It seems that there is a problem with the new European worker. Here's a pic of the error.

EGYPT! :)

I just have a game with Egypt in RoCX 1.1 where I am on the winning track! :)
I have Mecca by cultural conversion, and lead in tech and gold in the middle of the Industrial Age. By pure money and science I manage to be quite healthy and have hopes to get a Diplomatic Victory! :)

It seems that there is a problem with the new European worker. Here's a pic of the error.

:confused: I have that file, and the patch contains that file. Have you installed the patch correctly? Which version did you use to start the game?



EDIT: wait! I guess: you didn't patch to 1.2, and downloaded the fixed pediacons for 1.2 that I posted in the SG thread. Correct?

This mod is AWESOME! I've been a Civ 3 player since the day it came out, having purchased the original, PTW, and Conquests the day they were released. But I haven't played a full game in months because of all of the little annoyances in playing Civ3.

Maybe I'm just lucky (playing a Random map RoCX as the Arabs) but this mod has really improved my gameplay experience more than PTW or Conquests did over the original. The gameplay is much more sane, there is much more interesting stuff going on, and the AI can be competetive enough to disallow my dominance even at Monarch level!

Thanks Rhye! I doubt I'll be playing any other version of Civ until Civ 4 comes out.

Be sure to try a game with the Earth map - the mod grew up around it. ;)

EGYPT! :)

I just have a game with Egypt in RoCX 1.1 where I am on the winning track! :)
I have Mecca by cultural conversion, and lead in tech and gold in the middle of the Industrial Age. By pure money and science I manage to be quite healthy and have hopes to get a Diplomatic Victory! :)

Good, I'm looking forward to the guide. How do you rate Egypt?

i dont know if anyone else is in the same boat, but i've already done some extensive editing of the biq file to customise my ROCX random map scenario. could you be specific about which unit flags are changed and how, so that people like myself can implement the necessary changes?

EW

Changes in v1.21:

- Fixed European worker civilopedia pictures and description
- Old savegames (game started with v1.1) now compatible
- Atomic Bomb no longer triggers a golden age
- Fixed stealth attack targets for Submarine, Nuclear Submarine, Stealth Fighter, Stealth Bomber, Kamikaze, B-52

Egypt: 2 on a 5 scale

I will write guide for Babylon and Egypt, OK? :)

Actually I did patch to 1.2, that was my first game in it. I also had the thing you put on the succesion game.

I will try the new 1.21 hopefully that will work.

It seems that all of the illiterations of 1.2 have no units in them, is that correct?

By the way, when all of this gets fixed I plan on playing a game as Russia and writing a guide.

All right everyone, please excuse my previous posts and the extreme incompetence associated with them.

What I had been doing was just redownloading part 5 everytime there was a patch. I now realize that I have to redownload the 4.5MB thing instead to get the units.
Everything is now working [party]
Might want to make what I just described more clear on the first page.

Dear all

I had some problems with the RoCX latest version.
At some point, the game just hangs up and doesn´t work no more,
without any error message.

First time was in a game playing the Spanish, it broke down 350bc. The same occurred the next game playing as the English in 550bc.

Has anybody encountered similar problems?

What I have done is that I have added one more building that comes with invention, and 6 units in the industrial era, so both shouldn´t have an effect since they come much later in game.

Pls help and advice, thanks!

Loco

I encountered the same issue in my games. The game works just fine, then it just doesn't move on to the next year. In my games (happend in three of them) it happened while computer was "thinking" after unit movements around 1000AD. Was playing games on Monarch with no personal modifications (other than adding back some regular hills). These issues were encountered using 1.01 and 1.1, but I've not played a new game since updating to 1.2 and 2.67.

ok, stupid question....

When updating my games with the new patches, I assume that i just click on "And then update it with the lastest patch (v1.2, 4.5 MB)" to get the latest pach from 1.1 to 1.2 in RoCX and "Update v2.62_to_v2.67 (3 MB, doesn't include previous updates)" to get from 2.66 to 2.67.

Or do I do something else?

thanks

Yes you must do both the things.

Good, then I am doing it right. :D

I just realized something else. Since the leaning tower rewuires walls, doesn't that mean that it can only be built by a small town?

hey guys, i had a problem and was wondrin if you guys could help me out.

after downloading and gettin all of the rhye parts in i fired up the scenerio only to get an error message about ancient settlers and art. any idea what i need to do to fix this?

ok, well i figured out, i got 2 diff start areas for it, woops. go me :goodjob:

[QUOTE=Barak]I just realized something else. Since the leaning tower rewuires walls, doesn't that mean that it can only be built by a small town?[/QUOTE

why?

- Fixed stealth attack targets for Submarine, Nuclear Submarine, Stealth Fighter, Stealth Bomber, Kamikaze, B-52[/B]

by fix, do you mean add missing stealth attack flags for new units?

sorry to be a pain, i just want to make sure i get it right.

EW

edit: does this also mean turn on the stealth flag for the units from the above list that dont already have it checked?

I just realized something else. Since the leaning tower rewuires walls, doesn't that mean that it can only be built by a small town?


there was something like that in the middle ages conquest scenario where the crusader fort wonder (forgot name) can only be built by towns... or so i think

edit: does this also mean turn on the stealth flag for the units from the above list that dont already have it checked?

No I didn't do it. Is it necessary for the correct working?

by fix, do you mean add missing stealth attack flags for new units?

sorry to be a pain, i just want to make sure i get it right.


yes

No I didn't do it. Is it necessary for the correct working?

sorry, i have no idea. i've never worked with stealth units before (in the biq file that is).

i notice that existing units in C3C with stealth ability have checked specific units in the list, the key exclusions being for king units and great leaders. so it would seem to me that yes, this is necessary.

it also raises an interesting possibility for kamikazes - that their stealth ability only impacts (no pun intended) sea units.

EW

I just realized something else. Since the leaning tower rewuires walls, doesn't that mean that it can only be built by a small town?

I have built it in a pop. 10 city. You just need to built walls while it is a town. Happy christmas and new year to you all.

Hi all, this is my first post in this thread, and my first post in general for a very long time. I was actually finished with Civ 3, having played the game for a long time......but then I read about RoC, and it brought my Civ 3 back to life

My biggest compliments for a extraordinary piece of work, Rhye. Your mod has made me play Civ 3 again

I do, however, experience a little error. I am playing RoC 2.67 and RoCX 1.2, and are playing America. I am way behind i Techs, and traded a MPP with the Germans for a bunch of Thechs and 34 gold per turn (they had their back against the wall;-)). I saved my game, and the next time i loaded, I had the Techs i traded, but the 34 gold per turn was not an active trade, and i had a big deficit on my budget......

Does anyone experience this?

@Ramboost: Maybe Germany lost their last harbour or started new wars with their neighbours, so they no longer have access to harbours.

That could very well be an explanation...........I haven't thought of that. I was busy trying to find flaws in Rhyes masterpiece;-)

I won't correct any more flaws :) (unless big ones). This patch contains the last ones, spotted thanks to the teaser.
I wanted to leave for holiday with everything working.
I'll leave tomorrow morning to the lake of Como/Lecco and I'll come back the 2nd.


This is the changelog of the lastest patch, just posted:

Changes in v1.21:

- Fixed European worker civilopedia pictures and description
- Old savegames (game started with v1.1) now compatible
- Fixed stealth attack targets for Submarine, Nuclear Submarine, Stealth Fighter, Stealth Bomber, Kamikaze, B-52
- Atomic Bomb no longer triggers a golden age
- Fixed Impi (now in the spearman-to-pikeman upgrade chain)
- Jaguar Warrior now available from the beginning. Aztecs no longer build warriors
- Jaguar Warrior now has blitz and its cost is increased to 20
- Armoured Warfare renamed Armored Warfare
- Updated Civilopedia entry for Jaguar Warrior and Armoured Warfare
- Fixed Leaning Tower civilopedia entry
- Tuned Aztec (+), Mayan (+) and Iroquois (+) strength

@Ramboost: Maybe Germany lost their last harbour or started new wars with their neighbours, so they no longer have access to harbours.

I haven't played RoCX yet, but I don't think it matters. A loss of harbors shouldn't affect GPT deals. Only deals for tradeable items - resources and luxuries.

looking for
Art\Units\euro scout\euro scout.INI

spelled exactly like that

for some reason (I downloaded all the files) I cannot get this (or 1.2) to work. I just started all the updating today because I noticed that it was all backwards compatible.

euro scout folder must be inside \Rhye's of Civilization X\art\units.

Can you see it?

oh by the way, "full compatible" is not comprensive of the wrong arrows in the medieval tech tree.

I haven't played RoCX yet, but I don't think it matters. A loss of harbors shouldn't affect GPT deals. Only deals for tradeable items - resources and luxuries.

I will try to research this next time I have time to play.

Another question: I am playing America on the standard RoCX earth map, and are experiencing corruption with 14 cities. I built the Forbidden Palace, and it helped a little. I thínk I read somewhere that the optimum cities in RoCX with a Palace is ten cities. What is the optimum cities with Forbidden Palace?

It's ten cities for the AI. It is lower for the player, it depends on the diff. level.
I don know the effect of the forb. p.

Can someone help me? I'm getting this message:

http://members.optushome.com.au/samlwin/Image/Error.JPG

I have basic RoC mod v1.66 and ExRoC v1.01

If I want to play just v1.21 ExRoc do I really need to get latest basic RoC update too???

