As with the first spoiler, because of the changes to such things as communication trading and map trading, it is likely that your knowledge of the map and of other civilizations (and be inference even the technology rate), will probably be progressing at a somewhat slower rate than in previous games.

SO PLEASE PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE QUALIFICATIONS TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS SPOILER, AND TO WHAT CAN BE POSTED IN THIS SPOILER!

Qualifications for participation:

You must have reached the end of the middle age in terms of research.
You must have visibility of the entire starting continent.
You must have contact with the other civs (or their remains) that start on your home continent.
You must have the full map of the continent the immediate north-east of the starting continent (and obviously contact with the other civ there).
You must have contact with the seafaring civ that started on the continent to the north-east of the first continent.
You must have full map of the continent that the seafaring civ started on (to the north-east of the first continent)

Please DO NOT post minimaps!, or screenshots that show the minimap.

If you have views / contacts / details of any other continents, then please wait until the final spoiler to post them (I'll open that in a couple of days).:)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/swordsman_smaller001.gifPREDATOR [civ3mac] Panther 1.29

We entered Middle Ages in 710bc still in despotism with an on-going in-decisive war against Spain. We have contacts with the Vikings and the Oda, which built a settlement on the coast NW of us in 975bc.

We get 2 elite promotions from the Spanish war, but no leader. When in 530bc 17 Spanish units appear we make peace. Seattle near the wool now has walls, barracks and temple and hopefully will stop any Spanish ambitions.

In 650bc, our horseman "kills" the volcano and "frees" the iron. We build road and upgrade warriors to swords. When the English city of York finishes the Great Lighthouse 490bc it becomes a prime target and we make a military alliance w Spain vs. England. We conquer England with the gems and silks and the Great Lighthouse. In 50ad, all the English cities belong to us.

In 330 lots of Spanish units appear. We trade chivalry from Spain for gunpowder. Our saltpeter is connected and we upgrade pikes to muskets, horses to knights. Then we ask Spanish forces to leave, they declare war, and we form an alliance w the Vikings against them. In hindsight we were very lucky, because the Spanish source of saltpeter near Barcelona was exhausted about the same turn we declared war and thus with few exceptions our knights only faced pikes, not muskets. Our knights (supported by a couple of catapults to red-line the 2-3 muskets and defended by our muskets) capture all of Spain but 2 coastal cities which are acquired by the Vikings. In 870ad, Spain is no more. It gave us however Colossus and Great Library in Barcelona and The Pyramids in Madrid. The Library was useless and did not give us any tech, whereas The Pyramids gave the usual push to our development by furthering fast population growth.

Regrettably all the fighting did not produce a Great Leader and thus we hand-built our Forbidden Palace in Valencia between 610 and 840. Waste and corruption are very low (supposedly because of the large world size), thus it takes only 230 years. Once the FP was completed, we could do 4 to 5 turn research for the rest of the game.

We sent a lot of ships exploring dropping scouts on the Viking and Oda continents. We found one of cracker's favorite barbarian-infested islands and in 110ad onward also contacted other civilizations we may not talk about yet. We may reveal(?) that fighting among them eliminated two of them in the timeframe of this spoiler.

Our research starts low level w engineering (need money for upgrades) which we learn in 70bc and trade for feudalism and republic. We revolt and after 4 turns of anarchy the American Republic is established. In 110ad, an overseas civ trades us monotheism and monarchy. We are 1st to learn invention (by 1 turn) but don't get chivalry for it. We get gunpowder same turn as the Spanish, are 5 turns late on chemistry, 3 on theology, 2 on education, 2 on astronomy, but are research leader from then on only getting metallurgy from the Vikings.

We did not engage in the early medieval wonder race but built Copernicus' in Washington (now working on Newton's) and Magellan's in New York, the latter starting our Golden Age the same turn we entered Industrial Times by learning magnetism in 880ad.

General observations:

The late date for contact and map trading was a disadvantage for us. By the time these options became available, we already had all the AIs money, resources, etc. from other deals.

The map is cleverly designed making us loose quite a number of suicidal ships before we succeeded in finding "the rest of the world".

The low level of corruption was a nice feature for this game allowing fast production and research. Thus I will aim for Space victory.

Since we nearly own our continent, we plan to eliminate next the Vikings (close enough to be productive) and the Oda (luxuries) and maybe establish some resource-rich colonies on the other continent. We do not plan any major conquests there, because we want their money to fund our research.

For some reason I couldn't build the FP, even though I had more than 8 cities under my control. Not that it mattered much though, since I estimated the gain of having the FP on my starting continent wasn't worth it.

Some people complained about elite promotions and GL, but I had a lot of great leaders. But then I waged war a lot too, and built the heroic epic early.

After waging a quick war to deprive the spanish of their iron, which let me in control of all the iron of the starting continent, I declared war against the english and quickly wiped them off, taking control of all their cities. Now I had enough leverage to take on the spanish.

It took a few turns to produce and mobilize my army, and I only stopped when the spanish were definately anihilated. That left me in a comfortable position, controling ressources, and with most of the continent to myself (but for a few scandinavian and asian cities), plus I captured the great library from Madrid. I then decided it was time to turn my sights to another continent...

The scandinavians, as it turned out, have an interesting hobby. It consists of training each and every able man into a veteran soldier, and have all of them roaming the country. My first scouts to reach this busy island reported a very high number of roaming units. So my strategy was to land a dozen muskets on a mountain, and inflict maximum loss on their troops.
My dozen muskets was quickly obliterated, but scandinavians paid for it dearly. Since I was at war with the scandinavians, I also razed their cities that are on my continent. Then I declared peace, and planned for a return in this weakened country as soon as I could have a consitent force of riflemen. So I started saving money and researching.

Technologicaly speaking I was keeping up, amongst the advanced nations after I captured the Great Library. I switched to republic early in the middle age, keeping 10-20% of luxury to contain unrest when at war.
My cities are busy building the beginning of an infrastructure, I have been producing military units most of the game, and they need infrastructure badly. I am also producing the next army.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/swordsman_smaller001.gif PREDATOR PTW1.27

Link to first spoiler (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1499008#post1499008)

Exploration, ancient age

1725 BC --- Gained contact with Scandinavia. A scout saw Uppsala from across the strait north of Madrid. The Vikings lacked Masonry, The Wheel and Iron Working, but would not sell Polytheism for these three + gpt. I guess that even if an AI civ doesn’t know other AI civs, it still knows what the most valuable techs are. So I had to postpone trading until the other civs had polytheism too, which succeded. I fortified the scout on its “golden tile” until the discovery of Map Making.

1675 BC --- I was surprised to see a redlined squid on my coast. None of my contacts was even close to Map Making so I think they had gone to work on it with a catapult! Not a bad idea considering the power of the squids. My first galley was later destroyed by this same redlined squid, and my second one killed it.

730 BC --- Gained contact with Oda as I was exploring the area around the “4-Tile-Island”, and realized that they had the seafaring trait. It wouldn’t be long before they knew everyone that I knew, if they didn't already. They were well ahead of me in tech. I should have bought Code of Laws from them and traded it to England for Mathematics, so that was a mistake.

Warfare, research

510 BC --- A 40 turn gambit on Monarchy paid of partly. The Vikings gave me Mathematics, Philosophy and Code of Laws for it, while the others had learned Monarchy 5-10 turns earlier. Revolted to Monarchy and got a 2-turn anarchy on my first try. .

410 BC --- In my first spoiler I stated completely erroneously that I destroyed England during the ancient age. I took Nottingham (Iron) and Coventry before I reached this date. Then England lined up 9 archers on the mountain near Coventry. I was down to 7 horsemen and so made peace and gained Construction. I then bought Currency and entered the Middle Ages, going for a 40 turn gambit on Engineering. Proceded to build horsemen to redeclare on England in 20 turns.

In hindsight, I should have made peace with England 5-10 turns earlier, when they learned Construction, but I had no idea they had so many archers.

320 AD --- Despite this mistake, the Engineering choice paid off fully. I wiped out the English the same year that I researched it, and traded it around for Monotheism, Feudalism, Chivalry and Theology. What a break! An interesting thing I found out when I replayed this part (I have submitted) was that the fact that I had wiped out England lowered the value of those 4 techs considerably. With England still alive, Theology would have cost me my life’s savings ~800 gold. The value of the techs Monotheism, Chivalry and Theology would have been higher because England did not know them. After Engineering I went for Printing Press and the tech pace quickened a bit.

