First of all, I would like to thank Dianthus for helping me out on this project. Without your extensive works on reading/analyzing the save game file, this utility wouldn't be possible.:) On my list, you are one of the best C++ coder around here. Dianthus, a big hug and thank to you!:)

I also would like to thank Gramphos, sirp, Hot-bandito, and Aeson for their research on the .SAV file format and its compression format. Without their contribution, this project wouldn't be possible.

:thanx:

--------

Well, I did it! This is a utility that will help you find that perfect map for your HoF game.

Since I don't know much about the format of the savegame, I recruited Dianthus to help me out on this one. Thanks Dianthus!:) It's really a join development effort between him and me. I do the user interface (.EXE) and he read the savegame and check for the domination limit (.DLL).:)

Here is a screenshot of it (edit: old screenshot was deleted after 4912 views; the one below is from the latest version):

Version 6.5 (as of 04/20/2005):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MapFinder_v65b.zip

Additonal features as follows:

MapFinder will now recognize multiple rule sets. In order to do that, you need to add rules as follows:

#1. Setup your Rules

#2. Save your rule to the "rules" directory (it will create/and default to that directory automatically).

#3. Go back to step #1 to create another set of rules or whatever. Create as many set of rules as you like. Please try to give each set of rules a meaningful name when you save it!

#4. After you have setup all your rules, launch it as usual.

Note: You must have at least one rule set save to the "rules" directory in order to find any map. Whenever MapFinder search for maps, it will attempt to satisfy every set of rules stored in the "rules" directory. Btw, this rules directory can be located in the MapFinder directory.

New feature:
To reverse the sort direction, just click on the header of a column that has already been sorted. Other than the first two columns, the sort direction (either ascending or descending) will be reversed.

---------------

Please remember three things when running MapFinder:

1. File/Setup menu is your friend. Always check your setup and verify your setting before generating new maps.
2. Be sure to tell MapFinder the correct AUTO SAVE directory of Civ/PTW/C3C (depending on which version of the game that you are playing). If you forget to do this step, MapFinder won't generate map (it still run just fine, but it won't give you any map)
3. Remember to start "New Game" first and activate MapFinder when you are inside Civ3/PTW/C3C (any time during or after 4000BC but not before 4000BC).

For explaination of how to fine tune the two extra sleep functions, check out this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2451851&postcount=396). Discussion about this version was started around page 20 of this thread.

Note: This version is bug free and it should work well with all version of CIV3/PTW/C3C with US keyboard layout. If your system default keyboard layout isn't US, you need to temporarily set your keyboard to US before running MapFinder.

---------------

Installation Instruction:
Unpack utility "mapfinder.zip" to a directory of your choice and create a shotcut for the "mapfinder.exe".

---------------

How to use this utlity:
1. Launch the "mapfinder" utility before/after launching Civ3/PTW/C3C
2. Start a "New Game" (very important! You must do this!)
3. Choose Your World! (very important! You must do this!)
4. Go through "Player Setup" and select "Difficulty" level or whatever you like. (again, this is part of the starting up new game process! You must do this before you can play!)
5. That's it! You are now at 4000BC. This is the place where you start MapFinder

Technical Note: Basically, the program will work exactly as follows:

1. Tell Civ3/PTW/C3C to start a new game
2. Check for the domination limit or whatever
3. If the requirement (your rule set) is meet, save the game at the beginning of the 4000BC turn and and take a screenshot of the starting location.
4. Go back to step 1. This is an infinite loop until you stop it or whenever its find the max number of maps that you have asked for.

Kudos to you both. I know this utility will get lots of use here. not only when i make my HOF attempts (coming to an forum near you.) but my general practice games as well. Am looking forward to future updates when your time permits.:goodjob:



Of course an link to the file will probably make it easier to download:D

I'm interested in a blue one. Can I get an optional CD player with this?

Just kidding, Moonsinger. I anticipate using this once I have need to generate maps again...

:thanx:

Sorry, I forgot to include the zipfile. It's now included in my second post.:) Also, each unit of the "time delay" = 1/1000 of a second. Therefore, 7000 = 7 seconds. I will have to do some unit conversion in the final version.;)

Btw, I have done a test run of it for about 1 hour. Just found 2 map with domination limit of 4512 and 4514. One of them right on the river and next to a cow!:)

PS: For starter, I recommend the default "time delay" which currently set for C3C. For PTW and Civ3, you may want to cut that number down in half (note: C3C take twice as long in loading/saving). In any case, do not set them to lower values during your first attempt.;)

Great News Moonsinger (and Dianthus) :goodjob:

Well, I downloaded it and tried to launch it::(

Originally posted by superslug
Well, I downloaded it and tried to launch it::(

//Edit: I was wrong about it! That file dependancy is coming from my EXE. Sorry, Dianthus! Here is the new one standalone that doesn't require any "qtintf70.dll" (Delphi CLX runtime library which I don't need!):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/mapfinder2.zip

Have you thought about modifying this to work with random multiplayer maps? I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in having a utility which will quickly tell them if all starting positions are within a certain range.

Originally posted by Aeson
Have you thought about modifying this to work with random multiplayer maps? I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in having a utility which will quickly tell them if all starting positions are within a certain range.

Well, that 's really up to Dianthus. I don't have a Borland C++ Builder 5 or 6 compiler and I'm not good with C++ either (I haven't done much C++ since my college day). Sure, I can read C++ code very well, but other than that I can't really do anything else with it.:cry: Therefore, it's really up to you guys to recruit Dianthus on whatever new adventure/utility for the multiplayers.

PS: I also just found a really good map last night (after about 1000 iterations). Domination limit of over 4552 next to cow and river (deity level); when I have time, will see if I can break 60K.;)

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Therefore, it's really up to you guys to recruit Dianthus on whatever new adventure/utility for the multiplayers.

So, does that mean you're happy to do the GUI if I do the sav stuff in C++? I haven't done much with multiplayer .savs, apart from reading one test one when getting CRpViewer to work with [c3c]. Aeson, what sort of criteria are you thinking of? Are you saying you want to know how close the human player start positions are?

Ok, I will do the GUI if you can do the core. However, if we are going to continue this partnership, I think I need to get a C++ Builder compiler soon. Why interfacing with the DLL when I should be leaning how interface with its core directly?;)

Aeson, what sort of criteria are you thinking of? Are you saying you want to know how close the human player start positions are?

A few times groups of players have come to me to make sure their starting positions in a PBEM are balanced (within reason). I was thinking about a utility that looks at each start location and either gives a thumbs up or rejects the map without disclosing any information about the starts. It seems like you're pretty close to that with this.

Make the parameters configurable. A range of 'good' tiles within a certain radius. So a group starting a PBEM could just generate a map, run the utility, and see if each player has at least 5 useable tiles within a radius of 3... or whatever. That would allow them to filter out maps where one or more starting locations aren't viable.

Originally posted by Aeson
A few times groups of players have come to me to make sure their starting positions in a PBEM are balanced (within reason). I was thinking about a utility that looks at each start location and either gives a thumbs up or rejects the map without disclosing any information about the starts. It seems like you're pretty close to that with this.

Make the parameters configurable. A range of 'good' tiles within a certain radius. So a group starting a PBEM could just generate a map, run the utility, and see if each player has at least 5 useable tiles within a radius of 3... or whatever. That would allow them to filter out maps where one or more starting locations aren't viable.

Actually, I think he's already there! I have seen his source code for the CivReplay program - very well written! Basically, he had created an object that read almost very single detail about the savegame into memory. Now, the sky is really the limit for the rest. Just write another function to calculate the total of food, shield, and resource within n tile radius for each starting position - me think it will be a piece of cake for Dianthus. I'm sure he can make sure that each PBEM player has almost the same amount of food, shield bonus, and resource within n tiles from their starting position without much of a problem!

Time like this, I wish I have half of his talent. Seriously, sometimes I really wish I have more brain.:cry:

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Time like this, I wish I have half of his talent. Seriously, sometimes I really wish I have more brain.:cry:
:blush:. I think you're being a bit hard on yourself though. After all, you've done a good job on the GUI. Oh, and I've seen you play Civ :).

Originally posted by Aeson
A range of 'good' tiles within a certain radius. So a group starting a PBEM could just generate a map, run the utility, and see if each player has at least 5 useable tiles within a radius of 3... or whatever. That would allow them to filter out maps where one or more starting locations aren't viable.

I'm just writing some functions right now that will give total food/shields/gold for the start tile and surrounding 8. I should think that would be a good enough comparison for the start location.

I just downloaded this again and ran it for a few minutes for maps with a domination limit of 3500 (I wanted to see how it worked without waiting an hour;) ). All I can say is that this program rocks! :band:

Moonsinger and Dianthus, the two of you have created something that's going to save me hundreds of hours "between" games generating maps. I'd have been ecstatic just to have .savs generated at a certain domination limit, but to have included accompanying screenshots? Goodness gracious...

:thanx::thanx::thanx::thanx::thanx:

By the way, thank you!

Originally posted by Dianthus
I'm just writing some functions right now that will give total food/shields/gold for the start tile and surrounding 8. I should think that would be a good enough comparison for the start location.

Instead of just calculating the total of food/shields/gold for the starting 8 tiles radius, I think you can just add another arguement to that function and have it recursively calculate the total of food/shields/gold for the Nth ring from the starting location - a lot like your RCP ring function.;) Of course, for this MapFinder utility, I would simply pass it the radius of 1.:) Basically, you are giving birth to an API for Civ3!:goodjob:

Originally posted by superslug
I just downloaded this again and ran it for a few minutes for maps with a domination limit of 3500 (I wanted to see how it worked without waiting an hour;) ). All I can say is that this program rocks! :band:

Hehe, wait until you see the final version.;)

Wow.. API for Civ3 for Windows for PC for me!
Can.. can u give me the code??
I'd love to learn it and advise!

Regards,
Chaim.

Wowee! [party] [dance] Thank you so much Moonsinger and Dianthus!

This is an inspired utility, makes me want to start a new HOF game :)

I'm about to head out for a ten hour shift at work, so I'm going to leave this delight of a program running for twelve hours when I'm gone computing maps. I'm going to set it for C3C 1.15 pangaea/warm/wet/5billion and a domination limit of 4001 tiles. I'll post again when I get home as to how many .sav's I have.

Since computer specs will likely have an effect on how fast this program runs, my processor is 1.1-1.3ghz Athlon (don't recall exactly) and 3xx megs of RAM.

Originally posted by superslug
I'm about to head out for a ten hour shift at work, so I'm going to leave this delight of a program running for twelve hours when I'm gone computing maps. I'm going to set it for C3C 1.15 pangaea/warm/wet/5billion and a domination limit of 4001 tiles. I'll post again when I get home as to how many .sav's I have.

Since computer specs will likely have an effect on how fast this program runs, my processor is 1.1-1.3ghz Athlon (don't recall exactly) and 3xx megs of RAM.

I think the default values (1000, 9000, 1000, 7000) should work just fine on your system. I set the time delays on my P4 3.4 GHz as (1000, 4000, 1000, 3000). You can pretty much time the number of second between those screens and adjust it accordingly (please note that I will make it to remember your configure so that you don't have to fine tune it each time - on the next version). For example, if it's spending too much time at the "Choose Your World" screen before moving to the "Player Setup" screen, just decrease the time delay for the "New Game" screen from 9000 down to 7000 or something. By adding all those time delays all together, you can pretty much know how long it takes to iterate a game.:)

Even for the (1000, 9000, 1000, 7000) config for most slow system, it would take about (1+9+1+7) = about 20 second per iteration. If you run it for about 3 hours, 60*60*3 div 20 = 540 iterations right there. I'm sure it will find a few dozen maps out of those 540 games for you to pick. ;)

Would there be anything wrong with just setting the values to 0001 to let it blitz through, or would that be going to low?

Also, which value should I leave at default to give myself time to click on the M to shut the program down?

I didn't click on the M earlier and just shut Civ itself down. It was really kind of funny watching your program try and generate maps from Internet Explorer. I should've heeded your earlier warning about making sure to click on the M, but hey, no damage done and now I know how to do it properly.

Originally posted by superslug
Would there be anything wrong with just setting the values to 0001 to let it blitz through, or would that be going to low?

You should not set it any lower than 1000 ms or 1 second. Please note that Civ application need to have enough time to do its business or the whole thing will not work. For example, if you tell Civ3 to save a game or load a game, you need to give your hard drive enough IO time, etc. If you actually time the status bar in Civ3 during loading or saving, you can tell that it would take a few second right there defending on the speed of your system and your hard drive. Therefore, you must not blitz it through.

Also, which value should I leave at default to give myself time to click on the M to shut the program down?
No, you can't not adjust that value. It's actually equal to 1000 ms! Basically, I let your system to have about 1 second to relax and to ready for the next run.

I didn't click on the M earlier and just shut Civ itself down. It was really kind of funny watching your program try and generate maps from Internet Explorer. I should've heeded your earlier warning about making sure to click on the M, but hey, no damage done and now I know how to do it properly.
No harm done! You can terminate it anyway you like, but please do try to terminate it gracefully by clicking the M icon.:)

Originally posted by Moonsinger
...but please do try to terminate it gracefully by clicking the M icon.
Well, I'll definitely terminate it through clicking the M from now on. I don't know about the graceful part though, I don't really know anything about terminating things with grace. Anyone who's downloaded my HOF Chieftain game and looked at the last turn in the .sav knows what I'm talking about.:lol:

It's now officially version 1.0:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/mapfinder1-0.zip

If you have previously tested the Alpha version, please make sure you clean out old output directory (basically, start out with a fresh and empty Output directory for this one). From now on, it will keep track of its internal counter and previous settings and the Output directory doesn't have to be empty the next time you run. I also put a cap of 256 acceptable games for each batch (just in case someone don't know what they are doing, I don't really want to fill up their hard drive with zillion of save games:D)

Next version:

1. Optional check for bonus food/shield/river feature
2. HTML report at the end of each batch with the table listing of the result plus runtime and map statistic. You can thanks Dianthus for this feature; I'm really lazy with these report card, but he sweet talked me into it.;)
?. The rest will be based upon your request. Have fun! :)

Originally posted by Moonsinger
1. Optional check for bonus food/shield/river feature
Thanks for all the hard work! I have more of an idea than an actual request. If it's not too hard, could you add luxuries to the food/shield/river options? I'd love to let my computer sit there and generate maps until it found one with all four!

