Welcome to your SGOTM1 game thread.


First some procedural stuff.
Although the rules for SGOTM have not been set in stone yet, we will be playing to the rules listed >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1733966#post1733966)
Please take the time to read them.

Here is a reminder of your start position
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/civ3gotm1b.jpg

Here are the two saves.

SGOTM1-CivIII1.29f (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1NAME-4000BC.SAV)

SGOTM1-PTW1.27f (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1PTWNAME-4000BC.SAV)

IMPORTANT REMINDER
The file naming format that you use to pass the game on must be rigidly adhered to in order to prevent games getting mixed up.

Name your save files like this

SGOTM1TEAMNAME-DATE.SAV

For example - SGOTM1STAFF-3000BC.SAV

Later on it may be possible to submit the saved games through the GOTM server for scoring purposes. Alanh will have special requirements for doing this which will be made clear at that time.

Roster

smackster
Pindicator
Northern Pike
tao
grs

The order shown above is not the order you must play. When you have decided on your order of play I will amend the Roster above.

The first player plays to the end of the 3000BC turn (turn 20)
Everyone else plays 10 turns from there. Please try to stick to this. People finishing on the wrong turn is my biggest headache believe it or not.

3000BC is turn 20 of course.

Since I play on Macintosh, 1.29f is essential for me.

I would prefer always war, since I never did it before.

I either have to play first (tomorrow evening GMT) or last, since I will be gone on Easter vacation from friday till Monday early evening.

Go ahead and play tao. This team has been formed late for a reason.Shevek and Northern Pike will (I believe) find it difficult to play anytime soon. I'm not sure about pindicator. I've played with both shevek and NP who are extremely reliable partners. I haven't played with pindicator, but have no doubt he will be just as good a team member.

Added grs to the roster. :)

EDIT: Well it had to happen. Shevek and smackster are next to each other on the spreadsheet and I followed the wrong line.

Smackster is in - but I can't change the team name. :wallbash:

Hi all,

as a late applier mad-bax joined me to your team. As I see we seem to be the late starter team anyways. It's ok for me if you start tao, I can play next if no one else wants. I would do my move on Friday and would prefer to get the save some time around noon GMT+1 (which is your timezone too I guess as you seem to be from Germany too).

I hope the other 3 will join in soon - maybe we should pm them each.

I will add some of my thoughts about our start later tonite in some hours from now as I am afk for some hours now.

--
grs

Hey all; glad to be a part of the team! I just wanted to vouch for myself, as I am relatively new to Civfanatics.net, but I am an emperor level player (haven't tried Diety or Demi-god yet, too timid), and am relatively new to the SG idea. I am currently participating in two SGs and from them I believe I have the basic concept down.

But I am very excited to be a part of this team, especially with someone as high a ranking as tao :worship: I know I'll learn a lot from this and will have a blast as well.

Wherever you put me in the order works for me, however the next three days are a little busy, so I may be a little slow should my turn come up then.

Oh, and my time zone is PST (GMT -8).

Just checking in, looking forward to the game.

Smackster

Glad to be playing with you all, gentlemen. :goodjob:

Tao and Grs, it's fine with me if you play first and second.

Pardon me if I'm stating the obvious, but in AW we won't want to send our early exploring units any farther from home than is necessary to locate a few good city sites. Our explored area should expand like a spot of oil, not in straight lines.

First Move.

I would move the worker to the hill on the south, if we don't see a good location then move the settler to the other hill. If we still don't see any good bonuses then I might settle back at the start or near the water if it is fresh. But then what do I know.

Smackster (still dreaming of Barbados)

Just some thoughts from me, while prolly being the novice here. So please only see these as incentives.

Settling:

I see the obvious advantages to exploring to the top of the hills, though the starting tile is not too bad to settle on. Northeast are a coast and two woods and southeast are two plains and one wood. So we can hope for a cattle or wheat to the south and that's it!? I am prolly the novice here, but I would settle on spot and work the bonus grassland, if there is really some bonus in the plains we get it when the radius expands. If not we waste two worker and two settler moves.

Research:

Pottery - Iron Working at max. Then stop or maybe Mathematics at min?! On the other hand we are not going to crank out settlers like mad (I guess), so maybe start with iron working asap!?

Are we going to fix an overall strategy, like

1. What do we trade; e.g. are we giving bronze and iron working away?
2. Will we use the option to "run" from diplomatic contact if we meet another civ soon or are we trying to anihilate the first civ we meet immediately?
3. Are we trying to build a settler factory - surely not on that start tile!?

Just some general ideas would be nice.

I will play the opening turns this evening.

Since nobody objected, I will go Always War.

I wouldn't found on our starting location. Doing it that way would give us a capital with six or seven water tiles, and no ability to build ships or a harbour. Even given that we hope the game will end in the Middle Ages, this would be needlessly limiting.

I agree with Smackster--worker to the southern hill first, and if that doesn't make it clear where we should found, settler onto the northeastern hill. This will give us a good idea of our surroundings before our first crucial decision; and granted my assumption that we shouldn't found on our starting square, it would only cost us one turn in getting our settler to the likely default location, the southeastern forest tile.

Grs, regarding your first point, it would be nice just to sit on Bronze Working and Iron Working, but our opportunities to trade will be so few that we may have to yield BW at least to make anything out of them. We'll just have to play it by ear.

Re your second point, the obvious answer is that there's no need to go looking for trouble until we've got some Immortals built. But I should point out that my opinions reflect what's necessary to survive at deity; I don't claim to know much about the niceties of winning as quickly as possible at regent.

Persia: industrious and scientific; UU is immortal with attack 4: nothing stronger until cavalry; let's try to win before we face them

F10 tells us the competition: Zulu, Babylon, Aztecs, Iroquois, America

4000: worker E to mine and road bonus grasland; no extra food in sight; found Persepolis on the spot; we won't grow beyond size 12 before the game is over; hopefully;
start warrior; research on iron working 50% (make some money for trades on contact)

3750: warrior done; goes S; s next

3700: road done; research up to 90% at break even; worker goes N of Persepolis to mine and road; warrior sees goody hut;

3650: goody hut gives 25g

3550 Persepolis b warrior s spear; warrior explores NW

3500: cultural borders expand; N sees goody hut

3400: goody hut gives settler founds Pasargadae s warrior

3350: we start chopping furs forest

3300: Persepolis b spear goes S to choke point; s settler; N warrior sees dyes

3200: in the south we see dark green borders: Aztecs; no contact yet but withdraw

3150: Pasargadae b warrior s worker

3100: forest chopped; settler in 2 turns since we lack food; we know the north of our peninsula

3000: Persepolis b settler s warrior

Status:
2 towns each pop 1, 1 settler; iron working in 7 turns; 42g; Firaxis score 65

Ideas on how to continue:
contact Aztecs when we know iron working; see what deal we can get
found new city 1 turn S of settler position; build barracks to hopefully upgrade warriors to immortals or build veteran units; road, don't chop forest because we need the shields

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-3000BC.jpg

The Save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-3000BC.SAV)

Got it! Will play my turn tomorrow starting at about 12:00 GMT. Any advice is welcome :)

Given this dry start and the likely length of the game, we may never have the chance to irrigate our homeland. Our choices regarding city locations have to accomodate this fact.

Specifically, if we found on the desert tile just to our settler's south, we'll get a city which--lacking irrigation--will never be able to work more than three land (i.e., shield-producing) squares without running a food deficit. I think we should found on the furs tile just to our settler's west, where the city would have access to fish and would eventually be able to work five land squares (counting the city square itself, in both cases) without a food deficit. Also, a city in this spot would be able to poach one of Pasargadae's grassland tiles for faster early population growth, whereas a city on the desert site would be condemned to a food surplus of one until it could get a harbour built.

Good luck, Grs. :thumbsup:

Northern Pike: I think you are right, though I hate losing the forest when settling there, I will do so - partly for the added shield in the city core.

Are we going to continue research after finishing Iron Working? As we can't make peace we wont be able to trade tech for peace and we will only have one trading opportunity per civ we meet - that's only 5. We will get warrior code and ceremonial burial and maybe a 3rd tech from the Aztechs. Maybe stop researching till then and continue the lower path to Monarchy at max possible?

Any better ideas?

--
grs

Wow, something weird just happened and I got un-registered... took me a while to figure it out, too. I was wondering why I wasn't getting any notifications for thread updates. Mad-bax, if you lurk in on this, I don't suppose you know why that happened?

I like that idea for a 2nd city location. A possible third city could be on the hill NW of the grassland in the south; with us doing AW, that may be a needed defensive bonus.

As far as tech goes, Monarchy may be a good choice just because of the small amount of techs that it needs to be researched to get to it, but what about Republic? I know with GOTM Republic does have some free troops, and that WW is not too bad. I don't have much experience with Republic in GOTM games, so maybe some other people with more experience can shed some light on that for us all.

I also have two additional questions:

1) What is the order?
2) When must we declare war on an AI civ? Immediately upon contact, after first turn, when they contact us? I know there are a couple AW varients out there.

Pindicator - No I haven't a clue. The forums have been a little fragile since the server software update and you may notice that "usercp" is screwed ATM. Just take it in your stride, I'm sure it will all get fixed... one day.

This is just an off-the-cuff reaction, but getting the Great Library with a Great Leader would be tremendous, so it would be a pity simply to abandon the tech path leading to Literature.

