic Europe. As the game is just 96 turns, each player round would be just 5 turns.

Victory in the pacific -
Conquest #9, WWII in the pacific. This is a large # of units, but short scenario. Each player round would be just 5 turns.

Generic Demigod Game -
A basic game using one of the new civs.

I don't plan any conquest variants or deity games until the GPT bugs and FP bug is fixed.

Let me know what sounds interesting.

Lee

Going Medievil sounds like it would be interesting to me.

Conquest #4
meldor


Conquest #6


Conquest #8


Conquest #9


Generic Demigod Game

I think Middle ages is the way to go !

Conquest #4
meldor
hotrod0823


Conquest #6


Conquest #8


Conquest #9


Generic Demigod Game

I'd have interest in #4 for sure, and possibly #6. I'd like to be able to say I actually was able to win a game with you. After that allways war/never resources game, I'm ready to try again :).

I would like game #4. Game #6 as dutch would be a challenge, although the FP issues will make it perhaps a bit too harsh.

Grimjack

Conquest #4 is FULL.

I will get it started later today.

As my signature says - I am taking a break from civ.

I feel the GPT bug has really screwed the game up. A perfect example was LOTR11 with Egypt sitting on absurd amount of cash due to the bug. We did take all those Egypt cities and cash rushed massive amount of units due to the cash. Instead of an interesting fight - the game was a blowout in the end.


The gpt bug is also screweing with the science pace, and other issues. For the moment the 3 LK games will finish. Nothing new until the gpt issue is fixed. I even wonder if some of the alliance insanity in LK57 is due to gpt and more money for people to spend.

This thread will reopen with game ideas once the game is fixed.

I read that a patch is due in mid January. I'll be holding back from playing C3C until then also.

Lee, I have to concur with your point of view. With LotR11 finished, I am only committed to MLDR04 - all other civving activity has stopped.

The GPT and corruption bugs are game breakers in my opinion, and until they're fixed, this game is not fun to play.

I'm with you on that as well. Im going back to ptw till it is fixed. Not just the gpt, but the broken FP is ruining the fun as well. Humans are usually much better at placing an FP than the AI, and the fact that we can't build the FP in RBC3a might end up being a diffrence maker.

the broken FP is ruining the fun as well.

Believe me I was disgusted in LK56 when I got a military leader, rushed the fp, and got NOTHING for it. It is worse now that I realize how much better armies are.

Ouch, I didn't know the discontent ran so deep. I'm enjoying the expansion quite a bit so far, but I've avoided going too deep in difficulty yet because of the severity of the bugs. It's like playing a variant where you can't build an FP and where the AI get large economic bonuses :P

It's basically a conflict of expectations vs reality. On some of your game the difficulty/game choices were made to achieve a certain level of difficulty, and now through no fault of your own the games are more or less screwed. I didn't have much in the way of expectations yet and so when something unexpected occurs such that a scenario game is very much in jeopardy for a very strong SG team, I think that's great ;) Like you said too, the new armies have been a blast.

In any case, I do agree they're major issues and do look forward to a patch asap. Keeping the game in moderation til then will be nice in avoiding burnout, and some other players who were on the edge of burnout now have a very good reason to take a breather and relax with something else for several weeks.

Charis

Aggie posted this at CDZ, unfortunately this only the BETA patch, so who knows how long we'll have to wait for the real one:
But at least they're already working on patching something...


Aggie:
-----------------------------------------------
Firaxis will be releasing a BETA patch (v1.10):

Updates BETA v1.10:
CIV III: CONQUESTS BETA v1.10
* Fixed issues with corruption

* Fixed issues with double gold being awarded

* Shifted minimap and unit info boxes slightly
inward to prevent problems with scrolling and
button-clicking.

* Re-enabled Intel optimizations from PTW.

* Fixed issue that caused scientific leaders to
use only the first name in the list.

* Fixed issue that caused selections on the
Foreign Advisor screen to be cleared.

* Modified combat calculations to make combat
appear less "streaky." Combat results are now
calculated multiple times before determining a
result. This should reduce spearman defeating
Tanks and other extremely frustrating combat
results.

* Optimized main menu code.

* Cleaned up INI preferences code

* Fixed issue with the audio preferences (sound
volume).

* Greatly improved the ability of Seafaring civs
to start near the coast. It should happen most
of the time now.

* Fixed numerous problems with Seafaring civs
starting near the coast in hotseat games.

* Implemented Seafaring civs starting near the
coast in MP games.

* Updated the interface on the world chooser
screen so selected options were more apparent.

* Fixed upgrade all bug (for units that do not
have the upgrade ability but are part of the
upgrade chain).

* Added feminine titles for Despotism,
Feudalism, and Fascism (for English default
rules only!).

* Editor: Added Flavors to the Import dialog.

* Corrected display of silk as luxury in city
view in Rise of Rome

* Corrected Scourge of God splash screen art in
Fall of Rome

* Build road/fort animations now show for
Legionary in Fall of Rome

* Cataphract now uses Ancient Cavalry art in
Middle Ages

* Corrected Mining tech art in Age of Discovery

* Text: Several civilopedia fixes (mostly
spelling, grammar, spaces)

---------------- Features --------------------
* Implemented ability to enter a seed value on
the world setup screen. It is located in the
upper-right corner. Any character can be entered
as the seed. If the seed is 0 (the default), it
will generate the world normally. If every
character is a number, the value is interpreted
as the seed value and used to generate the
world. In all other cases, a hash table formula
is applied to the string to generate a unique
value that is used to generate the world. While
it is technically possible for two different
strings to evaluate to the same seed, it is
unlikely (i.e., SEED is not the same as DEES --
upper- and lower-case letters will yield
different results as well).

* Implemented the "Play Last World" option. This
option appears on the main menu after playing
the first SP random-map game. When chosen, the
player is taken to the world chooser with the
seed filled in and all the previous settings
selected. The player can make any changes or
keep the world exactly the same. Note that if
ANY changes are made on this screen, the map
that is generated will be different. Next the
player is taken to the player setup screen with
all the civs and settings from the previous game
selected. Again, the player can make any changes
or keep the settings the same. If ANY civs are
changed, player starting locations MAY change
(depending on the number of seafaring civs,
actually).

* Implemented support for CAPS LOCK to work as
the SHIFT key to skip unit movement animations
(so you don't have to hold shift for the AI's
turn to skip the animations).

* The MP timer values are now read from
scenarios (the default values remain unchanged).

* Editor: Added MP timer values to the Scenario
Properties. There are 3 values: Base, Per Unit,
and Per City (with defaults of 24, 1, and 3,
respectively). They represent the Base amount of
time per turn + the amount of time Per Unit +
the amount of time Per City (number of
units/cities used each turn are based on the
player with the most units and the player with
the most cities on that turn). The values can
range from 0-100. The higher the number, the
more time per turn. FOR INTENSE FAST MP GAMES
PLAY THE CONQUESTS FAST MP scenario that is
provided with the Patch.

Good news? I'd say so.
--------------------------------------------------

* Modified combat calculations to make combat
appear less "streaky." Combat results are now
calculated multiple times before determining a
result. This should reduce spearman defeating
Tanks and other extremely frustrating combat
results.


This is terrible news. The PRNG worked well before and now it will, indeed, be more predictable, as was the complaint. I'm extremely disappointed. Randomness is streaky. Non-streaky means not random means exploitable means less fun. Bah!

Arathorn

P.S. Where's the link where this is listed, so I can complain there, too?

Originally posted by Charis
Ouch, I didn't know the discontent ran so deep.

I suggest you read around - LOTR10 now has 2 players who don't want to try Sid again until post patch. Many other threads have people really annoying with the fp / gpt bugs.


As for me - Galactic Civ is being played. Got my first normal game that feels like strong position with building 3 of the early wonders. I only have planets in my home section - build all those 13/14 with double PQ improvements have created a 7 or 8 decent worlds. :D

I just hope I can get back into civ post patch...
To many other things starting to fill in that time.

Those would be enormous improvements. Lets hope they come through soon!

I'm with Arathorn on his comments about

"* Modified combat calculations to make combat
appear less "streaky." Combat results are now
calculated multiple times before determining a
result. "

:eek:

Perhaps this is just poorly worded, but that phrasing is just plain ignorant. 'Streaky', if that were true at all would be due to a poorly implemented prng, and if that were so it should be fixed. "Modifiying" calculations to avoid upsets would turn combat into a total rock-scissors-papers game and utterly ruin combat. :mad:

Let's say one took a 'best of 3' approach to who wins:
50-50% remains 50-50 (as it would for best of 'any')
67-33% chance becomes 74/26%
80-20% chance becomes 90/10%

But it gets worse, as that's just one shot. In Civ3, the roll is made for each HP - which is the main design mechanism for avoiding spear vs tank wins already. So let's look at a scheme where a longbow takes on a spear, both vets. For each die roll (each hp) the longbow has a 2/3 chance of winning that round (4 / (4+2)) if there's no defense bonus.

The chance for the spear to win is not 33%, but rather the binomial result of having to go through a best-of-7 world series (ie first one to score four wins is the victor, due to the hps)
At present then, the underdog's chance to win are
0.33^7 + 7*0.33^6*0.67 + 21*0.33^5*0.67^2 + 35*0.33^4*0.67^3 = 17.3% i.e., out in the open, the longbow beats down the spear 82.7% of the time, which is about right.

What would it mean to make each 'shot' for one hp the best 2 of 3 rerolls? The longbow's chances go up to 92%, so you've cut the chances of the spear winning by over a factor of two. That's a huge effect for a pretty small change. If the new averaging process were to be best 3-of-5, the odds go to 96% vs 4%.

