http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Heavy_Legion_assorted_pics.jpg


well, one day I was thinking about what kind of a soldire would make a good midieval infantry unit for the Romans- had to be heavilly armoured, but it also should be based on what Rome had...

anyway, after playing a little civ, in one of my ever so rare bouts, I got to thiniking "hey, enginerring shoudl really be alot earlyer, considering Roan mastey of it..." (well, it wasnt that, but it was kinda close to it ;)), any way thats when it hit me- in civ3 terms, ROme actually survived quite a few techs into the middle ages- after all, if Cataphracts replace knights... well, I started looking for troops before the rise of cataphracts to fill the role of a "super heavey legionary"... and I found it :)

now, after looking at that undnyabley kick ass portrait of one of the mighty forms of soldires Romes used to kick everyoness collective asses with, you may wonder, "well Xen, what the hell did you find, and why are you pissing me off with a long story?"

well the answer is, I remember reading about a forum of "super heavey legionary" used in Emperor Trajans campaigns against the Dacians (the last of the people within the Thracian culture I might add), and as for the story, well, tough luck :p

any way, this sort of takes care of multiple birds with one stone-

A)a history based Roman replacement for the medieval infantry

B)a unit that makes sense in its placement given real history

C)a all around kick ass unit

this unit, in a way, extends the life time of the legionary unit, at least graphically, an dmakes sense- a VERY strong offensive unit right before the dominace of cavalry in old world armies...

dont be afraid forum browsers- post your opinions!

Someone have converted the Phalanx of AoE, that in red collor civ, become very similar to this infantry that you propose...
I use that for this.

It looks quite a lot like the civ legionnaire.

@Costa e Silva- ALL the AOE conversions SUCK

@Zeekater- thats the point- its SUPPOSED to look like the legionary ;)

I don't get it, you want this unit to be created right? Who is going to create a new unit, that looks exactly like one we already have?

Originally posted by Zeekater
I don't get it, you want this unit to be created right? Who is going to create a new unit, that looks exactly like one we already have?

it dosent look exactley like it, if you would take the time to look, there a great deal of differnces- but thats only if you would take the time to look:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

as for who would create it- good point, my main man Utahjazz is out of action for the time being, so I will appeal to a differnt artist for the time being I have a few lined up- some skilled animators, and redorists who could all do this unit great justice, and IIRC, dont have a great deal on there plate at the moment

as a note, I've encounterd reasoning the same as yours before, but I still was able to get several cataphract units, and a late ROman infantry man out, and the legionary fulminata, a very "what if" oriented unit in production

that looks cool, I think I will draw a larger version of that and maybe make a couple of alterations. :)

Originally posted by Kal-el
that looks cool, I think I will draw a larger version of that and maybe make a couple of alterations. :)

ooo! like adding a helmet crest? your the best Kal ;)

I use the Civ3 Legionary for the med. infantry replacement and BeBro's Legionaire for the old spot. But I know you don't like BeBro's Roman animations so I won't even suggest it for you, Xen.. :p

right, besides, the stadard civ3 legionary just dosent look "heavey enough" to really fit in with the midieval infantry

i personally think that a heavy-legionnaire is a wise idea... although i do think that making a new unit which looks alot like the original with a little more metal on him/her is a little pain-staking a task for someone... but as for weaponry, i'm abit of a swordsman

hint hint ;)

I swing to the sowrds man version myself as well, the pilum throwers are just to give a better round about veiw of the potential unit ;)

Looks nice. You're getting close to a complete set of ancient/early medieval Roman flavour units. Whats next Xen, Roman Modern Armour? :p

nope, modern ROman infantry ;p

maybe the odd roman ICBM...?

