Changes sound good but I still want to lobby for a bit more diversity with techs and units.... obviously i agree with not weighing the mod down BUT as somebody who is more than a six month veteran of the Rhye series I'd like to see something new...more options.. a few more choices and I trust Rhyes judgement that what he does will work.

Be careful when tuning Iroquis.... I dont feel theyre all that crippled.

I am for modification of Guerrilla!

Also, could you make it so that scouts from, say, France cannot be seen on the Siberian Coast in... 210BC? They probably had contact with civilizations other than Japan (current game, Portugese were not going strong as I had two cities and war with everyone... I was winning until they started with swordsmen and I couldn't get iron ;p) for a long time before that.

Perhaps make them wheeled? Or if that is too much of a penalty, some other change to them? It would certainly be in keeping with the theme of prevention of globalization... maybe no scouts at start?

This may sound kind of asinine, but I would also like to lobby for the removal of Korea, and its being replaced with a Pacific Island Civ.

Historical reasons:

Korea has not been a truly independent country ever, even in the Chosun Kingdom period. It has always been subject to either foriegn occupation, invasion, or dominion.

In those beautiful (if rare) moments of independence it was extremely isolationist.

It is miniscule.

It is (to those Westerners who do not know many Koreans, as I have the good fortune to) pretty much unkown as a country even now.

On the other hand, its removal allows both China and Japan to expand more normally (no massive purple coastline where Korea randomly grabbed territory from China in the initial colonization phase) and allows the area to become a hotbed of contention.

A Southeast Asian Civ would fill a far larger gap, and would simply make more sense in terms of size. Other than a name change (and perhaps a few city name fixes, which I would be more than willing to do if it is needed) the Korean Civ would fit perfectly there.

I know I am going to get blasted for this one ;p

Disclaimer:

All statements about Korea are meant for the mod, and do not relate to my actual opinion of the place. I recognize that Korea, like many non-Western countries and cultures, has a vast wealth of history, as well as scientific and artistic achievements, that more than earn it its place as a civilization in the standard game.

Throughout history spies has had a huge impact on warfare.....historically spies and spy types have destroyed battalion after battalion... look at a suicide bomber throwing himself amongst a group of soldiers...yeah he dies but so do alot of them... on that note a single spy is IMHO the equivalent to a unit in some cases.

Regardless... the guerilla idea is good and keeping french out of siberia is great.

Hmmmm.....and what civ would you propose? I kind of like having Korea out there. Would you put the vietnamese? I dunno....I dont really like it.

Rhye, have you ever considered renaming the mod? I realized only few days ago the word play in it - before that I had just wondered about the strange order of words. :blush: :lol:

Naturally, it isn't a big deal. It could well be that most people aren't as thick as me. It's just that given the high quality of the mod, it might benefit from a more "professional" name. When a mod's name contains the name of its creator, it gives me the initial impression of a personal mod made public. :undecide:

Anyway, good job with the mod. :)

Drift->
The word Rhye's of Civilization came out after a dabate between me and Kal-El (DyP creator for anybody who doens't know). He suggested me that name (I would have never thought of that word play - I'm not native English speaker) and its abbreviation "RoC".
Now, changing the name would mean:
- find another good name that isn't banal
- contact Thunderfall and make sure he changes the name of the thread
- make sure that everybody who already know the "old brand" get ot know the new "brand"


Others->
I have a lot to study this week and I'll see what I can do. But I prefer finishing this new patch at first, then we can discuss again. Anyway, you know my position: I don't want to add a civ if I don't find good stuff (leaderhead, UU, KU) and if I'm not sure that everybody likes it. I mean, if most of you, including Iztvan, habee and the others in the first pages of this thread agree for a removal of Korea and addition of Khmer I'll consider doing that. But if I won't make somebody unhappy to make someone happy. I'm democratic :)
My personal opinion on that is I'm not very fond of Korea but not even of Indonesia or Mali or Sioux or Sumeria.

I don't know if you have noticed the questions in my post above:

- No uprisings or less barbarian camps? - I must choose between the 2 solutions, as the number of rising units cannot be under 8

- Should I remove Radio follow Conquests last patch changes?

- Some resources will appear later in the game (dyes/horses/tobacco): for example horses will appear in America during Industrial age while they are available from the beginning in the rest of the world
America and the civs with European culture group crippled in Ancient and Medieval age: thanks to a hidden resource they will reach their full strength beginning from the Renaissance
What do you think of this? I think that's a great intuition! No more discussion about horses, I can make them appear when I want, anywhere. And I can make for example Germany very weak at the beginning and become suddenly strong at half game!

- Adding a Nuclear Bomb as a bonus created with Manhattan P. can't be done: I thought of setting a 100 turns period in the editor so that it would create only once, but it seems that 100 turns are waited before building. And if I make 1 turn, it will obviously build a bomb every turn. So, is the A-bomb addition as a unit available for anyone necessary?

- Guerrilla to be modified? Remember that most of the crippled civs won't reach late industrial age and so guerrillas won't be useful for them

ABout the barbarians I really have no opinion. Ive neer had a peoblem.

ABout radio... keep it....

About resources.... great idea....though dont cripple germany and the other european civs too much... if they fall enough behind it wont really matter what new resources they get.

About the manhattan project..... I like adding thew wonder though 100 turns is indded too long and 1 turn rediculously overpowered.

About guerilla....I think you SHOULD modify them for crippled civs but add them as a second UU available ONLY to crippled civ and available before late Industrial age to help keep them in the game.

I vote fewer barbarian camps.

Remove Radio, unless it will cause serious damage to the time flow.

So you can make resouces appear when you want? Wow, that will solve many problems.

My personal opinion is that any civ should have the opportunity to make it. Crippling civs at the beginning is ok for historical accuracy but I enjoy the "what if"s. What if the Mayans rule the world, though improbable, it still should be possible.

Yea, I was wondering how you were gonna do that A-bomb thing.

And by the way, the name if fine, imho.

Here's my input:

If you're going to get rid of Korea, then get rid of America and replace it with an indigenious tribe.

Barbarian uprisings...

I'm not sure how this is hard coded but I would be willing to bet that more often than not they occur close to the player. At least in the games I play it seems like massive uprisings always occur near my poorly defended cities or along my flanks. The timing of these uprisings sometimes occur while I'm at war. This is in all games of Civ, not just this mod.

Removal of uprisings will make the camps easy pickings but the game will run faster. It will also mean less chances for free unit promotion. The downside is it will allow for easier expansion. My vote is to leave it as is.

Instead of removing the Radio tech, rename it to Radar since that is what it really represents. I've always wondered why they called it radio. It is usually one of the last techs that I research in the Industrial age and it just seems out of place historically for the invention of radio.

I like the changes proposed to resources.

I don't think the A-bomb is necessary. ICBMs come into play very quickly.

I like the idea of crippling/enhancing civs based on history. Does this affect the player if he/she is playing one of these civs? It's worth a try as long as it doesn't affect the player. I was under the impression that the GA was supposed to simulate this depending on civ traits.

I'm not sure about the guerilla. I haven't noticed anything odd or out of place with this unit as the mod or game is now.

I'm against removing airlift capability for modern armor. How do you think America's modern armor gets overseas? We have a plane called the C-5 transport which does this quite well.

The object of this game is to have the ability to project power from a military standpoint. Removing the airlift capability will be ahistorical. That would be almost as bad as removing the instant move bonus from a railroad.

Now I will have to conduct multiple naval invasions? A turn is 2 years long in the end portion of this mod right? You mean to tell me that its going to take 4 years to cross the Atlantic with 8 tanks via transport?

Realistically that's not right and you should also be able to transport via air or water to any spot on the map in a 1-2 year span.

Thanks!!
Now, let me explain some of the matters:

1) With crippling Europeans at the beginning I mean that Germany, France, England, Spain, Portugal, Austria and Holland have a LM grassland instead of a grassland. But I place an invisible resource with no name that adds +1 food or anything I want and make it appear for example around 1400 (with Astronomy).
With this trick it is possible to make tobacco appear in Europe after 1500 while it is in America at the beginning: I'll make a resource with the tobacco icon called "tobacco " with that space.

2)Unfortunately I can't do what I wanted - an A-bomb produced only once for the one who builds M.P. It seems that I'll need to add it normally in the tech tree, but I need to change its stats from the WWII conquest settings to be more balanced, considered that it should became obsolete with tactical nuke OR ICBM (don't know which one of the two)

3) Barbarians without uprisings mean less units around, but means easier expansion and more cities around, too. Anyway it was important to stop camps appearing, and I hope that it's done with "no barbarians" setting. I hope.

4) I agree that this mod needs a UU for american and african civs, but moving THAT guerrilla unit earlier is wrong. The word "Guerrilla" was invented during Napoleonic empire occupation of Spain. That would need a different unit graphics, a sort of bandit. And what before Nationalism? Has ever been a sort of resistance in occupied nations? In that case, what unit would be needed?

5) I didn't know that mod. armor airlift was possible. I had read that Abrahms is difficult to be moved around. But probably you're (el-oso) right

Well if you are going to add a "bandit" type guerilla you might want to look at some of the other "conquest" scenarios and see if there is something in there.

Maybe you could have two guerillas in that case. An earlier, weaker version and the modern version. The one in Civ looks similar to a Viet Cong or Central American soldier.

Here is information on the C5 Galaxy. (http://www.lmaeronautics.com/products/airmobility/c5/)

It can carry 6 apache helicopters or 2 M1A1 Abrahms. It is a very large airplane.

Getting rid of America is fine... IF you can think of a way to bring them into the game later on. Otherwise, they need to stay. They are quite clearly an essential civ for the better part of the game, and are just weird for the beginning.

That is not what the debate is about

The problem with Korea is that it simply is making itself a little twit of a civ in the scenario by splitting up China and Mongolia, and grabbing WAYY more territory than it should.

How about cutting them off from the mainland, and making their primary city a not coastal one? We could keep them and still have a civ there, but one that would be significantly less likely to "steal" territory.

How does that sound?

