Not sure if this is the right place for this, but I am going for my first emporer game and wanted to make a thread for it so others could follow. My objective is not to win, but to thoroughly destroy the AI on my very first emporer bid, a lofty goal I know. Anyone who is thinking about moving up to emporer or has moved up and is interested in comparing notes feel free to join in discussion. This will be a very slowly played game though as I am in a lot of PBEM. I will try to post pics occasionally and will at least update the thread after each playing session. In addition I am uploading the first turn save here so if anyone is interested in playing along feel free. But, if you do so, surely you will get ahead of me so don't spoil my fun by revealing something I do not know, just start your own thread. ;)

Those players who are already at emporer level and win routinely on this level I ask to please limit comments to criticism of my past decisions rather than advising on my future decisions. I respect other's strategies and I have learned from several sources, but if I suceed at my first attempt I don't want it to be because I polled a bunch of experts on how to play it.

I am also planning to deviate from what I have read as normal strategy for an emporer game, I may be proved wrong and get thoroughly crushed, but I'll never know if I have a good overall strategy if I don't try.

I have purposely set up this game with settings I prefer to keep me in my comfort zone for my first attempt, here are the settings:

C3C vs 1.20

Standard size 4 billion year old temperate continental world with 60% water and normal barbarian activity with a normal climate. Victory conditions are domination, conquest, space race, diplomatic, cultural. Additionally, cultural conversions are on, preserve random seed is on, AP is off, scientific leaders are off. Emporer level, I am the Ottomans, my seven opponents are all random.

Will post results of first playing session tomorrow as it is past my bedtime.

Good luck! This might get moved to the Stories & Tales thread. But it might not, too. ;)

Good luck, if you put half as much effort/detail into this commentary as you do into your PBEM negotiations then it will be a great story.

I'll help predesad, emporer is the lowest level I'll play anymore. I'd be glad to help

Yes, this really belongs in Stories and Tales. ;)

Thread moved.

Hey, cool! I kept my subscription to this thread! In the past, when a thread has been moved I've lost it.

I only played 1 emperor game before I jumped to Demi-God, since I find them almost the same. Now Deity is the next barrier

wow, I have fans already, and hello zurichuk, thanks for the compliment. This will be much more detailed and involved than my PBEM diplomacy and you have actually not experienced some of my more lengthy diplomatic binges, just ask DogBoy.

Allow me to ramble about the game setup. I like huge worlds, but hesitated to put myself in a game with 16 or even 12 civs which would mostly be way ahead of me, so I did the next best thing by going with a standard world at only 60% water, I wish there was a 40% water setting.

I chose the Ottomans because I wanted an industrious civ, my favorite trait, and I wanted a late uu, I debated between them and the French. I didi not want to get into a situation where war was forced upon me early and I had no choice but to initiate an early GA because my uu was the only real option I had for attack.

I am a warmongerer, but I have been trying to get away from this by going with more of a builder strategy, and I have a moderate builder attitude in most games. From what I have heard / read, it seems it takes a warmongering attitude to win at emporer, I am going to try to refute this claim, and I might get killed, but it's worth a shot. I have also read it takes an early GA to succeed, I have no intentions of getting an early GA which is why I took a very late middle ages uu, again, I could be wrong and get killed.

I accept criticism very well, so anyone who wishes to counter my claims or say my strategy sucks is free to do so, but I want to try my style of play for at least one game and see if there is a chance at this difficulty. I think I can win with my overall strategy, which I will outline shortly.

Enough rambling, here is a screenshot of the start:

EDIT: seem to be having trouble with pic, if I dont get it right soon i will just skip the pic for now

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ottomans_Emporer_Level_Start.jpg

Okay, anyone wishing to play the game and not wanting to have inside information should not read this post.