I dunno, those all kinda look the same to me ;)

The unit i have mentioned look "heavey enough", and this was my point...
I just wanna put my current solution for that...
Dom Pedro had put the another current solution, the firaxis Legionary, but like you said, it isn't look "heavey enough".
So, i will continue to use the converted unit. If someone build a more "acuracy" unit i will be glad...

then you support the unit- the purpose of threads liek this isnt to point out that a crappy alternative exists, put to push the creation of an awesome unit like this ;)

I'm guessing you want a unit besides BeBro's Imperial Legionary (it is a bit taller than the Civ3 Legionary, though)

The one on the lower left.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/romans01.jpg

no, simply put, I think bebros units suck

One way or another...
Bebro's unit isn't "heavey enough"...

nope, they just suck - no offense to him or anything, his other units are good, just his roman units suck donkey balls

just put a foot thick metal plat around its chest.. a helmet made of titanium 3 inches think boots an inch thick. a shield a meter thick... and equip him with an icbm... is that heavy enough?

yeah, but then he would look goofy :p

I say just stick with the picture I have posted, and that woud be enough :p

ok, maybe not the icbm then, hm?

unless that armor holds itself up, you're going to be pouring your man out of the suit...

whos armour? the heavey legionary? hrdley- these guys were the entire reason behing Emopor Trajans victoy in the two dacian wars, and the subsequent conqouest of Dacia, as well as HUGE stretches of all the way to the Persian gulf, and the Caspian sea

I meant the guy wearing the 1-foot thick armor... :D

I don't understand how you can say BeBros Roman units suck... but on the other hand, the more units made the better. So it will be great if this is made! And I'm looking forward to see Kal-el's sketch aswell...

I don't understand why he can't find a more gentle way to say the same thing, but whatever...

Originally posted by Xen
nope, they just suck - no offense to him or anything, his other units are good, just his roman units suck donkey balls Instead of writing "no offense" you should use that brain of yours, and try not to give offense in the first place!

I don't understand how you can be so bloody selfish. Stupid git.

oversized head+tiny legs+ too realistic for civ= not good

@mrtn- its my opinion, and I aint changing it- dont like it? well then quite franklly, you can blow me.

brbros other units are good- I even make use of some of them, but his romans units suck- its that simple

oh, and like the title says- sorry to piss you off ;)

I think BeBro’s units are great, and appreciate all the hard work he put into them.
Xen-
@mrtn- its my opinion, and I aint changing it- dont like it? well then quite franklly, you can blow me. I for one don’t give a damn what your opinion is, and no one is asking you to change your opinion one way or the other. I -seemingly not the only one- think your making a complete jackass out of yourself, with trolling posts.
That as you may have guessed, is the problem, not what your opinion is.
You apparently can not make a post that does not offend someone. If I dislike an idea or unit, I would point it out in a polite, and somewhat legible manner, rather than so colorfully saying that it “sucks donkey balls”. :rolleyes:

LoL, yes that is quite humorous. I hope that the moderators find it so, as having to do without your witty, original, and trolling remarks for a month is more than I can bear.
That’s my opinion, don’t like it? Well you can shov...
Almost tainted my ‘polite’ post there:p.

personally, i think your all just as bad as each other... expressing opinions can be a dangerous business (wars have been waged through 'harmless' opinions)... and MY oinion is that you ALL (even me) should start 'moderating' our opinions some-what.

(including those who tell others to be careful about they're opinions)

Originally posted by PCHighway
I think BeBro’s units are great, and appreciate all the hard work he put into them.
I for one don’t give a damn what your opinion is, and no one is asking you to change your opinion one way or the other. I -seemingly not the only one- think your making a complete jackass out of yourself, with trolling posts.
That as you may have guessed, is the problem, not what your opinion is.
You apparently can not make a post that does not offend someone. If I dislike an idea or unit, I would point it out in a polite, and somewhat legible manner, rather than so colorfully saying that it “sucks donkey balls”. :rolleyes:

LoL, yes that is quite humorous. I hope that the moderators find it so, as having to do without your witty, original, and trolling remarks for a month is more than I can bear.
That’s my opinion, don’t like it? Well you can shov...
Almost tainted my ‘polite’ post there:p.

perhaps your not use to my posts- I tend to be a real jackass, and this is no exception...

anyway, that dosent really matter to me, what dose matter is the fact your accusing me of trolling- I'm not, if you feel like you have to react, thats you perogitive, and problem dude, but fact it, I'm just expressing my opinion, in the best way I know how to along the lines of what I think

same thing goes with my comment- I odnt mean to be witty, or humerous, or enternainng here, I'm just posting my opion- like it or not, I'm not changeing my opinion or my wording unless a moderator tells me to

Originally posted by Xen
perhaps your not use to my posts- I tend to be a real jackass, and this is no exception...
Xen there arent special rules for you, its bad to post as a jackass so dont do it. You had no reason to offend anyone. Just because you think BeBros units suck doesn't give you the right to say so, not all people think so, and you might offend them aswell as BeBro. You might think it's your right to say what you like, and it is, but this forum has a good "athmosphere" and you dont want to spoil it, do you?