Ok I went to your site and went to FAQ and it said try and reinstall the original? Reinstall what? I think this was a modpack? I didn't install anything in the first place.

Nevermind, it's working perfectly now. :) Love the map.

@ramboost - there's a good article in the strategy section of the forums explaining how corruption works. essentially, corruption has two components: the number of cities you have and distance corruption.

distance corruption is calculated for each city and is based on the distance of the city to the city with the palace (ie your capital). however, if you build a forbidden palace, then instead of using distance to your palace, distance corruption uses the SMALLER of distance to palace and distance to forbidden palace. so a forbidden palace can help you create a second core of highly productive cities with reduced distance corruption.

in that sense, the forbidden palace and SPHQ dont strictly add to your optimal number of cities, but rather reduce your distance corruption.

as far as i know, there's no improvements that will change corruption based on number of cities - this number is coded into the biq file.


@player1 - yes, you should update both, as the ex-pack uses many of the same units and animations in the basic modpack.


@rhye - how did you make the changes to the turns of anarchy during government transition? i noticed in the random map that the maximum of 2 turns per civ is no longer active, but that religious civs still take 2 turns. i'd like to change this to match the earth map scenario.

EW

edits: for clarity... i hope!

Can anyone enlighten me on the strenght of Constitutional Monarchy?

Compared to Absolute Monarchy it has slightly lower corruption (difference bewteen probelematic and nuisance is very low) and paid labor. For that, it pays much harsher unit upkeep (especaily since every unit costs 2gp) and less MilPolice.

On the other hand compared to Democratic Republic, higher number of supported units is insignificant since it does not have trade bonus as demo. Also, while it has lower war wariness, taking Absolute Monarchy instead is a better choice.

So am I missing anything?

@ramboost - there's a good article in the strategy section of the forums explaining how corruption works. essentially, corruption has two components: the number of cities you have and distance corruption.

distance corruption is calculated for each city and is based on the distance of the city to the city with the palace (ie your capital). however, if you build a forbidden palace, then instead of using distance to your palace, distance corruption uses the SMALLER of distance to palace and distance to forbidden palace. so a forbidden palace can help you create a second core of highly productive cities with reduced distance corruption.

in that sense, the forbidden palace and SPHQ dont strictly add to your optimal number of cities, but rather reduce your distance corruption.

as far as i know, there's no improvements that will change corruption based on number of cities - this number is coded into the biq file.


Thanks. I just thought I remembered that corruption was altered in RoCX compared to the original Civ. But I guess the same rules applies til RoCX as to the original? But what does "Corruption set to 40/41/42/44/46/48/49/50% (depending on the difficulty level)" mean, taken from Rhye's website?

Ok, I just realized that democracy pays 3gp per unit.
So compared to it, better unit support is good.

But still, I can't see it get used exempt if you really like paid labor type of rushing (and warmongering in same time).

BUG report:
French Musketeer has AI offense flag selected.
And unit has just attack rating of 2???

Several other AI flag suggetsions:

Elephant Archer should really not have defense AI flag selcted.
It's just too expensive for its era to be used for defense.
That's just same as adding to knight in vanilla game defense flag since it has same defense rating as a pikemen.

On the other hand War Elephant is OK, since it is much cheaper.

Cossaks should not have AI defense flag selected. Leave that to Fussilers which have better defense rating (see knight reference).

Swiss Mercenary should have Offense AI flag added. They have attack rating of 4 after all (better then Pikemen in all ways).

TOW Infantry should not have Offense AI flag selected. They have just attack of 4.

Spearmen used by Ethiopia does not have AI defense flag. It should be added (BUG).

Considering its cost, could it been good idea to add AI offense flag to Chineese Firelancer? It has attack rating of 3 and cost of 40, same as Pikemen, but better defense.

Considering that Inca Clubman is in swordsmen upgrade path shouldn't it have AI offense flag added and AI defense flag removed (since there are much cheaper defenders).


P.S.
Something not AI related:
I'm kinda lost about this, but is it wise having Jaguar Warrior costing 20 shields and in the same time ban 10 shield Warriors from Aztec (and by the way, blitz for unit with attack rating of 1 is not big deal).

in that sense, the forbidden palace and SPHQ dont strictly add to your optimal number of cities, but rather reduce your distance corruption.

You're quite wrong. Starting a few C3C patches ago, the corruption model was slightly changed. FP and SPHQ now reduce corruption in their city by alot, and increase the OCN by a good margin. I think they don't even affect nearby cities directly anymore.

You're quite wrong. Starting a few C3C patches ago, the corruption model was slightly changed. FP and SPHQ now reduce corruption in their city by alot, and increase the OCN by a good margin. I think they don't even affect nearby cities directly anymore.

Actaully, not quite.

Distance corruption is still affected by FP.
As is OCN factor.

Only difference is that city rank (needed for calculating OCN corruption), is now only calculated by comparing cities to Palace only, not both FP and Palace.

That way FP affects OCN globaly (OCN bonus), but not localy (the closer city to the FP the lower rank).


So, since even OCN corrption is in some way dependent from distance, you could say that "distance factor" of FP is lowered, and its global factor is increased.

It is kinda confusing, since both distance corruption and OCN corruption usually depend from distance.

I am totally confused now.......

I think my questions are now boiled into:
1) Are the corruption rules only changed for AI, when you compare RoCX to original Civ. Or is the corruption rules also changed for the human players?

2) When having an RoCX empire with approx 15 cities, would it be worth it for me to build a new Palace and FP that is more in the center of my empire?

I am totally confused now.......

I think my questions are now boiled into:
1) Are the corruption rules only changed for AI, when you compare RoCX to original Civ. Or is the corruption rules also changed for the human players?

2) When having an RoCX empire with approx 15 cities, would it be worth it for me to build a new Palace and FP that is more in the center of my empire?
With 15 cities, just switch to Communism, build an FP and SPHQ (doesn't matter where when under Communism) and enjoy a productive empire all around.
If you don't have Communism available, than yeah, try to place your Palace and FP so your entire empire gets to be nearby them and enjoy their effects.

You're quite wrong. Starting a few C3C patches ago, the corruption model was slightly changed. FP and SPHQ now reduce corruption in their city by alot, and increase the OCN by a good margin. I think they don't even affect nearby cities directly anymore.

sorry, blas, i was simplifying for brevity. thankyou to player 1 for clarifying further.

strictly speaking, the FP and SPHQ operate in ROCX just as they do in C3C. so if you understand the dynamics there, they are the same here.

regarding corruption in comparison to C3C:

- distance corruption in ROCX is grossly reduced (around 40-50% in the ROCX biq file, compared to 90-100% in C3C), making distance less of a factor in corruption.

- otoh, the optimal number of cities is reduced drastically, only at only 10 (and worth less as higher difficulty levels are used), making size of empire more of a factor in corruption.

conceptually, i believe rhye was trying to make corruption more realistic: small, efficient empires, with few, far-flung colonies can be quite viable, whilst a large empire, whether it is contained within contiquous borders or not, is prone to rampant corruption.

EW

edit: @ramboost, as you can see from the above, corruption is changed all around in C3C - for both AI and player. as you use higher difficulties, it will become more of a factor for the player than the AI, but the dynamics are the same.

Thank you for all the answers, that pretty much clarified what I didn't understand.........:-)

Another bug I found:
Persian Mobile Towers can't be loaded on ships.
That's beacuse they have mistakently selected Unload flag instead the Load flag in the editor (they are not ships after all).


By the way, aren't Moble Towers just too versatile units. You can attack, defend, bombard and defensivly bombard. All for 20 shields (although not as cheap as Immortals).
Unfortunately, since unit has just AI Artillery flag slected all that Ai can do with it is use it as regular bomber (which means sitting in the town for most time). Maybe it would be got to just lower its attack rating to 0, so player won't get too big advantage compared to AI Perisans.

euro scout folder must be inside \Rhye's of Civilization X\art\units.

Can you see it?

No, I checked right away. I do not have this unit in my files. Was it included in a previous patch? I usually keep up to date, but being at home has left me clearly behind ;p

Constitutional Monarchy is most useful for the long range naval powers with tons of cash. It allows you to improve and defend your smaller population posessions more effectively than a citizen rushing government would.

It is not really useful for the bloodthirsty warmonger, but not everyone likes a bloodthirsty game ;p

I don't know was this discussed previosuly, but is there a point to have AI restrictions on random map?

While things like having Zulus build no Workers makes sense on Earth map, since you want to get historical Earth, I don't think it makes sense on random maps where every civ should get fair chance.

Also, some catch up wonders like Statue of Liberty could get very unbalanced if available to everyone.

Hey.. This is a great map and I'm wanted to play this game for a while. But now I'm having a lot of trouble trying to play the game. I managed to 'install' the mod into my game, and it is shown there. (also, in my edit). But, now I seem to be missing a whole of things, such as 'Holy_War' and so on.

What do I need to go with the giant list of items given to me after downloading and extracting them. Do I need to extract each item to it's specfic location? Where would I put sound?, or amination?, or.. say terrian? I'm a complete idiot when it comes to computers.. is there a link I can see that tells me what to do? :(

Have you got the latest patch for normal RoC, have you even got normal RoC?

