just watched the movie conspiracy, based on the minutes of the wannsee conference. it was a fascinating view on a terrible subject--hitlers final solution. for those who don't know what it was about, a quick overview.

on january 20, 1942 15 members of the german goverment meet at wannsee, germany.

reinhard heydrich--reich security main office
adolf eichman--heydrich's aide
wilhelm stuckart--ministry of interior
martin luther--foreign office
roand freisber--ministry of justice
friedrich kritzinger--reich chancellery
erich neumann--goering's 4 year plan
heinrich muller--gestapo
otto hoffman--ss
karl schongarth--ss
rudolf lange--ss
gerhard klopfer--party chancellery (bormann)
buhler--office of governor general
alfred meyer--reich minstry for occupied eastern territories
georg leibbrandt--ditto

the leader of the conference heydrich showed a document signed by h. goering giving him authority to carry out the" final solution". The aim of the "final solution" was to " remove jews from every sphere of german life" and " remove jews from the living space of the german people". charts were produced showing the breakdown of the jewish population of europe--around 11 million.

mass transit of the jewish population east was to start immediately. they were to be placed in harsh labor gangs to weed out the weak. the suviviors were to be sent to the new camps being built. several methods of "relocation"( termination) were discussed, the camp at chelmno was using gas, belzec used carbon monoxide trucks, auschultz used zyklon b gas, ect... some of these camps had the capacity of up to 25,000 jews a day. they predicited the total elimination of the jewish population in just over a year.

the majority of the conference was spent dicussing just what made a person a jew. persons of 1/2 jewish blood were jewish and would be terminated ( stuckart argues for sterilization) ( hoffman argues to give them the choice of termination or sterilization) persons of 1/4 blood were german as long as they "looked" german.they went into more detail on children of marriages. all mixed marriages were to be annulled. 30% of the jewish population in german was over 65 years old and many were WWI veterens and medal winners. they were to be put into out age homes.

minutes of the meeting were issued by eichmann to each person and then destroyed--execpt for luther who did not destroy his and was found in berlin in 1947.

now this is fascinating ( in a bad way) that these people spent so much time and energy on their hate. the nuremburg laws on what is a jew or not a jew by blood and marriage is pages on pages long--very detailed. at one point, when they are arguing over a minor point, klopfer asks if they are all lawyers, the way they are splitting hairs--13 out of 15 answer yes!! in fact 8 of the 13 have phd's. these are not barbarians or ignorant people dicussing the fate of 11 million people, yet they can so cold bloodly discuss this with actually very little passion, cold logic. they outlined the destruction of an entire race in 94 minutes.

on top of this most of them escaped at nuremburg

at the end kritzinger, who was bullied into agrement, tells heydrich a story; a little boy grows up in a house where his dad beats both the mother and son. the son grows up and leaves home. when his mother dies he goes to the funneral but cannot cry. later his dad dies and he crys and crys, why? because his whole life was built around his hatred and now he had nothing to live for. his message for heydrich--what will you do when all the jews are gone?

I think too much would be conjecture with a subject like this.

You are right, it is refreshing to see Nazis portrayed merely as people, many of whom were very intelligent. It beats the silliness of the big dumb hate-monger with a cute little inferiority complex, or the obsessively "evil" and diabolical Nazi.

Ive always found Conspiracy to be a fascinating movie. I havent seen it for a good while but the things that you mentioned were the things that really hit me as well.

Keneth Branagh (sp?) was chilling as Heydrich and Colin Firth was frightening as Stuckart. Quite a departure from his usual role as romantic leads. His one speech, occuring after being accused of being a Jewish sympathizer, proudly and angrily detailing his personal participation in the passge of the Nuremberg laws was intense.

Powerful performances all around in this one.

I saw this right before reading Fatherland, an alt history Nazis won WWII book, about an SS Investigator in the 60s who uncovers the holocaust while investigating the murders of Buhler, Stuckart and Luther by the Gestapo. The Gestapo was trying to elimante all remaining "loose ends" from the Wansee conference.