I'd had no idea that Republic functioned differently in GOTM play. Does anyone--perhaps Mad-bax, if you're lurking--have a link to this information? And BTW, do the special GOTM provisions even apply in this case, given that no extra download was necessary?

Let's play in the order Tao-Grs-Smackster-Pindicator-NP. Pindicator, I put Smackster ahead of you on time-zone grounds.

We're playing a relaxed version of AW in which the declaration of war isn't required until the end of the first (and only) session of diplomacy with a given civ, whether initiated by them or us. Mad-bax covers this in his rules post (link in the first post here), and you should check his wording.

I am quite sure there are NO rule changes in this game.

Mad-Bax even posted that he removed mace and rambo from the PTW version (for the human players). There are no GOTM rule changes in this game - so no differential naval movement, no upgrade path for swordmen (immortals) and archer...etc.

I PMed him to confirm, but I think Regent is no option anyways. Even in the modded GOTM version, there's no change to war weariness and we may need some MP in cities later on as we can't trade luxuries with anyone, so I definetly vote for going monarch.

The idea about the Great Library is nice, no civ in the game has Writing as starting technologie. I have never had a great leader that soon in a game though and I am sure if we really get one that soon, we will find a way to get him to rush a wonder we need - be it The Great Library or The Great Lighthouse.

I will turn research off after iron working an see what we get from the Aztechs, if I make contact.

--
grs

Inherited turn: changed preferences, checked „show friend and enemy moves“, „ask for build after unit“ and „always renegotiate“

--

2950 BC: worker roads forest, settler moves west, southern warrior and spear stay, northern warrior moves back to Pasargadae

--

2900 BC: Pasargadae builds worker – warrior, worker southwest to bonus grassland, settler founds Susa in fur forest

--

2850 BC: Pasargadae worker roads bonus grassland

--

2800 BC: Persepolis builds warrior – barracks, worker finishes road to Susa – moves to grassland west of Persepolis

--

2750 BC: worker roads grassland west of Persepolis, other worker finishes road – mines grassland southwest of Pasargadae

--

2710 BC: iron working researched, turning research to zero, setting research on pottery – just in case of a hut, iron is found 3 paces south of Persepolis :(

--

2670 BC: Susa produces warrior – settler, worker finishes road and now mines grassland west of Persepolis

--

2630 BC: Pasargadae worker moves southeast to build road to Persepolis

--

2590 BC: workes starts to build that road

--

2550 BC: Pasargadae finishes warrior – worker, the new warrior starts moving south to Persepolis, worker finishes mine and moves to hill north of the iron

Notes:

1. I did not move military around to get us a chance for barbs to spawn in the areas in the fog of war.

2. I did not know the map from GOTM-1 and did not want to look it up, so I stand by the decision of founding Susa where I did, though it turned out to be wrong, maybe.

Plan:

build roads on hills north of iron and with iron, settle in desert southwest of iron to connect the iron, barracks will be finished by then and we have cash to upgrade some warriors to immortals, maybe look for a barbarian camp to the north in some turns (or maybe wait till we see one barb) – the extra gold would be handy and you can barely lose to barbs on regent

Stats:

3 towns, 4 pop, barracks in 6, 74 gold, 2 worker, 6 warriors, 1 spearman
Firaxis Score: 84

Roster:

grs (just played)
Smackster (up next)
Pindicator
NP
Tao


Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-2550BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/2550bc.jpg

Hi guys,

This is a re-run of the first ever GOTM from November 2001. It is a completely standard pure as the driven snow vanilla game.

All the changes that have happened since GOTM16 will be explained when we come to play those maps.

Good progress, Grs. :goodjob:

Mad-bax, thanks for the clarification. Another issue: I've been making the natural assumption that players in this game aren't supposed to have/seek out any foreknowledge of the map, but some of the comments people have made have got me wondering. What is the expected behavior in this regard?

I got it, and I'm playing now

Smackster

2550 BC

Changed Susa to Barracks.

Started research for Alphabet at 10%. This will cost us 40Gold or so and may be worth it. As we will only get one turn of trading we might not get all we need.

Putting the next city on the hill north of iron, I'm just obsessed with RCP and that gives us two cities at RCP 3, then we can chip the road easily if we need.

T1 2510BC

Sending warriors south to barracks. When we road the iron, will upgrade them and send them south to attack. This is much earlier than I would normally do this, but with always war I don't want to wait for them, and we should defeat them easily with immortals. Now we will have an early GA, but that is life.

T2 2470BC

MM'd Perseopolis to get the barracks one turn earlier

T3 2430BC

T4 2390BC

Meet Aztecs, we get Warrior Code and Wheel for Iron Working, Masonry and 55 Gold. They still have Ceremonial Burial. Decided that was cheap to research and we may want horses later.

There are horses about 6 squares south of our area, closer to Aztecs.

We declare war on the Aztecs, they have a jag and a settler next to our warrior and spearman (on hill).

T5 2350BC

Leave spearman on hill, to watch Aztecs. Start to build road on iron, built in 3. Then we will start our forces for attack.

T6 2310BC

Another Jag appears, and the one with the settler moves north. We move our warrior back to join the spearman.

T7 2270BC

Aztecs build a city next to our spear/warrior, we attack and destroy it taking 9 gold and losing the warrior. We build a colony on the iron, as we are still some way from a settler, and I want to launch a two troop Immortal attack now and destroy Aztecs before they get iron hooked up.

T8 2230BC

Warrior completed in Perseopolis, -> Settler

Two Immortals are upgraded, here we come. Aztecs do not attack our spearman.

T9 2190BC

Susa Barracks->Immortal

T10 2150BC

Pasargadae warrior->Settler

That's it, keep fighting, but don't forget to build settlers.

.sav (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-2150BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Shevak-SG.jpg

Nice work. :thumbsup:

I have created a maintenance thread for this game >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1744816#post1744816).

It will be used for scores and announcements so it might be a good idea to bookmark it.

got it, and I'll play it now

Inherited Turn, 0
Change sliders to 9.1.0 to get an extra gpt.

Let's see... two settlers and an immortal in production; we won't have much defense for the settlers when they come out, so the immortals will have to keep it clear with their offense. We have only the one spear; may want a few more. By other AW accounts I've read, we will good defense in the border towns. So I will put the settler from Pasagarde one tile east of the northern Dye, and the other settler north of the iron, where Smackster wanted to put it originally. This means I will have to chop the trees SE of Persepolis to allow the new city to grow.

After settlers I will continue with immortals and an occasional spear for the frontline defense. Okay, here we go

And the worker is roading a forest tile? We have plenty of furs hooked up, and there are plenty of other things that the worker can be doing that are more important. But I do not want to waste turns, either, so I will wait for it to finish first.

IBT - Jaguar Warriors continue to dance around our Spearman to the south.

2110BC, Turn 1
Immortals continue south. Warrior arrives in Persoplis (goto orders from smackster) and I send him on to Susa as that town also has a barracks and is closer to the front lines.

IBT - Jaguar Warrios are moving back into Aztec territory. Where are they going? Another civ at war with them?

2070BC, Turn 2
Immortals to the south.
Upgrade warrior in Susa.

IBT - And the Jaguars come back towards our spear.
Worker finishes roading.

2030BC, Turn 3
Immortal from Susa heads south.
Other two Immortals head onto the forest-tile chokepoint.
Worker moves to unimproved grassland tile NW of Persepolis.

IBT - The Dance of the Jaguar continues.

1990BC, Turn 4
Immortals all continue south.

IBT - Aztec Archer appears. I guess that's what they were waiting for.

1950BC, Turn 5
Unfortify Spearman, and move him north so he can protect the Immortals.
Immortals move south; getting closer, but it's a long hike. We need more workers to help with that.

IBT - Aztec Archer continues to follow; unfortnate for it, it has no escort :rocket:
Persepolis: Settler -> Immortal.

Saving for now.RL has interrupted and two beautiful women say I need to get lunch with them. Who am I to say no? :D

NP. I have decided that since anyone can look at the original game threads to look at the maps and that it is impractical to police adequately that it is pointless trying to keep the threads closed. All I can do is forbid discussion of spoiler information.

A lot of the players are new to this game and format. So I am patiently contacting each transgressor in an attempt to quietly educate them on to the path of rightiousness (or at least I would if I could spell it).

An imminent forum server software upgrade will make it possible to provide private threads for each game. This may be the way to go, so long as it can be set up to exclude people rather than include people. In other words I want everybody except the competing players to have access. A lot of people lurk in SG's.

Fair enough. Thanks for explaining your logic.

Okay, continuing on...

1910BC, Turn 6
Settler from Persepolis moves SW-S-S along road. Decided that although settling where smackster wanted to keeps an RCP of 3, I want to grow towards our front lines to help minimize troop movement time. I plan on eventually founding with this settler three tiles south of Susa. This will keep us within a 3-tile range of the next city for defensive purposes; it will also be on a hill for defense, and have one grassland it can immediately work on to help some sort of growth.
Worker mines. Next I think it should start building the road from Susa to the new city.
Spearmen fortifies on the hill; 2 Immortals move south with the spearmen, and the other is on his way.

IBT - Susa: Immortals -> Spearmen.

