View Full Version : 'Prehistoric man began global warming'


Double Barrel
Dec 11, 2003, 10:44 AM
'Prehistoric man began global warming'

Date: December 11 2003

Measurements of ancient air bubbles trapped in Antarctic ice offers evidence that humans have been changing the global climate since thousands of years before the industrial revolution.

From 8000 years ago, atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide began to rise as humans started clearing forests, planting crops and raising livestock, a scientist said on Tuesday. Methane levels started increasing 3000 years later.

The combined increases of the two greenhouse gases implicated in global warming were slow but steady and staved off what should have been a period of significant natural cooling, said Bill Ruddiman, emeritus professor at the University of Virginia.

The changes also disrupted regular patterns that dominated the 400,000 years of atmospheric history that scientists have teased from samples of ancient ice.

"You have 395,000 years of history, which sets some rules, and 5000 years that break those rules," Professor Ruddiman said.

He briefed reporters on his theory at the autumn meeting of the American Geophysical Union on Tuesday. Further details appear in the December issue of the journal Climatic Change.

Previously, scientists assumed widely it was only with the onset of the factory age that human activity had any significant effect on the global climate. The prehistoric changes in carbon dioxide and methane levels have been noted before but were attributed to natural causes, Professor Ruddiman said.

"It's a great new idea we need to talk about and evaluate," said Bette Otto-Bliesner, a paleoclimate expert at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research, who was not connected with the research.

Atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide and methane naturally fluctuate, in part because of changes in the orbit of the Earth and the resulting variations in the amounts of sunlight.

But human activity apparently thwarted expected decreases in the atmospheric concentrations of both gases.

Leading the change was the revolutionary adoption, across both Europe and Asia, of agriculture and animal husbandry, Professor Ruddiman said.

Analysis of air trapped in ice cores drilled from the Antarctic ice sheet show anomalous increases in carbon dioxide levels beginning 8000 years ago - just as crop lands began to replace previously forested regions across Asia and Europe.

About 5000 years ago, the ice cores reflect a similarly anomalous rise in methane levels, this time tied to increased emissions from flooded rice fields, as well as burgeoning numbers of livestock, Professor Ruddiman said.

The prehistoric practices apparently overrode a build-up of ice that models predict should have occurred from 5000 years ago.


Source (http://www.smh.com.au/text/articles/2003/12/10/1070732281706.html)

Colonel Kraken
Dec 11, 2003, 10:54 AM
Well, it's official now: man's mere existance is a stench to mother nature. There is no hope for man. His mere existance is unnatural and filthy. Down with man!

I was wondering how long it would take 'em (that would be environmental wackos).

I say if anything we do as humans causes global warming forget about trying to stop it; it doesn't matter. Pollute away! :rolleyes:


--CK

Dr Jimbo
Dec 11, 2003, 11:23 AM
Yeah, I saw this in New Scientist. Pretty cool. Especially the bit about the depopulation and reforestation of Europe caused by the Black Death leading to the Little Ice Age of the Middle Ages.

@Kraken - the wackos aren't necessarily saying 'down with man', just 'look, this stuff happens, maybe we should try to deal with it and not be an ostrich'.
If an environmentalist/liberal/whatever told you you were about to be run over by a juggernaut, would you stay there and let it happen just to spite them?

Laughing Gull
Dec 11, 2003, 11:30 AM
one major volcanic eruption can affect the atmosphere for years, resulting in temporary climate change.

ltcoljt
Dec 11, 2003, 11:48 AM
Well, maybe. If you go back 8,000 years, yeah, thats a lot of farts.

RoddyVR
Dec 11, 2003, 12:06 PM
i think the problem is that humans are too dumb/slow.
i think nature/evolution (god if you prefer) intended for us to be off this rock LONG ago, way before we had a significant impact of the natural order of things.

but we're so slow that it has taken us thousands of years just to be able to THINK about leaving the rock, and then we're too lazy to actualy get off our butts and do it.

Pontiuth Pilate
Dec 11, 2003, 05:24 PM
one major volcanic eruption can affect the atmosphere for years, resulting in temporary climate change.

The key word being temporary. Most of the gaseous products of volcanoes are water-soluble. They only last as long as it takes to wash them out of the atmosphere.

Pontiuth Pilate
Dec 11, 2003, 05:24 PM
one major volcanic eruption can affect the atmosphere for years, resulting in temporary climate change.

The key word being temporary. Most of the gaseous products of volcanoes are water-soluble. They only last as long as it takes to wash them out of the atmosphere.

Pariah
Dec 11, 2003, 07:32 PM
What you're refering to as a "major" volcanic eruption would be the likes of Krakatoa or Thera, both within recorded history. Those were like champagne fizz, compared to the worst our planet can unleash.

The explosion of the caldera at Toba (Indonesia), about 70,000 BC, probably triggered one of the major ice ages - and, many anthropologists believe, knocked the early human race down to a few thousand individuals worldwide.

