I've decided to undertake what is (so far as I can tell) an unprecdented attempt at the HOF. I'm going to try and complete a game that qualifies without ever firing a shot at the AI. Yes, I'm going to make an HOF run without ever starting or fighting a war.

More details to follow as soon as I find an acceptable starting location...

my shortest huge game ever, and highest score ever seen achieved by the computer, was like in the 20,000's by russia. i didn't have anyone in my capital and russia moved a warrior into my territory, i didn't think anything of it because i had only been playing about a month at the time. then they declared war and sacked my capital in like 3000 bc.

you *might* not lose that badly. :D :D :D

You can rest assured I'll be keeping a very close eye on all traffic within my borders. Just because I'm going to refuse to attack the AI doesn't mean I won't put units in their way...

i salute you in your attempt super. I know some good scores can be achieved through non aggression from the descriptions of tournament games on other sites. But it certaily adds an layer of difficulty. one question tho. I know you wont start an war but will you defend if attacked. and if so will you stay within your borders and strictly defend or cross and raze to force peace. Some games I have read descriptions of were played under the restriction of never crossing your own border with an attack capable unit. If you need me too I can try and find links to these games again to give insight on how to best suceed at this endeavour. If you do achieve an CFC HOF score through non aggression it will be



:goodjob: :eek: :worship:SUPERSLUG :worship: :eek: :goodjob:

Artofcybermars, you raise some good points and I realixe I should hash out specific rules of engagement (or lack thereof) before I start the game (which I haven't yet).

Just to add to the challenge and the flavor I'm going to declare right out that I will not counterattack the AI, even if inside my own borders. At no point in the game will I attack an AI unit.

In regards to not putting attack capable units outside my borders, if I'm not planning on any attacking, there's no need for this limitation. As a matter of fact, I may want to use warriors to explore since this will be in Conquests.

Decided game settings thus far: warm/wet/5billion/pangaea/Chieftain/sedentary barbs with 8 AI on least aggressive mode.

I haven't decided yet which civ to play, but it's narrowed down to America, the Inca and the Maya.

EDIT: typo :rolleyes: :eek: :(

i suggest that play with America.And you are very peaceful i think.But it is really hard to get a very good score with that peace.good luck to you about your map and your starting position.(as always sorry for my English)

I usually like America too, but I'm really not sure I want to use the Expansionist trait for this kind of attempt. Since I've decided on Chieftain level, one town cranking out warriors can still pop a lot of huts before the AI gets to them. I can also give any techs I get to the AI to make sure that huts they pop give them something different.

To bo honest, I think the agricultural trait would serve me better in the long run.

Update:
I've been generating maps for three days and still haven't found anything I've played past 3000bc. I'm obviously being very picky, but I think it'll pay off in the long run.

When I have time, I will write a utility that will generate map. Basically, it will work as follows:

1. Sending keystrokes to Civ3 and tell Civ3 to generate a new map
2. Save the map as xyz.
3. Invoke Mapstats and check for Map Statistics. If the map is good, save it to special folder; otherwise, reject it!
4. Goto step 1.

Under PTW I checked tile limits with MapStat and saved them while generating more, but I'm playing this one under Conquests, so MapStat doesn't work (last I checked).

Whenever Civ3, PTW, C3C generate a new game, it automatically saves a copy of the game at 4000BC in the autosave directory. I think it's about time I take a look at that 4000BC save and hopefully I will be able to determine the domination limit based on that.

I'm pretty anal about city numbering and grid layouts. I may see if there's a correlation between MapStats wrong numbers, actual tile count and the dominatio percentage on the new victory screen.

I think going chieftain is the only viable choice you have. still plenty of wggle room on that board. And the other levels may prove too difficult to expand large enough to milk to an score without polishing your swords, Again i salute you. Not only are planning to monger peace on large scale you have tied your hands securely to be uber peacenik. I foresee much action as the sheep in the middle for super. will be watching closely to see how much wool makes it to the marketplace. :D

I don't consider what I see to be a good starting location, but I have a hunch some exploration will reveal what I want to see:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Image13.jpg

EDIT: First hut popped a Settler before I finished constrution of my "first" worker!

