This is the pregame discussion thread for GOTM27 - The Game Of The Year, and cracker's swan-song as GOTM designer.

The starting saves will be available on Jan 1st, and with me being in a country that sees the new-year fairly early, some of you might just be able to avoid all the fun of New Years' eve parties and play this game instead! ;)

Once you download the starting save game file and open it to begin play you may no longer participate in this discussion thread.

Please read the features (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm27_features.shtml) announcement very carefully - there are some rules that have been adjusted slightly (including lethal bombard for your F-15 Unique unit :eek: )

In the interim, please share your thoughts on what the American Civ may offer, strategies given the starting location and thoughts on the changes to the rules. :)


Link to game announcement page. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm27_abe.shtml)

Minimap: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/2003images/gotm27_start_position_small.jpg

World Location:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/2003images/gotm27_world.JPG

Wow! Now I HAVE to get GOTM26 wrapped up before the 31st! It looks like Cracker, Ainwood, and the GOTM staff have already put a lot of thought into getting GOTM closer to C3C, to at least get a testbed of changes. Except I didn't notice in the list of changes where the Forbidden Palace was disabled ;) just kidding.

Excellent work!! I very much appreciate the effort and hard work, and definitely look forward to the game! As the Americans, I would expect rapid expansion, and planning for a wonder-triggered GA (that aspect should be much easier on Monarch, anyway). Speaking of Monarch, this will probably be a much slower tech pace than some recent games, especially with the C3C-like changes to communications/map trading. I also for some reason expect islands or small continents, so that there will be use for naval units. (Especially since we are using the Asian flavor units, and most American interaction with Asia was early Naval expeditions). So maybe we can expect something like the Pacific. Also, many of the changed units, and our own F-15, come into their own later in the game,, so I'm sure the map will somehow discourage middle-ages conquest!

This is interesting, communications and maps can't be traded until much later in the game. This will make the scouts invaluable and I will probably crank out 3-4 more before the first settler. The knowledge of good places to settle is a must.
The starting point doesn't look too appealing, so I move the scout S (we still have scouts to start with?) and then decide on coastal or inland capitol.
No winning condition for MP which is fine, the map and the game will decide that for me. But I'm sick of the military approach, maybe I go for histographic on this one :) since it is a historic game.

Looks very interesting. I don't have C3C and I'm not planning to get it anytime soon so these additions are welcome in the way that it makes eventual migration easier. One reason I don't like getting C3C is that it seems to make the game completely different, and I haven't even mastered earlier versions as well as I would like.

According to the minimap, we are playing atleast Large map, so I'm expecting that the naval movement differences will make a big part of the game. GOTM17 was an archipelago map and it was painful to move units with the default slow movements.

Hmm, I decided before last GOTM that I'll concentrate on military victories until I'm good enough, so I'll still go for Domination/Conquest and I don't think these mods will make so much difference, since I was already planning to try to improve my research capabilities. But we'll see how the map and game turns out, that'll ultimately define my victory goal.

>Predator:
>All AI civs begin the game with at least two settlers.
This makes me think about chickening and playing Open, but perhaps that's too lame. :D

Heh, I kinda knew Drazek would pop up here early, one of the faster conquestors and submitters as well. You are already good in that winning concept Drazek.

Now go for space or diplo and show us the stuff :)

I felt I could say this when you say : "This makes me think about chickening and playing Open, but perhaps that's too lame. "

I don't consider myself a chicken or being lame, but I stepped down from Predator to Open to leave me a few veins to pop in real life. The Pred-junk is too much for my patience :)

You're Predator skills are great and the early winnings on conquests/domination win are classy, but staying on top like a few players do no matter what the winning condition is, takes a very different strategy. I would like to see how you fare on those I mentioned...I'm sure you do better than you believe :)

And besides, the games last a bit longer.

Haakka Paalle

>Originally posted by gozpel:
>Now go for space or diplo and show us the stuff :)
Naah, I don't like space. I submitted a space game in GOTM21 (1390AD). I feel that Modern Times is boring. But I might consider Cultural, I have only two C wins: 20k occ and 100k in medal play, which didn't go well.

