SGOTM1-Persia Team X [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

AlanH

Apr 07, 2004, 11:32 AM

Hi Capt.

No AW experience anywhere then? Well, we can treat is as a learning experience, I guess, or we can think of another option to go for.

I'd still like to have a go at AW. I've been getting more and more aggressive in my recent games, so AW would be a logical next step. How about multiple victory conditions as a target as well? Conquest plus Spaceship? Conquest plus Culture? All three? I'm assuming diplomacy doesn't really mix with AW. This will play to mixed strengths in the team, giving the builders work to do while the warmongers can deal with the conquest. It'll also prolong the game a bit if we're not just going for a fast military victory.

A few other thoughts:

Re the start, we have deer and a BG already. There are several tiles all around that could be coast or they could be desert or flood plain. Moving wouldn't necessarily take us away from coast, and I'm not sure there'd be much to move for. Don't discount worker to deer forest as a first move. We can clear it for 10 shields in a few turns as we're industrious, and if we can find some fresh water nearby we'll have one extra fpt.

Or how about a settler move north to try for an early Colossus after an initial settler? I haven't looked at the save yet, so I don't know where we are on the minimap.

Our starting techs are Bronze and Masonry. Warning: I tend to avoid building defensive units as far as possible, so for me bronze is only a stepping stone to iron. Masonry is usually quite useful for early trading, and I s'pose we could go for the Pyramids once we have a few cities.

For AW we'll need iron and horses as soon as possible. As our UU is early, prioritising chariots/horses will defer our golden age until we have some infrastructure to take advantage of it. I'd be surprised if the Japanese are nearby, so we might want to fast track the Wheel.

In AW, as we are not allowed to remain at peace for one inter-turn and breaking peace deals is a no-no I assume pointy stick research is out? If so I guess we only get to trade for techs on our first meeting with each civ. After that we are on our own. Maybe we need to get to the Great Library as a matter of urgency, either by building it or taking it.

We'd better be playing vanilla as that's why I deserted the Staff PtW team. Otherwise my Mac and I will be looking for another place to hide :)

zamint3

Apr 07, 2004, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by AlanH

Re the start, we have deer and a BG already.

That's fur I think. :crazyeye:

I would say : move worker to BG, and if there is nothing, settle on the spot.

Research: Maybe we should start with one of the cheaper ones and hope for some luck with the goody huts.

Contacts : I really don't know, should we go for early contacts/war or should we try and delay it for as long as possible.

Warfare: Lets make lots of archers early on and try to eliminate our nearest neighbor(s). I agree, we don't want the golden age to soon.

It all depends on our neighbors, should we ask if F10 is allowed?

I haven't played vanilla for a long time, but its not much different from PTW or?

Are we playing the roster as it stands? Surely the X-man himself should start :goodjob:

mad-bax

Apr 07, 2004, 02:57 PM

F10 is allowed.

I wonder if Alanh looks like Xerses leaderhead. :)

Capt Buttkick

Apr 07, 2004, 05:08 PM

Thanks for the clarification mad :)
I'd say f10 and go for pottery if we have no expansionist civs. Alphabet --> writing --> literature with a prebuild for the GL would be my bet after that. All the better if we can trade for alphabet.
I'd be very surprised if the tile N N of our staring spot was anything but coast, but I've been wrong before ;)

leif erikson

Apr 07, 2004, 05:15 PM

Hi X Men

I understand we are playing in Civ3 1.29 vanilla and have set up to do so. :goodjob:

I downloaded the save last night and did a quick recon. Our opponents include: The Zulu, The Babylonians, The Aztecs, The Iroquois and The Americans. Of that, three are expansionist (Pottery), two are militaristic (Warrior Code), three are religious (CB), one scientific (which we are) and one industrious (as we are).

In GOTMs, I have always suffered when I have not gotten Pottery early to facilitate expansion. With three expansionist civs as opponents on a small map, I don't think we should consider Goody Huts (GH) as something we can count on. I set up a random game to test a few ideas yesterday.

If we decide to play AW, then Pottery, at 100 %, should require about 10 or 11 turns. To follow with Iron Working will require 30 turns at 100 % and 40 turns at 20 %, later at 10 %. I think Alan is right that, if it is AW, then The Wheel and Horseback Riding become priorities, along with getting some cities with Barracks.

The problem I found in my trial game is that with AW, should we meet a civ, like the Zulu early, we must have enough warriors to make sure we survive against their Impis, which can retreat like mounted troops. The Impi requires no resources and is available at the start for the Zulu. :eek:

Zamint is correct that we have furs to our west, not deer. While I hate to waste worker turns, it might be worth our while to send the worker to the hill to the northeast to see what that body of water is to the north and to see how much forest is to the east. If there is nothing enticing, then we settle on the spot and get on building warriors, three or so, and then a settler and then, depending on what we find, a Granary or a Barracks.

At Regent, shouldn't we be able to keep up with tech by doing our own research? If we can focus on one of the branches of the tech tree and get a little bit ahead, then as we meet other civs, we can trade our way up before declaring war on them, hopefully.

I agree with you both, if we have horses, its Chariots and Horseman asap, without horses, it is Immortals (if we find iron and seize it) and, as a last resort, Archers. I'm with you Alan, forget the defensive units, we need offense and an active defense. With AW, we must first be able to defend ourselves and then create the capacity to attack!

As far as multiple victory conditions, I would like to know we will survive before detailed planning begins for the future. :lol:

AlanH

Apr 07, 2004, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by mad-bax
I wonder if Alanh looks like Xerses leaderhead. :) Ahah! You've peeked at my photo in one of last year's F^4 threads!

Hmmm! Must book an optician checkup. Furs! Oh well :(

So we're agreed on AW? If so I guess we want to defer contact as long as possible. So exploration should be fairly localised to find the best city sites. With three expansionist civs in the mix, they'll find us soon enough.

Re. Pottery - if three out of our five rivals are expansionist, I'd have thought we stand a good chance of trading for it on first contact. And unless we find a food-rich starting point for our first settler, my reading of the rule of thumb donated by SirPleb is that we should spit out settler first rather than granary if we think our second city will have more food than our first. If that's the case we can afford to wait for pottery.

BTW. Does anyone think widely spaced, non-overlapped city sites are a good idea? We'd better get that one out in the open early, as I've seen heated religious debates about it in one or two SGs I've lurked in. I generally prefer something like RCP if the terrain fits, with close spacing to allow fast movement between cities - three tiles/single turn marches by road if possible, except over rivers, of course. That'll maximise our active defense capability.

I was rather hoping someone else would step up for the first 20 turns, but I'll take them if no one else wants to. If so I'll pick it up tomorrow night as it's now after midnight in the UK.

Re the roster: We have two in UK, two in Scandinavia, with leif, the only Scandinavian name, in the US :confused: I don't think we can use time zones to any advantage with this mix, and at the moment we have mabellino AWOL. In the absence of any other suggestion I propose we run with the sequence as-is in mad-bax's first post, but move mabellino to immediately behind whoever plays first. That'll give him(?) maximum catch-up time. Anyone want to be called "she/her" by the way? Or are we all of the male persuasion?

AlanH

Apr 07, 2004, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by zamint3

I haven't played vanilla for a long time, but its not much different from PTW or?

I've never played PtW, of course. The biggest difference I know of is the cost of workers. It's not likely to have any impact in an AW game, but AI workers cost 25 to 35 gold each in Civ3 vs. 130 gold or more in PtW. Other than that I have heard that the PtW AI is a bit harder to trick into going after soft targets?

leif erikson

Apr 07, 2004, 07:09 PM

I think you are on the right track Alan. As far as I'm concerned, closer spaced cities providing mutual defense is the way to go. I also think Pottery can wait a short while, do we start with Iron Working then or will it be The Wheel?

If you wish, I can play the first 20 turns. I just wanted to be sure I understand the concept that the team thinks we should use. I have downloaded the save and am ready, I think. I will do what you wish.

The main questions for the first person is to explore with the worker on the hill and then decide to move the settler or go for the bonus grass first with the worker. Moving the settler north to the water takes him out of the bonus grass for the first 10 turns. Depending on what is out there, that may be OK?

BTW - I am of Scandinavian (Swedish) and Dutch descent. In fact, I have more relatives in Europe than I have in the U.S. and have spent a great deal of time there. ;)

AlanH

Apr 07, 2004, 09:59 PM

If the team is agreed, let's go!

Keeping up in research is reasonable-to-easy on Regent as long as you can trade, but if five others are all trading and we aren't then we are at a distinct disadvantage.

Plan A - I see the attraction of alphabet->writing->literature->GL. If we can be sure of snagging the GL then this would fit quite well, as it would take about 100 turns and we *might* even get to another government by the time we put Immortals into battle. Monarchy would be best since we won't be able to run AW in Republic, I imagine. We should be able to get the GL, as there will be no Commercial civ with an Alphabet head start, and a pre-build should do it for us.

If we are on a pangeia we'll get five early tech trades, less on any other shaped world. With luck we'll pick up Pottery, Warrior Code and CB. That would allow us to build archers for early offensives. I can't see us getting to HBR until we get the Library.

Plan B would be to go for horses and hope to grab the GL from someone else - a big gamble.

Plan C would be to beeline Ironworking. I think Iron should come a bit later, as it will take us straight to our UU in 40 turns, which feels a bit too soon to be triggering a GA.

Place your bets, guys. Wheel, or Alphabet, or Iron?

zamint3

Apr 08, 2004, 02:13 AM

I say we go for plan A, we should be able to trade for Warrior Code and get some archers.

Originally posted by AlanH
So we're agreed on AW? If so I guess we want to defer contact as long as possible. So exploration should be fairly localised to find the best city sites. With three expansionist civs in the mix, they'll find us soon enough.
I agree!!

I generally prefer something like RCP if the terrain fits, with close spacing to allow fast movement between cities - three tiles/single turn marches by road if possible, except over rivers, of course. That'll maximise our active defense capability.
I agree!!

Building order : Warrior, warrior, warrior, settler depending on how much extra food we find.

I won't be able to play today, but from friday and onwards should be fine.

Happy easterholidays
:) :)

AlanH

Apr 08, 2004, 03:23 AM

Here's the roster then:

AlanH
mabellino
leif erikson - UP -
zamint3 On Deck
Capt Buttkick

Leif - play when ready. Plan A. Try to avoid contact. Scout on high ground/forests. If you meet anyone declare war before you close the diplo screen.

leif erikson

Apr 08, 2004, 06:36 AM

OK, I've got it and will start shortly.

Plan A it is, close build resembling RCP at 3 squares, and AW. Just pray we don't run into the Zulu too soon!

Capt Buttkick

Apr 08, 2004, 07:34 AM

I'm aiming to log in twice a day as long as I'm home (a week after easter). After that I'm usually more active in the forums when I'm at work cause I'm sitting behind my PC all the time anyway ;)

I was going to vote plan A anyway. Good luck, Leif :)

Q: did we find out whether we're allowed to run away from making contact?

leif erikson

Apr 08, 2004, 08:02 AM

Here is the turn log.

Turn 0
I decided to have a look around and moved the worker onto the hill to the northeast. We are located on a peninsula surrounded by salt water.
I settle on the start location, planning to place our next city on the water. Persepolis is founded and production is set to warrior.
Research is set to Alphabet at 20 percent (40 turns).

IBT

Turn 1
Worker moves southeast.

IBT

Turn 2
Worker roads.

IBT

Turn 3

IBT

Turn 4
Worker mines.

IBT
Persepolis produces a warrior, production set to warrior.

Turn 5
Warrior moves south.

IBT

Turn 6
Warrior moves south.

IBT

Turn 7
Worker moves west and southwest onto furs.
Warrior moves southwest onto a GH. We have disturbed a group of Harrapan Warriors. No Luck!

IBT
We are attacked by the warriors. We defeat the first losing one hit point and lose to the second. Luck is getting worse!

Turn 8
Worker roads.

IBT
Persepolis produces a warrior, production set to warrior.

Turn 9
Warrior moves south beside the barbarian warrior.

IBT
The Harrapin Warrior attacks and is defeated while we lose one hit point.
Persepolis expands due to our excellent cultural achievements. There is a bridge of land to the north and nothing further to the east, except more water.
Persepolis grows to size 2.

Turn 10
Warrior fortifies to regain health.

IBT
We now have furs in Persepolis, the people rejoice.

Turn 11
Worker moves north.
Warrior moves south.

IBT

Turn 12
Worker roads.
Warrior moves south along the hilltops.

IBT
Persepolis produces a warrior,Warrior2, production to settler.
I can not change the name, in PTW it is shift N.

Turn 13
Warrior2 moves north.
Warrior moves west.

IBT

Turn 14
The grass looks greener to the north.
Worker north.
Warrior2 northwest.
Warrior southwest.

IBT

Turn 15
Worker roads.
Warrior2 northwest onto bridge, another GH.
Warrior south.

IBT

Turn 16
Warrior south, another land bridge.
Warrior2 takes a GH and we have been given a skilled warrior (conscript.) I’ll call CW.
CW moves south, to guard Persepolis.

IBT

Turn 17
Warrior2 north.
Warrior southeast.
Worker moves northwest.
CW moves southeast.

IBT

Turn 18
CW fortifies.
Worker moves northwest.
Warrior2 moves northwest and finds dyes.
Warrior moves south.

IBT

Turn 19
Warrior2 moves north.
Worker roads.
Warrior moves south.

IBT

Turn 20
Warrior2 moves west.
Warrior moves south.

Firaxis score 53.

<<The Save>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1PersiaTeamX--3000BC.SAV)

This is a tough start. I'll post a screen shot in a few minutes and explain where we are.

leif erikson

Apr 08, 2004, 08:17 AM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM_XMEN_3000_BC.jpg

To the north are the dyes, to the south there is not much. Have not met any other civs yet either.

I started the worker on building a road and mine for city number 2. Of course, whoever is next can place it wherever they feel is best. The only food is the fish to the west of Persepolis and I couldn't find a good way to get it into a city radius quickly. I have found only two bonus grass, one we are using and the second the worker is on now.

Suggestions I have, perhaps we can speed up research some, I forgot to check. I was tryign to build up gold for any meetings with other civs. It may also be worth speeding up the settler a bit.

I look forward to watching how we develop this. Good luck.

AlanH

Apr 08, 2004, 11:17 AM

Thanks for getting us moving, leif. Good work :goodjob:

AlanH
mabellino
leif erikson
zamint3 - UP -
Capt ButtkickOn Deck

zamint3 will probably not pick up until Friday. Conversation delays are bit long currently, which is not a problem, but, rather than try to switch players to rush it, I suggest we use the time for more discussion.

@Captain: I'll try and get a ruling on whether we *have* to talk on contact. I'd obviously prefer to have the choice.

@leif: No, that's another difference in vanilla - you can only rename elites at the time when they produce leaders. Not very useful really.

A city on the furs three tiles SW of Persepolis would get the fish, but only after culture expansion, and it's still only a two-food tile at this stage in the game. It would also grab the other furs further SSW - only useful for denial, of course.

Questions for the brainstrust:

Dropping to pop 1 for 7 turns will slow down gold and production a lot. With no food bonuses it will take a while to grow back up again. Should we switch to a barracks in Perspolis to get a bit bigger, and then build a settler?

I can't load the save until I get home. Do we know anything about the space to the north east of Persepolis, off the screenshot? So far nothing remotely resembling a settler factory. and no fresh water :( Well, at least the space we are on seems to be quite defensible.

leif erikson

Apr 08, 2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by AlanH

Questions for the brainstrust:

Dropping to pop 1 for 7 turns will slow down gold and production a lot. With no food bonuses it will take a while to grow back up again. Should we switch to a barracks in Perspolis to get a bit bigger, and then build a settler?

I can't load the save until I get home. Do we know anything about the space to the north east of Persepolis, off the screenshot? So far nothing remotely resembling a settler factory. and no fresh water :( Well, at least the space we are on seems to be quite defensible. [/B]

I think a Barracks is a good idea, especially since we have no real worries about unhappiness. After that, we will need to get some settlers going to mark off our terrain, so to speak. Looks like we can built plenty of warriors in between the settlers, all of them veterans, and we'll probably need them.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTMXMEN1_3000BC.jpg

As you can see, I don't think there will be much up to the northeast besides tundra, but we should check it out. You never know what you might find.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTMXMEN2_3000BC.jpg

Here is a shot of the southern half of our area. Not too much except for desert and plains, with a few grasslands thrown in for fun.

Capt Buttkick

Apr 08, 2004, 05:10 PM

Ouch! That's probably the worst start I've seen in a gotm (not your play, Leif lol).

If we're not alone, at least we're a long way away from other civs, and with chokepoints in either end. I'll vote for settler now and start a warrior factory on the fur that Alan mentioned. In that case, maybe barracks first in Pasargade (second city, right?) before settlers galore.

AlanH

Apr 08, 2004, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by leif erikson
As you can see, I don't think there will be much up to the northeast besides tundra, but we should check it out. You never know what you might find.
Do you mean north west? We should certainly folllow that land bridge to see what other goodies might lie in wait for us.

leif erikson

Apr 08, 2004, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick

If we're not alone, at least we're a long way away from other civs, and with chokepoints in either end. I'll vote for settler now and start a warrior factory on the fur that Alan mentioned. In that case, maybe barracks first in Pasargade (second city, right?) before settlers galore.

It is a tough start. I pulled up the save and checked it. With a little micromanagement, we can have a Barracks in 3 turns. That will delay the settler a few turns but it may be worth it with everyone so far away and the ability to turn out veteran units in between settlers. With no good sites around, all our cities may have to turn out settlers with military units in between so we can expand.

Both NE and NW will need checking. Let's pray for a happy surprise, like two cattle and a wheat. :lol:

I also checked up on our opponents UU's, in case anyone should meet them soon. The Zulu have the Impi and the Aztecs the Jaguar Warrior, both these units require no resources and replace the warrior and both move two, like chariots, and can retreat. The Babylonians have the Bowman, requires Warrior Code, so we probably shouldn't trade that to them should we have it. The Iroquois have Mounted Warriors and, I think, this requires Horseback Riding. The Americans won't have a UU until after we win! :king:

zamint3

Apr 09, 2004, 03:05 AM

And I'll start playing shortly.
I just have to read all your thoughts and suggestions first :)

(..and I have a few RL problems too :eek: )

zamint3

Apr 09, 2004, 08:48 AM

Here it is:

3000 Changed production to barracks in 3 turns
Research set to 100%, Alphabet in 12 turns

2950 Turn 21 :
Worker starts mining.
Warrior2 moves W, no more land !
Warrior moves S see green border (Aztecs!?) and two forrest w. game.

