As you can see, there is definitely a green field on the map, yes, the Celts! :)
And they have gallic swordsman... (I saw them! :) )

I had LOTS of problems but now it is clear that the AI puts 2 celtic cities on the northern part of the continent. Ireland is settled, too :)
Celts start with Londinium on the British main island...

Romans first 5 cities are quite straightforward, as you see it:
First Italia and Greece, then what is left for them to the west.

The big rush goes for Hispania! :)
In the above example it was the Celts who got is but I need to run tests to see other cases.

I renamed Scandinavia to
THE NORTHERN SLAVS
because, hey, let's face it, they have:
Riga, Kiev, Novgorod... and finally a city in Scandinavia: Uppsala

I have the Times World Atlas of History (published in 1991? - I have Hungarian edition), a lovely book, indeed, got it yesterday, so I will have city names.
I already have them for the European and Medit. civs.

I played tests until near end of Ancient Age - I plan to change game length from 400 to 500 or so turns, evenly stretched.

HERE IS THE BIQ - 12 CIVS!
Welcome the Celts!

Some observations from my latest RoCX-game:
- I and 5 AI-civs are a couple of techs in the modern age, but the AI has completely ignored Marxism and Totalitarianism - even though, they are in constant war. I believe, it is Marxism (non-required/gives nothing) that discourages the AI.

- The caravel and the galleass has the same defence rating - but since the galleass has a greater attack rating, the stupid AI uses the caravel (when escorted by a galleass) as the defender.

- The AI does not use the frigate anymore.

As you can see, there is definitely a green field on the map, yes, the Celts! :)
And they have gallic swordsman... (I saw them! :) )

I had LOTS of problems but now it is clear that the AI puts 2 celtic cities on the northern part of the continent. Ireland is settled, too :)
Celts start with Londinium on the British main island...

Romans first 5 cities are quite straightforward, as you see it:
First Italia and Greece, then what is left for them to the west.

The big rush goes for Hispania! :)
In the above example it was the Celts who got is but I need to run tests to see other cases.

I renamed Scandinavia to
THE NORTHERN SLAVS
because, hey, let's face it, they have:
Riga, Kiev, Novgorod... and finally a city in Scandinavia: Uppsala

I have the Times World Atlas of History (published in 1991? - I have Hungarian edition), a lovely book, indeed, got it yesterday, so I will have city names.
I already have them for the European and Medit. civs.

I played tests until near end of Ancient Age - I plan to change game length from 400 to 500 or so turns, evenly stretched.

HERE IS THE BIQ - 12 CIVS!
Welcome the Celts!

That's clear : you must add natives australians and japan and vietnam :goodjob:

I renamed Scandinavia to
THE NORTHERN SLAVS
because, hey, let's face it, they have:
Riga, Kiev, Novgorod...

Well, those cities were originally populated by many Norsemen - they were important trading cities for the Swedish vikings (who may even have founded some of those cities). The first Russian rulers were decendants of Norsemen - they ruled from Kiev.

Well, well, hm...
Of the three, I consider Japan as a strong candidate for a No. 13. spot...
(ehh, now I like 12 as a number a lot more, it has magic to it...)

Japan would get 3 cities on main isles, and then... maybe colonising the Indonesian islands? My guess is - yes... it could make actually a lot of cities: 7-8 in total...

Australia: I say no, well, I want to leave it for colonisation...

Well, those cities were originally populated by many Norsemen - they were important trading cities for the Swedish vikings (who may even have founded some of those cities). The first Russian rulers were decendants of Norsemen - they ruled from Kiev.

OK, I accept that, so let it change back to Scandinavia.
But I have no viking names for these cities, only slavic ones from ca. 1100 in real history. How could it be helped?

I've just finished a 35k game as the Germans in the patched, expanded version on Emperor with medium agressiveness, and wanted to write down my experiences. (If you like you can put this up as a strategy guide)

At first some general observations: I was surprised that my game went very similar to the one I played on 2.62, despite the numerous changes, and despite the newly introduced palace guards. I really love the mod and the expansion, but some problems still remain: AI builds one settler after another. All European AI settle in the large, far away area south of Russia and west of Mongolia. There are nearly NO wars between AIs in the first two eras. Some civs are very weak, especially India, Scandinavia, Babylon, Israel and the Maya.

Now to The Germans - RoCX :
Warning: resource location spoilers included!

As with all civs in the crowded starting regions (Europe & Middle East), you must forget about early settlers and granaries. This is epecially true for the scientific and militaristic Germans, and especially true because the AI does NOT heed this but blindly builds one settler after another - at least on emperor & default agressiveness. There are two keys to victory:

1. Tech lead. Send your first warrior south-sw, your second south-east. Avoid barbarians, and you should be able to get at least one or two techs from goody huts. This will enable you to initiate tech trading, and catapult you ahead of the crowd. Make sure your first warrior meets the Portuguese, and your second should at least make contact with Byzanz, with some luck you can even get him to Israel, Arabia and Persia. I recommend researching Nordic Mythology on lowest rate, since it's something the AI doesn't care for while low rate and generous tech trading will help to build up your much needed treasury for the early wars.

2. Early wars. We don't have immediate access to iron, so we'll simply stick to spearmen. With cheap libraries and barracks, it's possible to build both (plus one worker) in Berlin after the first 2-4 warriors but before Spearmen even become available. The library helps to keep us ahead both technological and cultural while we build up our army. About 10 spearmen suffice to capture Amsterdam. Just wait until the Dutch wander off with their first settler to found Rotterdam on the Danish peninsula. This will make conquest easier and additionally gives you another city some turns later.

With the Dutch either destroyed or banished from Europe, it's time to invade France and Austria. Depending on your army and their cities, it might be wise to only capture Paris and Vienna before a temporary peace to replenish your military strength. This is also the time to found 1-2 cities, one on the hills (Iron & Coal) between Berlin and Paris, the other to the east, either NE of Vienna (Iron) or NE of Berlin. (In my whole game I only founded two further cities, one E of Berlin, the other was Rio de Janeiro to get Rubber - pretty useless though: 15 turns before the 35k Cultural Victory ;) )

On turn 70 (or earlier if possible) it's time to make a rush for Philosophy. Choosing the bonus tech is difficult...Monarchy might be the best choice if you still have a large army and a small population or if you had the luck to get a scientific leader to rush the Hanging Gardens. On the other hand, Republic normally gives you a commercial boost even with a mediocre army - much more importantly though, you can buy cheap libraries and barracks in your newly captured cities! And cultural growth is extremely important in every war and every crowded area, even if you aren't heading for a cultural victory. If you manage to get Stonehenge, don't fear to sacrifice captured workers in the new cities - 96 or 120 points of culture is MUCH.

Once France and Austria are eliminated, the Germans should be the leading civilization. World wide. The rest of the game is pretty straightforward: Generous tech-trading without sacrificing your lead, conquering the occasional city or civilization near your borders without sacrificing your reputation, and rushing libraries and universities whenever possible. Until my 35k cultural victory in 1620 or so, only England, Rome and Spain dared to challenge me. Their homelands quickly fell to the German empire, even without buying any other civ into an alliance.

Some final tips:
Keep an eye open for civilizations experiencing a Golden Age. Those are normally the only civs wich are able to pay a proper price for your technologies. My favorite customer in the ancient and early medieval age was Greece, later on Persia and Arabia.
Continue to explore the world until you've made contact with all 32 civs.
Make use of the medieval naval units. Especially Galleas and Galleon are great, they can move your troops from London to Rome within 4 turns - not counting oversea (un-/)loading.

OK, I accept that, so let it change back to Scandinavia.
But I have no viking names for these cities, only slavic ones from ca. 1100 in real history. How could it be helped?

Novgorod = Holmgård
Kiev = Kænugård

These are Danish translations of Oldnorse.

Riga is from 1201 AD, so...

And just if you are interested: In the beginning of the 9th century, Scandinavians (mostly Swedish vikings), known as Rhos, were very active in present day Russia - establishing trade posts and securing the rivers for trade with the Byzantine empire. They most likely, amongst other, founded Holmgård and Kænugård. Near the end of the 9th century, the viking warlord Rorik was made king of, what was now known as Rus. His warriors were known as varæger (Oldrussian: varjag - Oldnorse: væringi). Throughout the 10th and 11th century, when the king was in trouble, he would call on help from the vikings - varænger. When Vladimir I won the civil war of 1015-1019 ad, it was with the aid of the varæger. After this conflict, he sent them to Constantinople (known by the vikings as Miklagård). Here they formed the byzantine imperial guard: The Varanger Guard.

thank you karmina - it is up on the site.

Help!
This was the first multi-part download I tried. Loading it stalls with: art\advisors\NP_all.PCX

What to do?
J.P.Jones

hello john paul jones and welcome.
Are you talking about the basic mod or the expanded?
In any case, be sure to have downloaded all the parts (4 for the basic, 5 more for the expansion), and unzipped them in the right location

Now I have JAPAN, too!

They look nice and healthy, with their 3 cities in the home isles and an additional on the continent to the SW. I like them. They of course make immediate contact with China, so tech is speeded up there a bit.

Hm, it is quite fascinating how a small country
with ca. 3 cities can keep up with the bigger ones in RoC... :)

I played test until turn 180, and saw the leader turn into Middle Age
exactly when in RoCX original! So I will keep with the original 400 turns schedule.

City names are now adjusted, thanks for the Viking names,
it falls in line what I have found yesterday in my big Time Atlas
(er, I found the Viking page, finally).

