I've expanded Kello's guide to Incas. I need a grammatical check before posting it. Please anybody correct any mistake and post the fixed txt. And I need a 1 out of 5 rating for them. Of course they're weak, but perhaps there's somebody who's worse (Iroquois?) So, what? 1? 1.5? 2?

I'll expand beernuts guide to Ottomans soon.

I must say that I am against the clear wetlands. I believe that if it should be possible, it should require at least 300 worker turns. With a 90 turn clear wetlands it would simply become a game to see who can get to South America the fastest.
I have had clear wetlands=80 turns for several games now, available at Steam Power (this means that jungle takes 120 turns in the game; marsh, 80). It takes massive numbers of workers to clear a tile in 12-20 turns, so many that I often wonder if I am wasting my workers! The AI will occasionally apply ONE worker to clear a wetlands tile. South America can be made useful, but it takes massive effort, and a long time.

Kello's guide is good. I'd rate them 1 out 5, their start is just brutal.

Rhye, there's a nice way to mirror Immortals being cheap, without putting them at a disadvtange compared to Enkidus:
Free support.
You can even make them cost 25 and they would still be amazingly useful... You could possibly make huge stacks of them to conquer with.
Dunno, just an idea.

I have had clear wetlands=80 turns for several games now, available at Steam Power (this means that jungle takes 120 turns in the game; marsh, 80). It takes massive numbers of workers to clear a tile in 12-20 turns, so many that I often wonder if I am wasting my workers! The AI will occasionally apply ONE worker to clear a wetlands tile. South America can be made useful, but it takes massive effort, and a long time.Numbers I thought of when I heard of this:

Industrious civ: x1.5
Replaceable parts: x2
Democracy/Fascism: x2

90 turns base
60 turns after Industrious
30 turns after Replaceable parts
15 turns after Democracy/Fascism
3 turns after applying five workers

The Incans could kick ass with this, so long as they managed to keep up with tech (Hard) or if they managed to do well with tech trades once they got access to the old world.

who's worse (Iroquois?) So, what? 1? 1.5? 2?
Iroquois in my opinion deserve -5... Cause... Years 1800, 2 town, couple of spearman... that's very bad for a civilization that suppose to represente the Canada LOL.

Iroquois in my opinion deserve -5... Cause... Years 1800, 2 town, couple of spearman... that's very bad for a civilization that suppose to represente the Canada LOL.

Again with that!!!! Iroquois aren't Canada!!!
The closest civ to Canada is America.

However a strategy guide could help you to play with them. Don't expact it to be easy, but you can steal some key spots to America, and when the Europeans arrive, begin raising to the top INSTEAD OF America

Kello's guide is good. I'd rate them 1 out 5, their start is just brutal.

Is grammar OK?

grammar is fine

I didn't uderstand a thing...the number of turns to clear wetlands is too much or too few?

Again with that!!!! Iroquois aren't Canada!!!
The closest civ to Canada is America.

Don't be mad Rhye. :mischief:

I've posted the guide to Incans.
Ottomans soon.

I have a suggestion. I believe seeing as gurilla fighters havnt got much going for them they should be able to walk on mountains and jungles. This would make them far more gurilla like. Anyway only if its possible.

Thanks Tyrion. We discussed this thing long ago. The natural setting for guerrilla is of course "not wheeled". The problem was that this was pointless, as none of the weaker civs ever built them.
It was coming too late. In fact there was a huge gap between Med.Inf. and guerrilla.

Some months later I released a patch which enphatized the use of Flintlock Infantry: they are part of the chain spearman-to-infantry, while riflemen are out, and instead are in med-inf-to-guerrilla-tow.inf.
That's because riflemen were historically a cheaper kind of army, without regular training. This way, the flintlock (upgrading to nothing) problem was solved, and there was something added in the middle of the path.

Right now, the situation of the cheaper units chain is:
med.inf. (iron) -> rifleman -> guerrilla (bombard) -> tow.inf. (bombard)

You see that now the main problem (inheritated from Firaxis) is that med.inf. requires iron: a civ that hasn't access to iron, will build spearmen.
So, if we want to go further in historical realism combined with balancing, not only guerrilla but the whole line needs a re-thinking.
about med.inf. I propose 2 solutions (as usual, I'll change only if I get enough people agreeing):
- substituting med.inf. with another unit (and another animation, a soldier without an iron plate): I could call it med.inf again, or man-at-arms, and it doesn't require iron.
Its natural setting would be 3/3/1 but I fear that it would be unbalancing. This is however, the cheaper unit weak civs need.
- substituting med.inf. with the same animation, same stats, but renamed Mercenary, without the need of iron, and very low cost, and high upkeep. In the late meddle ages the "Cavalieri di ventura" were very famous across all Europe: mercenaries who fought wars often switching side (depending on who was paying best).
after all, if you read Civilopedia you'll find that Firaxis had no clue of what kind of unit it was:
"Troops who fight on foot, even though transported to the battlefield by horses, ships, aircraft, tanks and other
motorized vehicles, skis, or other means are classified as Infantry. This term applies equally to troops armed
with weapons such as the spear, sword, and mace in ancient and medieval times. As with most foot-soldiers, the
objective of the Medieval Infantry was to seize and hold territory, often in an attempt to occupy enemy territory.
Despite the temporary dominance of cavalry in the feudal and middle ages, infantry has been the largest single
element in Western armies since ancient times."


After that, I agree with the not wheeled guerrilla.

What would be unbalancing about a Man-at-Arms (best name for it) with 3/3/1 that's the same as Med Inf except it doesn't require Iron? That fits the anicent-to-early-medieval stat/cost scheme perfectly...
That sounds like a good idea if you ask me.
I think Med Inf should stay as it is just be in a different line (perhaps Med Inf > Berserk > Marine?). As far as I know there's no way to make one unit have a different upkeep than the rest, so the option of a low costm high-upkeep unit does not exist.

oh, you're right, it can't be changed only for one unit.

I was meaning, I fear unbalancing because some players used to attack with med.inf. would be forced to use knights or weaker man-at-arms. I would delete med.inf: there are 3 lines: defensive foot units, offensive mounted units and cheaper units. It's a substitution: no iron for them, but weaker.

But there is another, under-appreciated line of slow units designed exclusively for attack: The Berserk and Marine.
Just like you would never build one of those two for defense, you would never build Med Inf for defense.
And anyway, what about Swordsmen? What line are they in currently?

Well Well,

To add my grain of salt, I say you should leave Med Inf as it is. When I do not have Iron, I wait for another tech that will permit me to build something else or I trade for it.

It's what I think and it's worth wath it's worth.

oh well, that's true, I forgot to see what's behind. There's the swordsman. It's upgrading to med.inf.
OK, nothing 's done. And the guerrilla? Will removing the wheeled flag have some collateral effects?

I'll leave everthing as it is now. There would be too much to change (remember the archers/spearmen attack/defense swap?) if I want to keep things both balanced and realistic. And this goes too far with the purpose of this mod.
Replacing the whole unit system (including the double UU, remember?), will only be an optional expansion pack. Maybe, one day.

Well i played some more and saw that paratroopers could walk on jungle and mountains well it said so in the civlopedia and that makes sense so i cant see why really you could just change the guerrillas. Maybe swap them around or remove the bombard skill. Just my opinion.

If you don't have iron it's archers/spears/catapults and a beeline to invention. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Crippled civs have it harder, that's just the way it is in this mod.

There are big suprises coming. I won't say any detail for now, but something is moving :)

In the meantime, I'd like to play that succession game and complete the strategy page with your help.

Rhye, you have me listed as the author of the Incan guide.

I'd like to take credit for it because it's a good guide but I won't even pretend that I have the patience to play as the Incans hehe

oops :) copy&paste mistake

I just emailed you some new guides. Chinese and Dutch. I'm trying to do one for the Greeks today as well

I need a grammar check to this before posting it.
What's the strength of the Ottomans? 3 out of 5?

I've been played Rhye's Random scenario with some friends a lot this summer, and its been great fun.

But Oy! i got pissed when i saw that but the hanging gardens and the two cathedral wonders all have wine as a prerequisite!

And there are several other wonder prerequisite issues along the same line, incense f.ex.

it works great on the real world map, but not on the random map.

I've changed it myself, but every time a new Rhye version is uploaded, I have to make the same changes again and again, and sometimes i forget something making us moan :cry: (and one of us smirk :D ) after sevreal hours of playtime.

pleeeeease restore wonder prerequisites on the downloadable file :goodjob:

Hello and thank you.
...I did never think of the prerequisites. You're right, it surely needs to br restored as it was. How it is, it's nonsense.
Now I'm going out, I'll post the updated version tonight.

By the way, 4 people downlaoded the txt, but anybody posting the corrected grammar version?

How's Napoleon going iboltscrew?