>I felt I could say this when you say : "This makes me think about chickening and playing Open, but perhaps that's too lame."
Heh, I just hope there would be more Predator players. :)

>And besides, the games last a bit longer.
I always eagerly wait for new GOTM but then after playing about 15h I begin to lose interest and hope to finish it asap. ;)

>Haakka Paalle
Almost, Hakkaa päälle! (coming from the Finnish battle cry in the 1618-1648 war.)

The new features look very well thought out indeed! There will be a lot of new things to take into consideration.

As gozpel pointed out, this looks like one of the poorest starting locations in the GOTMs. Settler SW is a likely move for me unless the scout reveals something else. That way, the river will be retained and there might be room for more core cities. Does the starting location hint that there will be similaritites to the real Americas? Will Iroqious start with 3-4 settlers on predator? Will there be a super-site for New York? Based on earlier experience, I don't think real-world similarities are a priority with cracker, but it can start you thinking. (My brother, who has little knowledge of the game but good knowledge of history once exclaimed "What! Thermopylae is there!? I went to great lengths to convince him that many worlds are better than one.)

I will probably try to trigger Golden age by means of wonders somewhere in the late MA, after Democracy. I will probably go for Diplomatic because my games take a long time, but I may also try for domination, reading Drazeks spoilers carefully...

I'm going Predator for the first time so it will definitely be interesting, particularly with the changes to maps and contacts.

I'm thinking that there will be separation between two or three continents. My research priority will be for Map Making to build the Lighthouse. Research will be at max since tech progress will be slow due to the difficulty and the isolation and since I am concerned that barbarians will be numerous and I would prefer to keep my treasury small.

The possible settler moves are ne and e to the coast and sw and s along the river. All four of these will avoid having a city one off the coast where the coastal tiles cannot be fully developed. I would prefer to settle inland so that the second city can work on the lighthouse. The worker will move w and the scout s,s to clear the most fog for choosing between the two inland sites.

The Lighthouse will take care of the Expansionist half of the Golden Age requirement. Hoover's will be nice for the second half.

Good luck to all and remember, don't take any wooden nickels!

It appears that the tournment and the GotM have been separated, since there isn't a target victory condition.

Or maybe that's because this is the GotY.

Edit: It helps if one reads the ENTIRE game announcement

Note: This game is NOT part of the medal play series, and therefore there is no target victory condition.

Wow, ainwood, does this mean we have TWO mods outside the US? Great to see someone close to home in charge around here ;)

As for the start - looks awful. But the changes make playing in Play the World not so bad.

It looks like there won't be a settler factory immediately available for once, so this should feel more like a random start.:goodjob:

I'm back after an 8 month absence from civ3 and GOTM. Sad to see that Cracker makes his final magic touches to this game, but I'm sure Ainwood will carry the torch on in a worthy manner.

Like Justus II said, I think it will be a pacific like map design. So an aggressive aim for map making may prove valuable. Maybe a bit of piracy with privateers? I'll get C3C tonight and run a few test games, and then I will dive into GOTY in few days.

Scouting down S towards the direction of the river may prove to be clever. The barren start location sure suggest a better area close by...

Edit: After reading some around I see that C3C is not included in GOTM27. I'm not surprised though seeing the huge step it was to include PTW into GOTM.

After my last several disappointing GOTM's I'm just glad for the lower level of difficulty. I'm going to start the settler where he stands and go exploring.

I expect this to be Cracker's Magnus Opus.

Well as the game is on Monarch I might give it a go at "open" level but I still am only about half up (or down) in the pack, although having a warrior named "Lighthorse Harry" might be worth staying at "conquest"!

cracker loved being guided by history, whether in his maps, civ placement, rivals or in his civs' attitudes (e.g. the other "Middle Eastern" civs in the Arab gotm not being aggressive with the Arabs).

If my memory is right, the early settles in America had it pretty rough in their first site (although nothing compared to the first European settlers in what is now Canada). So, I think that cracker may be following that with the quality of our first city placement and therefore I don't expect great resources just under the fog. I think I can detect a slight bump SE, regardless though I will send my scout S, SE along the river and if naught I will comtemplate settling in place (although Megalou and in particular HookEmHorn has a good point about the wasted coastal tiles) unless I decide on Lighthorse and it finds me something to the NW.