The 256 batch cap is a great idea...

This is going to save me so much time, I might actually be able to beat one of your scores Moonsinger!...Wait a minute, you don't have any games on Monarch. Nevermind...:rolleyes: :lol:

Originally posted by superslug
If it's not too hard, could you add luxuries to the food/shield/river options? I'd love to let my computer sit there and generate maps until it found one with all four!

With the screenshot that I have provided for the selected map, I think you should have no problem spotting out the luxuries.;) Anyway, I concur with what you said, it would be nice if we can find a map with all four at the starting location.:)

In the meantime, I just PMed Aeson if it's ok to include his formula for calculating the possible potential score for the HoF map at 4000BC (just like what he is doing for the GOTM). Imaging knowing what score you are going to get (within +- 2000 points of course) before playing, is it too much of a spoiler? Is it legal for the HoF game?

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Anyway, I concur with what you said, it would be nice if we can find a map with all four at the starting location.:)

I'm not sure this is even possible. Doesn't the map generator tend to cluster resources of the same type together and seperate different resources?

Originally posted by Dianthus
I'm not sure this is even possible. Doesn't the map generator tend to cluster resources of the same type together and seperate different resources?

I think the "four" things that Superslug said was

1. food
2. shield
3. river
4. luxury

Personally, I don't think luxury at the starting location would help determine the highscore in the end. Sure, it's nice to have, but it isn't that important for a highscore game. On the other hand, the bonus of food/shield/river is very important for us to quickly setup the second and third city and so on. After we have a handful number of towns, we could easily pumping out troops to look for nearby luxuries. Therefore, luxury at the starting location doesn't benefit much in a milk game (well, may be few extra point for those happy faces and some extra gold - not much really).

I downloaded this utility yesterday and ran some test worlds all the way down to a domination limit of 3300 but have yet to get any save game files in a Civ3Map folder. At 8:00 AM PST I started another run at a domination limit of 3800 so will be able to see if I have any when I get home for lunch at 11:30 AM PST (I live 7 minutes from work). Where exactly will I find the Civ3Map folder?

In the meantime, I just PMed Aeson if it's ok to include his formula for calculating the possible potential score for the HoF map at 4000BC (just like what he is doing for the GOTM). Imaging knowing what score you are going to get (within +- 2000 points of course) before playing, is it too much of a spoiler? Is it legal for the HoF game?

The GOTM formula requires knowlege of the map and wouldn't be acceptable. Other simpler formulas that are derived from only the domination limit would be ok.

Originally posted by Svar
... and ran some test worlds all the way down to a domination limit of 3300 but have yet to get any save game files ...
Svar, are you generating huge maps? If not then the domination limit will have to be quite a bit lower!

Can someone tell me why this wouldn't be like cheating? :p

Sure, might eliminate the fact that those who randomly get good maps will win the HOF more easily. (If everyone playing the HOF uses this program, otherwise it will be worse.)

I don't know... I'm still thorn about it.

Originally posted by Svar
Where exactly will I find the Civ3Map folder?

Save game and screen shot that meet the domination limit requirement that you are looking for.

Originally posted by Aeson
The GOTM formula requires knowlege of the map and wouldn't be acceptable. Other simpler formulas that are derived from only the domination limit would be ok.
Are you referring to the need to look at the map to derive some of the inputs to the GOTM formula, or that the score output from the formula would constitute "knowledge of the map"? If the former then maybe a way to programmatically derive those inputs without the aid of a user would be possible, so avoiding the need for the user to gain that knowledge?

Originally posted by Grey Fox
Can someone tell me why this wouldn't be like cheating? :p

Because it doesn't do anything you can't do by hand. You can create random maps and reject them based on the start location and mapstats already, this utility just automates the rejection process!

Well, I don't think mapstats should be used either.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
Can someone tell me why this wouldn't be like cheating? :p

It's not cheating because this program just simply save you time in looking for a good random map. Sure, it may be looking for river and food bonus at the starting position but that's no different than what you would normally do at 4000BC anyway. The only different is that it can evaluate at least 1000 savegames per night while it would take the human month to do the same thing.

Originally posted by Aeson
The GOTM formula requires knowlege of the map and wouldn't be acceptable. Other simpler formulas that are derived from only the domination limit would be ok.

Thanks for your quick answer!:) Sure, it may be nice to know the potential score by summing up the total of land type based on the mapstat but let's not walk on thin ice.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
Well, I don't think mapstats should be used either.

1. The old traditional way without Mapstat:
Without mapstats, you need to play until around 500 BC or whenever you have gained access to the complete worldmap. Now you can manually count the total of land tiles to determine the domination limit and potential score. If it's too small or lack of potential score, reject it ans start over. In other to find a good map, this manual procedure would take about 6 hours per map.

2. The Aeson's approved way with Mapstat:
Since Aeson approved the use of Mapstat at 4000BC for picking map, you can start a new game, check maptat, then acept or reject. This process would take about 3 mins per game and it's really boring if you have to do it 1000 times.

3. Using this utility:
This utility would do exactly the same as #2, except that the computer is doing it for us while we are sleeping.

Since this is really the modern age, the traditional way as in #1 and #2 seem really boring. If everyone has to do that, chances are only a few lucky people who have no real life can get in the HoF.;) Since we are just cutting the boring map picking step as in #3, we should be seeing more people trying for the HoF which also means less chance for Moonsinger to be at the top slot.:cry: Basically, I just shot myself in the foot.:cry:;)

Well, I don't play the HoF. I don't like to compete with the score system in Civ3 (that's why I started the tournament ;)). And I hate milking, so...

Anyhow, I tried this app out. And it didn't save any map at all in the folder I specified. And if you are not in civ3 while using the app, it can do some crazy stuff :P

Will the code (dsw/dsp/c/cpp/???) be released to us??
I really love 2 have it!

Originally posted by Grey Fox
Anyhow, I tried this app out. And it didn't save any map at all in the folder I specified. And if you are not in civ3 while using the app, it can do some crazy stuff :P

What is the speed of your processor? I'm just wondering if the Time Delay values need to be increase a little bit, especially at the SaveGame screen. Also, what map type and the range of the domination limit that you are looking for? Basically, if you set the domination limit range from 0 to 6000, you should get every savegame under the sun (I mean for testing purpose...I do not recommend this for real).

Yes, you must be in Civ3! In the next version, I will check for the instant of Civ3/PTW/C3C before telling to do anything. And you also must already start a New Game procedure in Civ3......then launch this baby at the 4000BC screen.

Originally posted by Moonsinger
You must also set the "Output/Save Directory" to an empty directory (for savegame). Since this is an Alpha version, you need to create that directory by using Windows Explorer (for now) then click "Ok".

I'm computer illiterate, how do I accomplish this?

Originally posted by Svar
I'm computer illiterate, how do I accomplish this?

You no longer need to do this! Just down load version 1 and it will automatically create a directory if that doesn't exist. Of course, it will ask you for permission to create a directory before actually doing so.

Originally posted by boogaboo
Will the code (dsw/dsp/c/cpp/???) be released to us??
I really love 2 have it!

Sure, do you have resource/gold/tech/luxury to trade?;) If not, then you may have to charm me first somehow.;) I'm sure I would have no problem in releasing my codes to Aeson, SirPleb, or Dianthus, .... because I'm already under their spells.;) In any case, if you have a programming problem that you need help, you can just post it at the Computer Talk Forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=73) and we will see what we can do (free of charge, of course).

Originally posted by Moonsinger
What is the speed of your processor? I'm just wondering if the Time Delay values need to be increase a little bit, especially at the SaveGame screen. I got a 1.6 Ghz.

Originally posted by Moonsinger Also, what map type and the range of the domination limit that you are looking for? Basically, if you set the domination limit range from 0 to 6000, you should get every savegame under the sun (I mean for testing purpose...I do not recommend this for real).[/B]I just the default value.

And, OH! I just standard map :rolleyes: --- probably because it's to small for that domination range... ok, well that's that.

Originally posted by Moonsinger


You no longer need to do this! Just down load version 1 and it will automatically create a directory if that doesn't exist. Of course, it will ask you for permission to create a directory before actually doing so.

Thanks, I downloaded version 1 at noon but haven't tried it yet. FYI, I ran a test to see how fast I was creating new worlds and I could create 10 in 2 minutes if I didn't find any to save. Using my old method I have 6 saved worlds with 1 or 2 cows in the starting 9 tiles, 5 of them on rivers but the domination limits for these worlds range from 3650 to 3925. Unfortunately the 3925 one is the world without any river. I'm using the Mayans so being on a river gives me 3 food in the starting location. I also discovered that I need to relearn the C3C resources as I found a new world that had 3 oases in the starting 9 tiles so played it for 50 turns to see if I could generate a 4 turn settler factory. It worked as you could either irrigate or mine them to give the required plus 5 food surplus or the equivilant of mined bonus grassland.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
I got a 1.6 Ghz.

I just the default value.

Yes, the default value should work for the 1.6 Ghz. :)

And, OH! I just standard map :rolleyes: --- probably because it's to small for that domination range... ok, well that's that.

Yes, the default domination limit of 4500 is for a huge map. For a standard map, it's probably going to be about half that, I think.

Originally posted by Moonsinger


Sure, do you have resource/gold/tech/luxury to trade?;) If not, then you may have to charm me first somehow.;)


Hmmm... my resources are my RAm machine and brain, I don't have gold but ok with money, tech is ok, since most people are dum, and luxury? I already smoke, thnx!
Also, I am not the "Dark Ranger" from Warcraft3, so I can't charm u.

U a man or women?
Nvm, I can't charm either one.

I am a programmer though - very good in C, less in C++.
Less in GUI, more in data structures and algorithms..
I know math..

Gimme the code!
Give it 2 me baby, aha aha!
[pimp]

Chaim.

Just wanted to report that this utility works as advertised and is a great addition to the tools we need to play HOF games. I probably wont be turning off my computer any time soon. When I'm not actively playing C3C I will be searvhing for good worlds to play. Thanks a bunch, Moonsinger!

Please remember to thank Dianthus too. Without Dianthus and his extensive works on reading/analyzing the save game file, this utility wouldn't be possible.:) As far as I know, he is one of the best C++ coder around here. Let's drink to that!:beer:

The credits would also go to Gramphos, sirp, Hot-bandito, and Aeson for their research on the .SAV file format and its compression format. Without their contribution, this project wouldn't be possible.

Last but not least, thanks to everyone who have tested it.:)

Moonsinger
1. I run this program, but it didn't work - after saving file as "tmp.sav", it is trying to save it next time as "tmp.sav" and question "Rewrite it?" appeared, destructing all system of generation.
2. Why don't use "Quick start" option??? It is faster!
3. Why 3 minutes per attempt? It takes only 10-20 seconds for me.

Originally posted by IgrOK
1. I run this program, but it didn't work - after saving file as "tmp.sav", it is trying to save it next time as "tmp.sav" and question "Rewrite it?" appeared, destructing all system of generation.

Remember to give it a blank directory to work with and you won't have that problem! Btw, what OS are you using? Anyway, that's an easy fix and I will fix it in the next version. In the mean time, just make sure that you give it a blank directory to start out with.

2. Why don't use "Quick start" option??? It is faster!
3. Why 3 minutes per attempt? It takes only 10-20 seconds for me.

You may have a good point there! Now, I remember something about the "Quick Start" option to quickly start a new game based on your previous setting. In this case, I will reprogram this utility to take that path. Thanks!:)

I managed to test my speed in manually generating new games and found I could look at 10 new games in 2 minutes if I didn't find any to save. Of course saving any game took a minute or two. The real advantage of this utility is it does all the work when I'm not at my computer, then every time I return it is just like Christmas as I open all my saved worlds to see if I really want to play one. I have about 10 that I will start and play to 1000 BC to see if I want to finish them.

I'm finishing a large world with a domination limit of 2677 just for the practice. It turns out that there is only 1 game at the Monarch level for a large world so my game should get added to the HOF.

Of course saving any game took a minute or two.
Why? I don't understand... It takes not so long for me.

Remember to give it a blank directory to work with and you won't have that problem! Btw, what OS are you using? Anyway, that's an easy fix and I will fix it in the next version. In the mean time, just make sure that you give it a blank directory to start out with.
It didn't help. Now, after first saving of "tmp.sav" it stops normal generation in message "Exit? Yes / No". It can't choose "Yes".

My computer parameters:
- Pentium 3 567Mhz.
- 128Mb SDRAM.
- ATI Rage 16 Mb videocard.
- Win95 (for now, usualy WinXP)

IgrOK,

So far, you are the first to run it with Win95. Me thinks the Windows API "DeleteFile" function doesn't work the same as in Win2K or WinXP. Btw, what is the full path name of your Output Directory?

Would you do one more quick test: set your Output Directory to something short and easy like "C:\temp\testme" to see if it work. I think it probably doesn't like long file name which Win95 had a funny way of handling it.

Originally posted by IgrOK
Why? I don't understand... It takes not so long for me.

Saving and Loading has always been taking a lot of time and it's a lot slower in C3C. I'm talking about the manual process (not talking about this utility). Most of the time, it does take a few minutes for % loading bar to go away (defending on your map size, of course). The bigger the map, the more time it will take.

It didn't help. Now, after first saving of "tmp.sav" it stops normal generation in message "Exit? Yes / No". It can't choose "Yes".

May be your timing is too fast. What do you set it to? Try 2000, 12000, 2000, 12000 to see if it work. Since you have only 128 Mb of RAM, Win95 may need more time.

My Output Dir were "c:\" and "c:\MF".

My process of map generation:

1) Close and stop all except "Civ3" and "Mapstat".
2) Set off all sound and game options.
3) Start "New game" with needed settings.
4) Exit to main menu and go to "Quick start".
5) Repeat intil N=10:

1. Enter. Enter. Ctrl+S. Enter. Alt+Tab. Ctrt+R.

2. If domination limit is big enough than Alt+Tab. Ctrl+S. N (N is number 1, then 2,3,...,10). Enter. Else simple Alt+Tab.

