I feel that there are some improvements that can be made to the air transportation portion of the game. Perhaps we should introduce transport planes in addition to the cargo helicopters we already have in the game. These transport planes would be able to transport heavy equipment (tanks, mech infantry) in addition to foot units. They should be able to transport more foot units at a time than heavy units (say 3 foot units or 1 heavy unit). I've already included the air transport in my civ3 games, but the inability to differentiate between heavy and foot units (no flags to distinguish tehm) has somewhat limited their effectiveness.

I realize that the role that I'm suggesting for air transports is already fulfilled by airports, but air transports could be used to transport units to cities that currently don't have an airport (newly captured cities, for example). Therefore, the air transports can be thought of as complementing the logistical ability conferred by airports.

By saying this, I don't mean that we get rid of airports. Rather, I believe airports are an integral part of the transportation scheme in the game. I'm merely suggesting that we have air transports available as a unit. Failing that, an enhanced editor, with separate flags for "heavy" and foot units, and the ability to differentiate between the amounts of each that any transport could carry would be sufficient. One way to accomplish this would be to allocate "spaces" on a transport. A heavy unit could take up 2 spaces whereas a foot unit would take up only one. Therefore, a transport with 4 spaces could carry 2 foot units and a heavy unit (or any other combination). Correspondingly, air transports could be able to airdrop more units than helicopters.

Helicopters, however, should be able to transport only foot units, and a smaller number (say 1 or 2). Also, helicopters could be more versatile in that they need not be based in a city or airbase - they should be able to take off from any part of the map, or even from carriers. Their range should also be shorter than that of air transports.

We also need to have a unit that would be able to exfiltrate units a few squares inside enemy territory. I've had guerillas or spec ops units that I've dropped 5 or 6 squares into enemy territory using choppers have to walk back on several occasions. I propose giving choppers the ability to accomplish these exfiltrations.

Finally, although this may be a bit off topic, we should also have the ability to have an air unit loiter over an area for an entire turn.
This unit should bomb any units that venture onto a selected square. This would be something like what the AC 130 gunship does. A player would use such a unit to provide fire support during infiltrations/exfiltrations.

I feel that the limited transport capability was one of Civ3's few weaknesses and the aforementioned improvements would be a welcome addition to any sequel.

Agreed on the idea of fire support.

Why not have "Land Superiority" (Attack Helicopters) and "Sea Superiority" (Attack planes) in addition to "air superiority"?

On airplanes, I think transport planes aren't really essential - we already have the airports fulfilling the same role after all. Perhaps some plane to represent the C-130 or other such planes able to land on rough conditions which would be able to transport units from and to cities without airports.

Originally posted by Oda Nobunaga
Agreed on the idea of fire support.

Why not have "Land Superiority" (Attack Helicopters) and "Sea Superiority" (Attack planes) in addition to "air superiority"?

On airplanes, I think transport planes aren't really essential - we already have the airports fulfilling the same role after all. Perhaps some plane to represent the C-130 or other such planes able to land on rough conditions which would be able to transport units from and to cities without airports.

Well, a C130 has to land on a runway...so unless you are dropping airborne troops, I don't see how not having an airport makes sense to use a transport plane.

I do want to see attack helos, as well as helicoptor aircraft carriers.

What about airdropped artillery? Airborne troops drop small howizers for fire support. Yes...we need a howizter unit that can be airdropped. :)

Yeah, but C-130 can use dirt runways (or at least cheaply made ones, not perfectly sure). It doesn't need full-fledged airports, just an airbase suffice. And I'll remind you that bombers (and fighters) can operate from any city, airport or not, so I see that as justification enough for the C-130 landing in any city version.

Yep Transport plaes would be great of couse for them to be viable railroads would have to be toned down. In Civ2 you could go anwhere with them in a single turn. 1/6th would be better as it would be twice as effective as a road.

Imagine a transport plane sending units 12 spaces to the front lines? of couse ith a df value of 1 any fighter ect could wipe them out.

