So what was the day to day life under different communist governments?

Any info out there or links?

One could only assume it were bloody awful...naturally though, life under regimes such as Hitler's Germany have become most demonised.

It was not good, I'll tell you that.

One of my grandfathers is german, and he worked for some time as Secretary of Education of the Espírito Santo state, and was a very good friend of the governor. He used this firendship to help people from Eastern Europe, and particularly Eastern Germany, to get asylum here in Brazil. The people he helped were either diplomats or working for some communist company who had business with Brazil, and so we can assume that they were better off then the average citizen of their countries. Yet I talked to severall of them and they told real horror stories about the lack of freedom and generalised poverty of their countries.

If you want a first hand despcription, try asking Vrylakas, as he lived in communist Poland and has made some excellent posts regarding the conditions there.

I have many Russian friends, and they all agree that life was better under communism. Freedom is good, but not if freedom comes with poverty. They should have changed gradually like China, instead of in a instant.

I don't think one should over-demonize the communist system. For the ordinary citizen, life carried on pretty much like in most other countries, and people had their ordinary worries. The lack of freedom, risk of getting thrown into the Gulags for some obscure reason or the endless queing for everyday products was something you quickly wouldn't even notice as something unusual. The communist system built upon the ideology that the individual was a very small cog in a massively effective, powerful and great system. As long as you only thought of the problems of your own tiny cog you didn't even notice that the so called great system was rotten.

Most russian families had at least one relative killed by Stalin, so yes, they did notice how rotten the great system was.

And the many revolts in Eastern Europe against Moscow, always supressed with soviet brutality, are another exemple that people didn't simply "carry own with their normal lifes".

I don't want this to turn into a theological debate. I would like to know specifically what day to day life was. Like:

What did children learn in school?
What was the Soviet diet?
How did different cultures interact?
What did Soviets purchase?
What was family life like?

You know, simple day to day stuff...

Bright day
People can live through anything. When I listen to my paternal grandmother it is almost as WWII have been best time of world- she was fourteen when war started and twenty when it was over and met my grandfather in run of it. WWII were best years of her life, even with courteous wehrmacht officer. So many peole's memories are so skewed. But it wasn't so bad, in CSSR zero unemployment (even if you did nothing). Everybody had food, clothing, roof over head and most people had countryhouse or at least garden on outskirts of town, car possibly even sportscar. In summer you went to Bulgaria, or, Yugoslavia, or Romania (well not much choice). All in all it was 2nd world for reason.
May all your days be bright.

Originally posted by covok48
I don't want this to turn into a theological debate. I would like to know specifically what day to day life was. Like:

What did children learn in school?
What was the Soviet diet?
How did different cultures interact?
What did Soviets purchase?
What was family life like?

You know, simple day to day stuff...
So do you want to know Soviet or Central and East European (which does not exist)?

I for one would like to hear both!:cool:

Well, bear in mind that I do not really come from normal family,
Okay after was there was lack of many things, but it was not too critical. For long time there were problems getting meat, but that was because it got so affordable. There were problems to get some exotic things, but when they were there there was overabundance of them. For example: once my uncle's French girlfriend arrived from Paris with whole lot of bananas. She came to my paternal grandparents apartment and... bananas! Kilos and kilos of them, over all there was about 150kg of bananas.
Well travel was restricted, but it was more matter of bureocracy than anything else, anyone if he waited, and waited and waited and w... and could prove he have enough money for trip could travel.
Children in school learnt normal stuff, except for humanistic studies, there cards were heavily stacked in favor of regime. The shortcoming was that some textbooks had the "wrong" information in them. So it was on teachers to tell kids to blacken it, of course they had to go over it few (12) times with them, to be sure it was all gone.
Cultures in Czechoslovakia interected within themselves and with others quite well, the enemies were Russians afterall. My father both wives so far were Slovaks, mainly due to simple fact that he lived in Slovakia.
Famiy life- ? what is typical family life? There is nothing like that.
People bought cars, radios, Tv's, fridges, washing mashines, country houses though, as with so many other things you had to regiter and wait.
Diet- normal food of not rich, greasy, somewhat bland and highly nutritious.
Waiting- that cloud be helped (and still can)if you knew people. Not corruption but simple friendly realtionships and not really cheating just or getting better sevices just more attentive.
Overall if you worked hard, your partner worked hard, you had friends who worked hard and had kids who worked hard you lived comfortably enough and worked too hard to really bother yourself with things like free press or speech.

