Since Gotm27 is still in progress this game opportunity announcement will be somewhat limited in scope to avoid spoilers.

When I post the starting save file on February 2nd, this will include a more detailed preamble and story-line to help set the stage for your play opportunity.

This game is a "quick game"/"specific mission" captured from the play testing and development process that was used to produce Gotm27. The starting save file is an actual developed save file from the play test that will set the stage for you to accomplish a the task of conquering a specific opponent in the fewest number of turns possible.

Scoring will be based on a starting score of 10000 points minus an increasing number of points for each turn that it takes you to kill the target. You lose 100 points for the first turn, 200 points for the second turn, 300 points for the third turn and so forth. You also earn 200 points for each army and 25 points for each elite unit that is still alive in the former enemy territory when the last victim dies.

The game is on Monarch difficulty and is only available to play in PTWv1.27 due to the actual extraction of the game from an in progress game playtest. You must have the game packs for Gotm27 installed to play the game. You begin the game in the year 950AD and you are early in the Industrial Age.

Your challenge is to see how many turns it will take you to accomplish the same task that I completed in 9 turns during the play test. For some players this will be an easy task while for others it will be an skin tightening adrenaline rush of a new magnitude. Because of the sheer amount of bloodshed that occured in this phase of the play test it took me about 4 hours to play the actual events but many of you will play substantially slower or substantially faster depending on how you choose to proceed.

The Predator level extra challenge is to keep no captured cities and found no more than one additional city during the game play process.

To include the Civ3v1.29 players or perhaps some less experienced players who might feel a bit uncomfortable about playing from a tough preset position on Monarch, I would suggest the opportunity for a team/mini-demo game type approach where one player with PTWv1.27 will fill the role of hotseat/gameplayer while two to three other players may fill the role of strategic advisors to help decide where and what you should do next. Each team that elects to play the game in this mode may open an individual thread in this quick game forum to discuss their strategic play options and make decisions (other players and teams should follow the no-lookee no-cheatee rules until they have completely killed the designated victim.)

Individual players may also play the game on their own and just post a story/timeline summary of how the game proceeded.

If you would like to play the game on your own you may indicate interest by posting here.

If you would like to play as a part of a group or team, then please try to keep those teams down to no more that 4 players per team and use this thread to match up to make sure that each team has at least one player with the required setup. If you have more than one player with PTWv1.27 set up for Gotm27 then you should feel free to trade off on turns if that floats your boat.

This may be a great opportunity to experience a significant moment in Gotm27 that you may have missed in the first pass play opportunity.

The gauntlet has been thrown gentlemen. Lets see what Cracker has wrought for us this time.

How can I pass up an opportunity like that? I did run through GOTM27 quickly this month, so I would enjoy the chance to replay part of it, and the challenge sounds interesting!

Cracker San makes one last call to action...

I'm there.

Well, I never pass up an opportunity to show myself up in public.
Count me in.

This is awesome, cracker give us stuff even when he's resigned?

Bless that guy, I play!

I was going to wait on Conquests until it got sorted out a bit, but now I've ordered it just to try this !!

Just to avoid any potential confusion that Highdesert may have caused by the last post,

This game cannot be played in Civ3Conquests so there may be no valid reason to even mention that product here.

Civ3COnquests does include a version of the PTW excutable but there is some confusion as to how it is installed and supported since some players have reported functional problems that did not previously exist before they installed Civ3Conquests.

Yes, I had planned on using the PTW executable I was led to believe was included with Conquests...sounds like it may be hit or miss.

Since I missed the completion of GOTM27 I am extra geared towards this quick game. I'll play it alone I think, and try to add a detailed description of my moves and motives behind them.

I hope more players will sign up to see what differences the various players have in aggression level and planning micromanaging of specific post QTC game settings under equal starting conditions.

OK, thanks for your patience, all you Admiral Perry and Tom Cruise wannabe's. ;)

Your target in this game is basically cruise into the Japanese territorial waters and drop off your army and wipe out the Japanese in as few turns as possible. You can bring over as many reinforcements as you wish, of any unit type that you wish.

Japan in this case is played by the Oda clan lead by Oda Nobunaga himself and he is none too happy with you. When I played this section the game in the test play before Gotm27 was released, it was a real nail biter.

Here is an image of your invasion force staged offshore, just to the west of the Oda island homeland.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/presamurai_oda_west.jpg

You choose where you land and how you proceed, but you must be honorable and declare war before you actually invade the Oda so that you may retain your reputation intact. You have several Frigates off the north coast that will have to clear out of Oda-land before you begin your actual invasion.

Do not forget to look around well before you start playing the game. The Oda have units far off to the south of America and they have possession of the island back near the east coast of the former Viking playground.

Remember that this save game file will only work in the English language version of PTWv1.27 and you must have the game packs installed properly for Gotm27-America (the Game of the Year) before you attempt to load the game.

This quick game only took me about 8 to 10 turns to play but it took me over 4 hours due to all the unit tasks and the fact that I wanted to watch the combat. At one point in time, my units were running 75-80% wounded. I destroyed the Oda completely without capturing or keeping any of their towns on the main island even for a second. I only founded 1 new town on the Oda home island.

Good luck!!! See how you do with exactly the same staring forces and starting position:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/samurai_pred950ad_before_oda.zip

I am in. This is an awesome idea.

I won't be able to look at it 'till tomorrow, and 4 hours is probably more than I can manage in 1 night, so I'll post over the weekend.

:hmm: might give this a go!

Out of interest, 'The Last Samurai' was filmed in the city that I live in. The main reason is that we have a local mountain that looks a little bit like Mt Fuji! :lol:

I'll have to give this a try! :) (Although, probably later.)

Hehee, got C3C early (and PtW1.27f in it). I'm going to play, but don't know when.

Originally posted by cracker
... This quick game only took me about 8 to 10 turns to play ...

I had a very similar situation in GOTM27. The invasion force was about the same size. However, no settlers/muskets but stack of about 20 cannons/30 single cavalry and 2 cavalry armies. The force landed on a mountain in NW corner and was attacked by 30 samurai/kenzai/archers on the first turn. After landing, I managed to capture a nearby city and next turn, was attacked again with more samurai/kenzai, probably around 30 units also. This essentially wiped out the remaining single cavalries. The cannons survived but had to be upgraded to artillery to make any further advance possible. During this Oda got riflemen and before the end of the game achieved on the other continent, I was able to capture only 4 cities. Moreover, Oda was a cultural monster in my game and that NW town flipped 3 times. Basically, I failed miserably and certainly it would be interesting to try again with this save. But it take a really brilliant playing skill, some good RNG fortune and non-standard tactics to do what has to be done in 9 turns!!!!

