I would rather have it with the kittenofchaos mod. Is there any way to make that happen?

Originally posted by bnmac3
I would rather have it with the kittenofchaos mod. Is there any way to make that happen?

Actually, I was able to run the patch with KittenofChaos map. My problem was that Washington D. C. was just several tiles away from Berlin! And China wasn't too far away either. Is this normal with this map? Because, I thought it was supposed to have correct starting positions.

How did you run the patch? I love the kittenofchaos mod, and did you just install it and it picked it up? just courious.....

I love history, and many innaccuracies need to be corrected.
First: Fascism was created in Italy. It is based on nationalism to an extreme. It has an executive with full power (basically a dictator) and a weak elected legislature that usually deals with social issues. Second: Fascist governments were established in Italy, Germany, Spain, many Balkan states, and many South American countries. Third: Although Germany had a Fascist form of government, it was run by Nazis. Nazis believe in a supreme race and kill the Jews and conquer the world and stuff like that. If a Nazism patch was created, it is time to be outraged. Some Fascist regimes were good to ALL it's people and brought prosperity and peace (like in Spain, unfortunatley there was a bloody civil war first but...) Fascism is a historically important government and should not be ignored. Call to Power had Fascism why not Civ3? As for historical accuracy and balance, I will be releasing a government patch that has a much more balanced Fascist government. If you choose Fascism as your government, you DONT HAVE TO BE HITLER!

Wow, some people get in a fuss very quickly.

It's simply amazing how many people keep saying Fascism is the same as Despotism, only to be countered by the people that say Fascists and Nazis are differant.

We go from extreme generalizations, to people who like to split hairs.

Look it up in a dictionary, Nazi Germany is often refered to as FASCIST Germany much in the same breath that Imperial Japan was considered Fascist.

In a game as generic as Civ3, one can't be too specific (look at Democracy, Republic, Monarchy... I could go into all kinds of tirrades much like captain walrus and say that a constitutional monarchy is differant from a regular monarchy or I could go into the differant types of Democracies). Facts are facts, Nazis are a form of Fascists, and in a game that looks at GOVERNMENT EFFECTS, one is truely splitting hairs between an ultra-right-wing Fascist and an ultra-right-wing Nazi. They both run their governments with a Totalitarian regime and a free-market economy, and in a game as generic as Civ3, to split hairs between them is frankly, absurd and a bit anal.

As for Hitler himself, he's represented as the leader of Germany... not of France, England, America or any other country. Hitler in Civ3, is not a Fascist, a Nazi, a Communist, a Democrat or a Monarchist. He can be any of them... you might have Germany led by a Communist Hitler.

The Fascist Patch does not make you become Hitler, nor does it make you Fascist. You can choose to fight AGAINST HITLER... you can be a democracy or a fascist, and never be Hitler, it doesn't matter, furthermore, if you're panties get up in a bunch that easily, you don't even have to download the patch with Hitler at all, so please, relax, sit for a spell, take a chill pill, stop flaming other people and claiming supreme omnipotence and realize that in a game as generic as Civ3, trying to split the differance between a Fascist and a Nazi is frankly rather anal retentive.

To the people who said that fascism simply had to be the most evil form of government ever...read The Gulag Archepeligo *shudder*
Yet Solzetitzhen (sp?) moved back to Mother Russia...go figure...
As for the game, it was quite a change from civ2, and i kept playin civ2 for a while, after i got it, but it's grown on me (no fungi jokes, here...)
The only real prob I have with it, is the unbearable corruption in ALL forms of gov.'s...I like to play on huge maps....how in the hell does the AI spread out so much, so quickly, across oceans???

I installed the patch but I don't feel like starting from the beggining. In Civ2 we had WWII scenarios which were great, what about Civ 3? What are my opinions? I want to jump right in to Global War... thanks.

P.S: And thanks Wolfschanze for the mod.

Yeah, 1297ad, you're just a little bit off-topic here ;), believe me there are plenty of threads about the inadequacy of the corruption model in the game, and the opposite. It's a change from CivII, but if you want help download the 1.21f patch because the Courthouse and Police Station do a lot more now.

As for this patch, I used it before I got 1.21f, then I started to wonder if it was having an unbalancing effect on my game. For all intents and purposes, it is the same as taking a Republic and stripping the War Weariness from it, and for that reason I discarded it. It's just too powerful.

In response to the last post... he's essentially correct, but misses a few points... yes, it's LIKE Republic with no war weariness... but he completely missed two critical points!

Who uses Republic in the late game? Republic is an early form of government, not a late one... that would be like saying Democracy is too overpowering because it's better than Monarchy or Republic... like, DUH!!!! It's supposed to be!

Bottom line, by default, in the late game, you're either going to be Communist or a Democracy... few people will choose Republic in the late game... it's simply "too-old".

Same thing with Fascism... it is a modern replacement for Republics and/or Monarchies, much like Democracy itself is a replacement for Republic.

Also not mentioned is the HUGE downside of having FORCED LABOR for project rushing in a Fascist Regime, while a Republic has money rushes... quite a differance, and a large downside...

So don't jump to conclusions without thinking things through... tossing out Fascism because you don't think it's balanced is a poor thing to do if you've only figured out HALF of what the government can and can't do. Furthermore, anything you can do in a Fascist regime, the computer can too!

what's everyone complaining about? If we eliminate the facist patch because someone complains, what's next.. the nukes go? then what the battle ships and destroyers cuz they've killed people too? Get a grip, it's just a game. By the way, what kind of movies do you watch, none with any killing in them I hope.

Movies with tons of killing!
:slay:
:slay:
:slay:
:slay:
:slay:
:slay:

Now don't take me as a racist or whatever. I have studied facism in Europe, etc. I am Jewish, so don't think I support it or anything. Facism was first thought up by Mussolini in Italy during the 1920s when he became its dictator. Facism is like Communism in that a dictator rules. But unlike communism, it is a capitalistic or "corporate" state which has capitalism. The thing is capitalism is government controlled. Now fascism in Italy was NOT RACIST until Hitler made a pact with Mussolini, causing Mussolini to inact racial laws, etc. like jews not being allowed into the Facist party. When Hitler was rising to power he was using parts of the facist doctrine, but he manipulated it into NAZISM, which is a different kind of thing socially-speaking and that is that it is FASCISM with a RACIAL policy. So Hitler was a Nazi not a fascist. So the fact the author has pictures of hitler associated with Fascism is not accurate at all. He was with Nazism, which was racial. So when we talk about fascism as in a pure form people are inaccurate to oppose it due to its racial policies, due to the fact there are none. You can be opposed to it due to its undemocratic nature, its repressive form etc. Another note about fascism as a government: it believed that WAR was a nation's true test. So associating Fascism with expansionialism is a accurate kind of thing.

Hitler was a Nazi, rose as a Fascist
Mussolini was a Fascist, which rose as a Fascist, but who adopted Nazi ideas in order to appease the pact with Hitler.

I finally downloaded the fascist patch, and I see nothing wrong with it.The only thing was not downloading the hitler pics, which had an option of not having that part. Civ 3 should have put it in anyways....

Sorry Yonif, but Fascism and Nazism will ALWAYS be associated with one another, and both have incredibly similar economic models. Nazism itself was spawned from Fascism as you yourself said, so it is a derivitive of Fascism, and is ergo appropriate to speak of them together. Racist garbage aside, the mere mention of Fascism often conjures up Nazi Germany whether you like it or not Yonif, Hitler will always be associated with Fascism.