3. Ctrl+Shift+Q. Enter.

6) We have 10 maps with needed domination limit!

Originally posted by IgrOK
2. If domination limit is big enough than Alt+Tab. Ctrl+S. N (N is number 1, then 2,3,...,10). Enter. Else simple Alt+Tab.
Yes, I'm well aware of better way of doing it, but I'm in no hurry of going there. At the moment, this program is just a prototype to help some of us to find a good map for our HoF attempt.

I apologize for not thinking about people who may be using ancient technology like Win95 with 128 Mb of RAM while I was coding it. Well, most people with ancient technology do not milk the game anyway, therefore, would have very little use for this utility.;) Since I assume that the computer is doing all the work anyway, a few extra second longer isn't going to hurt anyone. Therefore, I didn't put too much effort into it.:cry: Sorry, but after a long day at work, I really don't want to do any more work on my computer at home unless I have to.

Originally posted by boogaboo


Hmmm... my resources are my RAm machine and brain, I don't have gold but ok with money, tech is ok, since most people are dum, and luxury? I already smoke, thnx!
Also, I am not the "Dark Ranger" from Warcraft3, so I can't charm u.

U a man or women?
Nvm, I can't charm either one.

I am a programmer though - very good in C, less in C++.
Less in GUI, more in data structures and algorithms..
I know math..

Gimme the code!
Give it 2 me baby, aha aha!
[pimp]

Chaim.



Moonshine!!!!!
What about the code?????:(

This a cool-tool :cool:

A thousand thankyou's Moonsinger :thumbsup:

Scanning through the thread it isnt clear whether we can or cannot use it for HoF attempts ? Can you clarify?

........because it does nothing you can't do manually! (Notwithstanding the already-HOF-approved MapStat program.) :goodjob:

I've added it to the acceptable utility list in the HOF rules thread.

Justa quick note on useability - If your PC's normal resolution is greater than Civ 3's native res of 1024x768, lets say 1280x1024, it presents a problem in that when Civ 3 loads up it automatically sets your resolution to 1024x768 - and therefore puts the Mapfinder button off-screen to the right, hence you cant click it.

Me being a bit thick and all, took me a few attempts to work out what was going wrong :)

Regarding "ancient" technology I have Civ installed on a P2 so naturally this utility takes longer to run than advertised but I still find it is an time saver. I can set it up run it go for coffee with friends or work on one the other computers. I may only get 2 or 3 maps selected within my guidelines an hour but that is more than i would get manually because of the boredom factor. Plus I feel that my time is more productivly used and less guilt over my Civ time. So thanks again Moonsinger. BTW milking is an pain on a P2 but one must be diligent if one wants to rule an empire.

I have followed IgrOK's suggestion on using the QuickStart game option which would save us at least another 10 second per ech iteration. Thanks IgrOK!:) This utility is now updated to version 1.5. See the new download link at the second post. That's it! My work is done for now. I will be out of town for awhile and when I get back, I will add option to look for food/shield/gold bonus at the starting location. Dianthus had update his DLL to calculate food/shield/gold within the 8 squares surrounding starting location, but I haven't had time to write the new interface for it yet.


PS: @boogaboo, I also release most important section of the source for this utility, see the second post! Sorry, can't give you the whole thing because the rest has my home address written all over the place and it would take me forever to clean that up.

Originally posted by fret
Justa quick note on useability - If your PC's normal resolution is greater than Civ 3's native res of 1024x768, lets say 1280x1024, it presents a problem in that when Civ 3 loads up it automatically sets your resolution to 1024x768 - and therefore puts the Mapfinder button off-screen to the right, hence you cant click it.

That could be a problem! How about I will give you an option (in the mapfinder.ini file) to configure the exact X,Y location where you wish this icon to appear. How does that sound? Version 1.6 is now supporting this new feature.

Here is an example of what you can put into the Mapfinder.INI

[Config]
IconPositionX=100
IconPositionY=13

In this example, the icon will be displayed at 13 pixel down from the top of the screen and at 100 pixel horizontally.

Originally posted by Moonsinger


How about I will give you an option (in the mapfinder.ini file) to configure the exact X,Y location where you wish this icon to appear. How does that sound?

Thats unbelievable! Thanks! :)

I just discovered a couple problem with the QuickStart game in PTW and Civ3 (note: this is really an abnormal behavior in Civ3 and PTW).

In PTW v1.27f: You can't select AI opponents! However, you can select the number of opponents. Basically, all AI opponents will be 100% random.

In Civ3 v1.29f: You can select upto 6 AI opponents and the rest will be random

In C3C (all version): The AI opponents will be selected based on your the settings as your previous game. This is really exactly how the QuickStart game option suppose to work.

Enlightening by this discovery, I think I will have to an option check box to the MapFinder program so that we have choice to start new game with the QuickStart path or the New Game path. I will implement this as soon as I have some free time.

Are these supposed to be spelt like this ? :)

Originally posted by fret
Are these supposed to be spelt like this ? :)

I'm not sure what you mean there!

____

Update on C3C: It seems to me that C3C v1.15 is a little bit unstable. It has cracked on me twice already during the map generating process. After a few hour of restarting the newgame, C3C reported a memory error and rolled over and died.

Anyway, by using this utility, I have found many good decent size map with good starting location for PTW1.27 with domination limit of around 4550.

Originally posted by Moonsinger


I'm not sure what you mean there!


Uhm... I think he means the words minimum and maximum are spelled wrong... :blush: ;)

yes, moonsinger, the miniMum and maxiMum are spelled wrong.
Also, I've seen the QuickStart bug... It's true.

Thanks for the correct spelling!:) I will correct that this weekend (when I work on the next version of it). My first priority is to add an option for us to go with either the "QuickStart" or the "New Game" path. Using the QuickStart option would save us at least 10 second per iteration (if you have no problem with random selection for the AIs in PTW or vanila Civ). Using the New Game option would take about 10 seconds more, but we can pre-select the AI players. Of course, If I have time, I will work with the food/shield/gold issue after that.

I know what my computer's going to be doing next week! Your follow through is almost as awesome as the program itself!

Just a little footnote:

Please keep in mind that there is a little bit of memory leak bug in C3C. Basically, if you restart a new game or quickstart a new game for so many times, C3C will become "nil". Here is a sample screenshot of that:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/c3c1nil15.jpg

Of course, C3C will be self-destructed shorly after that. If you are planning to use this ulitity with C3C, please keep in mind that my program doesn't cause that and please don't blame it on me.;) Anyway, if Firaxis doesn't fix that bug in the next patch. I could easily have my program to automatically quit and relaunch C3C every 30 minutes or so.

That would explain why I have to restart the program after 30-45 minutes.

Originally posted by Svar
That would explain why I have to restart the program after 30-45 minutes.

It's only happened in C3C. With PTW or vanilla CIV3, we could run it forever without any problem.;)

Originally posted by Moonsinger


It's only happened in C3C. With PTW or vanilla CIV3, we could run it forever without any problem.;)

I'm using C3C v 1.15 and have actually seen the nil display before and didn't know what it meant. I just reloaded and it went away. I have never had any trouble when the program first starts but knew that it would quit sometime after 30 minutes. I first noticed this when I started it before I went to bed and expected to see lots of saved worlds in the morning but was suprised to see that the last save was only saved about 30 minutes after I started the program. I never had the patience to watch the program run for 30 minutes to see why it terminated.

Originally posted by Svar
I downloaded this latest version and I'm back not having the games saved. The utility runs normally but there are never any saved games. I don't need the utility for a while because I need to finish the Monarch game I'm on now.

Ok, two things that can cause that result:

1. Make sure that you tell the MapFinder the correct AUTOSAVE directory of the current version of Civ3 game that you are running. When you switching back and fore between C3C, PTW, or whatever, do remember to point the MapFinder to the correct "autosave" folder as well (I'm talking about the AUTOSAVE folder in Civ3 game, not the MapFinder output directory).

2. Your domination limit may be too high for the type of map you are looking for.

Note: Why don't I just auto detect for the correct version of C3C, PTW or vanilla Civ3 that you are running? Yes, I could do it, but it may generate other potential problem down the road. For example, some people would have 3 different versions of C3C installed; therefore, the MapFinder can tell that they are running C3C instead of PTW, but It could not be able to detect the correct auto save folder of that version of C3C...also because some people don't like to install their game into "...\Program Files\...." folder ...I hope you know what I mean.

Originally posted by Moonsinger


Ok, two things that can cause that result:

1. Make sure that you tell the MapFinder the correct AUTOSAVE directory of the current version of Civ3 game that you are running. When you switching back and fore between C3C, PTW, or whatever, do remember to point the MapFinder to the correct "autosave" folder as well (I'm talking about the AUTOSAVE folder in Civ3 game, not the MapFinder output directory).

2. Your domination limit may be too high for the type of map you are looking for.

Thanks, I'm sure that it is the first solution.

i dont get it.how is it legal for domination limit for 4400 points.i played an emperor game with 3724 domination limit and made a score of 38374.if a played that game with 4400 domination limit, and i dont think it is legal...

A_Turkish_Guy, I'm not too clear what you're saying, but it sounds like you think this utility changes the domination limit of a .sav file. It doesn't! All it does is make Civ generate multiple .sav files and stores the .savs that have a high domination limit.

Ok, I'm really tired of waiting for Firaxis to fix that memory leak in C3C, so I"m going to do something about that soon. I'm planning for another update this weekend. I also have plan to add more new feature to it as well. Here is the list of what I will be working on (if you have a special request, now will be the time to say it):

1. Problem: C3C will crack after about 50 iterations. Solution: I will have MapFinder to launch C3C again and pick up where it left off. This way, we don't have to manually restart C3C every 30 mins or so.

2. Correct some spellings!

3. Use Info from Civ3 INI settings to determine appropriate starting point which mean you don't have to go through "Start New Game" everytime you need to run the MapFinder.

4. Interface with Dianthus's new DLL. He has improved the speeding of reading the SAV game file by a factor of zillion. Basically, it's really lightning fast with the new DLL.

That's it. If I have extra time, I will look into the "Food/Shield bonus" at the starting location. Anyway, at the moment, I'm still not convince that this feature will do us any good; unless you guys can convince me otherwise, I will move it to the bottom of the wish list again. Since I already have the screen shot of the starting location for each acceptable SAV, I can just quickly cycle through and pick out the one that I like for now. ;)

It seems to me that all the really good starts have multiple cows in the opening screen. Could you count and record in the save file name the number of cows visible?

Originally posted by Moonsinger

That's it. If I have extra time, I will look into the "Food/Shield bonus" at the starting location. Anyway, at the moment, I'm still not convince that this feature will do us any good; unless you guys can convince me otherwise, I will move it to the bottom of the wish list again.

I would vote against this, unless it was food/shield bonus's within say a five tile radius.

You could have a start where the first 9 squares around the settler dont contain anything special, but move your worker 1 square and suddenly discover a huge herd of cows.

Originally posted by fret
I would vote against this, unless it was food/shield bonus's within say a five tile radius.

You could have a start where the first 9 squares around the settler dont contain anything special, but move your worker 1 square and suddenly discover a huge herd of cows.

If we are going to do it, we will strictly focus on the 8 squares touching the starting location and that's it! Please note that if the starting location is ontop of a hill or if it's right next to the hill or mountain, you could see more than just the surrounding 8 squares, but we are going to ignore all that! The bottom line, it will only be within the 8 tiles/squares touching the starting location and that's it!

Originally posted by Svar
It seems to me that all the really good starts have multiple cows in the opening screen. Could you count and record in the save file name the number of cows visible?

I absolutely agree with you on that.:) For a milker like me (may be you too), cow right next to refresh water is all that matter! Anyway, since I'm doing the interface and Dianthus doing the hardcore part like reading the SAV file and counting the cow and/or shield bonus, he will have the final say to this feature.

Btw, deer is ok too.;)

Originally posted by Moonsinger

Btw, deer is ok too.;)

Deer have the added bonus of 10 shields when you chop the forest to speed up your granary and with the Mayans that only takes 3 turns.

If you do add something that searches for saves with bonus food will there be any way to disable it? It's a great idea, but I won't use such a feature...

Originally posted by Svar


Deer have the added bonus of 10 shields when you chop the forest to speed up your granary and with the Mayans that only takes 3 turns.

I know, but after you've chopped the forest and irrigated the deer, you won't get any shields from this tile anymore, whereas an irrigated cattle will produce a shield until the end of the game.

@Moonsinger: Count Wheat & Floodplains too?

Shield Bonus is good for Conquest Fast Finish on Tiny Maps. (viz. If there are 5 potential shields in the start position, you can build a Jaguar Warrior every 2 turns {Except C3C}, providing you add the worker back to the city.) :)

EMan + others. I've made it possible for Moonsinger to get the total amount of food/shields/gold for despotism/non-despotism for the starting 9 tiles. If she gives you the option of putting a limit on those values that should cover you for ALL of the resource types.

Originally posted by superslug
If you do add something that searches for saves with bonus food will there be any way to disable it? It's a great idea, but I won't use such a feature...

I agree, you could miss out on some fantastic maps with huge dom limits, simply because there wasnt a bonus in the first 9 squares.

@Moonsinger - I realise now why you cant/shouldnt check outside the area touching the settler - it would be effectively cheating, silly me, doh! :)

Originally posted by Dianthus
EMan + others. I've made it possible for Moonsinger to get the total amount of food/shields/gold for despotism/non-despotism for the starting 9 tiles. If she gives you the option of putting a limit on those values that should cover you for ALL of the resource types.

Yes, the rest is up to me now.:) Hopefully by Monday, I will have the final version once and for all which mean it will even have a nice little HTML report and everything else.;)

Originally posted by fret
I agree, you could miss out on some fantastic maps with huge dom limits, simply because there wasnt a bonus in the first 9 squares.

There's a song where the chorus goes :
"I'd much rather have a caravan in the hills than a mansion in the slums"

then suddenly at the end the singer has a brainwave and changes it to :
"I'd much rather have a mansion in the hills, what I mean is, I want it ALL"!

What I'm trying to say is, why does it have to be high domination limit OR nice starting bonuses. Set your sights higher. Wouldn't you rather have both!

