Welcome to your SGOTM1 game thread.


First some procedural stuff.
Although the rules for SGOTM have not been set in stone yet, we will be playing to the rules listed >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1733966#post1733966)
Please take the time to read them.

Here is a reminder of your start position
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/civ3gotm1b.jpg

Here are the two saves.

SGOTM1-CivIII1.29f (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1NAME-4000BC.zip)

SGOTM1-PTW1.27f (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1PTWNAME-4000BC.zip)

IMPORTANT REMINDER
The file naming format that you use to pass the game on must be rigidly adhered to in order to prevent games getting mixed up.

Name your save files like this

SGOTM1TEAMNAME-DATE.SAV

For example - SGOTM1STAFF-3000BC.SAV

Later on it may be possible to submit the saved games through the GOTM server for scoring purposes. Alanh will have special requirements for doing this which will be made clear at that time.

Roster

samildanach
Rocinante
haphazard
vaiar

The order shown above is not the order you must play. When you have decided on your order of play I will amend the Roster above.

The first player plays to the end of the 3000BC turn (turn 20)
Everyone else plays 10 turns from there. Please try to stick to this. People finishing on the wrong turn is my biggest headache beleive it or not.

3000BC is turn 20 of course.

Thanks Mad-bax!

okay guys waddayawanna play? I vote for the 1.29 version--haven't played PTW but I think it is included in the C3C files so I could if it came to that.

Shall we go for conquest, domination, diplo, culture, double victory, triple victory, space, what?

I also have just v1.29.

I sent a PM to everyone to try give my initial set of questions.

What time zone is everyone in? I am in New York EDT which is currently GMT -5 for the next few weeks, then GMT -6 again.

Does anyone know about this map. It seems some other teams may have a lead on us due to past experience. It looks like a penisula with the land side to the SW.

Who is the starting turns micromanager among us? he should go first. I am not that person BTW.

I am in Oregon GMT-8--haven't played the scenario before but love to MM and would be honored to go first but let's hear from the rest of the crew before deciding anything.
Don't have a life so am nearly always available to play.

Hi Guys!:)
I'm fine with 1.29 as well. I think we will be going Always War as Ted signed up specifically to play that variant. If you want to throw in extra goals - as long as they dovetail with A.W thats fine - obviously diplomatic is out.
I'm happy for Rocinante to start - but we have to decide what our strategy is from the outset, are we going to go for an early archer rush and take out our nearest opponents. Or are we going to sit back and quietly build up our civ with settler and worker pumps etc.
Also do we utilise the Persians unique unit - they are very powerful but very slow or do we go for the less powerful but faster chariot - horseman path.
The roster will be pretty much determined by what our strategy is - if we are going for an early rush then we want Ted up early so we utilise his skills to best effect. If we are in build mode then Ted will be further back.
Personally I would like our goal to be B.C conquest. Which I think we are capable of.
As far as the team name, being an egotistical swine I kind of like the present one :D But I think we should to change it to something that reflects the team spirit.:)

Always war it is then. B.C. conquest is fine by me, it is a small map the action will start early but probably not in the first 30 turns. However, whoever starts will then play turns 90 to 100 and by then the action should be real hot.

How early would an archer rush start?

We shouldn't use the UU until we are ready to spark a GA
Chariots are okay until we are ready to unleash the Immortals

Team name--???

Just because the first player takes 30 turns doesn't mean he can't stop and check in here for consultation occasionally-we have 72 hours to do the turns.

As far as the team name, being an egotistical swine I kind of like the present one But I think we should to change it to something that reflects the team spirit.

Actually "egotistical swine" has a certain ring to it. :lol:

As for who starts, I am agreeable to letting someone else do the micromanagement at start. That is not my forte.

My start would be either build in place and have the worker clear the fur square, or build on the fur square and clear in place.

I do not like the look of starting on a penisula, tough on ring placement, and it could even be an Island with no neighbors. :(

for the early military strategy, there are 2 paths, archer rush, or king of the hill.
* Archer rush is obvious, we have an advantage with a good UU to repace the archers with.
* King of the hill is to park defensive units on moutain or hills behind a river in their territory. The AI hides all his workers indoors and waste units trying to knock you off the hill. Since you have brought the battle into his lands, he is stalled in developing his territory while you try to build up your own lands and become stronger. Occasionally you get lucky and the AI trys to sneak a settler past your sentry, so you just milk him for a few slave workers.
I have found that with two spearman taking turns healing/standing on a mountain, an early AI goes nowhere. They only pump out one archer every 3 to 4 turns.
War weariness is not so bad in despotism.:crazyeye: Did anyone say what skill level this SAV is at? and I think the AI really suffers early with no workers (at work).

GOTM scenarios usually have a relationship to reality and Persia was not an island nation and so I doubt we are on an island. The level is regent. The map is small so we should only have three AI civs to worry about.

Hello :cool:

I live in the Netherlands, that's normally in the winter GMT +1 (GMT +2 now I believe). Like I said in the general thread I am a n00bie to SG games and not a very good player in general. I joined the game because I wanted to learn to play better. Till now I only played regent with the French, Egyptians and the Americans with some kind of builder strategy. I always micro manage the cities and never use the governor.

I do not want to play first as that's a bit too much for an inexperienced player like myself.
About the team name, I like the present one. Sounds a bit like "Serious Sam", don't you know that game?

So Rocinate wants to go first and both Vaiar and I have opted out. Unless Sam or Ted object, I say let him go.

I finally found the old GOTM locations. If you want a blast from the past, look here.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3gotm/civ3gotm01.shtml

Also here is the table with the top scores:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3gotm/civ3gotm_results_01.shtml

There are a lot of early year AD conquest wins. Hmmmmm

Also, I had not seen the game parameters anywhere before, so here they are:

Civilization: Persians
Leader: Xerxes
Difficulty Level: Regent (Prince)
Map Size: Small
Number of Civs: 5
Weather: Temperate
Earth: 4 billion years
Barbarians: Restless


This is a small world with 5 civs (sorry roc, you will have to clobber one additional AI along the way), and of course some restless barbarians.

thanks for the links, the more civs to beat the better!
We haven't heard from Ted Jackson yet--maybe he wants to start.
I guess if I haven't heard any different I will make a start in a few hours--I won't go very far before posting what I see and what I'm doing to this thread.

Ted Jackson is out there, he sent me a PM this morning, but from his text, he was not aware we had a forum going already. I sent him a link to the forum. hopefully he will join us soon.

Go ahead and give it a start. I am very anxious to see what we are up against.

OK picked up the save file--will get to it after lunch-can't play on a empty stomach!

I have replaced the files with zipped files. I bet you use netscape.

Try again please.

I just sent it to you! Does it work now? :confused:

Netscape, blah! Picked up the file from the old GOTM site--thanks for the instantaneous help!

OK, OK, I'm here :)

Civ 1.29 is fine with me but (as samildanach says) we need to decide what our objectives are before we start the game.

I know I signed up for an "Always War" game but I want to be sure that everyone understands what that entails and is happy to play that way. I see samildanach's proposal for a BC conquest as quite a fun alternative/addition to Always War and at Regent level should be enough of a challenge to keep it interesting.

Whatever we decide it's very hard to play as the Persians without taking advantage of those brilliant Immortals (4.2.1 @30 shields) for a middle/late Ancient Times assault on our closest neighbour(s) :D

The secret of a successful SG is for all the players to discuss & agree on both short term and long term goals. If we all agree on where we're going then getting there is a much easier prospect.

So I'd be grateful if we didn't just dive into the game until everyone has indicated whether or not they understand (and are happy to play) an Always War game or if they would rather play for a fast Conquest victory. Ideally we could combine the two but I don't want to put pressure on anyone to jump in beyond their depth.



Ted

This is from Realms describing the A.W variant-

Variant Rules: You must declare war on all opponents on the turn you make contact. You may do cash-only transactions for tech or map information prior to declaring war. You may never, ever make peace with any opponent. Until you control all of the earth or are wiped from the earth, there will always be war without end.

I'll add that obviously you will be able to trade techs or your map for their stuff not just cash - it just means that you won't be able to sign any 20 turn deals which because it is A.W. you are required to break and would be exploitative.
I'm currently surfing the threads looking for good A.W. strategy and tips articles. I'll post them later when I find some good ones.:)

The AW rules that are in force for this SG are linked in the opening post of the thread. All ot hte threads are making the same assumptions about the rules. You're not the only ones.

My AW rules are roughly as follows:

You may only enter the diplomacy screen with a given civ once. The last action you perform before colosing the diplomacy screen is to declare war. You must remain at war with that civ at all times until either you or they are cleansed from the face of the map.

The ramifications of this are that you can risk delaying a war declaration fo some time. The trade-off is that the civ might contact you in between turns, in which case you lose trading leverege.

The rules in full are explained if you follow the link. :)

Excellent advice, Ted
I've mostly gone for middle to late victories--always waited for a sizable advantage before attacking or letting myself be attacked (I'm such a chicken!) so I am eager to go for an early victory.

4000BC--our first citizen will be working the grassland bonus tile so I moved the worker there and revealed that we are, indeed, on a small peninsula.

I vote we move the settler to the northern hill--we can still pick up the forest fur on the expansion (I'll see about fixing the iconography) and we don't need it yet anyway. We will pick up a coastal tile by moving which could be helpful later and will get the defensive advantage of being on a hill in case we are attacked.
http://jmot.home.sprynet.com/SGOTM1-4000bc.jpg

Originally posted by mad-bax

You may only enter the diplomacy screen with a given civ once. The last action you perform before colosing the diplomacy screen is to declare war. You must remain at war with that civ at all times until either you or they are cleansed from the face of the map.


Where are your rules and the link to them- personally I play A.W. like you where I declare war once I have finished the first contact but it appears in Realms they allow you to continue trading till the end of the turn. I didn't read their rules carefully enough - I always thought they were a bit soft anyway:D
Are we allowed to make bogus 20 turn deals playing by your rules M.B?

edit: Yes, see it. Sorry . I have to pay more attention.

Originally posted by samildanach
I'm currently surfing the threads looking for good A.W. strategy and tips articles. I'll post them later when I find some good ones.:) [/B]
Thanks, that will be helpful.
We don't <b>have</b> to contact other civs just because we see them, do we? We can ignore them until we are ready. How about if they ask for an audience--do we reply or ignore? If we are already at war with them there is no use in replying but how about before we are at war with them?

Originally posted by Rocinante

Thanks, that will be helpful.
We don't <b>have</b> to contact other civs just because we see them, do we? We can ignore them until we are ready. How about if they ask for an audience--do we reply or ignore? If we are already at war with them there is no use in replying but how about before we are at war with them?

We can ignore them if they choose not to contact us. However if they contact us in the IBT (In Between Turn) then we have to declare war - after seeing if they have anything nice to trade, of course:)

I uninstalled and reinstalled v1.29f but the fur icon is still screwed up, any advice?

If no comment, then I'll go ahead and move the settler and play until the next decision. Which, come to think of it, will be "do we want to road first or mine first?" I like to mine first, but I don't think it makes a lot of difference. I have turned the invisible slider down so we will pick up some gold when we settle.

I keep a copy of the GOTM21 setup.exe file around. That gives me the option of installing GOTM resources, or returning to normal. I use it when togling between the two types of games.

There is probably an easier way.

It is important to get your icons installed correctly. As I remember, some resources such as horses are invisible, and can only be detected by showing terrain info.

Originally posted by Rocinante
I vote we move the settler to the northern hill--we can still pick up the forest fur on the expansion (I'll see about fixing the iconography) and we don't need it yet anyway. We will pick up a coastal tile by moving which could be helpful later and will get the defensive advantage of being on a hill in case we are attacked. Call me a traditionalist but I see no compelling reason not to settle on the start. Moving NE simply trades away a Grassland, a Plain and (I think) a Forest for 3 coastal tiles (giving a total of 10 coastal tiles after the first expansion). If you really want a coastal city then moving South would seem a better choice (only 6 coastal tiles after first border expansion and captures an extra hill).

But (as I said earlier) we need to get together as a team and decide our goals before rushing into the game.


Ted

Hmmm...I have to respectfully disagree, moving south means we lose the grassland bonus tile until we expand. That's our best tile. Picking up coastal tiles on the expansion doesn't mean we can build harbors later, the coastal tile has to be in the inner ring, settling where we are means we can't build a harbor here later (am I wrong on this?). Moving NE means we keep the Gb tile and pick up harbor ability. Can't see the tiles we lose to the southeast, looks like plains.