Some more examples:
A) longbow vs a spear with bonus so it's 4 on 3: now wins 65%, a best 2-of-3 averaging would see him win 72%. (best 3-of-5 -> 77%)
B) You have several cav going to go up against fortified rifles in a city, let's say attack 6 vs modified defense of 12. At present the cav will win 17% of the time. Best 2-of-3 avg makes that 8%, and best 3-of-5 cuts it to 4%, yikes!
C) Make those infantry fortified in a tough city and how does it look? Let's use modified defense 18, currently the cav would win 7% of the time. Bad odds, but throw in retreats and with a little bombard support you have a chance if well played. Best 2-of-3 avg would win just 1.4%, and 3-of-5 cuts that to 0.3%. Double yikes!

I'll have to look at the thread and try to figure out what this beta is going to try to do. The other improvements do sound good though :goodjob:

EDIT -- I should have looked in the other thread first. They re-roll each shot 4 times and in case of tie, do it one more time. That makes it a best-of-5 in that you need 3 roll-wins no matter what.
So look at the best-of-5 results above.

Charis

(PS as far as LOTR10... well, that's why it's "scouting" Sid! I sure hope they didn't expect to beat it first time around for a 1.0 version. Heck, if they do, it's not Sid-ly enough!)

Check out

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71474

where the announcement of the public beta was made (make sure you read post http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1424703#post1424703) and

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71519

for a thread dedicated to the new combat system.

It makes my skin crawl just thinking about how broken it will be. And the thing is, all it does is make the difference in strengths more important...it will still be just as streaky (with modified odds) as the old system. Blech. Chime in with your disapproval where it has a good chance of being read.

(Edit: As for LotR10, I think we're all happy we're playing it, but we're not going to try again until things are fixed. It's not about losing -- it's about a broken game. And, Lee, sorry for the threadjack.)

Arathorn

The beta patch will be out next week. See todays front page for more info.
Here is the related link http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71474

Thanks for the links, I did catch these. I also drew up a graph for the results of this best-3-of-5 approach, and responded in the thread mentioned. For completeness, I'll show a link to the graph here, where the x-axis is old/existing overall probability of winning and the y-axis would be the new proposed probability...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/NewCombatGraph.jpg

That's brutal on both ends, 80%->95%, 90%->99%.
Impact will be rather large on:
- How much more important artillery/bombardment will be
- The pre-tank era of cav vs infantry
- The dominance of immortals, mounted warriors, hoplites, berzerks (gasp!), musketeers and other "best-of-breed" UU's which stand out from their contemporaries.

But... the linearity in the central part of the graph suggests things aren't going to be hopeless or 'broken'. A 60% chance to win just goes up to 68%, and a 70% chance goes up to 83%. Folks who know how to use terrain, know what the bonuses are, know how to use artillery, will continue to separate themselves who do not. Gosh, we may even see more catapults built and used - and trebuchets will really distinguish themselves as a welcome addition to the game compared to vanilla/ptw.

'Most' warfare is in the nearly linear range of 33-66%, eg archers on warriors or spears, swords on spears, horses on spears, knights on pikes, longbows on knights, cav on rifles in towns, tanks on infantry, MA on Mech. Where it will matter *more* is MDI vs spear, swords on muskets, cav on pikes, cav on infantry, and increasing your city's population in era of tank on infantry.

Charis

This change has absolutely nothing to do with 'streakiness'. Sirp and I ran some tests a while back, and Civ3's RNG is not streaky at all. Any result is equally likely to be followed by any other result. This hasn't changed.

This is 100% pandering to the whiners that had spearmen beating their tanks. Nobody seems to understand (I'm preaching to the choir in this thread, I know) that that happening on occasion is a *designed feature* of the game, to reduce the impact of drastic technology and resource differences and give the little guy a bit more of a chance.

Seems the hordes don't want balance; they just want to crush anything in sight. And Firaxis caved. Way to patch a minor issue and totally blow the balance of the rest of the game.

Now where's that GalCiv purchase page...

Originally posted by T-hawk
Now where's that GalCiv purchase page...


Well I already own it.
If the Combat gets as screwed as I feel it could - that may become my primary game.

New info (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1426112#post1426112) has been posted in the combat thread.

Think of each round of combat as the attacker rolling dice to see if they hit the defender. If the number rolled is greater than or equal to the defense value, the attacker hits; otherwise, the defender hits. The change we made was to the way the attacker rolls the dice. The attacker now rolls multiple times and the result is the average of all the rolls.

Charis, care to run some more binomial graphs? Also, was your previous graph showing the outcomes of each HP battle or each entire combat (you can run for 4 HP as the most common case) ?

So it sounds they're going to do the equivalent of replacing a 1d12 roll with a 2d6 roll.

As if increasing the cost of the Jaguar Warrior to twenty shields didn't cripple it enough, this sure will! EDIT: Now I have the game I see it's fifteen shields, that'll still make it a good unit.

This will magnify even small differences, so that things like fortifying will be critical. Sounds like a warrior attacking another warrior fortified on grassland will have only ~35% chance to win.

Sirp

:cry:
I still dont want to believe this is really happening....

T-hawk, since it's likely to get lost in the thread (now buried 5 pages behind the current post, as it is), here's the Graph you requested -- it looks at the overall battle of two vet units:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/NewCombatGraphFour.jpg

"Notice in particular how steep the 'battle' curve gets if you average four rolls. It gets steeper if elites instead of vets are used.

There are two lines in the plot. Ignoring retreats, a 4 attack vet vs a modified 7-defense unit, like MDI or Knight on Musket fortified in a city. Currently a 22% chance to win the battle, would be 4.6% rolling twice, or just 0.6% rolling four times. Huge difference! Second ex: 6 attack cav is coming after my fortified pikeman (mod defense of 4). The attack ratio of 1.5 means a 60% chance of winning any given hp translates to a 71% chance to win under the current system, up to 83% if avg of two rolls, and up to 93% with four rolls. :eek:

The hp scheme and the avg-rolls scheme both try to steepen the curve, but the combination is especially potent in effect. " :hammer:

Charis

This whole debate has been done over and over again in many Strategy games, dating back to the roll-the-dice board wargames in the 70's .

The real core issue is that this sub-genre (Turn-based Strategy Games) attracks fans who are very detail oriented and factual based. I dare say that many of us are borderline anal-retentive, but that may not be a popular observation! *ahem* Anyways. A certain percentage of these fans like the certainty of an outcome and like to reduce all elements of randomness as much as possible in the issue of "fairness". The problem arises in that this kills the fun of playing the game in the first place! Randomness has its place in these games, and striking the balance line of unfair randomness and enough randomness to make a game addictive is a very fine art that will never be agreed upon by more than half of a particular game's fans.

My opinion is they shouldn't have messed with the calculations.

Originally posted by Rubberjello
This whole debate has been done over and over again in many Strategy games, dating back to the roll-the-dice board wargames in the 70's .

I am not the only wargamer hear? :D

=================

from Jesse (via mail)
The change to the combat system has been cut from the v1.10 Patch

[dance] [dance] [dance]

from Jesse (via mail)
The change to the combat system has been cut from the v1.10 Patch

[dance] [dance] [dance] [/B]

It is good to know that they listen...

Or perhaps they just tested it and realized how much it would screw up the game :)

-Sirp.

It is time to start the debate for LK60. Long-term plans include another world map game, but I haven't finished upgrading the game to conquests. This also needs a lot of play testing, as I had to rebuild all unit upgrade paths and civs again.

Always War (monarchy) - Armies clearly help the military side, but how bad does the inability to rush key wonders (Sun Tzu, Leo's, Great Library, etc.) hurt? By late game we could afford a city to get ToE, but the early game is a much harder challenge.

European Epic - Once again we play the Europe scenario, except this time we MOD the scenario to eliminate victory points, make the game length 540 turns, etc to play like a typical game. Yes, that means domination is 2/3rd of the map!

New World - We will play the new world scenario. Nothing else special.

Slow Moving Civ - Fast moving units may only operate within our borders. To initiate an attack outside of our borders we must send in the infantry (swords, mdi, rifles, etc). Slow moving bombard units may join the stack. This will be played at Emperor.

Signed up:
Always War
LKendter

European Epic
LKendter

New World
LKendter

Slow Moving Civ
LKendter

It was a long time since I played an Always War. They are always a challenge, and it would be fun to see if the new might of armies will outweight the inability to rush wonders.

European Epic left me with a bone to pick as well. I would want a rematch against the uppity Abbasids.

Grimjack

Signed up:
Always War
LKendter
Grimjack


European Epic
LKendter
Grimjack


New World
LKendter


Slow Moving Civ
LKendter

I :love: bombardment, so I would be interested in the slow moving civ game. I would be interested in the New World one also, but I can't do both simultaneously.

I can't do both simultaneously.
I only plan to do the one with the most interest. No clear winner yet...


Signed up:
Always War
LKendter
Grimjack


European Epic
LKendter
Grimjack


New World
LKendter
Rubberjello


Slow Moving Civ
LKendter
Rubberjello

Not much interest so far.

Is there anything you would like to see here?

I would play the AW game if it were AWE and on a standard map, and I would also play the New World Scen. I have no preference between the two assuming you're willing to up the difficulty of the AW game and keep the map size down. I couldn't commit to a 48hr turnround for an AW game on a large map.

I would play the AW game if it were AWE
Sorry, but I am going to stick with Monarchy. LOTR12 blowout is why I don't want AWE.



