According to the magazine "Computer Gaming World" Civilization IV is expected to be released in 2005 by Atari.

Good:mwaha:

Finally...Whoa!! I better get get good at Civ3 first!! Only a year to get good!!!

*starts practicing*

Awesome!! Any idea as to what sort of new things can be expected?

This is all the info there was. It was listed in the pipeline, pg 48, which has release dates of upcoming games.

jee willickers is this gonna be swell.

Originally posted by truckingpete
Finally...Whoa!! I better get get good at Civ3 first!! Only a year to get good!!!

*starts practicing*

I hope, *THEY* take their time to get good....:(

There will have to be considerable improvements in all aspects of the game to get my money for it.
Especially:
Quality of the game - it should be bugfree
Quality of the AI - it should not need restrictions for the human player
Quality of the game logics - combat system, corruption concept are just some of the features which require massive rework

I will do quite some reading of the first experiences, before I am willing to spend another 50 bucks for that series.

Originally posted by Commander Bello

Quality of the AI - it should not need restrictions for the human player

Let's hope the first P6 - 30,000 GHZ computers are videly available then ;)

@Truckingpete: If you get good at it, would you mind posting a FAQ? I'm not sure I'll have enough time to practice :D

Originally posted by Commander Bello

Quality of the game - it should be bugfree


It is extremley rare to find a new game that is completley bugfree. :(

Sounds like they will be pushing it if they are trying to get it out the door that soon (especially since so much of their workforce is tied up with Pirates).

My little opinion/prediction. :)

Quality of the game logics - combat system, corruption concept are just some of the features which require massive rework


The biggest improvement IMHO will be in the direction of "economical warfare/economical victory/economically way to play" ... something that is TOTALLY missing now ( except the negating of resources/luxuries, but that's all ).

Regards

Please go let the AI be more intelligent in Civ4. That is the most important feature that needs to be improved. No mroe insane bonuses for the Ai on more difficult levels, well maybe some bonuses, but just have the AI play more aggressively and make its decisions more intelligently then it does now.

All I know is that when it is released I'll be buying it........ a month or two afterwords when it goes on sale for 9.95. :)

Also by then there should be at least one patch that fixes several of the bugs that were published to meet a quarterly release date.

Its too soon.

I would prefer it in 2006 and they take the time to get it right.

I still remember the disapointment of Heroes of Might and Magic IV when they rushed that out of the door. It has the chance to be the best game ever but ended up barely adequate. A number of years later with map makers designing round the deficiencies of the game it is better.

Fraxis need to get the AI sorted out. They need to look at the succession games to see hoe the human can take advantage of the poor AI.

This is the computer gaming industry. Announcing for 2005 probably *really* means 2006.

Originally posted by Chris1111
All I know is that when it is released I'll be buying it........ a month or two afterwords when it goes on sale for 9.95. :)

Also by then there should be at least one patch that fixes several of the bugs that were published to meet a quarterly release date.

Sheesh! And these are my fans? :)

I should mention that Computer Gaming World's pipeline is not based on any information that either Firaxis or Atari has released, and that we have not officially announced anything regarding Civ 4 short of that initial work is underway.

As to the naysayers on this thread, I can only say wait and see, and hopefully we can prove you wrong. :groucho: In the meantime, step aside so the rest of us can enjoy our Civ.

Best,
Jeff Foley
Atari

P.S. I've been replaying the final 20 or so turns of my last Emperor game, trying to find a way to stop the Incas from getting their cultural victory, but it looks like I simply let them build too many wonders and get too big unchallenged for me to do anything about it. Argh! I've never lost to an AI cultural victory before...

Don't worry, I'll even buy it when the bugs are crawling out of the box...

Of course there will be bugs! Even if Civ3 were "bug free", it still took 18 months for over 100,000 players to find the corruption bug. The least bug free programs are going to be console games, since they *HAVE* to be perfect. I was just playing some demos of games last night, and found bugs (like in Halflife - the flashlight doesn't cast a shadow if you're behind an object. ;) atleast not very well). Little things like that might either "slip by", or be very low on the "bug fix scale".

*starts her bug checklist for when she goes back to work at AQ Inc*. ;) Why, I'll even work 24/7 if you want me to! :p

I'm never too concered when there is a bug in a Civ game. The programmers are usally very good at getting patches out very quickly and making the game better. Unlike a lot of other companies that I have lost a lot of respect for, like EA and Command and Conquer Generals.