The eruption of the Deccan Traps flood basalts, in the late Cretaceous Period, amounted to over 2 MILLION cubic miles of lava. It may have been just as important in wiping out the dinosaurs as any cometary impact.

Over 600 million years ago, the whole globe may have been cocconed in ice at least 4 times. A gradual buildup of carbon dioxide from volcanos (which couldn't be absorbed by the oceans, if they were frozen over) steadily heated the planet until the glaciers finally melted: whereupon the climate flipped into a sweltering, acidic hothouse, with average temeratures above 40 Celsius.

These are examples of REAL climate change. Even the petty geological hiccups of the last 10,000 years were probably more influential than anything Neolithic man could have done.

newfangle
Dec 11, 2003, 07:35 PM
*Remembers days of radical environmentalism.*

I don't doubt that man is causing perhaps irreversable damage to the Earth.

I've realized that government intervention and international accords can not and will not solve the problem.

It has to be left to private companeis, free from government intervention.

Pariah
Dec 11, 2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by newfangle
*Remembers days of radical environmentalism.*

I don't doubt that man is causing perhaps irreversable damage to the Earth.

I've realized that government intervention and international accords can not and will not solve the problem.

It has to be left to private companeis, free from government intervention.

Environmentalism may no longer be radical for the most part, because it's no longer the preserve only of a "radical" minority. It's become an integral part of law and government, in the developed world at least. Unfortuanately, the current reactionary presidents of both the USA and Russia are trying to reverse that progress.

Private companies won't do anything which cuts into their short-term profits. The key to arresting environmental damage lies in scientists and engineers developing clean, sustainable technologies which are actually more economical than the polluting ones, with careful and well-advised state control to ensure the new technologies are adopted. State control can also implement large-scale recycling programs, and shut down trade in unsustainable products.

Bootstoots
Dec 11, 2003, 07:49 PM
What kind of climactic change could Yellowstone cause if it erupted?

Knight-Dragon
Dec 11, 2003, 09:30 PM
Moved to History... Interesting...

The Person
Dec 12, 2003, 02:17 AM
Man is Man. He is self-destructive, intelligent, technologically advanced, and most of all, STUPID. But don't give up your faith in Man. He has survived worse things...

Kafka2
Dec 12, 2003, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by Bootstoots
What kind of climactic change could Yellowstone cause if it erupted?

Immense change. Previous eruptions have thrown an estimated 200 cubic miles of pulverised rock and ash into the atmosphere. It has the potential to match or even surpass the Toba eruption.

An estimate would include burying most of the the contiguous US under about a foot of ash. As far as climactic changes go- the 535AD global upheaval (attributed to a massive blast at Krakatoa, considerably bigger the its 19th century show) caused a number of unusually severe winters right across Europe and sparked off decade-long droughts and famines in Asia and central America.

A Yellowstone blast is likely to be a lot worse than that.

Pariah
Dec 18, 2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by The Person
Man is Man. He is self-destructive, intelligent, technologically advanced, and most of all, STUPID. But don't give up your faith in Man. He has survived worse things...

Right. We have to believe that Man at least has the potential to get things right. We have, to a great extent, learned from our mistakes, and are changing our environmental practices - albeit a little late, and hesitantly in many cases. Even if a lot more damage is done to the Eartth, we'll live in harmony with it eventually.

Chauliodus
Dec 19, 2003, 04:48 PM
Immense change. Previous eruptions have thrown an estimated 200 cubic miles of pulverised rock and ash into the atmosphere. It has the potential to match or even surpass the Toba eruption.

Isn't there a state-size volcano under it?

If an environmentalist/liberal/whatever told you you were about to be run over by a juggernaut, would you stay there and let it happen just to spite them?

Seesh, its not like global warming is going to kill of all life on Earth, let alone man.

Chauliodus
Dec 19, 2003, 04:49 PM
What kind of climactic change could Yellowstone cause if it erupted?

Isn't there a state-size volcano under it?

If an environmentalist/liberal/whatever told you you were about to be run over by a juggernaut, would you stay there and let it happen just to spite them?

Seesh, its not like global warming is going to kill of all life on Earth, let alone man.

Pariah
Dec 19, 2003, 06:15 PM
I don't know about literally state-size, but Yellowstone does sit atop a magma chamber which would make that of pre-eruption Mount St. Helens look tiny. As Kafka2 said, it could probably throw out enough pyroclastic desposits to bury the whole United States several inches deep - though, of course, it wouldn't all be fine ash, and wouldn't form a layer of uniform thickness. A lot would stay in the stratosphere for years (obviously).

Global warming could, at worst, drown several dozen major cities and turn our breadbasket farmlands into deserts or swamps. If all the continental ice sheets on Earth melted, the oceans would rise about 70 metres: this would take at least millennia, though, since the ice would melt only slowly.