2900 Turn 22 :
Warrior2 moves W, nothing!
Warrior S, will try to capture worker!!

2850 Turn 23 :
The Aztecs contacts us on the interturn, we get Warrior Code and
Cer.Burial for Masonry + 38g. They have Bronze so they must have met
the Babylonians.
We declare war!
CW moves S.
Warrior moves S, he won’t get the worker.
Forgot about the fast Jag Warrior, our warrior gets killed in the woods without hurting the Jag. W. at all. :(
Warrior2 comes back towards Persepolis

2800 Turn 24 :
Persepolis completes Barracks and starts on Settler.

2750 Turn 25 :
CW fortifies on hill as lookout!

2710 Turn 26 :
Worker starts mining grass.

2670 Turn 27 :
CW hops from hill to hill, nothing is coming from the S, we’ll stay with the settler.

2630 Turn 28 :
Still nothing

2590 Turn 29 :
****!! .. two Jag. Warriors coming out of the fog from the S.
I’ll leave the CW fortified on the hill and pray!
Worker mines the other grass.

2550 Turn 30 :
The CW fights back the first Jag. War., who gets redlined and retreats,
but loses to the other one, without him getting hurt :(

Score : Persia 59, Aztecs 72.

Sorry to leave this mess guys. :cry:

I should have switched to archer sooner. The Jag. War. is on the red spot, and I don’t think he got
promoted on the win (?) so he should be a reg., the other one is one tile south and redlined. I left
production on settler, due in two turns. We probably should switch to archer, and start producing
those as fast as possible, it looks like we have to eliminate the Aztecs to meet the other civs.
anyway.
I’ll post this and sit back and do some thinking. :confused:

The save is >>here<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1PersiaTeamX--2550BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Persia_2550_bc.jpg

and here the rest of the world, there was nothing to the north.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Persia-Aztecs.jpg

AlanH

Apr 09, 2004, 09:12 PM

Ouch! So this is what AW is like? Great idea Alan! Any more where that came from? :rolleyes:

AlanH - On Deck -
mabellino
leif erikson
zamint3
Capt Buttkick - UP -

No need to apologise, zamint3, this was how we agreed to play it, and the RNG did the rest. Let's all sleep on it;)

leif erikson

Apr 09, 2004, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by AlanH

No need to apologise, zamint3, this was how we agreed to play it, and the RNG did the rest. Let's all sleep on it;)

Good job zamint3, you played it as we discussed. I am begining to see why AW is scored a difficulty level higher! It is good for raising the level of excitement, that's for sure. :eek:

Looking at the save, we have an interesting set of choices ahead. The settler can be changed, with loss of several shields, to either an Archer or a Spearman. Thinking about it a little, here is what I see and please correct me if I'm sounding stupid:

Archer-With its attack of 2, we should use it offensively. As the Jaguar Warriors can move two and can retreat, there is no guarantee that our archer can destroy one. The worst outcome would be that the JW retreats after inflicting some loss of HP on our Archer and leaves him vulnerable to attack from the second JW. This would also leave Persepolis in dire straights, covered by one Warrior versus possibly two JWs.

Spearman-With a defense of two, the spearman can wait in Persepolis and, hopefully, absorb some punishment, perhaps even attain elite status, against the JW. The main problem with this strategy is that the JW can destroy our worker improvements while we sit and wait for them to attack.

I am going to sleep on it some too, but I wake up 6 hours after you guys and don't want to miss the discussion. A very interesting predicament. :o

mad-bax

Apr 10, 2004, 02:22 AM

I have created a maintenance thread for this game >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1744816#post1744816).

It will be used for scores and announcements so it might be a good idea to bookmark it.

zamint3

Apr 10, 2004, 03:40 AM

Originally posted by AlanH
Ouch! So this is what AW is like? Great idea Alan! Any more where that came from? :rolleyes:
As you said : it is "a learning experience" :lol:

We could consider whipping and we will have 2 archers in no time and our warrior :cool:

Any idea what the AI will do? Will he move forward with the one JW or will he wait for the other one to regain health (2 turns)?

Capt Buttkick

Apr 10, 2004, 06:14 AM

AI never move on with hurt units. AI either return them to cities or heal on spot.

I'll take a look and post my views in a few...

AlanH

Apr 10, 2004, 07:07 AM

I've slept on it, and it doesn't look any prettier today.

Note that the Aztecs are now in their golden age which will increase their rate of production of JWs for the next 20 turns.

Right now the single JW sees an undefended city and a worker. My guess is he'll move forward two tiles onto the open ground without waiting for backup, ready to attack the city (or the worker) on the next turn. We can only complete one unit before then. if the JW does what I suspect then an archer could reach him and probably kill or retreat him.
We can then rush a spear to make the city look less inviting and keep trying to fend off the JWs with combined archer attack and spear defence.

I'm not optimistic. Once we have built an archer and rushed a spear, those plus our warrior may be all we ever have time to create to defend against a ga-fuelled JW SOD. Five or six of them is all it would take, and it won't be long before he has that many. The ones he has are probably scattered, but I expect they are already moving fast in our direction.

Capt Buttkick

Apr 10, 2004, 07:20 AM

I agree with Alan on the outtake of the one JW moving. The other will probably stay and heal. My first thought was archer too. But this is such a deep predicament that we may have to turn out a spearman and stay in the city to guard it.
Also: if the JW moves, what should we do about the worker? If we build archer and it wins, we've got np. If we build archer and loose we're pretty much screwed anyway. If we build spearman, we need to move the worker cause we can't defend it with our warrior.
I'm undecided on the archer vs. spearman issue for now. However, if we decide to build spear, we should start moving our worker on my turn 0 imhso.

How long does it take for us to chop down forests?
After the worker is done mining (or if it's moved) we could speed up production by chopping forests.

Btw: anyone know if it's possible to install two versions of Civ on the same comp? I don't want to uninstall all the Gotm changes I did...

AlanH

Apr 10, 2004, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
I agree with Alan on the outtake of the one JW moving. The other will probably stay and heal. My first thought was archer too. But this is such a deep predicament that we may have to turn out a spearman and stay in the city to guard it.
Also: if the JW moves, what should we do about the worker? If we build archer and it wins, we've got np. If we build archer and loose we're pretty much screwed anyway. If we build spearman, we need to move the worker cause we can't defend it with our warrior.

I don't know if it's possible to move the worker on this turn - if he's mid mining then we could disturb him and move him. If he's only just moved to that tile then he can't move now anyway. In any case, I suggest the worker stays put for now, undefended, because I vote for an archer. The JW can't reach it yet, but it may increase the chances of him moving to the open ground between turns, as he then has two defenceless targets for his next turn - the city and the worker. If we kill the JW then the worker can probably finish his current task.

I'm undecided on the archer vs. spearman issue for now. However, if we decide to build spear, we should start moving our worker on my turn 0 imhso.I voted archer because if we build a spear then we can only attack the approaching solitary JW with the warrior, with less than a 50:50 chance of success given the retreat capability. Or we don't attack at all, hide away in the city and await our fate. A spear in the city will then deter the lone JW and he'll just wait out of range until they build up a SOD to come and get us. If we build an archer we have a good chance of taking the JW out on open ground, with the warrior as backup if the archer loses. That's one less JW, and a few more turns before th Aztecs have enough of a SOD to come after us. It might buy us some time.

How long does it take for us to chop down forests?
After the worker is done mining (or if it's moved) we could speed up production by chopping forests. I can't remember if our industrious trait gives us 50% or 100%. At 50% we can chop a forest in 7 turns. If we rush a unit we'll only have one citizen left, so that's a good plan. We should do it.

Btw: anyone know if it's possible to install two versions of Civ on the same comp? I don't want to uninstall all the Gotm changes I did... The only change needed to unmod it is to switch Art/resources.pcx and Art/resource_shadows.pcx back to the standard versions.

I actually make a duplicate of a Civ folder and apply mod changes to it, then make a shortcut to the .exe in that folder so that I can open it instead of my 'standard' one. If you have a single copy, modded to gotm, then you could make a duplicate of the folder, swap the resources back to standard, and you can use that copy for this game.

Capt Buttkick

Apr 10, 2004, 10:13 AM

Industrious is 100% preconquests IIRC, so that would mean 5 turns then? That's pretty good, +2 shields pt.
I checked the log and the worker started mining last turn so we can move if we like.

What if we build archer and it looses, throw in the warrior as well? Not much use in hiding in Persepolis with a single warrior imhso. Might depend on how many HPs the archer can take off the JW, though.

Thanks for the clarification on the installment. I'll do what you said.

leif erikson

Apr 10, 2004, 11:31 AM

It sounds like you have pretty much figured it out. There is no point in hiding in Persepolis and awaiting the inevitable. Archer sounds like the way to go. Capt., that is a good idea to do some chopping. Once we whip a Spear, they'll be no one to work the mine anyway.

I'd like to suggest that, should we go down in a blaze of glory, that we consider sticking together, reviewing what we did, and, if anyone is game, starting again with the same objective. We have to do better the next time, don't we?

edit - Good Luck Capt Buttkick!! :tank:

Capt Buttkick

Apr 10, 2004, 12:33 PM

Thanks, I'll need it :)

So, in case our archer goes down, continue on with the warrior as well? Or hide in Persepolis with it?

zamint3

Apr 10, 2004, 12:39 PM

Cheer up guys, it ain't over yet. :D :crazyeye:

I just checked the Combat Calculator :
The odds of a reg JW beating a fortified vet spear is 4.9%, and with a vet warrior this only increases to 21.6%

... so no worries. :lol: :lol: :rolleyes:

Good luck Capt. :sniper:

leif erikson

Apr 10, 2004, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by zamint3
I just checked the Combat Calculator :
The odds of a reg JW beating a fortified vet spear is 4.9%, and with a vet warrior this only increases to 21.6%

... so no worries. :lol: :lol: :rolleyes:

The way things have been going so far, that could be 0.05% and I'd still be worried. :crazyeye:

I would say to do whatever you think it takes to keep us alive. If it means attacking with the warrior too, I'm all for it. It is far more interesting than sitting and waiting for them to come for us.

leif erikson

Apr 10, 2004, 06:03 PM

Did some math homework and I think it may be possible to build an Archer, a Spearman, and a second Archer during your 10 turns without whipping if you use the worker to cut two of the forest tiles. If 3 or 4 JWs come at you, you may not have the time, but it is an option.

edit - looks like I failed math, forgot the two turns to move the worker, so it should be able to be done in 12. :crazyeye:

Again, good luck and may you all have a Happy Easter Day. :jesus:

Capt Buttkick

Apr 11, 2004, 03:36 AM

Zamint seem to like the spearman idea and after checking out the combat calc, I'm inclined to agree, it gives us more than 10% better chance of winning first combat and at this point I say we need every bit we can just to stay alive. That makes it 2 vs. 2 and we haven't heard from Mabellino yet.
Build after that will be all archers.

Since we haven't worked out who gets the deciding vote in these cases (active player or leader), and I've exhausted my "think time", I'll go ahead and play and see how it goes. Don't bash me if I make the wrong decision. This game could go either way whatever decision I make.

AlanH

Apr 11, 2004, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
Since we haven't worked out who gets the deciding vote in these cases (active player or leader), and I've exhausted my "think time", I'll go ahead and play and see how it goes. Don't bash me if I make the wrong decision. This game could go either way whatever decision I make. The current player has the casting vote. And there's no beat-up or "I told you so" allowed. Do what you feel most comfortable with, and good luck!

Capt Buttkick

Apr 11, 2004, 04:55 AM

Turn 0 2550 B.C. Jags are lurking in our woods so switch to spearman at loss of 7 shields (including the 4 we get next turn). MM for one turn to get a little more commerce, then back to focus on growth. Move worker so we only loose one turn work. It follows the road to end up 2 tiles east.
IBT: A vet JW arrives 2 tiles SW of Persepolis :(
Turn 1 2510 B.C. Persepolis spearman --> archer. Warrior moves to Persepolis to fortify, I’m not in the mood for loosing more units… Spearman fortifies in Persepolis. MM back to focus on gowth. Worker chops forest.
IBT: JW fortifies 2 SW of our capitol.
Turn 2 2470 B.C. Research @ 60% 1 turn.
Turn 3 2430 B.C. Discover Alphabet. Start minimum towards Writing in 40. Persepolis size 4 so MM to work furs --> archer in 2.
IBT: 2 more JWs (regs) from the S appear on the same spot as the first one. Brace yourself…
Turn 4 2390 B.C. Bracing…
IBT: 2 JWs attack. A regular is defeated by spear with no HP-loss. Veteran defeats our spear after loosing one HP! Our RNG luck continues to slump :(
Turn 5 2350 B.C. Persepolis archer --> spearman. Archer attack hurt JW and redlines (so close to loosing another unit!) before taking it out. Warrior hits other JW which retreats after taking a HP off our warrior. 10% lux.
IBT: The JW is healed a HP then defeats our warrior ??? after loosing a HP and then moves south.
Turn 6 2310 B.C. Archer returns to Persepolis to heal. MM for growth. Worker moves NW. No lux.
IBT: JW fortifies to heal.
Turn 7 2270 B.C. Worker chops forest. Persepolis spearman --> archer.
Turn 8 2230 B.C. Nothing.
IBT: Healed JW moves to hill S of our city.
Turn 9 2190 B.C. MM to furs to get archer in 2. Archer kills JW after loosing a HP.
Turn 10 2150 B.C. Archer returns to city.

1 city with barracks, 1 vet spear, 1 vet archer with another one due next turn. Chop due in two.

<< Save >> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1PersiaTeamX--2150BC.SAV)

Capt Buttkick

Apr 11, 2004, 05:06 AM

At least I didn't loose it :lol:

It definitly looked like the JW IBT turns 5 and 6 healed a HP before attacking. I was prob wrong, but why a 1 HP JW should want to take on a 2-HP warrior is beyond me.

I think we need to create our own archer SoD here before moving anywhere. Then stick to forests and hills as we move south.

Maybe we should stop wishing each other good luck?
Break a leg, Alan. Preferrably an Aztec one ;)

AlanH

Apr 11, 2004, 05:59 AM

AlanH - UP -
mabellino - On Deck -
leif erikson
zamint3
Capt Buttkick

I've downloaded the save and I'll have a think. Maybe come back for discussions, maybe just do it later today :eek: But I'll let you know when I'm about to start, so for now feel free to offer advice, throw rotten fruit, whatever ...

zamint3

Apr 11, 2004, 06:05 AM

Well done Capt. :goodjob:

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
...2 JWs attack. A regular is defeated by spear with no HP-loss. Veteran defeats our spear after loosing one HP! Our RNG luck continues to slump :(

I've seen that so often, the defender loosing badly on second attack, there's got to be something with the RNG here. :confused: :confused:

leif erikson

Apr 11, 2004, 06:48 AM

Excellent Work Capt.!! We're still alive and kicking!:goodjob:

Good Luck Alan! The RNG has given us its worst. The odds say that things have to get better from here. :D Hopefully we can begin to transition from survival to attacker.

AlanH

Apr 11, 2004, 09:17 AM

Yes, Captain. I was in a hurry this morning when I checked in, and didn't have time to pay my respects. Good work! Looking on the bright side, we're still in the game, we've given the Aztecs a bloody nose and they only have three or four more turns of Golden Age to go. Our population is not decimated by rushing, and we have a breating space for recovery.

I've had a look around. Very frustrating that the Aztecs will talk, and we could get Pottery and the Wheel for peace and 30 gold right now :( That's in spite of the fact that, not surprisingly, we are considered weak vs. Aztec. So it's a pretty straightforward case of building up our forces as fast as possible, dealing with a possible second attack, and getting an archer SOD together to go and take out the Aztec (probably three or four cities by then).

If we are going to go for the Great Library we do need to pop a settler for a second city as soon as possible. It will cost 400 shields. In Persepolis we could get it in less than 80 turns, and we are already within 73 turns of researching Literature, but we can't switch to a Pyramids prebuild until we have some more troops. No one's building any Wonders yet. That's not surprising, as the AI doesn't start one until they have four cities in my expoerience. The Great Library will only do any good once we know two civs of course. I assume at some point the Babylonians will come by since the Aztecs apparently met them before us. That depends on whether they get a RoP with the Aztecs. Otherwise we are probably going to have to wait for a seaborne meeting with them or someone else.

I thnk I'll get started. Back shortly ....

AlanH

Apr 11, 2004, 11:44 AM

Turn 0 2150BC Preflight: Archer completes next turn, worker finishes in 2 turns we can have 2 more archers in a couple more turns. No changes. Hit next turn and hold breathe ...

IBT Archer completed -> archer

Turn 1 2110BC Consider posting lookouts but can't get far enough south without running out of road. Then Jags Warriors would outrun our sentry. Fortify both archers in Persepolis.

IBT Worker completes forest chop.

Turn 2 2070BC Worker starts road (2 turns) Adjust for more food as we complete archer next turn. Still weak vs. Aztec. 68 gold.

IBT Archer completed -> archer

Turn 3 2030BC We are now average vs. Aztec [dance] Army support now costs 1gpt. Aztecs now have Mysticism. Writing in 30 turns.

IBT Worker completes road. Aztec regular spear shows up from south. He's ether going to stake out a fortified forward position in our forests or hills, or he's going to pillage our improvements. I can't reach him before he gets to a defence bonus position :(

Turn 4 1990BC Decide to move three archers to the hill south of Persepolis to cover posible spear moves to the other hill or into the forest and/or Jag warrior arrivals. Worker mines where he stands rather then move to chop the forest close to possible action.

IBT The Aztec spear moves into the fur forest south of our hooked up furs. Looks like he plans to vandalise as he hasn't been joined by any offensive troops. Thucydides tells us the largest nations are Aztec, Iroquois, Zulu, Babylon, America, Persia.

Turn 5 1950BC The calculator gives us better than evens with vet archer vs. unfortified regular spear in forest so I decide to attack. First archer dies. Spear redlines then promotes to 2/4. Second archer dies!!!! Spear redlines to 1/4. Third archer kills spear with no damage and no promotion. We are now weak vs. Aztecs again. They now have a total of three cities.

Turn 6 1910BC Archer goes back to his hill.

IBT We finish another archer this turn, and we grow to pop 5. Worker completes mine.

Turn 7 1870BC Archer fortifies on hill. worker moves to forest SW of Persepolis. Diplo - no change. Military adviser warns of barbs and points out that we are weak vs the Aztecs and strongly recommends that we build archers. Thanks for that! we are now producing 7 spt for an archer in 3 turns.

Turn 8 1830BC Worker start chopping forest. Writing in 25 turns, 99 gold.

IBT Barb warrior arrives in the forest on the northern choke point.

Turn 9 1790BC Decide to wait for barb to reach open grund before attacking.

IBT Barb moves south to open ground. Aztec spear appears from south. Archer completed -> settler in 3 turns with the forest chop. Feel free to change this.

Turn 10 1750BC Archer from Persepolis kills barb warror with no damage, no promotion.

Post-action report: We have built four archers but lost two, so our army is 3 archers plus one spear. We have 112 gold in the treasury, and writing will complete in 23 turns.

There's a barb camp to our north somewhere giving opportunities for promotion and cash. The archer who killed the barb could continue north to deal with the camp, or return to help against the Aztecs. We don't need the cash, so I suggest we let barb warriors turn up and deal with them as they arrive, hoping for promotions.

We have another Aztec spear approaching, no doubt intent on pillage again. I haven't moved two archers yet. One's fortified on the hill outside Persepolis, the other is in the city. Next better player can decide whether he feels luckier next time than I was.