Great ideas, Enigma2010! Helicopters must in!

We should make choppers and paratroopers take off from carrier, that will be great.

I definitely support the gunship idea, that would be awesome! And chopper evacuation is a must.

Originally posted by ronok
I definitely support the gunship idea, that would be awesome! And chopper evacuation is a must.

Oh yeah!!! :goodjob:

I would support the transport planes for two reasons. 1. Foot units should be easier to transport than track and horse units (and settlers due to the sheer numbers required for a settler). 2. The range of air transport should be limited. As it stands now, one of the easiest ways to get units very close to the battle is through a very unrealistic airtransport system. IIRC some of the civ games at least allowed interception of these units. That, at least, should be reintroduced.

I suppose this might be an idea for a separate forum but I couldn't find anything related to it... Instead of having air defenses relying solely on air patrols and SAMs over and in your cities, has anyone brought up the idea of mobile anti-aircraft units? When you're attacking a modern nation, it's a pain to have bombers and fighters harrassing your assault columns all the way to their objectives. I think including mobile SAM lanchers would be a good idea. You could even have additions to the tech tree to go along with it, like having only flak guns or something earlier on, and then mobile SAMs when you get computers.

Flak battery and Mobile SAM units are already in C3C

my mistake... i haven't gotten around to C3C yet, but it's next in line for me

gives me something to look foreward to!

It would be helpful to be able to lift Settlers and Workers as well as the other units mentioned.

Actually, workers, I think, can now be airlifted. I believe settlers (due to sheer numbers) should not be able to be airlifted.

One of the other advantages to requiring airlifting planes is that the range of the lift would be dependant on the range of the unit. As the Conquest WWII Pacific scenario now stands, Long Range Bombers can not go all the way from the West Coast of the USA to the Phillipines, but the Americans can airlift a unit from San Diego (furthest city on east edge of map, I think) all the way to any of the Commonwealth cities on the western edge (assuming, of course that the city gets controlled by the Americans).

How the hell do the planes get that far when they can't even carry a payload of bombs that far?

On airplanes, I think transport planes aren't really essential - we already have the airports fulfilling the same role after all. Perhaps some plane to represent the C-130 or other such planes able to land on rough conditions which would be able to transport units from and to cities without airports.

(Please tell me if I am on deep water now but...)
The problem with the airports today is that you can surround a enemy city and still not halt the airlifting in of reinforcements. If you would loose the airlift capability of todays airport and be forced to fly in heavy transports you would get a chance to shoot down the reinforcing transportplanes...

I think airports are too powerful. At the moment any airport can receive as many units as you care to airlift into them. I think you should only be able to have as many units coming in to a city as the size of the city, which would represent bigger cities have a larger airport/transport infrastructure. Also airlifting units to cities that have resistors in should have a chance of being shot down.
The other thing I would like to see is enemy fighters in range interfering with airlifts like they did in civ 2.

Well, a C130 has to land on a runway...so unless you are dropping airborne troops, I don't see how not having an airport makes sense to use a transport plane.


Actually, C-130s can land on short inimproved landing strips (they even had one to land on a soccer field). Also, The Eisenhower Interstate System in the US requires that 1 in every 5 miles must be straight, "these sectiond can be used as runways in case of emergency".


By the way, I think Attack Helicopters are a great idea. Maybe have calvery upgrade to Air Calvery.

i agree. helicopters would be a cool improvment to civ

I love this idea great job thats all

I think we need a wider variety of units in all. Especially in the modern ages. The only place there is REAL variety is in Naval units...

I think the airdrop function of transport helicopters can be done by having an air cavalry unit, a kind of super-paratrooper than can troop in or out of a city, allowing quick deep strikes. Most transport helos do have a fixed infantry unit assigned anyway.

As for the interstate having straight lines allowing heavy transport aircraft landings, thats only going to apply to civs that specifically choose to build straight roads. Ancient china deliberately built curved roads. Can you name any civ that builds this kind of road that does not also have airports everywhere anyway? I dont think theres a case for making a specific transport air unit that doesnt need an airport.

