I dunno if it was here or on Apolyton that someone mentioned the Forbidden Palace being a catch22 because building it far from the capital (where you want it to help with corruption) is almost impossible due to the crippling waste caused by corruption.

Anyway... I've voiced my *complaints* about excessive corruption myself, but it's growing on me... it is becoming an interesting aspect of the game to deal with, especially as I'm progressively becoming better (I think) at dealing with it.

So last night I tried a different strategy, by thinking of the Forbidden Palace in a different way... I decided that the "Forbidden Palace" would be "the OLD Palace"

So what I did was as soon as building it was available, I built it in the CLOSEST city to the capital that had meaningful location (meaning close to but not on the border of my country) and with decent production.

Once I built the Forbidden Palace.... I Moved my capital a couple of cities away.

Then I moved it a little farther.

And again, a final move, which placed it at a far enough distance to beneficially affect cities that were really suffering in the beginning.

I also completely gave up on production considerations for the cities that I knew would have the worst waste/corruption.

This was nice. It added an additional level of reality to the game, as I had an extra impulse to place the city where it made sense geographically rather than production-wise.

I also set the governors for those cities so they would build ZERO units and used the tiny production exclusively for walls (though I think this wasn't necessary as I wasn't threatened) and culture/happyness enhancing buildings.

I did ALL military production in two cities that were well equipped to turn out units in one or two turns thanks to their excellent resources and the presence of barracks.

I didn't have any conflicts as I had set the game for continents with only 2 civs (I did this purely to explore the concept of corruption).

Now, believe it or not I give corruption a big :goodjob:

Alessandro

:) :) :) :)
I really like this idea. Get the "forbidden palace", then build the much cheaper "normal palace" to fight corruption.

:goodjob:

Interseting use of the Forbidden Palace indeed. It's true that it's tough now to get something like that built in a city that can actually USE it. In the past, it would have been a line of caravans waiting to get it done in a single turn!

With your first post regarding corruption, I took it to heart and took a good long look at my game I have now. You're totally correct in that corruption is everywhere and really draining. I'm in a democracy with a HUGE culture score, and I still have cities with 50% corruption. And courthouses do seem to do very little to help.

I can see where corruption can require some interesting strategy, but at higher levels I don't see how the human player can compete.

I would like the concept more if there was a way, strategically, to better deal with the problem rather than the minor efforts with the palace and courthouses. For example, if a courthouse ended corruption, then I would have to make it a huge priority and may have to get it built very early.

I wonder if there are later improvements that will help with this - like a police station or something. Anyone know about that?

Moving the original palace is an excellent idea, and I would have done it in my current (still first but now into the 1800s) game, except that my capitol is rushing for a cultural victory (10,000 so far, half way there!) I can't afford to delete any culture-builders from it. :(

Strategy sounds good for lower level games, maybe king or below it would work. But I simply cannot see the developers intending that strategy for a deity level game. There is no way you'd have the resources to build your palace four or five times while the majority of your cities sit producing and generating nothing. Either there's something missing or game balance is a bit off . . . .

I wouldn't ever move the capitol multiple times (like the AI used to do in Civ II! :rolleyes: ), but it would be very valuable in my current game. I've expanded onto a nearby continent, and have a size 20 city (and other cities around it) with 50% corruption, even with courthouses, Democracy, and WLTKD!! :( Corruption is rediculously high in this game.

And as far as it (corruption) making it hard for us to keep up, what about the poor AI?! I don't know how my rivals ever research anything, with the corruption I've seen in their big cities.

Originally posted by Il Mafioso
Once I built the Forbidden Palace.... I Moved my capital a couple of cities away.

Then I moved it a little farther.

And again, a final move, which placed it at a far enough distance to beneficially affect cities that were really suffering in the beginning.

:confused:
Just to confirm - this is most useful because you CAN'T rush a Forbidden Palace, but you CAN rush a 'normal' palace?

Callahan

You CAN rush a forbidden palace with a leader unit. I dont know if I am lucky, but I have had 3 leaders appear (and thats up to 1300AD). I can assume with the amount of war that I face to expect at least 2 more.

