This thread is for the Governors to communicate with each other and for others to be able to address all Governors at once.

Members of the Senate

Speaker: TerminalMan90
Berry: Plexus
Province 2: Donovan Zoi
At-Large: Will_518

Vote History

Term 2:

Vote #5A: SSSP5-775BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1595277#post1595277)
Vote #4A: SSSP4-1025BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1591591#post1591591) PASSED:2-0-0
Vote #3A: SSSP3-1300BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1580887#post1580887) PASSED:2-0-0
Vote #2A: SSSP2-1400BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1577336#post1577336) PASSED:1-0-0
Vote #1A: SSSP1-1400BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1577329#post1577329) PASSED:2-0-0

Term 1:

Vote #6A: SCRP2-2150BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1547891#post1547891) PASSED:2-0-0
Vote #5B: SSSP5-2150BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1536516#post1536516) PASSED:2-0-0
Vote #5A: SSSP4-2150BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1536516#post1536516) PASSED:2-0-0 (superceded by SSSP5)
Vote #4A: SSSP3-2450BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1534645#post1534645) PASSED:1-0-0
Vote #3A: SSSP2-2850BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1524559#post1524559) PASSED:2-0-0
Vote #2A: SCRP1-2850BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1524231#post1524231) PASSED:2-0-0
Vote #1A: SSSP1-3000BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1516433#post1516433) PASSED:1-0-0

TerminalMan90 enters the room. The busy buzz of the senate quickly falters and dies to a hushed murmer.

The Herald says "All rise" and the room hurries to their feet.

A page scurries out of the path of the noble dignitary, papers fluttering from her cluches like startled pidgeons.

"I call the Senate to order, gentlemen. Lets get to work."

20:45 hrs. until the TC commences. Discussions about slider and cash allocations anyone?

[edit] Here is more detail from last save for discussion:

Babs will sell Mysticism for ~207 gp
Russia will sell Wheel for 239 gp + 1 gpt

Hurrying is not a cash allocation issue at this time.

Slider is current 90/0/10 % (S/L/T), Writing in 3 turns.
Net tax +1 gpt

Slider could currently be moved to 80/0/20 without losing a
turn on Writing and net tax becomes +4 gpt

Actually, the turnchat happened three hours ago, TMan. The Senate dropped the ball again.

Admittedly, the Feb 4 thing threw me off, but that is not a valid excuse. I will be looking at the save soon to assess our options in regards to the slider.

Anything else we need to discuss?

FYI we ran a couple of turns at minimum on Currency. It is not too late to salvage a max science run if that's what you want to do. It came up something like 38 turns at 90%, but a couple more cities will be built the next 10-15 turns and then it will go way down.

Gah!!!

I wasn't officially appointed VP until 6:24 MST (~25 min before the TC)

I'll have to translate the times more carefully in the future.

So.... Well try this again.

Slider is currently at 10/0/90 % (S/L/T) researching Currency in 36 turns with only alternative of 32 turns at 90% Sci.
We have 312 gp and a net of +17 gpt

Do senate members have to atend the turn chats? 'cos i can't get to half of them, i'm in UK, so GMT 2:00 am is not a good time for me.

If there is any votes please post in the thread, 'cos like i said i can't really get to many tcs.

Oh, we got a bit too much money in the treasury, i wouldn't mind spending it on something worthwhile, such as rushing some workers, or something else.

Originally posted by Will_518
[1] Do senate members have to atend the turn chats?...

[2] If there is any votes please post in the thread,...

[3] Oh, we got a bit too much money in the treasury, i wouldn't mind spending it on something worthwhile, such as rushing some workers...

1. No, you don't have to be present at the TC. As a member at large, you are well down the CoC anyway. If you like to attend, that is great.

2. Votes will be in this thread. Discussion will also be in this thread. The VP or the Governor will post the vote and you will be expected to cast your vote before the TC starts. Please allow sufficient time for me to legally post to the instruction thread.

3) Since Zorven is a Dictator, we cannot rush workers yet. Cash will probably be used by the trade department to sweeten tech deals. In Term 1 we *did* us cash to purchase a worker from the Babs.

Please remember that Senate instructions must be posted one hour before the next turn chat AND your slider and cash rush polls must last at least 24 hours. Thus, you had better start the polls at least 25 hours before the turn chat to be able to post legal instructions.

Thank you.

edit: This means your poll(s) should start earlier than 13:00 (1 PM) CST on Friday.

Originally posted by Will_518
Do senate members have to atend the turn chats? 'cos i can't get to half of them, i'm in UK, so GMT 2:00 am is not a good time for me.


If I remember correctly, about half the chats are at about 02:00 GMT and the other half are at 20:00 GMT. I hope you can make the 20:00 chats.

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #1:

A science slider setting of 10 % with our current set of cities and their respective populations gives us Currency in 36 turns. Also at the current rate, it would require a science rate of 90 % to achieve a better rate of 32 turns.

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Slider Setting Proposal 1 (circa 1400BC)

The DP should set the slider to 10% Science, 0% Luxury for the upcoming (1400 BC) chat. If the addition of cities or population enables us to reduce the number of turns by 5+ turns without putting the treasury in a deficit position greater than 10 gp per turn the slider value should be changed accordingly. No luxury slider value is supported at this time.

NOTE:
As no request for cash have been posted at this time, this proposal does not include and cash allocations what-so-ever. Discussions of cash allocations, if posted in a timely manner will be addressed in another proposal.

Thanks for clarifying these things. Hopefully I will be able to attend some 8pm tcs, but since it's not really that important, i am rather busy with a bit of school work...

As for the vote: YES.

Repost: SSSPX - Standing instruction - The slider may be changed during the trunchat if the current tech can be researched in the same amount of time as leaving the slider where it is.

I believe the standing instruction posted by Noldodan will need to be passed by the current Senate and posted in each Turn Chat Instruction Thread for me to be able to follow it.

zorven: you seem to get what I asked for some time ago. lucky you.

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #1:

A science slider setting of 10 % with our current set of cities and their respective populations gives us Currency in 36 turns. Also at the current rate, it would require a science rate of 90 % to achieve a better rate of 32 turns.

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Slider Setting Proposal 1 (circa 1400BC)

The DP should set the slider to 10% Science, 0% Luxury for the upcoming (1400 BC) chat. If the addition of cities or population enables us to reduce the number of turns by 5+ turns without putting the treasury in a deficit position greater than 10 gp per turn the slider value should be changed accordingly. No luxury slider value is supported at this time.

Vote = YES


Repost: SSSPX - Standing instruction - The slider may be changed during the trunchat if the current tech can be researched in the same amount of time as leaving the slider where it is.

Vote = YES

My apologies for the absence. I am currently in transition between old and new computers, and cannot access the save for this set of turns. I hope to be more prepared for the next turnchat.

SENATORIAL VOTE #1A

SENATORIAL SLIDER SETTINGS PROPOSAL 1:

- The DP should set the slider to 10% Science, 0% Luxury for the upcoming (1400 BC) chat. If the addition of cities or population enables us to reduce the number of turns by 5+ turns without putting the treasury in a deficit position greater than 10 gp per turn the slider value should be changed accordingly. No luxury slider value is supported at this time.

YEA(2): Donovan_Zoi, Will_518
NAY(0):
ABSTAIN(0):

Edit: Attributed Donovans vote to Plexis by mistake. And to change numbering from #1 to 1A to be in line with Plexis' results index.

SENATORIAL VOTE #2A

SENATORIAL SLIDER SETTINGS PROPOSAL 2:

Standing instruction - The slider may be changed during the trunchat if the current tech can be researched in the same amount of time as leaving the slider where it is

YEA(1): Donovan_Zoi
NAY(0):
ABSTAIN(0):

Note: I don't like the wording of this as it is. But since Plexus voted for it I won't change it until the senate meets for the next vote

Edit: attributed Donovan_Zoi's vote to Plexus by mistake. And to change numbering from #1 to #2A to match Plexus' index.

We have slider instruction action!

I have posted the ratified instructions to the proper place (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1577348#post1577348)

I am going out on a limb here and breaking ground for the Senate:

Turn Chat Results!

[14:24] <Chieftess> It's not that hard to change the lux slider...
...
[14:25] <Chieftess> I mean, can't the senate atleast say, "Leave a 10gpt maximum to control happiness"?
...
[14:28] <Will> Why is cheiftess demanding money for happiness? is one of the cities in roit?
[14:28] <RikMeleet> Chieftess works in mysteruous ways.
[14:28] <Will> I C
[14:29] <Sarevok> hmm... we need more troops in our kingdom
[14:29] <Will> pop rushing it isn't the way to do it though
[14:29] <RikMeleet> yes we do
[14:29] <zorven> units moved....
[14:30] <zorven> FYI, pop rushing a war in Vandelay would cost 1 life
[14:30] *** Chieftess remembers the poprushing debates in DG1...
[14:31] <RikMeleet> In a private-game I'd rush it.
[14:31] <zorven> if a barb has a choice of attacking a unit or pillaging a city, does it always choose the city?
[14:31] <Furiey> CT - worse than using the slider for happiness?
[14:31] <Chieftess> BTW, even if you DO pop rush, units attack before unit production.
[14:31] <Chieftess> atleast AI units
[14:31] <Chieftess> since it's the AI's turn.
[14:31] <zorven> so it would be pointless for the current barb
[14:32] <Chieftess> Only when it's our turn, does the unit get popped.

The exerpts above lead me to consider two things.

1. Lux flexibility could easily be added to the slider instructions. It will never take more than a 10% bump to improve the mood of the citizens (well, with a Despot, anyway). I think this should be added to our next proposal.

2. Who IS responsible for deciding on whether to use a pop rush or not. It certainly doesn't involve any cash allocation. It DOES cost population though. Is this in the rules anywhere?

Also:
[14:32] <zorven> per senate instructions, moving science slider to 90 to get currency in 30 instead of 35 with +1 gpt
[14:33] <zorven> I mean 100% for currency in 29, 0 gpt

It looks like the Senate instruction was flexible enough to allow the DP to do the right thing.

I say the senate should allow a +-10% flexibilty in it's instructions regarding the slider, so in emergencies (e.g. cash deficit causing improvements to be sold; paying tribute causing tech to slow down...) the DP can respond without problems.

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #2:

Slider settings are currently 100/0/0 % (S/L/T). We are researching Currancy which is due in 24 turns. We are adding 0 gpt at this setting. The treasury is currently at 386 gp and the only requests on the horizon (poll being posted at the time of this writing) is purchasing embassies in our neighbors capitals. Therefore, science investment is the most pressing matter at this time and scientific support should continue

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Slider Setting Proposal 3 (circa 1300BC)

The DP should set the slider to the minimum percentage that delivers Currency at the earliest possible turn. The Senate supports a setting of 10% Luxury if it is absolutely necessary to maintain happiness in one or more of the nation's cities. The Senate also requires an increase in the taxation allocation to keep net income above -15 gpt

Senators, please cast your votes on this proposal.

SSSP3: YEA

Originally posted by TerminalMan90


PROPOSAL: Senetorial Slider Setting Proposal 3 (circa 1300BC)

The DP should set the slider to the minimum percentage that delivers Currency at the earliest possible turn. The Senate supports a setting of 10% Luxury if it is absolutely necessary to maintain happiness in one or more of the nation's cities. The Senate also requires an increase in the taxation allocation to keep net income above -15 gpt

Senators, please cast your votes on this proposal.