4000 BC - founded city by river, Istanbul, the immediate terrain was not too promising, but was primarily grassland, one with a shield, but this one was not by the river. when i settled the hut in the mountains gave me 25 gold. the terrain just outside my borders looked better, there is a cow and a luixury, incense, neither of those are by the river, also, coast is spotted just outside the first border expansion. worker moves to grassland shield to road then mine, start building warrior, research pottery at 100% science (20 turns intitial)

3350 BC - notes a little vague, but i think i have 3 warriors at that point, 2 exploring, 1 for MP, discovered pottery, research ceremonial burial at 100%, start building settler

3300 BC - contact Inca, scout near territory, fortunately border expansion seals off part of my nearby territory and there are no civs in that direction, allows me to settle in one direction at first with no immediate threat of losing lands, Inca has Bronze Working but wont trade, popped a warrior form a hut, also cow on grassland has been roaded then mined it is now inside borders

3100 BC - settler built, one point of note, the turn before settler was built my city went to 3 citizens with only 1 MP, i converted a citizen to a scientist to maintain contentment. Settler travels to the east, begin building granary,worker moves to forest to clear 10 shields for granary, then will head to hills to complete a road to hook up incense, this will allow 3 citizens with only 1 MP

2900 BC - Edrine founded, it is coastal on a hill by a river, has cow and a grassland shield by the river, starts building worker, which is unusual, but i have the popped warrior, the cow will provide some fast growth and i need two workers to fully utilize industrious trait at this point, i have a plan which will put out settler in almost as much time as if i had not built worker first, puts me down slightly in warriors, but not a concern right now, inca are friendly and have left territory a long time ago, they are jus slightly ahead in tech, discovering an advance right before i get one, but will not trade

2750 BC - discovered ceremonial burial, start researching warrior code, worker is hooking up a road between capitol and Edrine to bring incense there

2510 BC - granary built in Istanbul, most players i think would criticize my taking time out to build a granary, but i think it will pay for itself shortly, i am gambling on peaceful expansion with no threats for a few more turns and so have taken some liberties / risks now, granary causes research to be reduced to 90% becasue it costs 1 maintenance, the people offerd to expand my palace, a warrior dispersed a barbarian camp, two barbarian warriors are next to my warrior after this. the first warrior attacks, my warrior is reduced to 1 HP but wins and promoted to veteran. second barbarian attacks, i lose no HP and warrior is promoted to elite!

end of first turn session, pic attached as well as save if anyone is interested.

in between turn sessions i have thought about my elite warrior, i really would like to take him home for MP duty and save my elite warrior for war which will come in time unavoidably, but i have elected to keep exploring with him.

i am going to use mostly ICS expansion, but i will deviate as needed as I did with my second city because that was the best site. but, after i get my main cities settled and expansion is no longer possible, i will be settling temporary cities in between existing cities, these will be about 2 spaces apart for the purposes of trying to maximize laborers in my territory and allow me ot put out more units, these cities will be abandoned later when my primary cities grow to the point they need those tiles, but that is very far away, assuming i last that long.

going to start second turn session shortly, will update tomorrow probably



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ottomans_Emporer_Level_2470BC.jpg

Instead of making a valuable citizen a scientist early in the game, adjust your luxury slider as needed. Giving up one gpt to have half of your population back in the fields is a good choice.

Originally posted by nicketzsche
Instead of making a valuable citizen a scientist early in the game, adjust your luxury slider as needed. Giving up one gpt to have half of your population back in the fields is a good choice.

actually, the converion of the citizen to a scientist at this point was much more beneficial, it took one turn off research with the 3 added science, the settler was built in one turn whether that citizen worked or not, and the amount of food woul not have mattered because i am netting 3 food per turn and there is always a leftover from growth. If i had moved the slider i would have hurt science with no benefit, but thanks for your advice anyway.

Ah, sry about that :)

Looking forward to reading about the coming years :goodjob:

Originally posted by nicketzsche
Ah, sry about that :)

Looking forward to reading about the coming years :goodjob:

well, it was a good suggestion, you just had no real way of seeing the actual game circumstances which caused me to go with the scientist iinstead of moving the slider. i tend to use scientists a lot but mix it up with the slider depending on the circumstances, but i like to emphasize science over production to some extent.