I decided my vow of pacifism also applied to the barbarians, just to be a purist. Of course, I felt no compunctions about letting them follow me to AI borders. :)

You'd think that before I decided to tackle an insane endeavour like this I would have done my homework and figured out what would trigger a GA. Now I get to kick back and enjoy 20 turns of wasted partying...oh well, I'll get to Republic faster...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/superslugwhoops.jpg
(Triggered by completion of Pyramids.)

Well, it turns out that switching to Republic was a really bad idea. The fundamental cornerstone of my land grab strategy is the Temple of Artemis. Since this will trigger border expansions in all towns after a few turns, I'm dropping my Settlers at five tile gaps. Because of this, they have to cover a lot more ground before being planted, hence, I have a lot of Settlers out and about with workers building roads.

One freebie per town isn't going to cut it, so I'm going to switch to Feudalism ASAP...especially since I haven't built any aqueducts yet...the milk phase is a long way away.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/superslugnorepublic.jpg

I hate to have gone through anarchy again, but it was well worth it. As compared to the previous post's linked image, this is a substantially cheaper "offense":
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/thatsmorelikeit.jpg

I salute your perseverance in this superslug. Personally I'd never try a game like this on a huge map, 'cause IMHO it'd be a bit boring...

Originally posted by Darkness
...'cause IMHO it'd be a bit boring...
I was a little worried about that myself, but I'm actually finding the expansion phase to be wrought with tension for me. The reason it's exciting for me is that I know once all the land is filled up, that's it.

I'm sure Artemis will culture flip some AI to my side, I'll have no control over that. In a typical game you have two chances to grab territory, whereas I only have one!:eek:

I've decided to abandon this map and start over from scratch. The problem is not the map, but my playstyle. There are several "errors" I'm aiming to correct:
1) The Pyramids. I still plan on building these, but I'm want to make sure my Golden Age is triggered after I've gotten out of Despotism.
2) Government. Republic proves to be far too costly given my opening sequence, and Feudalism has turned me off too. Since I don't want to make Artemis and the Oracle obsolete too soon, I abandoned research in the early Middle Ages this first try. This left me with some cash/revenue which I'd like to use to rush Settlers, but Feudalism is pop rushing.
3) Research. I am going to aggressively research this time rather than kick back and eat completely off the huts. I'll focus on the bottom branc of the tree since this leads to the Oracle, Artemis and Monarchy.
4) Workers. It quickly occured to me this past game I was roading tiles that would have eventually had cities after the expansion phase but during the fill in phase. These were wasted worker turns in many cases.
5) Settlers. I sent about a dozen more east than I needed. This next game I plan on taping sheets of graph paper together on a big foam board and plotting out with a pen when tiles already have a settler assigned to go to them. I should be able to grab territory faster this way...

Once I have a game save that meets these criteria (plus a minimum of two four turn settler factories) I'll update this thread with my information.

why dont you spend some time making an actually GOOD start position? that 5 cow town was made in like 20 tries.

by the way, i abandoned the 5 cow start location in like 500 bc. if you want that 4000 bc save, you could have it. it's a PTW game however. i abandoned the game because of events in the game, so if you or anyone else wants it ... 5 cows ... all beef patties ...

Originally posted by nihil8r
why dont you spend some time making an actually GOOD start position? that 5 cow town was made in like 20 tries.
I do! I rejected over 200 maps over 5 hours before I accepted the last one. I didn't have any 5 cow towns, but I did have a trio of four-turn settler factories and a pair of two turn worker factories. These were all in addition to a two turn worker factory and the three towns that built the Pyramids, Artemis and the Oracle.

Originally posted by nihil8r
by the way, i abandoned the 5 cow start location in like 500 bc. if you want that 4000 bc save, you could have it.
My quest has to be conducted in Conquests as Artemis is the hingepoint of my strategy. Besides, HOF maps have to be randomly generated, so I couldn't possibly play yours and have it qualify.

I do appreciate the offer though! :thanx:

roading tiles that will have a future city is not all that bad. if a settler sent there is within the 3-tile move, then it will still be able to plant down. versus moving into an unroaded tile and waiting until the next turn to settle.

That's a very valid and thought provoking point, Takeo. That, strangely had never occured to me.

Originally posted by Artofcybermars
I think going chieftain is the only viable choice you have.

I did just just that back in vanilla Civ3 with England on a small, 80% archipelago map. I used an ICS build, went for the Collosus (for my GA), and settled like no tomorrow. Beelined to Map Making (for the Great Lighthouse). Domination without a single shot fired. ;) Of course, I didn't play for score, though.

