On November 22nd, 1963, the President of the United States, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, was assassinated during a motorcade in Dallas, Texas.

Officialy, a "lone gunman" named Lee Harvey Oswald fired from 5th story window of The Texas School Book Depository, killing the President. Some Americans believe this is not the truth, that there was more than one shooter.

An even greater majority of Americans disagree with The Warren Commision findings and believe a conspiracy existed. That Oswald was paid or supported by other iterests. These "others" include (but not limited to) Fidel Castro, organized crime and even the CIA!

I hope to include other "conspiracies" such as Roswell, New Mexico, the supposed "cover-up" of a UFO crash site by the US government, in this thread. And maybe hear of from our friends in other countries about intrigues from around the world.

I am reserving my own opinion about the JFK assassination for now, I believe it was a stand alone job. But I have to admit, there is alot of mystique surrounding the entire incident.

Especialy with one Mr. Jack Ruby.

Why would a club owner decide to shoot a man who most certainly would have been convicted in a state with the death penalty???

Ruby was promptly convicted of murder and given a sentence of death - but the whole thing was overturned because of something the judge did wrong. Ruby did die in prison though.

Why Ruby shot Oswald is a mystery though he did indicate once that he was 'framed into doing it'. I think an even bigger mystery is the fact that Ruby was present at a police press conference and knew a bit of information about Oswald that he probably shouldn't have known:

At the press conference one of the police officers stated that Oswald was a member of a certain political group related to Cuba. The name of the organization the officer used escapes me but he named an anti-Castro organization. Ruby corrected the statement saying that Oswald was a member of the Fair Play for Cuba organization (a pro-Castro group) which was true. How Ruby (the nightclub owner) knew this about Oswald, knew the difference between the various political groups concerning Cuba or even what Ruby was doing at police headquarters in the midst of an official press conference is not known for sure. But it does seem a bit odd, doesn't it?

BTW, the sniper's nest was on the sixth floor of the depository, not the fifth floor. There were two depository employees eating lunch and watching the motorcade from the fifth floor at the time of the shooting. It is quite possible that Oswald was on the second floor of the building when Kennedy was shot.

Thank you for correcting me. I suffer from American History-itis, the condition many of my countrymen have which makes us forget key details about important events of the past.;) :D

I was in that building in 1997 while visiting friends in Dallas. It is a museum of sorts now, and a damn good one too. Even the curators point out that alot of things dont make sense in the JFK story.

Btw, donsig, this thread was in your honor. You gave me the idea in the Viet Nam thread. So this is for you, ya "conspirator". ;)

I thought I had inspired this thread. I almost brought this subject up in the Korean War thread (the forgotten war). I've been on a Kennedy kick for a couple months now. Read at least a half dozen books about the assassination during this period. Most of the books point out the defects in the Warren Commission's theory and point out all kinds of weird goings on but none of them really come up with a counter theory.:confused:

I lived in Ft. Worth for a year back in the early 70s and remember going to see Executive Action, a movie about the assassination based on the idea that the CIA did in Kennedy. That convinced me but then years later I read another book that convinced me there was no conspiracy. (Can't remember what it is now.) Of course the movie JFK brought me back to the conspiracy side. I now work in a library and one day an assassination book caught my eye and now I have about two shelves worth of books checked out...

Trouble is many of the books are tremendously biased one way or another. Most of what is written must be taken with a grain of salt. The lack of some evidence is disturbing. The Dallas police had Oswald for two days but there is very little about what went on in the interrogations. You'd think they'd be recording what the suspect said!

I think Kennedy's killing was a political thing. I think some anti-Castro and CIA connected people had in mind to kill Kennedy as did certain organized crime figures. Since these people were working together on various things concerning Cuba there were enough people pissed off enough to actually seriously talk about doing it. The Cuba/CIA people were probably the driving force, financing the thing with money from right wing oil men and getting the willing mafia people to bring in top hit men from overseas. I think the FBI got wind of it but since Hoover hated the Kennedy's nothing was done by the FBI to prevent it. LBJ may not have originated the idea but he certainly moved quickly to ensure that Oswald was tagged the lone gunman no matter what the truth actually was. He may also have known ahead of time what was going down. LBJ and Hoover were buddies and if Hoover got wind of the plot he may have passed the info on to LBJ. Because JFK was killed LBJ got promoted and Hoover got to keep his job. That's the general idea I get from what I've read so far.

