I have encountered a very serious problem while using this mod. First, every once in a while a worker will get frozen and the game acts like it is trying to move it but can't. I can still click on the guy and select him (except when it happens twice in the same turn and it bounces back and forth between the two, forcing me to ctrlaltdel). This is really not a problem at all, a simple reload can solve any problems.

But sometimes during the computer's turn it just sits there doing nothing, maybe cuz the same thing is happening to the comps..? This never happened while playing standard civ3 or during my first game of BBW, but after that, many games (every game since) has been ruined because of this. Previous autosaves don't seem to help, as it just seems to prolong the problem.

Any help would be appreciated.

It is a problem with invisible units and there is nothing we can do but make workers see invisible units. the thing is the worker try's to move but if there is a invisible unit then the wroker can't move there but the computher does not no that so it can not go around the invisible unit so it keeps runing in to the invisible unit and since the worker can not attack it just sits there.

Thanks. I guess I'll have to do a little editing then.

BTW is there anyway to salvage my saves so they use the new rules instead of the old ones?

no but you can load you auto save and stop the workers form moving.

I made The Plays of Sophocles wondersplash.pcx . included a source pic.

Hit a couple of bugs:

1. The Hittites (Ag/Ind) can make Scouts and the Persians start with a scout but cannot make them.

2. Civs can start right next to each other. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. It causes some really interesting borders but it can lead to unintended balance issues. When playing a random game I started with 5 AI in view. I planted my town and the 4 that were within its radius never moved so I killed them all off and started the game with 16 slaves and 4 fewer opponents.

Thanks for continuing to update!!!

I think there is a bit of a problem. It seems like civs can destroy themselves
LOL OMFG what a BUGS... hahahaha Unbeleivable... Nice pics !!!

After having played a few games I cannnot decide if it is more advantageous to research pottery or the wheel first. The wheel obviously gives you the option of expanding more immediately, but Pottery gives the now vital Irrigate ability, gives your workers something to do besides building roads everywhere, and allows you to build granary ASAP.

What do the rest of you BBW players think?

Maybe someone said this already but... there is a huge scripting error.

You can't script civ 3 so it can't be a scripting error. It could be a text error do you have a screenshot.

Will there be a PTW version?

(Sorry if this has been asked, I'm not looking through 13 pages)

There is that St Louis Arch error... but it has been corrected in the last version.
What errors are you referring to?

PS: This mod is awesome and my current map has taken me 195h but is now close to an end. I'll post the save game just in the last turn :D

Has anyone heard from DB? There has not been much forum activity as of late, and nothing from him since his move. This is a fantastic Mod, and I was hoping he had more up his sleeve.

Me too. I know he said something a while back about needing time for a move but that he'd be watching the forums. Hopefully he'll have some time in the near future for an update.

you took your new techs from call to power II, is that allowed?

Yes, I'm still around. ;) Between the move and a few other matters, I've gotten sidetracked a bit from Civ III, but I've been keeping an eye on the forum, and will have an update out before the end of the month which will at least address the issues brought up here since the last release.

-- Darryl

Glad to hear from you DB.

"Bigger, Better Worlds" C3C Mod

Settlers now cost 40 shields and three population points, and can't be built until you've researched Expansionism. Similarly, workers now cost 20 shields, and some worker actions (most especially clearing forests and wetlands) take longer. The settlers you start with cannot enter any terrain tiles other than grassland, plains, flood plains and hills, unless following a road. (An upgraded settler unit is available in the medieval age to eliminate that restriction.) Finally, citizens in your cities require three food each, rather than two. These changes were made to slow initial expansion.

With the exception of workers and scouts, none of the units available in the ancient age can move into desert, forest, jungle, mountain, tundra or wetlands tiles. Just as civilizations can be isolated in the early game by virtue of being located on islands, civilizations can now also be isolated by impassible terrain.

I think you BBW is a great mod but the only thing that i don't like is that settlers cost 40 shelds, 3 population points and require expansionism...Why???
Why should settlers cost 40 they were fine with 30 and 3 pops also I dont understand. And why should the civs require expansionism to expand???Civs could expand and bulid cities without researching anything...

Deo, the high rate and the reason for the tech is to slow expansion. I have played at over a dozen games of BBW 2.1, and many things took time to get used to, but it works. It also makes it take longer to engulf the world.

I Played as the Indians. My main opposer were the Japanese.
They didn't research Chivalry and never built Samurai's (they had iron).
Later the other great power Netherlands didn't built cavelery (They had the resources)
What is teh reason of such behavior ?

Never had this problem.

In fact the AI always seems to hand me my behind on a platter with a smile.

Firstly... Yay! My first post! No longer a lurker.

Anyhow, love the mod but have noticed something interesting. I don't mind it and infact it is quite cool: River exploration.

See, I am Celt obsessed so I usually play 60% W continents/Arid/Hot so there are large amounts of desert. Early on I need my workers and have no scouts so trying to expore is a P.I.T.A. until I realized you can travel on wetlands.

Even the computer does it now, exploring the deserts by following the rivers. Also, since settlers can only follow these, all desert cities are on the wetlands (instead of the usual 1 square away to escape disease & provide irr).

This also means that any wars are fought in narrow 'alleyways' making them mad, head on rushes of blood and gore. And it only gets worse if anyone builds trade roads! Cities truley become the centerpeices of strategy and links in the spidery networks. Fast units (celtic swords men, horses, etc) stream in from both sides as slower defensive units try to hold ground, desperately hoping that their side has enough attackers to destroy the opposing stack before the next wave comes. Barricaded citys and well placed fortresses turn any invasion attempt into a mass slaughter of man and beast but should even one fall, the effect can be catastrophic....

I LOVE IT! evil... fea di evil...
I rate this mod [pimp] [pimp] [pimp] [pimp] [pimp] 5/5 pimps.

Keep it comming!!