I like the ideas for improvement of the air combat/units system.

I do see the usefullness of an air transport unit (C-130) and would like to see it included.

Aerial Patrol- I would definitely like to loiter ability stuck in. One person suggested a diffrentiation between land and sea units. I see no need for this. One unit to cover surrounding land( and water) squares, and one to patrol against air units. Air units can intercept: Bombers, fighters, transports (both C-130s and Airport traffic)

Definitately give carriers the ability to carry both chopters and paratroopers. This would improve naval assualt and remote attacks.

Helicopters must be able to exfiltrate units as well as infiltrate them.

I'm lking this thread so far. :goodjob:
To add to all this, if an air transposrt is shot down there should be a fixed chance that the contents of the transpost would survive. (Think "Black Hawk Down") That would add even more depth, as you could salvage a few damages units from a crash site and try to slip them out of enemy territory before they are found...

:nya: China Command, this is Spearman one, do you read?
:scan: We hear you Spearman one, what is your situation?
:nya: Our aircraft is down, we have five dead and more wounded.
:scan: Copy that rescue team is en route, ETA 3 turns over.
:eek: Sarge, they're coming at us!!!
:ar15: DIE YOU *!@$ JAP SCUM!!!!!
:eek: It's no use, they're everywhere!
:ar15: Where is that #$@& transport!?
:ninja: IEEEEE!!!!
*SPLATTER*

Slightly related:

Let paratroopers and helicopter airdrops be able to land on squares with radar towers. I lost 3 units after I thought i cleared the square.

Combat helicopters are a must for Civ4, but I do not see any need for transport aircraft.

For more on this topic check out this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97615) thread.

I think we need a wider variety of units in all. Especially in the modern ages. The only place there is REAL variety is in Naval units...
I think more naval units should be able to upgrade. Currently Just the Cruiser and "unit transports" can upgrade.

I like the idea of air transports, but wouldn't that make Airports useless? I can't tell what Veteran status does for Air units, and said city is likely already connected to the network.

@ Yuri- Let's hope for the Chinese people's sake that said Japanese troops are using Tanks in the assault.

Adding manual air transports is plain silly. What next, reintroduce caravans?

Re Read the posts about manual air transports before you trash the idea!

The idea actually make a lot of sense when you think about it.

In Civ III, your ability to transport troops into newly captured cities is quite limited. The only way to do it through airports or helicopters. Usually, the airport does not make it my experience. Therefore, you only have the ability to fly in units via helicopters. Transports would give you the ability, on a really limited basis, to reinforce these far off cities.

In Civ III, your ability to transport troops into newly captured cities is quite limited. The only way to do it through airports or helicopters. Usually, the airport does not make it my experience. Therefore, you only have the ability to fly in units via helicopters. Transports would give you the ability, on a really limited basis, to reinforce these far off cities.

You should also reread some of the criticism given towards the idea. If you don't have an airport in the newly conquered city, how are you supposed to get a heavy cargo plane to land there? And once you build the airfield you get the airlift function...

Tactical troop transport helicopters are one thing, but I see absolutely no reason to manualize strategical redeployments. They would only add player workload without increasing playability one bit.

Remember these are the same cities that can hold bombers and fighters. As long as this ability remains, it makes sense for cargo planes to land there as well. It does add playability- the ability to land heavy troops in a new city that currently does not have an airport. It would increase mobility in the game, adding playability. To clarify, I am not for the removal of airports, this idea would merely supplement them.

I have altered the specs on my coppers to be as much like a gunship as possible. They all so transport. I wish they were like a hewey but I suppose it's ok for now. But it is a piece that is a must in the game. They are an important war piece as the eras climb. It's cool to see them function either as a gunship, a rocket ship, or dropping eight foot soldiers behind enemy lines. Try it, you'll like it. :goodjob: