View Full Version : Galleons and Frigates/Galleons take first hit


Fanny Brice
Dec 06, 2003, 03:22 PM
Problem: AI travels with stack of 3 Frigates and 1Galleon. Often Galleon will be on top of stack and as a result be the first ship attacked in combat. This is happening so frequently in the current epic game I am playing I am hoping others have witnessed this as well.

Expected behavior: Frigate escorts should be primary ships to take on attackers.

These are "fresh" stacks that have not taken any damage yet. This does not happen everytime. But happens very frequently. I'm guessing that since both ships have a defense of 2, that the AI is not favoring the frigates to be the first ships in combat.


Please let me know if this is common. If not, I will submit saved game.

Chieftess
Dec 06, 2003, 07:14 PM
Do you have a screenshot or gamesave?

CyberChrist
Dec 06, 2003, 08:20 PM
Are the Galleons in question Veterans/Elites and the Frigates Regulars/Veterans?

Fanny Brice
Dec 08, 2003, 08:15 AM
I saved a few turns with this encounter. I'll post in a day or two (writting "at work").

All ships in question are veteran.

Fanny Brice
Dec 08, 2003, 06:50 PM
ok -- here are the saved turns.

Spent a little time reviewing them tonight. Here's what I think is going on...

Stack of 3 frigates (in most cases) escorting 1 galleon. When traveling under normal circumstances, frigates are on top. On top during the movement and on top of the stack at turn end.

On the turn when the galleons disembark their transported units, the galleon moves to the top of the stack and stays there.

Details of saved turns:

1892 -- Saved where Ottoman galleon disembarked Sipahi near Citra. You can see Galleon on top.

1900 -- much better example. Action near bottom of map near Babylonian island home and small Roman islands. Dutch are at war with Babylon. The stack of Dutch frigates and galleon unloaded rifleman near Eulabar the turn before. (Call this "STACK 1). If you move the gallant Celt ships you will find another stack of Dutch ships just above the Roman island of Carthago Novo (CN). (Call this STACK 2 & 3... AI is moving this as two stacks.)

Stack one will move off toward it's homeland by way of CN. You will see after 2 or 3 turns, that the galleon remains on top.

Stack 2 and 3 move toward Shuruppack. The frigates are on top for this move. After the galleons of these stacks disembark their units, the galleons move to the top of the stack as they head for home waters.

Observer the ships for a turn or two and then attack the stacks. A frigate will give you a bombardment shot and then the galleon will be the first ship of the stack to be in full combat.

(Sorry, this is a huge map. Just fortify the units in action... not too many... the turns won't take more than a minute or two.)

GalleonOnTop1900AD.SAV (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/GalleonOnTop1900AD.SAV)

GalleonOnTop1892AD.SAV (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/GalleonOnTop1892AD.SAV)

Catt
Dec 08, 2003, 09:29 PM
Haven't downloaded the saves, but I think I've noticed the same thing -- it seems to happen after the escorted galleon unloads its units -- suddenly, the Galleon takes the top position for some reason. I don't have a save (as you do), but thought I'd chime in that I do believe I've seen this too.

Isak
Jan 14, 2004, 06:11 PM
Checked out the 1900 savegame, and you're right, suddenly the Galleons are defending the entire stack. Weird :scan:

Commander Bello
Jan 16, 2004, 08:28 PM
Not weird, just normal, as I see it. The Galleons are the ones who have taken the last action. So they are determining the whole stack.

Thanks to the "$"Q""!-decision, to give Galleons and Frigates the same combat statistics (as defense is regarded) there is no way for the AI to bring the Frigate on top again.

The only way should be to modify the combat stats of the naval units to more senseful settings.
This would be nice anyway, since the Byzantine Dromon proves constantly to be the better warship in comparison with the Frigate.... Any questions?