To overcome the problem that once all the land was used up that was it, I reckoned the solution was cultural assimilation. I just tried the same approach using Babylon in vanilla.

I'm up to 1390AD and obviously winning hands down. However, two problems have emerged. One is that I'm actually doing too well on the culture side and with 40,000 culture points and 700+ new points per turn (and rising rapidly), the game will be over soon. The other is that I didn't score a lot of points early on, which is hampering me now, as I was keen to get lots of temples and libraries before 10AD, when I should have been building settlers.

Having said that, the flipping is great. I have gone for an octopus style territory development program, so have lots of AI cities either fully, mostly or partially surrounded. I get one flip every three turns. Corruption is dire but who cares about that at chieftain level. If this level of flipping continued after all of the land was used up, it would make the end-game bearable.

Even so the game is too excruciatingly dull to repeat, so my conclusion is that I could have got HoF as Babylon if (1) I hadn't built temples early on, instead built settlers (2) was willing to sell cultural items to keep the total down (whilst continuing to build them in border cities). Babylon is so good at culture development that I am sure I could have considerable cultural assimilation without having tons of culture points from 1000+ year old buildings. (3) spread the wonders around different cities so that I'm not at risk of a 20k victory

One thing that you are clearly right about, you must go after luxuries. Indeed my territory layout reflects luxury identification, capture and then expansion in a straight line back to HQ. I've got all eight. Four from discovery, three from border square assimilation (rushing a temple) and one from city assimilation. What I'm not so sure about is luxury trading. I have tons of luxuries, but do not want the AI so indebted to me that it attacks, at least not yet. Technically I am very powerful but I have many newly establishged and undefended cities on borders building temples, so would be hurt by an attack, and it is not as if any AI civ has any real money to trade with either.

Well in C3C anyway.

Inspired by Superslug I decided to give this pacifist idea a go. At Chieftain level playing England on a standard continent map with default barbs I have just completed a 100k cultural victory with NO MILITARY UNITS. (a couple of mistakes disbanded as soon as they were produced and each culture flip unit disbanded).

All expansion was done with city builds and culture flips. I traded with all the other civs as much as possible and got to republic and the democracy asap. I spent all my income on science, buildings and a cash reserve - there is loads of money when you have no military.

The score was rubbish (618) with a 100k victory in 1990 hence no HOF post. (I was aiming for a 20K win and the 100K surprised me.)

Still it can be done so the next one will be on more of an eye on the score

@pelmeister: You're very correct in the difficulty being finding the right balance between culture and expansion. That's why I'm relying on the Temple of Artemis. One city takes care of the culture while everyone else builds Settlers.

@Space Cadet: WELCOME TO CFC! :band: I'm flattered to have been an inspiration, but to be honest you took it a step further. I am building military units, just not attacking with them.

By the way, there's plenty of Standard map size slots left, so that game would potentially qualify for the HOF.

Well, after several weeks of false starts I finally have one I can continue with. I've got multiple settler and worker factories, and most importantly got out of Despotism and into Monarchy before completion of the Pyramids. While it doesn't show on the pic, the Temple of Artemis will be finished in ten turns, with the Forbidden Palace not long after.http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/pyramidcompletion.jpg

The Temple of Artemis has been completed:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/toacompletion.jpg

I've made contact with 6 of the 8 AI and have ROP's with all of them. I can't get gpt out of them, but that's not a shocker given that it is Chieftain. I do suck all their available treasury out though whenever renewals come up. As you can see by the screenshot, I'm not researching, so all money is being spent on cash rushing Settlers in the corrupt cities.

Speaking of cities, I have 46. That's not typically good for this date/map, but I'm pacing them out 5 tiles apart. I also have 28 Settlers en route to more locations and 60+ workers doing hardly anything but building roads. I've got at least four groups workers leapfrogging on long distance roads.

I also have five luxuries within my borders, three of which are networked.

EDIT: After consulting with the victory condition screen, I have 9% of the world's territory and 56% of the population.

300ad: Between temple induced border expansions and a settler rush, I've gone from 9% of the domination limit up to 22% in 150 years. Despite dropping cities all over the place, the number of active settlers has increased from 28 to 53. Cash rushing them in lieu of research or anything else is really paying off.