Vote = YES

I hearby declare SSSP3 passed by Senate majority 2-0-0.

Originally posted by TerminalMan90

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Slider Setting Proposal 3 (circa 1300BC)

The DP should set the slider to the minimum percentage that delivers Currency at the earliest possible turn. The Senate supports a setting of 10% Luxury if it is absolutely necessary to maintain happiness in one or more of the nation's cities. The Senate also requires an increase in the taxation allocation to keep net income above -15 gpt

Senators, please cast your votes on this proposal. [/B]

Could you please clarify the statement:

The Senate also requires an increase in the taxation allocation to keep net income above -15 gpt.

When does this apply? And do you mean that income should never be below -15 gpt?

Well I can tell you what I meant when I wrote it. As to what the others in the senate voted on, I can't speak to that :D

In essense, it means to me that:

The net income of fanatica should not be allowed to fall below -15 gpt (i.e. more than 15 gp lost per turn).

Is that more clear? Other Senate members, do you agree with this translation?

Ok, that's what I thought you meant, but I wasn't sure.

Furiey has posted a little chart (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1589351#post1589351) of slider setting outcomes for the year 1025 BC that Senators should look at when considering the next proposal/vote.


I will post a proposal (unless Plexus beats me to it) soon.

[edit] removed incorrect lament about current gp level which was secretly (!) corrected when my back was turned.

I have now added to the bottom of the chart in question: We currently have 230 gold (We will have 241 if the peace renegotiation goes through successfully)

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #4A:

Slider settings are currently 90/0/0 % (S/L/T). We are researching Currancy which is due in 10 turns. We are losing 0 gpt at this setting. The treasury is currently at 230 gp and we anticipate a level of 241 if our peace negotiations go through (according to Furiey; see link in previous post). The minimal treasury cost for 90% science and 10% luxury is acceptable. This proposal adjusts the net income threshold to reflect the leaner cash on hand.

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Slider Setting Proposal 4 (circa 1025 BC)

The DP should set the science slider to the minimum percentage that delivers Currency at the earliest possible turn. The Senate supports a setting of 10% Luxury if it is absolutely necessary to maintain happiness in one or more of the nation's cities. The net income of fanatica should not be allowed to fall below -12 gpt (i.e. more than 12 gp lost per turn).

The next Tech to research will likely be expensive. If the number of turns is 40, dial science back to 10%. Otherwise apply the instructions above.

Senators, please cast your votes on this proposal.

Vote: YEA.

Yes

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #4A:

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Slider Setting Proposal 4 (circa 1025 BC)

The DP should set the science slider to the minimum percentage that delivers Currency at the earliest possible turn. The Senate supports a setting of 10% Luxury if it is absolutely necessary to maintain happiness in one or more of the nation's cities. The net income of fanatica should not be allowed to fall below -12 gpt (i.e. more than 12 gp lost per turn).

The next Tech to research will likely be expensive. If the number of turns is 40, dial science back to 10%. Otherwise apply the instructions above.

YEA(2): Plexus, Will_518
NAY(0):
ABSTAIN(0):

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #5A:

Slider settings are currently 100/0/0 % (S/L/T). We are researching Literature which is due in 12 turns. This Tech research has not been ratified with a poll, but was the runner up in the last poll and Oct X says it will be polled before the next chat. The intent behind the quick research of Literature is to obtain the Great Library first. We are losing 1 gpt at this setting. The treasury is currently at 249 gp. The minimal treasury cost for 90% science and 10% luxury is acceptable. This proposal adjusts the net income threshold to reflect the leaner cash on hand.

There is also a German Embassy under discussion.

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Slider Setting Proposal 5 (circa 775 BC)

The DP should set the science slider to the minimum percentage that delivers Literature at the earliest possible turn. The Senate supports a setting of 10% Luxury if it is absolutely necessary to maintain happiness in one or more of the nation's cities. The net income of fanatica should not be allowed to fall below -12 gpt (i.e. more than 12 gp lost per turn).