What say the rest of you?

I'm ready to go but want to get some feedback on this settler thing first.

We can get through the first section this evening if we can get some feedback going.

After settling, we must choose what to research--we have Bronze and Masonry to start--I vote for W.C. so we can start building archers right away. Then go for wheel or pottery after that.

Well, gee whiz, I guess I'll go work on my C3C RoR scenario and check back later.

Why move?


Ted

Isn't it so that if you move in the first turn instead of founding your first city this immediately shows up in the score board with you having a very meager score in comparison with the AI civs (who don't move) at the beginning of the second turn. And that they see you as weak because of this low score and therefore behave arrogantly? Ok, I see we have always war, but might it not be bad for some trades with the AI? Or am I completely wrong?

Originally posted by TedJackson
Why move?


Ted
I stated my reasons in the post above--must I repeat myself?
any comment on research--I suggested above that we start with W.C. so we can build archers right away.

Posting styles vary. Early on in an SG when you don't know each other it's easy to upset people unintentionally just because of your posting style. It doesn't hurt to just take a deep breath and take a little extra time when composing your posts.

I don't want to appear patronising, just helpful. :)

For the tech tree it depends on what our long term goal is.

If all we are going to do is archer/Immortal rush everyone, then we only have 2 goals techwise; Iron working, and Map Making, after that we shut down research. This is consistent with a small map, always-war, 1000 BC conquest goal. Also the Immortal will serve us very well throughout the AA, and I would expect we could keep the AI from reaching Chivalry.

We are not going to get much except for a few early age techs out of the AI with AW. So I do not have much hope for a reasonable spaceship win. Also with AW, diplomatic wins are not likely.

Domination goes well with AW, so that victory condition we can rely on. The question now is, do we want to add a cultural win in along with it to get the double victory condition bonus, or do we want to maximize our score by achieving conquest as early as possible?

Let me state right now that 90%+ of my game wins are conquest or a result of conquest. It is just my style of play. SO I am biased towards just obtaining those 2 above mentioned techs and then running over everyone with Immortals.

Now back to the starting position, Since I do not expect to reach very high on the tech tree, and we have no rivers, It is unlikely that our capital will grow past size 6. Therefore the number of water squares is not part of the question. With such crude and warmongering goals as I am presenting, ;) My only concern is do we need to build boats. (I am still worried about being on an Island.) My hope is that we are not on an island, and any boat making cities can be obtained via conquest. Therefore I would probably wimp out and just build in place and get the war machine cranking! There will still be 4 forest squares left which is more than enough to help us build a barracks, granary, and maybe a temple.

The most important infrastructure in this strategy is a road network, so as to get our forces to the front earlier.

My appologies for sounding barbaric, but that is how I see this one being fought. (We did say AW after all)

Originally posted by mad-bax
Posting styles vary. Early on in an SG when you don't know each other it's easy to upset people unintentionally just because of your posting style. It doesn't hurt to just take a deep breath and take a little extra time when composing your posts.

I don't want to appear patronising, just helpful. :)
Sorry if I sounded rude but a two word post when we have several questions before us just isn't that helpful. what I am hearing is that we will win this thing before we need the advantages that moving the settler would (later) bring. OK, so we settle in place--I did some penciling out and by turn 20 we will have learned WC, have 2 warriors, an archer, and will be one or two turns from popping the first settler.

I'll make a start and go to about turn 10 and post back here.

Good luck Rocinante.

I will make one last plug for bee-lining towards Iron Working instead of Warrior code. We will do almost no tech trading due to the AW conditions. I would focus on a second level tech instead of a first level tech with that in mind. We are more likely to find and trade cash for WC, than we are for IW.

Also when you meet other civs, does the team have an opinion on if it is better to give cash, or avoid trading at monoply prices. My initial thought is cash does us no good until Republic (long way off) and also does the AI no good. So early on, give what it takes to buy a tech, declare war, and grab as much back when you take their cities. (since they are unable to spend it until Republic either.)
After republic, I would not give so much cash since it can immediately be turned around to rush defenders. :(

Anyone else done some thinking about this?


(BTW, to clarify my earlier post, I win most of my games by conquest. Not by just researching those 2 techs. The statements were not meant to be connected. My error :o )

Originally posted by Rocinante

Sorry if I sounded rude but a two word post when we have several questions before us just isn't that helpful. I found your original reasons for moving inadequate. The two word reply was an invitation to provide better reasons for moving.

I'm still waiting to hear a convincing argument to support moving the Settler.


Ted

Haphazard proposed to go for Map Making because of the possibility our settler is on an island. Though by the time we learn this tech don't we already have several warriors and therefore a sufficiant part of our neighbourhood explored to make out whether we are on an island or not? :confused:

Vaiar, My reason for adding Map Making after Iron Working is that these are the bare minimum needed to try for a rapid conquest. Even on a pangea map, you will often find a few stray Islands. (Horrible thought, an AI civ lands on a 1-hex island :eek: )

Part of what I am doing here by being so verbose, and discussing some items in advance is that none of us know each other. It helps introduce us, and gets the planning going.

BTW, Map Making is 3 techs away, and if we change our minds along the route, going down the "Writing" path puts us in good position for other choices.

Hows it going Rocinante? Have you eliminated the first AI yet?
:D

P.S. as another opportunity to get together, I have a 1-800 conference line available to me. It is toll free to us in the states, but an international call to the rest of the world. :( Just propose a time.... So far we seem to be spread from GMT +2 (scandinavia) to GMT -7(-8) Colorado.

Hmmm...I've been through a number of the A.W threads and I can't find what I'm looking for - I remember betazed wrote a killer post on A.W. strategies as did our very own resident psycho killer Ted. :)
My feelings on what we should do are that we go for pottery at max. , max. because it will leave us without any money that AI might be tempted to contact us to trade techs for. Given the starting position it doesn't look like its worth our while building a granary in the site of our soon to be capital.
I think we should build a warrior first and then use him to scout locally round the cap. to identify a sweet location for our second city - hopefully settler pump heaven. After building our first warrior I suggest we chop the trees on the furs down to help rush a barracks in the capital and use the capital as a vet.warrior pump for future upgrade to immortals after its produced its first settler.
Having thought about it a bit more I suggest we skip the archer rush as remember this was a GOTM and the then map maker Matrix may have decided to make early rushes difficult by starting the nearby AIs on hills.
I think we should go into build mode as haphazard has said we will need a strategic road network that will take our immortals quickly to our enemies and in order to do that we will need a well developed core to provide the workers necessary.
After pottery I think we should go for I.W.
I'm going to trawl through some more threads and see if I can find what I'm pretty sure I read about A.W. - I don't think I dreamed it:crazyeye:

one the plus side:
a)we convert a one-food hill to a two-food town and open up the forest tile for cutting and improving
b)gain abiltity to build boats at this location
c)gain defensive hill location

one the minus side:
a)lose one turn by moving

we got some feedback on tech side, thanks
Iron is good, I was just under the impression we were going for an archer rush and would need WC soon.

I will go with the majority on the settler thing--even against my judgment and it looks like 3 for staying, one for moving, and one not heard from yet so as soon as we agree on the tech to start with I will finish the first turn.

I'm sorry guys but I have had to whip Ted away to a new team so that some new sign-ups can play.

Forgive me, but I have to do these things from time to time.

Well, that changes things a bit
Who wants to take the turn 21 through 30 slot?
I expect you will get to place our first settler and make the first AI contact--which brings us to another question, if I do see a border should I avoid contact or just barge right in?

With Ted Jackson out are we still going for AW?

If we don't go for A.W. My second choice would be 100k. Those are my votes. If we go 100k then we need to get to lit ASAP. Build libraries in cities first not temples. There will be still be plenty of fighting as we will need to get a second core to support the costs of our cultural improvements...well in actual fact given that it is a small map we will have to kill pretty much all the opposing civs to make room for us.

Since it seems like we weren't going to get a concensus on how to start--and the game would go slowly if we had to hash out every choice--I decided, in the interest of maximizing the fun, to just go for it--you can shoot me now or you can shoot me later, your choice.

TURNS 0 - 20

I MOVED THE SETTLER!!!!
Yes I did, right to that nice little hill, my reasons are stated in several posts above so I won't go over them here, you can thank me later

3950bc found Persepolis, 13g+0gpt, Wheel in 27
started on wheel to see where the horses are
hoping to trade for WC--Iron was a long way out 40 turns to start so I went for wheel. Perhaps not enough land to justify a granary so pottery can wait. If we need to we can prebuild granary and learn pottery at the last second.

3750bc Warrior 1 explores to the south

3700bc finish improving the Gb tile, Wheel in 17

3650bc land narrows to the south

3600bc pop hut get settler, move settler (there he goes again moving settlers!) to middle of batch of forest furs located just south of Persepolis

3550bc Warrior 2 explores north

3500bc found Pasargadae--there is a lack of grassland tiles so production in the new town will suffer at first to maintain growth

3450bc Persepolis expands/grows, the people offer to build a palace for us, isn't that nice? Wheel in 10

3400bc W2 pops hut gets angry barbs

3350bc W2 goes elite

3250bc Spearman 1 guards Persepolis, start settler, Worker 1 cuts forest

3150bc W1 sees green border way south, Wheel in 2, turn down slider, 13g+1gpt

3100bc contact Aztecs, trade Masonry for W.C. + 15g, Wheel in 1, 29g+1gpt

We aren't doing AW, I thought about it but I don't think the landscape is conducive to it so I made a trade & left without declaring war

We are a bulge on a narrow strip of land that ends to the north although we can see some land to the west. There may be a way out south, past the Aztecs, but we would have to enter their territory to get past.

3050bc Learn Wheel, start Iron in 20, 30g+0gpt

We now know Masonry, Bronze, Wheel, and Warrior Code.

3000bc Worker 1 finishes road to FURS

Notes:a) I MMd Persepolis to get the timing right on the settler and add a little production to Pasargadae--the citizen needs to be put back on the improved grassland tile next turn

b)the worker should next improve the grassland tile NW of the just roaded fur tile

c)W2 is elite but is way up north all by himself, poor dear, should we have him stand sentry up there in case someone comes by on the bit of land we can see or does he move back south? I vote for going back south where the action is--besides, now that we have explored up there and gone away it may grow some barbs for us to feast on.

d)W1 didn't enter Aztec land, instead he went east to see if there was some land to be seen offshore but there isn't any

e)note the horses -we should send our settler there

f)note the dyes up north

Who goes next?http://jmot.home.sprynet.com/SGOTM1-3000bc.jpg

My advice would be to stick to your original plan guys. Taking Ted away was not meant to change anything.

I guess we are all waiting for a save :mischief:

Ok we're now with only four players left. I agree with sending warrior 2 down south. In my experience having the Aztecs near you at the start is always very dangerous. They almost always start a war very soon with their fast running jaguar warriors. Do you think they'll attack soon? The next settler needs to go south to the horses or even south of it. Might it be a waste of turns to position the next city all the way south on the Aztec border?

A (stupid) question: are you allowed to lurk the other teams' threads and let your decisions be influenced by what they discovered?

Good Morning team,

Glad to see the game get underway, but wow, what a lot of churn since I last looked in. (Curse me for sleeping!!!!)

Ted is gone. We dropped the AW theme, (then Mad-bax chimes in that we should stay with AW, even though we seem to have foregone that point.) And on top of all that, our starting lands suck!

There is no fresh water anywhere on the visible map, and we have a *very* cramped starting spot.

If there was a theme to this scenario, it must have been either to abandon your home continent to find better lands, or to take them by force from your neighbors. (There I go warmongering again :D )

Do we have any more intel on the Aztecs to the south? How rich are they (possible rivers in homeland)? How many cities do they have (lots of land)? (Another note is that by the shape of the border, The Aztec capital has a good chance of being just outside our visibility. (one level of cultural expansion)

As for turn sequence, it still looks like we are still needing lots of MM, and not so much war. Was there a second MMer amoung us that wanted to go next?

Militarily, I have 2 recommendations. Move the spearman south to block against the Aztecs. (There are some great choke-points to sit on.) The other item is to get an archer in place southward to ambush a settler escort.

With so little good land available, we do not want it filled in by the other guys.

The Aztecs are not so bad as a neighbor, The 1-1-2 as their UU is a real waste since it will typically loose any battle it gets into. Its biggest threat is as a raider against workers, empty cities.

