View Full Version : Native Americans in 1835 Texas


Mr Black
Dec 24, 2003, 01:39 PM
Iím working on a Mexican-Texian (1835 word) War scenario, but I need help on placement and cities of the Indian tribes. This is for the year 1835. Can anyone comment on the leaders, if they are correct or not.

Comanche (Leader: Buffalo Hump)

Lipan Apache (Leader: Cuelgas de Castro)

Caddo (Leader: Jehiel Brooks)

Coahuiltecan (Leader: these guys were never really unified, so a leader is tough to get)

Most these tribes had moving villages, donít think I can do this in civ, so their cities will have to be permanent. And I really donít know if their villages had any names.

Iím also thinking of starting the Comanches at war with the Caddo and Apaches, is this historically accurate. I know this happened sometime after the revolution.

Minor tribes to be included as ďBarbariansĒ will be the Wichita, Atakapan, Bidais, Tonkawa, Karankawa. Iím not sure if these guys were around 1835 in significant numbers though.

Here is the map of the placement of the 4 big tribes.

The Yankee
Dec 26, 2003, 12:11 AM
Oh, I wish I knew. But I look forward to such a scenario! I'd make sure the Alamo turned out differently.

Ribannah
Dec 27, 2003, 01:22 PM
The Coahuiltecan consisted of a great many loose bands who belonged to the same linguistic group. They were never united in any form. The only name I can come up with is Juan Rodriguez (ca. 1660-1735, not the right time frame), who claimed to represent them v the missionaries.

The Tonkawa, and the in 1835 almost extinct Karankawa, are related to them. If you group them together you could use the famous Tonkawa chief Campo as their leader.

The Cherokee tried to settle in Texas until they were driven out in 1839. They could perhaps be an interesting fifth civilization in a what-if scenario.

Mr Black
Dec 27, 2003, 05:57 PM
Thanks a lot Ribannah.

I think I will group the Tonkawa and Karankawa with the Coahuiltecan.

I haven't done any research on the Cherokee in Texas, I'll see what I can find.

Archer 007
Dec 27, 2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Mr Black
Thanks a lot Ribannah.

I think I will group the Tonkawa and Karankawa with the Coahuiltecan.

I haven't done any research on the Cherokee in Texas, I'll see what I can find.

I thought the Cherokee were in Oklahoma.

Ribannah
Dec 28, 2003, 01:49 AM
They're an Iroquoian tribe, originally from the north-east. The earliest maps show Cherokee claims to Kentucky, Tennessee, and parts of Virginia, Carolina, Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi. Pressure from other tribes, and the white man, made them move further (Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma), like so many.

Archer 007
Dec 28, 2003, 12:09 PM
Right, I knew they started out near Georgia (they were forced off there land after the discovery of gold at Dalogengia (sp) in 1828).

The Yankee
Dec 28, 2003, 04:16 PM
This wasn't long after the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma. Then again, I can suspect many of them just went south to Texas...it wasn't under American jurisdiction then.

Call it a diaspora, if you will...

Archer 007
Dec 28, 2003, 05:50 PM
Right. The Trail of Tears was in Jackson's term, so it was about 1833 IIRC.

Tom|420
Jan 05, 2004, 02:41 AM
Man! I thought I was the only guy on this planet interested in the Native Americans! I finally found a few very knowledgeable people on some of the tribes I actually had never heard of (except of the Cherooke which I heard from the time they were norther).

While I am not the most knowledgeable on the topic, I have a big interest in Native Americain and especially into those which were in North-East (Quebec and Great Lakes).

DBear
Feb 09, 2004, 12:37 AM
You could use the sub-tribe names for villages. For example, some of the Comanche subtribes were the Penatoka, Nokona, and Quohada. You may be able to google for other subtribes.

Buffalo Hump is a good choice for leader of the Comanche, as he is one of the earliest well-known leaders. Other Great Leaders would be Peta Nocona, Quanah Parker, Para-o-Coom and Wild Horse.

Check out the old John Wayne movie "The Searchers" for Quanah's story--one of the most interesting in the Old West.