Just my two cent's.

Easy Xen, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Xen, I got your pm and I was considering making this unit as my fantasy units don't get much response. However, after reading this thread I'll have to decline. The unit creators on this forum work very hard. Some are better than others, but they all work hard nontheless. I've worked hard to put myself similar status to those like Bebro, Utah, and Kinboat, who were doing this long before I came along and I don't want to offend them by supporting someone who blatantly says that one's units suck. I thank you for the compliments to my units, but I'll have to decline here. People here like Yoda, mrtn, PC highway, and Dom Pedro have always been friendly and supportive to everyone. I think I'll stick with them.

hwat has been said has been said- I dont veiw it as proper to change my posts to cover what happend, I'll stop being such an ass, but it dosent stop the fact that I do, and will contiue to think hos units -in the case of the roman units, and none others,as I have treid to point out- suck

(it is cimbri, and cimbri only who you have to thank for convincieng me)

@yoda- your right, there arnt any special rules- but what you fail to see is the fact I havent broken any, its all of you who are the prudes who get offended by the word "sucks" not my fault- the word comes up alot in the average junior highschoolers vocabulary- didnt mean to offende him, or you guys, but its not my fault you seem to think you have any kind of authority what so ever in these forums- you dont, and neither do I- if the mods tell me to stop, then I'll stop, as it is, I'll back down, but thats just because I'm tired of this crap- I'd rather have the unit made- so I, and anyone else who wants it can enjoy it then push my own thoughts on the subject of weather or not saying a guys work "sucks" is offending or not- sure they are his work, and sure they have been enjoyed by many, but in comparisons to others work, you cannot hide the fact that his roman units are sub-par, by-far at best.

Originally posted by Xen
hwat has been said has been said- I dont veiw it as proper to change my posts to cover what happend, I'll stop being such an ass, but it dosent stop the fact that I do, and will contiue to think hos units -in the case of the roman units, and none others,as I have treid to point out- suck

(it is cimbri, and cimbri only who you have to thank for convincieng me)

@yoda- your right, there arnt any special rules- but what you fail to see is the fact I havent broken any, its all of you who are the prudes who get offended by the word "sucks" not my fault- the word comes up alot in the average junior highschoolers vocabulary- didnt mean to offende him, or you guys, but its not my fault you seem to think you have any kind of authority what so ever in these forums- you dont, and neither do I- if the mods tell me to stop, then I'll stop, as it is, I'll back down, but thats just because I'm tired of this crap- I'd rather have the unit made- so I, and anyone else who wants it can enjoy it then push my own thoughts on the subject of weather or not saying a guys work "sucks" is offending or not- sure they are his work, and sure they have been enjoyed by many, but in comparisons to others work, you cannot hide the fact that his roman units are sub-par, by-far at best. You are right what has been said has been said, and no one ever requestet you changed your post. I dont want to play police and threadjack so if you want to continue this discussion pm me.

I'm done arguing- I'm not sorry I said his roman units suck, because in my opinion they do, but in the future I'll offer constructive critiscism instead of using my every day language

and everyone lived happily ever after :)

Apology accepted (if it was an apology;) ). And if you found my post was also offending, I too apologize.
Aside from that, I think your missing the point here. Half the things that are a common part of my vocabulary (lately most of that has been directed at waking up to a cold shower:mad: ) are ten times worse than have ever been uttered on these forums.

Unless most of the people here are under 9 years of age, I can’t see where they would be hearing anything new in the language you used. We all know them, it just depends on how confident ( I would say tasteful) we are to utter them at complete strangers. Your post was trolling, my post was trolling, so who cares? You -in a collective sense- can’t make offensive remarks without calling it trolling, as if someone does they are -intentionally or not- baiting someone to take the hook.

