Rhye, email or ICQ me the new Biq and pedia data ASAP and I'll get to a new test game as Spain or possibly France or England, ehich I haven't palyed before but would like to.
Would you rather than I play one of those or should I stick to Spain which I have past experience to compare with?

3001st POST! WOOHOO

Playing a game as england, very slowly. surgery went well yesterdat!

Despotism
Oligarchic Republic
Theocratic Monarchy
Feudal Monarchy
Absolute Monarchy
Constitutional Monarchy
Democratic Republic
Fascism
Communism

I agree that socialist democracy should be added in.

Absolute monarchy was an enlightenment thing; the roman emperors were dictators.

an empire is any aggressively expanding state, so a government called empire makes no sense. While we do need some kind of imperial style government, something a little classier is needed for a name ;p

keep the communal thing for the communists, otherwise no one will ever use it. Social Democracy needs to be added in there, as so many 1st world countries today are socialist.

hand in agony right now from too mych typing so tjats all ur gonna see for a whi;e,

and then AEGIS cuisers would be American UU replacing the modern destroyers, right?
This means that they must have everything the destroyer has plus something more.Yeah, I would agree with that. The AEGIS system was developed to protect Aircraft Carrier battle groups from all kinds of missile threat and air attack. So the AEGIS cruiser should have a very high anti air defence and take any hits from "cruise missiles".

I don't agree with the social democracy thing - it is basically a movement, a political party.
Then, if they're winning in most of the post-communist states, that's another matter. But that countries have democratic republics now.
Putting a "social democratic republic" in would mean adding "federal republic" and many other insignificant varations.

On the empire, at first I tought of adding it, but it is basically a different name for large monarchies. Apart from the fact that an empire is spreaded through large territories and have a lot of conquered territories, there is no difference with monarchy.
Just think: the Queen of England was at the same time the ruler of the British Empire.

About the roman empire thing, it could be both a despotism or a theocracy. After all, the Roman emperor was a "pontefix maximus" (I don't know the english word, please tell me) at the same time.

Yeah, I would agree with that. The AEGIS system was developed to protect Aircraft Carrier battle groups from all kinds of missile threat and air attack. So the AEGIS cruiser should have a very high anti air defence and take any hits from "cruise missiles".


I turn this question to everybody:

what do you want as American UU:

A) A-bomb (which replaces the tactical missile?)
B) AEGIS Cruiser (which will replace a Modern Destroyer)

Pontifex Maximus means highest priest basically.

I am still pushing for an American marine unit b/c a naval and an air UU will leave the comp w/o anything.

A Marine UU. Call it the U.S. Marine Corps or something. It would definitely fit better than the AEGIS Cruiser or A-Bomb, and it would be more useful, especially in America's case, seeing as it is isolated from the other major powers. Isn't the idea to make America a powerful nation, as opposed to hamstringing them with bad UU's?



Edit: Heh, my 256th post. What a nice number.

Actually Rhye, in its early days Israel was highly socialistic. There are still many remains of this era, like the Electric Company and the Phone Company which are both monopolies that either used to belong to the gov't or still do. I'm sure we're not the only country to have this kind of thing.
But I don't really know how it would differ from a Democratic Republic.
Btw, I'm still waiting for the fixed files, Rhye. I won't be able to play much today if it all, but I will tomorrow at least a bit (starting on German classes again, new semester... But I will have time as this is not an intensive course.)

A marine UU...there's no proper name and there's no proper animation available. And every country has marines.

An UU should be chosen on history and real facts - then I can make it more or less strong. It is a very late unit, so not much helpful, in any case.

for blasphemous and any other who want the last update 0.386 (little has changed since 0.382): replace the "2" with a "6" inside the link I sent you last time.

A marine UU...there's no proper name and there's no proper animation available. And every country has marines.

An UU should be chosen on history and real facts - then I can make it more or less strong. It is a very late unit, so not much helpful, in any case.
Errr... Rhye, America has no better time to use a UU than the modern age. A good Marine UU would be hellishly useful to Lincoln. I don't know about a name, but I would guess they should have a boost to attack, a tiny boost to defense, and possible Airdrop capability (replacing Modern Paratroops as well as Marines. Don't know how realistic that is.)

blasphemous, have you downloaded the updated version?

blasphemous, have you downloaded the updated version?
No, cause I won't play it before I get back from school tomorrow anyway. I'll d/l it and play it ASAP tomorrow tho. I should manage to get in an hour or three before I have to head off. Enough to see if the ancient age is changed much since 0.382.

I am inclined to agree with Blasphemous. America needs a good UU. The normal marine is what, a 8/4/1? The American should have increased attack and increased movement, allowing multiple attacks per turn and also decreased defense. This will make them very offensive units but very poor at defense (look at whats happening in Iraq)

Maybe make it a 10/3/2. What do you think?

a proposal that just came in my mind:
Marines as american UU as a replacement for a modern infantry unit (to be added, with anphibious ability)

a proposal that just came in my mind:
Marines as american UU as a replacement for a modern infantry unit (to be added, with anphibious ability)
Well, not totally accurate because other nations have marines as well, but sounds good! Both should have paradrop, I think. Not a very high range, just enough to make use of this very interesting strategic option that is wasted on the underpowered paratrooper. It's not like modern infantry can't be easil flown in to a combat zone, even if it's not an actual paradrop... The game's paradrop is the closest we can get to that. (Unless you wanna add another helicopter-type transport plane.)

YES!

American marines are pretty much able to do anything, so it works really well for them to have like every ability ;p

Henyway I am so glad I wasted all this time playing a new game when u had already released the next step ;p

Henyway I am so glad I wasted all this time playing a new game when u had already released the next step ;p

No I haven't. it's just a couple of fixes. Blasphemous wanted it before restarting the game.
Next real step will be 0.4 - with governments.

Anyone else think it would be cool to do scenarios for various eras based on the completed version of this mod? you could set it up for the age of discovery, or the american revolution, or the cold war or ww1 & 2

it wouldnt be so hot for the ancient world, but how awesome would it be for later age scenarios?

def something to think about... mwahahaha rhye, you will NEVER finish ;p

Saw a Greek palace guard unit... nice stats... what is it doing near my capital (moscow)? kinda far from its palace... ;p

also, I hope it will have a prettier graphic than a borrowed warrior one ;p

Russia is a b*&ch to play now. The barbs raid your workers to death, the ai starts sending in settlers to grab all the choice bits, your scout can get nailed thirty ways from the start square, and dont even THINK about staying up in the tech race.

i gave up after the barbs overwhelmed my third stack of workers, cutting their way through two archers to slaughter my poor men.

Russia really needs some help in this department. really really needs. perhaps so bad that i would recommend a worker UU to replace their nuke one. a worker with defense of 1 (or even 2, its pretty hellish out there), slightly work rate, and same build cost.

its that desperate. try it sometime if you dont believe. i had so many men killed that i think i could say that my country was built on blood, blood, blood, and blood.

also, I hope it will have a prettier graphic than a borrowed warrior one ;p

It has different graphics (no graphics is included in the version you have!). Look its civilopedia.

i gave up after the barbs overwhelmed my third stack of workers, cutting their way through two archers to slaughter my poor men.


If you remember, the main problem was early colonization of Ucraina and Siberia. With all those barb.archers should happen later, right?

Anyone else think it would be cool to do scenarios for various eras based on the completed version of this mod? you could set it up for the age of discovery, or the american revolution, or the cold war or ww1 & 2

it wouldnt be so hot for the ancient world, but how awesome would it be for later age scenarios?

def something to think about... mwahahaha rhye, you will NEVER finish ;p

I think that, too.
But it's not ME who will make them!

haha verra true!

colonization does happen MUCH slower... I think the smartest thing for a russian player to do is ICS, mass build troops, disband cc, and annex all computer built cities he can. There is simply no way to make russia look exactly like it does today.

had a thought about that battler/worker. u could replace the warrior with that unit, and make it a 1.1.1 worker with slightly higher cost, higher work rate, and pillage. that way russia has a worker unit that will be capable of carrying out the scorched earth policy. just give it one less hit point than normal units so that it is weaker.

historical reasons: cant think of any, except that the russian peasantry had some pretty brutal uprisings so that kinda justifies an armed laborer.

game reasons: russia cant protect its workers AND its cities AND its settlers from the barbs. this would give it the ability to deal with that AND would create a truly unique UU (only thing that comes close is the roman legion).

well?

no, there is no historical justification at all.
All I can do is make them more powerful, in late stages of testing.

i know

remember, im on heavy drugs, so these prolly arent the best of ideas right now ;p

shoulda seen my xray; teh two bones i broke are at like right angles. its pretty nuts.

still, my drugged brain wants to know if uve played russia recently. it commands u to do so! ;p

seriously, it could just be that im not playin well right now, so someone else needs to verify that russia is really hard.

Anyone else think it would be cool to do scenarios for various eras based on the completed version of this mod? you could set it up for the age of discovery, or the american revolution, or the cold war or ww1 & 2

it wouldnt be so hot for the ancient world, but how awesome would it be for later age scenarios?

def something to think about... mwahahaha rhye, you will NEVER finish ;p
Actually a scenario of any age would be awesome... We could try and rebuild some of the conquests as RoX scenarios... Rise of Rome and Fall of Rome would be interesting for instance.

Bleh, only have an hour to play in and I'm too tired and lazy... So I'll play Icy Tower instead... I'll play RoX tomorrow, promise. =X

Well, turns out I don't have a German class tonight. I'll go ahead and start a game as France (you didn't say you have any prefference whether I should play with them or with the spanish).

Okay, I just finished the ancient age at about 450AD at the same exact turn as Greece. Nobody else is in the middle ages yet but they should all come around soon enough.
I started off a bit weak, got bullied into giving away techs a couple time, but then I invaded the Netherlands with two spears and two swords, took Amsterdam losing just one sword, and took the Hague for peace. Then the Portuguese declared on me so I autorazed their little city in the west of my area and placed a city nearby to replace it. I'm now about to conquor Austria (or rather, Vienna, their only city).
Once that's done I should be a power to reckon with for the Romans and Germans (which iirc, are the current leaders).
The Americans nabbed Baal and another pagan wonder, can't recall which. Other than that wonder building has been pretty normal (portuguese got Maui statues, but that's not a big surprise).
I love the new tech tree, and the ancient age combat setup has exceeded my every expectation of greatness. It makes ancient age combat more strategic, funner, and really more dangerous... I really had to work hard when a Portuguese Spearman started wandering through my territory while I was heading for his home town. But a Spearman and a Swordsman laid him to rest.
I'm gonna prepare for colonialism as soon as I secure my position in Europe. I hope my Republic can take it, I wanna try and avoid my habit of always getting into Communism to support my large militaristic empire.
I can't wait to try out that Grand Battery... It seems potentially overpowered, and if the AI doesn't use it as well as humans that's a problem.

Playin as Amurica!

Year is 1070 in the AD, still no sign of whitey ;p

Im almost outta the ancient era, tryin to colonize all of NA before I begin movin against my neighbors.

I want to give them time to build up an army so that we can have some cool and gripping combat... but since I am outproducing them in terms of cities... it should be fairly short and boring...

Will tell u what I think of the ships if I ever get around to building them.

I assure u that I will be carrying out the Monroe Doctrine to the best of my ability.

After i finish this one I am going to play as Spain, build an army and a fleet and invade Mexico and create a spanish empire!

Aeon, you may wanna wait for whitie so you get cool tech to crush the natives with.

hmm... good point! whitie good friend! bring me guns and firewater!

dude, why is there no rum related improvement? america needs a rum small wonder, because rum IS a wonderful thing ;p

maybe u could make it a resource and require it for privateers? or somehow make it work with pirates by requiring sugar for it (key ingredient of ruM!) ;p

gah these drugs mekein me stoopid... i sat in class today and blew spit bubbles for like an hour. at least i got my grades back (3.611 gpa with 5 AP classes! wOOt) so I am basically done for the year

hopefully ill be tellin yall in three weeks that im in emory! then i can beta test the livin daylights outta this thing!

Good!

I'd like to know
-if the new naval movements work
-if the palace guards were useful
-the list of the builders of the wonders

In the meantime I'm working on governments. I'm trying to find optimal settings that balance the various govs (avoiding too weak or too strong) and that allow some diversification.
This will require no more than 2 days.
I want the next version (0.4) to contain the definitive American UU, too. I'm not convinced by own proposal; we need some brainstorming. It must be our main discussion for the following two days.

palace guards need to be non-mobile! I keep seeing them wander around, and it is pissing me off! ;p

Seriously though, its not logical to give the computer this unit and then let it wander around.

All quiet in America at the moment. Had a brief war with the Iroquois because they DARED settle in MY lands... DOGS! The year is 1300AD, nothing else really.

however, when playing as the english I noticed that a galley gets a far larger bonus than a junk from the great lighthouse.

could I push for the junk to be made an asian boat only, and the galley a euro boat only? the other civs should be stuck with just curraughs until... rather later I would say, but I think people would riot if I said galleons...

yes/no/maybe/stuf? ;p

American Marine Unit!

Rhye ! I want join beta-test team :) with 0.4 ! Is possible ?

Thank you ! :goodjob:

I wanna get back to playing (I'm preparing to invade and conquer England ^^) but just wanted to let you know the game crashes when you try to go into the Alchemy entry. =\
I checked the pediaicosn file, it points to a non-existant icon. Stupid game, can't it automatically use a placeholder for this kind of thing? Bleh.

however, when playing as the english I noticed that a galley gets a far larger bonus than a junk from the great lighthouse.


The junk becomes 5/4/4 instead of 4/3/3, and the galley becomes 6/1/1 instead of 4/1/1.
Tell me if it is too much. In that case I'll reduce the effect to +1, so that junk's still 5/4/4 but galley's 5/1/1.


could I push for the junk to be made an asian boat only, and the galley a euro boat only? the other civs should be stuck with just curraughs until... rather later I would say, but I think people would riot if I said galleons...

yes/no/maybe/stuf? ;p


Nooooooo :) junks are part of the chain

Okay, I'm done for the night, and I love the new ship system! I think that the Lighthouse is fine, it should be built by the mediterranean civs anyway, and it's good if it makes them use Galleys more.
I just took my first caravel for a ride in the ocean... I really like the new set up. I could easily discover America now (1250AD or so) but I'll hold off for a bit and instead scout out good colonies in Africa.

Anyway, I support the normal Marine being replaced with some other modern offensive infantry (Grunt or perhaps GI - General Infantry) that should have both amphibious attack and paradrop with a range of 3 or 4. Its stats should be equal or similar to the current Marine stats. The American UU should be the Marine with say, 14.7.1 instead of 12.6.1, and an extra point to operation range. Possibly it should also cost a bit extra shields so it can't kick *too much* ass.
But trust me on this one Rhye, America would be able to use this unit well. It could actually help America become a dominant force in the modern age.

EDIT: Shouldn't the machinegunner get a nice hefty defensive bombard, so it can be used in stacks to a greater effect?

->I prefer to leave the bombard to guerrillas.

-> the problem with that possibility is the inaccuracy: most of the armies have marine corps, not only America. And instead, a USMC replacing Marines.....an alternative marines animation is missing.
We must be coherent with reality while we think of the gameplay.

->1250? Isn't a bit early?

-> don't delete your savegames. they can be useful to me, when balancing techs cost.

Amurican update:

Where is whitey???

Eurotrash has not yet arrived on our shores, and according to history they are WAYYY LATE. Columbus musta been mega denied, cuz its 1712 and still no sign of them... which is cool, since I have had time to build an uberpowerful infrastructure and begin researching at high speed. I should be caught up with where i think europe is (late medieval) before they hit early modern. I currently only have junks, but I am already well ahead of my american neighbors to whom I have extended the olive branch of peace... but if they piss me off one more time its gonna be the blue vibrator of doom!
;p

search parties are being dispatched to hunt down the partying searchers. a massive invasion force is being prepared... we will colonize the living CRAP out of europe!

problems-
-where be the euros? AI seems to lack interest in finding me!
-lack of a decent early assault unit for the american cultures (some kind of flavor replacement for all of them to deal with the lack of knight and horsemen of various types)
-no real interest in researching my religion... i guess the only problem created is a disgruntled populace of atheists without any minorities to abuse... ;p

oh, and i had the ancestors of everyone running for the presidency shot... its the humane thing to do ;p

What level? Sorry if I missed it in a previous post.

In arecent game, when i change map with Greek
i find they already build a city Delphi in American!
Greek donot have navigation tech but just pass through the Atlantic

What year was it?

Did they have the Lighthouse?

What year was it?

Did they have the Lighthouse?

about 1200, no one has the tech to wait on ocean

no. i have it

The solution to the American problem!

Listen: the M1 Abrams, replaces Modern Armor and can make amphibious assaults!

In arecent game, when i change map with Greek
i find they already build a city Delphi in American!
Greek donot have navigation tech but just pass through the Atlantic

Can you post the savegame please?
With that I can tell you the reason of this.

The solution to the American problem!

Listen: the M1 Abrams, replaces Modern Armor and can make amphibious assaults!

The modern armor animation seems to be the Abrams. Right?

In that case I need another animation for it. Please tell me which one's the most widespread modern armor in the world, and what animation I could use from those in the forum.
You can browse from here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71545

what about the leopard

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30622

The solution to the American problem!

Listen: the M1 Abrams, replaces Modern Armor and can make amphibious assaults!
You've got to be kidding, right? You don't want the USMC but you want a fantasy armoured marine tank?! I don't think so! This thing would be unstoppable, no coastal city would be safe from this!

that's not fantasy! I haven't a vast knowledge of tanks, but I thought that this page were enough to justify it:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm

here's a quote:

Due to unique Marine Corps amphibious requirements, and the need for both supportability and interoperability between the Marine Corps and the US Army, the two services agreed to jointly produce the M1A1 Main Battle Tank. The M1A1 MBT has the capability to conduct operations ashore. It is compatible with all US Navy amphibious ships and craft (to include the LCAC) and Maritime Prepositioning Ships (MPS). The USMC completed fielding of all tanks, to include active, reserve, MPS, and depot maintenance float (DMF) during FY 96.

In 1995 the 26th MEU became the first amphibiously deployed unit to carry the M1A1. This added some complication to the logistics of the unit due to the tank's weight. Topping the scales at over 68 tons the vehicle requires special care during amphibious operations. One tank can be carried at a time on an Air Cushioned Landing Craft (LCAC), two on a Landing Craft Utility (LCU), but only during fairly calm seas. For operations with the Marine Corps, tanks have been equipped with special fording systems. These modifications include extended air intake and exhaust tubes that allow the vehicles to cross rivers and shallow waters such as the surf zones that Marines operate in.

if u were insulted by anything above, sorry, was tryin to emulate the redneck speak that is so prevalent in some areas of my home town.

difficulty is on emperor... i went to bed after that so the search didnt happen ;p

can someone inform me as to the exact process of posting screen shots? i have a great one here to show!

:spear:

because ;p

ummm Rhye i think uve had TOO MUCH COFFEE! ;p

an amphibious tank would be insanely unbalancing; an Abrahams tank that can unload as the primary amphib attacker would be too much. Granted, I want a way to make america powerful in the modern era, but thats just too much!

how about slightly better statted paradropping marines? it makes more sense than a massive warmonster!

if u were insulted by anything above, sorry, was tryin to emulate the redneck speak that is so prevalent in some areas of my home town.


What are you talking about? :confused:


can someone inform me as to the exact process of posting screen shots? i have a great one here to show!

:spear:

because ;p


Save the screenshot as a jpg and attach it with "manage attachments" inside the reply page

how do u save it as a jpeg? i figured out alt-prnt screen but beyond that im lost ;p

with a graphics program with the screenshot feature, like Paint Shop Pro, Photo Shop, Corel Draw...

BLER BLER BLER MAJOR ERROR!

Someone else already mentioned this, but its preeety big. The lack of a civlopedia entry for Alchemy causes the game to explode and then crash...

Here you can see the INS hard at work preventing mass migrations into Amurica!

There are over five cities worth of immigrants below, as well as plenty of violent ruffians in attendance. The group on the far left was expelled after they wandered too close to San Bernadina (I made that one up)...

(how do u get rid of the img tag's location??)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72023&stc=1

->I prefer to leave the bombard to guerrillas.

-> the problem with that possibility is the inaccuracy: most of the armies have marine corps, not only America. And instead, a USMC replacing Marines.....an alternative marines animation is missing.
We must be coherent with reality while we think of the gameplay.

->1250? Isn't a bit early?

-> don't delete your savegames. they can be useful to me, when balancing techs cost.
1. Fine.
2. Well, there's teh Grunt animation which is the Marine with no sleeves... The difference is visible enough to be used either for everyone but america, or for america alone.
3. Yes, it is... I'm not sure how it happened, it's probably because I headed for Magnetism a bit early... Anyway, I'm gonna hold off on heading to america.
4. I never delete saves (I still have saves from before I got Conquests), but for every game I play I have two saves, one which I save over in times of peace, and one for times of war (if the war goes badly wrong, or if the peace is quickly betrayed leading to disaster, I can always reload back to either peace or war). I can give you my current RX2.SAV (RoX game 2) but if I continue to play it will be overwritten.

BUG: Game just crashed, says I dont have the file art\units\guerrilla\guerrilla.ini

anyone else had this one?

thats two crashes this morning ;p

here's a quote:

Due to unique Marine Corps amphibious requirements, and the need for both supportability and interoperability between the Marine Corps and the US Army, the two services agreed to jointly produce the M1A1 Main Battle Tank. The M1A1 MBT has the capability to conduct operations ashore. It is compatible with all US Navy amphibious ships and craft (to include the LCAC) and Maritime Prepositioning Ships (MPS). The USMC completed fielding of all tanks, to include active, reserve, MPS, and depot maintenance float (DMF) during FY 96.

In 1995 the 26th MEU became the first amphibiously deployed unit to carry the M1A1. This added some complication to the logistics of the unit due to the tank's weight. Topping the scales at over 68 tons the vehicle requires special care during amphibious operations. One tank can be carried at a time on an Air Cushioned Landing Craft (LCAC), two on a Landing Craft Utility (LCU), but only during fairly calm seas. For operations with the Marine Corps, tanks have been equipped with special fording systems. These modifications include extended air intake and exhaust tubes that allow the vehicles to cross rivers and shallow waters such as the surf zones that Marines operate in.

Landing a couple of tanks on a beach under ideal weather conditions is hardly the same thing as assaulting a defended coast-line with a brigade, as I'm sure you know.

BUG: Game just crashed, says I dont have the file art\units\guerrilla\guerrilla.ini

anyone else had this one?

thats two crashes this morning ;pYup, I had the same problem. Apparently it was my fault :rolleyes: ;)

BLER BLER BLER MAJOR ERROR!


Both are my fault.

The alchemy one: I forgot a "_LARGE". Don't click on Alchemy until next version

The second : I wrote "guerrilla" instead of "guerilla" (but why only one R?). This means that he doens't find the folder "Guerrila".
The temporary fix until the next version: if you want to keep playing, go inside \civilization 3\civ3ptw\art\units and make a copy of the Guerilla folder. Rename the copy "Guerrilla" and rename the ini inside, too.

Landing a couple of tanks on a beach under ideal weather conditions is hardly the same thing as assaulting a defended coast-line with a brigade, as I'm sure you know.

OK then what do you think of an upgraded modern armor only? (no amphibious)
Or of an upgraded tank (the Sherman)?

2. Well, there's teh Grunt animation which is the Marine with no sleeves... The difference is visible enough to be used either for everyone but america, or for america alone.
3. Yes, it is... I'm not sure how it happened, it's probably because I headed for Magnetism a bit early... Anyway, I'm gonna hold off on heading to america.


2.mmm, a UU is not exactly that cool if its animation is a modified version of the standard one. I'll use lots of those as flavour animations, but as a UU.....low quality.
3.Is Magnetism too early compared to old Astronomy? I thought it was ok. Perhaps some tech costs are too low.

I don't know if the costs are wrong for Magnetism and all.. I traded aggresively to get to it... I only researched it cause the others didn't have it yet. If you want my current save, say so quickly before I play and overwrite it.

By the way, don't you think flavour units will simply slow down the game with no real significance to gameplay and strategy?

1. yes, post it please.

2. No real significance to gameplay and strategy -> that is true.
But unlike RaR, flavour units won't add complexity. I haven't said this before, but RoX (or RoCX?) will not contain flavour units, but flavour animations.
This means that every cultural group will have its own set of units, without confusing people with multiple names.

But this will be done through multiple units with the same name, right?
That adds just as much of a slowdown as multiple units with different names and stats.

I'm emailing the save to you, I made a couple silly renames of cities and units that I'd rather not make public cause they may make me look stupid or possibly insult someone.

hahah we all do dumb things... mostly when we are hyped up on something... like darvaset!

i finally got my us ap award, its a nice big book of american history, looks like it should be perfect for civlopedia entries an such for any american UU... like, for instance, the marines!

modern armor UUs are nice, but there are so few marine UUs... so lets be original! ;p

give america a marine UU!

But this will be done through multiple units with the same name, right?
That adds just as much of a slowdown as multiple units with different names and stats.



Why a slowdown?

Well, don't extra units slow down the game?
I figured the more data needs to be screwed around with, the slower the game goes. Was I wrong?
Please confirm that you got the save from me and that the file works... I haven't played today yet and won't for the next hour or so, but I wanna know it arrived safely before I overwerite it.

I've received the save, thanks. I don't need anything else for now. Maybe I'll take you last one.


ABout the other thing, I think that it may affect game setup, and perhaps loading and saving time. I may be wrong, but it's the most logical conclusion.

Also, changing the guerilla file to guerrilla is not enough to allow you to continuing a save... you can change it but you have to start a new game i think...

you must have BOTH a guerilla folder with guerilla.ini inside and a guerrilla folder with guerrilla.ini inside.

GIThat's it. That was the final piece needed for the American Marine UU.

Name: GI
Replaces: Marine
Stats: 14.6.1 100 Shields
Abilities: Amphibious Assault, Paradrop
Historical Basis: The offensive troops used in the Pacific during WW2 and the Marine Corps that they grew into.

It fits, you've gotta admit that.

khift, what does G.I. mean?
And what animation you would use?

GI is slang for general infantry... which is why I am pretty certain it might not be a good choice for a unit which is clearly a specialist. perhaps Rangers might be a better choice, since it is capable of everything the US Army Rangers do?

Rhye, did that. I made a copy (changed folder name) and changed the name of everything inside

I will try and figure out what the other thing I need to change is, because clearly I am in the wrong.

Come on now,
it's

Goverment Issue (G.I.)

Took a look at the Wikipedia, turns out it's Government Issue and not General Infantry after all. It apparently later became a term that simply means an american soldier.
It fits right in, but Ranger could be just as good a name for the american Marine UU.

err... umm... it was a test! haha you pass! :mischief:

haha i give in you guys are right!

turns out I've been living in ignorance all my days... who would have thought... ;p

Ranger? Wasn't the ranger that mounted red-dressed canadian with a hat?

Ranger? Wasn't the ranger that mounted red-dressed canadian with a hat?
Not only... The US Rangers are a pretty versatile army corp...
Actually I don't know much about them, read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Army_Ranger

haha Rhye, thats the Mounties! hehehe those guys make me giggle with glee! ;p

Ok so not exactly a heavy infantry unit, but it does say that they are go for entry land, air, and sea, and that they are an elite combat unit. Sound more like specialists than the marines, but if marines is not appropriate I am in favor of this group.

I would say that they should have the ability to build airfields (capturing airfields seems to be a major part of their duties), but no one would trade a combat unit for a tile addon of dubious utility.

Well, if they have paradrop, sacrificing one unit to get the others to combat faster can be worth it.
Anyway, the current Marines already represent a sort of specialist... They do not each represent several thousands of men, they represent much smaller groups who work efficiently and try to minimize casualties. That's how modern combat is, compared to earlier gun combat.

Agreed, glad you argee with me that the americans need a ground unit! lol

OK then what do you think of an upgraded modern armor only? (no amphibious)
Or of an upgraded tank (the Sherman)?I would still prefer to see the US Marine Corps represented. Yes, you are right that many other nations have Marines, but the US has used the Marines since the very early 1900's to invade Cuba, the Phillipines, Nicaragua, Mexico, Grenada, Panama, Honduras, Haiti.....etc, etc. I think it would make a great late game unit for the US. It would make the US a late game threat to any Civ on the map (especially with the new naval rules). It would make the early turn boredem playing as America worth it, if you knew that later in the game you could build loads of kick-ass Marines that could go out around the world and break a few heads :D

In this moment there is only one good animation: the modern infantry.
The others are not so good (the commando) or a modification of existing one (grunt).

I can use the mod.infantry and call it USMC, but in that case you must give up to any thoughts of adding a modern infantry unit.

Rhye, I recall a set of very good-looking modern commando and infantry types... I recall something about a blue beret... I'll see if I can find them. (Or maybe are these the modern infantry?)

No luck yet, but I took a look at the CFC main page and saw this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=102437
May be a nice addition to RoC and/or RoX.

This unit (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=440180&postcount=397) looks potentially good for the standard modern infantry (if you use the Marine gfx as the American UU).
This one is also a possibility. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=959457&postcount=652)

Let's see...

this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1018583&postcount=44) unit may be a ranger, while this one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=440180&postcount=397) could be modern infantry.

Or...
the last one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=440180&postcount=397) for USMC and this one with no backpack (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1018623&postcount=48) could be a Special Force / Commando unit.

I like both options alot. All three are very nice units.
Just played a bit more. It's something like 1400 now and I recently discovered india and australia. The India Trading Company pedia entry says something about the Great Wall...
Also oddly enough the Arabs only have one city, the others seem to have been taken by the Babs and the Persians. This is odd cause the Arabs built a few wonders in teh ancient age and I would expect them to be pretty strong.
The game crashed because I discovered Alchemy... Is there any temporary fix I can use so I can keep playing? Maybe I could copy and rename some file?

isn't just NOT clicking on alchemy pedia enough to carry on?

isn't just NOT clicking on alchemy pedia enough to carry on?
Nope, when I research it it needs to show the pedia large icon and that crashes as well. And it crashed it before the turn's autosave, of course. :'(

I'm sorry, there's no way to fix this.
You'll have to wait the 0.4 (tonight or tomorrow) to start a new version.

The new version will be ready when I have the definitive decision about America.

What do you prefer?
Do you agree with the first or the second proposal?
(No modern infantry unit. Its animation used for USMC.
Possible addition of a commando unit, better if being produced by an improvement every 10 turns.)

No luck yet, but I took a look at the CFC main page and saw this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=102437
May be a nice addition to RoC and/or RoX.

it seems that they are placed randomly. I can't move all the huts of the map only to match the right graphics

Are you sure I can't somehow edit the pediaicons file and other stuff to fix the crash so I can continue playing? I was just about to conquer the Byzantines and then invade Spain. :'(

Let's see...

this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1018583&postcount=44) unit may be a ranger, while this one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=440180&postcount=397) could be modern infantry.

Or...
the last one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=440180&postcount=397) for USMC and this one with no backpack (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1018623&postcount=48) could be a Special Force / Commando unit.
Oooh nice units!

I'd go for the first "Ranger" unit as the US UU and the Light Infantry by Balou as Modern Infantry. I also had a look around and thought this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=623121&postcount=506) Russian Spetsnaz unit looks good. OK, so its Russian but it would still make a nice looking US UU as an alternative to the beret wearing Ranger unit. :D

I would still prefer to see the US Marine Corps represented. Yes, you are right that many other nations have Marines, but the US has used the Marines since the very early 1900's to invade Cuba, the Phillipines, Nicaragua, Mexico, Grenada, Panama, Honduras, Haiti.....etc, etc. I think it would make a great late game unit for the US. It would make the US a late game threat to any Civ on the map (especially with the new naval rules). It would make the early turn boredem playing as America worth it, if you knew that later in the game you could build loads of kick-ass Marines that could go out around the world and break a few heads :D

Strange - I thought the US used marines (Continental Marines) as early as the war of independence and also in the first Barbary war to invade Tripoli. I still hate the idea of a Marine UU - I just don't see how the US marines differ significantly from other countries' marines. England would have a better claim to a marine UU that the US IMHO (not that I'd want to see that either).

Strange - I thought the US used marines (Continental Marines) as early as the war of independence and also in the first Barbary war to invade Tripoli. I still hate the idea of a Marine UU - I just don't see how the US marines differ significantly from other countries' marines. England would have a better claim to a marine UU that the US IMHO (not that I'd want to see that either).Sorry, wasn't very clear. I didn't mean that was the first time the US marines were used. Simply that right from the start of the 20th Century they have been used regularly to invade dozens of countries and enforce US "Sphere of Influence" policy in the Americas and could therefore be considered a significant unit in US History. The difference with the US Marines compared to many other nations marines being that they have actually been regularly used as an offensive naval force, landing on beaches and acting like marines are supposed to!

3 proposals:

1)
-Modern Infantry = 10/10/1
-Ranger = 10/10/1 + amphibious + paradrop (replaces mod.inf.)

2)
-Modern Infantry = 10/10/1
-USMC = 14/8/1 + amphibious (replaces marine 12/6/1)

3)
-USMC = 14/8/1 + amphibious (replaces marine 12/6/1)
-Commando = 10/1/1 + stealth attack + invisible + very expensive

Rhye, invisible land units are a bad idea, because of the sub bug they mean if anyone bumps into them there will be a declaration of war with no possibility of refusal (the window pop up again and again until you declare.) I would say add modern infantry with 12.10.1 and a short-range paradrop somewhere in the modern age, leave marines as they are, have american UU replace marines and have 14.6.1 with amphibious, and paradrop with range of 3. You could have their defense at 8 and then make them a bit extra expensive.
This will make them valuable and unique.

Modern infantry should maybe have stealth attack to make them useful... I mean, modern units truly can choose what to target in their attacks... The ability could also be given to other modern units, to help promote combined arms.

3 proposals:

1)
-Modern Infantry = 10/10/1
-Ranger = 10/10/1 + amphibious + paradrop (replaces mod.inf.)

2)
-Modern Infantry = 10/10/1
-USMC = 14/8/1 + amphibious (replaces marine 12/6/1)

3)
-USMC = 14/8/1 + amphibious (replaces marine 12/6/1)
-Commando = 10/1/1 + stealth attack + invisible + very expensiveI'm for the second option, as well as the possible addition of the Commando (10/1/1 + stealth attack) with a wonder of some kind.

Rhye, is it at all possible to fix the game so I can continue playing, or does it require biq file changes as well as other things?

OPTION 2!!

Option 1's unit is simply not enough better to be worth inclusion, and with Option 3, invisible units suck... nuff said ;p

I also thought a British Colonial soldier was something we should think about, as they were CERTAINLY around longer than that more famous phenomenon, the longbow. With the M-o-W and a good cheap infantry the British would certainly be a force to be reckoned with in the pre-industrial era... but the Long Bow is more famous, so it has the right of way!

