July 4, 1776?
December 7, 1941?
September 11, 2001?

Historically, what was the most signifigant date for this country and why? Should be some fun and iunteresting responses here. I will add mine in a bit.

April 4, 1917

The day the British surrendered at Yorktown something 1783 or maybe the treaty of Paris.

Poll?

July fourth, if you accept that as independance day. As was stated above, I find the date we won independance as opposed to the date we declared independance to be more important.

-Pat

July 4th we declared our indepdence, but, logically speaking we should have lost therefore it is not as important. What is a nation if it cannot win it's own independence war? So it should be whatever the exact date of the official treaty in which Britain recognized America as an independent nation.

-PB

The Treaty of Paris reconqized America streching from the Atlantic to the Mississimpi in the west. It was either 1783 or 1784.

June 21, 1788, the day the Constitution was ratified. On that day, the anarchy that was the Articles of Confederation ended and the current American government began.

Sure, USA had declared and won its independence, but this was the day they actually DID something with the independence.

I agree, Irish Caesar, I change my mind. :)

1492 Whatever day it was. Columbus discovers America. No discovery= no Declearation of independence etc.

Originally posted by Irish Caesar
June 21, 1788, the day the Constitution was ratified. On that day, the anarchy that was the Articles of Confederation ended and the current American government began.

Sure, USA had declared and won its independence, but this was the day they actually DID something with the independence. Hear, here.

The signing of the Declaration is significant as well. One key date that no one has alluded to is the purchase of the Louisianna Territory from France. It enlarged the nation 2-1, and set course for the opposite shore. Nov 7, 1860, the election of Abraham Lincoln is another candidate for the most significant.

J

Originally posted by Irish Caesar
June 21, 1788, the day the Constitution was ratified. On that day, the anarchy that was the Articles of Confederation ended and the current American government began.

Sure, USA had declared and won its independence, but this was the day they actually DID something with the independence.

Damn, you took my thing! ;)

Agreed. We set up American government and federalism and then invented the nation succesfully according to its ideas.

Unquestionably July 4, 1776. There are many dates after that which could arguably be used as the birth of the modern government, but the modern government ultimately isn’t, or at least shouldn’t be, what America is about. July 4, 1776 marks an important step in the evolution of what is acknowledged across the world as the belief of American freedom.

In 1775 those few British-Americans who dared challenge the rule of the sovereignty were hunted like dogs and treated as little more then treasonous anarchist (which they were) and when Paul Revere rode to Lexington on April 18, 1775 to warn Samuel Adams and John Hancock of their impending arrest at the hands of the redcoats the most loyal of the Sons of Liberty moved from there homes, in the middle of the night, to intercept the redcoats before they could arrest the revolutionaries. At Lexington Green the Redcoats and Sons of Liberty exchanged fire and eight of the 77 Sons of Liberty mortgaged their lives in the name of freedom.

As the redcoats tried to forge their way to concord more then 400 dissidents, armed and angry, intercepted the 120 Redcoats trying to pass the north bridge and pushed them back, by morning the bells of the church had called up more then 5,000 minutemen against the Redcoats, who were retreating to Boston. By the morning of April 19, 1775 the American colonists were officially enemies of the crown, and the war had begun.

But the war lacked something of value, while the people were willing to fight, and die, they did so more against taxes and injustice then in a major effort to make something more lasting of their efforts. The Shot Heard Round the World had opened the ears and minds of people across the globe, especially if a gang of rag-tag dissidents could defeat the most powerful monarch in the world, but the question of ‘what does it mean’ hung in the air. What did these revolutionaries really mean to accomplish with this war, simply another country that ruled the peasants with an iron fist? It wasn’t until July 4, 1776 when all 13 of the colonies declared, with a single voice, that they would not allow injustice. They would not permit a small class of royals to command them; they would not succeed to the power of a corrupt system. They raised up in a single voice and demanded not requested but demanded that they be given life, that they be given liberty and that that have the right and privilege to pursue their life as they, as individuals, saw fit. They proclaimed, as one, that they would no longer tolerate the destructive and selfish government that commanded their daily lives. They demanded that they be given their freedom, or they would destroy anyone and anything that tried to stop them.

The war went on for some time after that, and much time passed before the rest of the world accepted what Yankees had to say, but they were resolved, and victory was no longer a question of if, but when. Government would follow, treaties would follow, and even the eventual surrender of the British Empire would follow, but that belief that would attract the worlds most determined and assertive through the gates at Ellis Island was the most powerful weapon in the arsenal –freedom-, and on July 4, 1776 America offered it to the whole world.