Then I upgraded about 12-15 horsemen to knights, but decided that this was not enough to attack the powerful Spain, who seemed to have lots of pikemen. This was no brave decision, and I soon realized that it would slow the game down. Besides, the decision made, the gold used to upgrade knights should have been saved for universities. About this time I decided to go for another Space Race Victory. My military progress was too slow, as usual.

Exploration, Middle Ages

430 AD --- Gained contact with a distant rival. No details about that here I guess.

670 AD --- Settled the Barbarian Island after lots of preparations. I'll truncate that description too, in order not to spoil.

More Warfare

810 AD --- Finally declared war on the beautiful Isabella with 11 musketmen, 32 cavalry (almost all upgraded) and some elite horsemen. In the end I captured 12 cities, 1 town and razed 1 city, and Spain was no more. Most cities had marketplaces, so I didn’t have to starve them.

940 AD --- Built JS Bach in London after an arbitrary prebuild.

980 AD --- Hurried Forbidden Palace in Madrid with my one and only leader.

1020 AD --- Entered the Industrial Age. This was a late date mainly because of the long preparation for war with Isabella. I did not have enough cities during to Middle Ages to achieve a good tech pace (or go republic). I don’t think I gifted a single tech, not until the very end of the age. Just tried to squeeze money out of the week civs and keep up with the tech leaders. The war itself was also fairly long, partly because I left at least 3 troups in or around each captured city to avoid awkward flips. The Spanish Galleass kicked ass, what a nuisance! When they had 3 cities and 1 town left they also learned Nationalism which slowed me down further.

Wonders gained: Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Sistine Chapel, Newton’s College. Hanging Gardens was good because it is an Industrious wonder. Now I could plan my Golden Age and get it by building Universal Suffrage. I decided to try for a late construction of Theory of Evolution, in order to get one or two Modern techs from it.

The plan is to revolt to democracy and get Universal Suffrage pretty quick to avoid cascades. Thanks for reading all this.

My favourite Easter Egg shows whales inaccessible to exploitation. This is one of the nice details that made exploration such a challenge. Seeing a whale, one hoped to see land soon, but no sir.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/ptw.gif 1.27f
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif Predator

Link to Ancient Age Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1500815#post1500815)

I left off in 800BC, having just hit the Middle Ages by trading the Vikings Currency for Philosphy and Construction. I started on Republic (28 turns) and was ready to invade the English (just because, as I explained to my son, they are on MY continent). I also saw a strange ship dart out and into the fog. In 750BC I saw it again, Nobunaga’s Junk, which belonged to the Oda, who others reported in the last thread. As this was a unique name, I assumed it was Cracker’s way of giving them a starting unit to replicate the Curragh, and it had movement 7 (Seafaring), and appeared safe on sea. They were up Monarchy, but behind Philosophy, Currency, Construction, and MapMaking :huh: (definitely must have been a starting unit). They wanted all that AND 700g for Monarchy, no thank you. I rushed a galley to follow his, as I didn’t know if he had already made contact with anyone else. I wasn’t able to get much from contact with the Oda, as he made contact with an English Galley two turns later.

Also in 750BC, the English finished the Great Lighthouse in York for me, as I had already captured Nottingham (S of Iron) and razed Coventry. Madrid finished the Great Wall, which would be a problem later. I also built Kansas City in a central spot on the continet (SW of the wool) to be my future FP city. I continued fighting the English, getting York and then London in 590BC. I pushed on, though as I wanted Warwick and the silks, which I finally got in 450 after razing their new capital, leaving them 2 cities on the west coast. Meanwhile, I found “Barb Island” to the south, seeing barbarian Samauri as well as the usual horses, it was swarming with units already. I didn’t return until the industrial era.

370BC I completed Republic, and was shocked to get a 1-turn anarchy (I assumed Cracker had somehow given us that part of the religious trait, to bypass the tactic/exploit of trying for two random rolls, but then I read where many others had 4+ turns, so I must have been incredibly lucky). Kansas City started on FP, and I started researching Feudalism in 12, no one else had any MA techs. Feudalism came in in 150BC, and it was time to march on Spain.

The Spanish-American War
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/J2_G27_50BC.jpg

This war drug on longer than I had planned. Knowing the new Great Walls would make every city tougher to crack, I decided my main attack would push through Barcelona (her Iron source) and then straight to Madrid to take out the Great Wall. Then I would mop up the rest of the cities. My initial attacking force was 7MI, 6 Cats, 3 Pike, and a couple elite swords. Barcelona fell in 50BC, but then it would be a long fight and siege to get Madrid. First, I faced an onslaught of counterattackers in the forest NW of Barcelona, where my cats helped get a good kill ratio, but still had to constantly wait to heal. The second major battle was on the ridge W of Cincinnati, where he sent dozens of archers and horse. Again the terrain and some cats helped me hold them off with minimal losses, but it kept me from pushing my reinforcements forward. The tide turned, however, in a 3-turn period. In 70AD Kansas City completed the FP, making my westerm cities productive and even improving some of my core cities. Two turns later, I got another great leader, Lee, who rushed Sun Tzu in Cincinnati, triggering my Golden Age (Since I had built the Pyramids and captured the Lighthouse). I was able to speed up Chivalry w/ the GA, and crank vet horses. I was finally in position for the siege of Madrid, but after the first turn, I was disappointed to watch as my cats destroyed the Palace, the Colossus, and finally the Great Wall. Luckily I had already triggered my GA, as if I had been counting on the Colossus, that would have been pretty traumatic. I was hoping for the commerce bonus, and the Walls would have been nice in case the Vikings invaded. (I realize this is a reported bug w/ Conquests, looks like the coding that caused it was already built into PTW, if you have a wonder that acts as walls). Destroying the palace had no effect on Spain that I could tell, but all the walls disappeared (It was like Han Solo taking out the Shield Generator!). Madrid finally fell in 210AD, and by 350AD Spain was no more. Another GL, Sherman, rushed Leos.

Another strange sight:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/G27_Kublai_330.jpg

Note that they have the Kublai (Caravel), but don’t even have Theology yet, much less Astronomy. I later found it in the Civilopedia, they got the Kublai with Monotheism. (More Seafaring advantages!).

By then I was researching at 4 turns, beelining first toward Navigation. A suicide galley had spotted a border in the distance, just out of range, before sinking, and the next 10+ also sank trying to find new lands. My GA ended in 380, but I was able to buy Invention from the Oda for Chivalry and Theology (one of the few techs I got from the AI). I got Navigation in 410AD, and was able to make contact with ????. (I’ll save that discussion for the next thread). I also turned then on England’s two cities, as a fishing expedition, but no leader, and they were gone by 430AD. I finished Copernicus in Kansas City in 550AD, and in 570 I had Military Tradition, and invaded Scandanavia. After using cannons and my leftover MI to take a port, I was able to ship cav over quickly, and ran over most of his cities pretty quickly. I only faced 3-4 Beserks as counters, he didn’t even have Invention when the war started, but the Oda must have given it to him. The Oda declared on me the turn after I attacked,(for no reason, that I could see), except they had a Kensai Oda parked next to the Viking capital. I sank a few ships, and took the small island they had near Scandanavia, then got peace. I got another GL, Jackson, who formed a Cav army, and started Heroic Epic. I finally got Magnetism in 720, taking me into the Industrial Age (and out of this thread . . .) I had all of Scandanavia at this point, and the small Oda island, as well as our continent.

The American Dream
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/J2_G27_720.jpg

tao: Tough luck with the Leaders. I think given that the number of civs from our neck of the woods will be reduced by the time contact is made with the 5 other civs, there wouldn't have been much to gain by the time that Navigation and Printing Press became available. That said, I really enjoyed the postponement of map and contact trading.

Bolka: due to the unusually low corruption, you needed more cities in order to build the FP.

Megalou: what is a galleass, and what victory condition are you pursuing?

Justus: good and interesting warmongering! Why did you build your FP so close to Washington? And what victory condition are you going for?

Txurce:
I picked the location for Kansas City because it is almost perfectly centered for the continent, about 12 tiles to the East and West coast, and centered N-S except for the NW part of spain, so I thought it would keep my whole continent productive if I jump the Palace to another continent. (I normally don't move my palace, but I used the Palace Jump last GOTM, and this game I wanted to try it with a leader). During this time frame, I was trying to decide between Space or Domination, I ended up going for Space since I was able to maintain the 4-turn research through the Industrial age. (Plus it just seemed like a good American style of victory!).

