What do you think?
Who are the gratest leaders of all time?
Post here the names of one or more great leaders.

Lincoln
Washington
Churchill

No no post here some different
Post here the Greatest strategic Leaders like Napoleaon

Wellington, Nimtz, Patton, Caesar, William the Conquerer, Richard the Lionheart, Saladin, Hideyoshi, Washington, and a lot more...

Augustus (Ocatavian) Caesar cetainlly ranks upthere,almost single hadnedley chanign the baseis of the Roman state- he was a nomina military commander, but more regocnizabe as the commnder fo others to soldify Romes holdings, and expands Romes power abroad

prince eugene of savoy--frenchmen denied a commision by king louis, he fought for austria. captured most of hungary from turkey in the late 1690's. co-commanded with the duke of marlborough at his great victories of blenheim,oudenarde & malplaquet. captured belgarde from the turks later secureing hungary for austria.

Originally posted by pawpaw
prince eugene of savoy--frenchmen denied a commision by king louis, he fought for austria. captured most of hungary from turkey in the late 1690's. co-commanded with the duke of marlborough at his great victories of blenheim,oudenarde & malplaquet. captured belgarde from the turks later secureing hungary for austria. And just to continue the fantastic story of Eugène de Savoie, he worked for Maria Theresa of Austria. He contributed a lot to the status of Superpower Austria took during the 18th Century. the Habsburgs actually knew how to thank him since they've offered to him the Belvedere Castle as a gift. That property is so big and the garden perspective so impressive that when Montesquieu has visited it, he said : "Austria is a fabulous country where the subjects are better accomodated than the monarchs."

Today, the Belvedere Castle is a Museum where we can also admire "Der Kuß" from Gustav Klimt. Canalleto has also painted a view on Vienna from the Belvedere we can see in the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna.

Timur, Genghis Khan, Babur/Akbar (Mughal emperors), Cyrus the Great, Darius (I or II?)

Easy: Peter the Great of Russia.

Along with being a drunkard and a womaniser (two of my favourite qualities in in a leader) he changed the play of the world introducting Russia to Europe.

Alexander the Great and Ceasar may not be the greatest, but are always the first to pop into my head.

Genghis Khan, Augustus, Darius I the Great, Charlemagne and Babur are five of the best you will ever encounter IMO.

Alexander the great
Ramesses
Gengis Khan
Napoleon
and there are alot more great ones

In a TV documentary i saw this:
1.Pirro of Epirus or epire
3.Hanibal
4.Napoleon
5.Great Alexander of the macedonians
6.Giengis Kahn
7.Skenderbeg
8.I can't remember

Originally posted by deo
In a TV documentary i saw this:
1.Pirro of Epirus or epire


mostly likely pyrrhus of epirus

Ghengis Khan
Attila the Hun
Alexander the Great

Frederic the Great of Prussia hasn´t been mentioned yet. He was able to win 3 wars against Austria. In the third Sileasian war, aka 7 years war, he fought with only little British help against Austria, Russia and France- and he was able to hold Silesia in the end. His victories like Leuthen are even today an example of his brilliance. He didn´t lead a country like Russia or Austria with masses of troops so he wasn´t able to conquer as big areas as Alexander but in realtion of his resources and his gainings and his enemies he is on the same level.

Adler

Fredrick Barbarossa was good.

Originally posted by Adler17
Frederic the Great of Prussia hasn´t been mentioned yet. He was able to win 3 wars against Austria. In the third Sileasian war, aka 7 years war, he fought with only little British help against Austria, Russia and France- and he was able to hold Silesia in the end. His victories like Leuthen are even today an example of his brilliance. He didn´t lead a country like Russia or Austria with masses of troops so he wasn´t able to conquer as big areas as Alexander but in realtion of his resources and his gainings and his enemies he is on the same level.

Adler

You'r right.
Only learders that have conquered many nations and lands are Great leaders.There are many great leaders that we dont know Like "Frederic the Great"

it depends on how one defines the "greatest leader" but Franklin Delano Roosevelt is one of the first that comes to mind.

several reasons: only US president to be elected to 4 terms, combated the Great Depression, had his New Deal legislation absolutely fly through both houses of Congress [no small feat by anyone's standards] and mobilized a nation during the greatest and most horrific war the planet has ever seen.

deo, Frederick is considered to be one of the Great Captains of history. When Napoleon was able to take Berlin after the catastrophy of Jena and Auerstedt in 1805 he stood at Frederick´s grave and said: "If you were alive I couldn´t stand here." If have a bit more time, perhaps I could then make a small biography about the last man the history gave the title the Great.