How's Napoleon going iboltscrew?
It's done but i don't really play civilization since three days... cause i just got !!! DOOM 3 !!! and it's awesome... amazing... unbeleivable... crazy... anyway... I can finally use my new graphic card (GeForce FX 5700 Ultra) :crazyeye: and like everytime, John Carmack made a amazing 3d engine.. the best coder on earth :rolleyes:
I don't think i will play civilization for the next three week :lol: I will be busy playing !!! DOOM 3 !!! . Doom, Doom II, Quake, Quake II, Quake III arena was my BEST games of all time and you know, with Doom 3, i will be out of for a couple week... :cool:

Athlonxp 2000+
512 ram DDR 333mhz
GeForce FX 5700 ultra 128meg DDR II

800 x 600
High Quality
40 fps

Is doom3 out?
amazing...with your video card you have to play only 800x600....I wonder how would it go with my GeForce2 :lol:
Fortunately it's not the game type I prefer, so I don't need to upgrade yet.

->The updated random map version is out.
thanks to SmiteMeister.

->anybody please check the grammar of the ottomans guide I attached in previous page!!

Is doom3 out?
amazing...with your video card you have to play only 800x600....I wonder how would it go with my GeForce2 :lol:
Fortunately it's not the game type I prefer, so I don't need to upgrade yet.
http://www.doom3.com
Yes :D
See you later guys :lol:

Many thanks to jaybe for the corrections. Some of them were my mistypes.

Now, how should I rate Ottomans out of 5? 3? 2.5?

Hi,

Hey, Ryhe have you fixed 2.48 yet? You said you were going to be uploading the fixed version tonight! It still says 2.48 and I don't want to download the broken version with the resource problem that was stated a couple of posts earlier.

Thanks

tacfun

a.k.a. I use to be HeartOfTroy if you remember me?..:)

iboltscrew, you're supposed to let us download the Leaderhead before you go play Doom. :\

tacfun-> Heart of Troy, Troy...what do you change nickname every month?
I suppose you're refering to the Random map version. I've uploaded it some hours ago, as said 2 posts above.

iboltscrew, you're supposed to let us download the Leaderhead before you go play Doom. :\
Ya i know, but i can't upload it, the file is too big. My BulletProof is down and i have to setup my router for my new FTP server. For NOW, I'm lazy and excited by doom 3... i'll see if i can do something about it.

Ottomans are 3 out of 5 IMO.

Later UU and tough starting location keep them out of the top tier.

Mod sounds lovely...hope England get a bigger island than in Civ2 (2 squares i think :( ) Just finished download, and i'll try and get you some screenshots :)

Is that a seperate download? Or is it part of the package download? Confused? Been gone for awhile..lol...Yes I have Identity crisis..lol!

tacfun

tacfun, we're speaking about the "Random map" alternative version, right?
That's what I fixed (the resources as prerequisites for wonders were a problem for the random map only). You have to go to the site (see my signature) and go to the downloads, then to the alternative versions page.

Dauntless-> hello. Let me know if you like it. And vote! :)

thanks Rhye..now I get it. 1 thing I would like is that you take down the link to my Troy mod please. I will do a new one one day and I really didn't like that one and it wasn't complete. If you please would take my Troy mod down on your webpage I would be very happy.

Thank You

tacfun!!

Posted the guide to the Ottomans. Thanks to Beernuts, Jaybe and Horton.

Please remove the link on your website to Troy. I have deleted the file.

Thank You.

tacfun

PS. Can't wait to try your mod again! Your the best..later!

@Rhye: I get the message "text\pediacons.txt":ICON_BLDG_Holy_War" when I try to install the game and then the game exits.

Any ideas to help me out?

Osner, this usually happens if you haven't installed the mod carrectly, or if you didn't patch your Conquests version to 1.22

I've posted the Greek strategy guide.

@Rhye: Any chance to get your mod working on an European version?

what language is yours? Dutch?

@Rhye: No, its English, but I probably bought it in Amsterdam (or from the UK via Amazon - I don't remember).

It states version 1.22 at the openening screen.

Rhye, some of the Roman guide got mixed in with the Greek on the site

Osner, any news? Did it work?

ANNOUNCEMENT

I've posted in the site the "future projects"
http://rhyesciv.uw.hu/projects.html


I'll paste it here:

Rhye's of Civilization EXPANSION PACK

Many have pointed out that Rhye's of Civilization lacks additions.
This was my choice, and I'm convinced that the mod shouldn't be altered with additions that would make happy only half of the people.
So an optional download will be the best solution: if you want the additions you'll download the pack (many MBs), otherwise you'll keep playing with the basic version.
So, what does the pack contain?
Hehe, it's top secret for now. For know it's enough to say that there will be one new civ, many new units, and that the game will not be altered too much. No new tech trees: it's still Civ3. You won't have to read manuals to learn what the game is about.
The release date depends on the stuff I requested to other users (mostly units).



Rhye's of Civilization LITE (for Vanilla)

Rhye's of Civilization v1.0 (for Vanilla and PTW) is obsolete: now it's time to offer an update for those who haven't the Conquests expansion.
Based on the new 134x130 Earth map I've made, this "Lite" version will feature no more than 16 civs in the mean time. The game length will be the standard (540 turns). The rest of the rules should be the same as standard Rhye's of Civilization.

Rhye,

The expansion pack sounds great, I'm looking forward to it. Something I would like to see addressed now though is the near impossibility of winning a cultural victory. With only 400 turns, you have to average 250 culture a turn to get to 100k, in a normal game of 540 turns you only need to average 185. This makes a huge difference especially since settlers take so much longer to build. To win 20k in your mod, you need to average 50 culture per turn, that's practically impossible. Even supposing that you build several ancient wonders you are still unlikely to ever hit 50 culture per turn in any city let along average it over a 400 turn game. In regular civ you only need to get 38 per turn and it is alot easier to dedicate 1 city to culture because other cities can crank out settlers.

I've played dozens of games with different civs and employing different playstyles and I have never even come close to getting either 100 or 20k. I'd like to suggest halving the cultural victory conditions to 10k/50k or else rebalance the amount of culture coming out of various wonders/improvements. Right now, the only real victory conditions in the mod are space/diplo/histographic.

Even bringing down the land/pop requirements for domination would probably be a good idea. At higher difficulty levels even a dedicated warmonger would be very hard pressed to get to 66% of either.

I'm sorry for I haven't done it earlier. The reason is that I didn't find the menu where those values can be changed :lol:
Now I've found it; I'll do it.

There are some aspects of the expansion pack which....I don't know if they can join the basic mod in the next patch or it's better if they all (or a few of them) are in the expansion pack only.
Those are:
-rename "Ancient settler" to "settler", "medieval settler" to "settler " and "modern settler" to "settler ". The space won't be seen ingame, as for the american "Cavalry ".
-rename "Flintlock Infantry" to "Fusilier".
-rename the Ancient Cavalry to "Heavy Horseman" and Medieval Infantry to "Men-at-Arms". That's because nobody at that time call them in that way!!
-reshape enlightenment/napoleonic era: 1) free artistry with printing press as prerequisite instead of enlightenment; 2) remove Theory of Gravity (useless tech) and replace it with "Flintlock musket" (with Milit. Tradition as prerequisite) which allows Cavalry and Fusilier. 3) Grenzer moved to Nationalism; Sipahi moved to Flintlock Musket.

Is the clearing wetlands implemented in v2.48 500 turns? Im playing the Incas in that mod, I see (and have reserached) the clear wetlands ability in my techtree (and civilclopedia) but cant seem to clear either jungle or marshes.

:eek: no it isn't, and it isn't even in all the versions!!!
I'll fix this at once

i noticed you can order the workers to clear the wetlands with the 'advanced' action menu option enabled (in your prefs) and then clicking on the 'automate clear wetlands'

otherwise there is no clear wetlands buttons :(

btw, why are some civs set to never build workers (such as mongols, ethiopia, etc)

because they were nearly nomads. Otherwise they would become too powerful and civilized. Instead they only have the 1st worker.

before posting the patch, I need some feedback about my proposals (5 posts up)

-rename "Ancient settler" to "settler", "medieval settler" to "settler " and "modern settler" to "settler ". The space won't be seen ingame, as for the american "Cavalry ".
I don't see why not... I don't consider it a major thing. Do it now.

-rename "Flintlock Infantry" to "Fusilier".
Do it now.

-rename the Ancient Cavalry to "Heavy Horseman" and Medieval Infantry to "Men-at-Arms". That's because nobody at that time call them in that way!!
Do it now.

-reshape enlightenment/napoleonic era: 1) free artistry with printing press as prerequisite instead of enlightenment; 2) remove Theory of Gravity (useless tech) and replace it with "Flintlock musket" (with Milit. Tradition as prerequisite) which allows Cavalry and Fusilier. 3) Grenzer moved to Nationalism; Sipahi moved to Flintlock Musket.
I haven't played enough to know about these. But can you have a tech in one era be dependent on a tech in another era?

Cool maybe now someone can make a WW2 scenario of the whole earth :) instead of just Europe or Asia.
I cant make one because as much as i`d like to i dont have the time and suck at making scenarios. :(

Rhye, it will be confusing for all the settlers to have the same name.
Instead be creative:
Anicent Settler -> Settler
Medieval Settler -> Pilgrim
Modern Settler -> Pioneer

blasphemous -> what about "colonist"? However it could be good all settlers too, because when you get one settler, the other one is obsolete. It's the same unit "upgraded".

jalapeno -> no, I'm speaking about the Middle Ages tech tree. It's a substitution of a tech and moving back another

posted update v2.49

- Updated hills, plateaus and plains forests graphics
- "Ancient Settler" renamed "Settler"; Medieval Settler renamed "Settler "; "Modern Settler" renamed "Settler ". The space won't be seen ingame
- "Ancient Cavalry" renamed "Heavy Horseman"; "Medieval Infantry" renamed "Man-at-Arms"; "Flintlock Infantry" renamed "Fusilier". That's because nobody at that time call them in that way
- Halved cultural victory limits (10k, 50k) as they were unreachable
- Population and terrain limits for Domination victory reduced to 51%
- Clean wetlands now really allowed
- Tuned Incan, Roman, Egyptian, Arabian and Sumerian strength
- Update civilopedia with the new names

Awesome changes in 2.49

In your proposed changes you mentioned moving Grenzers to nationalism. I think they should remain at whichever tech will give flintlocks since that is what they replace.