Originally posted by Irish Caesar
June 21, 1788, the day the Constitution was ratified. On that day, the anarchy that was the Articles of Confederation ended and the current American government began.


The only other date I can think of that could compete with it
would be April 9, 1865, when the combination of Grant, Lee and Lincoln saw to that the Civil War would not end with mass
reprisals and/or lingering guerilla warfare.

Originally posted by Duantalus
It wasn’t until July 4, 1776 when all 13 of the colonies declared, with a single voice, that they would not allow injustice. They would not permit a small class of royals to command them; they would not succeed to the power of a corrupt system. They raised up in a single voice and demanded not requested but demanded that they be given life, that they be given liberty and that that have the right and privilege to pursue their life as they, as individuals, saw fit. They proclaimed, as one, that they would no longer tolerate the destructive and selfish government that commanded their daily lives. They demanded that they be given their freedom, or they would destroy anyone and anything that tried to stop them.

The war went on for some time after that, and much time passed before the rest of the world accepted what Yankees had to say, but they were resolved, and victory was no longer a question of if, but when. Government would follow, treaties would follow, and even the eventual surrender of the British Empire would follow, but that belief that would attract the worlds most determined and assertive through the gates at Ellis Island was the most powerful weapon in the arsenal –freedom-, and on July 4, 1776 America offered it to the whole world.

....er....except if they were black slaves, or Native American Indians of course.
“We want freedom from oppression....but we also want to oppress others”
Hypocritical? ;)

No war has so many myths, distortions, and outright falsehoods as that of the American War of Independence. Who was it that said “tell a lie often enough, and people will eventually think that it is true”? I would just like to remind people of some of the real truths concerning the causes of this conflict.

Taxation: it has been estimated that the average American colonist of the 18th century paid no more than sixpence a year in taxes, while the average English taxpayer paid some 25 shillings, or 300 pence a year….hardly oppressive!
There were two ways of gathering taxes at this time; indirect taxation levied on exports (which affected the rich and the entrepreneurial middle class businessmen), and direct taxation (which affected everybody). Smuggling was rife in America, making the collection of indirect taxes from exported goods so inefficient that it cost £8,000 in order to collect £2,000 worth of customs duties in American ports! So, in a misguided and heavy-handed fashion, the foolish British government of that time tried to impose direct taxation, such as Stamp Duty, which of course failed as well.

Oppression: the population in the American colonies at this time was two and a half million, of which some half a million were black slaves. The British maintained some 10,000 soldiers in America, partly to protect the colonists from the French, and partly to protect them from Native American Indian attacks.
You see, in 1763 the Indian chief Pontiac, fearing that his ancestral lands would be overrun by white settlers, organised a concerted attack which captured many frontier forts and plundered the settlements along the frontier. As any government which failed to protect it’s citizens would not stay in office for very long, what the British did was to establish the Proclamation Line along the Appalachian Mountains in order to prevent the whites from antagonising the Indians. From the colonists point of view, these 10,000 soldiers were stopping them from stealing the Indians land….and the British government expected the colonists to pay for them! Intolerable!
Interestingly enough, some 200,000 colonists emigrated to Canada after the Americans gained their independence. Why? Did they like being ‘oppressed’?
The truth is that something like a third of the colonists wanted to break with Britain (mostly the rich middle classes), about a third of them wanted to stay British, and the rest didn’t care either way.

So what were the REAL reasons for this conflict?
Why didn’t the colonists in Canada fight for their own independence?
Why did so many of them emigrate rather than be ‘free’?

The answer lies in the character of the people who made up the colonies.
Many of them settled in America in order to escape the tight constrains of European society, to have a bit more free choice in their lives. And the sons and daughters of these settlers, who had seen their parents creating new farms and businesses in what had been a wilderness, had no loyalty to some distant country that they had never visited. So when this distant government, which had let them get on with it for over a century, and had largely been powerless to impose direct control due to the lack of infrastructure in this wild wilderness, suddenly began to tell them to pay their taxes, they quite naturally rebelled.
They hadn’t had to worry about taxes before, as Britain had mostly left them alone, so why should they pay now?
(Of course, once America became independent, their taxes became MUCH higher than what the British had asked them to pay. But at least they had the illusion that they had some control over what the new tax rate would be)

In fact, this rebellious spirit is still part of modern American culture today, what with Survivalist Groups, Waco type religious cults, and the National Rifle Association’s old fashioned fanaticism with guns, when it is quite obvious that stricter gun laws would make their society a much safer place (over 11,000 deaths a year, according to the “Bowling for Columbine” documentary film).
All these groups, plus many others, seem to show a deep dislike of governmental authority, be it the Federal Government, or even the United Nations….which America formed in the first place!

