I consider all the previous versions of the WH mod good enough to stand alone, so I think of it as playing a finished mod, not testing a beta :goodjob:

So I can test? Sweet! What do I do now? Wait for the linky-thingy?

@Stormrage

Ok, that's a clear distinction.

Now you'll wait. I don't know how long it'll take for me to go through that list of things to do before beta (I think it's fair to call it an early beta, not alpha after I'm done with the list). I don't have much time these days, mostly in the evenings, but I'll do it bit by bit.

I'd say it'll take a week, but hopefully not more than two.

Cool, right about then my gf is going on a buissines trip for a week, so I`ll test the crap out of this! :D

Later, Drift dude!

I'd like to volunteer to betatest this. :)

Excellent, that's three names already.

Now I'm starting to feel the pressure of being able to deliver with the mod. Both in the sense that I can finish it and also that it's good stuff. :)

We belive in you :)

One piece of advice (from me to you =:wow::lol:), don`t go overboard with teh units, the more you have, the less time we spend playing with them, due to upgrades. Or we end up with crapmed build ques..

@Stormrage

Don't worry. I'm a firm believer in streamlined unit systems and extensive upgrade lines. Everything except for few silly exceptions upgrades and all the upgrade lines go all the way to the top portions of the tech tree. This was one of the fundamental differences between the modding styles of myself and embryodead. I happily upgrade a centaur to harpy if I view it necessary, but ED maintained that upgrades should be plausible (i.e. a spear orc can upgrade to sword orc but a minotaur can't upgrade into a treeman). I'm not sure how much of this has been maintained under mrtn's iron fist though.

There is one big exception to this rule of easy upgrades - the summoned units. You can't upgrade them as it just isn't technically possible, but on the other hand, they are so much stronger than regular units that it takes a while before the regular units catch up with even the weakest summons.

Sometimes there could actually be more units than there currently is. Well, at least for the player who would appreciate intricately varied unit system. The poor computer wouldn't utilize it though.

Mrtn follows the same rule :)

:woohoo:

This is awesome news. No pressure Drift. Let us help you make some balancing decisions.

This mod is even better than I hoped! The only problem I have with it is that I do not understand the civilopedia. For example, I instinctively understand what an aqueduct is, and how to use it. However, I do not even know what the equivalent is in this game. You might consider uploading a strategy book. Please...with sugar on top?

This mod is even better than I hoped! The only problem I have with it is that I do not understand the civilopedia. For example, I instinctively understand what an aqueduct is, and how to use it. However, I do not even know what the equivalent is in this game. You might consider uploading a strategy book. Please...with sugar on top?

Thank you.

The probability of me making a strategy guide are a bit slim, but I could make a quick "what is what" list. Especially as majority of the improvements have Civ3 equals.

Aqueducts are Enchanted Springs
Hospitals are Sewers
Courthouses are Gallows
Police Stations are Courthouses
Libraries are Wizards' Guilds
Universitities are Sages' Guilds
Banks are Traders' Guilds
Factories are Monoliths
Factory # 2 is Obelisk

There are more, but I can't remember all off the top of my head.

Actually, the strategy guide / manual thing is a possibility in the long run. It would be nice to have a sort of introduction/reference document to the mod.

@Stormrage

Don't worry. I'm a firm believer in streamlined unit systems and extensive upgrade lines. Everything except for few silly exceptions upgrades and all the upgrade lines go all the way to the top portions of the tech tree. This was one of the fundamental differences between the modding styles of myself and embryodead. I happily upgrade a centaur to harpy if I view it necessary, but ED maintained that upgrades should be plausible (i.e. a spear orc can upgrade to sword orc but a minotaur can't upgrade into a treeman). I'm not sure how much of this has been maintained under mrtn's iron fist though.Iron Fist? :lol:
I got ED to mellow on this point, as you might know, most greenskins in the WHM upgrades, i e snotling=>orc and goblin=> orc. But, there's also the fact that WH has so much shorter unit lines, most civs only have two defenders.
Having everything upgrade to dragons wouldn't fit the warhammer world, though.

