I am thinking of starting a thread on Chinese history. I'll post something about each period per post, fr the earliest beginnings to the present day. After each post, there'll be a Q & A and I'll try my best to answer any questions. Also side-posts about interesting stuff in Chinese history like Mongols invading China, the sea trade with other parts of Asia, the Japanese invasion of Korea etc etc.

Anybody interested pls vote in the poll and if the response is sufficiently OK, I'll TRY to do it; time, will, body and Civ3 willing. Firstly I am not saying that my ver of Chinese history is the correct one or that my memory is that good and accurate. Anybody is welcomed to rectify my errors. I'll also like to caution that my views will probably be biased somewhat. Also it'll take a very long time since Chinese history is quite lengthy.

I'm doing this cos I like history and would love to discuss it; also there seems to be a lack of knowledge of Chinese history among the general Western populations (or even among some Chinese :rolleyes: ).

Anyone interested??? Pls lock in your votes. :D

What is the main reason for the decline of Prosperous China?
Hell if All the period of China is like Tang Dynasty,China would have dominated the world and invinted rockets to go to space in 1800's!

Yes
please
I would be nice
to know
something else than thr basic
about chinese history.:)

I took a chinese/japanese history course at university, and found it very interesting. A whole interesting story that we in the west are simply not taught except as a quick gloss of major events. And usually only those that affected western interests. In any case, it's been years, so a refresher would be welcome!

Go for it SKM! I've been very interested in the posts I've seen from you before (such as those in the forgotten war thread).

I am subscribing to this thread so I will be notified when new posts are made here.

Look forward to what you can tell us.:)

Alright, here goes since I don't have Civ3 anyway. Also can't really play in the office. :( And also suffering fr Civ3 weariness cos of all the reading in the Civ3 forums. Seems like a lot of issues presently.
Disclaimer : I repeat, as had been posted my first post, that all the history presented here is of my own view and opinion. If I make an error anywhere, pls feel free to correct me. Discussion is of coz welcomed. And let's keep this thread civil, light-hearted and cool-headed.

1 General

A few basics to aid in the understanding of the way things were in Chinese history.
1) Chinese history is long; like all ppls elsewhere, the Chinese ppl, society, govt etc was (and is) continuously evolving. The character and even the tone of each period and dynasty are pretty different (as you'll discover); sometimes even fr reign to reign. Don't expect things to be static fr the beginning till the end.
2) The Chinese weren't that peaceloving as some ppl might imagine. There were whole periods in Chinese history when there were rivers of blood and mountains of corpses. Although culturally, the Chinese abhor war, but still war was frequent, whether fr foreign invasions or fr massive civil wars.
3) China is a vast country. It had already reached its present size around the Han period 2000 yrs ago. Some provinces were as large and as populous as France or England. I don't think many ppl appreciate this little fact and how it impacted on the course of Chinese history and why things moved so slowly in China.
4) In reference to 3) above, Chinese govt was 'light'. Although the empire seemed pretty big on the map, in actuality many areas were not ruled or administered (or taxed) directly by the imperial bureaucracy (which consisted of maybe a few thousand officials at the very most). Most of the time, the imperial officials 'ruled' outlying areas with the aid of the local gentry classes. The imperial govt usually got direct taxes only fr one or a few economically vibrant areas (I think, not sure) and also thru the salt, iron and other monopolies.
5) The Chinese is not really a single monolithic ethnic ppl, surprising this may sound. The N Chinese are tall, fairer, slant-eyed and more akin to the Koreans, Mongols and Tibetans while the S Chinese are shorter, darker, almond-eyed and more like the Thais, Burmese and Vietnamese. Also don't really speak a single language although have a single written script. There are 800 mil Mandarin speakers and 300 mil speakers of Chinese 'dialects'. These dialects are just as diff fr each other as Spanish is fr French. I know cos I can understand spoken Mandarin, Hokkien (Fukienese) and Cantonese (great for cursing and swearing :D ). Even Mandarin has its regional variants. The N Chinese Mandarin sounds like a bit like singing while the one I speak is more gruff and harsher in sound.
6) Also in Chinese military tradition, there's no shame or stigma with going over to the enemy's side. Anyone doubting this shld read the Romance of the Three Kingdoms on which whole generations of Chinese military leaders had been weaned. This is critical to understand how sometimes small and unlikely factions could come to conquer all of China. Usually only maybe a couple of ppl were fighting to be the emperor; the rest just wanted security and to get on with their lives, so they were mostly fence-sitters. When one of the antagonists began securing victories in the field, these fence-sitters would begin flocking to him so eventually he would secure enough support to 'win'.
7) China was geographically isolated since ancient times. So she had not really developed foreign diplomacy with foreign nations as equals cos there were no foreign nations of sufficient strength around China. So the Chinese worldview was that the emperor was ruler of All Under Heaven. The difference betw imperial subjects and foreign barbarians was simply that barbarians had yet to receive the 'benefit' of imperial rule. This kind of mentality had gotten the Chinese into trouble pretty often.
All for now. Gotta work.