Justus II

That is an impressive Middle ages. I didn't manage to take control of my island until I researched Military tradition, which was much later than you. (can;t remember what time)

I will have to go home and check my save games before I can remeber what happened (I have already finished)

I honestly thought that I was hammering the AI yet when reading the QSC stats and your thread I can see that I was well behind. I think I made the mistake of not settling my capitol in the Flood plains :(

Other than that I also have to figure out how to speed up my early advances as by the end of the QSC period I only had 4 cities (18 population though)....

Well back to the drawing board.

Tech Step: you didn't need to move the settler to the flood plains to build the typical number of cities we've seen in Spoiler 1: 7-12. I was one turn from having ten, without moving to the flood plains or building a granary. I did nothing special, just used all my cities to pop out the occasional settler as they hit 3 or pop. If there was a key, it was making sure every worked tile was irrigated, so every city could produce a settler or two. That's all it took to be in this ballpark.

On a side note, I would argue that moving to the flood plains wasn't optimal, because what increased settler production it may have afforded would have been constrainjed by the English and Spanish expansion, and - more importantly - keeping Washington further west was ultimately much more beneficial vis a vis corruption on the continent.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif Mac 1.29

Link to Ancient Age Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1509763#post1509763)

I decided to stick with my original notion of going for a 100k cultural victory, just because I really enjoyed going for it in the recent Persian tourney game. My choice proved to be amusing, given how many flips I suffered in the early Middle Ages.

My war with Spain, which began in 430 BC, continued until 300 AD. It was fought entirely with horsemen, who encountered surprisingly large numbers of spearmen. I had conquered Barcelona and its iron on the first turn of the war, but the city flipped back four times! This gave Spain a few swordsmen here and there. Fighting such a long war in Republic with only barracks for infrastructure eventually led to a 50% luxury rate. Two turns before Spain fell, I began a six-turn war with England, taking back one flipped city and Canterbury, their iron source. For this I used a few swords and captured cats that I had in reserve. I didn’t go further because my republic needed to recover, and England without iron would be easy pickings once my horsemen upgraded to knights.

I had built the Library with my original FP prebuild in 130 AD, and shut off research. (I wouldn’t have done this if I weren’t going for a cultural victory; gold seemed more important than a slighlty higher tech pace at this point.) The wonder brought me surprisingly little – monotheism, feudalism, chivalry, theology and education – but did allow me to sock away lots of gold, to be used later rushing cultural improvements. Finally at peace in 330 AD, I rushed the FP in the new city of Buffalo, smack in the middle of the former Spanish lands. This created a perfect balance with Washington’s relatively westerly location. My cities filled in some of the space the Spanish had neglected, and began a much-needed nationwide library and marketplace construction project. I was amazed by the resultant low corruption throughout my empire. The Library petered out in 520, but I found I could research astronomy in 5 turns. Navigation also took 5, but everything was four after that for the rest of the Middle Ages.

England’s 20 turns of peace expired in 530, and after allying with the Vikings for security, I invaded with what knights I had. The rest of my civ stayed on its peacetime program, which proved to be wise, as England collapsed in 8 turns, as its few swords proved worthless against my knights, making it knight vs. spear. As of 610, I controlled the entire continent.

I took Spain ahead of England because Madrid had the Lighthouse (as well as the Colossus). I quickly explored the Viking and Oda holdings, and then found the barb island, but had no luck finding the other 5 civs until 700, after navigation. The Lighthouse obviously provided an edge, but cracker was determined to make full contact difficult this game. (And in my game at least, it wouldn’t have helped much had I met them immediately after capturing the Lighthouse.) Once I met the other civs, however, I did trade them techs for heaps of gold, as well as luxuries. The Oda, however, proved to be the most useful tech partners. From them I acquired engineering, metallurgy, and military tradition. I have no idea how the Oda did so well researching, given their small size, lack of the scientific trait, and no distant contacts.

The continent was now building culture at a solid rate, researching at max, and socking away more and more gold. I had decided to save it for rushing improvements in the Viking lands, once I conquered them, rather than rushing buildings on the productive mainland. I’m not sure if this would ultimately be for the best, as all that gold wasn’t earning me any culture points yet.

My plan had been to time my GA late in the Middle Ages, when I could benefit from both rushing universities, and getting a fast start on the early industrial techs. To get a GA then, however, required capturing an expansionist wonder (the Lighthouse) and an industrious one, then building one of my own. The only industrious wonder near me was the Hanging Gardens, in the Viking capital of Nidaros. The problem was that the Vikings had the galloglass by now, and Nidaros was inland. I would need to capture a coastal city, and not lose my invading force to Vikes or flips, then move on to a capital that would probably be well-defended. The sure approach was to take the Vikings the way I took the Spanish: city by city, culminating with the capital, taking what losses were necessary. At this point, however, I didn’t want to build the number of knights required to conquer the Vikings before I took the capital. And I also didn’t want to needlessly break a RoP treaty.

The first step of my solution was prebuilding Smith’s in one of my cities. I then made a RoP treaty with the Oda, who had two cities on the Viking mainland – including one north of Nidaros – and shifted 17 knights over there. By 800, Smith’s was two turns from being built. I declared war on the Vikings by moving onto the iron mountain north of Nidaros. The next turn, Nidaros fell, and the Gardens were mine. And the turn after that, Smith’s was completed, launching my GA.

Knights on mountain north of Nidaros. Smith's two turns from completion in Atlanta.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/27-801ad.jpg

I then decided to take radical action. Having little doubt that size-10 Nidaros would soon flip back to the Vikes, and having no desire to retake it, I took a coastal city, and razed Nidaros, along with the Oracle and the Gardens. That’s the sort of cultural superpower I intend to be! I then waited the four turns it took to acquire military tradition, and set about cleaning up the Vikings. I had one close call, emanating from my worst fear: a single galloglass attacked Madrid from the sea, endangering Bach’s, which would be completed in 9 turns. By a miracle – my civ was essentially undefended – a knight was passing through Madrid. I don’t even recall putting him there. The knight redlined, but held off the galloglass… and the marauder didn’t have any backup. Whew. By the time I entered the Industrial Age in 900, the Vikings had three cities left.

Txurce: Nice surgical strike to get the Gardens! For some reason, it makes it more interesting when you only need one city, rather than just overrunning the whole country, (even if you take out the rest later). I remember a game a long time ago, when I invaded someone just to grab Leo's, upgrade like 80+ muskets to infantry and a ton of cannons, then gave it back to them!

Did anyone run out of iron early on?

Both my sources dried up on the main continent.

OPEN PTW

Last era ended with war against spain that was settled. I built up a large (about 15) veteran horsemen stack and then I took on England.

I had already met the Vikings and Oda (sorry about mentioning that in post 1). Since I had the Great Library I put nothing into science for the time.

The last english city fell around the same time as I got chivalry and invention. I managed to snag Leos and make the knight upgrade. Unfortunatly Spain was on track. So I started to put some money into tech again to reach Cavalry before them, I did and that was the start of the American Spanish war.

They didn't really put up that much of a fight, for some reason they had not built that many knights. So it was mostly pikers and longbow defenders. Then came the even that would suck suck suck, as I took the last Spanish city there was no spain wipe out message. THey had escaped my clutches ... They had no town on viking or oda island. They had previously had the Great Lighthouse so they could be anywhere. This led to culture flipping. How on earth can a city want to flip back to a single stupid settler on a galley?! So basically I had to have light guard in the cities and try to build temples. Flip I re-take .... This went on for a LOOOOONG time and really slowed down the game for me. Eventually the problem was solved by me paying off all others to start a war with spain and one of them found the galley and sunk it. Game over for spain.

The Oda tried to take me on a few times but never got further in land then the beach before they where cut down. The vikings tried to, one think I know for sure now is that the computer really doesn't know how to use its berserkers. Instead of attacking my coast towns by boat he insisted on putting the berserkers on shore and then attack. With their poor defence value they where quickly put to the sword/gun.

I had my island, looking at the vikings island. Oda was to far away. At the end of the era we met the others, they shared their land mass about equally. They where hopelessly behind in tech at the time but got a big boost from meeting us.