Every change about tech tree and Grenzers will be X-pack only.
The grenzers period is Napoleonic, and they were more similar ro riflemen than fusiliers. If I'm not wrong they had percussion cap rifles and they were melee units.
In the Xpack I'll decide to make them available with Flintock Musket tech or Nationalism

blasphemous -> what about "colonist"? However it could be good all settlers too, because when you get one settler, the other one is obsolete. It's the same unit "upgraded".
Still it's better if the units have seperate names since that's less confusing and makes it more clear what unit is in question.
"Colonist" really is a better name for the Mod. Set.

I can't believe.....321 visitors today in the mod site!!!!
Where do they come from????

what changes were done to Incan, Roman, Egyptian, Arabian and Sumerian?

Rhye, your homepage still shows the old 2.48 Random map for download. But you have already uploaded 2.49, i just typed the correct link with 249 instead of 248.

Besides that, I think your mod is great and has been realized even better. :goodjob:

Since 2.48 something is strange with Germany. Every game I have played since 2.48 they are a runaway power. Beginning in the Middle Ages they somehow accumulate thousands of gold and midway thru the era their bank is a constant 6000+ sometimes as high as 10,000+. I'm not sure what has caused it but it causes a few problems late in the game. Namely, they have seemingly unlimited money to buy alliances and embargoes and they can constantly steal techs.

Longasc -> thanks for the info

smellymummy -> Roman are less strong in industrial and modern; Arabia is stronger from Feudalism; Incas have a whale closer to the coast and so reachable; Egypt and Sumeria have one more shield in the territory where they usually build their 2nd city

horton -> very strange. Are they so overpowered? You could send me a savegame - I'd like to see if they're overpopulated or it is something else

The site is now updated in the alternative downloads page.

BTW, I notice that the number of bad marks in the pool are increasing, expecially about the rules and the additions. I hope that after the Xpack some people who'd like additions will be satisfied

Rhye in your readme file you have it say place this in Conquest\Scenarios it should read Conquest\Conquest folder. Thats where mods are suppose to be placed.

Thanks

tacfun

Rhye in your readme file you have it say place this in Conquest\Scenarios it should read Conquest\Conquest folder. Thats where mods are suppose to be placed.

Thanks

tacfun

Mods are actually supposed to go in the Conquests\Scenarios folder. The Conquests\Conquests folder is for the 9 default conquests (shogun, WWII, napoleonic, etc.) that came with C3C.

EDIT:
The site is now updated in the alternative downloads page.

Um, actually I still find that the links are pointing to 2.48 versions, but manually changing it works fine.

Too True. :)

the links are working. Try to delete your temporary internet files

I tried it with v2.48 and now with v2.49 but Winzip won't let me open it! :( Can somone help me?

I just got a guide to the Germans. He rated the Germans 4 out of 5


sliverknight-> which is the zip that's not working? the patch? I just checked and everything seems allright...
oh wait, you were the one who found problems with 2.46 (and I put a RAR for that reason), right? If you need a rar I'll upload it.

WOW...Well I've been placing them in Conquest folder and they run great..lol...silly me!

tacfun

Hi Rhye. I decided to come over here so I could be a little closer to the main Civ3 modding community.

I hope to see my Germans guide up soon. If you want to up the Germans rating to 4.5/5, I think you can. The civs most deserving of high ratings are Rome, China, Russia, Germany, and France IMO.

Welcome to CivFanatics, Jaguar :)
I just updated the site with your guide

Thanks.

I probably won't be able to write another guide for a couple of weeks because I'm going on vacation, but I'll try to take a stab at the French, Americans, or Babylonians sometime in the future.

I tried it with v2.48 and now with v2.49 but Winzip won't let me open it! :( Can somone help me?
Your probleme is very easy to FIX and for good... download and install WINRAR ( http://www.rarreg.com/rar/wrar330.exe ) and you should be OK for any file with *.ZIP or *.RAR extension.

Maybe your winrar version is outdated... make sure you have winrar 3.30.

At 22:00 the site had more than 500 daily visitors...never happened something like this (there are usually 50-60)

I've been messing around with the two Mesopotamian civs. Are they really meant to be that pathetic? There is no way of getting reasonable production...

In the upcoming "expansion pack" version, I think you should consider changing one of the Mesopotamian civs to something else. They are both weak Agricultural civs with early UUs in the same overcrowded area.

There are a number of worthy civs that could take the place of Sumer or Babylon. In East Asia, the Siamese or Khmer could be added. In the Middle East, Israel could be good, especially if religion has more importance in the mod. R8FXT made an excellent David animated and era-specific leaderhead. In Africa, you could add any of the great West-African civs. (the Mali come to mind) You might not want to do that because it would discourage the colonization of Western Africa, which is key for the European civs.

Any of those civs would be good. But without a doubt, the civ I think most needs to be included in the mod is Poland. Firstly and most importantly, it fills the map out very nicely. Germany and Russia are both given a lot of expansion room in Eastern Europe, even though they are both already extremely powerful. It also gives Russia a closer neighbor to think about. Secondly, there are excellent leaderhead and UU graphics for Poland. Thirdly, it would be great to have a true Slavic civ in the game. (Russia is more of a mix of Slavic and Varangian culture.)

Rhye,

Since I have been back and playing your latest mod 2.48 & 2.49 I must say Im very impressed about how you have them building like ancient history. If we could just get the dam Persians from building pyramid and the Egyptians building them faster..lol!

Anyways..way to go on all the hard work.

tacfun

tacfun-> I know, the mod has improved constantly. Do you remember how 2.0 was?

jaguar->don't worry, I've already decided what civ will be removed and what civ will be included ;)

Care to give us a hint? ;)

IMO Sumer should go rather than Babylon if you want to take out a Mesopotamian civ. Mostly because the Sumerians were done for by 1600 BC or so, well before the majority of the civs in your mod came into being.

Bring in the New Zealanders!!!! :) I think that would be cooler.

Ya, I remember 2.0 and how much fun I had!

tacfun

You guys are real pros! I gotta hand it to you, I couldn't get better customer service from my own friends if I begged them! I just downloaded WinRar, which would have been my NEXT question (it looks like our reputation preceded us! -- Civ 2 diplo quote)! Since it takes roughly two hours with my sucky modem to attempt to download anything this size, I'll start it right before I go to bed and let you know how it worked in the morning! Again, thanks a bunch! I can't WAIT to play this mod! :goodjob:

SilverKnight :cool:

P.S. Yes, I would like the .RAR version of v2.49 please and thank you!
:worship: :worship: :thanx: :worship: :worship:

silverknight -> winrar should open zips. Try. If you stil have problems, let me know, I'll uploaded the rar

tacfun-> sometimes I look at 2.0: it's incredible how many bugs there were and how many things added with the patches were missing

the new civ:
well, you (jaguar) mentioned both the new civ and the civ to be replaced. So, it's not new zealand.
Another hint? I'm waiting for a unit for that civ which is being made

I'm gonna take a guess that Israel will be the new civ. It's the only civ I mentioned that is conspicuously missing a UU.

For those who doesn't know - R8FTX just posted NAPOLEON!!!!

This is a must have.

Now the question: how many of you can afford a mandatory heavy download?
I'm unsure if:
-including it in the main mod (which would increase its size from 12MB to 32MB) with a 2.5 patch,
-or wait the expansion pack (not before september) which already is many MBs
-make an Expansion pack #1 with Napoleon and perhaps Justinian and call the Xpack I'm preparing Expansion pack #2. In this way the basic version will still be 12MB. This is not my favourite solution, as I would have to update 3 versions in case of a small fix :angry:

I'm gonna take a guess that Israel will be the new civ. It's the only civ I mentioned that is conspicuously missing a UU.
I agree cause Jesus was from Jerusalem and Jerusalem is in Israel. Our calendar is base on this guy ;) I think it's a important part of our world and religion.

I'd like too see a Pacific or South Asian civ if one gets added. Something a little more exotic that will fill up some empty space on the map. Israel or Poland are interesting suggestions but their parts of the world are pretty full atm.

I'm writing an Arab guide tonight. Their tuning in 2.49 really helped them.

for a moment forget the added civ...I need some feedback about today news.
I've written above the three choices about Napoleon.
BTW, I've found a perfect King unit!

for a moment forget the added civ...I need some feedback about today news.
I've written above the three choices about Napoleon.
BTW, I've found a perfect King unit!
Where is the preview of Napoleon ? Curious to see what someone did after what i did. Maybe this time you guys will be more flexible about that.