If you can make sure as many people are as happy as possible, you should start to see the points score accelerate from here

Very true pelmeister. I'm saving construction of marketplaces until the milk phase, but I've got four luxuries networked and will have a fifth in several turns. The free temple/granary in every town helps a lot. I even decided rather "late" to try and build the Oracle.

In regards to the actual point total, I'm afraid I haven't looked at it yet, although I should just out of curiousity. I'm more focused though on getting up to the Domination limit ASAP.

Keep it rolling super. did you find the map with Moonsinger's and Dianthus wonder utility?

Originally posted by Artofcybermars
did you find the map with Moonsinger's and Dianthus wonder utility?
No, I'm afraid I generated this one the old fashioned way after about ten days of ctrl-shift-q and poking around the starting terrain.

As it stands, I haven't even bothered looking up the Domination limit yet, I'm just going by the percentage on the Victory screen introduced in Conquests. So, I'm afraid I don't know how many tiles I'll procure.

The starting region was just too good to pass up. As a matter of fact, my last save is 4xx a.d. and I've already gotten to 33%, so I'm halfway to the limit, and that's with almost 70 settlers now en route.

EDIT: I am however planning on using Moonsinger/Dianthus' lovely program to start generating maps for my next game already. Eman's Monarch score has been sitting there far too long, and if Darkness doesn't take it down, I'm going to try (or at the very least beat my current Monarch HOF rank).

Originally posted by superslug
I am however planning on using Moonsinger/Dianthus' lovely program to start generating maps for my next game already. Eman's Monarch score has been sitting there far too long, and if Darkness doesn't take it down, I'm going to try (or at the very least beat my current Monarch HOF rank).

Then the ball is in your court, 'cause my game will be well short of Eman's score. Still got 95 turns to go, but I got tangled up in the scenario's in conquests, so it may be a while before I finish the game....

Hopefully I'll get to my next game soon. Since all I'm building are workers and settlers, I enabled build previous unit and disabled ask for build orders after unit construction. It sped up my turns considerably, although it won't help me once I hit the milk phase...

I'm really anticipating my next game already too. I'm fascinated by what I'm trying now, but this whole not killing the AI thing is really starting to aggravate me.:mad: :D

culture flips was the only way I found it bearable

Originally posted by pelmeister
culture flips was the only way I found it bearable
:lol: I know exactly what you mean. I haven't had any yet, but I don't think it'll be long. I'll post a screenshot later today that'll show just how hard I'm trying to "take over" some Aztec cities...

As promised earlier, a screenshot of my attempt to "take over" some Aztec towns:http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/azteccram.jpg

Certain amount of culture pressure there super.:D Brings up an question in my mind Can an active capital be flipped? And arent you afraid of having some your villages flipped there? Guess that is two questions;)

Third question how close are you to the 512 limit and are all those Artemis powered temples hurting you culture wise. I assume that once you reach the dairy farmer stage you will abandon your Artemis city to slow your culture

Originally posted by Artofcybermars
Can an active capital be flipped?
I wish I knew. I think I once read the answer to this, but it was sometime ago.

Originally posted by Artofcybermars
And arent you afraid of having some your villages flipped there?
Not too worried. It's a distinct possibility, but the factor helping is my overall culture (6737). Sumeria is second with 546. If it does happen, I figure I'll come out ahead on flipping, and I do have settlers out and about still claiming territory. I'm still only at 40% domination wise.

Originally posted by Artofcybermars
Third question how close are you to the 512 limit and are all those Artemis powered temples hurting you culture wise?
I have 142 cities at the moment, although that number is going to go much higher. Once I claim the domination mass I'm going to go back and fill in all the gaps, as many of my towns are five tiles apart. I fully anticipate hitting the 512 cap, but that's nothing new for me.

Regarding the ToA, it's important to remember the changes in culture victory conditions in Conquests. Being a huge map, I have to hit 160,000, not just the old 100,000. I'm keeping an eye on it, but I'm nowhere close to it.