Rhye,
I just looked over the old Camel issue.
As I have seen (I might be wrong) you got one Camel Rider in the mod.
After looking at a fine Mameluk Camel rider with both sword and archer I saw that in the Knight-era you got the Cataphract from Kinboat as an egyptian knight3. Wouldn't it be more historical to pick that Mameluck horse-archer, since during the time 1100-1500 the Mamelucks ruled Egypt.
Keep all the stats but put in another KnightXX with the animation of this Mameluck rider.
Just a hint if any new patches are to be released, and if not a hint to many that fancy a little bit of colorful flavours to their units. The Persian Cataphract is a little more Persian to say the least and not just in Egypt.

Cemo

Vostos, if by normal, you are refering to the basic one and the expansion one then yes. I downloaded the basic one but my game crashed while trying to find 'Holy_War' and the 'Consitution'. But, after downloading and installing the expansion, my game crashed when trying to locate the 'Statue_of_Libetry'

@quovadis - when you install the mod and expansion, make sure you tick "use folder names" so that everything is installed in the proper subdirectories. (edit: i'm assuming you are installing with winzip, classic interface.)

@cemo - what you are suggesting would give egypt a third unique unit. in the latest expansion, each civ has two. it might be imbalancing to add as such without other changes. on the other hand, if it were just added as an animation "flavour", that might deliver to the color you desire.

Enkidu, I'm afaird I didn't see that option the first time. I have winzip, can you please tell me where that is?

@cemo - what you are suggesting would give egypt a third unique unit. in the latest expansion, each civ has two. it might be imbalancing to add as such without other changes. on the other hand, if it were just added as an animation "flavour", that might deliver to the color you desire.
Errr... That's precisely what he was requesting. He said:
Keep all the stats but put in another KnightXX with the animation of this Mameluck rider.

Maybe this sounds just like nitpicking but isn't flavour animation of western european Workers a little too low on contrast. It's coloring just looks a bit weird compared to other units (too "greyish").

Also Roman crossbowmen have no fortify animation.

And fortify animation of Roman Horse Archers is little bit low on framerate (same effect you get when playing civ on very slow computers, when animations are choppy).

Rhye didn't make the animations, so you can't blame him

Don't blame him.
But if there is some good animation maker out there, maybe he could volunteer to fix/upgrade some of anims.

Errr... That's precisely what he was requesting. He said:

i read "keep all the stats" as implying a new UU - a camel-riding knight or horseman, not as just an animation change.

cemo, if i misinterpreted your suggestion, i apologise.

EW

QuoVadis - here are three screen shots that might help.

the first, called "winzip screenshot.jpg", shows you the classic winzip interface. at the top is the extract button, circled in red. at the right is the directory structure i was referring to, circled in gold. once you open the downloads in winzip, you should see this window. all you have to do is click the extract button at the top.

the second screenshot, called "extract screenshot.jpg", shows the extract interface. on the left you'll see some options circled in red. all three that are shown as selected here should be selected on yours: 1) all files, 2) overwrite, and 3) use folder names. at the top you'll see the place where you specify where to extract to, circled in gold. be sure and select the scenarios directory under the conquests directory in your civ3 directory.

the third screenshot, called "directory structure screenshot.jpg", shows what your directory structure should look like in windows explorer, if you've done everything correctly. notice that there are 3 new directories for Rhye's mod, each with its own subdirectory structure. and in the scenarios directory you will have two new biq files.

hope this helps!

EW

edit: apologies for the delay in responding. it's been overnight here in australia. :)

Before I go any further, just want to say this mod is fantastic.

I've been plying it in its various versions for some months now and I don't even bother with vanilla civ now.

I'm currently playing expansion v1.21 on a random map, and as the French I have just taken a couple of cities from the Ottomans.

Their culture is not going up (stuck at zero) even though I've built temples and libraries in them. Even sacrificing captured workers doesn't give you a culture rise.

Didn't get this with the previous version of the expansion.

Can you investigate for me?

Thanks :goodjob:

Before I go any further, just want to say this mod is fantastic.

I've been plying it in its various versions for some months now and I don't even bother with vanilla civ now.

I'm currently playing expansion v1.21 on a random map, and as the French I have just taken a couple of cities from the Ottomans.

Their culture is not going up (stuck at zero) even though I've built temples and libraries in them. Even sacrificing captured workers doesn't give you a culture rise.

Didn't get this with the previous version of the expansion.

Can you investigate for me?

Thanks :goodjob:
Someone else had the same problem before, here's what I told them.
You're using a government that requires at least half of the citizens of a city to be of your nationality before the city can gain culture. I'm guessing the gov't you're using is Theocratic Monarchy.

Thanks - sorry to have double posted - I obviously didn't search the thread well enough. :mischief:

Thanks - sorry to have double posted - I obviously didn't search the thread well enough. :mischief:
Nah, it was pages ago, there's no reason to expect that everyone will read everything, I was just saving time by quoting myself. =P

i read "keep all the stats" as implying a new UU - a camel-riding knight or horseman, not as just an animation change.

cemo, if i misinterpreted your suggestion, i apologise.

EW

Hm,
I was just thinking on the animation. That's what I think I ment with keep all stats o/d/m and so on.
When the egyptians go to battle with their "knights" they show the Persian Cataphract that Kinboat made (I think).
What I ment was that a knight4 should be created (same stats as the rest) but using the Mamluk (Think Dom Pedro made that) on the camel. He has both archer and sword to select from.

So NO UU but only another animation creation to look more egyptians for that timeperiod. Mamluks ruled Egyptian at that time, correct

Cemo

Anybody noticed that both Atzec Eagle Warrior and Incan Clubmen have same stats, but Clubmen is more exspensive?

@player1 - there appear to be a number of cases where the UU stats/cost arent comparable across the civs. i would assume it has to do with Rhye's over-riding goal being to duplicate Earth history in the mod, and less to do with balance in the traditional gaming sense.

if you play a random map game, seeking to get away from the terrain LMs, you'll still have to play around these issues (similar, for example, to the AI instructions for each civ - even though you go random map, mongols still wont build workers).

EW

So NO UU but only another animation creation to look more egyptians for that timeperiod. Mamluks ruled Egyptian at that time, correct

Cemo

i stand corrected :)

Hello, I'm playing a RoCX random map, and I have a few questions and problems. My latest savegame is attached, if anyone wants to take a look.

1) Do I really have to wait until the development of bombers in order to destroy "stuck" barbarians (i.e. barbarians on jungle terrain completely surrounded by jungle terrain), like near Rostov on my attached savegame? I don't see any other way to do it...

2) Why can't I build The Slave Trade in Moscow? I have astronomy, tobacco is within its radius... what am I missing?

3) Where's the oil? I discovered combustion several techs ago, I have most of the world map and two deserts under my control, but there doesn't seem to be any oil. Am I missing something?

my best attempts at answers:

(1) i'm afraid so. i used to park a spearman or something next door hoping to taunt the barbs into attacking, but unfortunately no go. in the end, i started tweaking the random map biq around these issues. for your current game, there's no suggestions i can offer (other than perhaps using artillery while you wait for bombers...)

(2) the slave trade is set as a coastal installation - that means it must be built in a city on the coast. clearly this is a hold over from the standard map where tobacco is pretty much near coasts (particularly with america who, historically, would build the wonder). i'd recommend unticking the coastal installation flag in the random map .biq file. unfortunately, that wont help your current game

(3) it appears that oil in the random map requires trench warfare. i'm not sure how or why this happened, but i'm surprised that others didnt catch it sooner (including myself!). for your game, you'll need to learn trench warfare, then oil should appear. for fixes (or, at least, to match the civilopedia), i'd recommend changing the required tech for oil to combustion in the biq file.

hope this helps
EW

I may be interested at some point in writing a strategy guide for the Carthaginians if there isn't one already. With a fairly safe 4 city start and an amazing early UU they can/should focus on exploration right away. In my game on emporer I nabbed like 10 huts. Got a free city in southern spain, and a bunch of tech, gold, and many useless ones, but if luck had turned better I could have made out like a bandit. Those ships can take out all the barb mediterranian boats, establish contact with all the mid eastern and european civs, and steal huts from everyone. I got a hut in Greece, 2 in Spain, 1 in France, 1 in England, 1 in Scandanavia, 1 by the Black sea, 1 (or was it two?) in North Africa by my start, and a few more i'm forgetting. You basically start with galleys, which is excellent for trading and exploring.

Beyond that early trading/exploring boost, the Carts are below average. But if you can take advantage of that early tech lead, trade to your advantage, and get 1 (or two possibly?!) settlers out of it, you can make a decent run of it.

Couple of questions :
Korean Turttle ship have bombardment range 1 in the civilopedia entry, but in reality have bombardment range 0. Which one is correct ?
In industrial/modern age on the earth map the turns are <I>extremly</I> slow. I hav 3Ghz cpu with 1Gb memory. Is it normal for such a configuration , or I'm missing something ?
Are smoller map exist for this mod ? If I'll play on the small random map will game balance be screwed ?

@player1 - there appear to be a number of cases where the UU stats/cost arent comparable across the civs. i would assume it has to do with Rhye's over-riding goal being to duplicate Earth history in the mod, and less to do with balance in the traditional gaming sense.

if you play a random map game, seeking to get away from the terrain LMs, you'll still have to play around these issues (similar, for example, to the AI instructions for each civ - even though you go random map, mongols still wont build workers).

EW

Well, maybe it would be a good idea to lobby Rhye to make random map more fair (more UU balance and no AI restrictions).


By the way, I'm now playing Incas on Demigod, and I must say that I was a real lucky to get extra city from the hut.
Although I don't know how much is my Argicultural trait useful on earth map (exempt for cheap Aqueducts).
Historicaly they build Irrigrational systems out there, but since there is no river on western south america...