It's here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96503

I'm sorry for the time you spent in trying to make it.
But you see...if you don't complete it and post it...the effort is gone.

It's here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96503

I'm sorry for the time you spent in trying to make it.
But you see...if you don't complete it and post it...the effort is gone.
Some complain about the nose and i decide to stop trying to make you guys happy by losing lot and lot of time on the nose (almost a week). My napoleon is done since a while and i'm using it since a couple week already.

If i compare this one to mine, i must say that mine is better quality but this one look more like napoleon. Like i told you, i don't have any solution to upload it somewhere, don't have FTP, don't have enough space on my website so i just abandon the idea, i don't wanna pay for that. I'm glad someone find a solution, but not sure if i will use it cause i actually really like my napoleon.

For those who doesn't know - R8FTX just posted NAPOLEON!!!!

This is a must have.

Now the question: how many of you can afford a mandatory heavy download?
I'm unsure if:
-including it in the main mod (which would increase its size from 12MB to 32MB) with a 2.5 patch,
-or wait the expansion pack (not before september) which already is many MBs
-make an Expansion pack #1 with Napoleon and perhaps Justinian and call the Xpack I'm preparing Expansion pack #2. In this way the basic version will still be 12MB. This is not my favourite solution, as I would have to update 3 versions in case of a small fix :angry:
I can afford a heavy download. Cable internet is great! :worship:

My napoleon is done since a while and i'm using it since a couple week already.

Era-specific?

Era-specific?
Yes i have done all the era-specific. Maybe some could be better but the main one is well done. The only one that i don't like is the first of all, but for the time i can see it, it doesn't really matter to me.

I didn't know that you made all the eras. Why did you keep it secret? ;)
Please show some previews!

I have decided what to do with the downloads.
Napoleon will be in the basic mod (mandatory). But in future I will not delete the 2.4 to 2.5 patch and the 2.49 version, so that one with a 56k modem can make the v2.5 downloading 2 separate files (and then patch again in case of future patches)
And I'd like to see Ibcoltscrew's Napoleon...never say never ;)

I can afford heavy download too :D

I'm hoping the new civ isn't Poland or Israel, as has already been said, there just isn't enough space for them.

I don't mind one huge download. Long live ADSL!

I agree cause Jesus was from Jerusalem and Jerusalem is in Israel. Our calendar is base on this guy ;) I think it's a important part of our world and religion.

This is probably a good reason to stick to talking about Rhye's mod and not politics or religion. This just cracks me up! :crazyeye: Iboltscrew, you're a Christian right? Never heard of Bethlehem (or at a stretch Nazareth) nor Sosigenes or the Julian Calendar? :lol:

I'm hoping the new civ isn't Poland or Israel, as has already been said, there just isn't enough space for them.

This just cracks me up! :crazyeye: Iboltscrew, you're a Christian right? Never heard of Bethlehem (or at a stretch Nazareth) nor Sosigenes or the Julian Calendar? :lol:
I'm nothing buddy, i don't have faith at all, i'm scientist and i only believe in myself. I strongly think i'm the only one woh really exist in this world. You guys are only in my head like everything else. Don't suppose something about me, you don't know me like i don't know you and it's better this way. I was saying that because the game is base on my calendar and my calendar is base on Jesus Christ.
There is nothing stupid about adding Israel even if i really don't like this country and this religion.

I would enjoy being able to invade isreal.
I say add em!

I'm hoping the new civ isn't Poland or Israel, as has already been said, there just isn't enough space for them.

There is plenty of space for Poland. Look at the screenshot. They easily have more space than any other European civ (except Russia.)

I have received a complaint: Civilopedia shows "Upgrades to" even with the unit is obsolete only and not upgradeable. So I'd change "Upgrades to" to a more generic "Obsolete with". Is the term "obsolete with Battleship" correct? Or is it "obsolete after Battleship"? Or "Rendered obsolete by Battleship" (maybe too long)

Rhye, could you tell me the Link for that Napoleon Leader Unit?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96503


Can you tell me the correct sentence in English?

I have a solution for all! Add Poland which I agree with. We need them to enjoy wiping them out...IE GERMAN SMILES!...Remove sameria use them as Poland and give Babylon a starting extra city where Jerusalem is. Babylon Conquered Jersulem and it would make much sence and Im a christian...(Wish I was a better one or Im just not sure what a christian is anymore!)

Im going to maybe mode this myself for anyone who is interested.

tacfun

No Rhye.... I already have the Leaderhead, I'm asking for the Unit. You Posted it one or two pages back.

oh, it's the Dutch 18c Officer by Steph. You should find it in one of his collections.

Again, can anybody tell me the correct sentence?

I have received a complaint: Civilopedia shows "Upgrades to" even with the unit is obsolete only and not upgradeable. So I'd change "Upgrades to" to a more generic "Obsolete with". Is the term "obsolete with Battleship" correct? Or is it "obsolete after Battleship"? Or "Rendered obsolete by Battleship" (maybe too long)

Try this on Monarch or harder level and tell me what you think. You can play on whatever level you like but I made it for Monarch level.

1. I gave some civs a bit of a head start.
2. I removed America
3. Babylon has Jerusalem
4. Greece has Sparta
5. Egypt has Cario
6. Ottomons have Troy
7. Russia has Warsaw

Don't worry I have tried to balance them so the civs with extra cities don't have settlers or workers at beginning. trying to make it work out a little more like history and give a more ancient feel. I put Cario instead of Memphis and Giza for later game play reasons. There are othere small changes too.

Please place the file where you placed the 2.49 Version and enjoy!!

tacfun :king:

Readme updated on this and next page of changes!!

File above was compressed as a .rar file and renamed as a .zip file if anyone has problems opening it!

tacfun

I have received a complaint: Civilopedia shows "Upgrades to" even with the unit is obsolete only and not upgradeable. So I'd change "Upgrades to" to a more generic "Obsolete with". Is the term "obsolete with Battleship" correct? Or is it "obsolete after Battleship"? Or "Rendered obsolete by Battleship" (maybe too long)
"Obsolete with" works, but isn't the greatest. I think "rendered obsolete by" makes the most sense.

I agree. "rendered obsolete by" is the best.

Yay! :goodjob: Thanks everyone! I just downloaded it, it seems to be working fine! Give me 24 hours to report back a poll vote!

SilverKnight :cool:
Elated! :D :D :D

P.S. Oh yeah, I agree with "rendered obsolete by." It sounds more elegant!

There is plenty of space for Poland. Look at the screenshot. They easily have more space than any other European civ (except Russia.)
There is also a lot of marsh and unsettleable (by the AI) forest between Berlin and Moscow. Most games see Germany and Austria with only three contiguous towns in traditional German and Austrian territory. Another civ starting in-between Russia, Austria and Germany would probably limit Germany, Austria and Poland to only one or two starting towns. I don't think that would make for very strong opponents. Just my 2 euro cents.

Actually they will start to battle or they tend to start to send settlers over towards China area...LOL...Really hate them when they do that!

On another note... Ive been testing my mod enchancement and its working really well. Wonders are being built almost 100% by the right Civs... Not perfect but alot more fun and like Greece took out Troy ..lol! Other cool things happened in game too.

Im also working on version 1.01 and its basically some city name changes and removing goody huts from the game. City name changes will do the following as they computer settles cities it will be placing names closer to historic or now-a-days cities. I think this is fun for when we enter modern times.(Not perfect but alot better!) Removing the goody huts will help will some civs getting an unfair advantage and I feel goody huts are unbalancing the game.

tacfun

Rhye...Could you possibly think of removing Goody-Huts from 2.50 or atleast have 1 version without them. I do believe the game plays better.

tacfun

Ok... Up above a couple of post I have updated to version 1.01 and this should be it. Unless I see a major game play tweak that needs being done.

Enjoy!!

tacfun

PS. I believe I have gotten all Goody-Huts off the map. I spent at least an hour takening them off.

tacfun, be prepared to update your version to 2.50 soon :p

a proposal for a change:

instead of leaving the hussar alone in its upgrade path
(now the cavalry paths are:
horseman->knight->cavalry(->)tank->mod.armor
hussar(->)tank->modern armor
with (->)=not upgradeable)

I'd instead divide light cavalry from heavy:
horseman->hussar(->)tank->mod.armor
anc. cavalry (now called heavy horseman)->knight->cavalry(->)tank->mod.armor

2. I removed America

I'm about to try your version and i would like to know if you have change america for cherokee or simply remove them from the game ?

Taking horseman out of the usual upgrade path will be a major blow to civs with knight or cavalry based UU. To a civ like the arabs or mongols who have low production potential in their territory, having to build expensive units from scratch could be crippling.

Maybe Hussar could become 6/3/1 with blitz and cavalry could be removed altogether. As it is now, the hussar is a good flavor unit but doesn't add a whole lot. Blitz is nice but with only 5 ATK you won't find a lot of opportunities to actually blitz because by the time you can build hussar the AI will have muskets and fusiliers. I tend to use them only for overrunning crippled civs who are still defending with pikes so I can fish for leaders.

very simple...I could move the keshik and the ansar warrior in the upgrade path horseman-to-hussat

Then they can't upgrade to cavalry and you wind up with tons of 4 ATK UU units sitting around being obsolete. Chinese Rider will have the same situation and Russia and Ottomans will have to build their cavalry UU's from scratch.