1870BC, Turn 7
Upgrade warrior in Perepolis to Immortal.
Spearmen and Immortal stack moves south. The dancing Jaguar Warriors are visible again.
Immortal in Susa moves E-S-S along road.
Other Immortal continues south towards Azteca.
Settler moves S.

IBT - Aztec units are moving around our units towards homelands. I guess I should trigger the GA before I arrive at their cities.

1830BC, Turn 8
3/3 Immortal in far south attacks Aztec Archer. Wins, -1HP, and triggers GA.
4/4 Immortal in far south attacks Jaguar Warrior. JW retreats, -1HP to our Immortal.
Spearmen fortifies.
Immortal in Persepolis moves SW-S-S along road.
Other two Immortals continue south.
Settler moves W.

IBT - Jaguar Warrior attacks our 2/3 Immortal. Immortal wins flawlessly and promotes.
Barbarians sighted north of Pasagarde.
Pasagarde: Settler -> Barracks. Next player can trump this.

1790BC, Turn 9 GA: 2/20
Immortal near Persepolis moves N-N-N to take out Barbarian camp.
Warrior from Susa moves South to give the new city an MP.
Immortals heal up, though I probably shoudl have gone straight for the Jaguar Warrior.
Settler from Pasagarde moves S-SE-S along road. Will let next person determine where to settle. I am a little torn between waiting for the Immortal to take out barbs and settling in the (relatively) safe north, or settling in the south, on the grasslands choke-point tile.
Worker moves into Susa. It's goal is to connect the new town.

IBT - Barbs move north of Pasagarde.

1750BC, Turn 10 GA: 3/20
Northern Immortal moves into Pasagarde.
Worker moves S.
Settler in south founds Arbela. Production set to Worker, though this is certainly changeable to the next player.
I do not move the other settler; I am leaving that up to the next player and everyone's discussion whether it should settle north or south.
Warrior moves south to serve as MP for Arbela.
Immortals and Spearmen in the south stack up; I don't really consider the Jaguar Warrior much of a threat, and would think we should go straight for the cities now. Azteca is not sending much of anything towards us, and will probably fall easily.

End of Turn Report
Our military is strong compared to the Aztecs.
We have 5 Immortals, 1 Spear, 4 Warriors, 1 Settler, and 1 Worker (need more of these, even though they aren't military!)

Slider is at 9.1.0 with Alphabet in 20 and 11gpt income. We can move the sliders to 1.9.0 and put up with a -1gpt deficit, but we will get Alphabet in 5. Will leave this up to the next player, though I recommend it. We are about done with the upgrades until we get Spears to replace the Warriors as MPs.

Not much else I can think of, except that we need roads to the Aztecs to speed up troop movement!

Time to kick some Aztec butt! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-1750BC.SAV)

I've tried three times to upload screenshots for you guys, but even though it says successful upload, I cannot find them in the uploads7 folder. I tried changing the file to all lower case, and still no luck. So either there's something fishy going on, or we have a couple sets of screenshots in the uploads file and I'm blind (which is a good possibility! :cringe: )

I don't see any recent screenshot of our game either, I tried it myself though and it worked - see below.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/1750bc.jpg

I would not settle in the north. We don't need the lux right now and we should kill the barbs there asap and then wait at least once for the barb camp to respawn, so we can a) level our immortals easily on them and b) get 25 extra gold. As cities are placed now, I would settle on the Iron Colony, as it gives 2,2,2 right now.

--
grs

The more I think about it, the more I realize we should max our research for the duration of our GA. We won't have much trade opportunities, and if we want to get to Monarchy ASAP, then we should get Alphabet done just as fast. We can probably learn ~3 techs during our GA without breaking the bank, and then change back to a 40 turn research mode later on. I don't think there are too many more techs that we are going to want (possibly up to Literature for GA) after Monarchy.

1750 (0): Science to 70%, Alphabet due in six turns at 2 gpt. I agree with Pindicator's logic here.

I switch Susa from spearman to Immortal. In principle I like the idea of having some spearmen forward to absorb attacks, but we can have the vastly stronger Immortal in just one more turn (and this continues to be the case throughout the round, in both Susa and Persepolis).

Settler moves south--a northern foundation would indeed be too passive.

IT: Barbarian warrior dies attacking Pasargadae. Our Immortal doesn't promote.

We get our second palace expansion.


1725 (1): Our modest SoD pushes on towards the Aztec lands.

Science to 60%, 4 gpt, Alphabet still due in five turns.

IT: Susa Immortal --> Immortal. At least our despotic GA has brought our cities up to Immortal-friendly spt numbers.


1700 (2): We take a shot at the wandering Jaguar Warrior, which redlines and retreats.

IT: Persepolis Immortal --> Immortal.


1675 (3): Our SoD moves adjacent to Tenochtitlan.

IT: The Aztec response to the threat is to move a spearman out of Tenochtitlan, accompanied by a settler. :smoke:


1650 (4): Three Immortals attack Tenochtitlan, all three defeat spearmen--and ____, the place is still garrisoned, by an archer.

Our northern Immortal disperses a barbarian camp for 25 gold, and promotes to veteran.

Science to 50%, 6 gpt, Alphabet still due in two turns.

IT: Arbela warrior --> worker.


1625 (5): Two yellowlined Immortals defeat a Jaguar Warror and an archer in mildly risky attacks, and Tenochtitlan is ours. We capture a worker.

We discover Alphabet and begin research on Pottery at 50% science, 7 gpt, due in four turns. I'm confident that this short detour on the tech path is justified, since the most useful thing we can do with the shields accumulated in Pasargadae is to build a granary, and then use this town as our settler/worker factory.

IT: Susa Immortal --> Immortal.


1600 (6): Our reinforcement Immortal--the one a little behind our SoD--picks off the Aztec settler/spear pair, and we have two more workers.

IT: A red border, presumably Babylon's, appears south of Tenochtitlan as a new city is founded. The Babylonians don't contact us, and I don't contact them.


1575 (7): We redline a Jaguar Warrior outside Tenochtitlan. I have hopes that it might retreat to a square where we can attack it again, since Ten. has a road network, but it doesn't.

We found Antioch just south of the horses. This wasn't an easy decision. A city on the tile five northeast of Tenochtitlan (with the X of unconnected road) will probably be much better than this one eventually, assuming a nearby FP, and there's always something to be said for starting the more promising town first. But I wanted to bring the horses into our borders without delay, and to found a city which fit well into our road network.

IT: Persepolis Immortal --> Immortal.


1550 (8): Science to 40%, 12 gpt, Pottery still due in two turns.

IT: Zzzz....


1525 (9): Our three-Immortal strike force, now fully healed, sets out for whatever Aztec city is west of Tenochtitlan, destroying an archer on the way.

Science to 20%, 16 gpt, Pottery still due in one turn.

IT: We discover Pottery. Pasargadae's build switched to granary.

I choose Ceremonial Burial (40% science, 13 gpt, four turns) as our next tech objective.

Persepolis gets its second cultural expansion, so Susa can now work its fish tile.

Susa Immortal --> Immortal.


1500 (10): Our three Immortals take the hill next to Teotihuacan (the new Aztec capital), defeating an Aztec archer in the process. A veteran Immortal redlines, though.

Persians 8, Aztecs 0 this round.

Firaxis score 121.

I'm leaving you with a delicate decision regarding Teotihuacan. I don't think I'd attack with only two healthy Immortals and a redlined one available. There's another Immortal, almost healed, in Tenochtitlan--but then, we have to be on guard against both a flip and a Babylonian attack there.

If Tenochtitlan comes under more threat than now seems likely, we'll soon have the option of pop-rushing walls there.

We don't have any progress accumulated on Ceremonial Burial, so that choice is just a suggestion; feel free to change it. As a longer-term consideration, I'll point out that unless we're on a pangaea, we'll eventually need Map Making for galleys--and also because we'd like to trade maps in at least one of our four remaining sessions of diplomacy.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the Babylonians may contact us and trigger our second war at any moment.

We have ten Immortals, with Persepolis and Susa producing steadily, and our road network to the front is shaping up well. Crushing the opponents we can reach in the immediate future shouldn't be hard.

1500 BC, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-1500BC.zip)

Our expanding realm:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-1500BC.JPG

Nice position so far. I think we have an easter break now, since Tao will return on monday evening.

Got it. Will play tomorrow.

With hindsight, it is easy to look at the past:

I would have chosen to get cb instead of warrior code, since we want to get monarchy and with iron and immortals, we have no need for archers.

Looking into the future: It is a small world. Our immortals should be able to conquer it hopefully in the Ancient Age. Provided they can reach their opponents. Thus we need galleys and the Great Lighthouse. Thus after finishing ceremonial burial, we need mysticism, polytheism, writing, and map making.

I would gamble on getting mysticism from the Babylonians (red civ in the south) once we know cb. Thus we will not actively seek contact earlier.

The good point is that we have fresh water at Tenochtitlan. We "only" have to irrigate north. Thus I would not have roaded the hill, but around it. But since we are nearly done, we will finish it.

We need a city on the NE dyes in order to get a 6th grassland for Pasargadae.

Since Arbela is closer to Persepolis and thus less prone to corruption, I switch the worker to barracks. And Tenochtitlan (corrupt) to worker. Antioch I switch to barracks as prebuild for immortal. I would not build barracks here, but use it for future galley building.

Hitting return.