Signed up:
Always War
LKendter
Grimjack


European Epic
LKendter
Grimjack


New World
LKendter
Rubberjello
mad-bax



Slow Moving Civ
LKendter
Rubberjello

I like the New World Scenario and the European epic. I will have a new PC soon, so no problem with a slow game anymore by then :)

EDIT: Slow moving civ sounds good as well. So I am game for all suggestions except AWM.

Signed up:
Always War
LKendter
Grimjack


European Epic
LKendter
Grimjack
Aggie


New World
LKendter
Rubberjello
mad-bax
Aggie


Slow Moving Civ
LKendter
Rubberjello
Aggie


Now some games are getting close. :D
It looks like we may be heading to the new world.

Time for another LK game after my early exit from Middle Ages, Europe is out :p.

I would be up for an AWM game or the Slow movers or if possible a Slow moving AW game ;)

Signed up:
Always War
LKendter
Grimjack
hotrod0823


European Epic
LKendter
Grimjack
Aggie


New World
LKendter
Rubberjello
mad-bax
Aggie


Slow Moving Civ
LKendter
Rubberjello
Aggie
hotrod0823



We now have 2 games at 4, and others getting close. Who wants to break the tie?

I have a question about the Europe epic, does that mean the Middle Ages tech tree, or standard Epic tech tree? Not sure how that tech tree would work over 540 turns (or however long it took to domination). But it does sound intriguing.

The Europe epic would use the Middle Ages tech tree. The only changes would be game length, no victory points and the domination requeirement.

I would be interested in the Europe epic, count me in!

Signed up:
Always War
LKendter
Grimjack
hotrod0823


European Epic
LKendter
Grimjack
Aggie
Justus II


New World
LKendter
Rubberjello
mad-bax
Aggie


Slow Moving Civ
LKendter
Rubberjello
Aggie
hotrod0823


What a dead heat - we have 3 games @4 interested.
Does someone want to break the tie?

If nobody else votes by tomorrow, I will simply pick one of the games @4 and start it.

For Slow Moving Civ, are you going to have any stipulations to mandate going to war, or could it end up being just be a turtle-up-until-space type of game?

Also, does the restriction include ships (exploration or combat), aircraft, or 2-move infantry armies? (Or military GLs :) ) I might interested depending on the answers to these. Also, I think this crew could handle it on Demigod - is that an option?

For Slow Moving Civ the target win in domination.

Is Demigod difficulty an option for Slow Moving Civ? I think this crew could do it. If you run it on Demigod, I'm in.

Signed up:
Always War
LKendter
Grimjack
hotrod0823


European Epic
LKendter
Grimjack
Aggie
Justus II


New World
LKendter
Rubberjello
mad-bax
Aggie


Slow Moving Civ
LKendter
Rubberjello
Aggie
hotrod0823
T-hawk ????

@Slow Moving Civ signups - do we make this demi-god?

Sure. We do get to make Infantry armies, right? (2 move)

OK - we have a second vote for demigod. We certainly can build armies. Of course, and army of anything other then grunts would be silly.

One more VOTE for demigod and I start the game provided my #%!#% laptop doesn't decide to shut itself of again and not turn back on....

Do you have a civ in mind to play as? Too bad no civs have a Medieval Infantry based UU, as that'd be the most appropriate. Persia could work quite well (the equivalent of cheaper MDIs all through the middle ages), or Scandinavia. Rome and Carthage also have decent infantry UUs.

sure demi it is.

Slow Moving Civ
LKendter
Rubberjello (may start it)
Aggie
hotrod0823
T-hawk

==================

The game is Slow Moving Civ. The game choice is made. Since I won't have a working laptop until Tuesday we have plenty of time to discuss the specs...

I will need to detail the rules by the main rule is infantry / artillery only outside our borders.

========================

Let's start the civ discussion. I want one of the new civs. LK59 = Portugal. LK56 = Dutch. Lotr11=Mayan. I would prefer one of the remaining new civs. No expansionist with scouts please...

Well, the only new civ with an infantry UUs that you haven't played is Sumeria with the 1-2-1 Enkidu Warrior. You've played with the Mayan 2-2-1 Javelin Thrower and Dutch 1-4-1 Swiss Mercenary. Sumeria is agricultural and scientific; agri is always good and having one of the cheap culture traits is very preferable when targeting domination. So, how does Sumeria sound?

Sumeria with the 1-2-1 Enkidu Warrior - Another lousy UU.
This pretty much forces a depostic GA. :(

It may be the choice, but let's see other ideas.

I don't think we have much of a choice.

The only others that aren't "fast" units as UU's are the Byzantines. But that is a ship :p. Inca's have the scout, Austria is a cav replacement, Hiittites a 3-man chariot.

Who else am I missing?

Great LK!

Can you 'join me' in 2 games?

Cheers,
Stapel

Well I hate early GA, but Sumeria it is....
I will start the LK60 thread.

===================

@Stapel - sorry, you just missed for LK60. LK61 should start sometime soon.

Reading the conditions of 'slow moving civ', we are allowed to use fast units within our borders. So we COULD have a fast unit to trigger our AI. I already play Sumeria in one game, but that is not a problem. Any civ is ok with me.

European Epic - Once again we play the Europe scenario, except this time we MOD the scenario to eliminate victory points, make the game length 540 turns, etc to play like a typical game. Yes, that means domination is 2/3rd of the map!


New World - We will play the new world scenario. The game features nothing special.


Simply deity - I have played the following new civs: Portugal, Dutch, Maya, Sumeria, and Inca. It would be one of the two new civs left I haven't played.


Fast moving Civ - The level will be demigod. We can build infantry for defense and can move them within our cultural borders. All fighting outside of our borders must be by speed 2 or greater units. Infantry armies would stay inside our borders. It would be one of the two new civs left I haven't played.



Coming soon: The monster map is coming back. Time for a new LK World map game!

Not a signup, but a suggestion - the unlockable civ of Austria with a 7-3-3 cavalry UU might work real well for Fast Moving Civ.

I'm interested in Fast Moving and Simply Deity.

Simply deity: I've played a lot of Byzantine games and like something else for a change, but it IS my favorite new civ. I haven't played the Hittites yet.

Fast moving: The Celts and Iroquois are almost new civs (agricultural) and have fast moving UU's. I like the Austria idea as well, but I have played them before in RBC6 or 7.

Like Aggie, I would love to play in the Fast moving, or Simply Deity, but with preference for Fast moving.

I am hoping I can get revenge upon the Medieval nations trying Rus for a Conquest win.....

Grimjack

European Epic -


New World -


Simply deity -
Grimjack
Aggie


Fast moving Civ -
Grimjack
Aggie

Any other interest out there?

I justed PMed Stapel to see if anything sounds good to him.

If you need a another, pencil me in...

European Epic -
meldor

New World -
meldor

Simply deity -
Grimjack
Aggie
meldor

Fast moving Civ -
Grimjack
Aggie
meldor

I will take Pencil me in as any game.
I will give Stapel 24 hours to answer PM. If no answer by then - next person to express interest will start fast moving civ...

Fast moving as Austria sounds interesting.

Pencil me in for any one (probably Europe).

Count me in for fast moving.

Really appreciate this LK!

Fast moving Civ -
LKendter
Grimjack
Aggie
meldor
Stapel (as I said in my post - gave priority for 24 hours).

Time to pick the civ for tonight...
Can anyone explain "unlocking" Austria and the possible problems...

It is explained here and I had no troubles:

Austrian SG (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73878)

EDIT: the info is at the end of Charis's first turns.

Originally posted by LKendter
Can anyone explain "unlocking" Austria and the possible problems... Look at MLDR004 for possible problems. We had no UU and twice things were missing from the Pediaicon.txt.

Here's a post on the RB board with more complete info:

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=189557&messageid=1075498409

:( Oh well the rest are just too big for me.

Hotrod

Originally posted by meldor
Look at MLDR004 for possible problems. We had no UU and twice things were missing from the Pediaicon.txt.

I don't think this came out quite as Meldor intended. We got our Hussars in MLDR04, after some manipulation of Pediaicons.txt, and they were great fun to use. But we weren't allowed to build tanks, presumably because the Austrians were considered to be occupying the Germans' slot in the game, and the Germans build Panzers (which we didn't get, of course) instead. So if you use the Austrians, pay attention to which civ they seem to be replacing.

My plans will be for Austria - however, the game start will take a bit as I want to test drive a bit before starting the game.

Originally posted by Northern Pike


I don't think this came out quite as Meldor intended. We got our Hussars in MLDR04, after some manipulation of Pediaicons.txt, and they were great fun to use. But we weren't allowed to build tanks, presumably because the Austrians were considered to be occupying the Germans' slot in the game, and the Germans build Panzers (which we didn't get, of course) instead. So if you use the Austrians, pay attention to which civ they seem to be replacing. You are spot on, I have been way too busy lately. Yes we got the hussars and made good use of them. Of course, with all the experts playing, we didn't even miss the tanks. The Hussar armies took them all out.

edit, nvm, sorry.

I am happy to report I have a valid Austria mod that removed Sumeria.

I played a test game up to Military Tradition and got to build Hussars that tripped a GA. I will start LK62 tomorrow (heading to sleep in 10 minutes).

Are you still going to do the AoD one? I would like to join for that one. :)

At the moment nothing more planned. I was trying to start one game. Of course at the rate LK61 is going may anounce another opening soon. ;)

Some ideas for LK66

1) AWM with 20K.
Totally conflicting goals as with must be at war with the world, AND our only valid way to win is by 20K. This means our second city must be immediately devoted to culture. We can't get rushed wonders via military leaders, so this could get really tough.
Previous deity military win required.