Senators, please cast your votes on this proposal.

The provincial borders have been set by the people, and a new province is born. Senior Senator-at-large Donovan Zoi will become the governor of as-yet unnamed province 2.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/DG4Prov2a.jpg

Congrats, Governor DZ!. Welcome aboard. Nice that you have Vandelay in your Province, Huh? I can't wait to see what you name your Province.

SSSP5: YEA

I would like to request 53 gold in the event that the German embassy poll passes.

SSSP5: YES

And thank you, Cyc, for your kudos and for alerting me of the news. I shall be opening a new Provincial thread later this evening. Stay tuned. :)

I will also submit a vote of YES to any German Embassy request for 53 gold.

@ Boots:

I'll post a Senate vote, but it may not be legally binding because there isn't sufficient time for the Senate to properly vote on this issue before the next TC. :( The instruction may have to be included in the next TC.

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #5A:

Senetorial Slider Setting Proposal 5 (circa 775 BC)

The DP should set the science slider to the minimum percentage that delivers Literature at the earliest possible turn. The Senate supports a setting of 10% Luxury if it is absolutely necessary to maintain happiness in one or more of the nation's cities. The net income of fanatica should not be allowed to fall below -12 gpt (i.e. more than 12 gp lost per turn).

YEA(2): Plexus, Donovan Zoi
NAY(0):
ABSTAIN(0):


Edit: remove 'Proposal' to distinguish result from proposal.

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #5B:

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Cash Requisition Request 1 (circa 775 BC)

German Embassy will require funding if the vote before the Congress passes. Do you support the expenditure of 53 gp for the construction of an Embassy in Germany?

Senators, please cast your votes on this proposal.

Current Votes:

YEA(1): Donovan Zoi
NAY(0):
ABSTAIN(0):

Yes

I can only assume that Will_518 was posting a 'yes' vote for the SCRR5B vote.

Senators, in the future, please avoid the use of one word votes; state the proposal identifier when you cast your vote.

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #5B:

Senetorial Cash Requisition Request 1 PASSES (circa 775 BC)

German Embassy will require funding if the vote before the Congress passes. Do you support the expenditure of 53 gp for the construction of an Embassy in Germany?

YEA(2): Donovan Zoi, Will_518
NAY(0):
ABSTAIN(0):

I wish to preemptively request an amount of gold not to excede the amount of 216g for the purpose of purchasing CoL. This is only a preemptive request - the amount will likely be smaller, pending further discussion. See this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79003) for further details.

~Minister Octavian X

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #6A:

The poll in question for this proposal has not closed. Currently Deal #9 is leading and requires a cash request of 91 gp. Please see the link below for poll results or Octavian X's discussion link above.

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Cash Requisition Request 1 (circa 550 BC)

Persuant to the poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1602295#post1602295) for upcoming trades, a request for an amount of gold not to excede the amount of 216g for the purpose of purchasing CoL has been made.

Senators, please cast your votes on this proposal.

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #6A:

Slider settings are currently 100/0/0 % (S/L/T). We are researching Construction which is due in 22 turns. We are in a deficit postion of -2 gpt. The treasury is currently at 267 gp and the only requests on the horizon (poll being posted at the time of this writing) is a trade deal that may cost 91 to 216 gp.

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Slider Setting Proposal 6 (circa 550 BC)

The DP should set the slider to the minimum percentage that delivers Currency at the earliest possible turn. The Senate supports a setting of 10% Luxury if it is absolutely necessary to maintain happiness in one or more of the nation's cities. The Senate also requires an increase in the taxation allocation to keep net income above -15 gpt

Senators, please cast your votes on this proposal.

I am a little distressed that nearly 24 hours have passed and there are no votes for the two proposals before the senate.

My computer is sick and I may not be able to collect the votes and post to the instruction thread by 7:30 pm CST.

