Difficulty = Demigod
Barbarians = No options
Civilization = By Random - we got France.

Signed up:
LKendter
meldor
hotrod0823
ToddMarshall
Grimjack
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Rape - if you have to ask...

RoP Abuse that includes things such as irrigating all tiles with a city building wonders, denying resources with a RoP, putting a unit to block a land bridge, etc.

Scout resource denial - parking a scout on a resource, as the AI won't ask scouts to leave. The same scenario also applies to workers.

False Peace Treaties (must wait for the 20 years to end).

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

Resources disconnect / connect exploit - I consider most resource tactics fine. Delaying to hook a resource, trading it away etc is fine. The exploit is to do this every turn. Build a stack of horses, connect saltpeter, upgrade to cavalry, and disconnect.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.


Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.
2) No worker purchases before 1000BC to avoid civ crippling.
3) Declaring war / demanding leave solely for the purpose of getting out of trade deals.
4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.
5) Our trading reputation is golden - please respect it.
6) Complete your turn. It is frustrating to get a 1/2 completed turn.

843 AD (pre-turn)
We start in Monarchy, so an irrigated wheat tile will set us to +5 food. I switch Paris to granary, so that we can start building more workers / settlers.
We have meet Denmark and Burgundian civs already. The only available trades are a worker, and this clearly violates LK house rules.

I thought this was a full 540 turn game, but it is only 204 turns.
For science, I decide to try 40-turn gambit on Norse Tradition.

846 AD
Our next door neighbor of Denmark is one of the civs with Berserks. :eek:

849 AD
We make first contact with the Celts, and England moves a galley in range of us. Still can't make any trades.

852 AD
We make contact with Germany and Castile. We still can't make a trade.

855 AD
We form an embassy with Denmark - Hedeby is size one building a spearman.
We form an embassy with Celts - Dalriadia is size one, building settler due in 3 with growth to size 2 in 3. Some AI silliness isn't fixed.
We form an embassy with Germany - Regensburg is size three, building a settler.
We form an embassy with Castille - Leon is size one, building a spearman. I note Leon comes with NO pre-build city improvements.

858 AD
We have first contact with Cordova. It looks like everyone starts dead-even with tech in this scenario.

882 AD
This is the turn of massive contact as we meet - Poland, Magyars, and Bulgars.

888 AD
We make first contact with Norway.

Summary:
With 204 turns total, I took 14 turns.

LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
hotrod0823 (on deck)
ToddMarshall
Grimjack

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-888AD.zip

[/lurk] Norse Tadition doesn't really lead anywhere. It is a non-tradable tech between non viking nations. it gives berserks, but I am very sure that non-viking civs can't build berserks. This is what I gained from playing this scenario [/delurk]

OUCH - It looks like the Civlopedia needs some work. It didn't say this was a non-tradeable tech.

I see it and will correct for the tech problem.

[EDIT] BTW Lee, it is after 1000BC so you could have bought the worker :D :jump:

Originally posted by meldor
[EDIT] BTW Lee, it is after 1000BC so you could have bought the worker :D :jump:


Well the real goal is not to buy workers for the first 80 turns. The first 80 haven't passed yet.

Norse Tradition is a quite good tech for everyone (though the AI Civs usually do not research the other flavors until very late). While you cannot build the Berserks and Longships, you will be able to build the Viking Saga SM (Heroic Epic + Magellan's), and the Blacksmith (Factory without Pollution) later with access to the Viking branch.
And you should be able to trade for the 2 mandatory 1st era Techs without problems.
Not a bad strategy so far (though I think it's better to head for the 2nd era and grab Norse Tradition and Arab Learning from the HRE Wonder). France btw has easily the best start of all Catholic Civs, so you should do well. Just take care of culture flips...


And 40 turn gambit is the wrong word...you hardly could research the first tech in less time anyway.

888 AD (0)
Everything looks good, we are even in tech have extra horses but no iron or stone. Lee has temples building to fix that.
(I)We get asked to leave two different territories.

891 AD (1)
Movement.
(I) Paris settler->settler, Angers temple->rax,Orleans Spear->spear, Bordeaux Rax->spear, Boulogne Temple->Curragh, Clermont Rax->temple

894 AD (2)
More movement.

900 AD (4)
(I) Ghent Rax->Temple

903 AD (5)
(I) Paris settler->Spear

906 AD (6)
Lyons is founded on the coast. Trade Germany horses and 96g for Horseback Riding.
(I) Angers Rax->Spear

912 AD (8)
(I) Paris Spear->Settler

918 AD (10)
Found Rhiems to grab another quarry and some more wine.

The
Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-918AD.zip)

I've got it !

LKendter
Meldor
hotrod0823 (currently playing)
ToddMarshall (on deck)
Grimjack

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

Just a heads up. I most likely can't play till tues night and likely won't be on till then. So if hotrod posts his turns tonite it might be 36-48 hours before i respond. I WILL play and post the turns tues night though. It will be first "in queue" ahead of RBC3a (allreay on a slow pace) and Maniac1.

-Maniac.

If Blacksmiths are the factories, I would suggest we beeline for them, since shields may be at a premium on a cramped map. ( Hanv't actually looked, but meeting som many civs so fast makes it sound like a cramped map. )

Grimjack

the map is pretty big IIRC as most tiles are land not water.

Cramped is not the word :eek:. Half way done will have it back later tonight.

918 AD (0): At first glance all I can say is wow. We are tight on land already. Danish are on our territory as are the Celtics and we are in a culture war with Burgundian already in the south. Okay spent a while reading the Civilopedia and I am ready to jump in. Rush Temple in Ampurians for 20 gold. Put the taxman in Bordeaux back to work. Rush Lyons temple for 88 gold to fight with the Celts and Vikes for territory.

921 aD (1): Orleans builds a spear starts a temple. I think culture will be the key. Ampurias builds temple starts a curragh. Angers builds a spear starts another. Boulogne builds a curragh starts a barracks. Lyons builds a temple starts a worker. Hurry another temple in Clermont for 68 gold. 2 Castille settler pairs are heading our way.

924 aD (2): Paris builds a settler but I reluctantly start another. Clermont builds a temple starts a spear. Moving settler to the spot Between Bordeaux and Ampurias. Castillian settlers appear to be passing through. Trying to run interferance with a local spearman. Build the English Embassy for 32 gold. Chippenham is building swords, has 5 spears, an army 2 swords and a King. Complete with a barracks, temple and marketplace, horses, tar and ironx2. Workers are building forts :confused: How is that they have a marketplace yet don't have the middle class tech for it?? We have one in paris too.

927 AD (3): We get moved out of Cordova territory. Rush the Temple at Gent in the north for 44 gold. MOving the settler to the southern spot but can double back if we lose out to the Castillians. Still no changes on the tech side.

930 AD (4): Gent builds a temple starts a spear. Bordeaux builds a spear starts a temple. Short rush and archer in Paris and swap back to a settler. City grows to 6 next turn and hope to get the last shield from the new citizen. We need the settler sooner than later. I can't believe how many settlers are around. :eek:

933 aD (5): Sweet I got my settler out of Paris :D! Start on a Swordsman. Angers builds a spear starts a sword. A couple cultural expansions. Moving settler and new spear to the river between Paris and Rhiems. Otto is loaded and the rest are poor like us. No new techs. We lack tar.

936 AD (6): Boulogne builds a barracks starts a spear. Found Tours on the river between Bordeaux and Ampurias. Starts a temple. Contact the Byzantians She has worker but realize a :nono: and pass it up.

939 AD (7): Lyons builds a worker starts a granary. Rush the much needed temple at Rhiems for 64 gold.

942 aD (8): Orleans builds a temple starts a sword. Clermont a spears starts a spear. Rheims a temple starts a barracks. Found Chartres on the river between Orleans and Rhiems. Starts a temple.

945 aD (9): Paris builds a sword starts another. Germans just got a new tech and start bulding the Holy Roman Empire. As do the English. A barb camp just exploded on the Italian Peninsula. Barb horses are Khesiks with 3.2.3. castle building is know my most but not all. Too many to mention them all.

948 aD (10): Angers builds a sword starts a granary. Swordsman is continueing to slowly make his way West. We still cannot affor Casle Building but are only 5 turns from Norse Tradition on the path to the blacksmith. BTW the Bzyantines have a huge lead and the culuture graph is off the charts. We can possibly shoe horn one more city between Claremont and Angers. Started building up swords for what will be a war soon coming. :hammer:

here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-948AD.zip

http://civfanatics.net/uploads6/lk58948ad.JPG

LKendter
Meldor
hotrod0823
ToddMarshall (currently playing)
Grimjack (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

Looks like a lot of blue trourists like our Alps :)

Grimjack

Holy cow thats crowded. ALMOST to the point of ICS though it looks like we really didn't have a choice. I got it. I'm exhausted from a l-o-n-g couple of days at work so not sure if i will post today or tomorrow.

I'm half done and taking a break because I'm trying to figure out what we need to do here. Norse Trad came in and guess what? It IS non tradable (either that or every civ on the planet got it the same time we did). We can get Castle Building out of Burgundy for a phony war vs Norway, which I may do. Too many options, not enough good ones.

Preturn - I spend about an hour reading the civlopeia.

Conclusions: Most units and improvments are like the ones in the main game, at least up until pikes and swis mercs. I note that curraghs have a 1 unit transport ability. The other thing I note is that most of the wonders in this game are REALLY poweful, particularly the Holy Roman Empire wonder, which in hindsight I believe we should have been prebuilding for. It's ToE plus for goodness sakes!

I'm guessing we are mainly playing this for domination victory, though again, I'm not sure. I'm sort of lost as to what is the best approach the next 10 turns. After some thought I settle on military buildup. I'm guessing we are eying all that blue land to our east (both shades of it).

Swap a couple sword/spear builds to eliminate wasted shields, everything else looks dandy except for the fact we SERIOUSLY need workers.

Diplo check doesn't show anything much I didn't know from reading hotrod's summary

Interturn - Izzy demands us out, Byzantium and Burgunday ask us nicely to leave. Burgundy starts HRE.

[1] Boulogne - Spear -> Spear

Paris grows itself unhappy - The tiles arround paris are pretty unimproved. I lower the slider to 0 and hire a scientist.

IT - Germany declares war on burgundy. :)

[2] Paris - Sword -> Worker
Orleans - Spear -> Spear

Diplo: Germany wont offer much for an alliance, Burgundy would give us everything they own for one, but of course we have active deals with the Germans and must pass.

IT - Nothing

[3] Paris - Worker -> Horseman
Ampurias -> Curragh -> Curragh (vetoable)

Diplo - Nothing new

IT - Castile allies with Burgundy vs Germany

[4] Ghent - Sword -> Sword
Bordeaux - Temple -> Sword

IT - Norway allies with Germany against Burgundy an Castile.... This could get ugly.

[5] Orleans - Spear -> Spear
Lyons - Barracks -> Spear

Norse Tradition comes in and it is either NON tradable or every civ on the planet got it the same time we did....... Nope, the Danes have ship building... So aparently that IS tradable where norse trad isnt. I consider my options carefully here... and decide to wait one turn for the German horse deal to expire before making a decision.

IT - Cordova allies with Germany vs Burgundy

[6] Paris -> Horse -> Horse
Bulogne - Spear -> Spear

Seeing no other good option for catching up in tech, I make the following deals.

To Burgundy: Aliance vs Norway for Castle Building and 9g
To Sweeden: Horses for Seafaring and 9g

My plan is this: let Castile get themselves out of position on our turf then declare war on them. If nothing else better presents itself that is.

Tottally unsure of what to research next I choose smithing at min science. We can't get anything in less than 27 turns and even then it is t -5gpt.
Contact is made with Fatima who don't yet have Castle Building

IT - Kievan Rus and Germany ally vs Burgundy

[7] Paris - Worker -> Horse

Diplo - Nothing

IT - Nothing

[8] Orleans -> Spear -> Spear
Rheims -> Barracks -> Spear

Diplo - Nothing

IT - Nothing

[9] Angers - Grainery -> Sword

I end here because the game says this is turn 44 of 204... not sure if somone took an extra turn or what but this gets the years and turns in whack. I was trying to create a stack in tours, to go after Castile, but that won't be my call. We are at a crossroads. We DO need a war soon if only to get mor cities for unit support. The workers near clermont are trying to road up the spare iron so we can trade it. Not sure this was one of my better SG turns, if not, I appologize.