2) AWE
Enough said - I make another attempt at what caused one of the only losses for the LK series. :(
Previous deity military win required.

3) The pacifist Civ - we can never start a war, and must seek peace quickly. The wars must end when the AI offers peace.


4) Simply deity - I don't have to say anything more.


Long term ideas - both in the future due to the RBC series having too much activity.
Age of discovery variants -
One of my ideas is to win as the Europeans without treasure, or a Europeans culture win (is that possible?)

Middle ages fun -
I still would like to simply win as this also caused a loss in the LK series. I also would like to play a variant to attempt a domination win.

I'd be interested in doing an AWE. JB2 should be wrapping up soon (I desperately hope), and my AWM game was fun but left something to be desired.

1) AWM with 20K.
Previous deity military win required.
Signed up:
LKendter


2) AWE
Previous deity military win required.
Signed up:
LKendter
JustBen


3) The pacifist Civ
Signed up:
LKendter


4) Simply deity -
Signed up:
LKendter

I would do AWE

1) AWM with 20K.
Previous deity military win required.
Signed up:
LKendter


2) AWE
Previous deity military win required.
Signed up:
LKendter
JustBen
meldor


3) The pacifist Civ
Signed up:
LKendter


4) Simply deity -
Signed up:
LKendter

Now that forums are back, I am bumping this up to try and fill the game.

I will be up for AWE or the AWM with 20K.

1) AWM with 20K.
Previous deity military win required.
Signed up:
LKendter
hotrod0823


2) AWE
Previous deity military win required.
Signed up:
LKendter
JustBen
meldor
hotrod0823


3) The pacifist Civ
Signed up:
LKendter


4) Simply deity -
Signed up:
LKendter

Do sign me up for the AWM 20K.

Grimjack

1) AWM with 20K.
Previous deity military win required.
Signed up:
LKendter
hotrod0823
Grimjack


2) AWE
Previous deity military win required.
Signed up:
LKendter
JustBen
meldor
hotrod0823


3) The pacifist Civ
Signed up:
LKendter


4) Simply deity -
Signed up:
LKendter


We now have a race between AWM 20K and AWE. Who wants the last slots?

Also, I still have one world map opening - check it out at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84143

I am closing ideas #3 and #4. I am still going to try and fill at least one the below games:


1) AWM with 20K.
Previous deity military win required.
Signed up:
LKendter
hotrod0823
Grimjack


2) AWE
Previous deity military win required.
Signed up:
LKendter
JustBen
meldor
hotrod0823

I don't want to start a game without 5 people. I am going to give the above another 48 horus and then I will have to declare these ideas dead - it is already 4 days for these openings...

If it is just one person lacking, sign me up for the AWE instead then.

Grimjack

I will get the AWE going tonight - conditional upon getting a start that survives the first 20 turns. ;)

It is time for another round of ideas as LK62 is almost over. Here are my latest ideas:
1) Simply deity with no special additions.
Signed up LKendter


2) Fast moving civ, version 2. Only fast units may attack.
This time it is deity and a standard size map.
Signed up LKendter


3) Slow moving civ, version 2. Only slow moving units may attack.
This time it is deity and a standard size map.
Signed up LKendter


4) Sid attempt.
I am not sure how many of these I will do, so if you are interested better take this one.
Signed up LKendter


5) The 20K challenge, emperor or demigod. Open for player vote.
It has been ages since I did a 20K city victory. With C3C and military leader that can't rush wonders, it could make this harder.
Signed up LKendter

LKendter, sir,

Would appreciate the opportunity for a slot in 5) 20K challenge.

It is doable at emperor, , even as OCC, so maybe try at demi-god?

RBC38 Results (http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/epic38results.html)

I would like to try the 20K SG. I haven't tried one since the rules change for non-rushing Wonders by Military Leaders, so I'm a tad inexperienced on exactly how to accomplish this on Emporer and above for now...

1) Simply deity with no special additions.
Signed up
LKendter


2) Fast moving civ, version 2. Only fast units may attack.
This time it is deity and a standard size map.
Signed up
LKendter


3) Slow moving civ, version 2. Only slow moving units may attack.
This time it is deity and a standard size map.
Signed up
LKendter


4) Sid attempt.
I am not sure how many of these I will do, so if you are interested better take this one.
Signed up
LKendter


5) The 20K challenge, emperor or demigod. Open for player vote.
It has been ages since I did a 20K city victory. With C3C and military leader that can't rush wonders, it could make this harder.
Signed up
LKendter
Bede
Rubberjello

Originally posted by Bede
It is doable at emperor, , even as OCC, so maybe try at demi-god?
RBC38 Results (http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/epic38results.html)

Certainly. My first OCC was at emperor and it was really smooth with a standard archipelago map.

I'm wondering if I could sign up for the 1st deity game? I haven't beaten it yet.

1) Simply deity with no special additions.
Signed up
LKendter
microbe
One deity newbie is enough - I want experienced for the rest of the slots


2) Fast moving civ, version 2. Only fast units may attack.
This time it is deity and a standard size map.
Signed up
LKendter


3) Slow moving civ, version 2. Only slow moving units may attack.
This time it is deity and a standard size map.
Signed up
LKendter


4) Sid attempt.
I am not sure how many of these I will do, so if you are interested better take this one.
Signed up
LKendter


5) The 20K challenge, emperor or demigod. Open for player vote.
It has been ages since I did a 20K city victory. With C3C and military leader that can't rush wonders, it could make this harder.
Signed up
LKendter
Bede
Rubberjello

I'd like to sign up for the Sid attemp with normal aggression and randomly selected map (not a pre-checked or custom map) with a food bonus and river on start. May be also with some initial breathing space to build a few cities.

1) Simply deity with no special additions.
Signed up
LKendter
microbe
One deity newbie is enough - I want experienced for the rest of the slots


2) Fast moving civ, version 2. Only fast units may attack.
This time it is deity and a standard size map.
Signed up
LKendter


3) Slow moving civ, version 2. Only slow moving units may attack.
This time it is deity and a standard size map.
Signed up
LKendter


4) Sid attempt.
I am not sure how many of these I will do, so if you are interested better take this one.
Signed up
LKendter
akots
I should have mentioned before, but you must have beating deity to sign up for this one

5) The 20K challenge, emperor or demigod. Open for player vote.
It has been ages since I did a 20K city victory. With C3C and military leader that can't rush wonders, it could make this harder.
Signed up
LKendter
Bede
Rubberjello

"You can sign up here for a not-so friendly Sid SG."

I would rather like a go at the Sid game, although since I would like to win it, I would like a nice start spot. Islands would be easier than continents/pangea. I hope the game would be fairly friendly.

1) Simply deity with no special additions.
Signed up
LKendter
microbe
One deity newbie is enough - I want experienced for the rest of the slots


2) Fast moving civ, version 2. Only fast units may attack.
This time it is deity and a standard size map.
Signed up
LKendter


3) Slow moving civ, version 2. Only slow moving units may attack.
This time it is deity and a standard size map.
Signed up
LKendter


4) Sid attempt.
I am not sure how many of these I will do, so if you are interested better take this one.
Signed up
LKendter
akots
Offa
Previous deity wins is mandantory to sign up for this one

5) The 20K challenge, emperor or demigod. Open for player vote.
It has been ages since I did a 20K city victory. With C3C and military leader that can't rush wonders, it could make this harder.
Signed up
LKendter
Bede
Rubberjello


with a food bonus and river on start.
I would like a nice start spot.

akots / Offa - Sorry, but all I would reject is an all marsh / jungle spot. Let me know if this affects wanting to play the game.

Originally posted by LKendter
... akots / Offa - Sorry, but all I would reject is an all marsh / jungle spot. Let me know if this affects wanting to play the game.

IMHO, if we go for Diplo win at low or minimal aggression, this might be possible. But even a modest warfare would require more or less decent start with some food bonus (wheat or cow) on a river with an agricultural civilization unless it is an isolated island. However (swallowing hard), this might be a really brutal and spectacular event in any case which I dare not to miss and am still willing to participate.

I'll join in for a 20k game. I've done two 20k wins in Conquests, including one on Deity, so I've got the experience. Demigod difficulty preferred, natch. ;)

OK, I'm back, having finally downloaded the 1.22 patch (damn slow 56K connection). I missed the AWE game, but will be watching for any further warmongering opportunities...

Steve Lee may correct me but I don't think he has any intention of switching to 1.22 now.

I will be interesting the 20K game. I don't think I have ever played a SG for 20K victory.

I haven't seen signs of any SG going to 1.22 with the unable to load previous versions issue. At this time I am sticking with 1.15 unless there is serious pressure for 1.22.

===================

5) The 20K challenge, emperor or demigod. Open for player vote.
It has been ages since I did a 20K city victory. With C3C and military leader that can't rush wonders, it could make this harder.
Signed up
LKendter
Bede
Rubberjello
T-hawk (demigod)
hotrod0823

#5 is a go! I will start after I get some votes on the level. I have one vote already for demigod. Once I get more votes for a clear winner, I will start it.

======================

No more games for awhile as LK65/66/67 are all near the beginning.

Demigod-aye

Well, I'll be the first "wussy" and vote for Emporer level. I'm just not confident because I haven't played one without the military leader wonder rush. It could be a real stuggle if we only get a poor/mediochre starting position. (Although I'm sure T-Hawk could still win it!)

I'll play in a rubbish start position, but winning might be a tad tricky. As long as we can build the great library there is some chance. If it's really grim then I guess it will be quick.