I don’t want authority, I don’t pretend to have it. What you saw me post was simply my common sense. I don’t want to make a habit out of going to unit request threads and flaming the thread starter;). And I can honestly say if you post was worded differently from the start, I wouldn’t have made the risk of raising my post count in this thread.

Our posts will be more amiable in the future, I am sure. If you wish to continue the argument, (or utter any more profanities;) ) feel free to do it in a PM..

That being said, it seems you want another type of legionary, to be used as a defensive compliment to civ3's standard? Or simply to replace it?

cool- it was as much an apology as I could make sense to make ( I think...) and I'm glad we got it all smoothed out :)

as for profanities- I'm sick, I get frustrated, and I get the urge to curse to the point where I would make an old sailor blush liek a school girl (noit really, but it sounds good ;))

any way, as for the unit, well, look at the unit, it has a good deal of things which make it distinct from your stadard legionary-

A)greives, or shin plates are on- these were reserved for only centurions, and up until they were deemed need for extra protection in the dacian wars, and even then, the legionaries didnt seem to want to pay for egular maitencaer on them unles sit was needed compleatlly, so they seemed to have dropped from the kit- at leas tthats the best guess I have at why they would have stopped using them, as the economy was very good inthe time of Trajan, and the subsequent emperors...


B)the arm guards are a really cool feature on them adapted from gladitorial armour, these are what rteally made these guys disting on the battle feild, and made the Trajanic legionary the most heavey trooper on earth until the mid middle ages

C)although you cant see it, the helmts have actually been re-inforced, giveing them added stregth

D)more armoured groin guard, dont know how bad it was needed, but certainlly gave a moral boot- but because it swang freely, our legions would not want to runto fast, lest the pendulum action take effect ;)

E) the armour itself is alo slightly differnt, IIRC

any way, the actual use is to contiue the us eof the legionary into the middle ages, by effectivlly making the trajanic legionary the replacement for the midieval infantry- that way, it would make sense that if civ were reality, as soon as cataphract, the roman knight replacemtn comes up, why the legions would be disbanded, and the only real infantry left would by skoutatoi (as made int he unit by Utahjazz)

a few notes I would like to mention-

A)the civ3 legionary isnt a legionary at all, its a centurion

B)to keep centurions leg ware, and that of the legionaries seperate, a hinged knee joint was added, th eend result, is amazinglly knight like- and I support the unit creator, if any one picks up the unit, to use the centurion as the representation for these guys, if only to make him more knight like

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/centurion_greaves.jpg

anyway, here are soem STANDARD legionaries to compare with the heavey legionareis-

standard

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Legionaries-all.jpg

heavey

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Heavy_Legion_assorted_pics.jpg

*EDITED- had to add in the picture of the heavey legions after I had to restart my computer

Are they the ones referred to as the Crupelarii? Extra heavy armoured infantrymen?

:crazyeye: lol, I dont remember, I'l need to read a book i have on the subjaect again, but I dont think it touches on thier name in latin...

*bump*

looking at those pictures you posted as comparison between standard and heavy, it doesn't really seem like there is lot of difference, just the arms have some armor.

the legs have greaves (normally reserved for centurions), the helmets have been re-infoced, and the design of the armour is chaged to offer even better protection.

you really need to read my posts

What I meant was they don't LOOK all that different, especially in civ-size it won't make much difference.

trust me, youd would incedably surprised just how little changes can have a BIG effect on a unit- the best showing of this would be the cataphracts, by Utahjazz, and edited by Kryten- here is link

as a note, cataphracts are the PERFECT replacement of rthe knight for bothRoman, and Byzantine civs

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68572

Well I don't think those really look much apart actually, except may be a bit because of the shield. The little changes on the legionnaire are more like the small yellow eyethingies for the horse that has changed, nothing as 'large' as a shield adding.
But hey, who am I to complain if some creator makes a new fine unit out of this, the more the merrier ;).

you also have to remember the goal is NOT to change anyhting much- if it was different, it wouldnt be a legionary would it? and th eentire goal of getting the unit made is to increase the legionary type units life span...