Anyone else know the song? :)

I hear you Dianthus, but just imagine missing out on a huge dom map with a start like this... :cry:

Please, please, please make it optional. Pretty please ;)

That picture is definitely worth > 1000 words :).

Oh, and I'm not Moonsinger, I'm just a similar colour.

Originally posted by Dianthus
Anyone else know the song? :)
No, but I just poked around a bit and found "Mansion in the Slums", by Neil Finn. Another excerpt from it for Civ and espectially for this thread :) "what I mean is, would you mind if I had it all / I'll take it when it comes"

When I think of songs for my approach to Civ, HOF, and start positions, I think of Madonna's "More" ("That's what's soothing about excess / Never settle for something less. / Something's better than nothing, yes! / But nothing's better than more, more more"), and Dr. Hook's "Get My Rocks Off" ("Everybody needs a little something, but Lord I need it all") :lol:

And BTW, thank you Moonsinger and Dianthus - this awesome utility just keeps getting better :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Dianthus

Oh, and I'm not Moonsinger, I'm just a similar colour.

Whoops! Sorry! At a glance you two look so similar you could be twins y'know :)

@fret, no problem. I must admit I was disappointed when Moonsingers new Avatar looked so similar to mine. I just have to remember that mine actually has something to do with Dianthus, and a rose doesn't have much to do with singing and mooning :)

@SirPleb. Yep, that's the song. I just wrote the lyrics from memory. (For those that don't know, Neil Finn was part of Crowded House). Maybe you should start a new thread, "10000 songs to listen to while playing Civ" :).

Edit: Oh, and my part in this project was less than 1 hours work. I'd already done all the hard work for my CIVReplay stuff!

Originally posted by Dianthus
I just have to remember that mine actually has something to do with Dianthus, and a rose doesn't have much to do with singing and mooning :)

“Poet,” said the rose bush’s
Singing pink and green,
“What avails your mooning,
Can you fashion pink?”
“Dreamer,” crooned the wheatland’s
Rippling vocal sheen,
“See my mooning children
Marching as with drums!”

“By a god begotten,”
Hymned the sunning vine,
“In my lyric children
Pinky music flows!”
“Singer,” breathed the rose bush,
“Are they not divine?”
“Have you any daughters
Mighty as pink rose?”:)

Originally posted by fret
I hear you Dianthus, but just imagine missing out on a huge dom map with a start like this... :cry:

Please, please, please make it optional. Pretty please ;)

Sorry, no can't do because it is impossible for anyone to foresee a map like that at 4000BC.

Moonsinger, I think all fret wants is the option to only check for domination limit, then he can see if the start is as above by moving units about within the game.

Originally posted by Dianthus
Moonsinger, I think all fret wants is the option to only check for domination limit, then he can see if the start is as above by moving units about within the game.

Of course, there would be an on/off option for every extra feature.:)

Originally posted by Dianthus
Moonsinger, I think all fret wants is the option to only check for domination limit, then he can see if the start is as above by moving units about within the game.

Spot on. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Moonsinger


Of course, there would be an on/off option for every extra feature.:)

:thanx: :thanx: :thanx: :thanx:

Your the best :)

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Of course, there would be an on/off option for every extra feature.:)
[dance] :beer: :smoke: [party] :worship: :thumbsup: :thanx: :band:
This is going to save me a lot of time generating maps for my Monarch run, which I anticipate I'll still be doing next week...

i try to find a good map with dominaion limit 4200 or more but i just find a 4012 .nothing more.i tried it for 5 days nearly 55 hours.

The highest I have found is 4102 with a Pangea, 4580 with Archepegelo.

Looking forward with anticipation to the new version, Moonsinger.
Appreciate all the work you and Dianthus have put in. :goodjob:

I have a new way of getting to sleep at night now, instead of counting sheep, I watch 'Mapfinder':lol:

Ok, Here is Version 2 Beta:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder2F.zip
//Editing the link: MapFinder2F.zip is the latest version.



Sample configure screen:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder1.jpg

Note: the option for food/shield/gold work as follows:

1. "0" means OFF (don't use it); 1 or greater value will enable it.
2. Unless you absolutely sure what you are looking for, please do not turn it ON. I reccomend that you run a sample with this feature "OFF", go over the result to learn more about it before turning it "ON".

Anyway, at the end, the result will be presented in HTML format. Here is a sample of it:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder2.jpg

Btw, any time you wish to end MapFinder, just simply hit the Window key or switch Civ3/PTW/C3C application to the background and it will stop. Basically, MapFinder will quit whenver it detects that Civ3/PTW/C3C is no longer the foreground application. "Alt-Tab" to switch to notepad or whatever other application will also stop the execution (isn't that cool or what?;)). Have fun!

I forgot to mention that it will restart C3C whenever it detects that C3C is about to die. :)

Wow, Looks great. Thanks Moonsinger. :goodjob:
Time to go check it out.

Excellent Job, Moonsinger! :goodjob: :goodjob:

FIRAXIS will be offering you a job next......for Civ 4!! :lol:

Moonsinger, I am having a few problems. When I start it I get the message 'This application has failed to start bec. vcl40.bpl was not found', and 'Unable to locate Savutils.dll'.
However the program still starts but it does not save games and it does not restart Conquests.

BTW, I had no problems running the previous version.

Sorry about that! It was looking for some runtime library that it doesn't need. This version should work fine now:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder2F.zip
//Editing the link: MapFinder2F.zip is the latest version.


It is restarting Conquests just fine for me! What OS are you using? I know it restarting Conquests on WinXP, but I haven't tested it on other system yet.

Its working now thanks but still not restarting Conquests. I have XP as well. When conquests crashes the HTML report comes up but conquests does not restart.
Thanks also for getting rid of conquests intro movie - no more spacebar to skip it:)

I just noticed that I forgot to display the domination limit on the report. This version will correct that:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder2F.zip

@Muldoon: I will have to do more research on that. For some reason, C3C can't be launched by another application. If any of you know how to do that, please teach me how. Yes, I can launch pretty much all other Window programs within my program, but C3C just refuse to run for some reason. Therefore, I ended up using the "Window" key to launch it (the only way I can get it to work). If your keyboard doesn't have the "Window" key, it may not work.

//Editing the link: MapFinder2F.zip is the latest version.

I have the window key on my keyboard, it launches the start menu.
I have no clue about programming and no idea how you designed this program but can you use an assignable keyboard shortcut with the conquests exe shortcut. Not sure if I,m making sense but if you right - click on the Conquests shortcut and select properties,next to 'shortcut key' you can assign ctrl + alt + another key (C for example) to start the game.
Can this be used somehow in your program?

Muldoon,

Ok, I think I know how to solve this problem now. Basically, when C3C cracked, sometimes, it cracked very hard and unable to restart again. Therefore, rather than waiting for it to crack, it's better for us to program an automatic restart every 50 iterations or so. In order to do that, I have added "restart option" as show in this picture:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder3.jpg

If you have time, please download this latest version and it it another shot:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder2F.zip

To test it, you can set the restart option to 2 (2 is the minimum) to see how it works. Once everything working ok, you should set it to 50 or something like that. Also, do try to relax your loading time a little bit. If it takes C3C 5 seconds to load a save game, you should set it at 7 seconds instead....that way, you can relax your CPU a little bit and a relaxing CPU is a really good thing.:)

Moonsinger... only too happy to test it for you. Consider me your'e official guinea pig.;)

Yes that works. Tried it with two iterations and it quits and restarts with no problems. Will give it a hard core test and leave it running all night. How many iterations do you think it will run before hitting the memory leak? I will try and count it to check because I assume that if you set too many and it crashes that it will not restart.

Thanks once again Moonsinger, its almost as much fun as playing the game, LOL :lol:

I ran mine for about 6 hours last night looking for a huge Pangea map at Sid. MapFinder settings are as follows:

Delay for loading = 7000
Delay for saving = 4000
Minimum domination limit 3800
Minimum Food = 1; checked for food bonus >= 1
Minimum Shield = 0 (OFF)
Minimum Gold = 0 (OFF)
Minimum # of River = 1
Restart C3C every 50 iterations.

It worked wonderfully! And it was still running when I got up this morning. Btw, my system is a P4@3.4 GHz (as you see, my time delay for loading is way too relaxing, but it's BETTER to let the CPU to spend half of the time relaxing that way...it's a sure kill. If we push the time too close, we may not find any map because Civ3/PTW/3C3 would not have enough time to finish writting to the AUTOSAVE directory! No AUTOSAVE file, no map checking; therefore, no result! ). Anyway, here is the report of my results for last night run - over 4000 maps was checked.

Originally posted by Muldoon
How many iterations do you think it will run before hitting the memory leak?

I set mine at 50 and it worked out great. Just don't set it too close to its crack time because when it cracked (when you start seeing NIL pointers everywhere on C3C screen), it would also take along certain system resources down with it too. Therefore, we are better to restart 3C3 at least 15 mins before that happen or it would be too late to recover and it won't start up again.

Thanks once again Moonsinger, its almost as much fun as playing the game, LOL :lol:

You are welcome!:) I think I'm ready to play now - enough programming for one night.:)

While I'm at work MapFinder 1.0 is happily running at home. For some reason the first version of this utility with all its warts works on my machine but the upgrades don't. Now that version 2.0 is out the first iteration (I think) also worked but all the upgrades don't. Now all I have to do is download the various versions of 2.0 and figure out which one it is that works for me then try to figure out why the latest version doesn't.

Moonsinger, I'm not asking for a response until I figure this out , I'm just informing you that I'm still in test. MapFinder works wonders while I'm not at my computer and that is what I really need.

Svar,

MapFinder2F.zip is the lastest one:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder2F.zip

I have gone back and re-edited all the links from my previous posts; so everything are now pointting to the same one.

Moonsinger,
No problem, I have downloaded MapFinder 2 beta, MapFinder 2 delta, MapFinder E, MapFinder F, and MapFinderF1. Did I miss any?

Now back to generating maps with MapFinder 1.0 while I go back to work. I got 8 maps I want to try from this mornings session.

Originally posted by Svar
No problem, I have downloaded MapFinder 2 beta, MapFinder 2 delta, MapFinder E, MapFinder F, and MapFinderF1. Did I miss any?

MapFinder2F.zip is the last version. You need only this one; the rest were early venture. I think I will make MapFinder2F.zip to be the official version to use from now on.


FYI: Historically so far, I had posted MapFinder2beta.zip, MapFinder2delta.zip, MapFinder2E.zip, and MapFinder2F.zip.

Moonsinger, I've been trying to run the latest (F) version today with Conquests and I'm not having any luck so far.

I'm getting the message "Unable to locate your last Autosave Game! Moonsinger:("

I've triple checked that I'm pointing to the correct folder ("C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Conquests\Saves\Auto") and in Windows Explorer I see that inside that folder there is a file named "Conquests Autosave 4000 BC.SAV". I've tried a number of things (probably all silly) without any luck.

Do you have any guess as to what might be wrong? What file is MapFinder looking for when it displays that message?

BTW, I'm using Conquests 1.15beta and running Windows 2000.

Originally posted by SirPleb
Moonsinger, I've been trying to run the latest (F) version today with Conquests and I'm not having any luck so far.

I'm getting the message "Unable to locate your last Autosave Game! Moonsinger:("

I've triple checked that I'm pointing to the correct folder ("C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Conquests\Saves\Auto") and in Windows Explorer I see that inside that folder there is a file named "Conquests Autosave 4000 BC.SAV". I've tried a number of things (probably all silly) without any luck.

If you increase the Loading time a little bit, I think it will work. What is your current setting for Loading and Saving time delay at the moment? Basically, every time we start a new map, Civ3/PTW/C3C will automatically clean up (wipe everything out) in its autosave folder first, then write a new one at the beginning of the 4000BC turn. This error occur when the autosave file wasn't there at the moment the MapFinder look for it. By adding more time delay for "loading" , we would give Civ3/PTW/C3C enough time to create the autosave file before our program starts looking for it.

I have loading time at 12 seconds and save at 2 seconds. (PIII-1Ghz machine. I may need to increase those settings, that's just what I'm trying for starters :) )

But I don't think those times relate to the problem - the error message comes up almost instantly after I try to get MapFinder going, and the autosave folder does contain a save file at that moment.

Maybe I'm trying to get rolling the wrong way? I tried a few ways but none seemed to make a difference. My current approach is to start Conquests, then start MapFinder, then start a new game in Conquests, hit enter to get past the first message for the new game so that the map is acive, i.e. my settler is selected and ready to move, and the autosave has been written, then I click the "M" for MapFinder and click its Ok button. After that MapFinder reminds me how important it is to specify the autosave directory correctly, I ok that and then the error message pops up almost immediately...

Originally posted by SirPleb
Maybe I'm trying to get rolling the wrong way? I tried a few ways but none seemed to make a difference. My current approach is to start Conquests, then start MapFinder, then start a new game in Conquests, hit enter to get past the first message for the new game so that the map is acive, i.e. my settler is selected and ready to move, and the autosave has been written, then I click the "M" for MapFinder and click its Ok button. After that MapFinder reminds me how important it is to specify the autosave directory correctly, I ok that and then the error message pops up almost immediately...

It seems clear to me now that you have done everything absolutely right! When I got home tonight, I will review my code to see what could possibly go wrong at the beginning.:)

New Version: (March 2nd, 2004)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder2v5..zip

1. Add option to NOT use the QuickStart option for Civ3 or PTW (so that we can pre-select the AI civs). More Info about this feature can be found at this link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1546200#post1546200

2. In some system like WinNT and Win2K, unresolve file lock may happen (Bill Gate's problem, not mine). In this case, the AUTOSAVE file may not be available to us (unless Civ3 app become a background application, our application can't see newly created file by Civ3 because there is a cache delay in the OS (see SirPleb post above, once he switched out of Civ3 to Window Explorer, he will see the file there, but our program can't see it while Civ3 was still an active foreground app:(). In this situation, MapFinder will tell Civ3 to just simply SAVE the game for us. Just cause us a few extra seconds per each iteration (no big deal!).

@SirPleb: I believe that this version should work fine on your system. Please let me know how it goes. Thanks!:)

____

Future Version: MapFinder will automatically determine the speed of your system and will automatically adjust its timing accordingly to eliminate some wait time.