Please don’t think that I am being ‘anti-American’, which some people seem to think means criticising ANYTHING American, especially the myths of their distorted history. Citizens of today’s United States have every right to be proud of many of the things that their ancestors did which made this nation the world superpower that it is today, although it is up to future historians to decide if today’s generation is to be looked back on with pride or embarrassment.
It’s just that not being an American myself, I can see the wood for the trees, or look past the flag if you will.
For all their faults, I for one freely admit that I would sooner live under an American dominated world, imperfect as it is, rather than that of the Nazis or Communists. :)

At my school there is a whole class dedicated to the year of 1963 (I think that's it), the year inwhich Kennedy was shot. Infact there is a whole book on it called "The Way We Were 1963 The Year Kennedy was Shot." That is probably the most significant date in U.S. History. It's a year and not a day like therest of the dates mentioned (thought I would point out the obvious).


A few things I can recall that happened in 1963:
Kennedy's assasination
Vietnam war in full swing
large flu epidemic
Cuban Missle Crisis
Delta launched into space
Closing of Alcatraz
Davey Moore died in a boxing match
Large Civil rights movements (for Blacks)
Many other things.

While I agree that the original technicalities of the American government was little more then a government by white protestant males for white protestant males, the underlying idea is the same. They wanted to be free to make their own country, a country made by the common man who understood common needs. I also agree that this desire ultimately proved to be flawed in the creation of the government, it did encourage the idea for all people, whether they be black, white, blue or green, male or female, tall or short, ugly or not you could alter the fabric of the government. I also accept that this also did not turn out perfectly, but I would like you to offer me even one example that has dome such an amazing job. The days are irrelevant, as are many of the purposes. There was a scream for freedom in the world and the Yankees were the first to step up to the plate and grab that desire.

You do seem to have a certain air of ‘anti-American’ about you though and your attempt to hide behind another flag doesn’t guise it well. I myself originated behind another flag, one I am very disgusted by, and I am more then proud to have earned the right to hide behind the red, white and blue. I’m sure had I been born an American I would be far more likely to either not care or join in the battering of American achievements. Frankly, from what history I learned in my native land, and then what I have learned here in the U.S.A., I would say that the Americans have made most of the best decisions of the past 60 or 70 years, though most other English speakers seem to think that it was the British.

Kryten, I liked your post. Being an American myself I can see the different sides of the conflict.

However never EVER cite the Bowling for Columbine "documentary" as a legitmate source for any statistic.

It's like calling CNN or Fox news "balanced"

Covok is quite right there Kryten, Bowling for Columbine was the total anathema of a serious documentary. Top marks on the rest of your post however. :)

Well covok48 & Kentonio, I do try and give my sources, flawed as they may be, which is why I said “….according to the Bowling for Columbine documentary film”, which was one American’s view of his own American society. :)

Originally posted by Duantalus
I also accept that this also did not turn out perfectly, but I would like you to offer me even one example that has dome such an amazing job. The days are irrelevant, as are many of the purposes. There was a scream for freedom in the world and the Yankees were the first to step up to the plate and grab that desire.


Again, this is not strictly true.
In the mid 17th century, England fought a bitter civil war that lasted from 1642 to 1649 in order to determine whether an absolute monarch or an elected parliament would rule the country. Parliament won, and king Charles the first had his head cut off. However, the change to a fully republican style of government was too big a jump and too radical, so in 1660 Charles II was recalled from exile. But the political system had changed forever, with the king as little more than a figurehead, and parliament making all the real decisions from now on.
Of course, the system was not perfect. Parliament was split into two bodies: an unelected aristocratic hereditary House of Lords, with the real power belonging to the elected House of Commons, chosen from the middle classes (the working classes would not get the vote until the late 1800’s, and women had to wait until the early 20th century….nonetheless, it was a step in the right direction).
The Americans adopted and extended this system. They too had two bodies, Congress and Senate, the main differences being that they discarded the figurehead monarch, and both bodies were elective instead of the old fashioned, outdated, and soon to be changed hereditary House of Lords.

But before I get accused of being off topic, I would like to return to the main theme of this thread, and offer a non-Americans view of the most important date in American history, from an outsiders perspective.
I nominate December 7th, 1941.