I like the idea (Gozpel) of pumping out three more scouts as we shouldn't be troubled by barbarians for a bit and our contacts and maps will be slower.

Raging barbarians are a pain but they can be managed.

I wonder what surprises lie in store for us... or rather what surprise lies in the Christmas "cracker"? (Apologies if this pun is too North American centric!)

I played a couple of test games using a modded PTW and giving 3 settlers to every AI. With a 5-turn settler factory I was easily on par with AI expansion wise, although I didn't manage to get the best AA wonders (focused on FB though). It would be nice to get the Great Lighthouse and Pyramids, for example, and trigger GA just when entering MA. In MA I had to slowly hand build Leonardo's, because all AI were so lagged behind already. Higher level is much nicer, when you just grab wonders build by others. Got MT in around 200AD, all AIs having only spearmen and lonely pikemen.

So this should'nt be so bad even on Predator unless we have no settler factory and all neighbours start with atleast 3 settlers.

I've been pondering the wonder choices for triggering a Golden Age, preferably after the Ancient Age. The only relevant wonders in the Medieval and Industrial Ages are Magellan, Copernicus and Hoover, and it turns out there are very few options.

A late Industrial Golden Age could be triggered by Hoover, but the Golden Age is an opportunity to accelerate infrastructure and boost research, and late Industrial feels too late for this phase. A late Medieval Golden Age can be primed by the Great Wall, Hanging Gardens or Pyramids and triggered by Magellan or Copernicus.

As I never build walls I can't see myself building a Great one. Republic looks more attractive now with its modded unit support - I've never been a great fan before - so I may not even want Monarchy for the Hanging Gardens. I guess that narrows down my primary target to the Pyramids, with the Hanging Gardens as a contingency. Depending on the map and ultimate objective, Copernicus or Magellan would then be the trigger.

I appreciate your thoughts Alan. One gambling possibility is to make sure that our neighbors have Masonry early through trading and then hope they build the Pyramids for us. Asserting our Manifest Destiny to claim that city would allow the Industrial part of the ticket to be punched for when the next Wonder is built.

I'm convinced that the Great Lighthouse is a high priority since it will be a long time before contacts and maps can be traded so I'm going to focus on that.

If my initial explorations (scout S,S; worker w) don't show something good, I'm tempted to move my settler east. The Mediterranean package of added terrain bonuses included several good coastal ones and they really haven't been highlighted yet. The Chespeake Bay on which the real Washington sits is rich in oysters and fish. That move would make a palace jump more attractive.

Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing.
Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)

Huts can give Predator players advantage by popping settlers because of others having 2+ cities at the beginning. In 3 test games, I got varying results: 2 settlers and a city; a city; just tech and gold. I hate this luck factor. I also got zero leaders in those test games, so I'll definitely prepare early for a palace jump.

Originally posted by HookEmHorns
I appreciate your thoughts Alan. One gambling possibility is to make sure that our neighbors have Masonry early through trading and then hope they build the Pyramids for us. Asserting our Manifest Destiny to claim that city would allow the Industrial part of the ticket to be punched for when the next Wonder is built.


I have almost always triggered golden ages with units, so I am ignorant on this subject, but assumed you had to build wonders yourself to get a golden age. Is it OK to capture them instead?

Originally posted by Offa


I have almost always triggered golden ages with units, so I am ignorant on this subject, but assumed you had to build wonders yourself to get a golden age. Is it OK to capture them instead?

My understanding from the boards (though I have not experienced it) is that if you capture the needed wonders you don't get the Golden Age then, but you will when you build your next wonder. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Originally posted by HookEmHorns


My understanding from the boards (though I have not experienced it) is that if you capture the needed wonders you don't get the Golden Age then, but you will when you build your next wonder. Can anyone confirm or deny?
The majority of posts I have seen on the subject say that's the case, but I've no experience to confirm it. The theory is that whenever you build a wonder the software scans all the wonders you currently own and checks to see if you now have enough for your Golden Age. It doesn't do the check at the time of a capture. Seems reasonable. That would widen the options as you could capture Ancient Age wonders to complete the set, then trigger the Golden Age with another wonder when you want it.