Good Luck to the next player.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-975AD.SAV)

LKendter (on deck)
Meldor
hotrod0823
ToddMarshall
Grimjack (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

Got it.
It will be a couple of hours before I start to play. Anyone got any tips beyond a general buildup of forces, and stay out of the way of Berserks ?

Grimjack

LK58, preturn, 975AD. As is prudent in Conquests, I spend a lot of time reading the docs.
I will see if I can continue the build-up of troops by the Castille border, as well as keep up in the tech game.
While pouring over the map, I spot a Norwegian colony in Africa ļ, weird.
I check diplomacy. An awful lot of contacts, and we still have half the map to explore. Byzantine seems to have a monopoly on Code of Laws. And Fatimids are down Castle Building.
We are at war with Norway. I remember the Curragh we have outside canary islands, and the Norwegian longboat there, and I put the warrior on shore leave.
After checking the tech tree I decide it is really weird. I also note that the wonders are on steroids, and as soon as we get blacksmiths, we ought to build at least one or two.
Note that mills in a far away tech is a small factory, increasing shields with 25% .It might be worth pursuing after Blacksmiths.
I build an embassy in Bulgar. This is so that I may sign a RoP and continue exploring. They have a Barracks and a temple. They are building spearmen at size 5 with 7spt. Two iron and a Tar ( I think. Looks like some old shoes. )
Garrison is four spears and a sword + one king.
I pay another 16 gold to get a RoP with them. I hope to get it back by finding a backwards civ I can peddle castlebuilding to.

IBT: The Norwegian longboat ignore our Curragh . Weird. Another Longboat appears from the north. I will shift some forces up here to form a welcoming committee.
Poland goes to war against the Burgundians. It makes me itch to join in. Burgundy has some excellent cities at our borders.
Four barbarian Keshiks attack the Norwegian town in Africa promoting it to elite without a scratch. This is 3.2.3 horsemen. One would think they could take out a lonely spearman. AIs must have enormous bonus against the barbarians. Germans start Holy Roman Empire
Paris completes Horseman->horseman

978 I try my hand at some MM, but there really is not much to do. Earn a gpt and two cities earn a turn on growth. I do move some troops into position near Marseilles. That city has some wines that rightfully belong to the French people. I am hoping the Burgunds are rather busy with the Germans and Polacks.

IBT: No Norwegian zerks land on our shores. A Norwegian longboat is out there outside the coast of Normandy, looking for targets presumably. Chartres completes its temple. I set it on barracks.

981: Troops get into position, and it is possible to strike at Marseille next turn. I will revaluate after checking diplomacy next turn. I also notice we do not have any decent worker factory. I will try to skim workers as much as possible.

IBT: A lone Burgund swordsman enter our lands. Wonder where he think he is going. Angers produce a swordsman, and I set it to worker. Boulogne grows and is set on a zero food surplus but 10 spt diet, and will produce swordsmen. Lyons produce a spearman and is set to produce Granary.

984: Fatimids have somehow acquired castlebuilding. No new techs visible. I guess the Danes threatened Byzantine into granting them Code of Laws, as they are the only ones having it besides the Byzantines. Burgundy seals its fate when I discover they have something we want. I declare war and cross my fingers hoping most of their troops are away bashing the Germans.
I do not sign any alliance, as I hope for a short war.
Hmm, at second look I do NOT declare war against the Burgunds. Discover we have them in an alliance against the Norwegians for another 14 turns. Our troops will redeploy outside the Castile borders.

IBT: Paris Horseman->Horseman, Bordeaux Sword->Sword, Ampurias Barracks->Spear, Angers Worker->Horseman,

987 Movement and exploration. Spot what might be an unknown border in Sardinia. Notice a free island with wines, it is Mallorca. I will have to build a settler in a suitable city to colonize this spot.
I set Bordeaux to settler.
Sweden knows Smithing and Denmark knows Code of Laws. I smell a twofer, but I do not have the resources to buy into this.

IBT: See Burgund swordsmen capture no less than three Cordoban settlers. Cordoba continue to send settlers though.
Ghent Sword->Worker Orleans Spear->Horse

990 The red borders on Sardinia was a Danish colony. Continue to follow the coast of Africa.
Early siegecraft is out. Burgundy is up Early Siegecraft and Code of Laws, Sweden is up Smithing and Code of Laws, Denmark is up Code of Laws and Early Siegecraft, Byzantines is up Early Siegecraft and Code of Laws, Germany is up Monasticism, Cordova is up Code of Laws, Norway is on speaking terms, but I am not prepared to destroy our rep. With our 4 gpt there is not much I can do. All of those nations already have iron. A horse is not enough to get anything from Burgundy. Get doubtful from Denmark who lacks iron with all our gold. Bah.

IBT: This turn Burgunds have a little less luck. They lose two swordsmen against a spearman trying to capture a settler. Boulogne Swordsman->Horseman, Clermont Sword->Sword Rheims Spear->Spear.

993 Movement and exploration. Still a lot of Castillan swords in our territory. I hope they get to where they are supposed to be soon now.
I change Ampurias from spear to worker.
I also decide to spend some of our hard earned cash on rushing a worker out of Bordeaux. Diplomacy is a bit depressing when we fall more and more behind all the time, so I skip it this turn. It is not like we get more money when we build so many troops.

IBT: With all my troops out of position, Celts demand 24 gold. I fold to him, but I will remember this. Paris horse->horse Bordeaux Settler->Spear, Angers Horse->worker, Tours Temple->Worker,

996 I have moved what troops we have into position next to Castillan borders. I am hesitant to strike as long as Castillans are moving 10+ troops through our countryside though. I will continue to gather troops, and let next leader decide on this matter.

IBT. Just as the Castilan troops are closing in on Germany, they sign peace. With our luck, the Castillan swords will be travelling back through our country now. Our African scouting warrior is destroyed by a roaming barbarian cavalry. Angers worker->horseman,

999 Move more troops. Explore some. I do not know what to do. We need to lash out against someone soon, or it will be very tough digging ourselves up out of the hole. We also need to get some Victory points if we want to win, and you do not get many points by being peaceful.

Feels like a good time to leave to next player with a large war around the corner. I think we are in a good position for some warfare. Troops are enough to capture one or two cities in Castille, but we will need reinforcements if we are to vanquish them. We will also need to do something aggressive against the Norwegians somehow. At least appear to uphold our end of the bargain.

Save: Here. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-999AD.zip)

Phew. You were scaring me with that Burgundy war!

That alliance got us a free tech for a phony war. At the time I signed it, Burgandy had more ppl on their side vs Germany than vice versa, but the balance shifted a bit later. I'd suggest letting the alliance come to a close, then maybe we can get stuff out of one of their opponents (Germany maybe?) for an alliance vs them :). Castile was one of their major allies so they are probably in toruble now.

@Grimjack - Please complete ALL rounds. I got the game with 52 turns played, not 54 as expected. I counted your turns and played an incomplete 8 turns. I would prefer to get the game stuck with a war, then the round incomplete.


999 AD (pre-turn)
Our tech position is pitiful. I hate to help the leader, but I ship Iron and $75 to Sweden for Smithing. I ship Smithing to Denmark for Code of Laws and $40 making sure not to do gpt. :flamedevi:
I ship Code of Laws to the Bulgars for $125. I also send it to England for $189. The good news is we are ahead of some civs in tech not. Our iron got us a net of 2 techs and $279.

All cities get either town halls or blacksmiths depending on corruption level except for a couple of extreme corruption cities. To be honest, we can't afford anymore troops. The good news is we are ahead of some civs in tech not.


1002 AD
Denmark doesn't think giving us Siege Craft for peace is a good idea, so war begins. Our horse goes elite killing a berserk / settler pair. Two more workers :D

1005 AD
We kill a Danish warrior - any kill is good for some victory points.

1008 AD
We make first contact with the filthy rich Abbasids. The bad news is no tech to trade to get their money.
:eek: Major league problems. Danes and Cordovans ally against us. The civs with a ton of units in our territory...

1011 AD
We will be fighting Cordova for awhile, as I sign Castile into an alliance against them.
>>I would like to shoot whoever made those civs colors so close.

Nantes is now a French city like it should be.
We kill a Danish settler pair down in Bulgar land! The trouble is to get those workers home. The Danes have a demon spear by Ghent that eats a sword, and retreats a horse. We kill a couple of Cordova swords to safe guard Ampurias.
(I) Turks declare war on Burgundy.

1014 AD
(I) Norway attacks Nantes from sea, but we are lucky and keep it.

1017 AD
(I) Norway attacks Nantes again - we are down to one defender.
:confused: The Byzantines are building the Doomsday book. :confused:

1020 AD
I am impatiently waiting for those 2 turns of alliance against Norway to end. I can't afford to keep seeing units die in Nantes.
Denmark still won't talk, and we have been on the losing end of this fight. It needs to end now.
(I) What the? Denmark dials up and wants peace. However, despite us taking a city they want us to pay?
Ghent riots due to the lost mp.

1023 AD
Well I simply should have paid Denmark the $180, as the price has going up. Our unit costs are half of what they were at the start of my turns. I sign a more expensive peace of $202 and $5/turn. Ghent could fall next turn, and we are out of troops.

We now have contact with the Turks, but no possible trades.

Summary:
Pretty much a failure turn - I got Nantes, but lost a fortune in troops to Denmark.


LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
hotrod0823 (on deck)
ToddMarshall
Grimjack

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-1023AD.zip

Sorry about the eight turns Lee. I will remember it for next turn.
Grimjack

Wow. WTH is up with them wanting so much for peace :(. It really looked like a good turn for the first 3/4 until that happened. I really think we should try to build a wonder somewhere. These wonders in this scenareo are about the most powerful wonders I've seen in any scenareo.

I also thought about wonders, but with our best cities stuck on 10 or 11 spt, I didn't think we would get any in time for it to be effective.
Grimjack

Got it...

1023 AD (0)
Swap one clown to taxman in Angers. Get RoP to go with alliance via Cordova. All of our swrods seem to be pulling MP duty and none are ready to go on the offensive.
(I) Norway lands 3 Bezerkers between tow of our workers. Burgundy and Cordova make peace. Paris Blacksmith->sword. Germans start he holy Roman Empire. We lose one source of iron.

1026 AD (1)
Move some swords down to try and start some atack forse to go after Cordova. I guess we will be making horsemen until the deal for our other iron expires.
(I) Norway and Burgundy sign a peace treaty. The three bezerkers advance on Angers, guearded by only a warrior.

1029 AD (2)
I ask the Zerks to leave and they do. They are now between Nantes and Brittany.
(I) The Zerks approach Nantes. boulogne Blacksmith->Spear Clermont Spear->Spear.

1032 AD (4)
The Zerks leave again. I don't know how many more times they will. I am trying to get more units to the town.
(I) The Byzantines demand gold, I tell them off and they declare. Paris Sword->Horse. Lyons Blacksmith->Spear. The Zerks move in again.

1035 AD (5)
Once again the Zerks back down. The reason I ask them to leave is that at least if the declare war when I have the initiative, I can kill one of the Zerks before they attack. Move new sword towards Nantes. Stop Spear in Angers to provide MP.
(I) The Zerks move in again. The Maygars declare war on the Burgundians. The Byznatines get an alliance with the Magyars against us. Ghent Townhall->Spear. Orleans Blacksmith->Spear. Boulogne Spear->Spear.

1038 AD (6)
Once again I ask the Zerks to leave and they do. This time however Brittany's borders have expanded and they zip to the other side of Paris.
(I) The Maygars grab one of our wandering workers. Burgundy and Kievan Rus sign for peace. Paris Horse->Horse. Clermont Spear->Spear. Lyons Spear->Spear. The Zerks move into our territory again.

1041 AD (7)
Get embassy with Norway and sign RoP. Lets see where the Zerks want to go. As long as they don't rape us.
(I) Swedes demade horses and I refuse. They declare war. Man, this is not my turn.

1044 AD (8)
I can get Norway in an alliance agianst the Swedes but they want too much.
(I) Paris Horse->Sword. Angers Blacksmith->Sword. Lyons Spear->Townhall, Rheims Townhall->Settler.