I made some corrections on the map:
1. Japan boats got to America - so I corrected Bering Strait
2. West South American coast now is settleable, to let Maya and Inca meet each other

NOW, how about having India (3-4 cities) ? :) I will try this, too!

Rhye, I noticed that you listed England higher on the strength scale than Germany. Actually I think that the Germans are the strongest civ if played wisely. Rome and England might have a slightly better starting city (and yes, the Roman Legions are incredible while England has direct access to oil), but as a human playing the Germans you can meet more civs more quickly, find more goody huts, and most importantly capture your first city earlier. Only the Byzantines have similar benefits, but iirc their capital is weaker and they aren't militaristic.
Well, I'll give England a try after finishing my Aztecs game. We'll see how long it takes to get to Paris and Amsterdam...

Some suggestions:
->Increase the 35k culture victory limit. I reached it by owning only European cities west of Byzanz in the early 17th century, with Berlin at about 9k, although I built all five religious wonders in Berlin, plus the Hanging Gardens, Shakespeare's Theatre and a couple of others.
->Maybe improve the starting locations for India and the Incas. At least India needs to be more powerful in all ages, e.g. on par with Persia. Just replace some jungle tiles with forest - or add landmarks to make jungle more productive.
And the Incas are the only civ without contact to anyone else for a long, long time. That's more than enough punishment, they should really get more generous terrain

I would welcome feedback upon the idea
of putting India on the "Rhye's standard" map, it would be civ No. 14... Should I do it?
China then would be smaller, maybe 4-5 cities, but would kind of more "real" China...

Umm, having these "new" smaller civs makes me think about
that maybe strength of big ones, like in Europe should be lessened...
Well, I will try India and see if China gets big enough -
maybe I can give China more area if needed...

And:

The zone south of the Sahara in Africa and the Eastern shore along river Congo
might be a place for yet another civ (No. 15)
I do not like Ethiopes getting big expanding to the west...

But I think I have to "stop" and consider things carefully, after all,
the 3 American civs get very big - 7-8 cities with ease...

for me, it is not easy job... ;)

Yes, you should add India and Dahomey (Mali)

Don't touch natives americans

That's all

Can i download the biq once done ?

I will put on India and Dahomey (thanks for the tip, Lachlan!),
and then it is 15 civs, finished.
I guess I will put the BIQ up here on Thursday or Friday,
so you can get it for the weekend.

Rhye, I noticed that you listed England higher on the strength scale than Germany. Actually I think that the Germans are the strongest civ if played wisely. Rome and England might have a slightly better starting city (and yes, the Roman Legions are incredible while England has direct access to oil), but as a human playing the Germans you can meet more civs more quickly, find more goody huts, and most importantly capture your first city earlier. Only the Byzantines have similar benefits, but iirc their capital is weaker and they aren't militaristic.
Well, I'll give England a try after finishing my Aztecs game. We'll see how long it takes to get to Paris and Amsterdam...

Some suggestions:
->Increase the 35k culture victory limit. I reached it by owning only European cities west of Byzanz in the early 17th century, with Berlin at about 9k, although I built all five religious wonders in Berlin, plus the Hanging Gardens, Shakespeare's Theatre and a couple of others.
->Maybe improve the starting locations for India and the Incas. At least India needs to be more powerful in all ages, e.g. on par with Persia. Just replace some jungle tiles with forest - or add landmarks to make jungle more productive.
And the Incas are the only civ without contact to anyone else for a long, long time. That's more than enough punishment, they should really get more generous terrain


Thank you for the info, I noted it but I'm not going to change anything anytime soon. I'm very busy with real life and tired of working on this mod.
However, as I've said, if any big issue comes out, I'll fix it and include the minor changes, too.


So, the Germans are 5/5, ok?

Rhye:
I double checked all the downloads, I did misdirect one. The civilization selection page now comes up for both the basic & expansion games, but they both shut down withe the following: Art\Units\Ancient Settler\\\\\\art\units\settler\settDefault.flc.
What next?
J.P.Jones

->updated conquests to 1.22?

->have you got the english version?

->have you got the standard civ3 and conquests? (civ3 gold may not work)

Rhye:

Yes, I have the English version of the non-gold CivIII. I haven't a clue if my C3C is version 1.22. How do I tell?

J.P.Jones

Rhye:

Yes, I have the English version of the non-gold CivIII. I haven't a clue if my C3C is version 1.22. How do I tell?

J.P.Jones

The bottom left corner of the main menu should say '1.22'. If it does not, download and install the patch (http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ3/patch/Civ3Conquestsv122FULL.exe).

It seems like corruption is pretty intense. I'm Rome, and a city in portugal has over half it's production/money lost. And thats in constitutional monarchy with a courthouse! Also on warlord difficulty, if that makes a difference.
Also, on my next game I think i'll lower the AI trade rate, because like 3 civs had some co-op tech thing going, because they were about 4-6 techs ahead.

All in all, it's a great mod, I think. :goodjob:

It seems like corruption is pretty intense. I'm Rome, and a city in portugal has over half it's production/money lost. And thats in constitutional monarchy with a courthouse! Also on warlord difficulty, if that makes a difference.
Also, on my next game I think i'll lower the AI trade rate, because like 3 civs had some co-op tech thing going, because they were about 4-6 techs ahead.

All in all, it's a great mod, I think. :goodjob:

First Off - I love the Mod - I came close to blowing off a final exam just to finish one game about four weeks ago.

I played almost 3 full games and I agree with Zidane. Each game seems to have 4 civilizations who are 5-10 techs ahead of everyone else. If one civ gets a new tech, the other 3 will have it the next turn. Its a little imbalanced as these civs at times refuse to share :sad:

regarding corruption, ROCX puts greater importance on empire size (ie number of cities) and less on distance compared to standard C3C games. this more accurately simulates the viability of colonial empires (eg Britain) and the unwieldly nature of bloated empires despite contiguity of borders (eg Rome).

so in your portugal-city example, Z, my first question is how many cities do you have? if you have many, then your empire probably is suffering a fair bit of corruption all over. i would surprised if you only had a handful of cities.

if you do have many cities, i'd recommend strategic placement of your fobidden palace, and consideration of going communist to get the SPHQ and a colony to get the trading company, too, each of which adds to your effective empire size limit.

regarding trading, i dont think this is a ROCX issue, as much as it is a dynamic to get used to when playing large-scale (ie 30+ civs) games. it's actually one of the few things the AI does well, and the key for you as a player is to gain some leverage so that you can break into their trading circle to equalise and eventually take the tech lead.

If you are far behind, look to a civ who is a little ahead of you but militarily vulnerable. Start a war, take just enough cities that you can sue for peace and pick up a tech or two. Then, trade these techs to your less advantaged neighbors in exchange for gpt or other concessions you can use to trade up. If you still cant trade up, start another war. But you dont have to become a warmonger or maintain a ludicrous military, just use war as a "diplomatic" tool.

I'm sure there are other strategies people here could recommend, as well!

EW

Hi, folks!

I made progress on the standard size map version:
Now it has
INDIA and a new West-African civ:
JORUBA
(I chose this name as to Mali or Dahoney)
They work really nice, having 5-6 cities as natural empire. :)
This made Ethiopia remain where should be: on the north-east of Africa.
Also, China is "in China", with 5-6 cities.

I made some small repairs, regarding shields and food.
Also about leaderhead graphics (I hope that the game runs without error).
I gave Joruba the originally Ethiopian head,
and Ethiopia gets the originally Sumerian one...

I also did some UU selection,
all belonging to the Ancient Age or early Middle Age.
Except Kamikaze unit for Japan...
But this UU theme is something yet to be worked with.

Today I will do some testing, I am not totally satisfied with Rome,
it seems they get only 5 cities,
while the celts get 6 and
Scandinavia gets 7.
Tomorrow I will put up the BIQ,
with the 15 civs, here is a list of them, BTW, by culture groups:

EUROPEAN (2)
Celts
Scandinavia

MEDITERRANEAN (2)
Rome
Carthage

MID-EAST (2)
Babylon
Ethiopia
(Eth. gets up the river NIle and has chance to get to Arabia)

ASIA (4)
Mongolia
China
Japan
India

AFRICA (2)
Zulu
Joruba

AMERICA (3)
Iroquois
Maya
Inca

Well the Mid-East category of Ethiopia is not reflected in graphics,
they have the African outlook...

I had about 10 cities, give or take, because of the limited room in Europe. Also, I hadnt built the forbidden palace, because I was saving it fight corruption in a south american colony.
As for the tech through war idea, it could work, but I think i'm too late in the game to do that, since the gap is too big. I had to quit because the circle of 3-4 AIs I mentioned went around and made allaiances with the entire world against me, and my frigates just couldnt stop their transports and dreadnoughts from landing troops. (Was 1 tech away from those ships, but no oil) I mostly had problems with England, who seem a bit overpowered with all the resources at their disposal.
Like I said though, love the mod, dont even play normal games anymore :goodjob:

Hi everybody !

This message is mainly for Rhye, but maybe anyone can help !

I played ROCX for a long time, but needed to reinstall it all after a problem with my PC. Since then, I can not see anymore the religious techs in early medieval ages. They're simply not available in the Tech advisor screen. This is Christianity, Buddhism... I've seen in the editor that there are actually 2 techs of each, for eg Christianity and Christianity_. I understood that one of them is simply a "false" tech attributed to the right civs, and acts as a required tech for the 2nd. But why are these techs not displayed in the F6 screen, and even not available in the game ?

I'll check if the pcx files are here in the tech chooser folder, but I see no reason why there should not be. Please let me know any clue that could help me solve this without reinstalling all the mod.

Salutations.
Dabeuz.