My mother has told me some rich stories (she lived in Poland for the first 23 years of her life), but I have nowhere near enough time to recall all of them.

However, Polish communism was very weak and does not compare at all to what was going on in the Soviet Union. Her stories of visits to the USSR are usually the best, since, over there, many people actually believed in the communist ideals.

Being part Polish and Ukrainian, my grandmother's family was treated very harshly by the Soviets. As far as I know, one (or her only) sister was shipped off to Siberia and killed. I am almost certain that she was not the only member of the family whose life was taken by the Stalinist government.

"Luckily" (sarcasm) for my grandmother, her tenure in Soviet-occupied territory ended when the Nazis captured her and made her a slave for three years.

I'm just damned grateful I wasn't born into it....even if it was on the verge of dying off by 1985.

Originally posted by luiz
Most russian families had at least one relative killed by Stalin, so yes, they did notice how rotten the great system was.

And the many revolts in Eastern Europe against Moscow, always supressed with soviet brutality, are another exemple that people didn't simply "carry own with their normal lifes".

There was a big difference between Stalin's Soviet and post-war Soviet. My post was meant to illustrate the post-war period, when things had become somewhat better.

However, your point that people were much more critical to communism outside Soviet is very valid.

From what I could make out life varied by country in the Soviet block. East Germany was the best and Romania was the worst. I was speaking to a east german workmate and he said life wasn't that bad. He enjoyed the communist youth movement as he liked the physical side of things, camping sports etc. Everyone was poor by western standards but generally had clothes, food and a roof over there heads- massively subsidised state housing.

I know a lot of the Central Asian republics like Uzbekistan, Tajikistan (especially, mainly due to the Taliban incursions), Mongolia and Kyrgyzstan are far worse off (although Mongolia and Kyrgyzstan are improving albeit slowly, even the organised crime syndicates find life considerably worse).

Bright day; today little on USSR
Life in USSR proper was different from most other places, fortunately my father's girlfriend was awarded, as a part of a group of youth organization, with a propaganda/work trip to USSR. But due to Czech/Soviet paperwork she and her friends found themsleves in real soviet village, a place where they never should have been. When she later showed pictures she took with camera to her grandfather who accidentaly was there as Legionnary, he simply said "Yeah, I see. It have not changed at all." I am afraid I cannot give proper account, as I heard story only once and I am now in States, but it all striked as living in Sub-Saharan impoverished village minus guerilla and plus lot of paperwork.

Originally posted by covok48
What did children learn in school?
What was the Soviet diet?
How did different cultures interact?
What did Soviets purchase?
What was family life like?

You know, simple day to day stuff...

Only from Soviet Union or also from other ex-communist countries ( like Romania for ex. ;) ) ?

Regards

Originally posted by luiz:
Most russian families had at least one relative killed by Stalin, so yes, they did notice how rotten the great system was.

And the many revolts in Eastern Europe against Moscow, always supressed with soviet brutality, are another exemple that people didn't simply "carry own with their normal lifes".


Yes, but be sure not to confuse post-Stalin Soviet rule in Russia as Stalinism. Stalin’s reign in Russia was, in some ways, even more terrible than that of Hitler’s in Germany.

Post-Stalinist Russia was quite different; as time passed, it functioned more according to western European standards and people led relatively normal lives. The inability to vote out the Soviets was restrictive but not necessarily repressive.

As in any regime: as long as you don’t mess around, you’ll probably be fine. This is true too of the ‘Red Tzars.’

Aside from that, the main limitations were an economy that never recovered from Stalinist economic reforms and an inevitable cultural disconnectedness as a result of isolationist policies.

