This is one of those "gray areas" for me. Got any sneaky tactics that can be used during PEACE, *without* causing an international incident?

Here's one I just read about:

- you CAN pillage a rival's roads to cut them off from a resource so long as the road is not within their borders.

Any others you'd like to share? Remember, this for peace-time tactics.

P.S. I'm curious whether non-military units in a rival's borders cause a lot of concern. For instance, if I send a worker to build a road to a rival's capitol if he'd have the chance to finish it before causing an incident... ??

If your carefull enough, you can hijack those roads by placing cities along them.

But surely the only reason they would build roads outside their territory except to trade with other civs would be to link to colonies. If you build a city on that road you still won't get the resource because their colony will be still be sitting on top of it.

Question though as I've not got the game: Do you assimilate enemy colonies when your borders expand as you do your own?

Originally posted by Faboba
Question though as I've not got the game: Do you assimilate enemy colonies when your borders expand as you do your own?

Yes. I had a colony on an iron resource that got assimilated by a rival who plopped a city down nearby. They "kindly" asked me to remove myself from "their" territory!! *grumbles*

In my latest game I tried being friendly to my neighbors and gave them rights of passage. The dang Zulus (way overfriendly) sent a horde of workers into my turf and put roads everywhere. Either they're being very helpful or they're planning for an invasion. Considering they don't have any resources but wine and I'm supplying them with iron, horses, and the appropriate techs to make use of those resources. Like I said, I'm being friendly.

Anyway, along with the workers they're also sending in special units and regular units aplenty. I haven't so much as SEEN a barbarian in 100 turns due to all the Zulu peacekeepers lurking within my borders. Of course the payback on this is that I get to watch them for 60 seconds every turn move all around. Bleh.

So my question then ... do those forces prevent me from using resources when they move into a city's resource grid? With the right of passage in place, I'd hope not, but I can't find it in the manual.

Having workers in your opponent's territory *does* cause them to get mad. Gandhi had some harsh words to say about my military force "massing" near one of his cities -- I was really confused until I saw the two workers en route through his territory. :rolleyes:

lol Ghandi complaining about workers...

I think that workers and settlers shouldn't count for that rule...

I was playing as the Greeks for awhile and living a rather peaceful life with my neighbors. I had great placement, taking up most of the space on the continent.

So both my neighbors asked for a rite of passage pact. I was like - sure. No problem. We're friends. You can cross my soil.

And they did - en masse. To populate sections of the map which I had no yet explored. Finally, when the egyptians worked their way around me, they called off the rite of passage because they didn't need me anymore. Meanwhile, the babs had teams of settlers moving through my land.

When a settler dislodged one of my dye colonies and effectively claimed it as its own, I put my foot my down.

Needless to say, my northern lands are no longer populated and I am fighting three different fronts.

I think the moral is this game - like life - boils down to politics. My rec, avoid the rite of passage unless it absolutely serves your interests. And prepare for those bastards to expand into your empire at all costs.

Now does anybody know how to void a rite of passage pact without going to war? Or is there a screen which tells you how many turns are left in the treaties?

Now does anybody know how to void a rite of passage pact without going to war? Or is there a screen which tells you how many turns are left in the treaties?
I don't you can break the treaty w/out causing trouble. Best just to wait for it to end and then don't renew.

I don't know about being able to see the number of turns left in a treaty but the first place I'd look is with the Foreign Advisor screen (F4).

re: ghandi complaining about workers and the zulu worker invasion...

I'm currently inbetween two small chinese cities. They keep sending workers (and galleys) between each other.

When I complain, they say "yeah yeah, we'll be leaving shortly."

I've noticed it does not disrupt my resource collection and the manual suggests this may tick them off so I suggest just stop complaining.

It's what I did... (You can't nab the worker, it'll start a war :P They're being oftly trusting considering I did 2 sneak attacks against our mutual neighbor.)

I wish there was a fear factor involved. After you've wiped out two rival nations who annoyed you the others should be a little more cautious. I have learned one thing ... the AI doesn't do anything for the fun of it. I watched a bunch of musketmen get lined up on my border last night and I thought 'that's odd'. After about 10 turns they moved in and took half my empire. All those troop buildups should be taken as a warning.

To see the number of turns left in your treaty, talk to the civ in question and click on "Propose a treaty". Then, on the bottom, click "active". There should be a number in parenthesis. Thats the number of turns left.

When the turn comes up when the treaty expires, just click on the treaty in the active treaties window to get rid of it. I had to do this with the Egyptians in my game. They had about 10 or so workers farting around in my territory.......

I eventually destroyed the Egyptians..... ;)

Trick with weaker civs: invade territory. offer right of passage. wait. wait. amass units. attack!!!

In my first game the Aztecs kept declaring war on me! I reloaded old savegames and every time, on the same turn, they would declare war. I found a rather sneaky solution. I gave them free passage through my country. This may seem like a strange move on my part, but with the free move agreement they didn't declare war. They didn't want to take the reputation hit. I kept granting them free move through my country until I was ready for war. >snicker<

--Avenger

I guess the result of a rights of passage-contract is that AI sees your territory as it´s own, considering movement. Because of this units actually can use your territory.

However, automated workers do the same... thus running in a city of yours and thinking it´s a city of their motherland! Now that´s fun, free automated workers!

Rights of passage-contracts might be a very good choice if you run into a NON-agressive civ. Otherwise i will certainly nót let them use my soil !