I have a problem with my last turn session, i was falling asleep as i was playing and i have no idea what happened to the save, if i even saved it. i have several save folders because of PBEM, DEMO game, etc. When I loaded the game to take a screenshot it was the prior save so i will probably have to replay those turns.

i replayed my turns after not being able to locate the save, then i realized i could have used the autosave, i completely forgot about the autosave because i never load from there and always save at my stopping point. i thought about loading the autsave and going from there, but i was already a few turns ahead of where i was last time so i just kept playing. i believe i replayed almost exactly how i played the first time, some warrior exploratory moves might have been a little different but i really didn't notice anything different.

Here's the summary:

2350 - contact spain with my elite warrior in the south meeting 2 of their warriors, they are up Alphabet, Warrior Code and The Wheel on me, but I have Masonry over them, was able to trade Masonry for Warrior Code + 10 Gold. Changed research to The Wheel

2310 - Istanbul builds settler and has an established expansion queue: warrior (2 turns), warrior (2 turns), settler (4 turns) debated about where to put this settler, i want to rush settlers to the east to grab as much land as possible where my neighbors are. the small amount of land to the west is sealed off by my capitol, until map making enables someone to sail a settler over there, but hopefully i will have filled it in by then. but there is a coastal spot by the river with a cow 4 squares to the southwest, so i take that site instead of heading ot the east, the land grab war will wait a little longer.

2190 - Bursa foundedon the previously mentioned site

1950 - discovered The Wheel, started researhcing Alphabet. A horse resource is between me and the Inca. I have a settler in the spot i wanted to found a city, but wondr if i sould instead move down to the horse resource, 7 tiles, and thus 7 turns away. I decided to go after the horses.

1910 - Iznik founded

1700 - Istanbul's queue changed to spearman (4 turns) then settler (4 turns), other cities build one warrior then a settler. i have built no more granaries because i do not know if there will be sufficient time in the expansion phase to allow any benefit from an early granary, but the capitol is doing well churning out one evry 8 turns, up form the 14 turns without a granary. With a little work i could get that up to one every 6 turns, but i would have to take a temporary set back and i do not know again if there is enough time in the expansion phase to reallly benefit from this.

1600 - Uskudar founded beside horse resource, defended by 2 warriors and Istanbul's first spearman heads in that direction

1575 - Aphabet discovered, start researching mathematics. I chose math because usually the AI will go for horseback riding or writing before math and if i get it before inca or spain it will give me a trade opportunity. Trade Alphabet + 61 Gold to the Inca for Iron Working. Now the Inca and Spanish are only up Mysticism on me. Spot an iron resource in the hills by a river bwtween inca and I, decide to again move a settler form its previous destination to this spot.

1450 - Izmit founded on iron, in addition to being on a hill by a river, there is also a floodplain there. another spearman will a shortly head over there for defense

1425 - Bursa builds first curragh, Edrine would finish another one next turn. Aydin founded.

1375 - Antalya founded

of significant note would be my undiscovered opponents, due to analysis of "The Wealthiest Nations in the World" I know I am playing against the Inca, Spain, Viking, Americans, Chinese, Sumerians, and Celts.

later a list of the mostpowerful nations was brought to my attention:

1) America
2) Celts
3) Inca
4) Spanish
5) Viking
6) Sumerian
7) Me, the Ottomans
8) Chinese

I was glad to see someone lower than I.

Curently I have 26 Gold with an income of 24, most of which gos to science.

i have 8 cities and 22 units:

2 settlers, 2 workers, 2 curraghs, 2 spearman, 14 warriors.