Would you sleep better at night if I called it the "NAZISM PATCH"? It would still be the exact same thing... I think you're getting a little too obsessed with names and trying very hard to split a hair here... they're too similar to split up in a game as generic as Civ3, so sorry, trying to say Hitler has nothing to do with Fascism, especially in a Civ3 sense, is simply idiotic.

I am sorry wolfshane, but I agree with yonif. There is a difference between facism and nazism. Your basically calling all of the other fascist counties of the time (Italy, Spain, Argentina) Nazis. That is in essence what you are saying....I just dont agree.

Wolfshanze, congratulations on a great Civ3 patch and kudos for all the hard work. I personally use Führer Hitler as leader of Germany and National Socialism as an included government (similar to your Fascist government but with higher worker efficiency, paid labor, and 0% assimilation chance). And to all the critics of this patch: sit down, shut up, and realize that without "evil fascism" all of Europe would have fallen to damned Soviet communism. If you don't like it, don't download it, but quit condemning Wolfshanze for his work.

BNMac3,

You don't get it either... I am not calling all Fascists Nazis, but I am calling all Nazis Fascists....

It's a simple corrolation really, and I'm surprised you all don't understand something so very simple.

Nazism is a form of Fascism, but not vice versa... you wouldn't have Nazism without Fascism.

For the purpose of this patch, and in a game as abstract as Civ3, Fascism and Nazism are the same in GOVERNMENT FORM, NOT IDIOLOGY. How the two governments WORK is almost identical... how they have ideologies is differant, but simply put, ideologies are NOT reflected in Civ3, ergo they are both the same.

All Nazi nations are a form of Fascist, but not all Fascists are Nazis...

Much the same as all Generalissimo Francisco Francos are dead, but not all dead people are Generalissimo Francisco Franco.

who cares! they're all f*uckheads anyways so why seperate them? australia isnt literally a democracy, its a republican monarch but everyone still calls it a "democracy"( its a republican monarch because it has a senate, prime minister etc and monarch because they rule under the british crown and have a governor general-the queen's representative), phew! felt good to get THAT off my mind, sorry to bore you's but...yea

Originally posted by ironfang
Its hard to seperate the fact that people who play CIV may have no real concept of history.

To call Fascism "historicaly insignifigant" would be saying that WWII had no real affect on the 20th century. If you wanna look at it in this light, communism is almost as "historically insignifigant" because it really only lasted 1/2 a century, but we still have it.

For all of you who have had your tiny little minds crafted by "after school specials" and "Lifetime specials" I have some historical notes for you.

Attrocities you just didnt know about (or you werernt concerned about because it didnt happen to a US ally) and government types that go along with it.


Time Period Killed Government Responsible
250AD 300,000+ Roman Republic
3rd Punic War
Destruction of Carthage
1200-1400AD 2M+ English Monarchy
Crusades
African Slave Trade
1600AD 1M+ Theocracy, Inquisition
1775-1850 30M+ Democracy, USA
Western Imperialist
Expansion,
Native American Genocide
First documented use of
bio-warfare.
1935 25M+ German, Facism.
Jewish/Polish/Russian
Massacres
1950 10M+ USSR, Communism
Stalinization of Russia
1960-1990 5M+ Iraq, Despotism
Ethnic Cleansing of Kurdish

So pick your "innocent" government.

On the Fascist note, the Italians where fascist but committed no genocide. There are governments today (Isreal) that very closely resemble fascism ironicaly enough, but we dont call them fascisms, we call them Socialist-Democracies.

ironfang

Ironfang I E-Mail our Secretary of State
call Israel than Fascist Nazi like Police State that is totaly dishonest by calling
itself than Demonacy. Than America is
just as bad, I read in the NY Time E-Mail version that one of their Reporter was tell than Pakistan Clerical
that if was wrong to kill people for barmical and the Clerical said President
Bill Clinton murder Christian.
I will download this patch as I alway
like than honest fascist over than dishonest demoncat or repulician any day.

Originally posted by King Of America
I think almost all the posts about Fascism have missed an important point: it failed historically. It failed quickly (within 12 years) and in addiion to destroying millions of people, it subjected its most prominent supporters to ridicule for most, if not all, of history since its demise.

For better or for worse, fundamentalism has proven more effective.

First Hilter was dyning of Parkson Diease
than he start WW2 alot sooner than he plan on as he really hated the jew and want to wripe then off the face of the planet. The other leader of the Nazi party
like the commander of chief of the air force and the head of the SS like to excast money from the Jews instead of
killing . So Hilter realism he would have
to start than war as in war time you can get away with alot more than you can in peace time.

There is than Book title The Good Old Days The Holocaust as seem by its Perpetrators and Bystanders. Hiimmler
issue than standing order that any SS
men or german soilder that didnot want to murder Jew and other can refuse to so with no officate action taken against then but have to do other duty in place of it. The SS have in each compancy than man assign to make sure the SS didnot violate human
right or civil right and he was to report
any violate to Himmler an the International Red Cross but he was alway reporting in sick when the SS was doing it work so he wouldnot have
to report anything.

Originally posted by VoodooAce
BTW, I'm actually so white and blonde that, while living in Portland, Oregon about 6 years ago, I was recruited by a guy that I thought was my friend (we worked together in a bar) to join a neo-nazi group.

Dude and his fat girlfriend were very sick. Tapes of Randy Weaver speaking to all his sick, ignorant little soldiers. Posters. Ruby Ridge and Waco. Sick stuff, man.

He got about 30 seconds into his pitch when I let him know how wrong he had judged me!!!! :mad:

BTW, Waco? Didn't they open up on the feds first. I mean before they set their own compound on fire?!?! :crazyeyes 'Nuf said!

First it doesnot take 400 heavy armed
Clinton SS to service than search warrient it only take two unarmed cops to do so. If I was to see 400 heavy armed assault gun carrying Clinton SS or Bush SS I would open fire
right as their have hostile tend.

The people in the Compound in Wacco
Texas didnot break any laws and the FBI (Federal Bureas of Idiot) are guilt of
cold blood murder.

Bill Clinton want to murder some christian.

Hilter orginate want to start world war 2 in either 1942 or 1944 when his military
built up would have been finish.
In Sep of 1939 the germany airforce test flew than jet aipplane that have than top speed of 300 mph but climb to 30 thousand feet in 3 minutes time which
hightly impress the airforce big shot as it took the Me Bf 109 anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes to get to 10 thousand feet. The germany airforce want to order this plane even thought it was slower than the Bf 109. The Air Force Commander in chief kill it as he thought the war would be over soon.

I read than book written by than England Major of SAC that if Gremany have invade England in the middle of july
of 1940 he would than very good change of success in the invadeion.

A lot has been said about this mod. Simply put, if you do not like it, or the thing it represents, don't play it.
This forum is to discuss "play" while using this mod. This is NOT a political arena or forum, nor is it a forum for discussing theological or sociological ideals. Stick to whether you can provide POSITIVE input to making this MOD better.
The website is not designed to promote the authors ideals. It is there, with appropriate warnings, to give an example of a MOD for use with a GAME. If you want, why not build a MOD specifically designed to root out such governemtns and wipe them out?! oooohhhh. It's called Civilization!