Originally posted by miradus
In my latest game I tried being friendly to my neighbors and gave them rights of passage. The dang Zulus (way overfriendly) sent a horde of workers into my turf and put roads everywhere. Either they're being very helpful or they're planning for an invasion.

I like to make rival civs pay for the right of passage.... and pay a lot. :)

Alex of Greece got made at me because I had a nuclear sub in his territory... I thought you weren't supposed to see those....

The Egyptians built a city on the coast, it was eventually taken over by culture. However, an Egyptian worker had been building a railroad from the city to all my cities, I just let him continue. And Cleo was paying me for the right to do that too!

Off subject (sort of), but one thing that irks me about right-of-passage is that it has to be reciprocal. When I beat someone in a war I'd like to make free access to their territory part of the peace settlement but I can't do that without letting them wander about on my land.

Kind of sneaky peace tactic: blockade him. Just cover a straight line with 1 cheap unit apiece. Then he can't move through you. For all I know, it blocks his trade routes, too.

For that matter (haven't tried this yet), but you could probably secure a Right of Passage and blockade his own territory. Man, that would choke.

Sneaky #2: don't amass your forces directly on the border. Amass a road square or two back; further, if you have railroads. That way you don't make him nervous, and it doesn't cost you any movement. Keep a FEW on the border for scouting.

DIABOLICAL: Plop a city down next to a barbarian camp. Sell it to a rich civ. Muahahahahahahhaa.

I agree with Ruffin on right-of-passage... it should be unilateral.

One of my favorite things to do to my right-of-passage "friends" it´s cut off all of their forrest :lol: :lol: (this is great!) and put troops to prevent the abuse of their right-of-passage.

Another thing you can do is block their cities (surrunding them with troops)... HEY! IT´S MY RIGHT! :mad:

Also I build infrastructure to them soo they can trade their unconnected resources with me... and if they don´t, I drown them in blood :skull:. HAHAHAHAHHA

PS: Excelent tactics tetley!!

Hey Tetley,

That planting/selling city next to barbarian camp idea is really cool.

I'm going to try that one ... love it!

Keep the great ideas coming!

Cheers!

- Oogie :crazyeyes

about selling cities,
i really liked the idea of selling a new city that you build close to you capitol just for selling.
every time the sold city will revert back to your culture, so you can sell it again! (for a lot of things)

I used this tactic, a few games ago, to get large amount of territory from my Indian neighbors. Gandhi was at war with the Persians, who were located on the other side of my territory. After numerous incursions across my borders, I finally granted him a right of passage. Soon my lands looked like the circus was in town, with all of the war elephants marching across the one route thtough the mountains. Well after about 20 turns (while I beefed up my military and Gandhi and Xerses fought it out) I blocked the only return route with some strategically placed forts and cannons , and proceeded to pick off half of his empire with very little loss to my forces. :D

Has anyone experimented with what happens if you blockade an "ally's" capital city using Right of Passage? Do they lose all their strategic resources? I can't imagine that actually working, but if it did...oh man....

I guess the next check is whether you can trade your Gracious friend the resource he now lacks.

Units at peace do not blackade even without a right-of-passage...other than the fact that a unit cannot move through your units.

It does not cut off trade, nor does it keep them from working the square for the city...

Jaguara

I think it's fun to sign a right-of-passage with an enemy I want to conquer. It's easier to move your forces where you want them to be when you can use his infrastructure.

Just sorround his capital with forces for road/railroad pillaging (to stop his luxuries and resources) and start conquering his cities.

Probable gonna give you some reputation hit though :p


Oys

I liked this in my last game.

I didn´t have saltpeter, but an English city not far away did. I have high culture so I went in with a settler to the nearest free square (3 from the saltpeter and 4 from the city) and built a city. The saltpeter was still in his radius but right on his border with me. I rush built a temple and a library and my culture grew.......and the saltpeter was MINE (mad cackle) :beer:

This also has the advantage that:

1) I didn´t have to go to war for it
2) I got a new city
3) I might well cature the English city by culture as well!

Now I have infantry and he doesn´t

Morpheus [dance]

When two civs that border you go to war with each other, start building settlers. When a city is taken its cultural boundry shrinks back to the original one square around, no matter what it was before. Build a new city in the now unclaimed-territory and start rush building cultural improvements. A well placed city during a medieval war between 2 other civs can convert 2 or three enemy cities fairly quickly, without going to war yourself.

I made the mistake of putting some workers into automatic mode in my first game. As they started running out of really constructive things to do I noticed they would sit there changing mines into irrigation and irrigation into mines. Talk about busy work! Anyway, in relation to this thread it gave me an idea. If you have right of passage with another civ, you could flood his territory with workers and start replacing his mines with irrigation (on the appropriate terrain, of course). If you have enough workers involved you could put a serious hit on his shield production in just a couple turns. Not to mention what could happen with his population control. The idea just came to me so I haven't tried it in a game, but it sounds like it could be effective in the right circumstances.

I made the mistake of putting some workers into automatic mode in my first game. As they started running out of really constructive things to do I noticed they would sit there changing mines into irrigation and irrigation into mines. Talk about busy work! Anyway, in relation to this thread it gave me an idea. If you have right of passage with another civ, you could flood his territory with workers and start replacing his mines with irrigation (on the appropriate terrain, of course). If you have enough workers involved you could put a serious hit on his shield production in just a couple turns. Not to mention what could happen with his population control. The idea just came to me so I haven't tried it in a game, but it sounds like it could be effective in the right circumstances.