I also found what can only be described as barbarian island. It took some patiens to get a beach head on that. But before the end of the era I had two cities there.

I managed to snag nearly all of the wonders of the era, exceptions the once for theology and navigation.

The vikings had to many troops for an invasion, it would have to wait another era before we tried that.

btw SIRPLEBIDAH, nice city name.

@Tech; Didn't run out of any iron. Had both my main island sources until the end of game.

Justus II,
Good play. I wish I could be as aggressive as you. As for the 1-turn anarchy - are you sure? I believe that if you hit "Yes, let the revolution begin" on the pop-up, 1 turn passes before you get to see the domestic advisor in the F1 screen.

Txurce (how do you pronounce your membername?),
The galleass is the name in PTW for the frigate-like ship that in Vanilla civ was named "Galloglass" by cracker et al. I aimed for spacerace because I suck at early land claims. Also, I'm expecting a good tech pace with my load of universities and my GA coming up in the industrial age, where I might win back some turns I lost in the beginning. Diplomatic would just be too small a challenge. I would probably learn a lot if I played a few games where I decide on conquest or domination from the beginning. Good game, Txurce, 4-turn research pace in middle ages sounds impressive.

Originally posted by Tech Step
Did anyone run out of iron early on?
Both my sources dried up on the main continent.

Yes ... but luckily I manage to have other source from Viking island.
I also considered trying to settle on barbs island but it was impossible to land and I would require at least Infanteries to survive the onslaught.

Easter Eggs : I have notice also some Barbs samourai (Reg 4/4/2).

Originally posted by CdB
I also considered trying to settle on barbs island but it was impossible to land and I would require at least Infanteries to survive the onslaught.

Easter Eggs : I have notice also some Barbs samourai (Reg 4/4/2).
I am tempted to call this a "design flaw" in the otherwise great map. I noticed lots of Oda junks passing the south of our continent on their way to and (damaged) back from the island. The AI is always very eager to hunt down barbarians and by sending so many junks at least in my game they had killed all the squids by the time my first galley set sail.

Since inspection from sea did not show any resources and since I was very confident that AI landing troops would not survive, I only positioned a frigate on a sea tile (no attack from barb galleys) and watched the circus during the Middle Ages.

Justus, you couldn't be more right about the pleasures of single-city conquests. I am entering a stage in my play where I'm very comfortable one notch below SirPleb, and would rather entertain myself like Zwingli does, as opposed to keep raising the level of my play.

Megalou, the four-turn research pace came free with control of most of the continent; I only had a few libraries and markets at the time. You are on to something in considering setting a military target from the start - it makes it much easier to achieve those goals if you don't spread yourself too thin by playing a "balanced" game. If aiming for domination or conquest, all you need at the beginning is towns, workers, and barracks.

In an earlier post, you wrote that "My favourite Easter Egg shows whales inaccessible to exploitation. This is one of the nice details that made exploration such a challenge. Seeing a whale, one hoped to see land soon, but no sir." But I think that if you follow the whales, you reach the Oda and the barb island! If so, this is an even cooler touch on cracker's part.

-Txurce ("Choor-seh")

Txurce,
to expand on the whales, I think it is strange that in random games the computer doesn't create these merely "decorative", inaccessible whales. So that change only is a good touch by cracker. I think you're right that they also show a path, but before the Great Lighthouse Oda could not be reached, which is why, to me, the whales seemed like ;) red herrings.

Originally posted by CdB


I also considered trying to settle on barbs island but it was impossible to land and I would require at least Infanteries to survive the onslaught.

Easter Eggs : I have notice also some Barbs samourai (Reg 4/4/2).

I had three galleons with a couple of frigates for protection surround the island and just waited for a square to become free, when one did I dropped 12 musketmen there and watched as the barbarians flung themself at me, dying for whatever pagan god they belive in :)

I didn't even get a chance to settle on the island to the south of the main continent. The Spanish had that but as soon as I found It I went in and took it :) during one of the many wars that I had with them.

A quick question for all concerned.

When you attack a civilization early on do you usually go for a quick kill? ie: Do you save up heaps of units and kill them in one or 2 quick wars. Or do you drag it out a bit and continually take their stuff each time you declare peace with them? (Although it does get harder to declare peace with a civ that you continually fight with)

I ask this because in my game I was at war with the spanish at least 4 or 5 different times. (taking a city here then a city there) while letting the English do most of the damage (In an attempt to weaken them)

Originally posted by Tech Step
When you attack a civilization early on do you usually go for a quick kill? ie: Do you save up heaps of units and kill them in one or 2 quick wars. Or do you drag it out a bit and continually take their stuff each time you declare peace with them? (Although it does get harder to declare peace with a civ that you continually fight with)That very much depends on what I want to achieve:

In this game I had a long fight with Spain even though they wanted to make peace, because my border city was well defended and I was fishing for a Leader.

Whereas when attacking England, I wanted their cities to become my own and productive asap and thus to avoid the flip risk, I didn't stop before getting them all.

In other circumstances (usually later in the game), I want to keep the AIs as cash cow and thus have no intention to cripple them significantly (except maybe by getting their iron, horses, saltpeter, or later rubber and uranium). Or I keep a scientific civ alive as tech provider beginning of new ages.

@Tech;

When I go to war I usually make sure I have a stack of DOOOOOOM ready to "quickly" take out my enemy. I'd say a good stack should be atleast 10-20 units. But it all depends on the situtation, there might be circumstances that make me jump earlier.

In this game there was four wars with spain. First they declared on me, I asked for peace cause I was not really ready. Then I declared war on them. I didn't get very far that time. Peace again after about 10-15 turns. The third push, when I took all their cities. Then I had to go for a fourth one cause I couldn't find their galley+settler and their main island towns where starting to flip back, I gave all other civs the same tech for war vs spain, I also got a hoard of cash, lux and such ...

Originally posted by Tech Step
When you attack a civilization early on do you usually go for a quick kill? ie: Do you save up heaps of units and kill them in one or 2 quick wars. Or do you drag it out a bit and continually take their stuff each time you declare peace with them? (Although it does get harder to declare peace with a civ that you continually fight with)

I ask this because in my game I was at war with the spanish at least 4 or 5 different times. (taking a city here then a city there) while letting the English do most of the damage (In an attempt to weaken them)

In my case, it varies. The advantage to wiping someone out quickly, apart from eliminating culture flips, is that you have gained more territory earlier, which helps your score and speeds your research. But there is an argument for oscillating wars, in which you keep pruning the nearby civs, while allowing them to stay alive and thus help as research partners. This works better in the early game, where research is more even, and taking even one city is often enough to put a crimp in a civ's development. (A related question is whether to use overwhelming force, or "just enough.")

I also fight different types of wars for different objectives. One factor that hasn't been mentioned is I try to look at the target civ's potential power down the road, and decide whether I need to eliminate them now, or if I can afford to use a limited war. For example, I was concerned about the Vikings and their Beserks, as long as they were in the game I would have to garrison every city with multiple units, which would be very expensive. Even with one city, they would have that threat, so I knew I wanted to eliminate them ASAP. My plan was to take them out before they got Invention, as it turns out I had Military Tradition, declared war, and the next turn the Oda gave them Invention, so I did face three or four Bezerk counterattacks, but no landings, as I sank every galley I could as soon as I saw them. (I waited to declare until I had ships, and cannons on shore, near the 4 I could see, and took 3 of them out the first turn, damaging the fourth). But had I stopped short, they would still be a threat, so it made sense to make it a total war. Sometimes a limited war can achieve the objectives, like vs. the English, I didn't mind leaving them 2 cities on the West coast, as they had no resources or anything that could threaten me. But because it was desert, I knew I would like to finish them off before they got Gunpowder, just becuase Muskets would be harder to take out. So for me sometimes it is a timing issue, and whether I think they will be a threat later.

@Tech

Like flexo, I usually try to put together a significant force so that I can manage the war the way I want, either go for the killing or leader fishing by using Elite units and having them rest in between kills.

Good number is useful to kill the backbone of an opponent and therefore play safe rather than being force in defence.
Plus, without enough forces you can not finish the job. For exemple, you redline ennemy units but you do not have the extra unit to do the kill. Usually red-lining a unit require some units on your side to die. Hence you do not get the full benefit of your attack. And you may end up a combat losing more units than your enemy...
Another fact is when you are at long war, both building military units (maintenance / not building infrastructure) and war wariness restrict development and research. Hence you have not the advantage of developping new units.