In the 1920’s, 30’s, and early 40’s, America became very isolationist. Far from being the leading light in world freedom, they were quite prepared to just sit and watch as the Nazis spread their evil regime over Western Europe, Scandinavia, the Mediterranean, and western Russia. It was not they but Britain and France who tried to avoid war by the misguided use of ‘appeasement’, and finally held up the torch of democracy by declaring war in order to protect Poland’s freedom, even though they were totally unprepared. In fact, it has always been Britain’s foreign policy to be the enemy of anyone in Europe who conquered their neighbours, be it Louis XIV, Napoleon, the Kaiser, or Hitler, which is why small nations such as Belgium, the Netherlands and Denmark still exist today instead of being swallowed up larger nations. President Roosevelt (a very wise man, and one of the best presidents that America has ever had) was bending over backwards desperately trying to get America into the war.
All this changed when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, and Hitler foolishly declared war on America.
This woke up the United States, and made them realise that they had to step into the vacuum that would soon be left once the decaying British Empire fell apart. (Unlike the French in Indochina, the British didn’t try to hold on to their colonies by military force, but could see the writing on the wall, so instead let their dependences have their independence).

Had it not been for December 7th 1941, Europe today would in all probability still be under the iron boot of the Nazis, and the world would be a much darker place. ;)

I think that USA intervention in WW1 is even more important than in WW2. In WW1 Rusia was defeated and Germany could have won in 1918, after all, or get a better peace teatry.

Of course, the question it's whether Rusia and UK would have survived withouth USA in WW2... I believe that not without Lend-Lease, but probably, with USA help even in the levels prior to Pear Harbor, with much more cost of lives and time, maybe Germany would have been defeated by UK and Rusia.

the beginning of makind, when God created earth. Since then the soil, is destined to harbor the nation of the US of A. That nation will complete God's creation & turn the earth back into the paradise out of which Adam & Eve were expelled. :mischief:

1812, having to rebuild the White House and mot of oyur capitol is probably a significant moment [/Canadian Smart ass comment]

I agree with the assassination of Kennedy, that someone mentioned, it help jump start many conspiracy theories and ppl's distrust of the government. Also from I've learned, it seemed to IMMEDIATELY effect ppl on a real emotional level. 9/11 and Pearl harbour are similar, but the culprit was known, the Assassin(s) of Kennedy is still generally a mystery. I think it helped make USA into it's own culture rather than just former British colony.

I was the person that mentioned Kennedy's assasination in 1963. Much more happened then the assasination. I know I said alot of things, some of them weren't to great, but as far as I know something really big happened in Vietnam. I believe it may have been the fall of Saigogn (or something like that), that started a lot of peace rallies if I'm not mistakened and that created a whole new page in American history and culture. Were would we be today without songs like, "If you're going to San Fransico" and a bunch of other Hippie (I don't even know if that's the correct spelling and how offensive that might be, so sorry in advance)songs!:p

2/7/1989 - The day that the Pimp They Call Money$ims was born.;)

acutally, i believe it was the day we won our independance tied with 7/4/1776. the surredner of the Confederates at Appotomax Courthouse and the abolishment of slavery were also important days.

Originally posted by Ossric
the beginning of makind, when God created earth. Since then the soil, is destined to harbor the nation of the US of A. That nation will complete God's creation & turn the earth back into the paradise out of which Adam & Eve were expelled. :mischief:

Those events never happened. But that debate is for a different thread.

Kryten, EXCELLENT post. :) It's people like you who I wish I met more in discussing history stuff.

My only nitpick is that some Canadian colonists actually wanted independence too, of course. In fact, if I remember correctly, Nova Scotian colonists actually had a fair amount of pro-independent colonists, but as more troops had been stationed there, they could more easily keep the pro-independence colonists at bay.

Originally posted by BorgeoisBuffoon
Kryten, EXCELLENT post. :) It's people like you who I wish I met more in discussing history stuff.

My only nitpick is that some Canadian colonists actually wanted independence too, of course. In fact, if I remember correctly, Nova Scotian colonists actually had a fair amount of pro-independent colonists, but as more troops had been stationed there, they could more easily keep the pro-independence colonists at bay.

Bah, no Canadian in his right mind would be pro yank at the time. Look at the assualt on Quebec. Arnold and the other guy expected the Quebecois to rise and throw the British out. And we all know what happpened.:) ;)

Originally posted by Irish Caesar
June 21, 1788, the day the Constitution was ratified. On that day, the anarchy that was the Articles of Confederation ended and the current American government began.

Sure, USA had declared and won its independence, but this was the day they actually DID something with the independence.

I agree with this, I just couldnt remember the date :D

Originally posted by Constantine


Bah, no Canadian in his right mind would be pro yank at the time. Look at the assualt on Quebec. Arnold and the other guy expected the Quebecois to rise and throw the British out. And we all know what happpened.:) ;)

Well, of course! During the times up to the revolution was what I meant-and once the war started rolling minds could naturally change. ;)

Originally posted by sims2789


Those events never happened. But that debate is for a different thread.

i was making a silly joke, i'm not a believer myself.

