It is June 22nd 1941 and you Joseph Stalin have just received the first reports about an invasion of the Soviet Union.

Sounds familuar, well it is, if you ever played Red Front for Civ2.

Now here is the Conquests version of the WW2 Eastern front war! played as the Soviet side only.


http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ3/scenarios/GPW2.zip(57.66 MB)

* Pls note to delete music.txt from the redfront2 folder once you extract the zip file as this is in error.
* Latest patch file attached as redfront2map*.zip replace exisiting versions with files within 24/6/04

Development Notes

A. As much Historical accuracy re the russo-german war
B. Use of building and tech improvements to simulate events to guide the historical battle b/w both countries.
C. Human player to be on the serious defensive for the first 2 years, stale mate for 3rd and on the offensive for the 4th/5th year.
D. Tank/Plane units are expensive focusing on these too early and you will lose as inf units are the main unit type available until the ural factorys are up and running.
E. Player feedback to reveal what changes to be made to AI to simulate its offensive ie giving extra units auto builds buildings etc.
F. Russian tanks etc stronger ie att/defence but initially only green (1 or 2 hp) germans units 4 5 hp vets/elite.
G. Use of Graphos's Save Game editor to change unit stats and 2 types of terrain reflection winter/summer months.
G. Graphically interesting with a variety of decisons for the player to make off historical accuracy to see how it pans out.

make sure you read the GPW2readme.doc file in the zip download.

Note that the german units are vet/elite from their superior training/experience in the western war the previous years.

Russian units while numerically superior are conscripts or regulars at best.

Wow, that is a GREAT screenie. I can't wait to play! :cry: :goodjob:

-I cannot wait to put my hands on this wonder!!!

U can pick this mod up at CDGroup.org in the Civ3 forums with a updated fixed Biq. till he gets it posted here as well.

Originally posted by recon1591
U can pick this mod up at CDGroup.org in the Civ3 forums with a updated fixed Biq. till he gets it posted here as well.

- That one hasn't been updated yet but

the lastest is now available at civfanatics to download.

I saw this and was really excited as I have been working on a mod on the same subject and this one does a good job on a lot of things.

A couple quick notes:

1. If you don't have the music, you have to move or get rid of the music file under text or the game crashes.

2. I don't think ships should have lethal land bombardment. The German/Finnish navy was blasting helpless ground units off the face of the map right off the bat.

Originally posted by Klyden


1. If you don't have the music, you have to move or get rid of the music file under text or the game crashes.



Thanks I've made a note in the first post for people to delete the music.txt file in the redfront2 folder

-Got an error message while loading the scenario:


missing icon in "text\ pediaIcons.txt" TECH_DISTRICTS

Originally posted by Bombur
-Got an error message while loading the scenario:


missing icon in "text\ pediaIcons.txt" TECH_DISTRICTS

This would be b/c the files are in the wrong location, make sure you extract with folder names into the last conquest folder where the other *.biq scenarios are and their corresponding data directories

ie

Folder Conquests contains folders

/Age of Discovery
/Ancient Tresures
/redfront2 (this needs to be here once extracted)
and redfront*.biq file in root of conquests as well.

Originally posted by Colwyn
This would be b/c the files are in the wrong location, make sure you extract with folder names into the last conquest folder where the other *.biq scenarios are and their corresponding data directories

ie

Folder Conquests contains folders

/Age of Discovery
/Ancient Tresures
/redfront2 (this needs to be here once extracted)
and redfront*.biq file in root of conquests as well.


-It worked. Thank you. Your scenario is simply wonderful!

Let me first state that it is very easy to take the written word the wrong way and I intend no malice or hostile intent, but rather offer my findings and opinions in a constructive manor in the idea that this scenario (which has tremendous promise) becomes better. I will be playing a test game and will post results as I go along.

Preliminary work: German OOB.

Germany had 1 unit that started in Southern Finland. By agreement between the two governments, Southern Finland was considered a Finish theater and north and central Finland was considered a German theater. The Germans had little armor in Finland and certainly not in the south. Suggest dropping the motorized unit and tank and moving the rest to central/northern Finland.