1047 AD (9)
our mini-stack of Swords arrive outside of Valencia.
(I) Germany declares war on the Turks. Ghent Spear->Spear. Boulonge Sword->Sword. Clermont Spear->Spear.

1050 AD (10)
Our swords are now on the hill ready to attack Valencia.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-1050AD.zip

The Byzantines demand gold, I tell them off and they declare.
This isn't the defiant France. You are allowed to cave in LK games.



LKendter
Meldor
hotrod0823 (currently playing)
ToddMarshall (on deck)
Grimjack

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

This isn't the defiant France. You are allowed to cave in LK games.
:rotfl:

Actually that one doesnt worry me as much as the one with the Sweedes. Oh well, at least we have resources this time.

I had built up our military some and was hoping it was all bluff. I think with 17 Civs on this map everyone is going to have a hair trigger. The Swedes tried to extort horses, it was too much to give up. I think we will be fine. We can bring someone into the war with us. Germany is a candidate as they are already at war with everyone else.

I've got it but need to finish what has turned into Always War Japan in LK57 first.

I've got it but need to finish what has turned into Always War Japan in LK57 first.
:eek: :eek: :eek:

The Conquests are not much for a peaceful builders game, are they :)

Grimjack

I can't play tonight but will be able to finish tomorrow. IF Todd can take it by all means go. IF not then I will play tomorrow.

Sorry for the Delay

Hotrod

I'm sick as a dog right now. I suspect I've got the lovely flu. It mmay be a couple days before I can play :(

I will start tonight sorry for the delay. A bit of civ burn out after two tough rounds in LK56 and 57 I needed to get some sleep ;) and recoup.

Will have the turns up I am sure late tonight.

:scan: Looking for signs of moves. :scan:

Have played 5 turns and have taken way too long between turns.

Short update. Paid off Maygars with CoL to get out of 1 war. Concerned about 3 Longboat from Sweden.

No new techs. Again HATE the linear tech trees.

Byzantines are a royal pain.

That and it is taking me about 5 minutes or more btwn moves. I fear this may have to be my last round if I can't find a way to speed things up. :(.

Sorry I can't finish all 10 tonight. I will post tomorrow for sure.

Hotrod

PS. Anyone else think that a 6(6) Zerk is way too strong when the best defensive unit available now is a 1.2.1 spear or a 3.2.1 sword?

I suspect the Zerks are the way they are due to design decisions in the scenario. The zerks are to be feared greatly during this era. I suspect it is a bit unbalanced in the hands of a real player. Fortunately we are not forced to deal with them, as we may make peace, so we can take on softer targets.
They would give good victory points though, as they are 70 shields.
Seems like it is all about offence, seeing as it is a long long way to the Swiss pikes, while cavalry is not far off at all.
Grimjack

I'm still sick and there is no way I can play till sat afternoon. If
I can't keep something down tomorrow I may have to get fluid replacement. I'll try mto keep the team advised but if i go much over I may need a skip. :(

While we are waiting for Todd to get better, ( And please DO get better. It is no fun being sick. ) Could we discuss the weird tech dealings ?

I have been spending time to get a better hang of how the tech system works in this scenario ( conquest ? ).
There was a small note on the first roman tech, stating that this tech could not be traded for, it had to be researched.
Would the same hold true to all the other 'optional' techs ?
Or are there some 'tribes' that can trade their native techs between themselves, and only the techs that are 'foreign' to the cultural group are needed to be researched ?

I have tried a few turns as one of the barbarian tribes ( Couldn't resist the lure of Zerks :) ) I could only trade the required techs with other players.
If you have to research by yourself, there is no way you can research all the optionals by yourself, but you have to concentrate really hard if you want to get a tree.

The trees are also good at different things.
Roman tree gives ancient cavalry + aqueducts
Feudal tree gives knights and crusaders together with manors and some wonders
Byzantine gives libraries and hospitals.
Barbs get longboats and blacksmiths

HOwever, if you concentrate on the required techs, you will reach the high medieval age faster, and here there are banks, markets and defensive troops.

How many techs can one reasonably hope to get and use ?

Anyone found a place in the docs to see how it works, or is the editor the place to be if you want to know this stuff ?

Grimjack

The trees are also good at different things.
Roman tree gives ancient cavalry + aqueducts
Feudal tree gives knights and crusaders together with manors and some wonders
Byzantine gives libraries and hospitals.
Barbs get longboats and blacksmiths


Some comments about benefits for everyone (many units are Civ-specific), in regular Civ terms:

* Byzantine tree: Aquaducts, Drafting, Battlefield Med; and Spies (detect Invisible, can be crucial if you happen to fight Cordova - Inquisitors are better, but come quite late)

* Catholic tree: Libraries (called Monasteries), KN Wonder, HRE Wonder (=ToE + Heroic Epic + Pentagon), Bank (=Manor); Crusaders (best defensive unit before Swiss M)

* Arab: Libraries, Hospitals (give also culture here), BF Med; Assassins

Edit: Hospitals here are in fact Aquaducts! There are no real 'Hospitals' in Middle Ages, only Ports (Coastal cities only).

* Vikings: Factories (=Blacksmiths), Viking Sagas SM (Magellans + Heroic Epic)


Berserk, Longboats, Knights, Cataphracts, Ansars, Sipahi are only allowed for some Civs.

Also note the generic 3rd era tree offers Marketplaces, Mills, Pikes, Universities, but no Aquaduct-equivalent.

Because of this, it seems crucial for the European Civs to either get the Arab or Byz tree.

And yes, while you have to research the 'opening' Tech yourself, you can trade for the next ones; keep in mind there are different numbers of competitive Civs in each tree - trading for Arab Techs should be possible @3 or even @4 prices, while the Byz/ Viking Techs are often more expensive.

Hope that helps.

Yes, it helps a lot knowing you only have to research the first tech. Then it is suddenly feasible to climb those trees.

Thanks

Grimjack

LK58

1050 AD (0): We are still at war with 4 civs. A nice change from LK57. Bzyantines, Magyars and Swedes won't talk. Cordova will talk but we have more turns on the alliance with Castille. Will try to focus on getting more units for the eventual war with the Burgundy. We are down, early siege technology and Monasticism. Germany and Poland are the only civs I can see with it. One thing that is a concern is our coastal cities. The swedes have viking boats and amphibous assult zerks. Will try to beef up our defenses on the coast.

Can't afford cats or Monasticism, hope our economic possition improves soon. Swap Orleans from a horseman wasting 12 shields to a granary due in 3 turns. And change Rhiems from a settler to a spear, Ampurias swaps to a town hall from a curragh. Change Tours a barracks from a spear. I am wondering how hard we can push on the Cordovans, for right now will continue to send a few more units south but I am reluctant to move too many outside or boarders.

1053 AD (1): Cordova town of Valencia holds up to the Castille assult but we have units right there ready to grab it. Germany and Norway Ally vs. Burgundy. Paris builds a sword starts another. Tours builds the barracks starts a spear. Lost 1 sword to a vet spear but captured Valencia. Start a temple and put city on a diet. Can pickup viking sagas but concerned about trade value. No luck with earyseige or the other Monasticism. Build our embassy in Poland for 57 gold. He is building a Monastary and has 7 spears in town.

1056 AD (2): Angers builds a sword starts a horse and need to try and relocate our scientist. Boulogne builds swords starts town hall. Continue moving units to the SW but it is slow going.

1059 AD (3): More swords are built. Granary in Orleans starts a horsey. Lost a spear in Rhiems to a Byzantine swords. Bordeaux starts a blacksmith. Clearmont starts a granary. Lyons builds town hall starts horsey. Can't get cover to Rheims this turn hope the reg sword can get a win vs. the 3/4 sword. Well is Rheims worth 92 gold and 14gpt! :eek: I say no and don't make peace with Bzantynes yet. Nothing else new on the tech front.

1062 AD (4): Lose our sword in the middle of the world. Lose Rheims to the Byzantine sword. They have a ROP with the Burgundians. 3 longboats from Sweden appear off our coast near Lyons. Ghent builds spear starts blacksmith. Take my chances and kill the wounded sword in Rhiems with the vet spear in the area. We keep our baracks there but thats it :(. Fearing the worst from the Swede longboats I shuffle a few swords toward Lyons and move all 4 workers into the city. Change Clermont back to a spear. Give up Code of Laws to the Magyars to end the war. Peace with the Bzyantines is not soo cheap. Move out of Valencia toward the next Cordova city.

1065 AD (5): Angers builds a horse starts a spear. Lyons a horse starts a sword. Chartres a blacksmith starts a barracks. Techs have been completely stalled. Continueing buildup of our boarder towns. Bzyantines are still around and Swedes are out in the boats. Can't get peace for a reasonable amount. Still don't think Rheims is worth all our gold and gpt.

INBT: Celts declared on the Turks. Castille captures Cordovan city of Seville. As expected Rheims falls again :wallbash:

1068 AD (6): Ten minutes later! Paris builds a sword starts another. Orleans a horse Boulogne a town halls starts horseman. Clermont a spear starts a blacksmith. Danes start Bayeux Tapestry. And Magyars the HRE. Our progress in the SW is blocked by Castillian units. Okay I make a deal hoping for a 3fr or better. Buy Viking Sagas from Danes for 130 gold and 12 gpt. Viking Saga to Norway for 84 gold and a worker. Viking saga to Swedes for Peace.


1071 AD (7): Started and my entire system crashed spent the rest of the night figuring out what happend. Looks like my wife downloads a screensaver and changed my settings so it comes on after 3 minutes. When I was between turns waiting the screen saver kicked in my system locked and I had low virtual memory. :wallbash: I haven't had these problems with PTW but did have it with Civ3 vanilla.

We can build the Norse Saga. Many are building the Tapestry. Paris, Orleans and Claremont all need taxmen to avoid rioting. Start workers in Paris and Orleans to curb population. With only 1 lux a 10% lux cuts into an already terrible economy. :(. Without anyway to get to the Cordova cities I cancel the alliance with Castille. I will make one more push into Cordova then make peace. Trade our only quarry and our extra horses to Kieven Rus for Early Seigecraft. Shuffling units to hit Rhiems in a few turns. Only at war with Byzantines and Cordova now.

1074 AD (8): :wallbash: Abbasid have Mapmaking. We are losing gold and need clowns/taxmen. Too many units not enough targets and only 1 lux. Trade Early Siegcraft to Magyars for a worker. Demark has MapMaking and a boat load of gold :(. Sell Seigecraft to Castille for 30 gold and 3gpt. CoL to Celts for all there gold 10. Trade WM, to Fatimid for TM. Burgundy has MapMaking too. Early Seigecraft to Bulgars for 20 gold.

1077 AD (9): Moving to take Rhiems back. Poland declared on the Turks. As does Denmark. 2 horses are wounded but survive attacks from Cordova in the mountains outside there capital. Norway capture Burgundian city of Marseilles. Recapture Rhiems. Chartes completes a barracks. Wines to Denmark for 110 gold. We still can't afford Monasticism. I think our best bet is to use the :hammer: to get some techs from the Burgundians.

1080 AD (10): Finally the last turn. It takes 2 swords and a wounded horse to kill the last 2 Byzantine swords near Rhiems. Our party in Cordova is spent. Make Peace with him for Granada. Stacks of Castille's were ready to take it from him. No tech deals. We are 13 turns away from MM by self research. NOW is the Time to hit Burgundy and grabs some techs. We have a few units heading toward Rhiems and there are a few in the north that can be consolidated to hit the 2 cities up there. Poland, Norway and Germany have already cut into him hard. He also has all 3 techs we need. I would also recommned hooking up the last wines near Rhiems and the extra stone for trade help.

Here is the save;

http://civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-1080AD.zip

A word of warning! Make sure the first thing you do is change the preferences back to normal. I turned off many things and they need to be turned back on.

Sorry for the inconvenenince. It didn't even help just made things more confused :confused:

Start workers in Paris and Orleans to curb population.
Now that is sick. Our #1 priority has to be more luxuries. Stunting growth is not the right way to go.

=====================

CoL to Celts for all there gold 10.
Are we that desperate for cash? This is way below market value!

=====================

LKendter
Meldor
hotrod0823
ToddMarshall (currently playing)
Hopefully feeling better. The current game pace is not what I expect with a LK game.

Grimjack (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

There are NO luxuries available. They were the only ones without CoL I am not sure what CoL at 17th goes for. Paris at size 10 needs lux at 20%. That we can't afford.