Originally posted by Ossric


i was making a silly joke, i'm not a believer myself.

Yeah, the mischief smilie is a give away for sarcasm ;)

I agree that April 19, 1775 is probably the most significant date in American history. The "shot heard around the world" at Lexington green ended the colonies' submission to George III's oppression and started the active move towards independence. Granted up until that day, there was great unrest.... the Boston Massacre, the Boston Tea Party. But until that rag-tag band of militia stood up against the British army, the colonies were not in armed rebellion.

Originally posted by Duantalus
While I agree that the original technicalities of the American government was little more then a government by white protestant males for white protestant males, the underlying idea is the same. They wanted to be free to make their own country, a country made by the common man who understood common needs. I also agree that this desire ultimately proved to be flawed in the creation of the government, it did encourage the idea for all people, whether they be black, white, blue or green, male or female, tall or short, ugly or not you could alter the fabric of the government. I also accept that this also did not turn out perfectly, but I would like you to offer me even one example that has dome such an amazing job. The days are irrelevant, as are many of the purposes. There was a scream for freedom in the world and the Yankees were the first to step up to the plate and grab that desire.



The (protestant) Dutch took up their weapons to fight the Spanish to win independence. After they won they formed a republic where not one man, but a whole class (merchants) of tens of thousands decided what the government should do. This was all well before even New Amsterdam was founded which later became New York. 1568, to be exact. I know this is not exactly the same situation, but don't say the Yankees were the first, or something.

Originally posted by archer_007


I agree with this, I just couldnt remember the date :D

I looked it up in my pocket copy of the Constitution :cool:

It comes in handy to have a small copy to carry around, in case I get into a debate somewhere.

I am going to take a contrarian view and say September 13, 1759; the day the French lost the Battle of the Plains of Abraham and their power in North America was forever broken. This was the day that began the chain of events that led to American independence.

Protection from the French was the main thing that the colonists needed from Britain. With the French no longer a threat the relationship became something less than a necessity.

Britain's method of paying down the debt caused by the war was what actually pushed the colonists towards revolution.

The Navigation Acts were a case in point. Though they were passed earlier it wasn't until after the French and Indian War/Seven Years War that they were enforced in North America. These acts proclaimed that all American exports to Europe had to go through Britain first and that all American imports had to be bought through British middle men. It was also a major increase in the de facto level of import duties. This disrupted America's natural pre-existing trade patterns causing severe economic hardship, especially it those areas that were dependent on trade for the bulk of their economy. Boston was in an economic depression from the early 1760's until the Revolution as a direct result of the Navigation Acts and all that followed. These acts were enforced to increase tariff revenues for the treasury and to help the British mercantile classes recover from the Seven Years War. Because they had no representation in Parliment the American mercantile classes interest's were not considered.

Britain also directly taxed the colonies to pay off some of the war debt. On the face of it this seemed like a reasonable policy. What bothered the colonists was that they were being taxed by a Parliment that they had no influence over and that was disolving their colonial legislatures when they protested. These policies made it seem to them that they lost their rights as Englishmen by crossing the Atlantic. (All it would have taken to ward off the revolution was giving America seats in Parliment comensurate with it's share of the the British Empire).

In short the fall of Quebec created both the psychological possiblity of American independence and the actual grievences that led to it. If the British/Colonial forces had lost that battle and campaign North America would be a very different place today.

Originally posted by Constantine


Bah, no Canadian in his right mind would be pro yank at the time. Look at the assualt on Quebec. Arnold and the other guy expected the Quebecois to rise and throw the British out. And we all know what happpened.:) ;)

I'd really like to hear about this story. I believe our version of history is pretty different on each side of our border (Quebec/Ontario and the rest of Canada). Our history books tends to place the English Canadiens (British at that time) as the bad guys, but I am pretty sure those same books are written differently in different places, eventhough it's about the exact same events.

I must sadly admit that most Quebecers hate English (but when you ask them why they don't know). I'd like to hear about that same history from people on the other side of the conflict.

Our history books say that at the time of the independance declarations, Americans sat and voted on which of English or French should be the official language, and that French failed to win by only a few votes. I am not sure if this is true nor possible. Was the English/Americans/English Canadians under the control of the French at that time? Or was it way before or way after? Or did it happen at all?