I also have a question. You have mined most of the planes on the starting landmass. Is there any particular reason to do this because irrigating them instead would substantially increase the score certainly at some expense of production? I was in Republic (not Monarchy) and had built the core slightly more dense, so reaching size 12 for most of the cities and corruption were not a problem. This production/corruption was apparently not a big problem because my main mistake was sending this huge force to Oda instead of the other continent which then could have been conquered more rapidly. And even keeping luxury rate at 30%, research was going more rapidly than in your game.

I took a look at this last night and came to a conclusion about my game play. I don't like to waste shields (units) when I don't have to. I'll probably return the muskets to the mainland, build 6-8 more galleons and when Replaceable parts comes in, I'll load up those galleons with Infantry & Artillery and return to Oda land. The Infantry (with artillery) on a mountain top should provide a proper defense for my cavalry. I'll probably take longer (lower score), but that's just my preference for respecting my troops.

Well, I'm about halfway through (turn 6 IIRC) and all I'm going to say is it's intense. Will their be a date for posting our descriptions? Don't want to do anything that would be a "spoiler".

EDIT: A quick question, the "no more than one new city" I hope only applied to the Oda mainland, as I did also found a city on the barb island (you left a settler there) and the small island next to Viking land, I hope those don't count against me. I have only founded one on the Oda land, and razed everything I have taken, I assumed that was the intent.

Denyd, you have not chosen wisely. ;)

JustusII, lets give things till the 20th and then post a little discussion centered around next weekend. SOunds like you had the joy of experiencing the intent of this event and that it was exhilarating and lots of fun for you. (PS, you can wink and tell Denyd that he did not choose wisely as well).

Unfortunately, Denyd, Cracker San is correct ;)
I am reminded of a line from Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory:
Oh no, we must never go back. If you want to go back, you must go forward, it's the only way!
Otherwise, I will wait patiently for next week. :)

All right forward it is, let the blood of my troops be on your hands :)

It is not uncommon for brave souls to shed blood, sweat, and tears in pursuit of greater glory.

However, each death, no matter how seemingly trivial or how loomingly significant, must be weighed in terms of how effectively those sacrifices were in acheiving the overall strategic goals.

Orders do not absolve the general/admiral from the fundamental requirements to make wise strategic decisions and to consider all of the factors that will lead to the most effective attainment of the assigned mission objective.

Now; go forth and see how history will regard you in terms of leadership AND humanity.

I took your advice and did not wait (good thing, forgot about the rubber thing) - when do you want results posted?

I believe results were to be posted this weekend, I should be posting mine tomorrow.

Well, I haven't seen a post to open up for comments, but it is past the 20th, so here we go!

First, a big :thanx: to Cracker for giving us a very interesting challenge. When I originally played the GOTM, I invaded the Oda in a similar timeframe, but with somewhat different tactics. The Oda actually declared on me during my invasion of Scandanavia, but when I invaded their continent, in 880AD, I had a Cav army, 22 mostly vet cav, (and three elite knights), but also 20 muskets and 18 cannons. Also, my goal then was to capture the island more or less intact, as I planned on a palace jump to make an additional core, so the course of my invasion was quite different. Playing within the confines of this scenario made for some different choices, both the emphasis on raw speed and the restriction of only one city.

Although the starting forces were quite impressive (awesome job of barb farming to get so many elites, I need to improve that part of my game, not enough patience), I also wanted to maximize reinforcements, especially to get some artillery and more defenders over. To do that, I would need more ships, and for that I needed cash. I did make a couple choices that have been more hesitant about in the course of a normal game (turned off research for a few turns, selling maps and Iron relatively cheap) because I knew it was a quick scenario, but I didn’t do anything outlandish either.

I had taken a lot of planning time to decide the best course of action for the landing. With very few defenders, and no artillery, I was worried about getting overrun on the beaches. I was also concerned that without being able to capture a city, I would have nowhere to heal. With the 4 muskets being in one ship, I basically had to pick a site in range of that ship. The healing question got me thinking about how I could clear a spot for my one city. I certainly couldn’t afford to have it flip! So I took a printed screenshot, and a pencil, and started looking at the cultural borders of the cities. Here is a much cleaner looking map, with my observation:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/J2_Sam_CultureLines.jpg

Most of the Odan cities had already expanded borders to a range of 3, but Azuchi had a radius of 4. (Each colored line represents the borders generated by each city). This was causing a lot of overlap, and so I realized that most landing sites were within the borders of at least 2 cities, meaning even after landing it would take several turns to clear an area for healing, and building my city. However, there was one spot (the six tiles marked in Red) where I would only be within the borders of one city, Azuchi (the capital, ironically). (The blue lined tile to the East would be auto-filled by being surrounded). If I could land here, then destroy Azuchi the next turn, I would have a small ‘sanctuary’ outside his borders to heal, and could build a city with a reduced risk of flipping. Not only that, but it offered hills for defensive bonuses, and would take away his Iron source as well, preventing him from building new Samauri or Agashirus. (He didn’t have Saltpeter, so I wasn’t worried about muskets). Afterwards, it struck me as being similar to a jeweler preparing to cut a diamond, looking for where to strike it to reveal the facets. This was the ‘fault line’ I would hit, and try to crack him open. (For all the effort, it was a short-lived sanctuary, as a couple turns later the borders of Nagoya expanded to 4 :( , which would have filled it all in, but by then my settler had landed and I built New Atlanta).


Anyway, I was now ready to play the game. So on the inherited Turn 0 (950AD) I sold world maps around, which had apparently been held back, since they were quite valuable. I also sold Iron to the Greeks. I also debated selling contact with the Oda. Their troops on the Barb island were only 2 tiles from the Babylonians, but no one had contact with the Oda yet! If this were a normal game, I think I would have declared war immediately, killed the Oda forces on the barb island, and then I wouldn’t have to worry about a rep hit from having the frigates in his coastal waters. For that matter, I could then destroy the Oda and not had any attitude hits for razing his cities, either. However, based on the challenge, we had to wait and declare honorably, so I would have to take my chances as to whether the Babs got contact with the Oda. If I got lucky, maybe they would be afraid of the barbs and not move, and I could kill off the Odan units next turn.With my new cash, I rushed or short-rushed 5 galleons and 4 frigates back in the homeland. I also paid to investigate Azuchi (the capital), which had 7 vet Samauri, a bowman, and a settler. I also investigated Moriyama-ku, to get an idea of their non-capital defenses, and it had a Samauri and 2 Agashiru Spears. I moved cav and muskets to the ports which would build galleons next turn, and I was ready. In between turns, I could see some forces doing random patrols, but not too many. The Babs killed the barb volcano for me, but of course got contact with the Oda.