1475: immortal attacks jw, who retreats and is killed by reg immortal who also is promoted to vet
immortals move south, workers build road

1450: archer attacks and is killed without causing damage
2 immortals each win against spear and we capture Teotihuacan and liberate 7 gold; we start another worker.

1425: Persepolis b immortal s next; stupid people want to build Forbidden Palace: no way we invest so many shields; maybe when we get a spare Great Leeader
cb in 1 turn with science reduced to 30%

1400: we learn cb; we contact Babylon and pay 50g for mysticism; then we declare war; our army is strong compared to them
polytheism due in 9 turns at 100% and -2gpt

1375: Tenochtitlan b worker s next (worker irrigates cow); Susa b immortal s next;

1350: Pasargadae b granary s Palace as Great Lighthouse pre-build
immortal destroys Nineveh liberating 11g and being elited; barbs SE of Tenochtitlan

1325: Persepolis b immortal s next; horses are connected and Antioch is switched to chariot; resistance in Teotihuacan ends and we need a taxman; start road toward it; immortal kills barb; science down to 90% at -1gpt with polytheism still in 6 turns

1300: we do NOT attack Tlatelolco since it is size 1 and has no culture expansion; thus it would be destroyed and we want to keep it; move by towards Babylon; there are enough new immortals coming from the north

1275: end of Golden Age; polytheism now 6 turns at 100%, -2gpt
immortal disperses barb camp getting 25g; new barb camp near Pasargadae will give another 25g

1250: immortal kills barb; immortal dies attacking spear escort of Babylonian settler; 2nd immortal succeeds and is promoted to elite; workers are protected by 2 immortals and start road


Hints for the future:
Once the road to Teotihuacan is done, work the cow.
I recommend to not attack Tlatelolco before its culture expands or it is size 2.
I recommend to irrigate north and road south to allow our immortals to reach the southern front against Babylon.
Pasargadae needs more mines, but DO NOT cut the forest: it gives shields.
Harvest the barb camps in the north (and elsewhere) by withdrawing the immortals once a camp is destroyed. Once an immortal is promoted to elite, send him attacking enemies and a new veteran (or regular) to fight the barbs.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-1250BC.jpg

Status:
7 towns
population 15
polytheism in 5 at 80%, +-0gpt
treasury 174 gold
Firaxis 146 (Aztecs 85, Babylon 82)

The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-1250BC.SAV)

grs next

PS: up till now we observed the RBciv rules. Correct?

Originally posted by tao
With hindsight, it is easy to look at the past:

I would have chosen to get cb instead of warrior code, since we want to get monarchy and with iron and immortals, we have no need for archers.



I was thinking about horse back riding at the time, not that I thought about it for very long, although it proved not to make any difference. I agree that it would have been a better decision as we could still build chariots and upgrade them with the wheel, and if you hadn't waited we might not have got Mysticism.

Smackster

Got it and will probably play tonight.

Some questions:

1. Why are we producing a charriot in Antioch? We don't want to explore fast, do we? I'd rather build a spearman.
2. Why are we building a settler that takes ages (22 turns) to finish in Teotihuacan? I'd rather build a warrior (2 turns) to liberate the immortal from guarding the city.
3. I too think getting the Great Lighthouse is the right idea, but don't we plan to get it by rushing it with a great leader? I'd rather use Pasargadae now to build a settler and settle one more city in the south.
4. Can you tell or mark the location of the barb camp SE of Tenochtitlan?

Some feedback would be nice.
--
grs

Chariots are good as they are cheap to build and can upgrade to horses->knights. Don't build the spearman as you will probably never need it. A few chariots/horses/knights will prove more than enough for home defence. In this game I really don't anticipate seeing any attacks on our home land.

You can never be sure you will get a leader, but I think we might see a few with our always war tactic.

1. We don't have barracks in Antioach (and I would not build them because in the future I would build galleys) and chariots are cheap and with the retreat capability are less likely to be lost in case od defeat.

2. West of teotihuacan are/were barbs. Thus we need an immortal. And the settler can be hurried once we are monarchy. And if the norther iron is depleted, we may need a new town near the southern source.

3. You can't "plan" to hurry a wonder; you can only hope for it. If we get a Great Leader now, I would rather hurry the Forbidden Palace.

Edit/add: The barb camps: we don't know exactly where they will appear, but potential sites are (for now) north of Pasargadae, northeast of Teotihuacan, and southeast of Teotihuacan once our immortal leaves there. Since each gives 25g plus the chance of promoting, they are a great "resource".

nice turns tao

Waiting on Tlatelolco is something a brash person like myself wouldn't have thought of. It also is a nice breather for our armies and a good time to help our great roading project.

Which do we think is more important right now? Monarchy or Map Making? I guess the ideal is to have Map Making right after we take care of the Babylonians, or even a little before so we can scout where to attack next. But Monarchy is probably more important in the short term, especially with how our empire is expanding.

Originally posted by pindicator
Which do we think is more important right now? Monarchy or Map Making? IMO monarchy. We also need writing before map making and with monarchy we will research faster (and produce more) and there is the chance that we meet somebody who trades us writing.

Originally posted by tao

there is the chance that we meet somebody who trades us writing.

And then we smash them good, right? :devil2:

Originally posted by tao
Thus I would not have roaded the hill, but around it. But since we are nearly done, we will finish it.
At the time I initiated that project, the hill was a safe location for our workers, and the grassland tile to the hill's southeast wasn't.

Looking at the maintenance thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84561) reveals that we are in a comfortable position (the lead). Probably because we had the early Golden Age. Now let us try to stay on top. :) I would also very much like us to continue obeying the RBciv rules for the extra bonus.

wow, go team! :goodjob:

that early settler pop probably helped us out a lot, but it's nice to be kicking the staff team's butt (so far). I wonder how many other teams have already triggered GAs, especially since most or all are playing AW.

northern, since you put the first post up for our team saves, will you keep updating that for the maintenance thread?

Originally posted by pindicator

northern, since you put the first post up for our team saves, will you keep updating that for the maintenance thread?

That's rather a lot to ask Pindicator. It's easier if the posting player does it. All you have to do is copy the link from one thread to the other when you are posting. Takes about 5.73 seconds. :)

hehe, i presume too much :crazyeye:

I was assuming that we didn't want to convolute the maintenance thead with repetitive posts from each team. But you guys are the ones who get to sort through it all, so however you want it done works fine.

and i must be slow at it, cause i did a test run and it took me 6.02 seconds :(

I agree about the RBCiv rules--let's keep obeying them.

I agree about the RBCiv rules--let's keep obeying them.

You have my vote, too.

1225 BC:
Susa builds Immortals - Immortals.
Immortal disperses barb camp to the north, no loss.
Worker roads mine near Arbela.
Worker and immortal move to Tenochtillan to irrigate north.
Immortals, but one guard for workers, move south to Babylonian border.

1200 BC:
Tlatelolco cutural expands, sealing its doom.
1st Immortal kills spear, no loss.
2nd Immortal kills spear taking 2 damage, libearting Tlatelolco and 21 gold. Aztecs destroyed so we don't need a taxmen. Starting worker.
Other Immortals continue to Babylon.

1175 BC:
Persepolis builds Immortals - Immortals.
We get a piece of palace.
Workers irrigate north and south.
Immortals meet at Babylons border.

1150 BC:
Barbarian appears near Teotihuacan.
Immortals enter Babylonian territory.
Lowering research to 50%; Polytheism still in 1 turn.

1125 BC:
Polytheism researched - Monarchy at maximun (-3gpt; 23 turns)
Tenochtillan Worker - Worker.
Immortals kill barb.

1100 BC:
Immortal kills another barb and continues to camp.
Other Immortal replaces him in guarding Teotihuacan.
1st Immortal reaches Babylon (city).

1075 BC:
Antioch finally gets it charriot, now we are unstoppable! I am so drunken with joy I start another one ;)
Starting to connect Tlatelco (and with it incense) to our network.
MM Tenochtitlan to grow in two turns.
Four immortals siege Babylon and will take it next turn.

1050 BC:
Another barb killed, Immortal now next to camp.
Veteran Immotal attack Babylon, takes 2 damage and ... takes it ?!? They had only one lousy regular spear in their capitol (well we only have one warrior, but we are the mighty Xerxes). We get 13 gold, 1 resister, ivory under the city core and see lands end here. I leave 2 Immortals to guard and stop resistance. Rest continues southeast to next city.

1025 BC:
Persepolis builds Immortals - Immortals.
Susa same.
Resistance in Babylon ends. Veteran Immortal stays as guard and elite to heal.
Taking out the barb camp flawlessly, but no promotion.
We move a stack of 6 Immortals next to Ur. It is size 1 with no cultural and has just gotten the palace, so it will take at least another 4 (if not 5) turns to expand. Next to Ur is the border of the Zulu, but Ur blocks the choke point in our path to them.

1000 BC:

Barb Killer finds 2 more dyes behind the camp and probably another lands end.
Hate me or not; I'll take Ur. We want to trade Polytheism to the Zulu soon and kill them. Their capitol is only at lousy size 1.
Veteran Immortal kills vet spear, loosing 2 life.
Elite Immortal kills bowman losing 3 hp, destroys Ur, liberates 42 gold and destroys the Babylonians.