FW190's were not committed to the eastern front until the fall of 42. The few that were available were used primarily in France and in defence of the Reich against the incursions of the British. A few served in the Med.

No German panzer/motorized forces were deployed with the 11th army in Rumania. These should be part of Army Group South. The 11th Army had a primarily defensive mission to open the campaign.

Rumanian troops should not be at the Vet/Elite level for the most part. They have had no combat experience and should be a mix of green, regulars, and a few vets. Also, Rumania has troops not only in Hungary, but also close to Lvov as well. This is not historical and the Hungarians would have never tolerated Rumanian troops in Hungary. A quick note here is that Bucharest should be the capital over Tmisoara for Rumania.

There are way too many Waffen SS units to start the game (I counted at least 13) along with too many Cav units (counted at least 5, including one in Norway). The Waffen SS had 4 front line combat units to start the campaign. A 3 regiment motorized infantry division was attached to each army group (German motorized infantry were normally 2 regiments during this period). In addition, LSSAH was a mech infantry unit attached to Army Group South. There was 1 Cav division attached to Army Group Center and it was withdrawn and disbanded early in the campaign.

On the Luftwaffe mix. There were something like 23 Stuka units and 11 Ju-88 units. Assuming that Ju-88's also represent HE-111's (they should) this is not representative of what the Germans had for available air power on the eastern front. According to the information I have, the Germans had approximately 300 Stukas and 775 medium bombers to open the campaign with. Considering that there is not a ME 110 unit (about 100 started the campaign), some fudging in Stuka numbers might be good (after the initial onslaught, ME 110 served more as a ground support plane rather than fighter).

I would not have Stuka units in the artic. Most of the Stuka units were either placed with Army Group Center or in the Med during this time period. Their range was simply too short to be effective in the Artic.

I did some checking on the German production wants and the AI wants to build AA units. I am guessing they want it for the most part because it is cheap, offers AA defence and is a 6 point defender over the current 3 point milita that most cities have. The other issue for the Germans is they have no oil to begin with and while Rumania does have extra, they would not trade it to me under any circumstances, so that means the Germans are really crippled on what they can build.

Some of the Rumanian infantry appear to be the same as the German 10-8-3's and the Rumanians had no infantry formations that were even close to German formations in that type of efficiency and quality.

*edit* Spelling > me

Game start:

Russian first turn. I sell off everything I can in the border cities to fatten up the bank account and do "scorched earth" to the advancing Axis. I go for Motorized Infantry on turn 1 and although it puts me at -335 econ to get it in one turn, I have 1826 in the bank after selling off stuff.

Axis destroy Kisniev and capture Bialystok, Petsamo, Kaunas, Kirovo, Vilinus, Brest-Litovsk, and Lvov. Some 88's attacked and looking at the stats I see why. Very offensive unit for an artillery piece and very little defense (18-2-1 I think). Might want to reconsider on that.

The German/Finish navy blow up 3 Russian troops with lethal land bombardment.

I notice the Civlopedia info is wrong on 45 and 76 AT guns along with 76 Arty. Shield costs on those are 40, 70, and 50 respectively.. not what the civlopedia entry says and the description was the same for everything. Also, what Stavka and Lenin's Tomb do is not descriped. Barracks say they put out Vet units, but they do not.

For Science, IL4 Bomber and Basic Rocketry show as being able to be build before their pre-req.

I decide to build workers to the east and 45mm AT guns closer to the front. I redeploy air force units to Kiev and Leningrad. The Baltic navy moves to concentrate in Leningrad and the Black Sea Fleet scoots to safety. I also try to quick build units near the front in cities that I think will be captured to further trash the cities down.

Turn 2: Finns Destroy Vilpuri and Kitela. Germans capture Riga. I go for Patriotism 1 turn at -571 with 1415 in the bank. I manage to kill a German infantry and tank unit in counter attacks and pull back in good order elsewhere. The Red army is taking heavy losses, but not much can be done at this point.

Turn 3: I go for Infantry Reinforcements when I find out I can't get the Siberians without them. Rumania destroys Odessa. Germans Capture Daugavpils and advance in strength in the Dneper bend and also around Kiev. The advance continues in the center with Germans showing up around Minsk. The German fleet continues to score on the Baltic coast against the Red Army. A Finn and several Germans advance south to Leningrad. I also lose my bomber out of Leningrad this turn, so that will hurt. The Germans assault Murmansk, and while it is holding so far, I have no way to reenforce it and figure it is a matter of time.