I like the idea of Hussar being in the upgrade path somewhere because I think they are a cool unit but breaking up the regular upgrade path will cause problems for the horse based UU civs

Russia and Ottomans would begin from Knights, not from scratch.
Chinese can afford the problem I think
You said that Hussar was a little useless, right?
Otherwise I could remove the grenzer and give the hussar back to Austria...

....anc. cavalry (now called heavy horseman)->knight->cavalry(->)tank->mod.armor

I wouldn't want to see ancient cavalry upgradeable at all. This will give the owner of the Statue of Zeus a HUGE advantage. Also, isn't it a bit odd that you need Elephants to build this Wonder? Surely horses would make more sense, or swap the ancient cavalry for Elephant archers.

I quite like the Hussar as a stop-gap until cavalry arrive.

SoZ was made of Ivory and Gold IIRC ;)

SoZ was made of Ivory and Gold IIRC ;)

Really? Well I'll be....

Thanks. Learn something every day!

I like the hussar being available to all civs because it adds variety. I don't want to see the unit removed or limited to 1 civ. Is it possible to add it to the regular upgrade chain after knights but before cavalry? That way people can have the choice to upgrade their horseman/knights to whichever unit they prefer. You'd be able to upgrade hussar to cavalry if you wanted to but could still keep your knights around unti Nat'l and go straight to cavalry. Just a suggestion.

Not being able to upgrade horsemen to riders wouldn't cripple the Chinese but it would reduce the fun of playing that civ quite a bit. Part of the appeal of a later UU is the ability to plan ahead for it and stockpile early units for a mass upgrade.

If we're addressing horse units, I think we should also consider ways of making chariots more useful. Nobody ever uses them except to upgrade.


BTW, I'm going on vacation for a week and a half. I hope 2.50 is out when I get back. :)

I could put Riders together with Keshik and Ansar Warrior, between horseman and hussar. Instead Russians would have to stock Knights instead of Horsemen.
And reduce the SoZ production (until gunwpoder instead of metallurgy).

Upgrading hussars to cavalry imho is both inaccurate (hussars and mounted riflemen coexisted) and not always useful (because you lose the blitz ability). But that's only my opinion.


The problem is caused by the fact that there are two similar units next to each other (and that could be worse if Cavalry was in Military Tradition)
So, before releasing this patch I can:

1)leave everything as it is, with nothing upgrading to hussars
2)remove the hussar (give it only to Austria)
3)make all the changes I said, (2 paths, one for light and one for heavy cavalry, with the knight-based UU moved to the "light" path). And reduced the Statue of Zeus life.
4)Insert hussars into the main chain, with the problems said above.


Solving this problem is important for me because the Xpack will have several changes to the unit upgrades.

Of those 3 options I guess I would choose #2 but I'd let ancient cavalry upgrade to cavalry and not shorten the life of the SoZ. You tend to use up those ancient cav when you have them and I have rarely had more than a handful survive to the industrial age so the upgrade won't be overpowered.

You guys need to try my mod 1.01 its a blast and my game is unfolding just like history. Europe is on an even playing field. Romans are on the march and look as they are going to teach Austria a lesson. Removing America was a great idea!

Rhye I would do option #2 and don't keep cjanging things. LESS=MORE!

tacfun

OK. I'll keep a light cavalry unit for the Expansion pack only.
So, what stats for the Austrian Hussar?
what about 6/3/2 all terrain as roads?

Ok goto my mod post and download version 1.02! I updated city name placement for Japan and tweaked Rome and France a bit. The mod plays out very well and alot of fun. Get some nice empire builds and wars if you like.

tacfun

Mod posted on page 69....

Ok goto my mod post and download version 1.02! I updated city name placement for Japan and tweaked Rome and France a bit. The mod plays out very well and alot of fun. Get some nice empire builds and wars if you like.

tacfun

Mod posted on page 69....
I really like your version and i think too it was a great idea to remove america. Have you ever think to replace America with Cherokee and make them weak like Iroquois. Like that, europeen civilization could conquer the america, kill the Cherokee and become the USA like it was.

I don't think the light cavalry line in the regular game is a bad idea as long as knight UU's are included in an upgrade path.

If you do change hussar I don't think all moves as road is a good idea. That would make austria able to strike almost anywhere in europe every turn. I'd rather not see the hussar changed to a UU though, I like it as a flavor unit.

You chose #2 right? (to remove the Hussar and give it only to Austria).
The possible stats are 7/3/3, 6/3/3 +ignore forests, 6/5/3, 7/2/3 (perhaps the best), 6/2/3 -cost.

The expansion pack for now includes more than 30 units, and some new concepts. I would leave the heavy changes to the expansion pack, and restore the original settings (included the rifleman and berserk path) for the basic.
If the hussar causes problems which cause heavy changes, other than only being a "favour" unit, then it's better to leave it optional.

Ok goto my mod post and download version 1.02! I updated city name placement for Japan and tweaked Rome and France a bit. The mod plays out very well and alot of fun. Get some nice empire builds and wars if you like.

tacfun

Mod posted on page 69....

what did you change to Rome and France?

I never change your rules or map! What I did was redo some names of city placement order. I also added a worker and a warror for Rome. I gave France 2 settlers instead of 1. This will help them expand better. I handicapped them a bit when I removed the goody-huts this should help.

You can import the map from my mod its your map just no Goody-huts!!

tacfun

OK, I see. It's player data. Tomorrow I'll post the v2.50, you'll have to update :p

Is there a region with too many goody huts in your opinion?

I like the goody huts how they are, there aren't too many and barbarians patrol close by most of them so they aren't too easy to get.

I don't want the hussar to be austria only, maybe I misunderstood the options.

I'm testing out the new 10k cultural victory in my latest game, I think it is reachable now.

I'm sorry, it's too late, I've spent 3 hours in updating everything with the new settings :(
The hussar was useless / caused too many problems as it was, but don't worry, the grenzer will be back soon together with many other things. It will be much more well done. Now I ask you a thing...can you tell me what I have to write in the Austrian guide when you speak of the grenzers? That lines must be replaced.

This is the definitive list of 2.50. Tomorrow I'll update the readme.doc, the random map and the 500 turns, and then post everything


- Added R8XFT's Napoleon leaderhead. Once for all, we got rid of Joan of Arc!
- Updated French scienfic leaders
- Updated the French entries in the civilopedia
- Added Steph's Dutch 18C Officer unit. It looks exactly like Napoleon: it will be the new French king unit
- Updated Fusilier civilopedia pictures
- Replaced some forests with pine forests in Eastern Europe
- Man-at-Arms renamed Man-At-Arms. Updated civilopedia
- Removed Grenzer; Austrian UU now the Hussar (new stats: 7/2/3)
- Cavalry and Cossacks moved back to Military Tradition. Sipahi stats back to original.
- Rifleman back into the infantry upgrade path. Now Man-At-Arms upgrade to Guerrilla, as in the standard rules
- Cavalry path leads to NONE, as in the standard rules. No more "obsolete but not upgradeable" because older units could instead bypass and upgrade (even if cavalry couldn't upgrade to tank, a knight could!)
- Camel Warrior, Elephant Archer and War Elephant upgrade to Cavalry
- Frigate upgrades to Destroyer
- Free Artistry now has Printing Press as prerequisite. Updated the science advisor pcx
- Babylonians traits back to standard (Rel/Sci). Updated civilopedia
- Removed one goody hut in China
- Corrected some rivers in Alaska, Poland and Siberia

The problem with Goody Huts is that they spawn tech and stuff to fast. The game plays just fine without them.

tacfun

....
- Removed Grenzer; Austrian UU now the Hussar (new stats: 7/2/3)

Oh no! Don't remove the Hussar! :sad: I would have voted for #3 but you're too fast!

- Man-at-Arms renamed Man-At-Arms. Updated civilopedia


Well thats interesting and new.

I like most of the 2.50 changes. A few I don't though.

The man-at-arms to rifleman upgrade is something I really liked and I'd prefer to not have it changed. Having rifleman in the normal spears-pike etc path makes the life of fusiliers too short and you end up having medieval man at arms units around far into the industrial age. Having a 4/6/1 rifleman unit that the AI will use as an attacker makes the game a lot more interesting. Please consider changing that back.

Also, I don't get why the goody huts were removed. If people want to create their own variant of the mod and remove them, that's fine but I don't see how a few huts unbalance the mod in any way. If you play as one of the low powered civs, getting a reward from a hut can really make a difference.

I will try out the new Austrians and update the guide within a few days. I have an arab guide to send too.

I didn't remove the goody huts - I only removed one goody hut in China.
OK I'll put the riflemen back to their place, but it will require some time (I was uploading now, I aborted)

I like most of the 2.50 changes. A few I don't though.

The man-at-arms to rifleman upgrade is something I really liked and I'd prefer to not have it changed. Having rifleman in the normal spears-pike etc path makes the life of fusiliers too short and you end up having medieval man at arms units around far into the industrial age. Having a 4/6/1 rifleman unit that the AI will use as an attacker makes the game a lot more interesting. Please consider changing that back.

Also, I don't get why the goody huts were removed. If people want to create their own variant of the mod and remove them, that's fine but I don't see how a few huts unbalance the mod in any way. If you play as one of the low powered civs, getting a reward from a hut can really make a difference.