Standard of education was quite high (just ask any big-city dweller from the Soviet era and you will see), social system was effective at keeping the poor from starvation and provided public housing—something that is usually associated with good states—and industry was not necessarily ‘run by the government’ as many in the west believe; firms usually functioned according to internal decisions but had to function according to regulatory legislation that was strictly enforced by the state (the military industry was the most controlled, obviously, which caused major economic degradation due to the hawkish nature of the determining policies).

Originally posted by yoshi
Yes, but be sure not to confuse post-Stalin Soviet rule in Russia as Stalinism. Stalin’s reign in Russia was, in some ways, even more terrible than that of Hitler’s in Germany.

Post-Stalinist Russia was quite different; as time passed, it functioned more according to western European standards and people led relatively normal lives. The inability to vote out the Soviets was restrictive but not necessarily repressive.

As in any regime: as long as you don’t mess around, you’ll probably be fine. This is true too of the ‘Red Tzars.’

Aside from that, the main limitations were an economy that never recovered from Stalinist economic reforms and an inevitable cultural disconnectedness as a result of isolationist policies.

Standard of education was quite high (just ask any big-city dweller from the Soviet era and you will see), social system was effective at keeping the poor from starvation and provided public housing—something that is usually associated with good states—and industry was not necessarily ‘run by the government’ as many in the west believe; firms usually functioned according to internal decisions but had to function according to regulatory legislation that was strictly enforced by the state (the military industry was the most controlled, obviously, which caused major economic degradation due to the hawkish nature of the determining policies).

Things improved in the USSR after Kruschevs reforms. However then came the stalinist Brejniev and screwed everything again, by supressing with great brutality all kinds of protests, and finally by commiting the stupidity of invading Afghanisan.

Yes, Afghanistan placed a huge strain on the military and was among the biggest bluders of the Soviet era.

Perhaps, had the poilitbeareau paid a little more attention to some of those protestors, they might have been better prepared when collapse became inevitable.


Just to be clear on my comment concerning Stalin's reforms:

Although the expansion of heavy industry took place at an astounding rate during Stalin's reign, it should be noted that this would probably have taken place in any case given the nature of Russian economic evolution. Stalin was in fact an impediment to development in many areas. It should also be noted that the nature of developement was based on heavy industry--an ideal form for the maximum exploitation of forced labour, which was used extensively during Stalin's reign. Due to the enourmous amount of resources, land and manpower that could be exploited, this brutish system allowed for rapid development from a highly agrarian-based economy to and industrial economy. Nevertheless, towards the end of Stalin's reign, it did more harm than good overall.
Needless to say, the lives of ordinary Russians were not much improved by such conditions--they went from working on farms to working, frequently under guard, in factories under horrendous conditions.

I totaly agree with you.

Stalin only improved the life one person - himself.

He was very intelligent, but used his intelect only on his behalf. And he didn't mind killing millions to get his goals achieved.

There are several people here at CFC who could answer this well from experience; a couple (Gladi, Ioan) have already breached I see.

Your question is very broad and open-ended; life under communism varied from country to country, and differed over time. 1980s Hungary was a very mild and almost pleasant country compared to 1980s Poland, or worse yet Romania. My wife is a few years younger than me but she has very few memories of communism in Poland, and her sisters - who are in their low 20s today - have almost no memory at all of those years. In fact, she's somewhat nostalgic for those years because she experienced them as a child, at a time when her parents both made decent livings as scientists for the very heavily-subisidized coal mines of southwestern Poland. I am a bit older, and have different memories....

There was a certain normality to life in all eras but that's only because humans are very adaptive creatures and can survive in astonishing environments, even in environments as hostile to normal human activities like communism. It also depends of course what life was like in the countries in question before communism; it is no coincidence that the greatest resistance to communism came from those countries accustomed to higher living standards before their incorporation into the Soviet orbit.