I used this tactic, a few games ago, to get large amount of territory from my Indian neighbors. Gandhi was at war with the Persians, who were located on the other side of my territory. After numerous incursions across my borders, I finally granted him a right of passage. Soon my lands looked like the circus was in town, with all of the war elephants marching across the one route thtough the mountains. Well after about 20 turns (while I beefed up my military and Gandhi and Xerses fought it out) I blocked the only return route with some strategically placed forts and cannons , and proceeded to pick off half of his empire with very little loss to my forces.

HA HA HA HA ... I think this thread has more potential for humour than any other. It just shows how much personality this game can develop the longer you play ... I like renaming my border cities with insulting titles. It's rather amusing to see my gracious ally the French offering to exchange maps, while in the background I can see my cites - "$%^* the French", "Kiss my Ass You French Whore" etc. you get the picture - childish but amusing ...

What I like to do is make peace with all the other nations and wait for the wars to happen. I make sure to stay out of it and not get drawn into one side, keeping peace with everyone. Then, I'll pick which side I think will come out on top, or which one would be better for me if they came out on top. So, I sent out an expeditionary force of a few settlers and troops and build a city or two on their border away from the front of the two civs. Then I give the cities to their enemy civ for pennies. If that civ also borders me, I make a few towns right on the border and give those away too (while having settlers ready to go). As they charge into our "mutual" enemy, taking towns and razing others, I just build between the 1 square radii and on top the rubble. Easy expansion for peacetime, no war weariness, and I can still trade:)

To end the war, because you don't want that civ eliminated (or do you?):confused: , give them a technology or repeat this ad nauseum for them and another, unsuspecting civ.

-Tim W. Ault

The privateer unit is a great way to harass an opponent without declaring war. The unit is weak in the armor department and could never take on frigates or anything heavier, but privateer units can destroy enemy galleys, galleons, and possibly transports when used in masse, its pretty good for keeping an enemy from expanding onto a new land mass. I would still maintain a decent convential navy, but with enough of them, you can really irritate the daylights out of an enemy.

I have a few strats which can be related to this thread. It's at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10018&pagenumber=7

I was in an industrial war with Japan and needed luxuries to boost my population's flagging morale. I had to sign a RoP treaty with the Greeks to let my workers build their road inrastructure (capital was surrounded by mountains & jungle) so I could trade with them.

Someone on the forums posted a really sneaky peace tactic: plant forests on your friends' squares. That'll starve their population. LOL.

In my latest (and best yet) game, I actually found privateers to be useful, in a manner of speaking. This was a Monarch level game as the Babylonians, and it was one of those rare games where EVERYTHING goes your way. A free settler from a hut early on, SIX leaders... you get the idea. I had some coastal cities that could build privateers in 2-3 turns. The other civs were all still using caravels and frigates, with the occasional galley running around. I was literally 2/3 of an AGE ahead. So I punched out some privateers and started marauding. I ended up sinking several caravels, and a bunch of frigates. Losses were rougly 1 to 1, I think, which is a trade I'll take. The amusing bits were the galley that roughed up two privateers, and the privateer that had 1hp left beating an attacking frigate.

Basically, this warded off extreme boredom while I industrialized my empire, while inflicting some harm on the AI. Then I build tanks and went for world domination.

-Arrian

Are the espionage actions any good? I shelled out big money to "Safely" saboutage an enemies attempt to build a warship in a city that I was preparing to invade as my opening shot. I lost my spy, and the ship was still under construction when my tanks rolled through. Does anyone else have any good luck?:scan:

(Note: This is not a blockade in the sense that denies resources.)

Here is one for the amusing if not effective category. You can give Right of Passage diplomatically, but deny it practically. With a few units on choke points, you can use zone of control to prevent the AI from going where it wants. Or worse, selectively open and close the choke point, to play havoc with the path finding algorithms. Since you are at peace they don't even have to be military units, but I usually use military anyway. Or if you don't have a choke point, you can use as few as 4 units to herd the AI into going where you want.

Once I had a small peninsula off my main continent where the AI had put a city. The AI sent a dozen workers across my civ to boost the population. So I set a boxed them in with some ancient units, and held on until a war was declared and simpy captured all the workers.

If your enemy is overseas and doesn`t have Marines: put a Catapult/Cannon or some such on every coastal square but one; when he approaches close the gap and open another one a few squares away- he won`t be able to land but will try continuously :lol::lol::lol: (you could use whatever kind of unit but bombard-capable units will get him to move his ships in, then withdraw them, heal them, move them in again etc and you can pick them off 1 by 1)

He also won`t have many units left for other purposes :flamedevi

btw: unprotected workers/setllers just make the AI mad with lust - use that to draw them into overextension.....

Nah, diabolical is using workers to plant forests all around a ROP partner's cities, and then leaving them there if you have enough...

So why is it that the computer always wants something for ROP even when it's in their best interests? I recently sat completely between Egypt and Persia, who were constantly at war, for thousands of years, on and off. In fact, a majority of the combat occurred on my soil. At it's narrowest point, my territory was at least 15 squares wide, it was taking them ages to cross!

I tried offering each of them ROP just to get them through my territory faster so they could fight more easily (there were so many foreign units moving/fighting in my territory it was interfering with my own actions, clogging my roads, making workers wait to improve squares). Neither of them was willing to take ROP unless I paid THEM! I was totally baffled. They were fighting in my territory, and they could have been doing it with movement rates for friendly territory. Huge advantage to them, but they wanted me to pay for it, to the tune of 2-300 gold. *boggle*

hi,

some games i build an invasion force of about 4 stacks of 6 units and place them at my border then sign a RoP. The next turn I move 1 stack next to 4 different enemy cities and take the cities the following turn. Enemy normally signs peace after a couple of turns.

i normally have another stack in reserve to mop up enemy workers or to repell a possible counter strike.

dutcheese

Hmm... well, that's all well and good so long as you don't care that your reputation will be the eqivalent of Civ II's "despicable" if you use a ROP for a sneak attack. It will be very hard to get per turn deals with the remaining AI's after an attack like that.