I learned by lurking the threads of the other teams that there's iron in our vincinity, that the Aztecs have at least three dyes close to them and some nice grasslands with a cattle and at least two cities (well in Bugsy's game at least).

Vaiar, We should probably refrain from reading other teams posts until after we have submitted the game. The CIV III AI is handicapped enough without us also having omnipotence on our side. :D

Also, as far as tools go, I think only Trade Assist is legal. Most of the others offer too much intel.

It looks like we have our very own Intelligence Agency:) . Good work Vaiar:lol:
But you were wrong to do what you did for two reasons 1) spying on the opponents is bad 2) if you are going to spy on an opposing team - spy on a good team, not one that sucks ;) :D
P.S How are the staff doing? :satan:

I P.M ed barb to wish his team luck. And he tells me they have popped a settler from a goody hut -it could be crap of course but be on the look-out. HINT: In order to have a chance of generating a settler from goody hut we can't be building a settler in any of our cities when we pop it - so change the builds prior to popping any huts.

Actually I am considering opening up all the threads for everone to read. There will be some sort of announcement one way or the other at dawn tomorrow. If I turn up with a rifle and a blindfold then Vaiar had better run. :D

On a serious note... Whatever the decision on "cross-lurking"it will never be permitted to discuss what you learn from the other threads. Don't discuss resource location particularly. It's cheating, and other people in the team may not want to cheat, so don't do it - please.

Sorry for the delay, the forum wouldn't let me in last night and I got no emails pings from here either. However, glad to be here...who do I send the save to or do I post it somewhere? I published it to http://jmot.home.sprynet.com/SGOTM1-3000bc.sav but I don't know if you can actually pick it up from there. I will email it asap to the next player.

Shame on you Vaiar! We can beat these guys without cheating!

If we really want to AW then declare war on the next turn--we haven't gotten any advantage from not declaring yet so it's all the same at this point.

I like your analysis, Haphazard--we have to break through the Aztecs to find more space--we may be able to walk around and back up to the land we can see to the west. Also we may want to build boats as soon as we can and row there.

Who wants to go next?

I have created a maintenance thread for this game >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1744816#post1744816).

It will be used for scores and announcements so it might be a good idea to bookmark it.

Rocinante: You can upload saves to the Civfanatics uploads server.

If you scroll right to the bottom of this page then you will see a link for "Upload file". Hit this link. Then you get a form which allows you to upload up to 3 (I think) files at once.

You are given a link to the directory that your files have been saved in (uploads7 atm) and you can copy the link.

When you post your turnlog, use the "post reply" button rather than quick reply. This allows you to insert "webby" stuff in the post. One of the options is http. If you hit this button then you are prompted for a text name for the link - I usually put >>THE GAME<< or something similar, and then the next dialogue asks for the actual address. Here you can paste the address from the uploads page. You then need to add the actual name of the file on the end. This is case sensitive so beware!

Thats it, you're done!

It sounds complicated, but once you've done it once its trivial :)
(I only get it wrong about 40% of the time now).

EDIT: The link you have provided doesn't appear to work for me. :(

Oops, sorry I didn't know that :sad:

OK, just uploaded "SGOTM1-Samildanach-3000BC.sav" to the upload server. Thanks, Mad-bax, for your help.

Yes - great. but you need to provide a link to it like this

>>Here is the game<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1-Samildanach-3000_BC.SAV)

Use the quote button on this post to look at how the link is constructed. The "http://" button you can see below the BIU buttons is the tool you need to use to do this.

If succession games turn out to be as much fun as I hope they will, then I will be a regular here and want to put my two cents worth in vis-a-vis the rules. It should be forbidden to visit the other threads, period. That is looking ahead in the game and that is not right.

Any way to password-protect the threads?

Mad-bax, sorry I didn't respond to your original PM about skill levels, being a newbie I don't check my 'inbox' but will try to remember in the future--anyway, here is how I play;

I got Civ3 just before Thanksgiving last year and C3C about Christmastime, found this forum in January and read the War Academy lessons & Deity Settlers to bring my game up to snuff (hopefully). Studied the GOTM games and hope to submit a GOTM game one day when I have enough time to finish one. My schedule is such that I can play for 20 minutes here and a half an hour there--I don't feel like that kind of play is conducive to doing a proper job on a GOTM game so I joined 8 PBEMs because you have to play in snatches. However, PBEMs are sooooo slow that I looked around again and found SGOTM and this should fit my weird schedule well.

I play a straight game without any fancy stuff, I mean, the Romans did not reduce corruption in their empire by relocating their capitol to Guam so I'm not interested in doing anything similar.

Every form of diplomatic and military treachery has been used over and over throughout history and so all of that is okay, even to be admired and copied.

I really haven't played many 'restricted' games like AW or OCC because they conform less to real historical situations than regular games do. I originally bought Civ3 because the box said peaceniks could play, too. Warfare is only part of the game, not all of it. I am usually happy to grow my empire in peace and engage in lots of trading. When I get the lead, I stop trading so much and that eventually goads the other civs to declare on me and then I merrily wipe them out until they beg for mercy. Call me wierd but I actually feel a little sorry for those little guys when I kill them and that is why I let them start the wars.

It seems, despite the War Academy lessons and such, that everyone plays a very different game, at least the ones I had to take over for when they went AWOL on some PBEMs.

I play Monarch to Emperor level when left to my own devices and when I can't dominate I go for space race or UN to win.

I am playing through the C3C conquests on regent because I want to get through them quickly and get on to playing with other humans because I really don't know if I'm a good player or a mediocre player and want to find out so I can improve my game.

I have only played Pharoah and Homeworld before but never online or with other players. Civ3 is a superior game, imho, and I hope to stick with it for a long time.

Hope this helps--in future SGOTM games you can hopefully team me up with players like me, if there are any as strange as I am.

In this SGOTM scenario we must engage the Aztecs soon even if we have to start the war because they are really in our way. Our only other option is boats but that is a long way out yet.

Get the game Here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1-Samildanach-3000_BC.SAV)
Hope this works--all I get is gibberish, but then I'm using Netscape.

Yes, netscape is a pain... it's because it doesn't recognise the .sav extension. Your team mates might want to zip saves for you as a courtesy. If not, from the page of gibberish you can just hit the "back" button and "save target as" instead. That'll work (maybe).

I haven't been getting at you BTW Rocinante. Just trying to help is all. And thanks for your comments about the rules. I am anxious for everyone to have an input into the rules. In fact there is a whole thread just for that purpose and you can find it >>here<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79841&perpage=20&pagenumber=1)

Had I known you had wanted to play a different type of game then I would have arranged that for you. But if you don't respond to my PM's it makes it difficult for me. In the next game just state the type of game you want in the sign up thread and I'll do my best for you. :)

Who will be the next to play? I'd like to be third or fourth, is that ok? Where should we locate our next city?

I'll go next since both you and haphazard have said you wished to be left to later.
Since we can't go A.W. now, I suggest we just go out and subjugate our nearest opponents and then decide where to go from there. We don't have enough room to do much of anything where we are. I'll send the spear down to the choke point while doing some more ground work.

Thanks Rocinate and Mad-Bax, I am able to download the SAV file.

Looking at the save file, I see we have 19 turns to go on Iron Working, The Aztecs have only 1 other city, and not much cash. They have CB and 20 gold to trade. They do have their own source of Dyes. The power histograph puts us at about 50/50.

Since we have hit a bump on the path to our goals lets have some quick votes.
Question #1 Do we get back on track with AW?

My vote is to wait a bit. I really want to get iron hooked up so that we can swarm them with Immortals. In the meantime, our warrior slips further south to see what there is to offer. (Note a swarm would only need to be 3-6 immortals in size.)

Question #2 Who goes next?

I am still content to back-seat-drive, and let some other MM expert take the next 10-20 turns.

Question #3 Where do we place the next settler?

I vote south, but am not sure if we should go as far as possible to take the land, or just go to get the horses. any ideas.....

One side reccomendation; I would not produce any more spearmen, since you can make 2 warriors per 1 spearman, and once the warriors upgrade to immortals, you have 2x units with 2 defense, and a lot more offensive power.

Hey great! we are all online at the same time. If I could just type faster.;)

You haven't been getting on me at all, Mad-bax, in fact, I really appreciate your patience with me!

Your diligence and hard work on these threads has been first rate.

Don't know what to say about the AW thing except that I thought it was mainly Ted who wanted that--I reread your opening posts and see now that it wasn't just Ted but you and Ted who wanted AW.

If we get cracking on this game we can get it done in a few weeks and then I would be happy to play an AW game with you if you'll have me.

Sorry again about not responding to your PM earlier, is there a way to get pinged when there is something in the inbox?

Originally posted by haphazard

One side reccomendation; I would not produce any more spearmen, since you can make 2 warriors per 1 spearman, and once the warriors upgrade to immortals, you have 2x units with 2 defense, and a lot more offensive power.

Agreed. I'll keep him to hold the choke for the moment. Once he has served that purpose he can be sent to do some pillaging in remote lands - soften them up while our immortals carve up nearer opponents.
I'm playing the GOTM for the moment but should get round to the SGOTM late this evening - I'll check back in a few hours to read any new advice before playing.:)

Originally posted by haphazard
Question #1 Do we get back on track with AW?

Since we haven't gained any advantage yet from not declaring war, it seems only the slightest of fudges to declare next turn and call it AW if we want--but that is just my opinion.

Agree on no more Spearmen. Settler to the horses is my vote.

Question #1 Do we get back on track with AW?

I agree to wait for the immortals, seems the wisest thing to do.

Question #2 Who goes next?

Well, Sam goes. Do you want to be third or fourth? I prefer to be number three :)

Question #3 Where do we place the next settler?

Yep, near the horses and ASAP, the land seems to be quite nice there too.

Agreed, Vaiar is #3 in the roster, and I am number 4. Please leave a few bad guys for me to pound on. :D

You can't play AW. Sorry. If you want to play a varient might I suggest multi victory?

Mad-Bax, are we allowed 5CC challenge? Not that I am anxious to try, just thought I would ask what our options are? We have not yet exceeded that limit.

Happy Easter, everyone!

Yep, happy Easter!!:jesus: :)

ahem....and happy passover! :)

5CC is fine of course.

Is everyone still on holiday? It is very quiet out there.... :scan: ....

Waiting for Samildanach to report back, its been about 2 days since he picked up the game.

Hi sorry guys. It took longer than expected to close out GOTM 30 ...sigh. And I've been busy the last couple of days but I'm back in the saddle.:)

Its now been more than three and a half days since the game file was posted so let's auto skip to Vaiar.

It is strange that Samildanach hasn't played yet. :hmm:

Vaiar is up.

I'll find out what happened to Samildanach.

Vaiar, after Persepolis produces our first settler be sure to put the remaining citizen on the grassland bonus tile and move the Pasargadea citizens up to the improved grassland tiles so as to get more growth. The archer is a pre-build for whatever you decide to build so feel free to change it. After the settler is built maybe we should go for a city improvement and cut a forest tile to speed it up. The worker is currently on a regular grassland tile with the intention of improving it before going to harvest forest.

3000 BC Pre flight checks. I’ve changed the archer to a settler. Have moved the spear towards the choke.
2950 BC Persepolis has built settler –begins barracks.
2900 BC Warrior moves to Aztec cultural border- spots undefended worker hmm tempting.
2850 BC. Susa founded – begins warrior.
2800 BC. Decided to leave worker alone and move warrior through Aztec territory. Have been told to get out by Aztecs. They had better not teleport me back to where I came from or I’m going to take that worker.
2750 BC.zzz.
2710 BC Warrior teleports through Aztec territory. Spearman at choke. Changed settler to barracks in Pasagardae.
2670 BC. Zzz.
2630 BC. Susa builds warrior – begins worker.
2590 BC. Zzz.
2550 BC. Zzz.

We have a barracks due next turn. I'm building another one but that might not be necessary - fell free to change it to whatever you want. Sorry for being so slooow.

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1-Samildanach-2550_BC.SAV)

edit : if you have played these turns Vaiar then we will go with yours ( especially if you have played them better :) ;) )if not - then carry on with this.

Hmm, I wasn't able to log in yesterday so I didn't notice all this anyway. It's already late, so I'll play the ten turns tomorrow. :sleep:

Hi guys... I was just wondering - have you decided which (if any) bonuses to shoot for yet? I haven't read the entire thread :blush:

So, we have another 10 turns accomplished, that means its time again for the [party] "Backseat Drivers Report" [party]

The Aztecs are still sitting at 20 gold, CB, and still only 2 cities. Considering they are sitting with a mined cow, and if you look under the fog, their pop is at 1. I will therefore bet you that they have a settler on the loose.
The Aztecs are no longer willing to trade us their CB and 20 gold for our Wheel as they were 10 turns ago, so lets guess they have been researching Wheel and are almost done. so they are not much of a trading partner. when it comes to tech.