Another way to wage a war is by pillaging, playing mostly in defence or slow attack. You deprieve the ennemy from ressources and capacity to produce new units before mounting your attack. You see good example of this in SG games in AW.

You'll see in my war of Spain that I failed put a decent stack and that I needed to slow the pace of the war so that I could pillage around Madrid to get population down / remove shield production / no lux connection. Then it made me slow my development badly hence a late IA...

[civ3] v1.29f Open

Ancient Age (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1517838#post1517838)
I am still in AA and … but I could not speak of Oda in previous Spolier.

Peaceful development
750 BC : I see a Reg English Warrior beating a volcano so I try with my reg warrior and see him being defeated no scratching the other volcano. I should have notice previous victory was against all odds. I will build some cats in order to red-line this volcano.
690 BC : Vikings must have bought Philosophy from Spain. I exchange Code of Laws with them. I am researching Currency fast while building a small army. I think I should go after Spain … but it might be difficult. Easy target is England but I need at least an Iron … Otherwise, it will be impossible.
590 BC : Everyone has literature. I am tempted by a Lighthouse switched to GL. I buy Literature & 49 GP from England with Poly. I think I will wait for Pyramids / GL to be constructed by Spain / England before the war. Still preparing it. Since England lack Iron. I am very tempted to go after the Spanish only Iron source.
570 BC : Oda have now Monarchy. I could try to grab it but need to give all my techs and 80 GP… no way. In retrospect, I should have done it because I could have change early of government type.
550 BC : First Slave available from Spain 26 GP
490 BC : England now has Maths and no GP. It is going to be hard to be able to do much trading.

War : Preparation & Story
I have decided to go after the strong Spanish because I do not want to grow even bigger. My idea is to pillage their iron source with 2 horse and a scout. In parallel, launch an attack on Toledo with a strong (7) sword party. Then, I will go after their Iron source and Capital to grab the Colossus. I could go to wipe England out but I would wait for them to nicely build a wonder I could make use of.

1. Oda attack me
470 BC : Oda landed a party of one warrior and one Archer near my settler factory town. Both Regular… I have just learnt currency but I can not still make an offer to Oda for Monarchy. I was hoping to get putting Currency in the Balance but obviously it can not work. Currency is after Maths on the tech tree. I should have researched construction ! I try to give them Math and see for what I would receive Monarchy …17 GPT and the rest. I tell Oda to get back to where they belong and surprisingly (?), they declare war. They lack Iron are definitively searfaring since I see their junk going here and there.
Horse beats Warrior put to Elite and Elite Warrior narrowly defeated the Warrior. I grab a slave from their settlement and bring it back to my territory. I will not declare war to the rest yet. I am one turn short to have my Iron connected.
450 BC : I have just upgraded 15 Swords

2. Attack on Spain
430 BC : I declare War to Spain. I will start by pillaging their only Iron. I give Currency to Vikings so that they take care of Oda I receive also 61 GP. I give Currency also to England so that they declare war to Oda & Spain. I think England is going to suffer badly with only Archers.
410 BC : My pillaging force lose a Horse but I still can pillage their iron source. Tempted by some sort of fast win, I have a spear heading towards a open worker. One Sword destroys the town from Oda. I have a settler ready to rebuild one. 2 Reg Sword goes in the open in the Spanish territory. I have killed the 2 Sword in the open and 2 Spear but lost also 2 sword in the process. Not to bad anyway.
390 BC : Toledo fails. Cats managed one shot out of the fortified sword who died thankfully to my first attack. But I lose another sword against a fortified warrior. I know I should not have attacked across the river. But now it is done… There are few sword and archer going in attack. I will play it safe. On defence, with the cats, while I strike at Barcelona on the way towards Madrid. I wish England would help me a little more.
350 BC : I should have been more prudent. I am going too much on the attack. We have a strong military but darn those archer with a defensive short are harder to deal with. Will see odds are 50/50…
330 BC : Well, it is going to be more difficult. I lost my Elite Horse and 1 sword. I am down to 12 Swords all scattered across.

3. Attacks stalled – Defence
290 BC: Spain is in Monarchy and I am now weak against them … darn turns. I purposely left a scout there so that I go sustain their attack. I am going on defence to rebuilt my troops. I will mostly build Horsemen as they retreat and will keep the sword for the killing. It is going to be a hard and long war.
70 BC : lucky break, I have the Vikings to join my fight vs the Spanish…
50 BC : I enter Middle Ages by finally learning construction and still in despotism. I certainly should I went for Monarchy earlier on … I am building up my forces for Babylon attack.

4. Madrid War
10 BC : I badly re-negociated the deal vs Spain with England, I should have taken some cash on top of this, but I still hope England would wage a war… I manage to conquer Barcelone by the iron. It is only my second Spanish town I enter :(. I am now going towards Madrid building more troops. I declare peace to Oda but I do not gain much out of it… so bad.
90 AD : I still have to fight the Spanish. They attack Toledo with 5 Reg Horse. I have 1 Cat & 2 Sword and 2 Horse mostly healing and not fortified and my army is 10 Sword & 10 Horse & 5 Spear & 3 Cats … They come again and again and Toledo is badly placed on the wrong side of the river to improve defence…
130 AD : I am ready to attack Madrid with 1 Cat & 3 swords (Elite) & 5 Vet Horses. I have 3 reg horses close to me. attack on Madrid failed … I killed one Spear – Redlining 3 but there is still one more. So if I am taking Madrid, I will suffer the counter-attack from 3 reg horse at least. So I divert my attack to kill of the reg Spanish horses in the open. I am going to bring more reinforcement while pillaging. IBT, two spear and two settlers goes out of the town (?)
230 AD : England has Republic and made peace with Spain. They want Iron & Wool to continue the fight… no way.
250 AD : Big Battle of Madrid takes place. 2 Cats do nothing. I have 10 Horses, 4 Horse. 3 Horses attack, 1 retreat, the other 2 kill spears. I then lose 1 Horse to one spear that goes Vet. I pillage the last tile and go on defence.
290 AD : I deal with England : Republic vs Wool & Feudalism. And finally conquer Madrid. I think I will revolt next turn

5. Republic and finishing Spain
310 AD : I revolt and get 4 turns :D. I have waited to finish my first galley that sail the sea. Second galley in 8 turns (not counting the anarchy).
350 AD : Huge Error :mad: I should have carefully looked at the Republic Changes. 2 GPT per army component is draining my economy to an halt. I have to research at 10% because I am only allowed 11 free units and I have 42. Especially because I whipped some building in the meantime and the War Wariness starts to kick. It is awful. On the side note. I am unable to revolt to Monarchy since no-one is willing to trade this tech for a reasonable amount of money. I will continue to conquer Spain and then England. I have lost count of my elites battles and still no sign of leader. I badly need an FP also… I really should have gone towards Monarchy in 570 BC rather than this lousy Republic in 310 AD. I will not count the lost shells and money in this process :cry:
On the bright side of the world, Spain is definitely toasted. Casa del Bamrapido is destroyed, Valencia fells, the next turn Murcia and Spanish horse resource is mine. Seville fells on 400 AD
440 AD : IBT Seville flipped back :eek: but I conquer Santiago & Zaragoza (in the North). As Vikings have taken one city from Spain. I still have 2 cities to go after. I am also stopping an English settler (with 2 Horse and one MI) to settle where stood the Spanish city I razed while I have a settler on his way…
450 AD : Vikings after declaring peace to Spain (?) extorting Wool from me (few turns earlier), so they will fight only Oda. Seville is mine again. I am tempted to wait for the last city of Spain to grow but after waiting few turns.
480 AD : Oda deal : Wines & 27 GP vs Wool. I am now going building mode since I am strong compare to English (next target)
520 AD : I decided I better finish Spain to drop a bit WW : 57% are seeking peace. I drop research because I am late and I will try to built my treasury for the knight upgrade.