DB, are you still working on this mod? I've been watching the thread for a while and was disappointed to see it go silent for weeks at a time. You said you would release an update in July. Is that still in the works?
I haven't played yet, since I'm too lazy to wait for a 20 mb download, but it sounds great from what I've read :)

BTW welcome to CFC Yethic and congrats on your first post. :D

Version 2005/07/20:

- Set things right so that the Hittites can no longer build Scouts, but
the Persians can.
- Raised the number of turns needed to complete roads from 6 to 9 and to
complete railroads from 18 to 36.
- Gave the Disney World wonder a significantly higher culture rating (6)
and added tax and luxury output bonuses.
- Improved the Slave Trade small wonder's positive effect to better offset
its rather significant negative effect.
- Increased many wonder and small wonder culture ratings so that all small
wonders have a culture rating of at least 1 and all wonders have a
culture rating of at least 3.
- Moved Coastal Fortress from Metallurgy to Naval Ordnance.
- Reduced (but didn't necessarily eliminate) pollution output from
Manufacturing Plants, Offshore Platforms, Refineries, Research Labs,
Supermarkets and the Great Ironworks.
- Added a research output boost to hospitals.
- Allowed Barbarian Galleys to safely traverse sea squares, making them a
bit more dangerous for a bit longer.
- Moved Berserks (the Viking UU) from Invention to Vassalage.
- Upgraded attack value of Frigates and Privateers from 2 to 4; also gave
Frigates an extra hit point.
- Raised defense value of Spearmen to 2, of Pikemen to 3, and of Musketmen
to 4.
- Lowered cost of Archers to 15.
- The Currency tech now requires Mining as an additional prerequisite.
(After all, it's Mining that allows you to find gold and silver.)
- Renamed "Baffled Bovine Breakdown" as, simply, "Black Plague."

-- Darryl

I said last year that I'd have an update out by the end of July; I just never said *which* July....

:(

All kidding aside, it's been a busy year, and both real life events and a succession of other games (first Thief III, then City of Heroes, and more recently EverQuest II) have kept me away from Civilization III. But my son recently started playing Civ III again, which reminded me that I was long overdue to update BBW.

I haven't added anything new in this release, but have tried to address the various bugs and "anomalous issues" that were brought up after the last release. If there's still any significant interest, I'll see about resuming active development; if there isn't, well, at least the mod should now be in a reasonably good state.

A few of the issues that were discussed last summer, though, have not been specifically addressed.

First, on the matter of workers doubling as scouts for non-Expansionist civs, I ultimately decided that I rather liked things as they are. The advantage that Expansionist civs have is that they can produce a lot of scouting units quickly and cheaply. The fact that other civs have to divert more expensive "generic" workers if they want to explore is, well, appropriate.

Second, I'm not sure what can be done about the problem with the game "freezing" when workers (or presumably any other 0-attack units) try to move into a square occupied by an invisible enemy unit. Obviously, allowing workers to see such units would pretty much defeat the purpose of having invisible units at all. Giving workers an attack rating of 1 would solve the problem, but I'm not sure I really want to go that route. Suggestions are welcome.

Finally, yes, civilizations can self-destruct. I know the "Rampaging Carthaginians destroyed the Carthaginians" sort of message looks a bit odd, but it is *NOT* a bug. As is noted in the BBW documentation, the changes I've made in the mod result in a greater variability in early expansion. Some civs, whether through good luck, good location or good planning, will grow rapidly. Some will stagnate. And some will be unable to sustain even the minimum population required to continue existing at all.

-- Darryl (finally back after a year)

Awesome. You know I am up for some more. I don't have time to build my own mod any more, but I have learned quite a few things about it and have some different ideas, if you would like help furthering your mod :)

Great to see an update DB. I was looking through all of my MOD dl's and was wondering what became of this. Great to bring new life into this great MOD.

Well, it's good to know that there are at least a few folk still around.

I need to find time to browse through all the new units, improvements and such that have been uploaded in the past year. I'm sure there are at least a few great things I can steal. :)

And, of course, any specific suggestions or requests are welcome.

(I don't plan to be here *all* the time -- I'm still playing and modding EQ2, as well as working -- but since Carl and I have both gotten interested in C3C again, I figure I'll be here fairly often.)

-- Darryl

A few points for consideration:

(1) Though I haven't run into the problem myself, the issue of game freezes related to use of invisible units probably should be addressed. Any suggestions?

(2) Until the discovery of Astronomy in the Medieval Age, it is not only dangerous, but flat-out impossible for any ship to enter ocean squares. This was done deliberately, of course, to slow initial exploration and expansion. But I'm wondering if perhaps *a* ship might not ought to be available in the Ancient Age that *could* enter ocean squares. Any thoughts on the possibility and/or suggestions for what such a ship might be?

(3) Forests are currently set impassible to wheeled units, which of course makes them impassible to virtually all units in the Ancient Age. OK, mountains, jungles, deserts; they're all well and good.... But did I perhaps go a bit *too* far in putting forests on the "do not enter" list?

(4) One idea I was playing with last year was the possibility of adding extra abilities based on civilization traits. For example, perhaps Militaristic civs could mobilize from the beginning of the game, or Industrious and/or Agricultural civs could clear wetlands from the beginning? It wouldn't be hard to implement, as I've already got "civ trait" techs to which I've linked the trait-specific small wonders, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or too imbalancing. Any suggestions on what abilities might qualify for this purpose? And should they be automatically available, or should they be linked to completion of the trait-specific small wonders? Or should I just leave things as they are? :)

(4a) Any good/bad feedback on the trait-specific small wonders themselves? I was still pondering and playing with their benefits when I got distracted from C3C modding last year, so I'm not sure they're as balanced yet as they should be....

(5) In my update yesterday, I moved the Coastal Fortress to the Naval Ordnance tech and "buffed up" Frigates and Privateers a bit, in an attempt to make the non-essential Naval Ordnance and Piracy techs a bit more tempting. It has been suggested that Piracy ought to allow building of some sort of "piratey" wonder, perhaps producing Privateers automatically. Any thoughts?

(5a) Right now, Privateers upgrade to Destroyers, merging with one of the main naval unit paths. Would they be better upgrading instead to more modern pirate vessels, as was suggested earlier in this thread, thus retaining their unique abilities?

(6) I really can't see where Cavalry could upgrade; it's pretty much the logical end of the "horsey" line. However, I can see the validity of the complaint that there's too much of a gap between Cavalry and Tanks. Perhaps a "primitive tank" unit of some sort could serve as a precursor to actual Tank units? I don't know offhand of any such units in real-life warfare -- I believe tanks pretty much *did* take over directly from cavalry -- but I'm open to suggestions.

(7) A request was made earlier in this thread for new government types, but I'm not sure I really see any need. I think the eleven governments already available (including Anarchy) pretty much cover in "broad strokes" all the governmental types from history, and in game mechanics terms, there's really not much room for new governments that are different enough from those already included to be worth the bother. I think Oligarchy (which includes in its umbrella such concepts as "tribal councils") is available easily enough that it provides a fairly quick way to get rid of the Despotism tile penalty. But again, input from others is welcome.

If you have any comments, questions or suggestions, please post them! If there are particular techs, units, wonders, improvements or whatever that you think would be worthwhile additions to BBW, speak up! :)

-- Darryl

good to see you back DB, you are one of the most creative people on this board.