Adler

Yes he was a Great commander, but wasn't he a awful politician and diplomat who pissed off the big guys so the fought him?

Originally posted by storealex
Yes he was a Great commander, but wasn't he a awful politician and diplomat who pissed off the big guys so the fought him?
Who cares if he did if they were all defeated?

A great leader IMO also sets up their state in such a way that an average leader is all it takes to keep the good times going. By pissing off all his neighbours and with him dead, things were not going to go all that well for his state once he died.

I must second Frederick the Great. Not only a great leader, but also a great thinker and humanist.

I saw Babur and Ackbar earlier. I'll also second those. Further along in that area I'd nominate Abbas the Great from the Safavid dynasty. Moving to the Northeast we have Genghis Khan. That completes Asia for me.

In the United States, we have several Presidents that could be considered "great": Franklin Roosevelt, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, and perhaps James K. Polk come to mind immediately.

Chandra Gupata Marya and Asoka.

Originally posted by silver 2039
Chandra Gupata Marya

Interesting that you bring him up immediately after I post...

Originally posted by Mongoloid Cow
A great leader IMO also sets up their state in such a way that an average leader is all it takes to keep the good times going. By pissing off all his neighbours and with him dead, things were not going to go all that well for his state once he died.
A great leader is one who succeds where all others fail.

Freserick was the third child. However his elder brothers died as babies so he was the eldest. He was much more a thinker and poet than a soldier when he was young. His father was a soldier and very religious. So both had big troubles. Later he tried to flee but he and his firend were caught. His firend, Lt. von Katte, was arrested. The king wanted to have the death penalty for him. The military judges did not agree. Then he went to the Kammergericht in Berlin, a civil court. Again he was not successful. So he did something which was common for Europes monarchs but very rare in Prussia: He killed Katte. Frederic had to see the death. Then he became the soldier his father wanted, but not the religious man. He kept his abilities in art. When he was the throne successor he wrote the Antimacciavell to respond Machiavellis Il Principe. Then his father died and he became Prussian king. Now the people thought the German Spata would become an Athens- well partly they were right. But only partly.
Prussia had trouble with the emperor. He betrayed Prussia by giving territories to others which were promised to Prussia. Suddenly shortly after frederic became king the emperor died as well- without male heir. Although Frederic´s father supported Maria Thersia, the emperor´s daughter, Frederic did not. He also attacked Silesia. Prussia had some old claims on Silesia but they were nearly useless. Later he admitted he was young and only wanted the glory. Well he got the glory. He fought within a short time two wars with Austria- and won. He was called now the great. He thought from this point peace would rule for all. He spoke to many famous people of this time. Bach, Voltaire,... Prussia was a tolerant state in which Jews were tolerated. As well as the freedom of speech. In this country only Kant was possible- and other big German philosophers not so famous, like Moses Mendelssohn. Other young men later went to Prussia only because of this king. the Baron von und zum Stein. As well as Goethe.
But peace was not for long. Maria- Theresia wanted revenge and tried to ally with Sweden, Saxony, France and Russia. Only England and Hannover were Prussian allies. So in 1756 the 7 years war started because of a Prussian offensive. The Prussian sword might not have been the longest but the fastes. 7 years of war. Big victories and big defeats. He was nearly beaten when the Russian Czarina Elizabeth died. Her heir was a moron but a Prussian fan. He made peace and became a Prussian ally. But this alliance broke fast when his Wife Cathrine became the Czarina. The war however against her home country was not renewed. She stayed neutral. After a few more victories the peace ruled again. And Silesia was still Prussian.
Now he rebuilt Prussia. New laws to rpotect the civilians before the nobles were made, the potatoe introduced. And many other things.
He supported indirectly the USA in the revolution although being an ally of England. Benjamin Franklin met him a few yeras after the revolution and shortly before his death. Although being a republican he was very surprised by Frederic, positive surprised. Prussia and the US declared in a pact the human rights for the citizens of the other state.
But although he was old once again he went to the fields of glory. Bavaria should be annected by Austria. No big battle occured in this war. But in the end of this so calle potatoe war Bavaria was saved. That´s why the reformer von Stein came to Prussia.
In 1786 Frederic died. Hie heirs had little luck. In the battle of Jena and Auerstedt the Frederician army was beaten by the French. However the reformer modernized Prussia to beat finally the French and to end the way Frederic was not able to end: to make Prussia a modern state.
He wanted to be buried in his Palais Sans Soucis near Potsdam. But this was not until the 1990´s when he was buried with all military honours to find the last peace.
So he is one of the greatest leaders of all time.