War on England
530 AD : I waited till the deal expired and that I had my forces in position.
540 AD : Warwick is captured.
600 AD : Back to max research. The extra lux made Republic working much better correctly. Also the infrastructure pays off.
630 AD : I capture Hastings. I try to go South with a suicide galley and no luck.
680 AD : Renogociate deal for Wines for 4 GPT & 6 GP ! Not cheap. But mostly needed since I have only one lux by myself (wool). A second galley discovers the infamous barb island south.
700 AD: London fell after pillaging all tiles around the capital. This is the best way to have population decreasing.
720 AD : York also.
740 AD : Oda are near my capital and not willing to backtrack. I have made a successful gambit on Theology so I can back in tech course. I exchange with Oda : Chivalry & 323 GP vs Theology. I upgrade my Horses to Knights thank also to Oda’s cash. I ask Oda to leave my territory again. They are willing to leave (2nd time but they are no doing it). And I give back to Vikings (since they have the GL) Theology & Chivalry for Engineering & Dyes. I could not get Monarchy even with Wool in the Balance.
750 AD : How surprising. The Lone Archer Attacks me and lose. Oda just broke the Wine deal and GPT… not good rep :).
760 AD : Vikings have Invention. I will soon learn Education (6 turns) and will give them with pleasure ending the GL advantage.
810 AD : I have some Oda Junk dropping 2 pikes & 2 MI & 1 Sam near London, close to a decent invasion force. My galley tries to find a way around the ocean going along the sea patches without much luck
820 AD : I ally Vikings and get some techs for luxs : Alliance vs Oda & Invention vs Education & Wool & Silks & 33 GP. I am searching Banking and then Economics (to get Smith’s). Maybe I should have went to Navigation first to sail the ocean.
830 AD : Vikings extorts 22 GP. Your time will come soon…
850 AD : I waited a long time for fishing for leader but decided a farce must end so English are dead … Still no leader.

Ending of war with Oda
I am mainly searching other continent(s) and building wonders but I am still at war with Oda while dealing with Vikings…
910 AD : Gunpowder & 2 GPT & 93 GP vs Astronomy. I have 2 Salpeter and Viking have none. They are toasted.
1010 AD : GA triggered by Copernicus (hand-built). I have my marauding galleys that were attempting to settle the Barbs island in the south that goes back so that they can get upgraded.
1040 AD : Chemistry in 4 turns.
1050 AD : FP in Madrid, so It makes another RCP 5 rings around Madrid with 5 nicely placed Spanish cities :goodjob:
1080 AD : Physics in 4 turns, I buy my second worker out of the Vikings. And a deal to make them on par with me : WM & Navigation & Monarchy & 95 GP & 15 GPT vs Banking & Chemistry. But soon, I will need to go after them. I hope they will go after Metallurgy although they lack salpeter…
1090 AD : Vikings complete the leonardo’s Workshop. Switching my wonder pre-builts. I am left with a Palace per-built in 5 turn and a cathedral in 2 turns… I will slow production on these towns in GA …
1100 AD : I have just conquered the small island off the East of Vikings. Against 3 Pike (1 Vet & 2 Reg), I had 2 Knight retreating (Elite & Vet), 3 wins redlining knights (2 Elite & 1 Vet). This first combat against a size one town makes me re-considering my plan invasion of Oda. I will need flight no less to get there. Initial invasion will be not difficult but reinforcement will only be manageable by airlift. Otherwise reinforcement will be annoying with transports. I need to turn against the Vikings since they have now an average army. I have cancelled my alliance vs the Oda with the Vikings. Oda do not want to give me metallurgy too bad. Getting back my two free lux I was giving them. I have to wait for my second deal to end.
1170 AD : Vikings have just made the Magellan Voyage. I have lost second source of Iron. I now badly need to go on the attack with the forces I have and grab Magellan’s from Vikings, because I am now limited to Spear, Horseman & Bows. I exchange Economics with Music Theory in order to get a wonder to produce. I will not be able to upgrade my cats and now Oda are the ones with Iron…
1200 AD : I declare peace with Oda and deals Metallurgy vs Astronomy & Banking & Music Theory & 150 GP. I enter IA. I then exchange Wines & WM & Military Tradition & 190 GP & 30 GPT vs Physics & Economics & Navigation. I can upgrade my 21 knight to Cavs. Steam is due in 4 turns at – 77 GPT. I still have some knights to be upgraded on the island East. I have also kept my 3 Elite knights…

I will only meet the others civs in 1270 and will keep contact separated…. To be followed.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/swordsman_smaller001.gif
Stopwatch Civ
Ancient Age (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1497988#post1497988)
3hr 13min
I entered the Middle Ages recovering from defeat at the hands of the Spanish army. Without iron, I built up a force of horsemen and catapults to recapture my lost cities and punish Spain. War resumed 16 turns after it had ended with a demand to remove a substantial stack of swordsmen/archers from American soil. It took 2 turns to fully destroy the swordsman/archer stack with significant horseman casualties, but fortunately most of Spain's other troops headed for my ally England. Soon 3 Spanish cities were captured while the catapults wore down pike defenders and knight counterattacks.

4hr 33min
A horseman rush captures the hilltop town of Barcelona from pikemen along with a supply of iron.

4hr 45min
Spain lands a single longbow next to undefended Washington which defeats a horseman in defense. Shifting units, I barely get an unfortified regular horseman into Washington to defend against the 1hp longbow and sucessfully retain the capital city.

4hr 57min
After a close 2 turn battle which destroys nearly all of my remaining horsemen, Madrid is captured with the Great Lighthouse. The peace treaty brings America up to date on technology.

5hr 55min
Great lighthouse enhanced galleys discover "someone".

6hr 40min
Newton's University triggers a Golden Age, and I buy into the Industrial Age.

At this time I still don't have enough cities for the Forbidden Palace, but corruption seems to be low enough without it. Perhaps the OCN for this map was equal to that of a huge map.

PTW Open 1.27

First, a big :goodjob: for Cracker for a most enjoyable game.

My middle ages started quietly with a smallish empire. The early Spanish assault is now ready to be revenged, but first the small matter of the English. Elizabeth put up an early fight in the hills south of the iron, but once the initial archer attacks were repelled, her cities fell like dominoes. She moved to #1 consort in 530BC. With England but a memory, I turned my attention to Spain. Using the brick by brick built FP in Philadelphia as a springboard, I attacked Spain with 30 swords, 20 horse and 20 cats. Toledo (with Leo’s) & Barcelona (with iron & Colossus) fell on the second turn of the war. Using the unhook the iron, build warriors, reconnect it, upgrade to swords ploy, the rest of Spain fell in slow but steady succession. A couple of flips (Barcelona in particular) caused the war to drag out until Spanish Muskets were defending against American knights. The first GL appeared killing a Spanish archer and formed a pike army. The second GL rushed the Heroic Epic two turns later. No more GL’s were born until the war of Viking Absorption began in 1200 AD. Spain was relegated to history in 1100AD. After a few turns of R & R for the troops, a Viking berserk killing a musket and taking Baltimore broke peace. The following turn, with the discovery of Military Tradition led to a mass upgrade of 25 knights. Caravels quickly moved them to the Vikings homeland and in 1405 AD Ragnar, was brought to my castle (now in Madrid) in chains. During the war, I completed Smith’s kicking off and American Golden Age (Pyramids, Leo’s & Colossus were acquired from Spain). A third GL was returned from Vikingland to rush Newton’s and a fourth is waiting for something to do. And with the discovery of Magnetism, America entered the Industrial Age in the late 1300’s.

Even though I control the largest amount of land, I only have 3 iron, 1 coal, 3 horses and 2 sources of saltpeter. I’m concerned about the availability of future resources rubber, oil, aluminum and uranium. A lack of any of these will require more work for the troops. I do have 5 native luxuries in quantity (also importing wine & furs from the Oda). So far the Oda have all the known resources and those 2 luxuries.

I was about to prepare a task force to acquire the Oda lands, but even with 40+ cavalry, 15 medieval infantry, 25 cannon and at least one musket for each city, my military advisor cautioned that I was weak against the Oda. That does explain, why the Oda, who were once the tech leaders are now at least 4 techs back. They went to Republic and have been spending most of the their income on troop maintenance. I am down Navigation and Democracy to them, but they lack Physics (and what follows), Economics and Military Tradition. They are the wonder builder though, I’ve got Copernicus, Pyramids, Colossus, Leo’s, Newton’s, Magellan, Great Library & Great Lighthouse, they have the rest except for JS Bach’s (Babylon). My only revolution so far was around 500ad to monarchy. So instead of invading the Oda, I think I’ll build 5-6 ironclads to patrol the Oda coast and send my galleons in search of the other tribes. I acquired knowledge of the barbarian island in a map exchange the Oda, but really see no reason to visit their little paradise.