Wasn't the invisible thing fixed in the last patch? Not sure, but I haven't had any issues in my mod and haven't heard of this with any other mods lately. Maybe it should be tested again.

some ideas for you

2) The type of navigation we all know about is that based on viewing the stars. However the Polyneasians (sp?) had a way of determining the direction of the boat which only worked by lying in the bottom of the boat and closing your eyes. In the South Pacific there is a particular wave pattern which is constant across a vast area.

With the viking expansion across the North Atlantic there is a wind stream which blows one way and a current which goes the other way with in a few (to an Australian, ie less than 700 miles :) or a days drive) miles of each other.

The question is do you want a civ to have this ability for all its ships from its civ-trait - seafaring? Or is this a new tech? Or maybe a wonder or seafaring civ wonder which produces a special ship every so often?

Pesonally I prefer the last.

As to the type of ship? Some sort of scouting expidition and/or migration canoe with some defense and no attack.

3) I like forrests being impassible to wheeled units.

Other) Sometimes I think you are not making enough of some of the resourses. I like to build stuff in my cities so I came up with a number of improvements which required the hot-springs resource both local and as traded.

Wasn't the invisible thing fixed in the last patch? Not sure, but I haven't had any issues in my mod and haven't heard of this with any other mods lately. Maybe it should be tested again.

Hmm. An interesting question. The last C3C patch came out *before* my big BBW update last spring, and the comments about the invisible unit bug were posted *after* that update, but it's possible that those having the problem hadn't upgraded to C3C 1.22....

I'll have to track down the patch notes from the 1.22 update -- they don't seem to be either in my C3C directory or on the "download patches" page here -- and check.

-- Darryl

And by the way, in completely non-BBW-related news, it's now July 22, so....

Happy Birthday to Me!

I'm 42 years old today. :)

-- Darryl

Happy Birthday, DB. [party] [party]

this mod is awesome...i really like the longer and more in-depth ancient age. the only problem i noticed is that certain civs (in my case greece, england, and france) only built 1 or 2 cities while rome, germany, the celts and I all have huge empires. is there a difficulty setting i should be using to encourage even growth (i'm on regent)?

-- from Sword of Geddon: "Good to see you back DB, you are one of the most creative people on this board."

Thanks, but I'm not nearly so much a "creative" person as I am a person who's good at stealing and combining other creative folk's best ideas. ;)

-- from Dancing Hoskuld: "Or maybe a wonder or seafaring civ wonder which produces a special ship every so often?"

I'm inclined to think perhaps the Seafaring trait-specific small wonder ought to occasionally produce an ocean-capable vessel, until it's made obsolete by Astronomy and the availability of "real" ocean-going ships.

-- still from Dancing Hoskuld: "Sometimes I think you are not making enough of some of the resourses."

I'm open to any suggestions for expanded use of resources. I fully agree that some of them really don't serve much purpose yet.

-- from luxembourg87: "the only problem i noticed is that certain civs... only built 1 or 2 cities while rome, germany, the celts and I all have huge empires."

Starting location, tech development and just plain dumb luck can have a profound effect on how well (or even if) a civilization is able to expand. In the default epic game, AI civs all tend to expand at roughly the same rate. Not so in BBW. :D

-- Darryl

Version 2005/07/22:

- Added wonder: Encyclopedia.
- Prohibited Egyptians and Hittites from building horsemen. (Their chariot
UUs are at least as good, anyway, and now they'll be able to build them
for more than just a few turns.)
- Made Assassins "wheeled" so that the only non-wheeled units available in
the Ancient Age are scouts and workers, as intended. (Granted, assassins
are only available from a wonder, so it wasn't a big deal, but still....)
- Changed Advanced Settler cost from 1 pop and 120 shields to 2 pop and 80
shields. I decided I don't like the idea of any settler only costing
a single population point.
- Increased the shield cost of Colonists from 10 to 120. That *had* to be
a mistake!
- Renamed Warrior Code as Organized Armies.
- Added Organized Armies as a fourth prerequisite to Siegecraft.
- Removed the link between the Furs and Game resources and the tech
formerly known as Warrior Code.
- Linked Pearls to Sailing and Gems to Mining.
- Fixed a few errors in the Civilopedia.

-- Darryl

Great job Darryl!

You have an excellent mod and I hope the Huskers kick ass this year!

(1) I played your mod extensively, and don’t recall ever having this issue.

(2) I think seafaring Civs should be able to build such a boat and risk the open seas.

(3) I have tinkered with this one as well, and ended up making it passable with a very high movement cost. For your mod, I think the way it is works better.

(4) I LOVE this idea. Phoenix mod has techs in all eras based on not only traits, but culture groups and the individual civ itself. You can then make certain buildings, units, and resources unique to any of these things. You can also make trait-specific techs interact with each other or with culture techs (Religious Traits, Asian Culture and Philosophy are the prerequisites for Eastern Philosophy, for example). This type of structure gives you an endless amount of flavor possibilities.
To answer your specific questions – I think you definitely need to go this route. I love making Wonders do this for you, but I wouldn’t object to minor bonuses added right off the bat, with moderate ones available from a wonder and major ones from wonders of advanced specific traits. This CAN make things to imbalancing, but if you are carefull and fair when doling out the bonuses you should be fine.

(4a) The only thing that bugged me was that they were available to build right away – add some prerequisites (tech, building, resource….).

(5) I think it is a great idea. It should give you an economic boost, and maybe decrease happiness too.

(5a) Either that, or do not allow them to upgrade at all, as piracy is mostly gone now adays.

(6) WWI early german tanks?

My Phoenix mod uses some files from BBW (text and pcx files – biq is my own though). I planned on replacing them with my own once I finished reworking the rules, but I never finished or released the mod, so it is still in there. If you want me to upload it for you to look at I will. It is basically an experiment in rules and techs and buildings. Since I will most likely never release Phoenix officially, and BBW is one of the mods that really inspired it, I will let you scavenge whatever you can out of it. The resources are my own private collection – the pcx file has hundreds from all the mods I have worked on (Optimator, Civolution, Godzilla, Phoenix, and Fallout) as well as others I just liked and thought I might use one day. My cat is even there (a digital camera test)… 

Anyways, I don’t want to hijack your thread by posting stuff in it. Let me if you want me to or what. Glad your back bro!