There is no way that a program as complex as Civilization will be free of bugs. The import thing is that Firaxis actually tries to fix the bugs, something which not all games companies do.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to Civ4. A year is not a long time in game development, I bet they've already been working on it for a long time.

All this talk about bugs ... you'd think it was a new civ country. I think it's great that something new is on the horizon.

Originally posted by Jeff_ATARI
I should mention that Computer Gaming World's pipeline is not based on any information that either Firaxis or Atari has released, and that we have not officially announced anything regarding Civ 4 short of that initial work is underway.I read the initial post of this thread, and my first reaction was, "Who's been smoking what?! 2005 is seriously too soon to have a quality product out the door." So thanks, Jeff, for reminding us that this projected release schedule is just somebody's pipe dream, not based on real data. :)

If you want to be technical, the 2nd part of the SDLC (Software Development Life Cycle - the Golden Rule of Computer Science in my college) is the "Feasibility Phase", part of which has to do with cost and time. To make a long story short, "8-12 months" is just a timeframe to make Atari happy when they get the paperwork from companies that want them to publish their game. (i.e., if Atari had to wait 18-24 months for every game, they'd probably be out of business...)

Somehow I think that if Civ4 is really planned to be released in 2005, then I only think it would be possibile by rushing a project.

If it's now in early stages, you'll need at least a year and a half to make a new game. And if some showstopper bug comes in, there would be no time for delay because of chrismas season.

It would be much better to be released in 2006.

Why this worrying about release dates? If it takes 200 man hours to build a road, it will take 4 men 50 hours to build it, but it will take 8 men only 25 hours, and 20 men will build it in 10 hours, and have time for a snack afterwards.

The release date is really not important, as long as the necessary staff is allocated for the required amount of time, is it?

And if Firaxis hires 365 more programmers they can finish it by tomorrow, right? Woohoo!!!

And if I impregnate 9 women I can have a baby in a month.

Originally posted by warpstorm
And if I impregnate 9 women I can have a baby in a month. No, actually in that one instance it's always 9 months, regardless of how much time you spend...

Originally posted by Isak
No, actually in that one instance it's always 9 months, regardless of how much time you spend...

he was being sarcastic, setting up an analogy between that and the programmer thing....wait a minute, you're being sarcastic too...never mind

It would be much better to be released in 2006.
I wish I was that patient. Don't you want right now?

Ok, early 2006

Originally posted by rschissler

I wish I was that patient. Don't you want right now?

No.

I want it after a lot of the game concepts have been revised, reworked, improved and massively play-tested.
I want it after a lot of the current limitations as for number of civs and cities have been put to a much higher level.
I want it after the engine has been optimized for more speed in the late game.
I want it after the editor allows for more logical changes. No more multiples of 25% in it (effect of markets, plants, libraries etc), but the chance to enter a numerical value for the effect.
I want it after the editor allows for easier modifications in regards to add units, improvements, techs etc.
I want it after it allows for all kinds of multiplayer games, preferrably with the option to change a LAN-game to a PBEM-game and vice versa.
I want it after a third of a trillion of other changes has successfully been implemented.

Then I will gladly spent some money for it again.

Originally posted by Commander Bello


No.

I want it after a lot of the game concepts have been revised, reworked, improved and massively play-tested.
I want it after a lot of the current limitations as for number of civs and cities have been put to a much higher level.
I want it after the engine has been optimized for more speed in the late game.
I want it after the editor allows for more logical changes. No more multiples of 25% in it (effect of markets, plants, libraries etc), but the chance to enter a numerical value for the effect.
I want it after the editor allows for easier modifications in regards to add units, improvements, techs etc.
I want it after it allows for all kinds of multiplayer games, preferrably with the option to change a LAN-game to a PBEM-game and vice versa.
I want it after a third of a trillion of other changes has successfully been implemented.

Then I will gladly spent some money for it again.

Well said! :goodjob:

I, too, am not happy about a Q4 2005 release. Seems way to quick for me. I'd rather have a good product out of the box (not necessarily bug free. You can't help bugs.) than one rushed out the door.