But!, whats that on the map that I see!, could it be!, YES it is!. I spy fresh water. :beer:

I am really in the mood to get rid of these Aztecs. They are not much good for tech trading, and their land is just to good to let them have it all to themselves.

My suggestions are:
* Since Parsagadae is not growing much, change them to 0 growth and 5 shields to pop out a warrior every 2 turns.
* Our capital needs fattening up, lets clear some land and look for bonus tiles to work. After the barracks is done here, lets generate another worker.
* In 5 turns we find out where our Iron is, Since we have not yet mined any hills, we will have to spend time before it is hooked up, another reason for more workers.
* Pottery should be the next tech after Iron is done since we need granaries to speed up our terrible growth. It is also a pre-req to Map-making which I still see as important on this "island" map.
* Susa, and maybe Persepolis should eventually be put on Wealth, I think we need 20 or 40 gold to upgrade to Immortals, and Parsagadae will by itself double our military over the next 10 turns.

Looked at the save file--good job, Samildanach.

I think we should wake up the spearman and move him asap down to the hill by the Aztec border--they are sure to send a settler northwards soon and we need to be there when that happens--I also recommend waking up the elite warrior and sending him down there too.

Now that we have a nice, tight trio of core cities we should send the next settler to the horse resource.

Putting Pasardadae on no-growth to maximise production is certainly an option especially when Persepolis is at pop 2 or 3 and needs the grassland tiles.

Originally posted by mad-bax
Hi guys... I was just wondering - have you decided which (if any) bonuses to shoot for yet? I haven't read the entire thread :blush:

About the only thing we could reasonably do is adhere to the RBCIV for a 7% bonus. We seem to have already missed AW and 1CC. We have not passed 5CC and that option is still open to us, but with our initial city placement being so packed, we would probably have to abandon our other 2 cities to get better placement, and that is just too extreme.

Do we want to try for multiple victory, or is it too early to tell.

Can someone point me to the details of the Jason scoring system?

Oh, and good luck Vaiar!

Ah yes... Jason. If you work it out you can explain it to me ;)

The link you need is >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=44177)

We are supposed to post the Firaxis score at the end of each turn, sorry I forgot.

SirPleb is a fantastic player and posts many tips, I take his advice seriously and he says "place your settlers like an arrow towards the heart of your enemy" so I think we should send the next two settlers south.

You can just bet that the Aztecs will try to put a settler on the grassland just north of them--we should hustle down there and take out that settler. If we survive the counter-attack we can make peace and put our own settler there. That will give us a big advantage but we have to make it happen. Then we wait 20 turns and attack in force.

Hmmm? Starting a war already? Ok, I am about to play the turns and will try to take out any Aztec settler trying to settle there.

I did my turns and here's my report from the battlefield (yes, I attacked the evil Aztecs). :p

2510BC Pasargadae finished its barracks and I decided to go for the production of
warriors as you said. I switched the city to no growth and it will produce a veteran warrior
every two turns now. I moved out southern explorer warrior to the west on a hill and he discovered
two incense!! We must really beat the Aztecs. The spearman is awake now and going to the southern hills.
The elite warrior is also going down south.
2470BC The worker near Susa finished building his mine. I sent him to the bonus grasslands north west.
The southern warrior is going for yet another hill down south.
2430BC I put Susa on wealth as it can produce nothing of value anyway the next five turns. Susa just completed another worker.
The new worker will cut the trees southwest of our capital. Pasargadae produced a warrior which I sent south.
The southern exploring warrior moved to a hill and discovered nothing really interesting.
2390BC TROUBLE!!! The spearman sent south discovered a jaguar warrior with a settler going north!!!
Persepolis produced barracks and I went for a settler. Perhaps a mightily unwise decision, but I
traded iron working with the Aztecs for pottery, CB and a lump sum of 17 gold. We have iron on a hill nearby.
BTW The Aztecs feel we are technologically backward. I picked the alphabet to be our next technology.
Bad news the Aztecs have iron near them too. Cool, the southern warrior discovered a red civilization!!
2350BC The Aztecs stopped going north and went east to the sea. Probably their next city will be there. I moved the spearman to them.
The red civ is still unidentified :confused: . The new Pasargadae warrior is going south too.
2310BC TWO NEW CIVS DISCOVERED :worship:, Babylon and the Zulu´s. The Zulu´s have mysticism but are not willing to share it for IW and the Wheel and 40 gold. Babylon has nothing buty a single city. The Zulu have two cities.
I am reluctant to attack the Azrec settler with our precious spearmen and moved it back north.
2270BC The Aztecs found a city on the coast and not near the horses. Pasargadae produced another warrior. The explorer warrior moved further south.
2230BC The Aztecs are getting angry and ask to leave their territory. The southern warrior sees some yellow Zulu lines on the map.
The Susa worker finished its mine and goes to help cut the forests around our capital.
2190BC I moved the worker to build a road to the iron with the intention of founding a colony since the location of the iron
is unsuitable for a city. Susa is going for another worker. I moved the spearmen and the elite warrior into Aztec territory again.
2150BC WAAAARRRRR :soldier: I used the elite warrior to destroy (couldn´t take it) the third Aztec city. WOOHAAHHH. The Aztecs didn´t like my move as they
do not wish to acknowledge our envoy. The southern warrior discovered Ulundi near tundra tiles. Also a location with a bonus tile and three weaths!! :)

Here's the save:

:confused: How do I take screenies?

I use a program called desk scan you can download it from here:)

DESK SCAN (http://www.webattack.com/get/deskscan.shtml)

So, we have war.....

I have successfully downloaded and opened the SAV file. Give me some time to look at it. Do you have any handoff recommedations vaiar?

Originally posted by Vaiar
:confused: How do I take screenies?
open your imaging program, I use 'Paint', and then open the game, hit alt+'print screen', then alt+tab to open the imaging program again--finally, hit 'paste'.

Vair, outstanding work, we didn't get the settler but you nailed their town. That impressive trail of warriors will take care of any retaliation.

Perhaps, the handful of warriors we have now are enough to wipe out the Aztecs?

Originally posted by Vaiar
Perhaps, the handful of warriors we have now are enough to wipe out the Aztecs?

Probably not. I've looked at the save and the Aztec capital has walls round it by the looks of it. We would be attacking from the hill but its not enough to swing things our way IMO.

Stop your speculating, I already played the 10 turns. Just having problems with the upload file link at the bottom of the forums. Trying something else now

Well, that uploaded the image from Turn 1803BC, lets see if I can get the Save file up now...... Here is my recap

Pre moves analysis:

Aztecs: I am thinking that Vaiar actually took out their 4th city instead of their 3rd. This
is based upon the different shape of their borders now vs 10 turns ago.

Babalon: Wow, only 1 city. Somebody must be pounding on them. Looking at the map the babalons
might be a choke point with another warmongering civ located to their west.

Zulu: Looking at the mini-map, we seem to be at the southern limit of the world. There is not much
more to explore that direction, and most of it is probably tundra, could be the reason for their
slow growth. Unless it has been them who have been at war with the Babalonians. but then I would expect
to see more units traveling between the two enemies exactly where our unit is now standing. Hmmmm.

For both the Babalonians and the Zulu, I see an excellent choke point directly east of the Babalon capital,
I will move the southern warrior there and park him until reinforcements arrive. This will keep both of
these civs bottled up to the south. :)


My objectives for my 10 turns are:
* to link up the iron,
* get a killer stack of immortals marching south.
* accept no 20 turn peace offers from the Aztecs so as not to hamper the next 2 players.
* Not screw up too badly


2110 switch to cash, granery, move workers towards iron,
Vaiar, I stopped the current worker activities since I saw no advantage of a second fur supply
until we can trade, and the timing for clearing the woods near the capital would waste a lot of
free shields when I was more interested in Iron.

2070 Aztec city founded to the south (near spices), barbarians appear to the north.

2030 sending warrior north to kill barb camp and get 25 gold
southern warrior is at choke point, very close to southern aztec city, will retreat south
to mountains if anyone threatens him.

1990 not much, found the barb camp, will attack next turn,
spearman+veteran warrior are sitting on hill outside aztec capital, will fortify.
worker completes road, moves onto iron, expect to produce 2 immortals next turn.

1950, 2 warriors upgraded to immortals, (2 more in waiting)
barb camp redeemed for 25 gold.
road network started south,
moving healed elite warrior towards aztecs
Can now do diplomacy with Aztecs, they have 3 cities (must have miscalculated before) A worker is
waiting for us when we take their capital :) Too bad he is sitting inactive while we play king of the
hill out here. (Read my earlier post.)

1910 defended against an archer attack out of Tenochtitlan, spearman is now veteran with 1 damage

1870 marching south

1830 defended against another archer, but redlined the spearman.
In order to crank out another archer after only 2 turns Tenochtitlan is down to pop 1. It is now time to pillage :)

****Refer to picture posted from earlier append. ****

1790 still marching south
pillage dyes.

1750 barb attacks healing spearman. Must be another camp south of the horses. Maybe I can promote one of
my immortals on the way south.
Cows south of Tenochtitlan are pillaged.

What?! My ten turns are up, come on...., let me play just 1 more (maybe 2.... :)

Note I am using the following pattern to build 5 roads in 9 turns instead of the normal 10 with 2 workers.
The notation below is "mX" means move to square X, and "rX" means build road in square X. Rocinante, since you
are up next, if you can move the worker on the woods to the horse and build road, and the 2 remaining workers
onto the woods to build a road, that will complete this cycle of micromanagement. After that I would build around
the hills rather than over them. This would also aid us in irrigating northwards during times of peace.

Time ---->
Worker #1:m1 r1 m2 r2 m3 r3 m4 r4 m5 r5
Worker #2:m1 r1 m2 r2 m3 r3 m4 r4 m5 r5


Worker #1:m1 r1 r1 m2 r2 r2 m4 r4 r4
Worker #2:m1 m2 m3 r3 r3 m4 m5 r5 r5

The other two civs are just as lame as they were when I started 10 turns ago. I was hoping at least someone
would develop Alphabet for me to steal. Keep visiting this unit to check for anyone trying to sneak up on him.

Your first 2 immortals will be at Tenochtitlan in 7 turn and the 3rd arrives 2 turns after that. Hopefully you
will only see 1 archer produced out of Tenochtitlan in the interrim.

I have been letting our home cities fatten up in preparation for the golden age that will come. Right now I am
hoping to expand via conquest rather than having to hike the settlers such a loooong way south.

Wow, I just posted the SAV file to the SGOTM1 maintenance thread, and one team has completed by 370BC.

Based upon our style of play to date, and ever changing victory conditions, I am hereby suggesting that we rename our team after me! ;)

Team Haphazard sounds okay to me! Have to go to work right now but will play my turns in this evening. Yes, I heard some teams are already done.

Originally posted by haphazard

I am hereby suggesting that we rename our team after me! ;)

That brought a tear to my eye. You made me proud boy. You are now every bit as egotistical as I am. :) You are a credit to me.:smug:

O.K. we will be the haphazards for the next few days. And then one of the other egomaniacs on the team can have the honour:)

Since, there appears to be a problem of players actually copying other teams strategies. In future if you have what you think may be a ploy that will give us a significant advantage over the other competing teams PM your teamates rather than laying it out for all to see in glorious technicolour in this thread.
Haphazard is right we now need to decide what our goals are ( somewhat belatedly ) and how to maximise our score to give us a chance at beating teams that have the variant bonuses.
I think that we can be competitive and will outline my ideas for doing that by PM to the Haphazards this evening I look forward to hearing your ideas as well:)

I recommend using PowerBar.exe to cripple our enemies.

Oh whoops, was that supposed to be confidential :o

Originally posted by haphazard
I recommend using PowerBar.exe to cripple our enemies.

Oh whoops, was that supposed to be confidential :o

An excellent idea which will probably result in us all being spanked on the buttocks by M.B. Does anyone know if you can upload a file with the exact same nomenclature as an existing file in the upload folder and in the process overwrite the older file? If its possible we can send all our opponents back to one city and better yet they won't know it was us:mwaha: :mwaha: ;)

edit : this is a very crap idea if they are doing an OCC:)

Why is this a crap idea if they are doing an OCC, they automatically blow it then.