Summary:

We removed the Aztecs and Babylonians.
Monarchy in 16 at 100% at -3gpt.
299 gold in Treasury.
3 worker, 5 slaves
5 warriors, 1 spear, 1 chariot, 16 Immortals (3 of them elite)
4 luxuries (3rd connected soon and fourth under Babylon)
Irrigation is 2/3 to Antioch with a pair of our workers and a Immortal guard they'll get north soon.
Arbela will have barracks in 1.
Persepolis grows to 5 in 1.

Firaxis: 173

Remarks:

Susa is not growing atm.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-1000BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sgotm-shevek-1000bc-1.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sgotm-shevek-1000bc-2.jpg

--
grs

grs, you are too quick, I was hoping to continue with GOTM 30 tonight, but I do this instead, therefore I got it.

Good set of turns, we are looking like world beaters.

nice turns, grs! two civs in one turn is definitely worthy :worship:

Tlatelolco will not grow in time to build the worker. I'd switch it to a warrior, to get a cheap MP and free up an Immortal from guard duty. In fact, do we want to turn one or two of our newly-conquered towns into warrior producers for MP purposes?

btw -- what have we lost, like one immortal so far? :lol:


Edit: looking at the maintenance thread we are now in 2nd (but just barely) with the adjusted score :eek:
Though the team we are trailing went 5CC+AW so they get a bigger bonus. We'll just have to keep up the :spank:

Very nice progress. Just some minor points:

Tenochtitlan must work the irrigated gras, not the forest. Adjust always!
Tlatelolco must build warrior before worker (not enough food).

IMHO it was a mistake to mine the Tenochtitlan mountain. Shields will be lost to waste until we reach size 6 and wltkd. Improving north is much more important, e.g. mining and chop Persepolis forest for growth to pop 6.

PS: And I really hate it when people are posting wide graphics. ;)

Edit/add: PPS: with 4 luxuries soon connected, we have plenty of happiness and need little mp. Thus I would prefer more workers, even to join them to bring the productive northern cities to pop 6 asap.

Fine stuff, Grs. :goodjob:

I agree with Tao that there's a lot we can do with workers in this situation--but also with Pindicator that we don't want to waste many Immortals on garrison duty. In addition to the warrior from Tlatelolco, I'd like to get at least one out of Babylon before that city is hooked up to our road net.

Originally posted by Northern Pike
I agree with Tao that there's a lot we can do with workers in this situation--but also with Pindicator that we don't want to waste many Immortals on garrison duty. In addition to the warrior from Tlatelolco, I'd like to get at least one out of Babylon before that city is hooked up to our road net. I don't agree. Babylon is on top of ivory and thus connecting it asap means more happiness means higher score. Thus the worker now IMHO is the best. And since Babylon is the at the southwestern edge of the continent, future galleys might arrive here. Thus I would very much prefer to have an immortal, not for MP, but for defense. IMHO the question is: another worker next or a settler. This depends on how many slaves we get from the Zulus.

Tlatelolco can do the warrior/worker cycle.

Our northern cities should be able to produce all the immortals we need, since (at least up to now) we have extremely small losses.

At least 2 new settlements are necessary:
1. on the NE dyes to give another workable tile to Pasargadae
2. to access the 2 deers/forests which are just great

Once we are monarchy, I would very very much like to have all northern cities at stable pop 6 with maximum production and commerce. It should also be possible to bring Persepolis and maybe also Susa to 10 shields per turn. Then we can disconnect the iron and produce 2 vet warriors per turn, to be upgraded to immortals. Do this e.g. for 5 turns and we have 10 immortals to squash the Americans and Iroquois. Once we have learned map making, we probably can stop researching and have all the money we need.

Sorry for wide screenshots, I normally avoid them as I hate to scroll text sideways myself, but it was late yesterday and I knew I would not have time till the weekend again.

Working wrong tile - sorry my mistake (though I can't check it atm). About building the worker in a size 1 town: sorry again, but I tend to be a bit careless about that, as when I play on my own, I check these (and all other production) 1-2 turns before finishing and adjust then, but this does not seem to be such a good idea in a succession game, i have to admit.

Edit (added):

I'd first build the deer city to the south as we can at least farm the barb camp north 2 more times before building a city.

I'm having internal CD drive problems, so was not able to play last night. Strangely enough I can get PTW to work from a USB CD drive, but CivIII will not work from that, maybe I would need to reinstall from that drive for CivIII.

Anyway, I'll try to resolve this today, if not I'll skip.

This is already the third CD drive in this laptop if you can believe it.

Smackster

The CD ROM drive is broken for sure, there is a good chance I'll get another one tomorrow, and if so I can play tomorrow night. If I don't get it by the end of my work day I'll skip, so give me another 24 hours and I'll let you know then.

Smackster

I hate to sound paranoid, but we seem to be moving south through our landmass--is it an island or a lanky, weird-shaped continent?--fairly quickly. So I'm going to bring up the old question of Map Making vs. Monarchy again. And this time I've changed my mind.

After our 16 turns to finish Monarchy, we will probably have 7 turns to research writing and then perhaps 10 or so on map making as well. That's 33 turns. If we get Writing from the Zulu (which I would say is a necessity) then that's only 26 turns. So with that in mind:

Best case scenerio-- All civs are connected on the same continent that snakes around the map.

Worst case scenerio-- The zulu are it on our island and unless we get map making soon we may find ourself with nobody to attack for twenty or more turns while we research map making and then find the enemy.

So far all the talk on our team has been about winning as quickly as possible -- which would probably be a conquest victory as there is not much as far as settled territory out there to trigger a domination win. With this goal in mind, can we risk finishing off the Zulu and then finding ourselves alone on an island?

If we can trade with Zulu for Writing, then I would advise we stop Monarchy and go to Map Making immediately -- I know, even at the amount we've put into it, I believe it still too risky to continue research on considering how long it will take.

If the Zulu do not have Writing to trade for, then I say we do not have a choice: we have to start researching Writing immediately.

Unless, however, we decide to change our victory goal.

I really think this is an important issue that we should bring up for debate again: just look at our mini-map; there can't be much more land there. And according to F10 we have the Iroquois and the Americans to go, still.

I see no reason to change. We will have monarchy in 16 turns and we will need some turns to remove the Zulu. After trading with them we will need the 2 techs as described and we will probably need the Great Lighthouse too, as it seems improbable that we can reach the other civs just via coastal squares.

Unless we are really all on one island - which I doubt - we will for sure need many more turns before finishing the game and we will need monarchy too, as the productivity loss in despotism will be too high.

We will also need some turns to settle the land we just conquered to get a forbidden palace (if we can't rush it) and to work our land. I see no need to panic here.

--
grs

Originally posted by tao
I don't agree. Babylon is on top of ivory and thus connecting it asap means more happiness means higher score. Thus the worker now IMHO is the best. And since Babylon is the at the southwestern edge of the continent, future galleys might arrive here. Thus I would very much prefer to have an immortal, not for MP, but for defense.

This is becoming a long debate over a minor point ;), but:

1. Hooking Babylon up to our road network should be a job for our workers presently around Teotihuacan, not for a presumptive worker out of Babylon which wouldn't appear for another eight turns, and

2. A warrior built in Babylon could perfectly well relieve an Immortal of garrison duty in some other city. Right now we have three Immortals occupying cities, and the conquest of Zululand will produce at least one more instance. One warrior out of Tlateloloco and one out of Babylon, before both are linked up and lose their ability to produce them, is hardly excessive in this context.

I agree that we should found as many new cities as seems feasible before the end.

I think Pindicator raises an important point about Map Making and Monarchy, and I agree with much of what he says. To deal with the area of disagreement first, if we can't get Writing from the Zulus (whom we should contact ASAP), I think we should just stay with Monarchy. But if the Zulus do have Writing, then I think it's very likely that a switch to Map Making would shorten the game. So I assume that this would be the best policy--although, since I've never played a GOTM before, I don't absolutely know whether X turns off the date of conquest or an extra X turns in monarchy would add more to our final score.

On a point mentioned by Grs, given a) the land mass we know of in the northwest, b) the coastal tiles visible southeast of Persepolis, and c) our incomplete exploration of the peninsula north of Teotituacan and the one Babylon's on, it seems pessimistic to assume that we'll need the Great Lighthouse to make real progress.

I'll mention, too, that since we'd obviously revolt as soon as we got Monarchy, the turns of anarchy have to be added to the time we'll be losing on Map Making if we research Monarchy first.

Originally posted by Northern Pike
if we can't get Writing from the Zulus (whom we should contact ASAP), I think we should just stay with Monarchy. But if the Zulus do have Writing, then I think it's very likely that a switch to Map Making would shorten the game. I regret (because we invested so much in monarchy), but I have to agree. Assuming that our goal is to win by conquest, but IMHO that is evident because it will be no fun to go spaceship. ;)

I would stick with the Great Lighthouse build, because we have/can build all the immortals we probably need, and having the extra movement point and save seawater should shorten sea-voyages significantly.

In the other coastal towns, we can pre-build with temples for galleys.

Originally posted by tao
I would stick with the Great Lighthouse build, because we have/can build all the immortals we probably need, and having the extra movement point and save seawater should shorten sea-voyages significantly.

Certainly. I wasn't arguing against the Great Lighthouse pre-build, just questioning the implication that we can't achieve anything useful overseas until we have the GL.

I also have to question just how much Monarchy will help us. I believe the unit support for Monarchy goes 2/4/8 and Despotism is 4/4/4 -- and since all of our towns fall under the first category, we may even find ourselves losing commerce due to troop costs, as we have very few rivers, and also have no aqueducts, most likely for the entire game.