Originally posted by Chieftess
If you want to be technical, the 2nd part of the SDLC (Software Development Life Cycle - the Golden Rule of Computer Science in my college) is the "Feasibility Phase"

ARGH!!! DON'T SAY THOSE WORDS!!! (flashback to whole load of bad memories about the SDLC in Systems Development :cry: ) <shudder>

And everyone, just remember when they said 'Half Life 2' and 'The Sims 2' was due to be released. I upgraded my computer especially for Half Life 2 and I'm still waiting (however if my parents ask it was for college work ok?)

Even if they say 2005 or whenever, don't take it for granted

I would just like to know if there is an input email or thread or something that the designers will look at before making the initial/final gameplay decisions, since they are essentially in phase one.

Here are some thoughts:

Tiles
Landmark Forests: 1 forest tile per city can be designated as a park reserve/national forest. This would only produce commerce & give culture points, but would not produce food or shields, and could not have a railroad or mine built on it.

Forest Planting: Planting forests can help slow global warming. Also see United Nations. This would keep forest chopping for shields in the early ages, but promote forests in later ages.

Bonus Tiles: can be depleted like other resource tiles.

Coastal Waters: Can now contain and be mined for oil by dispatching a new naval unit to it (designers choice) and having it work like a colony does now.

Rivers: Workers can 'dam' a river for many turns. This can only be done once per river & once per city, but would create a 1 tile freshwater source on the tile that was dammed. Workers would be moved to an adjacent square upon completion.

Canal/Bridge: A 1 tile only bridge may be used to connect locations such as the modern day Panama Canal & Bering Straight. The canal can not be adjacent to a city or other canal & must connect 2 water tiles that are opposite of each other in respect to the canaled tile. The bridge would do the same for land, but must take place on a coastal water tile. The bridge could be built by the same new ship that constructs an oil colony (see Coastal Waters)

City tiles: 1 turn delay when moving population from a mined tile to an irrigated tile, and vice versa, in terms of productive gain.

Leaders
Cultural: A Cultural Leader with the ability to rush a Great Wonder (or smaller building), or create a National Monument in a city (one per city max) that gives culture points and adds tourism. This would be tactical in a border city if trying to culture flip a city, raise culture in a newly conquered city, or promote a cultural victory. These leaders would have a chance to spawn from (non-capitol/forbidden capitol cities with an extended 'we love the king' day, winning a war, 'x' turns without corruption, or positive UN action).

Air/Naval: see Air/Naval Elites

Units
Elites: Elite winning units can spawn Great Leaders or can be promoted into 'Special Forces.' These Spec Ops work like Privateers, but on land (ie - no nationality revealed).

Air/Naval Elites: Can become Squadron Leader/Flagship and be treated as Military Great Leaders (ie - build army), with maybe 1 less unit per army then ground troops allow (to keep things reasonable).

Refugees: A city may release a refugee (1 population point) that will migrate to a high cultured neighboring Civ. This would replace or maybe preceed the current Cultural Flip.

Conquered Civ's: Remaining units become Refugees, Barbarians, or neither.

Barbarians/Terrorists: Barbarians can evolve with the times. They will contain units that are '1 step' below that of the average Civ's best unit for their elite spawn, and lesser units for secondary spawn. Their camps can spawn in any land tile not used by a city, even if it's within a country's borders (ie - a culturally gained square). Camps are more likely to spawn next to cities with high corruption, or which were recently conquered.

Land Transports: Helicopter (treated like a land unit traveling a road) that can travel any land square other then mountains & can hold up to 3 units.

Attack Chopper: Apache style chopper (treated like a land unit traveling a road) that can travel any land square other then mountains & coastal waters, and is a Modern combat unit.

Game Features
Civil War: If corruption is too high and there is room for another Civ, a Culturally-Linked Civ will spawn in the corrupt cities. This Civ will take control of those cities. The units inside will be demoted, or left the same but at smaller numbers, or altered to guerillas/other offset units. Since this new Civ will have relations with the other Civs, the relations will be reversed from the Original Civs relations with those Civs (ie - Civ A's allies become enemies to Civ B, and vice versa).