I launch another small counter attack against depleted German units and loose one of my T-34's but also finish off some German armor. German armor casualties have been noticeble and I have managed to kill 4 or 5 either defending or counter attacking. The Axis have been very agressive attacking even with units not at full health.

45 MM AT guns are starting to come into play and should hopefully slow things down. They are good cost effective units with 8 defense.

I am also working on looking at new areas to settle at in the east to build additional cities.

Turn 4: Germans launch a major bombing attack against Kiev and my fighters take heavy losses against the German bombers. I manage to give the Finns a bloody nose around Leningrad by killing a infantry unit and a mech unit. Also kill a depleted infantry unit next to Nikolayev.

Turn 5: The Finn navy heads west for some reason. Rumania destroys Nikolayev. 4 more Russian fighters die against the German bombers. I loose 2 more units due to naval bombardment. Getting annoying. A German BB unit shows up and I am wondering what exactly this is supposed to represent as Tripitz was not yet in operation and Bismark was sunk in May of 41. At any rate, it used it's 2 hex bombard range to shell an inland city, but fortunately missed. Germans Capture Tarlu. I get Infantry Reinforcements and go for Partisan's in 2 turns at -215 cash with 1598 in the bank. Germans launch a very heavy assault on Kiev and Minsk. They hold this turn, but will fall next. 13 tank units in the Kiev area with lots of infantry as well. This appears to be the main effort. Murmansk holds again thanks to random number generator although it is slowly being shelled to pieces by the Axis navy. I discover that 76mm artillery has no movement factor. The German infantry that advances from Finland next to Leningrad is first introduced to the Red Fleet and then promptly get run over by a factory fresh T34 that gets elite status out of it. With the other losses to the Finns, the threat to Leningrad from the North should be about over.

Turn 6. Kiev is destroyed. Glukhov, Minsk and Tallinn are all captured. I loose 5 units to naval bombardment. Enough of the lethal bombardment already. This is a major pita. Murmansk holds yet again and the northern Germans are about to be shot for incompetence. I launch a smallish counter attack in the Dneper bend and kill two depleted German tank units and the Finn T26 unit is destroyed by the Russian T26 unit. I also manage to sink a Finnish destroyer as well, but most of the Axis fleet is moving towards Leningrad. They cleaned out Tallinn and Narva of units.

The Germans continue with a heavy push east of Kiev and I am in serious trouble there. The Germans seem to be somewhat weaker in the north, but still strong enough to continue to stay on the attack.

Game notes:

I know lethal land bombardment has been mentioned before, but will mention again. It needs to go.

No German BB should be present and in fact, the Axis naval forces should be toned down a bit. Also, it should be known that the Russians had a large sub fleet based in Leningrad, but they were kept in check by mines until Finland withdrew from the war. The Russians had several battleships based in Leningrad and some in the Black Sea as well, yet they are not in the game.

The 76mm artillery unit needs to be made moble.

I know nothing can be done about razing the cities, so just mention it in passing for everyone elses benefit.

In the rear areas, my workers are becoming active and starting to put in improvements and I have built a couple of refugee units and have some city sites selected to get them going.

The time increment is not working. There is nothing to indicate what the date is.

The save games are indicated as "Comrade Hitler".

If its the 6th turn its Dec 1941 and time for the winter terrain and edit change to the german movements.

I'll look into some of the things you mentioned many are very good points and will tidy up the game i'll get back when I update the biq file in the next week or so.

I'm very interested to see at what point you are able to take the offensive, the time increment error you described is weird as can't duplicate it, can you post a saved file.

Great work and thanks for your feedback.

This looks awesome!

I think it will be a long time before it can be said that I am truely on the offensive. I have 3 T-34 units that are vet or better now and 1 T 26 that has manage to get to Vet and those are basically my counter attackers. The only thing I have been after is depleated units for the most part. They come out, hit and run away. The Russian infantry won't be doing anything at all soon and I have mainly concentrated on the 45MM AT guns as a cheap means of defense to try to slow the Germans down.