Used the gold to get out of wars, get a couple more embassies and try to play catchup in the tech race.

Follow my last set of turns I think it best that it be my LAST set of turns. I don't want to hold up the game any longer because my machine sucks and I takes upwards of 10 minutes just on the interturns. :p

@Hotrod0823 - world map games aren't for you...
Sorry to see you go, but if your PC bites isn't much you can do.

========================

LKendter
Meldor
ToddMarshall (currently playing)
Grimjack (on deck)

Yeah - It's a bit disapponting :(, Trying to convince the wife we need an upgrade but no dice.

I will be following along though :D

I'm feeling a little better finally and think I can play tomorrow. If not, I will post that I need a swap/skip.

Lurker's comment:

Wines to Denmark for 110 gold. ... I think our best bet is to use the :hammer: to get some techs from the Burgundians.


Those two exclude each other - all your trade routes run through Burgundian territory, or, even worse, use the Burgundian Harbors. At this stage of the game, only Byzantium, Venice, Dorestad and the 3 Viking Capitals have Harbors...

Your only real chance to get more Lux is Santiago de Compostela :hammer:. Burgundy has Wool, but you cannot attack them if you plan to do any trades for a long time...

I'm not going to get to this tonite. I'm having way too many problems in RBC3a and its going to take tonite and maybe tomorrow to get through that one. Between that and catching up on shoping and work I just cant squeeze it in. If Grimjack is able to play tonite or tomorrow he should take the game. Sorry for holding things up.

-Maniac

@Grimjack - Please take the game and get a turn done. We will then see if Todd can return moves quickly.

This game is grinding to a halt - not a typical LK series game. :(

I will play tonight. I am somewhat at a loss for what to do. I will see if I can wreck our economy once again by building up a huge number of troops which we cannot use to attack with :)

Grimjack

Originally posted by Grimjack
Yes, it helps a lot knowing you only have to research the first tech. Then it is suddenly feasible to climb those trees.
Will the computer ever try to climb the "wrong" tech tree? I'm probably over-enchanted by the idea of these flavor technologies, but the whole idea of shopping around other cultures' developments for the holes in your own just feels cheat-y to me.

Obviously I'm free to play this conquest however I like; I was just curious about how y'all Epics players feel about that. Thanks.

I will not be able to finish tonight. Turns are taking a long time, as I need to do diplo every turn. Here is a taste of the preturn.

LK58, middle ages. We are France, and stuck in the middle, and somehow behind in tech. I wonder what they have done to the tech tree, as in a normal game, techs would have been dirt cheap with so many nations knowing the techs.

Start by checking diplo, so I am certain I know whom we are at war with, and whom we are not at war with.
Poland lacks Siegecraft, but is up Monasticism. All we have can only get doubful though.
Turks have MapMaking and Medieval combat. We have nothing they want.
Cordova has a worker.
Germany has Monasticism and Medieval Combat.
Abbasids have MapMaking, Medieval Combat and loads of gold.
England has MOnasticism
Danmark is really rich, and has MapMaking and Medieval combat
Burgundy seems to head the tech race, with Monasticism, Mapmaking and Medieval Combat.
Celts lack siegecraft, but they have nothing.
Fatimids have Medieval Combat and Mapmaking.

I could get Monasticism for all our money, all our income, our single horse, our single wines, and a wardeclaration against the Turks.
It is a bit steep. I will hold of for now.
We only seem to be at war with the Byzantines. Lets hope they wont sign up a lot of other parties.
I will need to get a road into Germany, to open up our trade options.
Hmm, or I could sign up with Burgundy on a war against Germany. Burgundy would pay a tech, almost two for such an alliance.

At 245 gold with 7 gpt, we are desperately strapped for cash as well. Markets and their equivalents are not until Middle Class or Feudalism.

Very well, I will see what I can do.
I can get MapMaking AND Medieval Combat, Or I can get Monasticism. I sign up against the Germans for MapMaking and Medieval combat plus 4 gold.
Trade Siegecraft for Territory map and 13 gold to poles. ( Poland is only one missing siegecraft, and I would liek to try the more expensive Medieval combat for his MOnasticism.
Monasticism from Poland for Medieval Combat, Map Making and our World map.
Trade MapMaking to Cordova for a worker and his World map.
Trade World maps with the Kievan Rus. The eastern nations are MONSTERS.
Get money and world map from England for World map.
Unfortunately I cannot get Denmark to ally against Germany, but I get 14 gold for our world map instead.
Wow, Isabella of Castille is rish, she gives us 5 gpt and 14 gold for our world map. I will see if I can sell her a tech or two too. Nope, she gave us all she had for our world map.
Not to be distracted, I sign peace with the Byzantines for worldmap and her 17 gold. I looked carefully before, to see we didn't have any alliance against Byzantines.
World map is now complete, so I do a second round just to see if I can get anything from the rich nations.

So, when trading ends, on the plus side, we now have tech parity with the tech leaders. We have 413 gold instead of 254, and +12 gpt instead of +3.
On the other side of the coin, we are locked into a war with Germany, a powerhouse of a nation. I believe though that Burgundy is in danger of losing its kings, and then we would be free to go to peace.
I build an embassy in Pest, the Magyar capital. They are 21 turns from Holy Roman Empire, they are running only 20% science, rest is income. Loads of spearmen though.
I give the Magyars Medieval Combat and MapMaking in order to get them to be a distraction on Germanys southern front. I wanted the POles as well, but they were to expensive.

All in all a not so quiet and fast Preturn.

On to playing the game.

The evenings set of turns. I will make the rest of the turns tomorrow. As it will be some 18 hours before starting to play again, any advice would be gratefully accepted.

On preferences, I turn off 'Animate own moves'. For some reason, this option is at a third of the speed of PtW. It annoys the heck out of me. Remember to turn it on again if you like seeing troops wading through molass.
I also decide to live a little dangerously and only have two defenders in our coastal cities. I know we need three, but we cannot afford it until we have markets. SPeaking of markets, I put our scientist to work on Feudalism. We cannord afford to research faster than 40 turns, so once again, Leonardo will sit alone in his chambers and think.
I wonder briefly why there are four Norwegian workers travelling through our hinterlands, but decide it doesn't matter.
Ooo, we can chose between swordsman and Medieval infantry. Cool.

IBT: Cordova helps our swordsmen to move. Norway and Denmark allies against the Turks. Denmark signs up the Fatimid Caliphate as well. The longships have an obscene seven in movement rate.
Paris Medieval->Sword ( 15 spt. ) Some lux deal got broken, as I need to fix riots in several cities that were on the edge.
Poles start Bayeux Tapestry, as do the Magyars.

1083(1). Ahh, it was not a lux deal. I had foolishly not checked the happines after moving away the MP garrisons. Argg, being so careful, and then making a newbie mistake.
Almost switch Paris to monastery before checking in the Civilopedia that it gives research in this conquest, and not happines.
As we can afford a 10% lux tax, I start that. Lots of fiddling with the cities.
I sell around world map and go from 395 to 535 gold. :o

IBT:Magyars sign peace with our friends the Burgundy. oops, a german knight :o appears out of Basel and trample a spearman on a hill. This was not very good, or it might be very good, as with some luck, we could possibly extort that tech from them. I just hope the Magyars and Burgundy can absorb most of Germanys forces.
Orleans Medieval->Medieval, Angers Town Hall->Medieval. Lyons Swordsman->Swordsman,

1086 I try to collect some larger stacks of troops before tackling his knight. If I had attacked, I would have been exposed and probably wounded. As it is, I have a fair chance of surviving, fortified on a hill. Hmm, Perhaps now. Attack 5 on a defense 2 fortified on a hill.

IBT: Harald of Norway renew his peace treaty. in the battle for the hill outside Basel, we lose a medieval who somehow ended up on top of the stack to a swordsman. We then defeat another swordsman and the knight.
Paris Swordsman->Swordsman. Lots of people start to weave a big tapestry.

1089:Our cities are not very well optimized for Medievals. The large producers have between 15-18 spt. I strongly suspect without any mathematical proof that three swordsmen are stronger than two Medievals. However, since we haev an upkeep cost as well, we may be better off building medievals in any case.
Hmm, England has Feudalism, but not even Map Making, Medieval Combat, 633 gold, 14 gpt and communications with Rus and Byzantines will pry it out of her greedy paws. It is a close thing though.
As Feudalism is out, I switch a lot of swordsmen to horsemen. We have the money to upgrade a few at least.
I will probably see if I can get it off the english if I ditch our lux tax. Then hopefully I can trade it to the danes to get some income back.

Grimjack

Sorry for the crappy interturn. Ally against Germany nice move !

How did the price of peace with Byzantine drop soo low.

The prize didn't drop, but I think the World map was quite valuable after I had acquired the entire map.
I do not consider the interturn crappy, rather you had left the options open for me :)

Grimjack

1089(3) Cont.
I bite the bullet, and take an even bigger chance than when I did the germany deal. I use up all our money, for a trade with ENgland for Feudalism.
They get 552 gold, 23 gpt, world map, contact with Byzantines, Rus, Map Making and Medieval Combat for Feudalism.
I am hoping the new ability to build knights will stem the Germans counters. I have realized how many spares I need to bring if I want to have a stack large enough to be effective when I reach his cities.
Strength 5 knights are devastating against strength 2 defenders standing with tehir pants down.
Also, we can build the Manor, a house that make the rish richer. ( +50 lux tax. ) Both of those items are critically needed.
Ack, none of the rich nations had invested in this branch of tech. I cannot resell Feudalism at any reasonable price. We have a shot economy. Time to go to work repairing it.
Switch many cities to knights or Manors.

IBT: No large doomstacks appearing out of Germany yet. They start the Doomsday book somewhere though.
Lyons Complete Catapult. MMed for max gold while still 10 spt and stuck on cat production.

1092(4) I get two workers and three gold from Magyars for Manasticism. ( I think enough turns have passed so that we are allowed to buy workers. )
Burgundy,Magyars and POland are those nations lacking in Feudalism. Keep a watch on them to see if they ever get any money.
I get another worker from the Bulgars for Map Making. I move a swordsman to block a single German spearman.
The golden days of selling maps seem to be over, as I can 'only' get 12 coins.

IBT: Ooops, Germany signs in Norway against us. Hopefully we can regain Marseille before it is time to sign peace.

1095(5) Our elite horse score a victory on a Norwegian berzerk, but no luck.

IBT:I get a bit nervous as I see four german knights whale on Aix-La-Chap, the Burgundian capital. This is just two sectors from Ghent.

1098(6) Our four horsemen are not enough to get Marseilles from the two elite zerks guarding it. One zerk goes down though. All our horses retreat, so no losses for us.
Our single knight gets to play zone defense up north. I am hoping the Burgundy counter will do something nasty to the germans, otherwise it may get messy.

IBT: Turks and Magyars sign peace. Norway razes a Burgundian city, and sends 5 workers towards Marseille. A longship sails out of Marseilles also, it is likely it has an elite zerk onboard, as Marseill now has a spear on top.
Burgundy and Turks sign peace. Germany sends eight knights against Aix-La... this turn. They do not lose a single knight. I am getting a bit worried now. If Germany starts bothering us instead, then we would be in serious trouble.
Ghent: Knight->Spear
As if Germany was not strong enough before, now they complete Holy Roman Empire......
Huge cascade to Tapestry, but none completes it.

1101(7) I will see what I can do to help Burgundy, and I send our two knights to clear out two wounded german knights. Ans lo and behold, we enter a golden age ;:);) :o :band:
We capture back Marseilles from the two spearmen that guarded it. It comes with two workers. A horseman captures another stack of six workers, but is left exposed to a wounded zerk.
Our income jumps to +53 gpt. I like that one. it was needed.
There is still no way to speak with the germans. I had hoped for a quick peace now, so we can fight someone else than a big bad AI in their golden age.

IBT: The norwegians counter is vicous. They have two ships with a zerk on each ship, and that is two dead swordsmen. The wounded zerk kills of the spear I had set to guard our exposed horse. We will need to keep lots of troops in our cities while the Norwegians attack from their longboats.
Burgundy and Turks ally against the russians. Norway declares on the Magyar for some weird reason. Possibly as part of an MA deal with parties unknown. Germany signs up the Polish as well in the war against teh Magyars. I see the germans attack a Burgund city with a redlined knight and win. And here they come. No less than four knights enters our territory.
We have two knights :) ONe is a yellowlined elite, as he survived an attack by a german sword.
Orleans Manor->Knight, Bordeaux Blacksmith->Medieval, Lyons Sword->Cat
English city of Lepton completes Doomsday book.