Right now I'm into a huge book called With Malice and it is about the shooting of Officer Tippit an hour or so after Kennedy was shot. The Tippit shooting has been called the Rosetta Stone of the Kennedy assassination. With Malice's premise is that Oswald did shoot Tippit, though I'm not sure if the author also beleives Oswald shot Kennedy.

If Starlifter ever shows his mug around here again, he will have lots to say (big surprise;) ) on the subject. Speaking of which, I havent heard him around lately, wonder what hes up to...

About Kennedys enemies in the US:

That is some disturbing stuff, and not unbelievable either.

I have also heard some interesting things about Fidel, how he is inclined to be extremely vengeful. However, if the assassination was backed by a foriegn power, and there was a link, the US could have used it as an excuse to invade Cuba, and would have done so. I regard Castro as an unlikely suspect.

As much as I dont like LBJ, I tend to think he would not have been a party to that. Hoover, on the other hand, could be. He was a twisted bastard.

I still have a base feeling that it was just one nut. There seems to be a lot of weird side issues, but nothing that incriminates anybody else directly. No links to Oswald.

Ruby had mafia connections, which seems mysterious, but again, if he killed Oswald for the mafia (to silence him) thats a huge thing to swallow. Kill a guy and go to jail forever. Or be executed. Cant pay someone, if they cant spend it. Ruby knew he would be caught, so I think his motives were personal, maybe crazy.

Or, someone used his madness to their advantage, but thats stretching for it. I think its too silly to think Ruby would martyr himself for the mob.

I dont know, Im going to bed.

I think it was the dirty commie basturds that killed kennedy.......
i forgot what it was but it was a picture taken when kennedy was shot that shows the silouhette of a man with a gun blast on the other side of the road of kennedy's car....maybe a second gunman?,,...

I remember hearing something about this, but I don't remember where. What I remember is that if the bullet trajectory was traced, following the wound to Kennedy, the hole in the seat, etc. then for Oswald to have been the only shooter the bullet would have had to completely change direction on several occasions, making over 90 degree turns on its own.

Ruby said once that he was 'framed into' killing Oswald. It is quite possible that Ruby was presented with a choice of killing Oswald and going to jail or being killed himself. If there was a group of people who murdered the President they would not think twice about quietly bumping off someone like Ruby. Rby had grown up in Chicago during the time of Al Capone and certainly had connections with organized crime so if he was threatened he would have taken the threat seriously and knew he couldn't hide. It's possible a deal was made to ensure Ruby he would not be executed for killing Oswald. This could have been accomplished by a little bribery here and there. Ruby did get the death penalty but that was quickly overturned because of something the judge did wrong in that trial. Ruby was a logical choice to do the job. He was not all that important to organized crime and he was familiar with the police station and many people on the police force. Since Ruby was 'in' with the police he had a couple opportunities to get at Oswald.

I doubt that killing Oswald in the police station was part of a an original plan. If Oswald was set up to take the fall the idea probably was to kill him while he was being arrested but something went amiss. So Ruby was pressed into service to silence Oswald.

That could explain Ruby's role but still leaves much to be explained.:confused:

Castro may have been vengeful but he wasn't stupid - he is after all still in charge of Cuba and that is a testament to this. If Cuba or the communists had been tied to Kennedy's killing then certainly the US would have invaded Cuba. Some theorize that some people connected with the CIA and anti-Castro Cubans were in on the assassination in an attempt to frame Castro and start such a war. In fact Kennedy and Castro had been feeling each other out in search of normalizing relations. Kennedy was looking towards world peace while Castro wanted to lessen Cuba's groing dependence on the Soviet Union.

In any event I think LBJ and others used the Castro angle to help cover up the truth. Linking a communist conspiracy to JFK's death would result in war with Cuba which would result in war with the Soviet Union, i.e. WW III. To prevent this the Warren Commision had to conclude that Oswald acted alone. I think LBJ used this argument on Chief Justice Warren and others to cover the truth.