Adler

It's more difficult to maintain an empire than to build one. Thats why I'm picking Pierre Trudeau. Also because he hasn't been mentioned yet.

Also, probably one of the most underrated US Presidents of all time - James Polk. Acquired California, Texas, and Oregon.

Alexander the Great is definately the best military leader of all time. Alexander would set goals and then would not quit until he accomplished his goals. For example- he chased Darius all over and finally got him. Alexander the Great was also good because he placed Persian leaders as military leaders in his army as well as some of his political leaders of lands he conquered.

Alexander also had the coolest horse- Beucephalus (I think thats how you spell it). Beucephalus was the all time fearless horse. He faced gigantic elephants, razor sharp spears and swords, and arrows. Alexander knew how to adapt to certain situations, his battle plans weren't 'narrow mindedly' constructed.

how about shaka?

Has everyone forgotten about Bismarck?

He militarily and diplomatically gave birth to modern day Germany.

Not my first pick, just someone you all might have forgotten about.

I myself would choose Alexander, Peter, or Frederick (all 'the Great')

Originally posted by Atlas14
Alexander the Great is definately the best military leader of all time. For example- he chased Darius all over and finally got him.
Alexander did not kill Darius. He was killed by one of his own viceroys, Bessus.

Originally posted by Atlas14
Alexander also had the coolest horse- Beucephalus (I think thats how you spell it).
Bucephalus


I am doing my term paper on Alexander the Great. ;)

Caesar
Napoleon
Frederick the Great
Ben Franklin
Ghandi
Saladin
Abraham
Jesus
Mohammed
Pope Gregory
Queen Victoria
Buddha
Genghis Khan
Ramses II
and that's my little list.

Do we talk about conquerors and generals or about statesmen. Bismarck I did not mention because he untied Germany but was not a conqueror (Alsace- Lothringia is a difficult theme). As well as Jesus or Ben Franklin.

Adler

a great leader doesn't have to be a conqueror

in fact it takes a greater leader to save his/her's country from internal and/or external threats, instead of simply conqueroring your neighbor

I only referred to deo´s post on the first page where he wanted a discussion about strategic leaders. You´re right BTW.

Adler

Originally posted by alex994
Richard the Lionheart,

He was rubbish from an English perspective.

Jesus Christ, infidels.

No the great Lord Shiva, Bhrama and Vishnu are the greates leaders. Hethans thy shall burn in the fires of hell with Lord Yama.

Originally posted by Kafka2
He was rubbish from an English perspective.

Yup, a fact conviniently forgotten by popular history all to often :D

Oh and my vote goes to either Malborough or Wellington military wise, with Wellington getting the edge slightly. In terms of guts and charisma it would be hard to beat Churchill. Statesmanship wise I'd go for either of Elizabeth I or Henry VII, both of whom set England back on track and stabalised the country at times of great strife.

Both Statesmen and Military leaders:

Churchill
Bismarck
Metternich

Hannibal
Napoleon
Alexander
Julius Caesar
Augustus
Frederick the Great
Saladin
Ghengis is Khan
Ramses II

Metternich might be new to the postings. He pretty much defined the European order from 1815 to the unification of Germany

Gustavus Adolphus has yet to get metion.

From an english POV militarily malborough, drake, nelson and wellington. Slim was excellent in ww2 as well transforming a beaten rabble.

Non militarily Elizabeth I.

Originally posted by Adler17
I only referred to deo´s post on the first page where he wanted a discussion about strategic leaders. You´re right BTW.