Switching from Despotism to Monarchy was the obvious choice for a warmongering game I think, not so much in troop support, but loosing the labourer depotism penalty.
Now that it seems to be a very short game, I regret going monarchy myself, but at the time I had to select a next research, it seemed to be the right choice - at least to me :(

It's nothing to worry about, Grs. In the middle of your round, I'm fairly sure, the situation hadn't developed enough for the choice between Monarchy and Map Making to be more than a guess.

I got a new Cd drive so I'm back in business. Will play tonight.

Smackster

1000BC

I change Susa to produce settler. I think we have enough Immortals based on what I see, I'm still going to keep producing them but to get more score we need more cities and I see plenty of free land. We really need the FP also. I'm not sure about that GL pre-build as its only getting 4 shields per turn with not much chance of getting any more. I'll leave it for now. In say a Diety game I think that GL would never finish.

IBT Arbela Barracks->Immortal

T1 975BC

Meet Zulu's and trade Poly for Writing and 26 Gold.
Establish embassy which was a waste of 33 Gold as it didn't tell me much, only that they had two impy and two archers in their capital.

Move 4 Immortals onto hill above Ulundi, one archer is outside.

IBT

T2 950BC

Tlatlelolco build warrior->worker

Elite Immortal attacks lone archer from hill, and..............Darius is our leader

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Leader_copy.jpg

Yes that is what we needed, now we can buld the FP, sorry that is what its going for.

Immortal kills barb to the south

IBT Zulu archer kills a vet Immortal

T3 925BC

Immortal kills the archer
We decide to hold Darius, want to see the full extent of the Zulu lands before I decide on the position for the FP.

Incense is hooked up so our people are very happy

T4 900BC

Persepolis Immortal->Immortal
Susa Settler->Immortal

The land does appear to end with Zulu, who have three cities left, one of which they just built.

Barb camp dispersed near Tenoctitlan

Decision point to build the FP either at Tenochtitlan, or Tlatlelolco. I guess I like Tenochtitlan.

I'm going to move it that way, wont get there in time, so could be changed.

T4 875BC

Susa Settler->Immortal

We don't really need any more Immortals. Just got to get MM, and find the rest of them. Suggest a little more infrastructure, settlers and workers, yes more than we are already doing

Ulundi grows to size 2 and is taken without loss. Decide that we should capture all their cities as they can do nothing to hurt us. and it will save getting the settlers.

That's all for tonight, will finish tomorrow

Wow, good fortune smiles on us with the GL! :goodjob:
I think I agree on your choice of FP-placement; an army would probably not be as beneficial, especially since we are going to be looking to milking our score.

I didn't see it in your post, but you hinted that you changed research to Map Making? Or are you staying with Monarchy? Not going to try to persuade anymore; the turn's already in your hands. But if you have switched over to Map Making, you might want to check out tao's idea of using temples as galley pre-builds. Seeing which towns this is feasible in is probably a good idea (which of course depends on how many turns left to research MMing vs. how many turns the city needs to produce 30 shields).

That's probably a good call on the infrastructure idea. Let's use our down town to milk our score as much as possible. The question then is, at what point should we stop building new towns and start maximizing growth / stop settler and worker production / even joining workers to towns.

Man, there's no way I'd ever think this far ahead in a game on my own. I'm always full of :smoke: moves.

The Great Leader is Great News. FP is the way to go. We don't need an army .

To speed the Great Lighthouse, may I suggest to found the new city on the northern dyes. The NE ones. This gives Pasargadae an extra tile to work. Mine these tile, as well as the other ones. Join 2 foreign workers to Pasargadae to reach size 6 asap. Cut forest at Persepolis and give another mined tile to Pasargadae.

Pre-build for galleys with temples.

OK, about to play the next 5 turns. I am still working on Monarchy, getting closer to it, I imagine when we build the FP we'll get a little boost that will get us closer.

After the FP is built plan on building cities exactly 3 squares it as that will minimise corruption there. I will do as Tao suggested and get some help to Pasargadae.

Smackster

T6 850BC

Vet Immortal kills Zulu archer.

Our leader reaches Tenoctitlan but can't rush it until next turn

IBT a barb horse appears to the north

T7 825BC

Arbela Immortal->Settler

Forest cleared south of Arbela and now we'll be able to take the irrigation all the way up to Perseopolis

IBT Barb Camp appears right next to our settler near Tenoctitlan

T8 800BC

FP is built. 7 turns to Monarchy.

Tarsus is built near Tenoctitlan in a great spot with two dear. Barb camp is dispersed, but a barb remains, spear comes to defend.

I set Tenoctitlan and Tarsus to build Barracks but I'm not convinced that is what we want. It can be changed by the next player.

2 Barbs attack our spearman he survives and promotes to vet.

Immortal kills spear near Teohituacan

T9 775BC

You might be wondering what is happening with the Zulu's, our troops are now at the gates of Zimbabwe. Just to reiterate this plan is to only take cities we can capture, no need to auto raze any, we have plenty of time.

T10 750BC

Teotihuican Settler->Settler

3 Immortals attack Zimbabwe, 3 wins but an archer remains.

There are two settlers that have just got the place where I was going to settler them.

Score 204

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/shevak2.jpg

750BC .SAV (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-750BC.SAV)

Nice, the Zulu should be done soon.

Just some remarks/questions:

1. Ulundi should work the mine on the bonus grassland.
2. We should start pre-building for galleys asap.
3. Knowing all the landmass I really see no reason to build any more charriots! We don't even have horseback to upgrade them, but even if we had it, do we really prefer to fill our galleys with horseman instead of immortals? This is no pangea map.

I guess we finish monarchy now and then research map making?

--
grs

Yes, no chariots but immortals.

And I would NOT build a settler in Arbela because it will take ages to grow again and we need the production. Maybe in Babylon.

And you are correct: pre-build for galleys.

It is me up next, right? Just making sure, so if it is consider this my got it. Won't be able to play until tomorrow night, though, so if I'm wrong on the order, you've got until then to correct me :D

Also, will look for some more input on how best to milk our civilization while we wait for Monarchy and Map Making to come in.

Roster:

pindicator - up next
Northern Pike
Tao
grs
smackster - just played

Okay, here goes.
Goals for this round:

1. Capture all Zulu Cities. Should happen easily
2. Research Monarchy (in 4 turns), then Revolt.
3. Begin Research on Map Making (looks to be approx 8 or 9 turns after revolt is finished).
4. Begin Galley Pre-builds. (For 4spt towns this will take 8 turns, 3spt towns 10 turns, 2spt 15 turns. We should have Map Making in about 12 non-anarchy turns.)
5. Milk our territory for score (priority to settlers then temples -- i believe that is the correct order).

I am starting to question the productivity of switching to Monarchy, but it was what the group decided and I am not entirely convinced it is a bad thing to do (thinking entirely in terms of score), so i will revolt upon learning the tech.


750BC, Inherited Turn
MM Ulundi for growth.
Change Persepolis from Chariot to Immortal
Change Arbela from Settler to Temple
Change Susa from Chariot to Settler
Change Tenechtitlan from Barracks to Settler
Change Tlatelolco from Chariot to Temple
Babylon kept as Barracks for galley pre-build.
All the pre-builds I changed were because they could finish something else before buildling a galley. Hope I didn't over-step my bounds in changing builds.

IBT-
The people decide that we need stairs for our palace.
A barbarian galley appears outside of Antioch. Does this mean somebody else already has map making? Too bad we can't contact (and kill) them.

730BC, Turn 1
Northern Settler founds Gordium. Production set to warrior, though I was tempted to make a worker.
MM Pasagarde to work that additional grassland.
Southern Settler founds Bactra. Production set to Temple.

4/4 Immortal attacks fortified archer in Zimbabwe. Flawless win.
4/5 Immortal attacks fortified archer in Zimbabwe. -1HP and ANOTHER LEADER!!! With celebration we welcome Cyrius to our army.
:jump: :thumbsup: [dance] :beer: :sheep:
Okay, now what to do with this one? I have two ideas. The first is rushing the Great Lighthouse once we learn Map Making, the second is rushing Hanging Gardens (for milking score) once we finish Monarchy. Pasagarde has 100 shields built, currently, and will not be able to finish either wonder on its own. Now that we have a Leader, should we switch Pasagarde to something else and use the Leader to build the Lighthouse?
Zimbabwe set to Warrior. Two workers were captured.

Disperse barb camp for 25g. Immortal to 2/4.

I decide to change Pasagarde to a settler (town will grow next turn, anyway) and use the Leader to build the Lighthouse.

IBT-
Pasagarde: Settler -> Archer. Chose Archer because its a little too early to start a galley pre-build, and an archer can almost be considered a cheap immortal, as it takes an MP away. Plus the archer is probably a better choice than the spearman.
Zulu Warrior emerges from Hlobane.

710BC, Turn 2
Science to 80%, Monarchy still in 2 now running with 2gpt income.
Decide that despite the distance, more growth opportunities are to the south, so I move the settler south.
4/4 Immortal defeats Zulu Warrior. -1 HP

690BC, Turn 3
Science to 60%, 7gpt Income; Monarchy next turn.
Road to Zulu complete. Move some workers north, but will keep some to finish the road to Bapedi.