-Arrian

The last few games I've played I've had AI opponents ripping each other apart but leaving me alone (until the end anyway). I'm trying to get in the habit of keeping an eye on their battles and having a couple of settlers ready and positioned near contested locations so I can swoop in and claim territory before anyone else can get in there when the cities get razed by the warring sides:D

Don´t be sneaky... fight face to face! :mad:

Be the nicest friend of his world until he is no longer necesary (cold wars are no good, it´s better a straight fight)...

Then, if he is useless, kill him... and drown his people in blood :skull:

Use the ROP so that you can put those obsolete galleys to good use: place them in front of coastal cities so that they can't ever transport units overseas. It' a great way to keep them from colonizing a newly discoved, resource-rich continent.

Explorers make really good PILLAGE units.

Explorers are also excellent "first wave" units in an invasion. They can get deeper in the first turn than other units and pillage more effectively than other units.

They are cheap to produce, and if you bring large enough numbers of them, the AI will not attack them all.

quote:
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Originally posted by miradus
In my latest game I tried being friendly to my neighbors and gave them rights of passage. The dang Zulus (way overfriendly) sent a horde of workers into my turf and put roads everywhere. Either they're being very helpful or they're planning for an invasion.
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They might have been trying to create a trade route somewhere.

In my last game I had about 50 cities and 80 workers. One of my cities had their area of influence extend over a small sea (one tile wide) to land on the other side. My workers were getting pretty bored placing mines on squares that won't ever be used so about 60 of them went through German territory (un-roaded) to work that one open square:mad: .

I'm sure glad I kept the peace with Germany, otherwise they could have grabbed 60 free workers.

While at peace there are a couple of ways to rake in huge amounts of money. This works on Pangea style maps mainly. After most of the continent is explored and you have expanded pretty well, then sell a ROP to all civs (demand as much gold/turn as possible). For example: Oh, my advisor tells me that at 5 gold/turn Egypt will accept it, fine, lets try 10/turn, how about 15/turn, etc.
For awhile you'll make all the other civs go bankrupt because they want that ROP to get across your territory and settle somewhere (beat them there if it's a real good spot!). Then every 20th turn (when the deal can be cancelled), cancel it and then offer it again, but for more gold! Inflation!:lol:
By renegotiating the deal, if some civ was running into a deficit because of your deal, they are mad at you. So in this case you'll have to lower the price, to keep them happy. You're raking in all this money, yet they consider it a very good deal!
Another thing to do is build the Great Lighthouse (after all other ancient wonders, and if you have the time). Then send out 4 or 5 galleys to explore the oceans. Don't sell your World Map until just before the AI discovers the techs that would allow them to start exploring the ocean, or if you go to war and you need allies. The AI will go to war for a map of nothing but ocean!

So one day, I had a horseman exploring through a rather large jungle and a barbarian horde came upon me. Being in the jungle, they weren't able to immediately attack and wipe me out.

I thought about turning tail and getting back to my land so as not to lose my horseman, but thought better of that silly plan. I headed straight for the nearest enemy civ. Sure enough, once the barbarians were in range, they headed for the nearest city. The poor civ sent out the defenses which were summarily overrun. About four of the fifteen or so barbarians made it through to sack the city. Too much fun.

Originally posted by KingSponge


Yes. I had a colony on an iron resource that got assimilated by a rival who plopped a city down nearby. They "kindly" asked me to remove myself from "their" territory!! *grumbles*

same thong happened to me i went to war over it and took it back

Here is my story: Setting: I am playing as the Americans. The date is 1914 and I am playing against the Rome and England - who are on the same continent as I; and Germany, Iroguois, and the Persians - who are on a second continent. Up to this point I have successfully negotiated with all civs to have peaceful growth. Then Germany DEMANDs furs with nothing in return. I decline and he declares war with me. That turn I negotiate with Rome and England to embargo and to declare war against Germany. The next turn I do the same with Persia and the Iroquois. I sit happy while the Iroquois and Persia make light work of Germany. Eventually Germany asks for a peace treaty at a cost of 16 money points per turn and a couple of luxury items. This went on until 2002 or something. By this time my cultural score is peaking pretty high and I have continued to maintain acceptional relations with everyone, except now I have let all negotiations go with England. Also by this time I have negotiated a right of passage with everyone except Germany and England as well as a Mutual Protection Pact. After a quick save and finalizing the massing of troops in the cities that border with England - I have a collection of 4x Arty and 2x Infantry on a mountain top that fires one round at an English soldier. England declares war on me immediately and sends troops across the border. {The cool part} Everyone declared war with England and not me! I couldn't believe it. I also negotiated with everyone a trade embargo against England. Now the date is somewhere around 2045 or so and I am still at war with England with the help of everyone else - who sent ships with troops to other islands and destroyed/took over Englands cities. It has been a great game thus far. Basically I have defended against England while everyone elses is kicking the **** out of her and I still have a high reputation across the board. Great game.

Hope that you have enjoyed my ramblings!

Originally posted by Oys
I think it's fun to sign a right-of-passage with an enemy I want to conquer. It's easier to move your forces where you want them to be when you can use his infrastructure.