Originally posted by Artofcybermars
I assume that once you reach the dairy farmer stage you will abandon your Artemis city to slow your culture

At some point I will abandon the town with ToA or just research Education and render the wonder obsolete. The AI is still almost a dozen techs behind me, but I'm stuck still for now on research. I will kick science back into gear eventually, though. Proper milking will require railroads and Longevity. The one item of business that will require appropriate timing is Smith's. I cannot take the chance of the AI beating me to it.

superslug, u said:
"Regarding the ToA, it's important to remember the changes in culture victory conditions in Conquests. Being a huge map, I have to hit 160,000, not just the old 100,000. "

So... the HoF is being killed actively by Firaxis, since now C3C and PTW are not with the same conditions....
have 2 buy have 2 buy....;)

Originally posted by boogaboo
the HoF is being killed actively by Firaxis,
C3C hurting the HOF? I really doubt it. Ever since Aeson allowed it I've personally witnessed more activity than I can recall here in the HOF. Aside from that, the addition of the Ag trait is a divine-send to us milkers.

C3C also gave us two new levels, hence more open HOF slots.

In regards to the 160,00/100,000, it makes sense. 100,000 culture was easy on huge maps and almost impossible on tiny ones. In regards to my current game, the raising of the ceiling gives me a lot more breathing room, although in the grand scheme of C3C, this is a coincidental benefit.

As promised earlier, a screenshot of my attempt to "take over" some Aztec towns:

I remember playing GOTM06 much this way. That was using somewhat different rules though as I was able to 'capture' towns through diplomacy.

This playstyle is very interesting... especially the way the maps end up looking. Like the Aztec 'country' being peppered through part of your territory.

Brings up an question in my mind Can an active capital be flipped?

No. Cultural conquest is impossible as the Capitol can never flip.

Originally posted by superslug

.

In regards to the 160,00/100,000, it makes sense. 100,000 culture was easy on huge maps and almost impossible on tiny ones.


100,000 is painful easy on huge maps especially at the lower levels. Had forgotten that Conquests raised the bar to 160,000. Don't have Conquests yet waiting until the new uber computer in April. debating whether to bother taking my shot at HOF under vanilla or waiting for the faster beast.


At any rate the higher limit does answer some of my previous questions more breathing space will help.

Originally posted by Aeson
This playstyle is very interesting... especially the way the maps end up looking. Like the Aztec 'country' being peppered through part of your territory.
I suppose from the screenshot they do look peppered through my territory. What actually happened was that their towns were founded first and then I flooded the gaps with settlers and kept dropping them anytime a border got pushed back far enough. I've practically invaded their space to be honest.

Originally posted by Artofcybermars
Don't have Conquests yet waiting until the new uber computer in April. debating whether to bother taking my shot at HOF under vanilla or waiting for the faster beast.
No PTW? Anyway, just old vanilla would still allow you options. You'd still be able to use the Palace Rank Exploit and RCP.

Gametime: 650AD, I concluded I had enough settlers mobilized to get close to the Domination limit, so I stopped cash rushing them and resumed research. I'm clipping through the bottom branch of the Middle Ages en route to Metallurgy. That way my research time between ditching ToA and getting to railroads and further will take less turns.

I'm snowed in today and my housemates are all sleeping off hangovers, so I'll likely be playing a lot of this game today.

Well, I guess it's time to start the milk phase...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/toomanycities.jpg

Superslug will now begin his self portrait as bleary eyed dairy farmer while keeping his itchy trigger finger strapped to his side knowing one moment of intense boredom could erupt into an sudden military program amd destroy his noble pursuit. The world of Civ awaits the outcome:D

In all seriousness super, things are looking good so far. Keep up the good work:goodjob:

Will the computer give you culture flips now that you are maxed out on cities. If it doesn't this is going to be tedious. Even if it does, you may want to abandon some inner cities, because the culture flips will give you a new opportunity to build a city right on the (new) edge of the opponents empire.

@Artofcybermars: No kidding about the trigger finger. I'm having to blow up cars, beat up people and strafe random pedestrians in Vice City for at least an hour a day just to keep myself sane!:mad:

@pelmeister: Yes, the computer will flip cities when maxed out. The too many cities message occurs when there's 512 cities total. So it prevents the AI from constructing new towns, but doesn't affect existing ones changing hands. A few hours ago I actually had my first flip (Bablyonian, not Aztec :rolleyes: ).

Anyway, I have been abandoning some inner cities since I'm still not at the Domination limit quite yet, but I'm at 62% or something close. :king:

Okay, I apparently abandoned a few towns one turn and didn't replace them elsewhere because I was shocked to see an AI settler dump down and form a city. Oh well, I checked and they'll only get a town or two and then be capped again.