I'd like to second these points. Goody huts were fine as was the old upgrade path.

- Camel Warrior, Elephant Archer and War Elephant upgrade to Cavalry

Don't understand or like this change either.

I'd like to second these points. Goody huts were fine as was the old upgrade path.



Don't understand or like this change either.

That's because the "obsolete but not upgradeable" hides a trick.
The cavalry hadn't the upgrade flag, but only was obsolete with tanks. Knights instead had that flag. Result=you can upgrade knights to tanks, but not cavalry.
This forced me to go back to the standard settings (cavalry upgrades to NONE), and to be coherent I added the link frigate-destroyer (as there already is galleon-transport) and camels/elephants->cavalry.

horton-> you don't need to rewrite the whole austrian paragraph. Just tell me what I have to change about the UU

I got a 3.2 Ghz P4 with 2 Gb RAM and 256 Mb graphics card...

...so I'm prepared for any size map!

Suckers!

Posted v2.50:

- Added R8XFT's Napoleon leaderhead. Once for all, we got rid of Joan of Arc!
- Updated French scienfic leaders
- Updated the French entries in the civilopedia
- Added Steph's Dutch 18C Officer unit. It looks exactly like Napoleon: it will be the new French king unit
- Updated Fusilier civilopedia pictures
- Replaced some forests with pine forests in Eastern Europe
- Man-at-Arms renamed Man-At-Arms. Updated civilopedia
- Removed Grenzer; Austrian UU now the Hussar (new stats: 7/2/3)
- Cavalry and Cossacks moved back to Military Tradition. Sipahi stats back to original.
- Cavalry path leads to NONE, as in the standard rules. No more "obsolete but not upgradeable" because older units could instead bypass and upgrade (even if cavalry couldn't upgrade to tank, a knight could!)
- Camel Warrior, Elephant Archer and War Elephant upgrade to Cavalry
- Frigate and Privateer upgrade to Destroyer
- Free Artistry now has Printing Press as prerequisite. Updated the science advisor pcx
- Babylonians traits back to standard (Rel/Sci). Updated civilopedia
- Removed one goody hut in China
- Corrected some rivers in Alaska, Poland and Siberia

Patch is looking good. I like the elephants and camels being able to upgrade. I like building those units but hated that they went obsolete so fast.

That's because the "obsolete but not upgradeable" hides a trick.
The cavalry hadn't the upgrade flag, but only was obsolete with tanks. Knights instead had that flag. Result=you can upgrade knights to tanks, but not cavalry.
This forced me to go back to the standard settings (cavalry upgrades to NONE), and to be coherent I added the link frigate-destroyer (as there already is galleon-transport) and camels/elephants->cavalry.

Good point. Now I just need to waste a few more hours of my life trying out 2.5 :D :goodjob:

Are rifle men fixed in 2.50? What I mean did you keep them the same or change them. iM CONFUSED?

tacfun

I kept the same as 2.49.
btw, the link to your mod doesn't work

Rhye, i dont know if it's what you wanted, but i start a game with america and found that the Barbarian were Cavalry... WTF. Did you make it like that or is this simply an big mistake. Actually, it's very hard to deal against Cavalry with Warrior in america. i will try to fix it myself untill you give news about that.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOO!
that' s because I deleted some units. They shifted.

I've fixed all the versions. I'm uploading them now. Please download again in 30 minutes.

My mod has been taken down. I will see about doing a new one on 2.50.

tacfun

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOO!
that' s because I deleted some units. They shifted.
lol i see it was a mistake... i was trying to deal with it but 5 warrior wasn't still enough to kill a barbarian camp with Cavalry :eek: LOL. Kind of funny, maybe you could make a EXTREMHARD difficulty mod like that LOL joking.

I will wait the next update before starting a new game. I hope it's gonna be tonight :)

My mod has been taken down. I will see about doing a new one on 2.50.

tacfun
If you remake your mod, maybe you could take a look at the http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78487
Native american mod to replace america with Cherokee and make them weak just to make thing more realist cause discovering america without any sign of life sound weird to me. Like the Iroquois, they are Barbarian civilized (no prob about that, that's what they still are today). With the Cherokee, the game could become very interessting and accurate. If you do that, just make sure they are weak like barbarian/iroquois.

This sounds awesome! Since I'm getting conquerors today i shall try this mod tonight, hopefully!

I left the files uploading before going out. Now that I'm back I see that it's all OK.

Native american mod to replace america with Cherokee and make them weak just to make thing more realist cause discovering america without any sign of life sound weird to me.

Yes, that's a good idea for an alternative version.
You know, most of the people wouldn't agree in removing America, but it's still an interesting variation if it is well done. There should be a leaderhead in the graphics forums

I got a 3.2 Ghz P4 with 2 Gb RAM and 256 Mb graphics card...

...so I'm prepared for any size map!

Suckers!


This mod is the fastest, irrespective of the speed of the computer.

:rolleyes: I couldn't care less of what computer you have.

For those who dowloaded the patch 2.50 before tonight (the non-fixed version, with the Cavalry as barbarians) you can fix it just with this file instead of downloading again the patch of 21MB.
Unzip the biq in its proper location.

Remember that I updated my alternative versions, too (but that are small downloads)

Rhye... There is a MAJOR BUG!!!

Please read...Just joking...got ya! But I do have a question what is the difference between your mod and the 500turn version besides it being 500turns? What will I get out of playing the 500turn version vs the original download??

tacfun..sry bout joke..heh

hehehe your joke was succesful. For a moment I feared to have to fix&upload again!

The game is 400 turns long after 2.45 if I'm not wrong. The timleine is shorter, and the tech costs are lower to fit the timeline. And the loading times in industrial and modern are much less.
The 500 turns version was made because bjorn said that with the 400 turns America was often discovered too late by AI, and that he had a fast computer so he could afford the old timeline. So I decided to keep it as an alternative ver.

What to use is your choice

I finally played this mod (two days straight, no sleep, no food) and I am disgusted! ;) Normally, the loading times of normal games or TETurkhan allow me time to sort out my life, count backwards from 10,000, or make lunch for my family and neigbors, but NO, not with your fast, awesomely balanced and fun-to-play mod! ;) ;) I loved it so much I actually decided to forgo the boredom of dusting my room (again) and enjoy playing your mod for hours! I hope your happy! ;) ;) ;)

Seriously, great work! :goodjob: I hope you don't mind accepting praise- and it is praise :crazyeye: - on page 72!

Right now, I'm Spain on Chieftain (just to test it out, I'm thinking England on Regent for my next game!), and have total control of Western Europe from the Iberian Peninsula to Italy, Gemany, and Austria (or where they would be ITRW). Thanks again, Rhye!

SilverKnight :cool:
Grateful and humble

Rhye, may be ibcoltscrew is right...I have found the Cavalry barbarians are fun to kill...
Would you mind keeping this as addtional version?

Rhye, may be ibcoltscrew is right...I have found the Cavalry barbarians are fun to kill...
Would you mind keeping this as addtional version?

are you serious? Well, in that case instead of cavalry, raising the barbarian warrior (which is different from the standard warrior) stats will be enough.

hello Silverknight, and thanks for the joke "I am disgusted" ;)
I'm happy you liked it, and I recommend you to play it with harder difficulty levels.
The mod is considered easier than the standard game if you take a strong giv, and it is more difficult than the standard only if you take a crippled civ. However this mod supports difficulty levels from Regent to Demigod. Chieftain, Warlord, Deity and Sid are not supported. That means that in easier levels the game may be unbalanced and the discoveries may be too slow compared to historical events, and that in harder levels the tech pace is too fast, and the loading times raise.
(this is written in the readme!)

It's your choice, but I wouldn't play with Chieftain level. Dominating most of Europe means that most of fun has gone.

Which Version does work with vanilla 1.29?

Which Version does work with vanilla 1.29?

:sad: I'm sorry, this mod is for Conquests only.
There is an old version in another thread which works with vanilla, but it is completely outdated.
But I'm working on a conversion of this mod to vanilla. It will be ready during september.

are you serious? Well, in that case instead of cavalry, raising the barbarian warrior (which is different from the standard warrior) stats will be enough.
I'm always getting frustrated by barbarian... i think it's less frustrated being beat by a cavalry then a Warrior... that's the only positive side of having Cavalry instead of warrior for the barbarian. An alternative version could be interesting.

:goodjob: e bravo il labronico!!!

MAGARI SE TU RIUSCISSSI A PREPARARE QUALCHE SCENARIO CON STO SPETTACOLARE MOD!!! BOIA DE'!
MI SON ROTTO CHE SE VOGLIO GIOCà DEGLI SCENARI ACCURATI E COMPLESSI... DA UN TURNO ALL ALTRO POSSO LEGGERMI TUTTO IL SIGNORE DEGLI ANELLI!

:lol: me lo dissero già qualche tempo fa, di mettere io le città.
Ora però ho in programma altre cose per il momento (l'espansione, guarda il sito), ma mai dire mai.

Una curiosità, hai la versione inglese vero? (su quella italiana i mod non ci vanno)

Altra curiosità: di dove sei?

Rhye, do you mind if I suggest some unit changes, possibly for the expansion pack?

