This is the run off from the previous poll.
It will also be open for 72 hours.
Happy voting citizens :)

The Mayans! Our early boost will put us way ahead of all the other nations! And, we only have a 40% less chance of getting a SGL so its not out of the question ;)

2nd Choice is tied with Celts and Sumeria. Celts for a UU thats cheaper than before, very powerful (and also comes when we are a tad more established), religious which, unlike a trait like commercial, will come in handy for us--even if not majorly. And of course the celts are agricultural.

3rd choice is Sumeria. Also agricultural, has a lovely UU--especially for fighting barbarians--and the scientific gamble--if we get lucky--will make us ultra cool.

wow, i am surprised at the results of this so far

I'm thinking the same as Hygro. You seem to read my mind. :)

I voted for Maya.

Originally posted by croxis
wow, i am surprised at the results of this so far

Yes, very interesting. But looking good. :)

I vote Japan (again)

This seems to come out as a very tough decision. Let's hope this ends well. :)

if the results show no clear majority for the second or third place, we may need to do a revote with the top 4 or 5

Japan is by far the worst choice, with a mediocre UU that comes too far away, and no early boosting traits. Even Spain is better, as its being seafaring will allow us contact with the entire world.

After those terrible and bad choices respectively, the rest are fairly decent.

Yeah. No clear 2. and 3. choice. We'll have to wait a little longer... But no more than friday.

With all due respect, but won't we get the same results as we have in the previous poll? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Hygro
Japan is by far the worst choice, with a mediocre UU that comes too far away, and no early boosting traits. Even Spain is better, as its being seafaring will allow us contact with the entire world.

After those terrible and bad choices respectively, the rest are fairly decent.

I totally disagree.
The Samurai unit does not need horses but functions a knight. It is the first mobile unit that has good attack and defence. This makes warfare a lot easier in the M Ages. Also the Golden Age and increased production comes at a time when the Great Wonders are far more useful and don't have an expiry date.
On the whole I think Japan is an excellent choice.

Japan is by far the worst choice, with a mediocre UU that comes too far away, and no early boosting traits.

Thanks, Peri, for saving me some typing. ;)

Also, as far as early boosting goes, it doesn't get much better than cheap Temples and cheap Barracks(and Walls and Harbors........)

Go Japan!

Peri, in the PTW MSDG, half the players lost in the ancient ages. To keep a competitive edge, we need to be strong in the beginning. The Mayans are perfect for that. The Japanese are not.

I'd take England or America over Japan, and we wouldn't even use those UUs

Hygro, what you may not know is that 5 other teams have the Mayans on their wish list, so there is a very good chance we will not get them.

With the Miltary trait that Japan provides, we will be able to react more quickly to threats by building the needed walls or barracks for half cost. Granted, it will be a tough road at first, but if we make it to the early Middle Ages, we are assured of sticking around for awile.

Looking at the results, I think we should go with Japan. It isn't on everyone else's wishlist and it is tied with the highest amount of votes. Then maybe Maya second and Persia third, unless new votes come and change it.

BTW, I didn't vote for Japan but would still support using them.

i agree

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
Hygro, what you may not know is that 5 other teams have the Mayans on their wish list, so there is a very good chance we will not get them.
Hence my backup in the Celts. Or hell, Aztecs if we must be militaristic. Sumeria's not a bad choice either.

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
With the Miltary trait that Japan provides, we will be able to react more quickly to threats by building the needed walls or barracks for half cost. Granted, it will be a tough road at first, but if we make it to the early Middle Ages, we are assured of sticking around for awile.

That's what we said about picking China in the PtWISDG. Doesn't seem to be as advantages as we'd like, does it? The cheap walls haven't done anything another trait would have more than made up for. Would you rather have throw away priced walls and 4 cities, or cheap walls and 6? I'd go with the 6 any day.

To settle this, We should have a final poll with the top three choices from this poll as the only options.

Actually, I have no problem making the Mayans our first choice. If we make them the second choice then we will not get them, as several other teams have made them their first choice.

Yet now it looks like Japan is in the running for the top spot, and if we submit our results that way Japan is what we will get.

If this poll holds up, let's submit:

Maya
Japan
Persia

It will give us a shot at the Mayans, plus a formidable back-up plan. Sound good?

Doesn't seem to be as advantages as we'd like, does it?

Unlike the PTW game, I will be here from Turn 1 to ensure that we don't spend the entire Ancient Age with only two workers. So please try not to blame all of our ISDG woes on the Military trait. ;)

That is good to hear DZ. :)

Though I would still like to suggest a civ with an early UU. Other teams will know that it when we get our UU as Japan, and will probably be prepeared to face it if we plan to use it for attacks...
The Sumerian Enkidu warrior on the other hand will give us a very good, very early and very cheap defender, able to defend all the new cities off a fast growing empire.