Anyway, maybe Industrial trait would be more proper.

Couple of questions :
Korean Turttle ship have bombardment range 1 in the civilopedia entry, but in reality have bombardment range 0. Which one is correct ?
In industrial/modern age on the earth map the turns are <I>extremly</I> slow. I hav 3Ghz cpu with 1Gb memory. Is it normal for such a configuration , or I'm missing something ?
Are smoller map exist for this mod ? If I'll play on the small random map will game balance be screwed ?

(1) turtle ship. it appears that, in the biq file it has a range set of 1, but does not have the unit action of bombard activated. this may be an oversight, but we may have to wait for rhye, or someone else closer to the unit basis, for more information. for now, effectively, it is a range 0, despite range being set at one.

if you want to change it to be an "active" range of 1, just go into the biq file and tick the bombard flag for the turtle ship.

(2) speed. ROCX does appear to be a bit slower than ROC as the game goes on. that said, a comparable game in C3C, with 31 civs and a 170x170 map would comparatively put you to sleep between turns. this may be small consolation, but ROCX is definitely an improvement in this respect.

(3) rhye actually has a 130x130 map available at his website. i'm fairly certain is was developed a while ago, without ROCX in mind.

that said, i tried it with the ROCX rules (as i much prefer smaller games) and have to say that it actually results in the worst of both worlds. on the one hand, you dont have all the LM tiles and bonuses around start locations, so the scenario does not run to earth historical accuracy like with the included map. at the same time, production is tuned to the larger map, and inclusion of all 31 civs, so you end up with imbalance issues on top of this, just as you described.

personally, i've been modifying the mod for a random map version that delivers to the game balance issues, but must admit that it strips away much of what makes ROCX what it is - slower development, earth history reflection, and faster load times.

so in that sense, using a smaller map or a random map will not retain much of the original character - which may disappoint a lot of people.

EW

Enkidu_Warrior, thank you so much for your help. I was never good at this computer stuff, just excessive memorization when it comes to useless facts.

Does anyone know whether it is possible to extent the 400 turn time limit on a game in progress? Or do I have to start a new game? Or can it be done at all?

I am playing RoC 2.67 and RoCX 1.2 on the earth map.

I am playing America on Emperor, and I lack behind in the first part of the game. We are now in 1998 and I am not even half way through the industrial age. I am nevertheless gaining on China who is leading, but I would like some time to finish all techs and enjoy being a REAL superpower;-) And I have turned off cultural victory, as I don't like playing a cultural game.

Finally, does anyone have a good strategy for America? I find it very difficult to keep up with the European and Asian countries in the beginning of the game. When I finally manage to speed up my research, it is usually too late. I started by destroying the Iroquis, so I have the north american continent by myself, but I am still too slow until we reach the Industrial age........My first wonder I was able to build was the Eiffel Tower.

I'm back.

No, I checked right away. I do not have this unit in my files. Was it included in a previous patch? I usually keep up to date, but being at home has left me clearly behind ;p

Yes it is inside one of the files

Vostos, if by normal, you are refering to the basic one and the expansion one then yes. I downloaded the basic one but my game crashed while trying to find 'Holy_War' and the 'Consitution'. But, after downloading and installing the expansion, my game crashed when trying to locate the 'Statue_of_Libetry'

Patch conquests to 1.22

Maybe this sounds just like nitpicking but isn't flavour animation of western european Workers a little too low on contrast. It's coloring just looks a bit weird compared to other units (too "greyish").

Also Roman crossbowmen have no fortify animation.

And fortify animation of Roman Horse Archers is little bit low on framerate (same effect you get when playing civ on very slow computers, when animations are choppy).

I didn't make the units! :)
I chose the best animations available in the forum, and fixed many oversized units, wrong offets, missing sounds, etc.
Unfortunately nobody's going to create units on purpose for RoCX.

Nah, it was pages ago, there's no reason to expect that everyone will read everything, I was just saving time by quoting myself. =P

I'll add your suggestion to the FAQ

Thanks. I just thought I remembered that corruption was altered in RoCX compared to the original Civ. But I guess the same rules applies til RoCX as to the original? But what does "Corruption set to 40/41/42/44/46/48/49/50% (depending on the difficulty level)" mean, taken from Rhye's website?

Here's what I mean:


- distance corruption in ROCX is grossly reduced (around 40-50% in the ROCX biq file, compared to 90-100% in C3C), making distance less of a factor in corruption.

(2) speed. ROCX does appear to be a bit slower than ROC as the game goes on. that said, a comparable game in C3C, with 31 civs and a 170x170 map would comparatively put you to sleep between turns. this may be small consolation, but ROCX is definitely an improvement in this respect.

(3) rhye actually has a 130x130 map available at his website. i'm fairly certain is was developed a while ago, without ROCX in mind.

that said, i tried it with the ROCX rules (as i much prefer smaller games) and have to say that it actually results in the worst of both worlds. on the one hand, you dont have all the LM tiles and bonuses around start locations, so the scenario does not run to earth historical accuracy like with the included map. at the same time, production is tuned to the larger map, and inclusion of all 31 civs, so you end up with imbalance issues on top of this, just as you described.

personally, i've been modifying the mod for a random map version that delivers to the game balance issues, but must admit that it strips away much of what makes ROCX what it is - slower development, earth history reflection, and faster load times.

so in that sense, using a smaller map or a random map will not retain much of the original character - which may disappoint a lot of people.

EW

That map was made with a conversion for Vanilla in mind.
It was made to contain 16 civs only.

I may be interested at some point in writing a strategy guide for the Carthaginians if there isn't one already. With a fairly safe 4 city start and an amazing early UU they can/should focus on exploration right away. In my game on emporer I nabbed like 10 huts. Got a free city in southern spain, and a bunch of tech, gold, and many useless ones, but if luck had turned better I could have made out like a bandit. Those ships can take out all the barb mediterranian boats, establish contact with all the mid eastern and european civs, and steal huts from everyone. I got a hut in Greece, 2 in Spain, 1 in France, 1 in England, 1 in Scandanavia, 1 by the Black sea, 1 (or was it two?) in North Africa by my start, and a few more i'm forgetting. You basically start with galleys, which is excellent for trading and exploring.

Beyond that early trading/exploring boost, the Carts are below average. But if you can take advantage of that early tech lead, trade to your advantage, and get 1 (or two possibly?!) settlers out of it, you can make a decent run of it.

thank you! Sooner or later the guide will be complete.




by the way, your work could be easier if you look at Horton's guide for RoC


Go get Dumbo's chainmail out of storage, it's time to get some payback on the Romans. Those first 3 Punic wars were just a warm-up!

Carthage is a challenging civ to play in Rhye's. If you've gotten fat and happy whooping up on the AI with one of the high powered Euro civs you're going to have to toughen up to win with Hannibal and company because the good old days of abundant resources and fast population growth are over! Your UU, the Numidian Mercenary is a tough 2/3/1 defender type that will keep your cities safe but might end up triggering a too early golden age so be careful with them!

Interestingly, while Carthage and England share the same traits, Commercial and Seafaring, the two civs play very differently. Unlike the English, Carthage runs out of quality expansion space real fast. Plan on only having 3-4 decent cities around N Africa. You're going to have to fight your way to a bigger empire instead of just pumping out settlers. Pick your spots carefully, you need at least 3 productive cities in your initial core if you're going to compete.

You're going to want to establish contacts as fast as you can because tech brokering is about the only way you're going to stay in the game in the early going. Expect the Euro bullies to demand tribute early and often. The good news is that you'll have quick access to camels and elephants so you can build a mobile force to repel landings.

With only a few cities to start with you'll have to really balance your production between units and infrastructure. You can help yourself immensely if you can finagle your way to the Temple of Zeus. Ancient Cavalry can devastate the AI and you're close enough to Iberia to quickly overrun the Spanish and Portugese if you can get a decent stack of units. This gives you a huge boost because you can pack 5-7 cities in Iberia that will be close enough to your core to be almost corruption free.

If you can keep the Euro AI landings to nuisance levels, expand along the N African coast towards the Suez and you can fatten up on the weak sister Middle Eastern civs like Egypt and Sumeria. Just hang on through the Ancient and Middle Ages and you'll be in position to control all of W Africa and the all important rubber resources. Once you've got Infantry you can invade Europe at will and let your Commercial trait ensure that you'll have a booming empire.
Every now and again you might even find yourself in the mood to take a break from ruling the Mediterranean with an iron first and head down to laugh at Caesar as he shovels out the elephant stables.



Many things he says are now obsolete (English traits, Num. Merc stats, Zeus and Ancient Cavalry) and it lacks the new things of RoCX (the bireme, the religions for example)

Hm,
I was just thinking on the animation. That's what I think I ment with keep all stats o/d/m and so on.
When the egyptians go to battle with their "knights" they show the Persian Cataphract that Kinboat made (I think).
What I ment was that a knight4 should be created (same stats as the rest) but using the Mamluk (Think Dom Pedro made that) on the camel. He has both archer and sword to select from.

So NO UU but only another animation creation to look more egyptians for that timeperiod. Mamluks ruled Egyptian at that time, correct

Cemo

I thank you for the suggestions, but there are some problems about this:

- I know DomPedro's animation, but I don't like it. It is oversized and it has wrong perspective.