1104(8) I use our gold to upgrade a wounded horse to knight. I spend a lot of time trying to patch up the loose net that is our defense.

IBT: The norwegian raiders are redlined now, but they defeat a spear and a sword this turn, before the ships goes off towards the west.
Castile and Denmark ally against the Turks. The Germans lose four knights against Aix-La this turn. HOwever they kill off two spears in Paris, and it is now weakly defended. I will see what I can do about this.
Paris Manor->Spearman,Ghent Spear->Spear,Orleans Sword->Sword, Angers Manor->Knight, Lyons Cat->Cat,
Germans Start Knights Templar :(

1107(9) :help:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58_Germans.jpg
Start killing knights. Due to a cordoban settler/spear pair, I cannot counterattack from hills.
First knight falls to one of our knights. Second knight falls to a swordsman. Third knight kills a sword of ours before falling to yet another sword.
Fourth knight falls to one of our knights. I guard this exposed one with two swordsmen.
Outside Ghent, I kill off a stray spearman.
Germany speaks with us, I can only hope he either kills Burgundy, or make peace with him, as this is one fight we should not fight right now in our GA.
Germany is up Chivalry and Divine Right,but will take peace for 40 gold. I will not wreck our rep this easily though.
I get Norway to pay us 14 gold and world map for peace. That ought to lessen the chances of a dogpile somewhat.
Hmm, that softened up germany a bit, they will now pay us a token amount for peace.
Paris can get 35 spt if we go one food short. I chose to go 31 spt with one food to much instead, and produce swordsmen. I do not think this is optimal other than in this particular moment, when we are bleeding units to the german knights.

IBT: Celts and turks sign peace treaty. Cordova declare on the poor Burgundians. Celts declare on the Burgundians as well. This does not bode well for Burgundy Germany peace..
German knights kill off a swordsman guarding an exposed and wounded knight of ours.
Paris Sword->Sword, Orleans Sword->Sword,Ampurias Spear->Spear, Boulogne Knight->Knight,Lyons Cat->Cat, Chartres Knight->Knight,

1110AD (10) A knight kill off the exposed german knight before returning to Paris. I found Avignon on the coast where there had been a Burgundian city earlier.
I just noticed we could build walls. I have changed Ghent to walls, but this will waste a turn of production. You may want to build a spear or cat instead.
I have fortified our troops mainly in Orleans and Paris, waiting for the germans to expose themselves. I have not dared to attack while they have large stacks just waiting to counterattack.
The cats are starting to make a difference, and we may hold them off quite well. It was an unexpected stroke of good luck that I decided to take the deal with ENgland for knights, as I had no idea they would start our golden age.
If we manage to get peace with the germans, we might want to look sharply at the Polish cities of Antwerp and Genoa. If we take those, we will get a second lux after cultural expansion. Of course, we could also rush the temple in Valencia, and build a long long road.
Celts got money from somewhere, and I sell them Siegecraft for 110 gold. Castile has 50 gold, but I will not sell monasticism that cheaply. Abbasids have probably traded with Germany, as they now have Divine Right, and we can get it for most of our money. I will let Lee decide if we want to trade all our rush money for a tech allowing us to build a combination courthouse/factory/marketplace
That is a tech likely to go down in price as well. It is a general tech though, so we will probably be able to resell it to Denmark/England and other semi rich countries.
Your decision Lee. Map sales are done.

Save: Here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58_1110AD.zip)

Grimjack

LKendter (currently playing) two games I get feast mode. :rolleyes:
Meldor (on deck)
ToddMarshall
Grimjack

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

This cold is really slowing me down. I slept the evening, woke up recent and am ready to head back to bed. I hope to complete the turn tomorrow.

Take your time, and play at your top. It is not a trivial situation I handed to you :)

Grimjack

1110 AD (pre-turn)
We are only at war with Germany, but that looks like enough based on the number of troops I am seeing. One goal I already see is to get those workers by Rheims done with their project and out of the way. I am surprised Germany hasn't already come after them.

I am stuck with 10 turns of war unless the Magyars and Burgundians make peace with Germany.
Our trade rep is at serious risk as we appear to depend on the Burgundian ports.

We are in trouble at the moment for victory points - we have 4075 and Germany has 6,795.

To stop the leader I decide on extra long German war. I ship Poland feudalism and get back $27 and wm to declare war on Germany. I build an expensive embassy with the Turks and find they are just 8 turns from the Sun Tzu equivalent. I build an embassy with the Kiev Russians and find they can build Berserks. Despite a two tech lead I can't get them to declare on Germany. :(
(I) Poland and the Turks sign a peace treaty.
I watch all the German troops run away.


1113 AD
(I) Cordova and Norway ally vs. Magyars.
Fatimid and Turks sign a peace treaty.
OUCH - Bulgars and Germany ally vs. the Magyars.


1116 AD
The tech for pikeman has arrived, but the price is absurd.
(I) Burgundy and Turks ally vs. Abbasids. Burgundy has a death wish.
Sweden declares war on the Poles. Oh goodie, our ally has another enemy.


1119 AD
I buy a Danish worker from the Byzantine for Map Making.


1122 AD
(I) Bulgars and Turks sign a peace treaty.
Byzantines and Denmark ally against the Turks.


1125 AD
Pikeman have a defense of 4! We lost a few troops, but we capture Basel from Germany. It comes with 6 workers. [dance]
(I) The Poles build the Bayeux Tapestry.


1128 AD
(I) Magyars and Byzantines ally vs. Abbasids.
Celts and Germany ally vs. Magyars.
The English and Danes are building Robin Hood.


1131 AD
The Abbasids already beat us to Middle Class. However, I will keep the 40-turn research going. We can't even afford the other techs available.
(I) Cordova declares war on the Poles.


1134 AD
We capture Antwerp from Germany. It comes with 4 workers. The only trouble is that the city will be light on defenders until the knights heal.
The Poles have captured Frankfurt!
(I) Poland and Demark ally vs. the Turks.
The Germans complete Knights Templar in Salzburg. It is stronger in this game as it functions as Leo's plus a free Crusader every 8 turns.


1137 AD
(I) Celts and Denmark ally vs. Turks.
Castile and Abbasids ally vs. Magyars.


1140 AD
The German city of Metz is captured.

A knight kills an archer protecting a German leader by Alx-ca... The knight is dead, but I couldn't let that leader go home.


1143 AD
Bulgars and Abbasids ally vs. Byzantines.

We beat the crap out of Strasbourg, but it holds. We get to see the catapult defending the city bug. We run out of attackers when the city is probably down to a 1 hp weak unit.


Summary:
Be extremely careful with resource trading. We are depending on the dying Burgundian ports

Germany is number one for victory points. Germany must be banished to those junk cities near Asia for us to win. Every captured city gets us close to both domination and a victory point win.

LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
ToddMarshall (on deck)
Grimjack

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-1143AD.zip

Originally posted by LKendter
The English and Danes are building Robin Hood.
What are they building him out of--clay?

It is in the queue

I have a problem. I have no net access till monday from home since Verizon screwed up my DSL somehow. I had to get permission from work just to access this site to post this :(

Great set of turns Lee. Imagine that, taking the :hammer: to the germans, instead of hunkering down. :)

Grimjack

[EDIT] Fixed a typo :blush:

Great set of turns Charis.
:confused: :confused: :confused:
What this Charis get into this game?
Did I get a name transplant. :crazyeye:

It was Charis-Kendter who played... :lol:

It is in the queue
It is in the queue for over 48 hours. Any idea when some moves?

:lol:

Must be the gavel of Charis Ca-Ching!
:hammer:

Good luck beating down those Germans, and to all in the thread,
Happy Holidays :)
Charis

I finished LK57 Saturday and started this one yesterday. I would have finished it but the wife and kids insisted I take them to see that silly LotR movie :D

I will finish it and post it tonight.

1143 AD (0)
Not much to do, we are behind in tech and there is nothing for us to do. We don't have enough money to swing a deal. The highest tech is own by the Turks but all our money doesn' tget close. The rest want too much for the other techs. Not enough money for ra safe steal.I go around and get some money for the world map and sell Feudalism to several for gpt and cash deals, moving income up.
(I) Germany moves in some units but no counters. At a knight and pike move into the city. They also bring up an archer and spear on one mountain, a knight on another and an archer on top of one more.

1146 AD (1)
OK, Middle Class is now on the table and we are half done reasearching it. Time to let the deals fly.
Abbasid gets 45gpt and 729g for Middle Class
England gets Middle Class and 9 gpt for Divine Right.
Denmark get Middle Class for 54g and Pole Arms.
Turks get Middle Class, Divine Right, Pole Arms 2gpt and 54g for Theology
Now to make our money back
Abbasid gets Theology for 68gpt. No one else even comes close to offering a good price
Byzantines get Middle Class for Dyes and Tar.
Cordova gets Middle Class for 14gpt, 36g and a worker.

The cat hits the knight on top and a reg pike appears at Strasburg. Our elite sword takes out the pike, our regular swrod takes out the knight, we attack with a 2HP elite and take out one of their kings. Strasburg is our. After much thought I keep it. Clean up the other 5 German units lying about the countryside. Didn't the Germans know that ICS is a no-no in SGs? Swap Paris to Notre Dame. All core cities swapped to markets.
(I) Germans and Maygars make peace. Sweden declares on the Magyars. Caliphate declares Turks. We lose a knight to a German counter.

1149 AD (2)
Take out offending German knight. Lose a knight but raze Colongne, we only get one worker.
(I) Burgundy and Abbasids ally against Byzantines. Three German knights appear near the former site of Colonge. Orleans builds our first market and goes back to knights.

1152 AD (3)
Two vet knights take out two vet pikes, an elite knight takes out a reg pike and we raze Ausburg and capture "The Splinter of the True Cross". I have a health knight sieze it and start back to Paris. With this and our first piece we can now gain 20000 victory pints by returning them to Jerusalem. We get 4 workers and relieve pressure on Strasburg. We can now advece on the German capital but first we head for Warzburg. Cahnge Ampurias to a settler to fill a gap on the German border created by our raxing the city. Start upgrading our spears.
(I) The Bulgars and Swedes ally against Poland. Seden declares war on the Turks. We lose one knight the Germans lose two and leave one redlined. Ampurias settler->knight, Angers Market->Knight. Metz Temple->Rax, Basel Rax->market, Rhiems settler->temple.

1155 AD (4)
It cost us several knights but we capture Wurzburg, 3 cats and a worker. We also get a GL.
(I) Burgundy and Abbasids ally against the Magyars. Lose a Knight to German counter, they land a sword next to Granada. Boulogne market->Knight.

1158 AD (5)
The Knights are resting. The slow units and cats advance on the German capital. I build an army with the GL. Pick off a pike and two knights.
(I) Castile and Burgundy ally against the Byzantines. The Bulgers and Abbasids ally against the Turks. We lose a sword and Knight to German counters. Orleans Knight->Knight, Bordeaux Market->Knight, Strasbourg Temple->Rax, Lyons Market->Knight, Chartres Market->Pike.

1161 AD (6)
We clean up more German units and advance to slow ones to just outside the capital. Granada is only defended by a sword so it attacks the German sword and promotes.
(I) The Bulgars and Norway ally against the Byzantines. We lose two swords to counters. Our GA ends! Angers Knight->Knight, Clermont market->knight, Metz Rax->Pike,

1164 AD (7)
Take out an elite Crusader, a knight and a pike. Start bombardment of the capital.
(I) Bulgars and Magyars make happy. The Caliphate declares war on the Magyars. Maygars and Poland make happy. Kievan Rus and Abbasids ally against the Byzantines. Strasbourg Rax->Pike, Chartres Pike->Pike.

1167 AD (8)
The city of Rouen is built in the alps. Slowly building the SoD outside the German capital. Kill off one knight.
(I) Sweden delcares on the Norwegians. TheMagyars and Byzantines ally agianst the Kievan Rus. Poland and German make peace. Lose a knight and a sword in the SoD. Nantes Blacksmith->Pikeman. Boulogne Knight->Knight. Metz Pike->Pike, Antwerp Walls->Rax. Granada Rax->Spear. Tours TwonHall->market.