I do not think LBJ was such a great guy. I think he was certainly capable of complicity in the coup. One reason he had for pushing the line nut theory is that killing the president was not a federal crime in 1963 - unless it involved more than one person (a conspiracy by definition). If a conspiracy had been established it would have been a federal crime under the jurisdiction of the Attorney General - RFK. Even with LBJ being President and trying to cover things up RFK would have been able to do much to get at the truth. By maintaining that Oswald acted alone it was a Texas crime. Remember that Johnson was a Texan with a bit a power in the state and was buddy buddy with Connally. Add being President and hais relationship with Hoover and LBJ could easily have evidence destroyed. I think he did this and that is part of the reason no solid answers have been forthcoming in the last 40 years.

i forgot what it was but it was a picture taken when kennedy was shot that shows the silouhette of a man with a gun blast on the other side of the road of kennedy's car....maybe a second gunman?,,...

There is such a picture but it is difficult to see what is in the picture. Is it a silouhette of a man or just shadows?

Better evidence that something was going on there are the reports of the witnesses at the time of the shooting. Many of the 'ear witnesses' (including police officers) thought the shots came from that area. There were also reports of a Secret Service man in that area prior to the shooting. This Secret Service man kept people out of the area behind the fence (where a second gunman may have been). The Secret Service maintains that it had no agents in that area.

I remember hearing something about this, but I don't remember where. What I remember is that if the bullet trajectory was traced, following the wound to Kennedy, the hole in the seat, etc. then for Oswald to have been the only shooter the bullet would have had to completely change direction on several occasions, making over 90 degree turns on its own.

Trouble is that LBJ had the limo fixed up right away destroying any evidence that could be gotten from the limo. I think I read that the limo's windshield had been damaged by a bullet and a street sign had also been hit. They say the windshield and street sign were replaced. The reason for doing this would have been to cast doubt on the actual number of shots fired. Oswald would have had time to fire only three shots and only three shell casings were found on the depository's sixth floor. If the evidence had shown that more than three shots were fired the conclusion would have been that there was a second gunman. A second gunman meant a conspiracy by definition. A conspiracy meant a federal crime which would have allowed RFK (as attorney general) to head the investigation. Since RFK had been designated by his brother to oversee the CIA a whole pandora's box would have been opened...

Perhaps I can help, our history classes have been about J.F.K.'s death.

A photo was found of Oswald holding a gun and pro-communist propaganda. The trouble with this photo is

a) Why would someone leave such evidence behind?
b) The shadow of the man stretches into the upper left side of where he is standing. However, a shadow is found underneth his chin. If the man had that shadow, the Sun would have had to have been above him. Yet for his shadow to slant behind him, the sun would have to have been facing him.................
I think that was a set-up, done on a film stage or something with Oswell's head implanted on it.

Jack Ruby was already terminally ill at the time Oswell (who always said he was a patsy) was shot, and is believed to have thought he was going to die sooner than he expected.......

From the book depository site, six marksmen tried to recreate the perfect third shot from Oswald that killed Kennedy. All failed and Oswald, though he spent a little time in the army, was no where near as good as these people were. Coincidence...........

The number of witnesses that died in 'mysterious circumstances'

The fact a man was reputed to having a heart attack before the shotting and then mysteriuosly disappeared.

A picture of a man looking like Oswald in the picture of the first shotting of Keneddy.

The fact that the bullets went in such rapid sucession with the rifle that was used.(tried by the marksmen, who never re-loaded that fast)

The 'magic bullet' that passed through Keneddy's throat, bounced inside, took a few diagonal turns, entered the Texan minister in the front through the back who then cried out 'they're going to kill us', which then U-turned into his wrist and the his foot and appeared undamaged.

THE SIGHTINGS OF TWO MEN HIDDEN BEHIND A GRASSY KNOLL, RUNNING OF AFTER THE SHOOTINGS. A police inspector went up there to search and met a F.B.I. member who flashed his badge and said he saw nothing. The man has still not been identified.....

There was suspected to have been six bullets fired at him (to do all that damage)

Just for those really looking for conspiracies in everything, why did Jackie jump onto the back of the car, marry so soon after Kennedy's death, and the mysterious death of Maryln Monrole, JFK'S, his brothers, and another Keneddy's (the cousin?) lover.

I'll try and list more later OK.;)

We are through the looking glass here people.....



;)

Read Gerald Posner's book "Case Closed" where he convincingly debunks all the conspiratory "theories" and makes the case that Oswald had the motivation and the ability to do it on his own. I've read a bunch of the other books that are out there, including the one that carefull examines the pathological evidence and morgue photos....I think the author was Litton (?).