Originally posted by Tom|420


I'd really like to hear about this story. I believe our version of history is pretty different on each side of our border (Quebec/Ontario and the rest of Canada). Our history books tends to place the English Canadiens (British at that time) as the bad guys, but I am pretty sure those same books are written differently in different places, eventhough it's about the exact same events.

I must sadly admit that most Quebecers hate English (but when you ask them why they don't know). I'd like to hear about that same history from people on the other side of the conflict.

Our history books say that at the time of the independance declarations, Americans sat and voted on which of English or French should be the official language, and that French failed to win by only a few votes. I am not sure if this is true nor possible. Was the English/Americans/English Canadians under the control of the French at that time? Or was it way before or way after? Or did it happen at all?



I believe it was a vote between English and German. And not as a national language, but for something that had to do with trade. I don't know exactly, I have read it a long time ago in a book on American history. I do know that is was because in some cities and in some trades the Germans were a majority, there were so many immigrants from Central Europe, especially Germany.

Originally posted by Irish Caesar
June 21, 1788, the day the Constitution was ratified. On that day, the anarchy that was the Articles of Confederation ended and the current American government began.

Sure, USA had declared and won its independence, but this was the day they actually DID something with the independence.

:goodjob: Wow! Nice one!

Originally posted by Tavenier




I believe it was a vote between English and German. the US has no official language and has never had one. The idea was discussed and tabled during the writing of the constitution. It failed because the framers of the constitution didn't want to alienate the large German speaking minority in Pennsylvania and the French speaking Voyageurs living beyond the frontiers in the northern states.

Originally posted by Tom|420


I'd really like to hear about this story. I believe our version of history is pretty different on each side of our border (Quebec/Ontario and the rest of Canada). Our history books tends to place the English Canadiens (British at that time) as the bad guys, but I am pretty sure those same books are written differently in different places, eventhough it's about the exact same events.

I must sadly admit that most Quebecers hate English (but when you ask them why they don't know). I'd like to hear about that same history from people on the other side of the conflict.

Our history books say that at the time of the independance declarations, Americans sat and voted on which of English or French should be the official language, and that French failed to win by only a few votes. I am not sure if this is true nor possible. Was the English/Americans/English Canadians under the control of the French at that time? Or was it way before or way after? Or did it happen at all?

Someone from Quebec dosnt know about the American attack?

Basically two armies commanded by Arnold and Montogermy(iirc) led the American advance into Quebec and hoped the Quebecois would join them agansit the Brits. Which never happened. And they tried to take Quebec Citys Citadeal which failed.

yeah all my textbooks say Ontario edition. So Tom I guess the PQ were trying to brainwash all quebec kids into anti English.;) :lol:

Originally posted by Constantine




yeah all my textbooks say Ontario edition. So Tom I guess the PQ were trying to brainwash all quebec kids into anti English.;) :lol: ...when they should be brainwashing them into being anti American.;) :lol:

There was a bit of pro independence sympathy in Nova Scotia during the revolution. It was settled mainly by New Englanders. The geographic isolation from the other colonies and Britain's large garrison there combined with Rev. Alline's religious movement prevented any action beyond sympathy (aside from a ridiculous assult on Fort Cumberland by some pro-independence Nova Scotians). Many people on both sides expected Nova Scotia to be one of the original 14 states and were suprised in 1783 when the Treaty of Paris allowed Britain to retain it. This has probably been airbrushed out of Canadian text books as most off-key notes are in all countries (in my high school advanced American history text the Mexican American War amounted to one and a half of it's 500+ pages!)

For the life of me I can't understand what Arnold and his superiors were thinking in Quebec. Though the Quebecois must have bristled at being a conquered people, the American colonists had been their blood enemies for the previous 150 years in a vicious series of colonial frontier wars. Also they were enjoying more freedom under British rule than they had under French monarchy (Quebec had suffered greatly from the incompetence of Louis XV, the venality of his mistress Madame Pompadour who actually ran France at the time and the greed of those they appointed to govern in their name). They probably just wanted to be left alone.

August... 7th maybe? 1945. I'm not to sure about my dates... they're not terribly important.

World War 2 is over, no more isolationism or the world gets :rocket:ed by communism. World War 3 was destined to occur again due to communism (or some problem likely related to it) if we had stayed in isolation.

Originally posted by mdm
August... 7th maybe? 1945. I'm not to sure about my dates... they're not terribly important.

World War 2 is over, no more isolationism or the world gets :rocket:ed by communism. World War 3 was destined to occur again due to communism (or some problem likely related to it) if we had stayed in isolation.



Good one, mdm. Probably the most significant US date for the world was august 15 1945 (Japanese surrendered). With isolationism WW3 was far more likely, IMHO.