Just sorround his capital with forces for road/railroad pillaging (to stop his luxuries and resources) and start conquering his cities.

Probable gonna give you some reputation hit though :p


Oys
You could wait until the right is over and get him to declare war on you and it shouldn't hurt your reputation

When two civs are attacking each other far from their capitols I make sure my nearby cities have all the good improvements, temples . universities etc. last night the Aztecs declared war on the Egyptions. Move 20 jag warriers through my territory to attack a lone Egyption city. first warrier attacks before the rest of the stack is in place. My next turn the city jumps sides to me. Of course I immediately demand the Aztec troops leave.

Ahhhh I love the smell of napalm in the morning........

how can you make a civ declare war on you? The usual way is to move troops into its teritory and leave them there. But does this affects the other civs' opinion of you? And how you make a weaker civ declare war on you?

I use right of passage to get all the rival settlers and workers on my land, guarded with some separated defenders, and then choke them all. If I don't want war I go onto rival's territory and change all his irrigations to mines. All his poor citizens starve to death. Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. I also stand on polluted squares so they can't clear it. Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha

Originally posted by Amask
I also stand on polluted squares so they can't clear it. Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha

I used that, too, and found that Global Warming will give me an equal to greater than equal share / territory, even if I have zero pollution, so I backed away from that.....

Another very nice one is breaking someone elses trade. If he trades through one of your cities (make sure there`s no other connection) simply cut the roads...... He`ll be hated!

One of the best ways to win peacefully is to deny ever giving ROP to anyone. During a military alliance you are allowed through the allies territory without a problem, so it doesn't really affect you that much.

The other option is to grant ROP to everyone, but fortify every border square with something cheap like a warrior. A couple of my games I was able to do this. Except I would use the strongest defending units I had.

Of course doing this then allows you to separate civs from each other completely, and pick on the ones who just happen to be inhabiting 'your' territory [which happens a lot in my games :D ].

Some of the best ways to make war are through trade routes. I never build colonies - I'd rather build a city either on, or right next to the resource. The more cities you have the bigger you appear and the easier to bully your enemies. Also, you can slow down their border advancing.

If you want to declare war without getting into trouble, find somewhere where they are going to continually send their troops and build a city there. Then tell them to get their units out of your territory every time they get in. One, they will often get mad, and two after a short time it becomes very easy to declare war on them without it affecting your stance among the other civs. ;)

I use the right-of-passage when another civ demands "tribute to their great society" It helps when you don't have enough miltary power and you can't afford to lose gold.(It also gives you free acces to their terrority.) Also I use it for another reason:



If you are preparing to go to war with someone while your getting your units into stacks close to their terrority offer them a right-of-passage agreement.(This might be hard because most of the time the AI doesn't like you very much, just offer them ALOT of gold or a useless science to get it.) The send your units through their terrority to the other side. Then once the right-of-passage clears up you can attack from to differant fronts!!!!

If anyone has any improvements to my idea just say so.All people must die.... They just die quicker around me.

Originally posted by Strider

If you are preparing to go to war with someone while your getting your units into stacks close to their terrority offer them a right-of-passage agreement.(This might be hard because most of the time the AI doesn't like you very much, just offer them ALOT of gold or a useless science to get it.) The send your units through their terrority to the other side. Then once the right-of-passage clears up you can attack from to differant fronts!!!!

If anyone has any improvements to my idea just say so.

Often you can even use this to disable the enmy offensive toops - just choose a civ that is at war with one on the other side of your territory - while you move your troops into position he`ll throw all he has to the other end of your territory. Now you`ll also have to fight two fronts - but you secured your second one with fortifications beforehand! ;) Now with a few good offensive troopers you can smash all his offensive arm in 1 turn while your main host has no counterattack to fear!

Exactly right Killer!! If you think about it long enough(say a couple of months) you will prob come up with a couple of thousand tactics with the right of passage

A cheap strategy i use is goign to the active button in diplomacy and redo the peace treaty. I do this to smaller civs. They'll offer sometimes 15 gold per turn for a peace treaty.

Very cheap and you never go to war :D

Originally posted by Strider
Exactly right Killer!! If you think about it long enough(say a couple of months) you will prob come up with a couple of thousand tactics with the right of passage

Oh I guess the main one`s are on the board already...

worker grab - give ROP, then wait until there`s lots of settlers on your land and ROP runs out - WHAM lots of free slaves...

Sneak attack - give ROP, pile troops in, wait until ROP runs out - WHAM lots of towns for you

war land grab - get ROP with two waring civs, move settlers in and grab land freed by the fighting

ROP as payment or to make friends - just make sure you blocked the chokepoints!

Originally posted by Cybernut




HA HA HA HA ... I think this thread has more potential for humour than any other. It just shows how much personality this game can develop the longer you play ... I like renaming my border cities with insulting titles. It's rather amusing to see my gracious ally the French offering to exchange maps, while in the background I can see my cites - "$%^* the French", "Kiss my Ass You French Whore" etc. you get the picture - childish but amusing ...


:lol: I like to do that myself, TO ESPECIALLY THE FRENCH!

Childish, who's childish?
:jump:

:soldier: charge......

Here is an interesting tactic I use sometimes:

Make a road network to another civ, then make a per-turn deal
with him (using only luxuries or resources) and then:lol: pillige the roads to your capital, effectively breaking the deal and leaving you with all the techs and gold!:lol: :lol:

Of cource you can do it with harbors too, Just sell it:D

Or if you have an airport just sell it too:goodjob:

After you do it more than once it will be hard to get per-turn deals with that civ.