I personally would recommend taking a few camps out of South America, simply because they do not get dealt with until late in the game when barbarians are irrelevant (and stupidly annoying) anyway. Unless you are playing as the ONLY civ that can build there right at the beginning, the Inca.

Take out radio, for patch reasons.

Bring back MA airlift, because there is already enough unreality that a little more will not hurt. Yes, it is possible to airlift a few tanks in real life, but it is simply impossible to airlift an entire division, which is what it means in the game. That is why America tried so hard to get an ROP deal with Turkey at the start of the Iraq war!

More later, gotta go to class!

Gueriallas are being modified to help keep disadvantaged civs in the game in the industrial and modern era. Resources will affect human players but its only right. Human players should not get advanteges. We already whoop on the AI left and right.

I'm against removing airlift capability for modern armor. How do you think America's modern armor gets overseas? We have a plane called the C-5 transport which does this quite well.
No, the C-5 does not transport battalions of M-1 tanks overseas with any frequency (perhaps they took ONE to Saudi Arabia for Desert Shield in 1990-91). The vast majority of tanks are shipped by ... SHIP. Prepositioned stockpiles are often used, but the logistical delays caused by mobilizing shipping and getting them where they need to be makes for long build-ups.

Originally posted by Aeon221

That is not what the debate is about


Lets see... The debate is about this. You have the opinion that the Koreans should be removed because they are unimportant and shouldn't be taking land from China or the Mongols. I'm of the opinion that America has had a great impact on world history but they really don't fit in this mod because of its heavy "old world" flavor. While we're at it, why don't we remove the Dutch and the Byzantines? In every game I've played they steal land from Russia but then again so does Rome, Germany, Austria, France, and any other European civ once the land runs dry near their capital.

I get the idea that Rhye isn't going to remove, move, or add any of the present civs to avoid disrupting it for others which I'm okay with. You know what the solution is? The next time you play you can set the game up to not include Korea and I can set it up to not include America. That way you can play the mod the way you like and I can as well. It does take a little effort to select each one but then its customized how you like it.

Originally posted by Aeon221

Bring back MA airlift, because there is already enough unreality that a little more will not hurt. Yes, it is possible to airlift a few tanks in real life, but it is simply impossible to airlift an entire division, which is what it means in the game. That is why America tried so hard to get an ROP deal with Turkey at the start of the Iraq war!


First off its not unrealistic. The USAF has plenty of C-5 Galaxys at its disposal. I guess a lot of it depends on how you think of a unit in game turns. I can't find data anywhere that specifically states how large in manpower a unit is. If you know where access to this information I'd like to see it. I find it hard to believe that a carrier or battleship unit represent a division of each.

As technology progresses you need less materials and manpower to accomplish the end goal. I don't think of a Modern Armor unit as an entire division but more like a company (12-16) of tanks. It's much easier to accept it in these in terms of production and mobility. Another thing to keep in mind is that a division has many more support personnel accompanying it than just combat units.

I can also think of many other reasons for a ROP with Turkey other than an armored invasion.

First, NATO has air force bases there and it would have been much easier to launch air strikes from the land than a carrier task force in the Med or the Gulf.

Secondly, I'm not aware of an armored division being stationed in Turkey. Please provide me with data to prove this if I'm wrong.

Thirdly, the armor would have almost as far to go to get to Turkey as it did to get to Kuwait.

It wasn't because we lack the capability to airlift tanks. I'm pretty confident that if the need arises, the USA can airlift a brigade or division to anywhere in the world in a week whether or not it includes M1A1 tanks. That is well within the timeframe of one turn and the spirit of the game.

Originally posted by Jaybe
No, the C-5 does not transport battalions of M-1 tanks overseas with any frequency (perhaps they took ONE to Saudi Arabia for Desert Shield in 1990-91). The vast majority of tanks are shipped by ... SHIP. Prepositioned stockpiles are often used, but the logistical delays caused by mobilizing shipping and getting them where they need to be makes for long build-ups.

Can a transport ship move from lets say San Francisco or Washington DC in one turn? (2 years in game time). I think most of us would be screaming if a ship could move that fast in game turns.

I have yet to figure out how to do this without the ship hopping glitch.

Why do you insist on using WW2 logistical tactics in the modern era?

What you're saying here is that the USA doens't have the capability in this day and age to project its power quickly via air and I couldn't disagree with you more on this.

I will provide you with the data you requested when I get back from sports if it is really necessary. If you were keeping up with current events a couple of years ago, you would remember the large aid package being offered to Turkey to allow certain divisions of the US Army to be allowed to land there and from there invade Iraq.

They refused, forcing us to concentrate on a single front.

And yes, I am well aware of the air bases, etc. in Turkey. I find it essential to keep up with such data with the career I am planning. However, since the argument was about MA airlift, it is clear that such information is entirely irrelevant.

Keep the MA Airlift, unless someone decides to make a realistic naval unit movement system...

I agree that that me simply not putting Korea (oops, had America before) into a game is an option, and that the stealing of land happens with a lot of other civs. You will recall that there are measures being taken to prevent that (in fact, I feel that I am correct in saying that this mod was in part an attempt to combat such unrealistic development).

The complaint about Korea is that it prevents other civs from properly developing, and that leaving it in results in a massive hole in South East Asia.

I will hunt around for some quality leaderheads etc, and if they are not available I will start working on a city and leader list for myself. I LIKE playing as Korea, but it engages in entirely unreasonable activity.

There needs to be a way to add triggers so that you can make things (like the American Revolution) happen. And yes, I know that this comment is cliche. That does not make it any less relevant.

More whining later!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I need some assistance...I loaded and unzipped both files, but I keep getting the error message: Missing entry in Text/PediaIcons.txt: ICON_BLDG_Holy_War. The entry exists in the text message, so I don't know what went wrong.

Originally posted by Aeon221
I will provide you with the data you requested when I get back from sports if it is really necessary. If you were keeping up with current events a couple of years ago, you would remember the large aid package being offered to Turkey to allow certain divisions of the US Army to be allowed to land there and from there invade Iraq.

They refused, forcing us to concentrate on a single front.

And yes, I am well aware of the air bases, etc. in Turkey. I find it essential to keep up with such data with the career I am planning. However, since the argument was about MA airlift, it is clear that such information is entirely irrelevant.


I don't want you to waste your time gathering data since you missed my point. I'm fully aware of the events that have taken place in my lifetime (thanks for the unnecessary slam).

My point was countering your first statement indicating the sole reason for achieving a ROP with Turkey was because it is not within the capability of the USA to use the USAF to transport MA. I may have misunderstood you there because I was assuming that you meant we already had a division of MA in Turkey. From these last statements its obvious that wasn't your first point but then why did you bring it up in the first place? (The MA still has to get there somehow)

The data that is really necessary is something from Firaxis indicating unit size since that seems to be our main issue here. How many ships does a carrier represent? I would assume one carrier or battleship. Cruisers maybe a couple ships as well as destroyers and transports. I would assume using the above formula that a plane unit represents roughly 15 planes being that a carrier can carry approximately 60 of them. I just apply this same sense of scale to other units like MA. There isn't any logic to think of one MA unit of being 300 + tanks. Even with that logic applied, its not unrealistic for ONE transport aircraft to ferry them to an airbase on the other side of the world in a one or two year time span. Don't forget the time scale while you're air dropping units. We're not talking a month here but 24 of them which is ample time.

I see the real problem here!

I am overreacting!

SORRY!!

I have always thought of units as divisions simply because it makes more sense in my head. For me, it is a carrier group, and the number of planes is correspondingly large. That is how I mentally deal with the hit point bar. You have obviously rationalized it in a different way.

Either way, it does not matter as we both want the airlift in! ;p

@NHS:

Did you unzip it to the Conquests Scenario folder?

Did you download and install the patch?

Rhye the all knowing, for whose attention we vie, will know the real problem, but those are the standard questions!

Originally posted by Rhye
Adding a Nuclear Bomb as a bonus created with Manhattan P. can't be done: I thought of setting a 100 turns period in the editor so that it would create only once, but it seems that 100 turns are waited before building. And if I make 1 turn, it will obviously build a bomb every turn. So, is the A-bomb addition as a unit available for anyone necessary?


Could you make the Manhattan Project obselete with a required 4-turn tech that leads to all other techs, then give it a 3-turn production time?

I can try, but will it be possible to build t. nukes and ICBMs after it becomes obsolete?

Originally posted by nighthidesnot
I need some assistance...I loaded and unzipped both files, but I keep getting the error message: Missing entry in Text/PediaIcons.txt: ICON_BLDG_Holy_War. The entry exists in the text message, so I don't know what went wrong.

- Does this happen when you start a new game or when you load somebody else's savegame?

- What version of Conquests are you using?

Smart idea, although knowing the AI it would research or trade for the obseletion tech before it had built the Manhattan Project, rendering it useless. But it's something to think about...

Yeah that is a good idea.... and I love the bickering going on here....great arguments both for and against airlifting tanks. I do believe we have the capacity to airlift tanks in modern day but I wouldnt swear my life on it.

I guess putting an LM grassland would probably work....again, dont cripple them too much....they wont recover.

Originally posted by Eddiit
Yeah that is a good idea.... and I love the bickering going on here....great arguments both for and against airlifting tanks. I do believe we have the capacity to airlift tanks in modern day but I wouldnt swear my life on it.

If I came across as bickering, I apologize. :(

I just have this unexplainable passion for this type of drastic gameplay change. I've looked for many answers to the number of C-5's in the US's arsenal but I think most of that information is classified. My reasoning is why else build an aircraft that large if it wasn't intended for practical use. I would imagine that we built at least 50 of them. They've been in service for quite some time.

Not many of us are privy to the information as to how we built up our forces for both Gulf Wars but I think its safe to assume that both the navy and airforce are used extensively for this purpose.

In the end each of us has access to the editor and can customize Rhye's hard work to our own liking.

Does this happen when you start a new game or when you load somebody else's savegame?

It happened each time I tried to start a new game.