There is one big exception to this rule of easy upgrades - the summoned units. You can't upgrade them as it just isn't technically possible, but on the other hand, they are so much stronger than regular units that it takes a while before the regular units catch up with even the weakest summons.
... It is possible to upgrade them to units you can build, so you could make it so that e g the first summoned unit upgrades to the third attacker, or something like that.

Idea: I don't know how you have it with Regicide in MoM, but one idea I got was to give the king units high defensive bombard. This way they can "protect their cities with their spellcasting". :)

Idea: I don't know how you have it with Regicide in MoM, but one idea I got was to give the king units high defensive bombard. This way they can "protect their cities with their spellcasting". :)

Thats a great idea, IMO. :)

It is possible to upgrade them to units you can build, so you could make it so that e g the first summoned unit upgrades to the third attacker, or something like that.

I'm not a fan of merging upgrade chains (even though in this case the summoned units don't form a real upgrade chain). Don't like it and not a single upgrade chain in MoM merges with an another. Also, that wouldn't really be possible as the summoned units and basic units aren't attached to each other. Death mages have all death summons, but the basic units are different with each mage (ratmen, orcs and lizardmen IIRC). At least it would require a very cumbersome

Idea: I don't know how you have it with Regicide in MoM, but one idea I got was to give the king units high defensive bombard. This way they can "protect their cities with their spellcasting". :)

It's a good idea and guess I've toyed with it in the past, but I hate regicide and everything that goes with it. I have a single "Wizard King" unit attached to all civs so that those who want to taint their game experience with regicide ( ;) ) can do so. I also feel that giving the king unit more abilities would require more unique king units and like I said, I don't feel like investing time in enhancing regicide. I can consider adding a simple defensive bombardment though.

I'm not a fan of merging upgrade chains (even though in this case the summoned units don't form a real upgrade chain). Don't like it and not a single upgrade chain in MoM merges with an another. Also, that wouldn't really be possible as the summoned units and basic units aren't attached to each other. Death mages have all death summons, but the basic units are different with each mage (ratmen, orcs and lizardmen IIRC). At least it would require a very cumbersomeActually, it wouldn't be any harder to do than the upgrade paths in Epic, that circle around the UUs.

Actually, it wouldn't be any harder to do than the upgrade paths in Epic, that circle around the UUs.

Yeah, I thought of that immediately after posting. Well, the technical difficulty isn't the reason I'm against it. I just don't want the summoned units upgraded into regular units. It would ruin immersion and the special feel of those units. :)

Well, if you hadn't claimed it was impossible no one would have said anything. :p

Well, if you hadn't claimed it was impossible no one would have said anything. :p

:lol:

Too true.

Thank you.

The probability of me making a strategy guide are a bit slim, but I could make a quick "what is what" list. Especially as majority of the improvements have Civ3 equals.

Aqueducts are Enchanted Springs
Hospitals are Sewers
Courthouses are Gallows
Police Stations are Courthouses
Libraries are Wizards' Guilds
Universitities are Sages' Guilds
Banks are Traders' Guilds
Factories are Monoliths
Factory # 2 is Obelisk

There are more, but I can't remember all off the top of my head.

Actually, the strategy guide / manual thing is a possibility in the long run. It would be nice to have a sort of introduction/reference document to the mod.

That would be great! (Actually, that is what I was hoping for!)

Hey, I wanna try out the MoM mod, but the first post is confusing, all those betas `n stuff... Does that mean its unfinished? I sound like one of the noobs on the WH thread :crazyeye:

I played the hell out of this one so I think Beta means playable and not finished. Are mods ever really finished? ;)

Well, are there any bugs left? If there are no bugs, I consider it finished. New stuff is just new stuff :)

@Stormrage

I don't think it's too confusing if you read it carefully. ;)

MoM 1.0 is finished. I finished it in June 2004 IIRC. MoM 2.0 has been in beta since early 2005 or something like that and it hasn't been officially released as I reworked my plans and started making a more ambitious expansion. The latest public beta is practically finished though and it's the version I definitely recommend at the moment.