Obviously this won't work in the real world. :)

_______________________Revised____________________ ___

Don't build harbors or airports in your capital then you can just continue cutting the roads around your capital.

---

I like that idea about planting trees in your enemy's territory. Once I played on Marla's Map as the Germans and basically dominated much of the world... I owned Europe up to the Urals, the African Atlantic coast and the formerly Zulu lands in southern Africa plus all of South America and a few outposts in Indonesia. The Chinese, Egyptians and Babylonians were mad at me but I got them to the point where they would pay tribute to me during peace renegotiation. I had gazillions of cities and they were productive as hell and I raced towards a Spaceship victory when I started planting trees all over the Egyptian lands in Africa and the Babs' lands in the Mideast.
It sure looked funny, dense forests in Arabia... on all those squares that once produced food for his cities... :slay: Babylon had all those flood plain squares but the other cities starved badly

After I have my intel agency built and have a spy in place, how do I initiate a covert espionage mission? [In other words, where is the button or control to do it?]. Thanks,

Oogie
:crazyeye:

NEVER - NEVER - NEVER sign right of passage agreements, unless it is expressly and solely to your benefit, UNLESS...

a) You are willing to have foreign troops wander about your lands.
b) You are willing to station troops or workers to prevent such movement.
c) You NEED the ROP agreement to gain access to YOUR distant cities.
d) Your ally needs such access to attack your mutual enemy.

Keep it simple and prevent abuse...

The best peace time tactics that I use is the olde create a town next to their colony trick. It claims the resouce, and no ill diplomatic consequences, even if they have troops stationed on it.

I also look for small places that I can plunk a town down on their continent that will grab some of their city tiles. Remember, not within their borders. If we're at war, I don't care where I put it. The situation works out like this: If they don't assimulate the town on culture, we each have a small town that doesn't produce squat. If they do assimulate the town on culture, they have 2 small non-producing towns. They have to station troops in the town and generally deal with its upkeep and moods. AND of course the mood is not content, since it is one of my towns. This is far better than them having another major town.

During wartime, I'll sometimes send a settler in and camp a spot next to one of their big cities. If they raze the town, they have to deal with the "International Incident" and I look like the "injured" party. If they don't raze the city, they have to divert food/shield resources from their other city. You gain either way.

I often station destroyers about 4 squares off my nautical limits, separated just enough that their visual ranges overlap. You will need lots of them. This way i am aware of all traffic within about 8 squares of my coast. It effectively doubles my visual range, beyond the standard 1 square beyond nautical limit. It gives you time to react to the invasion fleets, and accompanied settlers incoming to your area. Not so sneaky, but even bitter rivals just wander right by them, and I use a small fleet in the rear to deal with the issue.

If I want to goad a rival into declaring war on me, so that my populace reacts more positively, I send in workers and start creating roads to the places that I am going to attack. This way, once my troops take over their city, I have a nice road to ferry troops over that is already made.

The sneakiest thing that I do is when they have a city near my border. I will send a settler (rush them in a war time) as close as I can to their border and build a city. THen I will rush a temple. In a turn or two the border expands, often flush against their city. If it is peacetime, you can be assured that even your swordsmen will get a stab at their city.

Another thing that sometimes occurs is that if you control land between an AI cities they will try to send workers or other units back and forth. One time after the Romans kept sending ten workers into my territory I just surrounded them with older units so they couldnt move. When the war started, they were immediately off to the jungles to dredge malaria swamps.

In late games when I am working with an ally to defeat an opponent, I use all the extra tanks to fill in every available spot of land that pops up when the enemy borders shrink away. That way I can settle or regain it at my leisure.

Originally posted by God
A cheap strategy i use is goign to the active button in diplomacy and redo the peace treaty. I do this to smaller civs. They'll offer sometimes 15 gold per turn for a peace treaty.

Very cheap and you never go to war :D

I do the same thing to every civ every 20, or so, turns but if the civ is stronger than me I will save it just before I propose the deal. My stratagey, if my advisor tells me peace would be acceptable, is ask for each city starting from the bottom of the lilst (the most I've ever gotten without the aid of a war is 3 in one meeting) and then I work my way through the rest in accordance to my wants* at the time. One problem, I think, is that the trade routes are closed during negotiations, so you can't get luxuries & resorses.

*I never need anything they give me.

If I want a civ to declare war on me, I wait for them to enter my borders and when I can ask them to either leave or declare war, I demand some or all their cities be handed over to me several times, this should make them furious with me and that's when I tell them to either leave or declare war.
So far, they declared war on me 100% of the time.

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
Another thing that sometimes occurs is that if you control land between an AI cities they will try to send workers or other units back and forth. One time after the Romans kept sending ten workers into my territory I just surrounded them with older units so they couldnt move. When the war started, they were immediately off to the jungles to dredge malaria swamps.

The same thing has happend to me a couple of times but there would be more like 50 and when war starts...well, I think you've pretty much described that to a tee :goodjob:

Ok, I was the Russians and I had dominated about 50% of the world (most of Europe and Asia - much like the Soviet Union would have looked like if it had taken over all of Europe) when I started to build roads towards the Egyptians' capital (prior to an invasion;)) they didn't dare to say anything about it untill I reached the very door of their capital and then they never made be choose between war or removing them (they only asked once).

Also as I had a big enough army to take on the entire world at the same time (OK I'm showing off!) I was able to make very rash demands- the Germans' whated to trade world maps so I made a counter proposal that they give me their world map and all of their gold and I wouldn't crush them (I declared war shortly after they accepted but other civs still accepted).