Space is filling up, but we can fit in a few more cities in Inca / Ottoman territory.

http://www.civfanatics.net./uploads7/Ottomans1300BC.jpg

A look at Demogrphics:

someone who knows exactly what these stats mean feel free to chime in and explain. i undrstand several of them as they are self explanatary, but others i am not sure.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ottomans1300BCDemographics.jpg

Right now I have 2 major concerns, few military and only 2 workers. i am going to continue to go with 2 workers for a while longer because i am ouitexpanding the inca and spanish right now and do not want to give that up while i am on a roll. the industrious workers can improve 2 tiles per city and move on as most cities will only get to 3 citizens at most right now. military will catch up as soon as expansion phase lets off, hopefully i will not face war before that point. a recent view of the power graph does show i hav mopved ahead of the inca and spanish recently, mostlikely by fouinding on the iron resource, hope to get a couple swordsmen soon for show and tell.

on another note: i lost the gamble by researhing math first, the inca and spanish have horseback and math, i should have went for writing, no sense switching now so i will finish this research, that realy hurts trade oportunities to stay caught up, but i ave a plan.

My civ has had great progress since the last update and i am pleased with the results so far, although it is not progressing in the manner of my normal games in monarchy difficulty. i still have a grand total of one improvement in my entire civ, the granary in the capitol, but others are underway currently, mostly temples.

-1300 i noticed for some time my military was average compared to both spain & inca, then during diplomacy my advisor informed me my forces outnumbered the spanish forces, so i took a risk and renegotiated peace. Spain was willing to pay 100 gold for 20 turns of peace. Tried with the Inca also, they chipped in 40 gold. Both their attitudes improved from annoyed to cautious. Translation, they wanted peace with me so bad the would pay for it and be happy about it. If this is not a part of your normal strategy in your games, you shouold consider it, sometimes you can even use peace renegotiation to get a tech, which i was hoping to do but could not get a deal for a tech even when i added all my gold to the pot. You just have to learn when you can do it and who NOT to do it with.

-1275 connected second incense resource in Aydin good for future trading opportunities. fond the inca iron supply in mountains, they were hooking it up

-1225 Mathematics discovered, again taking a gamble the AI were not researching construction and went for that. discovered horse resource in spanish territory, not roaded yet

-1025 Sinop founded, taking long time to settle cities because of distance settlers had to travel, have 5 more settlers at this point

-950 trade with Inca, got Mysticism for 138 gold. from curragh off north coast i see a red border, trying to maneuver curragh to find a possible crossing without suicide mission

-875 did not contact red civ, but in maneuvering to find crossing did contact a viking galley. my military is stronger than theirs, they have Writing, Horseback Riding, and Polytheism over me. Renegotiated peace for 81 gold. when turn ended the vikings unloaded a spear / settler combo onto my northern coast, i had neglected this area to rush settler towards inca / spanish territory, now i had to settle that area quickly to avoid future intruders, already plan to take that city, most likely when our peace treaty expires, but well before invention when they get their uu which has amphibious attack ability

-850 Kafa built. suicide run by curragh makes contact with red civ, america, they have same techs as vikings no big surprise. curagh sinks, but i have two of them left and that one seved its purpose well. this would prove to be a big contribution shortly having these two contacts

-825 some city built but cant read my writing, looks something like Hukena?? will edit name later

-730 Salonika built, this city was founded right on an iron resource between the inca and spanish. if i manage to hold this city i will have 2 iron resources

-690 settlement of northwest begins by the viking intruder city, Mugla built, Denieli bult

-670 construction discovered, but everyone else already has it, gamble did not pay off, decided to try one more time to research something nobody had for trades, literature. renegotiate peace deals: spain gives 100 gold, inca gives 60 gold, america has no gold, but will give writing in return for 149 gold when combined with the peace deal

This is pretty much the end of the expansion phase, i still have settlers heading to destinations at this point, but i will not be trying to expand into additional territory after those found cities, although my curragh has found a nioce size island to the east and a small one south of that and i would like to claim it if possible, but in a few turns i spot the inca heading there. I will also be filling up intermediate sites between cities with other cities about 2 tiles apart for the purpose of building units only, and a barracks so those will be veteran units. Will comment more on this shortly.

I need improvements bad and start builds, workers clear forests to help, mostly temples so i can get some culture, i will add workers then pop rush ( a no-no in some PBEM and GOTM games, but this is not a PBEM or GOTM so i do so with no hesitation) by using a temple for the culture when i pop rush the temple cancels out the unhappiness caused by the pop rush so i choose them instead of libraries, although my core less corrupt cities will build libraries, not pop rushed, soon.