-Amesjustin

First of let me say Thank You for the Modpack. I myself do not posses the knowledge to create something like this. I also enjoy playing to much to other learning. With that said this mod has a lot of promise, but it frustrated me to no end on my first attempt. The thing that irratates me the most is the movement accross mountains, or the lack ther of. I understand the desire to slow the game and expansion down. However, throughout history humans and civilization has moved accross mountains. The Inca are prime examples for workers being able to build roads, they can not according to the game civilepedia. Settlers should also be able to move accross mountains, how else could you explain the Inca or the Indians settling where they did? Military units have done so as well like Hannibal accross the Alps with elephants into Italy. I am not saying return movement back to the way it was in the original game play, but slow it down. Maybe make a unit sit in the mountain tile 3 turns before it can move out. As far as the road building, maybe make it 48 turns to complete a road in mountain tile.

The reason for my frustration is the fact I got stuck on a peninsula with no wood resource to expand by sea, and surrounded by mountains so I could not move out.

The thing that irratates me the most is the movement accross mountains, or the lack ther of. I understand the desire to slow the game and expansion down. However, throughout history humans and civilization has moved accross mountains....

There really isn't any sort of terrain that humans somewhere on earth haven't settled, crossed or built roads through. Any limitations on terrain usage in a C3C mod are going to seem arbitrary or unrealistic to some folk, and probably *are* unrealistic. But a balance has to be struck between realism and gameplay.

I will freely grant that the fact that in BBW, mountains can't be crossed by wheeled units and can't be paved by roadbuilders, isn't entirely realistic. But I feel, as do most others who have commented on the matter, that it adds a valuable strategic element to the game.

I am not saying return movement back to the way it was in the original game play, but slow it down. Maybe make a unit sit in the mountain tile 3 turns before it can move out.

Unfortunately, such is not possible. No matter what the movement cost of a tile, it is impossible to force a unit to take more than a single turn to cross it.

As far as the road building, maybe make it 48 turns to complete a road in mountain tile.

The limitations on mountain terrain actually exist for two reasons. The first, of course, is to help limit early expansion. The second, though, is to maintain some element of terrain-based strategy in warfare in the later game. Allowing road (and thus railroad) building in mountain tiles, even at a slow rate, would defeat that purpose.

The reason for my frustration is the fact I got stuck on a peninsula with no wood resource to expand by sea, and surrounded by mountains so I could not move out.

I can appreciate your frustration; I've found myself in similar situations. (Try starting in a tundra tile with nothing but more tundra tiles as far as the eye can see!)

But curraghs *are* able to transport a single unit at a time, which would allow you to expand (albeit slowly) off of the peninsula by sea.

Of course, the other option when you find yourself in a truly unviable position is just to start a new game. As is noted in the documentation, luck *does* play a significant role in early expansion ability in BBW, and sometimes, well, luck sucks. :D

-- Darryl

My plans for the next upgrade:

(1) Switch the starting techs of Commercial and Scientific civilizations, so that Commercial civs start with Mathematics and Scientific civs start with Writing. That really doesn't make any more inherent sense than the current arrangement, but will facilitate my next change....

(2) Set all trait-specific small wonders to require prerequisite improvements. Four of them already do require buildings available with starting techs; those four will now require that you have at least two cities. The other four small wonders will require prerequisite improvements in only a single city, but which you'll only be able to build once you progress a bit in the tech tree. The commercial small wonder will require that you have a marketplace, and the scientific small wonder will require a library. (Thus the switch in starting techs noted above; it makes these requirements a bit more logical, as they'll be linked to techs that stem from the correct starting techs.) The industrial small wonder will require a smithy. I'm not entirely sure about the expansionist small wonder, since the Wheel doesn't lead to *any* tech that allows you to build an improvement, but I'm thinking that requiring worker housing makes about as much sense as anything.

(I can't link these small wonders to techs because they're already linked to techs. They're just not linked to techs that appear in the tech tree. :D And I don't want them linked to resources, as they're supposed to be available based solely on civ traits. But linking them to prerequisite buildings as described above should take care of the problem -- and I agree it *is* a problem -- of being able to build some of them on Turn One.)

(3) Set all trait-specific small wonders that don't already do so to produce units. (Other benefits may have to be toned down a bit to retain balance.) The seafaring small wonder will produce ocean-capable vessels, with stats and speed most likely between those of a curragh and a galley. The military small wonder will -- big surprise! -- produce fighting units, most likely just warriors. (They can, of course, be upgraded just like any other warriors, so they're not useless. Just free.) I'm not sure about the scientific and commercial wonders, but if all else fails, well, workers are always handy!

(4) Set all trait-specific small wonders to expire with Medieval techs. (The seafaring wonder, for example, will expire with Astronomy, which allows deliberate creation of ocean-capable vessels.) Having them keep churning out units 'til Doomsday just seems a bit ridiculous.

(5) Rename the scientific small wonder, since calling it the "Philosopher's Forum" is a bit problematic if it's built before Philosophy is discovered. :)

(6) Disable the upgrade from privateers to destroyers. Privateers will now be a "dead end," and will fade from usefulness as other naval vessels upgrade into the modern era. Yes, modern piracy exists, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it's aimed mostly at smaller vessels, which aren't represented in the game. In the days of classic piracy, when men such as Blackbeard, Long John Silver and Captain Jack Sparrow ruled the oceans, pirate vessels could attack even naval fighting vessels with something at least vaguely resembling parity. But I doubt any modern pirates have ever seriously contemplated taking on a battleship.

(7) Add a new "primitive" tank -- most likely Ripptide's WWI "1918" tank unit -- available with Combustion, which will upgrade to the currently-available tank, and serve as a bit of a "bridge" between cavalry and tanks.

(8) Disallow settlers from goody huts.

(9) Set Machiavelli's wonder to produce assassins slightly less frequently.

(10) Adjust the expiration tech for Slave Trade. I'm not sure why I set it to expire with Medicine. I need to come up with a more logical choice.

I'm not going to mess with additional trait-linked abilities right now, as I'm undoubtedly going to be opening a huge can of worms when I do. But I'll give the idea some more thought.

I'm also not going to worry about adding a wonder linked to the Piracy tech, though I still think it could be fun.

If you've any comments on any of those plans, speak now before I actually implement them! :D

-- Darryl

Wow. A whole year gone by and now you're going great guns again! The changes you've made and proposed all look good DB. Keep up the good work. Nothing makes playtesting and posting feedback more satisfying than continuous tweaking on the Modder's part. :D

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
(like Doom2 when you get a new gun)

Thx DB [dance]

PS: I played this mod before I got a job (in the best time: in the middle of University and 1st job). Now I don't have as much time, but I'll do it a try.
The only problem is I have no personnal life to ruin because I'm a freshman here and I have a lot to learn and to do. I hope you haven't destroyed my life :p ;)

Again, thx for the updates to a mod I know it is of the best quality and whose biggest problem is the epic scope and the adictiveness.

First mod I'm trying for a long time, usually just we're satisfied with standard with large worlds.

