Barak, there are barbarians in RoX, not uprisings.

Are they fixed barbs, or can they leave camp? Well, I guess I KNOW they can leave camp. I was lucky that my archer was able to hold them off.

Hi again,
Finally a quick post. I think you guys are doing a great job and it probably doesn't really matter which way you go with all the different kinds of ships. You have to fit a snapshot of shipping history into a game that requires stats and images to represent a battle. It is difficult and I am impressed with how much thought is happening. The era between the battle of Navarino in 1827 and the battle of Tsumisho in 1905 (spelling and date are guess work, previously mentioned as 1901) was an era of naval peace largely due to the policing nature of the British Navy. It is hard to explain but this era is what is causing difficulties for you as military advances seemed to go backwards. The ironclads and other metal steamships were the battleships of the 1800s because there was nothing more powerful than them. There was no need to build huge ships of power so navies built smaller faster and more nimble ships to patrol the whole world and quickly respond to a crisis. The Suez canal opened and meant the end of the Sail Era.

Whatever you decide I think people will be happy with because of the level of consultation. Thanks for my time here, I think this community is great!

Samart

I vote "A".

I vote A for the ships, yet I would put the privateer's bombard rate down to one so that they dont end up just bombarding other people's improvements really well. That should be the job of frigates and SoL, not privateers.

Hopefully, privateers will only have defensive bombardment. The ability to destroy improvement without declaring war would make it too powerful. Otherwise, I vote A.

Actually if the Privateer had a low offensive bombard (2 to 4 bombard strength) that would be very cool and would make them much more of a threat... Every nation with more than a couple coastal tiles would have to maintain a navy to defend the coasts with...
Maybe we should also add a "Buccaneer" (or Pirate) hidden nationality marine unit with 3.1.1 that can only be loaded onto Privateers (with privateers having 1 slot for them and being unable to hold anything else.) They would hardly be able to damage cities but they could harass workers... =P

... well since I suggested we add the SoL of COURSE I vote against it ;p

I do think that we need to restrict privateers to defensive bombardment, because an exploit as obvious as that cannot be allowed. Def keep with the policy of no unknown/invisible ground units.

@Samart: Tsushima Straits, almost certain you are right about 1904

[Blasphemous] Good idea, but I don't think it would be possible to create a ship unit that is allowed to transport only one kind of foot unit.

[Blasphemous] Good idea, but I don't think it would be possible to create a ship unit that is allowed to transport only one kind of foot unit.
I think it can be done by flagging privateer as carry only foot AND carry only air, and flag the privateer as both foot and air. It won't be able to go onto ships that carry only foot because it's air, and nothing but it will be able to go onto a privateer since nothing else will have both flags. I'm pretty sure that's supposed to work.

In general, vote is A, but I second Blas idea to add a bucaneer, sounds nice, if that's not possible how about stealth? Running in the harbour under 'wrong' flag and destroy the coastal batteries... OK, I admit I'm obsessed with those privateers.

Who's next... :egypt:? Usually they suck so much, that would make them a suitable follow-up to the Incas indeed. :lol:

thankyou for saying that micro! i just played a regent game as egypt and got my hat handed to me by the german lancers and knights. absolutely devastated.

the double-whammy of flood plain disease (costing me tons of citizens) and low shield output (is it just me, or are there WAY too many LM no-shield tiles in and around egypt's start location?) left me behind in development, both of defense and infrastructure.

i'm going to try them again, i think, but my first reaction is that egypt must be woefully underpowered (or are we saying difficult? :) )

About the SPHQ, the change is accurate but wouldn't the -1 on all the cities be too unbalancing? I hope not, but I don't know the true power of communism in the mod.

in two previous games (one under ROC 2.65 and the other ROCX 1.01) i found communism to be almost too easy. i dont believe the -1 on all cities would be imbalancing at all.

EW

i also vote for the change (A). i believe an earlier comment by Samart indicated that the SoL did NOT carry units, so we should probably disable transport for it.

and a special thanks to aeon and samart for feeding such an in-depth discussion. it's been very interesting to lurk along. :)

-1 happiness to all cities would only be really bad for low-pop nations without big armies and/or without alot of lux. That kind of nation usually shouldn't be in Communism anyway, and won't benefit much from the SPHQ even without losing happiness (as low population means low corruption). So I think it will only serve to slightly curb the power of the ultimate gov't for a large empire. And one of the things I think this mod does successfully but not completely, is curbing the exponential growth factor in civ. You really are threatened by small nations even when you're a large empire in RoC/X. (Next time I go for a large empire, I'm gonna start in Fascism and then once I'm too big I'll make the quick switch to Communism... It's really not necessary but I need to teach myself to use the quick gov't switching. =P)

But a privateer with offensive bombardment would be able to move out of a port and destroy improvements and move back into safety - multiply with x stack of privateers. A bucaneer would be able to pour across the border and destroy improvements - multiply with stack.

Another thing - did the modern destroyer/cruiser get a bombardment that represents cruise missiles? Otherwise, I would suggest they do. That would be a nice way to make battleships obsolete. I also like the idea of a tech that simply makes the battleship obsolete without it upgrading to anything. That way, they will slowly be "decommisioned".

I think the -1 happiness with SPHQ makes good sence - both historical and in respect to gameplay.

Enkidu, isn't that true? Very difficult. Maybe I should have used more forced labour, I generally try to avoid that as much as possible. But they provide a real strategical challenge ... if I only could make up my mind which road to follow with them. Production is just to low to go for cultural, domination is completely out of reach, maybe they are a candidate for diplomatic. But how to keep up in tech until the last stage... Difficult indeed. Anyone successfully played Egypt?

OK I'll try to change some tile near Egyptian starting location.

The next patch is going to screw up the medieval tree in old savegames. They will be playable but will show wrong arrows.

The only thing to decide now is:
a1)Privateer with defensive bombard 4/0/0
a2)Privateer with low offensive bombard 3/1/2

now that I think, we just went over 5000 posts! incredible....



anyway these are the predicted changes in 1.12:

Palace Guards now immobile
Trebuchet no longer available to Rome
Partisan no longer wheeled
USMC now has ranged attack animation
Added Ship of the Line, available with Naval Tactics
Changed Galleass, Frigate, Galleon, Man-o-War, Privateer, Gallivat, Turtle Ship and Ironclad stats
Increased cost of all the industrial and modern ships
Secret Police HQ now causes an unhappy citizen in all the cities
Alchemy now requires Siegecraft too (so that Metallurgy is discovered later)
Physics moved to the top of the medieval tech tree, after Humanism
Humanism now requires Printing Press
Military Tradition now requires Magnetism too
Naval Tactics requires Mercantilism too
Reduced Firearms, Military Tradition, Flintlock and Naval Tactics cost
Tuned Egyptian strength (+)
Slightly decreased disease and plague strength (80)

A1. The privateer bombard is a cool idea, yet I think only the human would end up using it effectively and the AI would be left more clueless than usual. Too easy of an exploit.

Privateers should be offensive by nature shouldn't they? ;) If you want I can do an installer for the patch too, that should really be much easier than the full install and be done in a breeze. Three Crownes tested the full one on a fresh install and it did well btw, just to keep you uptodate.

If you really want to add the Buc, remove the pillage flag to prevent pillaging. In fact, make it like the Berserker in the Middle Ages scenario and flag it with collateral (right under creates craters) and def bombardment (with a low attack).

That way it will mess up the city with a low likelihood of actually taking it. I would also recommend giving it 1 or 0 def (I do not believe 0 is actually an option... but still) so that it wont be able to hold the territory it takes, just pillage the city and capture it.

I am trying to figure out a way to create a land unit that doesnt start wars by attacking without making it overpowered.

Suggested stats for Buccaneer:

A- 3
D- 1
M- 1
B- 8
RoF- 2
R- 0
-Collateral
-Hidden nationality

Maybe? Make it expensive, but not so expensive as to make it worthless. Might also want to consider it under the same light as the militia in terms of penalties.

Regarding Palace Guards, why don't they upgrade to something? Being in the Industrial Era and still having Palace Guards run around is pretty pointless, especially if they will lag the game.

i'm in favour of option (a) on the privateer - that is, defensive bombard only. two reasons: first, i see privateers as offensive, but sea only, not pillaging territory (not that they didnt, but rather that it doesnt fit the uses of navy in civ 3), second, i agree with the earlier comment that it's too easy for the human to exploit.

and, rhye, thanks for taking on board all our commentary. it cant be easy, but it's surely appreciated. :)
EW

Wow, I know this may look like spam, but Rhye, your mod is awesome.

I should invent a word, since awesome doesnt even describe your mod....You know, awesome and great...like "Greawesome", or "Awegreat".

:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

Hey Rhye,
I was just looking at the .bic for the Exp Pack and NONE of the Units that come out of the Iron Working advance require Iron (like swordsman and legionary). Is this just an oversight or the way it should be?

*edit* Doublechecked and Legionary does require iron, but not the others.

I vote a1.

A1

A privateer with offensive bombard would probably slow the game down as well as drive you nuts. The AI is bound to flood the seas with the things and continually hammer your coastline.

Hi everyone

Rhye, some comments on your great new xpack. They may already have been posted but Ive been away and dont want to sift through the 250 pages of posts :)

-In the religious traits I noticed the Indians go from being Hindu to Muslim but I think most of the Indians today (1 billion of em) are still Hindus. Thats why they made a India (hindu) and Pakistan (muslim) after the war.