I ask for opinions:

1.
What should be the agression level for the 15 civs?
Should they be equally zero, or should they show characteristic difference?

2.
How many traits should they have? I vote for three..
Yet have to decide on them...

I also have to decide on the starting techs, maybe keep most of Rhye's...

To Three Crowns:
Thank you. Yes, I only have version 1.00 of C3C. Now, as an elderly ignoramus, how do I download the patches?
J.P.Jones

soma->I chose the starting techs depending on some factors: I gave pottery to coastal cities, mysticism to some civs that should discover the religious tech earlier, and masonry and the wheel to the rest of the civs, trying to keep the same tech for larger groups. If you mix the techs too much, everybody will have everything in a couple of turns. So don't keep mine but adapt this concept to your map.

dabeuz->never heard of something like that...can you pass at the middle ages? (you shouldn't). Please post a screenshot.

Rhye, when in the editor I set starting techs, and want to set Christianity, Buddhism etc of the like:
Do I have to give the first or second of the two identical ones
(i.e. "Christianity" and another "Christianity")?

To Three Crowns:
Thank you. Yes, I only have version 1.00 of C3C. Now, as an elderly ignoramus, how do I download the patches?
J.P.Jones

You can use the link, I provided in my previous post - or this one:
http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ3/patch/Civ3Conquestsv122FULL.exe

Click the link and save the file - then run it.

Rhye, when in the editor I set starting techs, and want to set Christianity, Buddhism etc of the like:
Do I have to give the first or second of the two identical ones
(i.e. "Christianity" and another "Christianity")?

the first tech

I had about 10 cities, give or take, because of the limited room in Europe. Also, I hadnt built the forbidden palace, because I was saving it fight corruption in a south american colony.
That's very strange, I hardly ever had corruption problems with 10-20 cities even in Monarchy on Emperor. Perhaps the Warlord level messes something up? Also strange that you couldn't keep the tech pace on Warlord. I dunno about RoC on Warlord, but in vanilla civ and c3c you're normally way ahead of every AI, practically from the beginning.
BTW in c3c and RoC you should always built the FP as soon as possible (read the c3c corruption thread if you want to know why; also note that a far away FP will increase the OCN but apart from this only reduce corruption in that single city). Furthermore, in RoCX there are two other buildings sharing the FP functionality: India Trade Company and Secret Police Headquarters (the latter for Communism only). Which makes it even less sensible to save the FP for the Industrial Age.

@Soma:
I really like your selection for the 15 civs. As for aggressiveness, all AIs should be more aggressive than in RoCX 1.23 (where are very few AI wars). I'd also suggest to make Japan, Mongolia, Iroquis and maybe the Incas even more aggressive than the others.

With traits, do you mean the RoCX religions? If yes, I'd vote for only two traits, with neighbors sharing the same ancient trait.

Bleh, I have a dilemma: should I continue conquering for the fun of it on my Germany beta game, or should I stop soon so I can finally do that clean install of RoC+X that I have been planning to do since v1 and start a new game?
I'm just having so much fun conquering the world in the Germany game, I don't ever wanna stop... I'm preparing now to conquer India (even though I don't share any real borders with them, other than those of one colony and another city I'm about to create to stage the war from.)

I really like your selection for the 15 civs. As for aggressiveness, all AIs should be more aggressive than in RoCX 1.23 (where are very few AI wars). I'd also suggest to make Japan, Mongolia, Iroquis and maybe the Incas even more aggressive than the others.

With traits, do you mean the RoCX religions? If yes, I'd vote for only two traits, with neighbors sharing the same ancient trait.


Well, thanks, I guess these 15 civs are fine, let me note that I took ideas of you here to go up form 11 to 15... :)

Agression: Now I see that Rome and Carthage almost alway start an Ancient age war :) others not, but wait: Mongolia attacked China...

I guess I will have civs with agression from -1 to +1, how about:
(or -2 to +2?)

Celts: 0 (-1)
Scand.: +1 (+1)
Rome: : +1 (+1)
Carth.: 0 (0)
Bab.: 0 (+1)
India: -1 (-2)
China: 0 (+1)
Mongolia: +1 (+2)
Japan: +1 (+1)
Ethiope: 0 (+1)
Joruba: 0 (+1)
Zulu: +1 (+2)
Maya 0 (+1)
Inca 0 (0)
Iroquois 0 (+1)

? :)

traits:
No, I thought of the standard traits: agricultural, industr., militaristic etc.
That each civ would have 3...

To Rhye & Three Crowns:
Well, I downloaded the C3C 1.22 patch and it still stlls out & dumps me out of the program (either basic or expanded) during the set-up after the start screen. It's still the load error for Ancient Settler. I noticed that in the scenarios file there are 3 files not in the "general" download files: Rhye's of Civ, Rhye's of Civ - X and Rhye's of Civ - XF. ??
J.P.Jones

To Rhye & Three Crowns:
Well, I downloaded the C3C 1.22 patch and it still stlls out & dumps me out of the program (either basic or expanded) during the set-up after the start screen. It's still the load error for Ancient Settler. I noticed that in the scenarios file there are 3 files not in the "general" download files: Rhye's of Civ, Rhye's of Civ - X and Rhye's of Civ - XF. ??
J.P.Jones

hmm... maybe you also need to update Civ3 to 1.29f. Here is the link to the patch:
http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ3/patch/Civ3v129f.exe

Bleh, I have a dilemma: should I continue conquering for the fun of it on my Germany beta game, or should I stop soon so I can finally do that clean install of RoC+X that I have been planning to do since v1 and start a new game?
I'm just having so much fun conquering the world in the Germany game, I don't ever wanna stop... I'm preparing now to conquer India (even though I don't share any real borders with them, other than those of one colony and another city I'm about to create to stage the war from.)

Oh, right, you're still stuck in the beta :lol:

Consider that you've never tried the so-much-requested ship of the line

To Rhye & Three Crowns:


Three CLOWNS, not Three Crowns.

soma->the SG awaits for you

It waits most impatiently! ;p

Rhye, if you get a few seconds, would you mind taking a look at some of the things I posted in the scenario I am working on? Its kinda veering from your mod a bit (just a bit ;p) but I have a ton of things I am adding and I figured it would be a good idea to ask what you think (especially in the unit department!) since you ARE lord master modder ;p

Can anyone playing RoX please check the work rate of an enslaved worker against a regular worker? Like (for instance) how many turns does it take for a slave to build a road on a grassland tile, and how many turns does it take a regular worker?

Thanks guys! Between PBEMS and making this scenario, I have had all of five minutes to actually PLAY RoX in the past month.

PS: Ship of the Line is EXCELLENT! I LOVE it. Now I just need to find about two more ;p

Yeah, I love the ship of the line too.

Well, here is the BIQ file, see below!

I belive that it is now playable,
having all the civs (15) that this map needs.

I also think that the civs are kind of balanced,
economically and in size of initial area.

Nevertheless:

It needs feedback, gameplay tests.

And I have no doubts that there is a long way ahead to get it real proper and the quality I hope it can have.

I hope you will enjoy it, as it is now.

Here is a picture of the map, at around BC 1500 or so:

Yesterday I had problems with Carthage, it was TOO strong,
here is a picture to illustrate it:

Maybe the above was not convincing enough? :)
Here is what the situation evolved to:
(city names are not correct here)

Still no fix. Any other sugguestions? All the posts and especially the screenshots have me drooling!

J.P.Jones

Still no fix. Any other sugguestions? All the posts and especially the screenshots have me drooling!

J.P.Jones

Hi!

I don'T know how it can be, but maybe it would help to start it all over from the beginning: erase all civ files and then build it up from the very beginning.

1.
CIV III - basic
2.
CIV Conquest - basic
3.
Update Conquest to 1.22
4.
Get Rhye's basic RoC 2.69
(under .../Conquest/Scenarios)
5.
THEN install the Rhye's Expansion 1.23

I am not sure the basic CIv (1.) must be updated, I guess not, the Conquest is the main base of this Rhye's mod...

The folder order id also important within the Scenarios main folder, but this should be no problem with the new installer... I hope you will solve it some way...

Rhye - I need to shut down this thread. Please open a new thread and PM me so I can shut this one down.

Still no fix. Any other sugguestions? All the posts and especially the screenshots have me drooling!

J.P.Jones


1.
CIV III - basic
2.
Update Civ3 to 1.29
3.
CIV Conquest - basic
4.
Update Conquest to 1.22
5.
Install RoCX with the installer

Rhye - I need to shut down this thread. Please open a new thread and PM me so I can shut this one down.

noooooooooo! :(

Why?
What happened?

It's a database performance thing. Nothing against you, but the way vB handles bigger threads.

so you're going to close it or to DELETE it?

It'll still be here, but closed from posting.

i need to some time to update the links on the site, upload it, and do some other stuff.

how long can you wait for this before closing it? (which is the maximum limit it can reach?)

Its sad to hear.

If you close down Barbarossa, TGW or WW2-Global
they will not reopen.

I have just informed Thunderfall.

Rocoteh

I am very, very sad to hear this closing... :(

Rhye, how long does it take for you to open a new one?
I still wish to keep the "Standard size" version on your page, as you advised...

Early next week or this weekend?

Oh my beloved thread, we have gone a long way together. :sad:
We will all miss thee. :cry:

Rhye! I think of opening a thread where I would just simply put up the BIQ file and some pictures - all discussion of this standard size version would still be on here or the coming thread of yours... :)

I would call it:
Rhye's standard map for 15 civs - RoCXS-15

Do you give me permission for this?

Jeezus, people, it's not the end of the world! The thread will still be here.