I understand the attraction of the Lighthouse, as it dramatically improves ocean travel, mainly because voyages can start and end at sea. With the extra movement point as well, a galley can cross 4 extra ocean tiles safely. Hmmm ... I really don't want to wait until Hoover for a Golden Age. Gambling on a convenient and accessible neighbour to build your other wonder seems a bit optimistic, but there are three possibilities so maybe it's worth the risk.

@ Offa

There was a good (and thorough) discussion of this in the pregame gotmXXIV - Korea thread, I believe (or the gotm XXIV speculation thread). The short answer is that as long as you control at least two wonders that meet your civ characteristics, but you MUST build a wonder (could be one of the two required, or not) the game will run a check to see if you have met the requirements and if you have, voila: GA!

Don't forget that our UU now has lethal bombard but that would be a very lage Golden Age trigger.

To follow on AlanH's commentary, the following are Expansionist wonders:

Colossus (AA); Great Lighthouse (AA); Copernicus' Observatory (MA); Magellan's Voyage (MA); and SETI Program (MdnA).

Industrious wonders are:

Pyramids (AA); Great Wall (AA); Hanging Gardens (AA); Hoover Dam (IA); and Manhattan Project (MdnA).

There are plenty of opportunities to trigger a GA in the AA, but our productive capacity is not that powerful at that point.

Supposing that we have an Industrious Wonder from the AA then the earliest we could trigger a GA would be late in the MA with Magellan's or Copenicus'. This would be a good way to spring into the IA.

My preference would be though to prepare for Hoover through the Theory of Evolution jump and a prebuild. I have done that three times now in tests and a gotm and it is brilliant. Your productive capacity is way up there as you probably have a factory with hydro capacity combined with the effects of a GA! The down side is that it is a long way to the middle of the IA to wait but my games always go into the IA so it isn't that bad.

Anyway, my two cents worth.

I agree that seafaring will be a big part of this game, and don't expect a crowded starting continent. For this reason, I will build no more than two scouts (for a total of three). Contact with the other civs will come soon enough, and even two scouts is enough to map out where to settle in the short- and long-term. Popping huts is the only advantage to building more scouts, but with the Iroquois also having scouts, the Aztecs JWs, and the fast starts of the Predator AI civs, I don't expect to find any far-off huts, anyway.

Early expansion should be interesting. The Aztecs shouldn't be too much trouble, and if there is a third AI civ on the continent, I expect them to be relative pushovers as well. On the other hand, fighting the Mounted Warriors of a Predator-enhanced Iroquois Nation doesn't sound like much fun. I have yet to decide whether I'll settle for peaceful co-existence until the Middle Ages, or try to overwhelm them with a horseman blitzkrieg and (if possible) quick resource capture. It'll probably depend on how good a trading partner the Iroquois are.

I intend to shoot for a medieval GA, regardless of what victory condition I settle on, as building fast banks and universities is usually of more value to me than fast factories and hospitals. This complicates my wonder selection. I agree that the Lighthouse will be key, as it may be the only way to have global before the late Middle Ages, even if those contacts are worth less in a Monarch game. The only problem with it is how to trigger a medieval GA. The Pyramids are tempting, even with an expansionist civ, and I wouldn't gamble on a continental neighbor building it.

I don't think I'll go for a space victory, as moving synthetic fibers to robotics slows the victory date, and I doubt the Jason scoring system accounts for this.

I do have one question about one of the rules changes mean, as I know next to nothing about C3C: what is the Seafaring trait?

Just a note:

Everyone should pay particular attention to the changes that are being made for this game. Some are pretty drastic, and I don't think everyone has viewed them all.

See the changes (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm27_features.shtml)

I think the fact that there are such large changes to normal gameplay should be much more emphasized on the game preview page. And just my two cents, I don't really like the changes either. There are too many too fast. We will be playing nearly a completely different game here.

Hergrom

Yes, it is definitely worth reviewing that list of changes!

I don't agree that this is too many changes, because the changes make CivIII/PTW the same as Conquests in the areas they affect.

I think this is a good thing - for people who have installed Conquests, this will increase the appeal of still playing this GOTM; for people who haven't installed Conquests this will give them some feel for the differences in the newest version of Civ.