Next - Discussion
Next - 2 In the beginning .....

2 In the beginning .....

In the beginning, there was Nothing. No matter, no energy. Nothingness ruled. Then there was an Earth-sized ball of stuff, containing all the matter that would make up the future Universe. Then it exploded and the Big Bang expanded and the Universe came into being, with galaxies and stars and what crap.
Then 5 billions yrs ago, the Sun, our Sun, and the Solar System, our Solar System, was formed. And there was the Earth. And then life begun, and evolved, first as single-celled creatures and then multi-celled. Then came invertebrates and then the first vertebrates. And there were fishes, amphibians, reptiles, dinosaurs, birds and mammals. And finally, human-like creatures made an appearance.
Half a million yrs ago, the creatures known as the Peking Man would walk the earth (near Beijing of coz). They knew fire and stone tools. Were they the first forbears of the Chinese? No one knows.
Some anthropologists believed modern Chinese descended fr homo erectus who evolved into homo sapiens in Asia; most believed that all humans (incl Chinese) descended fr an African Eve. It doesn't really matter since this took place so damn long ago that to argue would be pointless. Soon we had Stone Age villages in the territory that would in future made up the Chinese heartland.
To be continue ......

Got you all, didn't I??? :lol:

Next - 3 The Stone Age and the Xia

3 The Stone Age and the Xia

The Chinese don't really have a special ppl creation myth. They don't really have something like that they were the chosen ppl of God or what or that they were created fr the union of the heavenly wolf and heavenly something else or something similar. What myths the Chinese have are rather pedestrian.
The ancient myths go somewhat like this. First there were ppl who lived like animals on the earth. They lived in the caves, clothed themselves with tree-bark or something, eat fr whatever's available. You get the idea I think. There are a lot of variation on this but basically all about the same.
Then amongst the ppl, there appeared sages (basically smarties). These sages, being sages, taught the ppl how to live like humans. In other words, they taught the first rudiments of civilisation. Some were famous enough to be venerated as gods later on. Of note was Huangdi, the Yellow Emperor. He taught the earliest Chinese how to farm and how to spin silk (I think). Then came Yao and then his successor Shun. I think Shun passed on to his son, and so there was the first Chinese hereditary dynasty.
Now this first dynasty was known as the Xia. I think there was some King list somewhere, not sure. Anyway this dynasty wasn't archaelogically verified so ..... I think it's probably got to do with some Stone Age culture in the Chinese heartland region (along the Huanghe i.e. Yellow River) in Henan today and neighbouring parts. Maybe the Yangshao Stone Age culture. Who knows?
Anyway the Xia lasted for some centuries. For some reason, they came to be replaced by the next dynasty, the Shang. Actually I am pretty weak on the earliest beginnings of the Chinese cos it was pretty much uninteresting. :sleep: Also forgotten mostly. So you may want to refer to some books instead on this part.
To be continued ....

Next - Discussion
Next - 4 The Bronze Age and The Shang

SKM -

There was a radical overhaul in the last decade or so of how Chinese was transliterated (written phonetically) into the Western languages. Can you talk a bit about this?

(i.e., "Peking" became "Beijing", "Mao Tse-Tung" became "Mao Zedong", "Chinshurwongti" became "Qinshihuangdi", etc.)

The transliteration was actually a standardization, IIRC. The old way of using a western character with or without the ' to denote voicing was dropped in favor of using different letters.

Some examples:
t'=t and t=d was changed to the two separate western equivalents.
ts'=ts/ts=z was changed to ts or z.
The Q in the new system equals the english ch.
w changed to hu (similar to english wh) to more accurately reflect the sound being made

Why was the ' used in the first place, you might ask? This was an attempt to spell following the generally internationally accepted phonetic alphabet, which has a separate character for EVERY sound made by humans in language.