- What version of Conquests are you using?

I think I'm playing version 1 of Conquests. I don't recall downloading any patches. Accordingly, I will download the patches through 1.22 to see if that fixes the problem.

I've spent nearly every free minute for the last 2 and a half weeks playing RoC, and I've created this here account just so I could show my appreciation for what an outstanding mod this is. Great job, Rhye. Very well thought-out, balanced, and it was just unspeakably cool to play Civ on a real earth map with so many historical accuracies. I liked your general strategy of not being too heavy-handed with rules changes so that we still feel like we're playing civ and not some other game. The small tweak you made with the hussars, flintlock infantry, riflemen, and cavalry was very good - it kept cavalry for being too good for too long and made conquest somewhat harder. The 8 turn minimum for techs also made for a very different, but interesting, game experience.

So with all of my gushing out of the way, let me make a few small suggestions:

I think the Egyptian chariot UU should also ignore the desert movement penalty if all of the other arabian UU's do. It would help Egypt be a force in the very early game when they were historically most powerful.

The Hussar not upgrading to the Cavalry and having the same cost seems silly to me. They seem like two of the most similar units of the game. Maybe make cavalry cost 10 more so the upgrade isn't free?

With the 8 turn technology minimum, pop-rushing governments seem really undesirable, since you need something to do with all of your extra money. Throughout most of my game my science rate was so low that I was taking in 200+ gold per turn, and Communism would have looked good except that I'd have almost nothing to do with all that money, so I stayed with Monarchy the whole time. I'd suggest either changing Communism and Fascism to allow cash-rushing, or make two alternative governments, say Socialism and Police State, which you get at the same time as Communism and Fascism respectively, that allow cash-rushing.

I liked that you extended the modern era by putting the last spaceship piece with Robotics. The space race victory is too easy, and because of this the modern era is almost always too short. There is typically very little chance to play with modern combat. I'd suggest adding a new technology, say Space Colonization, that requires all of the end-of-the-line modern techs as prerequisites, which is required for construction of ALL the the spaceship parts. The building of a great big spaceship to colonize another galaxy is not something that is happening today, in modern times, but is rather something that could happen in the near future. This change would better reflect those realities. But I'd understand if it would change the game too much for the spirit of this mod.

My thoughts on the things you are looking for feedback on:

I like the idea of Guerrillas as weaker units that can move through jungles (and mountains?). This opens up new strategies and new decisions. I'm less excited about making them a special unit that helps keep the crippled civs alive. It seems that without any extra help, some crippled civs die and others eke out a meager existence, and that is as it should be.

As far as Manhattan Project and nukes and atom bombs, I've never really played with nukes so I don't have an opinion. The space race always comes, or I conquer the world with advanced tanks before this happens. I'm a regent/monarch player, maybe nukes are more important at higher levels?

I think the guerillas going to weak civs really does stick to the spirit of the game...even in modern day weak nations have guys with guns that use guerilla tactics as their main strategy. On that note I put all my backing behind butching up the crippled civs so they can have a moderate impact. Having a guerialla that they can build will really really help keep them in the mix a little...but you dont have to worry, your tanks will still roll through them.

Youre right about the egytians...they do need more oomph in the ancient era.

Yay, glad to see people like at least one of my ideas!

;p

Also, China moves from a 4/3/3 Rider to a 5/3/2 Hussar, which is (IMHO) a worse unit. Perhaps China should get a 5/3/3 Rider that does not upgrade. Also a price tag increase would be a good idea for it too, but I do not know enough about it to make any concrete suggestion.

Although this would give China a big advantage in the EM section, you could just take Cavalry away from them too, leaving them with a weaker attacker than the other civs.

Rider should remain in its current place in the tech tree, because there is no real good reason to move it.

Also, I tried making scouts wheeled (to decrease the number of Europeans finding Asia), but was still discovered by a warrior in 110 AD (or maybe BC... cannot remember since it is 1650).

I also locked Korea into its peninsula with a few marshes; this causes it to ignore mainland Asia and concentrate on developing a colonial empire (thereby putting it into competition with Japan).

It also makes a landward invasion impossible for a non-human player (I waited till I had riders, then cut a road through the swamps with a 20+ stack... short fight ;p).

I do not know if you think this is a good thing or a bad, but I personally think it solves all of my issues (makes it so that China develops into a strong empire, Korea does not try to create a worthless Siberian empire, and Japan and Korea are enemies).

Only bad part was that Korea stockpiled settlers until it got Map Making, so it was not a very efficient builder. Once it got the tech, it was able to rapidly move out with a galley fleet and establish a cute little empire that managed to defend itself rather well.

Mongolia is badly off at the start. I assume that Rhye knows this, and that it was on purpose, but the terrain is really ugly and Mongolia never managed to field much of an army. Also, there is this one square inside a ring of mountains that the computer decided to put a city in. I had to circle the whole stupid thing to find the entrance. Perhaps a few more holes could be put into it?

France conquered all of Europe, and would have gotten Russia had I not decided to step into it. As it was, I distracted them long enough for Russia to pull out of it.

Anyone who manages to get all of Europe is insanely strong! That territory is amazing!

Yes....Europe is supposed to be strong...France actually conquered it? That's definetly a first...they usually get trounced by germany.... good idea with china and with Korea...I like it...Rhye should try it.

Originally posted by SpeedyKQ
I've spent nearly every free minute for the last 2 and a half weeks playing RoC, and I've created this here account just so I could show my appreciation for what an outstanding mod this is.

Thank you. Vote please!

Originally posted by SpeedyKQ
I think the Egyptian chariot UU should also ignore the desert movement penalty if all of the other arabian UU's do. It would help Egypt be a force in the very early game when they were historically most powerful.

Right. It's done for next patch

Originally posted by SpeedyKQ
The Hussar not upgrading to the Cavalry and having the same cost seems silly to me. They seem like two of the most similar units of the game. Maybe make cavalry cost 10 more so the upgrade isn't free?

Free upgrade? Hussars shouldn't upgrade to Cavalry, because they're a different kind of cavalry (light). Then, raising the cost of Cavalry would mean raising its attack and Cossacks attack. But in that case Sipahi becomes useless. So, it's a very difficult matter.

Originally posted by SpeedyKQ
I liked that you extended the modern era by putting the last spaceship piece with Robotics.?

? I didn't change anything from the standard settings here

This is the situation of patch v2.2:
already done:
- Scouts and explorers now can be airlifted but can't pillage
- Scouts now have movement 1 to make globalization more slow. They still aren't wheeled, so they can cross mountains, jungles and marshes
- Shifta, Keshik, War Chariot and Ansar Warrior now ignore desert movement cost
- Modern paratroopers no longer need rubber
- Riflemen now require saltpeter
- Updated civilopedia and corrected some entries
- Reduced 'build never' penalties for some crippled civs
- Ocean movement costs 2; all units ignore its cost except galley and dromon
- Galley and dromon don't ignore sea movement cost anymore (otherwise they could cross the Bering strait)
- Some new terrain graphics: lighter rivers and less grey mountains
- SS Engine and Exterior casing cost 48
- Tuned max eruption period (24000 years)
- Tuned plagues earliest start and grace period
- "No barbarians" activity: camps shouldn't appear now
- Redistributed barbarian camps in South America. Now there are less around but in strategical position, in order to stop Incan expansion
- Removed some camps in North America, Vietnam and Congo
- Removed jungle tiles that obstructed passage in India, Congo, Peru and central America
- Removed a plateau tile that obstructed passage in Mongolia
- Tuned Carthaginian, Russian and Zulu strength
- Added coal and gold in Japan
- America, France, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, England, Russia, Spain and Portugal have been made weaker in Ancient and Medieval age: thanks to a hidden resource they will reach their full strength beginning from the Renaissance
- Removed a horse and some oasis in Arabia, substituted with an invisible +1 commerce, +1 food resource
- Added an invisible +1 commerce resource next to Egypt, China, Japan, Korea, Byzantium, Carthage, Russia and Netherlands
- Currency cost decreased to 14; Monarchy cost decreased to 12

to do:
New irrigations graphics
Radio removed to follow Conquests last patch changes
Some resources will appear later in the game (dyes/horses/tobacco): for example horses will appear in America during Industrial age while they are available from the beginning in the rest of the world
Swap internally Fission and Rocketry (no effect in the tech tree: the only effect is that AI researches Fission first and the Manhattan Project comes earlier the game)
Add a Nuclear Bomb unit available with Fission or Manhattan Project?
Block Korean passage to mainland?
Guerrilla to be modified?





When there is no more need of patches, I'll consider adding a Khmer or Songhai civ with a separate patch. This means that I could do a patch to download separately for who wants a biq and the files with the new civ.
This is only a thought, don't take this as a promise!!!!

Rhye, you are making too much progress TOO FAST! ;) I am only half-way through my game (turnwise). I would like to finish it before you put out another version. :lol:

Silly thought: Make tobacco a luxury (so there would be 9 of them). Having more than 8 lux has no additional affect on a civ, but it would give the american civs something to do (and even export, perhaps). I have considered it before, but never seriously enough to implement it.

I think you should try the idea of blocking korea into the mainland and see how that goes.

Yes on the guerilla.

Also, China moves from a 4/3/3 Rider to a 5/3/2 Hussar, which is (IMHO) a worse unit. Perhaps China should get a 5/3/3 Rider that does not upgrade. Also a price tag increase would be a good idea for it too, but I do not know enough about it to make any concrete suggestion.

Although this would give China a big advantage in the EM section, you could just take Cavalry away from them too, leaving them with a weaker attacker than the other civs.

Rider should remain in its current place in the tech tree, because there is no real good reason to move it.

Just a repeat, as no one has noticed it yet ;p

I may move the upgrade path for knights and similar to cavalry instead of hussar.
It makes sense because in this way heavy cavalry would upgrade to another heavy cavalry. But it will cause having both Hussars and Knights around

That is ok, because the time period is really close for them.