I'm within tiles of the Domination limit, so expansion is over. My preDemocracy anarchy should be over by 1260. My next tech will be Economics since a prebuild for Smith's is almost complete. Then it's on to Steam Power...

Score calc is projecting 5000, but that's only with partial irrigation, no railroad and no aqueducts yet. This is going to be long and boring...

Originally posted by superslug

Score calc is projecting 5000, but that's only with partial irrigation, no railroad and no aqueducts yet. This is going to be long and boring...

Yeh, thats why I take breaks and look for good starts for my next try. The first 80 turns are much more exciting.

Edited for a spelling error

Well, with Moonsinger's new utility, my new starts generate themselves while I'm asleep or at work. The start of a game is more exciting, although I usually prefer the combat phases where I kill everyone. Not happening this game though.:(

For breaks, I sometimes play GTA:Vice City, surf the net and throw my roommate's cat into the ceiling fan. I also like to run over bird nests and eggs with a lawnmower, but the ground's snow covered right now. Doesn't matter though, the lawnmower's busted again, but I'm not sure why.

@ superslug - there's a phrase for what you are doing to yourself, but I doubt the moderator will allow me to write it

superslug, u need to get some aggression out..
My suggestions:
1. Girlfriend.
2. Punchbag (or sister..).
3. Warcraft3 (at least there's war).

Edited for content.

Boogaboo, you do realize I was kidding about the cat don't you?

And you might want to edit the F word out of #4.

1350AD: I entered the Industrial ages. Five of the AI in my game are scientific, so I gifted them all up to my status. The first two got Medicine and Steam Power, and since two more got them, the techs got cheaper. I was able to purchase both with lump sums as well as trading of optional techs they didn't have from the middle ages.

So, my workers are working on the railroad all the live long day...

1455AD: I finally decided to run a score calculation. The projection puts me at 5900 points which would make this endeavour a success. However, since I still have a lot of aqueducts, marketplaces, hospitals and harbors to build, I anticipate a score considerably higher.

I understand this is your main game.
I don't mean any harm to any cat.
Pacificm and anarchy goes well... in my dreams.

Remember, it all depends on which side of the tunnel the camera is on..

Originally posted by boogaboo
I understand this is your main game.
I don't mean any harm to any cat.
Pacificm and anarchy goes well... in my dreams.

Remember, it all depends on which side of the tunnel the camera is on..
:confused: :( What the hell?! That's too esoteric to be spam but I really don't get it.

the cat from a few messages ago..

And.. people with no government (anarchy) when everyone is peaceloving (pacifists) is a perfect combination, but "in my dreams" since it is very unrealistic..

I didn't mean 2 spam u..
I didn't mean 2 make u cry.

Oh, that cat! Sorry. That might have only been a few posts ago, but it was also a couple of days ago....

1520AD: Railing/irrigation of all currently internal tiles is complete. My workers are now irrigating/railing unclaimed territory. When I had ToA still active, some coastal cities borders pushed rather far into the water, so I'll have more land tiles after the reposition.

I'm researching Steel, so I went ahead and set all towns to be abandoned (all but 4 :eek: ) to make Settlers. Since most will take 30 turns to complete, I'm hoping to have them just a turn or two before Longevity.

Longevity is more than 7 techs away, but by gifting up the Scientific civs, I'm hoping to save a tech or two.

Among the four towns not to be abandoned are my 'critical' wonders: Pyramids, Hoover, Smiths, FP, Palace. Three of the four should be maxed out on pop and shields soon so that I can prebuild Longevity and the UN.

I'll be damned if I'm going to risk UN votes...

Originally posted by superslug
When I had ToA still active, some coastal cities borders pushed rather far into the water, so I'll have more land tiles after the reposition.


As long as the water isn't coast tiles they don't count toward the domination limit.

Very true, Svar. And when practical, I do try and take the 'free' sea tiles.

The particular problem I'm facing under these circumstances though is that ToA induced border expansions have covered a lot of coastal water that's not inside any city radii, making them wasted space. I've attached a zoom below illustrating this.