Thank goodness you did not recommend loading our SAV files under the other teams names. That would have been too cruel.
(FYI, If we are not able to overwrite their files, you can still burn the other teams by downloading their latest saves, botching 10 turns, and then saving under the *Next* file slot. :satan: Let them try to overcome the overwriting problem. )

Rocinante, hurry up with your turn, Sam and I are getting bored as you can see. :D

Originally posted by haphazard

(FYI, If we are not able to overwrite their files, you can still burn the other teams by downloading their latest saves, botching 10 turns, and then saving under the *Next* file slot. :satan: Let them try to overcome the overwriting problem. )


That is the twisted, perverted calculas of a truly disturbed mind..........yet I find it strangely appealling. Why not ? :goodjob:

1500BC posted here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sgotm1-samildanach-1500bc.sav)

GOT IT! :)

Hope I did okay, took the Aztec capitol, picked up mysticism, learned alphabet, sparked GA, first elite immortal.

1725bc to 1650bc-move units south, build settler
1650bc kill barbs get 25g
1625bc kill barbs get 25g
1600bc move units south, build more immortals
1575bc attack Tenochtitlan, GA ensues
1550bc take Tenochtitlan, elite immortal, found ARBELA, trade 70g to Zulu for Horseback Riding, trade wheel to Babylon for Mysticism
1525bc-1500bc heal units, move units west & south

workers have completed road past horse resource almost to Tenochtitlan.

Pasardagea is building temple for culture and to reach the fish tile so it can grow one more citizen.

Score: Us=103, Aztec=99, Zulu=70, Babylon=64

Sam, Vaiar, Haphazard--my hat is off to you guys for some fine gameplay!

Super turns Rocinate!!!!

Here is the [party] back seat drivers report [party]

Aztecs, they are on the ropes. They have nothing to offer us except their land. We will get their last 11 gold through conquest.

Babalon, They are probably our next target. They are still stuck at 1 city. This is either because of our blockading warrior (which may be forced to move soon) or because of another civ on the other side of them. They have only 2 gold. :(

Zulu, This is where we have to make a decision, do we want a fast world onquest, or do we want to start nurturing some allies, trading partners. We can continue to bottle the Zulus up to the south, and they will stay there until we give them map making. (They do not even have alphabet.)

Another question on where do we want to go, is what to research after writing. At this point we can trade contact and hopefully learn the location of the 2 remaining civs.
A long term game would want us to get the great library followed by republic, a conquest game would be to shut down tech if everyone can be reached by land, or map making if we are all on seperate islands.

For the coming turns Sam, please place a guard on the iron. There are too many barbs popping up in empty places, and I do not want to waste another worker on that.
Also, spend another 40gp and place an immortal on the northern border and farm the barbs there for an elite. It is not worth making the warrior up there elite since he will loose it when promoted into a useful unit.
Try to capture at size 2 the remaining aztec cities rather than raising them.
And most of all, good luck.

BTW Rocinate, super placement of Arbela (aka Panama City). This is a primo location for ship building and basing a 2 ocean navy out of. :goodjob:

Thanks, Haphazard---this is a fun way to play Civ3, I"ve already learned a lot from you guys.

O.K I've read everyones advice. I'll play now.
Good job everyone. Nice tech trading Vaiar before declaring war and equally good work destroying the Aztec city with the elite warrior. Sweet set up work from haphazard. And a very nice enemy capital from Rocinante :) and good barb harvesting.
I just have to make sure now that I don't drop the ball:)

Sorry Haphazard - I got your PMs after I played so if some things seem a bit dumb thats why :)

1500 BC. Upgrade warrior to immortal.
1475 BC. Elite warrior kills reg archer. Researching writing at minimum.
1450 BC. Upgrade warrior to immortal. Increased research to 80%. Traded alphabet to Zulus for 105g.
1425 BC. Vet. Immortal kills reg. Spear in city. Elite immortal kills reg. Spear in city. Vet. Warrior kills reg. Archer in city. Teotihuaucan is ours. Increased research to 90%.
1400 BC. Zzz.
1375 BC. Upgrade warrior to immortal we now have 10 immortals. Vet. Warrior loses to reg. Archer. Vet. Warrior kills redlined reg archer. Teotihuacan now hooked up. 1350 BC. Elite immortal defeats reg. Jaguar.
1325 BC. Pasargade builds temple. Holy cow we now know what the Babs have been up to. Spot stack of two warriors and two settlers …I pause to wipe the drool from my T-shirt.
1300 BC. Vet. Warrior kills reg. Babylonian warrior. Elite immortal kills reg. Warrior Capture 4 slaves –sweet.
1275 BC. Those crazy cats the Zulus demanded cash off us and declared war when we refused. Kill barb. Village 25g.
1250 BC. Aztecs destroyed. Dyes hooked up to the grid. Writing researched begin MM at 90%. Score 121.

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sgotm1-samildanach-1250bc.sav)

Another great 10 turns behind us. But now I am pissed. I get the Immortal factories going, and it looks like you 3 are going to kill off everyone before I get a chance to play. :cry:

I especially like that we captured 4 bab workers. :D So that probably means that we did successfully bottle them up and there was no one on the other side.

Since we are at war with the other 2 civs, there is not much to determine from the diplomacy screen. Did you happen to notice after writing was discovered if anyone had any contacts to trade?

I am still strong towards the "plan B" suggestion in my PM to the team. We can even do it without deleting anything that is already there. ;) My image file is finally out there so you do not need to use your immagination.

Right about now Persopilos should produce a settler, and move him to the "X", we have enough Immortals.

I noticed that the Babalonians were kind enough to build the oracle for us.

Originally posted by haphazard

Since we are at war with the other 2 civs, there is not much to determine from the diplomacy screen. Did you happen to notice after writing was discovered if anyone had any contacts to trade?

I noticed that the Babalonians were kind enough to build the oracle for us.

Unfortunately we were already at war with both the babs and the zulus by the time we got writing which wasn't discovered until 1250 BC.
I didn't notice that the babs had built the oracle - that is excellent news.:)

I just checked the 1250 bc save again. The babs haven't built the oracle. They are in the process of constructing it. I think we should go for the zulus first and hopefully the babs will have constructed it by the time we come for them:) The babs will have no offensive capability since they are building a wonder in their only city so we can move through their territory unapposed apart from the zulus.
A word of warning - don't sign peace with the babs, if we do then as soon as we move our stack into their lands then we will be forced to automatically move them or declare war if we declare war then we lose the RBCIV bonus if we don't then we have no way of reaching the zulus until the treaty expires or we get galleys.

D'oh, my error. I must have zipped through the screens too quickly.

The babs have quite a production center going there with all those mines. But what are the chances that they will abandon the Oracle when they see hostile troops on their land. Vaiar, you should check the wonders screen every once in a while (3-4 turns) and as long as the babs are still building that Oracle, let them. If they stop, take them out. :ar15:


My last memory of the Zulu diplomacy screen is that they had 5 cities including the capital.
To take out the Zulu, you would only need about 2 stacks of 3 Immortals, that will limit the amount of troops we are hiking through Babalonian territory.

Hey Vaiar, please make sure you read your PMs before you play. We have been discussing strategy there, and I have not seen acknowledgement that you have read the posts I have sent.

Hello Vaiar. Even for Netherlands time, you should have climbed out of bed by now. :) Please acknowledge that you have the SAV file and are playing. Also let me know if you can not find your PM mailbox. (It is buried under that "user cp" button at the top.)

To Mad-bax and team, Am I supposed to auto-skip him if he does not check in?

Vaiar may have been under the impression that I would take a lifetime to play my turns again and hasn't been checking in because of that. I think we should give him another 24 hours to post a got it. Are you desperate to start throwing the immortals around or what?:)
I've read your strategy, I found it interesting and I've been digging up some numbers that you may find of interest. Another 24 hours to nail down our strategy and agree upon it , if Vaiar turns up, good, if not fire away haphazard.

Vaiar can be autoskipped if he doesn't post a "got it" within 24hrs of the save being posted. It doesn't mean you have to. Particularly at the weekend I would hope that you might cut him a little slack. But... you are within your rights to skip him.

No problem, I can wait until Monday. Just wanted to check.

Sorry people!!! I was in Paris Friday and Saturday and because I didn't expect things to go so fast, I didn't tell you. God, I love that city :love: I am busy reading the posts now and will play and post tomorrow.

Ok, I start reading the PMs.

BTW Haphazard, I wasn't making a road to get a second fur, but because I wanted to make a road to the iron and make a colony there. I'll play tomorrow afternoon, which is morning in the US. I van't play right now as I still have to hand in an econometrics assignment tomorrow morning.

Geeeez, you get no sympathy from me. The guy didn't even eMail us a croisant or nuthin. :p

Wish I could just run off to Paris on the weekend. (Or actually my favorite is Berlin. There is just something about sitting in a cafe near the brandenburg gate, and spotting the divots in the elagant marble walls that were made by 40mm shells. This is a city that really *lived* history.)

I have had a request by someone wanting to join a team. He/she only has vanilla, and this team has only 4 members and is only up to 1500BC. Can you make room? Don't be afraid to say no - after all it's your game and deadline was quite a while ago.

I think four players is enough but that is just my opinion.

I 2nd the motion. It is tough enough to decide strategy with 4.

Wish I could just run off to Paris on the weekend. (Or actually my favorite is Berlin. There is just something about sitting in a cafe near the brandenburg gate, and spotting the divots in the elagant marble walls that were made by 40mm shells. This is a city that really *lived* history.)

Well, if you measure the attractiveness by bullit holes and shell craters, Sarajevo must be your European favorite. ;)

Even though I live next to Germany I have never been in Berlin and been more in Paris than in my own capital Amsterdam. Rome is my favorite European city though and that city really lived history. Vienna must be beautiful too. Oh, some advice for Americans: when in Europe never go to Napels/Napoli, you might think you are in the third world when you're there.

I am going to play now and post later in the evening. :king:

That settler pump spot is going to cost us two Aztec cities, but you really seem to want so I'll go along. :crazyeye:

:eek: don't disband them Vaiar. We can micromanage. I've Pm ed the team. I think we should all vote here on what we should do.
Do we go for the 10 % bonus plus milk that Haphazard proposes?
Or do we go for the fast conquest with partial milk that I propose?
Or for some as yet unproposed third option?

Since I am favour of fast conquest ( pre BC) I'm against adding another player as the game may be over in 40 turns if i get my evil way:devil2:

Vaiar, it does not have to cost 2 aztec cities. Just make sure those 2 do not steal the squares from the pump. I would only move those 2 cities if we agree on making the ring that I proposed.

Sam, did you have an opinion about the ring, or are we just debating the victory conditions?

...

Originally posted by haphazard
Vaiar, it does not have to cost 2 aztec cities. Just make sure those 2 do not steal the squares from the pump. I would only move those 2 cities if we agree on making the ring that I proposed.

Sam, did you have an opinion about the ring, or are we just debating the victory conditions?

The ring is fine - for the purposes of fast conquest. But we may need to go for a tighter build if we are going to go for say 100k. Thats why I'm against disbanding the Aztec cities until we decide what we are going to do. For the purposes of conquest we can leave the aztec cities and build the ring around them - it won't be optimally efficient. For the a longer term milk we want to consider disbanding them to increase cash flow from the ring to rush improvements or adopting them into part of tighter ring build.