The only opinion I can say is that we still don't know conclusively who did it, or whether there was a conspiracy. And I suspect we'll never know. I do think Oswald was involved and could have been the shooter. My other gut feeling, is that secrets are never kept. If there was more to it than just Oswald, there would be evidence or some type of "deathbed" confession. There's no such thing as the perfect crime.

rgds
will

If its a perfect crime, how on earth do you know about it?

The perfect crime is a crime that no-one knows is a crime. So you cannot prove if one exists or does not exist!

The Americans never walked on moon in 1969...The tricked pictures of the NASA...the US were not even able to send a man in space few years (2-3 years??? dont remember the date of the first Apollo fire) before 1969

Originally posted by Le Petit Prince
The Americans never walked on moon in 1969...The tricked pictures of the NASA...the US were not even able to send a man in space few years (2-3 years??? dont remember the date of the first Apollo fire) before 1969
This conspiracy has been pretty well debunked. I have yet to see any 'proof' that we staged the landing that HASNT be critisised elsewhere. For me, the biggest bit of proof is

A: That no one ELSE, country wise, has spoken up to call us our moon landing a hoax. Make no bones about it, the US and the USSR were in a race there. Dont you think that if we hoaxed it, the Soviets would have been the FIRST country to call the bluff? We left the bottom half of the lander their, for crying out loud. With a good enough telescope you could probably catch the light glinting off it.

B: We supposedly spend millions of dollars staging a faked landing...and release a flawed product? People who are brilliant enough to stage this incredibly realistic photoshoot arent going to look over things and make sure it IS perfect and doesnt have all these 'flaws' in it? If they could use all this money to make this faked footage, why didnt they make it RIGHT? They could have scrubbed the mission for any number of reasons, but didnt.

I hope to be alive still when the documents surrounding the Kennedy Assassination are released :) I wonder if they nicely tidied up those to provide another history :confused:

I am convinced the Americans landed on the Moon...on the other hand I do think from what I have heard that it is with reason that conspiracy is suspected with Oswald. His assassination was awfully convinent...

April 4, 1968 Martin Luthur King is slain.

Robert Francis Kennedy was slain on June 5, 1968 at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, California shortly after claiming victory in that state's crucial Democratic primary

President Kennedy was slain on November 22, 1963.

A short time period, an awful lot of prominent killings of very popular men who I believe don't really fit the Republican way of seeing things...Kennedy blocked Nixon getting as President and he and his supporters were certainly "dirty tricks" men even when working for Eisenhower to be President...I wouldn't be surprised if he had a role to play.

If the Kennedy assassination and Moon landing were faked, I'd be happy and seriously pissed.

I'd be happy that the government could actually operate as efficiently as it should be.

But I'd be mad because they squandered so many trillions of dollars of MY money :mad:

Oswald was framed or he did shoot, he's definitely something to do with murder
Oswald went to the USSR in his own choice, so possible soviet link there.

HOWEVER
Oswalds gun could not shoot fast, he would had to take the cartridge out place the other bullet in then shoot. The two shots were virtually simulataneous and if you look closely at the film he looks like he was shot from two different directions, his head bounces back.
Also, supposed authentic x-rays show to holes with different gradients. I think it was in the Fortean Times where I saw it.
I remember seeing a programme with Sean Connery called "The Grassy Knowle" they came to the conclusion that one of the bullets did come from Oswald and the other came from place near the grassy knowle though not actually on it
There was flash seen coming from the Grassy Knowle by eye witnesses. Supposedly those who spoke of the flash, quickly retracted there eyewitness accounts or disappeared.
Oswald didn't move or hide his gun and he had communist propaganda on him, if wasn't cynical, i would conclude he was a stupid communist. But seeing there is no such thing as a stupid communist, i would tend to think he was the governments fool.

Whoever shot JFK, Oswald wasn't alone.

Has anyone heard about the conspiracy behind Colombine murders? I heard people were told by the government to shutup about the other murderers.

Anyone ever hear of the theory of the 4 Jacks? Jack Kennedy, Jack Ruby, Jack Weber and some other guy named Jack? I heard a story about that once but I can't find anything about it now....Any help?

7 year old thread... :lol:

Pls don't resurrect old, ancient threads. ;)