In my many, many - far too many - posts on life in the communist countries here and abouts I have always emphasized the most negative aspects of those days, but of course people are people and most managed somehow to lead relatively normal lives regardless. That still doesn't change the fact though that communism, as imposed by the USSR, was a very radically different way of life for all the countries Moscow ruled and while people learned to adapt in many ways they still spent an inordinate amount of time circumventing obstacles put forth by the communists to daily life and living. I was just writing about this recently, actually, as decades of people learning how to make ends meet by circumventing and undermining communist rules and authority are manifesting today, a decade+ after the death of communism, in the form of crime gangs and mafias.

I don't know if the Search function is currently allowed or not but if so then I suggest you do a search on threads with "communism" in the title and you'll get a trove of old threads from many who have lived in communist states and give vivid accounts of their experiences.

I love more than anything the political humor which thrived in the communist days, so I'll leave with an old joke:

Q: What would happen if someone established a communist regime in the Sahara?

A: Within a decade they'd have to import sand.

:D ... :lol:

[EDIT: It's the joke I'm laughing at not the comment.]

Note it is a very broad and open question because a) there are no right or wrong answers b) whether it be personal reflection or research, any input is a-ok c) presentation gives different outlooks on the subject.

My only rule is that it doesn't become a philosophical debate on communism vs. capitalism

Originally posted by Vrylakas
Your question is very broad and open-ended; life under communism varied from country to country, and differed over time.


One historian talks about the "1001 comunisms in the World" - I perfectfully agree with him ... :)


It also depends of course what life was like in the countries in question before communism; it is no coincidence that the greatest resistance to communism came from those countries accustomed to higher living standards before their incorporation into the Soviet orbit.


I have to contradict you here - Romania was in 1945 a poor country ( like today, unfortunatelly :( ), but still is the last one which had somekind of guerilla in mountains until in 1957 ...
And - let's see outside the Europe - Afganistan ... ;)


I was just writing about this recently, actually, as decades of people learning how to make ends meet by circumventing and undermining communist rules and authority are manifesting today, a decade+ after the death of communism, in the form of crime gangs and mafias.


And not only in such "radical" form ... fiscal evasion is ( still ) very high in most of ex-communist countries ... :rolleyes:


Q: What would happen if someone established a communist regime in the Sahara?

A: Within a decade they'd have to import sand.

I like another one : ;)

To a political "debate" the deputy sent from Bucharest said :
- Comrades !! Capitalism is at the edge of hole ( a big one ... don't know the english word :cry: ) !! But - never forget !! - comunism was and is always one step ahead !!
:D

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would post some myself, let this be Humor and Joles... and I could find any translatable:(

BTW: I was three when communism fell, but I do listen to my elders, they have so much to say.

I'd say the answer to this question depends on (1) which country you consider, (2) in which time period and (3) what aspect of everyday life you interest you.
Countries reacted in a different way, based on many factors, including:
- their history (for example the traditional anti-Russian sentiments in Poland),
- their economic development (f.e. the Czech lands had developed manufacturing industry that had to be "demolished" to open the resources for the Soviet-type heavy industry),
- their ethnocultural characteristics (Bulgarians did not see the SU in the same way as Hungarians did for example)
etc etc.
These factors affected the everyday life, in general people were more stressed in countries that were more resistant.

As for the time period, the Stalinist dictartorships were the worse in every country, basically no money were spent on infrastructure or any improvement of the standard of living. Basic things like food were scarce and the everyday life was extremely regulated, including school textbooks, community events, mandatory aspects of behavior (like going to rallies, offering present for the great leader's birthday etc.)
From the 1960s to the 1980s almost all countries tried to catch up with the standard of living. Life became somewhat better (compared to the previous period and not to the West), though with considerable differences. Life in countries like Hungary or Yugoslavia was far better than in Romania for example. East Germany put great emphasis on providing certain products of everyday life, but only if people fully complied with the political leadership. (If my experienced colleagues provided a joke, let me put one also here: two dogs meet at the East German - Polish border. The Polish dog says "how good is your situation, you can eat all what you want and you're never hungry" The East German dog answers: "yes, I can eat what I want, but there's no way I'm allowed to bark!" :)