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi


If this poll holds up, let's submit:

Maya
Japan
Persia

It will give us a shot at the Mayans, plus a formidable back-up plan. Sound good?


I concur. Sounds like a good plan.

I don't like it, but it'll have to do. :undecide: Personally I'd turn the list around.

I support what DZ said. :) Very good plan IMHO, we would never get the Maya if we don't put them as choice 1. And now, even if we don't get them, we shall have a very good civ as a backup. :)

If there isn't anyone else going for Japan, then it would be a great idea. Does anyone know? I wouldn't want to be screwed out of both nations.

IIRC noone is going for Japan at least on their first choice, and I doubt second either. :) Not sure of the third...

Playing in the beta, and having the game since it was out, I've had ample opertunity to know that if we want to be an awsome civ, agricultural is the way to go. Please reconsider both Persia and Japan.

I think if we could do this same poll, but have 2 choices, then we'd probably have better (reflecting public oppion) results.

Also, note this (tallying from 13 votes)
6 votes industrious
6 votes for agricultural,
5 votes religious (spain is rel/sea right?)
4 votes scientific
3 votes militaristic
2 votes seafaring

This would indicate that we'd want in this order:
1) Maya
2) Egypt
3) Celts or Sumeria
4) China, or Babylon
5) Carthage, Aztecs or Japan
6) Netherlands or Spain

Thus actually Japan is pretty unpopular trait wise based on these votes.

Now for UU votes within various "rows" of techs (starting with warriors AND spearman as level 1)

Ancient Ages
Level 1) 5
Level 2) 3
Level 3) 1
Level 4) 0 (no units in level 4)
Middle Ages
Level 5) 0
Level 6) 3
Level 7) 0
Level 8) 1

As you can see, ~66% of us want ancient age UUs, once again making Japan relatively unpopular. It just seems us agricultural folk are voting all over the map.

Well, we'd best decide this fast, we have to post our options by midnight!

Hey, what should our leader be called?

Oh, and one more thing: I'm gonna vote for us and submit the list suggested by DZ if noone has any objactions and CG doesn't show up.

I've sended our civ choices suggested by DZ (and which is actually the order of the poll. ;)) to the UN thread.

Sorry CG if I stepped on your toes but someone had to do it because we have time only until midnight...

Only one team plus us have chosen Maya as #1 choice so far. :) I'm pretty sure we're gonna get 'em. :D

Lucky you. :undecide:

Whaddaya mean? They're propably the best civ traits for a MSDG.

That's what you think, but I don't like military and would prefer religious much more. But alas, I have to give in to the majority.

So when do we find out what Civ we get?

When they decide how teams are slpit up.

Originally posted by Matrix
That's what you think, but I don't like military and would prefer religious much more. But alas, I have to give in to the majority. Look at my earlier post. Those who voted militaristic are not in the majority. They are in the minority. However, they all seemed to vote for 1 country.

We are BTW almost surely getting to be the Maya as only one other team wanted to be them and there shall be two games before the final so I'm almost sure that we're gonna get them. :D

Think of it this way:

Sumeria - Enkidu Swarm (swarm your opponent with Enkidus, and fast. They won't know what to do). No resource, but an early GA.

Maya - Agr/Ind., one of the best trait combos, plus they can enslave! Requires no resources, either!

Celts - Rel/Agr. Their Gallic Swords can be mean once you get in a golden age. (Swarm your opponent with 40 gallics at once! YIKES!!!). Need to have iron, which is rare in C3C.

Japan - Middle Ages UU (Middle Ages are rarely seen in true MP games). Need iron.

Spain - Mediorce. The only use is a Conquistador Army.

Byzantines - Dromons!!! You can bombard units lethaly with these things! Great for continental and archipelago warfare.

Persia - Ind/Sci. One's toned down, the other's beefed up. But, I think Gallics really give the Immortals a run for their money now.

I think we'd be really good as the Maya. With no resources, 2 attack and 2 defense, we don't have to worry about building spears as much, and being without resources. Gallics would be my 2nd choice. Not to mention, they're both Agricultural. (1 cattle + 1 river tile = instant settler factory).

Originally posted by Wizard
We are BTW almost surely getting to be the Maya as only one other team wanted to be them and there shall be two games before the final so I'm almost sure that we're gonna get them. :D

It's starting to look that way, Wizard. :) Something else that is quite noteworthy is that if things pan out this way, then the Scandinavians(Vikings) will be an opponent in either game as well. And that would mean that GCA would have the Berzerk at their disposal.