Anyway..

I like some of changes while some I feel needs improving. I'm playing a game on largest map and are almost on modern age already.

I usually play on monarch and it is usually nicely challanging but not too hard for my way of playing, but not with this mod... it was painfully easy. Balansing is hard thing to do, and currently AI is just getting crippled bit too much. I had a fairly good starting location, lot of flat area to expand, and after I took out scandinavians that were my closest opponent I had half of the continent for my self. Everyone else nearby were behind mountain ranges so I basically was uncontested through out most of the game. As you have stated, luck has lot to do with this mod, but it would be good to balanse things that even with very good start the game would stay atleast challanging. At late IA I was still one full age of tech ahead of everyone else, and moving forward in tech faster than anyone else. Propably due to less tech swapping between AI civs as there are only few anymore that can keep up with tech. After little thinking I came few possible solutions that could be tested or atleast evaluated if they would work or not.. I'll play around later and see how it could be balanced bit better.

One idea I had was to tweak out settlers. Making everyone start with 2 settlers but making settlers only avail from expansionism, and eat 3 pop. Also unchecking wheeled from settlers could ease the situation where most AI civs are. Of course it would be hard to say what kind of effect this would have to early expnsion rate, but it picked my interest so I'll do some testing.
Well it somewhat works as is, so perhaps it's better to not change too much, but testing won't hurt.

Mid game anarcy is also now quite deadly, mainly due to food consumption. Long anarchy for a bigger civ without railroads can easily cost half of the population. Makes swapping goverment types quite a pain.

Also I don't know if you intended it, but mayan UU, javelin thrower, is now actually quite good. Not that it would be overpowering, it's basically spearman with enslave ability now.. but did you know that it can be upgraded to pikemen with no additional cost... Might be true with some other spearman UU's too.

I'll post again if I find some nice way to balance AI performance without making it to expand too fast too early. All in all, very nice mod.

Quick idea on 'Slave Trade' expiring... why not when 'Universal Sufferage' is completed???

why can't I get my first capital city any bigger then 2, I kinda can't expand.

Having advance settlers cost two rather than one population means that if you start in an area with only plains then you will not be able to expand until you get Monarchy (I think). Since irrigating plains does not increase the food produced at the start of the game.

One set of improvements I modded into an early version of your mod were based on the hot springs resource. None make a big change to play, I just like building improvements. They were-

spa - requires hot springs in the city radius and no tech. Make one unhappy person content, produce 1 culture, no maintainence cost and cheap to build. Basically a place for young men to impress young women, the definition of culture since it is the women who choose what impresses them.

natural baths - require spa in the city and stone to be available, tech - masonry. Makes one content person happy reduces the chance of disease. Maintance cost 1, costs about as much as a temple. Extends the benifits of the spa to the younger and older people of the city.

luxuary baths - require natural baths and marble to be available, tech - construction. Increases money from tax to represent tourism, one more culture. Cost about the same as aquaduct, maintenance 2 per turn. Expire with sanitation.

I also toyed with a small wonder Bath available with engineering which gave a free sauna to all cities in your civ which had the same effects as the spa and natural baths but did not proceed with it. Expire with sanitation.

so its just the place I picked, not sure because when I Irrigate I still can't have population over 2 but i'll go try that now thanks.

Personally, I never play at higher than Monarch level, and even then, usually get my ass handed to me unless I'm playing at Regent. Suffice it to say I'm better at modding than at playing. :D That's why it's nice to have other folk playtesting my changes.

One idea I had was to tweak out settlers. Making everyone start with 2 settlers but making settlers only avail from expansionism, and eat 3 pop.

A less drastic change might be to "help out" the AI a bit. Right now, AI civs get no bonus worker units until Emperor level, and no bonus settler units until Demigod level. Perhaps if AI civs got their first extra worker at Monarch level, and their first extra settler at Emperor level, they'd fare a bit better.

That having been said, though, I have to admit, I find your specific proposal intriguing. The idea of starting everyone with two settlers, but allowing no one to build any more "right off the bat," has potential....

Also unchecking wheeled from settlers could ease the situation where most AI civs are.

This I'm going to leave as is. Settlers can already get anywhere they need to, so long as they're willing to wait for workers to build roads. :)

Mid game anarcy is also now quite deadly, mainly due to food consumption. Long anarchy for a bigger civ without railroads can easily cost half of the population. Makes swapping goverment types quite a pain.

I seem to recall this point being brought up in the distant past. Unfortunately, though, it's not something I can adjust. It's possible for a mod to alter the maximum number of turns that AI civs will have to endure anarchy at various difficultly levels, but there's no way to adjust it for the human player.

But on this point, I'll conveniently decide to favor realism over playability, anyway. After all, revolutions are not things that should be undertaken lightly. :P

Also I don't know if you intended it, but mayan UU, javelin thrower... can be upgraded to pikemen with no additional cost.

Ack. I'll fix that. The Mayans previously couldn't build pikemen, as the basic stats of the javelin thrower are just as good, anyway. I changed that last week, when it occurred to me that as a Medieval unit, the pikeman *does* have an advantage in that it gets a bonus hit point. But I didn't notice that the units had the same cost when I decided to allow that upgrade.

-- Darryl

Quick idea on 'Slave Trade' expiring... why not when 'Universal Sufferage' is completed???

An improvement or wonder can only be set to expire when a tech is discovered; there's no way to set it to expire when a different wonder is built. (If there were, I'd have the Great Library expire when the Encyclopedia is built, and the Encyclopedia expire when the World-Wide Web is built. It'd make perfect sense, at least to me!)

That being said, having Slave Trade expire with Industrialization, the tech which *allows* Universal Suffrage, probably makes as much sense as anything else that doesn't involve an entirely new tech.

-- Darryl

Having advance settlers cost two rather than one population means that if you start in an area with only plains then you will not be able to expand until you get Monarchy (I think).

Actually, Oligarchy also gets rid of the tile penalty, and is available a bit sooner, requiring only a quick sidestep from the path that leads to Monarchy, anyway.

The whole reason I added the Advanced Settler with a population cost of just one was to address the very problem you're bringing up, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized I just *DON'T* want a one-population settler unit available at all. Even with a high shield cost, it still undermines the whole "slow expansion" thrust of the mod.

Another very interesting idea was suggested earlier this evening, which would (at least indirectly) help this issue. What do you think of the idea of doing away with "cheap" settlers completely, and allowing no settlers to be built before Expansionism is researched, but starting each civ with two settler units instead of just one? That would allow you to found your capital immediately, but also allow you the luxury of looking for a more fertile spot for your second city; either or both could later start producing more settlers, once you've gotten around to researching Expansionism.