- If you look inside the editor, you'll see that numbers 123456 mean cultural groups, with some exceptions. I never added a flavour animation for one civ only.

OK it seems I've answered everybody.

I'd like to thank Enkidu for his effort in helping newbies, and player1 fanatic for the feedback.
I have wrote them and I know there's much to be fixed, however I'll be very busy since now with real life studies.
So, no release date for the patch, but I'll make it, sooner or later.

OK it seems I've answered everybody.

I'd like to thank Enkidu for his effort in helping newbies, and player1 fanatic for the feedback.
I have wrote them and I know there's much to be fixed, however I'll be very busy since now with real life studies.
So, no release date for the patch, but I'll make it, sooner or later.

Hi Rhye, welcome back.

Do you have an answer to my post #5332? It was just 3 minutes before your first post today, so maybe you have missed it.

Does anyone know whether it is possible to extent the 400 turn time limit on a game in progress? Or do I have to start a new game? Or can it be done at all?


I don't think it can be done, unless you edit the biq before starting a new game.

OK it seems I've answered everybody.

Just checking have you seen feedback on Defense and Offense flag for some units?



P.S.
It's pity that some units, such as one mentioned Crossbowmen have no fortify animation. I hope that in some future someone would make better replacements.


By the way, I'm curios, how much is difficult to change a color contrast for some units?

OK it seems I've answered everybody.

I'd like to thank Enkidu for his effort in helping newbies, and player1 fanatic for the feedback.
I have wrote them and I know there's much to be fixed, however I'll be very busy since now with real life studies.
So, no release date for the patch, but I'll make it, sooner or later.

thanks, rhye. all too happy to help.

if i can make one suggetion - it is probably worth adding my post with the screenshots (#5316) to a FAQ or readme, as this seems to be a common question.

EW

ps - welcome back :)

Hi, First time on Rhye's, and very excited to start playing it. Downloading as we speak. The website was very impressive, and left me convinced of the virtues of playing this mod over my former favorite, RaR.

I do a lot of PBEM games with my brother, and besides playing RoC myself, I'm interested in doing a game with him. I wonder if there is a .biq out there that someone has already made, for this type of game. I'm thinking it would probably have the following civs. Forgive me if it sounds like I'm trying to ruin the game before I even start playing it.

N. Amer. (located around Mexico)
S. Amer. (located around Peru)
Africa (located around Ethiopia)
Mediterranean (located around Rome)
Northern Europe (located around France or Germany)
Eastern Europe (located around Moscow)
Central Asia (located around China)
Southern Asia (located around India)

I know this is WAY historically lopsided toward the West, with 3 European civs, but the Eastern Europe one would be both Asian and European, sitting on the continental border. For the most part, it would be a clash of races and culture groups, rather than a game of civs per se. The stinking 8-player limit is the culprit, don't lynch me for the forced choice. But I would really like to try the RoC map and ruleset with my brother, and this is the best solution I can find. If there is another, I'd be happy to know about it.

Thanks

hi camber - my wife and i love to play hotseat games, and unfortunately it just doesnt work well with ROCX. the problems i alluded to in my earlier post about smaller maps and random maps apply when trying to play ROCX with only 8 civs - the map may be the same, but the balance is all thrown out. and it only gets worse if you change civs' start locations (which you probably will since you'll want to play civs that dont necessarily correspond with the 8 start locations you mentioned).

if anyone else has had better experiences with these kinds of experiments, i'd love to hear about them.

EW

@Enkidu_Warrior -- Have you kept up with all the changes on the spreadsheet? I've been travelling the lasts couple of weeks for the holidays and internet access has been spotty at best. Also do you know if you need to all the v2.68 files as well as the Exp Pack 1.21 and install both, or just the Exp files. I finally got the Conquests so I'm ready to lose the next few weeks of my life to the game!!!!!!!!

hi homer - welcome back :)

no, i'm afraid i havent updated the spreadsheet. i did find a few more mistakes, but since no one seemed interested in the spreadsheet at the time, i didnt announce them here. i'm afraid they're lost in time now... one that was memorable was that colonial infantry upgrade to marine, which is notable because it basically mitigates the need for a modern land category - those are just part of the balanced category. another is that legionaries should be in the balanced upgrade path, not defense!

regarding installation, yes you should update the full ROC, up to and including the latest patch (2.68) as well as the full expansion pack, up to and including the latest patch (1.21) - of course install the ROC first, and ROCX second, so you can overwrite files in order.

good luck - and let us know how you go. maybe you'll feel inspired enough to take on a strategy guide, eh?! :)

EW

Game crushed on the attempt to switch production from airport to carrier in the Seul. Crush is reproducable in the save file. For some reason can not attach file, so I've save file uploaded here :

http://cellagames.com/demo61/00.zip


Also qouple of questions /opinion:
I have 5+ minuts between turns in later the industrial /modern age - is it as it should be ? ( I'm asking because I suspect there is a problem with my harddrive not realted to civ3 )

Are there any work for forking RoC for smaller map/16 civs ?
The mod balance is great (I remeber the balance in the original civ3...), would it be too dificalt to rebalance in the similar manner for smaller map and lesser number of civ?
the things coming to mind are:
slower ships (50% for 130x130)
more expensive workers (less roads)
increase units upkeep - is it posssible with editopr ?
relativly more barbarin placements and more difficalt to pass terrains - more difficalt contacts between civs

and about original mod :
Is it possible to do something to prevent AI from keeping hordes of obsolete units - especially for underdeveloped civs in the industrial age ? I suspect they slower game considerably.
Anower slowing factor is the road network : destruction of the road in the one tile cause the game think for about a minute..So is it possible to force AI build less roads, only there it's realy nessecary?

I was wondering if any have had any good experience playing any an North or South American civ (Inca, Maya, Aztec, Iroquis or America)?

I find it very difficult to maintain a high tech rate early in the game, and until the industrial age I seriously lack behind. The only way to keep up with the leadig civs on tech research is to trade 4 or 5 techs for MPP or aliances with a warmongering civ. But this forces me into a war that I am not always prepared for.

I really hope someone has some good strategy tips, as I am going absolutely CRAZY........and I am too stubborn to give up trying to win with an American civ;-)

Note: I do not play with cultural victory.

Edit: I just read the Inca strategy guide on Rhye's website. I guess early communication with non-american civs are very important, and after that it is trade, trade and trade those techs........

Just checking have you seen feedback on Defense and Offense flag for some units?

By the way, I'm curios, how much is difficult to change a color contrast for some units?

Yes I was refering to that.
Changing the contrast only is quite simple (but quite boring, too).

Game crushed on the attempt to switch production from airport to carrier in the Seul. Crush is reproducable in the save file. For some reason can not attach file, so I've save file uploaded here :

http://cellagames.com/demo61/00.zip


Fixed! With the next patch you'll be able to continue your game.

I'm sorry about that, I really don't know the reason for the Japanese Carrier animation not working anymore. I've replaced it.




Also qouple of questions /opinion:
I have 5+ minuts between turns in later the industrial /modern age - is it as it should be ? ( I'm asking because I suspect there is a problem with my harddrive not realted to civ3 )

In my commputer it is about 2 minutes.
RoCX is a bit slower than RoC for some unknown reasons. However, nothing compared to 20, 40+ minutes of any other game set in the Earth map.


Are there any work for forking RoC for smaller map/16 civs ?
The mod balance is great (I remeber the balance in the original civ3...), would it be too dificalt to rebalance in the similar manner for smaller map and lesser number of civ?
the things coming to mind are:
slower ships (50% for 130x130)
more expensive workers (less roads)
increase units upkeep - is it posssible with editopr ?
relativly more barbarin placements and more difficalt to pass terrains - more difficalt contacts between civs


My 134x130 map was made for a 16-civs game with vanilla. And it was left there, in the maps forum.
Well, if someone wants to take the job of updating the map with the missing reasources and importing and adapting ROCX rules....




and about original mod :
Is it possible to do something to prevent AI from keeping hordes of obsolete units - especially for underdeveloped civs in the industrial age ? I suspect they slower game considerably.



No. I've lowered the upgrade cost, but the AI doesn't seem to care.

hi camber - my wife and i love to play hotseat games, and unfortunately it just doesnt work well with ROCX. the problems i alluded to in my earlier post about smaller maps and random maps apply when trying to play ROCX with only 8 civs - the map may be the same, but the balance is all thrown out. and it only gets worse if you change civs' start locations (which you probably will since you'll want to play civs that dont necessarily correspond with the 8 start locations you mentioned).

if anyone else has had better experiences with these kinds of experiments, i'd love to hear about them.

EW


Same here.
After I leave completely, if anybody wants to make a tiny Earth map for 8 civs and make it balanced...

No. I've lowered the upgrade cost, but the AI doesn't seem to care.

Well, not all AI cities have barracks and AI knows to waste all thier money on buying the tech from the next best AI (leaving them broke for most time).

Not something that can be easily fixed, but personaly I think that low upgrade costs just favor human player too much.

Umm, just so you guys know, the reason I'm so inactive recently is that I have a major exam on Thursday which is making me both irritable and impatient (the phone would have driven me to suicide had it not stopped ringing after the first two rings) and busy. I'll be back to my normal hyperactivity at around Jan 18th (I have another major exam on the 16th which I'm not even 10% ready for, the second I get back from the current cause of distress on Thrusday I'm gonna start worrying myself over the next one. ><)

Umm, just so you guys know, the reason I'm so inactive recently is that I have a major exam on Thursday which is making me both irritable and impatient (the phone would have driven me to suicide had it not stopped ringing after the first two rings) and busy. I'll be back to my normal hyperactivity at around Jan 18th (I have another major exam on the 16th which I'm not even 10% ready for, the second I get back from the current cause of distress on Thrusday I'm gonna start worrying myself over the next one. ><)

Me too. Until the 10th.