First install MoM 1.0
Then MoM 2.0 beta 3
Then latest patch


I've done much of the things I wanted to do before releasing the first closed beta of MoM II, but now I came up with a new idea I want to incorporate. I'm thinking of making Dwarves a full race instead of a strategic one and making Beastmen into a strategic resource. I also contemplated rearranging nature mage units by making their gnolls into a strategic resource and replacing them with new units. I dunno. I may think on it a bit more and leave the decision to later betas.

I don't want to make any promises, but it shouldn't be too long until I can produce the first closed beta version.

Thanks Drift! I`ll DL it right away, so I can play it sober today, and drunk tomorrow. I shall compare the experiences and give a full report :crazyeye:

Plus I get confused because I played clearbeard's version of MoM for a while. :confused: ;)

Screenie time. :)

I'm playing life mage Oberic. My neighbour, the death mage Vlad decided to invade me with tons of lizardmen and a surprisingly large amout of death mage summoned units. The Dreadship has just dropped three skeleton horsemen next to Vallis, another has just beaten my Cleric on mountains near Ultigar and there are some Liches and Skeleton Warriors running around.

I fought against him with my Unicorn Knights, Troll units and my own lizardmen. The battle was long as he kept throwing units at me, but as his pace started to slow down, I took three of his closest cities including his capital. Too bad that the sorcery mage Lo Pan declared war on me so I had to make peace as I started getting orc visitors on my north border.

This screenie also displays the terrain graphics, as you can see, nothing too strange or fancy. I'll fix those white specs of snow in the future.

The play balance has been pretty good. Summoned units have worked really well and like Vlad proved, the AI uses them a lot. Also, as you can see from the histograph screenie, the race is really even. I'm in the lead, but Vlad and Rjak (two death mages!) are doing good as well. Lo Pan, Sss'ra and Merlin are in the middle and Mordja and Raven are doing just ok. That's probably because they are my neighbours and I outexpanded them. There were no nature mages in the game which was a pity.

I'll probably get the closed beta going during this week.

It looks great! I really like the terrain -much better than in MoM - I can`t play that as long as I can play other mods cos of the dark gfx (even with the lighter version!). Looking forward to the beta :)

Looks good enough for us Betas to play now Drift. Very nice so far!

:drool:
I ahve been playing MoM for a long time and a fan, good luck man! :)

I am just wondering --- when is the final version of MoM 2 gonna be released?

I am just wondering --- when is the final version of MoM 2 gonna be released?

Don't hold your breath. :(

I've done absolutely nothing with the mod for the last, dunno, two months? And I seriously doubt that I'll get anything done during summer as I'm doing my master's thesis. Then it's autumn and regular university studies kick in. And all the while my little boy takes increasing amount of my time and energy. He's an adorable little thing, taking his first steps and exploring every square inch of our apartment, but boy does he require watching over. :)

It could well be that the mod will never be finished. I feel my last modding spree was a valiant effort, a last charge of sorts, but I just don't have the time it would take to finish the damn thing. Also, large portion of modding is such tedious business, that I really don't want to fill my spare time with something like that.

Also, the beta spurred so little interest, that there's no 'hungry audience' effect urging me on. Well, it was fun as long as it lasted and maybe I will wrap it up one day, but with the Civ3 mod community slowly fading out, I wonder, where's the point - in making a mod for people to play or in having closure for myself.

Don't hold your breath. :(

I've done absolutely nothing with the mod for the last, dunno, two months? And I seriously doubt that I'll get anything done during summer as I'm doing my master's thesis. Then it's autumn and regular university studies kick in. And all the while my little boy takes increasing amount of my time and energy. He's an adorable little thing, taking his first steps and exploring every square inch of our apartment, but boy does he require watching over. :)

It could well be that the mod will never be finished. I feel my last modding spree was a valiant effort, a last charge of sorts, but I just don't have the time it would take to finish the damn thing. Also, large portion of modding is such tedious business, that I really don't want to fill my spare time with something like that.

Also, the beta spurred so little interest, that there's no 'hungry audience' effect urging me on. Well, it was fun as long as it lasted and maybe I will wrap it up one day, but with the Civ3 mod community slowly fading out, I wonder, where's the point - in making a mod for people to play or in having closure for myself.