Right now i am seriously behind in tech for it to be this early in the game: Inca: Map Making, Horseback Riding; Spain: Horseback Riding; America & Viking: Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making, Horseback Riding, Polytheism. I am convinced all 5 of the other civs are on the land mass with America / Viking. i have almost thoroughly explored my continent with curragh / warriors and it is occupied by just myself the inca and spain. i feel all 5 of the other civs share this other continent and via trades is how they are so far ahead of the three of us. AFAIK, neither Inca or Spain has contact with them.

I would like to comment that there were 2 city site disputes between myself and the inca. I lost one when they foolishly settled right on top of a wheat, i was on the spot i wanted to settle and left them no place to go but on the wheat so they founded. The other one i won by keeping them real close to their border and my settler "out of sight" until on the spot to found. even though i am convinced the AI knows where units are, there does seem to be a different reaction when they are in visibility of them. In cases where you have a settler near one of their settlers, if they "see" the settler it seems like they will found almost immediately wherever they are to beat you to it.

More to tell, but no time to tell it, I am in the middle of my first war, and it was a surprise who declared it and the circumstances. I also managed to finally make some serious trades and really helped my position in tech.

Okay, now for when the gaem begins to get interesting. First of all, i have out expanded both AI on my continent, there is little room left for cities on the continent and i am up about 20 to 12 on the inca, not sure about spain. since this is near the end of expansion i was expecting someone to declare war on me soon. which was part of the reason i tried, and was successful, to renegotiate peace in 670.

-650 spain declares war on me. this was almost funny. they had paid me 100 gold just right before declaring war, not only do they get a rep hit, but they lost 100 gold for nothing. that's the AI for you. furthermore, i had an unescorted settler near one of their warriors, i had renegotiated peace before moving the settler last turn. then i moved the settler next to that warrior, i hjad units in the area, just could not get any stacked with the settler that turn. spain's warrior moved away from my settler then the next movement one of their warriors attacked one of my warriors to start war, makes no sense whatsoever, but i felt realy lucky and 100 gold richer so what do i care.

my primary concern is i do not want to get into a war with both inca and spain, so i test the waters with inca to see how they are feeling about the ottomans. they are polite, but an unusual thing has happened. for awhile now i have been able to buy horseback riding for 137 gold and 2 gpt. i did not buy it because i was hoping the cost would go down and i did not need it. i figured if i went to war and wanted it i could then always buy it, but now the inca wont sell it. in fact, no civ will sell me anything for gpt, it's like i took a rep hit, or maybe they are thinking of going to war against me also.

i built embassy with inca for 35 gold. they dont want alliance against spain, but would agree to ROP, which i dont want yet. this makes me think i did not take a rep hit if they will accept an ROP and i am just not sure why i can no longer buy tech with gpt.

also founded 3 cities this turn, Bolu, Urfa, Bingol

i did make a deal with inca to trade luxuries, incense for dyes, plus i ahd to chip in 64 gold. i did not need the dyes yet, but this was more of a political move anyway.

the subsequent war was pretty boring, a bunch of spanish warriors fall to ottoman warirors / spearman. i take no offensive stand whatsoever, content to play defense and buoild swordsman to take those 2 cities from viking. i know i must end this war soon though, the longer it lasts the more risks it has.

-510 found Units1, this city is only 2 spaces from capitol and is one of several units only cities which will be built in between other cities. these cities will be abandoned later when i need the tiles they claim. the establishment of these cities will allow me to bu untis constantly while improving my cities as needed. plan to keep small city sizes for these.

have tried to make peace with spain, but they still wont accept my envoy, so i take other action by negotiating an alliance with the inca

about the only thing i can give the inca to get this allianmce is my one and only horse resource. but i dont need that resource now anyway. i cant buy horseback, and i am not going to build any chariots. so i wondered what more i could get included in this deal. they go for horseback riding, so they will give me the tech if i give them the resources thus making the tech useless for 20 turns. they will also throw in 23 gold.

Alliance formed with Inca against Spain, i give Inca horses, they give horseback riding and 23 gold. this will actually keep me out of the war, the inca can do most of the fighting, altough i will show up occassionsally, and keeps me out of the 2 on 1 situation spain was now in, my only hope was that spain would not fall to the inca and would not give up too many cities.

-490 Spain begs for peace, but i refuse given i just signed the alliance with inca

-450 Literature discovered and finally i have trading opportunites as nobody i knowq has it.

trades in this order:

Vikings: Code of Laws + 65 gold for Literature

Inca: Polytheism + Map Making + 165 gold for Literature and Code of Laws

America: Philosophy for Literature + 20 gold

With that, the Vikings are up currency and monarchy on me, America is up just monarchy and Inca are down philosophy on me. I decide to research currency as it is the last required tech for the ancient agfe and i am scientific which meanbs when i get curency i will also get a free tech, one of feudalism, monotheism, or engineering.

I plan to end the war with Spain as soon as alliance expires, might try to take a city or two but mstly play defense and attack units on their way to my cities.

I plan to take those 2 cities on my continent from the vikings very soon.

From that point I am going to attempt to be a builder and a trader.

pics attached below, i included 4 pics so all of my teritory could be seen, i think.

these pics are from 670 BC
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ottomans670a.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ottomans670b.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ottomans670c.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ottomans670d.jpg

Keep it up dude :king:

I hope your war goes alright, and do you have a plan for catching up to the AI in tech? It's terrible when the AI gets a new government before you in the Ancient Age, they won't trade it for anything in my experience, and it will probably take you a long time to research it yourself.

I have been able to get trades for lump sum in the ancient age on emporer, You also have the possibility of putting an embassy somewhere where they are more advanced then you and then steal a tech

do you have a plan for catching up to the AI in tech

yes, i have a plan to catch up, though i am feeling very comfortable where i am sitting right now. i am not quite ready for monarchy anyway, want a couple size 2 towns and need to kick the vikings off my continent and get thigns a little more secure before enduring the anarchy.

-when i discover currency, (i thought about trying to buy it instead of researhcing it) i will get a free tech, hopefully nobody else i know will have this tech and i will trade it for monarchy plus some gold, hopefully, but i know monarchy will come with a high price.

-i am planning libraries very soon in my core cities

-i am going to build some galleys soon since i now have map making and then i can reach the other continent safely and get more contacts for more trade opportunities

-although right now i am not able to trade across sea, eventually i will and i have 2 iron resources, plus i think there is a second horse resource on that island i would like to claim. i have used resources on monarchy level to trade and it worked out well, mainly because the civ i trade iron to cannot afford to attack me because then it wont have iron. so i will probably try this again.

-one of my best areas of the game, i feel, has been my ability to work trades and make very interesting deals, even some risky deals, but a civ with no risks is a civ doomed to failure, you cannot afford to play conservatively all the time, IMHO

-if nothing else, sabo's suggestion to steal tech is always an option, right now a very low option, but it is an option

to all of my fans, or those waiting to see me fall flat on my face, my game is going nowhere right now because for some reason i am unable to pop rush temples, i have 4 citizens in one city, need only 40 shields and it wont let me pop rush. when i figure out what is going on i will continue, but i cant move on with my current strategy without being able to pop rush those temples in those high corruption cities.

An amazing settler rush for sure.

I only see 1 viking city, though.

the second viking city was not really established during my last turn of play, i just saw a galley drop off a settler / spear, but i think this pic is from an earlier turn also.

pop rushing of temples is no longer a problem, don't know what happened, have played through 210 BC and will play more later then post update either tonight or tomorrow.

A lot had happened in my game and I am up to 10 AD:

-410 built first swordsman unit, rushed to battle front, more would come soon

-350 BUrsa builds library, units2 founded, Konya adds workler & rushes temple

-330 swordsman being arriving at Salonika, the war front. the Cetls built the Temple of Artemis, America builds Great Library. other wonders built in past are: 975 Sumerians built Pyramids, Vikings built Colossus; 1225 Celts built Oracle

-310 Izmit rushes temple

-290 Uskador adds worker and rushes temple, ministack of 3 swords, 2 spears, and 2 warriors, including my elite warrior leaves Salonika for Spanish invasion, vikings attempt to send out settler / spear combo from Aarhus, i line the border with spears, warriors. noted that my popped warrior from long ago defeated a horseman while fortified in mountains and is promoted to regular

-270 won several battles and got promotions, ministack advances to mountains outside Pamplona

-250 vikings build great lighthouse, Kafa rushes temple, Trade with Inca, they give Dyes + 55 gold, we give Incense + Philosophy, we got ripped off, but i need continued Inca trade relationship to discourage war and i need the luxuries.

-210 experience first casualty of the war since opening attacks by spain, former popped warrior was killed by an attacking horse, the nation grieves but celebrates the faithful and valuable service he rendered to our nation, oh well, time to move on. vikings build Great Wall, Celts build Hanging Gardens. Disocver currency, get engineering for free, start researching feudalism at 80% for 24 turns. Most of the time i am running about a -1 deficit, i can afford this through trades and eliminating barb camps, i have knocked off a few in unsettled area where spain and i border. In hindsight, i should have researched monotheism because i should have realized vikings would probably go for feudalism for invention and berserks.

Trade with Vikings, they give Monarchy for engineering and 120 gold, Americans already had engineering. established American embassy for 43 gold, at that time they were unwilling to ally against vikings. noted that vikings do not yet have feudalism. the vikings sent settler / spear into my territory, i knew where they were going but it was a long trip, so i permitted them to get 2-3 tiles away form their border then ordered them to remove forces or decalre war, they removed units. Winning lots of battles at this point in Spanish Expansion War as I call it. Holding ground outside Pamplona on mountains.

-190 Sumerians build Statue of Zeus

-170 Pamplona invasion, finally i get the right amount of units fully healed and on the mountain with a turn left to attack. this stack has grown some and has successfully held off many attacks. horses have attacked frequently, then withdrew and then mopped up by other nearby units, i call these units the stack support. After 4 swordsman invasions i defeated 2 spears and 2 horses, Pamplona was destroyed (only had 1 citizen) and 2 workers were captured, they were Inca workers, oh well, what do i care they are mine now. 11 gold was also looted.

Aydin rushes temple. Settler / Spear combo loaded on viking galley (i assume and later proved right) they look to be headed for large island where Inca already have a city. I plan an ambush for them which will start war in 2 turns, have 2 galleys ready.

-150 on attempts to advance into Spanish territory to invade a second city I lost 2 units, this is the first i have lost since the popped warrior, terrain is not in my favor and spanish attackers are heavy in this area.

-130 got a good chance to use elite warrior, who is next to a 1 hp horseman fortified in mountains after the horse tried to attack Salonika and retreated. Warrior kills horse, but no military leader.
Trade Inca, they give gems + 16 gold + 20 turn peace renewal for currency. Again, i need the lux, and i need Inca to look favorably on me.

Spanish Swordsman on hill killing me, lone unit is hampering further invasion plans. Viking ambush of galley is thwarted, since they have Lighthouse they took off across big sea expanse instead of staying near coast and I could not give chase. I have a settler / warrior loaded on one galley and head to small island to claim a third iron resource that is located there. Vikings will surely beat me to large island.

-110 Spain pays 295 gold (entire treasury) for peace, would not give gpt unfortunately (note, the military alliance had expired and i cancelled it to preserve reputation) i could have got a city, but given the spanish dishonesty and the high corruption it would have had, i figured they just would have attacked me in their territory before i ever got units there for defense. decided 295 gold was better because of the absolute coorupt state the city would have been in and the locaiton of the city, eventually spain would be able to surround it by culture borders before i could get a settler there to settle where pamplona was anyway. Spain is very far behind in tech (philosophy, code of laws, currency, literature, monarchy, engineering) Inca is behind me by engineering, vikings / americans both have republic on me.

built embassy in spain for 42 gold, embassy in scandinavia for 54 gold

start moving units from war to MP duty

-90 noted spain and incas still at war, hope they knock each other out. Riza adds worker and rushes temple. send 4 swords and 3 spear into viking territory. they issue get out or declare war ultimatum. i know vikings have no iron or horses so reenforcements, if any will not be powerful, they have feudalism now, but no iron to build the pikes or med inf. I tell them no, we are at war.

-70 Aarhus falls easily having only 2 spears present, city is captured, both citizens resist. decided against paying Americans 297 gold to ally against them, i hope this war does not last long anyway.

-10 BC Vikings found Molden on large island with Incas next to horses. 1 resistor quelled in Aarhus, but that citizen is unhappy over the war so it become a scientist, given that it would take a lux rate of 60% to make that citizen content.

-10 AD Invade other Viking city with 3 swords killing 2 spears and an archer. they still have an archer left, i have 3 spears with movement left, i gamble that this is the last unit in the city and i am correct as the archer falls and i capture Odense, it's only citizen resists. Immediately negotiate peace with the Vikings. They pay 171 gold + 11 gpt, very profitable war unless they are planning a counter invasion soon. With the extra 11 gpt i move science slider to 100% feudalism in 7 turns with a -1 gpt deficit. Also, the laborer in Aarhus that is ont resisting can now be used, with the war over the unhappiness is gone.

Right now I am looking at a revolution soon. I have 3 more temples to pop rush first and i would like to get a couple of my river cities up to at least 7 citizens for the extra unit support. unit support costs will kill me right now in monarchy, but during those likely 7 turns of anarchy the cities will have time to grow.

I neglected to note some of my other builds. I also do not have a pic this time. Will post an update about improvements and military when i get a chance. I know I have a few libraries now and most cities have tmples or are building them. I cleared forests in several cities before pop rushing because most of those cities are only giving me 1 shield with 4 or 5 corrupted.

right now i can still support a size 6 city with no luxury rate unless that city has pop rush unhappiness. 1 citizen born content, 2 from mp, and 3 from luxuries. if i build markets in the core cities this will improve to 7 citizens, but i am heavily dependent upon the inca for their luxuries, it might be time after revolution to look at a real war. I was very successful in the Spanish Expansion War, although at the end i got greedy and it foolishly cost me a few units. And of course the Viking Intrusion war was minimal, though very profitable. I am hoping to build a harbor soon and trade my extra iron to the vikings. thye have lighthouse so can trade across sea. if i give them iron then they will forgive me and will realize a dependance on me. otherwise i can expect a galley / berserker invasion. this would be lethal especially with 5 movement galleys courtesy of the seafaring trait and the lighthouse.

i dont remeber exactly which ones, but i believe several civs have got GA from their wonders, including the vikings. this is good, get those GA over while they are small.

I am right with everyone on tech, galleys are circling american / viking continent to gt more contacts and improve trade. i would like to stay on path to military tradition and trade for the peaceful techs so i can build my uu shortly, but i am certain another war will occur long before this is possible.

just played a couple more turns and wanted to do a quick update on production and income:

temples: 10, 4 in producion, 1 of htose planned to be pop rushed
libraries: 8, 2 in production
granaries: 2, 3 in production
harbor: 1 in production
barracks are conspicously absent

units:
warrior: 25
spear: 19
swords: 7
galleys: 3
curraghs: 2
workers: 21
total 77, average to spain, inca, vikings, strong to america

cities: 24
income 138 (11 gpt from vikings)
corruption: 56
maint: 19
science 80%, feudalism in 2 turns, breaking even
treasury about 600 gold

almost ready to switch to monarchy

my apoologies ot anyone who was following this game, my health forced me to completely shelve civ for a while, which included this game, a DEMO, and about 13 PBEMs. then my idiot firend who was helping out around the house managed to infect my system with a virus ... to make a long story short i don't have the save anymore and i do not want to start from the much earlier save i uploaded so the game is history, my biud for an emporer will resume at some other point but i doubt i will post a thread, sorry.