Consider it Rhye's, part two.

As for time, Rhye, take all you need. I'm not exactly sure where the problem starts, but better to start the second chapter now, instead of waiting until the db gets trashed, huh?

Turner, I know it's not the end of the world, but this enormous thread holds some sentimental value and we won't see much of it if we don't come here to post anymore. =\

maybe we could bring on some of the memorable posts to the next instalment of this thread? some selection? :)
Somebody could do and list the important #numbers

Rhye! I think of opening a thread where I would just simply put up the BIQ file and some pictures - all discussion of this standard size version would still be on here or the coming thread of yours... :)

I would call it:
Rhye's standard map for 15 civs - RoCXS-15

Do you give me permission for this?

Yes, open that thread.
Then you can choose where to discuss. Your thread is the most appropriate place, but perhaps is mine you'll find some more people lurking.
However, it seems that Aeon's thread is going pretty well.

I'm going to post links for both in the "alternative versions" page of the site

maybe we could bring on some of the memorable posts to the next instalment of this thread? some selection? :)
Somebody could do and list the important #numbers

then we need to save tacfun's posts! :lol:
Soma, you joined the discussion too late, you missed his "variants"

However it's a good idea; I think I'll simply make an index of the main "chapters" of this thread. Like "Sumeria vs Israel", "ibcoltscrew's Napoleon", "tacfun's requests", "the recruiting for the X-pack", etc.

I'll begin to do this now.

It's not the end of the world, but it's a pity that we didn't reach 6000 posts - 300 pages. But we can in these 2 days ;)

[/QUOTE]It's not the end of the world, but it's a pity that we didn't reach 6000 posts - 300 pages. But we can in these 2 days ;)[/QUOTE]

Sure we can reach it! with short posts like, er, this...

you see, I have a habit of teeling things in separate posts,
I always have sg. to add... :)

Spam will not be tolerated.

But I think we can let the thread go until 6000.

Rhye, make sure when you create the new thread, to link to this one. Put something in about 6k posts if you feel like it.

Really, it's an accomplishment. I would rather not have to do it. But keeping a few long threads open, and the potential to hurt the forum doesn't make a lot of sense. We could start a new thread, or start a new board. I think the new thread would be easier.

V. Soma, I am very interested in playing your new Standard RocX. Am I correct in assuming that RocX must be fully patched to work?

Keep up the good work guys (sorry to see the thread closed)

no, I guess RoCX 1.21 version is enough (with RoC v2.68), maybe even lesser, too :)

Oh, and I have opened the new thread with this version of Rhye's:
HERE:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=111252

I call it: Clashing of Empires

Would anyone be interested in a detailed visual introduction to the USSE? (Soon to be the USSESA [United Socialist States of Europe and Southern Asia.])
I'm very proud of my empire, I wouldn't mind showing it off a bit. :D

how much detailed? :)
well, why, yes

I'll start with a large map, stretched in photoshop so you can see the details better.
Then I'll take shots of some of my farther-out provinces and the preperations for the invasion into the Indian Subcontinent. Then I'll take some pictures of the Indians losing. Then I'll take some pictures of the new USSESA holdings. Then perhaps you will get the privelage of seeing new African holdings of the newly reformed USPE [United Socialist Provinces of Earth.]
It all depends how long I continue assimilating the future citizens into the union. :D

It would be cool to see I think.

Alrighty then, I'll start pumping out the screenies tomorrow...

well i only joined this thread 25 pages or so ago.

however, it does occur to me that with the basic ROC/ROCX world epic scenario, and the development of at least 3 other variants, maybe ROC does deserve a sub-forum under completed modpacks...

well i only joined this thread 25 pages or so ago.

however, it does occur to me that with the basic ROC/ROCX world epic scenario, and the development of at least 3 other variants, maybe ROC does deserve a sub-forum under completed modpacks...

a nice idea. but I don't think thunderfall will agree :)

well, I accept any of his decisions (except cutting or deleting the thread!).
I've created the index BTW. It contains the links to the main "chapters"

Are you serious? the thread is going down?

...no...

this is the first thread i got into!

this is my 400th post in it... thats (quick counting... darn it... carry the two... ;p) $8

glad you guys noticed my thread haha but its mostly my posting stuff in it. I have a TON of statistics... but not enough skill with the graphics to carry through on the dream... so far i have gotten some help, but I still cant make them work right!

still... i cant believe it...

a nice idea. but I don't think thunderfall will agree :)

well, I accept any of his decisions (except cutting or deleting the thread!).
I've created the index BTW. It contains the links to the main "chapters"
Thanks for your cooperation, Rhye! Having the longest thread on CFC is certainly something to be proud of! :goodjob: If extremely long threads don't hurt forum performance, I would have loved to see this thread go to 10K posts! :)

I will close this thread soon, after you finish setting up the new thread.

I've seen your PM.

I'll open the new thread one of the next days, ok?

I've seen your PM.

I'll open the new thread one of the next days, ok?
No problem. :)

I've created the index BTW. It contains the links to the main "chapters"

Where is the index Rhye? Did you include your recent "Italian lessons"?

It'll be sad when this volume of the book finishes. 292 pages has been a good read.

Cheers.

Seriously! Look at who has posted here (especially recently!) its becoming a who's who of the site ;p

Even funnier, this is more activity than the thing has seen in days haha. Reminds me of the pre-release wars ;p

It was already dying... now its just dead.

By the way, now that I've used Guerilla a bit in my Germany beta game, I actually think I may have imsunderestimated (;P) them when I suggested that they be made support-free and given lower hp... They're actually very useful if you have colonies in Africa or SE Asia and want to take some of your opponents' colonies... But I have yet to see if the changes that were made due to my complaint have made these units more useful or less.

EDIT: The modern paratrooper, however, is not as strong as I would have liked, and we should consider boosting paratrooper stats while lowering their HP a bit (to reflect that these were small, highly-trained units.)

it does occur to me that with the basic ROC/ROCX world epic scenario, and the development of at least 3 other variants, maybe ROC does deserve a sub-forum under completed modpacks...

Oh, I would LOVE this idea would come to be reality... :)

BTW:
I have the standard map version (Clashing Empires) evolving,
now there is a new BIQ put up there in the thread,
with units corrected and UUs implemented.

the thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=111252

I ask you that in case you have observations, feedback, request, anything to say about this "standard sized version of RoCX", please visit this new thread, so that it is easier to follow things there.

Okay everyone... It is time for your tour of the USPE to begin...
First, a couple maps. One clean, and one with a black outline to show where the Union's vast borders lie (the grey is simply hard to see on the map.)

And now for an introduction to the Union's friends and enemies...
One more next post.
And I forgot to take a pic of South America, where there are a few European colonies, and a chunk of American territory... The Spanish used to control all of it, but America proved its worth as an ally when they demolished the Spanish presence in S. America.

So here's a last opponent-shot (for now) and all of the Union shots I had time to get.

Oh, and any German-speaking readers: if I didn't write province names correctly, tell me the correct way... I'm still a beginner, so I had very limited tools to use when naming places.

Oh, on a completely unrelated note, we should rename the Modern Paratrooper to either "Airborne Infantry" or "Airborne Cavalry", as those names are closer to what people actually call them... I mean, nobody ever says "yeah, I'm in the army, I'm a modern paratrooper..."

blas, can you attach here the fonts you used to write indian and chinese comments?

blas, great pictures. But who controls north africa and arabia?

a nice idea. but I don't think thunderfall will agree :)

well, I accept any of his decisions (except cutting or deleting the thread!).
I've created the index BTW. It contains the links to the main "chapters"

Rhye, where are the links to the chapters?

Oh, and any German-speaking readers: if I didn't write province names correctly, tell me the correct way... I'm still a beginner, so I had very limited tools to use when naming places.
Well, actually you hardly used any "province names" at all but just direction prefixes for country names ;)
Other than that, I only found two mistakes:
1. Hungary's called Ungarn not Ungar
2. Nobody says [insert country name]szentrum (nor the technically correct "[name]s Zentrum"). Maybe "Mitteldeutschland", although I'd simply stick to "Berlin". What's wrong with city names?

@Rhye: The fonts are both from www.dafont.com. The one I used for India is called "Electroharmonix" and the one I used for China is called "Chinese Takeaway".

@Barak: The western 2/3 of North Africa are controlled by Carthage. East of that there's a small no-man's-land (left over from some war Carthage was in, possibly with England) and then one English city just west of Egypt. I control Egypt and recently I founded the Suez Canal. Arabia is all-Arab at the moment... For a while China and Spain had cities there, but at some point in the Great War (the world vs. Spain) those cities switched hands, and eventually I took one that the English had nuked and gifted it to the Chinese after a while... But they abandoned it or it was destroyed or something. And India controlled one Arabian city for a bit a while ago, but the Arabs took it back. It would have been far more interesting to fight the Indians back then, when they had southern Iran and northern Arabia... Now it'll just be a simple invasion of the subcontinent. (Though I will make it very interesting, using paratroopers liberally.)

Well, actually you hardly used any "province names" at all but just direction prefixes for country names ;)
Other than that, I only found two mistakes:
1. Hungary's called Ungarn not Ungar
2. Nobody says [insert country name]szentrum (nor the technically correct "[name]s Zentrum"). Maybe "Mitteldeutschland", although I'd simply stick to "Berlin". What's wrong with city names?
Well, they *are* province names, they just don't use a very original naming convention. =P
But if you have something more like real province names, of the sort that could be used by such a large empire, I'd like to hear them.
Anyway, I don't want any city names, since on this scale it's kinda stupid to name a thing "Berlin" when the land that it uses sprawls the entire northern third (or even half) of Germany and some of western Poland.
Anyway, should I replace all the "[]szentrum" with "Mittel[]"? Is there some other universally correct way to say "central [countryname]"?