There was a Tournament game in season 4(?) where you STARTED in the Modern Era and the idea was that you'd have to use units all the best players never get to use at all. A guy by the name of 'cracker' won the game in the Veteran Division in an obscenely short amount of time--but the AI play was very 'broken' due to having so many Wonders to choose from at the start.


[cracker hat]

From reading all the changes, I suspect that this game is designed to force us into the Modern Era to get the win. We'll be stuck over here on an island with NO settler factory possible anywhere (or at least not anywhere close to the start) and only one neighbor while the AI will all be buddies 'over there'--though probably on two or three different island continents to keep contacts from being traded.

However, the AI will be luxury rich and we'll have one or two at most, so they'll get a boost that way, too. Critical resources will NOT be available on our home continent so we'll have to island hop to obtain the ones we need to build the next unit to get the next resource...

For most players, by the time we catch up the Modern Era will be upon us and we WILL have a chance to use Naval Power with Fighter cover (to keep from being sunk while invading!) and even Helicopters and Bombers instead of ignoring them as usual.

[/cracker hat]


In any case, I think I'll have fun and that I'll also do about the same as always--since I'm not a 'bleeding edge' player.


==edit====

Or then again, maybe Sir Pleb is right and this is all just to emulate Conquests! Who are you gonna believe, me or Sir Pleb? :crazyeye:

The rule changes are going to make the naval game a lot more important.

Consider:

1. Suicide galleys are more important than ever because of the late map-trading date. Put a scout on every suicide galley and soon you will know much more about the world than the AIs. As far as I know, the AIs never send suicide galleys!

2. The offenisve stats of Frigate and Ironclad are much improved, esp. Ironclad.

3. Marines have an advantage over Infantry (!!!)

I think port cities will be important--I am tempted to move the settller to the coast (I know, I Know, that not only goes against the consensus, but is probably wrong, too--maybe city 2 or 3 will be coastal instead).

By the way, if Cracker has made a historically-based (or morphed) map, the Americans are going to have to discover the "Old World". With all due respect to Prime Minister Hugh Grant, let's see who colonizes whom (just kidding and the movie was better than the NYT review).

My scattered pre-game thoughts:

Opening Moves

We're obviously short of food initially.

One bit of good news: If our worker irrigates immediately on the start tile, and we move the settler one step, our first growth will occur at the same date as if we settle immediately and move the worker instead. So moving our settler one step at the start costs two shields and two gold but does not cost any food.

I plan to begin by moving the scout south. Depending on what he sees he'll go south again or east following the river (or perhaps even west if a reason for such a move appears.) If the scout doesn't see any bonus tile(s) I'll move the settler SW, to stay on the river but reveal one more tile. And if there's still no sign of a reason to move the settler further after this date, then I'll have the worker start irrigating. Next turn the scout will explore a bit more before I finally commit the settler.

Effect of the Modified Rules

I'll just list the modified elements which seem most important to me here.

1) The biggest change is that we'll get much further into the game before being able to trade contacts or maps.

This means that exploration is more important than ever. The more Civs your exploring units meet, the more trade opportunities you'll have, and the less it will cost to get techs which are already known to multiple AIs.

Exploration is also important for maps. You need world knowledge and until well into the Middle Ages you have to get it yourself. And when map trading becomes possible, the initial value of your maps depends on what you've explored.

2) Be careful about Republic. With a very small military+worker force, Republic can actually be cheaper than it previously was, because there's a bit of free unit support. But if your military+worker force grows very large, Republic can become painfully expensive.

If you are going for Republic early then I recommend:
a) Keep your unit count low. We have the advantage of being industrious, so the map may allow us to forge ahead with less workers than usual. Of course any workers you can get from the AIs don't require support, and because we're industrious they're quite useful, so try to get them in trades.
b) Build a lot of towns and grow them to cities where possible, to increase free unit support.

Much later in the game, if you've been expanding aggressively, Republic shouldn't be a problem. Once you have a lot of towns and cities you'll be able to support a good number of units at no cost, better than before :)

3) "Seafaring Civs may exist in your game"! I think that such a Civ is likely to have modified units with better water movement. The possible (probable?) existence of such Civs implies a couple of things:
a) We're probably not on a Pangaea map.
b) We probably won't get exclusive over-seas contacts. (Not that exclusivity matters as much with the delayed trading of contacts.) A seafaring Civ with extra water movement might be able to cross safely where other Civs can't.