World War (varying on map size/Civ opponents): When multiple Civs are in a large war, there is a chance for it to become a 'World War.'
Example- Let's assume there are 12 Civs in a game. Civ Z invades Civ A, and is therefore noted as the 'aggressor.' Another Civ joins the fight via an Alliance, which team doesn't matter. The other Civ calls forth it's own Alliance, and this continues to a set number. Let's say the number is 6. Once there are 6 Civs involved (assuming there are at least 2 Civs on each side & no same side Civ's are at War), there is a chance for it to become a 'World War.'
(A + B) vs Z
(B + C) vs Z
(A + D) vs Y
A vs (Z + Y)

A, B, C, D are aligned on one side & Z, Y on the other. Since Z was the aggressor, that side is dubbed the 'Axis' & the defending side (based on A) becomes the 'Allies.'

Now say Civ's E, M, N are neutral. Civ E decides to ally with D against Y. Since Y is part of the Axis, and D the Allies - this makes E part of the 'Allies' and are now allied with A, B, C, D against Y, Z. On the other hand, if Civ D allies with M against N, since M/N are not part of the World War, this becomes a separate affair.

Winning Civs gain Culture Leaders (or high chance of).

I know it's a lot to think about, but it's easy in terms of programming - all just IF/THEN scenarios.

Diplomacy
United Nations: Small Wonder or Modern Advancement leads to committee vote. Must contribute 10% of military units to UN (your choice, but in a given time), or lose vote/seat in UN.

UN votes on stopping wars, preventing Civil Wars, Becomes Allies in World Wars, can demand all Civs to set aside x% of land to forests to fight global warming (see above), demand Civ to destroy Nukes, make peace with other Civs or face UN troops (UN works as AI Civ who always forces peace), etc.

Civs: Can trade military units, not just workers. These units are demoted if infantry, armored units trade as is.

Can also demand peace be made by warring Civs (with or without UN).

Techs
Space Victory: Moon base, not spaceship - more realistic.

Satellite: updates 'x'% of map over 'y' time. Small Wonder?

Space Capsule: Small Wonder that works with other Civs capsules. Example- First Capsule is Space Station. Each additional capsule (1 per Civ) connects to International Space Station. This improves relations with those Civs. Each capsule itself also gives a tech bonus (say 5%), plus (say 1%) more per additional Civ capsules added to it (no more then 8% total). Must have a capsule in ISS to make a Moon Base for Space Victory?

Historical Relations: If 2 Civs have been at peace for the extent of at least one full Age, past wars become 'forgotten' - improving relations. Example- Civ A & Z war in Medieval Age, but declare Peace before the end. As soon as one completes the Industrial Age (assuming they remain at peace), the old war memories are gone, and relations improve (other Civs no longer say "we remember how you treated [Civ A]").

Traits: Each Civ has one neutral trait, but also one trait that is exclusive to another. This means certain Civs will always be at some odds (a vegetarian society would look down on a carniverous one, etc).

Other
Combat: Troops over-run forces that are more then an Age old (or even 2). Example- Spearmen are from the Ancient Age, Armor from the Modern Age. Since there are 2 full Ages between them, the spearman is over-run.

Workers: When set to auto, you can toggle which options are okay (ie - auto: road-on, irrigate-on, plant forest-off, etc).

Cities: Abundant supplies can be shared with another city, if a trade route is established?


Just some suggestions...

What about esthetics? At least give us an option of not having a railroad on every square - the Civ II model would be fine. Also would like right clicking a square to show improvements. It would be fantastic on the right click popup if you could drill down to a picklist screen of graphics - i.e. have a choice of mines with dif looks, etc. Firaxis would not have to paint these, there are plenty of modders for that. I would love to have a cotton field on one of those irrigated plains.

My guess is that Civ IV will be released Christmas of 2006. 2005 is just way too early to be possible.

Thats Great!:)
I cant wait:D

Thats Great!:)
I cant wait:D

oh i am sorry i am new,
i screwed up in my posting
forgive me

I dotn care what the hell is in it as long as this time, if the Byzantines area civ, that i get my ****ing cataphracts ;)

@Xen FLICster? I wish I had that option for the things I want.

Also, would it be too much to ask to record scores in the HoF for Civ3PTW? I don't care if it is noted that the game was scenario or modded.

Originally posted by sourboy
I would just like to know if there is an input email or thread or something that the designers will look at before making the initial/final gameplay decisions, since they are essentially in phase one.