1225BC Changed Persepolis Immortals to settler as you guys wanted. Two Susa workers go for mine building near Pasargadae. Other workers in the south go for a road to the mountain the south. All available units go south. An immortal found another dye in the north west. Some other workers are building a road.
1200BC Persepolis completed the Settler which will go to the settler pump spot. The Zulu warriors didn’t dare to visit the mountain and I attacked them with the 3/5 elite immortals and guess what brought us that?!!!!! A GL named Darius!!! It will rush the palace in our settler pump city. I destroyed all the other Zulu warriors, but will let the Immortals heal themselves on the mountain. I kicked a barbarian warrior in the north west and notice a barb warrior near the former Aztec capital and this unit will be destroyed the next turn.
1175BC The barb in the north west attacked our immortal which became elite afterwards. This unit attacked the barb tribe another time and killed another barb, but there’s still one on its nest. Our offensive units move farther south or back to the save mountain. Our workers complete a road to the 2nd former Aztec city. The mine near Parsargadae is completed. I moved the workers to the south since I think they’ll do more good stuff supporting our settler pump in that area.
1150BC The road to the incense is almost completed. Immortals fortified on the mountain to let them heal. The Anasazi encampment in the north west was destroyed and we looted 25 gold. I sent two workers to the dyes near the fresh water to change the jungle into grasslands. Another worker is mining the left cow.
1125BC I have Susa building barracks after it completed its temple. The two workers are cutting down the jungle. I sent several immortals off to kill the babs. I discovered a Sabadar encampment in the east which will be dispatched in the next turn.
1100BC I had Persepolis building another settler (I hope you like it) and its done now and will go south to take one of the red spots. Persepolis is building immortals now and Pasargadae finished another immortal. I founded a colony incense. An extra worker is clearing the jungle now. Barb camp destroyed => 25 gold. Two new Zulu units spotted which hinder my approach to Babylon, one archer and one warrior.
1075BC Hammurabi wanted peace but I told him to go home as he refused to pay 20 gold per turn. The Zulu units are destroyed and we got ourselves yet another elite immortal.
1050BC Golden Age is over. Antioch, our settler pump is founded and the palace in it hurried.
1025BC A zulu archer was destroyed and the immortals close in on the Babylonians. Some barbarians in the north were destroyed.
1000BC A barbarian in the north was destroyed which gave us an elite immortal. Four immortals (one 2/4) at the gates of Babylon. Settler near our new city spot. I hope I didn’t play too bad.
:(

A GL fantatistic. :D The RNG gods have smiled on us well done Vaiar.

I have the SAV. Good job again Vaiar.

Babs are still building the Oracle so we should back off there.

I will hold off playing until we get the other team members input on Conquest vs, multiple victory.

Rocinante and Vaiar, where would you two like to see this game go?

But just across the bay from Naples is Sorrento which I highly recommend

As far as victory bonuses, I'll leave that up to Haphazard and Samildanach because they are concerned about the score whereas I am not--just like to play the game, that's all.

Read the PMs, copied the map and am ready to follow the gameplan

Pre turns analysis:
Babs wants peace, but there is nothing they have to offer to make it worthwhile. They are still producing the Oracle, so I will let them live. (for now.....)
Zulu also want peace. They have a little gold to offer, but not worth our while.

Goals these 10 turns,
Convert remaining warriors to Immortals
MM is in 4 turns, so pre-build a galley and start looking for the remaining 2 civs
Establish a productive core around the capital with a ring 6.
Not to screw up.

975, An election is held in Arbela, they vote to change their city name to Panama City. This vote passes with a vote of 2 citizens to 1.
Not much else happens, move warriors north for promotion, move elite immortals towards zulu.
950, Zulu horseman appears!
925, Barbarians appear in 3 places!
from deserts South East of tenochtitlan,
in jungle north of teotihuacan (from the dyes)
and north of original capital (tundra again)
Mapmaking in 1 turn, adjust sliders to +5gpt. After MM, I will convert Panama City over to Galley, using the temple as a pre-build.
900, Convert temple to galley, start towards republic
875, First galley heads north along the East coast. I have spotted some coast under the fog near our capital. I miss the differential movement mod used in later GOTMs.
850, Cashing in the barb camps helps keep the tech rate supported :)
Find another land mass SE of old capital, but it looks empty
825, more barbs appear in the far north, and somewhere south of Antioch.
800, Zulus send out a stack of archers and a settler, right next to my stack of immortals. I think we might want to farm the zulu for workers and GLs.
Have irrigated along the road all the way up to panama. This will allow us to irrigate all the way to Persopolis if we want. In the mean time, I am going to work on increasing shields
at Panama City.
The galley is still floating around, all the islands seem to be close together. It has found what I think is another continent, but there is nobody here either.
775, In 775BC, the Babalonians constructed the Oracle. This was considered by many to be a very bad idea, since later that same year, their entire civilization vanished :D (appologies to Douglas Adams)
750, Our single galley was beginning to get lonely as it paddled from vacant island to vacant island. When suddenly it sees a strange purple line in the water. We have found the Iroquois. They have Polytheism, spices, 6gold, 5 cities, and contact with
another civilization known as the americans. We limit our trading to just exchanging maps (Our territory map for their world map)
The americans appear on their world map with only 2 cities. (Glad I did not trade for that contact as the americans are only a couple of turns sailing away. The americans have wine, but must have been at war with the iroquois since they lost two of their cities to the iroquois. On the other hand, the iroquois territory looks like it has been pillaged a lot.

In game score: 172


After turns report
---------------------
We have 17 immortals and 1 galley. We have the strongest power rating in the game. More than the Zulu and Iroquois combined.

We are 2 turns from Philosophy, 4 of the 8 cities in our ring-6 are established. We should fill in more of the areas to prevent barbarians from appearing in between. Those barbs were really active during my turn. I would not want to trigger another age with so many barb camps on the map.

The Zulu want to surrender and give us all 32 of their gold, and polytheism. They have 3 cities. Although one has a stack of death sitting next door to it. :D

The Iroquois and Americans seem to have weakend themselves fighting. We can probably finish them off quickly with the small army that we already have. I also think there is a shortcut between their island and ours, so we do not have to sail around so much. This will be very convenient to grabbing our veterans from the Zulu wars and shipping them over. The Iroquois do not yet have writing, they may be working on Monarchy. Each of these two have 1 luxury resource, They have Iron on their island but it is not hooked up. They have no horses on their island. Their UUs will not be available for a long time so they are just fighting with archers and spearmen. (Or as our immortals like to call them, wet paper towels. :D )

Going the conquest route, there is not much time left in this game. Right now I have all the coastal cities producing galleys, but they can easily be changed to settlers or whatever. We will not be able to make much use out of Republic (or any other tech) in the time remaining, but Since we can not spend cash in despotism, there is not much else to do, but research.

Just to note: If we want to play nice, we can exterminate the Zulu, before they have contact with the other two, and no one will know about any of our warmongering or city raizing. We will have a clean reputation. We also have 4 out of 6 luxuries (furs, ivory, incense + dyes) So economically, we can dominate this game. :D

There are a lot of empty islands out there with good land, Our cities can produce a mixture of galleys and settlers, and then all the real estate becomes ours as well. :D

So to summarize: :D :D :D :D

Majestic turns:goodjob:

Originally posted by haphazard
In 775BC, the Babalonians constructed the Oracle. This was considered by many to be a very bad idea, since later that same year, their entire civilization vanished :D (appologies to Douglas Adams).


:eek: :rotfl:

got save-- will try to have results in about 8 hours.

get 550BC.sav here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1-Samildanach-550_BC.SAV)

how do you do that neat attachment thingie?

Didn't add any settlers near the capitol--finished the granary and we will have a settler built there next turn.

Irrigating grassland doesn't add any food in despotism so I changed some to mines and production is now on the rise.

Did add one town way up north, we had lots of citizens up there but hardly any production because of corruption. Building workers up there now--one to road to the new town and one to cut the remaining forest tiles NE of Persepolis.

Lost one Immortals but did destroy the Zulu and captured Zimbabwe along the way. Made one finger-error and put an Immortal into the woods instead of back up the road--oops, please rescue him, Sam.

Our army is gathering on the coast to be picked up by our galleys and taken to the enemy lands.

score = 208

730BC raze Ulundi and take worker + 5g
710BC learn Philosophy, start Code of Laws
*
*
650BC found Sidon/lose one Immortals
630BC capture Zimbabwe
*
*
570BC Zulu destroyed, take 2 workers
550BC gathering Immortals--wait for boat ride

We now have 3 galleys--two are heading south to pick up the army, the third is also headed that way and we have more galleys being built.

The spearman just south of the capitol was heading there to join the garrison.

Unfortunately, I was unable to finish all the worker projects before my time ran out so it'll be a couple of turns before some of them are available to the next player, sorry, but jungle takes a while to clear away.

We are 3 turns from Code of Law
then we can start a couple of courthouses and begin on Republic

Rocinate, To attach a file, just reply as you normally do, but look carefully between the area where you are typing your message in, and the "submit reply" button at the botton. You will see a section called "Attach file:".

One piece of advice is to make sure the filename is all lower case. It sometimes does not work with mixed case. :confused:

Sam, you are up next. I do not know how much time is left in this game, but how do we maximize score? (You are our resident Jason expert) Do we let the cities we have grow fat, or do we spread out and cover more land?

We need to increase our base score as much as possible. We do this by grabbing territory and increasing our pop. One of the things we have done wrong which I should have pointed but didn't look carefully enough at the city placement plan is to found a city on the bonus game tile. When milking we shouldn't found cites on bonus tiles.
In order to increase our territory score we need to strategically found cities that will increases our territory by more than nine tiles as we may not have time to build temples. As below - notice we get 12 tiles by founding the new city rather than the usual nine.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Maxterritory.jpg

An excellent point, Sam, it is good to get those free tiles whenever possible.

It seems reasonable to shut down research after Republic and spend the money temples and other score-increasing items.

Ok, nice play. :goodjob:

When do we expect to finish the game? Wipe out the other civs ASAP or found some more cities and build cultural buildings?

Hello sam,
I finally had a chance to look over the map and thought I would pass on that info to you.

The "short-cut" between us and the next island is unfortunately 4 squares across. With this in mind, the next GL that appears should build the great Lighthouse. In the meantime, if you are in a hurry to ferry troops over to the other side, you can set up a convoy from Gordium to Grand River. Load up a ship, and have it travel 2 squares into the ocean. On the Grand River side, have a ship go one square out, wake up the troops and have them jump over to the next galley which then spends its next movement point to get out of the sea and onto the coast. (it will not be able to unload until the next turn.) The first galley is now empty, and moves back 1 square and takes its chances at sea.
This will guarantee that no troops are lost at sea, but will occasionally loose a galley on our side of the water, so you should plan on building replacements.

It looks like the Iroquois have hooked up iron to just 1 of their cities. so still not much of a threat. They also have completed writing and are probably trying for MM. Need to knock them out before they escape their home island!

I like your point about settler placement. Notice if you drop one exactly 5 squares SE of Antioch, we get at least 14 tiles under our control.Kind of messes up our ring, but It looks like I was thinking toooo long term for this game. :(

In the north, sidon should be changed to a temple. The other cities producing spearmen should also be looked at.

And as always, good luck.

Thanks :)
I'm going to use AdrianEs technique for ferrying our troops across. I will fill up 40 % of galleys with troops so that we have some slack. Apporimately half our galleys will sink on the journey across but our immortals will be automatically transferred to the remaining galleys so they will get across in one peice. If i get a GL i'll consider buiding the lighthouse or I'll build the pyramids which should help to boost our pop depending on how the war goes.
Your RCP placement was fine Hap- it was the way to go. We still don't know how successful the war is going to be - if it goes badly then it will help to bail us out. Building the core as far out as distance six initially cost us some points but once their temples are up and we infill - it will more than recover them.
If the war goes badly we can disband any cities that are disrupting the core and bring it back to full efficiency. And use it to drive our colonisation of all the surrounding islands.

Thats a new one to me! So when a ship filled with troops sinks in the same square as a ship that does not sink, the troops are automatically transfered? Interesting.

So whats 40% of 3 galleys??? :rolleyes:

but think about this:
Using AdrianE, 2 ships will carry 3 troops and on average, 1 ship
will be lost, *BUT* 25% of the time, 2 ships AND 3 troops will be lost.

The way I calculated it, 2 ships will still carry 3 troops, but with only a 50% chance of loosing 1 ship, And in no case will you loose more than 1 ship and zero troops.

a 25% chance of recreating the loss of the spanish (Persian) armada, actually makes me a little nervous.

Originally posted by samildanach
....I would like to say I did something right in this game, apart from of course winning, but I didn't. I only wish this had been a succession game so I could blame my team mates

Tsk...Tsk.... Sam, watch what you are saying in those other forums.:lol:

Originally posted by haphazard
Tsk...Tsk.... Sam, watch what you are saying in those other forums.:lol:

:D Damn! Found out again.