1170 AD (9)
I pound the capital again.

I will leave the game here so the next person has the choice of pursuing the war with Germany or taking peace and four workers or peace and a discount on Chivalry.

WARNING: The knight in Paris that show a red color is not to be used to attack with. That knight carry's the "The Splinter of the True Cross". do not lose him as he is now worth 10000 victory points if we can get him inside Jerusalem. I would suggest that we start building the invasion fleet now.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-1170AD.zip

I will leave the game here so the next person has the choice of pursuing the war with Germany or taking peace and four workers or peace and a discount on Chivalry.

My opinion - death to Germany! If nothing else, we want their good wonders!



LKendter
Meldor
ToddMarshall (currently playing)
Grimjack (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

Death to Germany :)
I also counted only one dead german king. That means we can capture their capital, as the cities get razed when the last king dies. If we eliminate the Germans, it might be a good thing to keep a settler or two handy.

On another note, how about the patch ?
Grimjack

If the holy relic doesn't count then yes, there are two German kings left.

There is one settler up front.

LKendter (on deck)
Meldor
ToddMarshall (skipped - heading toward drop)
Grimjack (currently playing)

Ooo, Sorry didn't know I was up.
Got it,
Will see what I can do about the Germans.

Grimjack

LK58, The troubled middle ages.

1170: With the rejuvenation process rushed, it is a grumpy Grimjack who enters the throneroom of the french.
Good decision on Byzantine, Aqueducts would really help us. I suspect we lack libraries as we would need 60% science to get better than min time though.
Hmm, I will have to take a break rereading previous rulers notes, as wonderbuilding Paris is not shield maximized.
Diplomatic status:
Germany wars against us, Turks and Burgundy.
Most of the world wars against the Turks.
Cordova is backwards, and has two workers for sale. Will check back later if I need two more workers.
Sweden is also backwards, and has 570 gold. I will probably sell them Middle class for that money. Hopefully they will get more money to pay us then.
Magyars is also backwards, and they lack wine. They do own 200 gold though.
Bulgars also have two workers for sale.
England is up Chivalry but wont sell.
Abbasids is up Invention and Religious Persecution. Religious Persecution with the Inquisitor is something we very much want. 40 Shields for 4-1-1 that treat all terrain as road and see invisible...

Building an embassy in Jerusalem reveals they have 11 turns left on Notre Dame. They are running 100% science. Thats something I have not seen before.
They have Library, and Arab Medicine. They also have four luxes, iron, horses and tar. Garrison in Jerusalem looks to be 12 pikemen, a swordsman and a king.
I waste 2 shields and one turns worth of production getting a SHeriff's officed in Paris instead of the doomed Notre Dame. I realize I will have to hire a clown to cover the unhappiness the sheriffs generate, but I think the added taxes and work will make it worth it.
I get the 579 gold Seden had for Middle Class. I also get the workers out of Bulgars and Cordova, also for Middle Class. I want them to get money so I can trade them more techs.

IBT: England and Abbasids ally against Byzantines. A german knight falls against our siegestack. Another german knight kills one of our knights and hide in Regensburg.
Paris Sheriff->Knight, Orleans Knight->Knight, Strasburg Pike->pike

1173: Get three workers and 163 gold by trading Middle class to Magyars. Next turn we will have enough money for a medium steal. That steal could possibly net us three techs, so it might very well be worth it.
Kill off a german knight, and a pike.

IBT:
German counters kill a knight and a pike, while they lose one knight. Ghent Market->Manor, Anger Knight->Sheriff
Lyons Knight->knight,

1176: Kill off four german knights, and a pike, but we are gassed, and I aim to seek peace. Regensburg has lots of pikes, and it will take a long siege to break it when we have so few troops available. Most of our troops are spent trying to fend off the german incursions.
The careful steal from the Abbasids succeeds :band:
I can chose between Arab Learning, Mercantilism, Religious Persecution and Invention. I take Religious Persecution.
11 gpt and Persecution gets us Invention from the English. Cancel the alliance with Burgundy against the germans.
Sign peace with germany together with Chivalry and four workers for Invention.
I was really fighting a stalemate here, even with the army. Barring a lucky break, it would have been even worse as Germany devoted more and more of their troops against us. I would have loved to get my hands on the wonder we were seiging for though.
Change Valencia to a worker, hoping to road the wool in the hills outside. Rush the temple in Wurzburg for the culture.

IBT: Bulgars sign peace with Byzantines. Our german friends help us move our troops out of Germany. Get popup about the Inquisition. It is a forbidden palace, so I will wait until the patch comes out.
Valencia Worker->Barracks, Wurzburg Temple->Town Hall, Tours riots with 3-1-3 citizens :? Chartres Pike->Granary,

1179 We have enough victory points so that if we get our two treasures to Jerusalem, we will win. I will devote much effort to reaching this goal.
Burgundy is using archers on offense though, and that looks mighty tempting to free up our northern borders a bit.
Abbasids looks a monster. Their coffers increase by 700 gold every turn. We will need a major dogpile to get our troops into Jerusalem.
I sell Feudalism on the cheap to Castile for 67 gold and 3 gpt. Only we and Abbasids have any kind of income.
I notice we still can only build curraghs. I will have to fix this ASAP.

IBT: Cordova and Castile sign peace.
Paris: Knight->Cathedral, Bolougne Knight->Knight, Clermont Knight->Knight,Marseilles Temple->Curragh ( Curragh upgrades to galley. ) Lyons Inquisitor->InquisitorAvignon Temple->Curragh

1182 Move troops generally southwards. We do not need anything other than seamanship and some galleys. While it would be good to have a few more luxes, they are not necessary. ( I hope. )
The money I save for a buy or steal when Seamanship comes available.

IBT: Magyar and Celts sign peace. Burgundy and POland sign peace, Celts and Abbasids sign alliance against Byzantines.Cast8ile and Byzantines sign peace,
Bordeaux Knight->Sheriff, Rheims Temple->Granary,

1185 Movement

IBT: Turks and Swedes sign peace. Germany and Abbasids sign alliance against Magyars. Fatimids and Abbasids sign against Byzantine,
Orleans Knight->Longbow, Lyons Inquisitor->Inquisitor
Danish city of Vorbasse completes Robin Hood.

1188 Road a bit of the unroaded tiles. Collect our troops outside Marseilles. I trade Sweden Theology for Furs and 5 gpt. Spend quite some time optimizing cities. Do not earn much from it though.
I ship quarry to Germany for 313 gold. I can get four workers for quarry from Turks, but the turks are pounded heavily, and I do not know if they will last for 20 turns.
Abbasids have managed to get Professional armies now. Jerusalem will be that much harder to hit. I get 750 gold from them for our quarry though. I am fairly certain it will take more than 20 turns to build up the 10 galleys we will need to get our troops to Jerusalem.
I get 100 gold from Denmark for our Wines. We have quite a bit of gold now. I am pondering a steal from Byzantine or Bulgars, as they are the ones most likely to have developed the tree with Aqueducts. Bulgars seem to be a safe non player to steal from, and a safe steal later we haev Byzantine Ingenuity.
Set our scientist on Seamanship. I trade Theologu to Kievan Rus for Lost Roman Secrets, Trade Theology to Bulgars for Heavy Cavalry and Finally I trade Religious Persecution with 8 gpt to Byzantines for Defender of Europe and Intelligence operations.
Switch our size six landlocked cities into Aqueducts. I will not do the same switch into Arab learning, as I do not think we need any Hospitals, and we will not do any research on our own.

IBT: Abbasids sign in Sweden against Byzantine, and then they sign peace with the Byzantines.
Paris: Cathedral->Knight

1191 MM Paris and adjoining cities so that Paris reaches 35 spt. I suspect Paris will produce knights until the end of game now.
We have roaded in wool now, and I nix lux taxes, and get a scientist in Angers. It is size 12, so having a food surplus is really optional.
We can get Silks from the Byzantines, but as the need is not great, and all they want from us is hard cash, I decline this deal.

IBT: Turks and Castille sign peace. Bulgars and Byzantines sign against England,Norway and Fatimids.

1194: Germany has managed to acquire Professional Armies. England has probably bought it from Germany, as England now has it too, but no money.

IBT: Magyars and Fatimids sign peace, Norway gets down to a single city. Denmark and Abbasids sign against Magyars, Abbasids and Germany sign alliance against Burgundy.
Paris Knight->Knight, Chartres Granary->Pikeman,

1197 Debate if I should join workers, but I will wait and let next leader make that decision. I move the army to Bordeaux just in case the two Swedish longships will get frisky.

IBT:Poland and Cordova sign peace, England and Abbasids sign against Magyars,
Nantes Granary->Market,Boulogne Aqueduct->Granary,Marseilles Curragh->Curragh,Metz Pike->Pike,Avignon Curragh->Barracks ( For upgrading our pikemen, It may be better to continue the Curraghs. )

1200: I start a forestchop outside Basel in order to draw irrigation up north. There are hills enough outside Basel so that we will not miss the forest much. I give Norway Invention for their three workers.
I will leave the army awake, so you can decide if you want him on the south or west coast.

The save is here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58_1200AD.zip)

I would recommend to start merging workers into our more slow growing cities in order to get production up. If Meldor is correct about our treasures giving 10.000 victory points, all we need to do is to get our two treasures into Jerusalem.
Having some 20 knights, 10 Swiss and 10 cats ought to get us there. It is maybe feasible to trek across land, but then we would have to cross a fair bit of Abbasid countryside.

Grimjack

The correct link is:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58_1200AD.zip

LKendter (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
ToddMarshall
Grimjack

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

Lee, is there anyway for us to swap or you to finish tonight? I can play tomorrow, but after that it will be a week and a half before I can play again.

Take the game now. I haven't had a chance to touch it yet. No way I will finish.

With the week and 1 half break I hope Todd shows up. I don't want the game in limbo that long or 2 players that long.

I have it and will try to have it back up as soon as possible. It maybe time to get another player in.

I assume, as Grimjack did that we are going to go all out to take Jerusalem? With the time clock expiring, this is about the only way I see for us to pull this one out. I would like to replau this one with the patch and see how it is with a saner tech rate.

I have patched my copy, do I need to unpatch to play?

I have the patch - so I will patch my game before I play.

I have to apologize for holding you up but I will not be able to play this. The events of the move have made it so I have less time than I thought.

I will hopefully be at a point were I can play again on the 5th or 6th.

Again, sorry for the trouble.

Beware of the patch though. It seems like the averaging of combat is still in in the Beta patch.

I have not tested very much, but played a bit on a conquest where I tried to take out 2 pikemen with 1-1-2's, and I failed three times with stacks ten deep. That would be highly unlikely with the normal rules, but not uncommon if the averaging rules where in effect.

I will see if I can dig up some further info in the patch threads, but I would test the patch before commiting it to live games.

I do not think it would be very hard to get a win even without Jerusalem, as when you eliminate a civ, you get VPs for all cities razed, as well as all units destroyed in the regicide. It would be much more tedious and not as fulfilling though.

Grimjack

I will try to get this done tonight or tommorrow.

With Todd MIA and Meldor on long break I just don't feel the need to complete a turn.

No, I would rather play with a full roster. Some of the charm disappears when you have to few people. The feeling of having a new game handed to you every few days disappears.

Grimjack

My laptop just died, and that is the machine that can handle running CivIII. The desktop I am on is to out of date. With the roster problems the only thing I can do is wait for Meldor to get back from vacation. I don't know if ToddMarshall is even still with us. I can't skip to Grimjack who just played.

LKendter (indefinite skip pending what sounds like new hard drive)
Meldor (out until Jan 5 / 6) (currently playing)
ToddMarshall (on deck)
Grimjack


Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

My condolances on the laptop drive. I will hope you get an easy and fast replacement.

Grimjack

I have dropped ToddMarshall. Unless he posts here he is out of the game.

I still have no idea why I try to reboot 6+ times to get really weird error messages. The machine is working for now, so I am taking the game. This is already one of the worst delays ever in a LK series game.

LKendter (currently playing)
Meldor (out until Jan 5 / 6) (on deck)
Grimjack

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

1200 AD (pre-turn)
I want this last original pre-patch game OVER.
The insanity of the unpatched game has made Galactic Civ much more interesting even though it has less depth. If the LK series is to survive, this game needs to end.