I dont get what is wrong with you people? Maybe bored or just colorful imaginations? A skilled modmaker creates a patch for those that wish to add the government FASCISM & Nazi Germany which are both important parts of history that didn't make it into the game. His page is obviously decorated with symbols connected to Fascism & Nazi Germany... He has many warnings on his page and even says that he is not a fascist on one... Yet one person still claims he is likely a fascist and this mod is somehow sickening? That the fact you can play as hitler and use fascism is somehow more evil than using ICBMS and starving your cities to increase production???... Very silly! Anyway, I would like to see the mod is excellent and integrates itself very well into the game, I enjoyed playing a long game of CIV3 as Germany with the patch, and I was being picked on by England, Zulu, Aztecs, and Russia... But when I got Panzer Tanks I used them in conjunction with France to take down their capital cities... FUN:) ITS JUST A GAME!!! Remember? It ISNT a reflection of real life, even if it attempts to be, the world doesnt work like this.

thank you! *clap clap clap*, its about f*ucking time someone said that!

Relax...good...now take a deep breath, slowly through the nose. Fill your lungs from the bottom up until they are fully expanded. Now, slowly and fluidly, exhale through the mouth. Repeat!...Feel any better? So tell me about your anger? What is really bothering you about this mod?

Your reactions seem humorous, though expected. We're dealing with a game about history, and what is history really about? Conquest, slaughter, slavery, tyranny, ect. Do you think that empires were established by nice people? This entire game is about people just like Hitler. And by the way, Hitler reflected the attitudes of a great deal of the European population during that time period. Can you name any dominant civilization that did not acheive its "greatness" through crushing the skulls of its enemies. Sure a few of the leaders on this game could qualify as "nice" people, but look at the history of those civilization and remember that history is written by the victors.

...oh, I see. You're not one of those "war-gamer" types who just goes around bashing heads for territory and reasources. No, you like to play Gandhi and try to make friends with everyone. Your only concern is for the happiness of you're people, and you've even created a mod to simulate hunger strikes when "evil" civilizations take over your pathetic hamlets. I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings? I sure didn't mean to...

Enough ego bashing for now (I really don't mean it anyway). Seriously though, I'm really glad someone was willing to create this mod. I don't think it took any real courage, just an enlightened attitude. People take things way too seriously. Many peoples' attitudes about "morality" and "evil" smack of the same "absolute right" and fascism of the very people they rail against. C'mon now, this is a game. I don't think that the author, or most people playing with this mod, "glorify" the actual leaders and governments that they are playing. Are you so close-minded, or mentally inflexable, that you can't separate a game from "reality," whatever that is.

Personally, I have a great deal of fun playing "evil" empires. I am, for the record, not a fascist; I don't think that PEOPLE should be governed at all. I am also not a racist, which would be rather difficult for me, as I quite often use the Vodou model of reality for many religious practices. Which, by the way, is made of predominantly "black" (in the African sense) entities. Those who thinks it matters, generally classify me as "white." None the less, I enjoy simulating the history of an empire with all of its gory details. I find myself unable to find any corrolation between what is going on in my game, and my "reality" outside of the game. Maybe, it's because I lack that ability to actually believe totally in anything, or because my brain, while fully capable of finding similarities between two very unlike things (such as civ 3 and the "real" Nazi Germany), I don't seem to have the ability to take it to the next level and "believe" that what I do with a fictional simulation of Hitler and Nazi Germany has anything to do with the "real" Hitler or Nazi Germany.

...And also, the graphics and music on the web page are great! Keep it up dude.

I've played this mod and i didn't see a problem with it. If you think about if you like it or not but Fascism is apart of the world's history and we can't change that. So it does need to be in this game because this game is about civilizations and Fascism is apart of a civilization.

The critism I have is the gameplay. Eventually, almost everyone(except America, England, and (France usually stays republic)) go fascist. Its not really the mods fault though. I think the AI is messed up, because if I am a democountry(england) and I go to war with germany, I take there city, I can keep it after starvation and resistance. If a facist country(germany) takes one of my cities, it razes it. I wouldnt know because I havent played a game without the patch!

I see your point wolfzane.

I don't think the patch is sick or wrong, as the author says:

"I believe that our most important mission is to make past history known correctly, to reflect on what should be reflected, to forget the hatred, to cooperate for man's happiness and the maintenance of the earth, and to teach these matters to the children of the next generation"

But I do think the site should be less "decorative".

But I do think the site should be less "decorative".

Bingo. Nothing wrong with the patch at all.

The site glorifies nazism, plain and simple.

I am quite familiar with it, from downloading the Civ2 fascist patch. I recommend the feint-hearted not go there.

This is a great patch. The only thing I don't like is that I can't load "jeeps" into transports. Also, I don't know about the rest of you, but before I downloaded this patch I was a Republican. After visiting the website, and playing as Germany, I consider myself an active member of national socialism. Anybody else with me. Maybe we can get Bill Gates to run for us. I have a poster of Hitler on my wall and am thinking of getting a tattoo like charles manson. Does this mean I can sue the modmaker? He ruined my life by making this patch and his website!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Mauer
This is a great patch. The only thing I don't like is that I can't load "jeeps" into transports. Also, I don't know about the rest of you, but before I downloaded this patch I was a Republican. After visiting the website, and playing as Germany, I consider myself an active member of national socialism. Anybody else with me. Maybe we can get Bill Gates to run for us. I have a poster of Hitler on my wall and am thinking of getting a tattoo like charles manson. Does this mean I can sue the modmaker? He ruined my life by making this patch and his website!!!!!!!!!!

Not really as people are getting tied of all these dumb lawsuit. The dumb woman who sue than fast food place for 10 million dollars because she slip hot coffee
on her lap while eating and drinking while driveing.

I'm pleased to see that there are some that are interested in more that labelling the game a white supremacy thing. Now, I've read a lot of books on history, but the thought of sitting here and arguing every itsy bitsy point over what Hitler and the fascists did, along with stating the the First fascists were Roman senators would be a waste of time. C'mon guys! We play the game, we laugh as we drop nukes, raze cities to the ground, fight wars for trite personal reasons, if any reason at all - COZ IT'S NOT REAL!!!
When Medieval war comes out I will again indulge in some genocide. But in real life (the bit where you get the food etc etc) I'm a nice guy...
My view is that it is a testament to the German people that they fought for as long as they did with the incompetant, biggoted idiots at the helm... Anyway, I'm going to go back and kill some french people now :)

Than Military historian and analasy did than study of Hilter vs Germany Hight Command in militaily stragic and decivion, Hilter was right 50 % of the time, the decivion to invade French in 1940, Nornay in 1940 where decise military action. The little Corparal Hilter won than Iron Cross in WW1 as than messager on the fornt line than job that need couage brain and gut to do.

HIs desicion NOT to attack the retreating French and British forces on the beaches of Normandy was a horiffic mistake - he could have crushed both of the armies - but he stopped, against the views of the Generals on the armies.
Hitler had guts, and he liked to gamble with high stakes, but he was no great tactician, as shown by the debacle of Stalingrad that cost Germany 600,000 men captured

Originally posted by Rory_20_uk
HIs desicion NOT to attack the retreating French and British forces on the beaches of Normandy was a horiffic mistake - he could have crushed both of the armies - but he stopped, against the views of the Generals on the armies.
Hitler had guts, and he liked to gamble with high stakes, but he was no great tactician, as shown by the debacle of Stalingrad that cost Germany 600,000 men captured

Right after WW2 there where many book written about how back Hilter was as Commander in Chief by his generals that very decide he make was wrong. All that Military Historia said was half the time Hilter make the correct dicide. The allies make many bad decide also , read or watch the moive than Bridge Too Far.

I found the website to be neutral, the Author explained that he wasn't a Fascist.. His mod was about Fascism, Mussolini was a puppet, Hirohito wasn't very notorious, so the obvious main character would be Adolf Hitler...

I, myself am a Fascist, but not a National Socialist.. I have nothing against Judeaism in specific, I'm simply overly patriotic and I believe that your Country comes first.. well, Second to God Amighty, of Course.