Keep an eye on this UN thread (http://cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?t=5520&start=35&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=) for up-to-date info. And as this was one of the final decisions, we may want to start the nomination process going. It won't be long now...... :D

Yeah. Gotta check out what ministers etc are needed from the constitution, and we can start the nominations. :D

Thank you Chieftess for backing me up. Japanophiles, surrender your stubborness so just in case we can pick a better back up (I advocate either celts or sumeria--probably celts)

I have no problem with the Celts, Hygro, but someone else already has the Celts as their first choice. And I wouldn't call it stubbornness either. ;) In any event, we will look silly if we change our plans at the UN now.

Let's see if we get the Mayans first. I think that we will.

I think being prideful and not changing the vote--if we actually agreed on a different line up (also we could be other good civs like Aztecs instead of Celts, or Inca too. Both are good civs)--is worse as we will have a weaker civ and lose the game more easily. I mean, have you seen who we are up against? FriedricPtalsin or whatever his name is, CDZ is playing... this does NOT look like an easy game. We need all the early advantages we can get. However, with us having the Mayans most likely, things look promising.

I am well aware of who we are up against, and the two you mentioned scare me the most. I am also concerned about the prospect of GCA with Berzerks! Not to mention the teams we are already well aware of, like Poly, CGN and the German Webring.

Yes, it will be tough, but proper implementation of Japan's military trait would still keep us in the game. But I still don't think it is going to come to that. The way the team divisions have been presented in the UN, I really think we are going to get the Mayans.

Well, hopefully if we start next to GCA again, we can as the Mayans stop them before they get those beserks, and make slaves while we do!

That's why the Maya are a very good civ for a PBEM and also other MP games. :D

The object of most MP games is early and agressive attack. I even said at the start of the Civ3 MSDG just that.

We'll need:

1. a few good production cities (about 5) so that we have enough production to produce units (say it's the Javelineer) every 2-5 turns.

2. Build Javs like no tomorrow and overwhelm the opponent. Unlike the computer, the human opponent will *NOT* keep just 1-2 units in a city. They'll keep 10-20 if they see an attack coming.

3. Catapults. The MP crowd loves these things.

4. Agricultural - There's a reason "aggie"-civs are chosen more. Fast growth. Growth = Land Grab = Power. 1 cattle + 1 river = instant settler factory (after irragating the cattle). Japan is NOT a popular MP civ, and I know from experience during testing. (half the testers were ladder players). Popular ones included:

Sumeria
Celts
Maya
Aztecs (not as much, but still popular because they're agricultural)

Take a look at the C3C strategy guides in the War Academy section (the 8 meg one). The 2nd file is a quick "checklist" made by Friedrich on which civs are the best for C3C MP.

Take a look at the Civ3 MSDG, and tell me how many civs made it to the middle ages. 1/2. Gamecatcher didn't even get to their UU before being CRIPPLED (not the best thing in a MP game). Choose Japan, and we take 2 big risks.

1. We have iron.
2. We make it to the middle ages. (We were lucky to have CDG and Apolyton on our sides).

BTW, Persia and Japan don't even rank up high on the MP list anymore. Industrial has taken a hit. Religous civs now have a 2 turn maximum for government change. MGLs no longer rush wonders (SGLs do).

:eek: Who in the hell voted for the Japanese??? They are absoloutly the worst. If i'd seen this thread earlier maybe I could have influenced it...

I have no idea If me voting now will change anything, but i'm going for the Persians. The only reason is, is because they are infinately better than the Japs, and thus it would be a tie.

Can we still change our List at Cdgroup? You could just edit it in Wizard ;)

No swearing, even if it's minor.

Middle Ages and higher civs are the LAST civs you want in MP. ;) It's all about the ancient civs, building up fast, and overwhelming the opposistion.

CT got the point.

And, we're almost sure to get the Maya, so no fear that we would be the terrible Japan civ...:)

and who knows, maybe we'll start with ivory as our "resource" ;)

You like Ancient Cavalry?

Originally posted by Chieftess
Middle Ages and higher civs are the LAST civs you want in MP. ;) It's all about the ancient civs, building up fast, and overwhelming the opposistion.
I was hoping Civ3 would be a bit more interesting. :undecide:

Originally posted by Wizard
You like Ancient Cavalry? My only fear is that if we get the SoZ everyone will team against us.

Matrix, it would be nice if multiplayer wasn't like this, but it is :(

But luckily people are very cunning and know how to make it harder to beat 'em. :)

Ok,when is the poll going to time out?

It closed on the 18th Jan CG, but I cant explain why it hasnt 'timed out'.

Originally posted by Peri
It closed on the 18th Jan CG, but I cant explain why it hasnt 'timed out'.

We can have DZ time it out for you :)