Thank you Moonsinger! It works wonderfully for me now :)

BTW the link in your last post doesn't work because somehow the filename gained an extra period in the uploads folder.
Anyone who wants the latest version can click here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder2v5..zip) to download it.

I'll be running Mapfinder every night for a while now :)

Thank you SirPleb!:) How did you figure out that extra "period"?

I went to the uploads6 folder (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/), changed the list to sort by date, looked for something with approximately the right name near the end of the list, and there it was! :)

Originally posted by SirPleb
I went to the uploads6 folder (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/), changed the list to sort by date, looked for something with approximately the right name near the end of the list, and there it was! :)

That seemed like a lot of work since that folder must has been huge! Thanks again!:) I didn't know that we can browse the upload folder. I learn something new everyday.:)

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Thanks again!:) I didn't know that we can browse the upload folder. I learn something new everyday.:)

How do you think I got all your previous versions?

FYI -
If its any help at all, here's how I went about solving a similar problem (its in a bit of a basic form - I don't really know how Bill Gates handles memory management etc!), and you're probably both better programmers than me anyway! :D

In Trade Assist, I read the autosave files as well.

At start-up, the user selects which Civ version they are using, and I then read the registry setting:

(please excuse the Vb code....)

Dim strInstallPath As String
strInstallPath = GetRegSetting("Infogrames Interactive", "Civilization III", "Install_Path", "Unknown")

If Me.optCiv = True Then
strInstallPath = AddSlash(strInstallPath) & "Saves\Auto\"
ElseIf Me.optPTW = True Then
strInstallPath = AddSlash(strInstallPath) & "Civ3PTW\Saves\Auto\"
ElseIf Me.optConquests = True Then
strInstallPath = AddSlash(strInstallPath) & "Conquests\Saves\Auto\"
End If

This therefore gets the path to the autosave directory automatically. :)

What I then do is have a timer that checks this directory for a list of .sav files, and get the timestamp of each to find the newest. Apparently there are better ways of doing this that I use (I think you can watch ofr a windows file change notification?), but it seems to do the job some of the time....

To read the file and ensure that Civ wasn't still writing to it, I had two options - check whether the file was in use, or arbitrarily just wait a few seconds. I chose the latter version, because I couldn't find a way of checking file permissions that didn't rely on trying to open the file, then processing the sharing violation return value. :(

If you want the code I used for finding the newest file, then let me know. :)

Thanks for the info ainwood!:) Even though I already knew all that, but it's the thought that count and I really appreciate that.:) Anyway, the reason I ask the user to give me their autosave directory instead of getting it from the Window Registry myself is because some players are way too smart and they setup multiple patch version of PTW or whatever. In this case, the info from their registry may be incorrect. So I took the safest route by asking them to tell me where. I did provide a nice little mini window explorer to browse for the directory (no typing is required because typing can often lead to error); I think that would be good enough for now.

IT WORKS NOW!!!
Awesome, Moonsinger!

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Anyway, the reason I ask the user to give me their autosave directory instead of getting it from the Window Registry myself is because some players are way too smart and they setup multiple patch version of PTW or whatever. In this case, the info from their registry may be incorrect. :lol: - I ran into the same 'problem' - AlanH had two install versions. I added command line support for specifying the install directory, and left the registry option as default for the 90% of users who aren't trying to be so clever! :D

Originally posted by ainwood
:lol: - I ran into the same 'problem' - AlanH had two install versions. I added command line support for specifying the install directory, and left the registry option as default for the 90% of users who aren't trying to be so clever! :D

I have thought about that, but since this is a zero budget operation. If I'm willing to volunteer my freetime on this project, I'm sure the end user won't mind to browse for the autosave directory once in awhile. Since the program does remember their selection, it doesn't sound too bad.;)

Originally posted by Moonsinger


I have thought about that, but since this is a zero budget operation. If I'm willing to volunteer my freetime on this project, I'm sure the end user won't mind to browse for the autosave directory once in awhile. Since the program does remember their selection, it doesn't sound too bad.;)

As one of the users of your great utility, I can say I don't mind browsing the autosave directory at all.... :D :)

Moonsinger,

MapFinder 2.5 works perfectly. Last night it searched over 2000 C3C maps looking for river and food bonuses. I guess I downloaded all the previous versions for nothing all I needed was a little patience.

Originally posted by Svar
I guess I downloaded all the previous versions for nothing all I needed was a little patience.

Not for nothing!;) If it wasn't for you, SirPleb, and Muldoon who told me that it doesn't work, I wouldn't know how to fix it! Thanks for letting me know that it's working fine now.:)

Hi everyone. I just stumbled upon this program and it is extremely awesome. Great work. I have a question though. I play a modded version of C3C, specifically a very similar version to the Apolyton University Mod that is an effort to make the AI play better. I know tool was developed for use in finding good maps for HoF games, but I was hoping to use it for my own games, as I like a good starting location as much as the next guy even though I could care less about my point score in the end. Thing is, when I try to use this utility with my mod, it says I need to start a "New Game" and activate in my first turn. Only problem is that mods are not considered "New Games" since you load them from the Civ-Content menu selection.

What I am wondering is if there is away for me to alter this program so that I could use it with my mod, or if I will have to stick with generating maps by hand?

Originally posted by Rellin
What I am wondering is if there is away for me to alter this program so that I could use it with my mod, or if I will have to stick with generating maps by hand?

Since I have never generated any mod, if you can tell me step by step on how you randomly generate your mod map, I will add that option to the MapFinder utility for you. It's really no big deal and may take me about 10 minutes to do it.

If I'm understanding things correctly (not likely), then the latest version of Mapfinder is supposed to relaunch C3C after a certain number of maps, correct? I ask because mine's not. Could this possibly be due to the fact that I currently have Conquests installed in a custom directory rather than the default?

If you have ever played a Scenario it is the exact same. Just my scenario does not have a map attached to it so it randomly generates one.

Open C3C, Click "Civ-Content" (instead of clicking "New Game"), Click the Scenario/File you wish to load to select it (This being my mod file and the Scenario/File you last loads stays selected when you go click Civ-Content the next time), Click Scenario/File again to load it, Select Map Options, Select Opponents and Difficulty Level.

You moonsinger and deltharius are a god send.Ima C++ programmer of sorts. Mostly hobbiststuff. But so fari haventbeen able to crack into the Civ3 C#C code. If you mind could you PM me so that we can talk? If i can crack the game open im certain i could make some worth mods.

whats the domination limit?

The point in the game at which you win by the domination victory condition which is when you control 66% of the land tiles. The domination limits on this program as it is set up by default are the number of land tiles you require to be available in total at the start of your game. The more land tiles available mean the more land tiles you can control before triggering a domination victory which means that you can earn more points by owning more land for a longer period of time before triggering that victory condition.

I got a question myself, what is the highest amount of land tiles available in following maps as these are really the only ones I ever play:

Huge Pangea 60%
Huge Pangea 70%
Huge Continents 60%
Large Pangea 60%
Large Pangea 70%
Large Continents 60%
Standard Pangea 60%
Standard Pangea 70%
Standard Continents 60%

One more question, after reading a bunch of threads in this HoF section of the forum, and having played Civ3 for a long time now I have stated kinda considering playing a few games of unmodded civ to see how my score ranks (without milking as that would drive me nuts I think) in a few games. Anyway, my question is, what difficulty level do people play their HoF games? I generally play Monarch or Emperor (Not that I can't win on higher levels, it is just that I feel it is unfair and hate that the AI just get insane bonuses to make it better instead of it making better decisions) and am wondering if I should just stick with Monarch if I was going to try for a HoF high scoring game or if people play on Chieftan or something to get super high scores.

Originally posted by Rellin
I got a question myself, what is the highest amount of land tiles available in following maps as these are really the only ones I ever play:
For the highest domination limit, you have to go for a huge map with 60% water. In regards to terrain, your best bet is archipelago. You'll generally speaking get domination limits of 4200+. Huge/60%/continents and huge/60%/pangaea will respectively net you 4000+ and 3700+. These are of course approximations. For best results, use Mapfinder.

Originally posted by Rellin
Anyway, my question is, what difficulty level do people play their HoF games?
Game activity takes place at all levels, but I think the 'busiest' level right now is Monarch, as there are several games active at the moment. I'll be joining that melee as soon as I find a map.

Well, I was asking for the theoretical maximum number of land tiles on those maps through random generation so that I could set my minimum acceptance level with this map generating utility to something just a little below that. The ones I am most curious about would be Huge Continents and Pangea both 60% water.

Originally posted by Rellin
The ones I am most curious about would be Huge Continents and Pangea both 60% water.
I'm not entirely sure. Just offhand, I'd say 3900 tiles would be pushing the threshold of a pangaea. Continents I'm honestly not sure.

IIRC (I'm at work now so I can't look) but the Index.html Mapfinder generates lists the Domination limits of each file doesn't it? Perhaps you should run a batch on each setting using a low domination minimum (1?). That way you could get a feel for where you'd want to target your threshold.

Just a thought!:goodjob:

The biggest Ive had personally with Mapfinder on Panagea is 4098, but it is rare that you get over 4000. Overnight running for about 6 hours I got four 4000+ maps.

Will give it a try. Thanks a lot. I can't wait to see if Moonsinger can make this program work with modified rule sets. I am dieing to find a good map to start a real try at finishing an Emperor game and have spent most of the night restarting manually attempting to find one that I like.

I'm just curious, what would the settings for this program be if I wanted, lets say, a hill with gold next to a river with two cows for my starting position?

Or at least river and two food bonuses consisting of Cow, Game, Wheat, or Wine?

Originally posted by superslug
If I'm understanding things correctly (not likely), then the latest version of Mapfinder is supposed to relaunch C3C after a certain number of maps, correct? I ask because mine's not. Could this possibly be due to the fact that I currently have Conquests installed in a custom directory rather than the default?

Since the location of "Civ3Conquests.exe" file is based on the location of the AUTO save directory, if you give it the correct auto save directory, it should work. For example, let's say my auto save directory is as follows:

c:\games\civ3\Conquests\saves\auto

which means the Civ3Conquests.exe must be in the c:\games\civ3\Conquests directory. Also since C3C runs slower than PTW or vanilla Civ, you should give it extra delay time too. In any case, just set your restart counter to 2 (that's the minimum) to see if it restart after 2 iterations. Btw, there will be a long delay (up to a minute before you see C3C restart....the reason for this is because the system need to take a break and that's perfectly normal); you should not touch your keyboard during this time.;) Anyway, what is your current time delay setting and your system speed? My system is running at 3.4 GHz and my loading delay is set at 9 seconds and saving at 8 seconds. Unless your system is faster than mine, your delay for loading should be at least 9000 ms and your delay for saving should be at least 8000 ms for C3C. As for PTW or vanilla, I set my loading delay at 5 seonds and saving at 4 seconds. Note: 4 seconds is really equal to 4000 ms (mili seconds) in MapFinder setting.

Originally posted by Rellin
If you have ever played a Scenario it is the exact same. Just my scenario does not have a map attached to it so it randomly generates one.

Open C3C, Click "Civ-Content" (instead of clicking "New Game"), Click the Scenario/File you wish to load to select it (This being my mod file and the Scenario/File you last loads stays selected when you go click Civ-Content the next time), Click Scenario/File again to load it, Select Map Options, Select Opponents and Difficulty Level.

Ok, I will check that out tonight. Sorry, but I don't have my C3C CD with me at the moment and I'm currently not at home.

Originally posted by widdowmaker
You moonsinger and deltharius are a god send.Ima C++ programmer of sorts. Mostly hobbiststuff. But so fari haventbeen able to crack into the Civ3 C#C code. If you mind could you PM me so that we can talk? If i can crack the game open im certain i could make some worth mods.

Not really! I haven't done any serious C++ programming during the last decade. Sure, I can read and understand someone else code, but I have no idea on how to compile my own code. Of course, if I really want to, I could always learn it back within a week or so. As I mentioned in the first post of this thread, Dianthus took care of the core C++ part.;)

PS: The "domination limit" is ....once your reach this limit, you win by domination - exactly what Rellin said!

@Moonsinger:
I turned all the time settings up to 15 seconds and downed the iterations to 2 as you suggested. It appears to work at 15 seconds, so I'll likely leave at that for now (my system is only ~1.3ghz).

I should've thought to bump up the timers already, that seems to be the most common advice in this thread! :thanx:

Now I get to watch my computer run Mapfinder for a few weeks. Finding the start position I'm looking for is going to take significant time (huge, 60%, archipelago, start at a four turn factory position and pop a settler out of the first hut, domination limit no lower than 4400...:cringe: )

Originally posted by Rellin
I'm just curious, what would the settings for this program be if I wanted, lets say, a hill with gold next to a river with two cows for my starting position?

Just set the minimum food to at least 1 (note: 0=off; 1 >= on) and bonus to +2. In this case, you will get at least 2 food bonus. Which means it could be 2 floodplains, 2 wheats, 2 cows, or 1 cow and 1 wheat, etc. Of course, the ninimum number of river = 1 (at least one river at the starting location is all you really need).


Or at least river and two food bonuses consisting of Cow, Game, Wheat, or Wine?

View the report at the end, run a slideshow on those JPEG screenshots and let your brain do the rest.;) The MapFinder usually already eliminates at least 90% of the bad map, you just have pick the rest yourself.

Moonsinger and Dianthus, wow, thanks for a really cool utility! I have one problem (that's probably due to my own stupidity somehow, I'm sure ;)), and a related request. Just FYI, I'm running on XP Pro (SP1) with an Athlon 2.0G and 1G RAM.

First, my problem is, while I have no problem finding and saving so far many dozen maps (at huge pangaea 60% water in C3C with min 3800 domination), for some reason Mapfinder never properly generates the html analysis page for me. After finishing (whether on its own, or because I decided to end it with alt-tab), it (usually, but not always) opens IE and proudly displays the results table, which so far has never had any entries in it, even if it found plenty of maps! :(

Second, my request is, could you add a button to the Mapfinder which would simply run the code to generate the html summary for all the maps in the currently selected directory? This would be nice for my problem, so I could just generate the analysis afterwards if it decided not to work for some reason, but could also be used to generate nice starting position summaries for any directory of .sav files (if for instance you start regrouping some newly found .sav files with some old ones and want a nice new html summary for the whole new group).

