I'm trying to put the correct historical starting positions for all civs on a world map, but I don't know where to put the Ottomans. I can't start them in Istanbul, because the Byzantines are there. The civilopedia says Yenisehir was their first capital, but that is very close to Istanbul. I know they originally came to Anatolia because they were fleeing the Mongol hordes, but where did they come from??
If anybody could help me out I would appreciate it.

I personally have them in a start place on the north eastern side of the caspian sea...

but at the very begiinign of there roots, they were, more or less, a sub mongol tribe- yep, origionalyl they were just north of the ancient chinese border, until, like a great deal of the middle age central asian, and middle eastern states, forced out by one of the larger clans, or by drought/other disaters

the turks started as vassals of the juan-juan ( avars ) who overthrew their overlords empire in 525 a.d. a great turkish empire ran from mongolia to the black sea. it split in half in the 7 century under pressure from china and newer steppe tribes. waves of turks drifted west ( khazars,cumans,pechenegs,ect...) into western history.

The Ottomans Turks were one of many Turkic states in Anatolia during the final century of the Byzantine empire. Managing to conquer both the surrounding Turks and the weakened Byzantines, they made their way into Western History. If you wanted to include both, you'd have the Turks start one square Southeast and then one square South of Constantinople. I forgot what the exact name of the city was, but it could've been Yenisehir.

- AAminion00

The very first little dot you see is the original Ottoman State, although I'm not sure what the capital is. As you can see, on a map the size of TETurkahan's, the Ottomans should be about 1-square Southwest and 1 square South of Constantinople. On the perfect map, Constantinople would be joined to the rest of Anatolia, but it should be joined either up/down or left/right (as opposed to diagonaly), so that while units could pass from one continent to the other, ships could go by the Black sea as well.

-AAminion00

http://www.naqshbandi.org/ottomans/maps/expansionmap.gif

Thanks for the input everybody:)
I don't want to put them in anatolia, because I already have the Byzantines and the Hittites there. For now, I think I'll put them here:

Just mix the Byzantines with the Greeks or Romans(please dont kill me Xen!) and add a civ that would work better on a world map, like Mali, Khmer or Ethiopia.

Just my two cents.

the Byzantrines do work great on the world map- in ancient times they are a great representation of Thrace, which existe din the area, and had tribes streting quite a long way up into central europe- for example, the Dacians of Trans wars were the last, and strongest of the large Thracian groups (I guess smaller pockets continued to exist, but more then likelly, Dacia was it as far as Thraceians go)

as far as the ottoman go, I'm telling you, a start along the northern side of the caspian sea is the perfect filler- it stops laot of civs from setteling in mid asia, and forces the Russians and mongols to have empires that actually look somthing liek the diud in real life

when osman inherited from his father erturul, the capital was sogut, as his territory expanded it moved to yenisehir then to bursa right before his death

I agree with Yoda. The Byzantines should just be combined with the Romans (that way you now have a few more Roman flavor units). On the other hand, they are an important civ, and I'm hesitant to take them out, because the other professionally made civ (Austria) fits no better on a world map.

My article on the rise of the Ottomans; also lots of maps...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61532

OK, I basically have 3 choices:
1. Get rid of the Byzantines and start Ottomans at Istanbul
2. Start Ottomans at Bursa, 2 squares from Constantinople
3. Start Ottomans here (I think this is where you mean, Xen?)

Sorry for the double post, XIII, but I don't know how to put a picture in the middle of a post.

There are advantages and drawbacks for each option:
1. Keep same city list, historically accurate empire location, but lose a civ.
2. Keep all civs and still have accurate empire, but very cramped- 4 civs in a 5X8 tile area= bad
3. Keep all civs, not so cramped, but Ottoman empire will end up as the -stan's.

I guess #3 is the best overall, since having countries in their correct region is about as good as I can hope for- if that, with the C3C start locartion bug.

Originally posted by WWWeasel
Sorry for the double post, XIII, but I don't know how to put a picture in the middle of a post.

There are advantages and drawbacks for each option:
1. Keep same city list, historically accurate empire location, but lose a civ.
2. Keep all civs and still have accurate empire, but very cramped- 4 civs in a 5X8 tile area= bad
3. Keep all civs, not so cramped, but Ottoman empire will end up as the -stan's.

I guess #3 is the best overall, since having countries in their correct region is about as good as I can hope for- if that, with the C3C start locartion bug.

You make option 1 seem a lot worse than it is. Once the Byzantines are gone, you can add in some great civs. Examples of Civs that wouldn't waste space on a world map:

the Nubians
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MidPreviewHAPMAD.jpg

the Ethiopians
http://www.casperfusion.com/civ3/leaderheads/images/Zawditu_previews.jpg

I didn't want to lose a civ because I was just putting the C3C civs on a worldmap, not making a mod- but now that you mention it, a couple custom civs wouldn't be bad. Where did you get those leaderheads? I havent seen very many in the C&C forum.

If you think about it, the Byzantines started off in Rome... ;) I'm also thinking you shld drop either Rome or the Byzantines, since it'll look strange if the Byzantines are fighting the Romans...

What's the time period for your mod? It'll probably be easier if you pick a specific time-frame, and only incl civs that do exist at the beginning of that period.

Like I said- i'm just trying to put all the C3C civs on a nice big world map i found, not making a mod. I just want to know where I can put all the civs so I can have a fairly accurate game while still keeping it fun and playable.

It was all just an innocent question! Why does it have to be this complicated? :cry:

j/k

History is always complicated, esp when you can have lots of interpretations for an event, fr the perspectives of different participants. ;)

Back to the subject, I think it's best if the Ottomans start somewhere in modern Turkey, near Constantinople, 'cause here's where they started becoming Ottomans, instead of just being another one of the numerous Turkic tribes stretching fr Mongolia to Europe. ;)

If you take only Ottomans as Turks then you the place should be near Marmara Sea(modern day Turkey). If you take Turks as first Islamic Turkish States then you should place them in Maveraunnehir.( See The Caspian Sea and Aral Sea Map the river with the delta, if there is another river beside it place the starting point between two rivers) If you take earlist Turks then you you should place them somewhere near Mongolians or right in the middle of Asia.

Originally posted by jeriko one
If you take Turks as first Islamic Turkish States then you should place them in Maveraunnehir.( See The Caspian Sea and Aral Sea Map the river with the delta, if there is another river beside it place the starting point between two rivers)

You mean on the floodplain just below the Aral Sea?

Where did the Ottomans come from? Their Mummy's tummys.