Really, man, you gotta keep your eyes on whats important!

@Stormrage

I don't think it's too confusing if you read it carefully. ;)

MoM 1.0 is finished. I finished it in June 2004 IIRC. MoM 2.0 has been in beta since early 2005 or something like that and it hasn't been officially released as I reworked my plans and started making a more ambitious expansion. The latest public beta is practically finished though and it's the version I definitely recommend at the moment.

First install MoM 1.0
Then MoM 2.0 beta 3
Then latest patch


I've done much of the things I wanted to do before releasing the first closed beta of MoM II, but now I came up with a new idea I want to incorporate. I'm thinking of making Dwarves a full race instead of a strategic one and making Beastmen into a strategic resource. I also contemplated rearranging nature mage units by making their gnolls into a strategic resource and replacing them with new units. I dunno. I may think on it a bit more and leave the decision to later betas.

I don't want to make any promises, but it shouldn't be too long until I can produce the first closed beta version.
Read what? I don't see anything to read!!!

is there a comprehensive 1 file latest download of this mod with everything included?

is there a comprehensive 1 file latest download of this mod with everything included?

all the files you need are on the first page of this thread...

oh and btw....this mod fuk!n rox!!!!:goodjob:

by far the best mod ive played from these forums....oh and is there a custom map??? like a map of myrror or something like that? that's the only thing i feel that is missing

There isn't a custom map and I won't be making one. Sorry.

In other news, I'm wrapping the mod up into a final release after a couple of months hiatus from modding. I hope to have it finished during the next couple of weeks. Whether the Fall of Arcanus play mode will be available is still in question. It probably won't be included in the same download with the finished 2.0 but it could be available as a separate download. I don't have much time or energy to create new stuff so mostly I'll be just tying up loose ends and polishing things here and there.

:thumbsup:
Yep, don't fix what ain't broken :)

It's also good to hear from you, Drift. How's the fatherhood in general?

How's the fatherhood in general?

Really fun, but it can get a bit tiresome every now and then. You don't get much in the way of free time. During daytime he sleeps roughly 1,5-2 hours during two naps. In the evening he falls a sleep at 8-9 o'clock so that's when we have most free time.

He's just shy of 11 months old now and has just learned to walk on his own. Now he's zooming around our apartment grabbing everything he can get his little hands on. No words yet, but lots of noise. :)

Oh, and as pinktilapia has made it public that RFRE will be included (as a link) in the new Take Two release, I guess I can also announce that at least at the moment MoM is going to be part of that same release as well. There was no request to keep a lid on the information, but I didn't feel like being the first one to announce it. :) I'd hazard a guess that this release will feature majority of the most popular modpacks for Civ3.

This is also the reason why I've decided to wrap up the mod into a final release. I've got an almost finished 2.0 lying around on my hard drive so it's not too much work to turn it into a finished mod.

Great news! Can you give us some more info? I wonder if they contacted mrtn, aaglo or Mr.Do? :hmm:

What's take two?

http://ir.take2games.com/index.cfm

Google is your friend ;)

PS - its been a while since you released an ork. Are you feeling OK?

Absolutely fantastic mod. I've been playing nonstop and even have gone to work late because of it, hehe. But, I do have a question, more of a general question pertaining to all mods, regarding incorporting outside mp3s within the mod. Is this possible? I'd like to put in some eerie organ music (since I'm playing Tauron) instead of the cheery default music that came with Civ. Does anyone know if this is possible and if so, how do I go about doing it?

I usually just have winamp playing in the background. :)

Ah... but that's takin' the easy way out ;)

Wow, I wish I could run Winamp and Civ at the same time :sad:

You can't? :wow: I could with my old computer, 450 MHz. Start winamp before you start civ, otherwise you can get choppy sound.
Also, with that computer I had some problems with Winamp 3, so if the new winamp 5 don't work for you, try to get hold of an old version of winamp 2 (I think 2.72 or something was the last version). :)

Wow, I wish I could run Winamp and Civ at the same time :sad:
Even my comp can. But i do get a crap load of virtual memory VERY low errors. It still works. :)

I`ve only got 128 RAM :(

I`ve only got 128 RAM :(
So do I. (it's the maximum i can add)
When i had Windows 98 installed i had 127 RAMs. The last one got screwed and was corrupting files randomly.