Anyway, thanks again, and hope my problem/request is an easy one :)!

Originally posted by Coilean
First, my problem is, while I have no problem finding and saving so far many dozen maps (at huge pangaea 60% water in C3C with min 3800 domination), for some reason Mapfinder never properly generates the html analysis page for me. After finishing (whether on its own, or because I decided to end it with alt-tab), it (usually, but not always) opens IE and proudly displays the results table, which so far has never had any entries in it, even if it found plenty of maps! :(

When you said that it found plenty of maps, do you mean there were actually files in your output directory? If not, it didn't find any.

There are two possible problems here:

1. Your timing may be too fast. As I said in my previous post, unless you guys system can run faster than mine P4@3.4 GHz, do not set the loading time any less than 9000 ms and the saving time any less than 8000 ms.

2. Make sure that you point it to the correct AUTO save directory. For starter, run a sample with the domination limit of mininum of 1000 to see if you get anything on the report. Once you know that all the timing are correct, do it for real at 3800 or above.:)


Second, my request is, could you add a button to the Mapfinder which would simply run the code to generate the html summary for all the maps in the currently selected directory? This would be nice for my problem, so I could just generate the analysis afterwards if it decided not to work for some reason, but could also be used to generate nice starting position summaries for any directory of .sav files (if for instance you start regrouping some newly found .sav files with some old ones and want a nice new html summary for the whole new group).

The only catch is that if you don't mind me renaming your file. For example, if your original sav is "Whatever of the Babylonian 4000BC.sav" would be renamed to "0000134-??-?-??-? or something like that. Of course, the screenshot of the starting position may not be available. You know what? This may be a can of worms! Since it's so easily to generate new maps, why would you care about old files anyway? As for all files generated by this MapFinder program, it will automatically included all files in that directory on the new report everytime you attempt to run it again.

Oh, had a random thought for a simple addition. It occurs to me that in C3C an agricultural civ doesn't mind some starting spots as much as other civs (i.e. being in a bunch of desert). To take this into account in a simple way, perhaps you could add an "agricultural" checkbox which would count all desert tiles as having 1 more food than they really do.

Originally posted by Coilean
Oh, had a random thought for a simple addition. It occurs to me that in C3C an agricultural civ doesn't mind some starting spots as much as other civs (i.e. being in a bunch of desert). To take this into account in a simple way, perhaps you could add an "agricultural" checkbox which would count all desert tiles as having 1 more food than they really do.

Why settling for the second best when you can have it all? Would you rather have grassland with cows and river than desert land with cows and river?

Originally posted by Moonsinger
When you said that it found plenty of maps, do you mean there were actually files in your output directory? If not, it didn't find any.
Yep, there are files in my output directory. It seems to find the maps just fine, and even generates an index.html, but there are only blank entries in the html table.


There are two possible problems here:

1. Your timing may be too fast. As I said in my previous post, unless you guys system can run faster than mine P4@3.4 GHz, do not set the loading time any less than 9000 ms and the saving time any less than 8000 ms.

I *was* running it fairly fast at 5000/4000 (using quick start). I relaxed the timings as far as 25000/20000 and it still did same thing: it saves the maps fine in the specified output directory, but makes blank entries in the html summary file. Since there are no .jpegs generated either, maybe the screenshot generation is at fault somehow here? I let the task manager run on top while Mapfinder was going, and Mapfinder was eating every spare CPU cycle the whole time it was finding maps, is this normal? I had the timing set to 25000/20000 while I was watching, so I would assume at some point in those 20 seconds, Mapfinder should stop eating CPU for a while after its saved the map and generated the screenshot and is just waiting for the next map to be loaded?


2. Make sure that you point it to the correct AUTO save directory. For starter, run a sample with the domination limit of mininum of 1000 to see if you get anything on the report. Once you know that all the timing are correct, do it for real at 3800 or above.:)

Since it does find and save maps just fine, this seems to be set properly.

RE: my request for a button to generate the html analysis of the starting positions in the selected directory:

Moonsinger wrote:
The only catch is that if you don't mind me renaming your file. For example, if your original sav is "Whatever of the Babylonian 4000BC.sav" would be renamed to "0000134-??-?-??-? or something like that. Of course, the screenshot of the starting position may not be available. You know what? This may be a can of worms! Since it's so easily to generate new maps, why would you care about old files anyway? As for all files generated by this MapFinder program, it will automatically included all files in that directory on the new report everytime you attempt to run it again.

Ah, I wasn't aware the screenshots were generated at a different time than the html table. I figured the table and screenshots were made at the same time after Mapfinder was done looping through maps. It might not be hard to make it work this way (after the mapfind looping, it could generate a screenshot for all the .savs in the directory, assuming no screenshot was there already, and then make the html table), if this feature is thought to be useful. But if I'm the only one who cares, then no sense in changing anything of course! :D

I was mostly interested in this as a means to possibly combine or recategorize directories of maps that Mapfinder generated during different sessions, but it sounds like I could accomplish what I want anyway by using Mapfinder to find just 1 map in a directory with the other maps I wanted "combined" into a single html analysis. If I could get the html feature to work for me in the first place that is! ;)

Originally posted by Coilean
Yep, there are files in my output directory. It seems to find the maps just fine, and even generates an index.html, but there are only blank entries in the html table.

Do files in the output directory in the following format?

NNNNNN-NN+N-NN+N-NN+N-N-NNNN.sav

For example:

0007268-14+1-04+2-05+0-5-4420.sav

Translation ->

Iteration #7268
Food = 14 +1 bonus
Shield = 04 + 2 bonus
Gold = 05 + 0 bonus
# of river = 5
Domination limit = 4420

Basically, I store the map info on the filename.;)

Originally posted by Coilean
I let the task manager run on top while Mapfinder was going, and Mapfinder was eating every spare CPU cycle the whole time it was finding maps, is this normal? I had the timing set to 25000/20000 while I was watching, so I would assume at some point in those 20 seconds, Mapfinder should stop eating CPU for a while after its saved the map and generated the screenshot and is just waiting for the next map to be loaded?

Please do me a favor! Run the task manager on top while Civ3/PTW/C3C running (while MapFinder is not running) to see if your CPU is eating up or not?;) Are sure you it wasn't Civ3/PTW/C3C that's always hungry for CPU time?

Originally posted by Coilean
I was mostly interested in this as a means to possibly combine or recategorize directories of maps that Mapfinder generated during different sessions, but it sounds like I could accomplish what I want anyway by using Mapfinder to find just 1 map in a directory with the other maps I wanted "combined" into a single html analysis. If I could get the html feature to work for me in the first place that is! ;)

Yes, I will add a pop up menu for that, so can regenerate the report anytime you want (very useful after you delete some of the maps that you don't like).:)

Please do me a favor! Run the task manager on top while Civ3/PTW/C3C running (while MapFinder is not running) to see if your CPU is eating up or not? Are sure you it wasn't Civ3/PTW/C3C that's always hungry for CPU time?

It's definitely Mapfinder :(. Just to make sure I'm not a total idiot, the 2v5 version is the correct one, right?

I was reporting the process usage from the process list, not just the graph. C3C idles at 13-5% and runs at 30-85% if its actually doing something, while Mapfinder always takes up the remaining CPU, even if it's just sitting there for 10 seconds after the save is finished.

Since as far as I know, this seems to be working fine for everyone else, it must be some kind of issue/conflict with the way my system is set up.

Question, are the screenshots done during the map save, or after Mapfinder is done looking at maps? As I said before, I am not seeing any jpegs, just a bunch of save files named like "0003608-17+1-01.SAV". These save files have worked fine every time I tried to load one in C3C (probably a dozen or so of them).

Originally posted by Coilean
Question, are the screenshots done during the map save, or after Mapfinder is done looking at maps? As I said before, I am not seeing any jpegs, just a bunch of save files named like "0003608-17+1-01.SAV". These save files have worked fine every time I tried to load one in C3C (probably a dozen or so of them).

That's it! You just located the problem. The logic for my reporting subroutine is as follows:

For every SAV file in the output directory, there must also be a valid JPG file to go along with it. Otherwise, no report!

What is your OS anyway? May be the screen capture subroutine got hang up somewhere and eating up your CPU time or something. That would explain why you have no screenshot files.

RE: agri civs and desert tiles, there is one significant thing I can think of: oasis is a bonus food tile (3 food when irrigated) under despotism if you are agricultural, but not otherwise.

Also, I am not advocating counting deserts as having 1 more food for agri civs so that I can have a bunch of desert maps to play, I still want cows ;)! I just wouldn't want desert to be considered any worse than a plains when I am using the minimum food filter. Granted desert is not quite the same as plains even if you are agri, since you can mine a plains and still get 1 food, but deserts are still not nearly as bad for agri civs in general.

For example, say you are using the minimum food filter (I like 9). For an agri civ, I wouldn't consider a start of 4 desert tiles, an oasis, 2 plains with cow, and 2 hills to be much different than if those deserts were plains. However, if I had set the minimum food filter to 9, I would lose the desert start but not the plains one.

Anyway, like I was saying before, it was just a random thought I had while playing with this thing generating maps for the newly agricultural Aztecs in C3C. It might only wind up saving something like 1-2 maps more of every 100 (if that) anyway, so it's probably not a terribly big deal. :)

Originally posted by Coilean
I was reporting the process usage from the process list, not just the graph. C3C idles at 13-5% and runs at 30-85% if its actually doing something, while Mapfinder always takes up the remaining CPU, even if it's just sitting there for 10 seconds after the save is finished.

I can now confirm that you are absolutley right about that. I just do a simulation on the TimeWait API and while it's waiting, it's actually killing off CPU time which mean it's true that while MapFinder is running, it's using about 3% of CPU time (on my system), but while it's waiting, it will use most of the CPU time. Of course, I did not implement the TimeWait API; therefore, I will try to search for a better function.

What is your OS anyway? May be the screen capture subroutine got hang up somewhere and eating up your CPU time or something. That would explain why you have no screenshot files.
Windows XP Pro, SP1 installed. I have purposely avoided installing .NET until now, I sure hope that's not the root of my problem :P.

Good news! I have found a better Wait function here:

http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/pas-wait.htm#Wait

Will definitely release the stress of your CPU within a day or so.[dance]


Btw, I'm using WinXP Pro too. I don't know why the screenshot doesn't work on your system, but I will review my code tonight.

Here is the latest version 2.6:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder2_6.zip

Bug Fix:
1. It's now using virually no CPU time at all! Thanks Coilean for pointing out this serious bug!:) Anyone using the previous version, please upgrade to this version. Thanks!:)
2. Screenshot for newly generated map will always work now. Just lessen the restriction a little bit on this.;)


New Feature:
1. Add JPEG Compression Quality selection in the config screen
2. Add screenshot (sorry - no rubberband yet!) menu option
3. Add report regenerate option
4. Add quick domination check

If you right hand click on the Map Finder icon, there will be a popup menu with all these extra feature.

Downloaded and set to run while I go to bed. You sure brought some needed joy to the end of my "day". It's not that the old version wasn't generating maps for me, but a newer version of a great thing is always something to smile about.

Originally posted by Rellin
If you have ever played a Scenario it is the exact same. Just my scenario does not have a map attached to it so it randomly generates one.

Open C3C, Click "Civ-Content" (instead of clicking "New Game"), Click the Scenario/File you wish to load to select it (This being my mod file and the Scenario/File you last loads stays selected when you go click Civ-Content the next time), Click Scenario/File again to load it, Select Map Options, Select Opponents and Difficulty Level.

Please send me your Scenario/File and I will make it to work for you. It's easy add this option for you, but I have no way of testing it unless I have your Scenario/File.

Originally posted by superslug
Downloaded and set to run while I go to bed. You sure brought some needed joy to the end of my "day". It's not that the old version wasn't generating maps for me, but a newer version of a great thing is always something to smile about.

I hope it will work perfectly on your system this time. Btw, did you get it to automatically restart C3C on your computer. C3C is really one tough cookie to restart without human intervention.

I sent you an email with my "Improved AI Mod" biq file attached. I am not sure if it worked though, if it didn't please let me know. To test it, you will have to download and put into your Conquests/Scenario folder.


One thing though, I am not sure how the program works, but I am thinking it basically is acting like it is pressing return or clicking the correct options automatically to load games and not looking for specific file names. If I am correct, then you could test it by just following the step-by-step instructions I posted earlier and just have it select any of the Civ-Content files that are included on the game as it comes such as Mesopotamia or Rise of Rome. The mod file itself is saved in the Conquests/Scenario folder, and anything saved in that folder is displayed in the Civ-Content selection menu.

Originally posted by Moonsinger
I hope it will work perfectly on your system this time. Btw, did you get it to automatically restart C3C on your computer. C3C is really one tough cookie to restart without human intervention.
I downloaded the new version and let in run for eight hours while I slept. It was still going when I got up! Just to be safe I set the times both up to twenty seconds and the C3C restart low (10? 20?).

Anyway, after a shift of hard labor, my computer did generate five files above my domination limit. Three I rejected off the screenshots (friggin flood plains). I'll have to reboot C3C to find what I don't like about the other two.:lol:

Originally posted by Rellin
I sent you an email with my "Improved AI Mod" biq file attached. I am not sure if it worked though, if it didn't please let me know. To test it, you will have to download and put into your Conquests/Scenario folder.

I got your email, but no attachment! You forgot to attach the file!;)

One thing though, I am not sure how the program works, but I am thinking it basically is acting like it is pressing return or clicking the correct options automatically to load games and not looking for specific file names. If I am correct, then you could test it by just following the step-by-step instructions I posted earlier and just have it select any of the Civ-Content files that are included on the game as it comes such as Mesopotamia or Rise of Rome. The mod file itself is saved in the Conquests/Scenario folder, and anything saved in that folder is displayed in the Civ-Content selection menu.

Since there isn't anything random about Mesopotamia or Rise of Rome, you would get the same exact starting location every time! Unless your "Improved AI Mod" would randomly generate a new map with different starting location each time, there is really no point in doing this.;)

Originally posted by superslug
I downloaded the new version and let in run for eight hours while I slept. It was still going when I got up! Just to be safe I set the times both up to twenty seconds and the C3C restart low (10? 20?).

