The Great War [Archive] - Page 4 - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Rocoteh

Mar 22, 2004, 06:30 AM

TGW DIVISION LEVEL 1.6 by Rocoteh and Sarevok

TGW-DIV 1.1 and 1.2 removed after 290 downloads.
1.2a removed after 525 downloads.1.3 removed after 396 downloads
1.4 removed after 1 933 downloads
1.5 removed after 509 downloads
1.6 removed after 1194 downloads

You can now only download TGW-DIV at:

http://www.stormoverciv.net/forums/showthread.php?t=520

July 26 2008.

Rocoteh

Install them in the scenarios-folder.
Special thanks to Wyrmshadow for excellent unit-graphics.
Special thanks to Adler17 for his long support of TGW-DIV.
It have been of crucial value.
Also: Special thanks to BkGreatWarnut for support and ideas to
improve this version of TGW-DIV.
Credits: See the front page of this thread.[/B]

Rocoteh

Mar 22, 2004, 08:28 AM

TGW-DIV a comment:

Note that TGW-DIV is not just "TGW -50% ground units".

The system is based on Active divisions and Reserve divisions.
(First Line and Second Line divisions)

So were most of major powers armies organized when
the war started. One point however is that you can only
draft Reserve divisions, so as the war continues you will
see the general combat values of your units drop,
even if its still possible to build Active divisions.

The idea is of course to reflect the general fall
in fighting-morale that in the end had impact on
most nations involved in the war.

You will see that most ground-units stats have been
reworked. New naval features have also been added.

Later today I will make saved games available for
download.

Rocoteh

Rocoteh

Mar 22, 2004, 09:29 AM

As you see I had to replace 1.0 with 1.1 after only
2 downloads.

I have allocated many hours to bug-hunting still
I missed that the Ottoman cavalry was to powerful.

OK, now that is corrected.

Rocoteh

Metacomet

Mar 22, 2004, 09:32 AM

I'll try to play ASAP, I'm really interested :crazyeye:

Rocoteh

Mar 22, 2004, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Metacomet
I'll try to play ASAP, I'm really interested :crazyeye:

Metacomet,

I am looking forward to your comments.

Since I replaced 1.0 with 1.1 I have to remake
all the saves. They will be delayed, but not much.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Metacomet

Mar 22, 2004, 09:50 AM

Rocoteh,

Thanks, I'm planing to play with the ottomans. I will regain the empire of Suleiman II, I'll crush the british and the arabs (I hope the bulgarian army can cover my european side). And After that the balkans will be mine...jajajajajajaja:crazyeye:

Rocoteh

Mar 22, 2004, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Metacomet
Rocoteh,

Thanks, I'm planing to play with the ottomans. I will regain the empire of Suleiman II, I'll crush the british and the arabs (I hope the bulgarian army can cover my european side). And After that the balkans will be mine...jajajajajajaja:crazyeye:

Metacomet,

Yes, in fact I think the ottomans can be interesting
to play.

They can strike in many directions and their mighty
coastal batterys combined with mines is not easy
to deal with.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Metacomet

Mar 22, 2004, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Rocoteh

Metacomet,

Yes, in fact I think the ottomans can be interesting
to play.

They can strike in many directions and their mighty
coastal batterys combined with mines is not easy
to deal with.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Just like in the real war, I think that the Ottomans did a great job in the WW1. But, and I don't know why, everybody have the idea that they were the weak link in the central powers. I really think that this title is for the Habsbourg Empire.

Sometimes I think that is because the eurocentric history that we learn in Europe, now I'm living in USA but I have European formation, that don't understand the different peoples arround the globe.

Maybe is why i like to play with non-europeans civilizations and I try to change the history.:king:

Rocoteh

Mar 22, 2004, 11:00 AM

Metacomet,

Yes, I agree that Austria-Hungary was the weak
link in the central powers.

In TGW-DIV the Austria-Hungary Reserve division
is at about the same level as the Russian Reserve division.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Metacomet

Mar 22, 2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Rocoteh
Metacomet,

Yes, I agree that Austria-Hungary was the weak
link in the central powers.

In TGW-DIV the Austria-Hungary Reserve division
is at about the same level as the Russian Reserve division.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Rocoteh,

When you say about the same level you mean the A-H is better, am I right?. Because the russian soldiers only won to A-H forces because massive their numbers.

Rocoteh

Mar 22, 2004, 11:51 AM

Metacomet,

Austria-Hungary Reserve is 3-7.
Russia Reserve is 3-6.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Metacomet

Mar 22, 2004, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Rocoteh
Metacomet,

Austria-Hungary Reserve is 3-7.
Russia Reserve is 3-6.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Rocoteh,

I strongly agree with your numbers:goodjob: . What about the Ottomans numbers...can you give me that information...

CellKu

Mar 22, 2004, 01:32 PM

Rocoteh, thanks for TGW-DIV!! :goodjob: I have just downloaded it and look forward to playing it!!
CellKu

Rocoteh

Mar 22, 2004, 03:37 PM

Metacomet,

Yes the Ottomans have a "standard" (no split between
Active and Reserve) infantry unit that is 4-8.

CellKu,

I hope you will like TGW-DIV and I am looking
forward to your comments.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Rocoteh

Mar 22, 2004, 03:55 PM

Here is saved games for all the 7 major powers:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/TDS7.zip

Rocoteh

Download: TGW-DIV at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Sarevok

Mar 22, 2004, 05:02 PM

Very nice Rocoteh! Pleased to see it finally out!

Metacomet

Mar 22, 2004, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Rocoteh
Here is saved games for all the 7 major powers:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/TDS7.zip

Rocoteh

Download: TGW-DIV at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Rocoteh,

I just saw the new version, it's a great job.

Just one thing the Ottomans had more Raliways in Anatolia. I Attach a schematic map of Turkey showing railway development at the eve of World War One

Carl_0914

Mar 22, 2004, 07:04 PM

great!!!!! :) im playing it!!!! :)

Metacomet

Mar 22, 2004, 07:08 PM

The Main lines were:

1- Société Générale pour l'Exploitation des Chemins de Fer Orientaux. Istanbul to Bulgaria and Greece. 1871.

2- Ottoman Railway from Smyrna to Aydýn. Ýzmir to Buca, Aydýn, Sarayköy,Dinar, Eðridir. 1866

3- Smyrna Cassaba railway, renamed: Chemins de fer Smyrne Cassaba et Prolongements
Ýzmir to Turgutlu, Alaþehir, Uþak, Afyon and Ýzmir to Bandýrma,
1869

4- Société de Chemins de Fer Ottomans d'Anatolie
Istanbul, Izmit, Adapazarý, Eskiþehir, Ankara, Konya
1873

5-Société Impériale Ottomane du Chemins de Fer de Baghdad

Konya, Adana, Toprakkale, Iskenderun, Islahiye, Mediankebez, Nusaybin Baghdad

1904

6-Mersin Tarsus Adana Railway

Mersin, Tarsus, Yenice, Adana

1886

7- Chemins de fer de Moudiana à Brousse

Mudanya Bursa

1892

9- Transcaucasus Railways

Sarýkamýþ, Kars to border plus 750 mm gauge line to Erzurum

1899

Rocoteh

Mar 22, 2004, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Sarevok
Very nice Rocoteh! Pleased to see it finally out!

Sarevok,

Glad to hear that.

Thank you.

Rocoteh

Rocoteh

Mar 22, 2004, 07:17 PM

Metacomet,

Thank you for the information on the railways.
I will use it.

Carl_0914

Thank you.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download: TGW-DIV at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Sarevok

Mar 22, 2004, 07:26 PM

im going to try to make some adjustments.

Metacomet

Mar 23, 2004, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Sarevok
im going to try to make some adjustments.

Thanks, the Railway system was one of the biggest advantatge for the ottoman army.

Sarevok

Mar 23, 2004, 05:16 PM

they have a general rail system...

Rocoteh

Mar 23, 2004, 08:06 PM

Sarevok,

Can you on the front page put up some
info and a link to TGW-DIV?

Otherwise, some time after the first ad on
the main page it will be hard for most people
to know that TGW-DIV exists.

Rocoteh

Download: TGW-DIV at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Sarevok

Mar 23, 2004, 09:56 PM

yes of course.

Rocoteh

Mar 23, 2004, 10:52 PM

Sarevok,

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Rocoteh

Download: TGW-DIV at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Sarevok

Mar 23, 2004, 10:56 PM

when the announcemet comes up ill get it up there.

Metacomet

Mar 24, 2004, 09:40 AM

Rocoteh and Sarevok,

Are you thinking in doing a faster version with less cities?