As for the different aspect of life: employment was full, the state created jobs even if there was no need for that. People who "accepted" the political order could feel themselves relatively secure. Social mobility was significant, societies were much less solidified than in the Western European counterparts. Although the level of services was low and scarcity was a regular experience, you could expect to have a job, get the basic stuff, get your kids to school, get free healthcare etc. Again, the quality was really low, but for a long time (due to the lack of information and the fact that international travel was strongly discouraged) people had no base of comparison. Since most products were heavily subsidized, everything was dirt cheap.
Socialism was very egalitarian (not counting the leaders of course), so people were not encouraged to get "luxury" items to express their higher social status - and these items were not produced anyway for the masses. If you could get something from the West, like jeans, or some liquor, you became the big guy.
But political activity was strongly regulated, any diversion had its consequences (in the 1950s: jail or deportation camps; in the 1960s-1970s for example the fact that your kid was not allowed to go to college).
In short: life was easy to understand, everything was black or white. If you complied you were rewardes. If you not, you were punished.
No wonder that most people cannot deal with the complexity of a modern society in contemporary Eastern Europe, and still looks for those ideas that offer easy solutions, let them be exclusivist nationalism or simply turning into a criminal.

I'm a little surprised that nobody here mentioned probably the most visible aspect of life during communist regime ... :confused: - existance of "political beaurocrats".

This category of Party-employers, which had power, no necessary "on paper", but on daily life to control and watch activity of other citizens, to organize periodical "meetings" where they act like little gods :mad: and so on. This was probably the most hated category in ex-communist countries, even their standar of living wasn't so high as actual propaganda say or the "ordinary" citizens had ( the Party want to keep a "proletarian" profile ;) - it's leaders owns almost nothing but they have acces while on leadership to some "special facilities", like service cars, Party's hotels and so on ) ... and this was also the case in the times when life in communism was prosperous - as in Romania in '70's.

If there is interes on this aspect I will say more about this. :rolleyes:

Regards

i havent read all the posts in here, but i'd like to contribute.
i lived in Moscow, USSR, from the age of 0 to 10 yo.
its 1980 to 1991 so some might not consider my having lived under "communism" as some people see it (as in under stalin). plus i was a kid, so its hard to say wheather i noticed all the bad stuff going on or not.

as kids in a huge city, my sister and i could go anywhere in teh whole city, (between the metro and busses) and no one in my whole family ever worried that we would be kidnapped or killed or raped or anything.
i dont ever remember thinking "i'm hungry and there's nothing to eat", all i remember is the joy of finding out that hte local store had hotdogs that day, and that my dad had gotten some, and we'd be having hotdogs (it'd take a mirracle dish, to get that sort of excitement from me about any food now that i'm in the US).

while i do remember times when a friend couldnt get a toy (or a new bike) or something because his parents coudlnt aford it (if it happened to me i blocked it, but my family was relatively well off so its actualy unlikely), I know that there was not a single time when any kids would tease any other kids because their parents couldnt afford/find something.

the ppl who died under stalins rule made the ultimate sacrafice, to make the soviet union a great an powerfull nation and to greatly stragthen communism. ther deaths made the soveit union second strongest industral nation in the wolrd next to the usa.

thay had to die, and thay died for the beatter good.

Warned, trolling. - XIII

the ppl who died under stalins rule made the ultimate sacrafice, to make the soviet union a great an powerfull nation and to greatly stragthen communism. ther deaths made the soveit union second strongest industral nation in the wolrd next to the usa.

thay had to die, and thay died for the beatter good.

You're sooo lucky because the rules of this forum forbidden explicit injuries !! :mad: :mad:

Vietcong, you stand teetering at the summit of crass ignorance.

Vietcong, you stand teetering at the summit of crass ignorance.

That is his trademark.

I'd say however that he well-entrenched at the summit of crass ignorance, not simply teetering.

And he can stay there. Pls move beyond his post - don't feed the troll.