I'm sure you can safely set the C3C to restart at 50! If you do it manually, you would have to hit the QuickStart button at least 75 times before C3C cracks and burns! Therefore, 50 would be my recommendation.:)

Doh! What is your email? The email system on these boards does not allow attaching of biq files, or should I zip one and email it to you? You could use another scenario that does not have a map in that list, like the ones titled "No Unique Units" or "No Civ Traits".

I just sent another email, but for some reason I don't think the board email system works for attachments, gunna try and find out how to post it here.

Ok here goes my attempt to post my mod file...

Weee! It works!

@Rellin

This one is for you (it's exactly the same as version 2.6 except it has something extra to handle the CivContent route): http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder2_61.zip

Basically, do your usual thing as follows:

1. Launch MapFinder & C3C
2. Select CivContent in C3C and pick your map + whatever!
3. At 4000BC, launch MapFinder 2.61 and uncheck the QuickStart option.
4. That's it!

You own in so many ways. Works like a charm. You probably should put this in the utilities section or the mods section in its own thread. I am sure many people would like to use it. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Moonsinger, I think I may have figured out what the problem is. You are only allocating 64 bytes for the file save pathname, which was truncating my filenames and goofing the screenshot generation, probably because the expected filename did not exist. I discovered this when I was running mapfinder and saving files in a fairly long path, and it kept asking me if I wanted to overwrite a file once it found a map... which was because the filenames were all being truncated to the exact same name after 64 bytes! ;)

Yep, just confirmed it by saving my maps in a short pathname. Generates the screenshots and the html summary just fine when I'm not trying to save the files in a long pathname!

Get an error when saving the file. The program changes c:\map to c:+map which generates an illegal file name. Running C3C on WinXP.

Have tried to change the path but always get \ changed into + generating an error (since the file name consist a : ). Have tried leaving the field blank in hope that it can save it to the default save directory, but then Map Finder wont start.

Havent heard anyone else having this problem, but Ive tried on 2 different machines and ended up with the same error.

Solved it.

It appears that the Map Finder doesnt take what is written in the ini file, ie c:\civ3map, but rather types it out. When running different keyboard layouts than english, such as swedish that I run, the \ key is not where it is on the english keyboard, in my case the + is there instead. So by changing the keyboard to english the program works just fine.

Originally posted by Coilean
Moonsinger, I think I may have figured out what the problem is. You are only allocating 64 bytes for the file save pathname, which was truncating my filenames and goofing the screenshot generation, probably because the expected filename did not exist. I discovered this when I was running mapfinder and saving files in a fairly long path, and it kept asking me if I wanted to overwrite a file once it found a map... which was because the filenames were all being truncated to the exact same name after 64 bytes! ;)

Yep, just confirmed it by saving my maps in a short pathname. Generates the screenshots and the html summary just fine when I'm not trying to save the files in a long pathname!

Thanks!:) I think you are right about that. It will be an easy fix and I will do that tonight!:)

Originally posted by Andy-K
It appears that the Map Finder doesnt take what is written in the ini file, ie c:\civ3map, but rather types it out. When running different keyboard layouts than english, such as swedish that I run, the \ key is not where it is on the english keyboard, in my case the + is there instead. So by changing the keyboard to english the program works just fine.

Yes, typing it out is the only way! MapFinder is like Commander Data (from StarTrek) sitting at the keyboard typing for you. Of course, Commander Data doesn't need to sleep and can type the same sequence of commands really fast and over again. Unfortunately, my Commander Data doesn't know how to type in Swedish yet.:(

:hmm: :mad: :wallbash:
Moonsinger: I just discovered a problem with Mapfinder!

I started playing a file this morning that the index listed at 4524. After getting to my first 'checkpoint' I ran Dianthus' CRPMapstat and got a domination limit of 4479.

I checked the numbers with a calculator against all the tiles available and figured out that Mapfinder's number is 66.6% and Mapstat's is 66%. The reason I checked this is that I ran into a problem with Mapstat earlier and Dianthus and I discovered that the C3C domination is 66% flat, not 66.6%.

I'm assuming your domination checker is 66.6 for III, PTW and C3C?




(By the way, I'm still playing the game, the map is huge and lovely!)

Originally posted by superslug
:hmm: :mad: :wallbash:
Moonsinger: I just discovered a problem with Mapfinder!

I started playing a file this morning that the index listed at 4524. After getting to my first 'checkpoint' I ran Dianthus' CRPMapstat and got a domination limit of 4479.

I checked the numbers with a calculator against all the tiles available and figured out that Mapfinder's number is 66.6% and Mapstat's is 66%. The reason I checked this is that I ran into a problem with Mapstat earlier and Dianthus and I discovered that the C3C domination is 66% flat, not 66.6%.

I'm assuming your domination checker is 66.6 for III, PTW and C3C?


Not a problem! Will recompile it with the 66% formula for C3C soon.;)

Update on the new domination limit for C3C:

Dianthus had just recompiled his subroutine to check for domination limit with the 66% flat for C3C. Basically, I just repackaged MapFinder version 2.61 with the new DLL from Dianthus and here it's for your convience:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MapFinder2_61b.zip

moonsinger, I got a problem -
The mapfinder automatically goes to quick start on PTW.
I've tried everything (including the checkbox..).
Please patch me up..

Edit - It does work! but only if you press ok AFTER "new game", otherwise it will automatically start a quicky..

EditEdit - A more important patch would be to identify.. cattle!
I'm trying to get cattle and may end in a flood plain...

Originally posted by boogaboo
moonsinger, I got a problem -
The mapfinder automatically goes to quick start on PTW.
I've tried everything (including the checkbox..).
Please patch me up..

Edit - It does work! but only if you press ok AFTER "new game", otherwise it will automatically start a quicky..

You forgot to read the operating procedure at the beginning of this thread (second post). Here is the operating manual again (please note the "very important" and must do part in step #2):

Originally posted by Moonsinger
How to use this utlity:
1. Launch the "mapfinder" utility before/after launching Civ3/PTW/C3C
2. Start a "New Game" (very important! You must do this!)
3. Choose Your World! (very important! You must do this!)
4. Go through "Player Setup" and select "Difficulty" level or whatever you like. (again, this is part of the starting up new game process! You must do this before you can play!)
5. That's it! You are now at 4000BC. If you look at the screenshot in my previous post, you will see an icon "M" on the top right hand corner. If you click on it, you will see the setup screen (as show in previous post). Now, make sure you set the minimum domination limit of the type of map that you are looking for. You must also set the "Output/Save Directory" to an empty directory (for savegame) then click "Ok". That's it! Now go to sleep or check back in a couple hour and you may have some good map to play.
6. In order to stop the map finding process, just simply press and hold down the "Window" key on your keyboard few second or simply swap Civ3/PTW/C3C to the background by {Alt-Tab} to another application.


-------

EditEdit - A more important patch would be to identify.. cattle! I'm trying to get cattle and may end in a flood plain...

That would be nice! However, it's really up to Dianthus because he knows the format of the SAV file and inside his SAVUtils.DLL backbox is where he does his magic. Since I don't really know what is going on inside his SAVUtils.DLL blackbox (what is possible or what isn't possible), you may want to ask him.

There is a small bug with river tiles.

When rivers make a right angle, civ3 considers the tile opposite the right angle a river tile. But Map Finder doesn't.

In this screenshot, I count 6 river tiles and 6 bonus food.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/mapfinder_rivers.jpg

Thank you Dave!:) I will talk this over with our friend Dianthus.

what am i doing wrong? :)

first: great idea, great tool!
i may not be a milker, but i want to try a sid game with a very good starting location.

i tried running this on fairly reachable settings (something you'd usually get every 5 tries), but nothing came through except an alert:

"cannot find the file 'c:<games<civilization' (or one of it's components) [....]"

two things seem wrong to me: the smaller-than sign '<' instead of a backslash '\' and the truncated part after civilization (my subfolder is 'civilization iii'.
after clicking away the error message, it starts a "run"-box with following:
c:<games<Civilization III<Conquests<Civ3Conquests.Exe

i presume, the restart game after 50 iterations causes this.

but it still doesn't explain why i don't get a single savegame reported!

what am i doing wrong? :)

Hi Sabrewolf,

In future update, I will see if I can make it to work for other non-English keyboard layout. At the moment, Andy-K's solution is the only work-around that I know of. Andy's solution is as follows:

Originally posted by Andy-K
When running different keyboard layouts than english, such as swedish that I run, the \ key is not where it is on the english keyboard, in my case the + is there instead. So by changing the keyboard to english the program works just fine.

Andy's original post can be found here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1666169#post1666169

oh, thanks... sorry for being too lazy to read through the whole thread (i got about half of them ;)).

so do i get it right, that you actually use a macro for entering the data and not a string as a whole?

anyway, thanks for the fast reply :)

Originally posted by sabrewolf
so do i get it right, that you actually use a macro for entering the data and not a string as a whole?

MapFinder is like a robot that sitting at your keyboard and type for you while you are sleeping. Sadly, in this case, my little robot doesn't realize that the keyboard layout isn't universal.:(

doesn't really matter, that part works fine after switching to US keyboard.

what doesn't function: if you have WindowsFileBox=1 set in conquests.ini... not a big problem, as one can switch, but still it would be nice if this would work too ;)

other nice-to-haves:
- checkbox "coastal start" (for seafaring civs)
- checkbox "start by river/lake" (not all starts with river tiles in the 9 tiles start immediately next to the river)
- "potential despotic 4-turn-settler-pump" (at least 3 surplus food (don't forget that irrigating can give this food too, even without bonus resources, eg. with flood plains) ... and just 2 surplus food for agricultural civs if starting near rivers)

great work :)

Originally posted by sabrewolf
what doesn't function: if you have WindowsFileBox=1 set in conquests.ini... not a big problem, as one can switch, but still it would be nice if this would work too ;)

other nice-to-haves:
- checkbox "coastal start" (for seafaring civs)
- checkbox "start by river/lake" (not all starts with river tiles in the 9 tiles start immediately next to the river)
- "potential despotic 4-turn-settler-pump" (at least 3 surplus food (don't forget that irrigating can give this food too, even without bonus resources, eg. with flood plains) ... and just 2 surplus food for agricultural civs if starting near rivers)

Those features will be on the TO DO list for next version, hopefully after they officially release the next (and final) patch for C3C (coming very soon...so they said). Since Dianthus will be doing most of the above enhancement and he is really busy (me too) with works at the moment, we may not do anything about those this month.

Thursday night I started up Mapfinder for a run. I just got back home and it was still running four days later! Have I got the record? Has anyone had theirs run for more consecutive hours? :lol:

Originally posted by superslug
Thursday night I started up Mapfinder for a run. I just got back home and it was still running four days later! Have I got the record? Has anyone had theirs run for more consecutive hours? :lol:

And now you've got to check how many maps? ;)

Originally posted by Darkness
And now you've got to check how many maps? ;)

Less than 90...it won't take long. Anything with a flood plain or jungle tile gets immediately tossed.

Originally posted by superslug
Less than 90...it won't take long. Anything with a flood plain or jungle tile gets immediately tossed.

Yup! Just just do a slideshow of those JPEGs and immediately hit delete of image that I don't want. Then any SAV file that didn't have a screenshot JPG will be deleted by group. I could easily narrow a hundred SAVes down to 5 or 10 a few minute. ;)

Since using MapFinder I have developed a routine. I search for maps with cows in the starting screen, if only 1 I will settle the city to see if more show up. If more are within the city 21 tile future border I save the start file, if not I delete.

In my last series of HoF 20 K culture fastest finishes at regent on standard worlds, I have submitted the first and am looking for a great second submission. I have searched over 12,000 worlds using MapFinder. I have no idea how many were actually started and abandoned when no decent second city location could be found. My criteria for the 20 K culture city is a railed 20 citizen population city having 55 shields or more. My last submission had 62 but was played badly. Played well and lots of luck a 55 shield city will do fine.

In my present situation I have 8 games that meet the criteria at 1000 BC, 3 of them played to 10 AD. There were other games that were played to 10 AD and abandoned. I ran out of new worlds to start and last night ran MapFinder again. Currently I have 10 new starts, 1 with 1 cow and 1 wheat, 1 with 1 cow and 1 game, 7 with 2 cows and 1 with 3 cows. In 6 of those games I haven't settled the first city yet so the total food bonus could be greater.

I don't know what is more fun playing the game or searching for new worlds. The potential for all the new starts is always greater than reality but you never know when a killer world will emerge. This long winded post is just a great big thank you to the team that developed and upgrades this great utility.

Just want to let you know what's coming...Dianthus is currently working on subroutine to provide us with cows (or whatever resources) at the starting location. This mean...if we just want cow or deer (not wheat) at the starting location (just for those 9 tiles at the starting location), we just simply check the cow box and the deer box and Mapfinder will do the rest.;)

Can MapFinder be currently (or potentially) set to accept only maps with a minimum of 5 shields for the starting city with a population of 2? (viz. Settler builds the city & immdiately adds back the worker.) :)

For example, if you want to generate maps that you could use for an Aztec Conquest victory on a Tiny Map, you would need to generate at least 5 shields per turn from your city of 2. (i.e. 2 forest squares)

Sorry for a dumb question: what is domination limist? (not familiar with HoF terms)

I find this tool to be useful as I want to get a good start for an OCC game (like next to coast/river, have one bonus tile). How does this "domination limist" come into picture?

Or am I misunderstanding what this utility is for?

Thanks.

The domination limit is the number of tiles of territory you must have before you trigger a domination victory. If you're going for a milked HOF entry then a high domination victory is important for a high score as the score is mostly dependent on territory size.

Thanks. I guess higher limit == less water in the map? But with the same game setting, it should be always the same, isn't it?