Note- i think that it is a good idea to make subs, nuclear subs and cruise missiles so that they don't reveal their nationality (using the editor).:egypt:

Sneaky tactic: The Escort Service

Ok, lets say that its fairly early in the game and there is some unsettled land that you and ur neighbor both want. They send a settler and a unit (probably warrior or spearman) to claim the territory; however, you want it. Set 7 units on an intercept course. Move closer and closer unti you can encircle their units, leaving one side open. Make that side the direction you want them to go. They can ether a) build the city where they stand or b) move through the opening; they usually won't want to start a war. Keep moving in the same direction as them to force them to go wherever you want them. You can force them all the way back home, or just hold them until you can claim the land.

For some reason in all my Cheiftain games I can get 100000000 gold per turn, all there extra Luxuries, extra Resources, techs, and maps. FOR FREE.

You just say acept this deal or suffer.

And the strange thing is that they dont seem to care. But I make sure to give them a lump sum of 50 gold next deal, to keep them on my side. I like to call this my Peace Keeping Fee




Has anyone else dicoverd this?


__________________
"An action without a dream is useless, a dream without an action is useless"

King Lewis- that is a bug that has reportedly been fixed with the newest version of the patch - apparently if you ask for a high enough amount of money they will give you absolutely everything you ask for. It sounds like fun...

You can also get cities.

Well...

If there is a civ who has no ROP and has units just stomping through my territory on the way to some far flung war (this tends to piss me off), I let him go until the flow has become a trickle. Meanwhile I stockpile troops along his border. Then I demand he leave my territory, he will almost always declare war because he needs to re-enforce his troops in his other war. Finally I swarm in and take some choice cities. This even works with more powerful civs. His troops are sitting ducks trying to slog through my territory to defend his homeland (they usually are more worried about getting home than trying to assault your cities), while I can defend where I choose or use fast units for hit and run attacks utilizing my road/rail network.

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
The sneakiest thing that I do is when they have a city near my border. I will send a settler (rush them in a war time) as close as I can to their border and build a city. THen I will rush a temple. In a turn or two the border expands, often flush against their city. If it is peacetime, you can be assured that even your swordsmen will get a stab at their city.


I used this to steal two fur spots from China yesterday:). They had 2 fur colonies on my border, so I sent a settler up there. They saw what I was doing, had rail, so quickly shipped a settler down there to build a city right by them the turn before me. I butted my city right next to it (2 spaces away), temple, library, and the furs were mine:).

Funny thing was, I was trading with China for the furs at the time. A few turns later (I have always renegotiate set ON) Mao shows up and says he wants to renew this deal: From me: 26gpt....From Mao - Nothing.

Gee, no wonder he wanted to keep that deal intact:).

Istead of declaring war which hurts your reputation talk to the enemy before attacking and ask for all there cities keep doing it. Eventually they will declare war and there reputation is ruinded

Originally posted by Psychlone
I tried offering each of them ROP just to get them through my territory faster so they could fight more easily (there were so many foreign units moving/fighting in my territory it was interfering with my own actions, clogging my roads, making workers wait to improve squares). Neither of them was willing to take ROP unless I paid THEM! I was totally baffled. They were fighting in my territory, and they could have been doing it with movement rates for friendly territory. Huge advantage to them, but they wanted me to pay for it, to the tune of 2-300 gold. *boggle* I think (like lots of things in diplomacy), this is based on your Power rating. It is certainly linked to at least one of the components of the power rating (cities, gold, wonders, military strength).

ROP value is based on the size of your territory. The smaller civ has to pay.

When you attack a Civ that you have a ROP with, is that what they call ROP Raping?

Yeah and also if you are just in their territory when you delcare war even if you don't have a ROP, they still consider it rape of the treaty. So don't do it.

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.


Sneak attack - give ROP, pile troops in, wait until ROP runs out - WHAM lots of towns for you



I did this once to the Persians, thinking myself very clever, but of course heard all about for several hundred years afterwards from every other civ on the continent. Essentially : "Lo! The Betrayer of the Persians! We will not trade with the likes of _you_!" Or somesuch nonsense.

Just keep in mind that if you do this, you _will_ take a rep hit even after the ROP runs out (apparently, because it's considered a sneak attack ... you declared war/attacked cities while having troops inside the other civ's borders).

Ive heard a couple of people on this thread talking about planting forests in enemy territory. It doesnt work for me. If I have a worker in enemy territory with a ROP, theres no plant buttons, or clear buttons. strange

Being as this thread is 5 pages long, I'ma post this without seeing if it was already mentioned. So, if it's a repeat, disregard.

Water is a resource. Especially to an AI that enjoys irrigating so much. If you irrigate at a border square, the AI will steal it, and run it to their cities. So I mine at the borders, keep my water for my people. Hell with them. Let 'em run it from that lake they have 20 squares away. Make AI waste time while I'm building roads like mad. By the time his border cities find out that water is wet, they're speaking Persian.

Later!

--The Clown to the Left

On ROP's:

Being as I like my reputation to be good--as my goal is to seperate the other civs for as much gold as possible per turn (luxuries in the modern age go for 30-50 GPT to a decent-sized Civ), I use ROP's when I KNOW a neighboring Civ is about to go to war with me. Soon as he comes in, is standing at my city, I offer a ROP, and send a worker a couple of squares out to say "hi." AI can't NOT resist attacking a worker, So this splits up their fast units from the defenders, leaving 'em unfortified, in the open. I call units like this "lunch." Then they're in my territory, the ROP is broken, their rep is hit, and everyone I was getting mass GPT from before is more than willing to continue to finance my military.