Poland had Hussars in the late 16th, and Knights really started to go out of fashion around then. The Hussar does predate the Cavalry used in Civ, so it is probably a good thing that Knights and Hussars co-exist.

***

I had a brainstorm yesterday, but wanted it to sit for a bit.

What if:

-Settlers were made slightly less expensive (either pop or shield) for certain Civs famous for having large empires (Russia, China, England, America, Dutch, France, Spain, Portugal) through settlement, and more expensive for other civs famous for having gained theirs by conquest (Germany, France, Mongols, Turks, Romans). Only problem is that the continentals will simply use this to expand into Siberia... unless... It is made impossible to travel into Siberia! Not travel while in it, only into it, especially for a European Civ. The only road through the Urals (one of the most difficult to cross mountain ranges in the world) would have to be preplaced, and near Moscow (IE: inside its cultural expansion range) to allow the Russians to create a Siberian Empire.

-Tundra were to become impassable terrain! Its not like its worth anything, and it causes the Artificial Idiots to go on megacrusades of worthlessness!

-Some of the desert tileswere to become impassable without roads as well, simply to make them even more formidable barriers (I personally would put a rule of thumb for deep desert as any desert tile that is two tiles removed from a productive tile). It is simply ridiculous that SoD can cross the Gobi Desert without any effort OR roads.

Also, I love using the fact that I am human to take advantage of the computer. I cut a road through the Himalayas and rushed the Indians from the rear with three cav armies and a 20+stack of Riders. Even better than the Korean War! ;p

One last blurb:

The Dutch should also be cut off from the mainland (Ardennes could become impassable, and perhaps a few marshland tiles since it IS the Lowlands). This will cause them to be more active in the colonial world, and perhaps will even foster some very nice competition with England.

Cannot be done legitimately with the terrain options as they are, but at least I tried ;p

Also, I believe it is possible to prevent naval unit across certain squares by making those squares impassable to wheeled units, and then giving the wheeled characteristics to sea units you do not want to cross them. Not sure where I heard that, but I am pretty sure it works. May be a better idea than the movement one in keeping certain naval units out of the Bering and other sensitive areas.

This impassable terrain idea of yours is absolutely revolutionary Rhye! It makes all KINDS of things possible!

I finally voted, and admitted the truth. I will NEVER go back to Civ3Conquests, as it would be so bad without this mod! I tried playing some of my old games, and was just depressed with how bad it was after the excellence of this mod!

That is why I am constantly trying to help make it work even more perfectly!

-Move Scandinavian Capital to Baltic Coast from North Sea Coast?

-Remove Sumeria to reduce M-E burnout?

-Deserts impassable to wheeled?

-Tundra impassable to wheeled?

-Block Korea from mainland?

-Edit Guerrillas to 8/8/2 not wheeled, available to all crip civs (perhaps making it unavailable if human player... not sure if that is possible...)

-Make Urals difficult/impossible for anyone to cross w/o roads?

-Edit Chinese Rider to 5/3/3 75 shields, no upgrade?

-Remove Cav from China?

-Edit Hussar so that it is not a weaker Cavalry with the same
cost?

Figured I should bullet for easier read.

I retract my earlier statements about the Iroquoi. On the whole they are well balanced for the area. They managed to out-settle the Americans, so it looks pretty ridiculous.

I am going to start a new game as Russia to check out how the possible changes above would affect things!

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Move Scandinavian Capital to Baltic Coast from North Sea Coast?

Trondheim is where I've put it

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Remove Sumeria to reduce M-E burnout?

When the mod no longer needs patches, if I have time I'll make an optional download that removes Sumeria and includes a new civ.

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Deserts impassable to wheeled?

-Tundra impassable to wheeled?


I'm not sure how it would work. I fear that it would cause sending workers in exploration and nasty tricks like hiding workers where the enemy can't reach.
Well, forbidding desert may be realistic and make communications more difficult between far east and Europe. But have you considered the damage caused to Arabia, Carthage and Mongolia?

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Block Korea from mainland?

I still have to try this: I'll let you know. I won't do with Netherlands, as they're quite closed and I can't go inventing new mountains o marshes

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Edit Guerrillas to 8/8/2 not wheeled, available to all crip civs (perhaps making it unavailable if human player... not sure if that is possible...)

The problem here is that none of the crippled civs will ever reach Repleaceable parts. The matter isn't simple.

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Make Urals difficult/impossible for anyone to cross w/o roads?

They would pass under, near the Caspius

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Tundra were to become impassable terrain! Its not like its worth anything, and it causes the Artificial Idiots to go on megacrusades of worthlessness!

Megacrusades versus what? Are you refering to barbarian camps? In that case, I hope that with "no barbarians", no camps will be created there

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Edit Chinese Rider to 5/3/3 75 shields, no upgrade?
-Remove Cav from China?
-Edit Hussar so that it is not a weaker Cavalry with the same
cost?

I think that the change to the upgrade path will work pretty well.

Originally posted by Aeon221
I retract my earlier statements about the Iroquoi.

I only removed their most close barbarian camp

Originally posted by Aeon221
I am going to start a new game as Russia to check out how the possible changes above would affect things!

Russia is quite weak. I've made it stronger in next patch

Originally posted by Aeon221
May be a better idea than the movement one in keeping certain naval units out of the Bering and other sensitive areas.

Unfortunately you can't set impassable only the LM terrain: if you set LM sea impassable you must set sea, too. So it can't be done. But instead you can change the movement cost for LM to be different from standard. And in fact the Bering strait works in this way: galleys will sink

Originally posted by Aeon221
Settlers were made slightly less expensive

No, that would slow down the game a lot. And you would see cities coming out like mushrooms. In a 170x170 world, mostly with forbidden-founding areas, you must consider not to populate it entirely at the beginning

Hmmm...I honestly dont want sumeria removed...... but thats just me.

Originally posted by Rhye
When the mod no longer needs patches, if I have time I'll make an optional download that removes Sumeria and includes a new civ.

I know, I keep putting that one out there because I sincerely believe that it should be done. Four capitals sharing squares is a bit ridiculous. Again, I get the point! ;p

In the games I have played so far, damage to Arabia and Carthage is minimal to none. I thought of that right away, seeing as they are heavily desert. Both were protected and built up a few nice cities, and then began a massive colonial program as soon as they got mapmaking

Mongolia is screwed from the start anyway, but I will look into it.

Russia is superweak! I was unable to get a decent start with them (overrun by AI settlers and in a war that would likely have gone badly before I got my fourth city down). Glad to hear that they are stronger now. However, the changes to the Urals had the immediate effect of preventing all AI incursions to Siberia. I have a feeling that a less agressive AI (who gets better deals from his friends, the other AI) will do better than I did with the Russians as they are, simply because the AI will not freak out when cities are blooped into land that it has claimed.

Also, you could make an optional tech that is basically unresearchable for non-crip civs and put Guerrillas there. You could even call it Guerrilla Warfare!

Noticed that the French (and other expansionist groups in Europe) typically get a mega-bonus from the goody huts liberally scattered in the area. Perhaps taking away the expansionist trait from a few of them might be a good idea in the interest of preventing the free settlers that the French seem to be getting with alarming regularity.

Yeah I like the Guerilla Warfare tech idea. Only crippled civs will get the chance to research it.

Question: Has anyone else seen the Portugese using the Dutch UU?

1-> How do you make a tech only reseachable by someone? Are you sure that this can be done?

2-> Korea is very weak with closed passage. I'll try again with a little better starting location and "build often" naval units checked

3-> A question: 1) have you ever seen AI using nukes? 2) does ever AI begin a nuclear war?



Originally posted by Aeon221
Question: Has anyone else seen the Portugese using the Dutch UU?

No. Is it a bug?

Might be...

I will check the editor again to be sure... it could just be something i fudged with!

Also, is ethiopia supposed to be unable to build any units? Or perhaps that is also something I accidentally messed up... Anyway, it seems like some strange things may have happened to my version... regardless

I have started playing the game in debug as the Zulu so as to better understand the things happening, which is how I caught most of these little anomalies.

What you can do is set the guerilla as a second UU for only weak civs and make it a relativeley early tech for them (early industrial).

Something I noticed in Europe that may need to be changed.

It seems that the only two deposits of iron in western europe are right next to one another. Whoever gets a city on the Ruhr valley immediately uses it to wipe out all opponents. I did this myself as Germany; there is simply nothing the French or Dutch can do, and when they fall the Germans have enough might to crush the rest of Europe as well. The French have done the same thing, and it is even possible that the Dutch could do it (although less likely, as they are not really in an optimal position for mass production of swordsmen).

Although this is true to life, it utterly unbalances the game and destroys an integral sense of realism, in that Germany and France are supposed to be basically on par. Perhaps another source of iron should be placed somewhere in the area, near both of the two major civs (France and Germany). I am not overly concerned about the Dutch being overrun, as most of the time they manage to use diplomacy to keep themselves safe (in the games I have seen, although not one where I played a major European power).

Also, by making deserts and tundra impassable, I got excellent results so far! It forces a lot of historically naval civs (like Carthage and the Arabians, who as a culture did have a major naval presence in the Indian ocean before the arrival of Europeans) to actually build boats and start settling. Also makes the coast of Africa far more interesting to the computer, as the computer is forced to sail along it to create basically trading posts. Would it be a good idea to make it impossible to settle within the congo area, and make it so that you could only move units along the coast (would allow/force more boat usage in colonizing more territory, thus giving the navy a yet more realistic role in the development of colonies).

It also kept the Europeans out of asia proper!!! I closed the Urals (except for one passage, where I put a barbarian tribe with a barricade), which easily protected itself until the Euros started moving in with Knights and Medieval Infantry. Russia was able to plop a city right in the middle of it, so it got to settle all of that area left alone by Mongolia.

Suggestions:

-Locked wars between groups that were traditionally enemies (China vs Mongolia, Americans vs Iroquois, Carthage vs Rome?, Greece vs Persia?) in order to create more early violence and to regain the feeling of raiders and random senseless violence. (have not tested or tried)

-Make tundra and deserts impassable to wheeled

-Make scouts wheeled (but leave them their two movement)

-Add build often naval to more civs (Korea, Carthage, Arabia) so that they will be better able to build colonial empires

I REALLY like Edd's idea about making the Guerrilla the 2nd UU of the crip civs. To make certain that they are not used by humans, you could make them non-playable civs.