960AD (1) Move frigates, Declare War! I follow and kill his two known frigates, although I lose one of mine in the north. I also kill his forces on Barb Island, and land troops on Kiku island near Scandanavia. Now I am ready for D-Day. My initial assault includes the 4 muskets, 17 cav, and the army. The rest of the ships should be able to land next turn. I had a couple double back after landing, and transferred troops from ships at sea to coastal ships, so I could start moving empty galleons back for reinforcements.
IBT: LOTS of movement. Man, does he have a lot of troops, this could get ugly. Thankfully, the army acts as a big “Do Not Disturb” sign on my stack, and there are no counterattacks.

970AD (2) Bachs and Newtons both complete. Always nice, Bachs should help offset any war weariness, except we are a Monarchy, not used to that very often! Time to start clearing out a path to Azuchi. For now, I avoid the hills and hit the grasslands, killing 5 Agashiru, 4 Kensai, 2 Bowmen, and a Horse. I also am greeted by Robert E. Lee, who offers to lead an army if I can give him a place to rest (i.e. a city). The rest of my forces land, including my settler, so next turn we should be ready. To the west, my cav attacks the small island of Kita-Ku, and I kill the defenders, a Samauri and 2 Agashiru, at the cost of a Cav.
IBT: The army is still covering the landing zone, so the AI contents himself with picking off a couple of exposed Cavs. (I tried to ensure all attackers either hit stacks or could get back to the army, but nobody’s perfect!)

980AD (3) New Atlanta is founded on the beachhead, and short-rushes a barracks. Lee forms a Cav army. Time for the assault on Azuchi. It’s a bloody battle, as I have to first clear out a grassland tile en route. Altogether, I destroy 6 Samauri, 3 Agashiru, and 2 Kensai, at at the cost of 3 cav, but am rewarded again with Sherman, who forms another Cav army, and serves to cover our attacking forces on Azuchi’s ruins. Clearing more grassland areas yields 6 more Agashiru and 5 Kensai, for the loss of another cav.
IBT: The Oda again avoid the armies, and attack New Atlanta instead, at the cost of 2 Samauri for a musket.

990AD (4) More meat-grinding in the killing fields, I have tried to position my armies on the hills, and attack down to the grasslands:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/J2_Sam_KillZone.jpg

This turn, the result is one Otomo, 8 Kensai, 11 Agashiru, a Samauri, a horse, and a bowman, all for the loss of 1 cav and the gain of Grant, who forms another army. As shown above, I had also started moving north, but it was a little too soon. New Atlanta gets rushed walls.
IBT: The Oda are no longer in fear of the Armies, and I lose Washington’s army (on the Azuchi ruins),and a cav, to counterattacks, although he loses 7 Samauri, 2 Kensai, and 2 bowmen.

1000AD (5) More kill zone attacks, with the armies it is a slaughter now, I kill 5 Kensai, 13 Agashiru, a bowman, and a Samauri. MacArthur emerges, and after some debate, I decide to use him to rush the Pentagon in New Atlanta. I want it to generate some culture, and 3 4-cav armies are less vulnerable than 4 3-cav armies.
IBT: Counterattacks are slowing down, I lose a Musket and a Cav to his 6 Kensai and a bowman.

1010AD (6) We finally have some breathing room, the fields are starting to clear up:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/J2_Sam_1010.jpg

I kill an Otomo, 4 Kensai, 2 Agashiru, 3 Bowman, and for the first time this game, there are no visible units in the open! Patton arrives to form a 4th Cav army, and attack forces are positioned on the Coal Hill, and north along the river.
IBT Lose one musket, killing a bowman.

1020AD (7) We can finally switch over to the offensive, but the clock is already ticking. At Yokkachi, I lose a cav vs. a Samauri and 3 Agashiru. That was easier than I thought, and from the coal hill I can also hit Nagoya, where I lose 2 cav vs. 2 Samauri, 2 Agashiru, and 3 Kensai. In the north, at Moriyama, the fighting is tougher. I lose a cav, and an army is down to 1hp, vs. 2 Samauri, 4 Agashiru, 2 Kensai, and a Horse.
IBT: Nothing!

1030AD (8) Mostly move and heal, position two stacks forward. In the north, I have a 10/15 army, 5 elites, 4 vets, and 6 regulars (some of my reinforcements from home). In the south, I have two armies (14/17, 9/19), 5 elites, 3 vets, and 5 regular.
IBT: No counterattacks from the Oda, but we have visitors:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/J2_Sam_Greek.jpg

1040AD (9) Like I need another headache. I try to distract them with an alliance vs. the Oda (for 20gpt). Otherwise, I put some muskets on the hills and press on. Koromo falls, as I lose 2 cav vs. 3 Samauri and a bow, and I take Ogaki without loss vs. 2 Samauri, an Agashiru and an Otomo.
IBT: Greeks declare war, :mad: their archer and longbow suicide on fortified muskets behind walls.

1050AD (10) Ise is also bloodless, killing 2 Samauri,. I start with 5 frigates attacking Suzuka for a total of 1hp, and I lose 3 cav vs. 2 Samauri, an Agashiru and a Bow. I have enough attackers left, but Handa’s borders must have expanded to 4 in time to block me, and I can’t finish in 10:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/J2_Sam_Handa.jpg

IBT A bow kills a cav.

1060AD (11) My combined fleet is now up to 9 frigates, who still inflict only 1hp :( . However, Handa has no chance, and I kill the Last Samauri and 2 Agashiru, with no losses. My ending army includes 5 Armies, and 15 Elites left on Oda’s island:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/J2_Sam_EndF3.jpg

This scenario also marked my most extensive use of Ship Chaining to get reinforcements over from home. I was able to get a steady stream of 2-3 shiploads of troops per turn over, mostly cav from Scandanavia and the mainland, but also more muskets to cover stacks, and some cannons, although they were not really able to keep up with the cav. I rarely have done it on this scale, although I have sometimes used it for short “ferry” operations (like between the mainland and Scandanavia), especially with the modified Naval Movement costs. But in this campaign, I saw it as a way to get the first waves of reinforcements over 3-4 turns earlier than direct sailing. I had 2-3 galleons based out of home ports, to take units to the edge of the sea, then another set to pick them up and start the crossing, then more to cross, etc, while empty ships would sail back to take their place in the line:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/J2_Sam_Chain.jpg

Once they got close to Oda, I kept 5-6 of the original invasion galleons posted in the sea tiles. They could get troops loaded onto them, sail into New Atlanta, the troops could move immediately, and then they would move back out to sea. It wasn’t set up perfectly, but it worked, and by turn 7 (1020AD) newly produced cavs from Washington could attack Nagoya the same turn! The fact Cracker had named most of the galleons made it easier (and lead me to believe he made use of it himself!).