Also, there's still hundreds of tiles of land left unclaimed. The AI can't seem to take the land since they can't build any cities. I'm not entirely sure who was responsible for the 512 cap being hit, but oh well...:rolleyes: :mischief:

Nice screenshot, I can take them but haven't figured how to post them yet. 494 is a great location, you have 5 free sea tiles plus 2 fish. I would reposition 271 to the tobacco tile to get 3 free sea tiles including 2 whales.

It's going to make some tough calls deciding where to place cities during the reposition. Granted there's a few spots like this where I can grab free sea tiles, I also have to take into consideration that I get extra food in the deserts...

This really should have dawned on me earlier, but some of my current cities are already founded on my repositioned grid locations...I guess I won't be abandoning all my towns after all.

how long does it take you to play one turn?

Right now my turns are down to less than ten minutes each. That's mainly because there's very few workers to cycle through as over 400 of them are manually fortified on mountaintops. It's taking less than a dozen to clean up the pollution every turn...so far...

what are they doing on the mountain tops? Wouldn't it make sense to add them to each city for the time being and get the extra citizen points?

Originally posted by pelmeister
what are they doing on the mountain tops? Wouldn't it make sense to add them to each city for the time being and get the extra citizen points?

I definately agree with pelmeister! That's what I always do when I've improved all my teritory. I just keep around 50 slaves to deal with polution but I add the rest to my cities to boost my score.

Gentlemen, I absolutely agree with you about adding workers back to cities when territory improvements are done and I usually do. However, not of all my improvements are done, just the ones I can do at the moment.

You have to remember I have a huge reposition phase coming up where there will likely be over 300 tiles of former city rubble that will need roads, rails and irrigation.

Once that is accomplished, I will dump most of them in.

1665AD: I completed construction of the United Nations. This eliminates what very little chance there was of my losing this game.

There still have been no wars whatsoever. If anyone is foolish enough to attack me, the MPP's triggered will not be kind to them. Of course, by nature of the game I can't counterattack, but I can draft Mech Infantry for defensive purposes if need be.

It really should just be a matter of score placement now, although the Turn From Hell is coming up.

can you do an mpp screen shot?

how many cities are you going to have to move?

Originally posted by pelmeister
can you do an mpp screen shot?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by mpp, but I have a recent screenshot for another thread linked here:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/paperwork.jpg

Originally posted by pelmeister
how many cities are you going to have to move?
I haven't figured out how many are already on my grid, but I'm likely going to have to move the majority of them (200+).

Originally posted by pelmeister
how many cities are you going to have to move?
I decided to redo virtually the whole grid from scratch:
:eek: Mid-turn Domestic Advisor screen! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/wheredidallmycitiesgo.jpg)

Also, the minimap:

I'm betting the F3 screen would be much more interesting. You have 1801 units? How many of those are settlers?

Originally posted by Svar
How many of those are settlers?
580+. The rest of the units are mostly workers. I tried to preserve as much as my population as possible.

Three days of playing and I'm still not done with the Turn From Hell...:eek: :cry:

1715 AD: Longevity finishes construction in the capitol. All extraneous Settlers dumped into population, worker force reduced by 300 as well.

Now it's just irrigate and rail a few tiles, rush improvements and be on my way...

Well, here's how the game is going...:(
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/pleasewait.jpg

You need to distinguish between mindless situations and mineless situations

Originally posted by pelmeister
You need to distinguish between mindless situations and mineless situations
Dude, that's horrible! I love it!:goodjob:
At least it's not as bad as how I'm spending this turn (courtesy of the CFC Humor forums):http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/stfu.php

Well, it turns out to be very likely I'll be doing the old company transfer and moving to a new state soon, so heck if I know when I'm going to finish this game...:cringe:

Man, what can change in a weekend! I'm now suddenly not moving, so instead of packing, I'm going to play my game all day! [dance]

Year: 1872ad
Score: 5089
All improvements considered requisite are completed. All I do now is kickback and cross my fingers for luck...

1938 A.D. Accumulated score is 5621, which puts me at 8 points over the current Chieftain #10 spot!:eek:

This achieves my first goal of making the HOF as a pacifist! :cool: :D :)

Projected final score is 6895!:yeah:
That means I'll likely be topping my own previous high for this level! :hammer:

Anyway, I've just played for sixteen hours straight, so time for a :smoke: and then some :sleep::sheep:.