I’m still not sure of my victory condition choice. Only 20K is out so far. I probably won’t select Diplomacy or Histograph, so that leaves war (conquest / domination), space or 100K. All are doable. I might try a multi-win condition finish (never did that before) for the fun of it.

About RCP ...
I hand-built my FP in Madrid (Original Spanish Capital) and that makes a nice RCP 5 with 5 Spanish cities. Is the AI also reading the forum :D ?

As my original build around Washington is also a RCP 5... It is going to be very producive...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifhttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg1.21

Regarding Easter Eggs: Among my Great Leaders was this guy.
I think it was no. 7, I did not notice the others before him!!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Tom_Cruise.jpg

It was indeed no7, and the others before him were regular generals names. I had a good laugh when I saw it, I used it to complete the Internet.
Then I tried to explain to my wife that Tom Cruise invented the Internet...

I wonder if Tom was supposed to be timed to come up during the Oda campaign, ala "The Last Samauri"? ;)
I must have just missed him, maybe he was no. 8, because I had 7 and didn't see him.

I wasn't lucky enough to get 7 GL but I did notice that the first odean (is that correct?) junk I encountered was called 'Mr Rourke's junk'. Could that be a reference to Mickey Rourke and have we got an actor theme in this game? I did spot that one of Oda's other junks was also named but I didn't record it and I can't remember it now. Can anyone help out here?

One was Nobunaga's Junk, that I saw, so if you saw a second, he must have started with at least two. I also noticed that the Junk had a move of 7, and was safe in seas, even before Map-Making.

Thanks Justus. That was the other one I saw. This one has a historical link though so I'll have to forget about actors/films!

To establish the nexus of the "Mr. Rourke" label you could realize that you started on "de plains, de plains". ;)

Ooh, THAT Mr. Rourke, of "Fantasy Island" fame!! Well, he didn't exactly grant my wishes, but I'll leave that for the next thread!

This one was quick. I continued to play my OCC last night but i could not get contacts with the others so there was not much to trade. I became a backward civ that was discovering a new tech every 40 turns and buying 2 - 3 techs every 40 turns also.

In 700AD, I had Education, and Invention when the Spanish who had conquered England in 600AD killed my peacefull civilisation. They were building Newton's at that time and they really stroke me with their Conquistadors (6 in one turn). My Spears fought valiantlly and were all elites when they died.

I'll watch the next spoiler now to see how the map looked like. Total time 2h 56minutes. Got you Zwingli ;)

PTW 1.21 OPEN

I entered the Middle Ages in 250 BC after recently starting a war with England. I did not want to destroy England or Spain too early because I wanted them to discover some techs for me.

At that time I also had contact with the Vikings and Oda, but had not yet discovered Oda’s homeland. In the war with England I took all of their cities but one and then made peace.

Never got a Great Leader in that war. Also, had bad luck with Wonders, lost both the Great Library and Lighthouse by a couple of turns. But I did get Leonardo’s which was a big help.

Throughout the Middle Ages I used the Vikings as a trading partner. Oda, on the other hand, declared war on me, but could never get it together to invade my continent.

As I said in my previous post, I gave up on Galleys as I was losing too many. I finally discovered Astronomy in 850 and Navigation in 910. I had a beautiful prebuild going for Magellan’s Voyage and timed it so that I discovered Navigation in the same turn as the prebuild was complete. Unfortunately, I forgot that you can only build Magellan’s in a seaport and my prebuild was in the middle of the continent! I had to waste 98 shields and build a University and then start Magellan’s in a seaport and wait another 19 turns for its completion. Attention to detail.

My Caravels finally made contact with the other continent in 990. There were only 4 civs, one having been destroyed. They were woefully behind in the tech race, but I traded 3 of them my World Map for various luxuries. Shortly thereafter I eliminated England.

Since I no longer needed Spain as a trading partner I decided to declare war as soon as I had Cavalry. I invaded Spain in 1060 and took 2 cities immediately. However, they launched a massive counterattack consisting mainly of Pikemen, Musketmen and Medieval Warriors. They had an awful lot of them, but that just prolonged the agony for them. Their culture was higher than mine and Seville, which contained Sun Tzu, flip back to them twice. Each time I took it right back with my nearby Cavalry.

In 1260 I got my first Great Leader of the game. Used it to build Newton’s University and that triggered my Golden Age. In 1265 I made peace with Spain, leaving them with 3 cities. I decided to use my naval ability to invade the new continent before they discovered Cavalry. This took some planning because of the distance involved. However, before that could get under way a strange thing happened. I had an ROP with Oda and he had 2 units roaming around my continent. Atlanta, which contained Newton’s and Copernicus’ was an interior city with no military units defending it. Suddenly Oda attacked Atlanta and captured it. I immediately took it back and only lost one population point, but I was surprised the AI would do that. I had not experienced it before. I allied with the Vikings against Oda and let the Vikings occupy his attention.

I entered the Industrial Age in 1285, safely in the lead and plotting a massive invasion.

In 1325 my invasion fleet of 7 Galleons set sail to cause some chaos in the new world.

Playing civIII v1.29f

Ancient Age (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1556799#post1556799)

Entered Middle Age in 610, researching Republic at full blast (24 turns). I have no idea of which victory condition I'm going for, but I do want to own my whole continent.

590 Settled 9th city Houston to hold off Spain to west.
York builds great wall. Barcelona (right next door, hmmm) builds Great Library.
450 St Louis founded to cut off England's north-west encroachment.

English Wars

230 Two turns to Republic, and AI already know it! What to do, should I take Great Library after getting Knights? I have a culture problem against Spain -- they are way ahead of me. Maybe wipe out England, we are on par culturally, and they have no iron nor horses. I build barracks and horsemen everywhere.

30 BC Start war on England. The Military Advisor says I am 'strong' compared to them. I want to take York ASAP to get rid of walls on all English cities.
10 BC Green generals lose some horses in the river and due to exhaustion. But in general my two armies (west and east) are like knives cutting into soft butter.
30 AD All Englishmen now fly the American Flag! The war went very well, losing only a few horsemen and not having any cities flip. The Englishmen are now all quite happy to have the new ruler.

Chivalry in 6 turns. With Knights I will take on Spain. Hmm, Spanish iron has disappeared, was next to Barcelona.

260 AD Galley with 2 scouts eager to explore the mythical New World sink in treacherous waters to the NE.

Spanish Wars
300 Chivalry arrives. I need money now, and Great Libary will be my research vessel for the next few hundred years, so reasearch is cut to 0. Upgrading all my horseman to knights in next few turns.
370 AD The war is waged. I am gallant, declaring war 1 turn before the onslaught begins.
420 AD The war goes well, as my northern knights have pushed to Madrid, and the Southern Knights likewise control the Olive Desert.
430 AD In the midst of the Northern battle, the great leader Washington asserts his brilliance. After successul campaigning, he decided to help rush the incredible Sistine Chapel in nearby Madrid to help prevent a cultural flip. The completion of which starts a Golden Age!
Meanwhile explorers find an island teeming with barbarians to the south. Is this the mythic New World?
460 AD Santiago flips, only slowing the inevitable conquest of Spain.
490 Spain has been incorporated into the American Republic, and the spanairds are thrilled. Oda lands on my continent the same turn, what are they here for?

Exploration and the end of the Vikings
500 all exploring galleys follow the sleep deprived orders of the mad admiral and are never heard from again, with nothing but sea and ocean to be remembered by.
610 Vikings join Oda against me. Well, this is good news, my knights were becoming bored picking olives in the sunshine.
620 Peace with Oda, trading Gunpowder and PP for Education, 200 gold, 40 gpt.
630 Golden Age is over, my economy seems sluggish. No matter, my rested knights only need to polish their swords.
710. Oslo, Vaeleris (with barracks!) under my control. The foothold in Vikingland is established.
Cavalry upgrade somewhere around here.
800 Treacherous Oda declares war again! Viking Nidaros flips. Viking battles bring out the great leader Lee who rushes Magellan for better exploration abilities.
830 Vikings are incorporated.