4) I think that the AIs cannot be counted on to prioritize research of Writing and Map Making as heavily as usual.

5) The Great Wall may actually be useful now depending on the situation :)

6) Depending how things unfold, Marines and many sea-going units may be more useful than we're used to.

Research

I plan to start with research at zero, on Ceremonial Burial so that I block that cheapest of techs from discovery in a hut.

When I learn Alphabet (from a hut or a trade) I'll probably start actively researching Writing at that time. (I'll stay at zero research a bit longer if it seems likely that a lot of huts are still available.) I want to hurry down the Writing path toward Republic. At Monarch level I don't expect the AIs to be a lot of help in research. I'll pick up side-techs from them in trade of course.

Wonders

At Monarch level it should be possible to build some Ancient wonders. (Though I am wary of the warning we've had that this won't be a cake-walk - perhaps some AIs will start quite strong and snag the Ancient wonders.) I'm not sure which ones I'll go for, if any. If I do go for any, Pyramids will be high on my list.

My initial thinking is that the combination of Lighthouse and Pyramids, if possible to build both, could be best for triggering a Golden Age. But since I do want to leave Despotism before the GA this will depend on research speed to Republic vs. when someone discovers Map Making and starts the race for Lighthouse. The alternative to this approach will I think be Copernicus' instead of Lighthouse.

Warfare

Too early for me to decide. If a great opportunity for a minor early war appears, at Monarch and with a food poor start, this might be a good map to take it. Or it might be better to expand and hold off on war until either Knights or Cavalry. If waiting till Cavalry, doing fast and highly targeted research will be important.

One thing to be especially wary of: It seems likely that Iroquois will be a neighbor. If they are, once they get horses connected be wary of them!

Miscellaneous

I haven't decided on my goal in this game yet. I'll wait till a while after starting, so I won't be going for 20K culture :) If I think I have time for it I'll probably go histographic on this one since I haven't done that in quite a while, and because it will ensure that I see all of the map and whatever special treats it contains.

I think one very important rule while playing this one will be "stay flexible!" This is Cracker's GOTY and he's been thinking about it for a long time. I expect it will have some interesting elements. In some cases we may have to adapt our plans to avoid being pummeled, and in other cases we may be presented with significant opportunities if we adapt to take advantage of them.

See you in the spoilers!

SirPleb, I already stated I maybe would be going for histographic!

Darn, now I have to find another winning condition :)

Now we're up for a grand finale... I can only expect the best of Cracker's contributions, and plenty os easter eggs!

I like Sir Pleb's idea of irrigating the start, and moving S or SW. I'll probably move the scout N, but I've not firmly decided. I expect this is a huge continents map, with us starting near to Jamestown, but we'll have to see. I'm heading for republic.

Good luck to all!

Well, I haven't seen any "official" announcement, but it looks like Ainwood wasn't kidding about New Year's New Zealand time, as the save is available for download!! Good luck everyone, I know what I'll be doing tonight!

As i'm a newbie to gotm (having only played 2 games) i might be wrong here, but in the games i've played there havent been any huts (none that i've found anyway). How come some think there will be any on this map?

Edit: Sorry for the double post. Adjusting to a new browser.

Originally posted by Salte
... in the games i've played there havent been any huts (none that i've found anyway). How come some think there will be any on this map?
This has varied in Cracker's maps - some have had considerably more huts we could reach than others. The one thing which has been consistent is that he's never had goody huts near the start position. Those are the ones which can be a large luck factor and imbalancing - a game that gets a settler from a hut in 3950BC is in a different universe than one which gets a tech from the hut. So it makes sense to me that he never has huts near the start.

I'm thinking there's a good chance he's left some huts around this time, once we put some distance between our scout(s) and the start position, because we're playing an expansionist Civ. But there's no certainty in this nor in other guesses such as the majority guess that it will be continents. I'm hoping to finally get started tonight and discover some of the answers! :)

>GOTM27 features: The Great Wall Wonder: now gives free walls in all your towns/cities on the continent

Does this mean additionally to bonuses it normally gives?