Got war?

ironfang

Don't forget all you gamers.. there is "corruption fixing method" in the Civ Mod section.. that should help!














"..some days are diamond, some days are stones; sometimes the hard times won't leave me alone..." --John Denver :D

Machiavelli said in the prince that the only way for a Prince to deal with conquered cities is to destroy them or to live there.

burn em to the ground or put your palace there in civ3 terms I guess.

I tried to build forbbiden palace with republic and democracyin my territory but was useless. Too many turns later I attacked a distant country and change to communism (I'm of a religius civ) and built forbbiden palace in it without any problem. I used the two leaders from the battle in order to hurry SETI and Cure for Cancer.

Isn't better? :)

Use distant corrupt cities as a food resource supporting scientists/taxmen to max extent possible, so no mines, only irriagation and rails on the irrigation. Scientists, and taxmen do not suffer corruption,so creating high food cities that can support these is worth the effect. A marketplace to boost luxury support and 1 culture building and maybe aqueduct is all that is necessary

Machiavelli said in the prince that the only way for a Prince to deal with conquered cities is to destroy them or to live there.

burn em to the ground or put your palace there in civ3 terms I guess.


Or maybe live close. What i mean by this is to build your forbidden palace close to your opponents cities. Especially close to well producing cities. Than strike!!. Take those cities and keep them u don't have to rase them. Place a couple of your workers in them to stop conversions and start producing culture so they don't complain. Control your other cities with military police, courthouses, and police stations. Now you have your cities under control and on top of that you have taken over your opponents ,and you have them working for u. This works great untill u surpass monarch. Than the real strategy begins. Have fun.

there is an exploit known as palace jump. Build your FP next to your capitol, use your capitol to produce settlers non stop to decrease it's size, abandon the capitol and the palace will automaticaly appear in the largest city. Make sure the city you want to be your new capitol is the largest by joining all those settlers to it, and you've just built yourself a palace for free. The catch is that you have to rebuild all the improvements in the city that you are going to build where your capitol used to be, so sell the improvements first and use the last settler it produced to build a new city there.

Is this really an exploit?

Hmmm... I thought that someone made a great new idea, and found out that the OP was back in 2001 :(

The OP's idea is good in principle, but at 1000 shields per palace re-build once you have enough cities to make it even needed .... blech. Too many resources that could be more efficiently used to do other things.

Renata

For the original poster, in case you are not familiar with the regular method:

Build your FP near your palace.
Choose a city where you want your palace to be. Grow it to be the largest of your cities with a good lead and if possible make sure it has some other cities around it. both these factors are counted when the AI assigns you a new capital. something like 3 pop bigger than the second city should normally do it.

Produce a settler from your original capital.
Now disband your original capital. The big city will become your new capital. Rebuild the original capital city with the settler.

In the beginning of the game, when you are planning to do this in the future, don't build to many city improvements. Only a granary normally.

Hmmm... I thought that someone made a great new idea, and found out that the OP was back in 2001 :(

HA! I never noticed the date on the original message. Someone was digging through the archives :)

if you disband a unit outside a city you get money
but if you disband it in a city you get shields in the city's construction box
how much depends on the unit type (not as much as you needed to produce it though)
anyway, if you disband it in the city that constructs FP (or whatever) you rush it a bit

if you disband a unit outside a city you get money
but if you disband it in a city you get shields in the city's construction box
how much depends on the unit type (not as much as you needed to produce it though)
anyway, if you disband it in the city that constructs FP (or whatever) you rush it a bit

You get 25% of the shields, rounded down.
You cannot rush wonders or the palace in any way, also not by disbanding.
If you disband outside a city, you gain nothing.

And if you are building something else, disband a unit in that city, then you can't change to FP or any wonder.

And if you are building something else, disband a unit in that city, then you can't change to FP or any wonder.
right. if you disband anything in any of your citites, then you wont be able to switch to anything that cant be bought.

The same applies for rushing (cash and pop) and chopping forrests.

I don't think so... Wonders don't get any bonus from disbanded units, just units and improvements.