Well, I dunno about you, but when I get a Virtual memory is VERY VERY, DUDE!, VERY low, my computer actually does something about it. It freezes. And then, after a couple of days, it CTDs..

I ran into some computer trouble roughly two weeks ago - corrupted system folder and as I messed something up while fixing it, I've now got a computer where I can access all the files, but the registry is messed up meaning that many of the programs don't work any more. Luckily I have another computer, but all Civ related stuff is on the other one. Also, the real life workload has been pretty heavy these last few weeks so I don't think there's going to be a release in the near future after all.

Maybe I should just repackage the current beta 2.0 into a final release. It's been out now for ages and I haven't got any complaints about its balance, bugs or other stuff.

Yah, mebbe you should do that :)

I guess it's only appropriate that I post my farewell note here, in the thread that has defined my Civ3-existence and is the standing monument to the countless hours I spent with Master of Myrror in one form or another. During the last couple of years, it became more of a love/hate -relationship with the incompleteness of the mod nagging me and pushing me forward, but my real life responsibilities and lack of enthusiasm dragging me back.

However, it was always fun and despite it not being as much fun as it used to be in the beginning, I never lost sight of the fact that Master of Myrror was one heck of an achievement for me. I've never done a project of this magnitude and I will remember Master of Myrror and the whole Civ3 modding experience for the rest of my life. It was great because of you people - knowing that there are people out there who spend hours with my mod and feel the magic that I've tried to weave into the mod.

It was May 2006 when I started this hiatus that ultimately became my retirement from Civ3 modding and community participation. Of course my precense here had already diminished greatly with the birth of my son in September 2005, but after May I've hardly visited CFC. Now I have an another baby on the way (due June 2007) and I have way too many things to do in my life - I couldn't spare even fifteen minutes a day for modding right now.

So, with this, I let go of Master of Myrror for the last time. It's not really fair to say that I never finished it - I did finish it in June 2004 with 1.01, but my ambition kept me going and adding more stuff. Now I leave the whole thing in the state that it is right now - no wrapping up into one download and stuff like that. It should've been done almost two years ago, no point in doing it now with Civ3 modding slowly fading.

I wish each and everyone of you all the best. I enjoyed my time at CFC enormously and I hope our paths cross in the future in one way or another. Cheers!

Goodbye Drift! We`ll miss you :wavey:

Have fun in life, say hi to your kids.

:salute:

It was nice having you around Drift! Do drop by once in a while, without feeling the need to update us on anything more than what's going on with the family. :)

Cheers!

:wavey:

I hear you. It's a shame you must leave us, but what's to be done is to be done, I guess.

Thanks for being a great contribution to the community. :hatsoff:

:salute:

Another Legend leaves the forum due to that fatal, sexually transmitted disease called RL. :sigh:

Thank you for your contribution to the forum. :salute:

Okay. I am slow. What is WINAMP?:rolleyes:

A program that plays mp3s and other music files. Try www.winamp.com

Not sure if he still visits but Thanks again for this great Mod.. your work was and still is very appreciated..:goodjob:

:mad: How DARE you leave out Dwarves!:mad:

Is that a joke?

But in a different light:
http://andjo.free.fr/pics/threadnecro.jpg

no, dwarves are one of the most important of mythical races.

they are the manifestation of the technological extreme of humanity as elves are for traditional and "nature worshipors"(for lack of a better term)

Umm, yeah, resurrecting the thread for this wasn't really necessary.

But have you played the mod? There are dwarves in there and I'd say they are among the strongest race units you can get.

Drift (Still subscribing this thread. :) )

they are the manifestation of the technological extreme of humanity

Aren't they just short, beardy drunkards with an axe fetish?

I am sorry for not seeing them in the mod.
Aren't they just short, beardy drunkards with an axe fetish?
And no they are like that just to show another form of difference from elves to seem more unreal and as if one cannot be both technologicly advanced and good to nature.