Here are some thoughts:
Tiles
Landmark Forests: 1 forest tile per city can be designated as a park reserve/national forest. This would only produce commerce & give culture points, but would not produce food or shields, and could not have a railroad or mine built on it.


Nice option to have tiles producing culture & gold; instead of food, shields & gold.
But i will also like to see have 3 basic types of laborers (those who produce produce resources by working a tile), instead of the generic one, for more varying tile production:
a) the food laborers produce a large amount of food & a small amount of shields, obviously based on tile potential.
b) the shield laborers produce a large amount of shields & a small amount of gold.
c) the gold laborers produce a large amount of gold & a small amount of food.
The bring on basic specialists (those who produce resources by themselves), of one kind of a basic resource (food, shield or gold) only or one of the advanced resources (happy faces, research flasks or culture). So we will get:
food specialists(currently none), shield specialists (currently civil engineers, i guess... i still don't play conquests), gold specialists (currently tax collectors), happy faces specialists(currently entertainers), research specialists(currently scientists) and culture specialists(currently none).
Advanced specialists will produce more than one resource (be it basic or advanced) and should be available by an specific advance.
Each tile modification or some specific advances will help laborers to increase their productivity and specific advances only will help specialists to increase their productivity. Specifics advances may, in addition, change the laborer or specialist name.
We could then create advanced laborers with specific advances required, let's have culture laborers to work a tile with a "national park" feature who will give a large amount of culture and a small amount of gold.


Forest Planting: Planting forests can help slow global warming. Also see United Nations. This would keep forest chopping for shields in the early ages, but promote forests in later ages.


Good idea, but...
How will be forest impact in global warming? by which amount it will be decreased or increased by planting or cutting forest?


Bonus Tiles: can be depleted like other resource tiles.


If it's a mineral resource then it can naturally deplete. If it's a non-mineral one it depends on how it's used: if you plant as many new trees as the ones you're cutting the forest will prevail, if you only cut... they'll deplate. This will need adding to each goverment resource-using level, some may be more devastating while others may be more preservating.


Coastal Waters: Can now contain and be mined for oil by dispatching a new naval unit to it (designers choice) and having it work like a colony does now.


Pretty good on having water colonies... but let's have it for any water resource, after the appropiate advance, of course.


Rivers: Workers can 'dam' a river for many turns. This can only be done once per river & once per city, but would create a 1 tile freshwater source on the tile that was dammed. Workers would be moved to an adjacent square upon completion.


I don't understand this... what's the difference from just irrigating the tile?


Canal/Bridge: A 1 tile only bridge may be used to connect locations such as the modern day Panama Canal & Bering Straight. The canal can not be adjacent to a city or other canal & must connect 2 water tiles that are opposite of each other in respect to the canaled tile. The bridge would do the same for land, but must take place on a coastal water tile. The bridge could be built by the same new ship that constructs an oil colony (see Coastal Waters)


It's fine, after the appropiate advance, of course.


City tiles: 1 turn delay when moving population from a mined tile to an irrigated tile, and vice versa, in terms of productive gain.


Good for more depth in economical model, representing that changing land use it's not as easy as it may seems.
Delay must be based on the difference betwen the tiles production. If it's producing a large amount of any resource and it's changed to produce a large amount of another resource the delay will be long. The opposite for small amounts.


Leaders
Cultural: A Cultural Leader with the ability to rush a Great Wonder (or smaller building), or create a National Monument in a city (one per city max) that gives culture points and adds tourism. This would be tactical in a border city if trying to culture flip a city, raise culture in a newly conquered city, or promote a cultural victory. These leaders would have a chance to spawn from (non-capitol/forbidden capitol cities with an extended 'we love the king' day, winning a war, 'x' turns without corruption, or positive UN action).


Pretty good... what are the chances?


Air/Naval: see Air/Naval Elites



Units
Elites: Elite winning units can spawn Great Leaders or can be promoted into 'Special Forces.' These Spec Ops work like Privateers, but on land (ie - no nationality revealed).

Air/Naval Elites: Can become Squadron Leader/Flagship and be treated as Military Great Leaders (ie - build army), with maybe 1 less unit per army then ground troops allow (to keep things reasonable).

Refugees: A city may release a refugee (1 population point) that will migrate to a high cultured neighboring Civ. This would replace or maybe preceed the current Cultural Flip.