The ' is used to denote aspirated sounds. Every consonant (based on how it is produced by the mouth) has 3 possible forms - voiced (vocal cords vibrate before the letter is made by the mouth), voiceless (vocal cords vibrate as the letter is made) and unvoiced (no vocal cord use). There are further variations that expand on these base 3, such as aspiration. English, for example, does not have voiced consonants (really!) - we have voiceless and unvoiced/aspirated. Voiced or unvoiced (no aspiration) consonants sound funny in our words, but we have great difficulty distinguishing them in other languages. I don't know chinese, so I'm not sure it the original spellings were confusing because they were incorrectly typographed in the attempt to be phonetic.

ANYWAY, back to the original topic...

I think some of the changes (eg. Peking - Beijing) were due to the fact that the West had greater contact with the southern, Cantonese, Chinese and roughly followed their names for Cities, people, etc. ?
But, anyway, the part of Chinese history that interests me most is the voyages made by Cheng Ho. (yes, I did have to look up his name) The scale of his fleet was just amazing for the time.

Gee, don't know that. Thanks, Sodak, for the explanation. :goodjob: Anyway the new system is now called hanyu pinyin. Also Mainland China has been simplifying commonly-used Chinese characters over the yrs. These characters are called jiandizhi (in Chinese, not sure about the transliteration). Some overseas Chinese communities (think Taiwan) are still sticking to the older, vastly more complicated set of characters and called fandizhi.

As for Eddie, you'll just have to look back here in a long while for us to get to the Ming dynasty (if ever). Once I got my hands on Civ3, hehe, can't guarantee what will happen ...... Also you got the Cantonese part partially correct. Peking, Mao Tse-Tung, Nanking etc sounds more like Cantonese (actually it's more like Pei-Kheing). I dunno. Maybe it's how Westerners picked up the sounding fr the Cantonese originally. For a long time, Western traders etc were only limited to Canton and weren't permitted elsewhere in the Qing empire.

I am hoping that this format will be used to discuss the histories of other ppls and historical entities. We have too many quizzes anyway that it's getting kinda boring. :sleep:
I am interested in the history of Prussia fr the beginning till WW1 and also the history of Continental Europe fr the end of the Roman empire till the Napoleonic era. Anybody wants to give it a try? Pls?

4 The Bronze Age and the Shang

Originally the Shang, like the Xia, weren't verified by archaeological remnants. That changed when they found out that 'dragon bones' used as Chinese medicine were actually the old bones and shells that were used by the Shang for auguries. The Westerners who found this tracked it back to the site where they were digging out all this stuff and found the first Shang settlement. Since that time, Shang sites had been located all across the old Chinese heartland.
At this time, China was still heavily forested and I think the climate was warmer and more humid (even for N China). There were records of hunting of elephants, lions, tigers, hippos(!) and other large-sized mammals by the Shang aristocracy. Human settlements were sparse. The Shang probably controlled a stretch of the Huanghe, the original Chinese homeland, and there were barbarian tribes all around it.
The Bronze Age started in China at this time. Not very good with dates, esp those long long ago but I think the Shang lasted fr the early second millenium BC till the 1200s BC? Anyway the Shang were good with bronze and left behind religious bronze vessels in quantities, esp those huge tripods. I am sure they also used bronze to make other stuff like weopans.
The Shang were basically much like priest-kings and in Civ3 terms, would be religious and maybe commercial (?). Basically they were nominally acknowledged as one of the earliest Chinese entities but were still quite some way off fr the typical imperial Chinese. They gave the Chinese ancestor-worship (I think), the earliest Chinese written ideograms (they used it on oracle bones for auguries), the earliest rudiments of govt, maybe the concept of barbarians vs us and the war-chariot (really not sure about this one but its usage became prevalent in the next dynasty).
In many ways, the Shang were much like the barbaric tribes around them but they were farmers (of millet) and they were organised. However towards the end, they would fall to a barbaric people to the west who had been semi-Sinicized, the Zhou. This theme would be repeated a few other times in the history of China. One of the strengths of Chinese civ was its ability to absorb foreign barbaric tribes so well that these became as Chinese as any other original Chinese. Probably the Shang were only the direct ancestors of maybe 1-5% of the present day Chinese. The rest were all originally barbarians.