IBT-
Discover Monarchy. Set to Map Making, due in 7 at max research with -4gpt. Revolt immediately, wondering if the settler at Susa due this turn will be built. Oops, turns out I probably should have waited on that. And we drew a 6-turn anarchy, so that will be the remainder of my turns.

670BC, Turn 4
Not much of note here. Still waiting for Zulu towns to grow.

IBT-
Barb horseman appears beside Gordium.
Bapedi grows. The harbinger has been born.

650BC, Turn 5
Immortal from Gordium kills Barb, winning flawlessly.
First Immortal attacks Bapedi, and dies without inflicting damage.
Damn you RNG! The second Immortal meets the same fate, and the Impi can only smugly smile back at us.
The third Immortal redlines without a hit, and then wins four in a row to smite our enemy. Wheh, but now I will have to shuffle some Immortals around to continue the attack.
Change Arbela from Temple to Immortal to compensate for our later need of them.

Drat, my warrior builds in Ulundi and Zimbabwe were auto-changed to Immortals. Gordon hasn't been, though. Anyway, I change both towns to Archers.

IBT-
Zulu archer appears out of Bapedi.

630BC, Turn 6
Both Zimbabwe and Ulundi are undefended, but I lack the troops to take Bapedi as of now and keep a watch on Hlobane. I probably should shuffle troops down from Hlobane, but I am stubborn like that. Am moving troops south, as well. In the end, I decide I dont' want to risk a major setback and move the troops from Hlobane towards Bapedi.
Elite* Immortal kills archer, -2HP

IBT-
Wonderful! Bapedi shrinks back down to size 1.
:wallbash:

610BC, Turn 7
Immortal in north kills barb camp.

590BC, Turn 8
Settler founds Sidon on east coast. Production set to Archer, but this should probably be changed.

570BC, Turn 9
...zzzz...

IBT-
We become a Monarchy!

550BC, Turn 10
Pasagarde changed from archer to Temple. This is a galley pre-build.


End of Round
Map Making is now due in 6 with a -4gpt deficit.
Antioch's Temple can be seen as a pre-build; there will only be 6 shields wasted after switching.
Tarsus's Barracks are a good pre-build.
So are Babylon's Barracks.

I missed my window at Bapedi; just got unlucky and I guess they rushed something. In frustration I wanted to just wipe it out, but realized that razing either of those towns helps us zero. Unless we have settlers without room, we just need to be patient.

The Great Leader is currently in Susa. I moved him all the way up there because I figured a northern town was the most secure location for a wonder.

Persepolis will build an Immortal next turn.
Susa builds a settler next turn.
Ulundi and Zimbabwe currently have NO MPs. They are both building archers; Ulundi's will finish in 2 turns with the forest chop.

Firaxis Score: 247

Get ready to sail the seven seas! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-550BC.SAV)

Whow. Another Great Leader. Amazing and terrific.

And you wait for Bapedi and Hlobane to grow in order/culture expand in order to capture them. :)

What I don agree at all(!) are some of your other choices. I would stopp immediately the chopping at Pasargadae, Tarsus, and Antioch. The forest gives us much need shields. IMHO we will not research up to construction and build aqueducts. Thus we must get as much as possible out of pop 6.

In Ulundi, it might be good to build a temple to get access to all these nice wheats. Building it supported by wood cutting.

And IMHO we could use another worker. From Bactra?

I would NOT build a settler in Susa. It is one of our productive cities and will take too long to grow again. Also: mm it to use the furs.
MM teochtitlan to build settler in 2 turns.

Northern Pike: The decisions are yours, but please stop cutting these forests. Cut forest at Persepolis; it has enough of it.

I guess I took the idea of increasing our pop and milking our territories to levels of zealotry. The settler at Susa I was uncertain of, also, only that I wanted one from somewhere (which ended up being Pasagarde). If you think the forest chops are more harmful than helpful, dont let me ruin a city's production -- please cancel them in that case.

I was only thinking of cutting cities that couldn't grow any more without the grassland, and probably got greedy at the thought of a +5 food tile with the game, but that probably was a :smoke: move.

Seems we are on a great leader spree!?

Just some ideas:

1. If we plan to settle all land for score, we should concentrate settler building to 1 or 2 cities with granaries. I think of switching Tenochtitlan and maybe Teotihuacan to granary and then start pumping some settlers out. Otherwise we waste too much food and pop. I agree to "no settler from Susa".

2. We should bring irrigation to Tlatelolco immediately (after 1 round in which chopping has finished), because it is not growing atm.

3. Why are archers better than spearmen? We won't use them to attack anyone anyways. Archer are in danger of losing to barbs if we move most of our immortals away from our island.

edit:

4. Regarding the Great Leader: Susa could (and should?) be mm so that it builds a temple in 5 or 7 turns (depending on choice). After that we have Map Making and could rush the Great Lighthouse there.
--
grs

Got it. Thanks for all the input, gentlemen--it's good to see this level of enthusiasm. :goodjob:

IIRC final scoring will be done according to the GOTM rules. Thus Firaxis score is nearly meaningless. Much much more important is to finish fast. Thus having the ability to prebuild for galleys NOW is much much better than building another settler/town. We probably should stop research after map making and use all the money for hurrying galleys first (4-6), then units.

IMHO it would also be important that the Tenochtitlam settler builds a town which allows access to the southern iron. Then we can disconnect the northern one, build 10 shield warriors, connect the iron, and upgrade warriors to immortals.

Why can`t we just disconnect the northern iron and reconnect it afterwards?

Originally posted by grs
Why can`t we just disconnect the northern iron and reconnect it afterwards? Because it is outside of our culture. Thus we have to build a colony by sacrificing a worker.

And it is always good to have a fallback, if one iron source expires.

Umpf, next time I won't post without looking at the game again - it's really been some time since I had it in hands.

--
grs

550 (0): I implement most of the above suggestions.

Persepolis Immortal --> Immortal.

Hlobane gets a cultural expansion, so we can attack it next turn.


530 (1): We take Hlobane without loss, two Immortals defeating two Impis.

I move our Immortal garrisoning Babylon around so that we can dispel the darkness from as much as possible of the surrounding sea--a minor point, but it should have been done earlier.

Tenochtitlan settler --> settler. This town gets such good population growth that I don't think working in a granary here would pay off before the (probably imminent) end of the game.


510 (2): Ulundi spearman (assisted by forest chop) --> spearman. Now that we hold Hlobane Ulundi has access to the wheat without a cultural expansion, and our Immortals-as-garrisons problem is worse than ever.

Arbela Immortal --> Immortal (as galley prebuild).

Bactra worker --> spearman.


490 (3): Irrigation, etc.


470 (4): Our Immortal on the peninsula north of Teotihuacan defeats a barbarian warrior and discovers another barb camp.

Science rate down to 50%, 11 gpt, MM still due in two turns.

Teotihuacan settler (rushed) -->Immortal (galley prebuild).

Susa temple --> Immortal (galley prebuild).


450 (5): We disperse the barbarian camp for 25 gold. This brings our victorious Immortal to the tip of the peninsula north of Teotihuacan, and he spots coastal squares to the northwest.

We found Tyre next to the southern iron.

We discover Map Making. I choose Mathematics as our next objective, but set the sliders to 10-0-0, 43 gpt.

Persepolis Immortal --> Immortal.


430 (6): I switch eight towns to galley builds, with minor loss of shields (13 in total) and one cash-rush (Zimbabwe, 88 gold).

Our first four galleys appear.

Tenochtitlan settler --> settler.

Ulundi spearman (with forest chop and cash-rush) --> spearman.


410 (7): Preliminary galley moves--nothing exciting yet.

Babylon galley --> galley.

Cyrus rushes the Great Lighthouse in Antioch (I choose this town because it could use a cultural expansion), so:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1-410BC.JPG

390 (8): We discover a purple cultural boundary--the Iroquois, of course--in the sea off Sidon.

Sidon galley (rushed) --> spearman.


370 (9): We found Sardis on the peninsula north of Tlatelolco.

One of our galleys easily defeats the attack of a barbarian ship.

Persepolis Immortal --> Immortal.

Susa galley --> Immortal.


350 (10): We discover a blue border--America's--in the sea east of Zimbabwe.

We pick off a Zulu archer outside Bapedi, without loss.

Persians 3, Zulus 0 this round.

One elite victory didn't produce a Great Leader.

We haven't contacted the Iroquois or the Americans yet. Our two galleys off Sidon, containing four Immortals, STILL HAVE THEIR MOVEMENT, so you can time our move against the Iroquois as you see fit.

Once we discovered the Americans, I switched some of our galley builds to ground units, but you might want to go further in this direction.

The only direction in which we aren't exploring is to the east of Persepolis--but now that we've located all our enemies, this may not matter much.

We have a settler in position to found a city at the tip of the peninsula north of Tlatelolco.

There's no reason why we couldn't found an overseas city or two before the end, on the uninhabited islands now appearing to east and west.

Ulundi has just received the benefit of another forest chop, so I'd cash-rush another spearman there immediately.

Bapedi should get its cultural expansion, and become attackable, this interturn.

350 BC, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-350BC.zip)

New cities, new borders:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1-350BC.JPG

Great news! Let's just hope none of them has already built galleys and settled on more than one island.