One set of improvements I modded into an early version of your mod were based on the hot springs resource....

I like the idea, though for simplicity's sake, I'll probably merge your improvements into a single "spa" improvement.

Did you happen to have graphics handy? :D

-- Darryl

ARGH!

The "two settlers" idea won't fly, without refinement. The only way I can change the number of starting units is to set custom player data as well as custom rules, which would have the unfortunate side effect of "locking" the number of players without regard to the world size. :(

(The rest of this post has been deleted, as the proposals I was making turned out to be impractical.)

-- Darryl

(Post deleted, since the proposal was impractical.)

-- Darryl

I absolutely love what I've seen of this mod, but I've got a problem and I keep getting this error:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/paulbubel/damn.gif

I've downloaded the patch for Conquests. Deleted the mod, re-downloaded the zipped files and reloaded the mod into the Scenarios folder twice and I'm still getting this error.

Any ideas?

I absolutely love what I've seen of this mod, but I've got a problem and I keep getting this error....

Either the BBW scenario file and folder aren't actually in the "Scenarios" folder, where they belong, or the "Middle Ages" conquest file and folder aren't in the "Conquests" folder, where *they* belong....

If everything's present and located correctly, the game shouldn't have any trouble finding the files it needs.

-- Darryl

(Another deleted impractical idea.)

-- Darryl

Thanks DB.

The BBW appears to be in the right place:
CivIII/Scenarios/Bigger, Better Worlds

And the Conquest files appear to be in the right place:
CivIII/Conquests/Conquests/MiddleAges/Art/Units/Spy

Wait, should the BBW be under the Conquests Scenarios or original CivIII scenarios? Could this be my problem?

Thanks for you patience with all of us.

Step 1: Give AI civs the slight boost already mentioned, so that they get their first extra worker at Monarch level and their first extra settler at Emperor level.

This definately would help up AI bit, and it currently needs all help it needs.

Step 2: Eliminate "advanced" settlers, and link regular settlers to Expansionism tech, so that nobody can build new settlers right off the bat.

After bit of thinking, I don't think this is such a good idea after all. With it expansionism would become one of the most important techs in game.. but how can AI know it? With all the years I've played civ3 I've learned that AI tends to research tech in certain pattern. I don't know how versatile AI code is on techs, can it evaluate expansionism important enough to research it fast enough? As I noticed that it dosen't really value pottery enough in this mod.

In my game I encountered egyptians on a mid sized island. They had river, hills and few lakes too and mostly grassland. Fairly good place to expand but stil when I found them... in late MA... they had 2 cities. They definately could expand as they had 2, but why only 2? They we're still on despotism and and they had "terraformed" with bunch of roads and mines, no irrigation even with capitol next to river. I don't really have that much experience with modding to know how well AI can work with modified tech tree. But I can't really get any other solution to why they haven't irrigated. I conquered them and settled that island so I can't check anymore what level of tech they actually had, not too high I think since they were on their own and only with 2 citys.

EDIT:

and 280x280 (32 civs) maps

I thought 255x255 was max size for a map? Yes you can set it that big but it will downgrade to 255 (or 254) when saved. In anycase, maps that big should be played only on least land options. Otherwise max amount of cities cap will be reached fast. (I've done that few times, pissed the hell out of me)

Dumb question DB; where is the version from 7-22-05? Do we need to download the whole thing again or is there a patch?

The BBW appears to be in the right place:
CivIII/Scenarios/Bigger, Better Worlds

That should be:
CivIII/Conquests/Scenarios/Bigger, Better Worlds

:D

-- Darryl

Dumb question DB; where is the version from 7-22-05? Do we need to download the whole thing again or is there a patch?

Yes, just download the whole thing again; as the files aren't really all that big, anyway, I don't bother with "patch" versions.

-- Darryl

I thought 255x255 was max size for a map?

362x362 is the max map size, apparently, and 31 civs is the max number of players.

BUT....

As it turns out, the whole point is moot.

I just can't catch a break on this. :(

I was just doing a bit of playing, and it turns out that by setting custom scenario data, you're not just locking in a certain number of players, you're locking in *8* players. Period. No more.

*Sigh*

-- Darryl

EDIT 2005/08/01: Actually, you *can* (as I should have realized) define the number of players in the scenario; it's just done on a different page than the one I was looking at. :) But as I've gone in a different direction on the whole "early settlers and despotism" issue, anyway, it really doesn't matter much.

I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to myself, but what the hell. :D

OK, looking at things from a different angle....

The problem I'm having is that I'm trying to come up with a way to handle settlers which manages both to accommodate my desire to slow initial expansion, and to work around the fact that the increased food consumption requirements, when added to the despotism tile penalty, prevent some cities from growing much or at all. Unfortunately, those ends are damned near mutually exclusive.

So what if, instead of trying to finagle the settlers, I finagle despotism instead?

If the despotism tile penalty was removed, the problem of cities being stuck at size 2 would no longer exist. But the increased food consumption requirements that already exist would still tend to keep growth slow. As well, if I made workers only 50% rather than 100% efficient under despotism, it would serve both to rebalance despotism as an "undesireable" government in the absence of the tile penalty, and serve as an additional mechanism to keep initial expansion at a reasonable rate.

Comments?

-- Darryl

Sounds doable DB. Your monologue is proceeding nicely. :D

If you can eliminate the AI getting stuck with 1 city until they get conquered and balance your desire for slowed expansion it would be a great deed. The human can always Ctrl-Shift-Q when put in a bad spot. Not that I'd do that......

I think the idea of removing the despotism tile penalty is good. With the increased food consumption the growth is already slow anyway.
The AI seems to research in a pattern, though, and sometimes it gets stuck with a few cities.
Btw, it's a great mod to play. Thanks!

DB,

I moved the files and the mod seems to be running along just nicely. Thanks for the help.