-When I downloaded the mod for some reason I didnt get the files for the African Spearman and Arab Rider. I patched it up myself by copying and renaming some other units, but did everyone else have this problem?

-Homersheiniken is right when he says the swordmen dont need iron to build. Is this intentional?

-About the 2 new wonders in the colonial age; the slave trade and east india company. Though both say you need respectively tobacco and spices in the city radius to build (actually it says "city needs access") I can build the East India company everywhere (once I have spice), and the Slave trade just in far flung colonies which have tobacco - even though the civiclopedia says the same thing for both wonders.
In case you intended on the wonders to have the rescource in the city radius (as is now the case for the slave trade), is it perhaps an idea to make the wonder(s) a bit cheaper? Im now only to build the slave trade by well into the industrial age as the tobacco colonies are far from my capital and thus only have 1 or 2 shields to work with.

Regarding Palace Guards, why don't they upgrade to something? Being in the Industrial Era and still having Palace Guards run around is pretty pointless, especially if they will lag the game.

They don't lag the game as they are now. However they don't upgrade, for some obscure reasons. I'll test if being immobile will force them to upgrade.

Hi everyone

Rhye, some comments on your great new xpack. They may already have been posted but Ive been away and dont want to sift through the 250 pages of posts :)

-In the religious traits I noticed the Indians go from being Hindu to Muslim but I think most of the Indians today (1 billion of em) are still Hindus. Thats why they made a India (hindu) and Pakistan (muslim) after the war.

-When I downloaded the mod for some reason I didnt get the files for the African Spearman and Arab Rider. I patched it up myself by copying and renaming some other units, but did everyone else have this problem?

-Homersheiniken is right when he says the swordmen dont need iron to build. Is this intentional?

-About the 2 new wonders in the colonial age; the slave trade and east india company. Though both say you need respectively tobacco and spices in the city radius to build (actually it says "city needs access") I can build the East India company everywhere (once I have spice), and the Slave trade just in far flung colonies which have tobacco - even though the civiclopedia says the same thing for both wonders.
In case you intended on the wonders to have the rescource in the city radius (as is now the case for the slave trade), is it perhaps an idea to make the wonder(s) a bit cheaper? Im now only to build the slave trade by well into the industrial age as the tobacco colonies are far from my capital and thus only have 1 or 2 shields to work with.

Hello and welcome back!

->As you've said, Islam is 2nd Indian religion. That's why it's one of the two traits.

->I'm afraid you've been left behind with RoC. You have to download it again.

->Yes it was intentional. Swordsmen are 3/1/1 BTW. Iron now has less importance and it needed only for armoured units

->Wrong pedia entry for the India company. I'll fix that.

If you want I can do an installer for the patch too, that should really be much easier than the full install and be done in a breeze. Three Crownes tested the full one on a fresh install and it did well btw, just to keep you uptodate.

This is going to be my last patch, so the installer should be already patched.

But a privateer with offensive bombardment would be able to move out of a port and destroy improvements and move back into safety - multiply with x stack of privateers. A bucaneer would be able to pour across the border and destroy improvements - multiply with stack.
But it wouldn't be so easy to stack these, and with low offensive bombard for the privateer and low stats for the bucaneer, they would be able to do little damage other than ruining some (terrain and city) improvements, and even that would be hard for the privateer to do with a bombard rating of 2 or 3. I think adding the buccaneer and giving the privateer a low offensive bombard would help reflect the menace that pirates and privateers represented in the age of sail, and it would require every major nation with coasts to maintain a navy and hunt down privateers (similarly to real history, I think). And buccaneers with 3.1.1 would be easy prey even for spearmen, so they're not much of a problem.
On a similar note, didn't the East India Trading Company also hunt pirates and stuff? Maybe that wonder should be coastal and create a frigate every five turns (or more)?
A1. The privateer bombard is a cool idea, yet I think only the human would end up using it effectively and the AI would be left more clueless than usual. Too easy of an exploit.
The AI would use them just fine. I've already seen them bombard an enemy silly with a Frigate, there's no reason for them not to do the same with privateers.
If you really want to add the Buc, remove the pillage flag to prevent pillaging. In fact, make it like the Berserker in the Middle Ages scenario and flag it with collateral (right under creates craters) and def bombardment (with a low attack).

That way it will mess up the city with a low likelihood of actually taking it. I would also recommend giving it 1 or 0 def (I do not believe 0 is actually an option... but still) so that it wont be able to hold the territory it takes, just pillage the city and capture it.

I am trying to figure out a way to create a land unit that doesnt start wars by attacking without making it overpowered.

Suggested stats for Buccaneer:

A- 3
D- 1
M- 1
B- 8
RoF- 2
R- 0
-Collateral
-Hidden nationality

Maybe? Make it expensive, but not so expensive as to make it worthless. Might also want to consider it under the same light as the militia in terms of penalties.
Souns good, only it should have pillaging (they would be pretty easy to destroy.) They should be expensive and have -2 to hp to keep them from becoming too much of a threat.
PS: Oh, and you CAN give a unit 0 defense, if you do that they get destroyed when attacked. But I think they should be at least given a fighting chance against older attackers. Would also be cool if Buccaneers enslaved to Buccaneer, but that may be just a bit too much power. =X

This is going to be my last patch, so the installer should be already patched.
So shouldn't you wait with the patch for another few days (or even a week or two) to make sure you catch all the bugs?

INCA – 2

(part 3)

Oh, how sweet it is when a dream comes true!
That beautiful woman with the flame of liberty (and, err, technology advances), appeared near the East Coast of our continent in Quito in 1804. Long live the Incans! :king:
And with joy, we turned into democracy, as well.

From this on, I took science to zero for some time to get quick buildings.
But after a while – about 1900 (I don't remember clearly) I had to get back to make science on my own, for the world was not about to develop – except a single nation: Israel.
Good old Europe was engaged in various wars, Like Franch vs. Austria, Portugal vs. England, and the like, it was hard to follow ;)
So I got back into business so Mr. David not to get that ahead.

We reached the 20th century and around 1914 the big world war broke out.
It was first Russia-Israel conflict, but then soon nearly everyone smelled blood and money.
A great turmoil it is indeed (still ongiong in 1960) - Russia and France hold against nearly rest of the world (well, quite successfully!).
Ah, well, I watch it from the distance.

Im my 12-city-land the first rails appeared in 1850s and by 1920s we had comple network to reach all cities. By this time factories are almost in every big city.

The year 1936 was significant, I felt we really have pre-modern times:
We had Olympic Games and the Eiffel Tower in one single turn, orginizing the Games was thanks to a single big hero (SGL) of our nation :goodjob: (thanks to him, really). Also, first hospital is built this year.

In 1960, I stepped into MODERN AGE.
This means there is 70 turns left to… Space Race? UN? :rolleyes:
I would go for the Ship – maybe with help of Israel and Germany I can speed up…
to the stars and victory!

Hooray, another sail question!

The East India Company was a military force in its own right. It operated a huge number of ships and transported goods in large fleets. Anything small (a lone privateer) didn't have a chance against the merchant vessels as some of them carried as many as 50 guns (as much as a well armed frigate). The problem they did have was with crew. Indiamen ships were crewed to sail fast, not have 6 men per cannon like the warships. If they were boarded alone, they were in trouble. If they were attacked by even a small fleet of enemy warships, they were doomed. They were able to fight, but against organised, efficient fighting ships they just ran or surrendered. It was common policy to try and outrun an enemy, or split up so the whole fleet wasn't caught. If in doubt the merchants surrendered without a fight as they were deliberately merchant sailors, not fighting sailors.
The East India Company did pay for its own private escorts either using Privateers or the Royal Navy itself.
I just want to say that if you get this ship thing right you may have a new Civ player. I will probably only play to use the worlds navies, but that could be interesting to see how one focus would unravel. The major focus of England's military has been its navy since the 1500s.

Samart

Hmm... Then maybe the ITC should create a Trading Ship every three turns, that has almost no attack, has a good defensive bombard, has 3 defense, and is a bit faster than a frigate and is faster at sea than at coast. And it would upgrade to transport.

This is going to be my last patch, so the installer should be already patched.
Sure, that's clear anyway. I meant a small one just for the patch, like a proof of concept to get some comments on. Regarding license, maybe this is helpfull? http://www.yoyo.org/~pgl/lqr/

soma, your Incan game sounds nice, indeed. May I ask for a sav or screenie? Sounds like something I'd love to have a look at.

And mighty OT: does someone know of a site to learn something on plumbing?

just suffered a humiliating defeat as india in a random map game. babylon perfectly executed a OCC, single-city cultural victory. before i realised what they were doing, it was too late for me to do anything about it. i almost caught them at the end too, losing at 9800+ culture in my capital to their 10,000.

one thing that might have made a difference was that, on the map i was on, i did not have a river. that meant i could not build my initial hindu-based wonder (the sacred river?). a number of other wonders (eg Statue of Liberty) do not require the same features in the random map game, so i'm thinking a change here might be in order.

i also realised that, in the random map game, i couldnt guarantee i'd have elephants - which meant it was entirely possible i would play india and not get one of my UU's, since they require elephants! (i was lucky, there was some next to my capital)

i suspect there's quite a few of these random-map instances that we've overlooked, taking for granted the ROC earth map.