Rhye, where are the links to the chapters?

i'll put them in the new thread

@Rhye: The fonts are both from www.dafont.com. The one I used for India is called "Electroharmonix" and the one I used for China is called "Chinese Takeaway".


that's a great site!

that's a great site!
Yup. Ever since I've found it, I've never looked for English fonts anywhere else.

Ryes, you posted:

1.CIV III - basic
2.Update Civ3 to 1.29
3.CIV Conquest - basic
4.Update Conquest to 1.22
5.Install RoCX with the installer[/QUOTE]

Did 1 - 4, but downloaded RoCX in 5 parts. Did this make a difference?

J.P.Jones

This mod is indispensible. I have an older PII Laptop that I still use when I travel. Loaded C3C on it but most mods take forever to load. This mod however loads well and plays well. Now I can take Civ with me where ever I go. Great job.

Ryes, you posted:

1.CIV III - basic
2.Update Civ3 to 1.29
3.CIV Conquest - basic
4.Update Conquest to 1.22
5.Install RoCX with the installer

Did 1 - 4, but downloaded RoCX in 5 parts. Did this make a difference?

J.P.Jones[/QUOTE]

No, if you install it correctly.

you must unzip first the 4 RoC parts and then the 5 RoCX parts into the Conquests\scenarios folder

i'll put them in the new thread

Can you put them on your homesite also?

Did 1 - 4, but downloaded RoCX in 5 parts. Did this make a difference?

J.P.Jones

No, if you install it correctly.

you must unzip first the 4 RoC parts and then the 5 RoCX parts into the Conquests\scenarios folder[/QUOTE]

I have done this, even wiped everything (including CIV3 & C3C and reinstalling them with appropriate patches) and still get the same error message on the Ancient Settler. The error appears to be in whatever "art" file contains that entry. Which part does? I'll re-download that part & keep trying.

J.P.Jones

there isn't an "ancient settler" included. It's the settler animation. So, check if you've got the settlers folder inside Civilization III\art\units

Oh, and any German-speaking readers: if I didn't write province names correctly, tell me the correct way... I'm still a beginner, so I had very limited tools to use when naming places.

For your province names like (Deutschlands)zentrum you could say Zentral(deutschland). It´s not typical, but sometimes used.

The position of Ostfrankreich is in my opinion more Swiss (in german Schweiz).
Ungar(n) should be Österreich - Österreich could be Southern Germany (Süddeutschland or the province name Franken or Bayern).

Hey i just downloaded RoCX123_setup.exe and was installinging it and it hangs on 100%.

I installed Civ 3 first
Then install Conqquest
Install the patch 1.22 for conquest
then i installed the mod, and it just stuck at 100% for the past 20 mins
trie dto install the patch twice no luck, hangs on 100%
Anyone else having this issue

Hey i just downloaded RoCX123_setup.exe and was installinging it and it hangs on 100%.

I installed Civ 3 first
Then install Conqquest
Install the patch 1.22 for conquest
then i installed the mod, and it just stuck at 100% for the past 20 mins
trie dto install the patch twice no luck, hangs on 100%
Anyone else having this issue
Are you sure that once it hits 100% that the "ok" button appears?

there is no Okay..there is only a stop botton

ANNOUNCEMENT:

After speaking with Thunderfall, I decided to let him close this thread anyway, even if there was the chance to keep it open and slow down all the forum.
I thank Rocoteh for his support in this matter; thanks to him it would have been possible to save it.
But in the end I think we can sacrifice it: the max number of posts was already achieved and I doubt that any other thread will come even close to this record; and the poll is stable now: since 6 months the first row fluctuates from 65% to 66%.

Making the thread sticky will lose some of the usefulness of closing it, but I'd prefer...

Anyway, we can arrive to 5999 posts, so that I'll leave the 6000th to the moderator closing post.
And I'd also like to reach 300 voters in the poll, OR 200 voters of the first row, see what you can do :p

jaguar, the SG awaits for you. Gunner, be ready in case he isn't here.

For your province names like (Deutschlands)zentrum you could say Zentral(deutschland). It´s not typical, but sometimes used.

The position of Ostfrankreich is in my opinion more Swiss (in german Schweiz).
Ungar(n) should be Österreich - Österreich could be Southern Germany (Süddeutschland or the province name Franken or Bayern).
Danke!
I was wondering if Zentral[] works, as that seemed most natural to me as an English speaker ("Central Germany").
About Ostfrankreich, Schweiz, Ungarn, Österreich, and Süddeutschland, I had compared the game map with the map I have in my atlas and the current setup is what I concluded, but I will take another look, as those are very old provinces (the two oldest prefectures) and it's been a while since I've named them all.

Rhye, I have to set proper unit upgradement for my version of RoCX
Do you have a list or table format summary of what unit upgrades to what?
It would be of great help...

no I haven't. You have to track all the pointers in my biq

another thing: can I set the cost of upgrades in the editor?

ANNOUNCEMENT:

After speaking with Thunderfall, I decided to let him close this thread anyway, even if there was the chance to keep it open and slow down all the forum.
I thank Rocoteh for his support in this matter; thanks to him it would have been possible to save it.
But in the end I think we can sacrifice it: the max number of posts was already achieved and I doubt that any other thread will come even close to this record; and the poll is stable now: since 6 months the first row fluctuates from 65% to 66%.

Making the thread sticky will lose some of the usefulness of closing it, but I'd prefer...

Anyway, we can arrive to 5999 posts, so that I'll leave the 6000th to the moderator closing post.
And I'd also like to reach 300 voters in the poll, OR 200 voters of the first row, see what you can do :p


HurraY! Although at this rate, it might take a few years ;p

Lets start an argument about... oh... say making desert tiles impassable ;p

Playing my first game as the Vikings, and was a little surpired to see my warriors upgrade to Berserk (although it does make sense). Why the special rule for them?

Also, does anyone else feel that there should be a global unit between swordsman and Colonial infantry? Especially since the tech gaining colonial infantry is optional.

another thing: can I set the cost of upgrades in the editor?

the upgrade cost is the difference in shields * upgrade cost in general settings

Rhye, I have beeen gone and may have missed your post to the solution for the the Ancient Settler. The attached file is Civ3 units/arts folder. As you can see the ancient settler is not in the folder. Thanks, cylc.

I told you that you miss many units, not only the settlers. They are somewhere else (otherwise how could the standard game work)
I asked you if you've got civ3 gold or complete.
And I asked you to search where you've got those folders.

Playing my first game as the Vikings, and was a little surpired to see my warriors upgrade to Berserk (although it does make sense). Why the special rule for them?

i believe the upgrade paths are determined according to which unit your unique unit replaces. generally, warriors upgrade to spearman, but if your UU replaces your spearman, then that's what warriors go to.

i dont have my upgrade path cheat sheet in front of me, but i'd guess that's the reason - the beserk has stats that are good enough to replace the spearman.

Also, does anyone else feel that there should be a global unit between swordsman and Colonial infantry? Especially since the tech gaining colonial infantry is optional.

absolutely. in my home version of ROCX, i've added back in medieval infantry to feudalism. i had a lot of fun choosing my own flavour units as well. :D

EW

Playing my first game as the Vikings, and was a little surpired to see my warriors upgrade to Berserk (although it does make sense). Why the special rule for them?

Also, does anyone else feel that there should be a global unit between swordsman and Colonial infantry? Especially since the tech gaining colonial infantry is optional.

->because otherwise Scandinavia should build the UU from scratch.

->For 2 reasons: 1- there were no good animations to fill all the flavuors, and 2- because the middle ages were a step back for some things, including the strength of some military. Only armored units (knights, pikes) were better than ancient units at their peak.

Rhye, I set the upgrade paths in Clashing of Empires. Seeing your BIQ file in the editor I found it strange that almost all units upgrade to themselves.
How is that? I set it in mine so that spears upgrade to pikes, not to themselves...
On the whole, I did not understand the theory behind what upgrades to what in the editor, it did not fall in line with what I see in the Pedia, where I can see a clear line of upgrade path: warrior - spear - pike - fusiler... (if I remember well).

In setting the upgrade path I foillow what I see in the Pedia. I can follow it, though at times I have problems with the culture specific graphics - there is no smooth transition at times (e.g. from rifelman to trench inf)...

no!
they upgrade to themselves because "themselves" means the other flavour units, and the UUs in the middle. If you divide the paths, you'll soon find that the whole system won't work

no!
they upgrade to themselves because "themselves" means the other flavour units, and the UUs in the middle. If you divide the paths, you'll soon find that the whole system won't work

Now please explain me this through an example as I don't get the idea... :eek:

And what do you mean under "divide the paths"?
How is "UUs in the middle"?

to "themselves" - exactly to which flavour unit? Is there a system I can follow? Or shall I copy what I see in your BIQ in the editor (for the normal units)... And what about UUs, how should they upgrade?

Why would it NOT work if I set an african warrior upgrade to an african spear?

EDIT:
I am all confused... :(

to "themselves" - exactly to which flavour unit? Is there a system I can follow? Or shall I copy what I see in your BIQ in the editor (for the normal units)... And what about UUs, how should they upgrade?

Why would it NOT work if I set an african warrior upgrade to an african spear?