Don't you think that Bulgaria was important enough to be a playable civilization?

Rocoteh

Mar 24, 2004, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Metacomet
Rocoteh and Sarevok,

Are you thinking in doing a faster version with less cities?

Don't you think that Bulgaria was important enough to be a playable civilization?

Metacomet,

I have no plans on that.

On Bulgaria:

More playable Civs means more waiting time
between turns.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Metacomet

Mar 24, 2004, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Rocoteh

Metacomet,

I have no plans on that.

On Bulgaria:

More playable Civs means more waiting time
between turns.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Rocoteh,

I know, I'm always asking for more and more:rolleyes: , yesterday I started playing with the division version. And I think that maybe the Ottomans have too many cities. Maybe I'll reduce a few the number of cities.

I din't really play test because I only play one turn, but I'll let you know soon:D

Rocoteh

Mar 24, 2004, 12:27 PM

Metacomet,

I agree with you.

Here an reduction is possible.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Metacomet

Mar 24, 2004, 01:21 PM

Please don't misunderstand me, it's a really great scenario:goodjob: . But it's only if you have the time to play a lot.

My problem is the time because job+family is a really big time consumer, no problem about the time with the family only sometimes about the job:cry: , and I think that a lot of people we need something faster with not too much cities and units.

In the same time I want something historically accurate, I know that I'm so difficult :mad: , my wife tells me that everyday :rolleyes:

Rocoteh

Mar 24, 2004, 01:45 PM

Metacomet,

I think with regard to cities a reduction is possible.

Concerning units: The next step is army-corps.
If CIV was a tradtional wargame it would work.
However with the current game-engine its hard
to make it work on army-corps level, due to high losses.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Mar 24, 2004, 04:07 PM

indeed, perhaps if there was a really small map of europe...

Sarevok

Mar 24, 2004, 04:11 PM

Rocoteh, i have a link to the download marker on the front post now as you requested.

Metacomet

Mar 24, 2004, 06:40 PM

Rocoteh & Sarevok,

I think that you may use the graphics of the Naval Mine by Pesoloco in the scenario, I think it's better that the missile

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22289&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=15

post: 284

Sarevok

Mar 24, 2004, 07:26 PM

ill check it out...

Rocoteh

Mar 24, 2004, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Sarevok
Rocoteh, i have a link to the download marker on the front post now as you requested.

Sarevok,

Thank you.

It seems like the impact of the main page ad
decrease with heavy increase in ads.

That is logic and the number of ads are not
likely to go down in the future.

Rocoteh

Rocoteh

Mar 24, 2004, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by Metacomet
Rocoteh & Sarevok,

I think that you may use the graphics of the Naval Mine by Pesoloco in the scenario, I think it's better that the missile

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22289&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=15

post: 284

Metacomet,

Yes, I think its look good.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Mar 24, 2004, 11:28 PM

problem is i cant edit the Units_32 file so I cant really use it...

Rocoteh

Mar 24, 2004, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by Sarevok
problem is i cant edit the Units_32 file so I cant really use it...

Sarevok,

You can still use it.

Rocoteh

Rocoteh

Mar 25, 2004, 07:53 AM

Auto-production in TGW-DIV: (In addition to other.)

Austrian Infantry produced at Vienna. Frequency 8.

Russian Imperial Guard produced at S:t Petersburg. Frequency 8.

General Comment:

Russia starting with 140+ divisions should now be
a "playable" Civ.

Rocoteh

Download: TGW-DIV at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Volum

Mar 25, 2004, 08:52 AM

Im so tempted to download and play the DIV version but i have to finish the SCC chronicle first, and i know if i download this il never get it done

Rocoteh

Mar 25, 2004, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Volum
Im so tempted to download and play the DIV version but i have to finish the SCC chronicle first, and i know if i download this il never get it done

Volum,

When you sometimes in the future have playtested TGW-DIV
I am looking forward to your comments.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download WWI - Global 1.6d (the new version)from:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Metacomet

Mar 25, 2004, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Rocoteh

Metacomet,

Yes, I think its look good.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Rocoteh, yes I really think that gives a better WWI flavor to the scenario:D

Rocoteh

Mar 25, 2004, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Metacomet

Rocoteh, yes I really think that gives a better WWI flavor to the scenario:D

Metacomet,

Yes, I agree.

I wish there existed a typical Pre-Dreadnought
to replace the Ironclad.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download: TGW-DIV at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Sarevok

Mar 25, 2004, 03:57 PM

a unit graphic?

Metacomet

Mar 25, 2004, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Rocoteh

Metacomet,

Yes, I agree.

I wish there existed a typical Pre-Dreadnought
to replace the Ironclad.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download: TGW-DIV at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Rocoteh,

I was looking in the units today but I didn't find anything that you can use it:(

Sarevok

Mar 25, 2004, 07:33 PM

therer arent a whole lot of certain graphic types. That is the main problem with TTK.

Rocoteh

Mar 25, 2004, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Metacomet

Rocoteh,

I was looking in the units today but I didn't find anything that you can use it:(

Metacomet,

No unit-creator have been interested doing a
Pre-Dreadnought.

BTW: They never post at "Completed Scenarios".
I think few of of them read it.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download: TGW-DIV at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Sarevok

Mar 25, 2004, 11:26 PM

indeed, so they know nothing of the demands of scenario creators. they just make whatever they want.

Rocoteh

Mar 26, 2004, 12:07 AM

Sarevok,

I think the fact that many unit-creators seems
to be uninterested to communicate with scenario-creators
says something about the situation.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

CellKu

Mar 26, 2004, 01:55 AM

Rocoteh, you did an awesome job!!!! :worship: :goodjob: It is so much fun to play it!!!! Well, I didn't play much yet, because I sat hours looking over all the units and checking their names. ;)Greeeeaaaat!!!! :worship: (Sorry, I can't help it. It's just great!!)

Btw, sorry, I didn't get back to you earlier. Real life kept me away from the forum. So, I look forward to the weekend. As soon as I have some meaningful information about the gameplay I will let you know.

CellKu

CellKu

Mar 26, 2004, 01:55 AM

Originally posted by Sarevok
indeed, perhaps if there was a really small map of europe...

Sarevok,
what do you think about Marla's new Europe map? It is rather small.
Link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69013

With respect to communication with unit creators. It seems that they either respond to requests in the main creation-forum or to pms. I saw many units that were asked for in the main thread appearing a week or so later in the units forum. I remember also that Kinboat made his recent Roman units after he was pm'ed for them. So perhaps the unit creators wait for the scenario creators' requests.

CellKu

Rocoteh

Mar 26, 2004, 04:28 AM

CellKu,

Thank you for the positive words.

I am looking forward to playtest-comments.

Once again: Thank you.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Adler17

Mar 26, 2004, 04:58 AM

Shall I ask someone in this or another forum to make a pre dreadnought?

Adler

Rocoteh

Mar 26, 2004, 05:07 AM

Adler17,

I would appreciate that.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Adler17

Mar 26, 2004, 08:56 AM

Okay, I did. IIRC there is a predreadnought, bur only a fictional one.

Adler

Rocoteh

Mar 26, 2004, 09:38 AM

Adler17,

Thank you.

I think its better to use that one than the
the Ironclad, or what do you say Sarevok?

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Adler17

Mar 26, 2004, 10:50 AM

Here are the units:

1. Wyrmshadows fictional: http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?t=5779

2. Joebasstards: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17916

There is also another Dreadnought. However there shall also be another ship by smoking mirror. I didn´t found it yet.

Adler

Metacomet

Mar 26, 2004, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Adler17
Okay, I did. IIRC there is a predreadnought, bur only a fictional one.

Adler

Adler 17,

Can you give me the link to the unit, because I want to see it.:goodjob:

EDIT: You did when I was writing, thanks a lot:eek:

Adler17

Mar 26, 2004, 02:57 PM

Here is another unit by Wyrmshadow. As it represents the Austrian armoured cruiser of the Monarch class I didn´t find it. It might be the best of these three ships, although a bit small.

http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?t=5780

Adler

Sarevok

Mar 26, 2004, 05:30 PM

except there is not download icon of anykind nor screenshots at the CDG site...

Metacomet

Mar 26, 2004, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Sarevok
except there is not download icon of anykind nor screenshots at the CDG site...

Thank godness is not only me:crazyeye: , I though that was dumb enough not to see the downloads:D

Sarevok

Mar 26, 2004, 08:09 PM

indeed.

Adler17

Mar 26, 2004, 10:45 PM

I can see the downloads with no problems. Do I have problems :confused: :crazyeye: ? I just dowloaded both. But I get Problems with attaching, becuase they are too big. I send you a PM if possible, Sarevok.