EW

I couldn't enter the forum due to that advertisement page. I was always redirected to it.
It seems that puts in the HD a spy cookie, too.


-> EW, what year was it?

-> Micromegas, I have no idea of what those points need. Can anybody explain?

-> Blasphemous and everyone: the next patch is going to be released before Xmas, with no-Byzantium version as a Christmas present. And that ends the development. I'm sorry to say I won't add the buccaneer (there isn't even an animation, and I'm not convinced about it) or more naval units (except the SoL, of course).

Rhye : please, name a successor, i don't want see your mod die :(

Any successor who continue work of Rhye is welcome ;)

But it wouldn't be so easy to stack these, and with low offensive bombard for the privateer and low stats for the bucaneer, they would be able to do little damage other than ruining some (terrain and city) improvements, and even that would be hard for the privateer to do with a bombard rating of 2 or 3. I think adding the buccaneer and giving the privateer a low offensive bombard would help reflect the menace that pirates and privateers represented in the age of sail, and it would require every major nation with coasts to maintain a navy and hunt down privateers (similarly to real history, I think). And buccaneers with 3.1.1 would be easy prey even for spearmen, so they're not much of a problem.

Well, Rhye has called it, but we can still continue our debate ;)
You could have privateers and bucaneers roaming freely around protected by any other sea and land unit. With a RoP they would be safe to pillage all they want.

Exactly! Which is really annoying and an exploit if I have ever seen one! So that is why I said to keep them from having pillage.

Its all mookie at this point.

Can we really just name someone to be in charge of further development? I really think that that would be rude (and unfair) to Rhye. If we were to further utilize it as a base for scenarios well and good, but just stealing his mod and working on it? Thats a bit much!

It will be sad to see him go, but he will be back for Civ4 (...unless he wants a lot of unhappy visitors ;p) and, to be honest, the guy deserves a break! I mean Feb=>Dec has basically been him hunting down units, answering posts, making stuff, balancing, playtesting, writing, researching, desiging... etc!

I may not agree with all the changes made (for instance the ability to move in desert ;p) but without a doubt we should all be grateful for what we have and willing to let him rest!

So I say we thank him and move on and (of course) personalize the thing ;p


Thanks Rhye! Merry Christmas!

Does anyone still think america is very weak, even in the late 19 c.

What if there was a new resource, like patriotism for example, hidden under the starting settler location in America.
Then could we make a wonder requiring patriotism (a resource only America has) that increases American production ability. An we could reveal the resource at whatever time period we want the wonder to be produced.

Then again, I do little to no modding, so I'm not even sure if this is possible.
Just a thought
-LPJ

Uh, I can't seem to find certain units. The african settler is no where. Others arn't found. How do I get this to work?!!

What if there was a new resource, like patriotism for example, hidden under the starting settler location in America.
Then could we make a wonder requiring patriotism (a resource only America has) that increases American production ability. An we could reveal the resource at whatever time period we want the wonder to be produced.

Then again, I do little to no modding, so I'm not even sure if this is possible.
Just a thought
-LPJ

It is possible, and America already has mustangs. Patriotism isn't a natural resource, and America doesn't need anymore beefing up.

Well, Rhye has called it, but we can still continue our debate ;)
You could have privateers and bucaneers roaming freely around protected by any other sea and land unit. With a RoP they would be safe to pillage all they want.
Whoa. I hadn't thought of that. I now strongly oppose having hidden-nationality Buccaneers. But it would be alright if Buccaneers had normal nationality... As long as they're cheaper than Colonial Infantry, weaker, and have no support, they would be to Col Inf as Partisan is to Fusilier.
I have some ideas about continued development for the mod, but out of respect for Rhye I will hold my tongue until he is done with his awesome work.

Ok, so I'm a little confused as to what was decided as the final outcome for ships.

What was added and changed??

Thanks!!!

what folder is the scenario looking under? A folder named after it or the normal Rhye's of Civ folder?

Rhye : please, name a successor, i don't want see your mod die :(

Any successor who continue work of Rhye is welcome ;)
I nominate Blasphemous.

I nominate the whole team

Of course we must continue to be involved. But somebody has to be in charge of compiling the Biq and stuff. There has to be a central leader in the team.

Of course we must continue to be involved. But somebody has to be in charge of compiling the Biq and stuff. There has to be a central leader in the team.

It could be open source.

-> EW, what year was it?

2026, give or take. it was a standard size map, 6 civs total. i had a tech lead and was a half dozen techs or so from the end of the industrial age.

Hey Rye, I would just like to thank you for making this great mod. I have played civ since the days of civ1, and this modpack concludes the very best of the game. :)

Max rating of course, and also thanks to the guys who assisted you :goodjob:

Me naming a successor? It would be unkind and unfair.

But I think that the team, led by Aeon, Blasphemous or anybody else wants(any of you that knows a little of the editor can hold the biq. It's better to keep only one copy of it.), can make good quality historical scenarios, putting the cities and adapting what's needed.

Without counting your own version of the mod.
Any of you can continue those discussions and expand the mod with new civs or new units. A sort of "unofficial" continuation. I'd prefer to see historical scenarios, anyway; I could even give some feedback.

But before this, let's fill the strategy guides page!


p.s. Thanks Aeon. It's even worse: it's Nov '03 => Dec '04! I started drawing the Earth map only few days after the day I had Conquests.

Uh, I can't seem to find certain units. The african settler is no where. Others arn't found. How do I get this to work?!!

What error message you get?

When I try to download it, winzip is telling me I need a password to unzip it. I'm trying to download it to C/program files/infogrames/civ3/conquests/scenarios, but it won't go. I didn't have this problem with the other mods. Same thing happened when I tried to download the readme/install instructions. Help!

Well, if Rhye is cool with it, I would nominate Blas' to head up any mod team. He has shown the most interest (in number of posts), has had many original ideas and (I think) understands the editor and game concepts well enough to know whether something works or not.

It might be polite to start a new thread though....

If you guys want me to head the team, fine. I'd be honored to. But I must warn you that I lose motivation over a while if not stimulated by others, so do not ever expect me to keep on taking initiative and doing stuff without constant discussion.
I think our team's priorities for the mod should be as such:
1. Annihilating any bugs that surface after the final patch, and tweaking the mod's balance if any major imbalance appears.
2. Completing the help and guides on the website.
3. Making the mod easily installable (which seems to be close to completion now with MM's help. :goodjob: )
4. Creating scenarios and alternate version of the mod, and continuing development beyond what exists in RoX.
Number four is the one I look forwards to the most, yet the other three are more important.
Anyway, enough talk of the future for now. We will arrange a team structure and working arrangements once the last patch is out.

I have some other random upgrading stuff to report.

I dont remember if this has already been said, but bombers dont upgrade to heavy bombers. Also carriers dont upgrade.

Also, Ironclads (European version) dont upgrade to Dreadnoughts, yet they do upgrade to Battleships. I looked in the editor, and it appears that this is either intentional or an accident, as it says that they upgrade to Battleships. I would change that so there arent as many antiquated ships running around.

This is all version 1.0

I have some other random upgrading stuff to report.

I dont remember if this has already been said, but bombers dont upgrade to heavy bombers. Also carriers dont upgrade.

Also, Ironclads (European version) dont upgrade to Dreadnoughts, yet they do upgrade to Battleships. I looked in the editor, and it appears that this is either intentional or an accident, as it says that they upgrade to Battleships. I would change that so there arent as many antiquated ships running around.

This is all version 1.0

That was fixed in 1.1

1. Annihilating any bugs that surface after the final patch, and tweaking the mod's balance if any major imbalance appears.
2. Completing the help and guides on the website.
3. Making the mod easily installable (which seems to be close to completion now with MM's help. :goodjob: )
4. Creating scenarios and alternate version of the mod, and continuing development beyond what exists in RoX.


I'll have an active role in points 1,2,3.

-If anything big comes out after the next patch, I'll make a fix.
-The guides should be sent to me, and I'll update the site.
-I'll dedicate to this after the next patch.

That leaves point 4. I will not play an active role.

Okay then, I'd be more than glad to actively pursue point four. :D

Like a fiction strategic map ?

I was just curious if anyone knew what the changes to Galleys, Gallivat, Turtle ship?

I would like to update my spreadsheet to accurately reflect the changes

Galley's transport was moved down to one. Not sure about the others

homersheineken you can find in some older pages the changes that are going to happen in the next patch, quoted by me.

Just won my first Cultural victory pretty easily on Monarch as England, thanks to the 10000 point limit (thanks, Rhye!)

Wondering: Should we be able to win a cultural victory (that gets the smooches in the victory splash screen that the other leaders all "love" us), if those leaders are "Annoyed" or "Furious" with us? I had ticked off almost everybody in my drive to culture points, but then suddenly they love me??!! I think I should have to work harder to keep at least 50% approval from the AI nations in order to keep my victory?

What do others think?

Well, that could be seen as a good idea, yet I dont think it would be possible to implement.

homersheineken you can find in some older pages the changes that are going to happen in the next patch, quoted by me.

Are you talking about this information? Is this all of it?