BUT in terms of making America really bloom in the later stages, a Marine UU would allow them to be a major P.I.T.A. to ANY coastal civs in the world, especially in the hands of a human.

Rhye, we need v4 soon! I'm going into withdrawl!

Actually the Longbow can have a great impact on the game (in a way similar to history)... As France I was just about to invade England in the early middle ages when I realized I would not fare very well against them even with my knights. So I'm putting it off till we both have muskets (in my case special muskets ^^) and I have the grand battery, then I will have a true advantage. (Assuming I will ever be able to continue this game.)

As you want

Grand Battery is an excellent unit. In my recent test game as France, I found them to be extremely useful.

How are all of the modern era units balancing out? Has anyone finished a modern era game and have some feedback?

I'm afraid that if the civilpedia automatically pops up making the game crash, the crash can't be avoided.
Will be fixed in 0.4, as soon as I get the definitive decision.

I'd like to hear Horton's opinion about American UU.
BTW, Horton if you haven't followed the discussion, the choice is between an upgraded modern infantry (ranger); an upgraded marine, the A-Bomb, the M1 Abrams or the AEGIS cruiser.

Rhye, I think you misnamed the guerilla unit as guerrilla. This is causing the game to crash.

On the subject of the American UU, I am not thrilled with any of those choices honestly. They already get the F-15 which is nearly useless. I would much prefer to see either a late medieval musket type like a Minuteman with a decent attack, low defense and ability to treat all as roads or perhaps a cavalry unit to modeled upon the cavalry that the United States used to scour the plains and west of american indians. Either of these would be preferable to having another late industrial or modern era unit that will be of extremely limited usefulness and short lifespan.

If I have to choose from the list I would rather see an upgraded marine because they would have the most flavor and utility and also because the US marine has a lot of mystique for americans and around the world.

One other thing, I love the grand battery but letting it treat all as roads is massively overpowering. I built a dozen and coupled with a cavalry army I became absolutely unstoppable. IMO, they should be movement 1 as all other comparable artillery.

I was wondering about that, actually... considering that Napoleon lost Waterloo on account of mud, it seemed odd to give his cannon the ability to march willy nilly across all terrain.

Stats (damage, range, ROF):
12.1.1 (Cannon)
12.1.2 (Grand Battery) All Terrain As Roads
12.1.1 (Hwatch'a) Lethal Land & Sea
16.2.2 (Artillery)

Granting GB Lethal Land and removing ATAR would seem like a decent tradeoff, as it lacks the Lethal Sea of the HWA, but has an increase ROF to compensate... although the utility of Lethal Sea for a 1 tile artillery is debatable.

Increasing range of GB to two tiles and taking away ATAR would also seem a decent trade off. Historically Napoleon's guns were of high quality, as were his gun crews, so this is one way to represent that.

Another option would be to increase general bombard strength by two and taking away ATAR. Again, its just a way of representing training and equipment quality.

Its pretty clear that I think ATAR needs to go. Horton has proved beyond a doubt that it is too fast to be included as is.

Something that would be cool, and perhaps worth including, would be an ATAR artillery unit, call it mobile cannon or something, that can move two squares. It would have to have lower stats (and probably the same cost), but would be more useful for rapid campaigns. I know that the US Marines used artillery like that on expeditions; apparently some of their field artillery was light enough so as to be loadable on mules.

Just an idea ;p

I'm afraid that if the civilpedia automatically pops up making the game crash, the crash can't be avoided.
Will be fixed in 0.4, as soon as I get the definitive decision.
Errr... It doesn't pop up the pedia... Just that window that tells you research is complete and asks you what to research next. It has the large pediaicon in it.
Aren't the pediaicons.txt file and the pic itself completely independant of the biq? If they are then they can be edited/created to solve the problem without ruining my save.
About the american UU I would rather see the F-15 replaced with a more influential unit (maybe the idea of the WWII bomber with extra range, as suggested earlier?) along with the marine UU which would simply give America an in-game boost because of its placement (and also it's historically justified.) The point is that America cannot really bloom before the modern age in the game. From the moment it gets "discovered" it has alot of work to do before reaching world power status, and for a nation that for the last few decades has been so immensly important and will probably continue to do so in one way or another till the end of the game's scope (2050), it's only fair to allow her to have military power in the era in which America has been into international war.

The F-15????
The F-15 is gone since a long time!! Have a look at the tree, or at America!


however, I'll put the USMC in the 0.4, together with the governments and some tweaks to Grand Battery and Palace Guards, and Pedia fixes

Oh, the B-52 was in after all... Horton, you confused me well. =P
(But what I said on the subject is still true.)

YES!!!

Fi-nal-ly!

Huah marines! ;p

I knew you would see the light!

NOW, about the Russian nuclear weapon; don't you think a T-35 or T-65 would make more sense for the Russians than the big bomb?

America was the one famous for oodles of nuclear weapons, and we all agreed it would be a bad idea for them... sooo does it make sense for Russia, famous for its massive army and brilliantly designed MiGs to have a nuke?

Or how about a cheaper base (industrial era) infantry unit that does not become obsolete? With higher defense, but lower hp?

I would say that a well-statted MiG might be the best choice for Russia (considering just how amazing those things are) in terms of coolness, but a good cheap infantry unit would make the most sense in terms of utility.

They all make sense with history, so its your choice. Its just not fair to stick Russia with an ICBM UU, something that will never be used, when there are so many other choices out there!

I love this game ;p

Rhye, when can we expect the 0.4 files, and how long do you think we'll have on that build before there's a new one?
(I wanna plan ahead what civs to test... With some civs I will want to test the late game and for that I need a stable build to play on for a while.)

I'll send the 0.4 whis afternoon. In this moment I can't say how long it will last.


The R-7 was my second choice (the first was an helicopter), but it can be changed if I find something better.

The R-7 was my second choice (the first was an helicopter), but it can be changed if I find something better.
Was it the Hind?

One of the Russian T tanks could be used as a UU. They are generally faster than other tanks when they were released (The T-80 can go 75 km/h, and the post WWII T-54/55 could reach 51 km/h which was faster than other tanks until 1965)

it could have been both a Hind or the Mi-8 (its precursor). There are no good animations around.
About the tanks, the perfect thing would be the T-34 (WWII tank). But I don't find its animation.

I've found it. Well, that's not exactly an excellent animation....
this is the preview:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=279537&postcount=83

I leave the judgment to you

I found a T55 here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=58361). I'll try to find some other units that could possibly be used as a Russian UU.

Just sent the 0.41 with the new features already mentioned.
I'd like anybody to test an eastern civ. Better if Japan, because the Kamikaze needs a test.

Have a nice warmonger weekend ;)

Just sent the 0.41 with the new features already mentioned.
I'd like anybody to test an eastern civ. Better if Japan, because the Kamikaze needs a test.

Have a nice warmonger weekend ;)
Well, my weekend is now ending but I bet I can squeeze in a good four hours tonight starting about now... I kinda wanted to try Germany out, I never played as Germany before (shocking, I know).
We should split up the work. We need to construct a priority list of nations to playtest and of things in general to playtest, then assign each testing job to however many people needed. We can get more testing done if we're more efficient and more clear about what we're looking for.

I want to play China, cuz I had a game with them cancelled by the bug.

Do we get the new file in sthe same way as the old one?

Yep... just change the old url to 041 haha

WOAH! Rate caps... I sat there clickin on 100% for like 5 minutes before I figured that one out ;p

These new governments are pretty sweet; I def like the changes made here. It looks like you really have to make a decision war vs tech, what with rate caps and corruption... but the titles are a little weird for some, since it says like Lord/Lady for Theocratic Monarchy.

Also, looks like Absolute Monarchy lacks any titles whatsoever. Can we PLEASE PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE WITH SUGAR ON TOP put Sun King in there in memory of L14? ;p

Feudal Monarchy has same work rate as Democracy?? Kinda kinky... is it supposed to be the mid game facism? Wouldnt that work better with Absolute Monarchy (again, think L14, PetertG, FredtG)? You have unit price tags on Absl Mon set to 2PU, low WW, and high levels of unit support... its mixed messages all over the place haha ;p

Constitutional Monarchy also lacks titles. Will this cause a problem in game (like the stupid alchemy problem)?

Starting a game as China, intending to check out the Feudal Monarchy (suicide here I come ;p). Then will play another game as Amurica and try out marines and ship moves.

Thanks Rhye!

I am starting a game on Acc. Prod. as the Austrians. I've noticed that if you are good at tech borkering you can have an excess of 500+ gold very early. I was lucky enough to pop a settler early on so I think I am going to warmonger for a very long time :D ! One thing I saw in the Civ. Pedia was that the Turtle Ship SAYS it requires coal but it really doesn't. Get back to guys later!

oops. I forgot the titles and the modifiers.
I hope it will not cause problems...

The sun king...why not ;)

one more thing....aeon, could you put a link in your signature to the mod, saying that you're a tester? It would be cool to have everybody the title of part of the team :goodjob:

thanks beernuts for the info. Do you like the pack as it is now? (as this is the first time you get it).