Conquered Civ's: Remaining units become Refugees, Barbarians, or neither.

Barbarians/Terrorists: Barbarians can evolve with the times. They will contain units that are '1 step' below that of the average Civ's best unit for their elite spawn, and lesser units for secondary spawn. Their camps can spawn in any land tile not used by a city, even if it's within a country's borders (ie - a culturally gained square). Camps are more likely to spawn next to cities with high corruption, or which were recently conquered.

Land Transports: Helicopter (treated like a land unit traveling a road) that can travel any land square other then mountains & can hold up to 3 units.

Attack Chopper: Apache style chopper (treated like a land unit traveling a road) that can travel any land square other then mountains & coastal waters, and is a Modern combat unit.


Excellent additions... except for terrorists camps in culturally influenced squares. They should be hidden, except for a specialized unit available with an appropiate advance. Also remaining units may chose to join your army, if they admired your culture.


Game Features
Civil War: If corruption is too high and there is room for another Civ, a Culturally-Linked Civ will spawn in the corrupt cities. This Civ will take control of those cities. The units inside will be demoted, or left the same but at smaller numbers, or altered to guerillas/other offset units. Since this new Civ will have relations with the other Civs, the relations will be reversed from the Original Civs relations with those Civs (ie - Civ A's allies become enemies to Civ B, and vice versa).

World War (varying on map size/Civ opponents): When multiple Civs are in a large war, there is a chance for it to become a 'World War.'
Example- Let's assume there are 12 Civs in a game. Civ Z invades Civ A, and is therefore noted as the 'aggressor.' Another Civ joins the fight via an Alliance, which team doesn't matter. The other Civ calls forth it's own Alliance, and this continues to a set number. Let's say the number is 6. Once there are 6 Civs involved (assuming there are at least 2 Civs on each side & no same side Civ's are at War), there is a chance for it to become a 'World War.'
(A + B) vs Z
(B + C) vs Z
(A + D) vs Y
A vs (Z + Y)

A, B, C, D are aligned on one side & Z, Y on the other. Since Z was the aggressor, that side is dubbed the 'Axis' & the defending side (based on A) becomes the 'Allies.'

Now say Civ's E, M, N are neutral. Civ E decides to ally with D against Y. Since Y is part of the Axis, and D the Allies - this makes E part of the 'Allies' and are now allied with A, B, C, D against Y, Z. On the other hand, if Civ D allies with M against N, since M/N are not part of the World War, this becomes a separate affair.

Winning Civs gain Culture Leaders (or high chance of).

I know it's a lot to think about, but it's easy in terms of programming - all just IF/THEN scenarios.


What'll be the effect on reputations of each civ?


Diplomacy
United Nations: Small Wonder or Modern Advancement leads to committee vote. Must contribute 10% of military units to UN (your choice, but in a given time), or lose vote/seat in UN.

UN votes on stopping wars, preventing Civil Wars, Becomes Allies in World Wars, can demand all Civs to set aside x% of land to forests to fight global warming (see above), demand Civ to destroy Nukes, make peace with other Civs or face UN troops (UN works as AI Civ who always forces peace), etc.

Civs: Can trade military units, not just workers. These units are demoted if infantry, armored units trade as is.

Can also demand peace be made by warring Civs (with or without UN).


Nice additions, giving UN importance to the game... but only later on. There should be earlier versions for earlier eras


Techs
Space Victory: Moon base, not spaceship - more realistic.

Satellite: updates 'x'% of map over 'y' time. Small Wonder?

Space Capsule: Small Wonder that works with other Civs capsules. Example- First Capsule is Space Station. Each additional capsule (1 per Civ) connects to International Space Station. This improves relations with those Civs. Each capsule itself also gives a tech bonus (say 5%), plus (say 1%) more per additional Civ capsules added to it (no more then 8% total). Must have a capsule in ISS to make a Moon Base for Space Victory?

Historical Relations: If 2 Civs have been at peace for the extent of at least one full Age, past wars become 'forgotten' - improving relations. Example- Civ A & Z war in Medieval Age, but declare Peace before the end. As soon as one completes the Industrial Age (assuming they remain at peace), the old war memories are gone, and relations improve (other Civs no longer say "we remember how you treated [Civ A]").