EDIT:
I am all confused... :(


Warrior upgrades to warrior because within the queue there are several warriors. The first "warrior” upgrades to the second "warrior” which upgrades to the third etc, etc. In this way, each warrior represents a different cultural flavor. It is far easier to have a few upgrade paths that encompass all the units than to have a specific one for each unit upgrade path. For example, a global warrior upgrade path, an archer path, a light horse path, and a heavy horse path. Each flavor unit and UU for every corresponding civ would be in the path.

can you imagine what happens if you do as you were saying....
take an UU...the rider. It will upgrade to cavalry or lancer. And what upgrades to rider? NOTHING.
take the European and Asian "white" warrior. Which of the spearman will be its upgrade? The northern or the Mediterranean or the Eastern? Two of them will have no units upgrading to them.

For this reason, you must chain all the units with the same name, followed by the UUs replacing that unit. After that, you can move to the set of units that are the real upgrade. When you upgrade inside the game, the units that don't show up your civ in the "available to" list are automatically skipped.

Warrior upgrades to warrior because within the queue there are several warriors. The first "warrior” upgrades to the second "warrior” which upgrades to the third etc, etc. In this way, each warrior represents a different cultural flavor. It is far easier to have a few upgrade paths that encompass all the units than to have a specific one for each unit upgrade path. For example, a global warrior upgrade path, an archer path, a light horse path, and a heavy horse path. Each flavor unit and UU for every corresponding civ would be in the path.

Dear God, I still don't get it...
Of course I know that there are many "warriors", each of them belonging to one or more (yes, sometimes more: e.g. Europe and Mediterranean) cultural flavors.
Just what happens then when I upgrade a - let's say - Chinese warrior?
Is it isntantly apgrading to another warrior then jumps to another and finally to one where there is upgrade to a spearman? Err, and to what spearman? Because I see no "general" spearman, all belong to some culture...

What I did yesterday night is having all the "warriors" getting the appropriate upgrade to the similar "spear"... each specific flavoured warrior gets a specific spear as upgrade, and then the spears get likwise thier pikes, and so on... Sometimes the cultural matching is not exact, but well, that is not that a big deal...

Please tell me exactly what should I assign to a Chinese warrior then to let it have the Chinese (Asian) spear upgrade?

can you imagine what happens if you do as you were saying....
take an UU...the rider. It will upgrade to cavalry or lancer. And what upgrades to rider? NOTHING.
take the European and Asian "white" warrior. Which of the spearman will be its upgrade? The northern or the Mediterranean or the Eastern? Two of them will have no units upgrading to them.

For this reason, you must chain all the units with the same name, followed by the UUs replacing that unit. After that, you can move to the set of units that are the real upgrade. When you upgrade inside the game, the units that don't show up your civ in the "available to" list are automatically skipped.

Hah, I kind of getting it... :)
So I have to chain:
Suppose we have 3 warriors (flavors)
1st warrior gets 2nd warrior as upgrade, 2nd gets 3rd as upgrade, 3rd gets... an UU, say, UU1, then UU1 gets UU2, and the final UU gets the first spearman?

Is it so? :)

EDIT:
but in this case a civ cannot have the normal unit and the UU it is in line with, say Romans cannot have spears and hoplites, otherwise it could not be decided what the warrior should upgrade to (proposed the warrior can upgrade to BOTH spear and hoplite). Or s it upgrading to the first it finds in the chain line???

The position of Ostfrankreich is in my opinion more Swiss (in german Schweiz).Ungar(n) should be Österreich - Österreich could be Southern Germany (Süddeutschland or the province name Franken or Bayern).
And additionally,
(Nord/)Ostspanien = Katalonien (Catalunya)
Südspanien = Andalusien (Andalusia)
Westspanien = Portugal :D

@ Rhye:
The problem with the poll is that we can't vote for the most obvious opinion:
I love the mod but sometimes still play the unmodded game, e.g. GOTMs

Hah, I kind of getting it... :)
So I have to chain:
Suppose we have 3 warriors (flavors)
1st warrior gets 2nd warrior as upgrade, 2nd gets 3rd as upgrade, 3rd gets... an UU, say, UU1, then UU1 gets UU2, and the final UU gets the first spearman?

Is it so? :)

EDIT:
but in this case a civ cannot have the normal unit and the UU it is in line with, say Romans cannot have spears and hoplites, otherwise it could not be decided what the warrior should upgrade to (proposed the warrior can upgrade to BOTH spear and hoplite). Or s it upgrading to the first it finds in the chain line???

Example....

Your Chinese warrior will upgrade to the next unit in the queue that is available to China. The next warrior in the queue is NOT for the Chinese, so the computer just moves on. In this case, it is the Asian Spearman which is the next Chinese unit in line.

Take Carthage...They start with a Mediterranean warrior (which we will call warrior 2). When they upgrade the warrior, the computer will look for the next unit in the upgrade path which is selectable by Carthage. It will not be warrior 3 (the Mideastern warrior) or warrior 4 (the African warrior). Next it will go to the spearmen…which it will also skip, since none of them are marked as belonging to Carthage. Finally, after exhausting the spears, it will move to the UUs, where the Numidian Merc is marked as "available to" Carthage. When next upgraded, the computer will go back to the upgrade queue and see where next Carthage is selected. In this case, our UU will return to the regular path and upgrade to the Mediterranean pikeman. Even though there are several pikes it may skip until it picks the correct one.

Make sense?

Within RocX there are some upgrades that do NOT fall in line. For example, the Viking warrior upgrade outside the queue by going to Berserk (sword replacement), while the Roman Warrior upgrades to Legion (also a sword replacement) So in this case, the Civ has to build their spears from scratch.

Very well :)
Now I see what "the UUs in the middle" mean: in the chain btw warrior and spears (taking the example).

So now I know how to do it.
BUT
I still say UU must be built from scratch (trained from early childhood). For a compensation, they will not be much more expensive than a normal unit on their level would be. I say let's try this way... So e.g. Carthage will have the spear available, beside the numidian mercenary... but no warrior will become numidian. But a numidian can be pikeman later on...

Hah, I kind of getting it... :)
So I have to chain:
Suppose we have 3 warriors (flavors)
1st warrior gets 2nd warrior as upgrade, 2nd gets 3rd as upgrade, 3rd gets... an UU, say, UU1, then UU1 gets UU2, and the final UU gets the first spearman?

Is it so? :)


Exact. remember that the flavour lines often mix up. They converge and diverge

I still say UU must be built from scratch (trained from early childhood). For a compensation, they will not be much more expensive than a normal unit on their level would be. I say let's try this way... So e.g. Carthage will have the spear available, beside the numidian mercenary... but no warrior will become numidian. But a numidian can be pikeman later on...

it's your decision. Remember that building a unit from scratch is a disadvantage, especially later on. Many would prefer the standard upgradeable unit.

@ Rhye:
The problem with the poll is that we can't vote for the most obvious opinion:
I love the mod but sometimes still play the unmodded game, e.g. GOTMs

don't worry, the thread will soon be closed so who cares ;)

And additionally,
(Nord/)Ostspanien = Katalonien (Catalunya)
Südspanien = Andalusien (Andalusia)
Westspanien = Portugal :D

Danke. :)
I can't believe I actually forgot that Portugal was there...
By the time I got to that area, it was all Spanish and the two southwestern cities were just nuked by the British.
That was the first set of many nukings in the game. That crazy ol' Lizzy with her big red button. :crazyeye:

this is greAt i havent downloaded it but the idea is fantastic! i had a correct starting location world map by el mencey but that took forever to load. i hope this is better. ps are there any barbs?

sure. there are different kind of barbs, depending on the continent.

i have a problem. when ever i try to play i cant find it con the civ content menue. i dnt know if i have to install all the files or what. it think i downladed 1 big file. pease help ill pm you.

i installed the installer . that was the big file.

no don't pm me, my box is almost full.
you probably installed it in the wrong folder. Uninstall it and check where your Civ3 is.

Hi. It's been a long time since ive played CIV3(5 to 6months :sad: ) i wonder if anyone even remembers me....i'm gonna install it maybe after i get ungrounded :D and will definetly buy CIV4 when it comes out, ok now going back to the topic:

IS THERE A RECORD FOR MOST POSTS IN A SINGLE SUBJECT ???
keep it going some things here are funny..... :goodjob:
(forgot to say has you can see my account is more newer only 27posts)

soma - you've got it.

edit: post deleted as unnecessary - i didnt realise there were more responses :mischief:

EW

I've just started this mod as the Americans playing under Reagent. Some of the things I quite like about it but others I don't.

I'm finding it really quite difficult, more difficult than I think I should be.

First of all, it's around 1400AD and I only JUST reached the Middle Ages, this is also doing some EXTENSIVE trading on my behalf. I also have around a pitiful 6 cities so far although the other American tribes arn't so much better.

My main gripe is that while the 'Palace Guards' and 'Palace Bonus' and what have you make it balanced for the Europeans, I find it almost impossible to wage a successful war on the American continent at ALL, and the consiquence of that is Europe and Asia race so far ahead of you you really do not have much hope.
Combine that with the way over powered UU of the Iroquios that can cut down pretty much any defenisve unit available to you at the time, the shere lack of production you have (my most productive cities take around 30 turns to spit out a settler), and the annoying terrain that blocks off most of your settling spots delaying settling even LONGER I think you have gone out of your way too much to delay the Americans at the beginning.

I will continue playing this game to see how it goes, but so far I am having more frustration than fun, particulary because of the Iroquios relative ease at destroying my defensive units compared to my relative difficulty at destroying theirs.
I have an offensive army of around 15 swordsmen, 2 catapults, and 3 archers (for defensive purposes) that took me until 1400AD to build up. I am running a very large gold deficiet (I see Republic is pretty much useless now also) and I have basically no chance of taking their capital which is defended by no more than 3 spearmen. One swordsman is lucky if it even inflicts a HP of damage.