I was thinking of having about 10 of them and filling four. I haven't looked at the save, so I don't know what the galley situation is. If its only three as you say then I might try it your way and get a foothold on the iroquios continent while i build more galleys.:cool:

I congratulate both haphazard and Rocinante on both being gentlemanly and not mentioning the palace issue. Given the abandonment of our old core your turns were very well played indeed.
Vaiar you may have come to civ from playing conquests in which there are problems with the F.P. at least with 1.15. But in civ1.29 the F.P provides you a second productive core if well placed. .:)
Also I only became aware of the situation when I looked at the save to begin my turns and started to change the builds in our old core. The joke I posted in the GoTM was not a snide barb at your expence. I would hate to think that you got the impression that I was berating you behind your back from that post. Winning and losing are not that important to me that I would take a cheap shot at one of my own team mates - the other teams YES :D but team mates no. Hopefully we can still have some fun and of course win:)
Anyway this kind of changes things - I'm going to send over any elite immortals that haven't as yet generated any leaders and hopefully we will get a GL and I'll use that to build the F.P. in our old core:)

The FP in Civ3 is very important and farming for GLs to rush a FP is common practice. Our old core is already well improved but limited in size--we may want to move the FP from there (if and when we get one there) to the other island, nearer our adversaries, after we've gained a foothold there.

Looks like we need Maps to facilitate our sailing over to the other island. As it is, we can do the ship-chain method to start with but we will need a galley on the other side and I was bring that one back home to pick up a load so it is not anywhere near to being in place as yet.

Actually I did not think we even had enough cities at that point in time to build the FP. (Only 4 cities at that time)

****, forgot about that FP, I thought I read the strategy was to rush the palace in the new zone but I didn't think about the effects of that. ****, I suck :mad: :( :mad:

Hey Vaiar, dont beat yourself up, that is the job of your teammates to do. :spank: But if you will notice, none of us are doing that.

As I noted before, you had no choice at that point in time to build the FP. On a small map you need 7 cities before that build is allowed. (2 more than what you had at the time.)

Originally posted by haphazard
Hey Vaiar, dont beat yourself up, that is the job of your teammates to do. :spank: But if you will notice, none of us are doing that.

As I noted before, you had no choice at that point in time to build the FP. On a small map you need 7 cities before that build is allowed. (2 more than what you had at the time.)

Part of the reason we wanted to keep our options open by not turning of our research and building the RCP core was that for whatever the reason the game didn't run to plan we would still have alternatives that will enable us to win. We have those alternatives because they were discussed - since we don't have the galleys in order to effect a quick conquest of the Iroquois island our priority for now should be to milk the score. Thats what I intend to do for my turns while using the Iroquois to trawl for leaders.
Of course, everyone in the team should give their view on what we should do. If we discuss our game then we will always have options - if we continue to do that - then no situation we find our selves in is irritrievable.
If the RNG smiles on us again and I get a GLwhere do I place the FP, in zululands, in the old core what do the rest of you think?
Do we go for the 10% bonus now? If so what victory conditions do we go for? We need to start thinking about this now so we can plan effectively.

I say go for the bonus--plot it out and I'll do my best to play it. The FP should go on the other continent, imho, nearer our target, that is if we have a good enough foothold there at the time.

If you think the bonus is within reach, we should go for it. Perhaps we should indeed build the FP at the other continent, but will be have enough cities there in a short time (either conquered or built ones) to justify this?

We are all agreed on strategy and its been 2 1/2 days since I posted the save--let's roll.

Sam, go ahead and play, otherwise we are going to have to threaten you with auto-skipping. :eek:

auto-skip to Vaiar
that is two auto-skips for Samildanach--how many until a player is auto-booted right out of this game?

If it were up to me this team would be down to three players--it is very rude to sign up for a team and then not abide by the time limits.

two???? I think this could be the first auto-skip actually? Sam did acknowledge getting the game within 1 day, and we are supposed to give him 72 hours to play his turns. If that time has passed, then Vaiar has the right to grab the save and let us know that he is playing these turns. (I hope you are not off in Paris again Vaiar :D)

BTW, has anyone looked at the SGOTM maintenance thread? According to the graph, it looks like we are in second place.
:goodjob: Not bad considering some of the chaos that has occured.

Also to note is that Mad-Bax is planning to start SGOTM2 about 3rd week of May. Other teams are wrapping up with conquest wins pretty early. We may want to hurry up and win by conquest since our score is really quite good. (We are actually ahead of the curve compared to the staff team as well. :king: )

He was auto-skipped on his very first turn but then posted the save before Vaiar could get done and so we just let it slide. Now he's late on his third time at bat and I don't mind admitting I'm a little POd about it.

It is great we are in 2nd place but remember that finishing quickly doesn't always mean a great score--every turn we play adds to our score.

Since this is Succesion Game of the Month I hope we eventually get monthly starts and I want to be on a team that can finish a game in four weeks.

As I remember the rules there is an order-of-play but there is also a part about how the game cannot be held up because the turn can always be played by whoever is available.

The game has been held up and since Vaiar doesn't seem to be around why don't you go ahead and play, Haphazard?

Technically Samildanach is 8 hours late from this post and can be autoskipped. In real life of course, it's the weekend hoping that vaiar will pick up and play today may be unrealistic, and you can't just skip Vaiar because he didn't read your post within 14 seconds of you writing it.

Your choice is a) give Sam a little more time, or b) pass the game over to Vaiar. If it were me, I'd chill out, drink a few beers, enjoy the weekend and then skip Sam on Sunday evening. But it's up to you.

I'm very sorry to hear the rules are meanlingless, Mad-Bax
Please count me out

Originally posted by Rocinante
I'm very sorry to hear the rules are meanlingless, Mad-Bax
Please count me out

Good. You are an idiot. Ultimately the reason we are having to milk is that you decided to play your own game on the opening turns. Milking takes planning - I'm glad we won't be seeing any more of your gungho "lets roll" ****. **** off.
As far as the game is concerned. I agree with Hap fast conquest is probably still the way to go - it won't be as fast because we don't have the galleys. However, if we are lucky, it could be still on if we get a Great Leader - the priority should be to rush the Great Lighthouse so we can skip across that channel without fear of losing galleys. We don't really need the FP - as we have enough military to take the iroquois continent.
Whee second place - now for first gentlemen - it is our destiny :king:

Now People, we do not get bonus points for eliminating others on our own team. (Or is that an option Mad-Bax?)

:sniper: :ripper:
[plasma] :rocket2:
:ar15: :die:

Sam, I look forward to seeing your turns posted. :)

Hmm, we lost a team mate? That's not nice :saiyan:

Well Sam, just post your safe this weekend then. :o
I hope we'll get a GL soon :smug:

Please don't turn this into a high maintenance thread guys. I have enough to do already, honest. :p

Play nice.

As I said before... Sam *should* have posted his save by now or asked for a skip or extension. Vaiar can wait a while or play immediately, it's his choice.

Originally posted by Rocinante
I'm very sorry to hear the rules are meanlingless, Mad-Bax
Please count me out

Sorry for spamming in this thread. But SG is not one of heihojin's PBEMs and it is really an unwise and sad decision. The 72h is not a rule, it is a code of conduct. Why someone not sticking strictly to the code of conduct might push you to drop? There are many busy people in SG who have to earn some living besides playing Civilization 3. Also, sometimes something can happen preventing a player from playing the turns. Is this impossible to understand? Am I posting something wrong or inappropriate?

Regarding heihojin's PBEM, you can check a very interesting discussion here (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1732&REPLY_ID=24140). I assume that you are over 18 years old and would not be offended by some rude expressions. If either one is wrong, please, do not click the link.

@ akots Its O.K Mad-Bax spams here all the time:D
Looks like Krys got burned playing with some well known yo-yos.
I actually tried to get him into roster C as he is an excellent player but he was content to waste his time with that stuff.
As far as Rocinantes decision to leave the team - its fine by me. He wants to rush through stuff and doesn't contribute to the discussion - SGs clearly aren't for him. I actually knew it from the start and I'm glad he realises it now to.

Hap regarding your P.M. I wasn't deliberately goading him to quit by delaying - my main goal was to get the team to plan ahead - I specifically asked them to do this. I did however appreciate that Rocinante is impatient and that he might quit because of it - I didn't see this as being a negative outcome.

550 BC. ZZz
530 BC. Antioch build settler.
510 BC. Research reduced to 30 % - code of laws due next turn.
490 BC. Code of laws researched. Begins republic.
470 BC. Tyre founded.
450 BC. Zzz
430 BC. Sardis founded. Exchanged Col and philosophy to Iroquois for polytheism and contact with America. The Americans have MM.
410 BC. Our immortals are in gordium.
390 BC. 3 galleys with four immortals( 2 elites) are in position to make the crossing. Another galley is on the other side of the crossing ready to meet them at midway.
370 BC. The four galleys are at the midway point – fingers crossed.
350 BC. Aw crap – AdrianEs strat. doesn’t appear to work. It worked in TJ03C but I wasn’t the one doing it. The idea was that the immortals would be transferred to an empty galley if the one carrying them sank but in this case there were available galleys and we still lost immortals. Hmmm..either I’m doing it wrong or this strat. is BS. Two barb. villages cleared. Two immortals over on Iroquois island.

We should transfer the immortals over as hap suggested we still have 3 galleys. Use 1 to transfer 2 immortals to the mid point and the other galley can pick them up and transfer them safely.

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sgotm1-samildanach-350bc.sav)

Once again, its the [party] Back seat drivers report [party]


Americans: They have Mapmaking, but not the pre-republic techs.
They only have 2 cities.
Since the "Wonders (f7)" screen shows both of their cities producing wonders (pyramids, and colossus) They are not immediately a threat of expanding to other islands.

Iroquois: They have matched us with techs, they have only the 5 visible cities on the map, so even though they have mapmaking, they have not used it yet to colonize other islands. They may still be at war with the americans since their one iron square no longer has a road on it from the last time I looked at the map. :)
Grand River is currently producing the colossus, so that makes Boston and philadelphia the boat making threats. Their military can only be archers and spearmen. They are willing to trade us all their gold, and world map, for our world map.

Just to note, we are inside their borders but not yet at war. If we are forced to leave, our two immortals will move to the mountain square near niagara falls. I do not know if that is worth doing. I am just mentioning it. (Also note that our galley would be moved to a useless location, so this is an important point against this.)

We have a warrior sitting in Sidon to the north. Move him to a barracks and promote him.

We should take out the iroquois quickly before they can build boats and settlers. If that happens, this game might really drag on. :( The Americans are too busy messing with wonders to bother us. Actually I would hope we could knock out Grand River, and the AI would restart the collosus in another city, thereby wasting that production as well :)

So, how do we move our troops across.

Turn1: Move both galleys A and B 1 square towards gordium, load all units onto galleys, move galleys back 1 square to were they started. one movement point is not used.

Turn2: only galley A moves east 2 squares (2mp). Galley B will stay where it is this turn.
Galley C on the "grand River" side moves 1 square west. The troops wake up, and jump over from Galley A to Galley C,
Galley C moves back 1 square and waits. (Can not unload troops this turn). Galley A moves back one square towards Gordium, but will end his turn in the sea and may sink. (50% chance.

turn 3:
Galley C, unloads troops, then moves one square west.
Galley B moves 2 squares east, wakes troops and lets them jump to galley C. Galley B moves back towards its coast, and Galley C moves towards the grand rapids coast. Troops will unload next turn.

Repeat as necessary. Since 50% of the galleys will survive on the Gordium side, we can carry at least another 3 immortals over.

Also, Galley B has one extra turn before it has to ferry troops across, so it could also load the immortal out of Tyre.

Hoi, ok nice I'll play tomorrow morning and read the posts better!! :)

Sounds good Vaiar, so good luck with your turns.

One correction to my notes, don't worry about the immortal in Tyre just yet, I was thinking that galleys carried 3 units instead of just 2, Gordium has enough for the first 2 loads.

Nice description of troop transport Hap. Good Luck Vaiar.:)

Thanks Sam. And next time you run into AdrianEs, give him a good bonk on the head from me too. :hammer:

My guess is that there was no magical movement of troops from one ship to the other, he just happened to be lucky as to which ships ended up sinking.
If I get really bored waiting for my next turn, I will set up a test game to investigate this. I will rename each Galley so as to be able to verify which lived and which didn't.

I am about to start my turns. :scan:

Preturn check

Moved Sidon warrior to Persepolis to get him upgraded. It seems to me that all the cities are having a great time making nothing but temples, but I understand the rationale behind it.
Yuck, Hiawata is out of his tipi making angry noises to our immortals and says that our troops are a declaration of war against his people. Well, that makes a stinky decision for me to take. What to do now? Haphazard argues that our troops will be moved, but most important he raises the question of the position of galley C and its subsequent displacement of Hiawata is allowed to remove our troops out of his borders. So, with our unspoken permission, I take the risk and declare war on the Iroquois.