Originally posted by Rory_20_uk
HIs desicion NOT to attack the retreating French and British forces on the beaches of Normandy was a horiffic mistake - he could have crushed both of the armies - but he stopped, against the views of the Generals on the armies.
Hitler had guts, and he liked to gamble with high stakes, but he was no great tactician, as shown by the debacle of Stalingrad that cost Germany 600,000 men captured


From the time the European powers declared war apon Germany, Hitler attempted time and time again to find peace. I am no Neo-Nazi nor am I a sympathizer. It was very clear that Adolf Hitler had intentions of a German dominated Europe prior to the war. I believe the reason why Adolf did not give the order of attack was due in part of his continual attempts at peace. These attempts were ended soon after the air battles over London insued.

His belief was that if he spared the lives of those men that possible, Churchill would take the idea of peace or at least a Cease Fire into consideration. Seeing as how Adolf allowed those troops evacuation maybe he really wanted peace. Thank God Churchill was able to see what his real intentions were.

Originally posted by Rory_20_uk
Hitler had guts, and he liked to gamble with high stakes, but he was no great tactician, as shown by the debacle of Stalingrad that cost Germany 600,000 men captured

Where did you read this? In a russian history textbook? There were only something like 90,000 loyal germans left in the pocket after starvation, battle losses, suicides, desertions, evacuations etc when russia launched the final attack on the pocket. Minus the battle casualties after their last heroic but futile last stand and the remainder became pow's.

My two bits about the patch: I wouldn't play the game without it. What's a game about history without a key player like Hitler missing? There's nothing more cool than to see stacks of wehrmacht troops with panther and tiger tanks (from the unit graphics forum) going toe to toe with other countries. One time Germany declared war on me (peaceful, weak gandhi) and I got america and france to take them on. A stack of 135 american grunts, infantry and marines plus heaps of french infantry and tanks on another front advanced into Germany. Only about 10 heavily wounded american grunts and a few french units came back after the attack failed and peace was declared. Man did they get their butts kicked. It felt good.

The patch does have one big problem though. EVERY country becomes fascist which is irritatingly unrealistic. Like c'mon, 'fascist russia'??? Give me a break. And Hitler tried to sell me communism 'technology' if you can believe it. So the patch just needs a couple of tweeks to make it totally cool.

People will rather rewrite history to leave
out facts they donot like or painfull truth.
In the game Colonlation by Micropose they left out slaverly as their didnot like that fact. First off slaverly exist for thousand's of year and it is still taken place in the world even in America our Pirson system useing inmate to do work for low wages.
Some of our dumb anti-islam people
in america who want to ban Islam in our nation and go after Islam all over the world to destory it, it smack of religious holy war and crusade which
america will lose.

Wow. 15 pages of the same thing over and over again, everybody repeating arguments made by the posters before them :rolleyes:

I can't believe Wolfshanze still has the endurance to continue to attempt to bring reason to an inane discussion like this one became a long, long time ago.

Should I look forward to another 15? Seriously, this is retarded.

Originally posted by dannyevilcat
Wow. 15 pages of the same thing over and over again, everybody repeating arguments made by the posters before them :rolleyes:

Should I look forward to another 15? Seriously, this is retarded.


Actually reading through the 15 pages of nonsense is even more retarted. Some of us have a life you know. :rolleyes: My post above was my first time on this thread and I only read the last few posts so I may have repeated some points mentioned by others.

Originally posted by dannyevilcat
Wow. 15 pages of the same thing over and over again, everybody repeating arguments made by the posters before them :rolleyes:

I can't believe Wolfshanze still has the endurance to continue to attempt to bring reason to an inane discussion like this one became a long, long time ago.

Should I look forward to another 15? Seriously, this is retarded.

First there are too many politcal correct supid people walking around in America today and alot of then work in Hollysupid(hollywood) land.

Originally posted by unscratchedfoot



Actually reading through the 15 pages of nonsense is even more retarted. Some of us have a life you know. :rolleyes: My post above was my first time on this thread and I only read the last few posts so I may have repeated some points mentioned by others.

I didn't have to read through it all (Indeed I haven't), but I was there at the start of the thread, checked back every once in a while, and then, for the fisrt time in months came back, and BEHOLD! The same points are still being made!

I'm not calling people posting retarded. But there's long since been anything new to add to it.

Forgive me if someone in this thread already mentioned this as there are just too many posts to read but isn't despotism pretty much fascism? both government had a lot of corruption, both were under the dictatorship of one man, etc.

Fasctism isnot really one man rule as than Despotism. Fasctism is really than orgination that have than single leader who share power with other member of the group. Today societry is far too complex for one man to understand or run. The Germany Navy ran it own operation on than day to day basic without asking Hilter to decide on very
small thing.
Enen in than free societry some intrulion like fire department and police

To add to my past post due to computer acting up.
Even in than free societry some instrulion like fire department and police
department are run on than non-demeonacy line of command.

Originally posted by Barenziahlover
To add to my past post due to computer acting up.
Even in than free societry some instrulion like fire department and police
department are run on than non-demeonacy line of command.
Dude, you need spell check, bad. :confused: And quit using the word THAN!!!:rolleyes: Try THE, A or AN, instead.

You cannot have 3000 firefighter at than big fire in a major city detateing for three
days on the best way to putout the fire, by the time they decide how to put off the fire half the city would have burn down. That why they have Fire Marchael
and Fire Chiefs. They are advive by than small group of excert on fighting certain type of fires like chemical fire. electrical powerplant fire.

Originally posted by Barenziahlover
You cannot have 3000 firefighter at than big fire in a major city detateing for three
days on the best way to putout the fire, by the time they decide how to put off the fire half the city would have burn down. That why they have Fire Marchael
and Fire Chiefs. They are advive by than small group of excert on fighting certain type of fires like chemical fire. electrical powerplant fire.

What the hell are you trying to say?:lol:

Who knows, think it's typed in jibberish or some other foreign language. Maybe he's from Jibberjabberland.

oh my god lol, where do some of you guys get this stuff.


Hitler was a good stratigist??
First hitler ignored his generals and failed to surround the retreating british and french troops, THEN he loses the battle of britain by losing his temper and ordering the Luftwaffe to stop hitting the english airfields and to hit London itself.

And then he goes and loses the war completely when he again loses his temper, this time with Yugoslavia, and postpones the war on Russia for 4 weeks. this led to the German forces getting hit by the Russian winter within sight of Moscow.

They grew more numorous as Hitler grew more and more egotistical, and gave himself complete power over every aspect of the armed forces.


And someone said Hitler desired peace after he invaded france....LOL. Its a fact that this wasnt the case. Hitlers letters and the notes from his meetings with his generals show that as soon as Britain surrended (he was sure they would after france fell) he was going to invade Russia. Hitler was actually dreading the possibility that Churchill would ask for a ceasefire. Hitler would then have had to find an excuse to refuse it.

And when someone above said Hitler wanted peace, he was actually making plans to split up europe, and indeed the rest of the world, with Japan and Italy.


oh um, about the patch, it looks like its abit unbalanced, but saying it shouldnt be in there is just dumb.

How to get 303 posts on your patch or modpack? Easy just throw H-I-T-L-E-R in there somewhere and all the internet KKKers come to say their piece and all the internet commies come out to feel like they are doing something right by arguing with racists, as if it is productive to convince the mere 20,000 people who spend their life on the internet being racists (out of like 25,000,000 internet users) that they are wrong :P

He He.... I love MR. T. AND REMEMBAH! ALWAYS DRINK YO MEE-OKE!