It would be good to take coast tiles into account too. An ideal OCC start would be:

Next to river
Next to coast (but not too many coastal tiles)
bonus food
lux nearby

:goodjob:

Originally posted by EMan
Can MapFinder be currently (or potentially) set to accept only maps with a minimum of 5 shields for the starting city with a population of 2? (viz. Settler builds the city & immdiately adds back the worker.) :)

For example, if you want to generate maps that you could use for an Aztec Conquest victory on a Tiny Map, you would need to generate at least 5 shields per turn from your city of 2. (i.e. 2 forest squares)

Base on what Dianthus has told me so far about what he was planning to do, I think it's possible to add the following terrain type checklist for the 9 tiles at the starting location:

1. Minimum number of cow
2. Minimum number of deer
3. Minimum number of wheat
4. Minimum number of grassland
5. Minimum number of forest
6. Minimum number of floodplain
7. Minimum number of fish (for seafaring civ)
8. Minimum number of whale (for seafaring civ)

Combinning that with the minimum # of rivers from the previous version, you should be able to locate any type of map that you want.;) In your example, you are looking for 2 forest squares which mean you would set the minimum # of forest to 2. Btw, should I also do the maximum too? May be you just want anything between 2 to 4 forests?

great stuff coming up :)

moonsinger, it seems most of the further enhancements is in the hands of dianthanus currently.
could you explain (and write it in a readme), how the domination limit thingy works, eg.
what are sensible values for which sizes,
how is it calculated and
how can i know during the game how many tiles i'm controlling below that limit, except if checking F10 (a rounded value it seems)?

:) thanks :)

Can't speak for Moonsinger, but I spotted a few points I can comment on:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
what are sensible values for which sizes,
If you're going for milked games, the more tiles the better. The actual ranges vary greatly depending on map size and settings.

Originally posted by sabrewolf
how is it calculated
III/PTW-66.6%
C3C-66.0%

Originally posted by sabrewolf
how can i know during the game how many tiles i'm controlling below that limit, except if checking F10 (a rounded value it seems)?

MapStat, another gift of Dianthus:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52902

thanks for your answeres :)

Originally posted by superslug
If you're going for milked games, the more tiles the better. The actual ranges vary greatly depending on map size and settings.

i've never tried milking (no time)... i actually rarely even finish games as micromanagement get's tedious after a certain size ;)


III/PTW-66.6%
C3C-66.0%

do coastal tiles count too?
and shouldn't the number of tiles be fairly the same anyway for - let's say - 60% continents?


MapStat, another gift of Dianthus:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52902 [/B]
ah, i've heard of this one but didn't ever try it...

thanks again :)

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Btw, should I also do the maximum too? May be you just want anything between 2 to 4 forests? I think a Maximum could be VERY useful.....especially if one has the option to check "undesirable" squares such as Mountain, Desert, Jungle, Swamp etc......it would be nice to set the maximum to ZERO for Mountains, for example! ;)

I would like to ask for small favor from any one who isn't using the US/English version of the Civ3/PTW/C3C to post a SAV for me to check for language compatibility (in a tiny map would be fine; hopfully with some food bonus resources such as cattle or whatever at the starting location). Since the word "cattle", "wheat" or whatever isn't the same in other languages, I'm not sure if this next version (will be released this weekend) would be compatible for the non-English player. As you may have realized by now, we have to do a string comparision to look for specific thing such as "catttle", "wheat", "forests", ..... (I think you get the idea). Thanks for your help.

Ok, here is version 3.0:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/MapFinder3r0.zip

If you are using a non-English version of Civ3/PTW/C3C, you may not be able to detect the bonus resource such as cattle, wheat, etc...

Here is the screenshot of the configuration screen:

Tab#1:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/MapFinder3Cfg1.jpg

Tab#2:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/MapFinder3Cfg2.jpg

Tab#3:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/MapFinder3Cfg3.jpg

Valid Configurable values are as follows:
-1 = OFF
0 to 9 = ON

Enjoy!

Just installed C3C patch 1.20 and just found out they changed the SAV file format again. Therefore, MapFinder currently doesn't support C3C patch 1.20, but not too worry about it. I'm sure Dianthus and many others will crack the code soon.:)

They changed the format to make them not loadable in 1.15 and earlier. This was necessary to make the PBEM SP load fix work. :)

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Therefore, MapFinder currently doesn't support C3C patch 1.20, but not too worry about it. I'm sure Dianthus and many others will crack the code soon.:)
Whenever they do it will be welcome welcome news. I can't even conceive of playing another game under 1.15. The railroad thing is killing me...

EDIT: Moonsinger, didn't you mention somewhere you got around it by giving the AI Steam Power? Do they also have to have Iron and Coal? I mean, is there anything I can do to make sure there's railroads (or even roads) underneath the rubble of razed towns?

Originally posted by superslug
EDIT: Moonsinger, didn't you mention somewhere you got around it by giving the AI Steam Power? Do they also have to have Iron and Coal? I mean, is there anything I can do to make sure there's railroads (or even roads) underneath the rubble of razed towns?

Yes, I'm back to playing version 1.15 too. Oh well, at least Anarres and his PBEM buddies are getting something good out of patch 1.20.:) No, you don't have to give them coal/iron, just as long as they have Steam Power, you are good to build rails to their cities. If not, you have to wait until you discover another tech after Steam Power to be able to connect your rails to their. Basically, the game will refresh the rail network every time you discover/gain a new tech. Good luck!

I just wanted to report that the new version works great and the added flexibility allows me to tighten my limits even more to find great starts even faster. In just a few hours I have searched 2500 worlds saved about 30 and reviewed the 30 saves to reduce the number to 7 worlds that I will play to 1000 BC eventually. I have to finish my current project first but wanted to try the new version.:D

Thanks to Dianthus for his hardword and dedication to this project!:worship: Mapfinder is now supporting C3C patch 1.20 and 1.22. Basically at this point, it works with all version of Civ3/PTW/C3C. I think my job on this project is done!:) Here is the latest and probably the final version of MapFinder:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/MapFinder31.zip

Have a good game and see you on Civ4 or whenever! Byeeeeeeee now!

Also, do you think that we should move this thread to the utility forum? I think we should, what do you think?

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Also, do you think that we should move this thread to the utility forum? I think we should, what do you think?
Yes! I think your utility will be useful to other people too, it isn't just for HOF games!

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Here is the latest and probably the final version of MapFinder:
:eek: What if they ever release another patch?! It is theoretically possible they'll eventually give a crap about bugs and release an update that fixes more than it causes...

Hey, superslug, I don't think Moonsinger meant final as in it won't ever be updated ever ever, just that it's the final version for now! Bear in mind that Moonsinger uses this utility too, so she's got plenty of incentive to update it if a new patch comes out.

@Moonsinger/Dianthus: You've come a long way from simply automating the procedure of getting a good start position! :goodjob:

What started out as a simple keyboard-macro-idea to replace mundane typing & waiting has turned into a GREAT UTILITY PROGRAM! :beer:

:thanx: :thanx: :thanx:

Great changes!

Finally I will have my cattles+settler start!
I'm so pleased about the new releases of MapFinder (and the holiday) that I no longer feel like I need a girlfriend to satisfy my needs.. (not that I had one for years.. or life for that matter).
Wonderful.
No words.
One word - Wonderful!

If I can for just one second be totally rude, I'd say that there is one tiny thing that is still missing -
Luxery checkbox - many people don't care if it is gems wines or whatever.. they (meaning me..) only want one lux..
Perhaps an OR flag of the other lux would be in place.

In any case - I am your humble servant. B my master.

:p

Originally posted by Dianthus
Hey, superslug, I don't think Moonsinger meant final as in it won't ever be updated ever ever, just that it's the final version for now! Bear in mind that Moonsinger uses this utility too, so she's got plenty of incentive to update it if a new patch comes out.
Good point! :goodjob:

Originally posted by boogaboo
Perhaps an OR flag of the other lux would be in place.

That's no problem at all! Will see what I can do about that this weekend. In the meantime, I'm moving this thread to the utitility forum as recommended.:)

@EMan

Thank you for your kind words!:) Although I have been writting many applications sending keystrokes or subclassing itself to other application on and off for over a decade now, I have never really thought about doing that for Civ3 until you asked me about it last year. Therefore, I'm sure that if EMan wasn't existed, this little utility would not be here today (I'm sure someone else will do it eventually, but not by Moonsinger and Dianthus). I guess everyone on this planet have a purpose (but most of the time, we don't know what it is). In this case, Eman's was to motivate Moonsinger to do something about these keystroke things and it happened as you wish. We are all play a part in this big mysterious circle of life.:)

Hey Moonsinger, I see you're still as MODEST as ever! :love:

This program of yours (& Dianthus, of course) HAS revolutionized the strategy for HOF games.....to get a favorable Starting Position AND a High Domination Limit is an HOFer's Dream come true!
FANTASTIC JOB!! :goodjob: :goodjob:

Now, I have to ask you this (perhaps dumb) long-winded question:
I'm assuming that when you say the "Criteria for the 9 tiles at the starting Location", that if there is a Food Bonus OR Shield Bonus on the "4000BC-Settler-Tile".....IT COUNTS IT.....AND Counts ALL Bonuses on that "City Square" tile?

Most of the time, you don't want to waste a turn moving the initial settler to another tile......so the question is:
Would it be possible to turn OFF the Food, Shield & Terrain Count for the "City Square"......since building a city there produces the same number of Food & Shields, no matter what was there before and irrespective of terrain! :)

Originally posted by EMan
Now, I have to ask you this (perhaps dumb) long-winded question:
I'm assuming that when you say the "Criteria for the 9 tiles at the starting Location", that if there is a Food Bonus OR Shield Bonus on the "4000BC-Settler-Tile".....IT COUNTS IT.....AND Counts ALL Bonuses on that "City Square" tile?

Yes, the center square is currently counted. However....


Most of the time, you don't want to waste a turn moving the initial settler to another tile......so the question is:
Would it be possible to turn OFF the Food, Shield & Terrain Count for the "City Square"......since building a city there produces the same number of Food & Shields, no matter what was there before and irrespective of terrain! :)

How about an optional switch to ignore counting bonus resources for the center square (of course, we will always count luxury resource at the center square)?

----

@boogaboo: Sorry!:( I didn't have time to add the following options yet (will try to do them this week):

1. Minimum and Maximum # of Bonus (to check for a combination of bonus for cattle, wheat, fish, ..., etc.)

2. Minimum and Maximum # of Luxuries (to check for a combination of any of the luxury resources)

3. Do not count Food Bonus OR Shield Bonus for the center tile (for EMan;))

.......since you're making a List, Moonsinger, I thought I'd throw in a few more things, in order of importance!..........I know you have a REAL Life, so please don't feel under any obligation....this is my Druthers List: :)

1. Option to require river or lake be adjacent to center tile. (BTW, I just found out today that Agricultural civs ONLY get 3 food on the City Tile IF they are adjacent to fresh water [river/lake]....under despotism.)

2. Minimum and Maximum # of Bonus Shields

3. Add to your Terrain List:
A. Grassland With Shield
B. Fresh Water Lake
C. Volcano

4. Under the Resource List:
A. Add Whales
B. Change Germs to Gems ;)

The End! :lol:

EMan,

I have already thought about those items on your list and most of them isn't doable at this point. Here is my take as follows:


Originally posted by EMan
2. Minimum and Maximum # of Bonus Shields

3. Add to your Terrain List:
A. Grassland With Shield
B. Fresh Water Lake
C. Volcano


Dianthus would be best to talk about those items because he is the one who provide me with the terrain and resource structure of those 9 tiles on the map. For example, as of this moment, the lake tile is treated the same as coast tile. I guess Firaxis must have a subroutine to locate fresh water or something (that is any close body of water that doesn't have access to an ocean tiles must be considered as lake -> fresh water???) Of course, volcano is the only doable item at this point.


4. Under the Resource List:
A. Add Whales
B. Change Germs to Gems ;)


Did I said Germs instead of Gems?:lol: Anyway, you don't really need to look for "whale". Basically, since whale can appear only on the sea tile and can not appear on the coast tile, it would be impossible to find any "whale" within the 9 visible starting tiles; therefore, I had removed "whale" from my list on purpose.:)

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Did I said Germs instead of Gems?:lol: Anyway, you don't really need to look for "whale". Basically, since whale can appear only on the sea tile and can not appear on the coast tile, it would be impossible to find any "whale" within the 9 visible starting tiles; therefore, I had removed "whale" from my list on purpose.:) Yes to the first, and Good Point on the Whales.......Brain Freeze there! :crazyeye:

And, let's wait and see if Dianthus reads and responds to the "not-doable-at-present" items on the Post! :)

Originally posted by EMan
2. Minimum and Maximum # of Bonus Shields

3. Add to your Terrain List:
A. Grassland With Shield
B. Fresh Water Lake
C. Volcano
Not too sure what you're talking about in #2. Do you mean shield bonus from resources? If so then Moonsinger already has that info :).

3A is easy enough for me to do. Are you interested in snow-capped mountains too?

3B I don't think there is any "easy" way to do this. I think the only difference between salt water and fresh water is the number of adjacent tiles. I think the number of tiles is ~20, but I'm not totally sure. If anyone knows for sure then let me know. Hopefully it won't be different for different civ versions!

Originally posted by EMan
And, let's wait and see if Dianthus reads and responds to the "not-doable-at-present" items on the Post!
You're lucky I saw this, I guess I stopped receiving updates when Moonsinger moved this thread to "Utility Programs"!

Originally posted by Dianthus
Not too sure what you're talking about in #2. Do you mean shield bonus from resources? If so then Moonsinger already has that info :).
Yes & No!:)
My definition would be any tile that has more than one shield in the start-game screen, except Center Tile if that option checked.
Examples of tiles with a Bonus Shield count of ONE would be:
1. Forest
2. Cow on Plains
3. Cow on Grassland With Shield

3A is easy enough for me to do. Are you interested in snow-capped mountains too? Only if they're in Colorado! :D

3B I don't think there is any "easy" way to do this. I think the only difference between salt water and fresh water is the number of adjacent tiles. I think the number of tiles is ~20, but I'm not totally sure. If anyone knows for sure then let me know. Hopefully it won't be different for different civ versions!Fresh water would have 2 food versus Coast having 1....Can that be checked?

I guess the most important feature, which Moonsinger said could be done was having a River option for the Center Tile(?) (And ideally be able to treat Lake the same as River.)

Thanks, in advance, for making any improvements! :goodjob:

Originally posted by Dianthus
]Not too sure what you're talking about in #2. Do you mean shield bonus from resources? If so then Moonsinger already has that info :).

I think he means the shield bonus on the grassland (like shielded grassland type).