Galleass movement reduced to 8/8/8 (previously 9/9/9)
Upgrades to SoL instead of Frigate

SoL: 5/5 Movement: 8/22/22
bombard 8/1/2.
(Possibly 1 transport. Only if Samart says that they were used for transport, too)
Upgrades to cruiser.

Frigate: A/D: 4/3 Mov: 11/11/11 (like the old Privateer) + Enslave
bombard: 6/1/2
Nothing upgrades to Frigate now.

Gallivat: same as the Frigate, but with a lower defense, cheaper and faster.

Ironclad A/D increased to 6/8 (previously 5/6). It's still the beginning of the new line (to dreadnought and battleship)

Privateer 3/2 instead of 4/2. + Enslave
Movement: 10/10/10
bombard: 4/1/2

Galleon A/D 2/3 instead of 2/4
defensive bombard: 6/0/0

No changes to the old MoW settings xcept bombard: 6/1/2.

If you guys want me to head the team, fine. I'd be honored to. But I must warn you that I lose motivation over a while if not stimulated by others, so do not ever expect me to keep on taking initiative and doing stuff without constant discussion.
I think our team's priorities for the mod should be as such:
1. Annihilating any bugs that surface after the final patch, and tweaking the mod's balance if any major imbalance appears.
2. Completing the help and guides on the website.
3. Making the mod easily installable (which seems to be close to completion now with MM's help. :goodjob: )
4. Creating scenarios and alternate version of the mod, and continuing development beyond what exists in RoX.
Number four is the one I look forwards to the most, yet the other three are more important.
Anyway, enough talk of the future for now. We will arrange a team structure and working arrangements once the last patch is out.
If you're not sure you can do consistent work on the project, maybe we could trade off who does each patch. For example, you do the first update, then Aeon does one, then I do one, or something like that.

Just won my first Cultural victory pretty easily on Monarch as England, thanks to the 10000 point limit (thanks, Rhye!)


10000 seems a bit too few. I think I'll raise it to 11000 or 12000

10000 seems a bit too few. I think I'll raise it to 11000 or 12000

i concur. i started a new game as the arabs yesterday and i'm looking towards getting a one-city cultural victory before turn 300. however, it's regent-level...

i have to say, also, that the balance on the arabs feels good. production not as high as, say, germany (mecca 18 spt at size 10, berlin 25 spt at size 10), but a bit more room to develop.

however, this further highlights the egypt shortcomings. thebes only gets 10 spt at size 10, and the three most common first-city sites for egypt all offer less spt than that!

if i were to tweak this, i'd suggest something like 1 food or 1 shield for all desert tiles that only opens up with egyptian polytheism, that is, link the bonus to a tech only egypt gets, that way only egypt benefits, not someone who takes over their territory (should that happen).

EW

ps - is there a strat guide of arabia? i'd consider taking that one on, if no one else has it!

if i were to tweak this, i'd suggest something like 1 food or 1 shield for all desert tiles that only opens up with egyptian polytheism, that is, link the bonus to a tech only egypt gets, that way only egypt benefits, not someone who takes over their territory (should that happen).


Good idea! Egypt has always been underpowered in my games. In fact, every country in Africa has been underpowered, even if they are contacted early by European nations.

INCANS

Space Race Victory in 2037 :king:

It was a triumphant finish, filled with some excitement, as I really had to take thing in my own hands if I wanted to be sure to get the Ship up in time… The world kept involved in the Big War :( , research was not their priority, I guess.

England attacked me out of the blue :sad: sometime in the end of 20th century, and I had to spend money to buy alliances to keep those pesty little arrogants off of me… Yet, there were times when I had 4-5 nations against me. Oh, sometiems they gave my troops some gymnastics along our coasts… ;)

One interesting intermezzo was Mecca: this Arabian city suddenly reached a Cultural Victory in 2019! Oups… :sad: I reloaded (ashamed), but had only auto-save, so I had to solve things in 5 turns! Transported troops of tanks and mech. inf. with arties got it made, just in time. There was even a sea-blockade I had to break through at the straits of the Red Sea!
Mecca destroyed, no other city could get near 10 000, so I was safe to have it my own way...

It was a great, great game, to me it really proved the beauty of this mod!
:goodjob:

P.s.: SUGGESTION:

I would suggest not to raise the threshold of Cultural Victory, this 10 thousand CP-barrier is fine – the AI now CAN win this way…
BUT
In this game, Japan had the most culture as a country, a little more than 30 thousand… Well, shouldn’t be this level (now 40 thousand) be lowered to 30?
Arguments: do not take into account how easily the human player reach it – if does, the human wins anyway… But if lowered to 30 (say), then it may be another interesting feature to play AGAINST: then even a peaceful human builder (like me with the Incans) must pay attention to this AI-victory and do some preventing war – things that cause some stirring in a calm and uneventful game…

Opinions?

Well, it would make sence if the points for an OCC should be higher in RoCX than in RoC, considering the higher number of GWs.

ps - is there a strat guide of arabia? i'd consider taking that one on, if no one else has it!


There was - but it is completely out of date now, as balancement has changed (it was rated 2.5 of of 5), the 1st UU has changed, and wonders are an important new factor.
You can take any part of it - the result will be EK + Horton as authors. Try to keep the guide of the same length.



If you've ever heard the expression "haggle like an arab trader" you'll understand what it takes to compete as Arabia in Rhye's.

The Arabs begin with an interesting dilemma, they have no fresh water within range of their core but there is an overabundance of natural resources and luxuries within easy reach. As Abu Bakr, you must figure out how to harness all of these resources while overcoming slow population growth and meager production.

The Arabs have a weak trait combo in Religious and Expansionist. Cheap temples and fast revolutions are helpful but overall religious pales in comparison to most other traits. Expansionist is ok in the early going and you'll have a great chance at picking up a free city or settler from the huts near your start but after the mid ancient age Expansionist runs out of steam. The good news is that you have an excellent UU in the Ansar warrior, a 4/2/3 knight that will absolutely rule the Mesopotamian if you plan ahead.

Your first goal as Caliph is to begin securing the abundant supplies of incense and horses that dot the Arabian peninsula. The Egyptians, Persians, and Ottomans can be excellent trading partners if you invest some time into contacting them. The nearby Sumerians and Babylonians should be viewed as early victims and with their large, flood plain fueled cities within striking range, they are an excellent source of slaves and territory.

You're going to start out rather isolated and it may be hard to contact the Euro civs so be prepared to fall behind in tech. Don't worry because later in the game you will have so many surplus luxuries and resources that you'll be able to trade your way back into contention. Arabia is well situated to be a major broker of incense, horses, saltpeter, dyes, camels, and elephants. Trade wisely and you'll have half the world begging to be your friend.

Militarily your only regional rivals are the Persians and Ottomans. Deal with Xerxes first as Persepolis is an excellent manufacturing base and also the gateway to India and plentiful rubber. Be sure to carve out enough of Egypt to secure a city on the Suez for quick naval access to the Mediterranean and stockpile your horseman for the day you can unleash a mass ansar strike on the ottomans. Before long you should find yourself in control of all the Mid East and Asia Minor and in position to take on the Euro civs.

The Arabs also make a decent peaceful builder civ because you won't face the threat of strong neighbors eyeing your territory and you have the potential of founding 3-5 good infrastructure cities around your core. Whatever your playstyle, your will find the Arabs to be a challenging and rewarding civ to play.

Well, it would make sence if the points for an OCC should be higher in RoCX than in RoC, considering the higher number of GWs.

While OCC should be a little raised, the other one could be lowered but I'd like to know what's the highest score you've seen in 1.1, with religious civs that use monuments with 3cpt.

If it is only 30000, I'll put 35000, if it is 35000, I'll put 38000, etc.
The only shame is that I liked the round values 10k/40k, but balancement has the priority.

Rhye, do agree with my idea that when estimating levels of CP Victory, the most important important factor is how the AI can reach it - and therefore the effect it has when the human plays against the AI that reaches it...? I guess it should be positioned so that one or two cities or country reaches it aroiund turn 350-370, so the endgame has some more excitement.

My first proposal is:

1.
keep the 10 000 for city
2. and 2/b.
30 000 or 33 333 for nation's C. Victory

Hey why don't you join the current member photos thread?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=54655

I'd like to see your faces ;) In my imagination Blasphemous has a face of a flower, Jaguar has a face of a woman, Aeon is dressed like a Immortal, etc. :lol:

In that case a lowered population and terrain dominance could increase the excitement even more. Now it is 40 and 30. It could be 35 and 25. Together with 10k/35k (just to say a round value) for the cultural

In that case a lowered population and terrain dominance could increase the excitement even more. Now it is 40 and 30. It could be 35 and 25. Together with 10k/35k (just to say a round value) for the cultural


Absolutely. :)
Again, just let's see what the AI can achieve in this - and then think about to combine it with what is our goal is with the setting...

For dominance: I can imagine it even lower than 35/25 - again, I believe that the main goal should be to have the game challenging and interesting for tha human player - so the human should meet "danger of AI winning... :)"...

I do not think I ever have seen an AI getting near the domination limit in RoC/RoCX. So, I would keep it high as a challenge for the player (Not that 25% is not high in RoCX :) ). The 40% population, however, does not seem a problem, it is achievable with a 15% land coverage of, more or less, pop. 5 cities.

:( This mod means plays as fun game not ?

I don'nt play mods for fighting

:( This mod means plays as fun game not ?