5) The 20K challenge, emperor or demigod. Open for player vote.
It has been ages since I did a 20K city victory. With C3C and military leader that can't rush wonders, it could make this harder.
Signed up
LKendter
Bede (demigod)
Rubberjello (emperor)
T-hawk (demigod)
hotrod0823

I need hotrod0823 vote!
Demigod and it starts - emperor and I have to figure out the tie breaker.

=====================

@Offa - The sid game is NOT starting. I was trying to get one game started, and 20K was it.

demi is fine and I am sure RJ can handle it :D

Bad post - ignore this.

1.15 vs. 1.22

It will be a bit before the next round of LK series games starts.

However, I have finally started to see the 1.22 patch come up in SGs. My understanding is the scenarios will load fine in 1.22. This implies LK65 world map is fine.
Can a 1.22 player confirm this?

Can a 1.22 player verify LK66/LK67 can NOT load?

==============================

I want to start getting opinions on if LK68 forward should be on 1.22 patch.

Lee

Any save-game created from a .biq scenario file with modified rules will load in 1.22. That includes all the Conquests scenarios, of course, and would include your world map. A save-game created without modified rules will crash; that's because space for Radio is allocated in the save-file data structures, but is not present in memory when Civ uses the current default ruleset.

I can go with whatever patch you decide. I have no other 1.15 SGs or Epics left to play, and I'm hoping/expecting that the next round of Conquests scenarios will play on 1.22.

No problem here. Due to my many PBEMs, I am actively using PTW 1.27, and Conquests 1.15, 1.20, and 1.22 almost every day.
***********************************
Edit:

I checked LK65. It does load fine under 1.22, 1.20, and 1.15. I will play my turns in 1.15 though for now.
**********************************************

I am leaning toward 1.22, but haven't decided yet. I would like to hear a few more comments.

Any news about the Sid game?

I haven't thought about LK68 yet. Once I have, I may consider Sid.

ONE of the following games will start. The first to get 5 signups will be the one to go.


A game at the sid level - I offer no guarantees on good start.
Civ = to be decided.
This will be my typical small world.
Previous deity win mandatory to sign up for this
Signed up:
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Back to Japan.
Difficulty = Emperor
Civ = Random
Another round of the scenario in Japan
Signed up:
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Revenge of Babylon - 80K challenge
If you are asking why 80K, not 100K - conquest dropped the total culture needed for the small world.
Difficulty = Emperor
I will like to try this one again. The previous game (LK45) failed at the goal of a mostly passive win. The object is to win with minimal wars against the culturally clueless. Our opponents would be cultural losers such as the Zulu.

This will be my typical small world.
Signed up:
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


It's a crowded world after all...
Difficulty = Demigod
Civ = Ottoman
A standard small world, but with the game modified to have *7* opposing civs on a small map. Land for cities will be at a premium to say the least.

Signed up:
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot

Sign me up for the 80K win. Haven't yet had one. I've had 20K win at emperor however (OCC).

I guess me and IIRC Offa have already signed up for the Sid game previously?

I guess me and IIRC Offa have already signed up for the Sid game previously?

I always want fresh sign ups. Akots I put you in for this possible round of Sid.

======================


ONE of the following games will start. The first to get 5 signups will be the one to go.


A game at the sid level - I offer no guarantees on good start.
Civ = to be decided.
This will be my typical small world.
Previous deity win mandatory to sign up for this
Signed up:
LKendter
akots
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Back to Japan.
Difficulty = Emperor
Civ = Random
Another round of the scenario in Japan
Signed up:
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Revenge of Babylon - 80K challenge
If you are asking why 80K, not 100K - conquest dropped the total culture needed for the small world.
Difficulty = Emperor
I will like to try this one again. The previous game (LK45) failed at the goal of a mostly passive win. The object is to win with minimal wars against the culturally clueless. Our opponents would be cultural losers such as the Zulu.

This will be my typical small world.
Signed up:
LKendter
microbe
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


It's a crowded world after all...
Difficulty = Demigod
Civ = Ottoman
A standard small world, but with the game modified to have *7* opposing civs on a small map. Land for cities will be at a premium to say the least.

Signed up:
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot

I'd like to have a go at the pacifist 80k. It seems all of my games have had a distinctly violent flavor lately ....

ONE of the following games will start. The first to get 5 signups will be the one to go.


A game at the sid level - I offer no guarantees on good start.
Civ = to be decided.
This will be my typical small world.
Previous deity win mandatory to sign up for this
Signed up:
LKendter
akots
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Back to Japan.
Difficulty = Emperor
Civ = Random
Another round of the scenario in Japan
Signed up:
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Revenge of Babylon - 80K challenge
If you are asking why 80K, not 100K - conquest dropped the total culture needed for the small world.
Difficulty = Emperor
I will like to try this one again. The previous game (LK45) failed at the goal of a mostly passive win. The object is to win with minimal wars against the culturally clueless. Our opponents would be cultural losers such as the Zulu.

This will be my typical small world.
Signed up:
LKendter
microbe
SesnOfWthr
Open slot
Open slot


It's a crowded world after all...
Difficulty = Demigod
Civ = Ottoman
A standard small world, but with the game modified to have *7* opposing civs on a small map. Land for cities will be at a premium to say the least.

Signed up:
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot

I would like to join the 80k challenge and the crowded small map ones. :)


That is, if you accept me.. :)

Oh, and I can only join if these are played on 1.22. I think you said like that, but a clarification would be nice. :)

I would like to have a go at the 80k too, if you want me onboard and you don't mind my having played C3C only once -A Space Oddity's SG "Resurrection of the VoC".

EDIT: No problems if you'r rather go with other people :)

Revenge of Babylon - 80K challenge
If you are asking why 80K, not 100K - conquest dropped the total culture needed for the small world.
Difficulty = Emperor
I will like to try this one again. The previous game (LK45) failed at the goal of a mostly passive win. The object is to win with minimal wars against the culturally clueless. Our opponents would be cultural losers such as the Zulu.

This will be my typical small world.
Signed up:
LKendter
microbe
SesnOfWthr
Ankka
Karasu

I did state the LK series would go to 1.22.
Can the above players confirm 1.22 is OK.
When I get 5 yes votes, LK69 will start.

I have a dual install, so either is fine with me. I generally play 1.15, but there was not any gamebreaking changes in 1.22, so I don't see a problem with that either.

Revenge of Babylon - 80K challenge
If you are asking why 80K, not 100K - conquest dropped the total culture needed for the small world.
Difficulty = Emperor
I will like to try this one again. The previous game (LK45) failed at the goal of a mostly passive win. The object is to win with minimal wars against the culturally clueless. Our opponents would be cultural losers such as the Zulu.

This will be my typical small world.
Signed up:
LKendter
microbe
SesnOfWthr - Confirmed 1.22
Ankka
Karasu

I did state the LK series would go to 1.22.
Can the above players confirm 1.22 is OK.
When I get 5 yes votes, LK69 will start.

1.22 is the only one I can play, I don't have a big enough harddrive for a dual install... :blush: :rolleyes:

Revenge of Babylon - 80K challenge
If you are asking why 80K, not 100K - conquest dropped the total culture needed for the small world.
Difficulty = Emperor
I will like to try this one again. The previous game (LK45) failed at the goal of a mostly passive win. The object is to win with minimal wars against the culturally clueless. Our opponents would be cultural losers such as the Zulu.

This will be my typical small world.
Signed up:
LKendter
microbe
SesnOfWthr - Confirmed 1.22
Ankka - Confirmed 1.22
Karasu

I did state the LK series would go to 1.22.
Can the above players confirm 1.22 is OK.
When I get 5 yes votes, LK69 will start.

1.22 is OK with me.

This will be my typical small world.
Signed up:
LKendter
microbe - Confirmed 1.22
SesnOfWthr - Confirmed 1.22
Ankka - Confirmed 1.22
Karasu

Sorry for the delay...
Here I am, all patched to 1.22 and ready to go :D

EDIT: BTW, I play from the CET time zone for the purpose of roster formation

3 new LK series games have started:

LK73 - AWE Pangea
LK74 - Simply Sid
LK75 - The LK World map is back.

LK72 is over. LK73 doesn't have much time left. It is time to select another one. The first of the below choices to get 5 players will start.



AWE, small world, Pangaea, NO armies!
It is time once and for all to answer the question if armies break AWE.
Signed up:
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot

AWE, standard world, Pangaea.
This time we suffer with 7 opponents.
Signed up:
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot

Samurai pride, small world.
This would be a variant of the defiant nationalist games by Charis. The Civ would be Japan, we must push to Chivalry, and once we have first Samurai the defiance begins.
Signed up:
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot

I'm up for all 3 ;)

If you want to answer if armies break AWE, play a game on vanilla 1.29f and leave them in. You can add a variant rule of no rushing great wonders if you like. :)

I am up for either (or both) of the first two (AWE) games.

I'd be interested in the Samurai game.

If you want to answer if armies break AWE, play a game on vanilla 1.29f and leave them in. You can add a variant rule of no rushing great wonders if you like.It would be a valid test, but at this point I just can't see myself playing that old version.

============================

I forget to mention signup requirements. All 3 require previous deity military wins. In addition the AWE games require previous AW experience.