The current turn is 119 of 204. I am not sure how we are at such an odd number. Getting the 2 goodies to Jerusalem will end this game the fastest, so that is my goal.

I cancel a RoP we were paying England $23/turn for it. It must have been a leftover from a tech deal.

My goal this round is ships built. Once Seamanship is built we can upgrade a stack of Curragh to Galley to land in Jerusalem.

(I) Turks and Celts sign peace.
Burgundy and England ally vs. the Bulgars.


1203 AD
(I) Castile and Byzantines ally vs. Norway.
:wallbash: Wurzburg flips back to Germany taking away a Quarry source. Multiple units were lost.


1206 AD
It cost us $29/turn to continue to get dyes from Byzantine.

(I) Burgundy and Cordova sign peace.
Magyars and Cordova sign peace.
Abbasid complete Notre Dame (equivalent to Bach's) in Jerusalem.


1209 AD
(I) Turks and Germany sign peace.


1212 AD
(I) A civ is toasted as Swedish forces destroy the Norwegians.
Byzantines and England sign a peace treaty.
Poland and Abbasids ally vs. Burgundy. How is Burgundy still in this game?
Celts and Abbasids ally vs. Magyars.


1218 AD
We can trade Cordova Religious Persecution for Seamanship. We can build harbors and galleys. [dance] Can you say Hello Jerusalem?
(I) The Bulgars demand wines. I tell them to shove it and they wimp out.


1221 AD
(I) Castile declares war on Cordova.


1224 AD
(I) Sweden and Magyars sign a peace treaty.
Kievan Rus and Turks sign a peace treaty.
Turks and Denmark sign a peace treaty.
Byzantines declare war on the Abbasids.


1230 AD
Castile and Abbasids ally vs. Turks.
Kievan Rus and Byzantines sign a peace treaty.


Summary:
The turns are back in sync as we are at turn 130. Please play 10 each from now on.

The galley stack with troops is started to load up for a middle eastern trip.

The two knights under the army have the goodies for Jerusalem! Use in fighting under penalty of death.




LKendter
Meldor (out until Jan 5 / 6) (currently playing)
Grimjack (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-1233AD.zip

I don't want to frighten you, and I also wish you are able to win this really soon; I really enjoy reading the LK series, and this rather stalled game must come to an end.

But: Make sure you ship enough units to the Holy Land to succeed. In my game with the Franks (and that was only Monarch, and against the somewhat crippled beta test AI), I needed 5 Knight Armies, 5 Elite/ Vet Knights, 10 Longbows and a Swiss Merc Army to take Jerusalem in one turn - and my forces in the open would have been whipped out soon if I hadn't taken it in one assault. The Abbas had some Swissies, but most Defenders where actually Pikes, and I guess they'll know Polearms before you reach them...also, they'll attack you with lots of Assassins, once you land there, and you cannot see those :)

Maybe you should try to capture Cyprus before, otherwise you'll need lots of Galleys.

But of course, your superior skills may prove me wrong ;) .

I suspect we can distract at least some of the Assassins by making some other nation like the Byzantines or Turks fight them as well.

As to defenders, we will have to investigate the city before committing any fleet.
Having a forward base for staging might not be a bad idea, then we could heal if it came to a protracted siege.
If we have enough ships, we could send along a large amount of workers, so we could get a barricade built.

The assassins would make it a two stage operation though, as if they singled out the treasure carriers, the entire operation would quickly become meaningless.

Grimjack

Well the good news is I got us up to 6 of 7 galleys already (game not loaded right now). Those already loaded with a bunch of catapults, a few pikes and a lot of knights. We aren't ready yet, but the fleet is getting in shape. I certainly want the knight army on the ships and the special knights are not on board.

Meldor should hopefully be back today and this game can get going again.

What I did was:

I settled Cyprus really early in the game. Occassionally, I shipped a few spare outdated units there (esp the leftover Archers from early wars). Once I had ferried my forces there, I landed a defensive stack including a Settler next to Jerusalem after declaring. Next turn, Harbor founded, and I shipped everything there, moved next to Jerusalem, and barely managed to take it as described.

As the good Doc mentioned - Expect around 12-15 defenders in Jerusalem! :eek: Most or all will be Swiss or at least Pikes by the time you get there. You don't really need to worry much about a counterattack if you declare & land in one turn, and attack the next. (Thank goodness the Abbids don't have rails!) :D
It will be an extremely bloody fight, but who cares what you have leftover when you can cash in 20,000 Victory points in one turn!?
Another word of warning, your neighbors seem to know when your huge force leaves your shores --- I was surprise attacked the very next turn!

I am not sure what is going on with Meldor. I wonder if his move is going worse then anticipated. I have to assume worse case and that he may be gone several days. I can't as Grimjack to take another turn.
The new person will probably play one, two rounds at most. I am looking to fill the open slot - previous experience at least with demigod is required.

LKendter
Open Slot
Meldor (out until Jan 5 / 6) (currently playing) ?
Grimjack (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

I can take it tonight or tomorrow if no one else feel pity upon this poor slow game.

Grimjack

I can take it tonight or tomorrow if no one else feel pity upon this poor slow game.

Grimjack

Originally posted by Grimjack
I can take it tonight or tomorrow if no one else feel pity upon this poor slow game.

Grimjack

Go ahead and take a turn. I will slot Meldor behind you and hope he gets back.

However, I **Will not** take it next. I don't want a 2 player game - period.

Does anyone want the open slot?

I have it. Lets hope we get some brave lurker to take it after me in case Meldor does not come forth.

Grimjack

I have looked at the save, and made an investigation of Jerusalem. This will be extremely bloody.
They have 8 vet swiss, 10 reg swiss, 1 vet sword, 1 assassin, 1 king and one catapult in that city.
I do not know how many knights it takes to kill a swiss in a size 8 city ( which it will be. ) but I will aim for 16 knights for the vets, and 16 knights for the regulars, and finally 8 knights for the rabble. ( Given they will produce and keep as garrison 4 more assassins. )

If you have experience in fighting knights against swiss, please correct me if I am wrong, as I am likely to check in again before my turns are completely done.

Grimjack

Hopefully a lurker can answer. We are nowhere close to those numbers. I only had 6 to 7 galleys (carry 4 this scenario) filled. Of those units quite a few where simply catapults. Your ten should simple be to keep rushing ships, and keep filling them up. We are not ready.

-------------------------------

Lets hope we get some brave lurker to take it after me in case Meldor does not come forth.

I hope Meldor shows up. So far no lurker luck. I want the plate 100% clear before I open a new LK game.

LK58. The buildup for war.

I start by doing an investigation of Jerusalem. I am fairly certain our 16 knights will not terribly impress the 18 swiss pike stationed here.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Jerusalem_1233.jpg

They have 8 vet swiss, 10 reg swiss, 1 vet sword, 1 assassin, 1 king and one catapult in that city.
I do not know how many knights it takes to kill a swiss in a size 8 city ( which it will be. ) but I will aim for 16 knights for the vets, and 16 knights for the regulars, and finally 8 knights for the rabble. ( Given they will produce and keep as garrison 4 more assassins. )

I am amazed at the poorness of almost every single AI. They stink at getting an income. I can shake out 6 gpt and 12 gold out of POland for our spare wines though. Another 6 gpt and 20 gold for our wool.
I switch Metz and Chartres from pike to Longbow. The Longbows will be the lightningrods for the assassins, hopefully sdaving our more valuable knights. Also, who knows, maybe one or two will survive to attack. Having attack of 6 is not insignificant.

IBT: Fatimids and Abbasids ally against the Magyar, Germans start Magna Carta, English statr Hanseatic league,

1236 Cool, we haev a spy. I will send him in to spy on how the Burgundians survive the germans.

IBT: Celts want an alliance against Burgundy, but I will not be distracted.

1239 Move our settler into position where a burgundy city was razed. Prime land, and I can use the extra troop support.
Get a worker out of Burgundy for Theologu. If he survives another 20 turns. he can have it back :)
Send Intelligence Operations at special price to bulgars for 13 gpt and 25 gold. ( It is one half rushed knight in 10 turns :) )

IBT: Bulgars and Burgundy sign peace. Germany manages to get a leader in the battle for Burgundys capitol.

1242 Found Amiens.

IBT: Sweden and POland sign peace. England and Abbasids ally against Byzantines, Byzantine demands maps and 24 gold. I give it to her. I refuse to be distracted.

1245 Move scientist to ANgers, as they still need some happiness even after Cathedral. Get an evil 28 spt. Will have to see if I can massage neighbours for an extra shield or two.
Abbasids have monopoly on Milling. Thats a tech that could be useful. SOme other time perhaps. I refuse to get distracted.

IBT: Cordova and Germany ally against Magyars. We complete Intelligence agency. We lose our furs. I would want those back, since we will have happines problems without them.

1248: Furs are much cheaper from Sweden than silks from Byzantines, so the 'IN' thing to wear is fur coats this year. ( 28 or 32 gpt. )

IBT: Bulgars and Abbasids ally against Magyars, Germany finally destroyes the Burgundians. There likely will be a rush of settlers towards the shoe of Italy, since it just became available.

1251 I prepare Angers for a small food deficit, and 35 spt for knights in two. Alternative to food deficit is to get a lux more, or increase lux tax, or build a colosseum. I would rather run with a one food deficit.

IBT: Celts and bulgars sign against Poland,

1254 More rushings. Send Wines to England for 5 gpt + 10.

IBT: Cordova and Celts sign alliance against POland,

1257: bah, discovered Nantes did not have a barracks, and I built a longbow. I will use this longbow as MP then. Nantes would have needed an MP after a few more turns anyway.
We have a bunch of Poles travelling our countryside. I ksuspect they are after the celtish town. If they ever reach that place, it might be a godd idea to have a settler ready in case they raze.

IBT: Kievan Rus and Abbasids ally against the turks. Their days are surely counted.

1260 Fleet is starting to look good now. We have 12 galleys full of troops. Buying Professional Armies tech from Turks is tempting, but I will rush a few more galleys first. Next player could hopefully buy it for gpt, as turks are not likely to survive long when the russian hordes comes.

IBT: Fatimids and Turks sign peace,

1263: I have rushed a lot of galleys and a few knights. ( The knights before I noticed I could fill the galleys as fast as I could rush them. )

Our situation as regards troops are that we need two more galleys for the army and treasure carriers. ( Do not forget them !!!) The treasure carriers are underneath the army.
We have 13 galleys, with one more coming online next turn. On them there are 3 pikemen, 9 catapults, 4 longbowmen and 32 knights. I suspect we could be ready for sailing in three more turns, given you continue rushing galleys.
With travelling time, I am fairly certain I will not get the game again unless it for some inexplicable reason becomes a two player SG. Shame on the players if no one steps forth and takes the open spot.

I did not spend much time and effort looking for 2fers or the like, since if we can get 40 knights next to Jerusalem, we have most likely won the game. In case you are not 100% sure you are among the most skillful in battling cities, do read Charis pointers on city combat in RBC5. SOUnd advice with one exception. This attack should not be called off, as it will take quite a lot of turns to amass a new army.
Do use the cats and army to pick apart the Swiss mercs who wins their first combat to make as sure as possible they willö not survive to get autopromoted.

Grimjack.

Reigns of power (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58_1263AD.zip)

I would go with the RNG totally screws us over and add even more troops! 3 turns to sail? I think we need more then that. Failure to take Jerusalem probably cost us the game.



LKendter
Grimjack
Meldor (out until Jan 5 / 6) (currently playing) ?
Overdue to show up!
Open Slot (on deck)


Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over

Good military growth turns there!
It's not a matter of shame (not volunteering), more of a matter of stressed time. (as in having no free time!) I would really like to help out, and still may if I get a bad case of insomnia in the middle of the night.

Due to the bad weather up here I won't have my household goods until the 8th and it might delay getting home access up. As of right now I am still not able to play (the cd is on the truck, somewhere). I will keep you informed.

I downloaded the file and tried to play the game, but unfortunately my PC is protesting. It all reminded me too much of K8 (Monster Map). That will be fixed within three weeks (I'll have a better PC then), but right now I can't jump in and help you out.