I am really concerned with the big push east of Kiev. There are a lot of pop centers there and I will likely loose them all. When the AI will decide to slow down and consolidate, I don't know. If nothing else, if it is truely December, then I have done better than historical.

Attached the save game file. If you have any questions, please let me know.

Where can you get the music?

Originally posted by Goldflash
Where can you get the music?

I've got it but some tunes are causing it to crash so I need to investigate further so for time being just delete the music.txt file so it will use the default Conquests one.

In the sceenshot there appears to be some trench like terrain. In the editor I found it to be called Stalin line but in the game it does show up. It appears to be a grassland and no trenches in site! This is also to oil refinaries and Factories appearing as grassland. Why? Anyone else have this problem? The Mills do appear though.

Great Scenario! :D Be sure to implement the suggested changes soon!

A minor note:
The included .txt says the following line:
Open the save game in the editor and change from 3 to 1 the MV rate for Romanian Inf and Whermarcht (early war)
The correct spelling is "Wehrmacht". Why is it that english people always seem to have trouble with this word? :p

In the sceenshot there appears to be some trench like terrain. In the editor I found it to be called Stalin line but in the game it does show up. It appears to be a grassland and no trenches in site! This is also to oil refinaries and Factories appearing as grassland. Why? Anyone else have this problem? The Mills do appear though.

Under preferences you must enable Show Food/Shield icons or simular and then they will appear!

Yay, you used my T26! :) I always knew that unit would find some use.

The scenario looks exelent by the way. I remember playing the original red front, I never got past 1942 cos I only had a pentium 90 but it was still an amazing scenario, I learnt loads about WWII.

Thanks I'm still wanting to get more feedback about how the game plays and what people were able to achieve year by year until 1945, ie I may need to make it easier/harder etc

Question does the stalin line do anything? Also I think the stukas should have lethal bombardment since they were dive bombers noted for their accuracy. Only the battelship should have lethal bombardment. Also the Maxim MG should not be immovible. I noticed my fighters almost never intercept the german bombers which is really bad for me.

Play report :by the 5th turn I have lost almost everything east of Moscow and Leningard. Almost no units left for the defense of moscow-lost everything in semolensk and Leningard will fall next turn as it was under siege and massive Luftwuffe, Kriegsnarine bombardment, Finnish assault and German attack for 2 turns now. Also why am I broke? I have to sell improvement every turn. The reason why the Germans were able to advance so fast in the Baltic area was because their naval wiped out everything. Everything above Leningard was taken by the Fins or Germans and in the south Sevespool is surrounded and almost everything west of Rostov is under German/Romanian control. This would be very historical if it wasn;t for the fact that I have no chance of winning now since I'm broke and have almost no units other than local mitila.

The stalin line gives a 25 defence bonus from what I recall, stuka's/il-2 don't have lethal bombardment but rather they have the flag that allows you to select which target to attack.

Don't understand why you are broke as if you adjust the science rate you should get a income?

The trick to the game is that you try to hold off the germans a little whilst developing defensive lines with tanks, inf and Anti tank guns.

Untill you develop a lot of scientific advances you are supposed to be pretty defensive for many years.

If you want to try, load the biq file and remove lethal bombardment for ships and try again.

interesting will try.

Play report turn 8: I lost Moscow, Leningrad and a couple other minor cities,only stalingrad left as a major city...meaning I'm SCREWED!! -click*- quit button*

I will edit the naval bombard and stuka. Also for some reason some Maus tanks that looked like giant boxes showed up with very powerful stats when I passed that baltic island if they got on the mainland that would be really bad.

Also is anyone else having problems where their fighters don't intercept the german bombers?

In the real war, leningrad, moscow and stalingrad were the three main objectives. Both sides realised that one could be lost to the germans, but more than that would be the end of the war.

I have already made mention that the lethal land bombardment needs to go. In the hands of a player, it is simply too deadly. Lethal sea is fine and should remain. (As in the ability to sink ships with air bombard).