SirPleb, what ending date are you shooting for? Just wondering. :)

Originally posted by Drazek
>GOTM27 features: The Great Wall Wonder: now gives free walls in all your towns/cities on the continent

Does this mean additionally to bonuses it normally gives? I believe so, yes. :)

That really gives the great wall a new lease on usefulness. The only problem I see is that the AI will most likely snag it in the big pyramids wonder cascade that goes up to the hanging gardens. That could be a problem, all those AI cities will become very hard to conquer with swordsmen and archers. :(

Originally posted by Affirmative
SirPleb, what ending date are you shooting for?
I'm still having trouble getting a starting date :lol:

If I have time for a milked game then 2050AD (with apologies to gozpel :) ) Otherwise, no target in mind yet.

I've nearly finished GOTM26 (aiming for tomorrow, the 6th, so I'll have another day if need be), and should be starting on the GOTY shortly after. (Yay!!) I'll only have a little over 3 weeks to finish the GOTY, so I plan to build a small compact civ, minimize warfare as much as possible, and probably go for Culture20K or UN victory condition.

There was a Strategy and Tips thread regarding adding the worker back in to the starting city to build a Settler faster. In that thread I stated that the Americans are the best civ to try this with (Industrious allows you to improve more tiles before joining the worker, and Expansionistic allows you to have some scouting capability without building any additional units.) Anyway, I may attempt doing this if nothing else looks more appealing; this is a fairly food-poor start, and joining the worker will allow a 2nd city much sooner than the food growth would otherwise permit.

Having a river is a god-send; otherwise, you'd probably have to trek in some random direction to more fertile tiles. The industrious worker can irrigate pretty quickly allowing at least a minimal growth rate. And the Monarch level will allow fairly quick research relative to the AI; the river is a definite bonus here. I'll have to assess whether I do minimal or maximal research, but either one should work okay. Unless the scout reveals something else really soon, this spot is adequate.

I haven't really thought through all the Conquests-type mods in this Game. I suspect that contacts will take a while to develop (much like the Carthage GOTM), and moving the Contact and Map trading to the MidAges will change much of the early trade dynamic that was such a major focus for the early AA. Things are definitely shaken up :) so I plan to be as flexible as I can.

More on Page 3 of Spoiler1

I'll be starting my game on the 7th. As I've mulled over this game while finishing GOTM 26, I realized that use of the scout will be radically different from what everyone is used to. In the past, we tend to send scouts or warriors in straight lines aimed at quickest likely contact with other civs - which in turn leads to complete maps of the continent halfway through the ancient age. With the new rules, however, the scouts have to clear literally every tile on the continental map, or risk missing a hut! Fortunately, early contact with other civs isn't as important as usual, since it'll happen pretty fast on its own (I envision Iroquois scouts and Jaguar warriors). I look forward to seeing in what patterns others used their scouts.

I have a problem loading this American GOTM file into Conquests - some warrior graphics file is missing... what should I do?
E

The instructions that I'm sure you read at some point :p say:

(1) don't try to play it in Conquests - use the PTW that comes with Conquests

(2) if you have technical difficulties then Private Mail Ainwood or another staff member with the details to avoid premature spoiler discussions.

AlanH - well, what do you mean PTW comes with Conquests??? Could you give me instructions on how to actually load the .sav file fro GOTM27 into Conquests (or PTW that comes with it) - I am def. confused.

E

Sorry, I don't have/can't have Conquests, as I use Mac. I only know that the locals around here tell me PTW is installed with Conquests - p'raps they are wrong? I'll alert my staff colleagues who are Windows victims to your question and see if I can get a definitive answer. Watch this space ....

As a Windows victim (thanks AlanH :p) I can confirm that you do get PTW together with Conquests. In your civ3 directory there's a Map "Civ3PTW" which contains the PTW executable.

You should open the save with that executable...

Originally posted by a space oddity
As a Windows victim (thanks AlanH :p) You have my sympathy, Space.

I can confirm that you do get PTW together with Conquests. In your civ3 directory there's a Map "Civ3PTW" which contains the PTW executable.There. I knew they couldn't all be wrong!

You should open the save with that executable... First you need to ensure that you have installed the GOTM add-on files in the correct place. Is this uncharacteristically straight forward for a Conquests user on a PC?