Once we discovered the Americans, I switched some of our galley builds to ground units, but you might want to go further in this direction.
I think 7 galleys + 2 more in two turn are more than enough if we can get a map from at least one of them soon to get proof they haven't settled too many isles.

May I add that we can now make great use of our charriot?! ;)

I guess we are going for fastest conquest - or do we want to get a better score by settling most of the left space and milk out some score?

--
grs

Nice turns, Northern. A lot better than mine.

With the GOTM using Jason score calculator, I'm not an expert on it but what I understand is that milking is next to impossible. The way to get a high Jason score is to win as quickly as possible, so the only reason I see to milking our score (by creating settlers, etc) is if that city cannot in any way help contribute to our quick annhiliation of the last two civs.

Tao probably knows more of the specifics about the Jason score, though.

Population, land space, happiness, are the key factors, which will help our score, Jason or Firaxis.

However, with Jason there is a bigger bonus for finishing early, so the best strategy is to finish early while maximising the above.

So we should poplulate every space we can find. Rush temples for culture expansion. There is always a trade off for military vs settling, so we just have to find the right happy medium for doing that. We should concentrate on military domination, while still pumping out settlers to fill every gap.

My expectation is that we will find the other two Civs very weak and so should crush them very soon.

Smackster

Preturn 350bc:
I look at the game and decide to change a few things. We also need more workers to improve the tiles we work. IMHO the settler in the western jungle was wasted; workers would have been better.
Hurry worker in Sidon. Change productions to immortals. Upgrade 3 warriors to immortal.
Send galley and make contact with Iroquois; they only have 2 cities: get horseback riding, mathematics, wm, 19g for polytheism, contact to Zulu; do not get contact with America. We do not have a complete map of America. At least Washington is missing. They have at least 5 cities. Declare war on Iroquois. Send 2nd galley.

turn 1: 330bc
Tenochtitla: immortal s next
Tlatelolco: temple s worker
Arbela: immortal s next
Bapedi has culture expanded and we attack killing 2 Impis, capture worker and destroy the Zulu.
4 immortals land on Iroquois soil.
Hurry galleon in Tarsus.

turn2: 310bc
Pasargadae b galley s horse
Antioch b galley s immortal
Tarsus b galley s immortal
we attack Grand River:
vet immortal is redlined but kills spear; 2nd wins withou loosing hitpoint; reg immortal kills warrior without loosing hp; vet immortal looses vs. archer and we don't capture Grand River :(

turn 3: 290bc
Persepolis b immortal s next
vet immortal kills Grand River archer, promotes to elite and we capture the city with a settler->2 workers
2 galleys with immortals arrive and 5 immortals move towards Salamanca

turn 4: 270bc
3 more galleys bring 6 immortals
hurry immortal in Arbela

turn 5: 250bc
Persepolis b immortal s next
Arbela b immortal s next
hurry worker in Sidon
kill Iroquois warrior

IBT: Lincoln pops up and wants to trade tm; we deny
he has construction, but doesn't want to give it for polytheism; thus we get 23g, wm for our wm and declare war

turn 6: 230bc
Iroquois warrior kills our wounded immortal
Tenochtitlan b immortal s next
Babylon b immortal s horse
Susa b immortal s next
Tarsus b immortal s next
Bactra b immortal s next
Sidon b worker s next
Washington builds The Pyramids
upgrade chariot to horse
vet immortal kills spear
vet immortal dies spear is yellow
vet immortal kills spear
vet immortal kills warrior and we capture Salamance with worker, settler->2 workers

turn 7: 210bc:
Pasargadae b immortal s horse
upgrade warrior to immortal
hurry immortal in Antioch
elite immortal kills American warrior

turn 8 190bc:
Persepolis b immortal s horse
Teotihuacan b horse s next
Antioch b immortal s next
Gordium b immortal s next

turn 9: 170bc:
America attacks w 2 swords an 1 archer: all die
hurry immortal in Tarsus

turn 10: 150bc:
Tenochtitlan b immortal s next
Ulundi b immortal s next
Arbela b immortal s next
Tarsus b immortal s next
we destroy Philadelphia after killing 2 spears liberating 1 gold and 1 worker
we capture Boston w the American iron after killing 2 spears liberating 1 gold and 2 workers
2 immortals die before we capture Niagara Falls liberating 2 gold

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-150BC.jpg

150bc Firaxis Score: 363

everything should be over soon; there are 2 immortals and 2 horsemen on the western galley, 4 immortals on the southern two

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-150BC.SAV)

Good work. :goodjob:

We may have reached the point at which we could best use our remaining gold by setting the luxury rate as high as possible.

Pre-Turn: nothing

IBT
Settler + Warrior move out of New York
Resistance in Niagara Falls ends.
Some things are built.

130 BC
vet. Immortal kills reg. Warrior and captures settler
Galleys unload
Immortals move towards Washington & New York

IBT
reg. Archer attacks vet. Immortal and dies
Some things are built, again.

110 BC
Washington:
elite Immortal kills reg. Spearman
vet. Immortal kills reg. Spearman
takes Washington, the Pyramids and 3 Worker (one of them Iroquis)

New York:
vet. Immortal kills reg. Spearman
vet. Immortal kills reg. Spearman
takes New York and destroys the Americans

Pre Win Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-110BC.SAV)
game crashes with Perdiaicons error....
Post Win Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-90BC.SAV)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-victory.jpg
I'll hold that bet!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM1SHEVEK-score.jpg
Our score.

Nice playing with you all!
--
grs

Your Jason score is 11000 and some, which puts you in the lead as far as base score goes. I'll update the charts shortly.

Congratulations everyone. Shevek would be proud ;)

Good job to finish it off, grs! :goodjob:
And great job team! Best base Jason score so far!

So how does the adjusted Jason Score work? The adjusted Firaxis appears to uses the Variant Bonus, but the adjusted Jason Score bonus seems more variable. It's my curiosity of how things work piquing again. :crazyeye:

I had a great time playing on this team, and definitely learned things to improve my game. Thanks again everyone!

It's not rocket science. You just put the adjusted Firaxis into the calculator instead of the base firaxis. I've used the old curve simply because it's game 1.

Fine work, gentlemen. [dance] I hope we're able to play together again--though probably not until August, in my case.

And Mad-bax, thanks for all the work you've put into making the very entertaining SGOTM concept a reality. :king:

Wow, what a quick win. Great game everyone. Our early GA and going always war made this possible.

Imagine how quick we would have won if we got Map Making first.

Smackster

Are we going to apply as a team for the next sgotm?

Northern Pike will not be available for the next game I understand. Therefore the rest of the team is welcome to stay together for the next game if that is your wish. Because you are looking good for the Green Laurel, it will possibly mean that your ratings will be adjusted upwards. So, I doubt I could allow ALL 5 of you to play together again for a while - but 4 of you is fine. You're just too good. :) ...

What is the Green Laurel for. I note we have the best Jason score, but a long way from the best adjusted Jason. Actually I'm a little confused as teams that got three bonuses seem to triple their Jason score, but teams with only two (like us) only double. Seems like a bit too much of a bonus.

Smackster

It is somewhat hidden in the announcement thread, but here is the link.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1771266#post1771266

Regarding the scores and the jason system for this game. The problem is imho that the dates for the victory conditions are too high in this gotm.


Conquest 150AD
Cultural 20k 1700AD
Cultural 100k 1600AD
Diplomatic 880AD
Domination 360AD
Space Race 1265AD
Max Score 2475


Especially the conquest value is much too high. Normally you get a later finish date than assumed, so the closer you get to it, the better. In this case we actually got a bonus for finish later than some team (see akots and slinger for example). The jason scoring system awards us for being closer to the ealiest expected date. This "reward" gets taken away when madbax adjusts the scores, therefore we may be highest base jason, while being lower in adjusted jason. That is not a consequence of different boni (only), see diffrence in slingers and our score for that.

I hope that is - at least in parts - understandable and hopefully not all wrong :)

No, its not double or triple anything. It is just using a rule of thimb that says playing AW is about 1 full level more difficult than standard, and the same for 5CC. Because of the particular nature of this map the bonuses are wild. In fact I spend more time defending them than enough :p

If you played AWM on a normal size map and scored it as an emperor game I believe it would be difficult to beat a straight game score even with the bonuses. If you play 5CC + AWE on a large pangea, then I think it would be incredible if you could beat a straight game score.

Unfortunately, in trying to encourage the playing of variants I chose the wrong game to introduce bonuses. I may have inadvertantly killed the patient.

The green laurel award is for the highest base Jason Score, and is supposed to reward the best played straight game.

The golden laurel award is for the highest adjusted Jason score and is supposed to reward the best played variant game.

Next month the awards will probably be for highest Jason and fastest finish and there will be no bonuses. Instead I will specify a variant, like zero research space race, or oscillating war or something.

Then we can discuss what we like best. It may take a few games to get where we need to be... but we will. Trust me :mischief:

Sry, my edit was after madbaxes post, I typed too slow...

Thanks mad-bax,

What I was going on to say was that we should consider the bonuses a lot more than we did before as they make so much difference. But if they are not going to be there, then I wont say that.

Smackster

Mad-bax is right--I can't possibly start a new game in the next month :(, and very likely not until August. But it would be good to see the rest of you keep Team No-Shevek ;) together.

I'm definitely in for it! I certainly had a good time with this team, and besides somebody has to keep the team score down!