This thread is for the Governors to communicate with each other and for others to be able to address all Governors at once.

Members of the Senate

Berry: Plexus
At-Large: Noldodan
At-Large: Amirsan

Vote History

Vote #6A: SCRP2-2150BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1547891#post1547891) PASSED:2-0-0
Vote #5B: SSSP5-2150BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1536516#post1536516) PASSED:2-0-0
Vote #5A: SSSP4-2150BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1536516#post1536516) PASSED:2-0-0 (superceded by SSSP5)
Vote #4A: SSSP3-2450BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1534645#post1534645) PASSED:1-0-0
Vote #3A: SSSP2-2850BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1524559#post1524559) PASSED:2-0-0
Vote #2A: SCRP1-2850BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1524231#post1524231) PASSED:2-0-0
Vote #1A: SSSP1-3000BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1516433#post1516433) PASSED:1-0-0

OK, so what exactly happens here?

Discussion of policy, coordinate build queues, announcements... etc.

Also, proposed legislation would have the Senate responsible for votes setting the slider values and all cash requests.

Senators! There is a new poll posted about the rarifying of CoS Sections D and E. These Section deal with Chat rules and Procedures. Please Vote!

THE LINK (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=74099)

With our first chat coming up, has the Senate determined what the slider settings shall be?

-- Ravensfire

Even though we do not have access to the domestic advisor, I would still like to propose a slider rate of 80% science, 0% luxury as, in my experience, it is a good level to start out with, allowing a bit of surplus, while still doing well in science.

Ok, as I posted to the thread in Citizen Forum...

Pottery... 100%
Math... 10%

reasons are in the thread. Well is it Plexus, Noldoden and I determining this. Or just Noldoden and I? I am confused. Can someone give me a link or quote to the senator part of the Consititution?

I would like to know if Noldodan and amirsan are planning on appointing deputies.

Senators,

As a reminder, you must have your slider settings polled and posted at least one hour prior to the start of the turn chat.

Please reference [ulr=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74315]this discussion[/url].

-- Ravensfire

I think the rate we have should depend on our first topic of research. Therefore, I agree with Amirsan's suggestion.

Urgent, without the CoL section on the legislature being ratified, nobody will be empowered to post slider instructions. See this poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74221)

I think the legislation giving control of the sliders to the Senate has been enacted. I request the Senate forumlate instructions regarding the slider percentages so that I can post them according to law.

Here's the only discussion I've seen about the rates so far.

Science research rate. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74315)

There are about eight hours left until the game play session. I think that gives me seven hours to post your slider instructions.

Slider discussion (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74810)

There is no Senatorial decision as to slider setting instructions and I have posted that in the current game play instruction thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1505195#post1505195)

I call upon the Senate to formulate procedures for debating and voting on slider setting instructions.

The Senate is supposed to meet prior to each game play session to vote on slider settings. As President of the Senate it is my duty to post the results of the vote in the game play instruction thread. Is it possible for us to formulate a proposal and voting mechanism that will take place in this thread? It is important that slider instructions be posted for every game play session. I encourage our Senators to participate!

A request has been posted here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74990) for the purpose of determining if the members of the senate are absent, according to the procedure defined in the CoS and ratified in this poll. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73818)

Originally posted by DaveShack
A request has been posted here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74990) for the purpose of determining if the members of the senate are absent, according to the procedure defined in the CoS and ratified in this poll. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73818)

I think your request is premature DaveShack and I've posted my reasoning in your request thread.

I call on our Senators to post their views on how the slider vote should be conducted.

I propose a simple procedure. ASAP after the conclusion of a turnchat, a Senator would post here to begin the slider consideration process. The remaining senators have 24 hours to post their opinions and discuss the issue, then a further 24 hours to vote on the slider.

I officially call this Senate meeting to order! :hammer:

The floor is now open to Senators for the purpose of proposing slider instructions. Once proposals are initiated and discussed a vote will take place so that proper instructions can be posted.

I propose that we stick with our current 10% Sci, 0% Lux, as it will allow for our current scientific plans to be in action while allowing us to amass a large enough treasury.

I second this proposal.

SENATORIAL VOTE #1:

Should we set slider to 10% Science, 0% Luxury for the upcoming (3000 BC) chat?

YEA(1): Plexus
NAY:
ABSTAIN:

Vote: Yea.

Sorry, this may be my last opportunity to post instructions before the game play session so I will post 10% science and 0% lux for the upcoming session per the 1-0-0 Senate vote.

Sounds good, Donsig.

ehm. this might be a bit late, but when the capital is back to size one, we might need to increase the science to 20% or more to get that one bulb to keep the science progress.

Vote: yes.

I won't be here over the weekend, so I will circumvent procedure and vote that slider settings should maintain the status quo.

In yesterday's turnchat I only had fixxed slider settings; 1-9-0. It didn't happen, but this would prohibit me to change the slider to it's optimal settting, without giving up your intensions, so: Please include in your slider-settings a line which allows the DP to change the settings in case situation XXX happens.

XXX can be: citizens are unhappy, Tech can researched in an equal amount of time, but netting us more money etc. You are all experienced Civ-players and DG-ers; you know what I mean. I don't like being forced to hire unneeded entertainers, waste money or even be forced to stop a turnchat because of 'incomplete' slider-settings.

As an example I post here slider settings I posted for a TC in DG3:
Slider
Depending on the outcome of this poll (Trades for Ecology) we'll go for these slider settings.

If the vote = "yes" (we have an extra +357 gpt) the slider can be 70% sci, 0% lux, 30% tax. Do realise that some deal with Persia which nets us +290 gpt will expire in 2 turns. We will gain back 60gpt we are now spending on Russian Gems.

If the vote = "no" the slider needs to be 60% sci, 0% lux, 40% tax.

In case during the T/C the slider needs to be adjusted the decision order is:
1 - Domestic Leader (if present)
2 - The President (if present)
3 - The D.P.

Keep science as high as possible, but don't let the tax go below -50 gpt. Choose the slider setting in such a way that we get the tech in the quickest time, but check if it is possible to move the science slider down if we can get that tech in the same amount of time, but with better tax-refunds. Especially do this when the tech is 2 turns from completion and 1 turn before completion.

Your President,
Rik Meleet

The next game play session is on Sunday afternoon my time. I may have to post instructions on Saturday (with in 24 hours of this post). I respectfully request that the Senate meet and vote on slider instructions before then!

The Ministry of Trade & Technology hereby places a request for the amount of 18g. This money is required for the purchase of some technology from Russia, as detailed in this thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75517)

Thank you,
Octavian X
Minister of Trade and Technology

I hereby officially call the Senate to order for the purposes of voting on the request from the Trade and Technology Minister. The question is as follows:

Senate Cash Request Proposal 1 (SCRP 1):

Amount: 18g

To: Russia as part of the following technology trade:


We get: We give:

Bronze working Masonry
Ceremonial Burial Alphabet
Warrior Code 18 g


Please vote YES, NO or ABSTAIN.

Vote: Yes

SENATORIAL VOTE 3A

SENATORIAL SLIDER SETTINGS PROPOSAL 2:

-Slider settings set to 10% Science, 0% Luxury for the upcoming (2850 BC) chat.

-Should unhappiness prove to be a problem in Deux Rivéres, slider settings should be set at 10% Science, 10% Luxury as long as need be.

YEA(2): Plexus, Amirsan
NAY:
ABSTAIN:

Vote: Yea.

Senators, when voting please indicate which proposal you are voting on. We currently have two proposals being voted on )SCRP 1 and SSSP2 (SENATORIAL SLIDER SETTINGS PROPOSAL 2). Please use these designations to avoid confusion. :D

The current vote counts are:

SCRP 1: 1/0/0 (yes/no/abstain)

SSSP 2: 1/0/0

I vote yes aswell.

Confirmed over AIM, Amirsan's votes are yes on both:

Session Start (AIM - nevermoreand:AMIR1710): Sat Jan 17 15:12:18 2004
nevermoreand: yes on both?
AMIR1710: yeah
nevermoreand: ok
nevermoreand: just checking

Originally posted by amirsan
I vote yes aswell.

You vote yes on what? Please specify which proposal you are voting on.

Two Ministry of Defense sponsered threads and polls

I wish for the senate to partisipate in the following polls and discussion threads.

Military Poll: Unit Quantity (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75905)

Military Discussion: Attack Russia or no? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75904)

The next game play session is in seven hours. Therefore we have six hours to get a legal instruction posted. I call the Senate to order for the purpose of proposing and voting on slider settings and other Senate business. :hammer:

SENATORIAL VOTE #4A:

SSSP3-2430BC

The slider will continue to be set to 10% Science, 0% Luxury until the completion of Mathematics in 7 turns, after Mathematics, the slider will be set to 90% Sci, 0% Lux.

Please vote YEA/NAY/ABSTAIN:

YEA(1): Plexus
NAY:
ABSTAIN:

BTW: When SSSP3 passes, SOMEONE post it in the thread, I'll still be in school at 2 PM PST. Upon receiving 2 votes, this will be a validly passed poll.

SENATORIAL VOTE #4A:

SSSP3-2430BC

The slider will continue to be set to 10% Science, 0% Luxury until the completion of Mathematics in 7 turns, after Mathematics, the slider will be set to 90% Sci, 0% Lux.

YEA: 1
NAY: 0
ABSTAIN: 0

The time to post instructions is at hand. I declare that this measure passes 1-0-0 (Y-N-A) and will post the appropriate instruction now.

I'm voting a pre-emptive "yea" to the next slider vote of 10-0-90.

Originally posted by Noldodan
I'm voting a pre-emptive "yea" to the next slider vote of 10-0-90.

This is good. I hasten to point out that the Senator-at-Large is allowed to make a formal proposal at any time. :D

I will assume the good Senator is indeed proposing and voting *yea* to 10% science, 0% luxuries and 90% taxes. This shall be known as SSSP4 and we all await the votes of our other esteemed Senators.

Please be advised that intense negotiations are now in progress with both Russia and Babylon. The subject of these parleys is technologie trades - some of which may involve outlays of gold from our treasury. These outlays will of course need Senate approval. Please be on the look out for possible upcoming Senate votes.

Also, there is a good discussion about provincial borders taking place now. As this directly affects your position as governors I urge you all to participate in this discussion.

Finally, we are still awaiting more votes on SSSP4. The current vote tally is:

Yea: 1
Nay: 0
Abstain: 0

Vote: Yea.

SSSP4:

The sliders will be set to 10% science, 0% luxuries and 90% taxes.

The vote is currently:

Yea: 2
Nay: 0
Abstain: 0

Note that SSSP3 set the sliders to 90% science, 0% luxuries and 10% taxes once math was discovered. We now have math and have acquired iron working from Russia. Writing is our next research goal. Here are the options with luxuries at 0%:


Science Taxes Surplus Writing in
0% 100% 13gpt - turns
10% 90% 12gpt 40 turns
20% 80% 10gpt 40 turns
30% 70% 9gpt 40 turns
40% 60% 8gpt 40 turns
50% 50% 5gpt 36 turns
60% 40% 5gpt 36 turns
70% 30% 4gpt 32 turns
80% 20% 3gpt 29 turns
90% 10% 1gpt 24 turns
100% 0% 0gpt 22 turns


Perhaps another slider proposal and vote is in oder before tomorrow's game play session. Note that without a new proposal I will be bound to post SSSP4 as slider instructions.

As a citizen, I'd like to suggest moving the slider to 100% Science. We'll have a good amount of gold after the trades, as well as good standings Tech-wise.

I agree that we should research at max, though it should be something our rivals are not likely to get to first.

Senators - Please look at the discussion on Slider Settings (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76128) in the Citizens Sub-Forum. This may well have an impact on your currently proposed 10% Science rate.

The Ministry of Trade and Technology urgently requests 27 gold coins for the purchase of a Babylonian worker. Details may be found here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76524)

Note that should the Senate refuse this request, or fail to act in time, the Ministry of Trade and Technology will order that another deal, result in the acquisition of Mysticism, the worker, and 35g, in exchange of Iron Worker, be made.

So yes, this is in your hands. :)

~Minister Octavian X

After reading the discussions, I have decided to endorse the 100% science plan as SSSP5. I also endorse the spending of 27g on a Babylonian worker.

SSSP5: Science 100%, 0% luxury, taxes, 0%

Yea: 1
Nay: 0
Abstain: 0

SCRP 2: T&T request to spend 27g for a Babylonian worker.

Yea: 1
Nay: 0
Abstain: 0

Procedural point: SSSP5 supercedes SSSP4.

SSSP5- Vote: Yea.
SCRP2- Vote: Yea.

I am going on vacation from Tuesday, January 26 through Sarturday (2/1) or Sunday (2/2) though I may have internet access on Weds. (1/28). In any event I will not be in a position to post instrucitons for the next two game play sessions. I cannot find the Official Absence thread to post this in. :(

donsig

So who did you find to take over your responsibilities, donsig?