UPDATE

Version 2005/07/31:

- Removed the tile penalty from Despotism, but reduced its worker rate.
- Reduced some tiles' food production just a bit, since there's no longer
a tile penalty to work around in the early game.
- Removed tech prerequisites from some resources and "toned down" most
resource benefits a bit.
- Added units: Early Tank, Ocean Curragh.
- Removed Advanced Settler unit and Expansionism tech from the game.
- Increased Colonist population cost from 4 to 5.
- Decreased Mayan Javelin Thrower shield cost to 25.
- Removed the upgrade path from Privateers to Destoyers. (Piracy is, when
all is said and done, a dead-end career.)
- Added improvement: Baths.
- Revised the trait-specific small wonders, so that all eight of them have
prerequisite city improvements. Also tweaked the effects a bit; most
notably, Great Harbor now produces Ocean Curraghs (OK, yes, the name
sucks), and Military Headquarters produces Warriors.
- Replaced Lenin's Tomb with Soviet War Memorial, since I found a great
war memorial Wonder splash by "Rufus T. Firefly," and hadn't found a
good pic yet of Lenin's tomb....
- Adjusted Machiavelli's Il Principe to produce assassins every 15 turns
instead of than every 10.
- Set Slave Trade to expire with Industrialization rather than Medicine.
- Moved Brothel from Code of Law to Polytheism. (Early prostitution was,
after all, often tied to religious practices.)
- Helped out the AI civs by giving them each their first extra starting
worker at Monarch level rather than Emperor, and their first extra
starting settler at Emperor level rather than Demigod.
- Updated/corrected a few other graphics files and Civilopedia entries.

-- Darryl

Sweet. I didn't get around to the other update so now my procrastination pays off! Yes! :D

Great work DB

OK, here are some comments/questions about yesterday's update and my current plans for BBW.

(For those of you who haven't caught on yet, by the way, these "my plans" posts are, as much as anything, my way of consolidating discussion for my own reference so I don't have to keep reading back through old posts to remind myself what's been suggested.)

First and foremost, let me note that I'm going to wait a bit before actually doing anything further, as some of the changes I made yesterday can have a fairly significant effect on early expansion and development, and I want those of you who are interested to have a chance to play a bit and see what you think of them! :D

(1) On the subject of said early expansion and development, it's possible that things are moving a bit too rapidly. (I'm not sure, so I need to play a bit more, and also hear what you all think.) I doubt that I'd consider putting the Despotism tile penalty back, but if I need to play with food production numbers a bit more, I can. It also occurred to me that two other changes I could make to help slow things down -- if and only if the consensus is that it seems necessary, of course, and that they're good ideas -- would be either to increase the chance of disease from flood plains before sanitation is researched, and/or to reduce the city transition sizes, so that towns *have* to stay a bit smaller.

(2) Obviously, I didn't switch the starting techs of Commercial and Scientific civilizations, as I previously said I was going to. The more I thought about it, the less I liked the idea.

(3) I also didn't add expiration techs to the various trait-specific small wonders. I figured we'd see how they play without expiration, first, and work from there. (I know it's a bit odd to have a wonder still churning out warriors or "ocean curraghs" in the modern era, but they're free units, and can be upgraded.) And while all of them now have prerequisite improvements, none of them actually require you to have founded a second city. And only six of them, rather than all eight, produce units. (The Agr/Ind Hittites can build SWs that both churn out workers!)

(4) "Ocean curraghs" need a better name!

(5) Any comments on the usefulness (or lack thereof) of various trait-specific wonders, and on the balance (or lack thereof) between them, would be appreciated.

(6) I doubt I'll give any additional trait-specific abilities to civs from the beginning of the game, except where additional tweaking of the existing SWs may be necessary, but I'm certainly open to the possibility of a second set of trait-specific wonders, each of which would be linked to a medieval or industrial tech, and require as a prerequisite the matching ancient trait-specific wonder. Any ideas regarding what those SWs and their effects could be, are welcome!

(7) I still like the idea of a Piracy wonder that produces Privateers. :D I should come up with something that lets me use a pic of Captain Jack Sparrow as the wonder splash, though!

(8) I need to figure out how to disallow settlers from goody huts. I'm pretty sure it can be done, since I'm sure I've read about it being done in other mods, but I couldn't figure out how to do it the other night. :(

(9) Someone suggested a while back that Area 51 should be buffed up a bit, but require a crashed UFO within the city's radius. I kinda like that.

(10) What do you folk think about railroad development now? Did the update last week slow it down enough, or should the base time for railroad building be increased even further?

(11) I'm thinking about adding a second UU to each civ -- put back the rider as a second Chinese UU, for example, and add longships for the Vikings and minutemen, perhaps, for the Americans. But if I'm going to do it, I'll need more ideas!

(12) Last year, I contemplated creating an all-female version of BBW. ("BBW Ladies' Might," I was calling it.) That's not gonna happen, but I still may replace one of the existing civs with an Amazon civ, just for the hell of it.

(13) By the way, any comments on the "Bigger, Better Earth" variant I threw in at the last minute last night? :D

(14) Ideas for better utilization of some of the less-important strategic resources would be much appreciated!

And now, as a special bonus, I'll list a few of the ideas I've had that I have so far (with great difficulty) managed *not* to implement:

(1) I thought about switching the Egyptian and English civ colors, so that England is yellow, and then replacing, for the English, the basic submarine unit with the "Yellow Submarine" unit someone created recently.

(2) I also really think that settlers and workers, just for the Chinese, should be replaced by Kinboat's panda settler and worker units. :D

(3) Finally, after seeing "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" last weekend -- an excellent movie, by the way! -- I really wanted to add a "Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory" wonder to the game. But though it's easy enough to have the wonder require cocoa, how could I represent Oompa Loompas?

-- Darryl

City growth seems to be OK, but *empire* growth.... Good *gawd*, you've got to churn out workers now! Between roads taking a bit longer to build, anyway, and workers under despotism only working half as efficiently, actually developing the territory you control is now a major undertaking! :D

-- Darryl

It plays almost like a totaly new mod. At least at the start. I have to build more workers earlier that is for sure.

The couple of games I have played so far have had very rapid increase in the number of cities after I get pottery and the wheel. A new settler with two warriors every 7 turns from one city alone. This seems a bit fast to me.

48 turns for an industrious worker to clear forest seems a bit slow, you can build all the buildings available in that time :). This I can live with, I just have to produce more workers. Automatic workers now seem to do different things, where they used to mine they now irrigate, hills for example. Not sure why.

So far I have never able to build the industrious small wonder - craftman's hall. Checking the biq I discovered I needed a smithy to build it. I had iron, it just was not in any city radius. I may need to alter the way I research tech to get iron working earlier so I can ensure I can build a smithy.

It may be just me, but i've found in the last version, and in this one, an error in the text file, with 3 links... one was the I don't know what trapestry, and two more (they are together), the game crushes when u go into the tech tree. I easily fix them, but being a newbie myself (at least in the modding stuff) I know it can be frustrating at times.
Other thing that I have noticed is that the ini file for the emmisary is also wrong. Again, it was easy to fix it, but well... you know.

Sorry about the spelling though, english is not my native tongue.

It may be just me, but i've found in the last version, and in this one, an error in the text file, with 3 links....