What I've been wanting ever since Civ1 is the ability to build regional government officers in various parts of your empire. Local seats of government, if you will, the effect being to project government power and basically have each local seat act as another palace.

The Forbidden Palace was a step in the right direction--with this minor little problem that YOU CAN ONLY BUILD ONE. :mad:

You can mod the game to have as many "Forbidden Palaces" as you like though - make each one available with different resources or different techs at different stages in the game if you want. ;)

I don't think so... Wonders don't get any bonus from disbanded units, just units and improvements.Exactly what I said.

@BC: FP does what you want in Civ3/PTW. In C3C it was modified and it doesn't create a second core.

I think Lord Parkin just hit the nail on the head! I might give that a try next game!!!

[party]

:goodjob: No problem. It'll be interesting to see how/if the AI manage to have the sense to build the extra FP's. (I'm fairly sure they will, though.) :)

Is there any way to tell besides spying on all of their cities? Say, open the game in the editor and view the AI players' cities?

Um... AFAIK, no. There's a Great Wonder screen, but no Small Wonder screen. :(

:) :) :) :)
I really like this idea. Get the "forbidden palace", then build the much cheaper "normal palace" to fight corruption.
Eh, question (the "cheaper" line caught my attention so I went to check it out in game)... I'm running C3C 1.22, and in the Civilopedia it states the Palace should only run 100 shields (FP is 200)... but when I go anywhere to build it, it takes quite a bit more... and it's variable by difficulty.

In an Emperor game, I got the following results from different cities:
13 SPT = 91 Turns
20 SPT = 63 Turns

In a Monarch game, it was:
10 SPT = 56 Turns
20 SPT = 28 Turns

So... clearly it's not acting like it only takes 100 Shields. Anybody have any ideas what might be wrong? I'm pretty sure it's not from mucking around with the rules, only things I've changed are the FLICs for the Helicopter and Modern Paratrooper, and the terrain images, and multiplayer works just fine.

I'm sorta thinking about reinstalling and repatching because I want a 100 Shield Palace. :mischief:

The cost of the Palace grows with the size of your civ (IIRC) 100 shields is the starting level (IIRC)

Regards

Really? :confused: It's always been fixed at 800 shields in my games... and I'm running Conquests too... :confused:

The more cities you have, the more the cost of building a palace will increase. Up to a max of 1000 shields. It's not difficulty level dependant.

I can't believe I never knew that! :crazyeye: Guess I was just used to vanilla and presumed it was the same... ;)

It's that way in vanilla too.

Not unpatched... ;)

Unpatched too... it was never bugged.

:confused: But I'm almost certain that the Palace was always 400 shields in unpatched...???!!! Heck, have I really been playing all these years and never noticed this thing??? :crazyeye: :confused:

Heh. You could try a sort of leapfrogging tactic, build the FP, then the P a bit further away, then the FP in the opposite direction, then keep moving them further away so they are at either end of your Empire.

Doesn't work, though... you can't rebuild the Forbidden Palace. (Unless you abandon the city it's in - which is a pretty stupid thing to do IMO.) ;)

I recently was able to improve the shield production in the city I wanted to build the FP in by abandoning about six small, very corrupted cities that had been recent captures but were closer to my capital than my FP city. That raised the shield production in the FP city (with a courthouse) from 2 to 5 or six, cutting the build time from about 75 turns (ouch!) to a reasonable 25. Completing the FP was like creating a second empire.

Yep. And - well in effect, you ARE creating a second empire. ;) Definately one of the most useful small wonders in the game (probably THE most useful).

BTW, does anyone know how the game decides when you get the option to build the FP? Is it when you reach the OCN for the map? :confused:

BTW, does anyone know how the game decides when you get the option to build the FP? Is it when you reach the OCN for the map? :confused:

1/2 the OCN for that size map.

Ah, okay, that makes sense. Thanks! :)

To clear up the discussion about the palace cost, the clear answer can be found in this article (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=107789)

Cool, thanks. :) Are you going to do any tests for earlier versions? (Or is it exactly the same formula?)