Hall meeting!

Wheeled scouts is a good idea....I dont like locked wars, I prefer a little randomness....the whole tundra desert idea, I dunno I really have no opinion,if it works go for it...I agree with carthage and korea having build often for navy, not so much arabia,they never really spread...I like my guerilla idea but I dont like making civs unplayable, adding the guerilla to crippled civs is just something we'll have to hope doesnt go out of control with human players, I dont think it will, the crippled civs really do suck.

About the iron thing, that's placed where it is. I'll see if I spot another location in the atlas; if I find it, I'll add it, but I can't go inventing new iron locations


Update:

Changes done:

- Scouts and explorers now can be airlifted but can't pillage
- Scouts now have movement 1 to make globalization slower. They still aren't wheeled, so they can cross mountains, jungles and marshes
- Shifta, Keshik, War Chariot and Ansar Warrior now ignore desert movement cost
- Modern paratroopers no longer need rubber
- Riflemen now require saltpeter
- Updated civilopedia and corrected some entries
- Reduced 'build never' penalties for some crippled civs
- Ocean movement costs 2; all units ignore its cost except galley and dromon
- Galley and dromon don't ignore sea movement cost anymore (otherwise they could cross the Bering strait)
- Some new terrain graphics: lighter rivers and less grey mountains
- Currency cost decreased to 14; Monarchy cost decreased to 12
- Radio removed to follow Conquests last patch changes; updated civilopedia
- SS Engine and Exterior casing cost 48
- Tuned max eruption period (24000 years)
- Tuned plagues earliest start and grace period
- "No barbarians" activity: camps shouldn't appear now, but it seems that there's a bug in Conquests, because they're still appearing.
- Redistributed barbarian camps in South America. Now there are less around but in strategical position, in order to stop Incan expansion
- Removed some camps in North America, Brazil, Vietnam, Mongolia, Australia, Afghanistan and Congo
- Removed jungle tiles that obstructed passage in India, Congo, Peru and central America
- Moved some barbarian camps towards southern passage through Uralis
- Blocked northern passages through Uralis
- Removed a plateau tile that obstructed passage in Mongolia
- Blocked Ethiopian passage to the lakes
- Tuned Carthaginian, Russian, Japanese and Zulu strength
- Added coal and gold in Japan
- War Elephant out of Knight to Cavalry upgrade path
- Upgrade path now leads Knight to Cavalry instead of Hussar
- English cities have a little darker shade of red to enhance distinction with Spanish
- Korea and Arabia will "build often" naval units
- Swapped a forest and a plain in Korea: this will make room for a city
- America, France, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, England, Russia, Spain and Portugal have been made weaker in Ancient and Medieval age: thanks to a hidden resource they will reach their full strength beginning from late Middle Ages
- Removed a horse and some oasis in Arabia, substituted with an invisible +1 commerce, +1 food resource
- Added an invisible +1 commerce resource next to Egypt, Greece, Mongolia, China, Japan, Korea, Byzantium, Carthage, Russia and Netherlands
- Added some invisible +2 commerce, +1 shields resources in the American East Coast. They will appear after Industrialization
- Dyes will appear in northern Europe only from Middle Ages
- Tobacco will appear in the old world only some turns after the discovery of America
- Cattle, sugar, wheat and wines will appear in America only some turns after the contacts with Europeans
- Horses will appear in America only at the beginning of Industrial Age
- Removed some LM tiles in North America


Still to do:

New irrigations graphics
Add a Nuclear Bomb unit available with Fission or Manhattan Project?
Block Korean passage to mainland?
Guerrilla to be modified?
Scouts wheeled with movement 2?
Tundra and desert impassable? Cheaper roads?





Also, I'd like to know if does AI ever use nukes, and if does AI begin a nuclear war without player's provocation

I have never seen the AI start a nuke war, but I have heard that it can happen.

Unlikely that it would, since they usually nuke the nuker. I think that if an AI with nukes looks close to losing it will nuke, but only if it is heavily engaged in a major war that is going really badly. This can happen without a player, but is probably more likely with one as the computer can rarely generate the right circumstances against another one.

The last four suggestions are good, but leave roads at same price! It is still possible to cut your way through the impassable areas, but it is a time consuming project as it should be. I would like the forest clearing to be a bit quicker, as it is ridiculously inconvenient and also ties up the computer rather heavily. If you keep it at its current length, could you up the number of shields recieved?

Also, there is historical precedent for the Arabians being build often naval.

Most of the major SE Asian Islands were settled by Arabs/Muslims, and they also had a rather strong presence as both traders and pirates in the area. The Barbary Coast Pirates were also Arabs (although that is the Med). But the main reason to make them BONAV is that with desert impassable it is really hard for them to get around without boats.

Carthago Deleda Est!

Im a little concerned about what making deserts impassable is going to do to the egyptians......

1 they are completely surrounded by desert and...
2 they ALWAYS build a colony near the horse in the desert to build chariots....you need to find a way to keep horses as an available resource to them...they need it.

I dont think reducing forest clearing time is good but I do agree with incresing shields gained from clearing a little bit....I dont know about the Korean thing,if they can build 2 cities on their little peninsula and get build often for navy then Im all for it...again I LOVE the guerilla for crippled civs idea and the Manhattan Project idea.

Workers are unwheeled, so they are fine in the desert (so long as it is passable to wheeled, which is what I have been trying it on)

Koreans only have room for one city (as do Arabs in the current situation) but they go for mapmaking and get the ability to colonize islands right away.

Game I am playing I decided to pump up Russia a bit (in anticipation of the patch ;p) and ended up with a monster!

When either Germany or France does not get iron, they become the '*****' civ. It is really kinda annoying to see the Germans in a beautiful position, but unable to use it because they went to the better city site and not to the iron.

Rhye, you've made it so that America gets some resources after meeting the Old World, yet you forgot to add horses to the list, horses were brought over my Spain and America has had them ever since.

He did add horses....I dont like the idea of the arabs being unable to make more than one city.....i kinda like seeing saudi arabia with its 4 cities on it....

wooo.....from now I will have some more time because I've finished studying for my exam. I'll try to make the patch available by the end of the week.

By the way, I added horses, but their appearance is postponed for historical reasons to the other resources appearing later (Europeans didn't want to teach natives riding)

ahhh, and that explains why you changed the Iriquios (sp i always mispell them) to the Tomahawk warrior!

Also, Europe is crowded, have you considered putting those civs elsewhere Australia is empty, perhaps the Aborigines, with a "boomerang warrior" with +1 movement, that WOULD be neat...

I think Austrialian aborigens aren't worth a Portuguese or Dutch civ. My goal is to balance the game even with very crowded areas.
But I've considered the release of an optional expansion pack that replaces Sumeria with Khmer

Update:

- I've decided not to close Korean passage: they don't compete with Japan for a sea colonization but get stucked in their penisula with 2 cities.

- I've decided not to forbid desert and tundra passage because of the collateral damage it causes, including major changes to the map, in order to allow plains corridors

- New irrigation graphics is done

- Everything seems now VERY balanced. The only thing I need to check is how America behaves after industrialization.

- Now I'm dealing with the Atomic Bomb. I was thinking of giving the Manhattan Project a 7 turns period of production, ending with the discover of Satellites.
I'd like to know if usually is M.P. built before or after that discover.
Furthermore, the Atomic Bomb has a different behaviour than the other nukes. Shouldn't a nuclear weapon destroy all the units in a city??

- I have not decided about guerrilla yet

Well I like the sound of what your doing...at the danger of sounding repetitive I'm again going to push for the guerialla unit for weakened civs only....

I had in idea about guerrilla.

The problem was that the guerrilla unit is useless for crippled civs, because some of the are still stuck in early middle ages in 1900.

So, the idea is splitting the chain medieval infantry->guerrilla.
I could add a "medieval militia" available with feudalism and available for only crippled civs, with 3/3/1 + ignore mov. cost + less expensive. Instead, crippled civs can't build Medieval infantry (no changes: 4/3/1 + iron), buildable only by Europeans, America, China, Japan and Ottomans.
Then, medieval militia upgrades to guerrilla (6/6/1 + ignore mov. cost + less expensive) and medieval infantry joins upgrade chain to rifleman or to infantry. Of course, guerrilla available only for crippled, while infantry's only available for the powerfuls. Unfortunately guerrilla comes a bit late (crippled civs will hardly reach repleaceable parts), but it is where it historically should be

The only problem is now finding a nice unit. I've seen the AoK militia, but I'd prefer something better.



About the nukes, it seems that they don't kill all the people in a city all the times, right? I need some answers please! Is Manhattan Project usually built before of after the discover of satellites?

It would be even better (if I find it) another unit for crippled civs to complete the upgrade path: a replacement for Musket Infantry. It could be 3/4/1 with no saltpeter and ignore movement cost

This sounds very complicated.

Perhaps as an optional patch rather than a standard?

(I know that sounds weird comin from the guy who was pushin for it the hardest, but it sounds like WAYY more of a change than I expected)

Also, your experience with Korea is an odd one. In the several maps I played in that area with those changes on, Korea never built cities on its peninsula, but instead would wait, build boats, and move out.

Regardless, them having only two cities in a tiny peninsula sounds about right historically... it is not like they ever DID compete with Japan for colonies, or with China for the Eastern Siberia region.

I noticed the same problems with map restructuring that you did when putting on the impassable terrains.

So I preplaced a few roads to areas where I wanted the AI to be able to expand into. Worked very well, especially with the Russians.

I put a road through the Urals and defended it with a Barbarian tribe, a Barbarian spearman, and a barricade. It took them until about knights and medieval infantry to break through there and begin colonization of the nearer parts of Asia.