Next - Discussion
Next - 4.1 Sidepoint - Name of the Chinese ppl

4.1 Sidepoint - Name of the Chinese ppl

Something else just occured to me - the Chinese don't really have a name for themselves as a race! The term Chinese is actually a Western convention (coming fr the Chin [Qin] Dynasty - the first real Chinese empire). Native Chinese refer to themselves as Han zhi i.e. the sons of Han (after the Han Dynasty cos it was so great). Generally the people of China will take the name of the prevailing dynasty at that time. I.e. the Chinese of the Ming empire would call themselves the subjects of Ming.
Modern mainland Chinese would also call themselves Zhongguo ren i.e. people of Zhongguo, the Central State (not the Middle Kingdom, this is a more romantic translation). In my case, I call myself Hua ren, ppl of Hua. Not sure why. Some other overseas Chinese call themselves Tang ren, ppl of Tang (after the Tang Dynasty cos it was so foreign-oriented and also a great dynasty).
I think I am confusing myself .....

Next - 5 The Zhou

5 The Zhou

The Zhou dynasty officially lasted for 800 plus yrs till 221 BC (I think). It was divided into two timelines - the Western Zhou and the Eastern Zhou. In turn, the Eastern Zhou could be divided further into two periods - the Spring and Autumn period (named after a book of the same name; very important but can't remember what was it about) and of coz, the Zhan guo period i.e. the Age of the Warring States, one of the bloodiest historical periods in Chinese history.
The Zhou were originally barbarian pastoralists inhabiting the Wei river valley who practised some agriculture. Due to influence by the Shang who were to the east, the Zhou tribe coalescended into a powerful force to the extent that they could threaten the Shang. Apparently the Duke of Zhou was very learned and he instituted reforms that would make the Zhou powerful.
Anyway, according to legend, the last king of the Shang was an evil ruler. His brutal rule led to much dissatisfaction and eventually the dissatisfied elements invited the Duke of the Zhou to lead a rebellion to topple the king. So the Duke invaded the Shang, aided by dissident forces. I think by this time, the Zhou were using war chariots to wage war.
The Duke was successful and the Shang ruling house was toppled. I think the Zhou actually absorbed the Shang. The Shang prob went into commerce after that cos the character Shang also mean business in Chinese. Like shang ren - businessman, shang ye - business. Or something like that.
In any case, this was how the Zhou recorded their rise to power and I more than suspect they were prob cleaning up the records on their bloody grab for power. So the Duke of Zhou became the King of Zhou and a new order came into existense with the houses swearing allegiance to the King. This was the beginning of the feudal aristocratic period in China.

Next - Discussion
Next - 5.1 Sidepoint - the Wei river valley

5.1 Sidepoint - the Wei river valley

So many other powers would have their original base here (the Qin and the Tang esp) that I think I shld go into more detail here. The Wei river is a branch of the Huanghe and joins up with the main river near modern Xi'an. This area is fertile cos of the loess soil I think and well-irrigated (cos of all the irrigation projects later on). In the time of the Zhou, it still wasn't developed much but the Qin who came later would develop it into an economic powerhouse.
More importantly, the valley was well-protected by mountains to the north and south and could be easily defended at the pass which connected the valley with the rest of China. The ppl were hardy cos of constant raids fr the nomadic tribes to the west and north and so were used to war and autocratic govt. Perfect to serve as the base of any aspiring conqueror of China. ;)

Next - Discussion
Next - 5.2 The Western Zhou

5.2 The Western Zhou

The King of the Zhou now ruled the kingdom with the support of the feudal houses. In the beginning, these houses were all related to the royal lineage or from trusted retainers of the king. But with time, the relationship grew more distant.
Now this was the age of feudalism and chivalry. China was still thickly-forested, most of it and sparsely populated. The way feudalism worked was for the feudal houses to provide military forces for the King when needed in return for recognition. Also the land of each house was divided into 9; supposedly the lord's peasants would work the outer 8 for themselves and jointly worked the middle lot for free for the lord.
When not at war, the Zhou aristocrats engaged in hunting, supervising their retainers, overlooking their affairs and sometimes duelling. Typically issues arose betw diff lords and these were settled by fighting. The lord and his retainers would march smartly to the chosen field of battle and then the two opposing lords would fight (to the death). And they were honourable during the fight in much the same spirit as Arthurian knights or Jap samurai.
So the lords, on their war-chariots, would duel on the field while their retainers probably cheered on (cos they didn't have to do the fighting and dying). One story was that during a fight, one lord broke his bow (or ran out of arrows, something like that). The other lord graciously gave him the chance to get a new bow (or a new supply of arrows). Then the first lord instantly killed the honourable lord upon resumption of the duel. Funny ppl.
Confucius later on would write that this was the golden age of China. In fact in his writings, he idolized the Duke who became the King of Zhou. And also someone else, can't remember. He based his ideal forms of govt and relationship with barbarians on what he believed was the standard during this period too. Which would later bring some grief to China cos the govt forms for this era and setting would hardly be suitable to govern a huge empire.
The Western Zhou lasted for some centuries. The King, secured in his base in the Wei valley, could maintain control over the kingdom. Then disaster struck. Chiang and Di barbarians in the north and west attacked the Wei valley. The feudal lords answered the King's call to arms and rushed to aid the King's forces. Not sure what happened next but the outcome was the lords escorted the King eastwards to establish a new capital in the old Chinese heartland. Cut off from his base, the King of Zhou, as an effective political and military power, was no more. From then on, he remained the figurehead and also the religious symbol for the Chinese but other than that, he was no longer a player on the Chinese stage.