Although your comments were quite vague, it sounds as though the problems you encountered all involved the game's attempts to access graphics from one or another of the premade Conquests. The proper way to "fix" that problem is to put the BBW scenario files where they belong. There's nothing that needs to be adjusted or fixed, if BBW is installed correctly. :)

-- Darryl

Like I said, it maybe just me (i'm a little dumb sometimes) but the folders that appear in the text file are something like \..\..\..\..\art\ etc..
and the files that are listed are not in the zip file, I extracted all the files to a folder, and then did a search for the pcx files, but i couldn't find them!
That's why I replaced the links with another ones.

This is the copy from the pediaicons.txt :

#ICON_BLDG_Magna_Carta
SINGLE
84
..\..\conquests\middle ages\art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\MagnaCartalar ge.pcx
..\..\conquests\middle ages\art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\MagnaCartasma ll.pcx
#ICON_BLDG_Bayeux_Tapestry
SINGLE
85
..\..\conquests\middle ages\art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\Bayeuxlarge.p cx
..\..\conquests\middle ages\art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\Bayeuxsmall.p cx
#ICON_BLDG_The_Inquisition
SINGLE
86
..\..\conquests\middle ages\art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\Inquistitionl arge.pcx
..\..\conquests\middle ages\art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\Inquistitions mall.pcx
#ICON_BLDG_Bacchanalia

and i can't find the conquests-middle ages folder!!

And here is the one from the ini file of the emissary:

[Animations]
BLANK=
DEFAULT=..\..\..\..\..\Conquests\Middle Ages\Art\Units\Spy\spy_default.flc
WALK=
RUN=..\..\..\..\..\Conquests\Middle Ages\Art\Units\Spy\spy_run.flc
ATTACK1=..\..\..\..\..\Conquests\Middle Ages\Art\Units\Spy\spy_attack.flc
ATTACK2=
ATTACK3=
DEFEND=
DEATH=..\..\..\..\..\Conquests\Middle Ages\Art\Units\Spy\spy_death.flc
DEAD=
FORTIFY=..\..\..\..\..\Conquests\Middle Ages\Art\Units\Spy\spy_fortify.flc
FORTIFYHOLD=
FIDGET=..\..\..\..\..\Conquests\Middle Ages\Art\Units\Spy\spy_fidget.flc
VICTORY=..\..\..\..\..\Conquests\Middle Ages\Art\Units\Spy\spy_victory.flc

Those links should work fine if everything is installed in the default directory.

Did they error out before you changed them?

I have found the files. It was (as i thought) my mistake. I'm very sorry for bothering you. Thanks for the feedback.

Btw, it's a great mod, and with the changes of the new version, the start it's faster (maybe a little too faster).

As always, forgive my spelling... and thanks for your hard work DB!

Glad to hear you got things straightened out. :D

-- Darryl

I have a question for you. I'm playing right now with Egypt, and I have built the wonder (I don't remember the name) that produces an emissary every ## turns. The AI is suffering greatly, but it doesn't seem to be doing anything about that. It's not building a unit to detect mine, or something like that.
Is there any way to change that, so the AI defends itself better?

Hi

Im not a particularly experience civ 3 player and Im definitely a total novice when it comes to the world of 'modding'.
I liked the look of your mod and decided to give the game a crack, using it. I seem to be suffering however from an issue whereby my units are attacked by 'invisible' enemies and also sometimes I am prevented from entering tiles by invisible units?! :crazyeye:
Does anyone have any ideas on how I can fix this?! :)

Christian

There are invisible units in the game (emissary, spy) and at the same time, they can see invisible units, so build one of them, to be able to see the AI units.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I cant imagine that emissaries and spies can attack and destroy defensive units of mine like spearmen? Even if they are invisible! This is definitely some kind of graphical issue Im sure

That is EXACTLY what the emissaries and spies do. Read the first posts and the readme for details. What you are experiencing is normal and not a graphical issue.

I have been playing this mod since its infancy, trust me. Build the invisible units yourself, and station 1 in each city, then you will see these units attacking you.

UPDATE

Version 2005/08/11:

- Lowered max town size from 6 to 4, and max city size from 12 to 8.
- Reduced irrigation bonus for grassland and hills from 2 to 1.
- Lowered a few worker action base times. Building railroads now takes
24 turns instead of 36, clearing wetlands takes 24 turns instead of 32,
planting forests dropped from 24 turns to 18, and clearing forests
dropped from 24 turns to just 8.
- Switched the "start units" so that goody huts can now provide workers,
but not settlers. (This also means that the game will expect you to move
your starting worker before your starting settler, now, but I think we
can live with that.)
- Replaced "ocean curraghs" with "ocean galleys." (Yes, I still need a
better name.)

-- Darryl

Today's update doesn't include anything too radical; just a few tweaks to the changes I made a week and a half ago.

I think at this point that BBW is in pretty good shape, and so, given (a) the lack of any real feedback over the past few weeks and (b) the fact that Civ IV is coming out in just two more months, anyway, I think (pending any significant bug reports) I'm going to call it "done."

Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining that there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest. I'm just noting the fact. After all, I'm the one who let things sit for over a year without any updates; I can hardly complain if most of those interested in BBW last year moved on in the meantime. I'll probably go back to updating my EQ2 mods until Civ IV comes out, and then, well, all bets are off. :D

-- Darryl

Civ 4 is coming in 2 months? awesome...awesome to the max

Civ 4 is coming in 2 months? awesome...awesome to the max

Three months, actually. November. "My bad," as they say. But who's counting? :)

-- Darryl

UPDATE

Version 2005/08/15:

- Put the max town and city sizes back to 8 and 12, respectively. The
lower sizes were slowing down mid-game production and development too
much.

-- Darryl

Darryl, do you mean an update of biq-file?

Then, could you upload just the new biq? It's not a pleasure to download the whole thing again.

Thanks.

Then, could you upload just the new biq? It's not a pleasure to download the whole thing again.

I've never bothered with "patch" releases, because it's easier (both for me and for the end user) just to replace the full set of files than to piece together what needs to be updated or deleted, and because the ZIP/RAR files are so small, anyway. Hell, the largest is only 21 meg, which downloads in practically no time at all. (Yes, it'd take a few minutes on a dial-up connection, but I think we can safely assume that the number of online gamers still working with dial-up connections in the year 2005 is virtually nil. And those who are, really need to join the 21st century.)

But if you really want to do things the hard way, I've now made available a RAR file which contains *only* the files updated since the 2005/07/31 release. Just download it, find the various files in your "Scenarios" folder or "Bigger, Better Worlds" subfolder, and replace the old versions with the new ones.

The BBW 2005/08/15 "Patch" Download (http://www45.pair.com/dburgdor/c3cbbw/BBW_Quick_Update.rar)

-- Darryl