Jibbah Jabbah

Originally posted by Neomega
How to get 303 posts on your patch or modpack? Easy just throw H-I-T-L-E-R in there somewhere and all the internet KKKers come to say their piece and all the internet commies come out to feel like they are doing something right by arguing with racists, as if it is productive to convince the mere 20,000 people who spend their life on the internet being racists (out of like 25,000,000 internet users) that they are wrong :P

He He.... I love MR. T. AND REMEMBAH! ALWAYS DRINK YO MEE-OKE!

Jibbah Jabbah

If I was you I would be very careful on whom you than racist or commie you might be sue for libeal or slander polictal correct nut.

Is this patch a joke? If you want Fascism in the game, fine, go ahead and add it. But be realistic about it! Keep the game play balanced, though!

Did anyone think that a government that has the trade bonus like Republic/democracy, the same corruption of republic, NO war weariness, gets some free units, and is also immune to Steal technology would still keep the game balanced? :rolleyes:

Hey, if everyone is so ticked off about having Hitler in the game as Germany, why not play the Americans and kick his sorry ass?

erm can the Civ3 fas. patch be compatiable with v1.29f ?

mine is bot 1.21f :(

Originally posted by redhulkz
erm can the Civ3 fas. patch be compatiable with v1.29f ?

mine is bot 1.21f :(

i mean mine is not 1.21f

When is the fascist patch going to be made compatible with PTW?

who ever knows the answer to my qn pls help .

Q: is there a lower chance of defection under fascist govt ?

my city always defect to AI, i thought communism's iron rule can stop that but i think i'm wrong. so how about fascism?

Upset that HITLER is in a patch?

How many died in the "Cultural Revolution"?

Uncle Joe, the Man of Steel (Stalin), is unsurpassed in ruthlessness and body count.

Alexander the Great did what to resisting cities?

The Mongols were an enlightened bunch.

ETC.....

DISCLAIMER: While I have read many historical books and other stuff, my memory isn't the best and not all of what I state may be completely factual. However, I can assure you most of it is.

First, I'd like to state what I personally think the Fascism model of Government should be like in the Civilization 3 game.

Military Police: same as Communism

Reasoning: Uprisings were usually quelled or kept low-profile by Fasicst governments.

Draft Rate: 1 higher than Communism

Reasoning: More than any other of the government types represented in the game, Fascism mobilized people for war (japan and germany in particular)

Trade: same as Democracy/Republic

Reasoning: As stated in other posts, the fascist economy was a mix of capitalism and socialism, and there was some free enterprise, and some ownership by the state. No reason for a penalty here.

Worker Rate: normal

Reasoning: production under Fascism was decent, but not as efficient as it could have been.

Corruption: same as Republic

Reasoning: The tight control over production helps balance the fact that large amounts of actual production were siphoned off for other purposes. But not enough to put it in the same class as Communism or Democracy.

Free Units: 1/2/4 (town, city, metropolis)

Reasoning: This is more representative of forced contributions than anything, but isn't comparable to the support given by a monarchy, or the communal support of communism.

War Weariness: none

Reasoning: this government was made for total war, discontent was squelched by the police.

Spies/Diplomats: regular for spies, lower for diplomats

Reasoning: the intelligence gathering of the major fascist states wasn't as bad as commonly believed, but alot of times they refused to believe their own intelligence. Diplomats are lower because most fascists weren't interested in negotiating.

I'm not going to get into the resistances and such.

Assimilation: 1%

Reasoning: They poorly assimilated other cultures, didn't want much to do with any except those who were similar (IE english, scandanavian in the case of the germans). The japanese though were more inclusive on this, not by much though.

Immune to Propaganda.

Reasoning: Most people under fascism had true faith in their leaders, at least out in the open, and were easily swayed.

Hurried production: forced labor

Reasoning: obvious.

Advantages over Democracy: No war weariness, immune to propaganda, free units, draft more units, military police.

Disadvantges compared to Democracy: Less worker production, less assimiliation, higher corruption, worse diplomacy.

Advantages over Communism: higher draft rate, higher trade, immune to propaganda.

Disadvantages compared to Communism: worse spies, diplomats; lower assimilation, less free units, higher corruption.

This clearly makes fascism a good alternative to Democracy and Communism, while giving it obvious disadvantages compared to each.

Now for the historical arguments.

There is not a single major culture or race or group of people in history who has not committed mass-murder on another such culture or race or group of people. A few examples:

Romans typically enslaved conquered peoples, or forced them into the Roman Empire.

The Huns and Mongols are well-known for their ruthlessness when dealing with those who failed to submit.

The Spanish Inquistion (and other Inquistions in other countries, such as Portugal or the various states of Germany and Italy that existed at the time) killed millions of "heretical" non-believers, mostly Jews and Muslims.

Stalin in the mid to late 30's caused the starvation of as many as 20 million russians.

Since europeans started to colonize the americas, the subjugation, elimination, enslavement, and pushing into undesired areas of the native people has been widespread and common among almost all countries who have had or have control over part of the americas. Examples would be the Spanish enslavement of the natives, their slaughtering of the Aztecs and Incas, and the American wars against the Native Americans in the 1700's/1800's.

Almost all major civilizations that existed before 1800 used widespread slavery as a source of labor (serfdom was a form of slavery).

While 90% of all war-related deaths since 1700 have occurred in the 20th century, that still leaves a good-sized 10% for the years 1700 to 1900.

The United States surely holds the record for most deaths in the shortest amount of time with the dropping of the Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Genocides have occurred in the last 30 years in Serbia/Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Cambodia, Iraq, and Sudan, among other places. (the one in Cambodia in particular, killed over 20% of the country's TOTAL population in a matter of 2 to 3 years)

The American Civil War fought over the institution of slavery (and preservation of the union) caused over 600,000 battle deaths. Most of the men who signed the Declaration of Independence and Constitution were slaveholders or believed slavery was morally correct.

Slavery is mentioned in several of the World's religious books and beliefs, and war in some religions is said to be correct. (Islam for the latter, Christianity is an example of the former)

The American/British bombing of Germany caused over 1 million civilian deaths, and as mentioned in another post, well over 100,000 in one bombing of Dresden alone.

Any war that has ever occurred with any significance, has caused needless deaths, and is murder. Each death in war, is murder, no matter who is killed (solider, civilian, doesn't matter). [I am NOT a pacifist and am not condoning the outlawing of wars as a means of diplomacy, wars have always occurred and probably always will)

There are many more examples of murder or other human sufferings I can quote, but I've already written too much. My point is while most of us may disagree with Fascism being right, the point is it happened, it occurred, and it cannot be denied. And its form of government committed just as much murder as the next. They were no more right than the United States or others in their mass-murders.

As for the Germans lack of technological development, that has been covered by others, but I'd like to point out that jet fighters, rockets, the snorkel (for subs), and other technological innovations were made by the German scientists during WWII. German scientists first split the atom in 1936, which started atomic research funding for other countries as well. Also, no American or British tank ever was comparable to the later version of German tanks, especially the Panther D/G and the Tiger I and II series of tanks. Only the Soviets (another nation quoted as having no science) were comparable, with their KV 1/2 and the T-34 series of tanks. German anti-tank guns and fighters were also much superior to the American/British versions till the end of the war. Japanese fighters (in particular the Zero) also were superior for a time compared to American ones. The germans also created the first "flying bombs", the V1 and the V2. Precursors to the current ICBM's and cruise missiles.