330BC For some reason dear Abe is pissed with us. We are a country at war now. Haphazard’s galley trick faze ‘turn 1’ is completed. GRRR :mad: Stinking Grand River had at least three units stationed in it: 2 spearmen (both dead) and still 3/3 warrior. Our immortals north of GR are now 5/5 and 3/5. Our southern immortal discovers a barbarian encampment. Workers are building mines everywhere.
310BC Antioch has three turn production line for immortals opened now. The Iroquois don’t do anything in the mean time. We took GR and there was a settler in it, so we have two extra workers now. The immortals are 1/5 and 5/5 now. Second turn of our boat operation completed.
290BC Our boats are still there and two more immortals are on the enemy continent now. Barbs destroyed and 25 gold extra.
270BC The Iroquois don’t seem to notice we’re there. The first three immortals are on their way to Salamanca.
250BC Washington builds the Pyramids and the Iroquois managed to get an archer to GR. The archer was killed and I rushed a spearman in GR. I ferried another immortal over using the boat trick. Let’s hope the galley remains afloat. Some barbs killed. Three immortals are standing at the gates of Salamanca and tow other ones one tile further.
210BC Two spearmen guarding Salamanca were killed. Five at its gates now.
190BC Ladies & Gents, we took Salamanca and are engaged in heavy urban warfare with resisting religious zealots. South-East of Salamanca a warrior and settler were spotted and quickly disposed gaining us two slaves who are to make a road to GR. An archer coming from Philadelphia was destroyed.
170BC Alarm!!! :aargh: Iroquois’ galley seen at the east coast at the continent!!! Two elite immortals are now standing on the mountain near Philadelphia.
150BC The Galley disappeared. The two spearmen guarding Philadelphia were quickly vanquished, but for some strange reason they were frightened of a peasant crowd defending the famous city (only a worker there now). Enormous starvation at Salamanca and after a hurried spearman, the size was reduced from 6 to just 1. Historians will condemn Xerxes later on for this gruesome slaughter.
130BC The angry peasant mob is trying to flee Philadelphia and has annexed the spices to feast on, but not for long….. A strict but merciful immortal approaches the partying crowd and tells them of the accomplishments of great Xerxes and how they can contribute to his glory. The stunned mob immediately stops their orgy and takes its shovels to dig a road to show their commitment to the empire.

These were my turns, I hope I did well :) .... we are loosing money though.

After posting in the maintainance thread I noticed that our former team mate made his own team :ack:

Well, Samildanach noticed that too I see :D

Wow Vaiar, looks like you did fantastic. :goodjob: With a little luck I think I can shut Sam out of this game. ;)

There are nine immortals on the island, so it is just a matter of planning my movement out now to make sure there are no opponents left at the end of the next 10 turn.

I need to put the kiddies to bed, but after that I will take a deeper look at the situation.

You really did well Vaiar, and don't worry about the cash flow. There are no bonus points given for cash sitting in the bank.

Originally posted by haphazard
With a little luck I think I can shut Sam out of this game. ;)


:cry: That ain't fair.;)

I think we have enough immortals to finish the job. I think we should switch Antioch to settlers and fill some more spaces.
Well played again Vaiar:) I was only expecting us to have a foothold by this point.
Something else we could do is pillage our iron supply and start producing warriors for Military police. A lot of our cities are so corrupt that even if we put the luxury slider at max they don't have enough commerce to improve the happiness situation.
I'm not sure if its worth building harbours but once we capture the size 4 american city we may be able to pop rush one there after disbanding surplus units in it. And build one on the continent as well. I don't think we need those barracks - one of those could be changed to a harbour if you decide its worth doing. Hopefully I won't be seeing this game again. Good Luck Hap:)

Analysis:
Washington is down to size 2! What have they been rushing?
Iroquois are almost gone. (Thanks to Vaiar)
9 Immortals on the 2nd continent. More than enough :D
All enemy cities are on grassland or desert, so no extra defense
bonuses.


My objectives for these turns are:

Conquest within 10 turns.
Maximize score by planting settlers as best as possible.


CONQUEST:
The 2 immortals north of Boston should take that city, it is on
desert, after any healing, they turn to Niagra.

The stack of 3 immortals beeline for Washington, 6 turns to
kill that city. This is the one I feel nervous about since washington
has been rush building something. If it is defensive troops I would
like to have a 4th Immortal. If the Boston troops do not need to be
healed, I may split them between washington and niagra. Offensive
troops are actually not a threat since I will be advancing along the
mountain chain

The 2 immortals on the road network arround Salamander will charge
to new york and bypass Niagra. I will not slow them down to take
niagra, leaving that for other troops. Again, 6 turns to kill that
city. (I will also send the immortal in the galley south to New york
to link up with the land strike, the 3 together should take this city.

Remaining immortals will adjust as necessary, probably towards
Niagra/New York.

ETA is 6 turns, or 10BC


PLANTING SETTLERS:
Panama builds settler in 1, he will go north of the horses.
Gordium builds settler in 3, load on boat to go to island north. (can
hit grassland south of iron in 5 turns.
Antioc builds settler in 3 fill in land in desert to SE. (Use workers
to build road this way. If second settler produced, fill in gap in
the SW, again use worker to build road.


Other notes:
With 6 turns to go, I am going to give up on republic
and put all my money into happiness. 100% happiness is -4gpt, so
with 153gp in the treasury, I can be generous. A few "we love the
tyrant day" will also help things along.

Bactra builds Temple in 2, but not enough time for borders to
expand.

Any production with a completion date farther than 10 turns out
(as padding) is abandoned.

geez, this is probably the most planning I have ever done before
a CIV turn. But since I can count the squares seperating my troops
from final victory, I decided to micromanage these last few turns.


SAM, I saw your post, good Idea, I will change the cities over to warriors to keep people happy. I don't think it has any effect on corruption though.

Originally posted by haphazard

SAM, I saw your post, good Idea, I will change the cities over to warriors to keep people happy. I don't think it has any effect on corruption though.

If a city is only generating 1 gold in commerce then even if you set luxury spending to 100% you will still only have 1 gold being spent on luxs in that city. Adjusting the lux slider only has an effect on happiness in ciites which have gold available to be spent on luxs.
At least, I think this is how it works. I could be wrong - remember me and the galleys. Check it out for yourself and see what effect changing the lux slider has on happiness in our most corrupt cities.
Good Luck with your 10 turn finish plan.:)

110BC Damn, who turned off "show enemy moves"!
An iroquois galley, spearman, and swordsman appear out of nowhere.
The galley seems to be moving south next to Philadelphia, The diplo screen with the iroquois still shows them with just 2 cities.
Settler moves back one square to found hamadan on incense in the old Zulu lands. (moved back so as to get bonus tiles under our control.)
Iron Pillaged and everyone building warriors. 1 of the galleys sunk from last turn. The only good news is no barbs have appeared.

90BC Damn again, I see a purple border on the island to the north, Diplo screen shows it as the Iroquois city of Allegheny. Galley with Immortal redirected north to deal with this. At most there is one defender since the galley can not carry more than 2 units. (one being a settler.) But I load up another immortal out of Philly just to be safe.
I take boston and discover a shortcut to washington. ETA there
drops by 1 turn.

70BC Time to throw away money.....
I establish an embassy with the americans, They have 3 spearmen in washington, and another due in 3 turns.
I investigate NYC, it has 2 spearmen, 1 warrior, 1 settler, and 23
turns to complete the collosus. I have to redirect my forces to
add one more unit to the NYC thrust since the unit in the Galley is
going after Allegheny. But, the good news is they have no offensive
capabilities. (except that warrior. hahahahahahahahahahahaha)

50BC [Pun Alert]
Niagra falls.
[/Pun Alert]

30BC Assault on Washington begins. 2 kills, should be 1 unit more.
When Niagra fell, the city was auto pillaged. Those foolish americans then sent the warrior and settler from NYC out to colonize the empty area. They ran straight into my Niagra liberation force. :D, I guess I didn't need that extra unit redirected to NYC after all.

10BC Here it comes......
NYC and washington fall. All workers join with cities to pump up
the population, and the final score is....
Xerces the magnificent with a fireaxis score of 6465.

And I still had one last settler out of our capital that I wanted to
place.

[dance] [dance] [dance]

Well Done Hap!

Nicely played. :)
I am away on business and may not be able to update the scores 'till tomorrow evening. Hope that's OK.

End Game thoughts.

I spent some time looking around the other forums. One comment out there was that this map was very suited to a 5CC challenge, which I would agree with. With a little foreknowledge (which there are some hints that others had) we could have tailored a quick win with the emperor scoring bonus. I wonder how this game would play with such information.

Each of us (including rock) played 3 rounds, and it took us 3 full weeks. On a larger map, or shooting for any of the longer turn victory conditions then this should be renamed SGOTS (succession game of the *Season* (3months))

There were completion dates of 290BC and 90BC, so we were not the fastest. But we have a lot of land under our control, so we may yet overtake some others depending on how Jason will rank us.

I was surprised that one team lost??? But looked again and I guess it was because they didn't evolve enough :D :D :D :D

Team Slinger won with a 1CC in 830AD. My hats off to them as that is a real challenge.

We did beat the Staff team to completion, and have a better fireaxis score, They seem to have found the same excellent cattle farm, city that we did.

Team Bugsy is at 710AD and the americans are planting cities *all* over the map. To knock out this enemy, "RowAndLive" will really have to live up to his name. :) I see at least another few centuries for that team to finish cleaning up.

Team Rocinate should have stayed with us, His completion date and final score would have been better, even if it meant he would not have had another chance to play a round. There is no thread forhim, so I do not know what went wrong on his invasion of the 2nd continent. Maybe he lost a lot of galleys at sea or something.

Most of the other teams saw the advantage of building the panama canal. But a big seperator on score will be how long it took people to find the 2nd island! Some teams will go very late into the AD years I think. I hope they have the patience for it. :p

There were several areas that we could have improved. The biggest being planning, and coordination. Each of us has different ways of obtaining goals. One example is that I was always shocked to see spearman on the map, or in the build queues. While I will sometimes build a defender or two, I am very focused on offense and will build almost exclusively offensive units In this case archers or horses over spearmen.

I also wonder if horsemen could have helped us any? But the Persian Immortal really rocks in the early years. We had almost no casualties from immortals (except those that did not know how to swim ;) ) so most of ours promoted to elite. Compared to the other units we met, we were equal on defense, and overwhelming on offense. Again this says with foreknowledge, the scenario was very well suited to Always War.

This game may have improved my play if I can just slow down and practice it. If about every 10 turns or so, I pause the game and do the in depth study like I was doing for the "back seat drivers report", that would help tremendously. The problem is trying not to get caught up in the "just one more turn" syndrome.

The 1 CC AW team was unlucky - they seemed to have gotten sneaked by the zulus.
We are not going to score that high since we do not have varient bonuses to be added in. Even so, I think we did the right thing by ending it as early as we could. In order to compete with Team Akots emperor bonus we would have had to have milked brilliantly and we probably still wouldn't have come anywhere near them.
The choice of the new core was excellent Hap. Well spotted:goodjob:

RowAndLive" will really have to live up to his name. I see at least another few centuries for that team to finish cleaning up.


:D RowAndLive - pity there are no squid in this GOTM.

We really needed one of the bonuses to be competitive - I think we showed above average warring skills including Roc and would have been just as quick if not quicker on that variant. Yes there were a few spearmen wondering about - I personally wouldn't have bothered with them. But the one at the start that Roc built did give me a sense of security especially when it got to the choke.

Nice play Haphazard and nice score, n'est-ce pas? :)
I liked your back seat driver's report during this game. :goodjob:

I don't think we should have built horsemen though as their offense is too low to consistently beat the spearmen defenders. About the spearmen, one in Parsagadae was from Samildanach (or even from Roc?) and the others by me, probably due the fact that I am playing a builder with short and limited wars normally. But I'll think about it, with only two small civs left, there was not really a point to building them.

BTW Why does Hap's post in the maintainance thread says we killed all the civs in 10BC and the save says 10AD?

The date says 10AD because I had to go one extra turn to get the final Fireaxis score.

Thanks guys, this was a fun game.

Sam, great idea about the squid :D, remember what I suggested about putting our own version of the SAV file in their next slot. :D Edit in a few squid just for fun. (But actually with the rampant barbs, which keep regenerating, those are probably worse.)

I am not nagging about the spearmen, was just noting a difference in how I play.

We do get the RBCiv scoring bonus, but then again, so does everyone else.