Also took the chance and added an iron in Europe near Berlin to make the Germans more competitive (and near Paris to help the French)

I think that I will do the same thing that I did with the Urals to the Pyrenees (and yes that is the proper spelling, stare at it all of french class every day) because they were historically a difficult transit as well.

I am basically trying to force the AI to act like the RL countries did. Spain and Portugal never colonized the Caspian Sea, and neither did France or the Netherlands... although I have no idea how to keep them from it.

I believe that the nukes kill all units in the city, take the pop down by half, destroy a random number of improvements, take out all improvements in the city radius (roads and mines and whatnot) and randomly pollute a few squares.

I do not know when it is usually built, but it is pretty rare to ever see it built except by a bored human who wants to end the earth.

Simply the expected changes on guerrilla can't be done because they're useless. The solution I've said seems to be the only one, but I must find a well-made unit. Otherwise, I'll leave everything as it is.

Fantastic mod, Rhye!!! Just one question: did you disable the ability to create Armies, or did you modify the equation for a victorious elite unit to create a leader?

Just wondering, because I'm up to the 1800s, and it seems like I've had at least 200 victories with elite units (I'm not counting victories against barbarian units).

Another question for you: I'm a newbie when it comes to creating maps and scenarios, but I'm learning a little more each day. I've been pondering creating a mod based on the characters and plot lines of the novel Atlas Shrugged : Wyatt's Torch, Atlantis (Colorado), etc. May I use your mod and map as a starting point? Of course, I'll give you full credit.

If there's anybody out there who's had the same crazy idea, let me know. It might be a great deal of fun, or it could be a complete waste of time. I've noticed mods and maps of LOTR, so I think its possible. Of course, there are far fewer devotees of Ayn Rand that play Civ3 than there are Tolkien fans. I've read both LOTR and Atlas Shrugged, and thoroughly enjoyed both.

Thanks again for a great mod, Rhye!!

I didn't modify anything about equations for creating leaders.

About my map, there are 2 versions: the 180x180 that you can find following the green link in my signature, and the 170x170, used in this mod. I suggest you using the first one (available in bic, bix and biq) because the latter is very customized (new terrains types, new resources, etc.). Unless you want to import my mod totally, included the rules, the terrain, the units, the text files etc.
Probably the best option for you is use the 180 map and then import into it the aspects of this mod that you need.

I would suggest making the Guerrilla available with nationalism!

That is when the TRUE birth of Guerrilla warfare was!

Francis Marion (The Swamp Fox) was THE MAN who developed modern guerrilla warfare (and a South Carolinian, BTW!!)

If you saw The Patriot, you have a rough idea of who he was.

Anyway, make it available then! It will seem a bit out of place to start with, but by the time infantry is available it will make perfect sense.

Regardless, it would make an eggcellent unit for the game. I might attempt to implement it in just such a way, although I am not sure at what the tech limits are for the crips.

Good luck nighthidesnot (night hide snot or night hides not???)

If you want any help, I would love to assist in whatever way I can (I am learning too, but I have a good bit of experience messing with other peoples stuff. I would make my own, but I simply do not have the patience or the graphical skill)!

I know that guerrilla was invented with nationalism. But that unit uses a gun that is out of place in 1800. Anyway, bringing guerrilla back to nationalism doens't solve the problem that crippled civs won't build it: they will build medieval units, this is the reason for the need of a medieval guerrilla, possibly two of them (one armed with sword or club or anything else but without armor, and another with a gun/musket/rifle)

Originally posted by Aeon221
I would suggest making the Guerrilla available with nationalism!

That is when the TRUE birth of Guerrilla warfare was!

Francis Marion (The Swamp Fox) was THE MAN who developed modern guerrilla warfare (and a South Carolinian, BTW!!)

If you saw The Patriot, you have a rough idea of who he was.

Anyway, make it available then! It will seem a bit out of place to start with, but by the time infantry is available it will make perfect sense.

Regardless, it would make an eggcellent unit for the game. I might attempt to implement it in just such a way, although I am not sure at what the tech limits are for the crips.

Good luck nighthidesnot (night hide snot or night hides not???)

If you want any help, I would love to assist in whatever way I can (I am learning too, but I have a good bit of experience messing with other peoples stuff. I would make my own, but I simply do not have the patience or the graphical skill)!

Not to dispute the tactics used during the American revolution but there are plenty of examples of what one could classify as guerrilla warfare long before that time. I suppose you never heard of Spartacus?

I've always associated the tech, Nationalism, with the fever that was present in Europe that led to the First World War. I've noticed it usually plays out pretty close on this map to the late 1800s - early 1900s.

Well we need to figure this crippled cics thing out...have to find some way to keep them in it nominally.

Originally posted by EL_OSO
Not to dispute the tactics used during the American revolution but there are plenty of examples of what one could classify as guerrilla warfare long before that time. I suppose you never heard of Spartacus?

I've always associated the tech, Nationalism, with the fever that was present in Europe that led to the First World War. I've noticed it usually plays out pretty close on this map to the late 1800s - early 1900s.

Yes, the word nationalism means that period (late 1800s - early 1900s). But with its collocation in the civ tech tree and the units it allows, I think that the authors were thinking to the Napoleonic era, the first time when a nation was mobilized

The word guerrilla "little war" was first invented during spanish resistance those years. Before that, resistance is always existed

I got this error in the middle while I was playing. I unziped 214b were 2.0 was. Then I overwrote all the stuff like it said and put it in c3c Scenarios. Still I still keep getting this erroranyone know how to fix it ? Thx!

You need the Conquests in their folder. In this case you've probably moved or deleted Age of Discovery.
Restore it in its location or if you can't, reinstall the game

Originally posted by Rhye
Yes, the word nationalism means that period (late 1800s - early 1900s). But with its collocation in the civ tech tree and the units it allows, I think that the authors were thinking to the Napoleonic era, the first time when a nation was mobilized

The word guerrilla "little war" was first invented during spanish resistance those years. Before that, resistance is always existed

I would disagree. The rifleman is not a Napoleonic era unit and it actually fits well within the dates I described as well as the ability to sign MPP. The MPP that were present at the time is what forced the whole affair after a silly assassination. Wasn't the musket still the basic infantry weapon during the Napoleonic era? It was still standard issue for the most part here in the USA for our civil war.

Thanks for the tidbit on the word, "guerilla".

Spartacus is one of my favorite movies. I am sure that you would hesitate to dispute that Francis Marion is the father of guerrilla warfare had you read his memoirs.

Although the T'ai Kung and Ssu-ma Fa advocate tactics very similar to his, other Chinese military theorists (most of whom I am rather familiar with, and same with European ones) most others, like Wei Liao, disputed these tactics for their brutality and the random nature of resposes to them.

Francis Marion was not the first theorist to envision such tactics; he was merely the first individual in the modern world to successfully utilize them. And I will say that with absolute certainty.

If you go back and actually look at Spartacus, you will realize that not a single thing he did involved guerrilla warfare. He continued to utilize the set piece combat (stage three of Mao Tse-Tung's system) favored by the Romans.

Please do not try to lecture me on military theory. You will find that I am well versed in it, and have read all of the great theorists, from the Chinese, to the Romans, to a few memoirs of Xenophon, to Clausewitz and Machiavelli, to Mao and Swarzkopf (or however you spell the bloody man's name). I am also well versed in many other texts on combat and strategy, and I own a copy of the USMC Small Wars manual (out of print well before Vietnam sadly), and can quote verbatim from many of the texts that I have read.

My goal is a career in the military, and I have prepared myself accordingly.

Originally posted by Aeon221
Spartacus is one of my favorite movies. I am sure that you would hesitate to dispute that Francis Marion is the father of guerrilla warfare had you read his memoirs.

Although the T'ai Kung and Ssu-ma Fa advocate tactics very similar to his, other Chinese military theorists (most of whom I am rather familiar with, and same with European ones) most others, like Wei Liao, disputed these tactics for their brutality and the random nature of resposes to them.

Francis Marion was not the first theorist to envision such tactics; he was merely the first individual in the modern world to successfully utilize them. And I will say that with absolute certainty.

If you go back and actually look at Spartacus, you will realize that not a single thing he did involved guerrilla warfare. He continued to utilize the set piece combat (stage three of Mao Tse-Tung's system) favored by the Romans.

Please do not try to lecture me on military theory. You will find that I am well versed in it, and have read all of the great theorists, from the Chinese, to the Romans, to a few memoirs of Xenophon, to Clausewitz and Machiavelli, to Mao and Swarzkopf (or however you spell the bloody man's name). I am also well versed in many other texts on combat and strategy, and I own a copy of the USMC Small Wars manual (out of print well before Vietnam sadly), and can quote verbatim from many of the texts that I have read.

My goal is a career in the military, and I have prepared myself accordingly.

Websters Online defines guerrilla as such:

Main Entry: 1guer·ril·la
Variant(s): or gue·ril·la /g&-'ri-l&, ge-, g(y)i-/
Function: noun
Etymology: Spanish guerrilla, from diminutive of guerra war, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German werra strife -- more at WAR
: a person who engages in irregular warfare especially as a member of an independent unit carrying out harassment and sabotage.

You stated in your first post that the TRUE BIRTH of guerrilla warfare occurred in the American War for Independence. I would hardly call slithering down a cliffside on vines under darkness and slitting the throats of your opponent "regular warfare". I suppose pillaging and plundering the countryside doesn't qualify either. Not a single thing he did eh? The set piece combat tactics did occur later which unargueably led to the defeat of the slave revolt.

I haven't personally read Francis Marion's memoirs but have seen the Patriot. If the movie is even remotely close to the facts, I would call the tactics he used to be very similar to the above. Furthermore, I won't dispute that Mr. Marion did use guerrilla warfare tactics with the Continental Army.

Just to make this clear. I am not claiming Spartacus as the creator of guerilla tactics. It was just one example of many to dispute your opinion that Francis Marion invented it. Since when is the era that the American Revolution took place in classified as modern?