Well, not all AI cities have barracks and AI knows to waste all thier money on buying the tech from the next best AI (leaving them broke for most time).

Not something that can be easily fixed, but personaly I think that low upgrade costs just favor human player too much.

Interesting.
An evil idea comes in my mind....
:devil: I'll test it before revealing it.

I don't know if this has been answered allready, but I find it impossible to look through 268 pages for the info :)

Is it possible to play this MOD in Multiplayer? Me and a friend is planning to play this scenario in the coming days, but as far as I can remember Multiplayer only support 8 players, including computers?

Hope you can answer!

Haavards, the question is awnsered 4 posts ago ;)

hi homer - welcome back :)

no, i'm afraid i havent updated the spreadsheet. i did find a few more mistakes, but since no one seemed interested in the spreadsheet at the time, i didnt announce them here. i'm afraid they're lost in time now... one that was memorable was that colonial infantry upgrade to marine, which is notable because it basically mitigates the need for a modern land category - those are just part of the balanced category. another is that legionaries should be in the balanced upgrade path, not defense!

regarding installation, yes you should update the full ROC, up to and including the latest patch (2.68) as well as the full expansion pack, up to and including the latest patch (1.21) - of course install the ROC first, and ROCX second, so you can overwrite files in order.

good luck - and let us know how you go. maybe you'll feel inspired enough to take on a strategy guide, eh?! :)

EW


I haven't played civ3 in over a year, and never Conquests or this mod and you want me to write a Strategy Guide :eek: :lol: Sure, I could do one. since I have no idea who I want to be, any suggestions???????
thanks for the install tips. I should start a game today/tonite.

Rhye, regarding your :evil: idea of increasing upgrade costs or limiting upgrade capabilities, this is what I do (with old RoC 2.6 (or is it 2.3?)):

* Upgrade Cost=4 (shields are worth 4 gold, 4 gold to buy a shield, upgrade costs 4 ... they are all equal).
* Barracks are deleted (replaced with a defensive establishment -- Castle, which just gives defensive bonus). Need to change Civil Defense so barracks not required.
* Harbor: no vet naval units.
* Airport: no vet air units, but provides +50% tax.

* Palace, Forbidden Palace, Secret Police HQ, Sun Tzu's (produces Armies), Military Academy and The Pentagon all produce vet ground, sea & air units.

--
I haven't updated to the latest RoC because I mod it too much (e.g., no artillery units), and you keep updating the latest version :D

Hi all!

See the website!!
And tell me what do you think about it!!

Thx..

Jaybe, what allows you to upgrade units with this setup?

Hmmm...
You could always make Palace count as free Barracks in all cities, and then make Barracks unbuildable.

Of course, that would help human too, not too mention free healing and vets in all cities (kills some strategic depth).

Hi all!

See the website!!
And tell me what do you think about it!!

Thx..


Very good! Expecially the scrolling news.
You included some mispells, too, but don't worry about that, I'll correct them.


by the way, update your signature, you're stuck with 2.4!! :lol:

Rhye, regarding your :evil: idea of increasing upgrade costs or limiting upgrade capabilities, this is what I do (with old RoC 2.6 (or is it 2.3?)):

* Upgrade Cost=4 (shields are worth 4 gold, 4 gold to buy a shield, upgrade costs 4 ... they are all equal).
* Barracks are deleted (replaced with a defensive establishment -- Castle, which just gives defensive bonus). Need to change Civil Defense so barracks not required.
* Harbor: no vet naval units.
* Airport: no vet air units, but provides +50% tax.

* Palace, Forbidden Palace, Secret Police HQ, Sun Tzu's (produces Armies), Military Academy and The Pentagon all produce vet ground, sea & air units.


Well, my idea was the opposite: free upgrades, but high barracks upkeep.
In this way AI should be more willing to upgrade, while it spends less money on trade because of mandatory manteniance for barracks.
I have started a test game but I saw nothing better in particular. There are junks and galleys around everywhere, in 1700 :(


--
I haven't updated to the latest RoC because I mod it too much (e.g., no artillery units), and you keep updating the latest version :D


Haven't you tried the Xpack?

I haven't played civ3 in over a year, and never Conquests or this mod and you want me to write a Strategy Guide :eek: :lol: Sure, I could do one. since I have no idea who I want to be, any suggestions???????
thanks for the install tips. I should start a game today/tonite.

If you want to write a guide, try one of the following: {Rome, Greece, Germany, Russia, China, Persia, Ottomans, Austria, Carthage, Netherlands, Byzantium}.
For those civs you only need to adapt the old RoC guide to RoCX

I didn't finished te site, but I work about 6-7 hour and I was tired. So now I play with the X-Pack. I have some new ideas with the site so don't change a lot of thing on it in this week or update the modification date corretly, thx...
Bye

Rhye, would it be possible to have a patch-file that upgrades the basic mod to latest from the phase that precedes it?
I mean, now: from 2.67 to 2.68... the 3MB is too big for a floppy... :(

it's simply the biq

Oh, thanks! :)

Now, another question:
What is the way to play in a way as only to watch the game go by only with AI players? So that I could test settings I make in the editor... that is, khm, to make a mod(ification) :)

I think you can change the debuger mod in the editor (maybe in the scenario settings panel) and start te gam with a minor civ (f.e. Zulu)

...and then what? the AI will play the Zulu and I can press enter at the end of each turn? Or I will play Zulu? :) I want to run through a game as quick as i can, and to monitor how things go in the game...

select "reveal map" and play as the incans. Choose whealth, add some luxuries and go ahead pressing enter.

If you have a heavy mouse, you could also put it on right Enter key and save yourself from pressing the key yourself.

I use a macro program

Rhye I love your mod, but I'm having a bizarre problem. Everytime I try to bring up the diplomacy dialog with the Hebrews (and only when they are in the middle ages) the game crashes. No error message, no missing file notification, nothing, it just locks up and quits out. I kept thinking the next update would fix this problem but is has been ongoing since v2.66 and in the expansion since v1.0. Has anyone encountered this problem as well, or is my computer an anti-semite?

I never played a modded game (but I've played the regular game a lot of times). This looks really interesting, especially the expansion. My question is: does the AI really "undestand" how to use all new techs and units etc in a good way?

Herrs, the ai in RoX is fairly smart, it uses most of the new units, but many of the inaucracys of the normalgame are still here

In case Aeon lurks here now, it's his turn in the SG

Rhye, where do I select this "reveal map" thing?

Hi Rhye,

The version 1.22 is annouced as available at home page, and there's even a version 1.3 of the Expansion Pack announced as released on the 1st post, but I can't see it ? Where is it ? Where and when will it be available ?
thanks, I love Ur mod !!

I love your mod Rhye, I've played it since the 1,5v came out. Bet i've saved enough time from loading times to play many more games than with other miods. I have got myself a new computer now but I still stick to your civilization mod cause it has become my favourite.

Played through the updated and expanded version...very nice work! Love the units, and the terrain. The cycle time is wonderful.

Thanks Rhye!

Sorry Ive been away guys, but new years and stuff... ;p

Been away from the internet for many a day basically.

I DID manage to play through a game as England on Demigod on my way home (I leave for school tomorrow... hurray for a day in the airport...), and the results were nothing less than brilliant! I got a settler in Scotland right off the bat... and... well... since then it just went better.

Because I wanted to know how it would work, I attempted many overseas invasions (LONG RANGE INVASIONS) of places like India or enemy colonial possesions, with units from the 18th Cent. It works, but it is really REALLY hard to keep up the logistics!

I went up to 2010, but I did not save it (got boring, so I quit), so I will give you the next most recent, 1994.

I finished researching everything in the 80s, and am now up to about 1/3 of the world's population. I was not actually trying to win anything (I dont usually even bother to turn on victory conditions, as I have never understood how a civilization can 'win'), but this might give some hope to the lost (and if you play it, you can have a ton of fun beating up on the various civs with one of my carrier groups!).

America managed the SoL in the 30s. I gave them Democracy when they were researching it, but I believe that they did not recieve anything else from me.

Japan and Germany are my major competiton (although my military reigned supreme), with the next closest competitor being the Americans. China is a regional threat to one of my colonial conquests... but lacks the tech and cash to really compete.

Anyway, I am playing another highly successful game as France. I managed another settler grab from a goody hut, and am now trying to force Spain and Portugal to go off and found great colonial empires... by locking them into their peninsula. I am not sure how well it will work...

@Rhye: I promise to play the SG as soon as I get to school tomorrow! Its 3AM here and I have to pack!

EDIT: NM, save is too big!

@Soma: I imagine it's the "reveal entire map" option in the "scenario properties" menu of the biq file, using your Conquests Editor. Could be wrong though.

Rhye, where do I select this "reveal map" thing?

from the scenario properties in the editor

I love your mod Rhye, I've played it since the 1,5v came out. Bet i've saved enough time from loading times to play many more games than with other miods. I have got myself a new computer now but I still stick to your civilization mod cause it has become my favourite.

Played through the updated and expanded version...very nice work! Love the units, and the terrain. The cycle time is wonderful.