The german unemployment feat was one which has few parallels in history. In 3 years it was virtually wiped out, and while military conscription and loss of jobs by jews was a good part of the result, overlooked is the massive public works projects done by Germany during the 1930's (including superhighways). While the future result of such was disastrous for the rest of the world, the result at the time was an amazing feat for any nation (it took mobilization for the United States to get out of the Great Depression, and WWII did the rest).

The United States during WWII put into "concentration camps" 110,000 American-born citizens of japanese descent.

Think that about covers it. Sorry if some points were brought up elsewhere, I don't have the time/patience/need to read through all the pages on this thread, I scanned the first few and then posted this.

And I am an American, and happy to be living here, I just try to see history and historical perspectives from all sides, not just the very highly skewed one given in most textbooks and by most people living in "democratic" countries. As stated above in several places, just because a country is democratic doesn't mean its any better in the mass-murder department than a fascist or communist one.

Feel free to express your opinion as I have mine, just try to back up your reasoning as I have by facts or interpretation of facts. I am not nor ever will be Fascist, but their point of view should be respected as any other would be.

the website is a crime

I am speachless

I dont care that Hitler is in the game...its just the way some dumb people associate with Germany.

Well, Americans are in their too and english as well, or shouldnt they be just one civ??

English Americans simply DESTROYED native americans, put them in reservates and treat them as dogs! Dont talk with germans about genocid since you english-americans know that for sure better as we do...

Thanks ufftyuwe, now the thread is on the front page for another month. :rolleyes:

"why Fascism? To answer your first thought... no, I'm not a Fascist, nor do I think it's "cool" or any such thing, I just can't stand political correctness, especially when it attempts to alter or ignore history, and especially when it comes at the cost of minimalizing the impact Fascism had on the 20th Century."

This was taken directly from the fascist patch site. Maybe it's time for some so-called "tolerant" people to think a bit before making quick judgements (or optionally learning how to read).

I think the patch is great. Why? Because Civ 3 is a historical game and fascism is definetly and undeniyably a big part of history. The game is not complete until you have this mod. 5 stars. And tho those douzens of people who don't even seem to have the slightest clue what "fascism" really stands for: I'm not a fascist because I say this.

EDIT: And notice also that a "No-hitler" patch exists for those who don't like truthful history.

Originally posted by Viridovix
I agree. The mod is not only in bad taste but also poorly models a historically insignificant form of government.
Viridovix

Jeez, its JUST A GAME! And Fascism certainly isn't "historically insignificant." It started WW2.

Reading about this site I decided to go and visit it myself. I must say it made me laugh. The person who made this site is not a facist, he is just somebody having a laugh. He claims to be somebody trying to make people politicly correct, but he is trying to do something much better. He is trying to do just the oppisite.
How many times have we heard politicians lying and being deceitful just to look good to "the people". He is trying to poke fun at this. To many of you his methods may make you sick, but it made me laugh (and thats all thats important in the universe).
To those of you that beleive that facism wasn't historicly significant I warn you. Those who are ignorant to the past are condemed to repeat it in the future.
I look forward to trying out the mod.

Originally posted by Cilpot
First of all, he didnt rush that much to make it since it has existed for many years for civ 2...

Second of all, it makes me sick that people prefer to be politically correct instead of historically correct.. And the govenment type facism is not a favoured government type... Its quite similar to fundamentalism (wich has been removed)..

I agree that the pic of Hitler can be disturbing, though, but I dont belive that the author of the mod is a fascist himself.. Just someone trying to provoke politically correct people;)

True historical accuracy must take precedent over political corectness. What's next, the abandonment of communism in the game.

Some people are f'ing idiots.
Anything relating even slightly to Hitler or racism is automatically targeted. Why? This is just a game... Don't like it? Don't use it. Simple.
I'm sick of all these people trying to deny history; it happened, get over it. Once again, don't lke it? Don't use it.
Don't like Hitler? Don't download the patch with him in it, OR download it and kick his arse.

i think the sight is wierd and i won't download it because it reminds me of white supremacy( i AM white, and proud of it, but ALL races are equal). however, i do think that Civ3 should have the Fascist governtment in it.

i fill sick to see people can apologize fascism, i dont think this patch is just a mod but ...

Who has apologized for fascism here?

I feel sick to see people getting scared when they something that DOES exist, something that IS real and something you have to deal with in real life as well. Yes, far-rightist political parties still exist, which I find unfortunate but I also find it to be true so there really is no need to stick earplugs in your ear and close your eyes in front of it.

Fight against fascism? HELL YEA! But be scared of it? Nnnno. You can go crying to them as loud as you want that "fascism is bad" but they won't go away.

Civ without fascism is like a fantasy world where everybody is happy and nobody wants to hurt each other. Wanna live in a fantasy world? Go ahead and ruin the rest of your life.

(Yes, I do believe that people who hate this patch so much live in a fantasy world where they think nothing can hurt them. Get a grap to the real life for a while, will ya)

Hmm. Since this mod, in spite of being touted as a "General" fascist patch includes so many Nazi elements, you SHOULD call it the "National Socialism" patch. Most governments classed as "Fascist" were generally conservative in nature and benefited the elites of society more than the average citizen. Hitlers unique and deadly brand of Fascism promised to totally remake society and was in many ways as revolutionary as Bolshevism was - he did promise to create an egalitarian society for all citizens of german blood, not just the rich industrialists. After reading all the combative posts on this thread, I just had to throw my two cents in :)

Sheesh, I cannot believe that since 11/2001 people are still whining about this parch. I used it in Civ2 and it was my preferred form of government because of the financial superiority and control of the people it allowed. I have never used it for Civ3 because I use the DyP mod and the Republic better suits my play style now.

If you don't like, don't use it. If you want to use it, do so, but hurry before the politically correct crybabies seek to take away more freedoms in order to protect sensitive feelings. It amazes me that people can play a game in which millions die in the course of most empires and then complain about this.

The thing is to learn from history and do not allow it to repeat itself, but THIS IS A @#$@#$@ GAME!!! Now I feel better :D

Thought I better edit this and say sorry in case I hurt anyones sensitive feelings, NOT! Look, have fun and enjoy the game and play it how you want, if you don't like the way other people think, that is okay, God made us individuals to think for ourselves, and not for others to tell us how to think.

Well, I liked the Fascist patch for civ2 also - my point to the above post was: make it more generalized. In CTP you had a real Fascist Gov. that came built into the game, with a Fascist unit also - rather than going to the trouble of putting in Hitler as leader (this kind of thing is strictly a flavor enhancement) someone should recreate a generic fascist unit, and perhaps a couple of others as well - some buildings unique to the government would be nice also, but I didn't see any options in the editor for setting up anything like this - making units/buildings unique to government type. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

you focalise only on nazi govt.But Nazi's govt isn't the most representative fascist regime it was really an exception.The typical fascist govt is a nationalist militaristic government where the army or a militarised party take the power to restore order in the country fascists aren't alway a racial or international polity.If the country is industrialised the regime is totalitarian and if the country is under developed the regime is only authoritarian(corruption and lack of ressource for a good repressive system).The typical fascist dictatorship was in italy with Mussilonni or in Spain with Franco or in South America(Pinochet,Strausnner,Duvalier) and today also in Africa and middle east(Khadafi) .After dicuss with politics
we think the spies must be regular because there aren't real network in foreign.
Fascist govt must have the commerce standart bonus( fascism recognize and private propriety free entreprise)
corruption must be rampant like despotism(the official are all powerfull and choosen only for their loyalism)
assimilation must be bad because of the nationalism
resistance against propaganda must be good against communism,republic(dictatorship born alway from the failure of republic)but must be bad against democraty
moblisation rate of 4(patriotism and militias)
free support for all units(militaristic govt)
paid labor(only in germany there was important work camp in Italy they were really tiny(5000prisonners in Lipari islands)

You should try this govt for a short military aggression but not for many tour because the cost is very important

You've hit it on on the head, Reynard. Most people DO focus only on the Nazi government for Fascism. I like your ideas for the government attributes, also.

this is an interesting little debate, i think i will throw my 2 cents in.

I am going to download this mod, but i have downloaded kino's one as it is more balanced.


I think the problem is to do with the website, because if it is about facism being a playable gov, then you guys dont use it and please dont force your biggoted opinions on others.
because for a start this is only a game, and it is a representive on human history. and nearly all other goverments are available.
the fundamentalist gov in civ2 could have represented facism or a state like iran. while there is democracy in the game and in real life, it is not the only gov out there, communism is around but only two modern govs, surely not.

Further facism is not just nazism. All facist dont believe in racial supremacy. I have done some reading on modern facism for a debate in college, and modern facism is just a right wing believe. it tends to be highly supportitive of capitalism, and is pro-military power to defend its interests. it is not about racial mastery.
the only thing that verges on that is loathing of socialists.
The best example of a modern facist nation is Isreal, the Jewish Nation.

P.S.
communism is in the game and has seen more people die under it and cause more wars than facism. Stalin ordered the deaths of 30million russians

Israel is not fascist. They are a democracy that needs to defend themselves or there will be no more busses. Israel is actually very peacefully if you think about, after thousands of years of discrimination and genocide against them they are willing to make peace with the Palestinians who are just the descendants of the Phillistines but Arafat refuses to Israel while begging the UN and USA to help him.

Besides CIV is just a GAME, if you haven't noticed. I go back 'n forth between govs just for fun, I've been comrade and king ten times more than I've been president or consul but I am strongly capitalist. Just stick to the game and be happy the Fascism is included in the core game of C3C.

@Packer-Backer / @garner

I am not sure it is wise to discuss real politics for a game mod. It is not the place nor the spirit. This could just evolve in infinite debate .. my 2 euros

I joined this forum so that I could put my two senses in about this topic. Frankly there were TWO types of Fascism in Europe throughout it's existance in the early 20th century. There was the plain Italian/Spanish Fascism and then the extreme Nazi Fascism otherwise known as Nazism. From the few responses that I have read thus far...you guys are all refering to Nazism instead of Fascism alone.

People I just have to give you a piece of mind to let you know that leaders are those who make governments good or bad and not the governments themselves. Every government has had it's share of attrocities no matter what they are or how they have been claimed to be the best and etc. If none of you didn't know this...Fascist Spain aided in rescuing Jews from the clutches of Nazi Germany. Why was this so...? The Spanish leader absolutely HATED HITLER and would not support the S.O.B. in slaughtering innocent people including his own Spanish Jews. Now you give some thought about Fascism instead of Nazism and realize that it isn't nothing but sheer evil because Spain proved that Fascism could have a decent side with the right kind of ruler. It was only Mussolini and bastard Hitler who gave all of us this sickened impression of Fascism.

I don't support Fascism at all but then again if any of you guys wanted to...why don't you just create a make believe Democtractic-Fascisti government to be a superior and more promising government than Fascism alone? Frankly I can't just leave out Fascism from Civ III simply because of what Hitler turned it into with HIS NAZISM. If you guys wanted to...just make a more beautiful mix-breed government like Democratic-Socialism or something! Just remember...leaders are what make governments good or bad...NOT the governments themselves...

-Elite Soldier

Ugh.

Like so many other people, I have registered specifically to respond to this thread...

First of all, I use the Fascist patch in Civ2 as my standard game. I think it's a good mod, many excellent ideas (some of which seem to have actually been worked into Civ3). I also think in the civ2 patch, the gov't form is balanced. I also think, however, that it overstrengths Fascist units so I toned them down for my play... whatever...

From what I've read of the Civ3 patch, it sounds unbalanced. I'll design my own Fascist gov't form, thanks.

Now on to topics of political correctness....

You know what? The website disturbed me when I first went there. I'm under the impression that while Steve Strayer may not be a Fascist or a racist, he probably admires the Nazis... The site reeks of such admiration... But I'm not into "boycotting" the patch, or into flaming Strayer. Just openly discussing our impressions.

Finally, let's get REALLY politically correct, let's get down to business.... How do you feel about Fundamentalism as a gov't form? Guess what? It's f$#&ing RACIST. Representing arabs as crazy fanatics, how wonderful. I don't care if it was racially sanitised or not, it still played on stereotypes of muslim extremism. That's exactly why it's GONE from Civ3: it's racist. And lame, to boot.

And as for "fascist governments".... It can easily (and pretty convincingly if you marshal the facts together) be argued that the good old UsofA beats Hitler hands down for brutality when it comes to their foreign policy... George Bush Sr. and Ronald Reagan are (unconvicted) war criminals. GB Jr. might be too... So let's not just pick on Nazis and Stalinists here for their repression...

Personally, I'm more upset that they took the Statue of Liberty and the Eiffel Tower out as wonders... And we need CANADIAN wonders -- like the CN Tower and West Edmonton Mall... What's with the predominantly Euro/American-centric stuff, sheesh? ;)

My too bitz worth...

Not to freak you out but I can understand how Steven Strayer admires the Nazis... It's not exactly what they did but it's the government itself and the false impression you get from it. That ultra-nationalism was very appealing to Germans as it is to myself and most likely Steven Strayer...

Nazism made Germans feel inviciple and really superior to other cultures... That is why I want a "National Socialism" goverment (Renaming Fascism and tweaking the government a bit to reflect it.) I want that ultra-nationalism because even though it's seen as "bad"...it stirs up your civilization like "We love the King Day" every turn and your citzens proudly work adding to production and trade. This may be VERY theoretical but then again Nazi Germany has some stories to tell before WWII granted any of you can see what I see when looking at it.

People I know, want to keep dismissing Fascism/Nazism/National Socialism and saying how the communists and Allies beat Germany to a pulp. People...Nazi Germany was POISED to win WWII but it was with the failed Battle of Britain and invasion of the Soviet Union that lead Germany to it's ultimate defeat. It's scarey to even consider the results had Germany taken Britain and then launched it's war on Russia...

Maybe I am getting ahead of myself but please try to understand where I am comming from and where Steven Strayer is comming from....somewhere in the clouds lol!

Oh yeah...read this, it might be interesting!
http://www4.stormfront.org/posterity/ns/stlook.html

-Elite Soldier

:crazyeye:
I like this Mod ,it gives more dimension to the game ,it's a part of OUR history wether you like it or not ,forget about WWII ,we live in the 21st century now (forget about WWI ,Napoleon ,Atilla The Hun ,Ghengis Khan etc, etc, etc.).It's history now! Members of my family were killed by Fascists/Nazis (I'm of mixed race,considered a no no by fascist /nazi governments) get a grip on life it's just a bloody game.I play as a fascist and against fascism ,it's fun ,no one gets killed for real! Brits invented concentration camps for the Boers/Afrikaans (20th century) ,don't you just hate us! I think many of you who are against this mod either have no sense of real history or you guys/girls have too much time on your hands (Ok Hitlers recent history and abhorent in the extreme ,but I've got Family ancesters that fought against Napoleans tyranny-Fascism? get it yet!I'm English and we despise the French but I wouldn't object to a mod about Napolean!! Iwouldn't mind playing as him either) ,you say your disturbed by the regalia of fascism etc ,remember you have access to media more than any other generation ,how about finding out imformation about your so called "Heroes" like Alexander or Ceaser they were just or more ghaslty than Hitler (i.e. Invaders ,Genocide,Discrimination) it's just that it's so far in the past it's ok now?(Hollywood) I don't usually post messages but the way that you objectors want to bury the recent past but glory in the ancient doesn't add up .
All in all it's History!:crazyeye:

What a way to put things into perspective Hydromac! Way to go! (Applause)

-Elite Soldier

No worry's Elite Soldier ,after all it's only a game and a very good one at that!
CHEERS!!:)

Yes it is a very good game...just waiting for that Dell XPS to come so that I can get started on it! *Cheers back at ya pal!*

-Elite Soldier

In old c-64 times,in my school-class,i remember,a game called something like 'hitler-diktator' existed,intended to draw young people's attention towards fascism,where you could send your Gestapo jews-hunting and other terrible things.

That was bad,this isn't.
It just adds another mass-murderer(great leader),except gandhi,to this really great game

Exactly right!Nagelfetisch,but in The Game Ghandi can be quite a war mongering bugger!:lol:

Indeed:D :lol: :lol: :cry:

well you can have fascist fun in Conquests which I guess will render this thread a tad obsolete :p

Not if you own a Mac:cry:

I have read barely any of this thread (I thought there would be a hundred responses to my post a month ago but no, good) but to blame the US for the Indian "genocide" is outrageous. It was mostly the settlers under the "crown" of England, France, Spain, what-have-you and you must face it, communism is worse than facism or despotism. Hitler did less to the small ethnicities than Stalin, who killed his own pureblood Russians! Now for the big guns:

@Theorybrat - Ronald Reagen didn't kill enough of you dirt f*cking commies and George Sn. didn't either. W is doing a great job at killing off the f*cking Muslims and scarying the damn North Koreans so much that their pants are brown. There are some facts about Islam you can't deny, the Koran/Quran clearly states that you cannot be a Muslim and be a friend of a Christian or Jew. It's not racist and Sid Meier or any other game programmer just included it as a government because it adds to the gameplay. You dirty rotten commies are jealous satanists. I have a lot of work to do so I can't get to involved here but face it theorybrat, you, your "comrades", and Imams are the most ignorant, bloodhthirsty, inferior beings on the planet. You can't call me a racist for that because communism is not mostly in one race, and I don't blame all Arabs because I know a few Christian Arabs who have seen, up close and personal, Islamic attacks. The father of my friend was an Arab and had a children's clinic in Egypt and it was fire-bombed just because they didn't see him at one of three nearby mosques, so it was possible that he was a Muslim and just went to a different mosque but because he knew English he was automatically a "western infidel and servant of the great satan". If I get banned and you other commies don't, I'll use my angry fonts! :lol: :p

-The Indian Genocide is one of the sad chapters in American History,there are also glorious ones.
-Hitler also killed his own pureblood germans,the german jews,gays,politicians,....He killed less people than Stalin,does that fact make him better?
-Blaming all Muslims is like blaming all Jews,all Christians etc. or saying that the people of France are horny all the time.

Barbarism knows no Race nor Colour.

Yes...barbarism knows no race nor color but this can't be applied to governments because it is the barbarians who run them that make these horrible things happen. We can't simply shun Fascism/Nazism/National Socialism just because of one little prickle piss named Adolf Hitler who was also responsible for the deaths of around 6 million people...give or take a few...

Germany's government wasn't to blame for the evil...the leader was, so why do we give reasons to NOT have this government...and the reason is the holocaust and so much more. I don't get it...

-Elite Soldier

I'm saying that the guy who runs the website doesn't probably mean to make you like Fascism or hitler,so:USE IT!

Barbarism knows no race nor colour and yes,no governments,that's what i meant to say.

Germany's "government"was to blame for the evil,because hitler didn't run and organize everything by his own,in fact,he has never been to a concentration camp.

I remember a show on german tv,there,a celebrity said that he remembers an incident,where a woman paid,let's say,1 Reichsmark,(can't remember the exact sums), for the transportation of her husband to the concentration camp,where he got killed lateron,and got some money back,because she paid too much.

yes,the holocaust is no reason not to have this government,but the holocaust being part of the game would be extremely problematic.

Now WHO in their right of mind would ACTUALLY want a holocaust in Civ III?! That is down right sickening...but so is having a social purge for communist states... ICK!

-Elite Soldier

Hitler's admirers perhaps would want that in the game.

As i mentioned in an earlier post of mine,there were a few nazi games out there when i was young and i'm sure there still are,but i don't wanna know.:mad:

Well I guess if you wanted to have it for your RULING sake then fine but I sure as hell wouldn't want to torture my civilization sims even though they AREN'T real. I think of them as real cyber beings and I just couldn't target and eliminate religious groups or whole peoples like the Nazis and Stalinist Russia.

-Elite Soldier

Yeah,me too

:)

-Elite Soldier

About Hitler: He may have killed some Germans because their were plotting against him, but what was weird about the gay killing thing was that Hitty himself might have been gay! Maybe eliminating the competition to keep his boyfriends? :lol: But Stalin killed not just his high ranking officers, but his loyal lieutenants and captains for no reason beyond being psychotic, and he picked off a lot more people for no reason, even if Hitler's reason was wrong he still killed less and didn't turn on his allies like Mussolini. He only invaded Italy when Mussolini lost most of his power.

Second about Indian genocide: It is a one-sided story and a huge exageration, if you lived back then you would know what some of the tribes did and what the soldiers were doing to help some of the locals. One thing some of the tribes liked was filleting (actually cutting them up while they were alive) children infront of their parents, sometimes eating the flesh in front of the dieing victim. You would support the pacifying (that is the correct term) if only you had a relative die like that!

Third about Islam: Blaming all Christians and Jews for what? A couple of steriotype non-religious Jews or the Ku Klux Klan who are denounced by all true Christians. The Imams refuse to fully deounce the terrorism because the Koran clearly says to kill as many Christians and Jews as possible whenever possible and that you cannot be a Muslim and be the friend of a Christian or Jew.

I wrote this all last night but my dialup disconnected as I hit the submit reply button. BTW: Picking on a religious sect is different from picking on an ethnicity, a religion is a decision on your own and you can't be born into a religion, so you can't blame Milosevic or somebody for picking on Muslims but you can for picking on Croats or Bosnians who were not Muslims.

Originally posted by Packer-Backer
Third about Islam: Blaming all Christians and Jews for what? A couple of steriotype non-religious Jews or the Ku Klux Klan who are denounced by all true Christians.

Your ignorance is really scary.

Originally posted by Packer-Backer
The Imams refuse to fully deounce the terrorism because the Koran clearly says to kill as many Christians and Jews as possible whenever possible[...]

Obviously you haven't read the Quran and now you are insulting people with lies about it.

About Hitler:Hitler's reason WAS wrong and it's wrong saying Hitler is better than Stalin,because Stalin killed more people.

Indian Genocide:Interesting,but what did the soldiers do to the Indians and no,i wouldn't support that if i had a relative die like that,because you can't again-good-make a bad thing with a bad thing and concerning murder in no case.

About Islam:Because you say that Imams are the most ignorant, bloodthirsty, inferior beings on the planet,would be the same if you said that all priests were a##holes,because a few of them are paedophil.

P.S.:Reading the bible,you may come to many different conclusions,probably also true with the tora,the koran,etc.

Closing the thread before this turns really ugly. If you want to debate politics, then take it to OT.