I feel that this war will just be a stalemate due to the inability to capture their capital and the massive time it takes to build a settler, and Ill end up in this situation for the rest of the game, trailing the Euro/Asian AI players with my pathetic productivity.
I can always wait until I get MDI as I am ahead in tech but by that stage the rest of the world will be so far ahead it will take a miracle to catch up.

Anyone else had any success playing as the Americans?

Hi, DaveDash!

It was good to read your report on America!

I played with them a game a long time ago (on emperor) and I have to say that they are quite a challange but yes, you can win with them!

What I remember as key points:

It is intentional that settling is slow and that American civs develop slowly. This is historically accurate, whatever difficulty it means...
But the Americans get the chance: build Statue of Liberty and hey, in a blick you will be on par with the world in tech. (that is, if you have communications.)
And by that time you will have the whole North-America as yours...

1.
settling
In RoCX, civs have only a couple of cities, usually. So having more than 5 is quite a lot! :)

2.
Concentrate on economy and tech-trades.
Why to wage wars with the Iroquois when they can make good tech-partners?

3.
Wait with wars until you get a clear advantage in development... Yes, those pesky tomahawk warrioir of the indians are hard to come over...

So, be patient and build your way to Liberty :)

I here want to say thanks for the help with upgrades setting.
I keep to my ideas about UUs, though... :)

Thanks Soma, I suspected as much (as I've read most of this thread) ;)

Ill keep going at it. In my game, the Iroquios are probably the weakest of the four American nations(apart from their UU's) and I decided to wage war on them NOW before it was too late (i.e. I wanted to get territory to catch up with Europe).

Also, they settled in really annoying places around me and producing settlers of my own seems to be too slow so I decided to conquer them, unfortunately that route seems very tough also.

I will keep playing and see how it goes, thanks for the advice.

Well Im pretty much throwing the towel in on my America game.

It's 1865 and I only have three Middle Age techs, but I'm also the tech leader on my continent so I can't trade for more. Last I checked in a history book the United States was well out of the Medieval ages by the 1865's but not so for me.
The Maya's and Aztecs have waaaaaaaay more cities than me(10-15ish), I really don't know how they got that many as the Maya and Aztec pretty much have me surrounded with plenty of room to expand on South America. The Maya even managed to colonize Florida 1 turn before I did, thus denying me an extremely important luxury resource, partly because I had to take a very annoying route around some marshland.
Oh, did I mentioned those annoying barbarians that are extremely strong? Thus even slowing the human player down even MORE by having to have large escorts with each settler (that already takes ages to build). The AI seem ok with their UU's tho that can easily take care of any barbarians.

There is no where to go, I can't build up any sort of army to expand without going massively into debt and most of my neighbours have UU's to counter whatever I can build anyway.
Cows and so forth have appeared around my cities but far to little to late, and also because of the new city caps (5 and 10) they're pretty useless. Republic is useless beyond belief now with the 'smaller' empires, I don't understand the Unit cost as it isn't very historically accurate (In the Roman Republic before the Marius reforms Hastati/Principes/Triarii BOUGHT their own gear, so why does my republic seemingly pay for it? It also wasn't a professional army either at this point in time either.)

This mod, or the American race is clearly designed for people much better at the game than I, all in all a very frustrating first round. Hopefully Ill have more luck next time but I don't plan on playing America again any time soon.

Oh, and absolutely no sign from Europe and none of us can build ships that can get there. I also see the mod designer 'blocked' off Northern Canada making it impossible to get to the bearing straight from the U.S. east coast.

No ship from Europe? Not a single one???
Oh I would build galleys and send them to the Caribbeans just to catch a few Europeans sailing there for contact...

Cows... just don'tell me they are useless! :) +2 food and +1 shield is quite sg.!
Sure there is the 5 cap, but then you can have more shields with those 5...

I hope you will try again with the American (regent level?), it is challanging but can be a great experience when having success...

hello dave,

you're probably so slow because of the difficulty level. As written in the readme, Emperor level is the one used for balancing. Lower levels mean that the whole world discovers techs slowly and AMerica could not be discovered. Levels higher than demigod may affect loading times and alter the tech pace in the opposite way.
Probably if you played with Emperor, your neighbours would have been faster in researching, and better partners. As Soma said, your main goal is the Statue of Liberty. That brings equity in the game and starts your revenge!
In the readme there's also written that the true difficulty depends on the choice of the civ more than the level itself (which instead as you've seen has other effects). European civs are the easiest (for some experienced players, too easy even in demigod), American civs (except America, a bit stronger) the weakest.
Consider taking an easier civ, raising the difficulty level and reading the strategy guide
http://rhyesciv.uw.hu/strategy.html

@Dave: too many swords, not enough catapults. Hit them right away, block them up north with warriors carefully positioned. Build more workers and less settlers. Play as England and learn the mod a bit, because America is really rather difficult to bring off. I think I may have managed it once, and I have some pretty extensive experience with the mod. As to enemy UUs, use your cities as your weapons. If you do a lot of work improving your territory, you can easily beat down the AI.

IN RELATED NEWS!

1000 POSTS! 1000 POSTS!

huah! Just wanted to post my 1000th on your page Rhye, since I put about half of them here! ;p

I played a very successful game as America a little while back on Emperor. I started by getting lucky and popping a settler from a goodie hut, which helped as I got a second city pretty fast.

Its true that the Iroquois lag behind in tech, but I was able to figure out what they were working on, so I was able to trade a bit with them early on. Their biggest issue is not expanding as quickly as the Americans I was controlling.

I was able to expand to control the US east of the Mississippi with good cities in modern Washington, Chicago, Florida, Atlanta, New Orleans, Cleveland, and St Louis. At this point with a stack of Swords, I took the 2 Iroquois cities in the American NE, and proceeded to expand as much as I could into the American plains to the foot of the Rockies. Making contact with the Aztecs helped me to get the last ancient tech around 900 AD or so letting me get to the middle ages.

One advantage I got was getting 2 (count them 2!!!) SGL, which I got in the ancient era (one from Philosophy, the other from Monarchy) which helped me to build some of the Christian Wonders (since I made a beeline for them).

Once the Iroquois were gone, and I started to expand in to the American SW, I started to lag behind in tech, but I was building a good infrastructure of roads which allowed me to start a very long and costly war against the Aztecs.

In the mid 15th Century, I made contact with my first European Civs (Germany) and Asian Civ (Japan). Interestingly enough, they were working on different areas of the tech tree, so I was able to trade Tobacco Aztec Dyes and Incense for technology. I became the tech trade conduit between east and west until I was able to build the Statue of Liberty in the early 19th century which allowed me to get a tech lead which I never relinquished.

Around 1900, I got sick of seeing European shipping in my waters, and began a series of wars (Monroe doctrine) with the Spanish and Portuguese until I controlled the Iberian, and their few colonies in South America.

By the dawn of the 21st Century, I controlled Iberia, Italia, and France, with strong allies in the English, Germans, Dutch, Japanese and Korean (who had quite the colonial empire).

It was a fantastic game, which quite frankly I got bored with since I was so powerful and wide spread. The American west coast never really was able to develop. I built cities Around LA and SF in California, that couldn't really grow, even though they were near my FP (build around Denver) and the India Trading Company (built in Mexico).

Oh, I just want to ask again how to make it that NO settler would come out of the goody huts? Please answer me in a hurry, I leave in 10 minutes and want to make this etting at home...

(I plan to get rid of most of the goody huts anyway, having them only in America...)

Oh, I just want to ask again how to make it that NO settler would come out of the goody huts? Please answer me in a hurry, I leave in 10 minutes and want to make this etting at home...

(I plan to get rid of most of the goody huts anyway, having them only in America...)

IIRC, you should remove it as a starting unit in general settings. then assing a settler to each civ from the player properties.

can anybody write a strategy guide for America to help david? Barak, do you want?

IN RELATED NEWS!

1000 POSTS! 1000 POSTS!

huah! Just wanted to post my 1000th on your page Rhye, since I put about half of them here! ;p

yes I noticed that :)

can anybody write a strategy guide for America to help david? Barak, do you want?

I will see if I can find the save from that game, so I wouldn't have to write one from memory. I'll let you know later in the day (9:30 AM here in Chicago and at work now).

can anyone post the differences on the new governments? im at work and donthave access to my civ3 but alas I can read this site... btw AMAZING mod...albeit I had NO clue what i was bulding when i tried to play as the Koreans...but thats ok.

Still tryin'
I have done multiple attempts at loading the Rhye scenario + expansion and am obviously doing something wrong as the "ancient settler" error continues to appear. Since this is my first attempt at a multiple download, what should the scenario folder look like? I have 2 "icon-like" entries and three folders therein.
J.P.Jones

JPJ, check if you've got the folder "settler" inside ...\Civilization III\art\units\
you said you've got the English/US version and it isn't civ3gold or complete.
In case the answers are affermative, try to download the 160MB installer

The Governmental differences are as follows:

Despotism: BAD. Leave it. It sucks more than a shop vac on steroids

Oligarchic Republic: A good government for the peaceful builder or the tech racer. Units are expensive, so its best for an isolated civ like England or Japan. Only ancient government with the standard trade bonus

Theocratic Monarchy: Early Warmongrel govt. Its best for civs that want to engulf a lot of contested territory at the start (like Russia, America, France, and China)

Feudal Monarchy: a good all around government... but only for big civs. More corrupt than OR, but easier on the unit load.