Adler

Sarevok

Mar 27, 2004, 01:49 AM

use the easy file upload feature to attach them

Rocoteh

Mar 27, 2004, 02:00 AM

I regard the initial download stats on TGW-DIV
as positive, even if still wish there was an auto-counter.

If the limit for attached file was 200 kb the problem
for most biq-dowloads would be solved.

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Mar 27, 2004, 02:02 AM

it is good, but it soley relies on the front page updates.

Rocoteh

Mar 27, 2004, 02:09 AM

I would say that most scenarios rely hard
on main page ads, since it was introduced.

Rocoteh

Download: TGW-DIV at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Sarevok

Mar 27, 2004, 02:26 AM

especially ones not blatantly displayed and avalible for download on the front page of the thread.

Adler17

Mar 27, 2004, 03:30 AM

What is the Easy file upload feature? :confused: I try, but the files are too big. Help.

Adler

Rocoteh

Mar 27, 2004, 04:25 AM

Adler17,

Its a good idea to first compress the files with Winzip.

I then choose to rename the Winzip-file.
In your case, for example Ad17.

You then scroll down this page. Down to the right
you will see upload file.

You click on that. Then copy the link:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/

If you have located the Win.zip file in a folder
called Uploads, you open the that folder and click
open Ad17.

You now click upload. After a while you will get
confirmation the upload is OK.

You will now have a file with name Ad17.zip. uploaded.

Send a PM to Sarevok with this link:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ad17.zip

I hope it will work.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Adler17

Mar 27, 2004, 04:51 AM

Thanks Rocoteh.
Here they are:
www.civfanatics.net\uploads7\monarch.zip
www.civfanatics.net\uploads7\casematebb.zip

Adler

P.S. Difficult birth ;)

Rocoteh

Mar 27, 2004, 05:00 AM

Adler17,

Thank you.
I will do that.

Edit: If you change Monarch.zip to monarch.zip the link will work.
Edit: Both links works. Thank you.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Rocoteh

Mar 27, 2004, 08:13 AM

TGW-DIV is still far away, but if it will work I will
include the communist-revolution in the same
way as in the next version of WWI - Global.

Rocoteh

Download: TGW-DIV at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Sarevok

Mar 27, 2004, 10:08 AM

how would that work out? I am most interested in how that would happen.

CellKu

Mar 27, 2004, 11:35 AM

Me too!!

Btw, litte remark on TGW-DIV (just to let you know for further development):
The Siege gun and the 210mm gun have the same civilopedia entry. Problem about that is that the civilopedia shows the same price (amount of shields) for both, although the Siege is more expensive.

CellKu

CellKu

Mar 27, 2004, 11:47 AM

I have just read your comment on implementing the Russian revolution in the TOE-thread. Very good!!
Since the TGW-map is much smaller, you might want to make sure that the Soviet city is not connected by roads (to slow down their initial progress). But perhaps you can give them a worker (to let them build roads and thereby help them to speed up their development later in the game).

CellKu

Rocoteh

Mar 27, 2004, 01:11 PM

CellKu,

On the civilopedia question:

I can only correct that if I go from biq-download
to a "big" download.

On the communist-revolution:

I will place the communist-city far north-east.
Since time-scale differ from WWI - Global
the communist-leaders will have less strenght-points,
to slow down advance.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Mar 27, 2004, 03:02 PM

i cant wait to see this implemented!

Rocoteh

Mar 27, 2004, 03:35 PM

Sarevok,

In fact I think it will be easier to implement it
in TGW - DIV than in WWI - Global.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download WWI - Global 1.6d (the new version)from:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Sarevok

Mar 27, 2004, 05:24 PM

becasue they wont go on the chinese?

Rocoteh

Mar 27, 2004, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Sarevok
becasue they wont go on the chinese?

Sarevok,

Yes you are right.

They can only go for Russia.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download WWI - Global 1.6d (the new version)from:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Sarevok

Mar 28, 2004, 12:09 AM

but it ill be hard to make them hit in 1917...

Rocoteh

Mar 28, 2004, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by Sarevok
but it ill be hard to make them hit in 1917...

Sarevok,

Yes I know, but as I see it the Tsar-rule was
doomed anyway after the murder on Stolypin,
and could have fallen 1915 as well as 1917.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download WWI - Global 1.6d (the new version)from:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Sarevok

Mar 28, 2004, 11:25 AM

so make their emergence slow, and by 1917, revolution will be in full swing.

Rocoteh

Mar 28, 2004, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by Sarevok
so make their emergence slow, and by 1917, revolution will be in full swing.

Sarevok,

Yes, I would say that is possible.

Communist-leaders have been reduced from 6 to 4:

Stalin, Kirov, Sinovjev and Kamenjev.

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Mar 28, 2004, 12:59 PM

those arent all the big leaders though.... where is Trotsky?

Rocoteh

Mar 28, 2004, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Sarevok
those arent all the big leaders though.... where is Trotsky?

That depends how you look on the history of
communism...., but yes I agree Trotsky will be
included after all.

Rocoteh

Download WWI - Global 1.6d (the new version)from:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Sarevok

Mar 28, 2004, 03:29 PM

ok, just curious...

Klyden

Mar 28, 2004, 10:07 PM

I have been tinkering around with TGW-divisional version. This is a very worthy version of the orginal game and I think I will probably like it better than the original game. I especially like the Swiss static units preventing a right of passage blitz by the various powers through a neutral Switzerland. I think there is an opportunity/need to repeat this elsewhere as well.

I tried a turn as the German and using right of passage through Holland, I was able to not only overrun Belguim (probably going to happen anyway), but also capture Arras, Calas, Amiens, Caen and Cherbourg on the first turn. This resulted in most of the French fleet being destroyed in port. I think if I tinkered with it a bit and made a concerted effort, I could probably have captured Paris. The German bank account was very fat from destroying Belguim on the first turn and also capturing all the French cities.

I next tried the French out and on their first turn, they captured Essen, Bremen, Hamburg, Lubeck and Kiel and obviously destroyed the bulk of the German fleet. I also destroyed the two big German siege guns set up to shell Liege. The Germans were not only not able to take any of these cities back, but did not take any Belgian cities either as I put some units in front of Liege. France also ended the first turn with close to 15k in gold.

I believe a fix like the one employed in Switzerland will help with this and placing a small, non-moble static defender in the square between Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and Arnhem in Holland will prevent right of passage abuse and also a unit between Antwerp and Brussles as well. This unit won't slow the Germans down much, but will prevent the French from sending a bunch of troops into the German rear right off the bat. Having the French fleet out to sea near their harbors on the first turn might help as well to discourage the Germans from making a risky attack to destroy the French fleet.

One last thing I might suggest is to make the French have to pass on their first turn. The Germans have the initative in the West and should be allowed to move first.

Overall, much improved from the orginal I saw awhile ago.

Sarevok

Mar 28, 2004, 11:03 PM

Good report. What would you suggst to improve the original version?

Rocoteh

Mar 28, 2004, 11:45 PM

Klyden,

Thank you for a very interesting report.
I will include all the changes you propose
in the next version.

I also consider to reduce the power of cavalry-divisions.

The cavalry division 1914 was nothing more than a
small infantry division with some mobility(since the
machine-gun had made charges a very bad idea).

A French active division had 18 000 men, 36 guns
and 24 machine-guns.
A French cavalry division had 5 400 men 8 guns and
6 machine-guns.

Once again: Thank you for a very interesting report.

Best Regards

Download: TGW-Division level (fast) at:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1694069#post1694069

Rocoteh

Klyden

Mar 29, 2004, 08:22 AM

I think it might be a matter of personal preference for me. Both versions are good, but I just like the divisional one better. (In my eyes, it is the improved original).

The French cav did not play a huge role in the French offensive. I did use them for a bit of scouting/spotting and also to destroy the two artillery units. I also used them to finish off weaken second line units, which they should be able to do. The main work was done by the 4 French Corps markers. The garrisons in those coastal cities are weak numerically. I believe I lost 1 infantry and 2 cav units in my offensive. The Germans destroyed 8 or 9 French units in their counter offensive (all infantry or machine gun) and took pretty hefty losses themselves.

The German cav (being more capable) did play a bigger role in the German offensive, but again, I mainly used them to deal with the weak garrisons rather than using them en-mass against a good French infantry division.

Rocoteh

Mar 29, 2004, 10:25 AM

Klyden,

Thank you for the interesting comments.

I will look over both garrisons in coastal cities
and number of Corps units to the next version.
(In addition to what you mentioned in your previous post.)