The New World
860 At long last, the promised land is discovered, covered with many strange and backwards peoples. One is so strange that just trying to talk to them will crash the game! Fortunately, their neighbors incorporate them in 890 (they were Arabs).
910 My knights are exhausted, protecting 2 continents and a small island with Odaans. 2 of my galleys set to conquer Oda filled with Cavalry are sunk by a junk! I have 2 more galleys, but they have only 1 cavalry and 5 cannons. Hmmm, time to rethink the Oda Campaign. Oda military matches my own, and they're mostly concentrated on that tiny island. They have all the resources -- I think it will be a tough battle. Plus, there culture dwarfs my own. I could use more great leaders, perhaps I should train troops on Barbarian Island.
930 Barbarian Island landing with 4 galleon-fulls of cavalry and musketmen. I lose 1 cavalry in like 100 defensive battles, and all the rest become red-lined elites. I move them back to the mainland to recuperate.

Enter the Industrial Age.

Closing Remarks

I am happy with my progress. All of my wars went quickly, with the exception of the Oda. (What to do with them?)

I have Sun Tzu on my home continent, for free barracks military training ground. I also have Leonardo, for cheap upgrades. In fact, I have have every single Middle Age wonder that has been built.

There is no question that I will win the game, but now I need to decide how to win. Oda culture dwarfs my own, but I have a tech lead and strong armies. Compared to the New World, I am 2 centuries ahead, hmmm. Maybe I should borrow a page from history, and now go settle the New World...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifhttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg1.27

Ancient Times (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1530283#post1530283)

Contact with Vikings and Oda

I had these contacts before entering the Middle Ages but did not describe them in the first spoiler.

I contacted Scandinavia in 2390BC, hailing her across the channel. And in 1100BC those darn Vikings, who should have been pillaging and partying instead of working, completed the Pyramids using the technology I'd traded them when we initially met. :(

In 1500BC I noticed a wounded squid off the northeastern coast:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/sirpleb27-2a.jpg

This was odd because none of my neighbors had Map Making nor Mathematics (i.e. galleys or catapults.) So how had the squid been injured? The only theory I had was that there was another Civ in that direction, and that Civ either knew Map Making or had some extra gifts due to being "seafaring" (a possibility mentioned in the game announcement.)

So my first two galleys went northeast and in 975BC one made contact with the Oda. The Oda junks were interesting because they could end their turns at sea and they had 7 movmement points. Clearly they did have a special knack for seafaring :)

In 590BC Oda declared war on Scandinavia. They stayed at war for a long time which was convenient for me - it kept them occupied and allowed me to be a trade broker between them.

Ongoing warfare

When I entered the Middle Ages in 270BC I'd eliminated England and had just started attacking Spain. My military consisted of 31 Horsemen at the time.

I was in Republic already but the modified unit maintenance for Republic (to match Conquests) was never a problem. I had enough towns that I never paid even as much as an average of 1g per unit - the free support more than offset the 2g/unit cost for additional units.

In 50BC I finished off Spain, still using Horsemen.

I then entered a peaceful interlude, researching and building up infrastructure.

In 210AD I upgraded most of my 34 Horsemen to Knights and headed for Scandinavia. Declared war and landed in 230AD.

Scandinavia had many pikemen and it took a while to slug through them all. In 390AD I finally got my first great leader (way overdue - I had very bad leader luck this game) and he rushed Forbidden Palace in the ex-Viking lands. And in 440AD I took the last Viking town, taking them out of the game.

In 520AD my Knights began an assault on Oda. And in 640AD they finished the job.

At that point I had 49 Knights. They would not take part in any further battles belonging in this thread. They'd be upgraded to Cavalry before seeing any further action of course :)

Research

I began by researching Monotheism and then Theology. After that I traded for Feudalism (one can count on the AIs researching this as a priority) and then researched Chivalry, learning it in 210AD.

I researched the top part of the tree next: Education, Astronomy, and Navigation, Banking.

Then I was able to trade for Invention and head for Military Tradition. By this time I was at a four turn research rate (I got there with Banking) and I stayed there for the rest of the Middle Ages. After learning Military Tradition I researched the other required techs and finished the Middle Ages in 770AD.

The other Civs weren't much help with research. I guess wiping them out didn't help in this regard :lol: They'd only contributed two techs to my progress through the Middle Ages. But in the early Middle Ages Oda and Scandinavia had been good trade partners, contributing a nice bit of gold to my coffers in exchange for tech.

Wonders

During the Middle Ages I captured The Great Lighthouse from Spain and The Pyramids from the Vikings.

I built Copernicus' in 540AD and that triggered a Golden Age, due to previously captured wonders. The Golden Age sped my attack on Oda and general development. But it wasn't game altering, it was just a nice boost.

I also built Magellan's, Bach's, and Newton's during the Middle Ages. I missed out on Sun Tzu's and Leonardo's - I would've liked to have those wonders but hadn't put a high priority on them.

Next

As I left the Middle Ages in 770AD I controlled all of the starting continent, plus the Viking and Oda lands. What opportunities await America in the rest of the world?

[ptw] Open

After my last post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1539955#post1539955) I had to strengthen my forces before spain got her hands on the dreaded pikemen. She was strong and had built the collossus and the hanging gardens. We met the Oda after a while as one of their junks passed my shores.

I contemplated going fastest route for knights in my game, but instead I decided to build an army of horsemen and aim for Invention and massupgrade my horses to knights. At 300 AD I declared war on the spanish as she just finished The Great Library and was on the brink of further fortifying her cities with pikes. I had however not finished chivalry even. So I had to rely on horsemen and a few medevial infantries in my early conquest of spain. I saw that I would be at a disadvantage as I had prioritized markets/libraries instead of building my army at max rate. So I decided to invite the Scandinavians and my newly discovered Odan neighbours to the party by giving them engineering.

My horses kept their casualties low by attacking on first move turn, so there where alot of retreats in my long sieges of some of the heavier fortified spanish cities. I quickly took the spanish iron close to my borders, but Isabelle had somehow gotten out many Medievial infantires and a few pikemen. It proved to be a long and bloodied war, and I lost a few captured cities to flips.

In 620-40 AD my knights captured the last spanish city, and was left with only three widely spread Odan cities on my starting continent. By then I had built Sun Tzu and Leonardos. I captured the Collossus, The great Library and Hanging Gardens from the spanish. The Odans finished the Great Wall and the Oracle, while the Iroquis got the pyramids at their capitol.

I went to war with the vikings sometime in the tenth century. My heavy investement in the military part of the three had given my Cavalries to combat the viking pikemen. Still I took a few hits, and their berserkers proved to be a fierce enemy to my unprotected Cavalries. A few of them retreated, many died. I lost one of my undefended northeastern towns to a berserker from a scandinavian galley. But he was quickly dispatched by my cavalry.

In 1020, about halfway through the scandinavian campaign, I finished copernicus observatory. I aimed for The sistine chapel, but with one round left on it the Odans finished theirs. Making sure I lost 194 shields changing to Copernicus. I entered my golden age however. And both my economy, campaign and research speeded up after this. My shift to democracy had to be put on hold however, as it would ruin many turns of my golden age.

I finished magnetism in 1190. The vikings where history, and I had done a little seafaring so that I saw the continent of the Odans and a lot of empty sea where my caravels dived under the ocean waves - though a captured viking lighthouse made it a bit easier. I had to do all the researches on my own through the middleage since neither of my neigbours seemed to favour anything but kicking out troops. My vertical drilling through the tech three cost me many rounds, and in retrospective I would have been better off dropping my rush for invention, and gone on an earlier knight attack of both the vikings and the spanish.

The 'Fantasy Island' in the south had all its tiles covered with barbarian troops of various quality. And I knew that the barbaric uprising at the end of the middle age would ensure that it would remain that way until someone got either nukes or marines to take them down...

On the bright side I had 7k plus in my trasuries, and my scientific infrastructure was quite sturdy. I was half an age in advance of the Odans, and he was far too weak to prove any threat. But I knew there had to be hidden lands somewhere out under the darkness of the ocean horizon. My worker count was strengthened with many slaves from my campaigns, but I needed quite many more to be fully prepared for my industrial railroadbuilding.

I'm not sure if I get to finish this game, and I'm still not done with the industrial age... But I'll try to see if this night prove to be sufficient to reach my conquest goal.

Edit: And so it ends. Have a few hours of gametime left. But too little time left to finish it. Better luck in India I guess...