I don'nt play mods for fighting

What do you mean? :confused:

Of course, me too, want the game to be fun!

But I say we need challenges in the game, galloping to the end from early-industrial age with no serious AI contestant is all nice but fun, too? I hold that doubtful (esp. with the longer loading time that develop in late game)

Now, one may suggest me to move up a diff. level if I need that much challenge but, hey, I say that the game RoC/X is tuned to be most realistic on emperor level, so I think of fine-tuning it with that keeping in mind...

I've tried Micromegas's installer. It's really good.
Now after the patch I'll merge the 2 readmes into one, and you'll have to guide me a bit about the license thing.
I'd like to use a different icon, too. I'll see if I can draw it.

I also think that the installer should contain the "Expanded" only, with no biq for basic RoC.

Hey, I tried to google for the answer but couldn't find any, so I'll just ask...

Why is the turn limit in RoCX 400? And why won't it let me increase it at all? Talking about a random map, and I set the turn limit to 1000, and throughout the game it showed me (in the victory status screen) that max turns was 1000. But at the 380 mark it still popped up the "mandatory retirement year" popup and suddenly there were only 20 turns left... I mean, I like playing looong games, ones that would go till modern times, but in RoCX I can hardly manage early industrial even in a huge map with this turn limit... Is there any way to go around it?

McM

Hm, are you playing the random map? I have no experience with it...

Yes, like I said, a random map, huge...

McM

If you're not sure you can do consistent work on the project, maybe we could trade off who does each patch. For example, you do the first update, then Aeon does one, then I do one, or something like that.
Oh, I can be consistent and passionate and all, I've just had bad experiences with me trying to spearhead a project and nobody being interested in it (which won't happen hear) and me eventually forgetting about it. That happened at least two or three times with mods that I wanted to make.

Huge map you said? What difficulty level?

The problem's in the tech rate, not in the game length.

Huge map and monarchy. But I think 400 turns is a bit... well. little. I mean, in the normal game huge maps have 540 turns..

McM

Rhye, I sent you mail...

What do you mean? :confused:

I mean that i play Civ 3 as game and not for competition :D .

I mean same for your mod .

For the problem of tech rate ? May not make 8 .biq (4 random and 4 world map) dedicated to an unique difficulty level ?

Example : i should choose "Rhye's Regent Expansion World Map" .biq for play the world map with my favourite fair "Regent Level"

Do you understand ?

Yes, my sir :D !

Thanks to Soma, the first guide has been posted! Hurry to see how Incans can win!

p.s. The new strength is 2.5, instead of 1 (RoC)

Besides, I like kinda regulating the science level as I go... If I really lag behind in tech, I usually cripple those who are leaders in science if I can, usually through alliances and such, and thus keep the tech going slow... I like some games to go to 2050 still at middle ages and some to be in modern times by 1700.

So more than just changing how fast science is developed Iäd like to just be able to set the amount of turns in the game... 400 is far too little if I want to go far with tech...

McM

400 turns is a key point in the loading times reduction. All the tech costs were adapted to that length. In the Earth map. With random maps, things become more difficult to adjust, because there's more variation. The tech rate I gave are approximations, I may have set something wrong.

Here is the victory screen for my current game at Emperor level, playing as Portugal. I am using the latest version of RoCX. Japan at this point has the most cultural points as a country. Athens leads the city cultural race. Right now I am in the process of capturing Athens.....:)

Ok, while I play the scenario, a messege comes up saying that a certain sound file is missing. If you need an screenie to help, tell me.

Ok, while I play the scenario, a messege comes up saying that a certain sound file is missing. If you need an screenie to help, tell me.
We have to see the error message (or more specifically the path of the missing file) to help, so a screenie would be good.

Gah. :( If its always 400 turns then this mod takes a hit for me.... I like it otherwise a lot... its gold, but the 400 turn limit isn't good for me... ah well, great job anyways :)

McM

What's the problem with it being 400 turns, are you playing on Emporer, the time frame will be right if you play on that level, at least it is for me.

Gah. :( If its always 400 turns then this mod takes a hit for me.... I like it otherwise a lot... its gold, but the 400 turn limit isn't good for me... ah well, great job anyways :)

McM
It's not that hard to change it yourself you know... Just peek into the editor and you should find it pretty quickly...
The mod is mostly designed around the world map with an attempt to both load quickly and be historically correct. Because of this there are 400 turns. It's really plenty in the regular version of the mod, I never bother with the random version.

Errr... I've never used editors (for civ) before.... you mean the base map editor? Where would one find the rules in that? For if its a simple thing to change, I will be extremely happy, I really like playing random games, and I really like the RoCX ruleset and units, so it would be great if I can change it easily..

McM

Havent posted here in a bit, but just to prove I am still alive (and on break ;p) here I am!

Since none of the current discussions are about things I want to weigh in on, here is something I AM interested in:

1) We are going to have to do some MaJoR changes to Civs for time periods! How are we getting graphics for all the changes?

2) Who wants to do the research on the various time periods we decide to model? Anyone near a major library (Library of Congress, NYPL, anywhere in Paris ;p) would be best!

3) Choice of time period: How are we going to choose? Lotto? Voting?

4) Who gets the final say in other tough decisions (like what the stats should be of a hotly contested unit)? Since we do not have an originator (like Rhye) working with us, I say voting... but others may disagree.

5) Is anyone a unit creator/ friends with one?

6) Who is opening the thread (and when and where?)?

7) I refuse to head a/the/any team. I'm a rebel against authority; it would kill my self image to even be considered as an authority figure ;p

8) I GOT INTO EMORY! WOOO HOOO! ;p

Ok, while I play the scenario, a messege comes up saying that a certain sound file is missing. If you need an screenie to help, tell me.

Please post a screen ASAP

Havent posted here in a bit, but just to prove I am still alive (and on break ;p) here I am!

Since none of the current discussions are about things I want to weigh in on, here is something I AM interested in:

1) We are going to have to do some MaJoR changes to Civs for time periods! How are we getting graphics for all the changes?

2) Who wants to do the research on the various time periods we decide to model? Anyone near a major library (Library of Congress, NYPL, anywhere in Paris ;p) would be best!

3) Choice of time period: How are we going to choose? Lotto? Voting?

4) Who gets the final say in other tough decisions (like what the stats should be of a hotly contested unit)? Since we do not have an originator (like Rhye) working with us, I say voting... but others may disagree.

5) Is anyone a unit creator/ friends with one?

6) Who is opening the thread (and when and where?)?

7) I refuse to head a/the/any team. I'm a rebel against authority; it would kill my self image to even be considered as an authority figure ;p

8) I GOT INTO EMORY! WOOO HOOO! ;p

My suggestions about this:

2) I can offer some feedback after you've chosen the period. Anyway, if you're using the world map, some choices are better than others: Age of Discovery, Belle Epoque, WWI or WWII. But you can always use another map. I have a small Europe in case you need.

4) You'll have to vote. With me it wasn't despotism, it was constitutional Monarchy! ;)

5) Do you remember my requests? Even with your support, nobody ever did anything I asked. All their efforts go to WH, RaR or to unfinished projects.
Don't hope that the unit creators will change their mind.

6) I think it's better if you don't open a new thread until the new year so that we don't interfere.

finished my game as arabia last night, some thoughts (big and small):

1) i achieved one-city cultural victory at turn 286 (1868 give or take) in mecca, earning a whopping 85 culture points per turn at the end. considering the AI reached 10k in mecca in another game, i think raising the limit is necessary. i could have reached 18k without any further cultural developments (ie wonders), so even 20k is probably not out of reach. that said, it might be too high for the AI, and probably has a lot to do with religious wonders (see below). assuming we modify these, i'd say 15k one-city is a stretch, but do-able.

2) the 3 islam wonders give a real cultural advantage if you can get all 3 in one city. not only are they worth a bucketload (10 culture all up - 3, 3, 4 - if i remember correctly), but they will easily hit the thousand year mark and double later. perhaps we should go through all the religious wonders and total up culture to be the same for each branch. for example, if the pyramids (the only ancient egyptian religious wonder) are worth 4, then perhaps the 3 islam wonders should be worth 2, 2, and 3 respectively - slightly more than the single wonder to account for the greater build necessary, but not so much more that it's unbalanced.

3) i wasnt pushing total civ culture, but i was pop-rushing monuments in every city as i founded/took it. so although my total civ culture was only around 23k, it could have been a lot higher if i had been going for it. that said, i've never seen an AI come close. i'd say 35k for total civ culture would be good, but that's just a guess/feel.

4) i'd agree with the other comments about reducing the domination victory conditions. in my game with germany, i had everything from london to lisbon, trondheim to constantinople, madrid to moscow and still wasnt even close. the problem isnt population, it's area. i'd lower world area to 20%, leave population higher though (40%?), as the high settler costs mean the AI is always short population (for some reason, they seem to keep around tons of extra settlers "just in case!")

5) i disagree that the primary consideration for victory conditions should be adjusted to make the AI more competitive. the sad fact is that the AI is completely non-strategic - it absolutely does not move towards any victory condition with the single-mindedness of a human. as such, we'll never be able to set victory conditions in a way that help the AI remain competitive without making it too easy for the human.

on the other hand, i have a personal dislike for the way c3c difficulty levels increase. above regent level the AI simultaneously gets bonuses in both static areas (eg corruption, production) and dynamic start (eg extra units). i'd much prefer the start bonuses to be smaller in favour of better static benefits for the AI. that way, you're not so much chasing at the higher difficulties, but rather planning and strategising to remain at parity.