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download the new fast WWI - Global 1.8 at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Adler17

Mar 29, 2004, 11:08 AM

I think the Austrians should get a better defence in the Alps. There were heavy fightings, and because of the terrain the Italians were not able to break through the small Austrian lines.

Adler

Rocoteh

Mar 29, 2004, 12:34 PM

Adler17,

Thank you for the comment.

I will write a note and try to correct the
problem in the next version

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download the new fast WWI - Global 1.8 at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Sarevok

Mar 29, 2004, 05:04 PM

but... how to update the regular version?

Rocoteh

Mar 29, 2004, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by Sarevok
but... how to update the regular version?

Sarevok,

The regular TGW has been done in 6 versions.
I think you have solved most of the problems.

Can you confirm that the link below works.
That is: Give the right zoom.
If not I have to correct it in some way.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download the new fast WWI - Global 1.8 at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Sarevok

Mar 29, 2004, 07:28 PM

problems... I want things to make it better...

Adler17

Mar 29, 2004, 10:46 PM

German squadrons in August 1914:

Battlesquadrons Pre- Dreadnaught:

II. Geschwader:
Preußen (f)
Schlesien
Hannover
Hessen
Lothringen
Schleswig- Holstein
Pommern
Deutschland

IV. Geschwader
Wittelsbach (f)
Wettin
Mecklenburg
Schwaben
Braunschweig
Elsaß
Zähringen

V. Geschwader
Kaiser Wilhelm II. (f)
Kaiser Wilhelm der Große
Kaiser Barbarossa
Kaiser Friedrich III.
Kaiser Karl der Große
Wörth
Brandenburg

VI. Geschwader (coastal BB)
Hildebrand (f)
Heimdall
Hagen
Frithjof
Aegir
Odin
Beowulf
Siegfried

Dreadnaught squadrons:

Fleet Flagship Friedrich der Große

I. Geschwader
Ostfriesland (f)
Thüringen
Helgoland
Oldenburg
Posen
Rheinland
Nassau
Westfalen

III. Geschwader
Prinzregent Luitpold (f)
Kaiserin
Kaiser
König Albert
König
Großer Kurfürst
Markgraf
Kronprinz

Cruiser:
Battlecruiser:
I. Aufklärungsgruppe
Seydlitz (f)
Moltke
von der Tann
Derfflinger

Armoured Cruiser:
III. Aufklärungsgruppe
Blücher (f)
Roon
Yorck
Prinz Adalbert
Prinz Heinrich

V. Aufklärungsgruppe
Hansa (f)
Vineta
Victoria Louise
Hertha

Light Cruiser:
II. Aufklärungsgruppe
Cöln (f)
Mainz
Srtralsund
Kolberg
Rostock
Straßburg
Graudenz

Destroyer:
Torpedobootsflotille I- VII (each 1 flag boat and two half flotillas with 5 boats each)

Uboats:
Unterseebootflotille I
CL Hamburg (f)
2 DD
U 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18

Unterseebootflotille II
CL Stettin
2 DD
U 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 27, 28

Additional 8 CL and 16 DD in port defense groups. The East Asia Squadron with Armourerd Cruiser Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, CL Leipzig, Dresden, Nürnberg and Emden; in East America (Caribic) CL Karlsruhe, in German East Africa CL Königsberg. All of these ships out of Germany were lost during the first month. Only Königsberg survved until 1915 when she was lost due to artillery fire by British monitors in the Rufidij Delta in German East Africa. She shot the plane down which was the eye of the enemy monitors, but too late. AFAIK it is the first plane shot down by the FlaK of a ship.

Adler

P.S. I forgot to mention BC Goeben and CL Breslau which were "bought" by Turkey and fought in the black sea/ Mediterrean sea.

I posted this at Marla´s. I think the smaller ships should get original names. Also there are some minor spelling errors (Helgoland, Thüringen, Prinzregent Luitpold, Von der Tann and Friedrich der Große)

Adler

Sarevok

Mar 29, 2004, 10:55 PM

this is alot.... ALOT. Thank you very much Adler. I will be sure to use this new information togood effect.

Rocoteh

Mar 29, 2004, 11:15 PM

I second that.

Thank you Adler17.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Mar 29, 2004, 11:54 PM

It is all good information, but with the time I have in my life I can do little editing anymore. Even leaving my position in DG4 wont help...

Rocoteh

Mar 30, 2004, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by Sarevok
It is all good information, but with the time I have in my life I can do little editing anymore. Even leaving my position in DG4 wont help...

Sarevok,

You should always give real-life problems
priority. No one expects anything else.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Mar 30, 2004, 12:04 AM

its a personal nagging problem. I want to update all of these maps, but it issimply impossible to do with the time I have. The problem is that robots dont exist to do it all for me... That would be nice, but unrealistic. I need to club the guy who wrote my school schedule...

Rocoteh

Mar 30, 2004, 12:10 AM

Sarevok,

I think its a good idea to slow down, make a
priority list and follow that.

Otherwise there is a risk you will be burned out
with regard to all CIV-related subjects.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Mar 30, 2004, 12:13 AM

(I am burned-out)

Rocoteh

Mar 30, 2004, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by Sarevok
(I am burned-out)

Sarevok,

Then the only good thing to do
is to slow down all projects sharply to
regain power.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Mar 30, 2004, 12:30 AM

I hope I can...

Rocoteh

Mar 30, 2004, 08:17 AM

Delayed delivery of my new computer
have also delayed TGW-Division Level 1.2.

No target date yet since I want to allocate
playtest-time to it.

Rocoteh

Download the new fast WWI - Global 1.8 at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Mr Black

Mar 30, 2004, 03:45 PM

Sarevok,

I loaded up a game at Lieutenant General level and noticed that most civs were creating new cities, with settlers. Since settlers are unavailable to everybody, I’m assuming you don’t want this.

Under ‘General Settings’, the Default Starting unit 1 is a settler. That means that for levels ‘Lieutenant General, General, and Marshall’ all of the AI civs will start with at least 1 settler. Or just change, the type 1 starting units, for each difficult level to 0.

Oh, and great scenario! :goodjob:

Sarevok

Mar 30, 2004, 05:11 PM

ill get that, thank you MR. Black :)

Rocoteh

Mar 30, 2004, 10:22 PM

I welcome playtest-reports on TGW-Divisional level.

They are of crucial of value.

As soon as my new computer is delivered I will
myself starting playtest and report here.

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Mar 30, 2004, 11:40 PM

ooh... I like that very much :D

CellKu

Mar 31, 2004, 02:03 AM

Rocoteh, since I will be away for about a week, my TGW-DIV report will be delayed. I apologize for that!

Sarevok, is the April 10-release for TGW postponed, as well (you mentioned in the TOE-thread that all (!) projects will be delayed)?

CellKu

Rocoteh

Mar 31, 2004, 05:22 AM

CellKu,

No problem.

How much delayed TGW-Division Level version 1.2
will be depends on how much delayed delivery
of my new computer will be.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download the new fast WWI - Global 1.8 at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Aeon221

Mar 31, 2004, 05:37 AM

I am having a problem with opening the TGW-DIV 1.1 game. It says I am missing the pedia Icon for kavallerie. From looking at the editor, I have ascertained that several other units in the one I downloaded may also be suffering from this lack, in that a picture does not show up and I am requested to enter an integer from 1-349. I have downloaded it again and I will try again, but what do you think the problem is?

Is it that I need to dl the whole TGW scenario?

Aeon221

Mar 31, 2004, 05:45 AM

:o

Please disregard stupidity

Rocoteh

Mar 31, 2004, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by Aeon221
:o

Please disregard stupidity

Aeon221,

I do not think the question is stupid.

TGW-DIV is not a stand-alone scenario.
You have to download and install TGW main first.
After that TGW-DIV will load without problem.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download the new fast WWI - Global 1.8 at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Adler17

Mar 31, 2004, 09:58 AM

Finally a very bit time to play TGW Div 1.1. First a suggestion. The Minefield in the Skagerrak should be a normal minefield, not a floating one. Otherwise it is too easy for the British to break through.
I play as German. In the very first turn I captured Belgium (from the Netherlans). In the North I also captured Calais, but the French made there a counterattack and the town was lost again. Nevertheless the French fleet is extremely weakened because of that. The losses in Calais were aproximately 6 or seven units but the French lost also 4 or 5 and other severely damaged.
In the southern paert of the front I took Nancy and some of the fortofications there. Over 30 enemy units were destroyed there for the loss of 6 or 7 (because of the use of corps and the artillery). The counter strike there was other than Calais not successful loosing 3 units for the price of at least 5 enemy units and two heavily damaged corps. Both are now in very danger.
If I´m able to beat the remainig French troops here the French army will suffer from these losses and France will be doomed.
The war in the air is not very exciting. Only a few recce missions and no bombing until now.
The war at sea is also not very exciting. The French fleet bombed Calais helping their forces. The RN sends some predreadnoughts to Flandern. My Navy could attack them, but I fear the main fleet will either break through the Skagerrak or will have the Helgoland battle. But this time Ingenohl will not make his error to leave the small cruisers alone. With mines and subs I will beat the RN very hard.
In the east the Iwan tries to invade West Prussia and Posen. I won´t do anything now. They are too slow to threat me now. In the next turn I have to do something but not now.
Und nun heizen wir den Franzmännern ein! Vorwärts, für Kaiser und Reich. :soldier: :ar15:

Adler

Rocoteh

Mar 31, 2004, 10:21 AM

Adler17,

Thank you for a very interesting report.

