This is a icon for Socialism (the classical symbol of Internationale). Use it for a new tech, necessary for new govt: socialdemocracy.

Prev:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/socialism.jpg


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Very pretty. :)

What would the stats of such a Government be I wonder?

Democracy with a lower worker rate, higher tax rate, and higher troop cost? Maybe higher scientific rating? Higher hapiness?

:confused:

The icon is really nice. :)

Woa- very good looking: More of that kind please :)

@ Sword_Of_Geddon: take some ideas from DyP

@Winter: I think that it is perfect for Spartacus league for WWI, not?

It should be more like Communism than Democracy I think?

Originally posted by microbe
It should be more like Communism than Democracy I think?

Actually Socialdemocracy is the type of government used by European country: national healtcare, welfare and similar... and I haven't never see some communist extrem ideal...

According to the works of Engels and Marx, there has been no true Communist countries. A true Communist country has no classes and no government. The USSR, China, Vietnam, and Cuba are really Socialist countries. This government is Social Democracy, which is basically a friendly Democracy with Socialist influences.

Communism was the goal of Socialistic (not Socialist Democratic) countries thus why they are called Communists and why the government in Civ3 is called Communism.

I had Social Democracy in my game but I had used other icon. Now that there is the perfect (I couldn't have asked for better) icons, the government is now 100% complete. Thanks!

:goodjob:

Originally posted by Mobilize
According to the works of Engels and Marx, there has been no true Communist countries. A true Communist country has no classes and no government. The USSR, China, Vietnam, and Cuba are really Socialist countries. This government is Social Democracy, which is basically a friendly Democracy with Socialist influences.

Communism was the goal of Socialistic (not Socialist Democratic) countries thus why they are called Communists and why the government in Civ3 is called Communism.

I had Social Democracy in my game but I had used other icon. Now that there is the perfect (I couldn't have asked for better) icons, the government is now 100% complete. Thanks!

:goodjob:

I think that better definition is Real Socialism, BTW. ("Socialism in a country, not in the world" is the Stalin motto)

So basically the Government takes care of you eh? So higher happiness, but lower economic growth(Tightly controled business)

The only problem is....Where to put it on the tech-tree?

That makes sense but... isn't that already a lot like Republic? I mean, less economic growth but people have slightly less say in what goes on. (Less war-weariness than Democracy)

I always just sort of figured that Republic was supposed to be a semi-socialist type of government.

Also that picture is really good but do you really wan tthe symbol of your country to be a rose? ;)

that is a nice icon. if only i were computer savvy, id be adding that to my game along with a socialist gov, but unfortunately, i dont know how to

Originally posted by The Commander
That makes sense but... isn't that already a lot like Republic? I mean, less economic growth but people have slightly less say in what goes on. (Less war-weariness than Democracy)

Less war weariness? Yeah, the socalist democracies of Europe are such war mongers. I don't think so.

You can look up the true definitions of all these governments quite easily, you're already connected to the internet.

Wikipedia states:

In general, contemporary Social Democrats support:

* Private enterprise, but strongly regulated to protect the interests of workers, consumers and small enterprise (in stark contrast to libertarian and some green approaches, e.g. Natural Capitalism which minimizes regulation by controlling commodity prices more directly).
* An extensive system of social security network (see welfare state), notably to counteract effects of poverty and to insure the citizens against loss of income following illness and unemployment.
* Ensuring good education, health care, child care, et cetera for all citizens through government fundings.
* Higher taxes (necessary to pay for the former), especially for higher income groups.
* Extensive social laws (minimum wages, working circumstances, protection against firing).
* Environmental protection laws (like environmental laws specifically opposing monoculture) (although not to the extent of Greens).
* Anti-xenophobic and non-fundamentalist legislations (pro-choice, anti-racist, anti-homophobic) (although not to the extent of anarchists).
* A foreign policy supporting multilateralism and international institutions such as the United Nations.

They also state that criticism of a social democracy includes:
* individual rights suffer
* high taxes and budget deficits hurt the economy

Te benefits of social democracy should really be [if posssible]:

Deasreased city size unhappyness

Incresed Life Expectancy (cheaper hospitals / NHS small wonder-pays for hospitals, aquaducts)

Increased Literacy (cheaper libraries / something similar to NHS for science buildings)

war weariness as democracy - may have modifiers for less if ally, less against facist

Increased cost to rush build - 5 gold per sheild rather than 4 - due to higher worker wages

lower corruption than demo [due to increased personal wealth among the poor]

3 commerce limit per tile - high tax rate on the rich

becomes available with new tech Unionisation - requires Combustion

Unionisation - factories cost 2 maintanence rarther than 3

This is an ideal situation but may make the game unbalanced-not sure what overall effect on treasury will be

To see you people bickering over what socialism and social democracy is and isn't. I'll give you some real definitions, being that I am a socialist myself and it is my particular ideology.