6) on that note, i feel that the palace guard gives plenty of advantage to the AI to prevent early warrior rushes, and that the added penalty of no worker for the human is overkill. perhaps this should be linked to difficulty level: at regent and below, the human gets the starting worker.

7) i should also note that i absolutely love the naval movement change. i wound up in a colonial war with japan, where my singapore and australian colonies were under fierce attack, and having galleasses (galleai?) with sufficient movement to not only get there, but to search and engage in a single turn was just brilliant. it also gave japan an edge in starting the war because out of nowhere 3 ships dumped troops into australia and declared war before i could intercept their ships!

8) i also love the various unit upgrade paths. this has led to some real strategic decision-making and greater realism.

9) i couldnt hear the sound on the cavalry attack animation. i'm not sure if it was very soft relative to the defenders' sounds, or just not present. is there anything we can do to adjust this?

sorry for the longish post, hope this sparks some ideas.

EW

Thanks. Let's see:

1,2,3) I'll have a look.

6) Unfortunately it can't be done unless I make a biq for each difficulty level.
Anyway it's good to see that I've killed the rush! :)

9)I'll check.

Not sure how accurate it is, but I read once that the AI plays to stop the human winning (not trying to win themselves). Creates an interesting paradox if we adjust the stats to help the AI's chances of winning, so we can meet the challenge of stopping them, when in fact they're really only trying to stop us winning!

6) Unfortunately it can't be done unless I make a biq for each difficulty level.
Anyway it's good to see that I've killed the rush! :)


how bout going the other way? rather than giving the human back the worker, how bout taking away the AI's worker?

oh, and one more thought on the arabs. the horse archers upgraded through to cavalry, but that meant building all my ansars from scratch. since the arabs have more cash (through trading) than production power, it meant not building many at all. should the upgrade path be different, or did i miss some other unit that upgrades to ansars?

EW

Rhye, Mecca is way too powerful right now.

My sister has a game going where the Arabs have 4(!) wonders in Mecca by turn 217. It's almost triple the culture of the nearest AI city.

The Arabs in general are also still a little too powerful.

Rhye, Mecca is way too powerful right now.

My sister has a game going where the Arabs have 4(!) wonders in Mecca by turn 217. It's almost triple the culture of the nearest AI city.

The Arabs in general are also still a little too powerful.

It's a shame no one ever tries to invade Arabia early. I find that they're fairly easy to conquer.

Yea, I always invade them as Israel. I go on a holy city quest.

how bout going the other way? rather than giving the human back the worker, how bout taking away the AI's worker?

oh, and one more thought on the arabs. the horse archers upgraded through to cavalry, but that meant building all my ansars from scratch. since the arabs have more cash (through trading) than production power, it meant not building many at all. should the upgrade path be different, or did i miss some other unit that upgrades to ansars?

EW

No, some civs won't build any worker, so they must have the worker at the beginning.

Horsemen upgrade to knights, so to Ansars

Rhye, Mecca is way too powerful right now.

My sister has a game going where the Arabs have 4(!) wonders in Mecca by turn 217. It's almost triple the culture of the nearest AI city.

The Arabs in general are also still a little too powerful.

Yes you're right

Am I the only one having the game crash? I get

Missing Entry in Scenarios\Rhyes of Civilization|text\Pedialcon.txt\ANIMNAME_PRTO_Gren zer

I also got the same crash looking for a Shifta

anyone have any ideas..would appreciate it

Horsemen upgrade to knights, so to Ansars

doh! that's what i missed. i'll have to keep that in mind for my next knight-based UU game.

another thought (sorry to be all over the place here): as the arabs i didnt have iron at all and didnt miss it until cannons came along (at which point, persepolis was looking mighty tasty ;) )

which leads to my question: have we undermined the importance of iron too much?

:Roughing56 - it'll be a prob. with one of the (5) zipped files. I watched for error messages when unzipping (using winrar) and noticed one of them was missing a file. I redownloaded that zip and this time it was complete. Would've been easier to note the exact name of the file and ask for it here (I suppose). But I could be wrong. Look in the last 5 (?) pages for a link to the installer by Micromegas.

Iron should not be so ridiculously important! No one has ever started a war over it in the real world because it is so darned easy to find.

Oil, on the other paw, is a little too prevalent in the mod. I would like to see some really major reductions on its availability because, as is, I rarely need to battle/trade for the stuff. And Germany having oil in its borders seems a bit odd. I know there is oil in the North and Baltoc Sea areas, but I distinctly remember Germany invading the USSR in WWII because it was experiencing a shortage of oil.

Anyway, its not really major. Its not even something I would change myself ;p

aeon - i'm not suggesting we make iron as ridiculously important as it is in c3c, but rather giving it some importance. otherwise, it might as well be a bonus resource, not strategic.

i do agree with you about oil, though.

I see that we are adding the SoL. What are the stats (and resources) for it and when does it become available, and upgrade to?
Thanks!

Nice to see Aeon's And Enkidu's thoughts on improving the mod! :)
I myself would also like to take part in future tweaking with it, say, development.

Now, about victory conditions:
I am sad to read that it may be that the AI doesn't plan to win but only to play against the human. And I see that conditions shouldn't be so low and easy that the human player wins in one of the ways TOO easy and soon.

And yet, just how do you feel when at around the age of Industrial Age or before you already can take in for granted that you win? Is the game still fun in the endgame?

This is the VERY reason I argue for conditions that make it so that the AI nations get close to a victory of some kind while the human player's nation is also being in the contest.

As now, to me it seems that either the human is killed or the human wins (on emperor).

Rhye, I see you put the guide up. :) Please correct some of the typhos I left in:

near the end:

"(wich you build up still east of the Andes) will serve as a big war-machinary.
Oh, and those workes you capture:"

wich - which
workes - workers

Also:

"(somewhere east of the south end of the southern desert valley that is along the coast at your starting location. "

put in a closing bracket. Thanks.

Am I the only one having the game crash? I get

Missing Entry in Scenarios\Rhyes of Civilization|text\Pedialcon.txt\ANIMNAME_PRTO_Gren zer

I also got the same crash looking for a Shifta

anyone have any ideas..would appreciate it


Let me guess...

You are playing RoC only, no expansion. And you have an out-of-date version, older than 2.62 and you updated it with 2.62_to_2.66 patch. Right?

[QUOTE=V. Soma]Rhye, I see you put the guide up. :) Please correct some of the typhos I left in:

near the end:

"(wich you build up still east of the Andes) will serve as a big war-machinary.
Oh, and those workes you capture:"

wich - which
workes - workers

Also:

"(somewhere east of the south end of the southern desert valley that is along the coast at your starting location. "

put in a closing bracket. Thanks.[/QUOTE

Done

I see that we are adding the SoL. What are the stats (and resources) for it and when does it become available, and upgrade to?
Thanks!

It is A/D 5/5, 8/22/22 movement, 8/1/2 bombard. It comes with Naval Tactics and upgrades to Cruiser

The updated changelog. It contains some new thing that must be tested. Like the repositioning of oil to a more important location. It can affect AI strategy of settling, so I still have to check.

- Palace Guards now immobile
- Trebuchet no longer available to Rome
- Partisan no longer wheeled
- USMC now has ranged attack animation
- Added Ship of the Line, available with Naval Tactics
- Galleass now upgrade to Ship of the Line
- Changed Galleass, Cog, Frigate, Gallivat, Galleon, Man-o-War, Privateer, Turtle Ship, Ironclad and Carrier stats
- Increased cost of all the industrial and modern ships except Transport
- Secret Police HQ now causes an unhappy citizen in all the cities
- Raised culture per turn for some wonders (Pyramids, Artemis, Mausoleum, Izumo)
- Alchemy now requires Siegecraft too (so that Metallurgy is discovered later)
- Physics moved to the top of the medieval tech tree, after Humanism
- Humanism now requires Printing Press
- Military Tradition now requires Magnetism too
- Naval Tactics requires Mercantilism too
- Reduced Firearms, Military Tradition, Flintlock and Naval Tactics cost
- Tuned Arabian, Egyptian and Babylonian strength
- Deleted one barbarian unit near Babylon and changed one near Rome
- Deleted two horses in Russia
- Deleted two oil near the Baltic and Norther sea, and added one in the Ruhr
- Deleted one rubber in Africa and two in South America
- Slightly decreased disease and plague strength (80)
- Tuned victory conditions (15k/35k, 25%/40%)
- Fixed Civilopedia entries (Mustangs, Galleon)

Rhye, do you remeber that tile in South America just east of the Andes and ca in level with the mustang that seems to be a grassland graphically, when it is a marsh in fact?

Can it be corrected? I again was fooled to it when playing Incas...

Oh, and I posted my part to the Viking SG this morning... :)

As I think of it, the AI will never reach the 15k/35k threshold :(, with 15/35, so we intend this kind of victory only for the human player to be reached?

Rhye, do you remeber that tile in South America just east of the Andes and ca in level with the mustang that seems to be a grassland graphically, when it is a marsh in fact?

Can it be corrected? I again was fooled to it when playing Incas...