Traits: Each Civ has one neutral trait, but also one trait that is exclusive to another. This means certain Civs will always be at some odds (a vegetarian society would look down on a carniverous one, etc).


As i posted many times, when talking about games, "realism" doesn't take any part on them. I prefer to refer as "deeper modelling system"
The conditions for "Space victory" are getting something in the "space" be it a moon base or an alpha centauri trip. It doesn't affect the game play, unless they are reached in different ways. Building spaceship parts or having a module in ISS plus building moon base parts are almost the same.
I don't agree with specific traits... they'll give nothing more that flavor.


Other
Combat: Troops over-run forces that are more then an Age old (or even 2). Example- Spearmen are from the Ancient Age, Armor from the Modern Age. Since there are 2 full Ages between them, the spearman is over-run.

Workers: When set to auto, you can toggle which options are okay (ie - auto: road-on, irrigate-on, plant forest-off, etc).

Cities: Abundant supplies can be shared with another city, if a trade route is established?


Just some suggestions...

Overruning may make sense. But tech lead will be a crusher...
Actually some modders are giving units with "shooting weapons" a bombard option. Why not going deeper and make a complete new type of units: shooting units?
This shooting units get an advantage over close combat units, because they may fire at them while they come to melee. Each combat round the close combat units make a check to reach shooting units ground, at that round shooting units lose their advantage and must use they close combat weapons (if they have any) till the end of the battle.
If both units are shooting... the combat will be managed as if both were close combat units, except in the case of different ranges. The larger range unit gets the advantage, because the shorter range unit has to make a check to close in to be effective.
This will lead to have two attack numbers: one for range and one for close and two movement numbers: one for walking around the map and one for checking the close combat.

More of my own suggestions are:
1. Numerical distribution of gold into treasury, research and happiness instead of currently based on percentage.
2. National granary to ensure food distribution between cities connected to trade network and to feed military units. This will lead to change city growth concept based on tiles potential rather than food accumulation.
Military units may have other options on feeding: sacking enemy tiles or hunting in the wilderness (non-city tiles). If both are unattainable they receive the ration from national granary. Leaders may choose to starve military units or citizens if hunger arises.
3. If a civ has a special unit with the ability to move on forests and jungles as roads... then it must be located somewhere it could take advantage of it. The mongol keshik became excellent mountain and hills soldiers... because they grew up there. Same on civ traits, agricultural civs should start on grasslands... as currently seafaring units start on coast.
4. Blind researching... Ancient leaders didn't know they could someday in the future build tanks. As a player i may choose not to build ancient units and wait to build tanks, because i know i'll get them. This will lead to division of advances by traits, so instead of choosing an advance to search you choose a trait to search... increasing the chances on making a discovery on that trait. You may choose no to do so and leaving it entirely random.

Keep civilized

David

Originally posted by dguichar
Nice option to have tiles producing culture & gold; instead of food, shields & gold. But i will also like to see have 3 basic types of laborers...
I agree that there should be more work done within the cities. More tile options & more worker types would add much to the game.

How will be forest impact in global warming? by which amount it will be decreased or increased by planting or cutting forest?
I would think going by [% of tiles being forests], rather then per tile, for calculating global warming. What amount of effect this would have - I don't know. I would expect it to be the same as one of the lower causes of g/w is set to now, except that it could vary (+/-) that number - depending on forest levels.


If it's a mineral resource then it can naturally deplete. If it's a non-mineral one it depends on how it's used
I'm thinking more in terms of game, cattle, wheat, etc. Considering the thousands of years the game takes place over, I think it's safe to say they could be effected too - and should have the chance of changing to normal.

Pretty good on having water colonies... but let's have it for any water resource, after the appropiate advance, of course.
Definately. It just seems foolish to let coastal waters go to waste when much of our mining/harvesting is becoming off land.

Pretty good...[Cultural Leaders] what are the chances?
Depending on what special actions they have, I would expect them to have similar chances of spawning as the current leaders. If they were to stray from the norm, I would think they would be more common - but have weaker special functions.