Who's lecturing who? I'm offerring healthy debate and you want to compare who has the biggest xxxx. I out grew that mindset years ago. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but some of the things you claim are debatable. I offer my sincerest apologies for aggravating you.

I wish you the best of luck in your military career.

I'm sure that Firaxis with that nationalism means the period after the franch revlution, when a new warfare was developed. The rifleman it allows seems to me the American civil war rifleman, the XIX century rifleman.
The fact that nationalism allows mobilization and draft fits well the first time when a nation (the giacobine republic) was completely at arms. (I don't know the english spelling, could it be nation-at-arms?)
To prove my words, read the civilopedia entries for nationalism and rifleman.

Otherwise, it would be completely in the wrong place. The true nationalism of end 800- beginning of 900 coincide with Imperialism (in my opinion a missing tech) and it should be after steel (after the 2nd industrial rev.) and before repleaceable parts (which allows the WWI infantry).

Anyway, what should I do?

I have three choices now:

1) Include the A-Bomb available only to the owner of Manhattan Project: produced with a 7 turns period until the discover of Satellites.
And include a (still to be found) medieval unit that requires no iron. The cheaper version of medieval infantry would be available only to crippled civs and it would be 3/3/1 with ignore mov. cost. The other civs instead will have only access to Medieval inf. (no changes: 4/3/1 + iron).
This is due to the fact that crippled civs will hardly reach industrial ge
Then, the same split will happen with repleaceable parts: infantry only for america, france, ottomans, china, etc., and guerrilla (with ignore mov. cost) only for crippled civs. In this way, if a European nation can't get rubber, it will build riflemen instead of guerrilla in defense of its cities.

1b) No added medieval unit but only split infantry/guerrilla (not much useful anyway)

2) Do none of the above, release the patch as it is (and it contains a long list of fixes) and leave the problem for a future patch

3) Include only one of the two additions

I vote 1)

I vote either 1 or 2 depending on how fast you find that medieval unit. I think the ideas in #1 are fine, but shouldn't hold things up right now. I am anxious to start testing with the changes already implemented.

2.

The other changes should be optional.

1 i like the A-bomb idea...

1

Hi Rhye!
1. Everybady use Republic in medival age, becuse Mediterranean
nations research it, and sell it for som gold....
U use the favors but please, but the 'Not allowed to Trade' flag to this tech, and every Eu civ will use Monarchy or Feudalism.
2. Becuse civs in on Eu culture grup are share many technology thay will be strong, but US is in the American culturgrup.:
- Try to put America to the Eu cultur grup
3. I vote to 2.)

I dont see the point of waiting to release this patch....all we really have left to do for this patch is figure out how to deal with the guerilla unit...its not really that much to do.

I've decided for solution #2 for these reasons:

1) AI discovers Satellites before building Manhattan Project: it would become obsolete even before starting producing bombs
2) I haven't found any user-made unit that is good for the purpose of a generic non-european light medieval infantry
3) It seems that most of you aren't convinced of the changes



I must finish the test game I'm watching. The release will be in the following days

Originally posted by habee
Hi Rhye!
1. Everybady use Republic in medival age, becuse Mediterranean
nations research it, and sell it for som gold....
U use the favors but please, but the 'Not allowed to Trade' flag to this tech, and every Eu civ will use Monarchy or Feudalism.
2. Becuse civs in on Eu culture grup are share many technology thay will be strong, but US is in the American culturgrup.:
- Try to put America to the Eu cultur grup


hello habee,

1. it seems a good idea, but what about democracy, comunism and fascism? Should they have that flag, too?

2. What exactly causes belonging to another cultural group instead of the same group (except different city, improvements and citizens graphics)?

Originally posted by Rhye
I've decided for solution #2 for these reasons:
...
2) I haven't found any user-made unit that is good for the purpose of a generic non-european light medieval infantry
There is always the option of using the graphic for an existing :eek: unit.

There is much truth in what he says!

When I suggested the guerrilla thing, I thought that we would just use it, not develop a whole new unit line.

Also, I really like the idea of making representative governments non-tradeable. They are harder to develop (look at most of the world today; a bunch of dictatorships masquerading as democracies) and are overused in-game by the CPU.

PLUS it reduces the reason to research non-essential governments (for trade, b/c the cpu has a hard on for the rep governments and will plop down big bucks for it... but you all know that... duh...)

Perhaps... perhaps you... this might sound a bit mean spirited, but perhaps you could even make certain culture groups (or civs, and this is not simply pointed at the crips) unable to research/utilize certain government forms to force them to use others. For instance, make most of the Europeans unable to research Republic, and make most/all of the Med culture group unable to research Monarchy/Feudalism. That would result in a more "true to history" feel. Just another change idea.

I abhore the idea.... leave the governments alone. I strongly diagree with setting forced governments for certain cluture groups.

About Techs then ...

Making some advances Not Tradeable does a lot to help reduce ridiculously fast age advancements due to excessive AI tech trading.

Personally I have have ALL government, religious, philosophical and ideological techs set to Not Tradeable (not as many as it sounds really). And since there are more of those in the earlier Ages it even outs nicely in the end.

Also, while I haven't fiddled to much with this I find the 8 turn minimum research a problem. Might be better to have 1 turn minimum research time and 900 turn max research time, and then make techs VERY expensive to research. As it is now I always end up filthy rich (since Science rate beyond 20% does nothing for a medium+ sized empire).


About Terrains then ...

I noticed that you have refused Agricultural civs the ability to gain anything from Deserts and while I agree that Desert should not be irrigateable then how about making LM Desert a special type of Mountain with +1 Irrigation (for Terrace Farming in Andean South America and perhaps Tibet also?) allowing agricultural civs (like Inca) +2 food. I dunno if Plateus would be fitting for this job - some fiddling with terrain switching would be required of course.

- AI like use Republic and Democracy ->> i think thay need a " Cannot be Trade"
- AI usually use Fascizm and Communizm when thay are in war or dont have other.
- Global Cultures from civilopedia:
"There are five global cultures in the game: Amerindian, Greco-Roman, European, Far Eastern,
and Middle Eastern. Global culture determines the look of cities and citizens, and nations
of the same global culture tend to start near each other and are more tolerant in diplomacy. "

- The current settings (250 tech rate, 8-70 science cap) assure a balance. Now, if there's a problem of making too much money keeping the lever at 40% (problem I can't see when I test because I don't play the games but just watch) I can try to tweak this a little, trying to preserve balancement.

With this new imput and with new feedback with governments, I've restarted the test game. Be patient, I'll let you know if it works and post the patch ASAP :)

About governments, right now I've forbidden only trading Republic and Monarchy, as I remember that democracy, fascism and communism have been "traded" in history. (Democracy from France to the rest of Europe after the revolution, Fascism from Italy to Spain, and Communism exportation for a Trotzky idea)

My reason for making Democracy non-tradeable is not that it is hard for people to find out about them, but that it is hard for a democratic government to become established.

However, I am just lobbying for this so that SOME computer nation gets stuck with using Feudalism. Perhaps making it a bit cheaper to research (or something) or making it a more favorable government, simply because I am tired of seeing the whole world go Dept=>Repub=>Democ

Perhaps messing with Feudalism to make it more attractive would be a possibility?

And can you pretty please release the patch with whatever you have???

We are running out of ideas because of the lack of new material!!

@Aeon Give Rhye a break... he's working on releasing the patch... don't put unnecessary pressure on him. I for one would rather have a good patch than a half done one. Let him work out what he has then when the new patch comes out we'll offer new ideas.

About money:
In the firs CivIII just are Market,Bank
But CivPTW gave Stock Exchange and Commercial Dock
||
V
More money in the Modern Age
||
V
More Units
- so I think you can rise the Units Support Cost in the goverments:
Despotism : 1
Monarchy : 2
Democracy : 3 --> Becaus in modern Democracy need more support to the soldiers (and country have mucs many)

Yah totally agree with habee!

Too many units in the later ages!

Troops should be paid good money to forgo their freedom for a military life.

@Eddiit:

I for one would rather have a half done patch. That way he will have to do less changes later on, and we can help him with new ideas. Plus, he is the only one doing the testing right now (with the patch) so it is so much more work for him. I bet he has had to play so many games of civ that it is ridiculous!

If he were to distribute, we could take some of that load off him and give him more time to do other things... like figure out how to implement the guerrilla in the way he wants to!

Besides, this patch is not half done. You remember how many changes he made in those lists! This one is 99.88999999999% done, but since he is a no good low down perfectionist (;p) he wants to make the durn thing perfect! ;p haha

@Rhye:

Feel the completely fraternal love! ;p

Thank Aeon221

- about patch: Rhye sould share a Beta Patch...but, I think he don't want make a slower patch and always make many test.
- other: I have many idea without the new patch but Rhye don't like radical changes. And I will write my finel exams between may 10. and juny 18. and don't have enought time.
- last: What about the Iron position between Germany and France
and: I think the Flak has too many defence (6)...
bye all

OK, people. Please let me finish this game and don't put more iron on the fire so that I won't restart again ;)
You don't know, but the illfamed list has grown a bit... :lol:

In this last game I'll check if the new things work and if this time the civs are balanced and the timeline is correct.
An example:
You know, after the resources appearing later in the game, I tried to guess the number of good spots to put around America to make it grow properly after the Middle Ages. But in my penultimate game they were a lot behind. So the corrections about this are included in my last game. I'll see now if the corrections were enough or something must be tuned again. Anyway, as you are becoming tired of waiting and I am becoming tired of pressing "enter", I'll make corrections at the end of this game and release it as it is.

By the way, Aeon, what would you do if you were waiting for TETurkhans's Conquests version of his mod or for the new release of Double your Pleasure? Those people have been waiting for more than an year and are still waiting!!!!
Don't worry, this won't happen :) Gimme a couple of days


about the iron....I know the problem but I can't invent a new place where there's iron

I think the Flak has too many defence (6)...
So change it yourself! :D
I gave flak (not mobile sam) a 3-strength zero-range bombard some time ago. More recently, I lowered the defense of both flak and mobile sam to 4. The AI never builds more than 1 or two, anyway (that I have seen).