Thanks Rhye!

Hi Rhye,

The version 1.22 is annouced as available at home page, and there's even a version 1.3 of the Expansion Pack announced as released on the 1st post, but I can't see it ? Where is it ? Where and when will it be available ?
thanks, I love Ur mod !!

Thank you everybody!

The version 1.21 was announced in the 1st post of the news, and was the lastest one to be released. I never spoke about 1.3.
However, I've got a list of things to fix that sooner or later I'll do (probably after the 10th). That will probably be 1.23 (to avoid confusion with patch 1.22 for Conquests)

The version 1.21 was announced in the 1st post of the news, and was the lastest one to be released. I never spoke about 1.3.

I think he means that the title of the first post is:
"Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod v2.68 + Expansion Pack v1.3"

"I think he means that the title of the first post is:
"Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod v2.68 + Expansion Pack v1.3"

That's right, plus the fact that the home page announces version 1.22 as available... Never mind.

sorry about that. I just spotted the 1.3, but I don't find the 1.22 announcement. Where is it?

Simply when you type civfanatics.com, look at the "This Week's new civIII download" list.

oh, that's by Thunderfall. I didn't write that.

I am interested in making a multiplayer version of RoC, but without making a tiny map (I agree that this would be the ideal solution). I'd like to share my ideas with you and get some feedback, since this community has a lot of experience with balancing the game.

I've noticed that there are several scenarios available (cold war, 2004, etc) that have preplaced cities. I would also be using preplaced cities, and would use one or more of these to give me locations, to save time on research. I would place them on the regular RoC map, with the notable exception of cities that correspond with starting locations.

Each culture group would have a "barbarian" civilization. I would have to sacrifice one of the regular civs to make it in each case. For example, the Celts in Europe were a very widespread group, and would be renamed "European Barbs." The Iroquois would become the "Native Americans," Mongols would become "Asian Barbs," and so forth.

Barbarian civilizations would be given all the cities in their continent/cuture group. Again, the exception will be starting locations of the "regular" civs.

Barbarian civilizations would be handicapped in a number of ways, to keep them from becoming dominant (unless you let them, which would of course be possible). Here are a list of handicaps I envision.

1. No workers. Barbarian civs would be unable to build workers; instead they would rely completely on slave labor when it was captured. I am considering making one of the early units an enslaving unit that all barb civs would have access to.

2. No starting techs from the regular tech tree.

Instead, Barbs would have a special untradeable "being barbarian" tech that allows them to build some units that will make them slightly less vulnerable to capture. I don't want the regular civs to be able to just walk around the map and so easily gobble up barb cities. So barbs would have access to some unwheeled units that have 1 or 2 attack (hunter and slinger) but zero defense. They would also be unable to capture, meaning that in the early game, barbs would be a strong nuisance, but would be unable to eliminate regular civs, and would be vulnerable to attack. Barbs would also be able to build the standard "horseman" units found in barbarian camps, without resources, when they researched the corresponding tech (Horseback Riding for this flavor unit). Warrior would not be available initially to Barbs; it would require a hidden, untradeable tech available from the outset to all regular civs.

3. Barbs would have a special government, Chiefdom, that comes with the "being barbarian" tech. I'd need some help on how to get them to choose it over Despotism, because I want it to be more crippling even than Despotism is.

4. Barbs might need very passive settings to keep them from attacking their neighbors constantly.

5. Barbs would also be crippled by their high number of cities, which would easily be far more than RoC allows for the optimal number.

In addition to the barbarian civs, there would still also be regular barbarians on the map.

My goal here is to have a scenario where two or more human players could play a game against each other on a RoC Earth map, without having vast stretches of unclaimed real estate up for grabs. A couple of multiplayer rules would be necessary:

A. No two human players can be in the same culture group.
B. No MAs or MPPs may be made with a barbarian civ.

I'm interested in hearing what you all think about these ideas.

Hi, Camber!

How would this weak barb country mean ungrabbed land? Through conquering, it would be grabbed, would not that be? Even more easily, for the human would get cities for free (no need for settlers).

Hi Camber......It would be absolutely fantastic to have a multiplayer RoC, so thumbs up for the initiative:-)

Personally I don't like the idea with preplaced cities when yous start the game from 4000 BC.

I also agree with V.Soma, that by conquering the weak barbarbarian cities would potentially be a lot cheaper than building a settler, which in RoC are VERY expensive.

Thank you for the replies. I'm very interested in seeing whether something could be done to make the land-grab fair. The inspiration came from reading a cover story from National Geographic on new discoveries in China that shattered old concepts on the origin of China. Here is an exerpt: http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0307/feature3/

The archeologists there are challenging the old view that the Shang culture (e.g., prototypical Chinese culture) did not start from one area and spread (the Civ colonization model of empire origins). Rather, the earliest Shang city was one of many in the area that shared closely matched, but yet different cultures, that grew up parrallel to one another in the region. Gradually they were assimilated into a more cohesive group (the Civ conquest & cultural conversion models of empire origins).

Although it would be foolish to apply this accross the entire globe without evidence, there is plenty to be found when one looks for parallel origins. Among the ancient civs I am most familiar with, you can find this pattern at work in Babylon, Sumeria, Greece, Egypt, and throughout MesoAmerica. The Israelites are a glaring exception, who mostly grew out of a single nomadic group. But even they established their geographic homeland more through conquest than colonization. The same is true for early Rome, which mostly went out from a home city and conquered/assimilated surrounding cities of similar culture (I'm talking about their immediate neighbors, not Carthage and Greece, but that later development only strengthens my argument). For the most part, it seems, rising civilizations were not colonizers as much as they were conquerors and assimilators.

The problem with trying to incorporate these ideas is that it tweaks a major part of the game that is already very finely balanced, and failure mostly through destroying that balance.

I've also considered making cultural improvements off limits to these barb civs somehow, so that the regular civs aren't the ones being assimilated, but the reverse. One idea is to make a hidden, untradeable, starting tech for regular civs that allows a resource to show up on the map called "homeland." One of these would be placed under each starting location. It would be a required resource for any culture-producing improvements/wonders.

I assume you got that impression from further reading elsewhere; all I got was a brief blip that seemed to do more to confirm the colonial method. I mean, the tortise fragments were all coming from the same place haha.

Regardless, this looks cool so I am going to dig up some time to read about it! Please share anything else you have on it!


Re: homeland resource

it would be easier to simply restrict them from building those buildings, or make them part of a flavor that includes all "non-barbarian" civilizations.

I have to say that the term barbaroi is rather passe in this day and age. Wouldnt it be more apropos to call them something else? Or even just not include them? I am curious as to how you intend to include playable civilizations and still fill the earth with the barbarians AND still meet the 8 civ limit!

If I were to suggest anything concrete, it would be this: eliminate whatever civs you can, and replace them with powerful roving (barbs not deposited on huts) and non-roving (1 barb on hut) barbarians. Doing so would maximize your playable civ count.

Also, you will definitely have to reduce the price of research, because right now it is totally dependent on trade.

And thats enough from me ;p

I DEFINITELY wish you good luck!

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0307/feature3/zoom5.html

ah HA! You were looking at a picture! THATS where you got the idea! The little blip verifies his claims (and besides, the picture is pretty cool!)

a number of related thoughts, in no particular order...

- i would suggest the term "indigenous" - a generic term for the native peoples of any land.

- i've never set up an MP scenario, but it seems to me that even if you have 7 playable civs, and 1 indigenous civ, that could still offer plenty of opportunities for PBEM and hotseat games - i'm sure my wife and i would give it a go!

- the idea of scattering cities across the map, the vast majority of which are pop 1, no culture, with no opportunities for cultural or technological improvement, is quite appealing. rather than focussing on an expansionist land grab at the beginning, you'd have to use military and/or cultural power to assimilate your local neighbors.

to this end, you may have to tweak the cultural assimilation settings to make it a valid alternative to conquest.

- and you wouldnt have to elimiinate colonisation altogether - you could still leave an area without cities, such as australia.

- the indigenous civ would have cities that continue to grow. assuming you make no improvements and no units available to them (other than a standard, low-tech defender), their wealth would be a nice boon for when you take over the cities, but the constant growth in population would make takeover increasingly difficult as the game wore on. ideally, there'd be a way to limit their population size below 3 or something, but i'm not sure how that could be done without potentially gimping any conquering civ....

- tweaking the AI for the indigenous civ would be quite easy using the "never build" flags on the civ tab in the editor - rhye did this to great effect with some of the historically less developed civs (and is probably a more important control than map editing)

- an idea for populating the existing map with cities is to run it on AI several times and note the most common city locations that are settled. plop all your indigenous cities there in the editor.

interesting concept. i look forward to hearing how you go with it.

EW

Limiting indigenous pop is real easy... Just make Aqueduct require the Homeland resource. In RoCX you need Aqueducts to pass size 5, and additionally you can cover the terrain with -1f resources that only the indigenous civ sees. They would be hard-pressed to grow that way.

- an idea for populating the existing map with cities is to run it on AI several times and note the most common city locations that are settled. plop all your indigenous cities there in the editor.

An alternative would be to get an atlas and work from a combination of the two.

That way you would keep a lot of the random placement, but the cities would have a name that at least looked right (it being impossible to get this exactly right without balance problems)

Finally, how are you picking the civs? Seems like you could do various flavors, like Classical civs and European civs (to name a few). It would mean more work (even if you just preset all the cities and switched them around) but it would be worth it.

very nice mod!! nice grafics!! nice map!! i just tested exp+terrain i and i have to say its great! but i miss a unit, an attack chopper like apache or mi-24hind or something like this! thx for your great work!!