We have a settler in progress. If we change that to something cheaper we'll waste some forest shields, but please feel free.

Below is a screenshot for the lurkers, and <<HERE>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team-X_1750BC.zip) is the zipped save.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team_X_1750.jpg

AlanH

Apr 11, 2004, 11:48 AM

AlanH
mabellino - UP -
leif erikson - On Deck -
zamint3
Capt Buttkick

I'll PM mabellino, as we've heard nothing else since s/he signedup. leif - you may need to step up if we hear nothing in the next 24 hours.

leif erikson

Apr 11, 2004, 12:28 PM

Nice Job Alan, we have survived for another 10 turns. :goodjob:

The next question is where to establish our second city, should we be able to produce the settler? I think it could be either the bridge to the north, where we have a bonus grass mined already, or on the fur 3 tiles to the southwest. Thoughts?

Things are looking up, I wasn't too sure we would last this long.:cool:

AlanH

Apr 11, 2004, 01:56 PM

[/b]I'll PM mabellino, as we've heard nothing else since s/he signedup. leif - you may need to step up if we hear nothing in the next 24 hours. [/B]

I've PMd mabellino, but I'm not optimistic. s/he hasn't been on line for over a week, and hasn't even read my previous mail saying where our thread is and so on. I guess we have to wait out the 24 hours, but I think we'll be declaring one team member not just MIA, because they've seen no action, but as a no-show. I think it must be me - it's happpened on all my SGOTMs :(

AlanH

Apr 11, 2004, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by leif erikson
I wasn't too sure we would last this long.:cool: You and me both! :rolleyes:

leif erikson

Apr 11, 2004, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by AlanH
leif - you may need to step up if we hear nothing in the next 24 hours.

I am prepared to step up if necessary. Do I await your announcement or do I start 24 hours from your post with the save? I'm not sure how this works, I'm a noob, ooops! ;)

I would like to try to get a settler popped and am interested in opinions on where everyone thinks we should settler. It would be nice to have two towns pumping out units instead of just one. Perhaps we can get an Archer SOD together and provide some payback! :die:

Why build new towns when we can take some perfectly good ones?

Capt Buttkick

Apr 11, 2004, 06:19 PM

:lol:
I've rarely experienced such joy over surviving til 1750 B.C.

:goodjob: Alan. You needed to get rid of that spear. We'll just have to keep on playing the odds and sooner or later the RNG tide will turn.

W/r to second city: 3 tiles SW of Persepolis seem ideal, high production and close to Persepolis so we can guard both cities with fewer units. We can prebuild with the palace if everything goes wrong (like the Aztecs get a GL and rush our only possible prebuild lol).

AlanH

Apr 11, 2004, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by leif erikson
I am prepared to step up if necessary. Do I await your announcement or do I start 24 hours from your post with the save?It's probably best if I declare the skip formally before you dive in, in case mabellino contacts me via PM and I can't get to the forum to follow up. Unlikely, I know, but I wouldn't want to get any wires crossed.

I would like to try to get a settler popped and am interested in opinions on where everyone thinks we should settler. It would be nice to have two towns pumping out units instead of just one. Perhaps we can get an Archer SOD together and provide some payback!

Why build new towns when we can take some perfectly good ones?

For sure we shall take some Aztec towns, and later some Babylonian ones, but they are not likely to be very productive for a while because of distance corruption, until we are able to build a FP to develop a second core in the south. So we need to develop our own core asap. I'd go for putting Pasagardae three or four tiles away from Persepolis, on the coast but with six good land tiles. Remember we'll need construction, then expensive aqueducts, to get any town above pop 6. So our immediate horizons are limited to towns of size 6 max.

We can either go south or north, and should probably do both. North is more productive as there's some grass there to build population. South is good from the point of view of providing a base for operations against our neighbours, but be careful - there's very little food about to sustain much population. That furs forest site three tiles SW can only sustain a pop of three until we expand to include the fish. It can then get to pop 4 and that's it until we can build a harbour. The good news is we don't need to build culture in that city to get to the fish. Persepolis will expand again in ten turns and that will bring the fish into range of a city on that site. It has forty shields worth of forest in its radius as well. So I agree with the Captain. The next city should be on that SW furs tile. As soon as possible after that we need to put one on the forest tile between those two mined grass tiles.

leif erikson

Apr 11, 2004, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by AlanH
It's probably best if I declare the skip formally before you dive in, in case mabellino contacts me via PM and I can't get to the forum to follow up. Unlikely, I know, but I wouldn't want to get any wires crossed.

Thanks Alan! I will await your confirmation.

I forgot that Persepolis will expand again in 10 turns and encompass the fish. I agree that we should go to the southwest and build first. The focus for Pasagarde, barring an emergency, should be Barracks and then Archers? Or should we focus on a palace pre-build first? As Persepolis grows, and the situation permits, then we can produce another settler and go north.

Looking at the map, settling three tiles sw of Persepolis, we should be able to use the grassland square west of Persepolis, and chop the fur sw of Persepolis, to help Pasagarde grow beyond size 4. With mines, we should have a fairly productive city of 6. It would be nice to get that up and running. :D This still leaves Persepolis enough tiles to get to size 6 and somewhat beyond.

zamint3

Apr 12, 2004, 02:05 AM

Good work Alan :goodjob:

Notice that the new Aztec spear is a vet, so now the odds are against us :( ,but maybe that's a good thing, considering our luck with the RNG. :D :D :D
We should attack the spear in the open, so I would suggest we fortify an archer on the forrest fur and on the hill, that will (I hope :cool: ) force him onto the plain, and then we hit him hard. :ar15:

I would put Pasargadae on the forrest NW :
1) It's safer.
We don't know what the Aztec have got coming for us, and we might have problems defending two cities with Pasargadae in the SW.
2) It's up and running faster.
We already got the infrastructure, and we will have both growth and production from day one.

AlanH

Apr 12, 2004, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by zamint3
We should attack the spear in the open, so I would suggest we fortify an archer on the forrest fur and on the hill, that will (I hope :cool: ) force him onto the plain, and then we hit him hard.I agree. I don't think the spear will attack, and certainly not any archer on ground with a defence bonus. If we move to head him off I think we can kill him in the open. The only danger is that those archers will be vulnerable to JWs coming from out of sight, but with attack 1 there would have to be lots of them, and the RNG woud really have to be evil.

Watch out for unhappiness when we move our archers out of the city towards the spear. I was OK because the pop was 4 and by the time it grew we had a new archer there on the same turn, but you'll need to increase the entertainment tax.

I would put Pasargadae on the forrest NW :
1) It's safer.
We don't know what the Aztec have got coming for us, and we might have problems defending two cities with Pasargadae in the SW.
2) It's up and running faster.
We already got the infrastructure, and we will have both growth and production from day one. It's a close call. We need shields, so I did an exercise while we're waiting, and worked out which is the fastest shield producer, with the following interesting results ...

The fish and the single grass are the only 2fpt tiles in the south west site, and its forests cover plains, not grass as far as I can tell. The SW site cannot reach pop greater than 4 without a harbour and/or a higher government. Of those 4, one will be working the fish - no shields. The other three plus the city site will produce 6 spt after we mine the one grass - 5 worker turns including a road. On day 1 it will prduce 1 spt in the city, because we'll work the grass for growth. It has 20 shields of forest that can be cut without hurting citizen shield production, at a cost of 14 worker turns including roads.

The northern site can produce 2 spt immediately because of the mine we have doing nothing at the moment, it has more food to grow, so it can reach pop 6, all producing 1 spt. It has no forest. One worker can mine and road faster than its pop will grow, so we can assume all citizens will produce 1 spt as soon as they are born.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_X_Production1.jpg

It turns out that there's nothing between the two cities for the first 50 turns, but the northern city starts to move ahead after that by one spt because it can reach 7 spt when the southern one hits a ceiling of 6 spt. The southern city requires 22 worker turns and the northern one needs 30 assuming 5 tiles have to be mined and roaded. If further chopping and mining is done then the southern city can actually keep pace for 70 turns at a cost of about 20 more worker turns. It probably also has greater potential for waste minimisation by MMing, with more variety of terrains, but the forest shields will have to be timed carefully. When we do get to Monarchy and a harbour it will give us gold and more growth from the fish.

The bottom line is there's almost nothing in it from a short term production point of view. I think the safety factor is actually the one raised by zamint3 that really counts, and that has to be set against denial of territory and increased mobility vs the Aztecs if we settle towards the south.

So I think I still favour the south as the next city location, but I won't feel upset if we go north as long as the *next*next city is the southern one ;)

zamint3

Apr 12, 2004, 09:54 AM

Nice piece of math there Alan. :eek: :goodjob:

If we have some luck against the spear and nothing else showes up from the south, we could go for it. It's still a bit of a gamble though, without the time and the military to scout ahead.

Go for it Leif !
I guess you'll be making the tough decision. (?) :D :D

AlanH

Apr 12, 2004, 10:01 AM

Go for it Leif !
I guess you'll be making the tough decision. (?)Not yet, though! No news so far, but three more hours to mabellino's 24 hour deadline.

leif erikson

Apr 12, 2004, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by zamint3
Nice piece of math there Alan. :eek: :goodjob:

If we have some luck against the spear and nothing else showes up from the south, we could go for it. It's still a bit of a gamble though, without the time and the military to scout ahead.

Go for it Leif !
I guess you'll be making the tough decision. (?) :D :D

You did a better job of studying math than I did!! ;) Your analysis makes the decision basically a wash from the production standpoint. Should I get it, I can't get into too much trouble either way!! :lol: It seems like it will come down to how secure I feel. The way things have been going, I don't feel very secure! :confused:

I'll be checking in in a couple of hours. I hope I can get in, I had an awful time getting by the MySQL server connection database error. It took over 30 minutes. If you don't hear from me, I got eaten alive by the server monster.:cry:

AlanH

Apr 12, 2004, 12:20 PM

There's another factor that makes me lean towards the southern site - the fact that it can achieve its production from a smaller population means it will be easier/cheaper to keep happy.

The forum server's been up and down like the proverbial "......'s drawers" for the last week or so. They've been doing vBulletin upgrades at the same time as fixing problems in the database, and I think they plan a further upgrade to get to version 3 soon - if you're interested, see the discussions and banter arising from Thunderfall's notices here (http://www.civfanatics.com/news2/comments.php?id=72)

AlanH

Apr 12, 2004, 02:31 PM

AlanH
mabellino
leif erikson[b] - UP -
zamint3 - On Deck -
Capt Buttkick

Nothing from mabellino. It's well over 24 hours since I posted the roster and PMd, so leif is UP. Go for it, leif, and don't be nervous. Things can only get better :thumbsup:

I suggest we continue with four of us for now, unless anyone feels it's too much pressure?

Capt Buttkick

Apr 12, 2004, 03:58 PM

A short explanation on why I decided to go min research on writing:
I knew we prob could get writing faster than 40 turns if we stayed at max research as Persepolis grew (and/or more cities were founded). I don't think we need to prepare for the warrior-immortal upgrades quite yet b/c we don't want immortals before we have another government in place.
However, a few gcs in your coffers are good to have come trading time. In this case it'll be even more important cause we've only got that first contact with each civ to make good deals. If we can broker succesfully and research deep into the tech tree, we may come out even at the end of the ancient age, despite very limited trading (due to AW) and a pretty dreadful start.
So be careful with the trade deals, people. We'll need every edge we can get in this game.

leif erikson

Apr 12, 2004, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by AlanH
AlanH
mabellino
leif erikson[b] - UP -
zamint3 - On Deck -
Capt Buttkick

Nothing from mabellino. It's well over 24 hours since I posted the roster and PMd, so leif is UP. Go for it, leif, and don't be nervous. Things can only get better :thumbsup:

I suggest we continue with four of us for now, unless anyone feels it's too much pressure?

This is fine with me. I got it.

Thanks for your thoughts and the explaination Capt.

Be back in a while.

leif erikson

Apr 12, 2004, 07:19 PM

Turn 0 – 1750 BC Pre-flight
Wake the Vet Archer on the hill and move south onto hill.
Wake vet Archer in Persepolis and move SW and S onto forest fur.
Adjust Lux slider to 10%.
Checked on Research slider and to improve time would create negative cash, so research remains at 10 %.
Let’s see what the Aztec Spearman does. Click next turn.

IBT
The Aztec Spear moves NW onto plains.

Turn 1 – 1725 BC
Our vet Archer on the wooded fur attacks and defeats the Aztec Spear, going all the way to redline. :band: It is funny how it works because the spear was redlined without our losing a HP and we redlined before the spear was defeated.
Northern archer fortifies.
Archer on the hill fortifies.

IBT
Nothing

Turn 2 – 1700 BC
The Archer that attacked fortifies to heal.

IBT
Worker harvests the forest and Persepolis produces a settler-->archer (4 turns).

Turn 3 – 1675 BC
In the end, I decide security is the overriding consideration and moves the settler NW, N and NW.
Worker roads.
Wake northern Archer and move NW.

IBT
A Sarbadar (Barbarian) Warrior moves adjacent to our Settler and Archer.

Turn 4 – 1650 BC
Northern Archer attacks the barb warrior, defeats him losing 1 HP. Archer advances and is 1 square S of the Barb encampment.
Settler founds the town of Pasargadae and production is set to Barracks.
I always forget the slider, turn Lux down to zero.

IBT
Our people admire our achievement and expand our palace.

Turn 5 – 1625 BC
Our Archer has healed and moves NE back to the forested fur.
Worker mines.
Northern Archer fortifies to heal.

IBT
Nothing.

Turn 6 - 1600 BC
Archer on furs fortifies.
Northern Archer attacks N, defeats the barbs and loses one hit point while earning 25 gold.

IBT
Persepolis Archer-->Archer

Turn 7 – 1575 BC
Newest Archer moves SW and S onto furs, joins the Archer there.
Northern Archer moves S.

IBT
Nothing

Turn 8 – 1550 BC
Newest Archer fortifies on furs.
Worker moves NW and NW, mines
Northern Archer moves SW onto road.

IBT
An Aztec Archer moves into view on a hill 2 squares SW from our fortified Archer on the hill – patience is required here.

Turn 9 – 1525 BC
Northern Archer fortifies to heal.

IBT
Aztec Archer moves N onto plains – good killing ground!
Persepolis expands due to culture and grows one pop point to 4.

Turn 10 – 1500 BC
Before I forget, I check Persepolis for happiness, all is fine.
Wake an Archer on fur and attack SW, Aztec Archer. Bad luck continues, we lose our Archer after doing 2 HP damage and Aztec Archer promotes. :cry: :wallbash:
Wake second Archer and attack SW, after redlining, we defeat the Aztec Archer – it was really close! :blush:
Northern Archer moves into Pasargadae and fortifies. I did this to keep him within range to assist after losing the southern Archer.

Post turn analysis – An archer was produced. An archer was destroyed. Two Aztec units, a spear and an archer were destroyed. It looks like the Aztec may be thinking more offensively, archers have appeared and it showed up on the hill and not coming up through the desert squares.
Pasargadae was built and has 8 turns until a Barracks is built, next player’s option. Persepolis is 10 turns from growing and has an archer due in 1. There is 189 gold in the treasury and we are producing 7 GPT. Writing is due in 13 turns.
I was hoping to add to our number of military units, but, alas, only weeping is heard! :cry: Our Military Advisor says our military is weak compared to the Aztecs and that there is another Barb tribe near Pasargadae. Somehow, we need to get some offensive capability built.
At least we are not only surviving, but expanding.

Our Firaxis score is 71, Aztec is 106.

<<SAVE>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team-X_1500BC.SAV)

Screenshot next post.

leif erikson

Apr 12, 2004, 07:33 PM

The screenshot at 1500 BC.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTNXMEN_1500BC.jpg

AlanH

Apr 12, 2004, 08:31 PM

Good work leif. :thumbsup: We pop an archer next turn - you only missed increasing the military headcount by one turn.

AlanH
mabellino - Skipped after 24 hours no-show
leif erikson
zamint3 - UP -
Capt Buttkick - On Deck -

zamint3 is UP.

zamint3

Apr 13, 2004, 04:31 AM

Nice job leif. :)
I can feel the tide turning. ;) :D :D

So what's up next in Persepolis? More military or a settler? Comments?

Can we expect barb horsemen?

Capt Buttkick

Apr 13, 2004, 05:01 AM

Well done, Leif :)

I think we need to focus on military for your set of turns, zamint; archers that is.
We need another settler for that SW spot asap, but I don't think we've got strong enough military to do that yet.

Barb horsemen sounds a bit early, but I think we need a spear in Pasargadae just in case. After building ~ 10 archers we can move our Persepolis spear S with our archers.
Edit: I may need to clarify I'm in favour of finishing the barracks in Pasargadae before building any unit there..

If there's grassland under our roaded fur, we should chop it and then mine. That will bring one more food to the tile compared to now.

leif erikson

Apr 13, 2004, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick

I think we need to focus on military for your set of turns, zamint; archers that is.
We need another settler for that SW spot asap, but I don't think we've got strong enough military to do that yet.

Barb horsemen sounds a bit early, but I think we need a spear in Pasargadae just in case. After building ~ 10 archers we can move our Persepolis spear S with our archers.
Edit: I may need to clarify I'm in favour of finishing the barracks in Pasargadae before building any unit there..

If there's grassland under our roaded fur, we should chop it and then mine. That will bring one more food to the tile compared to now.

Good summary Capt. We have 10 turns to size 5 in Persepolis. That would be a good time to try to pop a settler, if we are in a position to do so.

We are getting off in timing a GL pre-build, but I don't see how we can sacrifice the shields at this point. Perhaps we should start thinking about capturing the GL instead of building it. There are advantages to capturing it later to boost us to tech parity, as long as we do not get Education before we capture it.
Check this discussion (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78782&perpage=20&pagenumber=12)

Doing this would allow us to concentrate on overcoming our slow start, focusing now on building military and expanding. I am having a hard time justifying the research time and build time to get the GL. If we are turning the corner, then I think we have to focus on that and not get distracted by the need to get the GL. This would allow us to focus on getting IW, HBR, or a focused research path to Monarchy. What are your thoughts on this?

zamint3

Apr 13, 2004, 08:33 AM

Here are my 10 turns

1500 Turn 0 :
Changed nothing.

1475 Turn 1 :
Persepolis completes archer -> archer
Archer SW-S onto fur.
Worker starts chopping wood.
Wounded archer fortifies.

1450 Turn 2 :
Aztec reg spear shows up on hill S.
Wounded archer retreats to fur with other archer.

1425 Turn 3 :
Aztec spear moves onto plain.
First archer dies without hurting spear, who promotes!!
Second archer kills spear, losing only one hitpoint.

1400 Turn 4 :
Barb warrior two tiles N of Pasargadae
Archers are fortified healing.
Pasargadae grows to pop 2 but the extra shield goes to waste.

1375 Turn 5 :
Persepolis completes archer-> archer.
Archer in Pasargadae kills barb warrior, no promotion.
New archer SW-S onto fur. Healed archer onto hill.