AWE, small world, Pangaea, NO armies!
It is time once and for all to answer the question if armies break AWE.
Signed up:
LKendter
hotrod0823
Greebley
Open slot
Open slot

AWE, standard world, Pangaea.
This time we suffer with 7 opponents.
Signed up:
LKendter
hotrod0823
Greebley
Open slot
Open slot

Samurai pride, small world.
This would be a variant of the defiant nationalist games by Charis. The Civ would be Japan, we must push to Chivalry, and once we have first Samurai the defiance begins.
Signed up:
LKendter
hotrod0823
Kaiser_Berger
Open slot
Open slot

I'm interested in AWE, but I never played a true always war, so you have the option where to place me :) I would need a few tips.

I'm interested in AWE, but I never played a true always war, so you have the option where to place me :) I would need a few tips.

I have the same problem. Do you want to play an AWM game just to get some experience? If so I can set up one.

I would be interested in the small map AWE should that be selected. I have plenty of experience with AW at high levels in vanilla Civ3, but not too much in C3C.

@Gozpel - I suggest you take up microbe's offer. AWE is much harder then AWM. I would suggest you first get your feet wet with AWM.

==================

AWE, small world, Pangaea, NO armies!
It is time once and for all to answer the question if armies break AWE.
Signed up:
LKendter
hotrod0823
Greebley
Zwingli
Open slot

AWE, standard world, Pangaea.
This time we suffer with 7 opponents.
Signed up:
LKendter
hotrod0823
Greebley
Open slot
Open slot

Samurai pride, small world.
This would be a variant of the defiant nationalist games by Charis. The Civ would be Japan, we must push to Chivalry, and once we have first Samurai the defiance begins.
Signed up:
LKendter
hotrod0823
Kaiser_Berger
Open slot
Open slot

I did take up microbe's offer and I can go bushwalking until it starts.

I do have some experience of AW on all levels, but usually not as a preset thing, it just happened that way :) But that's not the same.

Due to the unexpected end of LK74 I am opening 2 games.
LK76 AWE no armies - I put Greebley, Zwingli, and hotrod0823 in this one.

LK77 Samurai Pride - I put Kaiser_Berger in this one.

It is time to plan LK78. The *first* of the games below to fill will create LK78.


5CC Conquest, Deity, Continents, Standard size map.
Required experience: Previous deity military win


Sid attempt 2, Continents, Standard size map.
Will restart until I get a settler factory. This time I am planning on 12 tiles cities.
Required experience: Multiple deity wins, Sid experience preferred.


Another defiance game like LK77. Pangea, small size map.
If this fills I will figure out the civ, and when the defiance kicks in.
Required experience: Previous deity military win


Slow cooked deity, Pangea, small size map, Korea.
The science rate is upped 50%. You will see more Middle Ages wars. The last time I ran this it had rifleman stacks guarding cannons to take out cities. Something you don't see often in a typical deity game.
Required experience: Previous deity military win


Independent Denmark, Napoleonic Scenario, Monarchy.
Required experience: Previous deity military win
While this is only "monarchy", this is going to be a brutal game with our weak starting position. We are not locked into an alliance with France.


I reserve the right to see proof of experience from unknown players
I had a recent game with a player I was very suspicious that he wasn't qualified for the game.

Lee, what about not playing the Danes in Napoleonic Europe (btw, Monarch would be a bit too easy when they're not locked with France; make that Emperor, we won with Sweden on DG) and removing the essential Locked Alliance, but Portugal right out of the box? I was thinking of starting this myself already...
Or: Netherlands on Monarch (no joke!)

I would go for either of the last two.

Lee, what about not playing the Danes in Napoleonic Europe (btw, Monarch would be a bit too easy when they're not locked with France; make that Emperor, we won with Sweden on DG) and removing the essential Locked Alliance, but Portugal right out of the box? I was thinking of starting this myself already...
Or: Netherlands on Monarch (no joke!)
I am going to stick with the Danes. I already spent the time creating the module, and don't want to throw that time away.

However, based on your comments and the fact that I gave them a few more buildings I am upping the level to Emperor.

========================

5CC Conquest, Deity, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter


Sid attempt 2, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter


Another defiance game like LK77. Pangea, small size map.
Signed up:
LKendter


Slow cooked deity, Pangea, small size map, Korea.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor


Independent Denmark, Napoleonic Scenario, Emperor.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor

Well I did the Ottos and the Swedes recently (in Doc's game) so why not try the Danes :) So I'll be happy to join "Independent Denmark".

5CC Conquest, Deity, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter


Sid attempt 2, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter


Another defiance game like LK77. Pangea, small size map.
Signed up:
LKendter


Slow cooked deity, Pangea, small size map, Korea.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor


Independent Denmark, Napoleonic Scenario, Emperor.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor
Grs

NOTE: Independent Denmark will only be 4 players. One more sign up, and that one starts.

I'll sign up for 1, 3, 4.

5CC Conquest, Deity, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
microbe


Sid attempt 2, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter


Another defiance game like LK77. Pangea, small size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
microbe


Slow cooked deity, Pangea, small size map, Korea.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor
microbe


Independent Denmark, Napoleonic Scenario, Emperor.
This will be just 4 players due to the short length of the scenario.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor
Grs

:bump: Still looking to fill a game.

I'd be interested in the slow cooked deity game.

DROPPED - to little interest: Sid attempt 2, Continents, Standard size map.

Two games need just 1 player.


5CC Conquest, Deity, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
microbe


Another defiance game like LK77. Pangea, small size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
microbe


Slow cooked deity, Pangea, small size map, Korea.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor
microbe
Greebley

Independent Denmark, Napoleonic Scenario, Emperor.
This will be just 4 players due to the short length of the scenario.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor
Grs

I'll fill out the slow cooked deity game.

Slow cooked deity, Pangea, small size map, Korea.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor
microbe
Greebley
Kaiser_Berger

LK78 will start tonight, and it will be slow-cooked.

You have a spot for me in that 5CCC game?

Yeah, when I think of I join the defiance game too.

Just missed out on the slow cooked deity, but the others will do.

I was only starting one game for the moment. Some of those same openings may appear for LK79.

That's fine, you can still slot me in for those other games, so I don't have to pray that my server will let me sign up in time?

That's how I missed out on the slow cooked deity.

With dropping the very draining LK76 to 5 turns per player I have decide to open one more

I don't want to assume people want two new games, so I am asking microbe and Meldor to reconfirm interest. I feel keeping Gozpel and Grs on the list.

The signup requirements still apply for previous experience.


5CC Conquest, Deity, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe (needs to confirm)
Gozpel


Another defiance game like LK77. Pangea, small size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe (needs to confirm)
Gozpel


Independent Denmark, Napoleonic Scenario, Emperor.
This game will be just 4 players due to the short length of the scenario.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor (needs to confirm)
Grs

I would still play...

5CC Conquest, Deity, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe (needs to confirm)
Gozpel


Another defiance game like LK77. Pangea, small size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe (needs to confirm)
Gozpel


Independent Denmark, Napoleonic Scenario, Emperor.
This game will be just 4 players due to the short length of the scenario.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor
Grs

Lee, I only have 3 game and I can handle more, so confirmed. :)

The reconfirms are complete. Any additional players interested in on of the below?

5CC Conquest, Deity, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
Gozpel


Another defiance game like LK77. Pangea, small size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
Gozpel


Independent Denmark, Napoleonic Scenario, Emperor.
This game will be just 4 players due to the short length of the scenario.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor
Grs

I'd like to join one, but I've no exp. in SG's and few (unpleasent) in deity.

I'd like to join one, but I've no exp. in SG's and few (unpleasent) in deity. If all your experience as been unpleasent then I agree these games aren't for you. Both of deity games will be harder then a typical game.

I should have some others ending soon, so I suppose I can sign up for the 5CC and Defiance games. I'm holding back on the Napoleonic game as I have no experience in that scenario, and wouldn't want to be the weak link in our chain.

5CC Conquest, Deity, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
Gozpel
Kaiser Berger


Another defiance game like LK77. Pangea, small size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
Gozpel
Kaiser Berger


Independent Denmark, Napoleonic Scenario, Emperor.
This game will be just 4 players due to the short length of the scenario.
Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor
Grs


All three games need just 1 player.
I am asking the next sign up to pick just one game.

If all your experience as been unpleasent then I agree these games aren't for you. Both of deity games will be harder then a typical game.
That was almost a year ago. I've followed a lot of the ongoing games since then, but I rarely play because the games take too long. Some turns every couple of days would be the right thing for me. It's proven more difficult to find a game to join then I expected, I've been looking for a while now. I'd like to try, but if you think I'd screw your game I wait for microbes game (self research emperor) to start.

My advise is to go for the Emporer game first. The higher level deity games assume you have a working knowledge of all aspects of game play. The emporer game will be a more relaxed environment to figure out what you know and do not. I would then try a more "normal" deity level game to get a familarity with that too.

At that stage, you decide whether you are ready for the deity variants. For me, I played several games myself before trying the harder deity games (and this was after several months of reading existing games).

You learn a lot by lurking, but there are certain things that you miss since you aren't getting your hands dirty.

And there is a lot to learn. Even after 30 games I still learning something new. Thats one of the primary reasons I like civ.

I agree with what Greebley just said. Also, you can always start your own game. Maybe just a plain deity would do well.

I'd like to join the 5CC game.

5CC Conquest, Deity, Continents, Standard size map.
Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
Gozpel
Kaiser Berger
6thGenTexan

The LK series will be going on indefinite break after the current games ends.

It has hit the point where I can't tolerate different playing styles.
My tolerance for bad play (real or percieved) with difficult games is gone.
The nature of SGs will create the 2 above situations so there is no sense in my starting any news ones.

I plan to finish my involvement in the current ones at this time.