Thanks for the responses guys.

I assume you got that impression from further reading elsewhere; all I got was a brief blip that seemed to do more to confirm the colonial method. I mean, the tortise fragments were all coming from the same place haha.

Regardless, this looks cool so I am going to dig up some time to read about it! Please share anything else you have on it!

Actually I read the entire article at work this summer. They have the issue that the article appears in--July 2003. But yes, the blip on the picture tells a little about their findings, of multiple cultural centers in the Shang region, all with different leadership and similar styles of creating bronzes (some of which are the largest pre-Renaissance bronzes ever found, very advanced for the time).

I have to say that the term barbaroi is rather passe in this day and age. Wouldnt it be more apropos to call them something else? Or even just not include them? I am curious as to how you intend to include playable civilizations and still fill the earth with the barbarians AND still meet the 8 civ limit!

Good point! I like Endiku_Warrior's idea of calling them Indigenous or Native people. As to the number, I had in mind making 4 indigenous civs (one for each culture group), leaving space for 4 regular civs. This is rather limiting on the playable civ side, and I would prefer EW's idea of 1 indigenous civ and 7 playable civs. If only I could get a way for the indigenous civ to not share culture with any of the playable ones, it would solve the balancing problem of having some players sharing the culture group while others do not.

Putting Never Build orders in the editor rather than a special resource is a great fix. Thanks guys. I like the idea of putting this on the Aqueduct and Hospital as well. I also like the -1F resource. Great ideas.

I wouldn't want to completely bar them from research, since you would need them to be able to defend themselves later on with Guerrillas and such. But I think if they have no (or next to no) access to workers (since slaves are their only labor source), then you would find them using large numbers of no-resource units, rather than only Ancient Era units throughout the game. But initially they could be limited to some flavor units that are very crippled, and I could set some hidden "stone age" techs between them and the regular tech tree that have a very high cost.

The preplacement of cities I would want to be somewhat historical. Here is an example of what I had in mind:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77920&stc=1

This is from El Justo's scenario, "The Cold War Deluxe; 1960-1989, located here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108268). The map is 130x130, Rhye's. It appears that he has adhered to RoC rules about settling on Jungles and Deserts; you'll notice that these regions are very sparsely populated. In fact, I'm considering borrowing his map entirely, deleting units, importing Rhye's rules, and reassigning cities to the indigenous civ(s). It all depends on whether it would be more work to place RoC landmark terrain on his map, or place his cities on the RoC map.

I'm still working on how to cripple them with a special government, and getting them to choose it over despotism. Any ideas?

EDIT: fixed an html tag.

I have Civ III Conquest v.1.22. When I try to run ROC V2.68 I receive a load error of file not found "art\units\ancient settler\ \ \ \ \ \art\units\settler\settdefault.flc".
I have download the file twice and still get the same results. I'm doing something wrong. need some advise on how to fix problem.
thanks,
cylc.

You would be best off posting this in the Rhye's of Civilization thread so that they become aware of it, plus they know the mod more than most people do and will be able to help.

I am going to merge this with Rhye's thread.


Threads merged.

Rhye,

First of all, this has to be the best mod I've played in years. I salute you! (And thank you much!) And many thanks to your er... development team whom I know have played a great part in making this mod possible.

I know you've done a lot already, but I say you would be the perfect modder to attempt a 4000 bc to beyond mod. Not sure but I have read a few mods actually has four eras instead of three?

And on a lighter note, I've found a way to get rid of the annoying patrol ai function that seriously slows down the intern, just slap this in the conquests.ini (be sure to back up just in case) NoAIPatrol=1. And if its possible to make a smaller map? say a reflection of the standard earth map?

Wild

I have been trying to download this MOD for some time now. I am on Dail up so it is a very slow process. I THINK I finally got everything loaded (Basic + Expansion). I had to download it in parts.
When I Tried to start up the game, it begins the loading. But then quickly I get THIS message

Missing File, "Text/Pedialcons.txt." ICON.BLDG_Holy_War

Then the game ends. I have tried a couple of times and that happens each time. I would Greatly appreciate if some one could help me get started.
Perhaps I just need to re download that section, but I am not sure which file the above would be in ( part 1, part 2, etc.)
Or would it be possible for someone to just send me THAT specific file and I could load it??

Any help please send directly to BLTurner@hotmail.com

THanks

I know you've done a lot already, but I say you would be the perfect modder to attempt a 4000 bc to beyond mod. Not sure but I have read a few mods actually has four eras instead of three?
Umm... The basic game has four eras and you can have no more than that, and RoC/X already ARE 4000BC and beyond mods... Assuming what you mean is that it's a mod that starts at 4000BC and follows the course of human history from there.
:rolleyes:

I think he means futuristic stuff... otherwise it doesnt make sense.


@cylc and VFM:

You are not missing the file, so do not worry about that. Please list exactly what you did with the file.

Here is a quick checklist:

Did you put the various downloaded files into the Civ 3 Conquests Scenarios folder?
Did you make sure to patch Conquests to the most recent version?
Did you download all five parts?
Did you overwrite everytime it asked you to overwrite something?
Did you change the name of the XF folder?
DO NOT CHANGE THE NAME OF THAT FOLDER OR ANY OTHER!

Without some very specific information on what you did, I cannot help you more than that.

I hope this was enough, but if not just say so ;p

As you can see I'm slowly detaching...however I'm happy to see that you keep working on new ideas.
The FAQ in the site were made to help new users, I suggest you (cylc and VFM) to look at them.
VFM->you must update Conquests to 1.22
cylc->mmm check that you have the settler folder inside civilization iii\art\units. And have you updated Conquests to 1.22?

keitherwild6-> Thank you. I don't know what you exactly mean with that 4000bc thing. Regular games start in 4000 bc and there are four, and only four, eras.
I didn't know that patrol slows down AI movement, are you sure of this? I may keep it in mind when testing the next patch (and that will happen soon), but I want to be sure first.

Oh yeah, the thing that keitherwild6 said reminded me to ask this question finally. Have you put the NoAIPatrol=0 line in for your games Rhye? It made a huge difference when I took it out playing as Russia.
Just wondering so that I could use the setting that it was balanced on.

And in response to keitherwild6 suggesting adding NoAIPatrol=1 in, I think that will do nothing as it is the defualt for conquests when there is no NoAIPatrol= line.
See this thread for the details: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=100704

HEllo again people.
Thanks for the suggestions. I did need to update to Conquest 1.22. I recently did that, and STILL I have the same problem. I get exactly the same massage as before. Any suggestions now?

Thanks

Limiting indigenous pop is real easy... Just make Aqueduct require the Homeland resource. In RoCX you need Aqueducts to pass size 5, and additionally you can cover the terrain with -1f resources that only the indigenous civ sees. They would be hard-pressed to grow that way.

in the case of limiting aqueducts and hospitals, there's still the issue of placing cities on rivers. it would be difficult in some areas, and unrealistic in general, to not place cities on rivers - which give a "free" aqueduct.

i like the idea of using limiting (ie -1) resources that would appear from a tech only indigenous can get. however, i dont believe there's a way to layer those resources with the existing bonuses. this is important as any city will (naturally) use its best tiles for production. even if all other tiles have negatives, the bonus tiles in the territory will be enough to push growth forward to some degree. this might still work with some creative map fiddling, but i'm doubtful.

that said, with a bunch of "never build" instructions on the indigenous peoples, you may just find that further tweaking is not necessary... dont know if this is true, but it would be easy to test once you get to that point.

@camber - i'm diggin the idea of 4 and 4.

EW

to the people having problems, a common mistake is not ticking the "use full path names" option when extracting the zip files. below is a link to a post i wrote about this some time ago. can you confirm that you did the steps listed and have a directory structure as shown?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2450296&postcount=5316

EW

Guys,

Yes I meant "futuristic" stuff. Though I can see from your work (though I may be wrong) that you are more interested in the 'real' world, I think it would be great if you can stretch the whole civ to the future. It has been done before with civ II if I can remember.
And I have tech question I got a P4 1.8 with 512 ram, and ati 9200 (though I am not sure the card will do anything) is it normal to have a 20- 40 second turn in lets say when the map is literally covered with cities?
Thanks, again if you do want to undertake such a project I'll be more than willing to help...

Rhye,

I read from some thread in this site I am not sure where, but it was recently. I was trying to get more speed. Ther thread stated that ai has a tendancy to parol iow make there units go around in circles, which does contribute to the seconds in the intern.
Oh yeah, and want to add to my praise that your techs are probably the most uncluttered I've seen. I mean more techs is really good, but if put to getter in a sloppy way it really fould the gameplay. Another salute! And keep up the good work!!

Dear Rhye - this mod is the most balanced earth mod I have ever played in any version of Civ. It is so much fun to play with. Your theory that larger maps dont necessarily imply more "pleasure" is absolutely true. I have been trying out Inca, Austria, Scandinavia, China and Ethiopia (emperor level) so far, managed to survive until the modern era, and I enjoyed every single game. Thanks!

thanks everybody, and vote please ;)

vfm->check that directory structure

kw6->just read that, it seems that default for conquests is nopatrol=1. So if I deactivate it, I'll partially fix barbarians problem, but AI will patrol again.

@Wild: The answer t