1350 Turn 6 :
Worker chops the wood there was only plain underneath!!
Worker moves to forrest W.
Northern archer retreats to Pasargadae.

1325 Turn 7 :
Persepolis completes archer -> archer.
Archer moves SW-S.
One archer scout further S, nothing.

1300 Turn 8 :
Pasargadae completes barracks -> archer.
Delay growth in Persepolis to produce archer in 2.
Archers are moving S.

1275 Turn 9 :
We are marching S.

1250 Turn 10 :
Persepolis completes archer-> settler
Archer fortified in Persepolis.

Score : Persia 80, Aztecs 123.

I have set production in Persepolis to settler, worker is done in 2 turns, so if we get the extra 2
shields on growth (??), we can have a settler in 3 turns and still keep max growth.
I guess the Aztecs have fallen asleep or are at war with the Babylonians. :)

The save is >>here<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team-X_1250BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Persia_1250_bc.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Dom_adv_1250.jpg

Capt Buttkick

Apr 13, 2004, 08:38 AM

We've got no probs not getting education if we don't want it. And I don't think the AI will get into the industrial age (and riflemen:eek: ) in a regent game before we can capture the GL so that seem to be a very good idea.
We need to see to it that we do capture it though. I don't know if it's possible, but I really don't want to see that city razed...
Btw: our pregame/early discussion about getting the GL has been thrown off course by the opening here. I had already abandoned hope about building it ourself.

And we need monarchy asap. Before IW imhso.

Edit:
Nice turns, Zamint :)
I'm working now and will be working late today, but I'll play my 10 turns later today; prob in 8 hours or so.

AlanH

Apr 13, 2004, 10:52 AM

That looks much better. Well done zamint3. Those archer <=> spear fights are really unpredictable. If we can get the JWs out in the open, with a spear to defend our archers, the JWs won't attack. Then we can come into our own. What does our mil adviser think of our chances against the Aztecs now?

AlanH - On Deck -
mabellino - Skipped after 24 hours no-show
leif erikson
zamint3
Capt Buttkick - UP -

I agree on letting go of the GL build. I think the Great Wonder we have to concentrate on is our own survival and the defeat of the Aztecs. I know for a fact that if we capture the GL it won't autoraze. I did it to the Persians in gotm28.

I'm not sure about leaving Iron until after Monarchy. I realise we'd prefer not to have a despotic golden age, but Immortals would give us a good chance of wiping out the Aztecs plus the Babylonians, with fewer problems along the way, and it would give us an accelerating kick to expand our small empire. Once we have writing we could even go for Map Reading and get out and meet someone else to trade for iron working. It's a small map, so maybe Immortals would be all we need to conquer it once we have a production machine running. They are as strong in attack as knights. They just lack the retreat option.

leif erikson

Apr 13, 2004, 12:06 PM

Very nice work Zamint3, looks like we may indeed have turned the corner. :goodjob:

Pulled down the save and checked a few things. The Aztecs have Pottery, The Wheel, IW and Myst. but do not have Alphabet. I think it is safe to assume that any of the civs in contact with Aztecs have at least the same. Looked at research and at 80%, we can have IW in 14 turns or Myst in 9 turns, that means no GPT.

The way things have gone, should the Aztecs start showing up with swords, we could be right back in the hole. At least with IW, and an iron source, we have the option to produce Immortals if we need them to defend ourselves, or begin conquest. :crazyeye: It seems that the Aztecs are in the way of any future contacts so trade seems remote at the moment. IW seems like the safe bet at this time.

Good luck Capt. Give those Aztecs a :spank: !!

edit - Forgot to say that research is your call Capt. ;)

Capt Buttkick

Apr 13, 2004, 05:16 PM

Turn 0 - 1250 B.C. Nothing.
IBT: Barb hut in the south pops a warrior.
Turn 1 – 1225 B.C. Persepolis size 5 --> I move our archers towards the southern hill.
IBT: 1 barb warrior moves NW.
Turn 2 - 1200 B.C. MM Persepolis for settler next turn. Archer attacks barb warrior and wins w/o HP loss. All other archers move after. Worker road.
Turn 3 – 1175 B.C. Writing finished, IW started at max, due in 12. Persepolis settler --> warrior. MM so Pasargadae will catch a worked grassland on next turn. Archer attacks barb camp and destroy it w/o HP loss. I will position archers so that they wait to pick off the Aztecs on the forest choke point. Archer moves out of Persepolis to join our army in the south.
Turn 4 – 1150 B.C. Pasargadae size 3 --> MM to get more sci for one turn. Worker moves E N NE. Our barb hunting archer moves a tile back NW to join the others. All archers fortify here.
Turn 5 – 1125 B.C. Pasargadae archer --> warrior. Persepolis warrior --> warrior. MM back to grasslands. Warriors will fortify in Persepolis to wait for upgrade come IW. Susa founded 3 SW of Persepolis, starts barracks. Pasargadae archer starts the hike south. Worker road.
Turn 6 – 1100 B.C. MM Pasargadae for more sci.
Turn 7 – 1075 B.C. Persepolis warrior --> warrior. Worker mine.
Turn 8 – 1050 B.C. Pasargadae warrior --> warrior. Pasargadae warrior moves to Persepolis.
Turn 9 – 1025 B.C. Persepolis warrior --> warrior. We now have 6 archers on the spot in the south. I’ll wait for the immortals though.
IBT: A lone vet Aztec archer appear from the south. We’ll wait to see if he wants to risk moving onto the forest ;)
Turn 10 – 1000 B.C. MM Pasargadae back --> producing warrior next turn.

<< Save >> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team-X_1000BC.SAV)

Plan is small immortal upgrade and then bring the :hammer: to the Aztecs.

Score: Persia 89 Aztecs 137.

leif erikson

Apr 13, 2004, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
Plan is small immortal upgrade and then bring the :hammer: to the Aztecs.

Sometimes quiet isn't so bad! Nice job getting some units built Capt. :soldier: And a new town too, a bonus. It's looking better all the time. :D Another worker and some roads to the south, priceless.

Once we find some Iron, it will be [party] time!

AlanH

Apr 13, 2004, 06:25 PM

AlanH - UP -
mabellino - On Deck - Will be dropped if AWOL second time around.
leif erikson
zamint3
Capt Buttkick

I'm off to bed after a v.late gotm30 night last night. I'll get it in about 18 hours and play by 24 hours time, I hope.

Nice work Captain. I'm even beginning to look forward to looking at the save this time ;)

zamint3

Apr 14, 2004, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick

Plan is small immortal upgrade and then bring the :hammer: to the Aztecs.

That's about time. :goodjob:

I agree in the change of plans, looking forward to the elevatorride. :lol: :lol: :lol:

If we want to meet other people we might try placing a warrior on the north-western tundra, hoping to see a passing by Zulu, Iroquois or American scout on the land across the sea.

Capt Buttkick

Apr 14, 2004, 04:27 AM

Sorry for not providing screenies. My comp crashed while I finished editing at 1:30 A.M.
I'll try to post one now:

Dotmap is here... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1-1000BC.JPG)

Edit: image wouldn't load on my comp so I linked to the URL instead.

I did a dotmap to indicate possible city placements. I think we should continue to roll out military with the occasional settler when Persepolis grows to size 5.

With our limited land area we need to go ICS or something close to that :p

My first idea was to work our way towards the dye as soon as possible. Then settle towards the south, option 1A-3A, the red dots. I'd settle these in order, 1 first.

Then I thought that settling first on the forest in the south, option 1B (yellow dot), and moving the bulk of our military down there may be good, specially if we get a couple of spears in and rush walls. The Aztec will fling themselves at the walls :evil: :cool:
We can then settle our northern lands relatively peacefully. This would be the option I'd reccomend if we had a decent settler factory.
However, since we're planning on hitting the Aztec soon anyway, I think we should go with the first option. City placement 1B may still be a good placement later on.

Be sure to provide protection for our settlers as they travel north.

Blue dots are for later use.

Good luck, Alan. Hope we've got iron... :rolleyes:

leif erikson

Apr 14, 2004, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
I did a dotmap to indicate possible city placements. I think we should continue to roll out military with the occasional settler when Persepolis grows to size 5.

With our limited land area we need to go ICS or something close to that :p

Thanks for the dotmap Capt. I agree that we need to go with a near ICS placement. I think I like your Plan B better though and I'll try to explain why:
1. Once we attack the Aztecs, we will need roads and infrastructure to the south to move forces and connect us with any luxs or resources because those Aztec cities are not going to be very productive. Building to the north might focus too much worker effort away from the south. As you said, we can settle the north relatively peacefully as we have time. My only concern up north is a barb upraising in the middle of our war with the Aztecs.
2. There has to be fresh water somewhere on this map :confused: and we know it isn't to the north. An infrastructure of cities and roads will facilitate our getting irrigated squares up to our core quicker and increase our capability to produce sheilds and GPT.

With IW in 2, we will need a settler or a worker free so that we can claim any iron that pops up. Just a thought as Alan begins his turns. Good luck Alan!
:cool:

edit - spelling?

Capt Buttkick

Apr 14, 2004, 11:37 AM

My take is that we'll prob get loads of slaves from an AW as it gets rolling, that should cover our worker needs in the south.
The reason for settling in the north is that we can then withdraw most all forces from the north for good (or at least til some of our rivals discover map making).
As for your second point, that's very valid. However, I'm tempted into gambling for a GL and then rush the FP in Azteca as soon as we can.

AlanH

Apr 14, 2004, 12:28 PM

Some thoughts on city placement:

I'm not sure, but I think ICS normally refers to a spacing of one clear tile between cities. The dot map is far from that. Two tiles between cities is my normal preferred pattern for the first core. However, this terrain requires individual placements, because of the shortage of good tiles and the long thin land mass, so generalised placement strategies are not going to help much.

I agree that we should expect to build a second core in the south, based on a Leader-FP build, adn this should happen soon. That will then become our power house. The current territory doesn't justify building many more cities.

I prefer just one more northern city, one tile NW of 1A to encompass some productive land and not crowd Pasagardae. A pop rushed temple at turn 10, plus three road segments, gets the dyes into our core and leaves very little spare land for barbs or AI settlers. Two more settlers for northern cities would consume 60 shields which can be used instead to build a few units to farm the northern barbs.

I'm thinking we want a couple of southern cities first - one tile SW of blue-dot (to get food out of a desert tile) and one tile south of 1B, then the northern one NW of 1A. Not sure about 3A. It doesn't assist with the road system, and there are very few productive tiles in that region, and it's 30 shields we could use towards military build to capture AI cities. All this might change when we learn where the iron is, of course.

I'll play now, get started on a settler, and see what we can do with that archer stack. The spear is not doing much good in Persepolis. I think he needs to move south.

Back soon ...

AlanH

Apr 14, 2004, 04:33 PM

1000 BC Turn 0 We have a stack of archers fortified NW of the forest choke point. I decide to move them into the forest to try to hold it as a stronger defensive position. There's an Aztec vet archer south of the forest. Move the spear out of Persepolis to Susa en route to help. Susa is going to expand shortly, so move the waiting worker to the grass tile ready to mine it.

IBT Aztec archer kills one of our archers and 2 JWs appear.
Perspolis warrior->warrior, Pasagardae warrior->warrior

975 BC Turn 1 Worker starts mine. Spear heads south out of Susa.
Aztec 4/4 JW retreats. Our Archer -> 2/4
Aztec 4/4 JW dies. Our Archer -> 2/4
Axtec 3/4 archer dies. Our Archer no damage

We can now see one 5/5 JW + one 1/4 JW + one 3/3 JW within reach of our last victorious archer. Also one 4/4 archer two tiles south. Our archer will probably die :(

IBT Aztec 5/5 JW kills our archer, red-lined. 3/3 JW approaches.
Iron Working completed -> Pottery.

950 BC Turn 2 We have iron on the southern hill (blue-dot on the dot map).
Aztec have iron. They also have communications with Zulus and Babylonians.
Sliders to 3.7.0 for Pottery in 4 turns at +1 gpt. Targeting Mapmaking.

IBT JW kills archer, red-lined. Persepolis warrior -> warrior. Too small to make a settler yet.

925 BC Turn 3 Archer kills Aztec archer -> 3/4

IBT JW attacks 3/4 archer fortifies in forest and retreats.
Pasagardae warrior -> warrior. Worker completes mine.

900 BC Turn 4 Worker starts road. Aztec stack south of forest is two archers. Our archers kill their archers and we are now Average vs Aztecs.

IBT One 1/4 JW backs out, he's had enough. Another JW appears on the hill.
Persepolis warrior->warrior

875 BC Turn 5 Our 3/4 archer returns to the forest, and the spear arrives to defend the remaining stack.

IBT JW approaches. Barb warrior in the north. Pottery completes -> Mapmaking. Worker completes road.

850 BC Turn 6 Archer kills barb warrior -> 2/4. Worker heads south to road towards the iron. Archer attacks and kills JW south of forest. Sees 5/5 JW +4/4 archer on hill 2 tiles south. Decide to move spear forwards to defend exposed archer.
Set for 10% science -> Mapmaking. We need more cash, as we already have 9 warriors and 40 gold (?) upgrade cost each. We'll have more warriors by the time iron is hooked up.

IBT The RNG shows exactly whose side it's on, yet again! 5/5 JW kills our spear, drops 3 hit points, and creates a Great Leader who heads south, probably see him again later as an army leader. Pasagardae and Persepolis complete warriors.

825 BC Turn 7 Aztecs now have a spear+settler on the southern hill with a 3/3 JW
There's also a 4/4 archer and that 2/5 JW two tiles south of our forest position. Our archer reterts to the forest. Our stack is now three archers.
Persepolis starts another warrior. Still not enough pop to build a settler. Set Pasagardae to worker. We need another improved tile as it has grown to pop 3.

IBT Aztecs offer peace. Sorry, sonny, that's not in our rule book :D
McCauley tells us that the largest nations in the world are Aztec/Iroquois/Babs/Zulu/America/Persia.
3/3 JW and 4/4 archer draw nigh.

800 BC Turn 8 Archer attacks archer and dies. Aztec archer promotes to 2/5.
Archer attacks 3/3 JW and kills. ->2/4
Arhcer kills 2/5 archer with no damage. He's exposed to a 3/3 JW. The spear/settler are on the adjacent southern tile.

IBT 3/3 JW attacks our archer and dies. Archer redlines then promotes to 2/5.
Aztec settler builds city where he stands.
Persepolis completes warrior and *now* we can build a settler, as pop will increae to 5 before it completes. Worker completes road section. America completes Oracle.

775 BC Turn 9 Archer retreats out of the new Aztec city limits into the forest - we now have 2 left from our original stack of 6. We are weak compared with Aztecs. Worker moves SE towards the iron.

IBT pasagardae worker -> warrior.

750 BC Turn 10 South Worker starts road. 9 warriors move to Susa where the barracks will complete next turn. North worker moves to grass tile with archer/warrior escort.

Report: I'm not sure my generalship was all that hot during these turns. I might replay them and see if there was a better way to use the archers. Because of the JW retreat I think we only took out three of them, plus 3 archers, for the loss of four of our brave archers and a rather dodgy spear - I think he was an Aztec in disguise.

The worker will complete the current iron road section in 2 turns. My thought was that he could then just road the iron - three more turns. By the time he finishes we'll have a settler who can build our next city south east of the iron. So in seven turns we can upgrade a stack of warriors in Susa. We *could* build a colony on the iron, but I feel it would be better to preserve the worker. Plus I think we should wait until their new city grows to pop 2 before we attack it, as I think it would be good to keep it. It's two tiles south of the 1B position.

The main concern would be that the JWs might overrun our forward forest defence and reach our new city before we can get the Immortals out to provide an active defence. We might want to draw our remaining archers back to the hills, out of JW range of their city and try to use them as snipers to take out JWs as they move north.

Firaxis score is 96.

Here's a screenshot

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_TeamX_750BC.jpg

And the >>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_TeamX_0750BC.zip)

Capt Buttkick

Apr 14, 2004, 05:09 PM

The city on or around the iron will be pretty useless anyway. I think we should build our next city on the iron and use our worker for more pressing tasks. I'd like to see him road southwards to ensure swift reinforcements once we go on the attack.
I'm not sure Xochicalco will grow beyond size 1 very quickly. The Aztec are pretty ruthlesss when it comes to whipping. :whipped:
However, I don't think waiting for some immortals will hurt our chances :cool:

I don't want to be too argumantative, but I said ICS or close to that. Two of my suggested city placements leave one tile between cities and the rest have two tiles between cities. While not being cramped, it's pretty tight.
When it comes to tight vs. jammed city placement, we're a long way off the OCN yet so every new city will bring at least 1gc and 1 shield pt extra to our civ. If we're going to hit max pop in Persepolis anyway, might as well pump out settlers and take advantage.

AlanH

Apr 14, 2004, 05:32 PM

Yes, I was surprised to see Texcoco at size 2 already, but that gave me some hope that they'd get Xochicalco up.

The irontown will indeed be pretty useless - size will never get beyond two until we irrigate its plains or build a harbour. So lets just look at it from the point of view of worker turns and ignore the city itself.

We can either road the hill and build the city on the desert or vice versa. In the short term we save two worker turns by building the city on the desert because a desert road costs 2 turns and a hill road costs 3, but iron is a bonus resource and we get an extra spt without a three turn mine. In the longer term irrigation may be another reason for putting in on the desert - it will work as a pipeline there, which it won't if it's on the iron hill, saving us another two or three worker turns.

AlanH

Apr 14, 2004, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
When it comes to tight vs. jammed city placement, we're a long way off the OCN yet so every new city will bring at least 1gc and 1 shield pt extra to our civ. If we're going to hit max pop in the city anyway, might as well pump out settlers and take advantage of that fact. Good point. We'll need to build a granary to pump settlers at any decent rate. I almost switched Persepolis to a granary when we learned Pottery, but I was paranoid about getting the iron hooked up so I went for a settler as soon as I could. I could see our archer stack dwindling, and the Aztecs switching production to swords, and our warriors being next for the chopping block, and felt we had to get the Immortals mobilised.

Capt Buttkick

Apr 14, 2004, 05:41 PM

Ah, in the middle of my editing...
I'll continue here then :)
The most important arguement I hold for a tight city placement is that we can pump out lots of military and still have a good economy (due to free units per town).

Isolated, I agree on your discussion about were to settle. It just leaves us with fewer cityplacements north of the chokepoint (where I'm determined we build a city for flexible naval combat later on).

Edit:
It's not a game breaker so I think we should vote on it or let the next guy decide city placement.
I agree we need to get iron asap though.
Btw: :goodjob:

AlanH

Apr 14, 2004, 05:51 PM

The Aztecs have already built us a nice canal city :D

Looking at packing them in for an near-ICS - with my desert plot you can have another on the hill north of the iron, and two more on the west coast plains. There's a plains canal site north west of the forest. Preserving the choke point forest gets us ten more shields.

Capt Buttkick

Apr 14, 2004, 06:15 PM

M, you're right about the canal city.
And looking at the terrain we've got here, we may benefit from a very tight placement like the one you mentioned there.