:confused:
I fixed it much patches ago...it was a problem with the marsh graphics.

As I think of it, the AI will never reach the 15k/35k threshold :(, with 15/35, so we intend this kind of victory only for the human player to be reached?

Hey you all pushed for this. I'm just doing what you asked.

You all said that 10k was too low and that 40k was too high!

Hey, no, I, for one, always said it should reamin at 10k, and also think that either 30k or 33k should be for the other, Well, I would vote for 30k...

In this case (10/30), when being the strongest OVERALL civ, and going for spaceship or diplo-victory - the AI's culture would be of some element to count with...

Rhye, that marsh-tile: still looks very green and grasslandlike... can you check it out and put in a picture of it here, so others could judge it?

well, I don't remember what tile it was. I can't distinguish anymore. Is it a real problem?

Dear Rhye, no, it is not a "real" problem, but I try to search this tile to show you... :)

err, do you have a big enough jpg-version of your map?

One more thing I noticed that might be clarified in the next patch: The civilopedia entries for both Republics do not mention the standard trade bonus they get. I was fooled by this and did not switch to Ol. Rep. when it came around and only later, when I noticed that Dem. Rep. did not say anything about it either did I check the Editor. Maybe this could be included into the pedia entries?

One more thing I noticed that might be clarified in the next patch: The civilopedia entries for both Republics do not mention the standard trade bonus they get. I was fooled by this and did not switch to Ol. Rep. when it came around and only later, when I noticed that Dem. Rep. did not say anything about it either did I check the Editor. Maybe this could be included into the pedia entries?


"This allows the
people substantial personal and economic freedoms, producing an increase in $LINK<commerce=GCON_Commerce>."

Hello,
I developed a spreadsheet of Buildings, Civs, Gov't, Terrain, and Units for this mod. Its current upto what's available on Rhye's website (except for the complete SoL).

If you download it and find mistakes (although there won't be 1 :lol: ) please post again with corrections!

Thanks and Enjoy!

No, some civs won't build any worker, so they must have the worker at the beginning.


Isn't there a way to fix this, like check the worker button in the build often field?

Isn't there a way to fix this, like check the worker button in the build often field?
The civs that don't build workers aren't supposed to build them. And I'd rather have the setup we have now since the difficulty seems very well balanced. No need to make it easier for us mushies.

Hey, no, I, for one, always said it should reamin at 10k, and also think that either 30k or 33k should be for the other, Well, I would vote for 30k...

i think you were in the minority, soma.

whilst i understand your arguments - that by having win conditions that give the AI a chance, the sad reality is that the AI never goes for the win conditions; the AI just tries to stop *you*. with that in mind, it makes the most sense to set win conditions that ask the player to stretch to achieve them.

to paraphrase another commenter, if we set the win conditions low enough for the AI to stumble across them, the player can easily have a win locked up late in the middle ages, which makes the remainder of the game pointless.

i suspect we'll have to agree to disagree on this :)

EW

The civs that don't build workers aren't supposed to build them. And I'd rather have the setup we have now since the difficulty seems very well balanced. No need to make it easier for us mushies.

to be clear, i wasnt suggesting getting rid of the worker altogether - just at the lower difficulty levels (ie chieftain-regent).

remember, not everyone will play ROCX at emperor level, despite the tuning and recommendations of the developers. :)

i dont believe having separate BIQ files is a reasonable answer, so if anyone has a more creative solution, i'd love to hear about it.

EW

My game continues on Emperor level as the Portuguese. I think if everyone tries Emperor level we would get a better idea on how the game progresses. I really don't think it is that hard if you do some micromanaging and take your time. At the lower difficulty levels it seems it can become too easy to win and the game soon becomes boring. Since Emperor level is how the game was developed, then that is how I will play it. I don't consider myself a good player...just patient and enjoying this superb mod....:) Thank you Rhye and the others that helped!!!!!!

I am sorry to post it here but our Vking SG is kind of stagnant...

Jaguaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr

I started an RoCX as

BABYLON

(got it to play by random)

Wow, this is great! Again, a true historic feeling, as I had a turbulent and lively ancient age, following history. Babylon was a great nation in the ancient age IRL, and I did not want to stay behind.
With the Bowman UU I took Jerusalem first and then destroyed Israel. :D

The coming Golden Age gave me a big army, which I used to declare war on the Ottomans.
(Reason: I had a free settler up north, at the shore of the Black Sea, and by Golden Age I had two cities there. Getting the Ottoman cities I could connect that two cities with home luxuries.).
The Ottoman war was terrible… :( I had lost many bowmen to those damned palace guards! :cry:
(Rhye might be satisfied!)
But finally I had reached my goal – it was the end of the Ottomans :D
just as GA was over, too.

At the dawn of Middle Age I ruled the River Valley and the Black Sea, government was in monarch. Next it was up against the Byzantines, to complete my rule of the Black Sea, and to gain more nice territory. This war was much smoother, with horse archers and catapults – and allies all around Byzantine. I gained 2 cities, Theodora may have another city somewhere, as she is still alive…

I have 11 cities as now (AD 750-800), a nice territory, some 6500 gold and a lead in tech and power.
(the biggest AI nations has 6 cities and around half power)

Hey, I think I could write up another guide! ;)

You're welcome. There is no RoC guide for Babylon, so it's entirely up to your judgment.

Hi!

1. Sorry for my bad English :)
2. Great Mod, but its too easy, if you start as a european country.
At the moment I am playing on emperor, started as Germany. In the beginning I had problems with the Barbarians, but after a few turns I conquered Austria, the Netherlands, France and Russia.
When approaching to the middle age I had 12 cities and the game became boring, because all my enemies only had 2-4 cities. I think 32 Players are too much for 170x170, because the AI players havent enough cities to compare with a human player even in higher difficulty levels.

Err, Swat, a civ can do just fine with 4 cities. One of the best things about Rhye is that a nation's chance at victory is not so much based on the size of their territory. I've seen small nations put up very good fights in war, tech, culture, pretty much everything.

Err, Swat, a civ can do just fine with 4 cities. One of the best things about Rhye is that a nation's chance at victory is not so much based on the size of their territory. I've seen small nations put up very good fights in war, tech, culture, pretty much everything.


Correct me , if I am wrong:

more cities = more production

The cities of my enemies have a size of 4-8 and my cities have a size of 10-12. And even in this mod a civ with 4 good cities cant compare with a human player who has 10+ good cities! After reading your post I declared war on Spain, Portugal, Rome and Northland and destroyed them all within 20 turns.

Have a try, start with Germany or France on emperor, tech on Warrior Code and only build archers. You will see, that this is much too easy.

Have a try, start with Germany or France on emperor, tech on Warrior Code and only build archers. You will see, that this is much too easy.

I think that you are only playind on normal ROC, in the X-pack Archers are defensive. Also, in the X-pack it is much harder to beat smaller, but developed civs.

@Swat: If you're playing on RoC then whatever - I haven't played in the non-expanded mod since devlopment of RoX started, and I doubt I ever again will. I know that in RoX the size of a nation is not always directly reflective of that nations strength.
(And if you're talking about RoX, I'm now in the modern age playing as Germany, and I have conquered pretty much all of northern Europe and will soon move onto the rest of the continent, but I am aware that a war with my three next victims at once would spell doom for me, and none of them is even close to my size.)

Blasphemous is right. In my games Greece is always a technological power, yet they have few cities and the cities they do have never go above size 10.

Blasphemous is right. In my games Greece is always a technological power, yet they have few cities and the cities they do have never go above size 10.
Exactly. Greece and England are the best examples - both very powerful nations with little territory (as AI England doesn't really colonize as much as it should.)

Jaguaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr
Be right there.

Hello,
I developed a spreadsheet of Buildings, Civs, Gov't, Terrain, and Units for this mod. Its current upto what's available on Rhye's website (except for the complete SoL).

If you download it and find mistakes (although there won't be 1 :lol: ) please post again with corrections!

Thanks and Enjoy!

HH - what an awesome reference! thanks :)

if i could make one suggestion - i really like how you organised the units on the sheet "good one", by land/sea/air. if i could suggest: it might be nice to organise within these by upgrade path. as in land/off, land/def, land/bal, sea/sail, sea/row, etc.

i realise that with the flavour units and such it wont be a simple linear progression, but i think it's possible to pull together the relevant ones for more clarity for the new players.

well done :)
EW

edit: the same might also be done for civs (by cultural group) and governments (by paid/forced, ordered by discovery)

@Swat: It's pretty much known that the European civs are easier. Give yourself a challenge and play one of the harder ones, like the Zulu. If you go well and enjoy it you could even write a strategy guide for them ;) Play RoCX though.

@homer: i'm doing the re-organising i mentioned now. i'll post it later for you to see

@Rhye: i'm noticing some things in the upgrade path that might need tweaking. for example, the samurai, tercio, and swiss mercenary all upgrade to musketman. this means a loss in attack for all 3. i'd suggest upgrade to fusilier instead. both (mm and f) eventually go to rifleman, so it's the same "path" but it allows the UU to enjoy a longer stay and not upgrade "backward"

i'll highlight any others i find as i go.