My condolances to the end of a truly EPIC series of SGs.

I agree with you, if you do not have fun, then do not do it. Hope you can find something entertaining to do. Having been in some of the LK series games is amongst the finest online experiences I have had during the 20 years I have been more or less online.

Grimjack

The series isn't dead, it will be back at some point. However, I need to an break until I feel the positive will clearly exceed the negative.

A break at some 80-ish number seems well deserved. I can't think of anyone else who sponsored more than 20. :goodjob:

I enjoyed playing in your games and the quality of players I played with.

You will always find differences in styles when you play games with other people, Lee. So don't let that put you off, we'll all learn sooner or later. And you deserve a break after a long haul like this :)

I hope you get back soonish with recharged batteries and new ideas.

[dance] We want to see your favorite smilie back online before long. [dance]

Due to an unexpected end of my current assignment I have too much time on my hands. The Civ break may be shorter than first planned. Either way I think the LK house rules need to be cleaned up. This is your chance to comment on the newest set for input on what should be added / deleted.



The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end.

Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.

Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another landmass.


Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.

2) You may not declare war on a civ if you are currently shipping cash and / or goods to the civ.

3) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.

4) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.

Just a couple additions to game play not necessarily rules.

* Worker Purchases - when they are allowed when not
* Running negative research early and running the risk of having the entire treasury demanded away.

Just a couple additions to game play not necessarily rules.

* Worker Purchases - when they are allowed when not
* Running negative research early and running the risk of having the entire treasury demanded away. I have removed the restrictions on worker purchases.

The second issue is a game play issue. Houserules can't cover how to play the game except to avoid game abuse.

Something subject to house rules: "Worker Walls" to prevent AI marine landings; in C3C, workers/artillery do not prevent landing of a military unit, but the AI wasn't told that.

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war.

Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.

Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another landmass.


Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.

2) Worker blockades are prohibited. This prevents things such as fortifying workers along the coast to stop invasions, blocking troops from going through your territory with workers, etc. Workers activity doing something along the coast is fine. The workers must be actively doing something.

3) You may not declare war on a civ if you are currently shipping cash and / or goods to the civ.

4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.

5) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.

Something subject to house rules: "Worker Walls" to prevent AI marine landings; in C3C, workers/artillery do not prevent landing of a military unit, but the AI wasn't told that.
This is not correct. The AI will not attack workers if it is after a higher value target, but they will use marines to attack worker stacks on the beaches.

Workers block non-marines when they shouldn't. Agree they don't block marines.

I also like the rule of not settling and abandoning the same city on a single turn. This prevents you from settling further and further into enemy territory on a single turn. You can only move forward 1 which is the speed a normal settler would take to enter enemy territory.

Just to clarify: You can use a units movement to go from one ship to another right? This is similar to jumping from land to sea in my book and completely allowed. The exploit is when you don't use the movement by putting the boats on the same square and do an unload and load.

When I use worker blocks of coastal tiles in my own games, I always let one square be open. Of my choice of course, because it's my territory after all. That should be alowwed, to create a killing zone, and if the AI has the intent to land, it can.

I'm very happy to see Palace-jumps and ship-shaining addressed. I simply hate those and quit playing GOTM because of the exploit.

Another point I think is "half" an exploit, is to buy techs for huge gpt, when you "know" the AI will attack you next turn. Cheesy.

I revised the wording for ship-chaining. Let me know if it is clearer now.


The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war.

Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship in the same square not using any movement, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.

Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another landmass.


Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.

2) Worker blockades are prohibited. This prevents things such as fortifying workers along the coast to stop invasions, blocking troops from going through your territory with workers, etc. Workers activity doing something along the coast is fine. The workers must be actively doing something.

3) You may not declare war on a civ if you are currently shipping cash and / or goods to the civ.

4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.

5) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.

I would say that house rule #4 should cover most for those people who have at least read a coupel of the other LK games on the forum.

I do not know if I should congratulate you on your return, or commiserate on the aborted assignment.

Welcome back anyway
Grimjack

I do not know if I should congratulate you on your return, or commiserate on the aborted assignment.
The aborted assignment is the bigger issue. I thought the contract would last at least to March 2005, and more likely June 2005. This one totally blinded me.

I don't know how the job market in Sweden is, but in the USA good paying work is getting very hard to find. The odds are 10-1 that the next assignment will pay lower. :(

I had hoepd for your sake, it was a job that went better than expected, and not a job that got the plug. Pity.
Any assignment could do worse than get someone that pays attention to detail as well as being a highly capable planner.
Grimjack

At least one new game will start after Christmas. Some things will change in the way the games start.

I want to finalize the the new house rules. I have one major issue to solve - bombers. Fatal land bombardment for bombers was IMO the worst feature of C3C. I see to methods to fix it. Let me know which you prefer:

1) Change the master game .bic and remove fatal land bombardment from bombers.
2) Enact a houserule that prevent further bomber attacks once a unit dies in the city.

Let me know your feelings on this one.

Lee,I suggest point 2,lethal land is not at all bad,at least Flight tech causes some casuality,but Bomber SoD is obviously forbidden because of this overpowered ability.So,stop bombing after 1 enemy unit in stack is knocked dead.

On point 2:
Are you suggesting:
You can only kill one (red-lined) unit per turn per city

or

You can only kill one (red-lined) unit per turn (only counting cities)?

I specified red-lined because you can kill a unit early. If you did kill one then you would be forced to stop bombing when units had 2 (or 3??) hp left. This adds a weird random variable in you bombing.

It gets even stranger if you have to stop the first time you get a death (red-lined or not) in a city. If you got one really early your bombers do nothing. You would want to decide how many bombers you want to use on squares other than the city first, when it is better to do it the other way around (bomb the city then use up the rest of the bombers).

Killing 1 red-lined unit per turn would work. You can then fire on healthy stacks after you killed the first red-lined one if you have bombers left. I think this would be my choice if I was making the decision. i.e.

"You can only kill one red-lined unit per turn with bombers"

I am thinking of you must must stop attacking after killing 1 unit in the stack. You are free to move to another stack with the rest of the bombers.

Yellow-lined units are a real problem as a bomber often takes two hp units to zero allowing multiple kills in stack if you have the right to attempt to red-line all units.

I am really not sure how to create good wording against the bomber SoD.


This is why I am debating option #1 as it is simple.

You could play the "Friendly American" way. Whenever you have a representative government, and kill a citizen in a city with a bomber the "press" jumps all over you and you can't bomb that city for a while. (1-turn) That would make city bombing relatively a moot point as you invariably kill citizens before units ~95% of the time. Thus use cruise missles to only kill the units in cities. You would have to develop your own rule for units in the open, but I don't think bombers hitting giant SoD's is much of a concern and I haven't seen it in a SG for some months now.
Just a thought, and it's free so you know what it is worth.
P.S. I would like a chance to join an LK series game at some point, so I am glad that you are "unretiring."

I would prefer that the fatal part was removed. I like the bombers for there range. While I would hate to lose the fatal sea bombardment, I could live without it.

While I would hate to lose the fatal sea bombardment, I could live without it.
You can keep the fatal sea bombardment, and only lose the fatal land bombardment. :)

You can keep the fatal sea bombardment, and only lose the fatal land bombardment. :) Matt_G is dead on target. Fatal land and Fatal sea bombard are two different options. Kill ships at see with air (very common) is still a viable option.

I think that would be the best option (turn off land only).

I would keep lethal bombardment for stealth bombers. There seems little reason to go for that tech otherwise and is late game.

Trying to make a house rule seems hard - sometimes it is even difficult to know if you killed the unit or not; do you count killing an airplane or boat (which IIRC they target first, etc).

How about air? Would a bomber be able to kill a fighter in a city?

How about air? Would a bomber be able to kill a fighter in a city? I have no idea on that one.

Yes. Fighters are usually the first to be killed. I am not sure if they are directly killed or killed during unsuccessful interception.

I make to make sure people realize that mapstat is fine to use with LK games.

I use it all the time to make unhappy people management easier.

I make to make sure people realize that mapstat is fine to use with LK games.

I use it all the time to make unhappy people management easier.

Do you allow all tabs? Like flip calculator?

I explicitly ban it in my rules. :)

I have added a new rule in bold listed below. Sacrificing a worker to save a city really abuses the AI stupidity.



The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war.

Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship in the same square not using any movement, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.

Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another landmass.

Worker baiting - You can't spread around and sacrifice workers to an oncoming attack. This is often done to avoid losing real units or cities. This takes advantage of the AI failure to prioritize targets.


Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.

2) Worker blockades are prohibited. This prevents things such as fortifying workers along the coast to stop invasions, blocking troops from going through your territory with workers, etc. Workers activity doing something along the coast is fine. The workers must be actively doing something.

3) You may not declare war on a civ if you are currently shipping cash and / or goods to the civ.

4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.

5) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.

Sneak previews of the LK series future - RaR. I fully expect more games of this mod as it keep the game fresh and interesting without having to make the game to tough.

Count me in all your RaR games (but I reserve the right to drop out :) ).

One difference in RaR is that even OCC can outresearch AI easily with so many improvements and wonders.

Sneak previews of the LK series future - RaR. I fully expect more games of this mod as it keep the game fresh and interesting without having to make the game to tough.

Thanks for the compliment in the name of the RaR team. :)

What about an AWE? I was planning to start one later, but if you want to go first, I'd join.

Microbe: A lot of the wonders require several (3 or 5 normally) of an improvement, or a resource; that makes OCC a bit more difficult as it may seem.
3CC or 5CC should be not too difficult, though.