AlanH

Apr 14, 2004, 06:43 PM

Here's a dot map we could use if we want to go near-ICS. I've shown blue lines where there's east-west canal passage provided by existing cities and one of the new ones.

We certainly need more cities, as our unit maintanance is still non-zero even after my attempts to massacre our troops :blush:

edit - picture updated to show the tiles that can be worked by each city.

edit #2 - Actually, not optimum now that I look at it again. Persepolis should work one of the plains tiles to its south west, and the new town to its north west can work the hill instead of a coast.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_TeamX_DotsLines_750B.jpg

leif erikson

Apr 14, 2004, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
My take is that we'll prob get loads of slaves from an AW as it gets rolling, that should cover our worker needs in the south.
The reason for settling in the north is that we can then withdraw most all forces from the north for good (or at least til some of our rivals discover map making).
As for your second point, that's very valid. However, I'm tempted into gambling for a GL and then rush the FP in Azteca as soon as we can.

Thanks for the explanation Capt. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. Our RNG friend may not provide us with a GL until the last turn of the game. :lol:

Sorry, I have been out for a while. I assume that we are on a 24-hour hold while checking on Mabellino's status.

Good job holding your own Alan. I didn't expect so much combat, guess the Aztecs are getting sensitive to our units being so close to their borders, or they have made peace with their neighbor and are thinking about coming to get us. ;)

Good discussion on city placement, I learned a lot from it. The dot map looks pretty good but it is going to take a while to fill all those placements. With 5 cities layed out, and possibly two more up north, that is 210 shields worth of production and 14 pop. Looks like we may need to prioritize how we want to fill in the area. I hope we have our Aztec friends well in hand long before we get these cities all built.

For discussion purposes, I added some numbers to Alan's map to propose build order.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_TeamX_DotsLines_750Priority.jpg

AlanH

Apr 15, 2004, 03:18 AM

Oops! Didn't post the roster :blush:

AlanH
mabellino[b] - UP - Will be dropped if AWOL second time around.
leif erikson - On Deck -
zamint3
Capt Buttkick

I'll PM mabellino again, but I think he's gone now. Very rude not even to say goodbye :confused:

Good thinking on city prioritisation, leif. I'd swap 2 and 5 in order to improve movement south.

Also, I agree we need to think about the settler cost of ICS vs. the alternative of just building three more cities and then concentrating on conquest for expansion. With a single city building settlers the best we can do is one every 10 turns, so this is not a short term project. I'll try to use this 24 hour hiatus to model it, as well as the raw shield cost there's a complex mix of reduced pop in the settler pump, cost of the necessary granary, settler pump stealing food from another city to maintain growth rate at pop 5 ...

Capt Buttkick

Apr 15, 2004, 05:00 AM

I spotted game in Azteca :)
I think we should go for conquest for now and if all works out well, we should have a very nice settler city down there.
Let's clear out this continent with out immortals :hammer:

leif erikson

Apr 15, 2004, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
I spotted game in Azteca :)
I think we should go for conquest for now and if all works out well, we should have a very nice settler city down there.
Let's clear out this continent with out immortals :hammer:

I think you have hit the nail on the head Capt. The start position is so restricted that the best solution is to take someone else's start position. Got to get that Iron connected, upgrade to Immortals and hope the RNG God does not deny us a GL. I think s/he owes us? :eek:

edit - Zamint3, better put on that General's uniform, I hope to have things ready for you to start :ar15:

Thanks for the roster update Alan. Let me know when to GO! ;)

zamint3

Apr 15, 2004, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by leif erikson
Zamint3, better put on that General's uniform, I hope to have things ready for you to start :ar15:

I'll start yelling at the kids to get in the right mood. :D

I agree in the military build up as priority #1

We should draw back our archers to the hills, we have one elite archer, and I'm sure we'll get a GL at first hit. :lol: :cry: :lol: :cry: :lol:

Question:
When the Aztecs discover writing they will be able to trade communications, doesn't that mean we'll get contacted by the others civs soon after that. ( Or at least the Babs and the Zulu) :confused:

AlanH

Apr 15, 2004, 09:46 AM

950 BC Turn 2 We have iron on the southern hill (blue-dot on the dot map).
Aztec have iron. They also have communications with Zulus and Babylonians.
Sliders to 3.7.0 for Pottery in 4 turns at +1 gpt. Targeting Mapmaking.

The Aztecs already have writing, as I reported that they have communications with Zulu and Babs for sale. You're quite right, they should have sold us to them by now and we should have been emailed, unless they are already at war with them both.

AlanH

Apr 15, 2004, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by leif erikson
Thanks for the roster update Alan. Let me know when to GO! ;) I know I didn't formally indicate mabellino was UP until today, but that's academic given that s/he isn't reading mail or logging in at all. If we don't hear from him/her by midnight UK time I'll declare a skip.

I hope nothing dire has happened.

leif erikson

Apr 15, 2004, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by AlanH
The Aztecs already have writing, as I reported that they have communications with Zulu and Babs for sale. You're quite right, they should have sold us to them by now and we should have been emailed, unless they are already at war with them both.

Just checked the save and Aztecs do have contact with Zulu and Bab but they do not yet have Writing. I think we can trade contacts because we have Writing, must be a monopoly - if we could only trade?? :rolleyes: Aztecs are two techs ahead of us, The Wheel and Myst. I think this is why we have not heard from anyone else yet.

Does anyone know if the rules allow us to use utilities such as mapstat?

I'll be up around 6 PM my itme to check on status. If I get it then, you will be waking up to it!:confused: :lol: :lol:

AlanH

Apr 15, 2004, 12:51 PM

Sorry, I forgot we actually have some techs of our own :blush:

Mapstat is usually reserved for when you are getting towards domination. Its use at this stage is not banned as far as I know, but does tend to remove some of the mystery. Also, I only know the version 2 capabilities - really just the ability to count tiles. I believe the latest version has more capability to give you spoiler information?

As you are in the Eastern time zone, and if we hear nothing from mabelino, I'll make sure I declare a skip in time for you to play tonight. Then we can pick it up in Europe tomorrow morning.

zamint3

Apr 15, 2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by zamint3

....we might try placing a warrior on the north-western tundra, hoping to see a passing by Zulu, Iroquois or American scout on the land across the sea.
I still think we should try this, while we have a tech to trade.
We'll need all our money for the immortal upgrade, and before we discover MM or get by the Aztecs we'll be behind in tech. I think! :confused:

I hope the Aztecs will give you a peaceful night, Leif. :D :D

leif erikson

Apr 15, 2004, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by zamint3
I hope the Aztecs will give you a peaceful night, Leif. :D :D

You just want them all for yourself so you can spare your poor children!!:D :D :D :D

I will try to get a warrior up to the north. I have done this in other scenarios and it does pay off big if you get lucky, and we could use a little bit of that now. The only problem I can see is if they have Map Making and we have to declare war on them, a civ attacking us from the rear would not make your next turns very much fun.:confused: :crazyeye:

The reason I asked about Mapstat is because I used it to check the 750BC turn just to see how big the other civs are and didn't want to post if we weren't to use it. The stats were interesting.

Civ tiles pop
Per. 41 9
Azt. 89 15
Zulu 39 7
Bab. 56 8
Irq. 62 8
Amer. 53 9

This tells me the Aztecs have a pretty sweet spot, unless they have conquered someone (like the Zulu), and it will be nice to take it from them. Based on their size, it may not be as easy as I hoped. The sooner the better though.

See you in a while.:sheep:

edit - Doesn't do tables well, does it. Tried to tidy it up a little but to no avail. :o

AlanH

Apr 15, 2004, 06:37 PM

AlanH
leif erikson - UP -
zamint3 - On Deck -
Capt Buttkick

Nothing from mabellino. Now dropped from the roster.

Mr Ericson! Front and center, if you please, sir? You're UP. Good hunting. Don't worry about overseas civs. They are rubbish at seaborne invasion. It will divert a couple of Immortals up there, but it's a small price to pay for getting on with business.

leif erikson

Apr 15, 2004, 07:43 PM

Got it!

AlanH

Apr 15, 2004, 07:49 PM

How about if we make virtue of necessity and play this for 5CC AW conquest then? ;)

leif erikson

Apr 15, 2004, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by AlanH

Mr Erikson! Front and center, if you please, sir? You're UP. Good hunting. Don't worry about overseas civs. They are rubbish at seaborne invasion. It will divert a couple of Immortals up there, but it's a small price to pay for getting on with business.

We had some excellent, and unexpected, hunting. It came looking for me but I think we're about ready to go looking for them. ;)

Originally posted by zamint3

I hope the Aztecs will give you a peaceful night, Leif.

It sure didn't end up that way! Life sure is easier with Immortals.

Turn Log

Turn 0 – Pre-flight checks.
Wake both archers in the wooded chokepoint and move them N.
Everything else looks good. Press enter.

IBT
Susa builds a Barracks-->Warrior

Turn 1 – 730 BC
Fortify all 8 warriors in Susa
Archers move NW onto hill.
Northern warrior N, meets Barb.
Northern worker road.
Northern Archer fortify.

IBT
Persepolis grows to size 5, micromanage for food as extra shields would be wasted.
Barb attacks warrior, we win, no damage.
Another Barb moves to the N of us.

Turn 2 – 710 BC
Northern warrior attacks N, Barb, we win, no loss, no promotion.
Southern worker finishes road moves onto Iron Hill.
Southern Archers fortify.

IBT
Pasargadae warrior-->warrior.

Turn 3 – 690 BC
Pasargadae warrior SE, S, SW.
Northern worker mine.
Northern warrior NW.
Southern worker road.
Southern vet. Archer fortifies after healing.

IBT
Persepolis settler-->warrior.
A vet Aztec Archer moves into the wooded chokepoint.

Turn 4 – 670 BC
Settler moves SW, W, S, into Susa.
Warrior from Pasargadae moves SW, S into Susa and fortifies.
Elite Archer fortifies on hill.
Northern Warrior W, meets a Barb warrior.

IBT
Barb attacks our warrior, we win and we lose one HP.
Vet Aztec Archer moves north.
Vet Aztec Archer and vet Aztec Spear moves into wooded chokepoint.
Susa warrior-->warrior.

Turn 5 – 650 BC
New Warrior fortifies.
Settler SE, SE, S.
Northern warrior W, finds Barb camp on the end of the peninsula.
Wake vet Archer and attack SE, vet Aztec Archer, defeat him with no loss of HP.

IBT
Vet Aztec Archer attacks our Archer and defeats him with no loss of HP. Both the Archer and Spear advance.
Persepolis warrior-->warrior.
Pasargadae warrior-->warrior.

Turn 6 – 630 BC
Pasargadae warrior SE, S, SW.
Northern worker S, SE, S.
Northern warrior fortifies to heal.
Persepolis warrior SW, W, S into Susa.
Southern worker completes road on Iron, moves NW, N.
Settler founds Arbela à Barracks. We now have Iron!!!!
Wake warriors in Susa and upgrade, at 40 gold each, 8 to Immortal. Not a moment too soon. Move one warrior to Arbela (just to make me feel better). :blush:
Fortify remaining warrior in Susa.
I am debating on whether to attack the Aztecs with our elite archer. I decide to attack and wake the archer. He defeats the spear, losing 3 HP. Now he is unfortified, on the hill facing a vet archer. :cry:

IBT
Aztec vet archer attacks our elite archer and defeats him losing 2 HP.
Susa and Pasargadae gained Pop points.

Turn 7 – 610 BC
Warrior in Arbela back to Susa..
Southern worker road.
Warrior in Susa fortifies.
7 Immortals move SW and S onto hill above Arbela.
1 Immortal moves into Arbela.
Pasargadae warrior moves into Susa and fortifies.
Northern worker S and S, joins southern worker.
Northern warrior attacks W, Barb camp, defeats barb losing 1 HP and earns 25 gold.
Wake a vet warrior in Susa and upgrade to Immortal.

IBT
Vet Aztec Archer fortifies on hill to heal.

Turn 8 – 590 BC
Worker road.
Warrior fortifies in Susa.
Immortal in Susa moves to Arbela.
7 Immortals on hill move SW onto hill.
Immortal in Arbela W onto hill, joins his 7 brothers.
Northern warrior fortifies.

IBT
A vet Aztec Archer moves out of the wooded chokepoint N.
A regular Army consisting of 2 regular Jaguar Warriors and 1 elite JW moves out of the wooded chokepoint N and N to the desert square beside Arbela. Look like we got those Immortals just in time!! :eek:

Turn 9 – 570 BC
Immortal attacks from hill SE, JW Army, JW army retreats down to 1 HP while our Immortal loses 2 HP. I like this type of combat!!
Immortal attacks south, vet Archer on hill now ¾, and defeats him losing 2 HP. We have entered a Golden Age.
5 Immortals move S onto hill.
1 Immortal moves SE to protect brother Immortal.
Immortal in Arbela advances SW.
Wake a warrior in Susa and move him to Arbela.
Northern warrior heals, fortify.
One worker chops
The other worker moves S, S, SW.

IBT
Aztec vet Archer attacks N, our Immortal, and is defeated. We lose 2 HP.
JW Army moves south into wooded chokepoint.
Reg. Aztec spear moves north into wooded chokepoint.

Turn 10 – 550 BC
Southern worker road.
2/4 Immortals fortify.
4/4 Immortal south.
2/4 Immortal on hill fortifies.
5 vet Immortals S onto plain, 10% defensive bonus. Spot a vet Aztec Archer 1 square S of wooded chokepoint.
Warrior in Arbela fortifies.

After action report.
We are average versus Aztec military. We have 9 Immortals, 2 more due in one turn, 1 more due in two turns, 1 Archer and 7 warriors. We are paying 3 GPT to support our armies. We destroyed 3 Archers and 1 Spear while seriously wounding the Aztec JW Army (down to 1 HP but healing in the wooded chokepoint). There are 6 vet Immortals adjacent to the wooded chokepoint and three Immortals fortified and healing close by. We built a town, claimed Iron and entered a Golden Age (we are 1 turn into Golden Age). There is 59 Gold in the treasury and we are earning 20 GPT. I have not turned up the research slider nor have I performed any upgrades, left for next player. Pasargadae is at 4 pop points and I had it set up to produce an Immortal and then a settler with no loss of shield, then the golden Age came. That will have to be reworked, but I think we can get a settler out of there soon. There is a warrior up north where zamint3 suggested.
Aztec contacts and tech remain the same. The Aztecs have 7 cities.

Our Firaxis score is 104 and Aztec score is 170.

<< The Save >> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team-X_550BC.SAV)

Good Luck zamint3 and Happy Hunting!!!! [dance]

Screen shot will follow next post.

leif erikson

Apr 15, 2004, 09:42 PM

The 550 BC situation.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_XMEN_550BC.jpg

Capt Buttkick

Apr 16, 2004, 02:06 AM

Well done, Leif. :goodjob:
Pity their army retreated :lol:
Not much to say about the sit now, I guess. Good luck, Zamint3 :thumbsup:

zamint3

Apr 16, 2004, 02:17 AM

Nice to see that you have left some of the good stuff for me. :goodjob:

Sorry to hear about our elite archer, but don't worry we'll have lots of elite immortals in no time. :cool:

Aztec contacts and tech remain the same.
Actually now they have discovered writing, so they may trade their contact with us to the Babylonians or the Zulu. We just might get lucky and do some trading, and as Alan said : the AI suck at overseas invasions. :D

And the Aztecs do not have iron yet, so I guess what we are seeing now is the beginning of the end for the Aztecs [punch]

I think I'll keep research at 10%, as we need cash for unit cost and some eventual trade. Pasargadae will pop 1-2 immortals and then a Settler.

I'll have to go to work now, :( so I won't play for another 6 hours, but then the Aztecs can expect this :hammer: this :ar15: and this :sniper:

AlanH

Apr 16, 2004, 03:51 AM

Excellent progress, leif. Now we're rolling! Go get 'em zamint3.

AlanH
leif erikson
zamint3 - UP -
Capt Buttkick - On Deck -

I suggested sticking at 5 cities as I've seen our graph, and it could do with an extra bonus. As we are so low on cities maybe we should hold at five? I think our Immortals are going to slice through the Aztecs now like a knife through butter. if we grab and hold a couple of their choicest cities we can complete map making, turn off research and focus totally on building Immortals and galleys, and get out there and wipe out the world.

Note to mad-bax: I've updated my previous listing with this save and score. Let me know if you want me to change this.

Capt Buttkick

Apr 16, 2004, 07:00 AM

W/r to a 5CC:
How many cities are needed to build the FP on a small map?

If we could wipe out the Aztecs getting 1 really good city and then build up for a war against the zulu or the babs, maybe we could capture enough cities in one turn to start a FP and then abandon the cities at the end of our turn? We could then keep only the most productive cities in the north and move to a better core.
Might be a bit too ambitious... :lol:

leif erikson

Apr 16, 2004, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by AlanH
I suggested sticking at 5 cities as I've seen our graph, and it could do with an extra bonus. As we are so low on cities maybe we should hold at five?

Alan, is this going to be another of those great suggestions of yours, like AW? :crazyeye: :lol: :D :D Since we have had so much fun thus far, why not add to it and give it a try.:rolleyes: Azteca may offer us all we need. I can see it now, Persepolis up north and 4 cities around a forbidden palace in former Azteca. We would have to keep our eyes peeled for Barb upraisings.

I'm not sure I would halt research because I'm a mounted warrior kind of guy. I would like to get to Knights, but this could be done, very slowly, with a scientist somewhere.

Originally posted by zamint3
Nice to see that you have left some of the good stuff for me. :goodjob:

I couldn't deny you the pleasure. :lol:

Finishing up last night, forgot to check the tech status in the game so used Ainwood's Trade Assistant utility and it said two techs. I forgot that the Aztecs could have the same one we did?? :o I had had too much fun to worry about it.:beer:

I learned, yet again, that if you can't beat the RNG, overpower it!:tank:

Good Luck zamint3.

leif erikson

Apr 16, 2004, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
W/r to a 5CC:
How many cities are needed to build the FP on a small map?
Ooops, we cross posted. This is an excellent point because in MB's rules for modified RBCiv:
Originally posted by Mad Bax
15. No palace moves at all after 10BC. This is not an RBCiv rule, but I'm making it anyway. NO EXCEPTIONS. If the AI sack your capital after 10BC you'll lose the scoring bonus. Serves you right.
If we can not build a FP, then we have to move the capital down to Azteca. It presents an interesting problem. The scoring bonus for 5 CC is greater than the 7% for living with RBCiv rules, I think. Alan, you present us with another interesting dilema. :lol: :D

AlanH

Apr 16, 2004, 07:27 AM

Knights aren't really going to give us that much advantage. The offence stats are the same as our 4 point Immortals, but they move a bit faster. And defence? Who needs defence? As long as we can produce Immortals fast enough to replace the losses because of lack of retreat I don't see the point of spending on all those techs. I'd rather cut Pasagardae loose from the iron to build a stack of warriors, save the gold for upgrades, and go for the other civs flat out while there are no pikes around.