EW

Swat->If your success is due to a rush, I highly recommend the expansion. However the difficulty changes heavily from civ to civ. Many use monarch when playing American civs or Zulu, or use Demigod when playing as Rome, France, Germany or England.

homersheineken->I hope to release the next patch tomorrow. I have still to find a final solution to the random map tech rate problem. But when I post it, I'll include in the readme.txt the list of the units which stats have been changed. It will be very easy for you to catch them and update the sheet.
After that, I'll upload it on the site.

@homer, corrections:

*samurai, tercio, and swiss mercenary all upgrade into fusilier, not musketman (apologies to rhye, he had already done what i suggested - it was the spreadsheet that was wrong)

*partisan upgrades to shifta (i note you did not add all 4 flavours of some units, which is probably why it's not listed correctly - the listing in the sheet is from the first incidence of partisan which upgrades through each of the other flavours of partisan before coming to shifta)

*shifta upgrades to guerilla, not machinegunner


@rhye: what do you think about upgrading cavalry/cossack into modern paratrooper? that is actually how the 7th cavalry evolved for the US, from custer's day to viet nam (great book by the colonel called "we were soldiers once, and young" that details the evolution of cavalry to "air cavalry")

new version of the spreadsheet below (note that additional sheets with original information have been hidden, if you are looking for them), with the organisation i described earlier. enjoy

EW

Here it is everyone, I know you've been waiting for it eagerly: THE ENGLAND RoX GUIDE!

Finish off your tea, grab your red coat and get down to the shipyard, it's time to "Make the World England."

In RoX, England is a top tier civ that will handle beautifully no matter your play style. With one great UU to rule the seas and another to defend your island fortress and many colonies, the English make a strong case for all of the victory conditions.

England’s traits, Seafaring and Expansionist, fit perfectly with the aggressive colonization strategy you should take with this civ. Also the increased ship movement in RoX really makes a far-flung empire possible. The combination of cheap settlers, fast ships, and the dominating Man-o-War will allow you to get a huge head start on getting those prime colonization spots. The AI won’t know what to do when it sees that you have taken all of its usual colony spots. Because of your awesome potential for colonization, it is absolutely essential that you build the India Trading Company quickly in one of your home English cities. Your Forbidden Palace should probably build built (rushed if possible) in your highest potential colony city.

In the early game, you should make a conscious effort to build a scout boat and make contact with the mainland ASAP. Also you need to remember to get to and build a city in Ireland before the pesky French do. You don’t have to go straight for Map Making, but you should probably get it after you switch a decent government. Also keep in mind that the French will build a city on the SW tip of England if you don’t build a city there first. But it isn’t so bad to let them build a city there and just take it from them. If you dominate the seas as you should, the French will present almost no threat to the lovely British Isles.

After securing all of your home islands, try building a city somewhere on the Scandinavian Peninsula if possible, because it makes and excellent starting point for your eventual conquest of the Vikings. They, along with the Dutch are usually just begging to be properly anglicized. Do them a favor and oblige them early, as their cities can become quite productive.

Some good news is that the British Isles will supply you with most of the resources you'll need. Iron, Horses, Saltpeter, Coal and even Oil are right in your backyard. Just like the rest of the Euro civs however, you're going to have to work to get some rubber. As always, the West Coast of Africa and Northern South America make prime real estate for your rubber plantations. Pick your spot carefully and you can probably get the extra benefit of some gems, or even better spices for your India Trading Company.

If you can build some infrastructure at home, get a European beach head, and get a few colonies for resources, then you'll be in great position to take the seas with your Man-o-War/Colonial Marine combo and begin invading the AI anywhere you see fit.

England's only real drawbacks are that as an island nation, many wonders that add infrastructure will be of limited use and you're going to have plan ahead to get your troops where you want them. These are minor annoyances though and with a little luck you'll rest easy knowing the Sun never sets on the British Empire.

5/5

BABYLON
(RoCX)

750-1340
THE AGE BEFORE SAILS

After the Byzantine-war, Theodora was left with one city, all Europe was chasing it and it finally fell – poor girl, Theodora. But, oh, did I care?
I had my eyes set on Greece, those lovely two cities I badly wanted. 10 horse archers and 3 trebutchets made my army. Sparta fell easily, but Athens… uhh, again, a hard nut to crack… but by 1150 I made it.
I have beside my home valley the whole Balkan and the Black Sea!

I turned to ol. republic and some building period came.
Around 1250 I had The Blacks Stone and The Holy War!
Also a Forbidden Palace to help my by now quite big (12-14 cities) empire.

Meanwhile, Arabs and Persia grew strong!
Especially Persia catched up significantly.
And at once Persian troops entered my territory, close up my cities!!!
Not with a cake in their hands, for sure!
Uh, I promptly had do something (my troops were far in the western border) – I declared war on Egypt, and called in Persia and the Arabs…
Phew, I was saved, at least for the time they finish off Egypt.

It is an interesting situation now, the Islamic countries being so strong!
I have to make better relations with my fellow neighbours!
In 1340: our first caravel is about to sail off to bring a settler
to far off lands…

Gunner, you said you don't have to go straight for Map Making but are you sure you meant that and not Sailing? (I don't remember if RoX even has a tech called Map Making. =X)

Yes I corrected it to Sailing.

Thanks Gunner, excellent job.
So, is it now 5/5 instead of 4/5?

Rhye, when will you put up the new patch? This very day? :)
I am here for another, say, 2 hours...

I don't think so. I'm very busy today and I've still to test how the world map works with the lastest changes.
Furthermore, I noticed that BeBro is posting great cavalry units these days. If you can wait some more day, we will benefit of some new animation.

BTW I've posted the English guide and I'll soon complete the FAQ page.

Babylon next guide? :)

Yes, I will do the Babylon guide, though it is a complex case, the player can head off to many directions... I will write it after Xmas...

Oh, I, for myself, can wait, for sure... :)

Oh yeah sorry, its sailing not map making. Whichever one gives you ships which can transport.

And I do think England is 5/5 because it really is so easy to dominate in the middle and industrial ages. The combination of getting lots of colonies, Scandinavia, the Dutch, and a very nice home island is amazing around then.

Hey all,

First of all I'd just like to say great mod! I've been looking for a more 'real' civ for ages this fits the bill perfectly.

I do however have two technical problems: The mod has installed fine and I can play it but there is no date? It just says Nov. on the panel at the bottom right of the screen and does not change. If i go to a city view the top bar says Nov. continuously? Can I fix this somehow? It makes saving the game and tracking my progress through the years quite dificult?

Also in the pereferences screen, everything seems to have been moved up 2 spaces? For instance to animate battles I have to check the box two above, but clicking the labled animate box changes something else, units above cities i think? Can I also fix this somehow?

Regards L

@lil old me - You need to get the latest patch of C3C I think.

@Rhye - You probably already know this, but the mod site is down. Not a big deal though.

-> Yes update to the last patch of Conquests (1.22)

-> The site is down and I don't know why. It happened after I updated the FAQ. But I'm not the cause

thanks guys, saw the patch on the civ3 site but it was for the american version had a search about and found the uk one :) or at least one on a uk site.

homersheineken->You should use 3 columns to rate naval movements. You can see the values for each unit in the pedia

@homer, corrections:

*samurai, tercio, and swiss mercenary all upgrade into fusilier, not musketman (apologies to rhye, he had already done what i suggested - it was the spreadsheet that was wrong)

*partisan upgrades to shifta (i note you did not add all 4 flavours of some units, which is probably why it's not listed correctly - the listing in the sheet is from the first incidence of partisan which upgrades through each of the other flavours of partisan before coming to shifta)

*shifta upgrades to guerilla, not machinegunner


@rhye: what do you think about upgrading cavalry/cossack into modern paratrooper? that is actually how the 7th cavalry evolved for the US, from custer's day to viet nam (great book by the colonel called "we were soldiers once, and young" that details the evolution of cavalry to "air cavalry")

new version of the spreadsheet below (note that additional sheets with original information have been hidden, if you are looking for them), with the organisation i described earlier. enjoy

EW

@Enkidu_Warrior -- Sorry about the upgrade mistakes. All i had to work off of was the .bic file and they weren't always correct (due to flavour units -- I know that a Spearman doesn't upgrade to a Spearman ), so a guess was made :)
I had the Units organized by Era (that's what the lines were for) without labeling the Eras. I probably should have. I like the idea of classification by upgrades though. I like the changes to the Civs and Units tabs!!!!
Nice

@Rhye -- unfortunately I can't access the Pedia since i don't yet have conquest to run the mod (unless there is a way to view without it). "Santa" will let me see in a couple of days :lol:

Rhye, when do you plan to put out the next/final patch?

@Rhye -- unfortunately I can't access the Pedia since i don't yet have conquest to run the mod (unless there is a way to view without it). "Santa" will let me see in a couple of days :lol:

You can open civilopedia.txt

Rhye, when do you plan to put out the next/final patch?

Today I came across unexpected problems - I found that the American horse archer attack anim is completely wrong. I spent some time looking for a solution, then I surrended and assigned the east asian animation to them.
I've added also new anim for middle eastern lancer and horse archer, african horse archer and euro worker.
The patch will be called 1.2, as the list of the changes got wider.
As this chapter is over, and I've found satisfying tech settings for random maps I can now come back to tuning the Earth biq.
If everything's allright, I can post it tomorrow morning.
Otherwise, well, I'll slip to the morning of Xmas or the 26th.

Please tell me if there are grammatical errors here:

http://rhyesciv.uw.hu/faq.html