Maybe tomorrow I won't be so smiley happy.... :rolleyes:

I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather have post#3000 so here I am! Anyway, just thought I'd mention the score is still climbing. As of the late 1950's, I've passed both of boogaboo's Chieftain scores...

superslug,
IMHO you don't need to 'pass up' some of those hof scores. i usually look at the hof for a specific map size, not the 'any' map size. all of the games that i have submitted so far are huge and i would then only look at huge maps to compare my score. i am working on a tiny 20k game and after i submit, i will only look at tiny maps when comparing it. like i said, this is IMHO.

@Takeo: You're talking about the HoF divided by map size, level and victory condition. Superslug is talking about the HoF divided only by level... Two very different things, IMHO

i realize that, was just bringing to light an alternative way of looking at it.

Takeo, you've got a good point, for some reason I've been still thinking in terms of the "old" HOF rather than the new, so Darkness is right in terms of my perspective.

I do like how there's expanded slots available though for the HOF. After I finish this game, I'm planning on playing a few small maps just to fill a few open slots...

If you want to fill any open slots just play any 20K victory.

:lol: :lol: :lol: You're right! I'm planning on a string of games not on huge maps before my next huge campaign, so I may just do that!

Anyway, I've just played for sixteen hours straight

I thought I had some long sessions in the past but that blows me away Superslug. You kinda enjoy this game don't you!;)

Originally posted by Dirty Clint
You kinda enjoy this game don't you!;)
Yeah, CivIII is okay, I guess.:rolleyes: Sixteen hours doesn't compare to the love for I had for CivI when it was out though. I played that for three straight days once.:eek: I had to lay low for a weekend because the authorities were looking for me, but I couldn't sleep because I was afraid they'd discover where I hid my parents bodies. :mischief: Someone just knocked at the door, gotta run...and I do mean run!:lol:

I know what you mean. Civ1 was the first game I ever installed on a computer and I never left the house for about a week - had to eat my parents just to survive. Thats when I got the taste for Chianti and fava beans:p

Sorry folks, this post seems to be degenerating so I will leave it there!:vomit:

Sixteen hours on sunday, another eight on monday, and I've hardly gotten two hours in since. The games in the 2020's and only takes three minutes a turn yet I just can't seem to get home from work at a decent hour this week...

I'll probably finish tomorrow. At least I hope so. I have big plans for the 2051 celebration party. :mischief:

You're near the end of time!
Don't give in to sleep (never thought I'd say that)

Originally posted by boogaboo
Don't give in to sleep
I said that quite a bit on sunday, thinking I'd finish that day. I said it a lot on monday, thinking I'd finish that day...but I'm in the middle of a stretch of ten hour third shifts. Sleep may be for the weak, but that's okay, because I'm feeling quite week this weak...:sleep: (Had to use that smiley at least once this lifetime...)






Of course I am going to try and get up early so I can play a bit.:lol:

FINAL SCORE 6874![dance] Not only was I a pacifist the whole game, there were never any wars between anyone!
:band:

Of course if I had played on a slightly larger map, I could have placed a spot or two higher...:cringe:

congrats, superscorer!

May the light of Elune shine on u!

One last thing:
If anyone wants to do what I didn't in this game, namely killing the AI, here's a link to my 2049.sav. There's only one AI city off the pangaea, but I've placed Artillery and Armor on the island and it's also within range of a squad of bombers in the town of Kirk. For everyone else, you've got several hundred ICBM's and plenty of Mech Infantry you can draft. Please enjoy responsibly!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Superslug_of_the_Under_the_Mushroom,_2049_AD.SAV

I'd do them in myself, but I'm ready to start tinkering around on Monarch.

Superslug, signing off. :wavey:

good job:goodjob:

Congrats Superslug! :goodjob:

Congratulations Superslug. What is your next challange?

Thanks all!

Originally posted by Svar
What is your next challange?
My next huge map is likely to be on Monarch, but I don't have an acceptable map yet. In the meantime I'm tinkering around with some tiny maps on Sid.

Originally posted by superslug
tiny maps on Sid.

Did my ears catch that?
Yes..
Tiny.
Are you pushing yourself to places I cannot reach?;)
I don't have C3C, but u just wait!:goodjob:

boogaboo, keep in mind I said "tinkering". I've been trying for a day and a half and have lost every one...

I don't know if they are given more than 1 settler (and a city) at sid, but it is not aimed to be easy - that's 4 sure.