From my experience, the trick early for the Russians is to have the mid belt cities build all the anti-tank guns you can. They have a defense of 8, which does cause the Germans some issues and are relatively cheap to pump out. You are also going to have to move stuff to Leningrad if you want to keep it. The other thing to work on is getting an armored reserve and counter punching with it, especially German armor if you can catch it depleted. Hit it and pull back out of harms way and let your units recover. The German infantry is very tough early, but it will take losses against your anti-tank guns. Kill it when you get a chance too, but the German tanks are what makes life nasty for you. Most of your production is center and south. Make sure you send troops north to help around the Leningrad area. Also, the Finns like to send a unit or two after Archaglesk, so make sure you send some units there too and that usually stops them from advancing further east.

As far as the air force goes, resign yourself to the fact that even if you have the fighters intercept the Germans, they are likely to get shot down. (I concentrated most of my fighters in a few places and after watching them loose 3 out of 4 times against German bombers in 1 turn, I did not have much left anyway).

Last tip is to gut cities as the Germans approach. Sell everything off you can and then also quick produce last ditch defenders to trash the population as well.

I disagree on Stalingrad being as important as Leningrad or Moscow. Capturing Leningrad would have allowed the German left to resume manuvering with the objective of attacking Moscow from the north west and would have also allowed the Finns to put more pressure on in the artic theater. Moscow speaks for itself in that the Russians would have fought to the last solder to protect it.. something the Germans should have exploited in 1942 instead of attacking in the one place that the Russians were willing to trade space for time.

Hey just a note that the timer should really be fixed because I don't know what month it is. Also make the Russian Artic theader stronger so they stand a chance because in real life murmansk never fell. I alos think there sould be a rail line connecting Moscow and Leningrad all the way to Mumansk since that railriad was what the germans were tring to cut in the war.

Hi there ...

i got the error msg : missing icon in "text\ pediaIcons.txt" TECH_Districts Too !!

everything is installed correctly, and the entry is in the pediaicons.txt, but the game tells me that its not there, no matter what i do !:(

ne1 a solution to this ?

thx in advance ...

HahnHolio

Nice screenshot.

Did the 88 get proper stats? They should have a very high defense with very low attack due to extremely poor mobility. Also be unbuildable to avoid the Ai stocking up on them only which is unrealistic considering they were excellent against armored vehicles and planes but not against infantry. As for lethal land bombard for artillery and perhaps for ships, I think its okay as long as its not too strong. Some battles were won with artillery like when the Germans took Tobruk they bombarded it so intensely that the British couldn't look up for even a moment and ended up surrendering without a fight. Only an AA gun inside it managed to take out a couple of German tanks - almost the only time the British ever used an AA gun against tanks. Anyways, this mod looks promising despite the tail of woe from Klyden. But hopefully all his advice is heeded and this should be a winner. How are the tanks? If you need more there are tons of really good tanks at cd group (http://cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/index.php) like panzer III, IV, KV-1, KV-2, T-34, T-26, also in Play the world folder.

This mod looks good. Please continue to upgrade it and let us know when its ready.

Only Battleships should have lethal ship bombard. Also I think Stukes should have them too. Also the game NEEDS THE TIMER!!!! I NEED TO KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS!! I've often noticed that the AI Fins and Romanians never capture only sack..thats why I have sweet revenege when I go on the offensive and burn all their citied ..muahaha.
Alos the game crashes when I build the flamerthrower guy.

the screenshot alone justifies the download of this massive file!
Can't wait to play!

Is it possible to win? I tryed everythign but in like the 7th or 8th turn the Germans already captured Moscow and Lenningrad. Little units are left. I agree that the lethal land bombardment for the ships needs to go. The only reason why they took leningrad is that all those ships just massacred all my units in leningrad. It's getting really annyoing that all my units placed near a coastal square get destroyed by enenmy ships.

Is it possible to win? I tryed everythign but in like the 7th or 8th turn the Germans already captured Moscow and Lenningrad. Little units are left. I agree that the lethal land bombardment for the ships needs to go.


Well i'm happy to say that no one has yet found a way to exploit the game to make it easy to win, from all accounts its the opposite which is what I had expected. I wanted the game to be hard and then tone it down a bit but from what I've heard it might have been too hard.

Over the next month I will make some changes, most that you have reccomended yourself.