I suppose I'm influenced by the speed of akot's victory. I haven't looked at their thread, but it seems to me they must have finished the game with Immortals to have won in 360 AD.

I'm guessing six cities may be all that's needed for an FP on a small map, so we'd only have to capture one extra city, switch production to FP, abandon a city and hit next turn. But whether the RNG - our extra rival - will be kind enough to provide a great leader at the appropriate time is another matter. I think it's an opportunity we should watch out for, but not build our whole plan around.

AlanH

Apr 16, 2004, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by leif erikson
Ooops, we cross posted. This is an excellent point because in MB's rules for modified RBCiv:

If we can not build a FP, then we have to move the capital down to Azteca. It presents an interesting problem. The scoring bonus for 5 CC is greater than the 7% for living with RBCiv rules, I think. Alan, you present us with another interesting dilema. :lol: :D

We're a long way from 10 BC ;) 26 turns to be precise. In 26 turns we should have plenty of choice about where we build what, and we might well have a leader to help.

zamint3

Apr 16, 2004, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by AlanH

I suppose I'm influenced by the speed of akot's victory. I haven't looked at their thread, but it seems to me they must have finished the game with Immortals to have won in 360 AD.

It says BC on the Maintenance Thread, we can do 360 AD :D

AlanH

Apr 16, 2004, 08:18 AM

Yep! :blush: That's what I meant, and that's what inspired me to consider a quick finish. Not only does it mean they finished with Immortals, but they must have reached the remote AI with galleys. The only hazard is they might have used the Lighhouse. Let's compute assuming we don't need the lighthouse:

We get mapmaking in 22 turns. We should have the local AI pretty well mopped up by then. That's Aztecs, Babs and Zulus. Build a bunch of galleys and ship our Immortals to the other two rivals - say 10 turns. Another 10 turns will probably destroy the Iroquois and the Americans. I think your estimate of 350 AD may be pessimistic.

zamint3

Apr 16, 2004, 10:03 AM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Xochicalco_destroyed.jpg

And the rest in a few minutes. :D

zamint3

Apr 16, 2004, 10:29 AM

Here it comes:

Turn 0 : 550 BC
Upgraded warrior in Susa

Turn 1 : 530 BC
Aztec army has retreated to Xochicalco.
We’ll keep producing immortals, but we lose a lot of shields.
Pasargadae is producing 9 spt, not a good number!
Immortal kills Aztec archer on the forrest, we move all 6 to the forrest.

Turn 2 : 510 BC
We now have waste in Persepolis, meaning 9 spt here as well.
We kill two archers coming out of Xochicalco, losing one hitpoint.

Turn 3 : 490 BC
We attack Xochicalco, killing two spear and the JW army, losing two immortals, we get one promotion 4/5 elite.
Only archers back in Xochicalco.

Turn 4 : 470 BC
Archer kills one of our Imm, we kill spear + archer.
We now have immortal SOD outside Xochicalco.

Turn 5 : 450 BC
We destroy Xochicalco killing two archers, no losses, no promotions.

Turn 6 : 430 BC
We kill two archers on hill, but lose one immortal.

Turn 7 : 410 BC
We kill archer on hill W of Texcoco.

Turn 8 : 390 BC
SOD on hill W of Texcoco.

Turn 9 : 370 BC
We take Texcoco, killing two spears and one archer losing one
immortal. We get one slave and there is barracks in Texcoco.

Turn 10 : 350 BC
The babylonians completed the pyramids.
Three units healing in Texcoco.
8 immortals on hill W of Texcoco, 4 can still move. I’ll leave the
decision to you Capt.

Score : Persia 113, Aztecs 183.

We have 5 cities now, unit cost down to one. Barracks in one turn in Arbela (we could change this
to an immortal if we want to abandon Arbela later?). 9 spt in Persepolis and Pasargadae is not
optimal. We have 9 (I think.) turns left in our Golden Age. The Aztecs would very much like a
peace-deal. They don’t have iron, and no new techs. Nothing happened up north-west.

The save is >>here<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team-X_350BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Persia_350_bc.jpg

and here's something I don't believe we have seen before. :cool:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Strong_military1.jpg

AlanH

Apr 16, 2004, 10:41 AM

Great news, zamint3. Two Aztec cities down and more to come. Still no contact with Babs and the Zulus? :confused: The Babylonian pyramids will look nice in our trophy case. It can't be long now before we meet them in person. It could be you, Captain!

AlanH - On Deck -
leif erikson
zamint3
Capt Buttkick - UP -

AlanH

Apr 16, 2004, 11:37 AM

We need to maximise the extra shieds we are getting during the remaining GA turns. Here are some suggestions:

We can reduce waste in Persepolis and Pasagardae and produce a couple more Immortals during this period. Change tile assignments so that Pasagardae produces 12 spt less 2 waste after the current build completes. It will then produce an Immortal every three turns. Can't do it now because it only has 9 shields in the box. Persepolis grows in 2 turns and can then produce 8 shields per turn until we get around to mining its other grass. 8spt still gets us an Immortal every 4 turns.

leif erikson

Apr 16, 2004, 11:51 AM

Congrats Zamint3, looking good! :goodjob:

Wish I had time to think about this scoring a little harder. Firaxis score is determined by number of happy citizens and other citizens averaged over your number of turns. Jason is basically figured by getting to the domination limit as quickly as possible and finishing as soon as possible (bonus for early finish). 5 CC will keep us well under the domination limit I would think. Seizing and integrating cities would push us up quickly to domination limit. What I am wondering is how much bonus one gets from 5 CC versus trying to maximize pop and take tiles? :confused: :o

I am not too worried about whatever we do because I'm learning a lot and enjoying the experience. Everyone has been great and I'm ready to try whatever you all want to do. It seems the scoring almost has too much to do with how we conduct the campaign. Just wondering. :)

Go get 'em Capt., good luck!:ar15:

AlanH

Apr 16, 2004, 02:09 PM

What do you guess will be our victory date if we delay for domination and therefore don't do 5CC?

Assuming we can get an AW/5CC conquest win in about 300 AD that gives us an estimated final Firaxis score of 500 base plus (2050-300) x 5 = 9250. This is high becuse of the two levels of difficulty increase, and it translates to a Jason score of 24890!

If we abandon 5CC but stick with AW, and reach domination in 1000 AD, just for illustration purposes, we need a Firaxis score of about 7000 to match this Jason score. Our Firaxis bonus would be (2050-1000) x 4 = 4200, so we'd need 2800 base score. I don't think that's possible.

zamint3

Apr 16, 2004, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by AlanH

Change tile assignments so that Pasagardae produces 12 spt less 2 waste after the current build completes. It will then produce an Immortal every three turns.
Actually I intended to do that, must have forgotten in the heat of the battle. :blush:

I did a little testing, and I think we need 7 cities to build FP on this map, so we'll only need to take to cities in the same turn, and then abandon two before next turn. :cool:

AlanH

Apr 16, 2004, 03:49 PM

I guess the key question we should address now is do we want to play this for score or for kicks? If we girls 'just wanna have fun' then we should choose a victory option that will give us most enjoyment. If we want to get the best score we can then I think a 5CC/AW/Conquest win looks the best way to go.

Maybe we should have a quick straw poll.

As I am competitive by nature I would go for the score option. Even though we can't win, I'd like to see how much we can improve on the score graph. But if you want to do something else I'm enjoying your company and I'm more than happy to play along.

leif erikson

Apr 16, 2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by AlanH
What do you guess will be our victory date if we delay for domination and therefore don't do 5CC?

Assuming we can get an AW/5CC conquest win in about 300 AD that gives us an estimated final Firaxis score of 500 base plus (2050-300) x 5 = 9250. This is high becuse of the two levels of difficulty increase, and it translates to a Jason score of 24890!

If we abandon 5CC but stick with AW, and reach domination in 1000 AD, just for illustration purposes, we need a Firaxis score of about 7000 to match this Jason score. Our Firaxis bonus would be (2050-1000) x 4 = 4200, so we'd need 2800 base score. I don't think that's possible.

O.K., you sold me. I'm always up for a challenge. :D The real question is whether my abilities as a player are?:lol:

5 CC/AW/RBCiv/Conquest sounds fine by me. May as well take the most difficult challenge and go for it. The worst we can do is lose! :cry:

Originally posted by zamint3
I did a little testing, and I think we need 7 cities to build FP on this map, so we'll only need to take to cities in the same turn, and then abandon two before next turn. :cool:

The only problem will be the RNG God granting us a GL! Unfortunately, I couldn't find a smiley that begs.
:D
edit - syntax repair :crazyeye:

AlanH

Apr 16, 2004, 05:07 PM

Assume we'll have to take out 25 more AI cities for conquest. We lost two Immortals in ten turns taking two cities. On this basis we'll lose 25 more Immortals in 12 more turns of warfare. We have 17 Immortals right now, of which we need to keep back 5 or 6 for MP duties. so we need to build maybe 15 more for front line duty.

We have 9 more turns of GA. During that time we can build 5 or 6 Immortals. Once the GA is over we'll be producing about three Immortals every ten turns. So we can have our additional requirement in thirty turns.

We then need to find galleys to get eight or ten of them to the overseas territories. 3 or 4 galleys should be able to ferry them over at a sufficient rate to wage that war, and they cost the same 30 shields as an Immortal. 10 turns will deliver the galleys.

So even using the facilities we have now, and without a production boost from an FP, I think we can complete the necessary production and conquer the world in under 50 turns.

leif erikson

Apr 16, 2004, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by AlanH
So even using the facilities we have now, and without a production boost from an FP, I think we can complete the necessary production and conquer the world in under 50 turns.

The longer I know you, the more I like your math! :cool: As long as Zamint3 and Capt. Buttkick are game, let's go for it!! :thumbsup:

zamint3

Apr 17, 2004, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by AlanH
If we girls 'just wanna have fun' 5CC/AW/Conquest sounds like fun to me. :cool:

With so many immortals and AW, we will get a GL soon, we should try and heal and save our elites for the sure hits. :lol:

I'm game! :thumbsup: :cooool:

zamint3

Apr 17, 2004, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by AlanH
So even using the facilities we have now, and without a production boost from an FP, I think we can complete the necessary production and conquer the world in under 50 turns. That means I'll only be playing one more time.
:cry: :cry: :cry:

Capt Buttkick

Apr 17, 2004, 06:24 AM

Well done, Zamint3.

Originally posted by zamint3
That means I'll only be playing one more time.
:cry: :cry: :cry:

:lol: Don't sell your chickens before I've played :ack:

I'm not really into the sgotms for score, but it seems like the highest scoring variant will be the most exciting one anyway :cool:

Got it, will play my turns as soon as I log off.

leif erikson

Apr 17, 2004, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick

:lol: Don't sell your chickens before I've played :ack:

Know exactly how you feel!! :crazyeye:

Originally posted by zamint3

That means I'll only be playing one more time.
:cry: :cry: :cry:

Hate to admit it but when after reading Alan's post, counting turns was the first thing I did! :eek: Great minds think alike?? :goodjob:

Go get 'em Capt. Look forward to reading about your progress!:hammer: Good luck with the RNG.:rolleyes:

AlanH

Apr 17, 2004, 07:36 AM

Do you guys want to reduce the turns per session to 5?

Capt Buttkick

Apr 17, 2004, 11:08 AM

Turn 0 – 350 B.C. Nothing
Turn 1 – 330 B.C. Arbela barracks --> immortals. Worker pair builds road. 2 immortals move south from Arbela, another immortal continues S along the road. Our SoD immortals move SW, I’m trying to lure their archer to move.
IBT: 2 Aztec archer (1 vet, 1 reg) show up SE of our SoD. Another appears on the hill S SW of our SoD. I’m gonna use the opportunity to fish here :)
Turn 2 – 310 B.C. Susa immortal --> immortal. Persepolis is unhappy at size 5. I go for broke with 10% lux and move our immortal out of Pasargadae (going S). Susa immortal move S along the road. Vet immortal attack vet archer --> loose nothing, no promotion. Our elite immortal attacks reg archer, loose 1 HP and wins. SoD move SE. 1 immortal move out of Texcoco to join up with the SoD. One worker moves north. The other will join the Aztec worker in a road team.
IBT: Aztec vet archer moves NE off hill. Aztec settler/ reg spear pair arrive S SW of Texcoco. Barb warrior 2 N of Pasargadae.
Turn 3 – 290 B.C. Persepolis and Pasargadae build immortals, both are MM’d for another immortal in 3. Vet immortal attacks reg Aztec spear, loose 1 HP and capture settler. Elite immortal attacks vet archer and is redlined before the archer finally goes down. We have Darius for our FP :D Workers from settler builds road. One vet immortal from the N and 3 from the SoD move to guard them. The rest of the SoD move to cover Darius and our victorious immortal. Vet immortal from Pasargadae defeats barb warrior, 1 HP loss. Our worker/Aztec worker pair moves to the tile being roaded S SW of Texcoco.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Great_Leader_SGOTM1_TeamX.jpg

IBT: Our Darius immortals (not much of a SoD anymore :lol: ) is attacked by reg Aztec archer. We loose a vet immortal taking 1 HP off the archer. Our worker covering immortals are attacked by reg archer, loose 3 HP before defeating it. No promotions. There’s another vet archer on the hill SW of the Darius stack.
Turn 4 – 270 B.C. Our northern immortal fortify to heal. Our northern worker builds mine on the tile S SW of Persepolis. Vet immortal from eastern division attacks their victorious archer, loose 2 HP then turn the battle to win and is promoted. Our Darius immortals defeat the archer on hill. All the stack moves with it. The eastern division cover the elite immortal. The workers move towards Texcoco and safer ground.
IBT: Aztecs move a spear to the dyes W of our Darius stack. Texcoco revolts cause I moved into Aztec territory with all immortals last turn. The Aztecs are whipping in Tenochtitlan.
Turn 5 – 250 B.C. Our northern immortal moves N to find barb encampment. Hurt immortal 1/4 moves into Texcoco to heal and MP. Our workers haven’t got much to do, but goes to shorten our supply lines by building roads. Aztecs’ spear on dye dies to an immortal who loose 2 HP.
IBT: A vet immortal in the eastern division fall to a reg (now 1/3) archer. Our immortal on the dyes is attacked by another reg archer, defeats it with no HP loss and is promoted. Babs spear/settler pair use a ROP with the Aztecs to try and pass our Darius stack on the W and move N. I’ll have to see if I must contact them now…
Turn 6 – 230 B.C. Persepolis and Pasargadae immortals --> immortals. Susa is size 4 and barring waste, should produce immortal next turn when the mine finishes. Northern immortal defeats a warrior and sacks their camp, 1 HP-loss. Persepolis and Pasargadae’s immortals move S. Meat with the babs. They’re up at least mysticism and the wheel. Both are pretty cheap so I buy them and HBR for 168 gold before declaring war. Babs have 3 cities + Babylon and is still up polytheism on us. There’s horses just S of the forest chokepoint (on the spot where the Aztecs built the first city we destroyed). We defeat the 1/3 archer and move S with our eastern division. Our elite immortals move back to the Darius stack. Our workers cross the border again (I’ve made a mess of the worker moves, sorry :(
IBT: Babs move E, they’re now due N of our Darius stack.
Turn 7 – 210 B.C. 2 vets take down two reg spears in Tlaxcala (S S S SW of Texcoco). 3 vets take down 3 vet spears in Tenochtitlan. Only archers guarding them now. I’ll try for the whole 9 yards :) 3/4 vet immortal defeats the reg archer in Tlaxcala and take the city. 4/4 immortal attacks vet archer in Tenochtitlan and we take the city, start FP and hurry it :D Vet 3/4 immortal defeats the bab reg spear and we capture more workers. The rest of our immortals move into Tenochtitlan. We have two lux online so we’re down to 0% lux again. Tlaxcala and Susa is abandoned. We have to starve Tenochtitlan or it will riot next time.
Turn 8 – 190 B.C. FP built in Tenochtitlan [party] Texcoco size 2. The Aztecs are down to 3 cities. Due to heavy pop rushing by the Aztecs, I still need an entertainer in Tenochtitlan at size 2… Immortals start to move to the hill 2 tiles E of Tenochtitlan, looking to hit Teotihuacan. Various worker actions around Tenochtitlan which will grow to size 12 w/o an aqueduct so we need to take care of it :) Northern immortals move back S.
Turn 9 – 170 B.C. Persepolis and Pasargadae builds immortals. The Pasargadae one stays in the city. Worker in the N builds road one the last unroaded grassland tile around Persepolis. We move 2 elite immortals and 6 vet immortals onto the hill E of Teotihuacan. Our elite Who Da Man O’ Tha Immortals moves S S out of Tenochtitlan. The Babs have roaded up an ironsource.
IBT: Aztec reg archer appear E SE of Teotihuacan. Arbela builds immortal. Zimbabwe builds Colossus lol. Golden age has ended.
Turn 10 – 150 B.C. Pasargadae is size 6 --> with 2 units MP we still don’t need lux. 2 elites hit reg spears in Teotihuacan, first wins, second is defeated with only 1 HP off the Aztec spear. Vet immortal finishes it off with 1 HP lost. We capture Teotihuacan and another worker. Keep the city. The rest of our immortal outside Teotihuacan move into the city to quell the resistance. Arbela is abandoned and we set up a colony on the iron. Our elite* immortal move onto the Bab iron outside Niniveh (size 1).

Edit: Score 123, Babs have 129, Aztecs 186.

<< Save >> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team-X_150BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM_150_BC.JPG

Capt Buttkick

Apr 17, 2004, 11:13 AM

We may want to build a temple or two just to get the expansion since we're spacing the cities further apart in the S.
W/r to cities, Teotihuacan is the weakest one at the mo imhso.
Workers: prob continue to work around Tenochtitlan and Texcoco. They should prove to be good, productive cities.

Edit: w/r to playing more often, 10 turns per player suits me better than 5. I'd like to get the game finished too :lol:

zamint3

Apr 17, 2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by AlanH
Assume we'll have to take out 25 more AI cities for conquest.
Doing this in 50 turns means... lets see :crazyeye: ,help me with the math here, one every ?? turn.

Doing this with immortals might be difficult. :eek:

Let's hope the world is a lot smaller than that. :D

10 turns per session is fine with me! :goodjob:

edit: crossposted, looks like things are rolling Capt. :goodjob:

Capt Buttkick

Apr 17, 2004, 11:28 AM

I'd rather keep Susa for a few more turns than Teotihuacan, but that obviously wasn't an option at the time.
I'll leave MM'ing after the golden age ended and further decision on immortals vs. temples open to Alan. All builds can be changed if you like, no problem. Good luck :)

AlanH

Apr 17, 2004, 12:24 PM

Great stuff, Captain. :thumbsup: All our wishes come true in ten turns. And you said you were a builder? :confused:

AlanH - UP -
leif erikson - On Deck -
zamint3
Capt Buttkick

Got it! I'll try hard to get it to leif before midnight BST tonight, but I'm going out this evening, so I may fail.