Next - Discussion
Next - 5.3 The Spring and Autumn Period

Just wanted to say that's I'm enjoying this thread!:goodjob:

Glad that at least somebody is enjoying it. I was beginning to think that I am talking to the wall or something. :lol: Don't worry; will keep this up for as long as I can.

I am also enyoing it
it is really interesting.
And i have a doubt.
India was the only important cultural focus, that was near China,
but according to what you said China remained kind of isolated.
Why?
i also remember
watching a documental on tv
a year ago
about chinese pilgrims
that traveled to India, to visit some buddhist thing i can´t remember.
Is this Zhou period when period when Confucius appeared?


And
i don´t know why but it is hard to me to think in China heavily forested.

:crazyeyes

In my mind china´s is full of rice terraces, with lot of people working,

the way you decribed china
remind me to
Japan in the 1500.

"India was the only important cultural focus, that was near China, but according to what you said China remained kind of isolated. Why?"

Remember this was one thousand yrs before the birth of Christ. China was geographically isolated and unaware of India or the West .... yet. There weren't even nomadic tribes on horseback riding down fr the northern steppes to raid China yet. In fact, China didn't even exist yet!

"i also remember watching a documental on tv a year ago about chinese pilgrims that traveled to India, to visit some buddhist thing i can´t remember."

That was during the Tang, more than a thousand yrs later. I am trying not to get ahead of my story. ;)

"Is this Zhou period when period when Confucius appeared?"

Nope, Confucius would appear in the next period, during the Spring and Autumn Period (Chunqiu). I am just putting in some add points about Confucius' writings.
"In my mind china´s is full of rice terraces, with lot of people working,"

The Chinese didn't eat rice yet at this time. They learned it fr some aboriginal ppl in the south (maybe around the Yangzi river) some centuries later. Remember what I said about China having a long history and how it evolves and how things changed over such a long period of time. ;)

"i don´t know why but it is hard to me to think in China heavily forested. the way you decribed china remind me to Japan in the 1500."

Maybe it'll help if you know that Japan is on the same latitude as Beijing which was the northern-most portion of China until Qing times. The Chinese plains were originally thickly-forested and South China actually has a subtropical climate. It was after the arrival of the Iron Age later which enabled man to clear away the forests and really began to transform the landscape. Kinda hard to cut down trees with bronze tools or even flint. :lol:

5.3 The Spring and Autumn Period

Well, what can I say? In autumn, you see the leaves dropping, the ground turns brown and the air turns colder. Life retreats. Then, there's the cold cold winter. After that, it's spring and life returns and begins afresh. New greenery dots the world. Sunlight and the smell of flowers. Arrrr ......

Got you all again, didn't I? :lol:

5.3 The Spring and Autumn Period (Chunqiu)

Now that the King's effectively powerless, it's now every feudal lord for himself. Now there were hundreds of 'states' in the beginning, most of which had some form of connection to the royal house of Zhou originally. It was during this period when the states began plotting and attacking each other until towards the end, only a number of large states still remained to contend with each other.
War also turned increasingly brutal. Gone were the days of chivalric duels. Now the whole populations were conscripted to fight the enemy. In the beginning, it was still quite small-scale but as the population grew, war became more vicious and casualties climbed.
It was during this time, I think, that the Iron Age came to China. I believe they learned it fr the iron-smithing tribes of Siberia. Anyway iron tools enabled the clearing away of forests and the transformation of the N Chinese plain. The end result was a population boom and more war as the states expanded out to fill out every sq inch of available land for farming. When free land were no more, they resorted to attking and occupying land fr each other.
The greatest states of this era were the Chin in Shanxi/Shaanxi (note not the Qin who would be victorious in the end) and the Qi in Shandong. I remember the Qi were strong cos of the salt trade. Also at this time, the Qin were beginning to stir in the Wei valley (more on this in future posts). And the giant half-barbaric state of Chu in the south (along the Yangzi).
There was some kind of league for the states. Each time, a league leader would be appointed, usually the Duke of the most powerful and influential state at that time. Not sure what's its role but probably much like the UN now, to discuss issues. Probably as ineffective as the UN now too. Usually led by either Chin or Qi.
Next - Discussion
Next - 5.4 The Spring and Autumn Period Part 2 (got more to say)