The most significant for America itself IMO is 1492. Don't know the exact date.

Originally posted by Zardnaar
1492 Whatever day it was. Columbus discovers America. No discovery= no Declearation of independence etc.

Columbus discoverd America, not the USA. By America one means the land mass extending from Canada to Chile. Columbus never set foot in what is now the USA. He landed in the Carribean.

Originally posted by sysyphus


Columbus discoverd America, not the USA. By America one means the land mass extending from Canada to Chile. Columbus never set foot in what is now the USA. He landed in the Carribean.



Really?!?!? :p

If Columbus didn't do that then someone would have, but maybe a century, or more, later. Maybe less, but no one knows. History for all New World countries would have been totally different.
Even if it was only 10 years later then all would be different. The Spanish just kicked out the last muslim in 1492 and had nothing to do for the immense amount of veteran soldiers, to say it simply. They found a new conquerable continent and was happy they could send all those veterans. 10 Years later that would have been different and maybe the Aztecs and Inca were not conquered completely, or at least not so fast.

I think the day Stonewall Jackson got shot. Otherwise, the Federalists would have lost the war of agression against the South.

July 20, 1969.

My birthday :D

March 18, 1794

It was on this day that Congress authorized the construction of the US Navy. It allowed us to halt the pirate actions against us and gave us some of our best propoganda from the War of 1812. The Navy transported our army to Veracruz to allow us to defeat a then significantly superiour foe, Mexico. It allowed us to force Japan to open its ports. Next it allowed the Union to execute the Anaconda plan 1861-65. Next it allowed us to defeat the Spanish in 1898 (and give us more propoganda). It indirectly gave the world Alfred Thayer Mahan's Influence of Seapower.... It didn't do much in WWI, aside from reinforce the RN. Then it gave us a means to fight the U-Boat peril and the IJN. And much since then (too much typing) ;)

I think the day Stonewall Jackson got shot. Otherwise, the Federalists would have lost the war of agression against the South.

How intruiging, precisely what do you feel Jackson would have done that would have so affected the war? :)

Originally posted by mdm
August... 7th maybe? 1945. I'm not to sure about my dates... they're not terribly important.

World War 2 is over, no more isolationism or the world gets :rocket:ed by communism. World War 3 was destined to occur again due to communism (or some problem likely related to it) if we had stayed in isolation.

Whether you believe in the idea of a creeping communist threat or not (and I'm far from convinced), the end of WW2 was no doubt one of the most if not the most momentous event in U.S. history. Never before and never since has the U.S. been so powerful, so able to fashion the world according to its will and its interests -- it was, in a sense, the culmination of the centuries of expansion that started in 1609. And the war did, as you said, more or less permanently kill off isolationism and neutrality. Of course, there remain strains of 1920s-style "isolationism" in the form of unilateralism, which in itself is a reaction to the decline of American power (not in absolute terms, but vis a vis the rest of the world) since that pinnacle of 1945.

Appomatox, the turning point of the French in the French and Indian War, and the signing of the constitution are pretty good contenders for most important date, too.

Ooh, ooh! Just thought of another one. The Battle of New Orleans, 1815. Yes, it was fought after the treaty was signed. Suppose the British had won, essentially giving them control of the vast territory of Louisiana -- would they necessarily have given it back? I've read, though I'm not certain where, that travelling with the British fleet was a colonial governor intended to take over the territory had the British succeeded in routing Jackson's forces. Who knows...

'Course, I couldn't tell you if the British could have held on to the area had that happened (I'm no 1812 scholar); for the Americans to have fought the most powerful nation on earth to a draw, which was the effective outcome, was a pretty impressive feat in and of itself.

Originally posted by ltcoljt
I think the day Stonewall Jackson got shot. Otherwise, the Federalists would have lost the war of agression against the South.

Diffucult to call in Northern aggression when the South fired the first shots.

What about the Boston Massacre (can't remember the date)?

Without it, the US revolutionaries would never have been able to rally such blind support for their cause!

Also, I would consider 1492 to be one of the darkest days of American history. It resulted in mass genocide (over 200,000 killed in 5 years), slavery, and the start of a long line of imperialism that would claim many millions of lives. In fact, I think I'll start a thread on the darkest days of US history.

Originally posted by poopsikins
Ooh, ooh! Just thought of another one. The Battle of New Orleans, 1815. Yes, it was fought after the treaty was signed. Suppose the British had won, essentially giving them control of the vast territory of Louisiana -- would they necessarily have given it back? I've read, though I'm not certain where, that travelling with the British fleet was a colonial governor intended to take over the territory had the British succeeded in routing Jackson's forces. Who knows...