We'll stick with 10 turns each then. I prefer it as well, but I wanted to air the option, just in case.

leif erikson

Apr 17, 2004, 01:04 PM

Capt. Buttkick, you are now my hero!!:worship: An excellent set of turns, defeating not only the Aztecs, but also the RNG.;) Perhaps my begging helped??:lol:

Looks like things are rolling now! It is hard to think that several days ago we were unsure if we would even see our next 10 turns, never mind looking forward to :hammer:!!:thumbsup:

Alan, hope you have an enjoyable evening out!! When you get back, good luck. :band: [dance]

Capt Buttkick

Apr 17, 2004, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by AlanH
Great stuff, Captain. :thumbsup: All our wishes come true in ten turns. And you said you were a builder? :confused:

:lol: I still think of myself as a builder first and foremost. Remember if I had my ways, we'd be counting tundra cities now :crazyeye:
I know how to use military. I'm just not focused enough on warfare to build much military usually. I joined SGOTM to try and learn more of that and if I don't build more military in my next game after this, I don't know what will make me... (BTW: I'm building lots of military in the ordinary gotm so I think it's helped already :cool: )
So I guess I owe a big thank you :thumbsup: to Leif and Zamint3 for setting me up with military for my turns.

Also, like Leif said, the RNG was really good. I think that's the first time we've had more luck than could be expected from the RNG.

leif erikson

Apr 17, 2004, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
:lol: I still think of myself as a builder first and foremost. Remember if I had my ways, we'd be counting tundra cities now :crazyeye:
I know how to use military. I'm just not focused enough on warfare to build much military usually. I joined SGOTM to try and learn more of that and if I don't build more military in my next game after this, I don't know what will make me...

We have many of the same goals. I'm often reluctant to go to war with other civs because I need to know I will win, so often over-build military and, by the time I'm ready with Knights, they have discovered Gunpowder and upgraded many of their Pikes. SGOTM, I hope, will help change old patterns because we need to compromise our play styles and work towards a good course. Thanks to you all for the help so far.

Now, let's go finish 'em all off!! (So much for building :lol: )

AlanH

Apr 17, 2004, 09:32 PM

Later than I hoped, but here it is:

150 BC Turn 0 Move an immotal out of Teotihuacan towards Aztec border in NW. Sees an archer in woods. Stack of 4 assembles to provide a welcome mat for the archer as he heads east. Move 4 immortals towards Nineveh out of Tenochtitlan.

IBT An Aztec archer moves onto hill west of Nineveh. The Aztec archer walks into our trap in the north west. Tenochtitlan riots. They are complaining about our aggression towards their homeland, and oppression. They've obviously been badly whipped in the past.

130 BC Turn 1 Immortal kills archer. No damage, promotes to elite. The NW stack moves North towards Calixtlahuacan. Southern stack builds on the hill outside Nineveh. More immortals head south.Workers move to new tiles, focus on roads and irrigation of food bonus tiles for growth.

IBT Aztecs want to talk - not on my agenda ... too busy ... call back later!
Archers move towards our immortals. Tenochtitlan expands.

110 BC Turn 2 5/5 immortal kills archer in forest near Calixtlahuaca. Loses 1 hp. NW stack moves up to city.
5/5 immortal kills archer in south on open ground. No damage, except Great Leader Cyrus is born [dance].
2 Immortals kill two 3/3 fortified spears in Nineveh and auto-raze the city for 33 gold and 2 workers. One loses 2 hp, the other is undamaged. The rest of the immortals move south towards the next Aztec city. I decide to move Cyrus to Tenochtitlan for now - he can either build an army or wait four turns to build the Lighthouse. Tenochtitlan is pacified, but unhappy and unproductive. One scientist and one taxman. It will starve.

IBT Persepolis completes immortal, starts immortal. Tenochtitlan starves to pop 1.

90 BC Turn 3 Immortal stack attacks Calixtlahuaca. It looks as if they've been whipped as the pop is now 1. It's on a hill, and 2 immortals kill 2 spears for 3 hp and 2 hp damage. There's still an archer in residence and I have a 4/5 immortal ready to perform. So I decide to build an army with Cyrus to leave the field clear should the RNG be feeling generous. Not today :( The immortal kills the archer for no damage and no leader, and autorazes Calixtlahuaca. We can now see a corner of red Babs teritory in the north. The stack heads that way. We load 2 immortals into the army and it also heads north. 2 immortals advance towards Tlatelco - the last Aztec city. They find 2 Babylonian bowmen and a Babylonian settler/warrior pair, all inside Aztec borders. Not sure what's going on here. Tenochtitlan has pop 1, a scientist because she's still unhappy.

IBT Babs troops head out of the Aztec city limits towards our waiting troops. An Aztec archer appears from inside the city. A Babylonian warrior appears in woods t the north. Pasagardae completes an immortal, starts another.

70 BC Turn 4 Worker at Persepolis completes a grassland mine and has nothing else to do, so I join him to Persepolis to get the pop to 6 and cut his upkeep cost.
Thenchtitlan is now content. The oppression must have worn off. Science to 10% Mapmaking in 2 turns.
An immortal heading south discovers a barb warrior and kills him. Sees a barb camp on the west coast. An elite immortal kills one of the Babs bowmen, but is now exposed to the second one, and is 3/5. Move an immortal to cover his location in case the bowman kills him. An immortal kills the archer outside Tlatelco. A second immortal kills the Babs warrior and captures his settler. A third immortal kills the Babs warrior in the northern forest. The southern immortals stack advanves on Tlatelco.

IBT As feared, the 3/3 Babs bowman kills our gallant elite immortal, losing one hit point.

50 BC Turn 5 Our immortal kills the Babs bowman, avenging the loss of his colleague. Our northern stack advances on the northern Babs city. The immortal takes out the barb camp for 25 gold. At Tlatelco, 2 immortals kill 2 spears for 45 gold and the Aztecs are consigned to history [dance]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Byebye-Aztecs.jpg

IBT We complete Map Making. The palace gets a second floor.

30 BC Turn 6 Our immortals arrive at the gates of Ashur in the north. and see that this is a dead end. No Zulus in this direction. So the army and a couple of other immortals do a U turn and head south.

Texcoco, Teotihuacan and Pasagardae are switched to galleys in 1 turn, 4 turns and 3 turns respectively.
Set science to Literature as an insurance policy, at 10%.

IBT Persepolis completes an immortal, starts another. Texcoco completes a galley, starts another.

10 BC Turn 7 5/5 immortal kills a 3/3 spear to autoraze Ashur. We can see an edge of coastal tiles to the west from here. There's also coast visible east of Persepolis. Immortals move south towards Babs border.

IBT Nothing

10 AD Turn 8 Join a worker to Techtitlan to get its pop moving. Immortals move south. Galley sets sail from Texcoco, moves north along the east coast.

IBT A barb appears from the east and, using our shiny new roads, reaches a stack of three slaves and kills them! They've just completed a road to the incense.
Pasagardae completes galley, starts another.

30 AD Turn 9 New galley moves NW to explore the visible land to the west.
Immortals move south and can now see a yellow border beyond the Babs territory. Zulus! No contact yet. The murderous barb is in range of our army, and is easy meat, to give us an army victory.

IBT A Babs bowman appears and kills an immortal in our stack. He's red-lined dead meat next turn. We can now build the Heroic Epic. So if we get a leader we can choose between this and the Lighthouse or another army.
Tenochtitlan completes immortal, starts another. Teotihuacan completes galley starts another.

50 AD Trun 10 Galleys sail to new lands but no new civs yet. Two immortals load into the galley at Teotihuacan and head north. If they find someone they might as well be armed and dangerous. Immortal kills bowman. Immortals move towards Ur. One climbs a mountain to look at Zululand. He can't see them, but they can see him, as they now appear on our diplo screen. A worker founds a colony on incense and an immortal peels off to go in search of teh camp that spawned the deadly barb. Babs now has Poly theism and Philosophy.

Summary We razed two Aztec cities and two Babylonian. Aztecs are dead. Babs have Ur and Babylon left. We can see where the Zulu live and we can contact them. As it was turn 10 I left that pleasure to leif. We have 367 gold, 25 immortals, 3 of them in an army, 3 galleys, zero native workers and 9 slaves. The Aztecs were the serious opposition and they are gone. Babs probably has one or two bowmen left, and they are quite vicious, but we have plenty of cannon fodder to soak up their attacks. I think we're on the home straight.

Score at 50 AD is 137. Aztecs have 173, Babs 133 and Zulus 118.

>>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_TeamX_50AD.SAV)

Here's the situation.

Watch out for barbs, they could get nasty if the AI get to the Middle Ages, and we haven't seen any horsemen yet. There's a camp on the east coast that needs to be dealt with.

Have fun.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_TeamX_50AD.jpg

AlanH

Apr 17, 2004, 09:38 PM

AlanH
leif erikson - UP -
zamint3 - On Deck -
Capt Buttkick

I rather expect not to see this game again. What a bunch of bloodthirsty warmongers you've turned into! ;)

leif erikson

Apr 17, 2004, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by AlanH
I rather expect not to see this game again. What a bunch of bloodthirsty warmongers you've turned into! ;)

Got it!:goodjob: And who is the madman that molded us poor, peaceful builders into what we've become?:eek: Hope my wife isn't looking, she whisk the kids away to protect them!:rolleyes:

I'll try to get this back across the pond asap. Got to get on it.

Good job Alan!:goodjob:

leif erikson

Apr 18, 2004, 12:38 AM

Here you go,

Turn 0 – 50 AD Pre-flight check.
Contact the Zulus, they are annoyed with us, but who cares. The Zulu have 3 cities and Polytheism. They want Map Making and furs for Polytheism, I don’t think so. Instead I offer them our World Map plus 108 Gold for Polytheism and their World Map and they agree. I then declare war on him. Compared to them, we have a strong military.

IBT
Persepolis Immortal – Immortal

Turn 1 – 70 AD
New Immortal moves south.
Northern Galley moves S, S, SW.
Eastern Galley moves E, E, NE.
Moves Immortals to the SW to engage Zulus. Peel one Immortal off to check area S of Tenochitlan for barbs.
Move slave worker stack north to hill beside Teotihuacan and mine.
Find and attack barb camp, destroyed with no loss of HP.
Attack Ur, find 1 vet Spear, 2 vet Bowmen, and 1 reg Spear. Defeat all three, redlining three Immortals and 1 Immortal losing 1 HP. Liberate 69 Gold and raze city. Captured 2 workers and move him back towards our territory.
Galley with 2 Immortals moves NW, NW, N.
Immortal and slave north of Teotihuacan moves S.
Immortal army and 3 Immortals move towards Babylon, see a spear there.

IBT
Vet Bowman attacks Elite Immortal and dies, no damage to us.

Turn 2 – 90 AD
Vet Immortal attacks vet spear in Babylon, redlines, but defeats spear.
Elite Immortal attacks reg spear in Babylon, is defeated with the spear redlined.
Move more Immortals up to attack Babylon.
Immortals that attacked Ur fortified to heal.
Move northern galley around island.
Move eastern galley around island, see a blue border.
Move galley with Immortals aboard north.
Workers moved around Texcoco.

IBT
A Zulu elite Archer attacks our ¾ Immortal where Ur stood and kills him, no damage to the Zulu?

Turn 3 – 110 AD
Immortal army moves up to Babylon.
Move worker stack north.
Keep moving Immortals toward Zululand.
Northern galley continues around island.
Immortal galley moves north.
Eastern galley moves to contact the Americans.
We contact an annoyed Lincoln. The Americans have Philosophy and Code of Laws, 112 Gold, 4 cities and communication with the Iroquois and wines. I trade Polytheism plus World Map to Lincoln in exchange for Philosophy, Code of Laws, his World Map and 20 Gold. I then declare war on him.
The Americans and the Iroquois are on the same continent to our ESE. Compared to the Americans, we have a strong army.

IBT
Elite Zulu Archer attacks our Immortal stack that was near Ur and destroys an Immortal while redlining.
The Zulu have moved up a vet Archer, 2 reg Impis and 2 settlers to the area near Ur’s former location.
Pasargadae galley – galley.

Turn 4 – 130 AD
Begin to bring all galleys back towards the Iron colony for embarkation to America and Iroquois continent.
A ¾ Immortal attacks the redlined Zulu elite Archer and destroys him losing 1 HP.
Immortal army attacks reg spear in Babylon and destroys it losing 2 HP.
A vet Immortal attacks a reg Bowman in Babylon and destroys it losing 2 HP.

IBT
A vet Zulu Archer attacks our exposed Immortal and kills him losing nothing.
Zulu build Hlobane on former Ur site and stack it with several horseman, impi and whatever else went in there, lots of units. (sorry, happened fast)
A vet Zulu horseman attacks the hill stack, now 1 Immortal, redlines and retreats.
Persepolis Immortal – Immortal
Tenochitlan Immortal – Immortal.

Turn 5 – 150 AD
Trying to get reinforcing Immortals toward Zululand as quickly as possible.
Immortal army attacks reg Bowman in Babylon, defeats him, losing 3 HP.
2/4 Immortal attacks reg Bowman in Babylon, defeats him and takes Babylon. We received 212 gold and razed the city. The Babylonians are destroyed! We captured 1 slave and he moves back towards our territory.
In moving the northern galley back, I load our poor, cold warrior aboard to upgrade to an Immortal.
Now for the Zulu.

IBT
Zulu vat Archer attacked our 2/4 Immortal on the hill above Hlobane and lost, redlining our Immortal.
A barb attacked our incense colony and destroyed it.
Texcoco galley – galley.

Turn 6 – 170 AD
Change galley rally point to wooded chokepoint north of Texcoco.
Kill Barb that destroyed our incense colony.
Send barb slave to make a new colony.
Now have a SOD consisting of 5 Immortals above Hlobane.
All other Immortals and army are fortified to heal.
Barb camps are starting to show up with horseman. They are using our roads to rapidly move around our rear areas.

IBT
A vet Zulu Horseman attacks our SOD, dies in the process and the Immortal is promoted to elite.
Barb horseman attacks an Immortal, dies, and we lost 1 HP.
Forgot to check cities after incense colony was destroyed and we have revolt in Tenochtitlan.

Turn 7 – 190 BC
Continue to move galleys.
Immortal attacks Barb camp, destroys it.
Build colony on incense.
Decide to attack Hlobane. Vet Immortal attacks reg Impi. Impi destroyed, Immortal loses 2 HP, promotes to elite. Vet Immortal attacks reg Impi, Immortal dies, Impi loses 1 HP and promotes to vet. Immortal attacks reg Impi, Impi dies, Immortal loses 1 HP, no promotion. Vet Immortal attacks ¾ Impi, defeats him with no HP lose, takes Hlobane, autorazes, and we get 4 workers by destroying 2 settlers.
Advance 1 elite Immortal onto hill inside Zulu territory.
Advance 7/12 army to cover healing Immortals.

IBT
Zulus move Impi and settler back towards Hlobane site.
Zulu moves archer S of elite Immortal on hill.
Zulu moves several Impis around but they are out of site now.
Teothuacan Galley – Immortal.

Turn 8 – 210 AD
Begin moving new galley around to rally point, it is a long sail.
Fortify Galleys at rally point.
Upgrade warrior to Immortal.
Fortify Immortals to heal.
Attack vet Impi covering settler with vet Immortal, kill Impi losing 2 HP and capture settler as 2 slaves.
Fortify elite Immortal in Zulu territory.
Wake Immortal in Pasargadae and move N to attack a Barb. Destroy barb with no loss.

IBT
Vet Zulu Horseman attacks our 2/4 Immortal and defeats him, redlining in the process.
Persepolis Immortal – Immortal.
Pasargadae Galley – Galley.

Turn 9 – 230 AD
Vet Immortal attacks redlined Zulu Horseman and defeats him, no HP loss, no promotion.
Move Immortals into position to prep for attack on Ulundi.
Continue healing Immortals.
Galleys move to rally point.

IBT
Zulu Archer attacks Immortal and loses, Immortal loses 1 HP, promotes to elite.
Barb Horseman attacks Immortal, loses, no damage to Immortal, promotes to elite.
Tenochtitlan Immortal – Immortal

Turn 10 – 250 AD
Move Immortal towards Zululand.
Galleys to rally Point.
Elite Immortal in N attack barb camp, defeats warrior with no HP loss, Barb Horseman remains.
Immortal attacks Barb warrior S of incense colony, defeats with no HP loss.
Create a SOD, 7 Immortals, near Ulundi for Zamint3’s use!

After Action Report

The Babylonians have been eliminated and much of the Zulu force has been destroyed. We are strong compared to both the Zulu and American forces. The new big foe appears to be the Iroquois, who have 6 cities. However, I don’t think they have many resources and we have not met them yet. I delayed in the hopes they would get Monarchy and we would have enough Gold, or maybe Literature, to trade with them.

Our Armies consist of an Army, 25 Immortals, 7 Galleys and an Archer and are poised to attack the Zulu (zamint3’s choice of when and where). Our treasury has 669 Gold and grows at the rate of 8 GPT. We are due Literature in 26 turns and have all the techs to allow us to research Monarchy or The Republic.

There was much combat but some wasn’t decisive due to healing units and fast moving Zulu forces. However, I think this is about to change as many of their units have been liquidated.

Galley are moving to wooded choke point south of the Iron colony because they move 3 just like units on roads (no speed advantage) and this is the closest place to the safest and fastest route to America and Iroquois lands.

Watch out for the Barb camps popping up, as their units move swiftly on our road net and cause rear area confusion. I started placing some excess slaves on hills to over watch common Barb breeding areas.

<< The Save >> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team-X_250AD.SAV)

Alan, I got your file unzipped and it worked great!

Screenshots to follow. I hope I don't screw up because it is late and I'm tired!!:sleep:

leif erikson

Apr 18, 2004, 12:47 AM

You guys will have to teach me to put the screen shots together. I don't know how to do that so thre will be three shots.

The first is the southern area where the Zulu are:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTMXMEN250ADZulu.jpg

The second is the northern area of the American and Iroqouis continent:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTMXMENNIROQ250AD.jpg

The third is the southern area of the American and Iroqouis continent:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTMXMENSIROQ250AD.JPG

Good luck Zamint3, go get those Zulu!! :D :lol:

AlanH

Apr 18, 2004, 03:08 AM

Good job leif. Smart move not trading for the Iroquois contact. :thumbsup:

Two down three to go. Looks like maybe one more session each to finish it.

AlanH
leif erikson
zamint3 - UP -
Capt Buttkick - On Deck -

Capt Buttkick

Apr 18, 2004, 03:37 AM

Well done, Leif. :goodjob:
This is moving along extremely quickly now. Hope we can get enough immortals over to that other continent. We may have to watch so the Iroq and the Americans don't sail to new land.

BTW: we don't put screenshots together, at least I don't. I just hit 'z' to zoom out and then take the screenshot.

AlanH

Apr 18, 2004, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
Well done, Leif. :goodjob:
This is moving along extremely quickly now. Hope we can get enough immortals over to that other continent. We may have to watch so the Iroq and the Americans don't sail to new land.
I'm not sure we can stop them if they decide to. Galley attacks galley is usually a loss in my experience. The safest bet would be to shadow them and kill the settler on landing, but we'd have to be lucky to be at the right place at the right time. Worst case they settle and we have a pop 1 city with one defender to mop up..