I've been following this scenario for a while, and if you still need someone to jump in, count this as a "got it", but I won't play until tonight. Looks like I will concentrate on getting our knights up to 40 and loading them on ships, probably set sail toward the end of my turns, but it looks like a 13-turn voyage, so someone else will get the honor of attacking Jerusalem! Quick question, if LK or someone else can answer, has this been patched to 1.12? I will play it either way, (I haven't patched my copy on my wife's computer yet!).

The game has been patched to 1.12.

Go ahead and take 10. I would cash rush another 10 galleys (2 alternating cities building them), get the armies and goodie carrying knights on board. After 10 I would take in again. I would probably launch during my turn.

There is plenty of time. Better to have a few knights to much than a few to few. I still think it might be a good idea to have a few longbows to eat the first few counters from the assassins. Both longbow and knights are unlikely to survive an attack, but longbows are half price.

And just in case they would survive, they have an edge in their strength 6 attack, could make a difference on a stubborn defender.

Grimjack

Obviously, the focus was continued buildup of troops and ships for the Crusade to Jerusalem. After re-reading some of the discussions, I focused on Knights and Longbows, depending on the production of the cities. I also cranked out more catapults, to help whittle some of the defenders down and/or weaken any who win a round, so they are easier to kill before they promote. I also included some Inquisitors, so we can see the assassins, and in case they draw their attacks (I don’t know if the AI is programmed to go after them or not, but it seemed worth a shot, and they are cheap for a 4 attack). I didn’t waste much time on Pikemen, since I expect most of his attacks to be with Assassins, who can chose their target.

A related note, I don’t know if the AI will select the relic-carriers, but it shouldn’t matter, as long as other units are there to pick them back up. However, I would make sure that their galley is well covered, as if the ship sinks, I think we lose the relics for good. I purposely put them on a regular galley, so it should be the last defender in a stack if we somehow get into a war on the journey. I have renamed all the galleys, to make it easier to identify what is loaded on each one (Knight Galley, Relic Galley, etc.).

1263 (0) Renamed ships, transferred loads so each ship carries one type of unit if possible. Load the relic-carriers and the army. Switch Orleans, Chatres to Longbow, Clermont and Boulougne to Inquisitor. I also check around on tech, there are four available: Education, Mercantilism, Professional Armies, and Milling. Only Prof. Army helps us at this point (Swiss Mercs) but it would cost us 85+gpt, which would take our galley rushing money away, so I don’t do it. I would like Advanced Siege, but no one has it yet, and we are 26 turns away.
IBT Settlers move toward Italy, Poles attack and kill a Celt settler. I am a little confused by some movements, until I realize that Castile and Poland look very much alike!

1266 (1) Paris Knight-Knight, Anger Kn-Kn, Marsailles Galley-Gal, our second Iron source is exhausted! (Looks like we are OK, didn’t have any deals with it). A bunch of worker moves, and rush a Galley in Avignon.
IBT Castile and Turks sign peace. Fatamid and Abbasid sign an MA against Byzantine. Our Dye deal comes up for renewal, the price goes up from 29 to 30gpt.

1269 (2) Orleans Longbow-LB, Bordeaux Knight-LB, Boulougne Inq-Inq, Cleremont Inq-Inq, Metz LB-LB, Lyons Kn-LB, Chatres LB-LB, Avignon Galley-Gal. Abbasids start Hanseatic League. Load more ships. Rush galley in Marsailles, more worker moves.
IBT Abbasids go on an alliance spree, buying Poland, Bulgars, and Castile into MA against Byzantine.

1272 (3) Paris Kn-Kn, Anger Kn-Kn, Ghent Pike-Cat, Mars Gal-Gal, Strasburg Settler-Set, Amiens Wall-Temple, Antwerp Pike-Cat, Rheims Pike-Cat. Hurry Galley at Avignon, move settler from Strasburg 3 NW (toward the ruins).
IBT Germany + Bulgar ally vs. Byz, Cordova & Magyar make peace, Denmark and Abbasids MA vs. Turks, Cordova + Abbasids MA vs. Byz (Dogpile, better Theodora than us).

1275 (4) Orleans LB-LB, Bord. LB-Cat, Boulougne Inq-Manor, Cleremont Inq-Inq, Lyons LB-Cat, Chatres Civil Disorder (sorry), Avignon Galley-Gal. Germans complete Magna Carta (FP+Town hall in every city!) in Naumburg. This time I hurry in Ampurias, which is cheaper, since it has put some shields into it.
IBT Quiet.

1278 (5) Paris Kn-Kn, Ghent Cat-Cat, Anger Kn-Kn, Bord. Cat-Cat, Amp. Gal-Gal, Basel Pike-Pk, Lyons Cat-Cat, Tours Pike-Pike. Build Cherbourg (Temple) between ruins, hurry galley at Marsailles.
IBT Poland offers WM for WM+16, but I am running short on cash anyway, I see he needs horses or quarry, I sell quarry for his 110g and WM, and include an ROP (so he can hopefully get to the Celts sooner). I don’t quite make enough to rush a galley per turn, so this will help get me through the next few turns.

1281 (6) Orleans LB-LB, Bord. Cat-Cat, Cleremont Inq-Inq, Lyons Cat-Cat, Rheims Cat-Cat, Chatres LB-Kn, Marsailles Galley-Gal. Hurry at Avignon.
IBT Bulgars and Poles make peace.

1284 (7) Nantes Kn-Kn, Paris Kn-Kn, Ghent Cat-Cat, Bord. Cat-Cat, Angers Kn-Kn, Metz LB-LB, Lyons Cat-Cat, Avignon Gal-Gal. I am still building cats, that wont make the ships, to put at our borders, we should be able to get Trebuchets soon, so we can upgrade (I have been checking tech each turn, but no one has it yet). The same for Pikes and Knights that won’t make the ships, I want to leave a solid military behind in case we get sneak attacked. Rush at Marsailles this time.
IBT Poles get another Celt settler, Magyar and Danes make peace.

1287 (8) Orleans LB-LB, Bord. Cat-Harbor, Lyons Cat-Pike, Antwerp Cat-Cat, Marsailles Galley-Gal. Abbasids start Hanseatic League (Again?). Hurry at Avignon.
IBT Bulgars make peace with Turks and Magyars.

1290 (9) Valencia Barracks-Town Hall (Not sure if it will help here). Paris Kn-Kn, Ghent Cat-Cat, Angers Kn-Kn, Rheims Cat-Cat, Avignon Gal-Gal. Hurry at Ampurious (running low on money again, unit support is hitting us hard).
IBT Castile finally takes the city of Cordova (been attacking for 5-6 turns). Cordova them promptly allies with the Abbasids vs. the Turks?

1293 (10) Orleans LB-LB, Bord. Harbor-Pike, Ampurius Gal-Gal, Basel Pike-Pike, Lyons Pike-Sheriffs. I moved a few units to fill up ships, two galleys have moved for the turn, everything else is waiting for the next leader. Our armada is set, just off the coast of Avignon. We have 11 Knight Galleys (44 Knights), 4 Longbow Galleys (16 Longbow), 4 Catapult Galleys (16 Catapult), one Pike Galley (4 Pike), one Inquisitor Galley (4 Inquisitor), an Army Galley (the Knight Army), and our Relic Galley (2 Knights w/ Relics and 2 Inquisitors). The journey to Jerusalem is 11 turns, (although as I said, two ships have already moved this turn, so I would wait until next turn to set sail).

The 4 techs are still out there, we have 123g +96gpt, so we could probably buy one and turn it into a 2fer or maybe a 3fer deal, but it would take most of our income. We still have 16 turns on Siegecraft (trebuchets) with our scientist, but no one else has it yet. WE do have a settler due in 2, I was thinking he could go south to settle in Italy W of Amiens, or save him if the Poles ever do take the Celt city out. Otherwise, I have more or less ignored infrastructure, so it may be time to switch off of all the unit production and get more buildings, at least to stop adding to our unit support costs. Good luck to the armada, I look forward to following the progress of our Crusade! :hammer:


The Armada (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58_1293AD.zip)

NOw that is one crusade to write home about.

My apologies for the mess on the ships.

Grimjack

Ever thought of bringing a Settler to the Holy Land, to have a fallback if the initial attack fails?
And thus you'd only have to disembark a stack of defensive units first, while the important ones are save on the ships (ships are save in this Scenario, since only the Dromon and the Barb vessels are flagged as 'Naval Power', and I guess Byz won't ally against you) and can unload next turn.

I see it - I will play tonight or tomorrow night.

@Doc,

I thought about loading a settler, but I saw a problem with it. First, it would have to be built 2 tiles away, and Jerusalem would obviously have the superior culture, so the attack units that landed there would have to take an extra turn to move up, then attack. Knights could attack the same turn they landed, (after the city is built) but not the Longbows, and also not the catapults. That gives him more time to bring in reinforcements and/or counterattacks. Otherwise, you would have to land the catapults and slow units adjacent to Jerusalem, but then that means 2 stacks to defend. It could still be done, I guess, as there is a settler in Strasburg due in 2 turns, if LKendter decides otherwise. Another fallback option would be to build Byzantine (Battlefield) Medicine, I think Paris can complete it in 15 turns, which would give us healing in enemy territory. However, I think if this first assault doesn't take it, it will be too late to wait and heal, he will be able to reinforce far faster than we will!

I am in from the cold...let me know when you want me to pick up a turn...

With utter disgust I report this turn

1293 AD (pre-turn)
Have to complete this turn, but mostly worker actions.
The Byzantines have 26,460 vp - :eek:
I have no choice but to sail this turn and pray it is enough.

It is under priced, but I sell Castile Religious Persecution for $73, wm and $8/turn. This lets us rush the final galley.
(I) The Celts and Magyar sign peace.
Cordova establishes and embassy with us.


1296 AD
Do or die time begins, and the fleet sets sail. If that assault fails, we lost as Byzantine will break 30,000 vp before we can mount another force.
(I) Byzantine and Cordova sign peace.
Bulgars and England sign peace.
Kievan Rus and Abbasids ally vs. Byzantine.
Sweden and Abbasis ally vs. Byzantine.
Poland and Kievan Russ ally vs. Magyars.
The Magyars have been eliminated by Germany.


1299 AD
(I) The Byzantine complete Hanseatic League - Colossus and Smith's.


1305 AD
Bulgars and Cordova ally vs. Poland.
Castile and Cordova sign peace.

1308 AD
Our fleet passes by Sicily. However with Byzantines up to 29, 035 it is too little, too late.
(I) Byzantines and England sign peace.
England and Abbasids ally vs. Turks.
The Turks are destroyed by Kievan Rus.

1311 AD
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LAK-368.jpg



Summary:
We are frelled - we waited to long to sail. I have no idea the Byzantine were this strong.
I record the 2nd loss for the LK series. :cry:

Wow.... I never thought to check the VP totals, I wonder how they went up so fast, that's averaging nearly 1,000 VP/turn!! Where did that come from? From the sound of things, they were the target of a dogpile, but they must have been able to kill everything coming at them.

We vill have revenge. Someday somehow the Abbasids will pay for holding the holy city of Jerusalem hostage.

I suspect they got very well rewarded by the double gpt in the beginning, as they were techleaders. Tihs let them research tech and build wonders to amass VPs.
Their heavy combat orientation in the end game sealed our fate.

Grimjack, who is willing to have a rematch.

:( :( :(

I just finished this with Germany (Demigod, but 1.13), and the situation was pretty much the same - Byzantium had about 26000VP when I finally managed to get a Mediterranean Port, then I had to eliminate the Bulgars only to deny Theo the VPs, and when I finally returned the Splinter (Jerusalem was raised earlier, but I brought enough units just in case), Byzantium had passed the 29000. Darn close, but I guess the superior speed of my Galleys with the Viking Sagas saved me.

I dare to advertise this here:
Reconquista! (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=75073)

I feel for you guys! :(

This is a tough, challenging scenario. As others have mentioned, the GPT bug, FP problems, and lack of tech brokering due to the separate tech trees makes this Conquest tougher than the difficulty selected, IMO.

I must confess that in my solo victory on this one at Emporer level with the Germans, I caught many lucky breaks and was able to research a couple of the "other" tech trees. This was quite fun, but I think you guys did not have the luxury to do that. Yes, the Viking Saga really helps in the final sailing of the invasion fleet, but more importantly the ability to build Blacksmiths (Viking tree) early in the process really helped out everything else for me.