'Course, I couldn't tell you if the British could have held on to the area had that happened (I'm no 1812 scholar); for the Americans to have fought the most powerful nation on earth to a draw, which was the effective outcome, was a pretty impressive feat in and of itself.

Ah, you mean the the war started by the U.S. in 1812, in which the Americans tried to invade Canada while Britain was fully engaged with fighting Napoleon in Europe, were repelled, and ended up having their capital city captured and burnt? ;)

Here is a quick overview of this conflict:-


Although Napoleon continued to seize American vessels in French ports, President James Madison accepted his statements as proof that French antineutral decrees had been lifted. He reimposed the ban on trade with Britain in November 1810 and demanded that the British ministry repeal the orders in council as a condition for resumption of Anglo-American trade. Britain refused to comply, and Madison summoned Congress into session in November 1811 to prepare for war. Britain's alliance with the Shawnee under Tecumseh also raised tension, leading to agitation for an American invasion of Canada. After months of debate, Congress declared war on Great Britain on June 18, 1812.

The comparatively weak US forces, led by inept generals, garnered more humiliations than victories. US forces were ordered to invade Canada at points between Detroit and Montreal, but poor planning, organization, and leadership undermined this strategy. British general Isaac Brock, together with the north-western Native Americans led by the Shawnee chief Tecumseh, captured Detroit, while on the Niagara peninsula two American armies were defeated. In one of these engagements, the Battle of Queenston Heights, more than 900 American prisoners were taken. In 1813 American forces reoccupied Detroit after Oliver Hazard Perry captured the British fleet on Lake Erie, thus enabling William Henry Harrison to defeat the combined British and Native American forces at the battle of the Thames in October. In the east, an American army had taken York (now Toronto) in May, but the failure of subsequent campaigns against Kingston and Montreal prevented the United States from further extending its power into Canada. In the autumn of 1813 the war spread to the south-western frontier in a conflict with the Creek people, who were eventually defeated by forces under Andrew Jackson at the battle of Horseshoe Bend (March 1814). Furthermore, despite victories of single American warships in the Atlantic, such as that of the Constitution over the Guerrière in 1812, the Royal Navy by 1813 had blockaded much of the eastern coast and thus ruined US trade with foreign nations; later duels between individual ships went against the Americans.

By 1814 American forces had improved in quality and leadership. In July armies under Jacob Brown and Winfield Scott fought British troops on even terms at Chippewa and Lundy's Lane, near Niagara. Napoleon's defeat in Europe, however, freed Britain to send more troops to North America. By late summer the United States had to face invasions from combined army and naval forces at Lake Champlain and in Chesapeake Bay. A US naval victory on Lake Champlain in September 1814 compelled one invading army to retreat to Canada, but in August a British force landed in Bladensburg, Maryland, and marched almost unopposed to Washington, D.C., burning several government buildings, including the White House and the Capitol building. US forces eventually defeated British forces at Lake Champlain and at Baltimore, Maryland, stalemating the military situation and accelerating peace treaty negotiations.

Great Britain and the United States agreed to commence peace negotiations in January 1814, but the talks were delayed until July. Both nations began negotiations with unrealistic demands. The United States wanted an end to all objectionable British maritime practices and also demanded cessions of Canadian territory. Britain sought a neutral Native American buffer state in the Northwest Territory and wanted to revise both the American-Canadian boundary and the 1783 Treaty of Paris that had established US independence. They finally agreed to return to the pre-war status quo in a treaty signed at Ghent, Belgium, on December 24, 1814. This treaty was ratified by Britain four days later and by the US Senate on February 16, 1815. Between these dates a final battle was fought on January 8, when a British army, not knowing of the treaty, landed at the mouth of the Mississippi River and was defeated near New Orleans by forces under Andrew Jackson.

The Treaty of Ghent failed to secure US maritime rights, but in the century of peace in Europe from 1815 until World War I they were not seriously threatened. Britain never again pursued its disputes with the United States to the point of risking another war. The United States did not conquer Canada, but Native American opposition to American expansion in the North-west and South-west was broken. Both the United States and Canada emerged from the war with an increased sense of national purpose and awareness.

Microsoft Encarta Reference Library 2002.

So yes, I suppose it was a draw.
(Although if I was playing a game of Civ3, and tried to invade another nation, but got repelled, and then had my capital city captured and sacked, I doubt if I would call it a draw.... :lol: )

August 6. 1945. USA became the first super power in the world with a working fission bomb used as a mean to achieve a goal. Without it we can only speculate how the last 59 years would've been...