5.4 The Spring and Autumn Period Part 2

This was also the time of the Hundred Schools, China's greatest and most productive philosophical period. Becos of the political turbulence, scholars began to travel fr state to state, trying to advise the lords on how to conduct their affairs. These were idealists (some of them anyway) trying to improve on the lives of the ppl and end the wars betw states. The most important amongst them was of coz, Confucius.
Confucius' teaching essentially focused on relationships betw groups of ppl. Not very sure but he taught that there shld be mutual respect betw : -
Ruler and subject
Husband and wife
Father and son
Superior and junior (I think)
Also he drew examples mostly fr what he believed to the Golden Age of the Chinese, the dawn of the Zhou dynasty. After his death, Mencius continued on his teachings and these together would form the canons for Confucianism. Note that Confucianism is a philosophy and an ethics system, not a religion.
But there were also other schools of thought like the Legalists (who would make Qin the strongest state) and the Daoist philosopher-scientist-priests. Also some others but couldn't remember. :p
Also this was the time of Sun Zi the famous military strategist. He was originally a native of one of the Chinese states but ended up serving the Wu, a non-Chinese state at the mouth of the Yangzi (if my memory is correct). He aided Wu in its impermanent conquest of a part of Chu and also helped it to defeat Yue, another non-Chinese state to the south. But I think after his death, Wu was absorbed by either Chu or Yue. So much for his military treatise.
Anyway, the wars continued and the few hundred states gradually coalescended into a dozen or so thru conquest, trickery, marriage, union whatever. Eventually would left the 7 strongest states - Qin, Han, Wei, Zhao, Chu, Qi and Yan and also a handful of smaller states like Lu and Zhou etc.
This would be the window to the next age, the Age of the Warring States at the end of which the first true empire of the Chinese would arise. In actuality, there wasn't much diff betw the 2 ages. Just that in the next age, the combatant states were fewer, bigger, more powerful and the battles were huge affairs. The natural culmination of the wars would be a single empire. The final victor takes all.
Next - Discussion
Next - 5.5 Age of the Warring States

Attached is the map for this Zhan guo period. A bit blurred but it's the best I can find in a hurry. :o

Can you post a link to that map?
i really can´t understand it.

I mean
read it properly.

The map is just for an idea of where the different states laid. It's a map showing the stages in the Qin conquests; with the darkest area showing the original extent of the state. Pls try to use a search-engine to find better maps yourself.

5.5 Age of the Warring States

We'll concentrate on general stuff first; I'll talk about the Qin in the next post. Now at the beginning of this period, the main actors on the Chinese stage were set. The hundreds of states had been reduced to a few bigger ones - each of which was the equal of an European kingdom.
And each was drifting away, culturally, fr each other and taking on unique characteristics of its own. E.g. some states began to use Chinese characters which were slightly different fr the std to denote the same meaning. Also using their own weights, currency, cart-width (something to do with transportation) etc. If continued, it would mean each state would evolve into a culturally unique kingdom, much like the European kingdoms during the Middle Ages.
Now, China was in the full bloom of the Iron Age. I think iron production was also much higher than in the West cos the Chinese knew how to cast iron fr a very early age in addition to blacksmithing. Iron tools enabled the complete transformation of the N Chinese landscape, resulting in very productive agriculture and population boom. The main staple was now grain (I think), but rice was already being cultivated in parts of Chu (and would become a very important staple in later ages).
A side-effect of the Iron Age was, of coz, superior iron (steel?) weopans. The militaries at this time consisted of mainly infantry. With solid iron production, the warring states could mobilize the entire populations, armed them and warred. There were also chariot forces.
At around this period too, the tough pastoralists who had been pushed north into the steppes by Chinese agriculturists adopted horseback warfare. I think they picked this up fr further west. Now nomadic tribes on horseback appeared and began to raid China. The northern Zhao state even adopted this new method of warfare (i.e. cavalry forces) fr the nomads.
The northernmost states of Yan, Zhao and even Qin also constructed long walls to guard against this new breed of attackers. The states also built walls against each other. Hence the foundation walls for the famed Great Wall were being laid down now. These walls were mostly earthern ramparts, not what you would imagine if you are thinking of the Great Wall today. THOSE stone walls were actually built during the Ming.
The old league system was gone. The old hegemons, Qi was beaten down fr its former preeminent position whilst Chin broke up into three smaller states, Wei, Han and Zhao. The semi-barbaric Chu state in the south was also a strong power. The strongest of all, the Qin in the West, would soon rise and swallow up all the rest.