About the feudal mon., the govs must be balanced. If a gov. is completely crap then it is an useless addition.
Overall the feudal monarchy could even just be deleted because very similar to the absolute in historical meaning.
For now it is in; if you find something redundant, it will be the one to go.

Hey Rhye!

You know what would be REALLY cool?

If I could take my brand spanking new US Marines, in their new and improved realistically moving ships, and invade a South-East Asian country... but we seem to be lacking one! Vietnam? Thailand? Laos? Cambodia? Is anybody here? Nooo... seems like everyone is in... Greece... hmm... thats not fair. Oh well, I will just have to do something really a-historical and invade... Persian... yes, Persian... cities in South East Asia. Because that makes sense...

Hmm. Hmm? HMM!

Perhaps one of those Greek countries should... disappear. Greece and Ottomans/Turkey seem valid, but the Byzantines... the Romans, really, dispossesed of Rome in an easily represented way for C3C. Why do they need to be here? Those Byzantines need a new home! South East Asia anyone? Plenty of beautiful rain forests, scenic mountains, and interesting places to invade for no particular reason!

JOIN THE CTCASEACOOTB TODAY AND CREATE A BETTER MOD!!!

(or as we like to say, the Committee To Create A South East Asian Civ Out Of The Byzantines)

(If you are thinking that I was pushing the Marines just for this... you would be right ;p)

The choice comes down to Thailand (longest lasting monarchy in the world if I am correct, which isn't often these days ;p) or Vietnam (a wonderful country rich in culture and unwarranted invasions!) in my eyes.

Let the battle be reopened!

Rhye, modifiers not being in may be a problem, but we'll see...
I'll start testing in a few minutes. If you have a prefference about who I should test, let me know quickly via a post or ICQ.

Rhye, you are absolutely correct about the Feudal Monarchy needing some saving grace... but I really think that even amazing workers aren't enough to convince people to deal with a really long period of anarchy. In your mod it is a really painful penalty!

So... why not lower the government switching penalty a few turns to give people an incentive to switch a little more frequently than twice a game? (religious civ players don't count, so shaddap you! ;p)

Either that, or change the feudal one to offer more support at higher levels. There are simply not enough small cities being produced (outside of America, China, and Russia) to make it worthwhile. The high support for lower level cities would be far more valuable with earlier governments, where you don't have all those aquaducts killing your support levels!

It would be nice if anarchy were shorter... I mean, no nation was in revolutionary anarchy for the lengths you see in the game (sometimes over a century)... Religious civs can be compensated with something else that has to do with the new religion system...

it could have been both a Hind or the Mi-8 (its precursor). There are no good animations around.
About the tanks, the perfect thing would be the T-34 (WWII tank). But I don't find its animation.Why don't you just use the T34 animation from the PTW extra folder? That's a good animation.

An even better animation is riptide's T34/76 made for the Storm Over Europe Mod.
T - 34/76 (http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?t=4886)

You need to be a member of CDG to see and download the unit.

Guess I cant cause more than one problem at a time ;p

Rhye, how many techs can you give a civ when it starts out? If it is more than 3, then I have some ideas you might like.

Something is up with the new patch. The wait time between turns is now extremely slow. Could some setting have been changed by accident? Maybe romaing barbarians or something?

I was sure it was just my comp... I installed some stuff that runs in the background on my comp yesterday so I assumed that's why it's suddenly so slow... Then I turned those things off and didn't notice that it made no difference.
Anyway, so far all I see is that the game is very slow between turns, and that research is WAY slow. It's speeding up now as we head towards the last quarter of the ancient age (at about 350AD) but I have yet to see if the timing will be right.
This is my first time palying as Germany, and it was just hell dealing with all those barbarian horse archers... They delayed my third city placement by a few dozen turns cause I had to build up military to deal with them. But that left me with a big military which is now having some fun in France. :D

Something is up with the new patch. The wait time between turns is now extremely slow. Could some setting have been changed by accident? Maybe romaing barbarians or something?
I thought it was just my computer, but I guess I was wrong.

It's painfully slow. Like worse than regular Civ3 on a map of the same size.

The choice comes down to Thailand (longest lasting monarchy in the world if I am correct, which isn't often these days ;p)

No. The monarchy of Thailand is 700 years old spanning over 4 periods. The Danish monarchy is 1100 years old with the same bloodline. If you should be interested. Thailand may have the longest lasting absolute monarchy - that I do not know.

Why don't you just use the T34 animation from the PTW extra folder? That's a good animation.

An even better animation is riptide's T34/76 made for the Storm Over Europe Mod.
T - 34/76 (http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?t=4886)

You need to be a member of CDG to see and download the unit.


Oh, you're right, I didn't seek in the PTW extra folders.
The discussion can now be opened on what of T-34 and R-7 was more important to Russia.

Rhye, how many techs can you give a civ when it starts out? If it is more than 3, then I have some ideas you might like.


It's 4. Currently 3 of 4 are used.

Rhye, can you think of what you might have done to make the load times so slow? It's virtually unplayable now. I estimate that turn load times are at least 10 times as slow now.

Something is up with the new patch. The wait time between turns is now extremely slow. Could some setting have been changed by accident? Maybe romaing barbarians or something?
Really?
Let's see what's changed:

-new governments
-addition of the marine unit
-some corrections to unit stats (kamikaze, grand battery, palace guard, swordsman&UUs)
-fixed civilopedia, pediaicons and pcx
-tech rate increased from 255 to 260 (so it's a VERY LITTLE change)



So it sounds VERY STRANGE that it's suddenly so slow.
If that is true, there are 4 possible reasons:

-the addition of a unit (I did not delete the A-bomb but gave it to everybody) exceeded some hidden limit (I hope this isn't the case!!!)
-the addition of governments exceeded some hidden limit
-Civ doesn't like rate caps.
-Immobile palace guards cause some problems

I'm betting it's the palace guards. The AI probably keeps trying to move them and getting confused.

I'm trying it now. Yes it is slow.

Now it's late here. I'm just back home and going to bed. Tomorrow morning I'll find out what happened.

The game started off hellishly slow for me as well. It was very odd. But I slugged through it and by about turn 50 things started getting faster. I am currently on turn 108 now and the game is running fine.

My game is going very well. As luck would have it Rome and Germany BOTH declared war on me on the same turn! I was able to beat them back and settle for peace with no cities taken or lost. I am in the early middle ages right now and I have 2036 gold!!! How crazy is that!

Anyhow, just stick to it, the game will eventually speed up.

EDIT: Another thing I noticed is that sworsman are more expensive than Urban militia! Whats up with that?
Swordsman: 36 shields
Urban Militia: 30 shields
Upgrade cost: 0

Ok I see my mistake. It wasnt the longest monarchy in the world, it is merely the oldest SE Asian country as it was never colonized by Europeans. Ok, I guess my memory of the area is a little rusty, but come on 6th Grade was the only time I have ever taken a class that even mentioned the place as a place, and not as it related to other places... although most of my courses fail to mention it even in that respect.

Still, I think that either Thailand or Vietnam would be far more logical than the Byzantines in terms of in game utility.

Rhye, you proooomised you would think about moving some civs around in the xpack ;p

I know you guys are still busy with my attack on Russian nukes and game speed, but this needs to be considered as an issue regardless of my unwillingness to actually doublecheck my memory against something ;p


I know why the guards are slowing things down!

They have the explore flag checked!

CLEARLY this causes an issue! How can a unit that does not move explore???

It boggles my brain, and the AI has shown time and again that it has even less computing power upstairs than me... so is there any wonder that this is a problem?

This message sponsored by the CTCASEACOOTB

It's 4. Currently 3 of 4 are used.A shame it wasn't five... It was such a nice idea. Oh well.

For the curious, though, it was to give each civ two "Being <trait>" techs that would lead to a new optional tech giving a nice, trait specific small wonder.

IE: Militaristic civs would be given a "Being Militaristic" tech at the beginning of the Industrial Age, and another tech, "The Great War" would require Nationalism and "Being Militaristic" and would give the small wonder "The Great War" allowing you to draft regular units as opposed to conscripts.

Agricultural -> A small wonder that acted like a hospital that required Feudalism.
Commercial -> A small wonder giving a 75%-100% bonus to commerce in one city. Maybe requiring Magnetism or Map Making.
Industrial -> A 75%-100% bonus to industry in one city. Requiring Industrialization.
Seafaring -> A small wonder giving the "water trade" flag to every city, maybe off of Map Making or Magnetism.
Religious -> A generic pilgrim site, giving some happiness and a little trade. Requires Monotheism.
Expansionist -> A small wonder that spawns a special scout unit (0.0.1 +ATAR +Reconaissance (The same ability fighter jets get)) every 6 or so turns. Requires whatever gives you spies.

Alas, it could've been such a good thing, no?