Excellent additions... except for terrorists camps in culturally influenced squares. They should be hidden, except for a specialized unit available with an appropiate advance. Also remaining units may chose to join your army, if they admired your culture?
Yeah, influenced tiles is a tough call, but look at Afghanistan. Also, I would think that in those cases, it would more likely be a camp spawned next to a newly conquered city. The difference would be when the city expands it's cultural borders. Instead of the camp being destroyed, it remains - representing loyalists to the old regime (think Iraq). As far as remaining units of a destroyed Civ, the only way I could see them joining the conquering army is if they joined as a militia or guerilla - as they would have to change their fighting customs otherwise. This again, would only be one option, as I would think it more likely they become rebels, refugees, or just disperse.

What'll be the effect on reputations of each civ [World War's]??
Couple options. Allied Civs gain relations, foes lose, neutrals act as normal - or - the 'Allies' gain high relations with each other and lose an average amount of relations with the enemies, the 'Axis' gain an average amount of relations with each other and lose a lot of relations with the 'Allies', and neutrals gain a little relations with the 'Allies' and a little is lost with the 'Axis.' There are many possibilities on this one...

Nice additions, giving UN importance to the game... but only later on. There should be earlier versions for earlier eras
My only gripe in Civ is the favoring of warmongering. The UN is currently nothing more then a 'backdoor win' when you think you're going to lose the final war, space race, or world culture. Now I wasn't a big fan of SMAC, but the council in there was a major element of the game - and would be a nice way to make diplomacy mean something in Civ.

The conditions for "Space victory" are getting something in "space" be it a moon base or an alpha centauri trip. It doesn't affect the game play
I agree, I just think it seems a bit more likely to jump from Stealth/Anti-missle technology to a moon base, rather then a trip to another star - we haven't even gotten to Mars yet! So yeah, Moon base would replace Colony ship, but else would be the same.

I don't agree with specific traits... they'll give nothing more that flavor.
Flavor, yes, but also more diverse relations - meaning more diplomacy. As I said above, the game is all warmongering. Granted our race is a very aggressive one, but we are learning & becoming more civil. I mean at this point - I don't see much that's 'Civil' in Civilization! Kind of makes the game an oxy-moron. I'm just trying to come up with some ideas to make it more balanced.

Overruning may make sense. But tech lead will be a crusher...some modders are giving units with "shooting weapons" a bombard option. Why not going deeper and make a complete new type of units: shooting units?
Over-running would solve the [tank vs spearman] problem & add realism. Yes, tech leads could be decisive - but how often would a Civ be more then an Age ahead of another to have this take effect? I play Earth maps mostly, and I always hated going to war with England & Japan because they were island Civs who never got out of the Ancient Age, but who would kill my tanks...c'mon...

The projectile-attack unit would be a nice addition. I too have thought about this on the side and think they need to give a bonus to these types of attackers, or create something new.


There are a lot of things that could make or break Civ4. I just hope the developers spend quality time on making the game better, not different. I've seen too many series flop because the makers decided to change something around rather then make the existing better.

I think we could also have guerrillas appear in newly conquered cities that you could take back meaning no more sword rushes you would have to have a strong garrison and then the uprising revert would have to be fought be guerrillas but they don't have to start a war if it isn't already a war going on.

Naming certain land and sea areas (within the influence) would be cool, like in Alpha Centori.

Jeff.
Maybe if you could cause the Incas to go in anarchy, Now there is an idea for Civ 4, and declare war.

I think rivers should come in two sizes/types.
Those that can accomodate ships, and those that can only accomodate smaller boats (like triremes in the Nile).
Steamboats and ironclads did a lot of business on rivers, as did triremes, galleys, sailing ships, and barques.
I think the option to build canals at a lower cost than cities would also be useful.

A better map generator, with more options, that produce good looking map, perhaps even some pre-establish typical city radius ressources for each civilzation (wines, river and hills for Rome) or at least a shortcut à la Galactic Cilization to re-generate map.

More options to create or customize a civ (color, ethnic group, characteristics).

Rework the diplomacy model and implement economic war.

I think it would be a good idea to use hex tiles instead of square tiles.
This would allow more realistic city borders, river shapes, land distribution…
Combat and tactics would gain another dimention.
There would only be six directions to move from a tile, but diagonal movement would be more realistically distanced for travelling, ranges would be more circular…

There should be some way of storing exess shields.
Extra food is stored, money and science are shared nationwide with loss only to corruption and waste.

Military units should use citizenry just as do the workers and settlers. The real military takes from the population. Disbanded units would add back to the population and give back some shields, as they currently do.