Later!

--The Joker to the Right.

No. Wait. I'm the other one. Damnit.

If you have civ's moving settlers through your turf (with or without a right of passage) or you wish to claim a particular map area for your settlers, then here's your answer: warrior walls.

3 warriors can block the movement of any settler units by putting a wall in front of them. Place 3 warriors in a line and align the centre one up with the enemy settler. As long as you move with them when they try to go around you they will never advance to where they wish to go. Usually they will get frustrated and go away but sometimes they will keep going for what seems like an endless amout of turns or will simply settle where they are. The trick is to try and stop them before they even leave their own territory!

example: (w=warrior, s=settler)

w
w s
w

DR, I love using that trick. It is very usefull on Deity to use three warriors/scouts to keep the AI from taking a nice city spot while weakening their startup & production bonuses (less chance to build more settlers)

In the last game I was playing, I was germany and it was the middle-middle ages. I had just begun crushing america with knights and my damn advisor razed 2 of their cities, and since it was like a rod into the sea(thier terrirory) those cities were the entrance point from my land to theirs. The enitire continent looked like a backwards L. I had "given" a city to russia after it was pilliaged by 12 barbarian horsemen for 50% of my treasury, and suddenly the joint turned into some kind of neutral embassy ground with 4 coutnries with cities on it. jeez. Anyhow, the second city I "razed" gave me 8 slave workers. I thought, great, mabye I'll turn them into citizens later, seeing as how I have 50% of the world culture. Well, I start to send them back, when I notice CHINA TRYING TO SETTLE THE CITIES I HAD RAZED AND CUT ME OFF FROM MY WAR SPOILS!!! So, I effectivly used 8 workers to form a blockade line across the joint in order to block them. This effectivly complicated matters becuase the russians had another city which the chinese protectors/settler kept on walking into. Guess russia was getting pissed. Anyhow, the problem was that if I let them have a city, the city might block off my spoils. Furthermore, Everytime they tried to get around while going into russian terrirtory I could not see them. I effectivly forced them to settle directly inbetween 2 russian cities thereafter. It was touch and go for awhile. So, next war, try to make sure that you have a few fronteir settlers avalible. Oh, china also made a city on the northern tip of my continent. It was assimilated, and the worker made a LONG trek south. hehehe. They never listened. 30 turns later china found 20 calverlry and 10 riflemen on its borders.


Oh, I never grant ROP unless I own my continent. I hate watching workers and armies move around.

A war during peace time.. hm, here 's a shot showing how they sabotage my wondrous wonderbuilding. Apparently you can alter someone else's improvements without causing an incident. They needed the irrigation for their city of course and we had just signed a ROP, so there was no peaceful way I could stop them removing my mines...

Originally posted by Diety
lol Ghandi complaining about workers...

I think that workers and settlers shouldn't count for that rule...


Because you can do really nasty things like irrigate their mines or mine their irrigation. Really messes up production/growth.

Welcom to CFC Hmmmmm! :)

Digging up old threads is usually not a great idea - the 'strategies' contained are often out of date. In this instance you could have posted in the 'short tips' stickied thread (in this forum), or you could have started a new thread.

Anyway, please take this as *friendly* advice (I've been accused of being an ogre lately ;))...

they never even ask me for a right of passage, they just walk trough, and if i say something about it, they will declare war.
(early game that is, when i am still behind)

so i just let them as long as it's no military units.

yeah, the ai always gets on you for it, but not for anybody else, i learned early to just forget my pride and be proud when i kick the crap out of them when i've already built an army

Also, privateeers are a good war to have fun during peace time, if you mod them to be 2/1/3 of course. (makes sense if real pirate ships sank galleons and such during the time period)

EDIT: my bad annarres

please stop posting in this thread - it is too outdated!

Originally posted by Jezner
My rec, avoid the rite of passage unless it absolutely serves your interests. And prepare for those bastards to expand into your empire at all costs.

Now does anybody know how to void a rite of passage pact without going to war? Or is there a screen which tells you how many turns are left in the treaties?
Absolutely, don't sign ROPs just to make friends.

In after you're in diplomacy with a country press Active on the screen, it will tell you how many turns you have left before you can peacefully cancel it. If you attack the same turn you have an ROP, no country will pay gpt you for one, and its a rep hit, If you have troops intheir territory when you cancel a ROP, and attack, no one will ever sign a RoP.

Another little tip is when you don't have a crucial resource, such as oil, rubber or iron, but you find one on an opponents land that is NOT occupied, you go and send a guy to settle on it. Send a settler by sea or land to that spot, and occupy it, along with a defender and a worker or two.

Obviously you know from experience that the sodding AI Civ will eventually want that resource in the future. So what you do is send 4 or more workers and as many defenders as possible, either by airdrop or ship, to the city, and rush build an airport. Then airdrop/transport 8-20 defenders to the city.

Now you need to fortify the city, by building fortresses all round the city's borders, so that any attempted invasion will be repulsed quite quickly.

You may need to send some cannons or artillery to the city, to help the defenders when an attack comes. ;)

This strategy has helped me on a number of occassions.

If you want to post tips, there are two threads stickied at the top of this forum: one for Multiplayer tips, and one for single-player tips. Much of this thread is outdated, the tactics referred to no longer work in the more recent patches. Much as I dislike doing it, this thread is closed.