A little bit of testing has shown that the Palace Guards are indeed the source of the speed problem.

The secret, I think, of getting cruise missiles on ships or/and subs are to make them tactical missiles, added to the cruise missile tag.

Then making the ship or sub carrying tactical missiles like the nuclear subs already are. Of course one can't add lots of transport on those subs/ships since the downside is that AEGIS Cruisers then actually can carry just as many normal Tactical Nuclear Missiles as cruise missiles I think.

The same problem with all transport for ships. 5 infantry equals 5 Modern Armor, which is a bit wrong, but that's Civ3 for you.

Cemo
I have been gone for a week, so started where I left off. In that case forgive me if this is noted in later pages.
Aegis cruisers(and any other USN warship capable of firing TLAM cruise missiles) can, indeed fire the nuclear version of this missile in the same numbers as the conventional. They have been removed from the fleet units for some time, but the ability was there and remains to put them on. It therefore is not unrealistic to say they can carry both in the same numbers.

No. The monarchy of Thailand is 700 years old spanning over 4 periods. The Danish monarchy is 1100 years old with the same bloodline. If you should be interested. Thailand may have the longest lasting absolute monarchy - that I do not know.
Just to clarify, Thailand has not been an absolute monarchy for quite some time now :)

Hey Rhye!

You know what would be REALLY cool?

If I could take my brand spanking new US Marines, in their new and improved realistically moving ships, and invade a South-East Asian country... but we seem to be lacking one! Vietnam? Thailand? Laos? Cambodia? Is anybody here? Nooo... seems like everyone is in... Greece... hmm... thats not fair. Oh well, I will just have to do something really a-historical and invade... Persian... yes, Persian... cities in South East Asia. Because that makes sense...

Hmm. Hmm? HMM!

Perhaps one of those Greek countries should... disappear. Greece and Ottomans/Turkey seem valid, but the Byzantines... the Romans, really, dispossesed of Rome in an easily represented way for C3C. Why do they need to be here? Those Byzantines need a new home! South East Asia anyone? Plenty of beautiful rain forests, scenic mountains, and interesting places to invade for no particular reason!

JOIN THE CTCASEACOOTB TODAY AND CREATE A BETTER MOD!!!

(or as we like to say, the Committee To Create A South East Asian Civ Out Of The Byzantines)

(If you are thinking that I was pushing the Marines just for this... you would be right ;p)

The choice comes down to Thailand (longest lasting monarchy in the world if I am correct, which isn't often these days ;p) or Vietnam (a wonderful country rich in culture and unwarranted invasions!) in my eyes.

Let the battle be reopened!


Vietnam and Thailand do not really qualify in my eye as civilizations (merely countries) - Thailand/Siam is not in any way old - it settled from China a mere 700 years ago - It was only accelerated to fame because the colonial powers left it alone (to act as a convenient buffer zone between the British empire and French Indo-china) that and the fact the British Monarchy treated the king of Siam as an equal. Burma or Cambodia have a better claim.

Thailand has a chequered history, and has never been taken seriously by anyone - for example Thailand declared war on Britain at the start of WWII, Britain refused to even accept its declaration of war and never treated it as an enemy! And indeed its capital of today Krung Tep is only where it is because the Burmese sacked their capital and they fled to an area where the French would protect them (a small French trading post called Bangkok).

Also if a SE asian civ was included the ease with which the USMC UU would walk all over it really would serve to illustrate how overpowered a unit it is in terms of realism. :mischief: :)

Hi,
I want to say something about geography of turkey. There is never a desert in Anatolia. In contrast there is 4 river in west turkey ( of course they are too small to show in this map but they are important river for produce electricty) also there must be a wheat between incense and iron because middle anatolia is one of the huge wheat producer in europe.

Yaawn......
I just woke up. What a dream! In my dream the leaning tower was burning and fell to the ground because of the wind. It was broken into hundreds of pieces. I saved myself from the danger and then made a lot of photos with my camera before the arrival of the police, who sent me away.


A shame it wasn't five... It was such a nice idea. Oh well.

it could've been such a good thing, no?

Yes it was. The concept could be useful for many things. I'll keep that in mind.

A little bit of testing has shown that the Palace Guards are indeed the source of the speed problem.

Right! You saved me the work, thanks.
Obviously I'll upload the 0.42 because otherwise you can't play with the biq you have.

I am in the early middle ages right now and I have 2036 gold!!!


How did you get all that gold?

It would be nice if anarchy were shorter... I mean, no nation was in revolutionary anarchy for the lengths you see in the game (sometimes over a century)... Religious civs can be compensated with something else that has to do with the new religion system...

Anarchy length cannot be changed...
A shame, because combining this with what Khift said was a good idea.

Uploaded the 0.42.
There's the palace guards correction, plus all the other things mentioned (titles, modifiers, urban militia, etc.).


Replace the 1 with 2 in the last link I sent you.

How did you get all that gold?

Heavy tech brokering with Euro nations. [pimp] Greece has about 1000+ from brokering with middle east nations.

Does the update mean I have to start a new game? :'(

Load Error

FILE NOT FOUND

"Art\Units\aristotle\aristotle.INI"

A shame it wasn't five... It was such a nice idea. Oh well.
Well, you can always choose for each civ which trait was most influential and give that civ one trait tech. You could even use this trick to manipulate world power and war (say by giving certain civs the unique ability to see some bonus resources from some point and on or even strat resources that would attract invasions at the right time. You could possibly make the AI more likely to start a proper world war. Let's say you give the Axis countries one tech that allows them to see one resource that lays under all Allied capitals, and the other way around with a different resource for the Allies. You may just see major wars breaking out for the acquisition of these resources. If you have multiple resources, you can also make sure that each side has multiple targets so they won't just stop once they take one such resource. You make these resources required for some generic unit that would be split into Allied, Axis, and Neutralm and then when this unit upgrades, the resource has no value and the AI stops pursuing it. I know my Oil was not desired for trade by any of the AI when I played as Persia until I sold everyone Combustion.)

Load Error

FILE NOT FOUND

"Art\Units\aristotle\aristotle.INI"



I forgot to edit that pediaicons entry before posting.

I hope it is not too late, I posted a fixed version right now.

If you already started the game and have this problem you can have a temporary fix copying the scientific leader animation into a new "Artistotle" folder and .ini.
Just like you did with "guerrilla".

Hi,
I want to say something about geography of turkey. There is never a desert in Anatolia. In contrast there is 4 river in west turkey ( of course they are too small to show in this map but they are important river for produce electricty) also there must be a wheat between incense and iron because middle anatolia is one of the huge wheat producer in europe.

I'll have a look. I must be very careful because if I change the starting location surroundings I may affect the development of the Ottomans

Is this going to be a long lasting update? I hate having a game get to like 500AD and then quitting to play with the new setup... well I kinda do, but the newer setup is always cooler so its kinda mixed.

China went pretty well for the brief period I played. I am also seeing huge amounts of cash trade hands, but strangely enough have not seen any European explorers yet... its kinda spooking me since I usually start seeing them in the 500-750AD period.

GRAH I am playing as England next game because I want to see the ships!

Also if a SE asian civ was included the ease with which the USMC UU would walk all over it really would serve to illustrate how overpowered a unit it is in terms of realism.

SHHH! ;p

You are probably right... but at least we would have the opportunity to do it haha

Yeah that could really powerhouse them in the early game if they get that wheat right off the bat. You could make it come in later, say about 1000AD...

Not gonna make this a definitive statement, but arent the modern Turks descended from tribes that originated in the mongolian steppes?

After I play as Brits I am gonna try out the Mongols... see what Russia can do to stop the Golden Horde ;p

The Mangudai seems like it will be able to put some major hurt on the eastern europeans.

Rhye, could I get a list of all the UUs? I'd like to look at 'em.

After I play as Brits I am gonna try out the Mongols... see what Russia can do to stop the Golden Horde ;pThe Mongols are tough, trust me. The only real choice you have is to rush China and Korea into the ground and hope your scout reaches Europe before you fall too far back in tech. I'm sure they can be done, but after three attempts at a good Mongol game, I know it isn't gonna be easy.

Any chance for doing meaningful testing is being destroyed by the bug that gives some of the AI runaway amounts of money. I'm trying to playtest as Greece and in the mid ancient era several Euro civs have 2000+ gold banked and seem to be making 100+ gold per turn. This makes it almost impossible to accomplish anything because all of the AI can buy endless military alliances against me and each other.

This issue has been a nuisance in the past but seems especially bad in the last 2 patches.

I had the Mongols rush me once as China. They took Bejing with a surprise attack!

I quit in disgust, but now have a greater appreciation for the power of their UU! Its just so damn fast!