Overall, a great “special mission”, and I appreciate the challenge. I think if I had positioned my troops better at the end, I could have hit Handa on turn 10 as well, but after all the early work on mapping the cultural boundaries, I wasn’t paying enough attention at the end to see Handa had expanded. Finishing in 8 seems amazing. :goodjob:

First a picture of the results:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/GoodBye_Sam.jpg

First let me thank Cracker for this excellent challenge. I finished GOTM 28 early and have had quite a bit of time to play with this to get the optimum solution. I played this 4 or 5 times, each ending in the 12+ turns range. The problem was always the same, after taking the first city, the Oda counterattack left you waiting for reinforcements to arrive to restart the offensive. Even with the ocean railway, that meant 4 turns of ship movement each way. I tried rushing a bunch of extra galleys and that still left me at 12 turns. Then the light bulb went on and I was able to finish in 4 TURNS!!!

Now that I have your attention, let me say I'd never think of using this tactic in a regular game as you leave yourself very venerable to a long-term loss, but since the goal was Oda elimination and nothing else, this solution worked. I spent the first 2 turns (0-1) lining up my invasion force for Moriyama-ku. I wanted a city with a harbor for this to work honorably (a requirement). During this time I switched off research and rushed as many cavalry as possible and moved all troops and workers to one small city on each continent. Then in turn 2 when my deals with the Oda had expired, I declared war on them. I gave resources to Babylon and Greece to join me. Then I landed my invasion force of 38 units next to Moriyama-ku. I also landed a 4-unit force on the island east of Viking land to take Kita-ku On turn 3 my force was able to Moriyama-ku with only a single loss. I also took Koromo & Kita-ku. But for my plan to succeed I needed a GL and none had yet been born in spite of my using only elites, so my elite cavalry had to expand the attack zone until finally GL Lee (my only one) was born. He returned immediately to Moriyama-ku and rushed a Palace. My troops survived the minimal Oda counterattack. The next turn with nearly all off my units in 3 small cities on the other three islands, my plan began. I gifted those 3 cities to the Iroquois and magically my troops were transported to my new capital. Using the workers to rail paths in my lands and the one-move units to clear the paths, my cavalry took the Odan cities one at a time starting with Azuchi. That must have been a collection point for the Oda as I had to kill over 20 units in the city losing 20 my self. In the end with the workers laying rail paths to save movement points the cavalry were able to complete taking all the cities during turn 4, preventing any Odan counterattacks.

Of course now the rest of my empire is completly unguarded, but my concentrating on muskets and science, an infantry defense force could be in place in 10-12 turns.

Denyd,

That's certainly thinking 'outside the box'! It could be a problem if the Iroquois decide they don't like you, but hopefully they wouldn't know how to teleport units to your homeland! I was confused for a moment about your comment "I wanted a city with a harbor for this to work honorably" but I assume that is so you could keep your ongoing trade agreements, right? Also, you mentioned the two existing deals with the Oda, but since they were gpt coming to us, I don't think breaking them a turn early affected my rep.

Also, regarding the sea highway, it was possible to move units from home to Oda in 1 turn, but the ships must load/unload in the same sea tile. If you wake units, and then move them to an adjacent ship, that is considered their move for the turn, and they can't do it again.

Justus II,

I tried the sea railway approach in one of my earlier attempts, but I just couldn't move enough troops to make it work quickly enough.

Since I was able to produce 10-15 muskets in 2 turns, I would have a sufficient defense force in the homeland to wait for some of the military to be ferried back from the Oda lands in the unlikely event that the Iroquois decided to get ambitious. If I had been a little more calculating, I probably could have got another GL and returned him the homeland and move the palace back there and repeated the transporter process. This tactic may have to be discussed as one to be banned in future GOTM's as it does give the human a potential huge advantage over the AI.

My reason for delaying the invasion for two turns was that I was not sure how the gpt deals were arranged and wanted to proceed in an honorable fashion and also to use those turns to position my troops and rush build additional cavalry.

As for selecting a port city, the reason was two fold. First since I wanted to secure that the Babylonians & Greeks would be on my side I would need to be able to trade resources to them and those would need to be available to my capital. The second and more important reason was to have access to coal so that my workers would be able to build rails to speed my cavalry across the island.

I must admit the more I thought about this problem, the more I became determined to "build a better mousetrap". I'm not sure if I would do this in a real game situation, but now that I've seen it's effectiveness, I might try it.

Holy .... ! Sorry. Denyd, this is ingenious! I'm just thinking of how easy it was to win the game then. The situation was very similar in around 850AD. There were plently of cavalries and leaders in my game. And little troops in the homeland but very many in the Viking continent. And many were halfway through Greece looking greedily into Iroquois. Just make sure there are no deals with Iroquois, build a capital in Oda island, give to Iroquois a city with all troops (just leave 3-4 cavs around to retake it), get them to Oda and finish them in 3-4 turns. At the same time get another leader on the big continent, and repeat the trick with a city in Oda land. Then, declared to Iroquois, crush them in 4-5 turns retaking these gifted cities, and win 300 years earlier! And no violation of Palace jump rule! And no hassle with 20 galleons!

denyd: :worship:

That must have felt good. :)

Congratulations, and well played!

Akots: Very true, finishing this one would follow a similar path. Load up the Elite Cavalry on the nearby galleons and send them to Iroquois land. Once the first GL is produced, rush a palace and transport the balance of the troops from Oda land by gitfing a small city to the Zulu. During the sea movement, there should be enough time to produce a couple of cavalry to reclaim the couple of cities donated to the Iroquois for the Oda Invasion. Once the bulk of the troops are on the New World, taking enough land to break the domination barrier should happen pretty quickly. Probably a domination victory by 1200 AD.

MB: You bet that felt good. I probably tried 4-5 times to find a better way to make this happen in the 9 turn range that Cracker accomplished. Since he didn't use the little trick I did, I'm still quite interested in seeing what he did to speed the victory.

I hope this isn't taken wrong, as the technique was certainly very creative, kudos to Denyd for that. But I would certainly hope that this kind of "teleportation" would NOT be allowed in a regular GOTM, as it seems very exploitative.

Originally posted by akots
And no violation of Palace jump rule!
As currently written, this probably true. After all, in this case, you are using the palace for the free troop jump, I guess it would depend if you then build a core around the palace. But you are not taking advantage of the Corruption bug, just the "Free troop jump from gifted cities" bug!

Denyd,

Another opportunity to develop some real play skills squandered by the temptation to just "get over" and abuse the game.