Your suggestions are welcome.

Awright.

First off, a couple of the Unique Units bother me. Some are too weak, some are too historically inaccurate, some are both.

1. The Keshik
First of all, the Mongols were a plains civilization. They didn't live in the mountains, and in general they avoided the mountains when they conquered. It makes no sense for the Keshik to have the mountain crossing ability.

So I thought about this. It seems to me that this would work better for the Keshik: 4(2).2.2 50 shields, requires Horses, defensive only bombard. This setup does two things: it makes the Keshik much more numerous, creating a truly Mongolian horde, and it weakens the Keshik's ability to keep those cities that they conquer.

Secondly, the Keshiks were horse archers! When I looked through the Unit Library yesterday, I saw a good Horse Archer animation there. I think it was on page five... Either way, I think that animation would work much better than the current one.

2. The F-15

The more I think about it, the less I like the F-15. First of all, it never really dominated the world - although they never fought, IF the F-15 was better than the Russian MIGs, it wasn't by much. Second of all, they only fought in two wars, the Persian Gulf wars, and they didn't make the difference in those wars, they were simply the icing on the cake. And third of all, gameplay wise, they are useless.

And so I thought about the possible replacements. Minutemen didn't cut it either, and everyone has Marines. However, another airplane seemed to stand out: the B-29 Superfortress. In it's time period, it was truly the biggest, baddest bomber, and without it our victory in the Pacific would really be in jeapordy. It made a big difference in the Korean War, too, and is still in use today - it's just that good.

It also makes sense in gameplay. I think most every Civ player you can think of would agree that Bombers are more useful than Fighters. Maybe give them 16 bombardment as opposed to the standard 12. You can also find some good sprites of them in the Unit Library.

3. The Immortals

The more I hear about these folk, the less I like them. It's true, they were spearmen, and it's true, there were 10,000 of them, but the thing is, they existed for approximately ten years, and they consisted of less than 5% of the Persian army, and they got their asses kicked by the Greeks. Hardly a Unique Unit.

I went looking for a replacement, and I found what probably caused the developers to use the Immortals in the first place - the fact that the Persian army was quite nondescript. The only thing I could glean off of Google was that the Persian army was fairly horsemen reliant, although this was off of Warhammer sites, not actual history, and so could be quite inaccurate anyways.

One thing that I did find was that the Persians were very good at organizing their troops, relaying signals, using standards, etc. compared to others in their time period. While interesting, this doesn't have much bearing in the actual game. Mayhaps you could give them a well-dressed Swordsman replacement that has an extra defense point to emulate their quick response, or maybe have a Swordsman replacement that costs less (20 shields preferrably) to show that they could organize and raise a larger army than others at the time. Either way, it's not very definitive, and I can't say I'm comfortable with any of the options.

Next thing: Early Naval Units

I really think that there needs to be more diversity with those early naval units. Having nothing but Galleys for a quarter of the game is just boring. My suggestion is to add a pair of units - the Trireme and the Galleass. The Trireme would be available with Map Making, 30 Shields, 2.1.3, no transport. The Galleass would be available with Gunpowder, 40 shields, 3.2.4, no transport. Of course, this would cause one to need to adjust all of the naval units attack and defense scores, so I went ahead and did this for you:

Curragh (1/1/Coast)
Galley (1/1/Coast)
Trireme (2/1/Coast) No bombard
Dromon (3/2/Coast) Replaces Trireme
Galleass (3/2/Coast) No bombard
Caravel (1/3/Sea)
Frigate (4/3/Ocean)
Privateer (4/2/Ocean)
Galleon (2/3/Ocean)
Man-O-War (6/4/Ocean) Replaces Frigate
Ironclad (8/8/Ocean)
Destroyer (14/10/Ocean)
Cruiser (17/12/Ocean)
Aegis Cruiser (17/13/Ocean)
Battleship (20/15/Ocean)

Final thing: A couple nitpicks.

Could you make Swordsmen upgrade to Berserkers? I realise that you would have to create a new Warrior and Swordsman unit for the Vikings, but it really screws some things up for the Vikings if they're stuck with Swordsmen which they can't upgrade to Men-At-Arms.

You might want to give the War Elephant two extra hitpoints as opposed to one, mainly because your mod devalues hitpoints.

I really agree with the changes you made with the Hussar recently. While it would be great to have a more indepth transition between the Medieval and Industrial Ages, the only way to allow for this would be to shift all of the Industrial and Modern units' stats up some to give you some play room. As of right now, I still think that units like the Crusader and Berserker are too powerful when compared to the early Gunpowder units, and while adding more early gunpowder units would be very nice to do, there simply isn't enough room in the unit stats to let that happen.

One thing you might want to do, though, since you really don't like the distance between Man-At-Arms and Guerilla would be to add a sort of offensive pikeman with Military Tradition. Maybe 4.3.1, 40 shields, considering how often Pikemen were still used as cannon fodder in that era. It would certainly fit in the "poor man's army" chain you describe. Mayhaps you could make it 3.3.1 instead, that might fit better.

Great,great and great!!!

Very Nice I loved it. Quick and beautiful.

I have not suggestions:-(

Have you put any screeshots cause i cant find them ,if you have (73 pages!).

Khift, man at arms upgrades to 4/6/1 rifleman now, this is a great fix to the huge gap between man at arms and guerilla.

You make some good suggestions though. I think Rhye is going to introduce a bunch of new units in an expansion pack, maybe some of your ideas can be incorporated.

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing the Americans come out in favor of the Cherokee like Ibcoltscrew suggested.

here are some screenshots.
they should be in the site, but habee hasn't made up the page

http://rhyesciv.uw.hu/screenshots/s_conquista.jpg
http://rhyesciv.uw.hu/screenshots/s_england.jpg
http://rhyesciv.uw.hu/screenshots/s_germans.jpg
http://rhyesciv.uw.hu/screenshots/s_europe.jpg
http://rhyesciv.uw.hu/screenshots/s_japan.jpg
http://rhyesciv.uw.hu/screenshots/s_replay.jpg
http://rhyesciv.uw.hu/screenshots/minimap1600.jpg

khift->
lot's of things to say.

Let's begin with what IMO can be in a patch of the main mod:

-the keshik cost could be 50. The ignore mountains cost ability must remain because mountains include plateaus...
-the +2hp for the elephants sounds good
-the berserks must be back into the upgrade chain, you're right

I'm quite sure that these changes will be in the 2.51

Then, the rest:


One thing you might want to do, though, since you really don't like the distance between Man-At-Arms and Guerilla would be to add a sort of offensive pikeman with Military Tradition. Maybe 4.3.1, 40 shields, considering how often Pikemen were still used as cannon fodder in that era. It would certainly fit in the "poor man's army" chain you describe. Mayhaps you could make it 3.3.1 instead, that might fit better.

yes, I'm planning an extra weak/no resources unit for late middle ages. I posted a unit request for a partisan, an early (Napoleonic era) guerrilla. It could be 4/4/1. But that place is good for a late pikeman, too. There are some around, it shouldn't be a problem.
In that case, the problem would be: should the riflemen go back to the main path, or remain in the "guerrillas"?



While it would be great to have a more indepth transition between the Medieval and Industrial Ages, the only way to allow for this would be to shift all of the Industrial and Modern units' stats up some to give you some play room. As of right now, I still think that units like the Crusader and Berserker are too powerful when compared to the early Gunpowder units, and while adding more early gunpowder units would be very nice to do, there simply isn't enough room in the unit stats to let that happen.

It's already in my plans. From musketman to rifleman (including cavalry) a +1 (sometimes +2) attack and defense.



2. The F-15
The more I think about it, the less I like the F-15. First of all, it never really dominated the world - although they never fought, IF the F-15 was better than the Russian MIGs, it wasn't by much. Second of all, they only fought in two wars, the Persian Gulf wars, and they didn't make the difference in those wars, they were simply the icing on the cake. And third of all, gameplay wise, they are useless.
And so I thought about the possible replacements. Minutemen didn't cut it either, and everyone has Marines. However, another airplane seemed to stand out: the B-29 Superfortress. In it's time period, it was truly the biggest, baddest bomber, and without it our victory in the Pacific would really be in jeapordy. It made a big difference in the Korean War, too, and is still in use today - it's just that good.
It also makes sense in gameplay. I think most every Civ player you can think of would agree that Bombers are more useful than Fighters. Maybe give them 16 bombardment as opposed to the standard 12. You can also find some good sprites of them in the Unit Library.

Sounds good.
The B-29 (or the B-17) are probably more useful. But this must be debated



the Keshiks were horse archers! When I looked through the Unit Library yesterday, I saw a good Horse Archer animation there. I think it was on page five... Either way, I think that animation would work much better than the current one.

3. The Immortals
I went looking for a replacement, and I found what probably caused the developers to use the Immortals in the first place - the fact that the Persian army was quite nondescript.
Mayhaps you could give them a well-dressed Swordsman replacement that has an extra defense point to emulate their quick response, or maybe have a Swordsman replacement that costs less (20 shields preferrably) to show that they could organize and raise a larger army than others at the time. Either way, it's not very definitive, and I can't say I'm comfortable with any of the options.