I therefore would like to appoint the Senior Senator to collection of the vote results and direct them to post the instructions that have passed to the TC instruction thread.

Also post a link to this directive post.

As there has been no response to the last senate vote, I will push it forward to the current chat, and break the tie vote (0 for 0 against) and post this vote as an instruction for the next chat. I will wait 12 hrs for any post to the contrary.

Senators,

I am now approacing to convince you to allocate some of our gold to upgrading a few of our warriors (5, mabye 10 of them for now). The Ministry of Defense and the citizenry is getting increasingly worried that Babylon may launch a sneak-attack soon, and I want to make sure that our armed forces can meet the challenge.

- Sarevok

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #7A:

Slider settings are currently 100/0/0 % (S/L/T). We are researching Republic which is due in 16 turns. We are in a deficit postion of -3 gpt. The treasury is currently at 314 gp.

There has been a discussion about upgrading 4 to as many as 10 warriors to swordsmen at a cost of 30gp each. Thus 120 gp would purchase 4 upgrades and 10 upgrades would cost 300 gp

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Slider Setting Proposal 7A (circa 250 BC)

The DP should set the slider to the minimum percentage that delivers the Republic at the earliest possible turn. The Senate supports a setting of 10% Luxury if it is absolutely necessary to maintain happiness in one or more of the nation's cities. The Senate also requires an increase in the taxation allocation to keep net income above -15 gpt

Senators, please cast your votes on this proposal. Cash requisition will be in the next post.
This vote will be open for 24 hrs.

edit: formating

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #7B:

The poll in question for this proposal has not closed. Currently Deal #9 is leading and requires a cash request of 91 gp. Please see the link below for poll results or Octavian X's discussion link above.

PROPOSAL: Senetorial Cash Requisition Request 7B (circa 250 BC)

A request for an amount of gold not to excede the amount of 300g for the purpose of upgrading warriors to swordsmen to protect our nation and make us strong compared to the Babylonians has been made by the Right Honerable Minister for Defense.

Senators, please cast your votes on this proposal.

This poll will be open for 24 hrs

Originally posted by TerminalMan90
This poll will be open for 24 hrs

Or until the next turn chat, whichever comes first :D

Next turn chat in about 20 hours

Darn it! Stupid GMT times! I was SURE is checked this and it said Sunday 29 8:30. I checked it twice!

I doubt it will make a difference though, nobody is interested in making a vote on this anyway. Just me and my silly little template that doesn't change from TC to TC. Why do I even bother.

I bet I could break the law and nobody would even CC me on it. I guess I HAVE broken the law in a way. Because I posted my proposal 5 hrs late, I can't put up a valid instruction.

TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #7A: (RESULTS)

This standing instruction for slider setting has been posted several times. It must be getting pretty boring, because none of the Governors or at large Governors seem to want to vote on it anymore. I therefore feel it is my duty to PASS this proposal as VP of the Senate.

The DP should set the slider to the minimum percentage that delivers the Republic at the earliest possible turn. The Senate supports a setting of 10% Luxury if it is absolutely necessary to maintain happiness in one or more of the nation's cities. The Senate also requires an increase in the taxation allocation to keep net income above -15 gpt

YEA(0):
NAY(0):
ABSTAIN(0):
Tie breaking vote by VP (1): TerminalMan90


TERM2 - SENATORIAL VOTE #7B: (RESULTS)

Senetorial Cash Requisition Request 7 PASSES (circa 250 BC)
with a controvercial tie breaking vote by VP TerminalMan90 (as nobody else seems to think this issue is important enough to vote on).

A request for an amount of gold not to excede the amount of 300g for the purpose of upgrading warriors to swordsmen to protect our nation and make us strong compared to the Babylonians has been made by the Right Honerable Minister for Defence.

YEA(0):
NAY(0):
ABSTAIN(0):
Tie breaking vote by VP (1): TerminalMan90