BTW: we don't put screenshots together, at least I don't. I just hit 'z' to zoom out and then take the screenshot. Me too. I crop it in Photoshop Elephants and try to move the miniscreen status displays to minimise the width, but that's it.

Those barbs are a pain, but I think we now have enough infrastrcture to see out the rest of the game, so the slaves can go on barb watch as leif has done. We maybe don't need to build many more immortals either as there are no prizes for having them left over at the end of the game, in which case p'raps we could move the west coast Aztec city to the choke forest to speed up galley movement from Pasagardae, and to build some cheaper horses to counter the barbs. It sounds like we are about ready to see an end-of-era uprising? Also note that the army won't fit in a boat, so it will have to stay at home on barb duty.

AlanH

Apr 18, 2004, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by leif erikson
Alan, I got your file unzipped and it worked great! [/B] Yes. I'm not sure why there's suppposed to be a problem with Mac files. As far as I can tell using a hex editor they are identical to Windows ones, so I thought I'd bypass the zip process this time, just for kicks. Live dangerously, hey? :D

leif erikson

Apr 18, 2004, 07:00 AM

Sorry, forgot to post the scores last night! :sleep:

Our Firaxis score is 151.
Zulu score is 123.
America is 153.
Azteca is leading with 161.:lol:
Babylon is 128 and never to increase!
Iroqouis is unknown.

All American and Iroqouis cities are accounted for on the terrain showing. Unless there is a significant land mass to the east of their current area, it appears it will be tough for them to expand because they have to use the land mass immediately to our east, which also happens to be the safest water route for us.

Thanks for the z tip, I will try it later. See what you learn!:goodjob:

The problem I see with getting a force across to America is moving them from Zulu area to the embarkation for a safe water journey. This can be partially solved by getting a GL and building The Great Lighthouse. I changed the build in Teothuacan because it takes forever to get the galley around the land masses, it almost becomes useless production.

The idea of some horsemen to check Barbs is a good one I think. They can patrol the roads and take out the pesky suckers. Immortals are too slow to do this over such a large area, imho. See Alan, its back to my roots as a mounted war kind of guy!:crazyeye:

Those Zulus were kind of pesky to. They want to build a city where Ur was very badly, sacrificing all kinds of troops and settlers, 4 iirc. They use their roads effectively and all of a sudden it shows up. :cry:

Good luck Zamint3, hope you enjoy the SOD I left, healed and ready to go!:hammer: :thumbsup: :D

AlanH

Apr 18, 2004, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by leif erikson
Sorry, forgot to post the scores last night! :sleep: No problem. I loaded up the save and published our score and save in the Maintenance Thread. In case you're not aware of it, that's where m-b wanted them to be collated so he can pick them up for the graphs. Our list is >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1751371#post1751371)

The idea of some horsemen to check Barbs is a good one I think. They can patrol the roads and take out the pesky suckers. Immortals are too slow to do this over such a large area, imho. See Alan, its back to my roots as a mounted war kind of guy!:crazyeye: Me too usually. The Persians are different though, since the Immortals are offence 4. As we have seen they are effective far earlier than the nearest equivalent fast unit - the knight. I'm only suggesting horses now against the barbs because they are cheaper and faster than immortals and we know they'll only be attacking horses - defence 1.

Those Zulus were kind of pesky to. They want to build a city where Ur was very badly, sacrificing all kinds of troops and settlers, 4 iirc. They use their roads effectively and all of a sudden it shows up. :cry: I expect there's a resource under there.

zamint3

Apr 18, 2004, 11:21 AM

Looks like you guys have been really busy. :goodjob:

I'll be at work for most of the next 24 hours, and I have a lot of reading to catch up on ;), so that'll give you some time to work on the strategy. :)

Sorry about the delay. :eek: , I guess even Napoleon had to eat and sleep. :D

Capt Buttkick

Apr 18, 2004, 12:44 PM

Good :)
I start work tomorrow after a healthy easter vac and I've also got a big assignment for the class I'm taking (I'm finally getting my bachelor degree :lol: ). Come tomorrow evening I'll have some time though.

leif erikson

Apr 18, 2004, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by AlanH
I'm not sure we can stop them if they decide to. Galley attacks galley is usually a loss in my experience. The safest bet would be to shadow them and kill the settler on landing, but we'd have to be lucky to be at the right place at the right time. Worst case they settle and we have a pop 1 city with one defender to mop up..

This would not be hard to do. In fact, there is one galley in the stack that has 2 Immortals aboard. It could sail for the island between our continents and ensure nothing gets started there. :evil: Not sure if I would waste a galley to explore east of the continent we can see. We will need all the lift we can get to bring Immortals over there. Thinking about it, we could also stage some Immortals on the island for faster reinforcement once we hit the main beaches for the big [party] . We might consider a few horseman going as well to tear up their infrastructure, since we aren't keeping the cities anyway! :smug: They might also keep some of their horseman from harrassing us. Just a few quick thoughts. :rolleyes:

leif erikson

Apr 18, 2004, 07:54 PM

Looks like I was more asleep than I even knew! :o There is an Iroquois city on the island between our continent and the Iroq./American continent. I was checking out the zoom function and noticed the border. It is clear on the screenshot below.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTMXMENLostIroq.jpg

Perhaps we should think about landing those Immortals on the Galley soon to check any further expansion. :splat:

zamint3

Apr 19, 2004, 02:56 PM

Turn 0 : 250 AD
Moved Army onto hill with our SoD.
Loaded immortal from Persepolis onto galley, we might as well have a look at that northern island.

Turn 1 : 260 AD
Nothing from the Zulu army, move our SoD south, we are right outside Ulundi.
Dispersed barb camp in the north.
MM Persepolis to increase gpt, running shortage for a while. 2 galleys with 4 immortals sailing across the waters outside Persepolis,
There’s a goody hut on the island. Still haven’t met the Iroquois.

Turn 2 : 270 AD
Attack vet impi in Ulundi with our 9/12 army who wins but is down to 5/12, vet immortals kills vet impi loosing one hitpoint, elite immortal kills is redlined but finally kills vet archer, and we raze Ulundi, getting 2 slaves.
We pop the goody hut and get Mathematics !!
Tenochtitlan grows and we increase lux to 10% to keep them happy.

Turn 3 : 280 AD
Zulu archer kills our 4/5 immortal guarding our army.
Vet immortal is killed attacking impi guarding archer.
Next immortal kills impi, vet immortal kills 2/5 archer.
Barbs are showing up N of Teotihuacan and SE of incense colony.
Lux down to 0, two immortals as MP in Tenochtitlan.
No contact with the Iroquois yet.

Uups. :o
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/alliance_am-iroq.jpg

Turn 4 : 290 AD
Iroquois declare war, they have an alliance with the americans.
Units healing down south.
We have 4 immortals on hill next to Tonawanda (Iroquois)

Turn 5 : 300 AD
We destroy Tonawanda, liberating 14 g, killing two reg spear fortified on a hill losing only one hitpoint, no promotion.
The Americans founded Atlanta SW on the same island IBT.
Immortals move SW.
Build colony on the horses.
Moving in on Bapedi south.
Killing barbs. Placing slaves to cover blind spots.
The unhappiness in Tenochtitlan wears off.

Turn 6 : 310 AD
Immortal destroys barb camp in the south and promotes to elite.
Elite immortal kills Zulu archer.
We are starting to ship immortals across to a foreward base on the island east of Persepolis.

Turn 7 : 320 AD
Vet immortal kills vet impi in Bapedi
Elite immortal kills reg impi.
Vet immortal kills reg horseman. And we destroy Bapedi.
Barb camp emerged on visible ground, I didn’t know that was possible.

Turn 8 : 330 AD
Our source of iron dryed out!!
We disperse a barb camp for 25 g.

Turn 9 : 340 AD
We sink a Iroquois galley NW of Philadelphia. Our galley is redlined.
We build an iron colony S of Tenochtitlan.
We are closing in on Zimbabwe, the Zulu have done some heavy
whipping or built a settler?
Our troops are on the doorstep of Atlanta, defended by a vet swordsman

Turn 10 : 350 AD
We destroy Atlanta and liberate 7g.
I'll leave the big overseas invasion to you Capt.

Score : Persia 163.
We have 31 immortals, 1 army, 1 archer, 9 galleys and a lot of slaves.
Unit cost 22, Treasury 943 net gain 5 gpt, literature in 16.
We are producing immortals every 3 turns in Persepolis (negative growth) and Tenochtitlan.
We’ll get Zimbabwe next turn and then we are off to the east.
The Americans have iron but no horses, the Iroquois nothing and no techs!
There’s a barb camp next to our incense colony!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/World_ranking_350_AD.jpg

The save is >>here<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team-X_350AD.SAV)

And here's some of the hot spots:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Zimbabwe_350_AD.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Philadelphia_350_AD.jpg

AlanH

Apr 19, 2004, 03:19 PM

Grea progress, zamint3. We're gettting there :goodjob:

Captain's presence requested on the bridge.

AlanH - On Deck -
leif erikson
zamint3
Capt Buttkick - UP -

Capt Buttkick

Apr 19, 2004, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by AlanH

Captain's presence requested on the bridge.

Aye, aye Sir :)
I'll be right on it even though it's a worknight and it's midnight here. I just can't wait :lol:

Capt Buttkick

Apr 19, 2004, 07:07 PM

I play so slowly :lol:
2 AM now...

Turn 0 – 350 A.D. Nothing much, continuing troops movement east.
IBT: Barb horseman in the north.
Turn 1 – 360 A.D. Tenochtitlan immortals --> immortals. Build a colony on the ivory, which means we can move immortals out of Texcoco and onto waiting galley. Hit barb horseman, no loss. Hit barb camp S of former Azteca, no loss. I don’t bother with healing the immortals on the eastern island. It’s all about speed now so I’d rather take a few chances (they were 3/4 anyway). We move to kill the barb camp near our horses colony. Don’t think we’ll get there :( We kill off a vet and a reg impi with our elites. Still at least one impi to go and I decide to wait another turn to fish for a GL for GLighthouse.
IBT: Barb next to our horses colony.
Turn 2 – 370 A.D. I move back and load immortals back on the horses colony. I station immortals on most of our colonies in case of barbs. A 3/5 elite finish off Zimbabwe and we raze it with the Colossus, no GL. The Zulu are not to disturb us anymore (did they ever? :) ) :hammer:
IBT: A couple of barb warriors attack, no prob. A barb galley attacks and promotes one of our galleys to vet, no HP loss.
Turn 3 – 380 A.D. Texcoco immortals --> immortals. I unload 6 immortals outside Cattaragus and 4 nearby Philadelphia. Kill one barb camp, move close to another.
Turn 4 – 390 A.D. Tenochtitlan immortals --> immortals. Kill one barb camp, move close to another. Cattaragus is razed without losses. 3 immortals move onto ships to go against Oil Springs. Add 2 Zulu workers to Teotihuacan. We’ll have immortals every 4 turns now, but with food shortage. Add a Bab and a Zulu worker to Tenochtitlan. After cow is mined we’ll have immortals every two turns.
IBT: America move a swordie + settler onto the space where Cattagarus were. The Iroq appear with a galley.
Turn 5 – 400 A.D. Persepolis immortals --> immortals. Teotihuacan immortals --> immortals. Pasargadae immortals --> immortals. Philadelphia is razed with one casualty (vet). One promotes to elite. American and Iroq galleys are blocking the route to Oil Springs so I unload outside Allegheny instead.
IBT: We loose a vet immortal to an Iroq archer without taking HPs. The Americans decide to move their swordie/settler pair :confused:
Turn 6 – 410 A.D. Take out a barb camp. Kill two iroq archers for no HP loss. Kill American swordie with 1 HP left.
IBT: 3/4 Immortals outside Allegheny are attacked first by America, promotes and then redlines an Iroq archer before caving, brave man :)
Turn 7 – 420 A.D. Tenochtitlan immortals --> immortals. We defeat the 1-HP archer with no HP lost.
IBT: We loose our immortals outside Allegheny.
Turn 8 – 430 A.D. Persepolis immortals --> immortals, MM for surplus food. Texcoco immortals – immortals. Not much…
Turn 9 – 440 A.D. Tenochtitlan immortals --> immortals. Teotihuacan immortals --> immortals. Load immortals off outside Oil Springs.
Turn 10 – 450 A.D. Pasargadae immortals --> immortals. Oil Springs is destroyed by elite immortal; no luck with the fishing.

Score is 174. Iroq: 197. America: 169.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM_450_AD.JPG

<< Save >> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team-X_450AD.SAV)

Capt Buttkick

Apr 19, 2004, 07:15 PM

Sorry for the poor display. I got real tired :undecide:
At least Alan is in for some really cool turns now. I don't expect to be seing this game again ;)
I don't know how it will effect our score (and that's the only thing that might be effected), but we can join two more workers into Tenochtitlan, one entertainer and the other one will work a grassland.
Good luck, Alan.

AlanH

Apr 19, 2004, 07:45 PM

Well done Captain. :goodjob:

It's a bit late now, so I think I'll pick it up in the morning. I doubt if I can finish the job in ten turns, so it looks like leif may get to administer the coup de grâce.

AlanH - UP -
leif erikson - On Deck -
zamint3
Capt Buttkick

leif erikson

Apr 19, 2004, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by AlanH
It's a bit late now, so I think I'll pick it up in the morning. I doubt if I can finish the job in ten turns, so it looks like leif may get to administer the coup de grâce.

It is looking really good, Zamint3 and Capt. Buttkick.[dance] You guys got those units over there pretty quickly. I thought it would take more turns to get enough Immortals over there to do some serious damage. :goodjob:

Give 'em hell Alan!! I would be honored to clean up whatever you leave, I hope?? :eek: Let's hope we don't get a settler in a galley on a world sightseeing cruise somewhere on the oceans of the world. It would be just our luck this game.....;) :D :lol:

AlanH

Apr 19, 2004, 10:26 PM

Sorry! Couldn't wait until morning. We destroyed the Iroquois by 540 AD, and in 550 AD the Americans were down to one city - Washington. I had a SOD two turns away from Wahington, so I figured I might as well finish it. Well, it took three turns - one of our Immortals snuffed it and left a 1/4 spearman alive, so Washington fell in 580 AD.

A Great Leader was created in 560 AD, a little too late to help. He's sitting on a boat somewhere ...

Our score in 590 AD after our 5CC AW conquest victory is 4577. We are Xerxes the Magnificent.

THE FINAL SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team_X_590AD.SAV)

I'll post some screenshots in the morning, but here's one to be going on with ...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1_Team_X_TheEnd.jpg

Capt Buttkick

Apr 20, 2004, 04:20 AM

Well done, Alan :goodjob: We rock :lol:
That's a nice Firaxis score for such a short 5CC game, the Jason should be high. I'm looking forward to seeing how the other teams are doing. I'll go lurk now :scan:

AlanH

Apr 20, 2004, 05:32 AM

450 AD Turn 0 Switch Texcoc to Galley. Slider up to 2.1.7 for lots of happy people and -28 gpt. We have over 1000 gold and nothing to spend it on. Might as well turn it into a few points.

IBT WLTKD in 3 cities. Barb attacks iron colony and dies.
American Sword and Spear north from Boston towards our stack at Allegheni.
Tenchtitian immortals -> immportals. Palace expands.

460 AD Turn 1 3 immortals kill 2 3/3 spears and raze Allegheni. 2 slaves. One immortals lost, one to 2/4. Rest of stack moves towards Salamanca.

IBTAmerican sword dies vs. immortals. Immortals redlined.
Iroquios archer from Salamanca attacks Immortals and dies, immortals loses 2 HP. American Spear captures slaves from Allegheni.

470 AD Turn 2 Immortals kills American Spear, loses 2 HP.
Immortals kills barb at home. Immortals move towards Grand River.

IBT Iroquois galley appears off our coast. American galley moves off Iroquois coast. Barbs appear at home. Tenochtitlan immortals->immortals. Texcoco Galley->galley

480 AD Turn 3 Immortals outside Grand River.

IBT Teotihuacan immortals->immortals

490 AD Turn 3 2 immortals kill spears in Grand River. An archer left, probably alone.

IBT Teotihuacan immortals -> immortals. Pasagardae galley -> galley

500 AD Turn 4 Immortals kills archer and razes Grand River. Captures settler.
3 immortals kill 3 spears to raze Salamanca and capture 4 workers.

IBT Iroquois warrior and spear land near Persepolis. American galley heads north between the two islands. Is it a settler? Complete Literature, start Construction. Persepolis immotals-> immortals.

510 AD Turn 6 Immortals from Persepolis and Pasagardae kill Iroquois warrior and spear. Immortals move towards Niagara Falls, spot an Americal spear/settler party in the mountains near Boston. Galleys with Immortals move south to bypass ex Iroquois lands and deliver Immortals in America.

IBT Tenochtitlan expands to absorb iron and build an immortals->immortals. Texcoco galley->galley.

520 AD Turn 7 Immortals kill American spear and captured settler. Immortals kills Iroquois warrior and captures settler. Lots of slaves now leaning on shovels listening to reports of war progress on CNN. Can't really get enthusiastic about whipping them back to work.

IBT American sword kills immortals near Boston. Iroquois archer out of Niagara Falls kills immortals . Palace grows. Barb appears south of the iron colony. Teotihuacan immortals->immortals.

530 AD Turn 8 Elite Immortals kills American sword -2 HP. 5 immortals kill 4 spears at Niagara Falls. More to go.

IBT Americans want to talk. Sorry, your negotiating table's the wrong shape. Barb dies at iron colony.

540 AD Turn 9 3 immotals kill 2 spears and an archer at Niagara Falls, and the Iroquois nation is no more. Galleys land 4 immortals outside New York. More workers leaning on shovels. CNN viewing figures hit an all-time high.

IBT Persepolis immortals -> immortals. Pasagardae galley->galley.

550 AD Turn 10 Immortals kills barb near horse colony. 2 immortals raze New York. 2 immortals take Boston. Amercica has one city left. We have four immortals within two tiles of Washington and lots more close by. I decide to finish it off.

IBT Settler party out of Washington. Barb attacks army in southern homeland ad dies. Tenchtitlan completes temple. Immortals takes out barb camp near horse colony for 25 gold.

560 AD Turn 11 5/5 immortals takes out spear, captures settler and Achaemenes is born. Heads for home, but a little late I fear!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Team_X_Late_Leader.jpg

IBT IBT Teotihuacan immortals->immortals

570 AD Turn 12 3 immortals kill 3 spears at Washington. 1 immortal dies leaving a single redlined regular spear to keep the American dream alive.

IBT It's quiet - too quiet.

580 AD Turn 13 5/5 immortals kills last enemy defender and we are alone.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Team-X_Last_One_Down.jpg

Our Trade Adviser finally has nothing to suggest!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Team_X_All_Alone.jpg

Xerxes the Magnificent. Score 4577.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Team_X_Histograph.jpg