Oh dude, dont threaten like that!

You scared me so much that I almost had a heart attack!

;p

I AM waiting for the updates on the two you mentioned, as I cannot get the durned labels to work right. Its a bugger, but I refuse to play it if it is going to look stupid... and I have to be King of the Dismal Defeat ;p

Go at it!

@Jaybe:

I hate SAMs and Flaks with defense. Way back when I used to play Panzer General (the original ;p) I would always have to watch my infantry getting chewed up by Flak units. It makes very little sense. Wouldn't the infantry just walk up and shoot the gunners, whose weapons are pointed at the sky... presumably.

I mean, they are kinda like artillery units, but with D.

I make them defenseless, simply because I am a heartless bastard ;p

Although... you do have a good point. It is rare to see the computer doing anything to use airpower, artillery, flak, boats (beyond explore and total misusage). Nothing one can do except play against humans ;p

I get this error message when I try to start the scenario. I'm using C3C version 1.22 and your scenario with version 2.14 (2.0 produces the same error message). What is wrong?

bug screenshot (http://jota.sm.luth.se/~jonlan-9/bug.bmp)

I get this error message when I try to start the scenario. I'm using C3C version 1.22 and your scenario with version 2.14 (2.0 produces the same error message). What is wrong?

bug screenshot (http://jota.sm.luth.se/~jonlan-9/bug.bmp)

Strange. It seems to happen when you download an old savegame with patch 1.22, but it has never happened starting a new game. Check that everything's installed properly. In the meantime I'll try myself



EDIT: I've installed patch 1.22 and it seems to work.

The patch 2.2 for RoC has been ready since Saturday morning!!!
When I was going to post it, I found the forum offline.
Now it's back, but....
....where is the upload button?????

....where is the upload button?????

I just mentioned this to Thunderfall in the feedback thread and he's on it. :)

OK it's posted. :beer:

The problem with excess of Republic govenments wasn't solved. I tried to raise its costs, to check "can't be traded" but it has no effect. So it can still be traded but allows less free units (1/1/1).
The complete list of changes is in the txt inside the patch.


I hope this is the last one....I will not touch civ for a while unless there are some major bugs introduced in this version.

For the future, I've some possible projects, including a couple of optional Expansion Packs for RoC. But it's early, let me go on holiday from civ for now :cool:

I think you have earned a break!

I cant wait to play!

BTW, I do not like this new forum format AT ALL!

Hey guys, Rhye is the man!

Hes so nice he thanked us in the readme (which I always read, btw)!

SHOUTOUT TO RHYE!

THANKS FOR THE SCENARIO!!!

I hope this is the last one....I will not touch civ for a while unless there are some major bugs introduced in this version.


Well, it's only minor, but I think it's a bug:
Unfortunately Grenzers are not part of the upgrade chain, which is somewhat of a disadvantage for Austria....

Thanks for the vote, Taijian! We're still under 70%, but you've helped :)

To thank you, I've uploaded a fixed version of patch 2.2 (the Grenzers thing corrected, which BTW was there since 2.0 and nobody noticed)

Please re-download it

Lo guys, a bit of a n00b here :blush:

Problem: error loading. File not found: "Art\Units\Ancient settler\..\..\..\..\..\..\..\Art\Units\settler\set tdefault.flc" before even starting.
Then the game exits.. :sad:

Cant wait to play this...Any help?? All this on a fresh install of C3C (v1.22). Followed all the instructions on the readme.

Thanks for any help. see ya.

Did you install everything properly?
Did you install the mod 2.0 and then the patch 2.2?
If you've installed the patch only, some files are missing...you need the whole mod (9MB) before it

Thanks for the help Rhye.

Yeh installed everything as said in readme. Over a fresh install of C3C v1.22.
First the RoC v2.0 and then the v22 update.

But the sad news is no mod seems to work. Happened more or less the same with The Ancient Mediterranean mod. Missing files all the way..... :confused:
havent touched anything in the Civ3 folders except installing these 2 mods. And no problem at all playing regular C3C games.

I can see this is not the thread to ask for solutions for this, as it is not only a problem with ur mod. But can u give me any help?

Thanks in advance. See ya.

It seems that your settDefault.flc is missing.
It is contained inside main civ3 folder \art\units\settler: check if it's inside

My advice is to reinstall Civ completely. But it is strange that with no mod it works: if that file is missing, it shouldn't

I think i found the problem. My Civ is in spanish so the folders go \art\units\colono instead of ...\settler. Should i reinstall everything in english?? Told you i was a bit on the n00bie side ;)

Also, as i almost never play vanilla Civ3 it is not updated....Should I?

Thanks again.

Yes!!
If you don't keep the english version, you won't play any scenarios.
I got used to it and ignore the fact that I'm italian, now :)

So follow these steps:

1) Delete everything
2) install Civ3 in english
3) install patch 1.29 in english
4) install C3C in english
5) install patch 1.22FULL in english (beware: the default will probably be spanish!)
6) install Rhye's of Civilization 2.0
7) install Rhye's of Civilization 2.2
8) if you've liked the mod, vote in the pool, thanks!

¡Viva Real Zaragoza!

FFS!! my Civ3 is spanish only, so it doesnt give me the chance to install it in english. That doesnt happens with conquests. What should i do now? Change the folders names?

After winning the cup were now headed to the second division. but yeh....¡¡Viva Real Zaragoza!! ;)

Thanks for all ur help. Really appreciated.

Edited: Just tried and still doesnt work :(

Yes, you should rename both the folder and the .ini (colono-> settler and colono.ini -> settler.ini) and much more...
in the case of the settler, you need to rename all the files mentioned in my mod's ancient settler.ini

All I can do is make a screenshot of the list of units\ subfolders

Lol ok.....ill start now....it looks like i have a long work ahead. :)

Thanks for all the help again.

All I can do is make a screenshot of the list of units\ subfolders

No worries...only the .ini file is in spanish so i can change the folder and the ini file easily. Thx anyway!!!!

All done now. Mencey, from the spanish Civilization site has gave me a .bat file that creates all the english folders for you :D :D . And its all working great now!!! Thanks for all the help Rhye. Great mod!!.

See ya.

Dont know if you care, but I had an idea for dealing with the barbs for once and all.

Delete ALL the camps. Instead, create new barb units (using the warrior and swordsmen stuff entirely) without the ability to fortify. Place 2 warriors and 1 swordsman at each of the locations for the old camps.

This way, instead of barb ODing, we have small groups of barbs who wander around slaying.

You can do the same thing with a few galleys and a few spearmen (to impede movement).

I am looking for a way to prevent the creation of (EUROPEAN) empires in Africa before the caravel.

Any suggestions?

I put in all the changes I suggested, and a few other ones. I am gonna check it out, and if I like it... well I might even stop bugging you ;p

Dont know if you care, but I had an idea for dealing with the barbs for once and all.

Delete ALL the camps. Instead, create new barb units (using the warrior and swordsmen stuff entirely) without the ability to fortify. Place 2 warriors and 1 swordsman at each of the locations for the old camps.

This way, instead of barb ODing, we have small groups of barbs who wander around slaying.

You can do the same thing with a few galleys and a few spearmen (to impede movement).

I am looking for a way to prevent the creation of (EUROPEAN) empires in Africa before the caravel.

Any suggestions?
There's no need to remove camps, just remove the advanced barbarian unit.
THe problem is that we can't make swordsmen be created in any turn. You put them and galleys from the beginning, while players haven't knowledge of iron working or mapmaking.
There should be a sort of civ2 style events.txt where there was a createunit command. Unfortunately everything's hardcoded

About Africa, I don't think this will be an easy task.

Yah I know, it is really tough to do... but I think I found a way ;p

I basically gave the galley to almost nobody, coded it as naval power (haha, cute way of saying I checked the naval power box), and reduced its transport capability to one.

I deleted the curragh, and restricted the caravel in a similar way.

The galleon is the first transport naval unit open to everyone (I considered making it the transport, but that seemed too cruel).

I also eliminated all goody and barbarian huts, and basically returned the barbarians to Civ2 status
-Barbarian Chieftans with 3/2/1 enslave to Barbarian Warrior, not wheeled, swordsman graphics
-Barbarian Warrior 1/1/1 enslave to Barbarian Warrior, not wheeled, warrior graphics
-Barbarian tribesman 1/3/1, immobile, +2 HP bonus, spearman graphics (meant to constrict movement without permanent terrain changes).
-Barbarian Galley 2/1/3, enslave to same, sinks in ocean, galley graphics (duh ;p)

Warrior, Chieftan, and Galley cannot skip turn, fortify, or stand sentry, and therefore must always move (gets them killed or active sooner).

All places which previously had a barbarian camp now have a BC minimum.

Galleys are liberally sprinkled over heavily traveled waterways (to simulate piracy and to decrease the level of oceanic movement).

They will remain a significant threat until metal warships, as their attack is equivalent to frigate defense.

Blocked off the Koreans from the mainland
Made desert and tundra impassable
Gave the Arabians preplaced roads connecting them to all areas open for settlement
Significantly strengthened the Keshik (blitz, db of 2/0/1, reduce cost by 5), to allow for the formation of a mongolian horde
Split India from Europe via careful placement of desert and mountain
Made the Urals impassable except at one point (defended by two Barb Tribesmen and a Barricade... might be a bit much)

Iberia is cut off from Europe by two Tribesmen in Barricades (one at N route, one at S).

Eastern exit from Italy is cut off by a Tribesman w/o barricade

Deleted Babylon and Sumeria (crowding concerns). May create a new civ in SE Asia, but I like the possibility of colonial warfare in the area.

Cut Egypt off from the rest of Africa (historicity).

I know that that is a lot of changes to your beautiful map, but my goal is to force the computer to develop in a historical fashion. So far, it has worked the way I wanted it to, but not perfectly.

I too miss the days of Civ2 scenario events. It makes things so much harder when you have to do EVERYthing at the start and hope that it all works out.

Deleted Babylon and Sumeria (cro