Next - Discussion
Next - 6 The Rise of Qin

6 The Rise of Qin

According to Qin records (propaganda), the founder of the royal house of Qin was a native who had been appointed by the King (of Zhou) as his chief horse herder (or whatever you call it). Anyway, the fact remained that after the Zhou shifted (fled?) to the east, the Wei valley sort of went to pieces. The Qin picked up these pieces and laid claim to the land.
In the beginning, the semi-barbaric Qin were really a weak power and constantly at loggerheads with its immediate neighbour to the east, the mighty state of Chin (this was still during the Spring and Autumn era). The battles of this period were really small-scale affairs and flowed to and fro along the border betw the two states.
However, then Qin adopted Legalism as its state ideology. The then King of Qin invited a new adviser to transform the state, Shang Yang. Basically, Legalism was that humans were inherently evil; hence they needed to be firmly governed by autocratic laws otherwise they would wreak havoc. So Shang Yang instituted Legalist reforms (laws) in Qin and in the process, transformed Qin fr a backwater state into the most powerful state in the China.
At the same time, the Qin were also conducting massive irrigation projects in the Wei valley, its home territory. This would in effect turned the area into one of the most productive in China and would result in huge agricultural surpluses. Which in turn could fuel Qin's war-readiness and supply a huge standing army all yr round.
Now the Qin march to total hegomony was unstoppable. The Qin would conquer the other states in rapid succession, culminating finally with the conquest of Qi, the last state standing, in 221 BC. And then the King of Qin styled himself Qin Shihuang Di, the First Emperor, and the First Chinese Empire was proclaimed.

Next - Discussion
Next - 6.1 The Rise of Qin 2 (too short the above)

I have found a site with the timeline of major events for the Qin here : -

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/7547/chrono.html

Also found another better, clearer map of the Warring States : - :)

muhaha, you really have too much time in your hands man.

A good read, but now don't have enough time to do my history 12 homework. There are journals/essays/film responses/research essays, and more.

Mind to help me out? :D

Originally posted by cataclysm
muhaha, you really have too much time in your hands man.

A good read, but now don't have enough time to do my history 12 homework. There are journals/essays/film responses/research essays, and more.

Mind to help me out? :D The general work-day is very very long. :crazyeyes

Not unless you want to fail in your homework. :lol:

seriously, I would need some help with my final essay for this term.

It's about something in the 20th century, 1919-1991. I havn't pick the topic yet. There are 12 of them, examples are like "describe the importance of mass communication"

I'm not asking for much, just want someone to proofread it when I'm done. :p

Well, I have just gotten my Civ3 installed as of this moment in time, so my schedule's very very tight. Sorry, mate. :D But I'm sure you'll understand.
Besides, I really suck at essays, reports and the like. No kidding. Give me realtime on-the-spot exams anytime. :crazyeyes

come on, I really need someone to prove my statements in the essay are valid.

I havn't even started yet. It will be done sometime around next week.

Thanks in advance:p

originally posted by cataclysm
come on, I really need someone to prove my statements in the essay are valid.

I havn't even started yet. It will be done sometime around next week.

You should start a new thread and post your essay there. I am sure people will give you some interesting comments and tips. I probably will.

originally posted by SKM
Well, I have just gotten my Civ3 installed as of this moment

How comes that you already have civ3 in Singapore and me not yet in Tokyo ? :crazyeyes Did you order it from the States ?

By the way, I am enjoying your thread.