Too bad. You missed a fun challenge.

Cracker,

I didn't miss the fun. I played this 4-5 times, enjoying each attempt to improve my strategy. My transporter solution was the only one to complete the conquest in less than 12 turns. I'm very interested in seeing how the island could be taken in under 10. This wasn't an attempt to gimmick the game, just an 'out of the box solution', after trying conventional methods and not being satisified.

@Cracker,

When will you reveal the "textbook" solution? ;) I am interested to see how you were able to pull it off. I also tried another attempt, with multiple landing zones, using the Army to cover one, and the 4 muskets on the hill to cover the second, thinking I could break out faster, but they avoided the army again, and overran my second landing. I lost all 4 muskets and 12 cav :o Ouch! Less than optimal. :lol:

Also, regarding the Palace rule, I certainly think this should be considered an exploit, and against the "spirit" of the new, untested palace jump rule. for an actual GOTM. I remember Akots saying that regardless of how it was written, there would be new exploits developed, and that is probably always going to be true. Sad to say, but it does lend support to the idea of just banning all palace jumps, although I think they are an important strategic aspect of the game. Tough call, I don't envy Ainwood!

Justus II, the best result I had pre-palace jump was to rush 8 galleys on turn 1 and use them to create a second front. This group (12 muskets & 20 cavalry) arrives about turn 7. I landed them on the mountain NE of Ogaki and the same time I landed my other force on the iron hill SW of Azuchi. I was able to spilt the counterattacking Odan forces that way and managed to complete the conquest 5 turns later (turn 12). I think I might have been able to shave a turn off that by switching landing sites, but I'm not sure the Azuchi group would have survived the Odan first strike with enough troops to be effective. Also the fact that there were no workers available meant using roads instead of rails for movement which slowed reaching the NW cities by a turn.

Edit: I agree with banning a palace jump for any reason except setting up a productive core of cities. My use of the palace transporter was a one time event. I really can't see myself using it in a GOTM anyway. In fact, one of my (many) shortcomings in Civ is I tend to play the game as if the units/cities matter to me (as if this was RL). I prefer to bombard opponent units and capture cities intact without suffering any losses, treating my playing pieces like real troops.

Denyd,
I agree getting reinforcements over was a critical part of this game, but I think you could have gotten them there faster if you'd landed first and sent some empty galleons back to set up the ship chain. I landed some of my forces the first turn, on the hill, covered by the army (the AI rarely attacks a stack with an army), and sent those empty transports back. Basically, turn 1 my new galleons are loaded with whatever vets I could scrape out of my homeland garrisons, and barely get out to sea. Meanwhile, my main force begins landing. Ships that couldn't reach the landing spot move adjacent to now empty ships, and transfer troops, leaving them closer to open ocean and empty. Turn two, they head West, while my reinforcing ships head east. On turn 3, they link up, and transfer the first set of reinforcements. Meanwhile, I continued to rush ships (2-3/turn) to keep the process moving. I also stationed some empty galleons just off the sea tiles near Oda. Now, on turn 4, those troops who have been transferred are able to move on fresh galleons to the edge of the Oda sea, on top of other empty galleons, transfer to the empty galleons, who move into my new city, unload, and since they haven't moved yet (transfers don't count as a move if they are in the same tile, only if they are in adjacent), they can move out and attack on turn 4! And from that point on, reinforcements can be built on the homeland, rail to port, board galleons, and through a series of chains, arrive in Oda to fight the same turn. (Of course that's why I think Ship Chains are an exploit also, but they are an identified and allowed one for GOTM). ;)

I appreciate your comments about the palace jump, glad you agree. I also agree with your feeling constrained by RL concerns for my "people", that's why up until the last few GOTMs I could never bring myself to move MY Palace, that's my ancestral home! I have also had trouble with razing or starving down cities to avoid flips, although a few really bad flips (especially in the tournament 6-4 Iroquois game and GOTM26) have helped me to rationalize my retribution. :mad:

I am somewhat more ruthless with my own troops though. While I certainly try to plan the most efficient attack strategy, once battle is joined I am more of a Grant than a McClellan, and when it comes down to it, I'll throw the walking wounded in if I have to to secure the objective. That's one of the reasons I have such a problem accumulating the kind of elite forces that Cracker gave us in this game. I know that good leader development requires careful shepherding of your elites, but in the heat of the battle, a 3/5 elite cav has the same combat effectiveness as a fresh regular, and I gamble too much with them. Oh, well, they say that admitting you have a problem is the first step on the road to recovery! ;)

Justus II, I thought about that, but wanted to force the Oda to have to attack at two places at the same time, so my ships remain loaded with the initial invasion force and are not able to move to complete the ocean railway (OR).

My other thought was to get an ROP with Oda, to allow the initial troops to unload and the ships to move to complete the end of the OR, but that would be a dastardly way to begin a war.

My other thought was to gift techs to Steam Power & coal (if they needed it) to the Oda so they could rail the connections for me, but that was going to consume too many turns to work.

Under normal circumstances, a long war in Monarchy is not very painful, so I would take my time a protect lose as few units as possible in taking the Oda, so that the survivors would be ready for the invasion of the other continent. But in these conditions, where there were no future campaigns, wounded units were used to attain the goal ASAP.

Originally posted by Justus II
Denyd,
(Of course that's why I think Ship Chains are an exploit also, but they are an identified and allowed one for GOTM). ;)
The only arguments against ship chaining are that it's disallowed by RBCiv rules, and the AI doesn't do it, which doesn't seem to be a powerful argument to me. It seems to me that an exploit is the use of a program bug to gain excessive advantage, out of balance with the resources required.

Ship chaining allows troops to get across the world in five, two or one years, just as rails allow troops to get across the continent in the same time. What's wrong with that? It's not free - it takes ships and considerable feats of mental gymnastics ... on my part, at least. And I don't believe it's only a programming bug that permits ship-to-ship transfers at sea.

You might as well say that we shouldn't stack workers more than two deep to build rails or clear pollution in a single turn. Or prebuild ... or a hundred other things we do that the AI doesn't.

Another thing about ship chaining, it doesn't give an increase in the number of units moved per turn, it just decreases the time between the units departing and arriving.