Next thing: Early Naval Units
I really think that there needs to be more diversity with those early naval units. Having nothing but Galleys for a quarter of the game is just boring. My suggestion is to add a pair of units - the Trireme and the Galleass. The Trireme would be available with Map Making, 30 Shields, 2.1.3, no transport.



OK I'll unveil my plans.
I won't need to replace immortals or keshiks, or add a trireme.
The Xpack will include a second UU for each civ.
And the trireme is the greek one. :) And the mongols have the horse archer (mangudai). And the persians have the frightening war wagons.

But please, don't ask which are the other UUs. I don't want other mods to take too much inspiration, at least before the Xpack is released.
I don't need suggestion for them, (unless I ask) because I've already decided what they all 31 will be.



The Galleass would be available with Gunpowder, 40 shields, 3.2.4, no transport. Of course, this would cause one to need to adjust all of the naval units attack and defense scores, so I went ahead and did this for you:


The galleass could be in, because the Dutch 2nd UU is the Cog, and it could replace the galleass...



oh, about the cherokees. Well, a good idea for an alternative version, but finding 2 UUs will be very hard.

[QUOTE=Khift]Awright.

First off, a couple of the Unique Units bother me. Some are too weak, some are too historically inaccurate, some are both.

1. The Keshik
First of all, the Mongols were a plains civilization. They didn't live in the mountains, and in general they avoided the mountains when they conquered. It makes no sense for the Keshik to have the mountain crossing ability.

So I thought about this. It seems to me that this would work better for the Keshik: 4(2).2.2 50 shields, requires Horses, defensive only bombard. This setup does two things: it makes the Keshik much more numerous, creating a truly Mongolian horde, and it weakens the Keshik's ability to keep those cities that they conquer.

For the record,on April6-9 1241 AD the Mongol army forced the alps covering 270 miles in under 3 days in the snow,and were still strong enough to crush the army of King Bela of Hungary on April 12th...this one example is an excellent reason for their ignore movement penalty on mountains.

Also the USA B-19 and B-17 both are not and have not for many years been in service. You may be referring to the B-52. The F-15 is a veteran of much action in the middle east, albeit usually flown by the IDF. The ratio of air-to-air kills for/against is also heavily in the F-15 favor in its history,which also included air-to-air victories over top-line MiG-29 a/c
And it seems unusual that anyone would take out the USA as a civilization,especially one where there is expectations of reaching the modern era,while leaving in civilizations much out of their prime even by the time the US was born... overall however,I must say, great mod to a great game guys.
Ron

@Rhye: I installed version 2.50 and it is working fine. Thanks, it looks great so far.

Id love to see another native American civ in the mix instead of the USA, like the Cherokee (though theres obviously several other good tribes like the Apache). About the 2 UU's - I cant actually think of 2 at the moment :) but how does a Raiding Party sound? - something to reflect the guerilla type warfare the Indian tribes had to resort to to do any damage to the europeans. Perhaps such a Raiding Party could not be very good in combat itself but have say a zone of control and damage buildings (bombard) when attacking towns. Just some ideas, might be a tad silly but Ive thought about it for just 2 minutes :)

In any case a Native American civ just looks better than having the USA there amonsgt the Aztecs and Iriquois.

Your mod is really impressive and I really like the constant updates and the tweakings based on the suggestion of the members of the forum :)
Did you plan to include a modern infantry foot unit in the expansion?
As a side note usually I change the rules to allow draft only for TOW Infantry in modern times because I consider the Mech Infantry a vehicle (it's a Bradley after all) and the conscription imho is more suitable for the creation of foot units.
Also the AI tend to use draft too much during a war and the Mech Infantry can be used as an offensive unit, so in many games it tends to use them instead of tanks and modern armor.
That's all, keep up the good work :)

Thanks, I'll consider this change for the mech infantry.
In the expansion there is no modern infantry planned.

Ci vediamo a Livorno-Fiorentina tanto riperdete!

Oh wow Rhye...
All these additions sound awesome... Can't wait to get a chance to play your mod again.
BTW, about the obsolete-wtih-no-upgrade problem, isn't the problem non-existant in regard to units like the elephant and camel which are alone in their line? After all, there's no earlier unit to skip the obsoletion (war elephant can be its own line, no need for upgrade from elephant archer).
*Sits and waits impatiently for news of the Xpack*

Yes the problem doesn't exist for camels (instead for the elephants exists unless you remove the link from the elephant archer to the was elephant), but they would be the only units to become obsolete but not upgradeable. So, as dismounting a camel and mounting an horse sounds realistic, the upgrade is the simplest way.


About the Xpack, I think you will be happy to know that I'm using the revision you did - defensive archers and so all the adaptings. The inconsistences in middle ages seem solved.

Holy schmagiggle! Do you mind telling me (privately if you must) how exactly you switched around the middle ages for that?
As you know, I got stuck there in my attempt at the rehaul, so I'm very very curious to find out.
About the camels and elephants, I really see no reason for them to be upgradable, adn the game engine limits can be easily removed by giving the three units (elephant archer, war elephant, camel archer) their own one-unit line that gets obsoleted by cavalry. I don't think it is good that people can stock up on these units and then upgrade them to advanced cavalry. These units should be obsolete as they were in reality.
But it really isn't such a major issue. =P

Well, the ancient archer is 1/2/1 and upgrades to the medieval archer. It gets 1/3/1 and is available with feudalism. Then it upgrades to the musketman.
The 2/2/1 spearman upgrades to a 3/3/1 pikeman that requires iron, available with chivalry. (could even be a 4/3/1). The all-round infantry for who has iron.
Instead, the medieval infantry is gone. There are the pikemen in their role. Instead, a cheap (and no iron) infantry (3/2/1, with feudalism) that's the upgrade of the swordsman (3/1/1, iron). That path then upgrades to an early form of guerrilla, then to guerrilla.

Writing this sounds complicated, but I can assure that a drawing may better explain. It's quite balanced now and the early rush is gone.

I just received a mail - the random map 2.50 crashes when starting the biq. I'll try to find what's the cause

How are you dealing with the costs for ancient to medieval units and for UUs in that era?
Are the UUs gonna finally get proper realistic stats? (Offensive hoplites, expensive but devastating legions, immortals with extra HP rather than lower cost [since their numbers never diminished for long - while they lasted], etc.)

yes the costs will have some tweaks, that will be discussed here because I'm not sure of everything. And the same with the UU stats. However the legions will be an upgrade of the swordsmen (3/1/1), so I think that 3/3/1 and +10 cost will be ok. 4/3/1 would be too unbalancing.

I've downloaded this and had a couple of games, as the Ethiopeans and the French.

My initial reactions are positive. I like the terrain the Ethiopean team colour. There's a couple of units in there (Elephant Archer and Shifta) I'd not seen before and it seems an interesting mod, and I'd say quite a challenge to someone like me - an intermediate player.

I noticed in the graphics folders Wonder splashes for the Magna Carta and Bayeux Tapestry, but in-game I didn't see these in the civilopedia. Did you put them into the game itself? I checked the civilopedia because I was interested in what effects they might have.

The only change I've made in my version is to put in my Moshoeshoe leaderhead as Menelik I of Ethiopia ;) .

Thanks :goodjob: !

I just received a mail - the random map 2.50 crashes when starting the biq. I'll try to find what's the cause

Curious, it work fine with me :)

I love this Napoleon ! Joan of Arc is definitively ridiculous :goodjob:

yes the costs will have some tweaks, that will be discussed here because I'm not sure of everything. And the same with the UU stats. However the legions will be an upgrade of the swordsmen (3/1/1), so I think that 3/3/1 and +10 cost will be ok. 4/3/1 would be too unbalancing.
4/2/1 may be better imho...
Anyway, what about Immortals and Hoplites? Hoplites need to be able to defeat Immortals when the Hoplites are the attackers since that's what happened in reality.

R8XFT->Bayeux and Magna Charta are used for Holy War and the Constitution. As you see, the additions are very few (less as possible), as the quantity is not the purpose of this mod. But with the expansion pack, there will be quantity, too.
BTW there's Zawditu (sp?) for Ethiopia, made by sween32, but it is again a female in its wrong place, like Theodora. So I chose to represent Menilek with the Hatti king, as you can hardly tell the difference, and as it wasn't used (The Hittites aren't in the mod).
I'd like to include Justinian in the Xpack, but only if you fix the backgrounds :p If you need some I can try to find.

Lachlan->so it works for you...strange, I can't find the reason

blasphemous->about the legions, we'll see...it is a reasonable alternative.
By the way, the Immortals were the attackers, and the Hoplites the defenders!

I really don't know that much about it, but I recall a few history buffs saying that hoplites were only special in having their an especially effective offensive tactic that they used eventually to eradicate the Immortals for good.

what war are you talking about?
if it is the greek-persian, it is obvious that the persians were the attackers.
If it is Alexander's campaign, the greek were the attackers, but with the Macedonian Plalanx, not the hoplites

Fixed the random map. The problem was inside the resources section, but the reason of the crash remains unknown.

what war are you talking about?
if it is the greek-persian, it is obvious that the persians were the attackers.
If it is Alexander's campaign, the greek were the attackers, but with the Macedonian Plalanx, not the hoplites
I dunno really... As I said, I was speaking on second-hand info... Do what you feel is right, you haven't failed us so far. ;)

OK.
What do you th