Microbe: A lot of the wonders require several (3 or 5 normally) of an improvement, or a resource; that makes OCC a bit more difficult as it may seem.

But not those scientific wonders.

The wonders, no. The small wonders, yes.

After playing LK82 science experiment I am convinced that minimum research is a WASTE of time except under rare circumstances. Collecting gold in the AA is a complete waste of time as it will mostly be lost to demands. An example of the rare case is Republic is impossible to get in less the 50 turns, and you know how impossible that is to buy.

The question is can a house rule be put in place to encourage this? I am open to suggested wording to encourage this, as I simply hate minimum research at this point.

Ideas for future LK games. *NOT* starting at this time, and NOT reserving slots. I am just gauging interest for when I open LK91.


Deity, Flip you -
We must capture all cities except an auto-raze. We must set them on governor to manage happiness until no resistors. We can never starve cities intentionally.


Deity, Religious fanatics -
The first build out of every city must be a temple. The second churches are available we must swap all cities to them unless it waste shields. We must make a serious effort to build Sistine Chapel. The second build out of every city is a church after theology.


Deity, Hated civs -
Simply a deity game with the civs you have most to see. A small sized world, or standard if to many hated civs.

My initial list is:
Persia - I can't forget LK79. Persia is usually a early territory claimer, a culture threat, and dangerous in any space race.
Sumeria - A very dangerous runaway civ
Ottomans - Do you really like fighting Sipahi?

I had given thought to starting the first one and having the following rules:
1) Bombard is ok but you can not kill pop or destroy buildings. If during your turns, you kill a non-military unit or destroy a building or kill a pop point, you stop your turn and it goes to the next person (you are impeached!)
2) All cities must be captured, any city that would be autorazed can not be attacked. If a city gets autorazed, you get impeached.
3) No straving of the natives, you must retain the good people (building workers is OK, but you can' t do it to empty the city of population.
4) All slaves captured during war must be returned or merged into a city that was captured from the country of origin. Labor is an occupation not forced. Once they are merged in you can build workers out of that city, or settlers, but those are then voluntary worker force and not slaves as they get paid (have unit cost).

This would limit the use of bombing a city down before capture, starving it after capture, using bombers to take out defenders (high chance of impeachment). But still allow the use of bombard units and bombers against units in the open.

I also thought of restricting it to republic and democracy, and if the country goes into anarchy (due to WW) you are impeached.

If during your turns, you kill a non-military unit or destroy a building
That totally nerfs bombers as they still hit random targets.

That would make you use them only against ships and units that are purely military. Bombing a city with them would be extremely risky and you would get impeached within 5 shots max.

Add the following new house rule to the LK series.


7) As you probably know barbs are screwed up in C3C. It is preferred that you add the following line to your Civ3 .ini file - noAIpatrol=0. Adding "noAIpatrol=0" to the .ini file turns the annoying patrolling back on for the AIs, but also restores movement to the barbarians.

I would have interest in the city capture. I tend to keep cities anyway and am therefore interested in learning new ways to reducing risk of doing so. Generally, if you play right the chances of loss can be much reduced.

I think Meldor intended to nerf bombers vs cities. He mentions you can do it but will likely be impeached.

I would be neutral on the impeachment vs disallow. I would disallow razing cities for example (no purposefully razing one on the last turn for example then passing the game on.

Deity, America, the land of the free -
Every one loves are country. Any purchased / captured workers must be merged into a cities.
Goal - domination with under Republic / Democracy. Democracy is a mandatory research goad. War weariness with lots of war whiners. Doesn't this sound like fun?

Sounds like what we have now...:)

I would go for that one. REstrictions on bombard of cities?

I would like the religious fanatics game. Sounds vaguely familiar to a Charis Open game from way back.

I like all three of the new ideas, all seem like fun.

Even though you said no reservations, let me know beforehand when you are starting the hated civs game or the game as America. You always seem to open your games while I am in school, so I've missed out on a few that I would have liked to have gotten in to.

Add another idea to the list. Time to combine 2 variants again.

RaR 5CCC at Monarchy. If we win we increase the level and go again.

I have *TO* many fun ideas. I have to start one of these. Please let me know which ones you would play.

Deity, Flip you -
We must capture all cities except an auto-raze. We must set them on governor to manage happiness until no resistors. We can never starve cities intentionally.


Deity, Religious fanatics -
The first build out of every city must be a temple. The second churches are available we must swap all cities to them unless it waste shields. We must make a serious effort to build Sistine Chapel. The second build out of every city is a church after theology.
The civ would be a religious civ.


Deity, Hated civs -
Simply a deity game with the civs you hate most to see. A small sized world, or standard if to many hated civs.
My initial list is:
Persia - I can't forget LK79. Persia is usually a early territory claimer, a culture threat, and dangerous in any space race.
Sumeria - A very dangerous runaway civ
Ottomans - Do you really like fighting Sipahi?


Deity, America, the land of the free -
Every one loves are country. Any purchased / captured workers must be merged into a cities. We must actively purchase workers to "liberate" them if we can afford it.
Goal - domination win under Republic / Democracy. Democracy is a mandatory research goal and must be revolted to. War weariness with lots of war whiners. Doesn't this sound like fun?


Monarchy, civ=TBD, RaR 5CCC. If we win we increase the level and go again.
This will be the standard 5-city conquest variant adding in the RaR module. Obviously I plan to make it strict 5CCC, no barbs, and Pangaea.


Deity, Flip you -
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Deity, Religious fanatics -
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Deity, Hated civs -
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Deity, America, the land of the free -
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Monarchy, civ=TBD, RaR 5CCC -
LKendter - This one wins ties, as it is my preferred idea.
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot

Deity, Flip you -
We must capture all cities except an auto-raze. We must set them on governor to manage happiness until no resistors. We can never starve cities intentionally.

is this an OCB game? if so, that's insane.

Deity, Religious fanatics -
The first build out of every city must be a temple. The second churches are available we must swap all cities to them unless it waste shields. We must make a serious effort to build Sistine Chapel. The second build out of every city is a church after theology.
The civ would be a religious civ.
is 100k the goal? if so, i'll sign up for this.

Monarchy, civ=TBD, RaR 5CCC

I would like to play, my RaR expirience is somewhat limited but I think I can do.

The 5CC RaR sounds fun, but you may want to re-think the level. 5CC is much easier in RaR than in C3C if you have proper terrain. It is not out of the question that you could have all 5 cities producing 40+ spt (and a few over 60 :eek: ) in the Middle Ages. Expansion should also be slow enough that the opposing civs won't have many more than 5 productive cities until well into the MA.

I didn't make it clear, but ALL the deity games require previous Deity win. I prefer a Deity variant win.

The RaR game requires at least previous emperor win, and I prefer previous RaR experience.

The 5CC RaR sounds fun, but you may want to re-think the level.
I have already blown LK88 due to lack of RaR knowledge. The hole there is almost not recoverable. I fouled up the LK91 start due to lack of RaR knowledge. I want more RaR games before I commit to higher levels.

Deity, Flip you -
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Deity, Religious fanatics -
LKendter
Grahamiam
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Deity, Hated civs -
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Deity, America, the land of the free -
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Monarchy, civ=TBD, RaR 5CCC -
LKendter - This one wins ties, as it is my preferred idea.
Zavior
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot

I am up for any RaR 5CC. I can win OCC at emporer through culture, conquest, space or diplo. My play style is unique however, and I have a penchant for doing "silly" things. With your usual suspects LK, I think a 5CC game is easily doable at Demi-God for starters.
That said, I would like to note that I am not trying to tell you how to run your games, just offering my own $0.02.
If you accept me to play, I would note that I will be gone from Feb 14-21st. (This may preclude me from playing)
Thanks for running such a solid and efficient set of games LK.

Deity, Flip you -
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Deity, Religious fanatics -
LKendter
Grahamiam
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Deity, Hated civs -
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Deity, America, the land of the free -
LKendter
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot


Monarchy, civ=TBD, RaR 5CCC -
LKendter - This one wins ties, as it is my preferred idea.
Romeothemonk (out Feb 14 to Feb 21)
Zavior
Open slot
Open slot

@All - I am sticking with Monarchy. I have done a lousy job in my RaR games and want more "practice" games.

Hmm, we could kill three birds with one stone:

America, land of the free religious fanatics, flip you!

For a fourth, we could play against the Axis of Evil: Persia (Iran), Sumeria (Iraq), and China (The DPRK being a puppet of same).

No political statement implied - just thought it was funny how the ideas fit together. The culture from the religious buildings would help with the "flip you" and "everybody loves us" restrictions.

One could claim, at some risk of contradiction, that in RL, Iraq is on it's way to being flipped already...

:mischief:

"@All - I am sticking with Monarchy. I have done a lousy job in my RaR games and want more "practice" games."

No need to be that hard on yourself. One thing about Rand R is that no matter how far behind you fall, the AI does a wonderful job of royally screwing itself in the IA (aside from the occasional runaway). This may be due to the lack of high defense units making AI-AI wars more common. Also stuff like Opera Houses eating AI shields. Anyway, I'd say we can handle at least Emperor. See the Rapid City OCC DG game, for instance.

Monarch seems pointless. I'd really advise Emperor. I would say RaR, once you know it to some extend, is comparable to the unmodded game in difficulty for Emp/DG, easier below, and more random on Deity (depends more on the quality of your start compared to your neighbors - and, on the Civs you happen to find next door.). I would, however, advice to no longr play random Civs - pick one of your choice, and discuss how to play that trait/UU set before. With the highly limited early expansion, the very first turns are even more crucial in RaR.