Heydrich met justice when a couple of Czech freedom fighters blew him from the face of the earth (unfortunately, nazi revenge was terrible). I heard Eichmann faced a trial in Israel, but don't know much more about that- what happened to the others?

martin luther--foreign office

You're kidding, right?

Martin Luther- I thought he was put into a concentration camp, but survived the war.

In 1945 Luther was sent to Sachsenhausen concentration camp for scheming against his boss, Joachim von Ribbentrop.

Luther was the nazi point man in pressuring allied states such as Romania, Italy and Vichy France to agree to the transport of thier Jewish populations.

Originally posted by pawpaw
the majority of the conference was spent dicussing just what made a person a jew. persons of 1/2 jewish blood were jewish and would be terminated ( hoffman argues to give them the choice of termination or sterilization)



My, how nice of him. I'll bet he thought he was doing them a favor and being a humanitarian too.

Originally posted by Stefan Haertel
Heydrich met justice when a couple of Czech freedom fighters blew him from the face of the earth (unfortunately, nazi revenge was terrible). I heard Eichmann faced a trial in Israel, but don't know much more about that- what happened to the others?


heydrich--assassinated,1942
eichmann-- hung 1961
stuckart--accused of war crimes, 4 years in prison
luther--concetraction camp
freisber--killed in allied bombing
kritzinger--accused of war crimes, lack of evidence
neumann--accused of war crimes, lack of evidence
muller--unknown
hoffmam--accused of war crimes, 6 years
schongarth--executed by british
lange-- killed in action
klopfer--accused of war crimes, lack of evidence
buhler--exicuted by poles for crimes against hunmanity
meyer--suicide
leibbrandt--accused of war crimes, lack of evidence

Originally posted by joycem10

Colin Firth was frightening as Stuckart. His one speech, occuring after being accused of being a Jewish sympathizer, proudly and angrily detailing his personal participation in the passge of the Nuremberg laws was intense.


is that when he was argueing with klopfer ( martin bormanns flunky ) and he cut klopfer down to size and klopfer goes " i'll remember you " and stuckart replies " you should, i'm rather well known " :lol: :lol:

Is it true btw that Heydriech died in part because the SS refused to allow him to be treated by local doctors and he died whislt awaiting a german one to be flown in? I always heard a rumour stating that, but never found out if it was true.

Originally posted by privatehudson
Is it true btw that Heydriech died in part because the SS refused to allow him to be treated by local doctors and he died whislt awaiting a german one to be flown in? I always heard a rumour stating that, but never found out if it was true.

it is said that heydrich was a victim of biological warfare , he was in o.k. condition 7 days after the attack when he suddenly went to the worst and died. the aptospy should no major infection or missed wounds.

a british biological warfare scienctist paul fildes was quoted as saying " i had a hand in heydrichs death " and " heydrich was the first notch on my pistol"

Originally posted by pawpaw
is that when he was argueing with klopfer ( martin bormanns flunky ) and he cut klopfer down to size and klopfer goes " i'll remember you " and stuckart replies " you should, i'm rather well known " :lol: :lol:

yeah, thats exactly the scene im talking about. its spooky because you want to laugh at thier exchange until you remember what they are discussing.

I remember watching that ages ago when it first came out. Chilling to say the least.

Keneth Branagh was immense in it, I was greatly impressed by his portrayal.

I went on a school trip to Berlin a few years ago (was amazing, Berlin rocks) and we all went to Wannsee and we walked about. Just walking about and reading about it all certainly sends a cold shiver down your spine.

In my opinion it was divine providense that we beat the nazis.

I went on a school trip to Berlin a few years ago (was amazing, Berlin rocks)

It sure does! I think it is sadening that the nazis chose Wannsee for their conference. In my childhood, Wannsee was always a place I loved for the beach (I was once bitten by a swan there :D). I still like to go there, as it's better than any public bath, but I hardly ever visit Berlin, so that's a bit hard :(

In my opinion it was divine providense that we beat the nazis.

I don't think so. I'm not sure which weighed heavier, Allied strength or nazi weakness, but it was certainly nothing supernatural.