I have found a good link (I think) about Chinese history :

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/chinhist.html

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Julien
originally posted by cataclysm


You should start a new thread and post your essay there. I am sure people will give you some interesting comments and tips. I probably will.

originally posted by SKM
[quote]

hehe, since I'm only a Grade 12 student and I'm interested in computer(programming/web design/networking/3d graphics/hacking... I do them all:p) than history, my essay will probably sucks by this forum's standard. Anyways, I might post it(can it survive in the World History section?), heavy critics already expected.....:p

I like history but I don't have the time for it. Most of my knowledge is the modern history between 1900-1991.

thanks for the advice anyways

I don´t think you know about this,
it is very interesting.
It is about the story of jews in China.
First i thought it was a pile of ****
but it seems that it is true.

http://www.sino-judaic.org/kaifengjews.html

Originally posted by Julien
How comes that you already have civ3 in Singapore and me not yet in Tokyo ? :crazyeyes Did you order it from the States?Nope, I didn't. Bought it in a shop. They began selling on the afternoon of Nov 8. Had to make a second trip there that day after work cos went too early, during my lunch break. :(

Originally posted by Kublai-Khan
I don´t think you know about this,
it is very interesting.
It is about the story of jews in China.
First i thought it was a pile of ****
but it seems that it is true.

http://www.sino-judaic.org/kaifengjews.html During the Tang, all kinds of ppl came to China (and stayed on). The Jews of Kaifeng survived until Qing times at least I think. I remember some Westerners actually came to research on them, the last few Sino-Jewish families.
The thing about Chinese is that you can be Chinese and practise any religion you want. Most Chinese live on a mixture of Confucianism, Daoism and Buddhism, theorectically at least. Actually most would simply be practising some kinda folklore customs, depending on the prevalent practise in the region.

Originally posted by Julien
originally posted by cataclysm
I have found a good link (I think) about Chinese history :

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/chinhist.html [/B]Actually, I have read this some time back (and forgotten about it). This is a very good link and I'll suggest that everybody read it instead. Guess this will conclude the end of my 'lecture'. :D
And pls raise anything as a discussion if you aren't sure bout it or want to find out more. We can discuss it. Maybe.

To resurrect an old thread.

6.1 The Rise of Qin 2

The man who would become the First Emperor, was according to legend, of dubious birth. The King of Qin became enamoured of the maid of a merchant, Lu Buwei. So Lu, to curry favour with the King, presented her as a present. The two were wedded and a yr later, Prince Cheng was born. In the meantime, Lu manoevered himself into power due to his influence with the King.
Well, the King had many sons I think and Prince Cheng was sent to a state (forgotten which one) as a hostage when he was very young, as insurance for good behaviour fr Qin. He was certainly being viewed as expendable (since he was suspected of being Lu's son, rather than the King's). But this is all legendary stuff and of coz, we know that the Confucians wrote it. Confucians really have a score to settle with the First Emperor. Personally I think he was a real prince by birthright.
Anyway the King died and Lu manoevered to get the prince back to Qin to become the new king (with himself as regent). He had great influence at court and certainly picked this prince cos he had influence with his mother (former maid). So King Cheng ascended the throne and ruled over the mightiest kingdom in China.
By then, Qin had become very powerful. Due to the strict enforcement of Legalist practises (laws and regulations), the Qin was very organised. They struck northwards and westwards, driving the barbarian tribes (pastoralists) into the steppes. This was the time before the horse-riding nomads I think which they would learn in the steppes fr the West. The Qin also conquered Shu and Ba in the south i.e. modern Sichuan and began massive irrigation projects there. These irrigation works are still in use even today.
Coupled with the economic bounty of two agricultural regions, the Qin became unstoppable. They took the religious vessels and rods (or something) fr what remained of the Zhou, effectively ending the Zhou Dynasty. Then they took on the remaining states, felling every one in rapid succession.
And in 221 BC, the last state fell and King Cheng became the new sovereign of China. To herald a new era (to differentiate fr his Zhou predecessors), he styled himself as Qin Shihuang Di. Di meaning emperor, sort of. The Qin was to become the effective blueprint for Imperial China till 1911.

PS - Later on, Lu Buwei was ordered to commit suicide by King Cheng (who was ridding himself of his regent) over some issues (probably to do with his corruption in office). Also note, Li Si, a Legalist, appeared some time now and later became a trusted civil official and pillar for the Qin.

Next - 6.2 The Qin Dynasty

Nice lecture on Chinese history:D

I started it when Civ3 wasn't out and I didn't have anything better than do. Sort of got side-tracked after that but then, that's life. :D I think I'll cont it on-off, depending on my 'mood'. And my Civ3 campaign.

Ouch
That was the last one?:cry: :goodjob: