I want to create a mod for ancient India regarding the post-Indus Valley India dominated by many tiny nations each seeking to make their mark on the subcontinent. I plan to have many (31)Indian states located in India, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Bhutan, and Afghanistan. Persia and Tibet are going to have a hell lot of barbarians to weaken India's many nations. I am trying to design it after I get a hold of Conquests. Any suggestions are welcome here.

I will need unit help, the rest of the mod is do-able.

Ooh interesting. Indian history has always intrigued me. Can't wait. :)

Civfanatics is so superior to Apolyton. Here I get a reply on the first day I post this idea. In Apolyton I posted a month ago and only had 11 views and no posts.

Cool idea :thumbsup:

What civs are you planning on including? I might be able to help you come up with city names and leaders for some of them at least.

What exactly will this scenario begin? The Indus Valley kingdoms changed so many times and has had so many civilizations it's a hard task. Especially since much of the history is little known.

Are you planning to have flags as leaderheads?

My scenario starts right after the end of the Indus valley approx. 2000BCE. As for leaderheads, that is the last thing that is going to come about.

I need my main help in getting units. I dont plan to have "unique units" for every civ per say, but it might take the approach as done in Cossacks. In Cossacks, each country has a set of units overlapping with another countries and sometimes a unique unit of their own. In this way I can give each civ units that pertain to it for its given time period. I can also shine the limelight on the really major nations of the era, ie. Magadha, Kosala, the Kurus, etc. I also might need to form alot of governments like republic, monarchy. I need to research on others. Maybe I might try using tribal council to start or council of elders.

Another issue is how to simulate invasions with Greeks (Alexander) and Persia. I am going to put a hell lot of barbs in Baluchistan and everything north and west of it. These areas will have persian barbs. I want Persia, Greece as barbs since they really did not stay in India too long till they left. Alexander's Indian empire quickly fell to Chandragupta Mauraya's army. Persia's empire in India falls like the rest of Persia to Greece. Tibet (Bhoota or something close to it in Sanskrit) may also be barbarian. Tibet though didn't do to much chaos in India.
The civ culture will also play a role in this mod. The meditteranean culture group civs will be all Indo-European civs. Asian will denote Dravidian civs. BTW Simhala (Sri Lanka) is Indo-European not Dravidian as practical belief goes.
Finally the mod will end approx. 800 CE prior to Islamic invasionson India. This will make the mod centered on the true "classical" time of India from the birth of the Vedas (Hindu scriptures) to the fall of the Indian states to Persian, and Turkish conquest.

Update, the scenario will feature definately the following civs: Andhara, Cheras, Cholas, Pandyas, Panchala, Kurus/Hastinapura, Magadha, Surasena, Simhala, Nepala, Kashmira, Gandhara, Sind, Karnata/Dakshinapatha, and Kalinga. The north is going to be crowded. The very south will be rather empty. The central area and the southwest will have fewer cities and civilization. Roadds will span the entire area.

Come, on someone post something

I need a few units made.

Elephant archer
Camel archer
mounted archer
Chariot archer
armored spearman
armored swordsman
mounted swordsman

Some of these have been made, a couple of really good ones were done by Dom Pedro. Check the Completed Units forum.

Check this thread for some of those you want:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61630

They're great. Now to convert those Aoe units.

Originally posted by civilleader
Another issue is how to simulate invasions with Greeks (Alexander) and Persia. I am going to put a hell lot of barbs in Baluchistan and everything north and west of it. These areas will have persian barbs. I want Persia, Greece as barbs since they really did not stay in India too long till they left. Alexander's Indian empire quickly fell to Chandragupta Mauraya's army. Persia's empire in India falls like the rest of Persia to Greece. Tibet (Bhoota or something close to it in Sanskrit) may also be barbarian. Tibet though didn't do to much chaos in India.
The civ culture will also play a role in this mod. The meditteranean culture group civs will be all Indo-European civs. Asian will denote Dravidian civs. BTW Simhala (Sri Lanka) is Indo-European not Dravidian as practical belief goes.
Finally the mod will end approx. 800 CE prior to Islamic invasionson India. This will make the mod centered on the true "classical" time of India from the birth of the Vedas (Hindu scriptures) to the fall of the Indian states to Persian, and Turkish conquest.

You might want to make Alexander's invasion as the end point to your scenario. That way the challenge is to unify India and make it strong before the Greeks can come in and exploit the warring states or something like that. I figure it makes a good scenario ending because after Alexander Chandgupta basically unified India after that.

Do you have city styles too?

I like that idea, but just one thing India's golden age is afterwards during the Gupta Empire (~200-~600) CE. half my wonders are from that time period. I'm thinking about what to do. I like your idea though. The greeks and persians will probably be barbarians since they didn't last too long.
Btw no empire in India lasted too long so and even Chandragupta's mauraya empires doesn't last too long. The many different civs should simulate this even if you do sucessfully take a certain region.

I decided the new goal of the scenario is to unite India before the islamic invasion

i can think of a name to this scenario:
The roar of the lion(Indian lion?)
BTW, i think it would god knows how many times cooler if it dealed also with modern india, but i guess that's not going to happen

Do you want any resources? I'll gladly make them.

you want resources?
here it goes(walk with me, her civilleader):
monsoon(bonus, shield 2 or 3+)
Crocodiles(leather)
Elephants(Ivory)
Najas(cobras)
Tigers
cocoanuts

Monsoons? How are they a resource? I would say a penalty...

Elephants come with Civ3. The rest are coming up, and will be included in my resource file when it is released.

they raise fertility of the soil...
besides they only happen on asia, once on india, then again on china. I think it would make a cool resource. But i guess we have to count with CivilLeader's opinion

Let me make sure we are talking about the same thing, you mean monsoons like huge storms, right? If so, how do you guys want me to draw them? Swirling wind?

that's one way to view it. A monsoon is a season of rains, some of them are, indeed, huge storms, but the rest of the time they're just calm rain thet fertilizesthe ground

I was just messing around on city graphics wondering what could be done to make Indian cities, but I really not sure whatt hey looked liked in the period you're dealing with. But here is a REAL quick city with the RON Tajmahal in the center.

Thats great Ekmek, but the Taj Mahal is Islamic architecture, which is when the mod ends. Even if he doesn't use it, I like it very much for maybe a mideveil city though. You could still post it.

I got to say I love the Taj Mahal, but my mod will only go till 800 BCE or now maybe even 500 CE. I am probably going to make a mod for Indian states from Islamic occupation till about 1848 when India comes completely under British rule. I will definately use this city style then. I gotta say do that it looks great.
In response to Boreas, the monsoon resource, etc is up to you all. I don't know i think a monsoon ridden terain sounds more reasonable. Also i like the resources except the naga (not naja) resource. How do snakes help people? If you have a good point why they should, then post it.

Actually it was either snakes or crocodiles, because of the leather.
I thought snakes had something to do with indian culture because of the snake enchanters. But crocodiles is the same principle, it's up to you.

I'll do snakes and Crocodiles.

the snakes also produce anti-ophidical medicine, that should confer them the quality of luxuriy resources.

the snakes also produce anti-ophidical medicine, that should confer them the quality of luxuriy resources.

If that's the case, then sure let's make them a luxury.

I thought snakes had something to do with indian culture because of the snake enchanters. But crocodiles is the same principle, it's up to you..

Boreas, this is a stereotype for India. Arabs have snake charmers too. Also since I believe its arab influence, it comes too late for my mod.

Btw I now plan to create a trilogy, for India.

1. Hindu/Buddhist India (1200BCE-600CE)
2. Islamic Conquest (800CE-1850CE)
3. Modern South Asia (1947CE- Present)

Update I just finished the basic map. All the nations have been chosen. Still need to figure leaderheads, city names for each kingdom/republic. Also the trilogy needs a name.:D

Originally posted by civilleader
Update I just finished the basic map. All the nations have been chosen. Still need to figure leaderheads, city names for each kingdom/republic. Also the trilogy needs a name.:D

Okay I quoted myself sad, eh? Okay how do I post a poll I don't see that option anywhere here, or can I just not see. Does anyone know how to?

Like with my Ottoman mod, anyone can convert to C3C afterwards, also how to do poll in civfanatics? Doesn't seem straight forward like in Apolyton.

There should be an option when you start a new thread for making a poll.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I still can't find that option. All the nations are done btw. Now just need to do a leader list and city list. Map has been made too. I originally wanted to use LouLong's map but it had too many other nations. My map features solely the indian subcontinent. Should post the map itself up?

yeah...
If you tell me the timeline and nations(and preferably cities also)
I can place them all up for U.

dpn't wprry about that. All that's really left is unit selection.

Hi , I dont have much on ancient India but there are some great sites on British India with excellent army pics n info which i will use 4 my mystic+mech mod...
Try looking up Shivaji...
Here is a good site for chronology -- http://www.itihaas.com/ancient/index.html
Good luck :goodjob:

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
There should be an option when you start a new thread for making a poll.

At the VERY BOTTOM -- the last option -- when you start a new thread is the question whether it's a poll or not and a number refering to how many questions the poll will have. Note the option appears ONLY when starting a new thread!

-Oz

Thanks, ozymandias. In response to devotee, I tried Itihaas. They're okay for this. I am using Chanakya's Arthashastra as a resource for units, etc. I have a few sites w/ good maps. I need to post them. :)

try this site
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/India/indiasbook.html

came across it while browsing for Ramayana, has nice maps, etc. see if it helps:)

Nice site, thanks.

There are a few wonders I have in mind, please add:
Kautilya's Arthashastra
Jantar Mantar Observatory
Aryabatta's zero
Ramayana
Mahabharata
Vedas
Buddhist Sanga
Kajuraho Temple
Sanchi Stupa
Konarak Temple
University of Taxila (Takshashila)

Another update:
Most improvement names will have Sanskrit names, ie. Library=Pustakalaya
Temple=Devastana
University=Gurukula
and so on..

States definately included:
Magadha
Andhara
Chola
Chera
Pandya
Saurastra
Sakyas
Kurus
Kosala
Kashmira
Sinhala
Anga
Vrijji
Kashi
Chedi
Chalukya Empire
Kalinga

how about Ajanta & Ellora caves?
or perhaps the Temple of Rameshwaram... & Sabarimala, which is the worlds 2nd largest pilgrim centre after Mecca!

How could I forget those two. What do you think about Elephanta caves?

This thread is now becoming a discussion between the two of us. :)

Originally posted by civilleader
This thread is now becoming a discussion between the two of us. :)

Don't forget eavesdroppers who are learning in the process. :)

-Oz

This thread is now becoming a discussion between the two of us.
Similar to the Ramayana thread i might add!

Elephanta's good:)

Being from Maharashtra, best to ask you this: Should I combine the Bhojas, Asmakas, and Dakshinapathas into one nation and call it the Rashtrakoota, or make three separate nations. In my map these 3 states were powerful in 600 BCe but no existant in 500CE. They were all situated in modern day Maharashtra.
You Marathis got everthing, no fair! You got Tilak, Mumbai, Shivaji, the Rashtrakootas, Tanaji, etc.
Come on all we got in Karnataka is Bangalore, a few temples and "supposedly the city of Kishkinda".
Only UP beats Mahrashtra.

Incidentally i'm originally Bihari(Buddha, Magadha,etc.) originally.... but settled in Maharashtra:D
I don't know if you want to make too many tiny nations...will be more confusing...though you can add the info to the civilopedia.

"supposedly the city of Kishkinda".
Kishkindha did exist, i firmly believe it...take a look at this NASA pic of Rama's bridge

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Rama::s_bridge.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Rama::s_bridge1.jpg

Rama's bridge did exist...... then Kishkindha definitely existed, you should be proud:king:

I think you should add Bihar and Punjab because they are two of the really important kingdoms after the indus valley, punjab being where the Mauryans started and punjab which formed a kingdom that Alexander fought and was forced to make peace with.


Edit: I'm indian and raised a hindu but you can't possibly believe that is really Ram's bridge. You don't think that it could be a story that incorporates a geological anomoly to explain it? It happens in every religion. It's not a big deal just offering a second perspective.:)

Well Bihar is actually going to be Magadha capital Pataliputra=Patna, ans Punjab has a bunch of nations making it up.

Anyway I have no clue about Kishkinda. I don't know.

I take back my statement that this is a 2 man forums. I was high on something or the other when I wrote that. (High on life as my history teacher tells me)

I see. I'm not sure the time frame exactly you're looking for but if you have a good idea i can dig up some info for you about that time period. I guess if it is right after the fall of the Indus civilization around 1400-1200BC then there is no Punjab. If it is closer to the Greek invasion you could put in Porus as a king in the Indus region

you can't possibly believe that is really Ram's bridge. You don't think that it could be a story that incorporates a geological anomoly to explain it? It happens in every religion.

the absence of knowledge doesn't deny the existence of a fact
have you ever seen an electron? But you believe it does exist, don't you?

strange coincidence regarding the land mass and contour, isn't it!:)
It happens in every religion
also, a lot of religions do have truth in them n that's why it happens everywhere.....

I only said it because religious beliefs are not supposed to be discussed in the creation and customization forum. You should go to Off-Topic. Even though we are of the same religion you should have respect for others and not take up space in an inappropriate forum

Okay let's get back on track. Thanks Punkymonkey for keeping us back on track before the moderators come.

"I see. I'm not sure the time frame exactly you're looking for but if you have a good idea i can dig up some info for you about that time period. I guess if it is right after the fall of the Indus civilization around 1400-1200BC then there is no Punjab. If it is closer to the Greek invasion you could put in Porus as a king in the Indus region"

The mod due to its time period will feature all major states at a given time. The chalukyas can fight the cholas who might challenge the Sakyas. The unique units for each nation will reflect their time of dominance. I wanted Porus really Paurava as a king, but not enough info on his nation. It was actually minor in the scope of things.

How is this mod going? I can't wait for it!!!!!

Very interesting period of history.

I don't suppose you have any pictures of the Indian military units (foot units, primarily) that you could post? Not like I can make units or anything, but I'd love to see what they're supposed to look like.