Originally posted by Cyc
So who did you find to take over your responsibilities, donsig?

There is no provision in the Three Books (nor any precedent in three demogames) for a VP to have a deputy or appoint a pro-tem President of the Senate. Besides, I'm still looking for the Official Absence Thread... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by donsig


There is no provision in the Three Books (nor any precedent in three demogames) for a VP to have a deputy or appoint a pro-tem President of the Senate. Besides, I'm still looking for the []iOfficial Absence Thread[/i]... :rolleyes:

I don't think anyone is going to file any sort of Judicial procedure against you donsig, for dioing something that is not only extremely smart, but logical, inventive, and intuitive.

Well, then again, maybe you would. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Cyc


I don't think anyone is going to file any sort of Judicial procedure against you donsig, for dioing something that is not only extremely smart, but logical, inventive, and intuitive.


What is it you would have me do Cyc? Point to someone and say, "You're it! You're President of the Senate! You get to post slider instructions that the Senate votes on." Oh wow, since I'm being smart and inventive I can do better. I'll point to someone and say, "Hey you, you're VP. That makes you President of the Senate so don't forget to post slider instructions. BTW, if the President isn't around for the chat, go ahead and play the save."

Is that what you're suggesting Cyc?

If I did either of those things I would file a CC against myself! :lol:

:rolleyes: If I were in your large shoes, donsig, I would use my position to clear it with the president and get authority to go to the Senator/Governor who got the most votes in the last election (would that be the senior senator?) and ask him if he would cover you for the next two t/c's and post the slider Instructions. While he was at it, he could also post the Budget request approvals. As he was in charge of getting the votes set up for these things, he would be aware of the status of each. Why do you have to make a big deal out of everything. Just get a suitable person to cover your responsibilities while you're gone. Any good Leader would do that whether there was a Law telling them how to do it or not. :rolleyes:

I agree that, in the absense of a law, a good leader will act. I do not agree that a good leader will act contrary to an established law - no matter how rotten the law is. Our laws specifically state that the VP is the President of the Senate and the President of the Senate is the one who reports the results of the Senate slider votes. It doesn't say *some fine person that the VP designates* - even one cleared by the President. The posting of game play instructions is of paramount importance to the demogame. I'm not about to take it upon myself to delegate that duty to someone and I do not think the President has the legal authority to do so either.

I'm not making a big deal out of anything. Just wanted to post my absence in the Official Absence thread so I could go on my little vacation with a clear conscience. I have faith in our President's ability to set the sliders according to the best interests of our country - so long as he doesn't worry about getting CC just for doing his job.

SSSP6 - 100% Science, 0% Tax, 0% Lux

Vote: YES

I will be able to post instructions today for tomorrow's chat. I would like to point out that SSSP6 will rigidly set the sliders giving the DP no discretion what ever to raise the lux rate to deal with rioting, nor does it allow the research rate to be lowered when we're one turn away from learning a tech.

Senators - may I request that you consider giving some flexiblilty to the DP in your instructions. As donsig has stated in the post above, the DP needs to be able to manage the slider under certain circumstances - please allow him to do so.

Trust me guys, the DP is not going to be able to take the Sci Rate Slider off 100% without increasing the number of turns to achieve Writing. No compensation will be needed. OK, I'm not sure, but I'm willing to say that if you pull back the slider you'll increase the turns. ;) It doesn't look like we have a big problem here.

We can always hire entertainers via an instruction from the Governor or maybe even the IA Minister.

SSSP6 - 100% Science, 0% Tax, 0% Lux

Yea: 1
Nay: 0
Abstain: 0

The measure passes and will now be posted as an instruction.

SSSPX - Standing instruction - The slider may be changed during the trunchat if the current tech can be researched in the same amount of time as leaving the slider where it is.

I'm not necessarily endorsing this one yet, as I think it needs to be clarified and perhaps another condition can be added.

How about a proposal and vote on slider settings for the last term one chat? I should be able to post slider instructions tomorrow after all. (Decided to enjoy the wonderful state of North Carolina for a day and drive home on Sunday rather than tomorrow. :) )

Is there a term two Senate?

No, but I just appointed TerminalMan90 and requested that he post the Term 2 Senate Thread since there isn't one yet.