Absolute Monarchy: This is a dangerous government. It is QUITE effective for a small civ with large cities and a lot of enemies (did someone say FRANCE? ;p), but most warmongers are already done with Europe by this time. It is still an excellent government, but an Oligarchic Republic may still be the better choice for a tech rusher... so long as you dont expand the ole army.

Constitutional Monarchy: its pretty useless. cool idea, but still useless. Its not good enough to beat out a democracy in tech, and not good enough to beat out a facist or commie in troops. Its fun if you have an identity crises, but otherwise just choose something else.

Democratic Republic: tech chaser's dream. This government hemorrages money! If you want to pay people to fight for you, this is your government! Works best when you only have to protect your frontier and can leave your interior cities empy (America?)... which incidentally often allows you to field a small strike force (usually VERY high tech). Only modern government with the standard trade bonus

Facism: if you find yourself a bit behind in infrastructure, excellent choice. The higher big city unit support of 9 means that it is best for small, large city civs (Germany? Italy?). You might be able to keep up in tech due to the bursting of your infrastructure, but eventually you will fall behind.

Communism: its not really communism in the true sense, but it represents the totalitarian governments of the USSR etc. good support from all cities, so you are encouraged to build/capture a lot to support an ever larger army. You will still fall behind in tech, though.

The stuff I said above holds true only if you have enemies equal to you in strength. If you are playing on warlord as England, then even with Feudalism you will lead in tech.

Oh, and ALWAYS PLAY your FIRST game as ENGLAND!

There is no better way to safely learn how to play RoX or RoC on the world map than with England. It is designed to be a superpower, and it is GOOD at it. You will be able to AT LEAST remain at parity with your foes.

If you do play as England, be sure to colonize Brazil, rather than making an attempt to secure Africa. Brazil is usu the last place colonized by the AI, and has every resource England needs. Its a nice civ to start with for anyone.

The Governmental differences are as follows:

Despotism: BAD. Leave it. It sucks more than a shop vac on steroids

Oligarchic Republic: A good government for the peaceful builder or the tech racer. Units are expensive, so its best for an isolated civ like England or Japan. Only ancient government with the standard trade bonus

Theocratic Monarchy: Early Warmongrel govt. Its best for civs that want to engulf a lot of contested territory at the start (like Russia, America, France, and China)

Feudal Monarchy: a good all around government... but only for big civs. More corrupt than OR, but easier on the unit load.

Absolute Monarchy: This is a dangerous government. It is QUITE effective for a small civ with large cities and a lot of enemies (did someone say FRANCE? ;p), but most warmongers are already done with Europe by this time. It is still an excellent government, but an Oligarchic Republic may still be the better choice for a tech rusher... so long as you dont expand the ole army.

Constitutional Monarchy: its pretty useless. cool idea, but still useless. Its not good enough to beat out a democracy in tech, and not good enough to beat out a facist or commie in troops. Its fun if you have an identity crises, but otherwise just choose something else.

Democratic Republic: tech chaser's dream. This government hemorrages money! If you want to pay people to fight for you, this is your government! Works best when you only have to protect your frontier and can leave your interior cities empy (America?)... which incidentally often allows you to field a small strike force (usually VERY high tech). Only modern government with the standard trade bonus

Facism: if you find yourself a bit behind in infrastructure, excellent choice. The higher big city unit support of 9 means that it is best for small, large city civs (Germany? Italy?). You might be able to keep up in tech due to the bursting of your infrastructure, but eventually you will fall behind.

Communism: its not really communism in the true sense, but it represents the totalitarian governments of the USSR etc. good support from all cities, so you are encouraged to build/capture a lot to support an ever larger army. You will still fall behind in tech, though.

The stuff I said above holds true only if you have enemies equal to you in strength. If you are playing on warlord as England, then even with Feudalism you will lead in tech.
Constitutional Monarchy proved very very useful to me as England a while back in the alpha, when I was colonizing and leading in tech and building up an invasion force.
And Communism is basically the only workable gov't for large empires. The further you are past the OCN, the more of an edge Communism has over any other gov't. So, if you have a large empire, go Commie. You will make much better use of all of your territory, and so you will still lead in tech. And you're almost guaranteed to have plenty of cash to pay your veteran spies with. :)
If anyone wants some tips on waging war as a massive Communist empire, I think I may have some. It will take some thinking to dig them out of my brain, but I think they're there... I have, after all, waged several massive wars in my game, and, iirc, never lost a since city that I had not just conquered. And that was just a couple cases. :)

Constitutional Monarchy proved very very useful to me as England a while back in the alpha

Back before you could change governments in a turn or two? Bet you ten dollars it was ;p

Given a choice, a player should specialize. It is far more effective to use a tech chaser and convert to warmongrel at need if you are playing as England. As Germany, I am more than willing to bet that it is far more effective to simply go nuts with Theo=>

Speaking as someone who has played with England quite frequently (and only on Deity now... next game, its Sid) I can say that I was most effective going like this:

=>OliRep
=> Absolute (Primary Expansion Phase... early wars are too easy and kill off all the people who are fun later, like France)
=> DemoRep (one time Facism... that was... interesting).

I quit before the end of every game, but then I also play with all win conditions off.

China is another favorite of mine, as are the underrated Mongols. You actually CAN go Ghengis if you are quick and careful.

I almost always play as a warmonger and choose the following governments:
=> (Theo. Mon. - only to get out of Despotism, I do not like the culture restrictions) => Feudal Mon. => (Abs./Con. Mon. - usually I am in "Total War" mode and stay in Feudal for a very long time) => Communism.

I am currently playing a peaceful game - just to try something different. => Ol. Rep. => Dem. Rep.
It is a quite different game. I can only stay in the green by getting 200-300 gpt through trade, but it looks like that I am going to reach Modern Age very early. I do not know if I will play it through, since it takes a lot of time to maintain trading deals with 30 civs...
Oh, I am playing as Germany (because they are a peaceful nation...), Emperor. I had a rough start - Berlin was attacked by 10 barbarians.

Yeah you guys are probably right, It's actually probably easier if I put the difficulty UP due to the whole tech issues.

I might start again as England and then colonize the U.S. ;) I think the U.S. was a difficult nation to try this mod out first of all which probably lead to my frustrations - I also had a lot of bad luck and the AI's really seemed to cram around me.

Soma: I tend to find catapults less than useful on the offensive. I like the on the defence though.

I believe that catapults (and all other artillery units) are less useful now, with the extra HP's. I know that they are made more powerful to compensate, but maybe they should have gotten a higher RoF instead of a higher attack rating.

I still use them a lot; in fact, I find them more useful because of the bonus hitpoints. Its the only way that my smaller, usually outgunned, armies managed to beat down enemies in the hardcore landings they are so often forced to engage in ;p

Nothing like watching a short stack of 5 longbows, 5 knights, and 10 trebs ram their way through a strongly defended Paris ;p

Wanna hear a duh on how to make some air units incapable of landing on carriers? Give them a transport of one, and dont give them unload. They wont be able to land on the carriers, but they also wont be able to load units (especially if you make it so that only wheeled and only foot and only tac missiles can board them).

Just kinda percolated into my brain, and since I have no use for it I figured Id share it here ;p

...which isnt to say I wouldnt have blabbered it all over even if I did have a use for it haha

as a builder-style player, i'd say oligarchic republic is one of the bigger disappointments in the mod. the improvement over despotism is hardly noticeable - some cities produce more shields or growth, because of removing the limitations on production per square, but the higher unit upkeep costs are not offset by the meagre improvement to corruption.

and with no decent builder government alternative until democracy, it's a real hit to the builder-type player.

in fairness, the documentation is very clear that one must fight for territory, particularly early. however, it does pose a "style" issue for players with a builder preference.

EW

Hi folks!

Rhye, thanks again for the goody huts setting tip - now I understand...

I just want to report on the the standard map version of RoCX,
CLASHING OF EMPIRERS
has reached BETA v3,
with properly working unit upgradement and enhanced UUs
and with exciting ancient wars!
:)

Can be checked out in the thread in Completed Modpacks...

JPJ, check if you've got the folder "settler" inside ...\Civilization III\art\units\
you said you've got the English/US version and it isn't civ3gold or complete.
In case the answers are affermative, try to download the 160MB installer

The three folders containing "art" I have are in the "scenarios" section, not specifically in the folder you noted (above). That folder still has only the standard units. ???

Also, setting out here in the Pennsylvania mountains, we're still on copper landlines and DSL is not offered, so a 22+ hour download of the 160MB installer is not an option.

J.P.Jones

can anybody post for JPJ the screenshots of the correct Civilization III\art\units and Conquests\scenarios? I've a mess in my HD so it's better if somebody else does it

Announcement for the elite players of RoX:
tired of dominating? Game too easy?

The multiplayer version awaits you! Choose an European civ and let's see if you can fool other human players :D

as you can see, the map is small (80x108) and it's more or less, a cut of the standard one. 8 players, with a selection from 11 european civs. Middle eastern, african and american civs are replaced with strong barbs. In Europe instead nothing was changed. This means that you can play and find everything in the place you would have found in single player mode.

The more want to join, better it is (so no slot is given to the AI). And of course, I want to be one of the eight, well just for watching you kill each other.

So, have got a free evening? I'm anxious to see who's stronger between strategy guide writers (EW, TC, Soma) and experienced players (Aeon, Blas) and who knows, anybody wants to join. I remember Horton and Iztvan were very strong. If we don't find enough people I'll try to call them after we've decided the date.

BTW the map is complete, but I have a doubt. Right now it is 8 civs out of 11. It means that the choice is yours, but 3