I still would like to hear from people who have played further on into the game as around turn 8/10 you should have researched enough techs to have a stalemate situation with the germans where over time the urals get built up and start pumping out lots of units.

Please email me your saves so I can review them before making the changes.

I played it again. This time i finally got the germans to a stalemate :) Im not really sure if i can hold the lines much further though. Any tips on how to get the Urals up and running and pumping out units? Im at turn 9 Germans at the doorsteps at Leningrad, but it seems the deffences are holding up well. After they bommed it out with bombers and shelled it with destroyers they attacked with 2 tanks and i mannaged to kill both of them ! :) Well thats only two, but thats two less tanks fireing at my troops :) Still not sure if i can hold the line though. I got about 2 T-34s that i rushed productions from Moscow and Stalingrad. They are only a 3 turns away from reaching Leningrad. But can the great city last just 3 more turns? The world may never know. :confused: My email is not really working at this moment for some reason it wont send anything so i cant send any of my saved games :(

*Great mod i'll be looking foward to more updates* :D :spear:

-War-Time mobilization doesn't work out that well, which may have been your intent. I basically have to start over now (turn 5 or so) because I cannot build any factories, for instance. I can see how you are suppossed to fight a delaying action againt the Germans, but I don't see how you are suppossed to set up sufficent production to start churning out T-34's. I can halt the Nazi advance around its historical progress, but I just don't have any reserves left or any new factories coming on-line.

-Why are workers so expensive?

-Consider adding some observation towers to the interior of Russia, to represent small collective farms and the like. Just seems so empty, the way it is now.

-Some wonders seem kind of pointless, like the Gulag one. It takes long enough for a tank to reach the front lines, let alone a 2.2.1 infantryman. At least the Siberian infantry have two moves, and are fairly powerful for that matter.

-How are you suppossed to ever build some of the inprovements? I mean, 1000 shields for the tank factory, especially with workers costing three times as much.

-War-Time mobilization doesn't work out that well, which may have been your intent. I basically have to start over now (turn 5 or so) because I cannot build any factories, for instance. I can see how you are suppossed to fight a delaying action againt the Germans, but I don't see how you are suppossed to set up sufficent production to start churning out T-34's. I can halt the Nazi advance around its historical progress, but I just don't have any reserves left or any new factories coming on-line.

-Why are workers so expensive?

-Consider adding some observation towers to the interior of Russia, to represent small collective farms and the like. Just seems so empty, the way it is now.

-Some wonders seem kind of pointless, like the Gulag one. It takes long enough for a tank to reach the front lines, let alone a 2.2.1 infantryman. At least the Siberian infantry have two moves, and are fairly powerful for that matter.

-How are you suppossed to ever build some of the inprovements? I mean, 1000 shields for the tank factory, especially with workers costing three times as much.
- Re mv rates, remember to use trucks to transport inf units, artillery and heavy machine guns, thats what they are for.
- Gulag wonder is ok, pumps out lots of gulag units, i think there are 4-5 sites where they can come from. use trucks to bring to front.
- Only big cities are able to build most improvements/wonders. tank factories are supposed to be prohibitely expensive(not affordable) as they are hard to build and the existing ones were bought from the US anyway. Keep the ones you have already or move them to the urals with its wonder.
- 30 shields for a labor brigade isn't too expensive, it costs 40 for a inf units best way to get them is to rush buy.

I'm back. Well I got to force the germans to a statemate, but I can never , never hold the artic front. In real life the Russians did surprizingly well up there holding up until 1944 where the Russians got enough troops to crush the finns. I lose almost every Artic city by turn 4 or 5. I don't know If I can hold the lines further but, it is turn 11.
You might want to put more Russian Troops in additional defense lines after the border lines fall, that way you can earn more time (Those troops can't do anything more than die of coarse) and the AT guns should be able to move. Colwyn how do you fix the timer? It just saids Airfield .Also is it possible to be able to edit it so you can play the german side?

I guess already number three with the missing icon problem (missing icon in "text\ pediaIcons.txt" TECH_Districts). :( I tried everything suggested here, put it in the right folder and so on...

Any other suggestion what it might be? I'm really eager to play this one. Relly looks great... :)

Can someone respond to the timer problem...