Adler

:lol: no that comment wasn't specifically directed at you I was just saying that to anybody that would choose a simple conqueror over a statesman as the Greatest Leaders of all time


Originally posted by silver 2039
No the great Lord Shiva, Bhrama and Vishnu are the greates leaders. Hethans thy shall burn in the fires of hell with Lord Yama.

I know your joking but hey silver are you a Hindu in real life, I find that religion fascinating

oh yeah and you have a typo in your sig. I'll give you a hint its the word thats almost exactly the same as my username ;)

I gave it a two hours, and I came up with this list :) :


LIke all of these lists, it's based on my sense of priority and knowledge:


1) Constantine the Great, Roman Emperor
2) Cyrus the Great, Persian Great King
3) Prophet Muhammed, Head of the Umma
4) Genghis Khan, Great Khan of the Mongols
5) Wu Ti, Han Emperor
6) Augustus, Roman Emperor
7) Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor and King of Spain
8) Ying Fu Su/Qin Hsi Huangdi, King/Emperor of the Qin
9) Peter the Great, Russian Emperor
10) Asoka, Mauryan Emperor

11) Frederick II Hohenstaufen, Holy Roman Emperor (king of Germany, Italy, Burgundy, Sicily and Jerusalem)
12) Vladimir Lenin, Soviet Leader
13) George Washington, American President
14) Taizong, T'ang Emperor
15) Heraclius, Roman Emperor
16) Alexander the Great, King of Macedon and Great King of Persia
17) Samudragupta, Gupta Emperor
18) Suleiman Kanuni, Ottoman Sultan
19) Ivan III, Grand Duke of Muscovy/Russia
20) Akbar, Mauryan Emperor

I'd like to see a worst leaders of all-time thread.

You mean like this...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87480

It could actually give a good healthy contrast to this thread...

Militar only: (chronological)

- pharaoh Thutmosis III
- king Cyrus I 'the Great' of Persia
- Epaminondas
- king Philippos II of Macedonia
- king Alexandros 'the Great'
- Hannibal Barqa
- P.C.Scipio 'Africanus'
- Judas Maccabaeus
- C.I.Caesar
- Costantinus I 'the Great' (never defeated in battle, so tell the sources)
- Belisarius
- king/emperor Charlemagne
- duke/king Guillaume 'le Conquerant' of Normandie
- Rodrigo Diaz 'El Cid Campeador'
- Salah-ed-Din
- king Richard 'CoeurDeLyon'
- Temujin 'Gengis Khan'
- knjaz' Alexandr Nevskij
- Jan Zizka (hussite bohemian leader)
- tzar Ivan III 'the Great'
- Gonzalo de Cordoba 'el Gran Capitàn'
- Babur & Akbar
- Hernan Cortés
- king Gustav Adolf II of Sweden
- king Jan Sobieski of Poland
- duke John Churchill of Malborough
- prince Eugenio di Savoia
- king Friedrich II of Prussia
- gen./consul/emperor Napoleon Bonaparte
- gen Horatius Nelson
- duke of Wellington
- Erwin Rommel
- G.Patton

too many, sorry (but I'm sure I forget someone... ;) )

@kmad:
Jesus wasn't an Arab, was Judean... Not so different race, but surely not the same... ;)
However Jesus' race isn't so important, like just He demonstrated ... ;)

Attila the Hun, Gengis Khan, Ramses II of Eygpt, Timur the Lame, etc were actually a bane to humankind. They amount of destruction they wrecked took some time to be rebuilt. Some countries are still recovering from the effects of the Mongol invasions. Ramses II was notorious slave driver.

Many of those may have been able to win battles however they were not able to instill much loyalty in the regimes and hence they usually quickly imploded in a dramatic death. Also some leaders like Hitler, Lenin and Stalin ruined their countries basically. The huge amount of deaths caused by their policies was definitely unwise (a superior leader could have modernized/improved the economy without resorted to those non-necessary tactics).

Peter the Great of Russia and Napoleon were not quite as brutal however still caused many problems (though they were effective at increasing efficiency in their countries). Peter the Great did not really destroy the power of the nobles in the long run which counts against him somewhat.

Jospeh II of Austria should perhaps be on the list of greatest leaders in history. Others include, Winston Churchill, George Washington, Lincoln, Charles Martel, Charles de Gaulle (for forming an effective and stable government), Haile Selassie perhaps also.