I know that everyone has their own definition of exploits, and I certainly didn't want to revive that discussion, that's why it was meant as a light-hearted comment. I've never liked the "AI won't do it, it's an exploit" argument, as you mentioned, the AI doesn't do a lot of things humans can. On the other hand, the AI never misclicks, forgets about units on goto, or leaves cities ungarrisoned either, all of which I have done my share of! ;)

My only 'problem' with ship-chaining (other than the incredible amount of clicking involved), and the closest thing to my definition of an exploit, is it is using the game mechanics to do something that I don't think they were intended to do. Ship-to-ship transfers I think were intended, but I think should use the units movement allowance, so it can only happen once. But its a)not overpowering, b)justifiably realistic (you're right, trains should not be infinitely faster than ships), and c)ALLOWED, so in GOTM terms it's not an exploit, and I'm not here to argue that it should be. As I said, it's usually more work than it's worth, so I rarely use it, but I thought this 'challenge' showed a good opportunity to test it out to it's full potential.

Now the Palace Jump Teleportation technique, OTOH, probaby merits some discussion....

But the Palace Jump Teleportation is currently legal...

It did take quite a bit of effort to wake all the units and move them to those couple of cities as well as the countless scrolling clicks to get to the next worker to rail a tile so that the military units could advance on, and of course the RNG luck to get the Great Leader that made the Palace Jump possible in the first place.

However, all that said I really don't like either ship chaining or palace teleporation and have rarely (if ever) used either in a GOTM.

I agree with Alan here, and nearly posted the same thing earlier today.

Exploiting obvious bugs in the programming should not be allowed. So then draw up a list.

Infinite shields under mobilisation
Remote palaces
.
.
.

eventually you get to RCP, free palace jumping and the distinction then becomes blurred between bug and limitation of the software.

Then purists argue that nothing should be allowed that the AI doesn't do. So no inchworming workers, pre-building, palace jumping of any description or ship chaining. Heck they even mine cattle around the capital so no settler factories. How about that?

Drawing a line is difficult, but it is drawn and denyd did not break the rules. If bamspeedy or Sir Pleb or Moonsinger or DaveMcW and half a dozen others had come up with it I think the reaction may have been different. Denyd used a known property of the program to accomplish the task set in the quickest time. That's all there is to it. Yes it's a trick, but so is ship chaining, pre-building, free-jumping and many other accepted practices.

Of course, the spirit of what cracker wanted in this challenge was not adhered to, but IMO he asked for it by setting a target, and a target set by him has a great big flashing light on it... which is why I still intend to take it up as soon as I get back from drowning worms at the weekend.

Originally posted by mad-bax
Drawing a line is difficult, but it is drawn and denyd did not break the rules. If bamspeedy or Sir Pleb or Moonsinger or DaveMcW and half a dozen others had come up with it I think the reaction may have been different. Denyd used a known property of the program to accomplish the task set in the quickest time. That's all there is to it. Yes it's a trick, but so is ship chaining, pre-building, free-jumping and many other accepted practices.


I'm afraid that what I was said has been taken wrong. I never said Denyd broke the rules, and in fact gave him credit for an innovative solution. This was a quick challenge, and he found a way to beat it that is currently within GOTM rules. I also said specifically that even under the new Palace Jump rule, what he did would be legal. I certainly hope Denyd didn't take it as anything personal.

I do think, however, that the technique he used could be considered an exploit, and that it would be a good idea to discuss it, and if so, get a ruling on whether it is to be allowed in GOTM or not. Akots made a point earlier about how this could have been used to accelerate a conquest victory in this GOTM by probably a couple centuries at least. I thought that it would be a good idea to discuss whether or not this technique should be allowed in the GOTM while it is still a hypothetical, and issue a ruling for everyone, rather than after reviewing someone's results who already used it, and gained an advantage over everyone else who was unaware of it, when hard feelings or personal pride/results might be involved.

My opinion is it should not be allowed, but that's just my opinion, and it's really up to the GOTM staff to decide. I just thought this would be a good opportunity to start a discussion.
:)

I agree with you Justus II (and I didn't take personal), this should have a go / no-go on it before the next GOTM is out rather than after. It's much easier (as with the FP move) to ban something upfront than to disqualify people after it's been used (easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission :D ).

I do think it's an exploit and personally won't use it in a GOTM whether it's allowed or not (similar to ship hopping, ROP Rape and capital abandoning).

This technique is magnified on maps similar to the last couple played (unlike the Med Melee or the Mongol Hordes) and could change domination / conquest completion dates by 100's of years.

Depending on what the next map looks like, we could see a lot of this technique causing an imbalance in performance, so let me be the first to propose the "Deny the denyd Palace Transporter Rule". Still allow for Palace moves via GL's but no city gifting after the palace moves. I really never saw a good reason to allow city gifting anyway (but that's another issue)

I've flagged up this discussion for the gotm staff to deliberate on.

I've used this once before myself in the MB4 SG, not in a gotm, as a lateral approach to get out of a jam. In that case it gave us an instant Dunkirk evacuation. However, I agree that it seems unreal and looks like a good candidate for a gotm ban. Once more, there will be grey interpretation areas no doubt!

My 2 1/2 cents worth regarding the Palace Teleporter: the 'Dunkirk Evacuation' seems at least plausible - you've given a city to some other civ, who guarantees your battered force safe passage to your capital. Another use would be to rush units from some far-off front to defend your capital, the 'Rapid Capital Reinforcement' technique; this could be useful under dire circumstances, but it's hard to see how gifting a city should enhance your units' ability to move, so this seems somewhat abusive. And then there's the mass movement of units from useless cities to a far-off capital on a hostile shore, the 'Capital Invasion Force'; this is totally abusive.

(Firaxis could fix this by moving units in a gifted city to the nearest city of your civ, and possibly imposing a % chance of death to each unit; in conjuntion, maybe provide the ability to teleport a small # of units, possibly government based, to the capital each turn.)

To quote SirPleb's article on Leader Generation: "Each time that you try for a leader there is only a small chance of getting one. So game strategies which rely on getting a leader quickly at a particular time should be avoided - there's too much risk that it will take a long time to get one when you need it." Assuming 20 Elite Victories (I'm not sure of the total number of Elite Cav that are committed, and not all will be Victorious at any rate), the odds of getting a leader are about 72.5% (non-militaristic, no Heroic Epic), so about 3/4 of the time you could get a palace built and teleport lots of units over, and 1/4 of the time you can't. What would happen then?

Originally posted by denyd
But the Palace Jump Teleportation is currently legal...
I would say that the palace jump teleportation is not currently legal based on my previous determination in March and April of last year that new forms of clearly exploitive play would not be allowed even if no prior rule existed.

In the form you used it it clearly was a lame excuse to avoid basic play concepts and I would not attempt to rationalize the clear abuse of under thought out programming features.

If I reviewed the main GOTM games and found evidenc of this feature, I would exclude the games immediately and without hesitation.

Originally posted by cracker

I would say that the palace jump teleportation is not currently legal based on my previous determination in March and April of last year that new forms of clearly exploitive play would not be allowed even if no prior rule existed.

I think it's safe to say that this can be agreed to by all. Unfortunately, this thread has turned into a discussion regarding this troop-warp tactic, rather than the proper technique for conquering the Oda ASAP. I am much more interested in seeing how Colonel Cracker, in charge of the massive American calvary task force, handled the Oda. :yeah:

My entry shows the absolute worst way to go about conquering the Oda. I may try again using Justin II's technique of landing everyone on the same square (if I can find some time).

The one and only try that I was able to perform had 2 split forces. The southerly force was 16cavs, 4 muskets, and 1 settler and landed on a hill. The northern force was Washington's army and the rest of the elite cav's, landing on a northern mountain. I also had rushed a bunch of troop ships and was planning on getting them into the new town.

However, dozens of samuri decimated the southern group. I was left with 3 cav's (-1hp, 2 @ -3hp) and the settler. This group pillaged the hill, then meekly escaped onto the adjacent ship. The northern group faired better, destroying two towns on the 1st turn and 2 on the second turn. After each turn, wounded units jumped back on the ships to avoid the samari rush. This turned into a really poor hit-and-run stratagy and it took me forever to conquer the island.

Having finished GOTM28 a little early, I started this scenario this weekend, and finished it early this morning. I assumed the Predator rules, razed all captured Odan cities, and only established 1 city on the Oda continent, none on the Oda island and 1 on the Barb island which I don't think impacts the play.

I didn't change anything in the saved turn, scoped out the situation and pressed enter. I started play on Turn 1, in 960 AD. I changed several builds to Galleon on the NE corner of the American Continent, I changed 1 city on the East side of the Viking continent to Galleon, set research to 0 (for this short scenario, I wanted the cash) and set several others to Cavalry. I decided that my invasion spot (marked on the map below) would be the hills tile 2 spaces SE of Azuchi; the hills provides good defense, the Capital is my first target, and this location is convenient to ship reinforcements to. I tend to be fairly careful when doing invasions, so I wanted a strong force able to withstand considerable attack by the defenders.

In 970, after moving all units out of Odan territory, I declared war, and landed 2 forces; the major one on the hills space I described, and a minor one, 8 units (2 Galleons full) on the Odan Island just East of the Viking Continent. Lots of units counterattacked on Oda's turn; I estimate about 10-12 units were lost on each side, but I was able to establish New Atlanta on the Odan continent in 980 (which promptly rushed Walls at 2x cost), and my Cavalry destroyed 11 Odan units that were in the Grassland spaces adjacent to New Atlanta. My forces were in place, fortified and had a friendly town to heal in.

Meanwhile my minor invasion cleared the Odan Island. Having read JustusII's report, I don't believe I built as many Galleons as did he. I used this Island as a staging area to send troops to the Odan continent; I had 9 Galleons set up to ferry troops over 3 legs; this allowed me to move 12 units every other turn to the beachhead, and they dropped reinforcements off in 1010, 1030 and 1050. I also had 2 Galleons on the Viking Continent ferrying units over to the formerly Odan Island, and 1 Galleon was in a place where it could ferry 2 boatloads of troops from the main continent to the Viking Continent. To supplement this chain, I had built a few more Galleons such that I landed 7 more boatloads of troops on the continent, 4 of them at one time forming a 2nd invasion near Yokkachi in 1040.

Here is a map showing the major steps, and when each city fell:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/cvst_LastSamMainArrows.jpg

After Walls, New Atlanta rushed (at 2x cost) a Barracks, then started on a harbor. After having lost 10-12 units the first turn, I only lost 6 Cav to Oda's 15 lost Attackers, once I was fortified in the Hills. The turn after that, when Walls were in place, the Oda lost 11 while I lost 2 (but one was that initial Army, which was partially healed.) I continue to destroy small stacks near New Atlanta, while my units heal and reinforcements start to arrive, in 1010.

In 1020, I threw every available, healed Cav, and even some Cav down to 3 hps, at Azuchi, and it barely held on (there was a 1 hp Samurai showing, so I sent a 2hp Cav at it, lost, and now it was a 2 hp Samurai; that's when I stopped.) The next assault, in 1030, takes it and Azuchi is no more. This opens the door to further aggressions. 12 more Reinforcements arrived in 1030. In 1040 a 2nd landing force of 16 units lands near Yokkachi, several Cav go north and destroy Moriyama-ku, and a penetrating 20 high stack of Cav head east to menace Ise and Ogaki. For some reason Oda puts a 20+ high stack of Agashiru Spearman in the hills near New Atlanta to do pillaging; I send some Cav behind them to pillage and cut them off from the remaining cities so they can't reinforce them. In 1050, another 12 reinforcements arrive at New Atlanta, the 2nd Amphib beachhead force, with help from the pillaging cav, destroy Yokkachi and Nagoya, and my forward Cav SOD destroy Ogaki and Ise, positioning 11 Cav to menace Handa and Suzuka. A small force of Cav tries to take Koroma, and is turned back. In 1060, the Cav SOD destroys Handa and Suzuka, leaving only Koroma, which is surrounded by 17 Cav. In 1070 (turn 12) Koroma and the Oda are no more.

A couple of things I could have done better: Nagoya is within striking distance from New Atlanta, while Koroma is not. I could have finished one turn earlier by leaving Nagoya to the 1050 reinforcements, and sent the pillaging Cav and unused 2nd Beachhead Cav to Koroma in 1050 for a 1060 assault. And I should have had a couple of Galleons in New Atlanta to ferry the reinforcements in on the turn of arrival; the 3 step ferry distance was exactly 24 movement points long so the Troops had to step off the ships on the last turn making them incapable of moving further the turn they arrived; a couple of Galleons in New Atlanta could have brought them in that last space, allowing them to be used 1 turn earlier. (In general, this would be better form, but I don't think I'd have benefitted in this circumstance.)

I was somewhat tentative at the beginning, but an initial assault on Azuchi might have cost me New Atlanta. I felt I had to hold defensively until reinforcements began to arrive. (Since then, I've had another thought that I might check out later.)

Ok, after initially being humiliated a couple of times in this scenario, I tried to give it one last kick last weekend. It looks like I was able to kick it pretty good, using extreme ship chaining and relying on an AI quirk.

Preflight check: We currently have qty (2) gpt deals set to expire in 2 turns with Oda. Also, no one knows the Oda exept us, even the Babylonians with their units on barb island. I move the musket protecting the workers up to prevent Oda and Baby from meeting.

Cities Switched to Galleon (rushed): Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Oxford, Las Vegas, Cleveland, Linkoping, Vasteras. Find a vet horseman in Cleveland so I upgrade to Cav. Move vet Frigate towards Oda mainland (away from Kita-Ku). 2 Cav on barb island attack (1 barb horse & volcano), -1hp & -2hp respectively. Settler joins Linkoping, Bjjoerg Point, and Uppsala to give in an effort to Americanize (unfortunately, no McDonald's unit) Find Olympia Galleon in Uppsala, Load with 3 vet cav's and vet musket and send West. Disband regular pike in Pittsburg to get Frigate in 1T; Hurry ironclad in Nottingham. 3 gold left in the treasury.

Reset slider: 10.0.0 (+717gpt, up to +725 with settlers joining Viking Cities)

IBT: 1 cav promotes to elite, defeating 2 barb horses

Turn 1: 960AD
Oda still doesn't know anyone so I guess the moving the musket worked
Galleons move into position around Oda. I have targeted a hill SW of Oda' Capitol.

Turn 2: 970AD
More Galleons move into position around Oda. I have targeted a hill SW of Oda' Capitol (iron hill). It is occuppied. Should I attack now or wait? Wait 1 turn. This will allow reinforcements to arrive anyway.

Turn 3: 980AD
Hills are still occupied. Well, no time like the present!
Trade: Oda: WM & 85g for TM (this leaves them 0g), then declare war!
Frigate bombards, misses; Land all troops NE of clam on grassland; Iron clad attacks Oda Junk and wins (-1hp). Frigate Bombards Moriyama, destroys barracks, 2nd Frigate bombards Mori, no damage.

The insertion:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/oda-graham-landing.JPG

(Cont'd)
I am expecting the worst. My split landings from previous tries in this scenario have all ended very badly for the group without the army. I now have placed all units in the same square so I am expecting an onslaught of Samuri and MI.

IBT: nobody attacks! Actually, lots of units appear to run around in circles (ala the old X-Com shuffle). Amazing... my vision begins to darken... A grey alien dances in an out behind a fence but does not attack, just kind of teases me. On my turn, I have Bubba auto fire his laser rifle at the fence near the wheat field. I move Snipe around to see if he can get a bead on him...
I snap out of it.

Turn 4: 990AD
Army attacks and kills Samuri in capitol (-5hp); Vet cav retreats from pike on hill (-3hp). This is too many units. I will generalize till the kills go down. Azuchi is captured (1 GL produced, 12 cav die, kill (I think) 3 archers, 14 pikes, 9 samuri, and 9 MI die in and around Azuchi. Settler moves over to iron hill, Azuchi is abandoned, and New Atlanta created. Rush Barracks. Create Lee's Army. Attack at Kita-Ku fails, leaving 1 samuri with 1hp left. I am rushing Galleons into New Atlanta as soon as I can to increase troop count.

IBT: New Atlanta: 1 Musket dies, Oda loses 2 Samuri and 2 horses, my armies are severly damaged.

Turn 5: 1000AD
Kita-Ku Razed. Around New Atlanta: Lose 2 cavalry, about 3 red-lined retreats. Oda loses 5 longbows, 4 pikes, 5 samuri, and 3 MI. I rest a bunch of units so they heal with the barracks. New Atlanta is completely surrounded by Oda troops. Rush harbor (probably should have been walls at this point :rolleyes: )

IBT: lose Lee's army, 4 cav's, and 2 muskets. Oda lose 1 horse, 3 longbows, 3 samuri, and 9 MI

Turn 6: 1010AD
Trades: Greece: 33gpt & WM for Iron; Zulu: wines, WM, 13gpt, 13g for Steam

Lost 5 Cav. Kill 4 archers, 10 pikes, 2 samuri, and 7 MI. Continue landing troops into New Atlanta, my ship chaining is very disorganized but effective. Rush walls.

IBT: Oda lose 1 MI, all Oda units basically retreat!

Turn 7: 1020AD
Move out to get ready for kill; I will follow a "hit 'em where they ain't" approach, attacking only cities and leaving the units running around to themselves unless they are blocking a specific path. Red indicates movement, yellow indicates attack path.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/oda-graham-1020ad.JPG

(Cont'd)

Turn 8: 1030AD
The attack follows the plan exactly. I hold onto cities until the end of the turn, allowing units a free pass to the next town (hope this didn't violate the rules) and speeding up the conquest. Also, I generate a GL "Sherman" during the battle of Koromo. He runs back to New Atlanta, forms an army out of 3/3 and 3/4 cavs, and moves out to postion against Ise. Actually, I flip/flopped the colors (sorry), red indicates attack path, yellow indicates movement.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/oda-graham-deathblow-1030ad.JPG

Turn 9: 1040AD
The end comes with the capture of the last 3 cities

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/oda-graham-theend-1040.JPG

Great setup Cracker :goodjob: Lots of fun while learning! It's amazing how a fully healed Army can convince the AI not to attack. In reality, the Oda should have laid it on since I only had 1 landing group but they didn't. Seeing all those troops move around, seemingly in circles, really took me back to X-Com and all those wonderful nightime missions. Maybe I'll try to find that version that works on windows...

@Grahamiam,

Great job. I wish I had thought to block the contact on Barb island, I only looked at killing them (not allowed) or allowing contact, I didn't think about blocking it myself. Also smart to send the Olympia Galleon west, quicker route, I slogged through all the coastal tiles and eventually added it to the chain.

As for using their cities for a turn, I think it was against the "predator" rule, Cracker said he didn't keep them even for a second, but it sure would have helped. If I were playing this in a real game, I can see where that would be really valuable (especially since there was no contact, so no penalty for razing!).

EDIT: I'm still waiting to hear from Cracker San to see his solution! ;)

Originally posted by Justus II
@Grahamiam,

Great job. I wish I had thought to block the contact on Barb island, I only looked at killing them (not allowed) or allowing contact, I didn't think about blocking it myself. Also smart to send the Olympia Galleon west, quicker route, I slogged through all the coastal tiles and eventually added it to the chain.

As for using their cities for a turn, I think it was against the "predator" rule, Cracker said he didn't keep them even for a second, but it sure would have helped. If I were playing this in a real game, I can see where that would be really valuable (especially since there was no contact, so no penalty for razing!).

EDIT: I'm still waiting to hear from Cracker San to see his solution! ;)
Thanks :)
Well, I'm not good enough to conquer that whole island in under 10 turns if I can't keep the cities during the turn they are captured. I never held them thru to the next turn. If I had destoyed them the instant they were captured, I would have needed at least 2 more turns, probably 3.

As far as the Olympia Galleon goes, I actually sent her NW then N then E around the Viking island, on the ocean squares. The cav arrive just in time to take part in the capture of Mori.

I am very curious to see how Cracker did it. I think I could learn some more valuable lessons.