Yeah the rate caps seem to have forced civs to gain SLs of dough! Its getting pretty ridiculous! Inflation is going out of control! ;p

The nineteenth century was a time of many great inventions and thoughts. The invention of the steamboat caused a network of rivers to spring up. Cyrus McCormick invented the McCormick Raper, which did the work of a hundred men. Samuel Morse invented a code for telepathy. Louis Pastuer discovered a cure for rabbis. Charles Darwin was a naturailst who wrote the "Organ of the Species". Madman Curie discovered radium. And Karl Marx became one of the Marx Brothers.

???

HAHAHAHA! You almost slipped that one by me! ;p

Oh lordly lord, the McCormick Raper? Steamboats creating rivers? HAHAHAHAHA!

what's the problem with the money? Is it because of the rate caps?

There is too much money, and yes it is because of the rate caps. I was running a surplus of 10 as china rather early on even with support caps and max possible research.

I cannot think what else it could be. I have no problem with it, as you always hear how rich the ancient peoples used to be. Later countries will be poorer because the rate caps will be higher.

OK, I've raised some caps and lowered some free units number.

Please send to my mail a save (or attach it here), I'd like to know what governments do AI choose.

hey Rhye I have found a problem. My game crashed and said:

art/units/galileo/galileo

I was very far as Austrians. I've been using thier Hussar UU very effectively.

I only know of one extremely rich nation: Greece 5000+ gold to my 2000+
The other civs have about 0-60 gold each. I'll send you my autosave right before the crash :mad:

don't worry, here's the fix to keep playing your game



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/RoCX042fix.zip


Unzip in the scenarios folder, as usual

I'm glad you decided to add the era-specific scientific leaders. I would have suggested them myself if you hadn't added them.

oh rhye, we keep you working all the time ;p

thanks!

I'm glad you decided to add the era-specific scientific leaders. I would have suggested them myself if you hadn't added them.
Wait, so if my game crashed on the Aristotle thingy (which I then promptly fixed) that means some lucky bastard got a GSL? Argh. No fair.
It's about 900AD now, and the science pace has just picked up (I'm lagging a bit behing cause the damn AI research the stuff that I'm researching a few turns ahead of me which makes my tech useless for trade.) I just finished off the Dutch (they only had Amsterdam) right after I autorzed the second French city and replaced it with two of my own. Very early on France and the Netherlands got in a very long war... They focused so much on offense that they were both (but especially the French) ripe for the picking when they signed peace - which happened to be just one turn before I finished assembling my troops for the invasion of Paris which I had been planning for a while.
Rhye, I'll send you the save if you like. I'll only play again tomorrow evening, so the save will not be overwritten anytime soon.

YAY thank you Rhye for your speedy reply! (no the rhyme wasn't inteded)

Hey I think the Pikeman--->Musketman--->Fusilier chain is messed up. Pike upgrades to Fusilier not Musket man. Musketman upgrades to fusilier as well.

Back to the game. Greece, the richest bastard in all the world is next on my hit list. Mwwwahahahahahah!! groucho Here come 30 Hussars!!! :D

EDIT: Babylon just conquered Arabia!!!!!! How crazy is that! Arabia only built one other city on its penninsula and that was conquered long ago. What should have been an easy five cities on its penninsula turned out to be utter defeat at the hands of Babylon!

Beernuts, Musketmen are in the defensive ranged infantry line, Pikemen are in the all-purpouse direct infantry line. These lines merge with the Fusilier, as they very well should.

Ok, just cheking. Also the Civpedia entry under Nationalism about Shifta is not finished.

On a lighter note... Greece is mine!!! AHAHAHAHAH! I am done with that game for the night. Score so far:483 on turn 152. I would say that the Austrians are very good in this mod. I was able to grab ALL christian wonders and 1 pagan wonder. It worked out ggggrrreat.

Hi, I downloaded the latest version, it seems the art for the ancient settler has not been included. Is there anywhere I can download this? The scenario will not open. settDefault.flc seems to be the file that is missing.

David

I just realized a huge problem with the new naval movement:

Magellan's is completely and totally worthless.

Maybe the tech rate should be adjusted a little.

Emperor level
England
North America discovered in 1080
Iroquois and Americans contacted in 1090

Also the Civpedia entry under Nationalism about Shifta is not finished.


It will remain that wait until someone takes this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=102248) into consideration

I just realized a huge problem with the new naval movement:

Magellan's is completely and totally worthless.

It is valuable only for some kind of ships (galley, galleass, privateer)

Romans can build Junk ;)

Hi, I downloaded the latest version, it seems the art for the ancient settler has not been included. Is there anywhere I can download this? The scenario will not open. settDefault.flc seems to be the file that is missing.

David

You probably have not installed everything correctly.
You must have conquests patched to 1.22

Romans can build Junk ;)

There are 2 lines of ships: oar-armed and sailing-only. The junk is the latter.

If there's a more generic name for it, let me know.

Sailboat? abcdefg (under ten characters)

You're absolutly right, I had the mod installed in Civilization III\Scenarios rather than Civilization III\Conquests\Scenarios thanks for the mod and sorry for the confusion. :blush: My first mod.

It will remain that wait until someone takes this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=102248) into consideration

You could request it in the Kinboat lottery

I think there may be a problem with France. I've now had three games as Spain, Portugal and Rome where France never builds any roads on X79 Y47. This has allowed me to sell them saltpeter for hundreds of gold per turn even though they should be able to see it in their own territory. I've never seen this happen before.

I've had the same problems with some civs having way too much gold as well. In the latest game I'm in the 1400's and Babylon has 12,000 gold!

Ethiopia still has Islam as second religion, is this by choice?

Most of the ancient religious wonders are still being built in the middle ages.

I think there may be a problem with France. I've now had three games as Spain, Portugal and Rome where France never builds any roads on X79 Y47. This has allowed me to sell them saltpeter for hundreds of gold per turn even though they should be able to see it in their own territory. I've never seen this happen before.


Very strange! I'll see what I can do.


I've had the same problems with some civs having way too much gold as well. In the latest game I'm in the 1400's and Babylon has 12,000 gold!


I've raised the caps and lowered the number of free units for some governments. I hope it will be better from now on.


Ethiopia still has Islam as second religion, is this by choice?


No, it has Christianity. It was the wrong pedia.


Most of the ancient religious wonders are still being built in the middle ages.

I saw that. And middle ages wonders are built very late. Being optional and non-tradeable techs, religious techs spread slowly. I'll try to reduce some cost.

I found a quick way of fixing vertical offsets of the unit. This is true luck: I managed the correct all the new units that had problem in 3 hours!

Then, I tried to let a test game go on its own.
Germany did the Anschluss very early and kept expanding in all the directions. During 19th and 20th Century instead a coalition of Spain, England and Russia occupied the whole huge German empire!

Apart from that, I noticed that:
- some wonders come too late
- the distribution of the wonders is good
- there are few docks and harbors built. I'm thinking of the possibility of merging them back together
- Oligarchic republic is still AI's first choice until industrial, but there are many exceptions
-tech rate seems quite good now (at least until 1500). America was discovered around
- max amount of gold is 2800 (America)
- France has built a road on the saltpeter
- some civs need tuning

France has built a road on the saltpeterCheers, Rhye! :)

I found a quick way of fixing vertical offsets of the unit. This is true luck: I managed the correct all the new units that had problem in 3 hours!
Seems a bit odd to ask now you've fixed it, but what problem do you mean?

Seems a bit odd to ask now you've fixed it, but what problem do you mean?

Have you ever seen (in other mods) the unit picture being too high or too low in the lower right box?

Have you ever seen (in other mods) the unit picture being too high or too low in the lower right box?
:confused: I've seen the US civil war rifleman which doesn't seem to be centered correctly... Am I close? ;)

Hope to see Port with an off-shore empire in the game...
Quite unrealistic if not, would I say.

Rhye, maybe there should be a Islamic Republic gov't available with Islam? I don't know what exactly its stats would be, but it may warrant representation now that we've got a religion system.
Also I just thought of something... Instead of reducing anarchy times, maybe give everybody the religious trait in addition to their existing traits, strip the rel trait down to only the anarchy thingy, and then use an ERA_NONE tech to give the religious civs their advantage which can be spread out throughout the history depending on religion using the ERA_NONE tech along with the different religion techs as requirements for special techs that religious civs get.
Also, are you willing to consider my idea of using hidden resources to set up the sides for a world war? I'm willing to try and test it by making said resources appear in the middle ages and be required for some powerful unit (say, crusader or fanatic) and then playing into the middle ages to see if war breaks out properly. Has the AI been known to go to war for strat resources that it can get in no other way? I'm not sure but I think it's supposed to.

Hope to see Port with an off-shore empire in the game...
Quite unrealistic if not, would I say.
It usually depends how much Portugal and Spain harm eachother in the usual ancient age wars they get into. I've seen games where both were too weak to discover America. I think France got there first that time. o_O

Rhye, maybe there should be a Islamic Republic gov't available with Islam? I don't know what exactly its stats would be, but it may warrant representation now that we've got a religion system.
.

there's already a theocratic monarchy which can represent the caliphates etc.
I don't know exactly the difference with Islamic republic, exce