Socialism:

-The early stage of communism. It is the transitory period that you go through in order to get to communism. Anarchism (the actual form of anarchism, not the warped "chaos" meaning) is very similar to communism, except they don't have the transition, and their goal is to instantly get to a communistic society.

-Nearly all socialists and historians today acknowledge that the USSR from around 1921-1991 was not socialist at all. That's only about 3 years of socialism, under Lenin. If you want more proof, then just PM me. The USSR did not follow ANY socialist ideology whatsoever.

-China hasn't been socialist since the 70's, in which Deng Xiaoping took control and reformed China.

-The biggest mistake un-informed people make when talking about this subject is when they talk about socialism as if it is something entirely seperated from communism. It's not seperate at all. Socialism is really just "early communism". If somebody is a socialist, they are also a communist. There is nothing wrong with this, just there are a lot of idiots who believe the propaganda put out by the US government.

Now, about Social Democracy. Social Democracy is the same as socialism, except it is a different method for reaching Communism:

-Social Democrats aim to reach Communism through legislation; They intend to get to communism through reforming the current capitalist system.

-The major factor seperating socialists/communists from social democrats is that socialists/communists intend to start the road to communism through revolution. Social Democrats do not aim to achieve this. They intend to start the path to communism through being elected and making reforms.

-Modern scandinavian governments are NOT social democratic as some may have you believe. Their agenda is not that of a socialist/communist one. They do not intend to publicise industry or the means of production, or change the governmental structure so the people have more control. This is what seperates modern scandinavian governments from social democratic ones.


They also state that criticism of a social democracy includes:
* individual rights suffer
* high taxes and budget deficits hurt the economy

1. None of us state that individual rights suffer, as people gain more, not less.

2. Economy is not something that concerns us as much as other factors.

Originally posted by Commissar_Yari
To see you people bickering over what socialism and social democracy is and isn't. I'll give you some real definitions, being that I am a socialist myself and it is my particular ideology...


Finally someone who known history and politics theories without propaganda ideas... :goodjob:

Originally posted by Rufus T.Firefly
Finally someone who known history and politics theories without propaganda ideas... :goodjob:

Being a social studies (including history and government) teacher I am well aware of propaganda's role in history. Of course, one man's bible is another's kindling.

What is history but a discussion of opposing viewpoints? This forum is no exception. I didn't see anything as bickering, but now I do see some babbling. (mine included! :lol: )

There is such a thing as left wing democracy it's called a Demarcy.A demarcy has a mixture of democracy,anarchy,and communist beliefs.

Oh I think this turned out pretty nice Rufus. Greetings! ;)

I have set up a form of Government that is a Social Democracy. Stats that I find are fairly useful are :

Social Democracy
Communal Corruption
Low War Protests (I forget the name)
Hurry Method : Purchase
Extra Unit Cost : 2
Free Units :
0
Town 2
City 4
Metro 5

Or, you could set War Weariness to Nil, as of course, all wars the Government Fights are Just!

I complement this with a 'Monument' wonder, which reminds all citizens of thier loyalty to the state and the countless sacrifices the people have made to attain this form of Government (Not to mention building the damn monument!!). It increases production by 100% and generates a 'Volunteer Worker' every 5 turns that works for free (No Upkeep costs) 150% worker rate. Of course, the monument is available only with this form of Government and COSTS a lot.

War weariness ahould be extremely high for Social Democratic nations, so that they will be, as in reality, only ver rarely, if ever, at war.

@blix: How is anarchy left wing? It seems to be entirely inemical to Socialism.

1. None of us state that individual rights suffer, as people gain more, not less.

2. Economy is not something that concerns us as much as other factors.

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1. Thats completly true, as sweden has one of the worlds highest min wages and many laws and treatments against the mis-use of workers. This is mainly regulated in so called Collective-treaties or Kollektivavtal in swedish formed by BOTH the Industry/Commerse and the differend Unions. There are a separate treaty for every form of work eaven for academics like lawers and doctors. In these treaties there are things like the use of workers strikes and working times.

2. High taxes are better than low for the common people as all the things like healthcare and scools are funded from it. This ensures the ALL the people in Sweden has the same rights to education and healthcare.

BTW if you think that high taxes auto lead to bad profitmaking look in some of the worlds largest financial magazines and Sweden are a very high ranked country for companies (eaven better than the USA) and the trademark Sweden is the 3rd strongest in the world, only GB and Australia were better i think.