I am writing notes to the next version of TGW-DIV.

I will rebase the French naval forces to the west.

Maybe also no nation should start with Corps-units.
It seems to give to much initial punch-power.

A general reflection after reading the news that
CIV 4 will be published 2005.

I hope they introduce the command point system
used in many wargames.
That would make it easier to create more realistic
scenarios.
The basic problem with the current game-engine
is that you can do to much with the units.
One can keep all units on offensive turn after turn
and so on.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download the new fast WWI - Global 1.8 at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Aeon221

Mar 31, 2004, 01:39 PM

Umm... is it supposed to say 'We love the Primie Minister day"?

I think that that may be a spelling mistake.

Just maybe.

Rocoteh

Mar 31, 2004, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Aeon221
Umm... is it supposed to say 'We love the Primie Minister day"?

I think that that may be a spelling mistake.

Just maybe.

Aeon221,

Unclear to me.

Honestly, I do not know what you refer to.
Edit: I am from a non-english nation. Although
I do not know the english well I think you are
in some way refering to yourself.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Download the new fast WWI - Global 1.8 at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Sarevok

Mar 31, 2004, 04:31 PM

That is a mistake I have found in TGW 1.5 ill try to fix it. BTW, can someone list requested changes for 1.6?

Mr Black

Mar 31, 2004, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Rocoteh

Download the new fast WWI - Global 1.8 at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1651098#post1651098

Off Topic, sorry.

Rocoteh,

You should just put the above quote in your 'sig line', then it will automatically appear at the end of all of your posts. You won't have to type it in ever again. :)

jimmygeo

Mar 31, 2004, 05:58 PM

Rocoteh,

I have just played 2 turns of TGW 1.5 as the Swiss in DEBUG mode. Here are some first impressions.

Load/configure time with an Athlon 1.2Ghz with 256 meg RAM, was 36 min. = SLOW
Time per turn: 1st. - 26 min.; 2nd - 27 min. = SLOW

I also agree with another play-tester, it's too easy for the Germans to cut across Netherlands to attack Antwerp.

The German navy seems much more powerful than it was historically. Almost all BBs and BCs start as veteran with +HP. Actually, the best contemporary navy in the world was the British, who start with no veteran units. I suspect pro-German prejudice. Also German infantry is slightly too powerful; the French stopped them cold at the Somme & held them for 3+ years before pushing them back with Brit., Canadian and US help. The early German success was due more to their callous and unsuspected disregard for the conventions of civilized nations by violating the neutrality of Belgium, NOT to their military superiority. German units should be closer in strength to the French and British.

MGs seem a bit too powerful. I watched as 6 or 7 units regularly were destroyed before knocking out an MG.

Finally, on the contra side, promotions appear too quick (reg. to elite in one turn!!) and the HP jump between reg., vet. and elite seems too great. A more realistic sequence would be reg. 4, vet. 5, elite 6, or similar.

Added note: Boy, is it ever boring to watch the AI (=Assinine Incompetence) play! I sat for quite a while watching the Russians loose about 30 units taking Krakow. And the Austrians trying to take Rumanian towns with cavalry!!

Oh yes, I was playing at Major Level.

Hope this helps. Thanks for all the work you obviously put into this scenario.

jimmygeo

_______________
Old gamers never die, they just loose all their HPs.

Rocoteh

Mar 31, 2004, 06:38 PM

jimmygeo,

Thank you for your comments.

I will note them and analyse them with regard to
the next version of TGW-DIV.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Mar 31, 2004, 09:19 PM

Thanks for the excellent report!

jimmygeo

Mar 31, 2004, 10:15 PM

Rocoteh,

When I said "pro-German prejudice" I DID NOT mean that YOU were prejudiced, but that the game balance was too favorable for the German player. I still think so.

To get the same results as in the real WWI, you would make the German units more on a par with French, but make sure that the Germans were allowed to move before anyone else. That way they could go smashing through Belgium and take a couple of French towns before they were stopped and the trench war really started.

As it is, often the French move first(!) when they and the Germans are controlled by the AI. They invade German territory forcing the Germans to go more on the defensive at the beginning. Not very historically accurate.

(BTW, re: your posts in the Unit Creation forum. I, too, had civilian relatives slaughtered by the Nazis in Czechoslovakia.)

jimmygeo

Klyden

Mar 31, 2004, 10:33 PM

Actually, the French launched an immediate attack into the Alsace-Lorrane area. These two provinces were lost to Germany during the 1870 war and France was eager to regain them. The German plan called for a holding action/slow retreat in this area while they went through Belgium.

As far as the German ships go, the German ships were better subdivided and generally tougher than their British counterparts. The Germans also had a clear edge at the begining of the war in that all their capital ships had director fire control while the British fleet was only partially equipped with it. The German fire control equipment was also in general, superior to that of the British.

When the major fleets did meet, the British outnumbered the German roughly 8-5. The Germans managed to inflict losses on the same exact scale (IE 8-5 in their favor). Given that, the Germans do deserve some inherent advantages on a ship for ship basis, which will be offset by the Royal Navy's superiority in numbers.

The Germans hold a clear quality advantage over the French when it comes to infantry, both in doctrine (especially at the beginning of the war) and in reliable machineguns. The British volunteer troops at the beginning of the war were probably the finest in the world on a unit for unit basis and they gave a good account of themselves, but there were roughly only 100,000 of them and considering that Germany invaded with over 1 million, you get the picture of what happen.

In general, the only sides to inflict greater casualties than recieved when attacking were the Germans and the British in most cases.

All this is not to say that the French soldier was not without merit. They were as brave and fought as hard as any one could, but there are other factors to consider.

Sarevok

Mar 31, 2004, 10:57 PM

so... should i decrease the German troop's stats to 13-11-1? and also should I for ballance remove france's ability to move on the first turn?

Rocoteh

Mar 31, 2004, 11:49 PM

jimmygeo,

Clarification: I am not pro or con any nation.
When I meet a person I meet an individual
not a person representing an nation.

The French Plan 17 called for an attack into
Alsace-Lorraine.(Elsass-Lothringen)

The plan DID expect an German attack into Belgium.
It did not however expect the power and number
of divisions in the offensive.

The French 5th Army would march to Namur
and stop the the Geman advance.

I have deployed The French Army as it was deployed
in reality.
The mistakes done by French High Command COULD
have resulted in 6 week victory for Germany.

Unit stats: I have spend a large amount of time the
last 40 years study them.

Units stats represent the combined effect of
many different factors.

The German infantry division was (with the the exception
of BEF) superior to the divisions of other nations.

I also regard stats in general for the scenario as
correct.

One should remember that stats ARE sensible.
Giving high stats to Waffen SS units have during
the years, now and then lead to that some people
have thought that the person setting the stats
must like Waffen SS!

Its hard for me to see the logic in that.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Rocoteh

Apr 01, 2004, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by Mr Black

Off Topic, sorry.

Rocoteh,

You should just put the above quote in your 'sig line', then it will automatically appear at the end of all of your posts. You won't have to type it in ever again. :)

Mr Black,

Thank you for the information.

In fact I never have had any sig line and will
never have it in the future.
The "download" and so on was a test.
I will now drop it, as it has no impact on downloads.

Anyway: Thank you.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Rocoteh

Apr 01, 2004, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by jimmygeo
Well, I played TGW 1.4 for several hours. It's a very detailled and accurate representation of WW1 and looks beautiful. BUT it's still so SLOW both configuring and playing!! It's more a job--a CAREER!--than a game. I got bored waiting for the AI to finish, went off to do something else, and then forgot what I was planning to do in the next turn. I'll stick to Marla_Singer's "July 1914" for WW1 gaming. Thanks, but no thanks.

jimmygeo,

I guess that you rate TGW-DIV 1.1 even worse than
you rated TGW 1.4.

Then its really good that you have (in your opinion)
the superior "July 1914" by Marla_Singer to play
instead.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Klyden

Apr 01, 2004, 08:25 AM

Honestly, from what I have seen on the stats, I think they are right and I also think France should be allowed to move as they will generally launch an attack on the southern portion of the line, which is realistic.

jimmygeo

Apr 01, 2004, 08:33 AM

Rocoteh

No, I do not find TGW-DIV worse as regards speed and certainly not in regard to units etc. It's better all round, but I've not done any serious play testing of it. I'll report when I do.

BTW, I forgot about the French Plan 17, sorry.

I think your work on TGW in its various forms is truly amazing and very good. Since you asked for comments from people who played them in order, I suppose, to make them even better, I gave my opinions and assessments for what they are worth (I HAVE been gaming and developing games for 30 yrs). What you do about them is your business; I've done my part.

I shall post comments on TGW-DIV when I've had more time to play it. Looks good so far.

Cheers,

jimmygeo

Adler17

Apr 01, 2004, 09:30 AM

The British and french fleet bombed during the waiting time Ypern. But that´s not all. The RN attacked my mines in the Skagerrak and destroyed all of them without one. With this unit I was able to sink the BC HAM New Zealand. There have to be minefields. Real minefields. The subs should also get a better attack value. I have big difficulties sinking majow warships with them. In reality they sank 20 BBs and endless other ships.
The French Army is attacking, but not very successful. I believe in a few turns France is beaten.
The Russian navy attacked my fleet in the baltic sinking 2 CL and 2 DD. But that was an error. My Baltic fleet of 1 BC, 6 predreadnoughts, 1 sub and 3 armoured cruiser will soon sink them. And so it happened. 2 Armoured cruiser, 1 light cruiser and 5 DD were sunk.
In the Channel one of my destroyers sunk a British DD.
The attacking French forces were destroyed by my own forces. But now since the Russians attack I have to wait. Stalemate! Im Westen nicht neues.
In the East the Russians are advancing. They do not have crossed the German border but they are too near to ignore them. So I used Hindenburg and Falkenhayns corps as well as armoured cars and cavalry. Also a few infantry units. So the Russians lost at the German border to Posen and Silesia the Brusilov corps as well as 15other divisions. Tannenberg!
In the next PC turn the Brits bomb Ypern as well as my minefield in the North sea- with little effect.
Their land units in France are a bit more successfull destroying 3 of my units.
This made the French able to destroy 3 other units and were very close to conquer Ypern. But their cavalry trying this died.
The Russians are now advancing with their cavalry. 10 of them are threatening Posen. Additional 7 other cossacks, 2 guerilla and 14 other divisions as well as Kerensky´s corps are near to me. The battle of Tannenberg will commence in this very turn.
Jeder Schuß ein Ruß´. (each shot a Rusky) ;)
As well as the battle of Helgoland will happen. As well the remaining British forces in the Baltic will have to be punished.
Jeder Tritt ein Brit.(Each step a Brit) ;)
And last but not least the invading French.
Jeder Stoß ein Franzos´. ;)

This is my battlereport of turn 3. Any comments?

Adler

Sarevok

Apr 01, 2004, 05:07 PM

Pretty interesting, thanks Adler :)

Rocoteh

Apr 02, 2004, 12:05 AM

Adler17,

Thank you for the very interesting battlereport.

I agree with you on the minefields, and will place
them in the next version.

I will also make submarines more lethal, avoiding
making them to lethal.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Apr 02, 2004, 12:22 AM

I am now pulling all suggestions for 1.6 BRI version for any changes, I expect a new version within days.

clibinarius

Apr 02, 2004, 12:58 AM

I don't think government switching should be enabled; I don't know if you can disable this in the editor; I would remove the governments from their techs so no one would have a government to go to after overthrowing;

I would also consider giving the Austrians and the Russians War Weariness to reflect weaknesses in both their empires, and wonders that expire to correct this ill at the beginning of the war.

Rocoteh

Apr 02, 2004, 01:04 AM

Comment on TGW-DIV:

Still no delivery of my new computer (paid in advance).
It will delay TGW 1.2
No target date.

Rocoteh

Adler17

Apr 02, 2004, 01:30 AM

clibinarius, in the real time the governments of Russia and (a bit) Germany switched. While the October revolution is very known, in Germany the government switched from a constitutional monarchy into a parlamentary one. Although only the status quo of the tiem after Bismarck was written into the constitution...

Adler

Adler17

Apr 02, 2004, 04:44 AM

Week 33 (Turn 4):
1. The Naval war:
Some British ships are in the Baltic, but the main part is in the North sea near Esbjerg. My Fleet is between Kiel and Copenhagen, able to strike on both sides inflicting as much damage as possible to the British fleet. Also a Russian predreadnought occured off Lithunia.The battles begin:
3 British destroyer and a light cruiser were destroyed at Arhus. Then the BCs HMS Lion and Princess Royal were sunk. I only lost a light cruiser. The Russian predreadnought is attack by one of mine. Although my predreadnought is severly damaged the Russian one got sunk.
Now to the North Sea. A Uboat sunk a British destroyer and then retreated to the safe minefields. After this the British main fleet of 17 dreadnoughts and 2 armoured cruiser is attacked by my Dreadnoughts and battlecruiser. The BC should also get an attack value of 30, since they had the same guns than BBs. Only the light armour made them vulnerable, especially British ships (look Jutland and Denmark strait (ww2)). And nearly a wonder happens: I only lost a uboat, while the British ships sunk like stones! The dreadnoughts HMS Ajax, Audacious, Bellerophon, Centurion, Collingwood, Hercules, Iron Duke, King George V, Monarch, Neptune, Orion, Siant Vincent, Superb, Temerire, Thunderer and Vanguard are all sunk. And a Armoured cruiser torpedoed by 2 uboats. One sunk and another damaged, but the loss of that ship is much more decisive than the loss of only one uboat. Although I have to admit I didn´t fought only there but fighting also at the eastern front with the Russian invaders. Nevertheless I thought I would loose at least 6 ships. But no. Even the BC SMS Seydlitz won without being damaged and promoted to Elite. Now only the HMS Marlborough is there and an armoured cruiser. Also there are some predreadnoughts, but there are no ships in range which could be able to sink them. Only a few CL and DD. So in the North sea I have to wait until my ships are repaired.
In the Channel one of my uboats was able to sink a British transport out od a convoy with a DD and the HMSDreadnought and a predreadnought. These troops will never arrive.
New reinforcements arrive. With these I shoul be able to beat the Russians without transferring new troops from the west.
In the west I could retake Calais and so the main part of the French fleet got lost! Also the invading troops were elimanted. I also tried to capture Verdun, but after being luchy and destroying one of the defending MG nests I stopped the offense. I had bombed Verdun with Zeppelins and artillery shhoting down a plane and destroying several modifications so I have to wait for the next turn. I also moved troops into position for attacking Besancon and the BEF. But now back to the east.
There I could destroy Kerensky´s corps as well as all invading forces. Also the troops on the Russian territory are attacked sucessfully with little losses. Of the 33 divisions the Russians lead into combat only 4 infantry and 4 cossacks remained. Additional 2 units were heavilied damaged.
Now a last try to sink this British armoured cruiser in the North sea. With a coastal uboat- no, I can´t believe it, my sub sunk the enemy!
But this should be enough for one turn. So much luck...
Hope the Entente troops do have as bad luck as Donald Duck now in their turn ;).
Their turn beigns.
The RN bombs Ypern, comme toujours. My defending unis are hit but nothing more happens.
The French are attacking, but although they are able to beat two of my units he lost two other.
The Russians are also attacking. Am I their only opponent? 8 cossacks and 29 Infantry divisions! Boy.
Now it is my turn.

Adler

Adler17

Apr 02, 2004, 06:39 AM

Week 34, Turn 5:
I bombed Verdun. Now I hope I´m able to take it. Finally. My siege artillery was able to weken the French in a way they couldn´t refuse my wishes ;).
So back to the East. 6 Cossacks beaten! One of my Elite flamethrower generates a general! Another corps! A small fighting at the sea off Helgoland, where the Seydlitz sinks a British predreadnought, also one of my AC can do that. So back to the East. The Czar didn´t learn from the previous turns and now tries to beat me with his masses of troops again. Tough fightings, although only small losses. But I can´t refresh my attacking units this time as I usually do. They have to fight. The Corps are very usefull now. without them I had much more problems. The Entente would be too strong. But the Russians loose 31 units. Now the Computer can attack.
PC turn:
British subs sink my last mine, a destroyer and a dreadnought sinks one of my AC.
The French can kill one of my Infantry units, but the counter attack to retake Verdun is doomed by my MG unit, which is promoted from regular to Elite, destroying 3 attacking units, but also being damaged heavily.
Then the Russians retreat from their old position to attack a bit more south. 19 infantry units.
And another turn begins.

Adler

Rocoteh

Apr 02, 2004, 06:47 AM

Adler17,

Your battlereports are very interesting to read.
Thank you.

Changes now implemented into TGW-DIV 1.2

1. Battlecruiser now attack 30

2. Dreadnought now defense 22

3. Minefields now prevent Royal Navy strikes into the Baltic.

4. French naval units in Calais moved westward.

5. Belgian and Netherland units added that will prevent
unrealistic French moves after Right to passage agreements.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Adler17

Apr 02, 2004, 08:49 AM

Week 35, turn 6:
In the west I bomb Besancon to take this city. And so the city falls with the loss of only one unit. And the BEF is now in a good attack position. My artillery is weken them. Now my infantry got them all for the loss of one unit. Also the Haig corps is in range, but I do not know now whether to attack or not. I do it. The Corps Rupprecht is able to destroy it. So I wait for my artillery to attack in the west. I´m advancing here much more than in the east, but this is also historical.
Now to the British/ Russian sub threat. Done 13 sunk. Thanks, spy!In the North sea the Marlbourough, which sunk my AC, was mined, and a predreadnought sunky by the Rheinland.
Now to the Russian invaders. It seems to be I´m their only target! So attack. Oh before I forget: No pollution. It would be contraproductive.
Another try: I attack a predreadnought with a sub and another with a DD. Both are victorious! Good luck.
Back to the East. There the attacking Russian units are destroyed. And for the very first time I set my feet on Russian territory near Lodz. But my cavalry will soon retreat. It is damaged and won´t survive another fight.
But now the PC turn:
The British troops: Ypern bombed. I should take London. But what do they do now? They invade the Netherlands. I have to fight them there.
The French can beat two of my units but nothing more. The Russians stopped the invasions. Only 6 infantry divisions and a cossack. How many units did they loose on the Prussian fields of honour? But now it is my turn.

Adler

Adler17

Apr 02, 2004, 09:17 AM

Week 36, turn 7 Part 1:
I bomb Chalons to take the town as well as Reims. My fleet will rebased to Antwerpen. The Seydlitz can sink the HMS Conqueror.
Chalons is taken.

I stop for now.

Adler

Klyden

Apr 02, 2004, 09:39 AM

Just as a note on offensive strength for battle cruisers..

While they did generally have the same size of guns as the contemporary dreadnaughts, they roughly had only 80 percent of the gun power. (Case in point, Iron Duke had 10 13.5 guns, while Tiger had 8. Same is true for German ships as well: Konig 10 12 inch guns, Lutzow had 8).

Given how the stats are set up to award offensive naval action in this scenario, it would be a mistake to make the BC attack rating the same as a dreadnaught as it would pretty much remove the reason to build dreadnaughts. The weaker defense really does not mean much from the standpoint of whoever attacks first generally wins. (As a side note and mentioned some time ago, I would like to see the attack and defense numbers closer together or naval battles will be pretty one sided and it goes to whoever can attack first).

*Edit* Good read on the turn reports Alder. It is fun to watch your progress.

Adler17

Apr 02, 2004, 10:11 AM

That depends on the design. The later ships like the QE or Bayern classes had also only 8 guns. And also only 8 guns were usually able to fight against the enemy on either BB or BC. So they had the smae attack value.

Adler

P.S.: Thanks for your comment.

Klyden

Apr 02, 2004, 04:39 PM

Again, using my examples in my previous posts, the BB turrets on those ships were all centerline, so all 10 could engage in a broadside vs 8 for the contemporary BC's.

Your point about the QE or Bayern classes are well taken, except that they had 15 inch guns. The equivalent German BC's planned at that time had 13.8 inch guns and the British equivalent would be the Repulse/Renown with 6 guns each. The Hood was laid down with the same gun power, but was more nearly a capital ship rather than a BC when completed. Hood's contemporary battleships (had they been completed) would have had either 16 or 18 inch guns, depending on what designs the British would have laid down.

Even if you go back to the earlier ships, the way the wing turrets were laid out on both German and British ships, it was very difficult (and in practice not done) to shoot "across the ship" because of various issues including blast damage to the ship itself.

Adler17

Apr 02, 2004, 11:07 PM

The British Renown and Repulse had less firepower I agree. And also I agree about the Hood being nearly a normal BB. Nevertheless the German BCs Seydlitz, Moltke and Goeben had all 10 guns. They were also in one line, but I don´t know exactly, if it was possible to fire with them a full broadside. Nevertheless Most German BBs could fire only with 8 main guns a broadside: Although the Nassau and Rheinland classes had 12 guns only 8 of them couls be used in a broadside. The Kaiser class had 10 guns, but only 8 were useable to fire on one target. The Bayern class had 8 main guns, 15". As exception the König class was able to fire with all 10 guns as well as the mentioned BCs. So they had the same firepower.

Adler

Rocoteh

Apr 02, 2004, 11:55 PM

Adler17,

Von Der Tann 8x11" Armor: 9.8"
Seydlitz,Moltke and Goeben 10x11" Armor: 10.6"-11.8"(Seydlitz)
Defflinger and Lutzow 8x12" Armor: 11.8"

All could fire a full broadside.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Apr 03, 2004, 12:47 AM

so... any suggestions?

Adler17

Apr 03, 2004, 12:54 AM

Not so many Russian MG gunners. I have now 93 of them! Since the Russians didn´t have enough rifles they should get only a few and then they would have to invent this technology.

Adler

Rocoteh

Apr 03, 2004, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by Adler17
Not so many Russian MG gunners. I have now 93 of them! Since the Russians didn´t have enough rifles they should get only a few and then they would have to invent this technology.

Adler

Adler17,

This refer to the main Brigade-level version?

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Adler17

Apr 03, 2004, 01:36 AM

Week 36, turn 7, part 2:
My spy in Russia tells me the Russians have 93 MG gunners. That´s way too much. The Russians couldn´t equip their troops with normal rifles, so why so much MGs. Russia should get 25 or so and then must invent MGs.
But back to the western front. After tough fightings but with minimal losses Reims falls. So Paris and Arras are in danger. I doubt the French can stop me in the battle of the Somme. I´m going to take Arras and then Paris in the next turns. Now to the British invaders. It was a hard fight with losses on both sides, but the British invasion force was destroyed. After this in the East the Russian troops were destroyed as well. This time only 6 infantry units. The uboat based in the channel sunk the British transport, The Goeben sunk a British sub in the Baltic, the last survivor of the British strike and my troops took the fortifications near Paris. À Paris.
Now it is the turn of the AI:
Britain: Bombing Ypern again. Nothing new. Oh a few British infantry divisions appear. But my forces will destroy them in the next turn.
France: The French try to retake Reims. 11: 1 for me :). And two other French advances. Nothing too serious.
The Russians are advancing near to the East Prussian border. I will punish them. But my offfensive in the east will wait until France is beaten. But 22 infantry units are a danger...
Now it is my turn.

Adler

Adler17

Apr 03, 2004, 01:40 AM

Rocoteh, the Russians have 97 MG gunner units.

Adler

Sarevok

Apr 03, 2004, 01:40 AM

Planned Changes

- German infantry changed to 13-11-1
- Machine gun costs increased by 25%
- Most likely removing ROP's
- Preventing the french from moving first turn.
- Preventing the Russians from moving first turn
- Increasing the power of the Tanks and Kaiserjagers
- Giving the Germans more techs at start for an advantage.
- French infantry changed to 10-11-1
- Adding Imperial Infantry and Indian Infantry to British
- Adding colonial Infantry to France
- Adding a custom "German" Government
- Adding some special Unit graphics
- Possible addition of German, French, Spanish, and Greek Flags
- Re-locating the French navy to the Mediterranean to prevent unrealistic naval sitiation in north sea.
- Possible addition of Naval Minefields
- Possible additional custom infantry units
- Civilopedia Icons added
- and MUCH MORE

This is a large-scale update, so expect it around April 6th or 7th.

Sarevok

Apr 03, 2004, 01:42 AM

I am also possibly planning several different MG units to represent different guns in the war and to make a different scene appear.

Adler17

Apr 03, 2004, 03:17 AM

Week 37 turn 8:
The Derfflinger isc able to sink the Queen Mary near the Doggerbank. But the war at the sea will wait. I will not take Paris this turn but Arras. Before: bombing. Then Arras is taken by two corps and cavalry. The British are destroyed by infantry and Zeppelins while the French troops got artillery fire and will now be attacked by infantry. Done.
At the sea one of my DD sinks a British CL damaged by Zeppelins, while another takes out a French sub. 6 British predreadnoughts are sunk by my fleet in the Channel as well as another French sub. Thanks spy!
Now to the Russians: I will take out their atacking units. Only little losses- on my side. The battle at the Masurian hills (where are the swamps and lakes?!?). Only 2 survivors of 22.
Now the enemy is on the turn.
Britain:Ypern bombed again, but this time several ships went to Hull.
The French make a small inavsion with three infantry units, while The Russians invade Silesia with 21 units. Well then I have to defend the European civilization in Silesia again against Asian hordes. ;)
Now it is my turn.

Adler

Adler17

Apr 03, 2004, 04:59 AM

Week 38, turn 9, TGV Div 1.1 part 1:
I bomb Paris to take it. Now the assault. The corps of Pétain and Nivelle were eradicated. But thy only consisted out of 1 cavalry. 3 corps and 7 infantry units are necessary to take finally Paris. And then Versailles!
In the channel a Uboat torpedoed a transport out of a convoy, another a destroyer. The Friedrich der Große sunk a British predreadnought as well as Nassau and Rheinland 2 armoured cruiser, the last ships of the convoy. Also 4 French subs were sunk.
In Silesia I attack the enemy forces with cavalry, armoured cars and infantry. In a few turns I will strike back and take Warsaw. But now the invaders. One of my Elite infatry divisions is promoted. A new corps is available. All enemys are destroyed.
Now the PC:
Britain: See the last turn.
France: The French try to retake Versailles, but they loose 3 units infantry.
Russia: 10 units on the East Prussian border.
Portgal sends two warships to attack and Italy some infantry and cavalry, but these troops are not in range.

My turn begins now. To be continued.

Adler

Rocoteh

Apr 03, 2004, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by Adler17
Rocoteh, the Russians have 97 MG gunner units.

Adler

Adler17,

Then AI regard it as a "best-buy" unit.

I will increase shield-cost to version 1.2 to
change that.

Also, thank you for the most interesting playtest-report
on TGW-DIV and TGW so far.

I am looking forward to follow what happens in
future turns.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Sarevok

Apr 03, 2004, 05:33 PM

Rocoteh, do you have suggestions for additions to the main game?

Rocoteh

Apr 03, 2004, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by Sarevok
Rocoteh, do you have suggestions for additions to the main game?

This addition which I just have implemented into TGW-DIV 1.2:

Austria-Hungary town Bozen added (Mountain tile changed
to Hill tile) so that Germany and Italy no longer have
a common border.

A fortress-chain in Tirol manned by "Tirol fortress units":
Attack 1 Defense 13, immobile, requires no support,
can not be built.
Thank you to Adler17 for the idea.

More railroads in Turkey.
Thank you to Metacomet for the idea.

Changed submarine stats. Will return to that later.

Ironclad that now represent Pre-Drednought replaced
with one of the 2 units suggested by Adler17.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

sween32

Apr 03, 2004, 11:56 PM

I'm downloading this right now. Looks really good.

Adler17

Apr 04, 2004, 01:42 AM

Week 39, Turn 10:
My troops in the west are advancing. I will try to take Amiens. First the usual artillery bombing. Then infantry assaults. Because of the bombing Amiens is taken without any casualities. The next town is Caen. Again Bimbing. Then the Moltke corps and an Infantry unit, and also Caen is "liberated". Perhaps I´ve enough forces to take the new French capital, Orléans. Yes two corps and a Elite cavalry can take Orléans! Now also Tours and Poitiers are in range. The attack on Tours. My new corps Lettow- Vorbeck (I know he fought in Africa) is able to take out the MG gunner. My infantry has no more problems to take out the garrison defenders. Now Poitiers and Nantes. In west this turn is a Blitzkrieg. If I can take also Poitiers and Nantes, France is devided: In the North Brest and Cherbourg and then the souther cities. I never thought it was possible to advance so fast. Poitiers is captured as well as Nantes. France is devided. Within the next 10 turns I will have occcupied France completely. Only Corsica and the colonies in Africa are out of range for now. Before I will take defense position against the French as well as advancing against Cherbourg and Bordeaux, I will have a look on the other areas.
Off Jutland a Russian DD is torpedoed by a Uboat. I the Channel my fleet can sink the Portuguese armoured cruiser and destroyer. In the Baltic a Russian armoured cruiser is torpedoed by a Uboat.
The Russians are advancing again towards my border, so I have to attack them near Königsberg. 12 units destroyed, one of them with a Zeppelin.
Now troops are in position to attack Bordeaux and Cherbourg. But it is the turn of the AI:
Britain: Bombing of Ypern. This is a bit boring, since I can´t catch their ships, but I have an idea.
The French a small attack. But they are not a big danger any more. Only Froglegs. ;)
The Spaghettis ;) are a bigger danger. But only 5 Cavalry and 2 infantry units in range shouldn´t be that problem.
The Russians on the other hand are a bigger problem. 29 units are invading Silesia. They get way too many units. Although they made these mass attacks, they should get less units extra or only after a longer time.
But is is now over to me.

Adler

Sarevok

Apr 04, 2004, 03:58 AM

I expect 1.6 on the 6th or 7th.

Adler17

Apr 04, 2004, 03:59 AM

Week 41, Turn 11:
This time I attack the invading Russians first. Long, but not tough fightings- for me ;). In the very next turns I have to attack in the East takink Warsaw and Lodz. But with little losses I could destroy 30 enemy divisions.
But now in the west: The Italians are beaten and loose 5 Cavalry and 2 Infantry divisions. 5 further divisions are near, but not a danger for now. Also the 5 French infantry divisions at the new border are no problem for now and can be ignored- for now. Then the attacks on Cherbourg and Bordeaux. First artillery bombing. Then infantry attacks, when the strong defending units are weak enough. So Cherbourg falls like Bordeaux, the third enemy capital within three turns! Now I stop and my soldiers will take a better position for the next turn, when I will attack in the east, while my advance in the west will be a bit slowlier.
At the sea I retreated my damaged fleet from Ypern to Antwerpen, where she will be repaired. After this i will retreat them a bit and let the British bomb Antwerpen. Then when she retreats, I think I can catch them. Off Cherbourg my destroyer spotted 5 French submarines and a British armoured cruiser. My DDs sink a sub and the cruiser. Artillery can damage the other submarines.
Finally my troops are in position to attack Bayonne and are advancing on Brest. Many other units are repairein as well as nearly all corps.
Now the PC has the turn:
A Portuguese sub sinks a destroyer but the British fleet now leaves London. My plan to catch them is gone.
The French retreat their damaged subs and make a small attack but loose.
The Russians advance in Silesia again. 52 divisions! 52! That´s really too much!
But now it is my turn.

Adler

Rocoteh

Apr 04, 2004, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by donkeyB
I'm downloading this right now. Looks really good.

donkeyB,

That is good to hear.

I hope we will hear from you in the future.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Rocoteh

Apr 04, 2004, 04:30 AM

Adler17,

Your playtest-reports are as always of high value.
Thank you.

Do you have any info on the size of the Russian army?

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Adler17

Apr 04, 2004, 04:44 AM

My spy tells me:
64 worker
1 predreadnought
2 subs
3 DD
21 Guerilla
7 armoured cruiser
9 light artillery
130 MG gunners (way too much)
1 CL
3 combat engineers
6 recce planes
31 A infantry divisions
82 Reserve divisions (whenever I destroy more, they get reinforcemnts ~ 40- 50 units- too much.)
3 Imperial guards.
In this moment, when I stoppe playing.

Adler

Adler17

Apr 04, 2004, 04:45 AM

Week 42, Turn 12, Part 1:
Although 52 Russian divisions are in Silesia I attack Warsaw with cavalry and my corps. The Corps Moltke finally can take Warsaw. No casualites.
Off Brest the Protuguese sub, that sunk my DD last turn was sunk by my other DD.
In the west Bayonne is taken after artillery fire. But there are also 5 Portuguese infantry divisions. I will let them not forget the error declaring war on Germany! I bomb them with artillery and then I will take them with infantry. Done.
But now to the Russians: There will be long and bloody fightings, especially for the Russians. But this tactic is nearly exactly the same, if the war was fought with the plans. Germany beats France and stopps the Russians before they are strong enough. The British make a blockade near the coast and are beaten by the German fleet. Oh befor I will forget: Artillery and bomber as well as Zeppeline should get lethal sea. A damaged warship should be able to be sunk by land artillery.
But if I can destroy these units the main part of the Russian forces will be destroyed.
I destroyed 14 divisions, but I stop now. To be continued.

Adler